View Full Version : Basics: When to use slavery efficient.


Mutineer
Mar 19, 2006, 08:44 PM
Slavery, when it's use is efficient.
Slavery let as whip population for hummers.

On normal speed 1 population will produce 30 hummers. Each slavery whip cost 1 happiness.
Town size 1 needs 22 foods to grow to size 2.

So, roundly, 1 unit of food will produce 1.5 hummers.
With granary, it will be 3 hummers.

So, in best conditions, slavery converts 1 food to 3 hummers.
Towns need 30 foods to grow to size 5. With granary size 5 cities convert 1 food into 2 hummers.

What our other option to convert food to hummers?
Grassland hill mine convert 1 food into 3 hummers.
Plain hill mine convert 2 foods into 4 hummers.
So, if we ignoring happiness and health, Grassland mine is always better then slavery in any conditions. Plain hill mine become equal to slavery for city size 5.

Any town by default have 2 food, so if you happiness let you have size 2 town and it working 2 plain hill mines he is in optimum for hummer production. Any use of slavery will only decrease this town hummer production.
In addition, any act of using slavery decrease max size of town by one. For town at there max and having ability to work plain forest or irrigated plains cost of slavery come to 10 lost hummers.

I did try to create a table when slavery is better then normal production, but it is a bit to complicate and depends on available ties.

So, I just write basic conclusion:

When all food surpluses could be converted to hummers using grassland hill mines slavery is always a bad idea.

When all food surpluses can be converted to hummers using plain hill mines slavery is bad idea over town size 3.
When all food surpluses can be converted to hummers by plain forest slavery is a bad idea in town size > 5.

Smokey McDope
Mar 19, 2006, 10:47 PM
I don't know about you, but in my part of the world "hummer" means *******. Perhaps you meant hammers?

Oh wow this place has kiddie block. Well the starred out word is the long form of BJ.

Lord Chambers
Mar 19, 2006, 10:50 PM
Gentlemen usually exchange 1 food over dinner, then get 1 hummer back at the cottage, but if you're Aggressive then you might not need the food.

Rod
Mar 20, 2006, 05:58 AM
The decision about using the whip is certainly much more complicated and is involving more than the optimization of the terrain. That you need an optimized terrain is for sure, but even the optimization should follow up your basic strategy .. which way to win.

Slavery is also involving the question of how much is a turn worth ? Basically the rushing of buildings has to follow this question, how long can I wait for this building in exactly this city. The taxation of course depends on the importance of the city ("I can not wait too long, because only this city can produce in a sufficient time : units, special buildings, wonders, missionaries etc.).

It depends on the food base of the city ('The city is back on track in the same/earlier time, like it would need to finish the building in a normal way')

It depends on the importance of the building ('The sixth bank ! Who cares for the 4 peasants ?' The cathredal will enable me to reach this oil resource in only a few turns. Let's get out a whip ! )

All this complex decision you can not summarize in a table. Everybody has to make his own decision to push his civilization over the bottom line.
Peter the Great let his peasants die to build up St. Peterburg, to get a harbour in the Baltic Sea - in game terms, this mean a coastal city and you have astronomy, so now you sell all this 5 spare furs for 4 or 5 each and you even may trade in this Marble and Stones to double production of Hermitage ....

cabert
Mar 20, 2006, 06:24 AM
there are various situations where the whip is either the only way or the best way :
- you have just one warrior defending your city and you finally connected that copper/iron, when the barbarian (or AI's) hordes show up.
Do you give up your whole city or just one pop to get an axeman?
- you have plenty unhappy people: do i grow even more unhappiness, or do i whip a temple? you trade 2 unhappy people against one temple (one happyness, against one unhappyness for ten turns, then full bonus of one happyness when the one pop is back. Meanwhile you could have another happy building in sight)
- you don't grow anymore, the building is very urgent. You whip one pop to get the building that lets you grow further (health bonus, granary for instance)

I do whip a lot, in my GP farm with 4 or 5 food bonuses !

Elledge
Mar 20, 2006, 07:24 AM
Hey, last Friday I bought 5 food and a Wine and only got 1 hummer. What's the big secret?

EDIT: Oh, I see, apparently I need to live in at least a size 2 town for optimum hummer production.

mattspoker
Mar 20, 2006, 09:58 AM
alea iacta est translates much better as the die IS cast. was cast if you want to really use the perfect tense, but is does better in english because the phrase(more greek corruption than latin) means the die is still turning. Using has been suggest complketion of the roll. When crossing the rubicon the verdict was rather up in the air!

