So I just got back from a vacation business trip to Seattle. What I was up to over there is not important, but it sort of prompted me to start up something in this forum.

And yes, I finally managed to patch my Civ 3 Vanilla up to v1.29 after a horrendous reconfiguration of my computer.

This is not really a mod, just edited the civs (new leaders, traits, and UU assignments). I'm no good at making units or animations, so just bear with me and all the lameness I've put into this scenario. I'd still appreciate guinea pigs to volunteer and see what this may turn out to be.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/5850/googleearthsetup3hz.png

Variant rules - Can the company whose motto is "Don't be evil" manage to rule the world while making a handsome profit?

I only have three so far, open to suggestions:
1. Don't be evil. This amounts to not using exploits, respecting our reputation, etc.
2. We must declare war on our evil nemesis Microsoft as soon as we contact them, and will keep up the war until they are destroyed. We must never make peace with them. No initial trades allowed.
3. We must maintain a positive cash flow at all times to appease our investors. No deficit spending ever.

As for map size and difficulty, I'd like to see this game last into modern age, so I'd recommend either standard or large and emperor or deity, but I'd like to hear your opinions as well.

Notes on the modifications:
1. Google is expansionist and scientific. They build Web Crawlers instead of chariots, which have the same stats as the Egyptian War Chariot.
2. Apple is religious and scientific. They build Podcasters instead of musketmen, which have the same stats as the French Musketeer.
3. IBM is militaristic and scientific. They build Deep Blue instead of tanks, which have the same stats as the German Panzer.
4. Linux is religious and industrious. They build Penguincraft instead of frigates, which have the same stats as the English Man-of-War.
5. AOL Time Warner is expansionist and commercial. They build Monthly Subscribers instead of archers, which have the same stats as the Babylonian Bowman.
6. Yahoo! is expansionist and industrious. They build Yahooligans instead of warriors, which have the same stats as the Aztec Jaguar Warrior.
7. Sun Microsystems is scientific and industrious. They build Virtual Javadumpers instead of jet fighters, which have the same stats as the American F-15.
8. Microsoft has all six traits. They build Mindless Minions instead of spearmen, which have the same stats as the Zulu Impi.

I'll post the mod graphics and a bic file once I see enough interest in this, since there might be a couple of other loose ends I need to check on before this game can get started. And I probably also need to write up a few instructions on how to set this up.

EDIT: The files are now available for download in Post #7 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3837060&postcount=7) on this thread.

EDIT 2: The game has started!
Deity
Continents
Standard size
70% ocean
Temperate
Wet
4 billion years landform
Raging barbs.

The start:

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5813/googleearth20ty.png

Roster:
Sima Qian
tupaclives
Andronicus
Tone
Mirc (?)

Read on for more details...

Is this for real? This has gotta be the weirdest mod ever. Looking forward to it, unless it's an early April Fools joke.

Vanilla 1.29f? Sign me up!! :D

Obviously we'll need to wait for your instructions on setting up the mod but I wanna reserve a place now ;)

Is this for real? This has gotta be the weirdest mod ever. Looking forward to it, unless it's an early April Fools joke.

This is not a joke, I'm totally serious. This is how our game might go:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4262/googleearthdiplo3dq.png

Vanilla 1.29f? Sign me up!! :D

Obviously we'll need to wait for your instructions on setting up the mod but I wanna reserve a place now ;)

Okay, you're in!

Microsoft has all six traits.

This sounds very interesting - I'd like to join

With all traits would that make for an early KAI - seems appropriate but quite a challenge

Pangea would ensure earlier warfare and exposure of all to microsoft, but may make for an earlier ending one way or the other

Great idea.:lol: :goodjob:

Will take a room in the lurker's hotel.

OK, let's see if this works.

I'm posting a zip file with a whole bunch of stuff inside. Check to make sure you find the following when you open it:

Art:
Advisors: 8 files ending in _all.pcx
Civilopedia: Icons: Races: 16 files ending in either 128.pcx or 32.pcx
Flics: 8 files ending in .flc
leaderheads: 16 fiiles ending in either 120.pcx or just .pcx

Text: civilopedia.txt and pediaicons.txt

Scenarios: Google Earth.bic

Saves: Eric Schmidt of the Googlers, 4000 BC.SAV


Installation:
1. BACK UP THESE TWO FILES FIRST
Before doing anything else, go to your current civ3 directory, then go to Text, and make backups for civilopedia.txt and pediaicons.txt
2. Move the zip file to your civ3 directory and extract it right there. Alternatively, you could extract it to its own folder and then copy all of its contents into the civ3 directory.

Gameplay:
1. Load up Civ3 Vanilla 1.29f
2. Select "Load Scenario"
3. Choose "Google Earth.bic"

Or you could try playing the save I already generated, but I think we will probably want to agree on what kind of map/difficulty/etc first.

EDIT: Archive replaced with newer version with a few fixes and additions (mostly cosmetic/civilopedia stuff). 21 March 2006.

Current roster:

Sima Qian
tupaclives
Andronicus
...

any more?

I'll be staying in the Lurker's Den watching. Looks awesome!:)

Okay, game hasn't even started and I've managed to screw up already. I didn't include the new unit folders in the zip file, although they're all just redundant versions of the units already included in the game.

I tried to attach those, but it seems like the file size is too large. Plus, I think CFC has a policy against attaching copyrighted material from Firaxis (not freely redistributable), so I'm not going to push the limits there.

WHAT TO DO:

- Go to civ3/Art/units

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the War Chariot folder.
- Rename it to "Web Crawler"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of War Chariot.ini to "Web Crawler.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the Musketeer folder.
- Rename it to "Podcaster"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of Musketeer.ini to "Podcaster.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the Panzer folder.
- Rename it to "Deep Blue"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of Panzer.ini to "Deep Blue.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the Man-O-War folder.
- Rename it to "Penguincraft"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of Man-O-War.ini to "Penguincraft.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the Jaguar Warrior folder.
- Rename it to "Yahooligan"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of Jaguar Warrior.ini to "Yahooligan.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the Impi folder.
- Rename it to "Mindless Minion"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of Impi.ini to "Mindless Minion.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the F-15 folder.
- Rename it to "Virtual Javadumper"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of F-15.ini to "Virtual Javadumper.ini"

- Make a duplicate (copy & paste) of the Bowman folder.
- Rename it to "Monthly Subscriber"
- Go inside the folder and change the name of Bowman.ini to "Monthly Subscriber.ini"

Sorry about the inconvenience. You will also be wasting about 13 MB of disk space this way :lol:

If anyone knows of an easier way to do this, please let me know (although I'd probably have better luck on the C&C forum).

How could I pass up the chance of participating in something so original?

I'd like to sign up please.

lurkers comment: Heh, "Antichrist Bill Gates." This looks interesting. I'll be watching :D

How could I pass up the chance of participating in something so original?

I'd like to sign up please.

Great! You've been added to the roster, which now holds:

Sima Qian
tupaclives
Andronicus
Tone
(open slot)

Tone! Good to be playing with you again! :goodjob:

I'll take room 12 in the lurker hotel, please. Extra towels, please. Non smoking.

BEST MOD EVER

Would join if I could run vanilla on my PC, for some reason it corrupts the files and weird things happen like despotic radar towers :lol:

Will lurk with joy :cooool:

ACK!!! I found another glitch while doing some playtesting - forgot to disable Yahoo from building warriors and AOL from building archers (since their UUs replace them).

Expect another updated scenario file soon.

Anyway, I'm glad to see there's so many lurkers checking in. Although is there anyone else to fill in that last spot on the roster?

Ok, problems should be fixed now. I also added some more civilopedia entries - mostly gibberish or technobabble, nothing meaningful in there.

The zip file in Post #7 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3837060&postcount=7) has been replaced with the newer version.

If you already downloaded the older version, only a few files have changed, so you can just make the necessary replacements. These are:
Scenarios/Google Earth.bic
Text/civilopedia.txt
Text/pediaicons.txt
Saves/Eric Schmidt of the Googlers, 4000 BC.SAV

The save file isn't that important, since we will probably generate a new one once we are ready for the game. This one I included is mainly for testing purposes.

Oh, and the unit setup instructions in Post #10 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3838109&postcount=10) still apply, so if you haven't done that yet, please do so.

Still waiting for one more player on the roster...

Tried loading save, but at end of first turn got this message then civ crashed :(

edit : could this be a microsoft conspiracy since I use windows :crazyeye: ?

I got the same message but then I went back and checked I'd followed all the instructions for the units. Make sure everything has been renamed, then ti should work.

Actually I'm havign a problem too, the advisor windows have no background which makes the text very difficult to read and for some reason I can't change what I'm researching, and using the sliders is a very difficult task

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4162/picture22ua.jpg

Oh, and the unit setup instructions in Post #10 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3838109&postcount=10) still apply, so if you haven't done that yet, please do so.



:blush: thats what happens for not reading all the instructions - cant blame Bill Gates for that one

works a treat now :goodjob:

Tried loading save, but at end of first turn got this message then civ crashed :(

edit : could this be a microsoft conspiracy since I use windows :crazyeye: ?

:blush: thats what happens for not reading all the instructions - cant blame Bill Gates for that one

works a treat now :goodjob:

Whew, you had me scared there for a moment.

I got the same message but then I went back and checked I'd followed all the instructions for the units. Make sure everything has been renamed, then ti should work.

Actually I'm havign a problem too, the advisor windows have no background which makes the text very difficult to read and for some reason I can't change what I'm researching, and using the sliders is a very difficult task


Hmm, I don't know if this is a problem specific to the Mac port of the game, but I suspect it might have something to do with your monitor settings for color. Perhaps you could check and see if changing between 16-bit, 24-bit, or 32-bit color will have any effect.

I also had a problem where I could not change what I was researching during one instance where the Civ III installer had crashed at the end, but a clean reinstall fixed it for me.

I kind of broke with tradition and used the GIMP for almost all of the graphics work, except for the conversion of some of the FLCs. I heard that most people here at CFC use Paint Shop Pro, which I'm not quite in the mood to go out and buy. But if I were to take a wild guess at how that problem you have might be happening, it could be based on different ways the color palettes are saved in the pcx files between GIMP and PSP.

If not, I'll probably post something over in tech support or creation & customization and beg for help from more knowledgeable modders...

tupac, another thing you might want to check is to make sure you replaced the civilopedia.txt and pediaicons.txt files with the updated version I posted yesterday. Those could affect the tech tree display since the UU's are supposed to show up in there too.

Tried changing bit rate, refresh rate, resolution, triple checked all files... When I say I cant change what I'm researching I mean that when a new tech is discovered I can't decide what to research, so I can only take what the advisor offers. Other than that everything else is fine, ok so its a little irritating not being able to see a background but I can move the sliders, it just takes time, I can even change what nations military im looking at, it just takes some effort, but if I can't choose wat tech to research then thats a bit of a problem...

I must be in the front row. NO, section ZZ. Oh well, I'll still be watching, but I'm not brave enough to get into this. Modding is way over my head, but this looks cool, and I'm looking forward to seening what Tone does. He practically owns the HoF.

Tried changing bit rate, refresh rate, resolution, triple checked all files... When I say I cant change what I'm researching I mean that when a new tech is discovered I can't decide what to research, so I can only take what the advisor offers. Other than that everything else is fine, ok so its a little irritating not being able to see a background but I can move the sliders, it just takes time, I can even change what nations military im looking at, it just takes some effort, but if I can't choose wat tech to research then thats a bit of a problem...

That's a bit odd, I would try a clean reinstall of the game and patches as a last resort. Are you getting this problem when you load the save file, or does it also happen when you start a new game using the "Load Scenario" option?

When you say that you can only take what the advisor offers for research, do you mean that you can still choose techs from the drop-down menu that appears, or does even that not work either?

Yes! I can use the drop down menu! Thank you Sima, in over the year I've been playing I actually never even knew about the drop down menu! Guess you learn something new every day!

I havent tried a clean install but I'll let you know later today how that goes.
Also the problem occurs when I start a new game via 'load scenario' and the problem remains when loading a save, including the save you provided.

However now that the drop down menu works I can paly the game normally, it will just be slightly irritating dealign with advisors.

Yes! I can use the drop down menu! Thank you Sima, in over the year I've been playing I actually never even knew about the drop down menu! Guess you learn something new every day!

I havent tried a clean install but I'll let you know later today how that goes.
Also the problem occurs when I start a new game via 'load scenario' and the problem remains when loading a save, including the save you provided.

However now that the drop down menu works I can paly the game normally, it will just be slightly irritating dealign with advisors.

Heh, well it's good to know that your game will still be "playable," although somewhat inconvenient. It doesn't look like there's anyone else interested in joining, so I guess I can open up the discussion for what kind of map and difficulty now.

I'd favor standard, continents 70% water, normal/temperate climate, etc. - won't seem too unbalanced that way. Either emperor or deity difficulty will work for me. As far as barbs are concerned I don't really care.

If continents it will make a big difference whether we are on same continent as the "softies".
I would vote for diety but likely regret it if we are on same continent.
What about pangea, emporer? There are enough limitations to make this quite a challenge.
We're expansionist so I guess barbs are good :p

I'm easy going. Continents-pangea-no preference.

If we go Continents I'd prefer 70% wet, temperate, 4 billion, if pangea id rather 70% wet, warm, 5 billion.

Lurker here - wow. COTM 22 has a similar theme, except it's the Macfanatics vs. the world. I won't post more on it, cause it's still going on.

I would join - never played in an SG - but I don't have vanilla anymore.

Okay, since we have some different ideas about what kind of map, I decided to let the RNG help us decide. I've generated some starts, and for each setting I've taken the first one that has a food bonus of some kind (yeah I'm kind of cheap in that respect, haven't played deity in some time).

Common settings:

Difficulty: Deity
Map size: Standard
Water: 70%
Barbarians: Raging
Rules: Default, except Respawn AI has been disabled


Now for the starting positions:

Start #1:

Continents
Normal
Temperate
4 billion years


http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/3710/googleearth12of.png

My comments:
Good: River, lots of choppables, and a BG. Deer can become a 3-food tile after it gets chopped and irrigated.
Bad: Flood plains have disease and are typically a signal that there is desert nearby

Start #2:

Continents
Wet
Temperate
4 billion years


http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5813/googleearth20ty.png

My comments:
Good: River, cow, and 2 BG's. Some choppables but not as many as Start #1
Bad: Looks like a jungle SW of the cow

Start #3:

Pangaea
Wet
Warm
5 billion years


http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7662/googleearth34xh.png

My comments:
Good: Two wheats (!!!), two BG's, two choppable tiles
Bad: I still prefer rivers to lakes and cows to wheats, and lots of jungle in this start

So far my vote is for Start #2.

