Taking a stab at leading my own SG, well above my comfortable play skills. I was, I think, the weakest link in Own9, a noble attempt at Always War Deity on small continents. I would like to try it again, if anyone would care to join in. Civ to be decided. Roster totally empty. Open to suggestions as to how to start. Anyone up to joining in the Monkey Madness (R)?

I'll be watching this. Im not Deity Material.;) Good Luck.:goodjob:

I'm not deity material either but, I could give it a shot, I've played and lasted pretty long before I got pissed off.

Is this in Play the World?

I'd like to make this one C3C, since AW can really use the help of the much improved armies in Conquests.

And I'm definitely not Deity material myself. All the more reason for a monkey crew to make the attempt! :crazyeye:

Okay then count me out. Can't do conquests

Will be lurking and watching, unfortunately I don't have conquests so I can't take part :(

@tupac That's too bad. :( We gotta get a law passed that gets CivComplete for Mac down to Australia. Could really use you on this one.

If you need another "not-deity" monkey brain. You can have me. I recently started some AWD attempts and some went quite far, but I could not pull off a win, yet.

I need improving my warring skills, this SG sounds like it might provide the opportunity ;)

Am willing to slug it out with other masochists :hammer2:

Dont consider myself comfortable at diety but have wins under my belt - always war is new to me so I might need pointing out the obvious :crazyeye:

That's two on on board for monkey madness! :woohoo: I'd say let's wait another day or two, then roll some starts and get some turns played by this weekend, at least.

To clarify for anyone else who'd like to try it:

Version: C3C 1.22
Level: Deity
World: Small Continents, should be old (5 million), not sure if wet is worth it
Civ: Not yet decided
Variant: Always War! :hammer:

Maybe, put me on backup, and conquests is better as you mentioned the thing about armies.:thumbsup:

@tupac That's too bad.:( We gotta get a law passed that gets CivComplete for Mac down to Australia. Could really use you on this one.

Im no better than any other player on this forum (and worse than plenty!), however as a lurker I'll still chip in with my $0.02 everynow and then if you'd like

Well, I step down from my immortal heavens for a while, and play with the peasants.

Please peasants, don't express your diligence with a capitol g, my name is gozpel...or if we get closer -> goz. So many people don't understand the virtue of a name, so for your understanding, my name is gozpel or just goz. If you are my friend. If you're not, goz is quite nice.

If I get my wants of this crazy game, I start.

Unfortunately, my life is fulfilled already, so someone has to make a good start.

Are there any peasants out there, to make a good start?

At least food bonus.

Roster to date:

goz - will lead off once we get a start decided on
Andronicus - on deck
SimpleMonkey -
markh -

At this point Ansar may well have decided that it's worth joining the monkey circus. :crazyeye: Anybody else feel like taking a swing, it's fine by me. There's room.

Some starts, anyone? I'm about to head off for school, so won't be rolling for a while. Possible civs are Romans (yeah, I know, goz hates 'em, but ya gotta love the 3/3 legion), Chinese (great traits but possibly and long wait until the uu shows up), or perhaps another run with the Persians (why not?). I'm not ruling anybody else out, except maybe Spain. :lol:

I'll post some starts after school.:) What civ are we?

I'll post some starts after school.:) What civ are we?

This is the sort of Intelligence we're looking for...


Byz! I never played Byz on a hard level.

Posting from my laptop while I'm at school. (They think I'm taking notes. :rotfl: )

I never thought of using Byzantines for this one, but ya know, it's so crazy it just might work. I miss not having agri for fast growth, but a small map can be short on rivers anyway. The starting techs are good ... no, they're great starting techs. And dromons rule the waves!

Would 80% water be just too cheesy?

gozpel, ya talked me into it. Byz it is. Everyone invited to roll starts and we'll pick and choose.

I can roll some starts after work in a few hours.

Byz sounds cool. This nice lady has some fire.:devil:

So far my "level" is Emporer, so it would be something of a challenge for me o play deity. So I would like to join. By the looks of this, this is a deity training mission. ;) Considering most here need it.

Consider yourself joined, c_h! Yep, I'm considering this as deity training the hard way. :hammer2:

Current roster is:

goz - will lead off once we get a start decided on
Andronicus - on deck
SimpleMonkey -
markh -
classical hero -

with room left for one or two more reckless monkeys.

Am willing to slug it out with other masochists :hammer2:

Dont consider myself comfortable at diety but have wins under my belt - always war is new to me so I might need pointing out the obvious :crazyeye:
AW pointers for masochists:
- Techs are tough to get by, so a TGL build or steal has to be planned early
- Always keep expanding, yet don't conquer for a while. Advancing in territory needs careful planning and (relatively) huge SOD's. Settle behind rivers and on hills ASAP, in their face and with walls, so as to force them to charge up your 100% defensive bonus.
- Kill counts are crucial and you need to pick your best fight, every fight. Catapults are your best friends for a long while. Artilleries are game-breaking.
- 1st army is a 2-spear pillage peacekeeper force. Period. Subsequent ones either go pillage as well or go attack. Home forces need to be kept high in supply and good in quality, with catapults and archers for off and def bombards. Attack forces are usually best kept simple: armies and fast movers, so that healing never is a problem. A stranded injured foot force that just lost an attack is a dead sitting duck SOD.
- Pillage is awesome when you combine armies and explorers for the job. Make sure explorers finish the turn under the army, they have 6 "total" moves, pillageing takes 3.
- Barbs often are a necessary PITA for the economy, you just need those 25g to keep up. Picking non-EXP opponents can be necessary however :p
- Keep every town defended, you never know when you'll need it. Having fast movers inland at home is a generally good idea for quick response to surprise sneaks.

If we are Byzantins, then we want lots of water for our Dromons to maximize efficiency.:evil:

Ok rolled some starts. I sorted the ones out that had no settlers or no workers.

Here is no.2

and here is no. 3

Thank you MarkH, I cant seem to roll decent map, the RNG doesent like me in the map department.:sad:

I like #2 and #3.:thumbsup:

Rolled a few as well and these is my best efforts
- small continents, diety, no barbs, normal temp, 5 bill, Byzantines :eek:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey04.SAV

I like the idea of being able to build AC
That fish in lake is 3 food in despot
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey05.SAV

AW newbie Q here - is a river a must given all req self research following initial contacts?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey06.SAV

I gotta say that I like Andronicus's second roll best. It doesn't have the food bonus that his third and markh's second do, but it does have a certain lux that can be a lifesaver. And we're only two techs away from Mathematics. My vote is for that one.

No 1
There is a fish 2 SE of starting pos but only 2 food in despot so no visible food bonus. On plus side on river with 3BGs visible

No 2
Wheat on grass, some BGs, a lux and hills for production
Not bad at all

No 3
No despot food bonus (plains wine equiv BG), has lux and 2 rivers visible making for a number of duct-less cities. And of course lots of wine :D

No 4
Similar story with wines, but lack of rivers makes this poor (it was my first roll :rolleyes: )

No 5
OK I've already said why I like it - SM appears to like AC too.
After game forest chop and irrigation we have 5fpt - SF material, if only the AI would leave us alone long enough :p
Oh yeah, and that ivory is a readily avail lux as well, only real downside is no river.

No 6
Well markh gave 3 options so I thought I would too and besides we hadnt seen a cow yet. Whilst this does have river and trees for chops, unless there is another food bonus lurking in the fog then this is not as strong a start


Having said all above I vote for no 5.
However, I believe our chances of success or otherwise will be more heavily influenced by the nature of the land we cant see and by the situation of the AI.

I gotta say that I like Andronicus's second roll best. It doesn't have the food bonus that his third and markh's second do, but it does have a certain lux that can be a lifesaver. And we're only two techs away from Mathematics. My vote is for that one.

Actually it is the only one of the saves to have a potential 5fpt from visible tiles
Working igame, 3 x mBG and fish in lake gives excess of 5fpt and 7spt (incl centre tile). Add forest 2 NW for growth and voila - your ridgee didge 4 turn SF :D

edit - I know its only wishful thinking - no way a deity AI will allow this luxury in AW situation

Actually it is the only one of the saves to have a potential 5fpt from visible tiles
Working igame, 3 x mBG and fish in lake gives excess of 5fpt and 7spt (incl centre tile). Add forest 2 NW for growth and voila - your ridgee didge 4 turn SF :D

edit - I know its only wishful thinking - no way a deity AI will allow this luxury in AW situation

Doh! :cringe: I was looking at single tiles and not adding up the total food production. I'd say by all means that's the start. We can run the SF as soon as we get pottery, I suppose, and crank out units till then. I'd get a curragh out there pretty soon to get everyone in on the party.

BTW, I'd like to play by the most recent modifications of Handy's AW rules, as I've touched them up. They are as follows:


Handy's AW RULES (AS MODIFIED BY A MONKEY)
No using , F4, F10, F11 or any other way to find out about civs. You may use CivAssist or other programs to manage your play, but ignore or turn off the alerts about other civs. We only know what we can see on the map.
Do not accept envoys.
We can't use the V victory panels.
No initial trade - declare war immediately.
Only way to investigate a civ is with a spy planted with that civ.

You may never trade when you first meet with a civilization. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 20 turns for the first turnset (30 if nothing really happens) and then 10 after that.

Hope these are agreeable to all.

Any more votes or rolls, or shall goz procede whenever he gets up on the other side of the world (from some of us, at least :lol:).

... or shall goz procede whenever he gets up on the other side of the world (from some of us, at least :lol:).

Hang on, I thought you were from the other side of the world :crazyeye:

re AW rules - sound OK by me - just not sure what you mean by the V victory panels - what information are we avoiding?
Also if we're not supposed to know our oponents we havnt met does that mean we close our eyes when whoever tells us the leading countries in the world?

re SF in option 5
perhaps we should consider another variant :mischief: - farmers gambit - starting city can build no military, Byzantines are well suited to this - Theadora can just flap her eyelashes at those barbarian Mongol hordes. :lol:

seriously I cant see the AI leaving us alone to get granary anytime soon, and until the game forest chop the only food bonus tile is the lakes fish - great for commerce, but no shields for military. Just a thought

I suppose the victory panels aren't such a big deal. To be honest, I cheated a bit in the last AWD SG (Own 9) and passed on info that I got from CivAssist. I suppose the History of the World pop-ups are no-big deal either. Ignore them or not. We can also draw conclusions from the wonder pop-ups, I suppose. (Like hearing that Shaka had started GLib in 1910BC in the last game. :crazyeye: )

Correct my understanding of SF management, but AFAIK, it don't work without the granary. And we're not starting with Pottery. Do we make spears and some curraugh till it comes in? :hmm:

Well do we want to meet people? :p

I'd say dont build curraghs until we know who is on our continent. Then start the exploration.:)

Correct my understanding of SF management, but AFAIK, it don't work without the granary. And we're not starting with Pottery. Do we make spears and some curraugh till it comes in? :hmm:
Correct - need pottery for granary for SF
I doubt that is best way to go - if we are unable to do any trading for techs
My suggestion
1) WC for archers
2) Masonary, so we can then go to
3) maths for Zeus and for cats
that leaves
4) pottery, then beeline to monarchy?

Not being able to trade makes a big diff I think

Huge diff. I'd go with your suggested tech tree. As long as they ain't not much more ivory on our small world, we still have a good shot at SoZ. If not, many rock throwers will have to do. MM is also a priority, I think. Maybe pick that up before going for Monarchy.

Let's see if gozpel decides to go off in another direction entirely.

@ Ansar -- the advantage to early contacts is to get all other civs on a war footing ASAP. Slows down their tech pace, which helps us. Besides, if they're across the ocean, they're not going to be a problem for a while.

For everyone, I'd agree with pretty much all of BeF's AW tips, posted above. He and I differ on the utility of barbs, but that's about it.

I hope we can do as well as the ultimate Byz game, Theodora's Excellent AW Sid Adventure. Some strategies in there we can use, perhaps.

I have a few favourites, I like cows especially. :) But to get a freebee like ivory, who can resist that? Add a (at least) 6 -turn settler factory and we have it.

Is it too cheesy though?

I do love the cow and would've played that one myself. But we're a team and if we want a bonus, I don't mind the AC spot.

I won't stress a granary though, that's not my style. 3-4 settlers before a granary is my way and since I start, that's how it's happens. Pout as much as you want, you'll see the result later. But remember, 3 or 4 settlers is the max before we build that granary.

I'm going to play this in some 12-14 hrs from this post and I would like you all to say something. Hopefully intelligent. :lol:

Is it too cheesy though?


If this one turns out to be too easy we can do a more difficult one next time. :)

On the SF-granary-matter I think we have to see how fast we are paid a visit. I never played a small map, but on deity the AIs have 2 settlers and 8 starting units ? We need some units first to survive the first wave of the AI as if we have a neighbour we will not have too much time.

I won't stress a granary though, that's not my style. 3-4 settlers before a granary is my way and since I start, that's how it's happens. Pout as much as you want, you'll see the result later. But remember, 3 or 4 settlers is the max before we build that granary.


I dont think we will have the time to build a granary before we meet an AI civ - then the race will be on to get enough units before the horde arrives

Getting SoZ is no guarntee of win but would dramatically increase the odds
I've no objection to the cow option 'though and would be my second choice although the wheat option is well balanced with lux, food bonus and hills for later production. Not so keen on other 3 - I think we should take any breaks going our way particuarly with the strict AW rules SM has invoked ;)

Heh. Why do this the easy way? :crazyeye:

I'd like a nice step by step of what goz does with this first turnset. If we can get 3-4 settlers in place before the hordes arrive, then we may have pretty good odds.

Go to it, goz.

I like the Ivory start too. It is always good to have a lux when starting on hard levels.

Ok, I start this shortly and it seems like we all like ivory. :)

Let's just hope there are no enemies nextdoors, so we can have a couple of quiet turnsets.

I played 6 turns so far and a russian scout found us already. :gripe:

I'll continue anyways, but I need to know if we can trade before declaring? They have Pottery and we have Alphabet, maybe we should just declare right away and ignore trading?

You're the leader SM, you decide. :)

Russia is a Alphabet wannabe so they go for Alphabet first, so I would say trade while you still have Alphabet and Catherine doesent, well, if its in the rules, though, I dont think that Handy's rules allow that.:scan:

The revised Handy rules say no trading before war. Grr. I would have loved to have gotten Pottery out of Catherine's chubby little hands before laying a smackdown on her. Still, I'm gonna say go with the rules we've got.

Looking back on Handy 24, sorta the grandfather of this one, they lived with the no trades rule and did pretty well. Heh.

Pull the trigger, gozpel. :hammer:

Hey, at least it isn't Germany.

I played 6 turns so far and a russian scout found us already. :gripe:


Hmm,
Russia- scientific, expansionist. Starting techs BW and pottery
That means we can expect a horde of warriors and spears - at least we have a little while before archers come :p
6 turns means 12 tiles if scout came direct, poss only 5-6 tiles away. We will see the Russian army within next 10 turns - could be real soon
Batten down those hatches (? whip a spear)

My guess is that Fat Catherine is going to expend all he warriors (i.e. pretty much her entire military) in a single assault that it'll take her 10 turns to put together. She may in the meantime research Warrior code, but she may not. If we survive it'll be a bit before we see a significant second wave.

Well this is Deity, Catherine wont bother building any units , just send her given units that Deity gave her. So...yea, probably a SoD of Warriors and Spears.:twitch:

Constantinople founded on the spot -> warrior.

Max research on WC, no reason to waste turns on Writing etc and we need military stuff asap.

Worker to road the ivory.

3800BC - Ivory hooked up, worker to BG.

3700BC - Russian scout shows up.

3600BC - Con warrior -> spear.

Worker finished roading BG, mine.

3200BC - Russian spear shows up and I declare. We can forget that granary for a while I guess. :)

3300BC - Mine done. The spear is going for the ivory, block it with warrior. Our spear is due next turn, lux up to 10% for a turn.

3200BC - 3 warrior and spear are to attack Con next turn.

3150BC - 2 warriors suicide against our spear, promotes it to vet.

We learn BW -> Masonry. We want pults before anything else. Of course I like horses/swords, but catapults and archers are a good compbination early.

3100BC - Another warrior dies against our spear and promotes him to elite.

Ivory is irrigated, send worker to chop deer-forest towards settler. We can work the ivory for 2 turns until Con grows, Masonry in 12t atm.

Con spear -> warrior.

After this it's quiet, but look out for those spears that will pillage if they have a chance.

Red dot would be my first choice. Due to the early appearance of the russians, I couldn't squeeze out that early settler I was hoping for.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM_3000bc.jpg

I'd agree with red dot and then perhaps West Turquoise Dot. If it's bordering fresh water, then it's possible that it could build SoZ. We'd have Masonry for a prebuild and Math not so far after that. (Hey, I can dream, can't I?) Red dot has better production potential, but not the growth potential.

Great starting set, goz! I knew Fat Cathy's first wave wan't gonna be trouble. Are we agreeing on a settler as soon as Con pops its next caveman?

Current roster is:

goz - started our first war in 3200BC and fought it with stone knives and bearskins
Andronicus - up!
SimpleMonkey - on deck
markh -
classical hero -

with room left for one or two more reckless monkeys.

Red dot has better production potential, but not the growth potential.

It can borrow the irrigated deer now and again later on.

It can borrow the irrigated deer now and again later on.

:hmm: True. On the other hand, it's going to be a long time before we build ducts anywhere. I've build the SoZ in a pop 6 city, but not on Deity.

Why would you need the ducts? Size 6 cities with walls are the same defense.;) Or is it for unit suppport?

Unit support is always a good thing. But I was mainly indulging in my obsession with building the SoZ in this game. I know no wonder is worth skewing the game, but AC are da bomb. And it doesn't look like there's going to be iron in our immediate neighborhood.

A city stuck at pop 6 is limited in the number of shields it can produce, that's all.

Silly me, I forgot about shield count.:hammer2: About the iron, thats why we got ivory isnt it?;)

Got it ....... :D

Played 10 turns and the big news is we have a leader :D .
Of course we cant build an army until we get 4 towns - currently have 2.
We are very thin on military

Turnset
Pre-turn - switch Con warror -> settler (we need second town soon to support more military

2950BC
Con -> size 4 - lux to 10

2900BC
Play musical chairs with pillaging spears
IT
eSp d rWar (1-0)
Con settler (sped by chop)-> archer

2850BC
worker -> road game
Lux back to 0

2800BC
settler arrives red dot

2750
Adrianopole founded at red dot -> starts spear
IT


2710BC
worker irr game

2670BC
zzzz

2630BC
more troops arrive
IT
eSp d vWar (2-0) -> WE GET A LEADER :dance:
eSp d rWar (3-0)

2590BC
Sci to 90 - masonary in 2
IT
rSp d vWar (4-0)
Con builds archer -> archer (could be walls or rax?)

2550BC
Units still have movement points. I would fortify archer as we have good defence (eSp and archer adds free defensive shot). I think worker should go to SW of Con - the only safe spot avail (we lack enough units to defend towns, tile and worker)

Roster
goz - started our first war in 3200BC and fought it with stone knives and bearskins
Andronicus - survived the second wave and pulled a leader out of the hat
SimpleMonkey - UP
markh - on deck
classical hero -

A leader already ? How nice.:clap:

A leader in the first two out of four fights. I love it! :woohoo:

I'm pretty swamped with RL stuff right now -- the first I'll be able to get to this will be Monday morning (EST) -- around midnight or in the wee hours of the AM in Adelaide (adjust for other parts of Australia). If markh wants to swap and grab it before then, I'm agreeable.

I'd say go for Math now that we're about to pop Masonry. Then it's Pottery and MapMaking, I think. I agree with suggested moves. If it's possible to play bait and switch with Fat Cathy's spears in order to get our worker on a BG tile, I'd say do it. Otherwise he goes SW of Con, just like the man said.

Oh yeah, and as soon as we lay down our fourth city, that that leader's turning into a two-spear army to go trash Fat Cathy's territory. :hammer:

Good job, Andronicus. :)

Only thing I want to say, I left it on a warrior for the pillage risk, I better be clearer next time. But then getting an early leader...I shut up now. :lol:

I think we rather go for horses and iron after Maths, we've only met one civ so far and we need to know where the resources are.

My timelog is misleading, I wrote declare on turn 3200bc, it was actually 3700bc already, when we met the scout.