Zombie69
Mar 20, 2006, 10:50 AM
I'm pretty sure it's "alea jacta est", with a J. At least that's how it's always presented in French, a latin language.

RemoWilliams
Mar 20, 2006, 11:31 AM
I'm pretty sure it's "alea jacta est", with a J. At least that's how it's always presented in French, a latin language.

It's been a while since I took latin, but I'm pretty sure there was no J in latin.

So, Julius Caesar was actually IULIUSCAESAR (they didn't have spaces or small letters either).:mischief:

Rod
Mar 21, 2006, 05:08 AM
Hello,

the translation : 'the dice is cast' is certainly better. My translation 'the dice has fallen' was simply bad English or 'Denglisch'.

'Denglisch' means Deutsch-Englisch and describes the habit of us Germans simply to translate our phrases word by word into English. So in German we translate 'alea iacta est' into 'Der Wuerfel ist gefallen' which means (word by word) 'the dice has fallen :).

There is certainly no J in Latin.
Maybe you ever saw a Christian Crux that inscribes INRE ?
INRE is nothing but :IESUS NAZARETUS REX IUDAE (or someting similiar - I am no Christian, sorry) - in anyway we call IESUS nowadays Jesus and the Iudae are nothing but the Jews :)

n0xie
Mar 21, 2006, 06:00 AM
INRI stands for Iesus (Jesus) Nazarenus (the Nazorean) Rex (Leader) Iudaeorum (of Judea) which roughly translates to Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. As you can see, latin does not have a 'J'.

Zombie69
Mar 21, 2006, 12:43 PM
Latin may not have a J, but we do say Julius Caesar and Jesus, so why not also say alea jacta est. I guess both methods make sense. One seems to be the accepted norm in French (which tends to translate latin expressions, wholly or partly), and the other in English (which tends to keep them as is).

As for the meaning of alea jacta est, again in French we have a more liberal translation, "le sort en est jeté", which translated literally in English would give "fate is thus cast".

Crighton
Mar 21, 2006, 12:46 PM
Frankly I use the whip on newly conquered cities to cut down on unhappiness etc etc. In one game I converted 192 of my own citizens into usefull structures, humans make for a good binding agent during construction :)

Zombie69
Mar 21, 2006, 12:47 PM
INRI stands for Iesus (Jesus) Nazarenus (the Nazorean) Rex (Leader) Iudaeorum (of Judea) which roughly translates to Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. As you can see, latin does not have a 'J'.

Rex isn't Leader, Rex literally means King. In French, King is Roi, which is obvisouly pretty close to Rex. It's even closer in Italian (Re), Spanish (Rey) and Portugese (Rei), the other 3 modern day latin languages.

RemoWilliams
Mar 21, 2006, 07:04 PM
Latin may not have a J, but we do say Julius Caesar and Jesus, so why not also say alea jacta est.

I've never heard it pronounced that way though, I've always heard it pronounced "yacta". Not that I care all that much, but you corrected someone else incorrectly, so I re-corrected your correction.;)

cabert
Mar 22, 2006, 04:40 AM
jacta is how it's written in french/latin dictionnaries, it's a famous citation always written alea jacta est in every Asterix

Zombie69
Mar 22, 2006, 10:13 AM
jacta is how it's written in french/latin dictionnaries, it's a famous citation always written alea jacta est in every Asterix

And pronounced "alea jacta est" in every Asterix movie.

maltz
Mar 22, 2006, 11:22 AM
As the original post suggests I find Slavery not useful in any high food city that has a few hills. The ideal slave center would be a waterfront city with many seafood but very few hills.

I use slavery primarily to rush temples (the angry face is offset by the temple's happy face), wonders, or a pre-req to wonder and I have a Great Engineer waiting. I also prefer to whip when the lost pop will be substrated from the lazy citizens. This way I don't really lose any production power.

cabert
Mar 23, 2006, 09:08 AM
As the original post suggests I find Slavery not useful in any high food city that has a few hills. The ideal slave center would be a waterfront city with many seafood but very few hills.

I use slavery primarily to rush temples (the angry face is offset by the temple's happy face), wonders, or a pre-req to wonder and I have a Great Engineer waiting. I also prefer to whip when the lost pop will be substrated from the lazy citizens. This way I don't really lose any production power.

seems to me the best way to go for cities you build yourself

I tend to whip a lot more than this on captured cities.
For two good reasons :
- there is often a whole bunch of lazy ones
- quite often, they are starving anyway (lack of culture->no tiles to work->no food)