No 2 gets my vote :D

I'll vote for #2 as well. Cow, bgs, hills, river. That'll do for me.

Two's always been my lucky number :)

I kind of broke with tradition here, usually I see people playing 20, sometimes 30 turns to determine whether or not a start was worthwhile.

Well, this time it took me 40 :( Hope that's ok with you. Most of the first turns are pretty boring anyway.

If anyone cares, I'm including two saves with this report, one after 30 turns, and one after 40. I would have felt bad leaving whoever is up next with the mess I had at 30 turns, although I'm sure you would've been ready for the challenge. Feel free to replay what I had at 30 turns just to see how it might have turned out.

So, without further ado, here we go:

4000 BC:
- Move worker 1 south to cow (pretty obvious that will be the first tile to be worked). Oh surprise, he sees more jungle in that direction.
- If worker goes south, then natural thing for the scout to do is move 2 north. Looks like it's a coastline we have nearby, unless it's a humongous lake.
- Found Googleplex on the spot with the settler, will build warrior.
- Bah! Scout moved in the wrong direction, there's a goody hut 2 east of the city.
- Research set to alphabet at minimum, expected in 40 turns.

3950 BC:
- Worker begins irrigating.
- Scout climbs a hill and sees some fish and more BG's.

3900 BC:
- Scout discovers another BG. That makes two BG's in range with the fish.

3850 BC:
- Scout discovers yet another BG (!!!). Looks like a very nice starting position, not just for the capital, but for the entire core set of cities.

3800 BC:
- Scout continues moving to the southwest.

3750 BC:
- Irrigation complete.
- Scout sees lots of jungle.
- Googleplex: warrior -> scout

3700 BC:
- Googleplex grows to size 2. Scout due in 2 turns instead of 5.

3650 BC:
- Worker begins to mine BG.
- Scout finds a goody hut out on a hill in the southwest.

3600 BC:
- Googleplex: scout -> settler
- Second scout moves two tiles to the east into the goody hut and finds... NOTHING :mad: (I thought we were expansionist!)
- Okay, not that bad, at least there's horses nearby.
- First scout enters goody hut, and gets a tech (ceremonial burial)

3550 BC:
- First scout wanders further and finds our first luxury resource - silks in the jungle.
- Second scout goes southeast and sees 3 cows :eek:

3500 BC:
- Well, drat. We've run into our evil nemesis already, the first civ we ever meet. Stupid scout standing right there on the furs gets the punishment he deserves.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3866/googleearth3500bc0gy.png
- In other news, Googleplex experiences cultural expansion.

3450 BC:
- More silks found in the jungle in the southwest.
- Still no sign of the Microsoft military.

3400 BC:
- Not much new. See some fish though.

3350 BC:
- More furs found. Too far away for us to build a city there though.
- We are chasing the Microsoft scout as he tries to wander back to their capital. Seems like there's more jungle in that direction.

3300 BC:
- Nothing to see here, moving along.

3250 BC:
- Googleplex: settler -> warrior
- A black border is seen, looks like the evil Microsoft capital.

3200 BC:
- Our first scout is still lost out west, in the middle of hills, mountains, and jungle.
- Second scout sneaks through Microsoft territory.

3150 BC:
- There is more land on the other side of Redmond!

3100 BC:
- Is there anyone else on the other side of Microsoft?
IBT: Yes! A scout wearing a light blue tunic wanders by and we wave at him.

3050 BC:
- This trade is made:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3286/googleearth3050bc8qw.png
We were still 23 turns from researching alphabet, and I was afraid that AOL would make contact with Microsoft soon, which would likely make this trade impossible.
- Research changed to writing, at minimum.
- Menlo Park founded, with two cows and horse in its radius.
- Googleplex: warrior -> settler

3000 BC:
- AOL border found, with gems in a mountain just outside it.

2950 BC:
- Our first scout climbs a mountain and sees another goody hut.

2900 BC:
- Injured AOL warriors spotted. Seems like they're having a rough time with barbs.

2850 BC:
- The goody hut give us... *drumroll* ... bronze working!
- AOL has a worker for sale. We buy for 30 gold.

2800 BC:
- Menlo Park: warrior -> warrior
- Barb camp found in the far southeast. Fortunately there's better targets than our scout for the barbs.
IBT: Steve Case builds Mirabilis ICQ and fortifies warrior, who successfully defends against barbs.

2750 BC:
- Our scout in the west is spotted by a barbarian. Uhoh!

2710 BC:
- The AOL capital, Welcome Screen, is sighted. It is defended by a Monthly Subscriber (looks just like a bowman).
- Barbarian warrior is following out scout!
- Googleplex: settler -> spearman

2670 BC:
- Two Microsoft archers seen south of Menlo Park. A warrior is sent to fortify on a mountain, in hopes they will suicide attack it.

2630 BC:
- Some chasing going on, two Microsoft Mindless Minions (impi) joining the fun.

2590 BC:
- Mountain View founded, northwest of Googleplex. It has immediate access to fish and 3 BG's as well as 3 choppable forests.
- Menlo Park: warrior -> warrior (need as many units ASAP to handle the AI)
IBT: Two Microsoft archers die attacking our warrior on a mountain, but a third archer kills him. Mindless minion moves onto road connecting Googleplex and Menlo Park.

2510 BC:
- I'm trying to lure the barb warrior with my scout toward the AI units, in hopes that it will attack them instead of my scout. Let's see if this works...

2470 BC:
- Minion moves onto horses tile. Drat.
- Another archer shows up SE of Menlo Park.
IBT: Minion pillages the horses tile!

2430 BC:
- Googleplex: spearman -> spearman
- Menlo Park: warrior -> spearman
- Well, I'm not going to wait for the archer to attack me. Kill it with a warrior from Menlo Park, which gets redlined
IBT: Minion kills our redlined warrior. Oh well, at least Microsoft gets a golden age in despotism with only two cities :lol:

2390 BC:
- Mountain View: warrior -> worker
- Our scout escapes out of the jungle and heads back to the capital. Where has that barbarian gone?

2350 BC:
- Scout pops a hut really far away near AOL territory. Out comes... a conscript warrior. Whatever, the warrior is sent northward toward Redmond, in hopes of distracting Bill Gates.
- Barb has followed us, right up to a tile next to a mindless minion.
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5363/googleearth2350bc7vf.png
IBT: Mindless minion kills barb. Poor barb, aww...

2310 BC:
- Minion + warrior spotted southeast of Menlo Park. This is in addition to the minion + archer still fortified to the southwest of Menlo Park.

2270 BC:
- Microsoft units continue to advance.
- A new barbarian warrior sighted southwest of Googleplex.

2230 BC:
- Barb approaches Googleplex. Some workers in the way evacuated.
IBT: Spearman guarding Menlo Park wins twice against Microsoft attackers, killing a warrior and an archer. But a minion pillages the road that connects Menlo Park to Googleplex.

2190 BC:
- Mountain View: worker -> warrior

Current situation:
- Microsoft still stuck at two cities. Their start position kind of sucked, wheat + desert.
- Only Microsoft units left in our territory are two minions - doubt they'll take much offensive action, though the pillaging is annoying.
- Bill Gates is actually willing to offer us writing for a peace treaty, but rules are rules. Kill kill kill!
- AOL is getting big. They have six cities now, we will have to watch out and hope they don't become a runaway AI.
- Writing due in 20 turns, we have 112 gold and 8gpt at 10% science and 10% luxury.
- I suspect I may have built a few too many spearmen, typically I prefer to build offensive units to wipe out the enemy before they show up, but no warrior code and no horses makes that difficult. AOL also feels like charging a ton of cash for tech.

Roster:

tupaclives (up)
Andronicus (on deck)
Tone
Sima Qian (just played)

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I have the "ring city placement" locations marked with the red dots in this map.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5909/googleearth2190bc0ij.png

I'd prefer not to settle on the middle dot though, since that's a lot of overlapping tiles.

Just as another heads-up, I never got the chance to build even a single granary yet. So if the attacks start dying down, shift gears into rapid expansion mode ASAP!

Wow! This is going to be like an AW game then.

My intial thought on city placement is that the red dot south of our capital can afford to be a bit closer to Menlo Park as Googleplex and Menlo already have plenty of tiles already. This would enable new city 1 to access several non-jungle tiles and I think that we're going to need a few more good cities before we try to clear jungle. How about something like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/city_plan-SQ1.JPG

Next thing: how are we going to deal with those MMs? We cannot expand if we cannot develop those tiles so we must get rid of them. I must admit that I'm tempted to buy an offensive unit tech from AOL. Alternatives could be (i) getting a rax and pumping out vet warriors or (ii) getting sufficient spears so that we can connect our horses. Both of these mean that we can try to make contact with a possible fourth civ (there normally is four on each continent in vanilla, right?) which will bring the tech price down. The latter option will involve an early GA, which I'd rather avoid if possible, so my first choice is to buy WC with getting stacks of warriors as my second choice. Of course, someone else may have a much better plan.

This looks like it's going to be a great game...

Ok got it, just got back from a hardcore party n not really feeling up to playing now. Power spewed and was goneskies half the night so I'll pick this up in the morning when I've fully regained my faculties. Wish me luck!

My intial thought on city placement is that the red dot south of our capital can afford to be a bit closer to Menlo Park as Googleplex and Menlo already have plenty of tiles already. This would enable new city 1 to access several non-jungle tiles and I think that we're going to need a few more good cities before we try to clear jungle.

Good point. I think I got a bit carried away with figuring out how RCP works.

After reading your comments, I'd suggest something like this:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2114/dotmap2190bc8sn.png

Although my placement is still somewhat RCP-motivated, since the new locations have further rank than Menlo Park and Mountain View, the new location would give access to all three of the cows (shared with Menlo) and also grab a few more tiles.

Typically I also avoid building a city on top of furs, as they are the only luxury resource with a shield bonus, but it does provide the advantage that the AI won't be able to disconnect it so easily, especially if we get a harbor built in that city. So I guess that could work too.

Might also want to send a unit onto that plains tile in the far north, since I had neglected to put a scout there in the early exploration. What if there's an island, or fish or whales out there? Although judging by the tiny little edge of the tile, it's probably just going to be coast -> sea -> ocean.

Next thing: how are we going to deal with those MMs? We cannot expand if we cannot develop those tiles so we must get rid of them. I must admit that I'm tempted to buy an offensive unit tech from AOL. Alternatives could be (i) getting a rax and pumping out vet warriors or (ii) getting sufficient spears so that we can connect our horses. Both of these mean that we can try to make contact with a possible fourth civ (there normally is four on each continent in vanilla, right?) which will bring the tech price down. The latter option will involve an early GA, which I'd rather avoid if possible, so my first choice is to buy WC with getting stacks of warriors as my second choice. Of course, someone else may have a much better plan.

Yeah, that's why I wasn't too annoyed when the AI pillaged the horses tile--didn't want the early GA anyway. Microsoft will have 14 more turns of despotic GA to go, although Redmond has gotten up to size 5 and could be making a settler.

On continents, standard size, typically there are 4 civs per continent, though I've been alone or up against a single other rival on an island at times. I would have explored a bit further to the southwest if it weren't for the barbs :cry: Although if there was a civ out in that direction, they probably ought to have found us by now...

Which tech should we try to buy if we want one? AOL is willing to accept 90 gold for warrior code. Iron working will cost us 110g + 4gpt :eek: and if we don't have iron (chances are slim, since only 2 hills are within our borders) it would be useless anyway.

OK while doing my pre-flight checks I've noticed another bug (possibly to do with the mac port) and that is taht the game quits whenever I hit F4, or click on the foregin advisors icon in the advisors list.

Neway onto my pre-flight check

Cities look good (although at this stage its hard for them to be bad ;))
Defensively things look alright, I must admit I've never played a DAW so I wouldnt know what the front should really look like. An encouraging point is that Microsoft for all their super traits, and for all of their advantages, have only 2 cities inc. their capital! They must have really dodgy lands!

'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, dunno where till we get there!

IBT - Mindless minions move toward Googleplex, Googleplex completes a spear, really wish we had some archers...

Turn 1 - and so on that note I start buy purchasing warrior code for 90gold. Menlo park has grown to size 4 so I up the lux tax to 20% to prevent a riot. Our worker starts mining the BG by Mountain View and a spear from Googleplex moves to cover our 2 exposed workers. Switch Menlo Park to archer due in 1.

IBT - Mindless minions head toward Mountain View.

Turn 2 - move our worker covering spear toward Mountain view (will get there just before the MM's arrive. Move our warrior on the irrigated cow to Googleplex, move the warrior already in googleplex to the two workers who have moved to work a bg in Mountain View's range.

IBT - MM move to the forest by Mountain View.

Turn 3 - move our spear into Mountain View. Have an archer headed toward the MM's.

IBT - 1 MM moves 1 tile off the forest, the other moves onto our road (no mine tho) and pillages. Still it was better than losing a city.

Turn 4 - 2 archers into attacking positions next turn so this turn I just fortify a few dudes and hunker down for the interturn.

IBT - MM pillage one of our mined and roaded BG's :(.

Turn 5 - Googleplex: Archer --> rax, Menlo Park: Worker --> Rax, Mountain View: Warrior --> Worker. A reg archer kills a MM and is yellowlined, and then despite attacking across a river our other archer has exactly the same result (was also a reg archer, we have no raxs I should note). And we are rid of Microsoft's evil influence in our land!

IBT - nothing.

Turn 6 - just some moving around nothing of any interest.

IBT - the 'softies call us up and ask for peace. Pfft yeh right! I'm an apple man through and through! Also interesting to note that MS still only have 2 cities inc. capital. Perhaps they had an early war with AOL? A MS scout moves within range of our con warrior returning from the south.

Turn 7 - Capture the MS scout. zzzz

IBT - barb horses show up. Dang.

Turn 8 - zzzz

IBT - barb horse suicides againstour spear at Menlo Park. AOL establish and embassy with us (:jump: woohoo! Freebie!).

Turn 9 - Everything we have cant buy a MA with AOL against MS. Dang. Our scout spots a MS settle pair. Switch Menlo park to settler. Due in 6.

IBT - another Barb horse shows up.

Turn 10 - meh, nothing of any interest.

Ok there we are. Couldnt' find whether I was meant to play 10 turns or 20 so I've stopped here. if I'm meant to play 20 I'll just do the other 10 if not then the save is already passed on :)

Some thoughts.