Only thing I want to say, I left it on a warrior for the pillage risk, I better be clearer next time.
Yes we need more warriors for preventing pillaging - not too late to switch Adri to warrior. Currently warrior in Adri only cos no other unit could reach it to defend a turn or 2 ago. Havnt seen Cathy with archers yet, they cant be far away - we will need more units
I think we rather go for horses and iron after Maths, we've only met one civ so far and we need to know where the resources are.


I cant see any tiles that could have iron, so IW will not be useful until we can expand a bit. Horses would be good followed by pottery, then we could beeline for monarchy

Very nice job! Yes, a pillaging army sounds like a great idea, but, what about a archer army?:p

Lets not get over-excited by the leader (yes I was excited too)
How many turns till we can get 4 towns? - remember we need the military to defend them first, we are already very thin for 2 towns. I suspect it will not be until well after we have researched maths and have cats to fight our way towards those future city sites. Meanwhile that leader is good for nothing (except rushing rax - much better done with a short-rush). We still have to survive and prosper to be able to use that leader later (and to one day use that ivory ;) .
In AW I suspect there is high probability we would have got leader by time we have 4 towns - its just it occurred early so we know having it is a certainty.
The other thing to consider is the lucky rng we have had so far ...

Yep, so far RNG has been good to us. All hail the mighty RNG, that it continue to favor our endeavors. :worship:

I'm still pondering our research tree. Horses maybe before Pottery, 'cuz it's not impossible that there may be some nearby. I'd still do Pottery -> MapMaking after that. Our UU is a beautiful thing after all. IW is a good investment as well, but for a while it may only be good for us to know where to pillage in Russian territory.

Speaking of which ... I'm also starting to think that Ansar has a good point. If we don't see any Russian swords show up by the time we get our fourth city, then an archer army will tear up anything that Fat Cathy has to throw at us. It may make more sense to make that instead of a spear pillager and then send it over with some cats to burn her cities directly, rather than to pillage. Worth considering.

Well, since it is continents, getting MM could be useful, but probably go for Mathematics after MM?:cool:

probably go for Mathematics after MM?
No - maths must be next IMO, we need cats

A leader before the fourth city?!?! :dubious: This is going to be fun one to follow!

@SimpleMonkey: :thumbsup:

@gozpel: :salute:

@Team: Good luck!

Thanks scout! All lurker comments and ... um ... unusual strategic suggestions are welcome here! :goodjob:

Thanks scout! All lurker comments and ... um ... unusual strategic suggestions are welcome here! :goodjob:Okay.. here you go: Andronicus has a good point on Math and Catapults. Note that gozpel says "horses and iron after maths"... Whoever follows gozpel... lemme know if you want me to dig up my "cliff's notes" on skirmishing. ;) gozpel has a tendency to leave teammates in a "paratrooper's paradise". (not at all a bad thing...) I shall be following this one with interest...and you all have my very best wishes for a fun slugfest. :hammer:

gozpel has a tendency to leave teammates in a "paratrooper's paradise". (not at all a bad thing...)

I'd like to see the notes on that one. I have some guesses, but I'd like clarification, plz. :confused:

I'd like to see the notes on that one. I have some guesses, but I'd like clarification, plz. :confused:Paratrooper's Paradise: You can "attack in any direction". In other words... you're surrounded. Unless you're on a coastal tile. In that instance... at least someone besides the AI are at your back. :D As for skirmishing... plenty of examples... even some in the game you joined. Fast units; hit and retreat to the safety of a city...

Okay with the swap, SM. Got it.

0) 2550BC : looks fine
move the worker SW of Con
empty Adri to bait the AI

IBT : our rng luck goes down
a vet Russian warrior is pushed by drinking his Vodka and kills our elite fortified spear in Con, Why does this always happen in my turns ? [pissed]
Luckily the fortified archer kills the second Russian warrior, otherwise the game would have been over
Masonry comes in -> math

1) 2510BC : move the spear from game to Con, another warrior will attack next turn. Cath seems to be seriously interested in Con
change con to a spear instead of an archer
change Adri to a warrior next turn instead of a spear in 11
with trembling hands I hit enter

IBT : uh, Catherine just shuffles units, I think spears heading for our Ivory
Adri : warrior -> spear

2) 2470BC : fortify a spear on our ivory

IBT : the Russian spears go back as they have no chance to pillage

3) 2430BC : fortify a warrior on the Ivory and fortify the spear in Con

IBT : nothing

4) 2390BC : nothing much to do

IBT : the Russian spear-killer moves back in
Con : spear -> archer

5) 2350BC : nada

IBT : the spear-killer has used his luck and is killed by our spear

6) 2310BC : zzzzz

IBT : first Russian archer appears

7) 2270BC : zzzzz

IBT : The Russian archer joins his fellow warrior in front of Con

8) 2230BC : nada

IBT : both Russian units suicide at Con, promoting one spear to veteran status
Con : archer -> rax

9) 2190BC : no Russian units in view any more, so relaxing turn

IBT : Cath wants to talk, but offers no Vodka, so no thanks

10) 2150BC : I leave it as it is, the worker can still be moved. I would move N to mine the BG for Con

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey01_2150_BC.SAV

Solid set, markh! With rax in Con, we should be able to pump out enough vet units to go on offense soon. I'm looking to get a couple of settlers in my set and an actual army.

My guess is that Cathy is spent for the moment and is going to be building archers for a bit and will be sending them at us piecemeal. This is favorable for us.

Got it. Will play either tonight or (more likely) tomorrow AM.

I wonder whether we could put our 3rd town west of Con so Cathy continues her attack on Con (walls would be good v archers if not already up). This would mean as soon as our 4th town is settled (towards Cathy and hence becoming the new focus) we could build our army and provide security. If this is the case our worker could road tile west of ivory to connect with 3rd town

@markh - sorry for using up all the rng luck :blush: That was a near thing. 2 successful archer attacks on Con would not be good right now.

Maybe I do not praise the rng enough.:worship:

Walls are not up in Con, but it is a little more secure. There are two spears and two archers in con, so we could attack any approaching archers and do not have to rely on defense that much.
Next city west seems to be a good idea. Everything else is towards Russia and needs good defense and infra for reinforcement. Their spears went NE.

Walls in the capital doesent help I think, because its already a city, and not a town. And because the capital is always at least a city, that means walls are useless in Constantinople except against barbarians.:)

I wouldn't bother with walls in Con. If things get so bad that our capital is getting smacked, we have more problems than walls would solve. I suspect we have a bit of breathing room here to build up. Must go on offense as soon as we can. I'm thinking of the Russian Polar Expedition game where everything was gambled on an all or nothing assault on the neighboring English. Of course, that team had the luxury of taking a peace treaty once they reached their intermediate goals, i.e. sacking London and taking techs for peace.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards settling at East Turquoise Dot rather than west with our next settler. All those unused bonus grasslands look very tempting. And I have my doubts that the water that's just visible next to West Turquoise Dot is fresh water. But I'll go with whatever the team as a whole thinks is best.

Preflight check All looks well. markh has driven off the Russian invaders. For now. Our military consists of two regular warriors, two regular archers, and two spears, one of whom (the pride of our armed forces) is actually a veteran.

Oh yeah, and a leader. :goodjob:

Since things are quiet at the moment I rouse a spear and an archer from snoozing in the capital and send them north and west to scout out the territory. Our worker heads off to an unmined bg to get to work. I rename him Albert.

Micromanage Adrianople to pull in some more gold, and Math drops to 12 turns.

Hit enter.

IBT Two veteran Russian archers show up. What, you were maybe expecting Santa?

2110BC Yeah, it's just two archers, but it's not like we have a lot of units to throw around, and there's no high ground around here. I move our expeditionary force back into Con, move the warrior to protect our worker, and await developments. Micromanaging was beyond the powers of a simple monkey. Maths goes back up to 16 turns.

IBT Drunk Russian archers move in on Con.

2070BC A Byzantine sniper takes down one of the Russians. (1-0) Await developments.

IBT Another drunk Russian shows up to replace his comrade.

2030BC Pick off the one who was outside Con. (2-0) Shift a spear over to cover the wounded archer who did the deed.

IBT Spear does his duty with honor (3-0).

1990BC Fortify troops in place to heal. I'd still like to send an expedition north.

IBT :sleep:

1950BC :sleep:

IBT Our rax completes. Time to build some vet archers.

1910BC Expeditionary force is healed. Send them north to explore.

IBT One reg Russian spear and a vet archer come to call.

1870BC Fortune favors the bold. I fortify our expeditionary force in place and await developments.

IBT Russian archer gets lucky with our fortified spear :sad: (3-1). Spear heads towards our ivory. He will not live so long.

1830BC Our reg archer avenges his comrade (4-1), and finds himself with an enemy spear and archer on either side of him :eek: . Move spear to cover ivory.

IBT Our scouting archer is attacked by the archer and spear ... kills both and promotes right up to elite! :dance: (6-1) Russian spear decides that things do not look so friendly for him outside Con and he turns back. Either that, or he wants a piece of our killer archer. Another Russian archer and a warrior shows up.

1790BC Move wounded elite archer back towards home and send an archer west to explore a little.

IBT Russians shuffle troops and that's about it. Their spear could have taken a shot at our elite hero, but even his dim Russian mind grasps the wisdom of not messing with an angry Byz.

1750BCKeep our hero heading home. Explore in the west and discover that we do have hills nearby. Move Albert to road the woods between us and a potential future city site. A warrior will provide cover.

And that's it for this turnset.

We've made some progress. Killed more Russians with only one loss. Math is now due in 4 running at -1gpt. I'm sure a wiser head than mine could micromanage us to a profit. Here's the world as it now appears, with my suggestions for future city sites. That's fresh water, I'm pretty sure, just north of blue dot #1.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1750BC.jpg

The roster is now:

goz - on deck
Andronicus - survived the second wave and pulled a leader out of the hat
markh - played tough defense and kept us alive
SimpleMonkey - was favored by rng gods :worship: and explored some more of our world
classical hero - UP

And here's the <<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey01_1750_BC.SAV).

Hopefully that water is fresh, 99% sure its fresh.:D

I'm 99.9% sure it's fresh. Looks like another little pond next to the seashore.

BTW, the roster is still open for another reckless monkey or two. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.

Preturn: I put Constantinople onto Settler.

IBT. The Russian move closer to us.

Turn 1. Nothing happened.

IBT. They moce again.

Turn 2. I managed to kill an archer and a warrior that were near our Capital.

IBT. Nothing

Turn 3. I lose an archer and kill a Russian spear.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 4. Not much.

IBT. More Russian arive.

Turn 5. I discover Maths. I managed to get 7 gold from the last turn. We build a settler.

IBT. We kill two Archers and Spain builds the colossus.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/5053/colossus7nx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 6. I build Caesarea on spot one.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/9947/caesarea2ak.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 7. Nothing.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 8. Nothing.

IBT. Ditto.

Turn 9. I build two archers, which make up for the two I lost to kill an Spear.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 10. Our captial's culture grows. We will have the wheel in five turns.

Now here is a city placement map that I thiwe should do in the next few turns. I would do the red first and then the blue. The red is safer since the Russians are coming from the North.
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3713/cityplacement8bw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

More progress! :goodjob:

I'll have to think some more about the suggested city placements. As we're seafaring, I'd like as many shore-hugging cities as possible. I'd also like use to use whatever freshwater we can find (which so far is the little lakes up north and that's it). And we might do well to move into the hills in the west, both because it doesn't seem so crowded right now, and because the magic ore might be hiding there.

That said, Red Dot might not be bad if it turns out to be on the coast. I'd also probably place another city north and west of the current Blue Dot, right on the edge of the great blackness , hugging the lake. That would leave room for another city on the grasslands between where the Russian troops are right now, taking advantage of all the bg there. Hey, and why not setting up shop in the hills in the west too, possibly on the hill on the edge of our visible territory? :crazyeye:

Other priorities are going to be getting a few more workers made. Albert can't do it all himself.

Oh, and are we planning on building SoZ in Con, or in Adrianople? The timing for that build is going to matter a lot, since we don't want to shut down a productive city, but we definitely want to build that puppy and not get beat out.

Other thoughts, most likely completely contradicting what I've just said, are very welcome. :lol:

Good job everybody!

The roster is now:

goz - UP!
Andronicus - [EDIT] on deck
markh - played tough defense and kept us alive
SimpleMonkey - was favored by rng gods :worship: and explored some more of our world
classical hero - kept up the Russian slaughter and got us our third city!

:bump: gozpel -- you have this one?

As long as where the SoZ is built, there is a barracks, I dont think it matters...

@Ansar -- I agree, though I'll often hurry to build SoZ in a productive city that doesn't happen to have a rax yet, then make that the first build after SoZ completes. Just one regular AC doesn't matter that much.

BTW, there's still a slot open in the roster, if you're interested. Heh. :D

I have it.

Pre-turn - Swap Con (renamed it) to settler in 2, we need that army.

1450BC - Inca completes the Pyramids.

Con settler -> spear
Caesarea archer -> barracks

Send settler to my E dot.

1425BC - We defend against an archer in Caesarea. More ruskies shows up.

Vet archer 1/4 kills reg archer.

Worker to chop forest near Caesarea.

1400BC - Hittites finish the Oracle.

Nicaea founded -> walls.

We have an army, load 2 reg archers and it goes 2/6 :eek: killing a spear.

1375BC - Spear defends against archer in Nicaea.

Adrianople spear -> worker.

Load 1/4 archer in army.

1350BC - Con spear -> spear.

1325BC - Russian archers kill spear and warrior in Caesarea. Elite archer and army kill spear and 2 archers.

We learn the Wheel -> IW. No horses in sight.

Adrianople worker -> barracks.

1250BC - First enemy horseman shows up, kill it and an archer with army. Elite archer kills another archer.

Adrianople will be a good place for SoZ, the barracks will be built in a few turns and if we can improve the tiles around there, it won't take too long.

Dots something like this?:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM-1250BC.jpg

@gozpel: I like the way those two northern dots have a lake positioned between them...that looks pretty defensible to me, for what it's worth.

Leaving Con open and putting walls in Nicea means that the AI will bypass the later to walk through all these nice open grasslands to attack the former. Grasslands that will be fertilized with their bones.

Great advances, goz! :goodjob:

Dot placements also look good to me. The dot due west of Con seems least urgent, as it's just a fill-in for now, the one in the western hills the biggest gamble, since it's furthest from reinforcements. I'd probably go for the two on either side of the lake first, subject to revision once we get IW.

As soon as possible, I'd like to go on the offensive and use our army to take out some Russian towns. If we're seeing horses from them, we gotta get that resource disconnected.

How about letting Adrianpole finish its rax and then take over unit production, while Con gets to work on SoZ? I only say that because Adrianpole is only going to have six citizens for a long time, while we can build up a lot more than that in Con. On the other hand, we may want to be using Con for settlers. And we may not want to let any city get much past 7 citizens, since we can't afford the clowns or the lux tax.

I await someone who can make a convincing case one way or the other. Too much for a monkey brain to deal with. :crazyeye:

The roster is now:

goz - fourth city and army! :dance:
Andronicus - UP!
markh - on deck
SimpleMonkey - was favored by rng gods and explored some more of our world
classical hero - kept up the Russian slaughter and got us our third city!

scout: Yep, and it's 3-steps too. I'm a bit torn about the western area, if we keep cities to 6 pop, then mined plains will do good.

Team: We seriously need to get out a warrior and a curragh for scouting soon. Warrior going W and curragh E, so we can figure out these lands. Not to forget about horses and iron, ruskies already have horsemen and it can be dirty if we wait too long.

I still think Adrianople will be ok for SoZ with all those BG's. After barracks it won't take more than some 20-25 turns at the most, that is with improved tiles. Which are far from done, but still some 30 turns isn't too bad. When Adrianople is pop 6, Nicaea will use the deer. Pop is power.

Con should keep on building settlers and units.

Research after IW?

Agree about scouting. We need more info about our world. Also, a civ who isn't at war right now is a civ that is getting too far ahead. I'm also wondering what the aggression level is in this one. Andronicus, do you remember what it was when you rolled this start?

Am now more convinced about putting Adrianpole to work building SoZ as soon as it's done with rax. Key is getting our workers to mine those bg soon.

As far as techs go, I still favor pottery --> map making. Our UU can play hell with any landings, keep the AI from contacting each other, and tear up coastal improvements. I think of this as a good thing. Horseback Riding can wait until we can actually claim some horses -- Russian horses would be nice.

Pre-turn 1250BC
My thoughts are to get SoZ ASAP. I would like to build SoZ first in Adri and then rush / whip rax before first AC saving gpt on rax whilst SoZ built. However I note chop almost complete which wouldd be wasted if switch from rax build so I let it complete (in retrospect I believe best option would have been for me to abandon the chop and start the mining of BGs sooner)

Also believe much value in leaving Con at 5fpt. This allows us to peal off workers and settlers as required without sacrificing too much pop. Adri is now sufficientky large that growing will not be worthwhile. I switch Con to work both game and fish.

IT
Con spear -> archer

1225BC
Army d Sp (1-0)

1200BC
zzz

IT
Caesarea rax -> archer

1175BC
Adri grows size 5 - need to raise lux to 30%

IT
rSp loses to vArch -> promotes 3/5 at Nicaea (1-1) (healing eArch remains in town)
Nicaea walls -> cat

1150BC
Army d 3/5Arch (2-1)

IT
Con archer -> spear

1125BC
all quiet on the front

IT
Cathy wants to talk - I tell her she's too fat and ugly

1100BC
Army d Arch (3-1)

1075BC
all quiet on the front

IT
HM approach Caesarea
Caesarea archer -> warrior (to explore the west)

1050BC
vArch d HM (4-1)
Army d HM (5-1)

IT
Con spear -> worker

1025BC
advance army towards Russia (first chance to move it fully healed)

IT
Caesarea warrior -> archer

1000BC
Army sees Cathy has .
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
IVORY :eek:

Well that puts a cat among the pigeons - she should have no trouble building SoZ before us if we let her.
Options
- pillage ivory (does this work if already started building?) - at least it stops AC production once built.
- capture it after Cathy builds if she builds it first ( and switch Adri to HE ?)
- ? cut our losses and build archers in Adri (loss of 10 shields plus next turns production) to ensure we can capture whatever Cathy builds

Research
IW due in 1 (had to switch Caesarea to work lake this turn to squeeze it in)
Pottery -> MM would be good for granary in capital and dromons
CB -> Myst -> Poly -> Monarchy would be good to get out of despotism

Exploration
Cheap warrior just started out west
Con could spit out a curragh soon to go east
Army is getting a squiz at Cathy's lands

City MM
Adri building SoZ - req 4 BGs to be mined
- currently 3 BGs being mined (1 completes this turn) which should reduce SoZ from 34 turns to 23 turns (30% wastage allows up to 8spt when 4 BGs mined after 7 turns from now)
- grows size6 in 3 turns - will not increase production so rather than increase lux I suggest hiring a scientist

Con - recommend keeping it 5fpt and shuffle between workers/settlers + military units (plus a curragh soon) Can MM by swapping tiles with Caesarea

Nicaea - no rax - it should build cats

Caesarea - military, if production over-run, lake gives extra commerce

Nicaea and Caesarea in bad need of tile improvement, but have made connecting cities, then improving Adri my priorities

Military
- check it out - we are ave compared to Cathy :cool:
I think we have enough spears for defence, I replace the lost one then concentrated on archers / cats. AC would be nice if we get there first.
Army should pillage ivory and horses whilst scouting Cathy's lands, then consider attacking towns with units for backup so an injured army is not left vulnerable to counter attack

The roster is now:

goz - fourth city and army!
Andronicus - Started a statue
markh - UP
SimpleMonkey - ON DECK
classical hero - kept up the Russian slaughter and got us our third city!

I'd use the army immediately to capture the Russian worker and then burn that city to the ground the next turn. We still have a good chance to build SoZ, so I wouldn't abandon that plan yet.

The march to monarchy makes sense after we pick up MM, but I'm not in a hurry. Our economy wouldn't benefit that much for a while, and we'd lose the benefit of the pop-rush. HB is starting to make more sense after MM, since we know there must be horsies up north somewhere. Right? AC are da bomb, of course, but they don't upgrade.

Destination for next settler is going to depend on whether something wonderful appears when IW comes in.

Good job, Andronicus! Getting us going offensively is crucial right now, and you did it. Go rip 'em up, markh!