Mountain view is working a roaded and mined bg (switched it this turn so no it hasnt been sitting on a worker build waiting for growth). We can change the worker build there if we want as the worker to the north will finish roading that mined bg and as Mountain View grows in the interturn with the road finishing it could be working 2 roaded and mined bg's if we want it to giving it 5 shields (i think losing 1 to corruption), OTOH I love workers so the extra worker would ceratinly not do us any harm. We need to try and mine the cows around Menlo Park soon to up its production to match its growth. rax in Googleplex finishes in 2, suggest either spear --> settler, or settler --> spear. The spear first could be used to cover the settler coming out of Menlo (if you dont change the build that is) and have it settle the dot 1tile S of the unclaimed cow.
MS so far has been very quiet for a deity AI, don't expect it to last. We need more archers as ATM we have 2 reg archers (regs because I wanted to get rid of those MM and didn't have the time for raxs, luckily they both won their fights). Bit dissapointed not to have got to settle any new towns but my settling order would be the dot south of the cow, the dot on the hill 3SW, 1 W of Googleplex then the fur townm but thats just me. I'd rather get 2 settlers out of Googleplex before we get a granary too, normally I'd go for the granary after the first settler but in this case, with so much jungle, I think if we pop the settlers quickly we are better off so we can use the non-jungle tiles as quickly as we can. Like I said though, thats just me.

Good luck Andronicus!

The save

Looking good so far. Cheers for the AOL embassy, saves a nice bunch of gold for us :)

We're actually ahead of Bill Gates by 1 point in score :woohoo:

I did intend the early turnsets to be 20 turns, dropping them down to 10 turns by the industrial age. Andronicus, if you have downloaded the save already and started playing, go ahead and just post a message to let us know that you're doing so. Otherwise tupac can feel free to go on.

I guess between the two of you, whoever is first to post an "I got it" response will continue the game.

As far as bugs are concerned, I'd imagine the problems are probably still being caused by some "faulty" pcx files, or maybe just a strange way that the mac port reads them. I'll see if I can go through them and spot any potential pitfalls, and if I do fix them, I'll post an updated version of them.

EDIT: FYI, since you couldn't see the Foreign Advisor screen, I opened it up, and it says that AOL has RoP with Microsoft. I think we might need to do something to prevent them from getting so warm and cuddly with each other...

Oh, another quick question for Tupac - could you possibly open up the civilopedia and check if reading the articles on the different civs ("tribes" I believe they are called) will also crash the game? How about pressing F7 and checking which wonders are currently in progress?

These would help me narrow down where the problem might be.

Oh ok well in that case, got it :)

And sure thing about the Civpedia. Actually just changed computers back to my main one so I'll have to reinstall the mod. Maybe it'll turn out that its just the computer I'm on...

I'm happy to let Tupac complete his 20 turns

I would support the town site in Tone's dotmap for 1st ring as this site will likely be a strong city so keeping it RCP4 is quite an advantage (rank 1 v rank 6 or 7). I would also consider placing a 2nd ring RCP7 town on north edge of lake to take advantage of the fresh water.

Good move on buying WC :goodjob:

Menlo Park should be readied as 4 turn SF. I recommend 1 settler first to ensure it can use 3rd cow, then granary and let it rip out settlers

I fully support more workers, although another couple of archers will help security

Ok same problem on a different computer so its clearly a problem with the mac port. No problems with the civpedia though. Nor wonders, actually somethign interesting to note is that Redmond is building the oracle which explains why MS have been so quiet.

Pre-turn: Woah things look spectacularly good, the last player must be brilliant! :p

Everything is how I left it ;) so I just hit enter.

IBT - A barb horse redlines our spear in googleplex but dies nonetheless.

Turn 1 (11) - just worker moves, trying to get everything connected.

IBT - MS founds a new town 'Windows' which interferes with the planned city 1 S of the unclaimed cow.

Turn 2 (12) - Googleplex: Rax --> Archer (with settler after, total of 7 turns and growth in 7 so the settler will complete with growth, thats good MM and I didn't even mean it :D). meh, nothing.

IBT - zzzz

Turn 3 (13) - zzzz

IBT - Redmond (MS) finish the Oracle. Now we'll start to see them do something.

Turn 4 (14) - Menlo Park: Settler --> Granary. I realise I've been talking about a city S of the cow, I meant SW. Woops :blush:. Decide to have our con warrior do a little pillaging round Redmond. Settler heads for the SW-of-cow site.

IBT - ok that pillaging wont happen. We lose the con warrior to a swordsman. Oh dear, they may only have 3 cities but they have iron.

Turn 5 (15) - Googleplex: Archer --> Settler (due in 4, growth in 4)
I'd sent our 2 reg archers to the site of MS's new city and this turn they attack, its defended by 1 MM and we lose an archer to take it out. Raze Windows and 'liberate' 7 gold.

IBT - some barb horses and the like... meh nothing interesting.

Turn 6 (16) - Just moving guys around, our stacked workers can finish mining the previously pillaged BG in 2, that was about the most interesting thing in the turn.

IBT - our other reg archer is redlined against a barb horse.

Turn 7 (17) - Worker moves...

IBT - Barb horses...

Turn 8 (18)- Found Web Search. Income jumps to +12gpt. The investors would be pleased :D. MM so that Menlo Park has all 3 cows.

IBT - lose a scout to a barb horse.

Turn 9 (19) - Googleplex: Settler --> Web Crawler (not sure about this, because of the GA, but its the same attack and shield cost as an archer, with an extra mp, of course we cant really use it in the jungle though... still might be nice for policing our land).

Turn 10 (20) - yeh just moving some dudes around

Post turn - ok we have a settler headed 3sw, 1 w of Googleplex, although it needs a garrison. Menlo Park is working on a granary but due to a lack of shields prob wont finish till its nearly size 6... we might want to run workers from it to get the pop down in it once that happens. The other cities can all make 5spt for 2-turn warriors or 4-turn archers/webcrawlers/spears, while Googleplex can easily make 10spt for 2-turn archers/webcrawlers/spears. I would suggest mining the irrigated cow at Googleplex once all other cows and BG's have been worked as Googleplex doesnt really need it irrigated, I feel it would be better off with it mined for the shields and just build settlers everynow and then to keep happiness under control. Other then Menlo Park all other cities are on raxes and I think we need them pumping military with workers to keep the pop under control. Thanks to razing windows MS still only has 2 cities, and when you remember that they started with 2 settlers... well... they're not doing real flash! However they have swords and thats a worry.

Oh well good luck Andronicus and good luck!

Our non-evil, profitable empire!

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5249/picture330zi.jpg
`
The save

Great work with destroying Windows! I think the web crawler would be good for escorting the settler out west, since a UU win against barbs should not trigger a GA, and I doubt the new city over there would be a prime target for Bill Gates either.

My suggestion for the second ring, sort of bringing together comments from Tone and Andronicus:
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9034/dotmap1550bc9dg.png

The two outer cities (far west and far east) are 6 orthogonal ("straight") tiles + 1 diagonal tile from the capital, while the two inner cities (around Web Search) are 3 orthogonal + 3 diagonal. Both should add up to distance 7.5 (1 unit for each orthogonal and 1.5 for each diagonal).

Please correct me if I'm wrong. (I'm kind of new to this RCP thing, never really used it much because most of my other games have been easier than this.)

The dotmap looks good, after the hill where the settler is headed now (to complete our first ring) I would go for the fur town SE of Menlo Park as it would be easier to connect then the silks in the jungle.

@ SQ - your RCPs are correct

There are many ways to skin a cat but FWIW in SP I would have built 2 more southern 1st ring towns - 1NE of Web Search and 1S of current settler pos (to take advantage of rivers) in place of Web Search. Current arrangement is certainly less crowded and since only requires 1 duct may well be best.

Q. what direction are the softies coming from?

I agree next town should be on furs

Do we want another 1st ring town 3N of Googleplex? - it only uses 1 land tile (plains) not avail to Mountain View, although until MV grows above size 6 there will certainly be spare tiles to utilise, after that a harbour should ensure this town good commerce in the future. My feeling is this can wait at present

Research - writing comes in next turn. What does / doesnt IOL have?
MM to make contacts appears a priority, although should be able to rely on AI reseaching.
Maths for cats (although jungle restricts them to our developed area) and progressing to our govt type (presumably monarchy given AW v MS) would be my priorities.
It would be nice to delay GA until out of despotism, but our UU may be of limited value by then.
If MS were strong I feel a case could be made for early despotic GA, however given their slow expansion we should be able to survive and gain more fom later GA

Since you're next I'll take your last post as a "Got it."

Q. what direction are the softies coming from?

For me they've mostly been coming from S and SE of Menlo. Tupac probably experienced the same.

Do we want another 1st ring town 3N of Googleplex? - it only uses 1 land tile (plains) not avail to Mountain View, although until MV grows above size 6 there will certainly be spare tiles to utilise, after that a harbour should ensure this town good commerce in the future. My feeling is this can wait at present

Yeah I also think that will be kind of cramped. Could be a possible location for a safe city when we need more unit support. For now, let's go for the luxes first.

Research - writing comes in next turn. What does / doesnt IOL have?
MM to make contacts appears a priority, although should be able to rely on AI reseaching.
Maths for cats (although jungle restricts them to our developed area) and progressing to our govt type (presumably monarchy given AW v MS) would be my priorities.

A quick look at the save showed me a little bit of this. Don't know what they have in the writing subtree, but they do have masonry, iron working, horseback riding, mysticism, and writing (of course). For all I know they could've gone all the way up to monarchy and construction, but I highly doubt the AI works like that.

It would be nice to delay GA until out of despotism, but our UU may be of limited value by then.
If MS were strong I feel a case could be made for early despotic GA, however given their slow expansion we should be able to survive and gain more fom later GA

I think we can reasonably expect to get a UU victory later on, since the WC can withdraw (better chances if vet or elite, I'm told) and I'm looking forward to cat/cannon/arty stacks to knock AI units down to red. Otherwise, there's also the hope we can pull off a wonder somewhere :mischief:


Oh, and completely off topic, just saw this in the news today:
We are also told that Microsoft is concerned that Apple could release a media centre solution built on the Viiv platform. They know that Apple's iPod strength, iTunes sites and relationship with content providers and vendors who are now delivering home entertainment accessories built around the Apple's 17pin iPod connector will have an impact that could well stop Microsoft gaining a dominant position in the home with Vista.

Source: SmartHouse (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Computing/Software?Article=/Computing/Software/S8Q8K2Q6)

Wonder what this means for us in this game...

Since you're next I'll take your last post as a "Got it."



Yeah - just have to wait for the kids to get off the only computer I can run Vanilla on. Means I havnt been able to look at the save yet - expect I'll be able to play later today

@Andronicus (about city placement) that was actually where I originally was goign to put the city (based on Tone's dotmap) but then looking at it, it featured no other cities between it and the hill city SW of Googleplex so decided to make it a little less cramped. We can always whip a settler there and move it if need be.

@Andronicus (about town 3N of Googleplex) I agree with that city site, but think it would be best later and to be used as a fishing village. Plenty of coast to use so get a harbor there and with the low corruption we have a great fishing village.

Preturn 1550BC
Cant find anything to do :goodjob:

IT
Writing ->

1525BC 1
Trade AOL Masonary for WM + 62g
Research Maths @ 80% -> 23 turns, -1gpt

IT
Googleplex : web Crawler (WC) -> WC
Linux builds Pyramids

1500BC 2
GMail formed on west coast -> rax

IT
McIntosh completes Colossus

1475BC 3
Scout plays hide and seek with MS swords at MS-DOS

1450BC 4
Buy AOL worker for 29g

IT
Googleplex (now 10spt): WC -> WC

1425BC 5
Lux up to 30% as Menlo Pk hits size 5 - we need those lux
Maths now in 18

IT
WC d barb HM @ GMail on defence
Mountain View : Rax -> WC

1400BC 6
MS has settled Windows SE of planned fur town
Settler MM pair approaching from south
See red borders on island off east coast - send WC to look from hill

IT
Googleplex : WC -> Spear

1375BC 7
WC d barbHM @ GMail

IT
Menlo Park : granary -> worker

1350BC 8
vArch d vMM and captures settler -> 2 slaves :D

IT
Googleplex : spear -> spear

1325BC 9
WC d barbHM @ GMail

IT
2/4CW d barbHM -> promotes to elite
Menlo Park : worker -> settler

1300BC 10
trapped scout between MS and AOL abandoned as now req to pay for extra units

IT
Googleplex : spear -> archer
Mountain View : WC -> WC

1275BC 11
All quiet

IT
Spoke too soon - MS sword approaches

1250BC 12
shuffle units

IT
Googleplex : arch -> arch

1225BC 13
lux up to 40% as Menlon Pk size 6 (4.5-6.5 4turn SF operational once fur town settled and can use forest omn growth)

IT
Menlon Park : settler -> settler
Web Search : rax -> archer

1200BC 14
Setter into pos on furs

IT
Googleplex arch -> worker
MV : WC -> WC

1175BC 15
Froogle settled on furs -> walls
Lux down to 20 - maths in 5 @ -4gpt (AOL have learnt CoL, still lack maths)

IT
Googleplex : worker -> archer

1150BC 16
not much - archers gathering to prepare attack on Windows

IT
AOL & MS aquire philosophy

1125BC 17
not much

IT
Spear d barbHM
2 swords approaching Web Search
Googleplex : arch -> arch
Menlon Park : settler -> settler

1100BC 18
Send units to protect Web Search, change build to walls
send settler to western dot

IT
2 more swords en route
MV arch -> spear
GMail rax -> worker (will complete 2 turns before forest chop which should go towards next unit)

1075BC 19
Science down to 50 - maths in 1
eArch d vSw redlined (1-0)

IT
vSp loses to vSw (1-1)
2MMs threaten Froogle (defended by WCs)
Maths -> Currency? (next player can change if wish as no beakers yet)
Googleplex arch -> arch

1050BC 20
@ Froogle
vArch loses to vMM (1-2)
vArch d MM (2-2)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ01_1050BC.JPG

Settler on way to red dot, pink and blue dot may become MS's target next
Wanted to take fight to MS at Windows, but swords at Web Search disrupted my plans
May be better off building cats allowing better odds v swords.
WC have been a bit of a waste so far (other than barb control) as I have avoided using to preserve our GA. Archers with cats can do lots of damage, esp with a couple of spears to absorb attacks.