This is small continents right?:) If so, then I think there are only about 3 or 4 sources of ivory in the continent. :D

I got it !

0) 1000BC : perfect as always getting the game from Andronicus

IBT : IW is in -> pottery
Con : worker -> archer
Nicaea : pult -> another one, please

1) 975BC : archer army kills HM

IBT : nada

2) 950BC : archer kills warrior and promotes elite
eArcher kills warrior

IBT : two HM come into view

3) 925BC : our warrior discovers some big fourfooters in the NW

IBT : HM approaching Nicaea
Con : archer -> settler

4) 900BC :archer retreats HM
eArcher kills HM
archer army kills HM

IBT : Russian units from north and east
Caesarea : archer -> spear

5) 875BC : nada mucho

IBT : we kill an archer on defense

6) 850BC : lose an archer on a spear
eArcher kills spear

IBT : pottery is in -> CB in 6

7) 825BC : just scouting

IBT : Nicaea : pult -> pult

8) 800BC : archer army kills HM, but is almost redlined

IBT : Con : settler -> archer

9) 775BC : just moving units

IBT : Caesarea : spear -> archer

10) 750BC : I leave all units unmoved as I think we should discuss about this :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM_01,_750_BC.SAV

There is a settler/spear combo in Caesarea to move out for settling.

All in all, this is some great news. We've built military, lost almost nobody, and -- best of all -- discovered a whole stretch of territory in the west that's ripe for settling. :) I'm out on my laptop, so I can't open the save, but it appears that Fat Cathy is running out of steam. I suspect that markh has left me the makings of a respectable stack. If Con gets busy cranking out settlers (especially if I can get a granary built fast), the rest of the empire can get to work sending troops up north and east to claim the soon-to-be-former Russian lands.

I probably would have gone for MM before CB, but as long as we have a few turns invested in it we might as well finish the run. The path to Monarchy is a long one. Also, do we plan on revolting out of despotism before we set loose the dromons? Regardless, I do plan on getting a dinky boat out there soon.

Got it. Can't play until tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday at the latest, so we'll have plenty of time to discuss choices to be made.

The roster is now:

goz - fourth city and army!
Andronicus - Started a statue
markh - found excellent expansion territory and swatted down Fat Cathy's troops
SimpleMonkey - UP!
classical hero - on deck

There are are not many units. I think 4 - 5 archers and the army. Nothing I would try attacking a deity AI. At the moment it is sufficient to hold our position. I took CB as writing would have taken 25 turns. Too long in my opinion. We need a few more towns to be able to research at a reasonable pace. We are already suffering unit costs.

Hmmm. 4-5 archers plus an army, you say? And a cat or two? You give a monkey general much hope. As long as I'm burning cities rather than trying to hold them, that doesn't sound too bad. I do totally agree with the need for many more cities. Con is likely to be dedicated to alternating settlers and archers for quite a while. I also am very encouraged by the fact that Fat Cathy is still fighting with pointy sticks. We don't have iron close by, but neither does she. And we will have iron eventually -- sooner now that the west has been scouted.

I'm optimistic.

Writing and Lit I'm not so worried about. Libraries will be a big boost much further down the line, but not an immediate concern. And in this sort of game I'd much rather let someone else build the GLib.

It's time to sharpen the saber and get the war machine rocking.

Monkey Generalissimo takes command.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/monkey_general.jpg

Preturn (750BC) markh has left things in good shape so far. We have 4 (count 'em) workers, 5 spears, 2 warriors (one on patrol duty), 7 archers (3 in our glorious army), 1 settler, and 2 cats. Our economy is not so splendid -- we have 3 in the bank and are currently pulling in 0gpt. That will change as soon as our 5th city comes on line. CB due in 3. Writing must come next so we can get MM after that. (I keep forgetting that you have to have Writing for MM -- I always think that all you need is Pottery and Alphabet. Duh. )

Oh, and SoZ is due in 13.

Okay, so far so good, but do we see the problem? Take a look.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Rostov.jpg

Yes. Rostov. Rostov that has ivory. Rostov that is near a river and floodplain so its pop is already up to 7. This is not acceptable. This cannot stand. Rostov must burn. And this monkey will make it happen.

There's a pesky Russian scout outside our southwestern borders, but it's beneath me to send a troop down there to kill him.

I send an expeditionary force off to burn a Russian city.

IBT A lone Russian spearman comes into view. What can he hope to accomplish? The scout runs away.

730BC Move elite archer to cover two busy workers. Shift settler up to build our fifth city. Our formidible SOD moves in. Our Warrior on Patrol discovers the limits of the western peninsula.

IBT Three Russian horses appear. Eh, I've seen worse. It that the best you've got, Cathy? She also pop rushes a spear in Rostov and sends him running away. :lol: I was hoping she'd do that. Rostov is now back down to size 6. Cathy, you never did do too well in math back in high school.

710BC Build Varna. Our beloved army pillages the ivory outside of Rostov and discovers something interesting. Rostov is also at least one source of Cathy's horses.

Rostov must burn.

Shift troops around to let our workers finish their jobs unmolested and to keep the Russians from taking any of our cities. I've stretched our defenses a little thin here. Oh well, fortune favors the bold.

IBT Russians try their luck against walled Nicaea. Two of their horses die in the attempt, then the third takes down a spear before retreating hurt and bleeding. (2-1) CB comes in, set to Writing in 18.

690BC Cats yellowline two spears in Rostov and discover that that's all that Fat Cathy has there. Our army kills one, and our elite archer goes leader fishing. (4-1) No leader, but we have this to report:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/rostov_burned.jpg

This gets us four slaves (one was hiding inside the city) and kills Fat Cathy's ivory and at least one of her horses.

Elite archer kills an intruding Russian spear (5-1). Spear takes out the damaged horse outside of Nicaea. Why let him escape? (6-1)

Our army marches eastward onto a spit of land and discovers Yaroslavl. Yaroslavl has wines. These will be ours, and soon.

Use our newly minted cat in Nicaea to take a piece out of the Russian spear outside the walls. Let's see if he still has some fight in him after that.

IBT Nope. He runs away. A Russian archer runs out of Yaroslavl to try to take our cats away, trying to win fame as a hero of the motherland. He gets an unmarked grave instead. (7-1)

650BC Just for fun, I let our army take a shot at Yaroslavl. Cathy has two spears for defense. Correction. Cathy had two spears. Now she has none. (9-1) This time I decide to keep the city and its wines. Russian culture pressure is pretty minimal these days, I think. Turn one citizen into a scientist and Writing is now due in 10.

Use the cat in Nicaea to turn the yellowlined Russian spear into a redlined Russian spear, and use a new archer to turn this redlined Russian spear into a dead Russian spear. (10-1)

IBT One lonely Russian horse gallops across the countryside. Not sure what he hopes to accomplish. A Russian spear comes staggering by as well. Fat Cathy doesn't have much to work with these days.

The resisistance in Yaroslavl comes to an end after one turn. Byz is the way to go, folks. Pop-rush a spear in Yaroslavl.

630BC Move some troops to consolidate, mostly. Nobody nearby to kill.

IBT Well, that Russian horse had some friends, apparently. Our archers put up a good fight, but can't handle all three. Two horses die, two archers die, and we lose our Russian slaves. :mad: (12-3)

610BC Move troops. Don't get to kill anyone.

IBT :sleep:

590BC More of the same. Kill a defending spear in Smolensk. An enemy archer runs out of Smolensk. Perhaps even his dim Russian mind knows what is about to happen.

IBT Fat Cathy tries her luck against our secondary stack of archers. This is not her day. (14-3) And now she's sending warriors out against us. :lol:

570BC Move troops. Make workers work. Use cats to yellowline both defenders in Smolensk and the army makes hamburger of one of them. (15-3)

IBT Russian horse and Russian warrior take on our secondary stack. You can guess the result. (17-3) Actually it's better than that -- one of our archers promotes to elite.

The Inca now have the Temple of Artemis. Okay. And Madrid has the Hanging Gardens.

550BC Fat Cathy appears to have rushed a spear in Smolensk, so now it's down to pop 1. Fine by me -- means I don't have to garrison it.

What was Smolensk is now a rockpile. (19-3)

IBT The archer without a city takes a shot at Yaroslavl. (20-3)

And the Inca now also have The Great Lighthouse. They may be a problem once they finally show their faces. Good thing we'll have dromons. Eventually. :rolleyes:

530BC Build Smyrna with old Russian roads connecting it to Yaroslavl. Which means we now have wines connected. :woohoo: Take lux down and science up. Writing now due in 4, turning a +2gpt profit.

Kill the fortified warrior lurking outside of Yaroslavl. Just because he annoyed me. (21-3) Nobody else to kill.

And that's my 10. Here's what the eastern part of our empire looks like.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/530BC.jpg

There's a settler due in Con in 3 turns. Should probably build a granary there before we do any more settler pumping. I'd put that guy either right on the horses to take advantage of the irrigated flood plains, or on the pink dot to keep CxxC spacing. Not sure. Other configurations are always possible. But putting a settler out there gets us a might fine resource. There are troops healing in Smyrna, ready to take the fight to Fat Cathy's doorstep. Oh, and I switched Yaroslavl to a dinky boat after I took the screenshot.

Grand total: Killed a lot. Gained and then lost some slaves. :( Burned two cities, took over one, and built two. And the SoZ is due in two turns. :dance:

Here's the <<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey01_530_BC.SAV).

The roster is now:

goz - ON DECK
Andronicus - Started a statue
markh - found excellent expansion territory and swatted down Fat Cathy's troops
SimpleMonkey - burned and built, baby!
classical hero - UP!

Great work SM - Monkey Generalissimo really brought Cathy to a halt in a hurry. :goodjob:
With horses and AC soon we are ready to meet our next challenge soon
Looks like we have lots of land to expand into :D

I think we want our SF up and running ASAP - there is likely to be a short period of time of quiet where we can focus on expansion before the next AI we meet sends its forces.
I propose building granary in Con ASAP. SoZ will still be built in 2 turns if Adri gives Con its shared BG. By using all avail BGs Con can do 10spt and build granary in 5. It can then be MMed to produce a settler on growing to size 7, leaving it in good shape for 4 turn SF. Mining the plains tile SW of our original ivory would help with production on growth allowing other towns to use more BGs (6spt size 5 and 7spt size 6 with 2 shields on each growth means Con will only req 2 BGs, the other tiles will be lake fish, game and iPlains or mGrass)

Suggest building military units in Caesarea and (after SoZ) Adri as these are our only rax towns - they can peel off workers whenever about to grow size 7
Should Nicaea build a 3rd rax? - or do we want it to build more cats (currently have 4 - no harm in more)

Is it too early to think about FP ? Varna?

Preturn. Not much.

IBT. I lose an Archer to a horse. This also happened. Not much of worry.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5598/mom6wx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 1. I kill the horse with the army and we ge another archer as an elite. The army is now 5/13. Next turn we will get SoZ. :woohoo:

IBT. I kill an Archer afet some bombardment.

Turn 2. We build Statue of Zeus.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2712/soz1br.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I bombard a spearman that is escorting a settler. I kill an archer and now it is elite. I think we are near the capital.

IBT. We kill another archer.

Turn 3. We do some more bombardment.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 4. We build a setler and it going to that spot to get horses.

IBT. More units are for us to kill. This is built.
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1986/greatwall0gg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 5. W build another settler and we go to one on the site that I proposed that we build. I managed to kill two spears and capture We get writing and I switch now to Horseback riding.

IBT. Nohing.

Turn 6. Nothing.

IBT. I expected some horses to attck us but they did not.

Turn 7. I build Heraclea and thu we can now have Chariots and soon to be Horses.
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7880/herclea4zi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2096/chariots1hn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT. Two Horses are near Smyrna.

Turn 8. We build our first AC. I kil the two Horses by attacking them with the army and the AC. Soon there will be a greater chance for us to attack the Russians in there territory. I build another city.
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2427/trebizond8mj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 9. I kill a Russian scout outside of Varna.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 10. I managed to find Moscow with us able to attack them in the next coming turns.
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6030/moscow8uk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I build another settler. Con is on constant settler duty right now since it is our best city for doing that. I must say that I have three cities producing temples. They are for te only purpose so that we can start to build some horses. So once we get Horseback riding, we can swap those citied for horses.

Here are some thoughts for the next few rounds. We need to start to expand because we do not have enough cities. Here is a map of two cities that are a must for us to get, one is for the iron, so that noone esle can get it and one that is close to cows. I left the rest empty so that we can do what ever we need for the area in between those two cities I have earmarked. I have one settler that is moving towards the first red dot.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6276/cityplacement28xz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A couple of comments
Con needs its granary for SF operation which will make settler production much more efficient
Both Con and Adri are ungarrisoned. It probably wont happen, but what if a galley appears (Incans have GLH) and drops a unit off between them? They are our 2 best towns and this is AW.
edit - my bad - just realised we are at bottom of sceen so wont be approached from south :blush:
BTW I like gems - must have gems to go with ivory and wine

I did a dotmap for 530BC and was about to post it when realised classical hero beat me to it
So here's my stab at a 350BC dot map
We have 2 potential towns on eastern peninsula (blue dots). about 7 on lage western area leading up to iron, 2 on small southern peninsula, pink dot as previously planned and various others near Cathy that will probably need to be decided once we take her cities

Moscow in sight! :woohoo: Do we even want to raze it, or should we keep it as a trophy? :devil:

Great job, CH! You really kept up the momentum on Cathy. I totally agree with going for Horseback Riding before Map Making. Horsemen will carry us far. But definitely MM after that.

Can we agree that Inca are going to be a problem? Looks like they're a bit of a runaway, and are probably close to the Middle Ages if not there already.

I like the dotmap that Andronicus made. I probably wouldn't settle on that one gold hill, but right next too it, but that's just me. A mined gold hill is a beautiful thing. Other than that, let's get Con to finish its granary and then get some settlers out there. Do we have any other cities that look like likely SF? Pretty rare in AW to have way more room than settlers this far in the game. :cool:

Dunno exactly where our FP should go, but we should get it up and running soon. Maybe that's where our next leader should go, although Cathy may not be giving us too many more chances to pop a leader. Heh heh.

Let's keep it rollin'!

goz - UP!
Andronicus - ON DECK
markh - found excellent expansion territory and swatted down Fat Cathy's troops
SimpleMonkey - burned and built, baby!
classical hero - got us horses!

I probably wouldn't settle on that one gold hill, but right next too it, but that's just me. A mined gold hill is a beautiful thing.

Good point
On rethinking suggest
1) delete town N,2NW of Varna
2) move most northerly town 1SE
3) move gold hill 1NE
3) movemost westerly 1SE
4) add extra town on most northerly explored tile

I agree with Andronicus's shifts. Not that the next player is going to be able to place all those towns in 10 turns, but it's a start. :lol:

I agree with Andronicus's shifts. Not that the next player is going to be able to place all those towns in 10 turns, but it's a start. :lol:

Hey thats only 16
All we need is a 4/turn SF instead of 4turn SF :D

The dots look alright, but we have to plop down cities withing "3-steps" all the time, or they will be defenseless. It's a basic mistake to build towns too far away and we won't do that mistake. :)

Some very nice turnsets and with Cathy pretty much gassed, we can take her out in our own pace.

Strange that we haven't met anyone else yet...all this land shared between us and Russia, that's not something you see in every game.

Got it and will build that granary.

I must say that during one IBT, I saw the colours of another AI, but they did not stay nearby long enough for us to make contact. IIRC, it were the Incans.

Pre-turn - Swap some tiles between cities to get HBR in 2t.

Con is changed to granary, 15t atm, I will probably whip it.

Trebizond is placed in a peculiar place, no 3-step, but we can live with that.

2 workers are standing on a tile where next city should be, waste.

IBT - A pink galley shows up.

330BC - Smyrna worker -> barracks.

Pink are Inca, they know heaps and we're at war. Send an archer to Yaroslavl, just in case.
Army is ready for assault on Moscow next turn.

310BC - We learn HBR -> MM in 13 turns at 80%. 3 cities swap temples to horses.

Army goes 10/13, killing vet spear.
AC goes 3/6 killing another vet spear. [2-0]

Pink galley went E btw.

290BC - Russian vet archer suicides against our mini-stack.

Adrianople (renamed Adri) produces AC.

Army 8/13 kills vet spear in Moscow, take a punt with elite archer, who kills last vet spear and we take the city. [5-0]: (Drats, upload server is mucking up)

Chalcedon founded -> barracks.

Our little stack of 4 pults, 2 archers and a spear move strategically to kill some archers next turn (hopefully).

270BC - Incan galley shows up again, now getting close to Adri.

3 cities build horses, Nicaea continue on that path and Caesarea start pult, so Con can use BG. Adri start settler.

Army kills reg archer threatening Moscow. 2 AC's and 2 archers kills stack of 4 russian archers. [10-0]

250BC - Russian settler pair walks through Moscows territory. :rolleyes: Pink galley doesn't seem to have anything to unload.

Yaroslavl curragh -> barracks.

Get a couple of slaves from the settler pair.

Inca have founded a town NW of the goldhill, the 3 new horses are going there.

230BC - Kill another archer. [11-0]

210BC - 3 reg archers shows up and dies. [14-0]

Decide to now whip the granary, pop is good.

190BC - Adri AC.
Caesarea pult -> horse
Trebizond worker -> barracks

Army 6/13 kills 2 vet spears in St Pete's, elite AC finish off the last spear and we have another town.

Kill stray archer. [18-0]

170BC - Adri settler -> horse
Nicaea horse -> settler

Kill 2 spears in Chiuto (Inca). Kill 3 russian archers. [23-0]

150BC - Con granary -> settler

Raze Chiuto, killing a spear and an archer, losing a horse.

Kill 3 scattered russian archers. [28-1] That's all they throw at us now, reg archers that is.

I think we need to regroup and build some more defenders, if Inca start to send stuff.

Great set, Goz! :goodjob: If all Cathy can throw at us is newbie archers, and she's doing it from size 1 and 2 cities, I think we have her pretty well gassed. Still some mopping up to do, though, but she's not coming back.

The Inca, on the other hand, are going to be a different matter. One the one hand, they may even be making MedInf at this point. On the other hand, I suspect that if they're on a different continent that it's going to take them a while to launch any kind of a sea invasion. And dromons are coming. :dance:

Oh, and lets build some cities up in Russia to claim those gems and make use of the wheat, cows, and that beautiful iron that Cathy never bothered to make use of. :crazyeye:

Good progress!

The roster is:

goz - hung Byzantine wallpaper in Moscow and declared war on the big guys
Andronicus - UP!
markh - ON DECK
SimpleMonkey - burned and built, baby!
classical hero - got us horses!

@ simple, just thought i'd check in and spam. :salute: nice roster.

At work now so cant look at save.
My thinking is next 2 cities should claim gems and Cathy's iron.
This iron will be much easier to defend as we already have our main army in the region and in addition its already roaded.

Great sets, fellow combatants. :goodjob:

Do we want our golden age asap or do we wait until we are a monarchy / have our FP ? Just to ensure that this clumsy fellow will not screw it up.

Do we want our golden age asap or do we wait until we are a monarchy / have our FP ? Just to ensure that this clumsy fellow will not screw it up.

I would like GA in monarchy, but we not have a choice
MM shown as due in 4 but with 10g and -7gpt, it may be longer, then we need (I havnt save in front of me, but from checking prev posts I think we have CB but not myst) myst, poly and monarchy ? too long to delay using our UU?
I suggest we delay if practicle, but if we are getting too many units being dropped off we may need the dromons. (In retrospect if we had researched monarchy before writing and MM, we would have researched those techs faster out of despotism)
GA would be a good time to build FP

edit I'm up next, will play tonight

I'd love to have our GA in monarchy as well, but as Andronicus said ...

If we can stand off Inca landings with horses and AC, then let's do it. Agree with Andronicus's assessment -- I was probably too excited to get dromons and wasn't thinking of how much faster research would be once we got out of despotism. Here's a thought, though. Do we want to snag literature now or wait until we get Monarchy? Not that I favor building the GLib, but so that we can spam out libraries and crank up our research rate that way. It might make sense to go for Lit now, then the Monarchy path, since we're scientific and can pop-rush libs effectively.

In the meantime, I'd still get a dinky boat out there to explore and make ... friends? :lol:

@ AK Good to have you drop by! :salute: Feel free to comment on the monkey madness anytime!