Trading - we have a maths monopoly allowing a trade for myst + MM for maths, 12gpt + 14g - we need these 2 techs, MM for galleys to meet other people and myst on way to monarchy.
If we do above trade our options include currency, lit or poly. Poly is probably least likely monopoly in 40 turns. IOL and MS may have poly already and / or may be researching lit. As neither has maths, they will not have started currency, and more likely will research construcion first

Settler factory operational from size 4.5 to 6.5 (not 5-7 as has no duct), but does have sufficient shields. It does reqire freq slider use with the multiple changes of size :p
Peeling workers off Googlplex before it gets to size 7, but maintaining 10spt
Worker being porduced at GMail is solely to avoid wasting shields from forest chop (in 5 turns)

Oops! I think I forgot to stress the third variant rule enough, and that was:

"We must maintain a positive cash flow at all times to appease our investors. No deficit spending ever."

As a clarification, that rule is in fact quite strict. Not only does it hamper our research rate, but also if it means we have happiness problems and can't afford it even with science at zero, we will be forced to hire clowns rather than suffer a deficit.

Oh well, what's done has been done, and let's just move on from here. We'll just stick to that in future turns.

Patiently waiting for a red unit to show up on that mountain across the sea there...

I believe Tone is up next. Good luck!

Oops! I think I forgot to stress the third variant rule enough, and that was:

"We must maintain a positive cash flow at all times to appease our investors. No deficit spending ever."

As a clarification, that rule is in fact quite strict. Not only does it hamper our research rate, but also if it means we have happiness problems and can't afford it even with science at zero, we will be forced to hire clowns rather than suffer a deficit.

Oh well, what's done has been done, and let's just move on from here. We'll just stick to that in future turns.



My bad :blush: I plain forgot, hard to change habits.
Perhaps next time I have to maintain +4gpt to make our investors happy :hmm:

I'm glad I checked this thread. Auto-notification didn't happen so I had a bit of reading to do!

OK guys. What's our plan? I'm not quite sure where we're heading but I've seen REX mentioned but I don't believe that's the way to go. I'd like to suggest the following but I want to wait for your approval as it may be a change in direction.

MS is on our doorstep and the only land left to settle is in jungle so I think that in our current situation too many settlers is a bad thing. The only thing they'd give us is extra unit support but we'd need to protect them and roads in jungle are very difficult to build. I've come to the conclusion that WE NEED TO TAKE MS OUT ASAP which means going all out to achieve this.

Short version: Stop producing settlers. Develop first ring with more roads/mines. Pump out units. Take the fight to MS. We have the barracks and technology required to do this.

Some details: The settler from Menlo Park will be the last 4-turn one for a while. Web Search will pump out more shields/turn if it is not working jungle (one of the reasons why I wanted it further north) so one cow will go to this town and it will start producing cats. We can get 5spt from here by giving it a coiw and getting the other citizen to work a mountain. The worker that is clearing jungle will switch to a road so that they are not stuck there and reinforcements can move to this town easily. Menlo Park will become a worker pump once another cow is irrigated. We need workers to road through the jungle. It can regain it's settler pump status later by taking the mined bg from our capital.

The workers by our capital are developing tiles that we don't need for our capital yet whilst other towns are working undeveloped tiles. (Why?) I'm going to mine one of those plains so that Menlo Park can have a mined bg later. Then those worker can get Mountain View and GMail up and running. Additional workers can look to connect silks.

Trade: I agree that MM is a really important tech but we really need to know where that iron is. It can only be in one of three places if they haven't set up a colony: on one of the hills SE of MS-DOS or under their capital. I'd prefer to trade for IW and see if we can pillage their source as well as get some swords of our own. We can't get MM and IW though so I vote for IW and Myst.

Research: If we trade maths they will have access to currency and construction. How about we go for Lit at 40 turns and get a GLib prebuild set up? BTW SQ: selecting the Palace for a prebuild is doing silly things. Each town values it at 1200 shields(!) and also when it is selected it only has room in the box for 10!

Despotic GA: I'll try to avoid it but I think that we may find ourselves having to put up with it. The swords look dangerous and remember that a Deity AI can get them for only 18 shields.

Let me know if you violently disagree with this or I'll go with this plan! I could play now but I don't want to go down this route without agreement. I'll play tomorrow night (GMT) unless I hear from you all beforehand.

Thats what I was trying to get at before when I was saying we could skip the granary. We outnumber MS in cities right now, we can hopefully outproduce them. Archers and spears should be able to take them down, we only have to deal with swords after all and there are just 3 cities.

Also on the subject of a GL prebuild I honestly can't remember the last deity game I played where it was even a possibility. In vanilla the AI DOES put some effort into getting lit. In my last 5 or 6 deity games I've seen the AI go Writing --> MM --> Lit so we really might struggle to get a monopoly on it.

Oh well you'll no what to do, things are fairly good but when you're in trouble there is noone I'd rather have in the team tahn Tone.

Go get 'em son :)

So you have only 4 players? May I join?
Although I'm known to dissapear long periods of time without any warning

Also on the subject of a GL prebuild I honestly can't remember the last deity game I played where it was even a possibility. In vanilla the AI DOES put some effort into getting lit. In my last 5 or 6 deity games I've seen the AI go Writing --> MM --> Lit so we really might struggle to get a monopoly on it.I lack experience in Deity vanilla tech choices. With C3C it is often an overlooked tech but it can be risky. (I played with Team Tao and got it in a vanilla Diety SGOTM though.) With a prebuild I think that the GLib is a possiblity. I'm happy to go with the majority so what do you recommend as an alternative, tupac?

(Your next paragraph appears to be setting me up to be something I'm not!)

Mirc: SQ's the boss so whatever he decides is fine by me.

MS is on our doorstep and the only land left to settle is in jungle so I think that in our current situation too many settlers is a bad thing. The only thing they'd give us is extra unit support but we'd need to protect them and roads in jungle are very difficult to build. I've come to the conclusion that WE NEED TO TAKE MS OUT ASAP which means going all out to achieve this.

Short version: Stop producing settlers. Develop first ring with more roads/mines. Pump out units. Take the fight to MS. We have the barracks and technology required to do this.
I have to agree - guess I tended to be blinded by the prospect of SF, but as you correctly point out, no point building them if we have no-where to put them.
Perhaps worthwhile next settler going to RCP4 hill to north as other sites on RCP7 will be hard to defend

The workers by our capital are developing tiles that we don't need for our capital yet whilst other towns are working undeveloped tiles. (Why?) I'm going to mine one of those plains so that Menlo Park can have a mined bg later. Then those worker can get Mountain View and GMail up and running. Additional workers can look to connect silks.
Yes I was improving too many tiles in capital.

Woah, looks like a lot has happened here. I don't even know where to start.

Perhaps next time I have to maintain +4gpt to make our investors happy :hmm:

Sure, if you feel like it. Should have no problem doing so if your next turnset is a min science run.

Short version: Stop producing settlers. Develop first ring with more roads/mines. Pump out units. Take the fight to MS. We have the barracks and technology required to do this.

I'd also agree, but at least send that settler over to connect the silks. It will need to be defended against barbs, but I doubt MS will go so far out of its way to harrass us there.

If we trade maths they will have access to currency and construction. How about we go for Lit at 40 turns and get a GLib prebuild set up? BTW SQ: selecting the Palace for a prebuild is doing silly things. Each town values it at 1200 shields(!) and also when it is selected it only has room in the box for 10!

Sounds interesting. I think it's doable, since AOL has just lost a bunch of shields from losing the Pyramids to Linux. They probably built a temple, or even a courthouse.

The red border we see off shore is Yahoo!, and they are the only commercial civ aside from AOL and Microsoft. Microsoft is at war with us, and AOL will have to start GLib from scratch once the tech is discovered. I don't know what Yahoo! is up to but since they are so close to our continent I'm actually suspicious that they are on an island to themselves (or maybe one neighbor), rather than on a big continent with a bunch of other civs. So it's doubtful they're going down the path toward literature.

Linux, Sun, Apple, and IBM are not commercial, so I'd think it would take them a bit longer to get to lit and the GLib.

Just got to be careful not to chop any forests in the city that is prebuilding it, since I did that once like the dumb newb that I am and it cost me big time! But since you're all experienced players, I'd imagine you all know this very well already.

Despotic GA: I'll try to avoid it but I think that we may find ourselves having to put up with it. The swords look dangerous and remember that a Deity AI can get them for only 18 shields.

If you can nab the GLib with a despotic GA, I'd say go for it! (Although with mostly cows and BG's around Menlo, I doubt we'll get much shield bonus from that. Perhaps consider building in mountain view?) And even if that fails, I think it's not too unreasonable to expect we have discovered (or accumulated enough gold to buy) construction. Great Wall isn't *that* bad when we have a dangerous enemy on our doorstep.

I agree that MM is a really important tech but we really need to know where that iron is. It can only be in one of three places if they haven't set up a colony: on one of the hills SE of MS-DOS or under their capital. I'd prefer to trade for IW and see if we can pillage their source as well as get some swords of our own. We can't get MM and IW though so I vote for IW and Myst.

I think I'd agree with you on that point, but I don't know why you want Myst. Shooting for monarchy? I'd prefer to let that wait until both our luxes are hooked up and we can have cities grow up past size 6 without happiness problems. I'd prefer just getting IW now, and then save our cash while doing min research on an expensive tech like literature, currency, or construction.

Which city do you want to try to build GLib in? Since you're using palace prebuild, I'd assume it's probably going to be in Menlo, although Mountain View seems like a possibility as well. I think we'd probably be better off with building in Menlo, and pumping out units from MV and bringing them to the front lines.

Either way though, both are coastal, so if we lose GLib, we can try to grab MM at the last moment and switch to lighthouse.

As far as making contact goes, if Yahoo knows anything about how to play they should put a unit up in that mountain so we can see it, but I don't think the AI is that bright :(

So you have only 4 players? May I join?
Although I'm known to dissapear long periods of time without any warning

Sure! Let me know if you can get the mod working, since that seemed to scare away a few other players. The setup instructions are written in Post #7 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3837060&postcount=7) and Post #10 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3838109&postcount=10) if you need to go over them again.

I'll probably go by the 24-hours "got it" rule of thumb before any skipping.

I lack experience in Deity vanilla tech choices. With C3C it is often an overlooked tech but it can be risky. (I played with Team Tao and got it in a vanilla Diety SGOTM though.) With a prebuild I think that the GLib is a possiblity. I'm happy to go with the majority so what do you recommend as an alternative, tupac?

Normally I play pangea and so that could have a significant impact in what techs they choose. If we have the military to handle what MS throws at us then we can risk a prebuild. The alternative (what I've been using in my pangea games) is a run on maths --> currency, if you get maths first its usually worth a bit of leverage (in my most recent game (i knew all 7 other civs tho) it netted writing, philo, CoL, HBR, BW, IW, CB, Myst and then Currency got my construction, lit, Poly, to put me into the MA). But with only 2 civs that we know, and one of them at war with us trading our way to parity would be harder. I'd risk a prebuild, but not in Menlo, if we can at least relatively safely assume that the wonder cascade will be over before the AI get lit.

Also depends what sort of run we do on lit. Not sure (once again due to playing on Pangea probably) about the merits of a min run on it, AOL will probably demand our excess cash away anyway.

Hey tupac, I think I might have another idea why things might not be working properly on the Mac port. I think it's because in MacOS, file paths and file names are case-sensitive, while they are case-insensitive on Windows.

So here's something else to try:
- Go to the directory where Civ3 is installed.
- Is the Art folder written as "Art" or "art"? Make a note of that. I'm going to refer to it as the Art folder (with a capital A) from now on, even though that might not be true.

- Go inside the Art folder. Make a note of these as well:
- Is the Advisors folder written as "Advisors" or "advisors"?
- Is the Leaderheads folder written as "Leaderheads" or "leaderheads"?
- Is the Flics folder written as "Flics" or "flics"?
- Is the Civilopedia folder written as "Civilopedia" or "civilopedia"?

- Go inside the Civilopedia folder.
- Is the Icons folder written as "Icons" or "icons"?

- Go inside the Icons folder.
- Is the Races folder written as "Races" or "races"?
- Is the Units folder written as "Units" or "units"?

- Once you have all of that information, go back to the civ3 root directory, then go into the Text directory and open up pediaicons.txt. Do some find & replace:
- Replace all occurrences of "art\" and "Art\" with the proper capitalization.
- Replace all occurrences of "leaderheads\" and "Leaderheads\" with the proper capitalization.
- Replace all occurrences of "advisors\" and "Advisors\" with the proper capitalization.
- Replace all occurrences of "civilopedia\" and "Civilopedia\" with the proper capitalization.
- Replace all occurrences of "races\" and "Races\" with the proper capitalization.
- Replace all occurrences of "icons\" and "Icons\" with the proper capitalization.

- Also something to consider: replace all backslashes "\" with forward slashes "/" since those are used on Mac.

If you still have trouble, you might want to send me a copy of the backup you made of the original pediaicons.txt, and I will try and see if I can patch it from there. I suspect the other folders, like tech chooser, could also cause some trouble.

EDIT: I just downloaded the Mac GOTM files for comparison and it seems like this has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Sorry about that.

Re lit - GLib prebuild
At deity we may find all avail wonders falling in a cascade.
An insurance policy might be to build 1 more settler than current one being built giving us 10 towns (I think thats enough for FP). Extra town would probably be safe at head of lake.
Min run to lib is 40 turns and Menlo Park can be brought up to 11spt if size 6 using all 2spt tiles (req mining 2 plains tiles and usiong forest)

The main thing that concerns me with the GLib prebuild is the problems with the palace prebuild. Has someone else loked at this to make sure that it's not just me?

If we do prebuild the GLib, we shouldn't start too early as our palace should only hold 200 shields and we have no other wonder to switch to beyond this. 200 shields by the time it is available should be enough of a headstart as long as we don't lose out to a wonder cascade. Let's hope that all wonders are build before anyone gets Lit. FP insurance sounds like a good idea but we should be able to get at least one settler out (or capture a town) before we hit 200 shields so I'd rather let the last settler be the one in the very near future. I was not suggesting a complete halt on new towns BTW-just a temporary one until we have more troops.

Backtracking a little, I suggested Myst as well as IW as we might as well get full value for our tech. I'd rather get another tech for a couple of gpt than some of their spare cash as it's better value in the long run.

I had been thinking we need to head down monarchy path being locked into AW with MS
If we can eliminate MS from the game we are free to be republic with all its commerce advantage

@Tone: I don't know if this is also a bug I have here, but it looks like palace costs 1200 shields when I loaded the save. The civilopedia says 400 shields, but 170 turns on a 7spt does take us up to around 1200 shields.