Its 4am so just a short update

Cathy has 1 city left - I didnt quite manage to reach my aim of eliminating her on my turnset

Incans have 1 city on the western tip of our continent manned by a pike - expect pikes and MI to land soon
Poly due in 4 turns, perhaps 16-20 turns then for monarchy looking at the civassist tech data. I used a bunch of scientists in ex-Russian cities to spoeed things along

Our first dromons are only a dew turns away - I recommend using them in stacks so they are not attacked and either bombard galleys on their way to our continent to send them back, or pillage their shores. This way we could get the benefit of them without triggerring our GA until we are in monarchy

My turnlog will have to wait till after work tomorrow (er today - I start in less than 3 hours :eek: )

Woot! We have almost a whole continent to ourselves. This is a huge plus. Our eastern swamps are safe from settlement, so we can concentrate on driving off the Incan invaders in the west. Cats and horses and AC should do the trick nicely.

Agree with the idea of using our dromons in stacks to bombard enemy galleys (or caravels :eek: ) and to strip the Inca coast of improvements. If ... excuse me, when we get another leader we could turn him into an empty army, load him and a spear into a boat, followed by another spear, and thus land a two spear pillager in Incaland.

Any thoughts on the notion of delaying the switch to Monarchy until we get Lit and pop-rush some libraries?

Can't wait to read the turnlog!

The roster is:

goz - hung Byzantine wallpaper in Moscow and declared war on the big guys
Andronicus - reduced Cathy to a spear and an archer and got us two lux and iron
markh - UP!
SimpleMonkey - ON DECK
classical hero - got us horses!

Remember to use your UU, the Dromon, with its lethal borbardment.:) That will help the destruction of the Inca empire.

Remember to use your UU, the Dromon, with its lethal borbardment.:) That will help the destruction of the Inca empire.
Not before we want our GA if we can help it

Turnlog

Preturn 150BC
Switch Con to warrior to alow growth to size 5 (needs to sart size 5 for 4 turn SF)
Rush spear in St P
Trebizond switched to curragh (later to switch to dromon)

IT
St P : spear -> spear

1) 130BC
@ Bryansk : eAC d Sp (1-0), Army d Sp (2-0), AC d Arch -> capture (3-0)
mopping up Arch loses Arch (3-1), HM d Arch (4-1)
hire a bunch of scientists to squeeze MM in 2 turns

IT
Con : warrior -> settler (SF now up and running)

2) 110BC
eArch d Sp (5-1)
eArch d Sp with settler -> 2 slaves (6-1)
Sardica settled on pink dot on lake

IT
MM -> Myst in 4 with surplus :)
Caesarea HM -> settler
left 2 cats and 2 slaves uncovered -> captured :smoke:

3) 90BC
@ Yakutsk : eAC d Sp (7-1), AC d Sp -> capture (8-1)
AC d Arch and recovers 2 slaves (9-1)
Incan HM settler pair found in middle of western peninsula HM d HM (10-1) -> more slaves - start roading back to our settled area

IT
eArch d Arch (11-1)
Moscow riots - for some reason they want us to stop the aggression v mother country -> hire some more scientists
Adri HM -> HM
Nicaea settler -> HM

4) 70BC
recapture cats trying to return to Yekaterinburg -> use immed to redlin sole spear there :rolleyes:
@ Yekaterinburg : eArch d Sp (12-1) -> autorazes
eArch d Arch threatening Bryansk (13-1)
exploring curragh sees Cathy has incense - we wants it - must have it

IT
Inca settles Huanuco Pampa on western tip of our continent

5) 50BC
@ Krasnoyask : Army d Sp -> capture (14-1)

IT
Con : settler -> settler
Varna : rax -> spear

6) 30BC
Army d Sp/settler -> 2 slaves (15-1)
eAC d Sp (16-1)
HM d Arch on hill threatening Moscow (17-1)
science set to 0% and Russian scientists ensure myst next turn

IT
Myst -> Poly in 9 at present
Heraclea settler -> cat
Caesarea settler -> HM

7) 10BC
Naissus settled by gems -> 3 lux and lux slider now at 0%
AC d Arch (18-1)
Vladivostock just grown size 2
@ Vladivostock : AC d Sp (19-1), AC d Sp (20-1), HM d Arch promotes (21-1) -> capture ( these 3 units had been waiting until grew size 2)

IT
Adri HM -> HM

8) 10AD
Orenburg the capital past 10 turns expands
@ Orenburg : Army d 2 Sp (23-1), AC d Sp 24-1) -> capture
Arch loses Arch (24-2)

IT
Cathy wants to talk - I tell her no way, she's still too fat and ugly
Nicaea HM -> spear

9) 30AD
move troops to Novgorod (incense + iron :D ), Cathy now just 2 cities

IT
Incan archer exits Huanuco P
Con : settler -> settler
Caesarea : spear -> spear

10) 50AD
eArch d Arch (25-2)
@ Novgorod : HM loses Sp (25-3), eArch loses Sp (25-4) eAC d Sp (26-4) :sad: my luck didnt quite last the 10 turns -> autorazed
Dyrrachium settled SW of gold hill
HM retreats v Arch @ HP doing no damage

And there I leave it for the next lucky player

Poly now due in 4 - I suggest then monarchy so we can have non-despotic GA

Currently req mp in towns size 5 and 6, once incense hooked up (in 3 turns) should only req them in size 6 towns

Settlers en route to -
Blue dot 1N of iron - will reach in 3 turns, iron req roading, incense connected
Pink dot on N coast of W peninsula - road almost complete - reaches in 3 turns
Red dot on SW tip SE peninsula - reaches next turn
2 further settlers due in 4 turns (Con) and 5 turns (Yaraslavl)
Not too sure about purple dot north of core, but I think those on W peninsula work well with 3 spacing

Well our empire has expanded nicely
5 Russian towns captured, 2 autorazed and 3 new towns settled
3rd lux and soon a 4th will be avail

A FP would be very beneficial now - my recommendation is Chalcedon which currently has 60% wastage and could be switched to FP building in 88 (less if grows enough to be 4spt) This region reqires quite a bit of worker activity but has potential to add some quite productive cities. Civassists indicates a FP in Chalcedon would increase commerce by over 20%

Military
Cathy has 1 city but not worth capturing - options are either to get her out of the way now or leave her around to produce primative units for leader fishing
Incans are our big threat now and probably for some time
They have pikes and will probably bring MDI soon. They are likely tro attack from 2 regions - the far west from HP and the far north. I suspect the site of Novgorod with incense and iron may attract her to deposit a settler pair.
I think we need 2 forces - a northern and a western. Both require sig cat stack to take down pikes without too much losses. A few swords to support our ACs, Army and HM would be worthwhile once iron's hooked up. Dromons will be key to intercepting landings hopefully before we see knights and muskets.

I think we need to start to get the marsh cleared because this is a great area for us to have for some cities.

Marsh usually has plenty of BG's under that swamp.:) Better get big stack of workers also.

11 will be able to clear one march a turn.

I got it. Don't know whether I manage to play still today.

Go for it, markh! You can take your time, since I won't be able to take the turn after you until Friday at the earliest.

Just a thought -- would we be at all suprised to find saltpeter right where Inca have planted their vile city on our western peninsula? :rolleyes:

Just a thought -- would we be at all suprised to find saltpeter right where Inca have planted their vile city on our western peninsula? :rolleyes:
Good point - a stack of cats with a few AC would make short work of pikes and once HP is size 2 it can be ours ;)

0) 50AD : reduce science to 80%, poly still in4 at -2gpt

IBT : a Russian archer suicides against our spear
Bryansk : worker -> pult

1) 70AD : troop movements

IBT : Incas drop an MDI and a settler in front of our AC and HM in the west
Adri : HM -> HM

2) 90AD : lose a HM on the MDI
AC kills the MDI without a scratch and promotes elite and giving us 2 new slaves
found Septum : dromon

IBT : an Incan pike leaves HP
Nicaea : spear -> spear
Trebizond : dromon -> dromon

3) 110AD : found Nicomedia at the iron
science back to 50% : poly due next IBT

IBT : The Hittites have been destroyed, one less
poly comes is -> monarchy in 13 at 80%
Moscow : spear -> spear

4) 130AD : bomb an Ican galley trying to enter former Russian waters
try to ship our dinky boat to the Incan mainlands, one IBT in treacherous waters
Amorium founded in the NW

IBT : a Russian galley appears in the West
Incas drop an MDI and pike near Moscow
Con : settler -> settler
Yaroslavl : settler -> pult
Caesarea : spear -> spear

5) 150AD : 2 ACs die trying to take Khabarovsk
the army kills the two spears and the Russians are gone
1 AC dies trying to kill a wounded Incan pike
a HM kills the pike

IBT : the Incan pike and MDI go for Yakutsk
Incas drop an archer at Vladivostok
Adri : horseman -> horseman
Smyrna : barracks -> spear
Varna : spear -> spear
We get two palace expansions

6) 170AD : no damn cat hits the Incan pike :gripe:
eAC kills Incan archer
AC kills another Incan archer
eAC kills Incan pike
eArcher kills MDI without a scratch, so all intruders are gone
incense is connected

IBT : Naissus : worker -> pult
Nicaea : spear -> horseman

7) 190AD : found Ancyra : dromon
just worker actions and troops movement

IBT : I am impressed. The AI bombards our curragh from a city, but our captain is too good for them. They throw their rock far aside.
Chalcedon : spear -> sword

8) 210AD : our dromon spots a light blue border in the West, but not safe
not much to do

IBT : the Incas move a lot pikes and MDIs south

9) 230AD : eAC kills Incan archer and reveals just an Incan spear in HP
found Brusa : dromon

IBT : an Incan longbow leaves HP
Incas drop an archer at Vladivostok
Con : settler -> settler
Adri : sword -> sword

10) 250AD : eAC kills archer and we have another leader :D

As it is my last turn of this set I end my turnset here to discuss what to do with the leader. Everything is unmoved and I did not mm before saving. Sorry for that. Furthermore we might get in contact with the blue AI in the west if we send our dromon there. It would have to stand one turn in treacherous waters.

FP would be a good idea I think. A second army is not that urgent at the moment. We need more productive cities to build units. We can support the double of our current units with our city count and actually we are quite short of units in my opinion.

Agree with using our leader for FP. The question is, in what city? We need that magical mix of production and growth. I'll look at the save tomorrow sometime (I won't be able to open it until late tonight at the earliest) and take a look at it, but in the mean time we should talk over location.

As far as going across the big water to contact (I suspect) Spain, I'm contemplating it. My guess is that Inca is the superpower right now, and that Spain might be the only other surviving civ, or at least one of only a little remnant. If we pull Spain into our war machine right now, that doubles our number of landings. On the other hand, it's gonna slow them down. For now I vote yes to make contact and let Bella know what we think of her.

BTW, I noticed that Cathy's galley apparently didn't have a settler on it. That's the first big trophy in the Byz hall of fame! :banana:

I also notice that longbows have a pretty serious attack but are total pansies on defense. Should be easy to chop them up with AC.

Long live the Byz war machine!

goz - hung Byzantine wallpaper in Moscow and declared war on the big guys
Andronicus - reduced Cathy to a spear and an archer and got us two lux and iron
markh - killed Fat Cathy and got us our second leader :woohoo:
SimpleMonkey - UP!
classical hero - ON DECK

In conquests the placement of the FP is not that important as in Vanilla or PTW, but Andronicus already suggested Chalcedon. +20% commerce would not be too bad.

In conquests the placement of the FP is not that important as in Vanilla or PTW, but Andronicus already suggested Chalcedon. +20% commerce would not be too bad.

In conquests there is a small but sig reduction to corruption in cities near FP. This becomes insig when too far from palace. Chalcedon is centrally located on western peninsula at a distance where corruption is significantly low enough to make the surrounding towns quite powerful. Putting it far away gives a bigger improvemnet in corruption for the FP city but does nothing for surrounding towns if they are totally corrupt. Either way there are obvious benefits across the board due to increase in OCN it produces. Running some tests in civassist with FP in multiple sites can be helpful - I only trialled Chalcedon because eyeballing it, it appeared best site.
Perhaps there is a better?
:scan:

OK I ran a few tests with civassist and best commerce is shown with FP in Yaroslavl because it it goes from 90% corrupt to being able to utilise the wines, however Chalcedon is only 1 behind.
When it comes to total production Chalcedon leads the way.

With Fat Cathy now only a memory, it was time for Theodora and her (so far) capable Monkey Generalisimo to take stock of the empire. As the monkey general found the last time he assumed command, markh had left things running smoothly. With four lux now on line, no extra income was required for the Byzantine citizen's beer fund. Many former citizens of Russia were plowing fields and digging mines for future Byzantine development. A few cities were tweaked to foster growth without sacrificing science or commerce. Our armed forces, who had so bravely ground the Russians into hamburgers (with fries) were in good shape, but there were too few of them -- only 7 horses, 5 cats, 1 sword, 3 warriors, 4 archers, 14 spearmen, and 1 dromon (the terror of the seas) stood between the Byzantines and the new threat.

The Inca.

Expansionist, Agricultural, and with very poor personal hygine, the Inca would no doubt prove to be a challange.

Monkey Generalisimo felt up to this challenge.

It was not yet time to contemplate an overseas invasion. Many more dromons would have to be built in our harbors before that would be possible. No, the job for now was simply to drive the Inca off our shores and to keep them off until the day came for Theodora to set foot (size 6) on the Inca continent and make it hers.

Preflight Move our new leader towards Chalcedon, the site of our future Forbidden Palace. Though Chalcedon lacks fresh water, it does have a fine cow, many hills, and access to one of Brusa's bg tiles. Not too far and not too close to Con, our ancient capital. It would have really been nice for it to have had an iron mine in the neighborhood, just for the ridiculously remote odds that coal would have appeared there eventually as well, giving us the much-desired, seldom-accomplished FP/Iron Works combo. Oh well.

Odds are likely that the Inca are going to land hostile troops up north in the recently liberated Russian lands. At least that's where I'd land them. It's the closest to Incaland, and our forces up there are a bit thin. A couple of cities are, in fact, completely ungarrisoned. I move our army up north to await developments there. Leaving an inland city or two up there unguarded is a pretty good way to keep the Inca landings in a limited area. We will not neglect to have a welcoming party waiting. :lol:

Shift some other troops to clean out the one spot that keeps this from being a purely Byzantine continent.

And I take the risk of pushing our first dromon into trecherous waters. Time to make new "friends."

Ah, as I suspected.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/new_friends.jpg

By the rules of our varient, our Byzantine sailors empty their garbage pails into Spanish waters, pop open some beers, and, in the name of the mighty Theodora, declare war.

Funny, Isabella was already furious before we even knocked on her door. Wonder if Cathy was sending her postcards before all mail service from Russian was terminated. :D

IBT The Inca longbow tries his luck against an AC up on a hill. His luck is not good. (1-0) Two Inca galleys show up outside Vladivastok, which is not exactly where I was expecting them. Why do the Inca insist on toying with me?

Isabella runs around with her hands in the air and gobbles like a turkey.

Oh, and our bold dromon actually sinks off the Spanish coast. :gripe: Come on, we're seafaring, for goodness sake.

260AD Our mounted killers sweep towards Huanuco Pampa. A lucky shot from an Incan longbow takes down one horseman, but his fellow slays a spear and promotes to elite, and the AC finish off the remaining defenders. (4-1) Our continent is now ours alone. I rename HP.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/inca_stinka.jpg

Move troops to give the Inca a big hello when they land next turn.

IBT The two Inca galleys turn tail, then a third shows up and drops off ... a single horseman. It is to laugh. Ha hah.

Inca cat takes a shot at our dinky boat as it sails by, but the Inca shore patrol have been dipping into the grog a little too early in the morning for good marksmanship.

270AD Our AC on duty makes short work of the Inca horse. He keeps the scalp. (5-1)

Our dinky boat out on patrol also sees dark blue borders. Could it be time to invite the Koreans to come and play next turn?

IBT Well, the good news is that a very quick construction job is now complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/fp.jpg

That's quite a nice thing. But do you see what happens when a monkey's not paying attention?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/drat.jpg

Should have known they'd go after that unguarded incense. Well, this will not last.

280AD Move troops to get rid of this blight on our shores.

Monarchy due next turn. I crank down the volume on reseach and fire some scientists for just one turn.

Oh yeah, and we declare war on the Koreans.

IBT Three Spanish galleys swoop down right next to our dinky boat. We may not be doing much sea exploration for a bit.

290AD Monarchy comes in. We're not quite ready yet to give up the despot's throne, so I put off our revolution. Set research to Literature in 6 while still pulling in 2gpt.

Shift troops. Not ready to kill anybody yet.

Figure the only safe place for our dinky boat is out in the deep ocean. Even if he sinks there, I won't give Isabella the satisfaction.

IBT Not much. Our dinky boat doesn't sink. There are lots of galleys outside this new Inca incursion on our shores. Suspect they're landing troops. We shall see.

300AD More moving and sharpening swords.

IBT Lots of Inca galleys sail around, but nobody lands that I can see.

310AD Use blazing dromon fire to soften up Tambowhatchamacallit. We damage a galley parked inside the city harbor, leaving the pikeman unharmed. :cringe: Put off the assault for another turn.

Build Iconium near our western iron hill. Figure that's where the AI would love to plant another city.

IBT Korea build's Sun Tzu's chinese restaurant. Inca sightseers sail by.

320AD More of the same. Cats are now in position to take out Tambowhatever next turn. Our dinky boat still sails the deep ocean, mocking the feeble Spanish sailors.

IBT I suspect that Inca are trying to land troops somewhere, but they haven't come out of the fog yet.

330AD Dromon takes a nice little piece out of an Inca galley on our west coast. Sail on. Gotta get over to Incaland to start stripping improvements.

Our other dromon crisps the pikeman in Tambowambo and yellowlines him. Cats ping the spear. Army finishes off the pike, elite AC takes down the spear, and vet AC takes out the longbow. (10-1) Guess Inca were landing troops there after all. I keep the city, since it went up to 2 pop and it's where we were going to place a city anyway. Thanks, Inca dude.

Our dinky boat is still riding high. Spanish are right next to it but won't touch it.

IBT The Inca finally land a more serious invasion force than a single horse: 1 reg archer, 1 reg longbow, 1 reg pike, 1 vet medinf, and 1 vet knight. They're in easy reach of Vladivostok (1 spear) and Naissus (nobody home). Will have to move some units fast to cover us down there.

340AD Resistance in Inca Stinka finally comes to an end, so I set it to starve. I have no patience with these Inca folk. Move troops in a desparate scramble to cover our butts near the Inca invasion. I also notice a galley way up north near Orenburg, so send an AC up there to prevent mayhem.

IBT Spanish attack our dinky boat with a galley and we sink the galley. (11-1) That little dinky boat rawks! :rockon: Inca send their main troops towards Moscow, which I left open to tempt them, but their knight proves too much for our single spear guarding Vladivostok. (11-2) :mad:

Literature comes in. Set to CoL in 4.

Looks like the Inca got themselves some Knights Templar.

350AD AC takes out the knight that took Vlad. (12-2) Inca must have rushed spear instantly, so we don't have it back yet.

I leave the rest of the troops unmoved and ready for action. Some fancy shifting should let the next better player tear up the rest of the Inca when they move onto the flatland outside Moscow next turn. Not sure where they're going to land after that. I tried to pump out plenty of settlers so we could minimize coastline hiding in the dark. One dromon is over on the Inca continent but hasn't managed to pillage anything yet. Many troops are over in the west. Bank account is healthy at 183g plus 19gpt. We're still despots for the time being. Dunno what else to say. Here's where the fighting's going to be.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/350AD.jpg

Hope I left things in as good a shape as when I found them (well, except for that whole losing Vladivostok thing). The most irritating thing is not knowing where the Inca are going to pop up next. This annoys me. Why don't they call ahead first?

Ah well, here's the >>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey01_350_AD1.SAV).

The roster is:

goz - ON DECK
Andronicus - reduced Cathy to a spear and an archer and got us two lux and iron
markh - killed Fat Cathy and got us our second leader
SimpleMonkey - invited Spain and Korea to join the party
classical hero - UP!

Turn one. I manage to get our Golden age going. I kill a galley with a Dromon.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3703/ga4hp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I managed to kill the stack of Incan units on one of our gems. There was a pike, MI, Archer and long on that square. We lose an AC to a pike near some ruins. Had we won we would have got us some slaves.

IBT. Nothing

Turn two. We kill the Injured pike and we get ourselves some slaves. We attack a Galley and we lose. We try to take back Vlad, but we have an AC retreat and a Horse die. We kill one spear in the city, the other is wonded. We have lots of Incan galleys around the place and we must stop them from getting close to our shores. We bombard a galley and it dies.

IBT. Reinforcements arrive for the Incans.

Turn three. I kill an Incan Galley

IBT. Nothing. The AI is stupid.

Turn four. I recapture Vlad. I kill two spears fo the loss of nothing and I kill a galley inside.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/850/vlad3bm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
We produce anothe AC. I kill two MI and i get two elite Swords. I bombard a galley to 1/4

IBT. We lost a curragh in treachous waters.

Turn five. We get Code of Laws. I research Philosophy. We bombard another galley. We build Vidin.
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/249/vidin5oy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT.

Turn six. I kill a galley after losing a Dromon.

IBT. Nothing

Turn seven. I build Samosata.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8804/samosata1kh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT.

Turn Eight. I kill a Gallley and I bombard a galley inside of Juli.

IBT.

Turn Nine. We produce a AC and we discover Philosophy. We are now producing Currency. We killed a spear in Juli and we had an AC Retreat.

IBT.Nothing.

Turn ten. We kill two spears in Juli and we had an AC killed. There is onlu one very injured spear and it shall fall the next turn. We build Ani.

We need to wary of the Incan armies because they can appear just about anywhere. It appears that SM did not play his full turns last go because I finished off his turn ten. So next time he plays 11 turns to get things back to even. The whole continent is just about covered with our cities so we need to continue on doing that. Only the marsh is not covered by that is ours unitl we want it. Our biggest threat is the Incan since they are so powerful and they have the most culture.

I don't know if that was an accident or if the galley attacked our dromon at the start of CH's turnset, rather than the other way around, but let me say it now. Initiating our Golden Age while we were still in despotism was a mistake. How major a mistake, I'm not sure, but we're definitely not getting the benefits from it that we should. We specifically agreed to postpone it until we were in Monarchy, and we hadn't switched to Monarchy yet. (Pop size hadn't gotten high enough for unit support.) Our dromons were for damaging enemy vessels to send them back home before they landed troops, and most importantly for pillaging coastline improvements. Well, now it's too late and we have to deal with what we have to work with.

My suggestion is that we use our GA to build units (of course) and libraries in as many cities as are producing a decent cash outflow. Our science output is pretty good already, and the discounted libraries we can build will help that a lot. Since we're still despots we can use pop-rushing, especially short-rushing, to hurry the libs along.

I notice that no other civ has started the GLib, but I wouldn't start building it ourselves. We don't have a prebuild in place and we could easily be outbuilt, leaving us with a very expensive coliseum or temple. Let the Inca build it and we'll take it from them eventually. It will benefit us more then anyway.

More dromons and keep pounding the Inca coastal improvements. Next leader should be used to make a pillaging army that we can land and use to start tearing up Inca roads inland. We could make it a three AC army, shipping the parts over separately, to maximize the damage it can do.

Switch to Monarchy after our GA is over and our core libraries built.

If Inca continue to land troops near Vladivostok then we can keep leaving Moscow empty to tempt them inland and hit the landing party from the mountains. I probably didn't do a very good job of distributing our troops, so they'll likely need to be rearranged to be able to cover our coastline. Even better is to keep sinking enemy galleys and soon the seas will be ours.

The roster is:

goz - UP!
Andronicus - ON DECK
markh - killed Fat Cathy and got us our second leader
SimpleMonkey - invited Spain and Korea to join the party
classical hero - started our GA and got us our continent back

Yikes, despot GA. :twitch:

Got it.

Re dromons
My understanding of previous discussion was that we would stack them and then bombard. This should mean no AI attacking our stack keeping dromons safe and by lethal bombardment we avoid occasional losses attacking other seacraft. Pillaging Incans shores would be my next priority after ensuring Incans cannot land on our continent.

I recommend using remainder of our despotic time to rush some dromons in corrupt coastal towns. Agree with selective lib rushes, but not in productive towns lacking food boni to regrow quickly.

Tambo appears under sig flip risk - open up mapstat and yes its huge
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Flip_risk_440AD_SM01.JPG
If we wish to keep it then units should be parked outside. Of course getting rid of Juli will sig reduce this risk. On the subject of Juli I recommend abandoning and build our own town there with a slave on the other tile to prevent AI landing (if we keep Incan town we would have to leave a force outside to retake in event of flip

OUR NORHTERN AREA CAN BE DEVELOPED AS A SCIENCE FARM AS IT HAS MANY FOOD RICH TILES (UNDER MONARCHY) (oops just realised caps lock on :blush: ) whilst being corrupt. It needs an extra town on a desert tile between St P, Samosata and Yakutsk to make use of wheat and cow.


@ c_h I guess everyone is a bit :confused: at finding us in despotic GA, so have not acknowledged how well you did with clearing our continent. The Incans are certainly dangerous with their advanced units (and will be more so with crusaders) and GLH allowing landings from hidden sea tiles.

Goz should be able to sack Juli early in his turnset. I'd also recommend rebuilding there, then just park a unit on the other tile and it's ours till marines. (Though I don't see the game lasting quite that long.)

Keeping up the output of dromons should mean that it won't matter how tough the units are that the Inca load in their ships. Ya ain't that tough from the bottom of the ocean. :devil:

Basically, I'm agreeing with Andronicus's analysis above, though I'd still put emphasis on using our dromons to pillage. If we sink enough ships, the AI will eventually give up and stop sending them out. Then we can burn their shores at will. I'm looking forward to it.

Sorry for the delay, I got totally swamped here.

Pre-turn - I'm a bit confused. Our cores are not even half developed and no workers in sight? We have 11 native workers and around 20 slaves for 30+ towns, which are spread out as well. We need more workers, something like 20 more would do, so we can improve our core(s).

Switch and swap stuff in cities, always try to get max food out of corrupt towns.

Our city-planning is out of whack, we'll need to plop down some towns in squeeze mode later, but that's not a great concern right now. ICS is only good in a diff government. The problem is that our empire is way too stretched out for our resources. Luckily we have some 20 fast units that can intercept here and there.

The lack of workers makes me change my mind and I will get out at least 10 during my turns.

I won't type down every unit we build from now on, only buildings.

With Currency in 3t, we might as well start some markets too and I will whip some stuff out of corrupt cities.

450AD - Nicaea build library.

Sink a galley. Then take out Juli, losing a horse:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM_Juli.jpg

Raze the city and get 4 slaves.

460AD - Adri library.

470AD - We learn Currency -> Cobstruction in 4t.

Caesarea lib -> market.

Sink incan galley.

480AD - Varna court -> lib
Trebizond lib -> market

490AD - Inca drop off a couple of MI's. Army takes care of the first and the elite archer:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM_leader.jpg

What to do with the leader? HE or another army? I decide on army, we will need an AC-army at home.

4 dromons are ready to go overseas to wreak havok.

500AD - Smyrna build court -> lib.

510AD - We learn Construction and get Engineering as freebie -> Feudalism, in 5t.

Inca drop off LB and knight, our new AC-army takes care of that.

Dromons fail to burn a single tile.

520AD - Not much.

530AD - Varna lib -> market.

540AD - Con market -> lib.
Chalcedon market -> aqueduct.

Constantinople founded.

Again our lousy dromons miss.

550AD - We learn Feudalism -> Invention in 7t.

Adri court -> aqueduct
Nicaea market -> horse
Smyrna lib -> market

A second stack of 3 dromons goes overseas, they can be joined by a couple more in a turn.

GA is over, we need to switch gov.

I had to rush through this so next player can sort out builds and stuff. :)

Progress! We're not in the AA any more!

What's up with the lack of firepower with our dromons? :hmm: Again, I'd say that the next leader (and we will get one) should form a one unit army and be shipped overseas with another shipload of two units to form a pillaging army for Incaland. Even if the dromons don't burn the coast, a three unit horse or AC army would have the mobility to sack multiple tiles per turn. I recommend this course of action highly.

Agree also that some serious micromanagement at home is a good idea. Of course, if the next player has to sit through a bunch of turns of anarchy, then there's really not that much micromanagement to do. Do we want to wait until after we get Invention, or just suck it up now?

Leaving Moscow open seems to be a magnet for the Incan landings, so maybe leaving it open could at least increase our odds of knowing where they're going to come visit.

Looks like Spain and Korea don't feel like testing their luck with us either.

Anyway, good set, goz! :thumbsup:

The roster is:

goz - second leader = AC army
Andronicus - UP!
markh - ON DECK
SimpleMonkey - invited Spain and Korea to join the party
classical hero - started our GA and got us our continent back

Great news about the leader

I agree with second army (and more mobile AC one at that) for home continent. Next ones definitely for pillaging.

I think we should revolt ASAP and get working on our core. Will try to belt out a heap more workers :D - I LIKE workers

Might be a day or 2 before I can take this - is that OK?

Might be a day or 2 before I can take this - is that OK?

Fine with me. This isn't the fastest paced game ever. If it's going to be more than a few days we can do a swap.

In other words, fire at will. :D

Hey- why haven't you built Heroic Epic yet? :confused: Your army has been victorius many times. Getting more armies (and the Pentagon after you get your next one :D) would be a good idea, and Heroic Epic would speed this up. So why not?

Haven't gotten around to it, I suppose. Figure that with this kind of game we'll be fighting all the time, so leaders appear pretty regularly whether we have the HE or not. Building units and necessary improvements have been a priority, not major construction projects. But I wouldn't object if we got ourselves a small wonder built pretty soon.

Figure that with this kind of game we'll be fighting all the time, so leaders appear pretty regularly whether we have the HE or not.

Yes, but the more, the better, :mischief: and you might want to keep an army or two at home in case the AI stops being stupid :crazyeye: And like I said, Pentagon would be good too... maybe you could use a leader or two on these small wonders... :mischief: Anyway, keep up the good work! :goodjob:

It was a tough choice between another army or HE, but with MI's and knights coming, we need some tough stuff at home. Archers and horsemen won't last long.

If I were to send over an one-unit AC army with some more to fill in, it would be eaten alive. That plus we would lose firepower back home, all I was building was workers and buildings. :) We will ge more leaders.

If I were to send over an one-unit AC army with some more to fill in, it would be eaten alive.

As far as I remember, the AI won't attack an army at full health, even if the AI has enough firepower to blow that army to splinters. The exception is if that army is fortified in a city that the AI has decided to attack. Then they'll take it on. But if we send over an army -- even with just one unit in it -- and then load the other two units after it lands, the AI will ignore it completely. We just can't attack anything with it.

In Own9, the forerunner to this game, the AI kept walking right past our two spear army and let it tear up roads endlessly. We could get away with it again. Hey, it's not my fault that that AI is so dumb. :lol:

Sorry for the delay folks - 3 SGs at once :rolleyes:

The good news is that I've completed my turns in the other ones and will play this one today :D

We did get our first leader early, then seemed to have a lot of elite victories before next leader.
I'm no huge fan of HE.
In AW leaders tend to come quite reguarly.
I've read the increased odds but that doesnt often appear to fit with what happens (maybe its just me).
HE is nice to have if no pressing need for immediate armies, but at present I think we still need a couple of further armies.
Our home continent is large and 2 AC armies to defend west and north with almost obsolete archer army helping out closer to our core would leave us secure, then next army (or 2) could be pillagers. Pentagon is a must at some stage - just not yet.
We have many infrastructure builds due so handbuilding these small wonders not yet a good option

So to summarise my thoughts
Next leader - 2nd AC army, then 1 or 2 pillaging armies, then pentagon, then HE - what do others think?

My priorities for this turn
GA ends next turn -> whip where appropriate and revolt to monarchy ASAP
Dromons, workers, few more units then infrastructure
Research ? -> cavs

Agree with priorities for leader tasks and in general. Many many dromons can keep our shores safe. Cavs are a ways away, but I see no reason not to beeline for them. We don't need Astronomy to get across the big waters.

In Own9, the forerunner to this game, the AI kept walking right past our two spear army and let it tear up roads endlessly. We could get away with it again. Hey, it's not my fault that that AI is so dumb. :lol:

Yeah, the AI is unimagineably stupid, even on high difficulty levels. It's really weird, but you gotta laugh at it! :lol: And Adronicus is right, you don't need Pent and HE right now, but getting them later would be good, after you start putting the hurt on the Inca... :mischief:

As far as I remember, the AI won't attack an army at full health, even if the AI has enough firepower to blow that army to splinters.

Don't trust that thought for a second, I've seen the difference more than once. IF the AI "thinks" they have superior firepower, they can/will attack.

I loaded an one-unit army once (horses) with support. The support was something like 3 spears, 5 swords, 5 archers and a dozen horses and a settler.

They got killed like nothing. Only because the AI had cavs and muskets. I can't tell how it works, but I think the AI take a chance when they have:

A - Stronger units

together with

B - More units

Calculation, yeah right. Even I understand when I'm over powered. Sometimes the AI makes that choice.

If the AI is at war with someone else we would stand a better chance of unloading a one-unit army, but we can't know that. If not, sometimes the AI throw everything they have against a "smaller" force.

So that's a myth. And also the reason why I didn't want to try it.

When we have a force containing of 2-3 dozen strong invaders, then I would be feeling safe.

Btw, scoutsout mentioned something back at page 3 or something. Give me 20 dromons, 39 decent troops and one settler, I'll make you a beachhead. :lol:

But I understand your reasoning, I don't just to be the one wasting an army.

For the game:

I didn't have time to do much during my turns, but we need to finish infra. Then we need to sort out the map and dots. I do that after Andronicus's turns, since we will be in a new gov and we can start ICS-ing.

All corrupt towns has to go on food and food only as priority. These extra citizens of course will become our power in research (or sometimes gold-hoarders)

My theory is, any town that can't produce at least 2 shields has to become specialist towns. The more towns we can get to pop 6 the better, so the map and dots has to be carefully planned. Fishing villages is another good strategy, we just build harbors and get pop up.

I think next leader should rush HE, normally I don't like it, but this is AW. 1/16 sounds better than 1/32 to get a new leader and we can afford heaps of armies with all our cities.

If you all prepare for the beach-head theory, I support it fully, of course. :lol: I think it's quite doable already in the next few turnsets, IF our silly dromons can cut roads on the tip of the Incan landmass. The enemy won't reach us easily.

I'm wondering if the AI didn't attack the support units in your one-unit army stack, rather than the army itself, and the army just got in the way. :hmm: Regardless, the beachhead is gonna matter a lot. I'm thinking of the landing technique that Handy used in the Theodora's Excellent AW Sid Adventure. Cut roads with the dromons in hill territory, land stack that includes settler and a unit to be a sacrifice for shields to rush a wall, land on turn one, build city on turn two, rush walls that pop up on turn three, then let the AI throw itself against a serious defender stack and generate a leader defensively. Could work, eh?

Turns played report to come soon

Iron mountain successfully pillaged, iron hill - musket fortified there unable to pillage terrain
Also Incans fortified at choke which I tried to pillage to disrupt trade rtoutes and unit passage
Pillaging only hitting about 1 in 10 :(

edit
PS Incans more than happy to attack our dromon stacks from safety of cities

Preturn

Switches
Adri duct -> worker, (then market, duct) as will have happiness issues at size 7 without market
Nicaea -> worker
Trebizond, Prilep, Septum, Vlad, Yaraslavl, Ohrid, Ani -> court (after calculating which towns in monarchy can get to less than 60% corruption with court) Respective corruption before and after court for these are T 23->15, P 46->33, S 48->33, V 67->48, Y 69->48, O 81->55, A 88->58. I anticipate more corrupt towns being science farms, at least until communism
Edessa treb -> dromon

Whip
dromon in Amorium
settler in Bryansk
court in Brusa

Sell
Rax in Moscow and St P (these will remain 90% corrupt)

IT
Bryansk settler -> worker
Nicaea worker -> HM
Amorium dromon -> dromon
Brusa court -> lib

1) 560AD
dromons bombard Incan galley (1-0)
pillaging dromons go 0/4 :(
whip dromon Inca Stinka
whip to 20 shields then switch back to dromon in sev other corrupt towns
REVOLT -> 6 turns anarchy

IT
Inca Stinka dromon -> dromon
Trebizond court -> market

2) 570AD
pillaging dromons go 1/7 - I was starting to think this bombarding terrain was broken
Andrianopole settled -> worker
Incan galley en route to Juli ruins bombarded to 2/4 (settler/musket seen boarding)

IT
settler / musket land on ex Juli site
Bryansk worker -> worker (produced by chop)

3) 580AD
Sink Incan galley (2-0)
Sink Spanish galley (3-0), 2nd one redlined
New Constantinople settled -> worker
Pillagers go 0/4

IT Spanish request audience - tell em to go jump, better still send their laden galleys our way :mischief:
Spanish redlined galley hustles home, replaced by fresh fodder

4) 590AD
dromons redline musket at exJuli, eSw d musket (4-0) -> 2 slaves
- leave slaves fortified on island to prevent Incan landings until ready to settle it ourselves
Spanish galley sunk (5-0)
pillagers go 0/4 :mad:

5) 600AD
pillagers 1/7

6) 610AD
pillagers go 2/9 this time :bounce:

IT
emerge into monarchy

7) 620AD
major MM resetting all towns for monarchy
all corrupt towns set to max food, hire scientist rather than use <2 food tile
pillagers go 2/10 including iron mountain :dance:

IT
Moscow worker -> worker
Adri worker -> market
Sardica court -> market

8) 630AD
pillagers 1/10

IT
galley attacks dromon stack (6-0)
Con lib -> heroic epic (this could be switched to settler if prefer as Con at max size for happiness)
Nicaea HM -> duct
Caesarea market -> pike
Nicomedia worker -> worker
Incans complete GLib at Ollantaytambo (just across the sea from us :mischief: )

9) 640AD
pillage 1/10

IT
Another attack on dromon stack, win one, lose one (7-1)
- now have sev injured dromons so need return home

10) 650AD
pillage 0/10 :gripe:

Remember that a one-unit army is like a redlined three-unit army, which they're willing to attack. The reason they don't attack full-strength armies is not because it's a full-strength army, but because they think they're going to lose if they attack.

Dromons
This bombarding terrain thingy isnt working too well.
At current rate Incans can reimprove faster than we can pillage (well re-roading the iron may take a might longer).
The AI hasnt been too dumb - it has twice bombarded dromons with trebs when they parked next to cities. Also have been prepared to attack dromon stack.
Despite bombardment giving a first free shot, we are getting weakened and will need to return home to heal.

What dromons are very effective at is dealing with attempted landings - we rule the seas and are sending any trespassing galleys to wateryu graves. This does have the unwanted side effect of no fodder for our elite units to promote on.

What we need is a beach-head to create a killing zone and then can form armies to go pillage.
A possible site is the hill 6SW of Ollantaytambo.
It has a city N/NW of it which would need to be razed to avoid flips.
It has disadvantage of mountain adjacent allowing Incans to safely park there.
Would require a sig force of muskets (? 20) with settler and slave for rushing walls.
Would want to do this before Incans have cavalry.

edit - attached screenie - pink dot is proposed beach-head site, yellow dot existing Incan city

we need to finish infra. Then we need to sort out the map and dots. I do that after Andronicus's turns, since we will be in a new gov and we can start ICS-ing.
still more infra to do, have also been pushing out more workers as much improving required particuarly in vicinity of our FP city. Priority for ICSing must be food rich regions - ie northen grasslands and eastern swampland (after clearing) although some of these tiles will be used by

All corrupt towns has to go on food and food only as priority. These extra citizens of course will become our power in research (or sometimes gold-hoarders)
Agree

My theory is, any town that can't produce at least 2 shields has to become specialist towns. The more towns we can get to pop 6 the better, so the map and dots has to be carefully planned. Fishing villages is another good strategy, we just build harbors and get pop up.
Your 2 shields theory and my <60% corruption theory work out similar. In my analysis all north of Naissus or NW of Dyrrachium would be excluded from infrastructure builds and support as many scientists as poss. Some towns have no food to grow past size 2 (eg Tambocchocha where i hired a scientist at size 1) With a harbour it could grow larger but would not make more commerce nor producution and would have to pay for harbour.