Right now I'd say it's reasonably safe to go for a min run on lit, or possibly try it at 40% science (31 turns, 4gpt surplus). At size 6 we can probably expect 2 corrupted shields in Menlo Park, and if each worker is on a 2-shield tile we'll get 10spt. We'll have 1/3 of a palace by then, ready to switch to GLib.

I'm still of the opinion that AOL is likely the tech leader at the moment, since MSFT had 4 starting techs, all of which they probably traded. CORRECTION: I was wrong in my previous post. I confused myself and said Yahoo was commercial. No, Yahoo is expansionist/industrious.

Apple started with BW/CB, Sun with BW/Masonry, IBM with BW/WC, Linux with CB/Masonry, Yahoo with Pottery/Masonry. AOL was the only civ that started with alphabet. And since they don't have lit yet, I think we can pretty safely assume that the other civs probably aren't close to lit either. So AOL is probably the only civ that will compete with us for the Glib, and the cascade from pyramids was over (see the F7 screen), so they are going to start from scratch.

Now, considering the case of AOL: their capital is only size 2, and from what we can see in the map all their other cities are also size 1 or 2. Assuming they have a granary (and they might actually not), and 3 surplus food per turn, that's 4 turns per growth. Let's consider the worst case scenario, where the city grows next turn, and they discover lit.

Even if it grows to size 3 next turn, it will take 12 turns before they hit size 6. If the citizens work 2-shield tiles, they will accumulate:

6 shields @ size 3 * 4 turns = 24 shields.
8 shields @ size 4 * 4 turns = 32 shields.
10 shields @ size 5 * 4 turns = 40 shields.
TOTAL: 96 shields before they reach size 6.

Two BG's, a cow, three forests (one with furs) and a hill are within the city radius for Welcome Screen. So by size 6 they will be able to get 12 spt with no food surplus, but my experience with the AI is that if they can ever have a food surplus in a city, they will. If that's the case, I'd estimate closer to 10 or 11 spt, depending on corruption.

For deity AI, GLib costs 60% * 400 = 240 shields, so they will build it in 20 turns starting from scratch if they have 12spt, 22 turns if 11spt, 24 turns if 10spt. If they already had 96 shields going into size 6, they would only have 144 shields to go, and will take 12 turns at 12spt, 14 turns at 11spt, 15 turns at 10spt.

Suppose I make the best case for Menlo Park now: we currently have 15 shields devoted to Settler, none of which came from chopping. It is making 7 spt after corruption, but it will grow to size 6 next turn. So after 1 turn, we will have 22 shields. Then let's steal the mined BG from Googleplex, and we will have 12 shields, 10 uncorrupted. 400 - 22 = 378 shields to go on GLib, or 38 turns.

38 turns for us to build GLib versus 24 turns for AOL... sounds kind of bleak. But let's not panic yet. Several things could happen:

1. AOL might not discover lit next turn.
2. Welcome Screen might not have a granary.
3. Welcome Screen could be producing settlers or workers, reducing their growth substantially.
4. Welcome Screen could be building other improvements or units.

So how will we pull it off? A combination of a variety of possibilities:

1. AOL does not discover lit for another 14 turns.
2. Welcome Screen does not have a granary, meaning that they take at least 7 turns per growth, and will only reach size 6 after 22 turns minimum. In those 22 turns, they will accumulate at most 4 + 6 * 7 + 8 * 7 + 10 * 7 = 172 shields, leaving 68 shields for the GLib. At size 6, they can do the rest in 6 turns, so that takes them up to 28 turns for GLib, *assuming they discover lit next turn* Which means that if Welcome Screen does not have a granary, we can beat them to the GLib if they discover lit at least 10 turns later.
3. Welcome Screen produces a settler or worker. They will be back to size 1, and it will take them 5 * 4 = 20 turns to get up to size 6 (with a granary), or 5 * 7 = 35 turns to get up to size 6 (without a granary). Should set them back plenty for us to get the GLib.
4. Welcome Screen is producing an improvement or unit. Depending on how long it takes for them to finish that, it will also delay when they can start the GLib.
5. The tiles around Welcome Screen are not yet improved with mines. If they don't have BG's mined, they won't be able to get as much spt. I don't know how long ago our scout wandered around there, but their workers are not industrious, and remember that we've bought two of them already.
6. Get a Great Leader while fighting MS and rush it! :lol:

So, depending on how likely you think these possibilities are, you can make a decision as to whether or not to try for the GLib. Personally I'd give it a go.

Right now it costs 46 gold to investigate the AOL capital. Not enough in our treasury to find out what's going on :( But keep an eye on their pop and their techs.

@Tone: I don't know if this is also a bug I have here, but it looks like palace costs 1200 shields when I loaded the save. The civilopedia says 400 shields, but 170 turns on a 7spt does take us up to around 1200 shields.
Your palace cost is going to range from 400 to 4000 shields (since normal is 100 to 1000), apparently.

@Tone: I don't know if this is also a bug I have here, but it looks like palace costs 1200 shields when I loaded the save. Did you check out the other part? The 'bin' only has room for 10 shields. I'm concerned that if we use the palace for a prebuild it may not store the correct number of shields or even complete the palace early. Also is using the palace beyond 200 shields a cheat?

Right now I'd say it's reasonably safe to go for a min run on lit, or possibly try it at 40% science (31 turns, 4gpt surplus). The variant we are playing means we must run a positive gpt and I think that when we pump out more units we will only be able to run min research for a time.

I think that your analysis shows that we can give the GLib a try. We might also consider an alliance with AOL. I'll look later and play tonight. I've got a test to write for this morning first.

Did you check out the other part? The 'bin' only has room for 10 shields. I'm concerned that if we use the palace for a prebuild it may not store the correct number of shields or even complete the palace early. Also is using the palace beyond 200 shields a cheat?

Yeah I only saw 10 shields in that 'bin' too. But I wouldn't consider it a cheat to use palace beyond 200 shields. I've used it regularly for 400 shields in my solo games (before 1.29 patch).

BTW Tupac let me know if you tried my last suggestion for repairing the mod, I'd like to make it so that your game works so that you can choose tech and check the F4 screen without problems.
EDIT: Doh! I don't think I have this figured out yet. Never mind...

Thank you!
Could you excuse me some days? You know what problem I have.... I hope I will get well soon.

Thank you!
Could you excuse me some days? You know what problem I have.... I hope I will get well soon.

I see. Best wishes to you then.

I originally wanted to let you have the next turnset after Tone, but if you're not feeling well and want to ask for a skip, please do so.

Let someone else play this set.

1050BC (0)
I wake one plains irrigator and get him to mine. The worker clearing jungle is woken to road instead. Switch citizen from forest to roaded plains for additional commerce. Trade maths, 4gpt and 3gp for IW and Myst. The iron is under Redmond! Switch research to Lit. I then await the sword onslaught on Web Search

IT
The attack starts badly for us with their vet sword killing our defending spear. However our archers then successfully defeat the attacking reg swords :lol: I'd be shouting at the screen if the boot was on the other foot! Wounded MM withdraws away from furs town.
MS founds Word in the jungle.

Web Search: walls>cat.

1025BC (1)
I take the cow from Menlo and give it to Web as I said I would be doing. I also hire a taxman rather than up lux for this town. Elite archer attacks the surviving 2/4 sword outside Web and wins (just!).

IT
MM appears outside Froogle
Google: archer>worker
Menlo: settler>worker

1000BC (2)
Nothing much. I keep the new settler in place so that we can use it to replace Windows if we manage to go on the offensive.

IT
Google: worker>archer
M-View: spear>spear
G-mail: worker>spear

975BC (3)
zzz

IT
Menlo: worker>palace

950BC (4)
Vet archer kills MM that dared to enter our territory. Move to road towards Windows.

IT
Contact! A Yahooligan moves onto the mountain.
Google: archer>archer
Web Search: cat>cat
Froogle: walls>settler

925BC (5)
Yahoo! don't have contacts! They don't have maths but they do have MM so we trade maths, getting MM and 70g in return. I hold back on selling contacts just in case a decent tech deal comes up.

We are now at only 2gpt but the plains mine will be completed next turn. Even though we are building the silks town this turn, I decide to hire a scientist in our capital enabling us to switch off science and reduce lux to 10%.

Scholar (galley) is built by the silks.

900BC (6)
zzz

IT
Google: archer>archer
M-View: spear>settler

875BC (7)
zzz

IT
Softy sword appears just as road to Windows is built.
G-Mail: spear>spear

850BC (8)
I withdraw from the sword. He can come to us as I'll be ready to strike very soon.

IT
AOL settler appears in our second ring area. They are spreading fast.
Google: archer>archer
Web Search: cat>cat

825BC (9)
zzz

IT
Our vet spear is killed by a vet MS sword. It is redlined though.
Linux have built the Hanging Gardens in Helsinki.
Yahoo! have researched CoL and still have not got contact with any other civ. Time for a bit of trading I feel.

800BC (10)
Buy Phil from AOL for 163g and then sell it to Yahoo! for CoL and their remaining 32g.
Elite archer kills the sword. Four archers, a spear, a settler and a cat march on Windows.

IT
Google: archer>archer

775BC (11)
The cat does nothing. I move two more archers and a spear outside Windows whilst the spear and archers already there move across the river.

IT
AOL dec war on the Softies.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/AOL_dec_war.JPG
A couple of Softy archers head for Menlo

750BC (12)
Bombard archers near Menlo and then take them out with our archer reserves.

Bombardment of Windows does nothing but I decide to attack anyway. We need to settle that town. First archer kills MM, losing only one hp and takes the town.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Windows_crashes.JPG

Deity town defended by one unit?!! We also get four slaves.

Menlo has grown so I hire a scientist there and switch Google to a settler. Up lux so that Google will grow in two turns and Menlo can claim the bg.

IT
Softies request an audience but we decline. Softy sword kills a spear as we advance on Redmond. Barb horse approaches Scholar from the West.

M-View: settler>worker
Web Search: cat>cat

AOL have made contact with Apple.

730BC (13)
Build Print SW of Windows ruins. (galley). Archer kills MS sword (just). Switch production in Froogle to a rax.

IT
Google: settler>spear-will need to work forest for 10spt.

710BC (14)
Build Video N of our capital.

IT
Barb horse impales itself on our spear in Scholar
M-View: worker>spear

690BC (15)
zzz

IT
Google: spear>archer
AOL has Poly and Construction. MS has Poly.

670BC (16)
Scout lands next to barb camp.

IT
Scout killed.
Web Search: cat>cat.
MS finally has maths.

650BC (17)
Troops are at the gates of Word and Redmond.

IT
Two swords appear and take out our covering spear outside Redmond.

Google: archer>spear
G-mail: spear>spear

AOL is in Monarchy

630BC (18)
Archers attack word. Fist kills a MM. 2nd loses but the third razes the town.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Word's_time_is_up.JPG

Desktop is built close to the ruins.

I've just noticed QuickTime in the West. I dispatch a spear to make contact.

I decide against an attack on Redmond with two swords about so I attack them. Both archers win, one promoted to elite status.

610BC (19)
A sword has just left Redmond so I take a chance and decide to attack it with our 5 archers. It's risky but the prize is great. 1st archer redlines a vet MM but loses. 2nd loses. 3rd redlines the defender but loses, creating an elite MM. Sorry! I decide to call off the assault as another vet MM steps up. I think that we need cats for this one guys. Road is currently under construction to get through the jungle.

IT
Linux and AOL have signed an alliance vs MS.
Google: spear>archer
M-View: spear>spear

590BC (20)
zzz

Notes:

I was going to suggest that well sell contact with Yahoo! as they have a galley heading towards other civs but two barb galleys have appeared. We can afford to hold on IMO; they might KO the Yahoo! galley. We will have another contact next turn-maybe that'll bring new options.

Apologies again for the feeble attack on Redmond. I thought that they might be preoccupied with AOL but not enough as it turns out. Once we get that road through the jungle though we will be able to get cats there. It might just make a difference but archers against MM on a hill is still going to be tough. maybe an iron colony is a requirement.

We have a very healthy gpt now. Maybe it's time to up lux and get that extra citizen in Menlo working and mine that horse tile? (We currently have 134 shields in the bin BTW, even though it looks empty!) It'll take 20% more on the lux slider IIRC to get the sixth person working but it's only needed in the short term. We've just moved two workers on the silks so we'll have them connected in 5 turns. It'll be worth keeping a spear there as there could still be barbs around in the area.

I was a little worried about MS swords when I took over but how wrong I was. They are now really up against it with so many enemies. Have fun!

Web Search is up to 6spt so maybe we can build something other than cats there? Just a thought.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Eric_Schmidt_of_the_Googlers,_0590_BC.SAV)

Sima Qian (up next)
tupaclives (on deck)
Andronicus
Tone (just played)
Mirc (skipped)

BTW I'm going to Switzerland for a week or so and I won't have access to the Internet. I leave on Friday so please skip me if (when) I come up. I'll sign in when I return.

Well done Tone! Nothing less than what I would have expected from one of the masters. :worship: Hope you enjoy your time in Switzerland.

I'm going to tentatively post a "Got it," although there has been some "civil disorder" here in Los Angeles lately (500,000 people in the streets protesting against the immigration bill going through the U.S. Congress). This will probably only affect me as much as worsening traffic and reducing my free time. But it should be over by now.

The AOL expansion is looking pretty threatening now. I think we might have a fight for the spoils of war coming up.

I'll post more once I get a chance to look at the save.

Eh, looks like the civfanatics.net server is down. Did anyone else have another copy of Tone's save downloaded that you can post in some other way?

My link doesn't work but others on the site do. Try this attachment.

Edit: links are down but attachments work fine for me so hopefully you'll be OK now, SQ.

Great. Got that save loaded up perfectly.

Just as a heads up to you people, take a look at this announcement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?f=67&a=393) and plan accordingly.

Ok, looked at the save, most things seem fine. These are just a few of my pre-turn observations.

I think I might switch a spear or two to a settler, as I'm fairly confident that Microsoft will get killed off during my turnset. Tone did a great job in setting up the upcoming assault. It seems like his unfortunate luck with the attack on Redmond has kept us under our unit support limit, but if things keep going as they are we'll need more cities to avoid paying for our military.

I'll try to take Redmond last, but is the Oracle even worth keeping? I have a hunch that we might not get our first temple built until after theology, if ever.