I think next leader should rush HE, normally I don't like it, but this is AW. 1/16 sounds better than 1/32 to get a new leader and we can afford heaps of armies with all our cities.
Doesnt look likely we will get more leaders at present so buildingh HE in Con is option - completes in 16 turns

If you all prepare for the beach-head theory, I support it fully, of course. :lol: I think it's quite doable already in the next few turnsets, IF our silly dromons can cut roads on the tip of the Incan landmass. The enemy won't reach us easily.
Unfortunately our dromons have not been very potent. My thought is preparing to land with muskets - currently 3 turns from invention, so perhaps a landing in 15 turns may be appropriate timing

City plans
sev borderline core towns require comment
Ani - appears doubtful for useful city, but with court and mined horse hill it can build harbour allowing growth to size 6 and a relatively high commerce town
Naissus - I contemplated abandoning this site (initially settled to grab gems) - it now crowds less corrupt towns to the south. I now think I should have abandoned it - switching now to settler only wastes 3 shields, then can build another settler with no growth allowing option of abandoning
Ankyra - a borderline case as court only gets it to 65% corruption - not worthwhile IMO - let adjacent towns Septum and Yaraslavl use the prime tiles
Varna - badly in need of improving tiles

The roster is:

goz - second leader = AC army
Andronicus - Crowned Theodora queen
markh - UP
SimpleMonkey - ON DECK
classical hero - started our GA and got us our continent back

I got it, but have no time now to read all the good stuff. I will get to it tomorrow.

Good job, Andronicus! You got a lot done for 6 turns of anarchy. :hatsoff:

Agree with using Naissus to pop one settler and then abaondon to get another. I still haven't got that trick down, so seeing done right will be instructive.

I believe that the pink dot would be a good beach head. It has more approaches than the spit of land where Vitcos is, but the hills and mountain are a big help. I'd hate to defend on grasslands. If we park some defenders on that mountain we can hold it. Suggest we concentrate dromons on cutting all roads to that landing point. (I'm hoping their aim will improve. :rolleyes: ) The question is, is Inca Dude going to take more than 15 turns to get cavs? If he is, then we're in good shape. Save money if we can to upgrade some pikes.

I'd say just handbuild HE in Con right now. If it's only 16 turns that's not terrible.

Basically, I'm just agreeing with all of the above.

Turns played report to come soon

Iron mountain successfully pillaged, iron hill - musket fortified there unable to pillage terrain
Also Incans fortified at choke which I tried to pillage to disrupt trade rtoutes and unit passage
Pillaging only hitting about 1 in 10 :(

edit
PS Incans more than happy to attack our dromon stacks from safety of cities
It looks like the RNG gods favor you no more :( (either that or the guys who shoot their cannons can't hit the side of a barn :lol: ) I guess being in anarchy with an out-of-control country leaves no citizens to worship them, which you need to get luck from them. Hopefully, your dromons will be more lucky next turnset. Now that Queen Theo's back on the throne, she can order her citizens to worship the RNG gods again. :queen: :worship: But that might not save you from the Incan's wrath. If they manage to get tanks, hope that spearman can actually beat them. :spear:

Overall strategy

Koreans are weak compared to us
Spain are average and behind in tech
Incans are the runaway AI and our only challenge

We need to hurt Incans before they get cavs and rifles
I'm wondering if possibly only a dozen pikes may be enough at beach-head. It will be maybe 15 turns till we have muskets then have to build / upgrade and ship them over. Meanwhile Incans get stronger. Pikes much cheaper - we probably have enough already (with a few spear upgrades) to ship across with all northern cats and a settler and a few slaves. With all our northern dromons we should be able to drop off 20 or more units on D-day with city built next turn and rush walls with slave. If we survive those first 2 turns we will be set - cats and dromons can bombard and we can shift a whole lot of AC over to take out relined units and hopefully promote. Once we have a leader an AC army combined with cats (could be upgraded to trebs once rax rushed) should ensure we start razing cities.
Meanwhile research to cavs, switch off reseach to pay for massive horse -> upgrade having built maybe 50 horse in interim
If we can raze all cities on Incan eastern land (leaving Ollyamtambo till last) we can then get the GLib with Incans weakened the game would be in the bag.

Well lots of ifs ... any thoughts

I would go with the pikes. Landing on a hill will help a lot and as the Incan land is not railed we might not face too many units on the landing. After the city is beachhead is founded and the pikes fortified they have a decent defensive value. If we can ensure sufficient reinforcement it should be possible to hold the beachhead.

The two tough parts of this plan are having enough pikes and dromons to ships them over all at once, and that it takes two turns for us to move the dromons into position for landing, giving Inca enough time to move a sizable counterattack into position. We gotta have those roads cut to slow them down.

As a side note, do disbanded slaves actually add shields? I thought only native workers (ones you've actually invested shields in) give shields back. I'd bring along a sacrificial warrior for the disband help in rushing walls for our beach head.

Dromons can also bombard from inside a coastal city, giving us plenty of return fire potential. :)

My thoughts for dotmap to ICS the northern food rich grasslands and the eastern swamp after clearing

Dark blue dot is doubtful - will probably crowd a core city Ohrid (is it really that 'orrid close to the marsh lands?)

Red arrows indicate 3 towns worth relocating - Naissus as previously mentioned crowds our core, whilst Yakutsk and Samosata relocations would allow an extra science city

Black line is my suggestion for edge of core. Inside this border towns are improved to maximise production as well as size, but outside this only terrain improvement required is irrigation of tiles already at least 2 food (ie grass, floodplains, oasis etc).

ICSing the far west is a waste at present as these towns would not be able to support more than 1 scientist until railroads

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/650AD_dotmap.JPG

The two tough parts of this plan are having enough pikes and dromons to ships them over all at once, and that it takes two turns for us to move the dromons into position for landing, giving Inca enough time to move a sizable counterattack into position. We gotta have those roads cut to slow them down.

As a side note, do disbanded slaves actually add shields? I thought only native workers (ones you've actually invested shields in) give shields back. I'd bring along a sacrificial warrior for the disband help in rushing walls for our beach head.

Dromons can also bombard from inside a coastal city, giving us plenty of return fire potential. :)

We already have enough dromons - there are 5 off Machu Pitchu and 5 on our northern shore - thse 10 could drop off 20 units in 6 turns if the units are ready at Tambococcha in 5 turns time.
We have 7 cats in vicinity of Tambo, its getting the settler and pikes or spears which will take longer. We could steal 3 vet spears from northern towns to supplement 9 pikes which could be obtained by upgrading spears in our core immediately. These would then take up to 10 turns to get to Tambo (poss less if use dromons to help ferry. The settler can come from Naissus next turn by switching to settler before ending preturn.
Extra dromons will be built in Krasnoyarsk, Orenbyrg and Yakutsk in 7 turns - the further away ones could be rushed earlier to add extra units (for disbanding unit - slave will work, but warrior may be better - and some AC to counter attack - and hopefully generate leaders)
At earliest could land in maybe 10 or 11 turns

Dromons need to load D-day -1 and move 2 west of Tambo. From there on D-day they move 4NW and drop off on beach-head site with no warning for Incans

Ohrid should have enough food from the flood plain tiles that we can afford to put in the blue dot city. However, if we're building infrastructure right now, then we're going to have to manage our overseas invasion with what we have on hand. That means upgrading all our spears and leaving a light defense on our mainland. That's okay if our dromons keep sinking everything before it lands. markh is going to have to do some fancy management to pull this off. Good thing we don't need troops for MP duty anymore. Heh.

Good thing we don't need troops for MP duty anymore. Heh.

Am I missing something ? In monarchy MP-duty makes the people happier. Republic is MP-free.

Am I missing something ? In monarchy MP-duty makes the people happier. Republic is MP-free.

Doh! :cringe: Monarchy gives you better MP effects -- 3 MP's per city (or is it four?) rather than two. Have I even played this game before??? :crazyeye:

I played my ten, but it was quite uneventful. Some infra completed. I upgraded all vet spears to pikes and moved them NE. I think we have about 15 pikes now. Beside that it was just worker moves and some micromanaging. Gunpowder is due in 3.

Dont have time for detailed post as at work now, but some comments

We have clown in corrupt town (K..something I think) -> fire em and hire 2 scientists
Corrupt towns are working 0 food tiles (St P, Moscow & Naissus) -> hire scientist instead
Corrupt towns using 1 food tiles (Constantinople, Nicomedia, Bryansk, Yakutsk) -> ditto
Sanosota wasting food , can hire scientist and still grow in 1

In core we have towns bulging past happiness limits -> suggest
- give 1 of Con's food boni tiles to another city
- 2 scientists in Ohrid rather than 1 clown, doesnt req further growth
- temporarily mine plains around Taormina, Smyrna, Heraclea & Trebizond to speed court / market builds
- can grow Adri if builds duct - building settler and taking down to size 4 is waste of productive town with market, lib and rax - better taking settlers off corrupt towns or cities past happiness max (eg Con after HE build)
- mp will help out happiness issues - my suggestion is building HM which can be moved around for wherever mp required and can later be upgraded to cavs
Suggest give best tiles to core towns rather than corrupt towns eg Yaraslvl could use mBG currently being wasted on A... something (cant read the notes I've scribbled down)
Brusa will have happiness problems when grows so should build market before duct
Ani req lib as next build so it expands to use whale, after this should follow harbour and market by which stage it should be good commerce town

With above scientists can get gunpowder in 3 @ +53gpt, or in 2 @ -9gpt


Re Incan invasion
Have 13 dromons avail in our north (not counting ones on north shore of Inca)
Req
7 cats - avail in vicinity
11 pikes able to board in 4 turns
asettler could be rushed in 2 turns @ Bryansk allowing boarding in 4 turns if we research with 50gpt surplus
add some AC and units to disband for rushing walls and rax and we are ready to land in 5 turns (board in 4 turns moving dromons 2W of Tambo)
how about it?

If we rush a rax in Tambo.... we could upgrade some pikes to muskets before shipment, given we have salpeter.

If we rush a rax in Tambo.... we could upgrade some pikes to muskets before shipment, given we have salpeter.
Cant afford settler rush / rax rush, musket upgrades in next 4 turns and still afford walls rush in beach-head following turn then rax rush the turn after. Pike -> musket upgrade is quite expensive for upping defence from 3 to 4.
If we do this it will put D-day back a few turns (? 5 or 6) - may be worth delaying, I'm unsure.
Lets wait and see that we have salt before spending money on a rax in Tambo first.

I am not sure whether 11 pikes will be enough. I am not so experienced on deity.
BTW, Andronicus did you notice massive troops movement of the Incas SW during your turns. I am suspecting that they are at war with someone. During my ten they moved a lot of troops SW and almost none towards us, so maybe we should try asap.

I am not sure whether 11 pikes will be enough. I am not so experienced on deity.
BTW, Andronicus did you notice massive troops movement of the Incas SW during your turns. I am suspecting that they are at war with someone. During my ten they moved a lot of troops SW and almost none towards us, so maybe we should try asap.
Yeah, lots of knights were passing through the choke - I think its the koreans next door to them - Korea are weak compared to us so may be on the end of a beating from Incans - all the more reason to land sooner than later.

If Incan knights are in vicinity of the korean territory we have seen, then it must take them at least 10 turns (maybe 15 ?) to get back to our beach- head. If they eliminate Korea they will possibly start heading back, but will definitely stop sending more units over. If we can cause Incans to fight on 2 fronts we should have big advantage.

I'll take a look at the save and read all the strategy notes twice more and then propose a plan. I was thinking that 11 pikes would not do the job, but if Inca dude has pulled his troops away on another mission, we might be able to pull it off.

Count this as a got it.

lurkers waiting for markh and Andro to post turn report- why haven't they? :(

lurkers waiting for markh and Andro to post turn report- why haven't they? :(
Well mine's in post 168 - do you want more ? :eek:

I'm gonna have to skip my turn or swap with C_H. This frustrates me mightily, but I'm having problems with my C3C disc and it's become hideously unstable. I've been spending much of today uninstalling and reinstalling, trying to get it to play right, and it's still sketchy and won't read most saves. :wallbash: I've finally given in and bought a copy of Civ III complete to replace the separate discs I already own and don't seem to want to get along with each other anymore. Should be here next week on Mon or Tues, but till then I have to sit back and watch.

C-H, you're up! Take a look at the save -- something I'm having a hard time doing -- and let us know what you think about D-Day. If we time it right, we can hit Inca dude with the majority of his forces down in Korea and get a nice beachhead. Time it wrong and we lose the biggest chunk of our defenders to no gain.

I have it. Will ply very soon.

Well mine's in post 168 - do you want more ? :eek:
Oh, right. Something made me think otherwise, or maybe my mind was a little boggled :crazyeye: But then why hasn't markh?? he finished his turnset on thursday- but no turn report yet.

Preturn. Nothing. Everything looks to shape for me.

IBT. We lose a city to disorder. [pissed]

Turn one. We do some bombardment with little effect. I set research all the way to Military Tradition so that we can get Calvaries.. I start to manoever troops so they are redy fo DDy.

IBT. Nothing

Turn two. We need more troops if our invasion is going to sucessful. We need more bombarding troops and we need better attackers before we can get to the Incans. So far we do not have the right troops to do any damage. We must raze every city we take since their Culture is better than ours. We build a settler and it is going to where the marsh used to be.

IBT. Some Incan ships rare near our shores. It Appears that the Incans are moving there trops back to there core, which is a shame.

Turn Three. I only manage to kill two and one is still there.

IBT. More Caravels come into our territory and the injured Galley goes back home.

Turn Four. We have gunpowder and we have saltpeter. They all are in the former Russian territories. We have three sources available to us. One is outside of our territory.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn Five. We kill a Korean Galley in Incan waters via bombarment. I build New Caesarea.
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2461/newcaesarea6ln.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

i find a source of Saltpeter for the Incans. I will try and bombard that area so that it is not usefull, but they might have more sources.

IBT. Not much.

Turn Six. I kill two more Caravels by Bombardment.

IBT. More ships in our area.

Turn Seven. We build the heroic Epic.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1297/heroicepic7zz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I kill three caravels.

IBT. More Caravel to kill.

Turn Eight. I kill two Caravels.

IBT. Nothing

Turn Nine. We bombard one saltpeter source.

IBT. More troops for the slaughter

Turn Ten. We kill a caravel.

There really is no good spot for a landing because the best spots are near the cultural core and this will be very difficult for us to take since they are the massive culture leaders and also this will mean that we will need to go for their capital and surrounding area for any attack to be succesful and thus we will need multiple landing spos just for this to have any chance of survivine=g

Wow! You destroyed 10+ Caravels by bombarding them with dromons! :goodjob: May the RNG be with you.

I'm gonna suggest that I keep this game from getting hung up any further and just skip my turn, since I won't have new Civ discs until Tuesday (likely). :(

The roster is:

goz - UP!
Andronicus - ON DECK
markh - built badly needed infra
SimpleMonkey - on leave due to technical difficulties
classical hero - fought Midway instead of Normandy

I got a new job and can't play until Friday, my time.

I believe that means we'll skip to Andronicus, unless he won't get to it until tomorrow or later, in which case I should be back up and running.

Was that sufficiently confusing? :crazyeye:

I believe that means we'll skip to Andronicus, unless he won't get to it until tomorrow or later, in which case I should be back up and running.

Was that sufficiently confusing? :crazyeye:

what about markh (who never posted his last turn report...)? And yes, it was sufficiently confusing.

what about markh (who never posted his last turn report...)?

I posted, but actually there was nothing to report. As far as I can remember I sank 3 or 4 galleys. More didn't show up. All the rest were worker moves which would have been quite boring to read for the lurkers.;)

got it
have played a couple of turns

I posted a plan for a science farm in our north detailing which areas should only be irrigated. There has been no comment so I presume no-one disageed.
Yet when I open thre save I find workers in our far north roading mountains and mining deserts. Why? Unless we revolt to commie these towns will never get more than 1 shield and 1 commerce but with max food they can support lots of scientists. Many towns in the north have clowns and are working mountains, deseats or hills. I was able to hire an extra 36 (I think from memory) scientists - thats an extra 105 science per turn! By irrigating fully and growing to max scientist support I expect to be able to support another 30 -50.

Re strategy
I note some reluctance to start beach head
Incans have metallurgy at start of turn, they may have cavs before I finish

My plan is to est beach head as soon as practical and absorb the Incans, our main risk is culture

By pushing science I hope we can get to cavs soon then switch off science and upgrade horsemen (are producing lots currently).
Science can be regained after capturing GLib city
I worry we may be fighting rifles - will need cannons for support in razing cities

Any comments?

What does the upgrade from pikes to muskets cost ? Muskets + cats might do the job in the beginning. If we land 20 - 25 muskets with cats + a leader we can form an army there and have a safe spot, so maybe we should let some galleys pass our lines to enable us to get this leader.

What does the upgrade from pikes to muskets cost ? Muskets + cats might do the job in the beginning. If we land 20 - 25 muskets with cats + a leader we can form an army there and have a safe spot, so maybe we should let some galleys pass our lines to enable us to get this leader.
not sure of cost, but getting money for this upgrade would involve turning off / down research and hence delaying cavs. I would prefer to research at max to mil trad then turn off research / switch science farm to tax farm until we capture GLib.

We have avail a few muskets plus a doz pikes (from memory) plus about 7 cats and 3 or 4 trebs.
My thought is to take this force over first then return for ACs

Agree with letting some boats pass our lines - there are currently too many craft to successfully bombard all so I have (just) decided to let Spanish land since they have more ancient units. It is likely a few Incan caravels will get through (they have been approaching from the west as well as north and we may have difficulty if they coordinate strikes from north, east and west)

We were mining mountains up north??? :confused: This is not so good. They didn't get automated did they? :eek:

I agreed with Andronicus's science farm plans for the north, including the city moves. Agree also to research full speed till cavs and then shut it off for a while. If this game lasts long enough for us to want Steam Power, I'd be surprised.

BTW, I wouldn't count on us getting too much out of the GLib. Inca Dude appears to be well ahead of the pack. We might pick up some techs depending on what Korea knows, but in my experience, Korea is one of the less stellar Scientific civs. Plus they've apparently been getting some serious beatings from the Inca.

Agree also with letting some Spanish galleys through for leader farming. I'd still be using our dromons to try to pillage Inca Dude's shores, however modest our success has been on that front, sink all his caravels, and get ready for D-Day. To that end, let's pump out muskets, rather than worrying about upgrading our pikes (or spears :crazyeye: ).

The re-revised roster is:

goz - skipped due to RL work
Andronicus - PLAYING!
markh - ON DECK
SimpleMonkey - on leave due to technical difficulties, should be good to go soon
classical hero - fought Midway instead of Normandy

To that end, let's pump out muskets, rather than worrying about upgrading our pikes (or spears :crazyeye: ).

Then don't upgrade the spears, and use them against Inca dude's tanks!:lol: :lol: :lol: :rotfl: :spear: :spear:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Theodora_of_the_Byzantines,_950_AD.SAV

Preturn

Note salt by proposed beach head. Propose we let Incans connect it as they have other salt sites and if we rush a rax in Beach head it could allow us to upgrade there

Workers in corrupt north are roading mountain by Bryansk and mining desert salt as well as roading forests and hills :nono: . These areas will not produce any extra commerce nor shields unless we are commie (a long way off) meanwhile there are many grass tiles needing irrigation to support more scientists (eg Orenburg cannot access a irrigated grass tile).
Worker on tundra west of Ani - what is it doing? This tile is not in our cultural borders nor will it ever be worked unless we put a town on that tundra :confused:
I asign priority worker tasks to irrigating grass tiles for science farms and mining plains tiles in core cities needing more shields to build infrastructure before able to grow.

Science farm towns are in disarray - they are hiring clowns (St P 3 clowns -> 4 scientists), wasting surplus food (Kras. has 7 surplus food not able to use - can hire 4 scientists), working 0 or 1 food tiles (should only work 3 or more food tiles).
Bryansk is building market - in totally corrupt town where scientists will prevent happiness issues - why? - switched to settler ( I put many builds to settlers as req further towns for science farm and unit support - once we have enough they can switch to trebs).
Similarly Moscow is building court (this one is possibly borderline as court could get 2spt and 2 commerce per turn, but I prefer 2-3 scientists and court will take 78 turns unless we rush it and IMO there are better things to spend our pennies on)

Spent 2 hours on MM (OK who's obsessive compulsive then? :crazyeye: )

IT
Yaraslavl court -> market
Smyrna market -> duct
Sardica lib -> treb
Vidin treb -> treb

1) 860AD
Destroy 1 Incan caravel (1-0)
Shuffling units for mp allows lux to come down to 0%

IT
Heraclea court -> market
Incans build Copernicus

2) 870AD
more MM
start roading gem mountain for when Naissus abandoned (in 9 turns)

IT
Chemistry -> Metallurgy
Con settler -> HM
Caesarea HM -> musket

3) 880AD
sink Incan galley and caravel (galley came from west) (3-0)

IT
Varna HM ->HM

4) 890AD
New Nicaea in old swampland
Sink 2 Incan caraverls (5-0)

IT
Red lined Korean galley sinks our 4/4 dromon in a stack??? :ack: (5-1)
Adri duct -> musket
Dyracchium lib -> market
Krasnorask settler -> lib (cultural pressure from across the straight)
Sardica treb -> treb

5) 900AD
Sink that Korean galley (6-1)
Settler boards so invasion force ready (D-day minus 2)
Let a Spanish galley through - need to give our home defence something to do and Spanish are backward - lack invention
Our galleys find why Spanish are backward - they are isolated on their own island

IT
Con HM -> HM
Nicaea musket -> HM
Caesarea HM -> HM

6) 910AD
New Varna settled ICS in old swamp region
Invasion fleet sets forth (D-day minus 1)

IT
Inca Stinka dromon -> dromon
Chalcedon court -> musket
Amorium dromon -> dromon
Brusa market -> duct
New Constantinople settler -> dromon

7) 920AD
The landing - 36 units ready for Beach head - not only will it have salt, but it will also have spices (once Tiwanaku razed that is)
With all 18 dromons involved in the landing 3 Spanish galleys and 1 Incan caravel slip through
New Smyrna settled in old swamp
Workers joined to new science cities to speed growth and hiring of scientists (have been doing this all along where there are unused food bonus tiles)
Several size 6 towns waiting for ducts have been mined to starve a bit (and build duct sooner), can then be re-irrigated to grow (eg Smyrna)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/930AD_Invasion_force.JPG

IT
Metallurgy (SoZ obsolete) -> Military Tradition
Varna HM -> HM
Taormina court -> market
Spanish land sword / archer adj New Andronopole

8) 930AD
Beach Head settled - rush walls
Move stack of pikes, swords, cats and trebs onto hill adj Tiwanaka (ACs and muskets remain in Beach Head)
Sink Incan galley (7-1)
vAC d Sw, AC Army disposes of archer (9-1)

IT
Spanish land archer knight same place as before
Incans land LB and 2 cavs just north New Andronopole
Con HM -> musket (all musket builds now are pre builds for cavs - due in 6)
Septum market ->duct
Caesrea HM -> musket
Trebizond duct -> rax
Beach Head walls -> lib (I am more concerned at losing this city to flip)

9) 940AD
@ Tiwanaka cats and trebs go 5/11 - only 3 muskets, vAC loses 3/4 musk, vAC loses vCav, vAC d 2/4 musk, eSw d 2/4 musk -> GML named Incan Doom -> army save for cavs :band: . eSw loses 2/4 musk -> promotes 2/5, eAC d 2/5musk, vAC retreats eMDI, vAC d 3/4cav, vAC d 3/5MDI, eAC d 1/5cav -> we raze Tiwanaka for 8 slaves and 2 cannon (15-4)
On home front AC Army d cav *2, eHM retreats undamaged LB, AC army d knight, vHM d arch, vAC d LB - that was all the units we had that could reach the area (20-4)
Rush lib using up all our gold

IT
Spanish galley going down our west coast (Archer Army is shadowing)
dromons defeat Sp galley and Incan caravel on defence (had weakened both last turn) (22-4)
Incan counter attack : 3 crusaders d pikes, LB d pike, crusader loses to our 4/6AC (23-8)
Pentagon message
Nicaea HM -> musket
Sandica canon -> rax
Beach Head lib -> harbour (next player can decide if want harbour to bring spices home or rax for healing) - ( edit damn - just realised there are ocean tiles so harbour useless - please switch to rax)

10) 950AD
sink Incan caravel and Spanish galley (25-8)
edit - misclicked a sword and sent him to mountain instead of Beach Head :blush:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM01_950AD_Incan_front.JPG

Notes
Chalcedon has scientist to delay musket build - there are 5 or 6 musket builds due in next 5 or 6 turns which are pre builds for cavs. Mil Trad due in 4 turns.
We currently have 25 HM which cost 150g (I think) to upgrade each. We could pump out another 6 or 8 to upgrade, but I think it will be too expensive and take a while to afford all those upgrades even turning our science farm into tax farm.
Some workers have movement left - I leave it for next player to decide - the science cities below size 4 need increasing to size 4 to support 2 scientists - adding native workers allows this to happen quicker and reduces our unit costs. I have mined various core cities to starving to speed production, these will need re-irrigating before they actually starve and further irrigating to allow growth (size 9 or 10 is OK with 0 lux and 3 mp) when ducts and markets complete.
Have tried to get as many core cities at 10 spt - currently 5, but Chalcedon is deliberately being kept lower and Sardica can use Vlad's hill once Vlad completes court.
Ancyra is size 3 and about to starve - it cannot remain size 3 without taking good shields from productive cities - so it must shrink. Since it is going to shrink this turn anyway I have hired 3 scientists there.

Army is in Beach Head unfilled - suggest not safe leaving there as flip risk - keep empty and take to home continent and add a cav when avail, leaving other 2 cavs for when it has been transported back to Incan land.

Stayed up late finishing this - will be going away tomorrow for Easter - in unlikely event this comes around before Wed please skip me

Have fun beating up on those Incans :ar15:

Strategy check - my thoughts, comments appreciated

Science
4 turns to MT, then turn off science until capture GLib at Ollyantaybo (or whatever) - suggets delaying this ASAP - if capital shifts to GLib city and we raze all other cities on that peninsula then Inca dude will have to deal with heaps of corruption
Only reason to turn back on science after GLib capture is if we think we will need RR, arty or commie - I think not unless we have more resistance than I expect
GLib will not give a lot - at present I expect both Incans and Koreans have most medieval techs, but Spain is backward. If Korea is eliminated by Incans then we may only get 3 or 4 techs (I have not seen Spanish caravels so doubt they have astronomy)
If we are confident that we do not require further research after MT then we could sell all libs (other than those req for border expansion). This is my thought but carries a risk that I would prefer not to wear unless everyone else wants to go this way :eek: :scared:

Commerce
Science farm can be changed to tax farm when MT discovered, along with 100% tax rate we should generate good income for
1) HM upgrades
2) shortrushing cavs (ie rushing muskets then switching to 2 turn cav in 10spt cities)

Military
As alluded to I would suggest hitting Inca hard at their core cities once we have a stack of cavs at Beach Head (along with our new soon-to-be-cav Army). Once core gone GLib could be captured and we should be able to slice through remaining Incans and Koreans before unloading on Spanish for rapid conquest there (am I getting ahead of myself?) Do we aim for conquest or domination?

Settlers
- still about 10 sites for ICS towns which will be part of tax farm, only go for those which can access food boni tiles (should have access to 2 irrigated grass supporting 2 specialists at size 4) I was growing these to size 6 and cyclically growing and then starving to hire extra scientist to generate extra science but lots of effort for small extra beakers.
Once sufficient settlers built can switch current builds to ? cannon (not sure what best builds in our corrupt cities will be - thoughts?)

Dromons
- still useful to keep most incursions from our thinly defended homelands - I been slack on pillaging because of transport logistics, but identifying Incan salt and pillaging it would be useful - suggest stacks of 5 dromons should pillage approx in 2 turns

ROSTER
goz - skipped due to RL work
Andronicus - Led D-day invasion and got leader for cav army
markh - UP
SimpleMonkey - ON DECK
classical hero - fought Midway instead of Normandy

Great set, Andronicus :goodjob:

I will take it tonight.

According to the map I can see the Koreans will be gone soon, so GLib will not get us much. Anyway in my set I think my task will be to hold the beach head and to get a good attacking force together for simple monkey.

According to the map I can see the Koreans will be gone soon, so GLib will not get us much. Anyway in my set I think my task will be to hold the beach head and to get a good attacking force together for simple monkey.

Dont forget to get our army to safety - I would not recommend leaving it in Beach Head because of flip risk, it can be brought back over when cavs avail - should be at the front in 7 or 8 turns so you may get to attack with our cav army - enjoy

Dont forget to get our army to safety - I would not recommend leaving it in Beach Head because of flip risk, it can be brought back over when cavs avail - should be at the front in 7 or 8 turns so you may get to attack with our cav army - enjoy

Not to worry, I never leave leaders or armies in cities with flip risk. Only in very special cases. In my games cities tend to always flip, so not an issue for me.:)

Awesome set, Andronicus! :clap: We've got a successful D-Day landing.

Agree with strategy suggestions. I also remember seeing a fort at the thin peninsular neck that separates the two parts of the Inca Dude's kingdom. Taking that from him with lots of bombardment should be quite useful strategically, I think.

Agree also with markh that the Koreans will soon be gone, so GLib will be minimally useful. I'd like to keep research running, but maybe not at breakneck levels, to get us to Nationalism. Yeah, that means a bunch of MA techs, but if we're gonna let Inca Dude live long enough to get rifles (not that I'd like this option), then we need 'em too.

A few more razes and Beach Head should be considerably safer from flip risks.

Go to it, markh! :salute:

Great set, Andronicus :goodjob:

I will take it tonight.

According to the map I can see the Koreans will be gone soon, so GLib will not get us much. Anyway in my set I think my task will be to hold the beach head and to get a good attacking force together for simple monkey.

Yeah- you might even want to raze the GL city if the Koreans have <5 cities left, because Inca will crush them

Hey, what about that swap I asked...it's Friday tomorrow and I see you "skip" me? I never asked for a skip.

Anyways, just love the way Andy takes the game in to control and sort things out. Absolutely fantastic! :)

I got a new job and can't play until Friday, my time.

All corrupt towns has to go on food and food only as priority. These extra citizens of course will become our power in research (or sometimes gold-hoarders)

Normally, I'm known as the MM-dude. But with the stress IRL I didn't have to, and we've found a great successor (and another calculator) within Andy. (Ando?)

I can't say much, maybe I'm skipped and then any of my reasons are futile.

Goz, you can have it if you like. No problem. I will not be able to get to it tonight.

Ok, I have it then.

I'll spend the first hr sorting out Andy's MM-decisions. :lol;

No actually, we're looking as good as I ever wanted. So good job again, Andronicus. :)

goz! Sorry about the misunderstanding. I thought you meant skip when you only meant swap. Silly monkey. :blush: Go ahead and take it, and then markh, and then I'll be up for it.

Pre-turn: Scroll through cities to get an idea what's going on.

Find that Naissus has one shield left to a settler, but it's only pop 1. Swap to cannon and put it back to growth.

Find a few cities that can grow IBT, so MT research in 5t for a moment, but this will be rectified next turn with the extra pop.

Rearrange tiles in Trebizond to get 10 shields, disband warrior, so barracks will complete a turn faster.

Disband horse in Yakutsk to get settler next turn, then spend 56g to rush 2 more settlers.

Move army into dromon for passage home, send 4 dromons to try some bombardment at Ollantaytambo.

Right, now I'm happy to press enter.

960AD - Our sword on a mountain by Beach Head defends against a crusader, then a LB kills him. [1-1]

We build 3 settlers, 2 towns founded immediately.

Find the missing scientists and MT in 3t.

Redline a stack of 3 incans, an elite AC produce this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM-leader.jpg

Build army and fill it with Ac'S, it will be a pillaging unit. Kill the 3 and the LB on the mountain. [5-1]

970AD - Adri musket -> harbor.

Kill a single crusader by BH. Dromons spit fire and destroy some improvements.

Join some workers into cities.

980AD - Army 7/16 defends against cav.

Found a town.

Burn some land and sink an Incan caravel. (does boats count as units?, I keep that separate)
Redline pink musket and LB, kill them. [8-1]

990AD - MT researched :banana: turn off science to gather gold. Put citizens back to work, keep a few as taxmen - income is 210gpt, this can be improved later. Right now I rather focus on pop.

Sardica barracks -> cav

Swap other builds to cavs.

Spain plopped down a town at our SW tundra, archer-army burns it.

Another city is founded.

Ping a stack of 4 incas, jubilations and celebrations [13-1] :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM-leader2.jpg


Send the leader home to build Military Academy. We might not need it, but I like it anyways.

Dromons are lousy, not one hit from over a dozen.

1000AD - Adri harbor -> cav.
Vladivostok court -> barracks.
Smyrna aqueduct -> cav.

We build our first cav in Chalcedon.

Sink 2 pink caravels.

Kill MI [14-1]

AC-army goes out pillaging, rush barracks in Beach Head.

1010AD - Quiet, kill a cav. [15-1]

Found 3 towns.

1020AD - Kill 3 cavs, a LB and a crusader without losses. [20-1]

Load cav into army, it will be in Beach Head next turn.

1030AD - Kill 2 cavs and a crusader. [23-1]

Rush MA in Con with the leader.

1040AD - Nothing of interest, except that we have Military Academy.

1050AC - Kill 2 cavs and a musket [26-1] Sink a pink caravel.

Pillaging mission is going nicely, next turn we will have a cav-army to help out with that as well. :)

I had to rush through the last 5 turns, so the report is a bit short. But not much of interest happened anyways.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM-Inca.jpg

Woot! Two pillaging armies! :woohoo: If we cut off Cuzco we can reduce Inca Dude to just longbows and whatever he can produced locally. As soon as we strip this part of his soon to be ruined empire, I'd suggest dropping an army on the other side of his fortified choke and doing the same there.

Great set, goz! :clap:

This roster shows the order in which everybody played, but we can put it back into its more or less original order for the next go-round.

Andronicus - Led D-day invasion and got leader for cav army
goz - two leaders :dance: and began returning Incaland to nature
markh - UP!
SimpleMonkey - ON DECK
classical hero - fought Midway instead of Normandy

Not just cutting off resources and luxuries, but all their cities will become town (size 1-6). Which means less defensive bonus for the Incan cities. :)

Hmm. From the looks of that map, Korea has one city left. That means the Inca will get them before you can get to the GL city, so raze it. You might also want to check the Victory Status Screen, to see how close the Inca are to domination (If you left that victory on) :mischief:

Great set, goz.:goodjob: I have it and I will play tomorrow at the latest.

0) 1050AD : at Choxorn : we have 42% Inca 40%, domination will not come into play
It is very nice to play after the pros. Just change Con from army to Pentagon. 4-unit armies are quite nice. Still can be changed after my set

IBT : a cav suicides and another one retreats at Beach Head
cavs,a market and a courthouse are finished

1) 1060AD : grrr cav loses against a redlined Incan cav on plains
cav army kills that silly Incan cav
we sink a Spanish galley
our dromons pillage 2 tiles

IBT : two Incan cavs suicide and one retreats at Beach Head, is that all they have to offer ?
a market, a lib and a cav completes

2) 1070AD : a cav loses to a crusader. Is this real ?
A vet Ac kills that pesky crusader and promotes elite.
dromons pillage two tiles

IBT : nothing important: Inca dude just moves units.

3) 1080AD : eAc defeats Incan lb and we have another leader

IBT : our leader generator is killed after a hard fight against an Incan cav

4) 1090AD : we defeat 3 muskets in Cuzco. Next round it will be ours

IBT : Cuzco completes Smiths. If we take it next round and we do not know Economics, what will happen ?

5) 1100AD : ha, ha the Incans have rifles in their cities.
we kill 3 rifles in Cuzco and still they hold. Brave Incans.

IBT : zzzz

6) 1110AD : dromons pillage two tiles
there at least 3 more rifles in Cuzco. Let the armies heal
turn on research again. Monotheism in 4 at +82/turn

IBT : zzzz

7) 1120AD : dromons pillage 3 tiles
let units heal in front of Cuzco, I will get it during my turns

IBT : zzzz

8) 1130AD : we kill another 3 defenders in Cuzco and still there are drafted rifles

IBT : a wounded AC is killed

9) 1140AD : dromons pillage 3 tiles
we take Cuzco, but we withdraw all units for healing. We will not be able to defend it in the IBT

IBZ : the Incans take back Cuzco for the time being
Monotheism is in -> Theology in 4

10) 1150AD : let the armies heal at Cuzco. This game is won. We have three armies at Cuzco and they cannot do anything.

No pictures as nothing is changed,

Manage attachments does not work.

Here it is :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SM_1150_AD.SAV

Awesome, markh! Way to put the hurt on Inca Dude. I very much look forward to picking this one up and trying to live up to all these great turnsets. Would it be possible for you to repost the save? It doesn't appear in your last post. :sad:

Strange. I can download it. Here it is again.

I was not sure whether I should have razed Cuzco. Maybe I am still wonder addicted.:) However we have enough forces there to take it again and burn it if we do not want it.

Got it. Will play today.

0) 1050AD : at Choxorn : we have 42% Inca 40%, domination will not come into play
:dance: and if it does, you're the winner!


2) 1070AD : a cav loses to a crusader. Is this real ?

I once lost a cav to a MdI(when the MdI was attacking)!

5) 1100AD : ha, ha the Incans have rifles in their cities.
we kill 3 rifles in Cuzco and still they hold. Brave Incans.

Rifles? Not good. I guess the Mil. trad. Beeline paid off.

IBZ : the Incans take back Cuzco for the time being

You did IBZ :lol:

Now, for my comments: Raze the GL city. Even if Incas don't beat Korea by that time, You'll only be able to get Chivalry (Which is of no use to you), Printing Press (Also pretty useless), and Education, as education will make the Library obsolete :(

Now, for my comments: Raze the GL city. Even if Incas don't beat Korea by that time, You'll only be able to get Chivalry (Which is of no use to you), Printing Press (Also pretty useless), and Education, as education will make the Library obsolete :(

Not true at all. The GLib will cough up all techs known to any two civs that you know in the turn after you take it (i.e. if you lose it in the interturn, too bad). This includes Education and everything else, except for Music Theory, for some odd reason. This can mean a huge payoff if you're way behind in techs. Go read Sid Vicious and The Magnificent 7+1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108916) to see this move used to incredible effect. I've also recently discovered that under special circumstances you can get the Great Library Elevator even if you build the GLib, rather than capture it.

[pedantic digression] Under normal circumstances, if you build the GLib it gets you through the beginning to first third of the Middle Ages, then someone will get Education, trades it around, and your free tech days are over. However, I recently played an epic demigod game as the Romans where I started on a continent with just the Koreans as neighbors and deep ocean around us. I built the GLib anyway, then spent the next two thousand years beating up on the Koreans, expanding, and beating up on the Koreans some more. No benefit from the GLib at all. No luck with suicide galleys. I finally exterminate the Koreans and just concentrate on filling out the rest of the continent, doing minimal research. I'm almost done with a complete resettlement, when England and the Byzantines both land on my shores in the same turn. The next turn, the GLib skyrockets me all the way through the Middle Ages to the start of the Industrial Age, way past Education. Trade a few contacts, steal a few more techs, and I go from an ignorant hulk of an empire to the worlds tech leader, ready to cash in on a brewing world war. That was a great game. [/pedantic digression]

In this game, the GLib may have no effect whatsoever. If Inca Dude kills off the Koreans in the next turn or two, then we'll get no benefit from taking the GLib at all. Of course, he was never going to get anything out of it himself anyway. :lol: If we take it from him before then, we may get some MA techs to help us along. As long as Inca Dude has rifle, then we need to keep pushing at techs until we get 'em too.

Am playing right now, BTW. I have some strategy ideas that might prove ... interesting.

The GLib is not a factor in this game. The Incas are doomed and the Spanish and Koreans cannot do anything. This game was over the minute Andronicus established the beach head and we got cavs. Cav armies are very powerful and the Inca's core is too near to our basement on their continent.

at choxorn : I had cavs losing to warriors or modern armors losing to spears. Sometimes I really would like to break this damn CD.

Not true at all. The GLib will cough up all techs known to any two civs that you know in the turn after you take it (i.e. if you lose it in the interturn, too bad). This includes Education and everything else, except for Music Theory, for some odd reason. This can mean a huge payoff if you're way behind in techs. Go read Sid Vicious and The Magnificent 7+1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108916) to see this move used to incredible effect. I've also recently discovered that under special circumstances you can get the Great Library Elevator even if you build the GLib, rather than capture it.