Also, if Yahoo survives the barbs I'll be tempted to trade contact. Seems like AOL already has contact with all the other civs. They're not giving much of a discount on tech when I put contact on the table, but they seem fairly eager to trade me contact with the other civs. If I end up buying contact, I'm probably going to switch off the galley builds to a land unit or city improvement (probably barracks or harbor in most cases).

I think I might switch a spear or two to a settler, as I'm fairly confident that Microsoft will get killed off during my turnset.That's fine by me. We need settlers accompanying our troops to claim the land left after auto-razing MS towns. Just remember that Redmond will produce a sword every three or four turns. I suggest that you consider the iron colony idea for swords as well. Archers have had their day.

Tone did a great job in setting up the upcoming assault. It seems like his unfortunate luck with the attack on Redmond has kept us under our unit support limit, but if things keep going as they are we'll need more cities to avoid paying for our military.You're being kind. It wasn't unfortunate; it was poor judgement, based on Windows only having one defender. I guess you live and learn! BTW, personally I wouldn't be too worried if we go over our unit support as our core are working roaded tiles in the main.

I'll try to take Redmond last, but is the Oracle even worth keeping? I have a hunch that we might not get our first temple built until after theology, if ever.It's a free town. If you do leave it until last (and you manage to get to it before AOL et al) then keep it. The Oracle is of little/no value but it can't flip, or have you left respawn on? Additionally we've got to be careful about razing too many towns as the AIs attitude will deteriorate. I always prefer to attack on my own terms rather than respond to an AI attack so not upsetting all AIs is useful in this respect.

Also, if Yahoo survives the barbs I'll be tempted to trade contact.Agreed. Seems like AOL already has contact with all the other civs. True, but contacts are valuable. We should be able to get contacts with the galleys so I'd rather not give away too much cash, but it's your call in the end. If we can trade contacts for contacts (and maps?) then I'd say go for it. Maybe wait a turn until we get the new contact and when we are ready to trade contact with Yahoo?

OK, here goes.

590 BC (Turn 0):
- Check F7. AOL is not building any wonders (yay). Yahoo! is building Great Lighthouse, but it is NOT in their capital city (I know this because I picked the city names), so there will be some corruption eating away at their shields there.
- Redmond is size 1. Did they just pop rush something, or produce another settler/worker?
- Check F3. Microsoft has captured 2 workers from AOL (got a settler maybe?)
- Check F4. Yahoo! has no contact with any other civs at the moment. I'll keep it like that for now, want to see the upcoming battle with the barbarian galleys.
- Check F8. Yahoo is pretty far up there in score, uhoh.
- Check F11. WOAH. Linux has a size 12 city already!

- Menlo Park switched over to Great Lighthouse, which has same price as Great Library. Due in 30 turns. (This is actually something new to me, since I'm used to 300 shield cost in Vanilla 1.07.)
- Hit enter.

IBT:
- Yahoo galley gets attacked by 3 barbs, and kills them all!
- With IBM joining in the alliance, Bill Gates' days are numbered.
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1822/googleearth590bc8li.png

570 BC (1):
- Web Search: catapult -> spear
- Moving units toward the front lines at Redmond.
- I'm actually going to switch GMail from spearman to settler. I want to build a city on top of the lake (across from TIME) so that the iron is within our borders.

IBT:
- Yahoo galley moves out of sight in the west.
- AOL asks to trade contact with Yahoo for contact with Apple. I refuse, since I'm about to meet them at QuickTime.

550 BC (2):
- Googleplex: archer -> archer
- Workers finish mining plains by Googleplex, so I work that tile now instead of unroaded forest.
- Spearman makes contact with Apple. They're quite a bit ahead of AOL in score, over 1000 already. And not surprisingly, they have a TON of culture, although about on even terms with AOL in power. Techs avail: HBR, Poly, Construction.
- Apple is also building the Great Lighthouse.
- Another spearman walks onto iron, notices a barb horse preparing to attack TIME.

IBT:
- Barb dies attacking TIME.
- Macs begin building the Great Wall.
- Another Yahoo galley appears off our coast.

530 BC (3):
- A blue city, z/OS is spotted (IBM). We can make contact in 5 turns.
- A red city, Flickr, is also spotted (Yahoo). I think Yahoo and Apple are going to make contact very soon.

IBT:
- some AI unit shuffling
- Linux builds the Great Wall. Dangit, Helsinki is hogging all the wonders.

510 BC (4):
- Googleplex: archer->archer
- Googleplex has grown, I create a taxman.
- Mountain view: spearman->galley

- Another AOL settler seen, escorted by Monthly Subscriber.
- AOL has currency. Asks for contact w/ Yahoo, WM, 326g, 22gpt. No way I'm doing that.
- Yahoo still hasn't made contact with Apple. This might be our last chance. So I trade. Contact with Yahoo nets us Contact with Linux + HBR + 3g.
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8649/googleearth510bc19my.png
- Linux: score 828, second place. Techs: poly, construction. Pretty strong in power and culture though not as much as Apple. 14 cities under their control, two of which have names that show they were captured from IBM and Sun, either through war or culture.
- Sell HBR to Yahoo before any more contacts are made. We earn 97 gold.
- In case Apple sells contact with Yahoo to AOL, I do this: Sell contact for Contact with Sun, Territory map, 45 gold, 2gpt.
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/299/googleearth510bc25gt.png
- Jackpot! Sun has polytheism but doesn't have a bunch of other techs that we have. I sell Map making to them because they have extra luxes, and would like them to set up harbors soon so trading will be possible. MM+contact+territory map for contact with IBM, polytheism, their territory map, 8 gold.
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/737/googleearth510bc39jm.png

- IBM is on tech parity with us. Nothing I can buy from them at the moment.
- So, since contact with Yahoo will likely be traded among the AI, I will take all the advantage I can of it now:
- Sell polytheism to Yahoo. They offer nothing but their world map.
- Sell contact to IBM. I get TM + 10g.
- Sell contact to Linux. I get TM + 3g.
- Trade WM for WM with Sun. I find Apple's map from that.
- Trade WM for WM with Apple, Linux, IBM after that. Before that trade with Sun, they all wanted gold from me.
- Sell WM to AOL for 6g + 2gpt.
- Since we have contact with all civs, I change galley builds to other improvements. Scholar -> barracks. Mountain View -> horseman. Print -> barracks. Googleplex also -> horseman.

IBT:
- Watched 2 swords from Redmond attack successfully, don't know what they were attacking but must have been AOL units.
- Great Lighthouse now under construction by every civ except AOL, and none of these are in capitals.

490 BC (5):
- Web Search: spearman -> horseman
- Elite archer attacks and kills archer near Redmond

IBT:
- AOL builds another city, Warner Bros.

470 BC (6):
- Silk road completes!
- Froogle: barracks -> temple?? (to relieve cultural pressure from Yahoo)
- Menlo Park gets its scientist to work a tile. Science raised to 10%.

IBT:
zzzzz

450 BC (7):
- Googleplex: horseman -> horseman
- GMail: settler -> harbor (not too sure about this)

IBT:
- A stack of 3 monthly subscribers leave TIME.

430 BC (8):
- Just moving some units around, sending archers to Windows.

IBT:
- AOL units defeat a MS archer by Windows.

410 BC (9):
- Mine built on horses. Every citizen in Menlo Park is working a 2-shield tile.

IBT:
- Apple declares war on AOL.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8853/googleearth410bc1ih.png
- Some AOL units get killed attacking Windows and MS-DOS.
- Massive barbarian uprising near Scholar!

390 BC (10):
- Googleplex: horseman -> horseman
- Mountain View: horseman -> settler
- Found Talk, we now have iron in our borders. Building barracks.

IBT:
- Apple begins building the Great Library (!!!)

370 BC (11):
- Linux has republic.
- Apple got currency, monarchy, lit. Clearly some tech trading happened.
- Googleplex has grown to size 7, one citizen turned into scientist, science set back to 0%.

IBT:
- Yahoo lands a Yahooligan on horses by Menlo Park. What could they be up to?
- AOL starts work on Sun Tzu's (!!!!)
- Linux also starts GLib

350 BC (12):
- Web Search: horseman -> settler
- I can't ask the Yahooligan to leave or declare war, so I leave him alone.
- 2 archers kill 2 MM's and raze Windows.

IBT:
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4148/googleearth350bc6cr.png
- Yahoo declares war on us!
- Yahoo kills a warrior defending Menlo Park.

330 BC (13):
- Googleplex: horseman -> horseman
- Horseman kills Yahoo spearman
- Horseman kills Yahooligan
- Build embassies with all the other civs. Everyone wants a lot of gold for an alliance. I think this was a bad move, since I'd probably prefer to keep this war short, and not have to deal with alliances. I did, however, get to see this:
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/5709/googleearthdiplo7qa.png

IBT:
- Linux completes the Great Lighthouse. Uhoh.
- Yahoo lands spearman + 3 Yahooligans outside of our borders near Print.

310 BC (14):
- Menlo Park switches back to Palace prebuild. Lit due in 6 turns still.
- Vet horseman kills Yahoo spearman.
- 2 Vet horsemen kill 2 Yahooligans.

IBT:
- Yahooligan attacks horseman and dies.

290 BC (15):
- Mountain View: settler -> horseman
- Scholar: barracks -> archer
- 2 archers kill 2 MM's, raze MS-DOS, capture 2 workers. Strangely, they are AOL nationality.
- 5 cats bombard Redmond, only one damages a MM
- Elite archer kills MM
- Elite archer kills MM
- 3 Vet archers die to a single MM (grr)
- 4th Vet archer kills MM, captures Redmond
- Our evil nemesis Microsoft has been eliminated!
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1866/googleearth290bc2aw.png

IBT:
- Lots of movement of AOL units around Redmond. Scary, but let's hope they don't declare war.
- Sun and IBM begin building GLib. What fun.

270 BC (16):
- Googleplex: horseman -> horseman
- I'm sending units over to Flickr, the Yahoo settlement on our continent.

IBT:
- Yahoo lands a single Yahooligan near Redmond.

250 BC (17):
- Web search: settler -> swordsman (heh, iron from Redmond)
- Desktop: catapult -> settler
- Video: harbor -> galley
- Vet archer kills Yahooligan.

IBT:
- Yahoo lands swordsman + spearman + Yahooligan near Redmond.

230 BC (18):
- Elite archer kills sword. Elite archer kills spear. Vet archer kills Yahooligan.
- Our horses meet up with a barb by Flickr. Will they help us or hurt us?
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5233/googleearth230bc3ed.png

IBT:
- Barbarian horseman *redlines* the spearman guarding Flickr for us!
- Yahoo lands spearman by Redmond.

210 BC (19):
- Googleplex: horseman -> swordsman (??)
- Raze Flickr. That's a no-brainer.
- Vet archer kills Yahoo spearman.

IBT:
- AOL settler seen near Redmond... will it beat us to the gems?
- Linux starts working on Sistine Chapel (!!)

190 BC (20):
- Lit researched. Menlo Park converts prebuild to GLib, due in 5 turns.
- Print: barracks -> harbor (not much else I can think of...)
- This shouldn't do a thing to our rep, but I wiped out the barb camp that helped us take Flickr. Thanks barbs, but we don't need you anymore :lol: (25 gold!)
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2703/googleearth190bc0bs.png


Current situation:

- Yahoo is willing to sign peace. They'll even cough up 9 gold for it.
- GLib is due in 5 turns. I don't know if that will be enough. If it isn't, could we possibly put Menlo back on palace and save shields for Sun Tzu's or Leo's?
- Linux is the only civ we can make luxury deals with at the moment, since they can trade over ocean tiles.
- I have a settler moving toward the gems, hopefully it will reach them before AOL does.

Roster:

tupaclives (up next)
Andronicus (on deck)
Tone (if back from Switz.)
Mirc (???)
Sima Qian (just played)

I have to finish off my update for Tupacatha's Most Excellent Adventure, then I have to play my turns for Tupac02, so I'll not get to this for a day or 2. Hope thats alright.

That's fine. I'm not that strict with deadlines.

A couple other things I forgot to mention:

- Yahoo is probably in their GA now (in monarchy too). Triggered on turn 12 of my set, so it'll last well into Tupac's.
- Froogle is building temple, probably useless. Switch it to a lib maybe?
- Research set to min on Republic. If you want to change it and have some difficulty doing that in your game, just let me know and I'll switch it for you.

Looking good! Nice trading SQ!:goodjob:

Do we know if there was a cascade from the GLHouse to the GLib? If not then we should be safe.

Our evil nemesis Microsoft has been eliminated!

So its Republic we want?

@Tone: Unfortunately I think there was a cascade, GLib is being built in several of the AI's coastal cities now, so chances are they carried over the shields from Lighthouse.

@Andronicus: We have neither tech for republic or monarchy as of my last turn. Yahoo is still at war with us, although it's Tupac's call whether or not we want peace yet. I'm actually tempted to raze a few of Yahoo's coastal cities to relieve the cultural pressure they have on us, or maybe stack a few units in their territory and get them to surrender some tech to us. But that's probably just wistful thinking, as we don't even have galleys built yet.

With the settler going to the gems I think it'll be good to get currency soon, as those markets will give an extra happy face to our third lux.

So its Republic we want?If I'm reading your post correctly, I agree that (now that we will not be at war constantly) we should aim for Republic.

@Tone: Unfortunately I think there was a cascade, GLib is being built in several of the AI's coastal cities now, so chances are they carried over the shields from Lighthouse.During the IT when it was announced that the GLH was built you would also get notification of any civs that started buiding the GLib, implying these are cascades. If you don't remember this, we could look at any saves you have before the GLH was built to see if the site is the same for failed GLH builds and current GLib builds. Alternatively we could investigate the cities or just hope for the best. I'm happy to go with the finger crossing option but I'm just curious. :)

@Tone: Yeah I think there were pop-ups like that, for Apple and Yahoo. Seems like I messed up my estimation, I had been stuck in the v1.07 mentality thinking that GLhouse cost 300 shields and would be built very early on. It was a bit of a surprise to see them take so long to build it.

Only three turns passed between Apple starting GLib and Linux finishing GLhouse. Darn! So close to breaking the cascade!

Seems like I messed up my estimation, I had been stuck in the v1.07 mentality thinking that GLhouse cost 300 shields and would be built very early on. GLH normally does cost 300 in 1.29f as well! I think that this is another change caused by the alterations you've made but I've no idea why. I checked using CAII (as I'm using my drive to transfer music to my MP3 at the moment) and I also note that cathedrals will only cost 140 shields in this game. Do you think that it anything to do with one civ getting all traits?

Edit: FP costs 300 rather than the usual 200 and Wall Street also costs more than usual. Can anyone see a connection?

Woah! I'm starting to suspect I did something very wrong with my patching. Was I supposed to apply v1.16, v1.17, v1.21 and such before installing v1.29?

Or maybe I'm just a very inept modder (probably the more likely scenario). Oh well, too late for me to go change anything with that now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I've no idea! You might get an idea in the C&C forum. We'll just have to keep our eyes open as new things become available. I might scroll through the various pages of CAII with one of our saves to see if other units/improvements have an altered cost. It's no real problem though so, as tupaclives might say, no worries!

GAAAH!!! Clearly I should've done some extra testing before releasing this mod. And I call myself a software engineer! Shame on me!


I think what happened is that some of the pre-patch rules somehow sneaked their way into the .bic file for this game. I loaded that up and indeed found several differences between that and the civ3mod.bic file (default rules).

It seems like in v1.29 synthetic fibers has prereq as just ecology, not recycling, yet the v1.07 rule that requires recycling managed to work its way into this as well. UGH.

And I think the palace cost is bugged, 1200 shields obviously isn't right. In the v1.29 rules, palace cost should be 1/4 of that.

Well, best of luck to Tupac...

Pre-flight

Everything looks good, well as good as I can actually see :lol: I check the demo's and we are first in approval, pollution and annual income (the investors would be pleas). Dont know how we rate anywhere else as I can't see it :rolleyes: decide to keep going with the Great Library, we might nab it at the death, who knows? Personally I wouldn't have expected to even get as close as we have. Switch Talk to a lib (did we really need to build it at ICS to the AOL city?) and Web Search to a settler.

IBT - Apple starts Sun Tzu's. Hopefully thats what they cascaded too.

Turn 1 - Froogle: Temple --> Sword.
Use our archers around Redmond to make a human (ok, pixel) wall blocking the AOL settlers. Bombard Yahoo galley.

IBT - Apple completes the Great Library :(
I never thought we had a chance of getting it but we almost got there... almost.

Turn 2 - Switch Menlo to palace, maybe we can get something to go for instead before everything is built. I see what you mean about the palace... it only has 1 shield in each line... how odd and will take 113 turns. At least we;ll never have to worry about it finishing too early :lol:
I decide I want something to build other than military so time for some trading (my trading skills are not the best so if anyone would tell me what I could have done better that would be great)
Check around, everyone has monarch, some have currency, some have construction, Linux also has republic and would sell for silks, furs + 450gold... :hmm:
Buy Republic for 450 gold + silks + furs (I really hope thats a secure trade route... I would hate to have be the one to kill our rep this early...)
Buy Construction from apple for 430gp (nearly all our left over gold)
Buy Currency from Sun Systems for Construction +8gp + 3gpt.

We are into the Middle Ages and we get monotheism as our free tech.

Everyone in the MA already has Feudalism and Monotheism but AOL lacks Republic. Sell it to AOL for Feudalism + 6gp + WM.
Sell it to IBM for Monarchy + 6gp + WM

All up spent 876gp, silks, furs, 3gpt and got
Construction
Currency
Monotheism
Republic
Feudalism
Monarchy
an updated world map.

As I said, advice as to what I could have done better/differently would be greatly appreciated.

Research gets set to Chivalry, sorry guys I can't change this :sad: Would way prefer it to be Engineering but there you go, Chivalry's not all bad, we could do a big upgrade of Web Crawlers to knights if we wanted to.

After all that excitement the rest of the turn is very dull. Switch a few cities to markets in preparation of getting the gems online and revolting to Republic.
Switch Menlo to Sun Tzu's (due in 22, almost def wont get it)

IBT - nothin'

Turn 3 - Found Blogger. Found Orkut and gems are online. Drop lux slider by 10 and we are at +43gpt. Remember I was meant ot whip the library in Talk 2 turns ago. Thats just sloppy on my part.

IBT - Yahoo lands a spear by Menlo.

Turn 4 - use cats to weaken the spear and then watch in dismay as a vet sword dies against this redlined spear. Send a horse in and he finished the job (but is yellowlined).

IBT - zilch

Turn 5 - All quiet on the google front.

IBT - the AOL marching ants continue in a steady stream.

Turn 6 - nothing interesting.

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 7 - Nothing interesting

IBT - 2 Yahoo galleys show up

Turn 8 - bombard said galleys

IBT - and they leave. AOL founds CNN in the jungle between Redmond and our core.

Turn 9 - Bombard Yahoo galley. Real quiet turn.

IBT - zzz

Turn 10 - Googleplex: Market --> Sword (income up to 49gpt).

Ok I'm going to pause here (I jsut find it hard to play 20 turns straight TBH), so we can have a bit of discussion.

Obviously I can't see what the diplomatic status is or nething like that so If someone could give me a full run down of the current status it would be great. Same if I could just find out where we stand in Mfg. Goods (placing), I like to use that as a guide to how we compare with other nations.

Also do we want to revolt to Republic now? I was goign to wait until we had more than 1 market but watd you guys think? Also do we want to change our research? Noone has Chivalry but several civs have engineering and theology. Do we want to risk an actual run on Chivalry and hope to trade? If we want to change research can someone change the research and repost the save? Thanks guys.

The save

Had a quick look at save - we need morew workers for all that jungle - 10 workers and 14 cities

I note we have a few potential buyers of our wonderful WM

Interestingly peace treaty +327g +4gpt will get Theology from Yahoos

Best research we can currently do is 26 turns for engineering and 29 for chivalry whilst still maintaining pos cash flow (yeah I remember this time :rolleyes: ) I suggest better min research and save gold for purcheases

If we do revolt now we will need to hire a few taxmen to keep positive gpt

Demographics page attached as requested

I'll be away for weekend so please swap or skip if I'm due - will be avail to play Mon pm (I think)

Well done with the trades, tupac. Selling republic to AOL was a good move :goodjob:

I just looked at the save and here's my input (mostly crap, but the major points are toward the end):

Current diplo screen:

http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/6908/googleearthdiplo10ad4ln.png

The two Steves are still at war, and nobody has gotten particularly close with Yahoo yet (only peace, no RoP or anything).

Trade screen:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2049/googleearthtrade10ad3na.png

Well, I take that back. I suspect a lux trade between Linux and Yahoo. Linux has GLHouse so they have sea route to everybody, but AOL is at war with Apple so that route is broken!

Looks like Sun Microsystems doesn't have iron... that would be a very nice trade once the route opens up... (The AI seems very dumb with city placement, Forte is built on top of wheat).

Sun Tzu's due in 14 turns. Yeah, I have some major doubts about that, but if you can turn it into Leo's, great! Just gotta hope there's no cascade...

There's an Apple settler/spear wandering around on our west side. I think AOL will probably wipe them out, with all the units they're sending over there. (They won't pay us for an RoP. Idiots!).

I'm not sure if Redmond is the right place for our scientist. I know I left it there because the city is really corrupt, but do we want any pop growth there? I don't see any compelling reason why though, nor do I know of a better place for the scientist, so you're free to keep it as it is.

I would agree with Andronicus on the point about the workers, 10 workers + 9 slaves seem to be a bit... light... for our size.

I think there ought to be a way we can get Print to above one shield per turn. If I use the roaded jungle tile (don't do this), I can see that it keeps 2 uncorrupted gold out of 7 commerce. It's at 6 corrupted spt right now, so I think if the furs get mined, 7 spt should leave us with 2 uncorrupted.

Marketplace finishes 4 turns earlier in Froogle if you use the forest instead of the unroaded grassland. (Just being nitpicky here.)

Froogle would be a nice place to base our galley. We can load units in there and deposit them on Yahoo's island on the same turn. Mobile and Local conveniently have mountains for them to land on :)

As for building Talk on that tile, there were only a few other choices if we wanted to get the iron within our borders, all of which would involve some ICS-like spacing. I didn't realize Microsoft would go down so easily though :lol:

If we do revolt now, I'd prefer to have it after we sign peace with Yahoo. We should be able to trade silks for incense with them afterwards. Andronicus raises a good point about the discount on theology, as it's quite a big discount (Linux wants 327g + 16gpt). However, I'm not sure if that's necessary. If we are shooting for Leo's Workshop, I'd save gold for engineering/invention. If we can land some units in Yahoo territory, maybe we could get theology for free. (???)

As for keeping research on chivalry, I think that's a good idea. I still think the AI will beat us to it, but if we are researching an optional tech at minimum, at least it won't get in the way of us buying the required ones. If we do eventually get chivalry, I'd say upgrade the horsemen and not the web crawlers, since then we won't be able to build any more of those, and I do want that GA at the right time! (The AI likes to build longbowmen from what I've known, and web crawlers can kill those fairly easily I'd imagine.)

Okay, I think that's all I could come up with for now, best of luck to you!

Thanks for the pictures guys :goodjob: most helpful. I'll keep my eyes open for discounts with yahoo. I'd rather stay at war with them if we don't have to actually fight as that will slow them down.

I'll play the rest of the turns now.

Sounds fair to me. I personally think we're in no real hurry to get out of despotism, since the map doesn't have that many hills and we can live with 2-shield tiles for now.

Republic would be very nice for the commerce bonus though. We definitely have to switch to it before our GA - that's a no-brainer.

EDIT: Seems like I've crossposted with tupac right now. Looking forward to see what he's got!

As Sima suggested move tiles around in Froogle. Sorry I wasn't MM any cities n got caught out :blush:

neway...

IBT - LInux drops a settler pair where I'd roaded too :( what a waste. Yahoo completes Sun Tzu, Penguins start on Copernicus.

Turn 11 - sink a yahoo galley

IBT - Linux founds a city on our land. They also finish Sistines.

Turn 12 - sink another galley.

IBT - Yahoo asks for peace I tell them to shove it. Linux demands we leave, I do. Linux starts Leo's. We have nowhere near the cash we need to get Engineering (511gp+21gpt the cheapest), let alone invention (which would be at monopoly).

Turn 13 - just moving guys around. Load up our galley.

IBT - Linux completes Copernicus. Apple starts Leo's... still can't afford to buy engineering... if only yahoo knew it...

Turn 14 - Our galley leaves. Bombard yahoo galleys. Wonder how I can get us engineering.

IBT - AOL starts Leo's.

Turn 15 - AOL would sell engineering for 560gp + silks. Yahoo will sell it to us for 362gp with peace... :hmm: Check with everyone else and I figure we wont get a better deal so I hand over the dough.

AOL: Peace + 362gp for Peace + Engineering

Check the lux trade possibility, silks for incense is only 'doubtful' we would need to pay 4gpt to get it to happen. As we have no happiness problems right now I decide to withhold the trade (we can trade later)

Go to AOL to see what invention would cost and nearly have a heartattack.

World Map + 281gp +34gpt + silks.

I say no thanks... we probably have time to wait for a few more to know it before buying... if we bought it that would mean no revolt until we had the deficit covered (cant go, potentially, 6 turns without giving the investors any money now could we).

Check the cities and I notice previously happy citizens are now unhappy.. we must have been benefitting from War Happiness, yet we are in despotism :confused:
So to prevent a riot I pay Yahoo the 4gpt + silks for Incense + 4gp
That should also prevent AOL getting cute and demanding silks from us.

IBT - zzz

Turn 16 - not a lot. Invention price hasnt come down at all.

IBT - AOL demands 32gp + TM and obviously I cave.

Turn 17 - Found Picassa. Invention is as expensive as ever.

IBT - zzz

Turn 18 - we get another set of silks. Have a rare stroke of brilliance (ok I just remember it, it wasnt that brilliant). We are selling Linux Furs and Silks (the republic trade). If we hook up a 2nd lot of gems we could put 3 luxs on the table (at no cost to us) and added with some gp that should be enough to buy Invention. 4 turns away, I send a group of workers down to the unconnected gems (will be there in 4, hows that for perfection ;)).

IBT - Apple lands what looks suspiciously like an invasion force on the mountain beside Blogger.

Turn 19 - we get our 2nd lot of iron online, was going to check who we could sell them to and hit F4 causing the game to quit... great form Sam :rolleyes:

IBT - with the game quitting i forgot to make a gpt deal with apple, and just as well. They dont attack us, they wander off toward the AOL city south of Talk. And then I watch AOL pick them off with embarrasing ease. Oh yeah Apple dropped more guys off on the same spot so meh.

Turn 20 - Nothing of any interest. A few builds finish.

NOTES FOR NEXT PLAYER

The furs + silks trade with Linux ends in 2 turns and we can then use those luxs plus gems to buy invention. There are several military units on go to. There are also 3 workers on go to to the unconnected gems.
I didn't MM so feel free to change things around, should be a few golden coins to be found ;)
We have most of our military in either Redmond or Picassa.

Nothing else really for me to say, cant comment on diplomatic status so thats really all I can contribute right now. If I think of anything else I'll let you know :)

Good luck Andronicus (on monday)!

The save

Eh, could you try uploading that again? I'm getting a "Not a valid save file" error, and Mapstat can't open it either.

I'll assume you intended it as an April Fool's Day joke :mischief:

Sima... its a .zip file ;)... did you make sure to unzip it before trying to open the save :p

Sima... its a .zip file ;)... did you make sure to unzip it before trying to open the save :p

:old: Hey now! I might be old and senile, but I'm still sharp enough to notice that!

Nice try tupac...

Just took a very quick glance at the save, and it seems like a lot of swords are being built. Are we preparing for a showdown with AOL? If we're going to revolt soon I'd say concentrate on markets, libs, harbors, and possibly even courthouses (???).

[offtopic] I think we got a new city name:

Google to Organize World's Courtship Information with Google Romance

Service to offer psychographic matchmaking plus free “contextual dating” option

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., April 1, 2006 - Google Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOG) today announced the launch of Google Romance™, a new product that offers users both a psychographic matchmaking service and all-expenses-paid dates for couples who agree to experience contextually relevant advertising throughout the course of their evening.

"Our mission, as you might have heard, is to organize the world's information," said Jonathan Rosenberg, Google's senior vice president, product management. "And let's face it: in what area of life is the world's information more disorganized than romance? We thought we could use our search technology to help you find that special someone, then send you on a date and use contextual ads to help you, ya know - close the deal."

Google Romance users who find one another via Soulmate Search™ may then select the Contextual Dating option, which offers an all-expenses-paid romantic evening in exchange for viewing contextually relevant advertising throughout the course of the users' date (learn more). "Our internal projections say Contextual Dating is going to be unbelievably huge, just a total cash cow," said Google CEO Eric Schmidt in prepared remarks placed into the notes section of an executive PowerPoint presentation and intended solely for internal use but promptly leaked onto the web and then roundly mocked on Digg and Slashdot. The product, a beta release currently residing on Google Labs, can be experimented with at www.google.com/romance/.