[pedantic digression] Under normal circumstances, if you build the GLib it gets you through the beginning to first third of the Middle Ages, then someone will get Education, trades it around, and your free tech days are over. However, I recently played an epic demigod game as the Romans where I started on a continent with just the Koreans as neighbors and deep ocean around us. I built the GLib anyway, then spent the next two thousand years beating up on the Koreans, expanding, and beating up on the Koreans some more. No benefit from the GLib at all. No luck with suicide galleys. I finally exterminate the Koreans and just concentrate on filling out the rest of the continent, doing minimal research. I'm almost done with a complete resettlement, when England and the Byzantines both land on my shores in the same turn. The next turn, the GLib skyrockets me all the way through the Middle Ages to the start of the Industrial Age, way past Education. Trade a few contacts, steal a few more techs, and I go from an ignorant hulk of an empire to the worlds tech leader, ready to cash in on a brewing world war. That was a great game. [/pedantic digression]

In this game, the GLib may have no effect whatsoever. If Inca Dude kills off the Koreans in the next turn or two, then we'll get no benefit from taking the GLib at all. Of course, he was never going to get anything out of it himself anyway. :lol: If we take it from him before then, we may get some MA techs to help us along. As long as Inca Dude has rifle, then we need to keep pushing at techs until we get 'em too.

Am playing right now, BTW. I have some strategy ideas that might prove ... interesting.

In that case, I hope you can get that city before the Incas get the Koreans! If so, here's my prediction as to what techs you'll get:

Theology (if you don't research it first :) )
Chivalry
Education

I also think you may get:

Printing Press
Music Theory
Astronomy

I had cavs losing to warriors or modern armors losing to spears.
I never heard of cavs losing to Warriors, but the tank (or modern armor) vs. spearman: spearman wins :eek: :eek: is a joke you'll find in many places on this forum (I've made a few earlier in this thread :mischief:). :spear:
Most of them are on the 1000 clues you play civ 3 too much forum. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=33370) (which is actually 3207 clues, and even though it's locked, it's being continued on this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111618), which has reached clue 3547. this thread doesn't have that many tank vs. spear jokes though- yet.)

Preflight All right. Let's take a look at the world. Hey, looks like some very respectable micromanagement has been committed here. I rush a couple of harbors and tweak a tiny bit to squeeze out a few more pennies, but things are really in pretty good shape. :goodjob:

Hit Enter.

IBT Inca Dude uses his cannons to fire on a few dromons, to no effect. He moves some troops towards Beach Head. Looks like he just drafted some rifles in Cuzco, as pop has dropped to 5. This can't be a very happy Inca empire these days.

1160AD Use cannon to redline a cav outside of Beach Head, then use our cav to kill it. (1-0) Upgrade the catapults at Beach Head to trebs, since cats are effectively useless against what Inca Dude has now. One of our cav armies moves west, killing a redlined longbow, a redlined cav, and a yellow musket. This last kill gets us an Inca cannon and promotes one of the army cavs. I then move the cannon into a waiting dromon and move the cav over to where some Beach Head troops can provide cover. (4-0) Send some hurtin' cavs back to Beach Head to heal. Use the healthy troops there to clear out Inca Dude's attack force (10-0) Move a stack of troops and trebs towards the site of a potential second Byz city in Incaland.

IBT Inca dude tries his luck against our forces in the field. He wins one and loses one. (11-1) We get two palace expansions! :) We must be doing something right.

1170AD More skirmishing. (16-1) Some dromon bombardment works, most doesn't.

IBT War with the Koreans must be over, 'cuz Inca dude now has plenty of cavs to start sending our way. We come out even on the fighting again. (17-2)

1180AD Not the most dramatic turn. Nobody really in range to kill. We have minor success with dromon pillaging. I notice that nobody's landed troops at all so far. Dromons rule the seas! :dance:

IBT Inca Dude's attempts at skirmishing get him nothing. Well, nothing but a dead Inca cav. (18-2) We get Theology and I dial down research to zero. The Koreans are still alive and so the GLib might be worth something after all. :evil:

1190AD We build Fort Defiance where it can serve as a launching pad for an assult on Huamanca, the new Inca capital. Rush walls.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/flaviusx/fort_defiance.jpg

Dromons redline a cav outside Fort D's walls, and then we kill it. (19-2) Spend the rest of the turn attempting to pillage roads that connect the two halves of Inca Dude's empire (mostly successful) and that hook up his saltpeter (unsuccessful).
Getting ready to do some damage to Huamanca.

IBT Inca Dude sends some troops to take the trebs and cannons parked between Hua and Fort D. It hurts him to do it but he takes 'em. (21-5) What this gets us is our bombardment stack moved one tile closer to Hua, in immediate reach of our own troops, and where they can now be used to bomb Hua one turn earlier than they would have otherwise. Heh. It's almost like I planned it that way. Well, if I'd planned it that way, I would have left the stack undefended and not lost some troops.

1200AD A vet cav retakes the bombardment stack. Dromons, cannons and treb do some hurtin' on Hua's defenders. Trebs turn out to be the most successful. :rolleyes: Take care of a hurt rifle outside Fort D, putting him out of his pain. (22-5) Then take a shot at Hua itself. First our armies have a go at it, taking out two damaged rifles. (24-5) Then we unload cavs from dromons in Fort D. (Remember those guys that were healing in Beach Head?) Unloading in a city means they have full movement, and Hua is in range. Kill a healthy conscript rifle (25-5), then lose against a yellow elite rifle. (25-6) Twice. (25-7) Three times. (25-8) Four times, and now that cursed elite rifle is at least redlined. (25-9) Kill him on the next attempt. (26-9) Have at it boys! Kill two more redlined rifles, then a yellow cav. (29-9) There's one more redlined cav inside Hua and we have no-one in reach to take him out. :wallbash:

Move our workers towards the core in anticipation of getting rails. Yeah, you heard me. Rails. There's nothing left to do on our continent, and I have plans for that GLib.

IBT Inca Dude moves some troops to shore up defenses in Hua and to try his luck with Fort D, but no attacks. Cutting roads has really slowed him down.

1210AD Inca Dude did a little drafting too, it appears. There are two new conscript rifles in Hua. I let loose with the dromons, trebs, and cannons, and take everything down to red. Then the assault begins again. Here's what it must have looked like to the little pink men.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/flaviusx/apecavcharge.jpg

End result? Two new Inca Cannon, five new Inca slaves, and five dead Inca defenders. (36-9) And a rockpile where the capital once was.

Do a little more tidying up. (37-9)

IBT Well, the little pink guys get lucky. They kill off the cav that was guarding our slaves and steal the cannons that we stole. (37-10) Oh, and they manage to kill a musket that was on his way to guard Fort D. (37-11)Time to improve the kill ratio, I think.

1220AD Woot! I finally cut the saltpeter road on the western Inca continent. Too much to hope that that was his only supply, but you never know. Do some more road-cutting to slow down Incan reinforcements, but it's slow work. Kill a couple of stragglers, take back the cannons and workers, and start moving troops to Cuzco. (40-11)

IBT Pink guys take back the cannons and a worker. We lose some, we win some. (41-13) Get another palace expansion.

1230AD Throw rocks and cannonballs at the rifles in Cuzco, and then go in with our armies. It works. (46-13). We now own the Pyramids, Sistine Chapel (would be useful if we actually had cathedrals), Copernicus, Smith's, the Temple of Artemis (will work for us till we get Education), and Knights Templar (ditto Steam Power). Apparently Smith's is ours even though we're ignorant of Economics. And it's functional, too. Not bad for a day's work. I think we'll keep this one, as there are only two native citizens left and I think we can hold it.

Clear out all the offending pink guys within reach. (49-13) Recapture those cannons. Move some troops to take out Vilcabamba next.

IBT Pink guys take out a couple of AC's. (49-15) Inca dude moves cavs in to reinforce. Resistance in Cuzco ends before it even really began. :) We get yet another palace expansion.

1240AD Our army kills two pink cavs, pillages the irrigated grasslands and mined wheat outside of Machu Pichu, and captures two slaves. (51-15) Not bad, eh? He's hurt, so I move him to a hill to heal. Kill off some more pink cavs, losing one. (55-16)

IBT Inca Dude would like an audience. We send the envoy home in two small boxes, with a card that says: "With all my love, Theodora."

Take out a cav on defense (56-16), with the following result:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/flaviusx/pinkdudekiller.jpg

The Koreans would also like to talk. They get their own special present from Theodora, all wrapped up in a pink bow.

We also get a crusader from the Knights Templar. :D

1250AD The siege of Vilcabamba begins. Dromons, cannons, and trebs make sure that no-one inside is feeling too healthy. Three dead rifles later (59-16), and we own the Great Lighthouse. I think we'll keep it. A seafaring civ likes these sorts of things. We'll starve Vilca down, and even if it flips, Inca Dude is too far away to reinforce it against our retaking it.

Use a stack of dromons to redline all reinforcements heading into the eastern half. Start moving troops to take out Ollantaytamba, home of our friend, the Great Library.

And that's it.

Here's the plan, as a monkey sees it. Take a look at this spot where Inca Dude has a chokepoint.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/flaviusx/chokepoint.jpg

We have a total of 15 dromons in the area. My thought is to use those dromons to redline the defending musket in the northernmost fort, then take it with the army fortified on the hill two tiles away. He's hurt, but I believe that he can do it. If we can, redline the defender in the southern fort and pillage it. Our AC army is on its way to help. With the northern chokepoint taken and held, and no more Inca navy to speak of (has anyone seen a pink ship lately??), we can cut off all of Inca Dude's reinforcements. We then have a free hand to tear up everything east of the choke.

Next priority would be to take the Great Library in Ollantaytambo. We have a bunch of dromons ready to bombard it, some others ready to pick up reinforcements (including a couple of settlers) in Tamboccocha, and other troops moving in (including 4 healthy veteran cavs right outside Ollan's walls). I believe that we can take Ollan in the next turn or two. Then we can ride that elevator all the way to the top. Isabella may not be too smart, but the Koreans are still alive, and they're scientific. If Inca Dude has rifles, then so does Korea, and if we take the GLib, so will we. Count on it. Then all the workers now fortified in our core with literally nothing to do can go on a railroad frenzy. Even if Inca and Korea don't have Steam Power yet, if we sweep through all the MA techs we'll either get Steam Power as our free tech (oh, happy day), or be able to research it quickly. With research turned off for about 7 turns now, we've got plenty of money in the bank.

I also have no idea where the Inca capital has jumped to. It doesn't appear to be in the eastern territories anymore.

Hope this all makes sense. The next better player should have a lot of fun with the next few turns.

The roster is:

goz - ON DECK
Andronicus - Led D-day invasion and got leader for cav army
markh - took out Cuzco the first time and secured beachhead for all time
SimpleMonkey - turned pink territory red and acquired some Wonders
classical hero - UP!

The save has to come as an attachment, as upload from Civfanatics doesn't seem to be working.

Preturn. I ws about to start research again but I will do that once we get the Great Library.

IBT. We lost a Cav Army. It only had a 4 hitpoints left so it was always going to vunerable.

Turn one. I upgrade Horse to cavs.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/999/upgradeshorse7il.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not much else happene just some bombardment. I move the Army out for fear of losing the city to the Incans.

IBT. Not much.

Turn two. We kill a Long bow and continue bombaring the enemy.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn Three. We took Ollantaytambo. I kill three We now have the Great wall and the Great Library. Now lets see what techs we get from it. i bombarbed one of the Musket barricades and now it has not road to it so that means it will be harder for the Incans to be moving there troops to our area. I build New Brusa on the Island.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5749/newbrusa6ar.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT. We are now into the next age.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/950/newage1ew.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

From the Great Library we get. Education, Banking, Astronomy, Physics, Economics, Navigation, Magnetism, Theory of Gravity, and Medicine.

Turn Four. We are now researching again and I have made a beeline for Communism. We can get it in 17 turns. It looks like that Cuzco will be the great site for the Secret Police. I raze Vitcos to the ground since that city was too culturally strong.
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/5396/vitcos7mk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I also razed that Great wall and Libray city since it is too dangerous for us to have in our control with all that potential culture that will kill our other cities.

IBT. Two Cavs retreated to a rifle.

Turn five. I kill a longbow wil a new created Crusader. I kill those two Cavs and I kill a rilfe on a hill outside of Cuzco. I build new Prilep on the site of Vitcos. I build a harbour in Beach hed since that will gain us an extra lux and thus we can lower the lux rate. i had to increase the rate because many cities were going into disorder.

IBT. We kill a Cav and we lose a Crusader.

Turn six. We kill that cav that killed our Crusader and we got Constatnine.
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6398/mgl16oy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I build a Cav army to replace the one that was lost in the ifrst IBT. Our next MGl should go towards building the SPHQ. I build new Ohrid on place of Ollantaytambo. I bombard a Galleon to death. I successfully bombard there Salt source.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn seven. We kill another Galleon. I upgrade the Trebuchets for 300. I build New Vidin.

IBT. Not much. More cannon fodder.

Turn eight. We build the Pentagon.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8220/pentagon4xl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I have four Armies going for Machu Picchu. I kille two Rifles on a hill out side Cuzco, but they were cannon fodder, but the cannons were not as effective as I would have liked.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn nine. We took Machu Picchu.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9835/machupicchu7wt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT. We lost a Dromon to a frigate.

Turn ten. We shore up our defences and get ready for a new offence.

My thoughs of the next few turns. I have all the workers from our main continent in or near Tamboccocha, which has been the main staging point for our transfer of troops. We really need to improve the land that we have taken since we did qute a bit of pillaging. I have a settler that is going to where was once an Incan city. We have the firepower to take on two civs now so I have quite a few troops near spain so I am thinking that we should now go after spain. They are technologically backwards. We have many MidA techs that they do not have.

IBT. We are now into the next age.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/950/newage1ew.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

From the Great Library we get. Education, Banking, Astronomy, Physics, Economics, Navigation, Magnetism, Theory of Gravity, and Medicine.


The Inca were the only civ with chivalry??? :eek: :eek: If Korea had all of those, then why didn't they have chivalry???

Darn, I was hoping we'd get Steam Power. I'm not sure about sending all our workers to the newly liberated territories -- even if they have nothing at all to do in our continent now, we need them to rail the place up. Burning some more Inca cities should get us enough workers over there. I'd go with Steam as soon as Nationalism completes.

Great job consolidating our holdings, C_H! :thumbsup: Looks like you snagged the GLib without nearly as many casualties as I took razing Ollam. We can now easily launch an attack from Machu Pichu to take those two fortified chokes and shut off Inca Dude's reinforcements.

Intersting idea about taking out Spain now. With luck they might even have a lux or two that we can now use since we have Navigation and Magnetism. And it's a big step towards the Domination limit. Unless we want to do nothing but pillage and destroy from here on out and go for a Conquest win. Any opinions?

The roster is:

goz - UP!
Andronicus - ON DECK
markh - took out Cuzco the first time and secured beachhead for all time
SimpleMonkey - turned pink territory red and acquired some Wonders
classical hero - rode the Great Library elevator

Great progress guys :goodjob:

I dont think anything can stop us now, its just questions of when and how

Do we want domination or conquest?
- my vote is conquest and just raze cities from here in (maybe keep a lux or 2)

Science - not convinced on the nationalism - commie thing but I guess we're nearly there. Rails will speed our approach and give sig production boost, but I would be keen to stop science soon and use our economy to cash rush cavs which even against rifles will prove an irresistable force. Of course commie prevents cash rushing and short rushing which is partly why I think its a waste. Commie also negates our science / tax farms (which I note we are neglecting).
To get better attacking units we would need tanks and I dont see this game going that long.


Should we mobilise? - means we are stuck with continued mobilisation, but I reckon we could just pump out units (vet cavs) and over run the opposition - who needs infrastructure?

Find that Naissus has one shield left to a settler, but it's only pop 1. Swap to cannon and put it back to growth.
Plan was to abandon when it accumulated the shields for settler

Put me on hold for the moment. I am very busy at work so I will not have much time to play any saves. Sorry about this.

I just took a look at the save. We have Nationalism (must have popped it as our free tech) and Medicine. Commie is coming online in 7. Ordinarily I'd say go for Steam and then Espionage, but the game might not last that long. CivAssist says that we'd be awesome as a commie empire with the SPHQ in Cuzco. If we think it's going to take us a while to clear out the map, then it might be worth it. Otherwise we could get Steam Power, rail like crazy (a great thing in wartime!), and maybe even go with Andronicus's suggestion --shut off research, mobilize, and go nuts with the cavs. My own thought is to play it up the midde -- research Espionage, leader-rush the SPHQ, go commie, steal Steam from whoever has it by then, and finish the game in high style with a conquest. (I assume we can plant a spy in enemy even if we don't have embassies there.) I wouldn't mobilize in AW unless it was right at the end. I don't like losing the flexibility.

Oh, and let's not forget that we can now use cops to cut down on city corruption.

Okay, enough of me belaboring the obvious. We're doing fantastic, guys!

Intersting idea about taking out Spain now. With luck they might even have a lux or two that we can now use since we have Navigation and Magnetism. And it's a big step towards the Domination limit. Unless we want to do nothing but pillage and destroy from here on out and go for a Conquest win. Any opinions?

Good idea. Enough cavs attcking spain, and they're history. Then use what's left to attack Inca (and Korea if Inca and Korea are no longer at war). If all of their cavs are holding you off up north, a southern attack would work very well.

I can't play until the weekend again, so please skip/swap.

There's no reason to do anything now but build cavs, cavs and more cavs and send them over. Short-rushing by turning off research, Why would we want another tech when the game is over in a few turnsets?

Ah well, some galleons would do great of course.

We took out the core already so the rest of the game should be a breeze.

With C_H on hold and goz tied up until the weekend, it looks like it's Andronicus up to bat. Can the three of us raze our way to glory and finish this one with one turn each? We shall see.

OK "got it"

Still would like to consider mobilisation - very powerful if no infrastructure needed and I cant see we need to complete all the temple builds going on at the moment - a LB will do well as extra mp for only 40 shields and can be produced by corrupt towns allowing core to concentrate on cavs

Because mobilisation is irreversible I wont mobilise unless there is agreement to go that way. Hope to play later today.
Plan to research rails ASAP, not sure on switching to commie (I lack experience here) Remember civassist does not take into account the benefit we get from science / tax farms and from cash / short rushing.
Commie would need quite a production benefit to overcome this, particuarly as most currently corrupt towns lack rax and that would need to be first build (after a period of anarchy). I suspect it may be quite a few turns before revolting to commie pays off, but I am prepared to be persuaded by reasoned argument :crazyeye: .

Commie would be a powerful government if we planned to take this game a fair chunk further. If we can knock this out in three turnsets there may not be as much point. I like commie since we don't have civil engineers to make our distant holdings productive, we get even more effective MP happiness (I'm pretty sure), and I love to pop rush conquered cities. However, there is the anarchy to consider. Having just played a solo game where I had to sit through 9 mind-numbing turns of anarchy, I'd hate to see what the RNG would hand us with our empire as big as it is.

We are close to the domination limit. My preference would be to take the chokepoint first thing, and then raze everything west of it. Hold and develop everything west of it, since there's so much useful stuff that Inca Dude built there. Rails would be incredibly powerful for doing this, as we can just chain-gang slaves from rockpile to rockpile, giving our units friction-free travel and allowing cities to be taken in rapid sequence. Wait a minute -- since Inca Dude will have deep culture borders for everything we're attacking, and we're not planning on keeping anything, rails might not help that much. Well, they'd help if we kept conquered cities, railed through the claimed territory, then sold off all improvements and abandoned our conquests. Just a thought.

If we abandon the research on Communism and switch a lot of our tax collectors into scientists, how fast could we get Steam? :hmm:

I'm starting to be tempted by the go-for-broke approach of mobilization. Again, if we're going to finish this game fairly quickly, and are never planning to take it as far as wanting to build factories or tanks, then just dumping everything into a massive cav rush might just be the way to go. Perhaps wiser heads than mine could chime in here, eh?

@goz -- Please give a holler if you free up anytime to play before this weekend. We can do a swap out at any point if you'd like to get a set in, rather than do a complete skip.