:old: Hey now! I might be old and senile, but I'm still sharp enough to notice that!

Nice try tupac...

:D Thought I might be able to catch you out.

I'm back - will play tomorrow

I believe Tupaclives is still experiencing problems with adviser screens in his Mac version, and putting it down to software deficiencies?

I just downloaded your 210 AD save, installed the mod, set up the /Art/Units/ folders, and loaded up the save in version 1.29b2 on my Mac. Here is the F4 screen. I really don't think it's a generic Civ3 software problem.

PS. I've attached the set of minimal unit folders you need to add your special units. These are the ones I used when I loaded up your save. If you include them in your mod thre's no need to manually duplicate and rename existing folders

Question for team
Any thoughts on war with AOL
Currently we are in despot with quite a number of units - though still weak v AOL
A short war with goals of defending at Redmond (leader fishing?), and capturing AOLs 4 towns on our half of the continent. (BTW is gpt deal for tech then demanding they leave our territory or dow - knowing that they are likely to dow - too exploitive for non-evil googlers?)
Risks of war - AOL has many units in our west putting in jeopardy our lux (and iron). Delays further our revolt to republic and GA.
Benefits - clear out AOL from west - if successful. Possible tech for gpt which get out of paying. AOL may well dow us anyway as they have almost eliminated Apple from our west, then they will be looking for a target for their superior military, at least if we control the timing we can hit them first.
edit - if gpt then provoking dow too exploitive / risky we could possibly get a tech from Apple for MA v AOL at discount (then committed to 20 turns of war - I'm not sure we want this)

Quick update
Its 340AD and we are a republic at war with Apple
Had 5 turn anarchy, since then mostly infrastructure builds. We need to consider a site for FP I think
No action in war with Apple. AOL and Apple recently signed peace treaty with Apple kicked off our continent
Oh yeah ... we have Leo's and have put it to use upgrading spears and archers so our territory is a little more secure
No recent trades - initially traded linux 3 lux for invention and ontraded to IBM + some gold for theology
I'm not keen on continuing to supply Linux with lux as they are too advanced

I'll be away from tomorrow till the 18th April so please skip me if I come up.

Eh? There's actually still a safe trade route after war with Apple? I guess Linus must have discovered navigation then...

I think a war with AOL has got to come up soon, our FP will probably make a second core around the southwest, and there's AOL cities taking up space there.

As for GPT deal followed up by the AI declaring war, I don't consider that "being evil" - it is the AI that declared war, after all. Not our fault they're dumb, right?

@AlanH: Thanks for the help!

Eh? There's actually still a safe trade route after war with Apple? I guess Linus must have discovered navigation then...



sneak preview

230AD
Penguins building Magellans

310AD
Penguins building Adam Smith's

Not a particuarly exciting turnset - most of the action was IBT and that mostly builds.

I have hung off trading using min run chivalry to full, but trading opportunity opened up on last turn when Sun finally built a harbour so we can trade silks. This trade has not been done yet.

I have spent come gold shortrushing infrastructure in our core - I have tried to develop primarily our first ring, although have started on a few 2nd ring towns. We are vulnerablke to flips with our poor culture, so libs have been built despite our zero science. I feel they are necessary to both push back our cultural borders and to boost our overall culture relative to our neighbours

The remainder of finances is planned for WC / HM -> knight upgrade in 2 turns which will cost in the vicinity of 800g but give us a force of almost 20 knights. Next player may feel more valuable to spend it on trading ...

Our worker force has been improved to 32 incl 10 slaves. Personally I would go with another 6-8 (3 being built) given the large amount of jungle to be cleared still. Uncovering BGs under the jungle has certainly improved several of our cities - I'm sure there are many more

Military
currently have 11 pikes, 1 spear, 9 swords, 2LBs, 5 archers, 7HM, 9WC (+2 next turn), 6 cats and 1 galley ( I thought I had upgraded spears and archers - must have got distracted part way through :blush: )

Remain at war with Apple and IBM - only 1 fight where IBM sent a sword to Blogger so WW not yet an issue and presumably we are benefitting from WH.
Both will only accept peace for gold payment, I dont think its worth it unless it will improve our trading opportunities.
At some stage we will need to war with AOL - 20 knights might not be a bad time (havnt seen any AOL knights yet, but they have dozens of units in our western area _ currently have an ROP and silk trade to discourage sneak attack - lasts 2 more turns)

Research
Chivalry comes in in 2
If trade for EDU, option of researching PP at max allowed (currently 40% science -> 3gpt surplus making 74 beakers per turn giving PP in about 18. Of course someone may already have researched PP, but if not its our best option for a monopoly tech

Turn log to follow

Turnset

Preturn
Count 35 AOL units visible in our west :eek:
Appear very vulnerable at Blogger (1 archer - no roads), Google (Sw and Sp, but surrounded by lots of units) and at Print (1WC)
Query why building harbour in Print when it will have lots of food after jungle chopped? -> whip lib for cultural expansion and then plan to build workers
Switch a couple of builds to archers for upgrade to 4 attack LBs soon

IT
lots of Apple units killed, Safari razed
Print lib -> worker
Talk worker -> court (I know I'm often guilty of building way too many courts, but this will later be a very powerful city and a court will speed later infrstructure builds - it will take a while, so next player will have opportunity to change if I have failed to convince ;) )

1) 230AD

IT
11 AOL units move adjacent Picasa - hope they have somewhere to go
Googleplex pike -> pike
Froogle market -> lib (for culture expansion - we are under pressure)
Penguins building Magellans

2) 250AD
Gems wont connect this turn as 2 workers roading are slaves :( - have go a turn or 2 without gems
Trade Linux Invention + WM + 42g for furs, silk and gems - hire taxman in Googleplex
Switch Menlon Pk to Leos - due in 2
Trade IBM Theology for Invention, WM + 198g
Trade AOL ROP, WM, 1gpt, 33g for silks (an unbalanced trade, but they may have demanded silks anyway and at least this way they will be less inclined to attack us whilst we remain very vulnerable)
Send archers and spears to rax for upgrading after Leo completes

IT
AOL moves units on to Apple cith Quicktime
Blogger walls -> lib
Yahoo and Big Blues commence Leos - too late suckers

3) 260AD
Whip lib in Orlut

IT
Menlo Pk completes Leo's :band: -> worker
Orkut lib -> worker

4) 270AD
REVOLT - draw 5 turns anarchy
Hire 3 taxmen to keep positive gpt

IT
Apple demand TM + 49g, I refuse and they dow
Quicktime razed by AOL - no Apple cities left on our continent
AOL, Sun and Linux have chivalry

5) 280AD
:coffee:

6) 290AD
:coffee:

7) 300AD
:beer:

8) 310AD
:beer:

IT
We emerge as a republic
Penguins building Adam Smith
Apple -> anarchy

9) 320AD

IT
Googleplex pike -> worker
Menlo Park worker -> market
Scholar pike -> worker
Apple -> Monarchy

10) 330AD
Decide EDU too expensive - 21gpt +548g and no avail ontrades as at war with Macs (wont acknowledge envoy) or no gpt avail

IT
Googleplex worker -> WC for knight upgrade
MV lib -> ducy

11) 340AD
Shortrush market in Menlo Park
IT
IBM signs MA with Apple v us
GMail builds lib -> market
Desktop worker -> worker

12) 350AD

IT
Googleplex WC -> lib
Menlo Pk market -> duct
Web Search duct -> lib

13) 360AD

IT
Frooglr lib -> worker

14) 370AD
shortrush duct in Menlo Pk

IT
Print worker -> worker
Scholar worker -> WC
Video market -> worker
Apple galley pair sail by GMail

15) 380AD
send 4 horses to shadow galleys

IT
Menlo Parkduct -> WC
Froogle worker -> worker

16) 390AD

IT
Pike d IBM sword at Blogger - promotes elite :D
Googleplex lib -> WC
Web Search lib -> WC
Video worker -> duct

17) 400AD
Apple will talk peace but want 160g - have seen no action so decline
Best deal avail for EDU is with Linux (dont want to boost them further, next best is with Sun (? consider after Chivalry researched -> PP)

IT
Menlon Pk WC (sorry just realised had no rax :blush: ) -> lib
Froogle worker -> duct

18) 410AD

IT
Apple and AOL sign peace treaty
Googleplex WC -> WC
Web Search WC -> WC
Linux completes Magellans
Apple's galleys now on east coast going past Googleplex ? heading for Leo's


19) 420AD

IT
Apple galleys reverse direction :confused:
Desktop worker -> worker (too much jungle to start infrastructure on this city yet)
Orkut worker -> worker

20) 430AD
Apple still want 160g for peace
IBM will now talk - they want 120g for peace
EDU costs all gold, WM + 2gpt from Linux
Sun now able to trade lux - will sell EDU for silks, WM and 438g (? give gpt) - I leave this for next player

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/430AD_SQ1.JPG

Another thought
We could train our newly upgraded knights against IBM by taking z/OS, then perhaps AOL

Roster:

Sima Qian
tupaclives (away - skip til 18/4)
Andronicus - just played
Tone - UP
Mirc (??? on deck)

Wow, first time I've seen the AI actually put up a wall of units like that. Usually I just see huge stacks.

I think either Talk or Desktop would be a good FP location, but would require the AOL cities to get wiped out before we can make good use of the surrounding land.

Anyone else think we could settle a few of the open spots that remain?


BTW, I think Tone said he won't be back til the end of this week... if Mirc is paying attention I'd recommend him to pick up a turnset here, otherwise we can wait.

I think either Talk or Desktop would be a good FP location, but would require the AOL cities to get wiped out before we can make good use of the surrounding land.
Warner Bros gets my vote - only a small problem in that it is currently owned by AOL, but its nice and central in the western area - would need a leader though. If hand build then I suggest Talk after court build

Anyone else think we could settle a few of the open spots that remain?
I would be cautious as will be hard to defend against AOL when eventually we war with them. Currently Redmond provides nice walled hill site for them to suicide.

I would be cautious as will be hard to defend against AOL when eventually we war with them. Currently Redmond provides nice walled hill site for them to suicide.

Good point. Maybe the library being built there could be switched to a barracks? It's way too corrupt to produce any useful science for us I think.

I've never tried "leader farming" before, so I'd appreciate any advice about how it works. And I'd definitely wait until we get pikes (or maybe even muskets) before we get AOL suiciding over there.

BTW, if anyone thinks the turnsets are starting to get too long, just let me know. Personally I'm fine with 20 turns all the way up to the industrial age, but since this is deity level and the AI has tons of units, it could get quite time consuming especially when we are at war.

Still waiting for a "got it" from either Tone or Mirc... (I wouldn't mind waiting til the weekend for Tone to get back)

Maybe the library being built there could be switched to a barracks? It's way too corrupt to produce any useful science for us I think.

The lib build is for cultural expansion - particuarly to discourage AOL from building to Remond's SW and then pressurising it culturally

I've never tried "leader farming" before, so I'd appreciate any advice about how it works. And I'd definitely wait until we get pikes (or maybe even muskets) before we get AOL suiciding over there.
Pikes already there :) .
Require at least 2 preferably 3 pikes in Redmond as reinforcements will be hard to reach. Cats to redline units adjacent then knights to knock off red-lined units. Helps to have culural borders expanded and roads on surrounding tiles.

BTW, if anyone thinks the turnsets are starting to get too long, just let me know. Personally I'm fine with 20 turns all the way up to the industrial age, but since this is deity level and the AI has tons of units, it could get quite time consuming especially when we are at war.
I might move to 10 next time - I'm just very slowwww and dislike rushing through the turns.

Sima, I'm sorry, but I have some problems with my Civ3. I don't know when I'll be able to play, so you could get me out of the roster.

Edited Roster:

Sima Qian - ON DECK
tupaclives (away - skip til 18/4)
Andronicus - just played
Tone - UP

Hey guys- you're one turn off. Because Tupac isn't keeping track of what year it is, he accidentally played only 19 turns in his first turnset. So one of you needs to play 21 turns (or eleven if you've decided to start playing ten turns per turnset) to get you back on track. And Tupac should start keeping track of what year it is.

Hey guys- you're one turn off. Because Tupac isn't keeping track of what year it is, he accidentally played only 19 turns in his first turnset. So one of you needs to play 21 turns (or eleven if you've decided to start playing ten turns per turnset) to get you back on track.

Oh... that surely can't be so big of a deal, can it? Sorry about my incompetence, this is the first SG I've ever run, and I'm certainly learning a lot here.

Oh... that surely can't be so big of a deal, can it? Sorry about my incompetence, this is the first SG I've ever run, and I'm certainly learning a lot here.

Not really, but it's at least something worth pointing out (and tupac does need to start keeping track of the years so it won't happen again ;) )

No1 ever died from being a turn off Choxorn, and if the year is 430AD that suggests we are two turns off anyway.

FWIW I suggest no. of turns is fairly immaterial - IMO ending on some arbitrary number is much less important than playing a solid set (and sticking to variant rules :blush: )

Hi guys. I'm back but very tired after a long journey and suffering from sleep deprivation from exploits over the past week.

I can start to play tomorrow once I've caught up with the current state of play (and got the sleep I need). Alternatively skip me and I'll play next time around.

That's fine. Get plenty of rest!

No1 ever died from being a turn off Choxorn, and if the year is 430AD that suggests we are two turns off anyway.

I told you, forget it. It doesn't matter, but there are people on the forum who make big deals about it. And I'm fairly sure it's just one.

It should be at an interval of 50 (ie. 450AD, 500AD etc) as that makes the turns divisible by 10 (and 20 is divisible by 10), so it is two off.

It doesn't matter, but there are people on the forum who make big deals about it.

Well I guess I'm lucky that none of those people are on this team :)
ta for pointing it out though.

Also remember that this is vanilla and there is no victory status screen.

It should be at an interval of 50 (ie. 450AD, 500AD etc) as that makes the turns divisible by 10 (and 20 is divisible by 10), so it is two off.

No, I'm fairly sure it's one. Check the Victory Status Screen- it shows what turn it is. And you really should keep track of what year it is, it's something useful. :cool:

I'm away over Easter so please put me on skip until 19/4

No, I'm fairly sure it's one. Check the Victory Status Screen- it shows what turn it is. And you really should keep track of what year it is, it's something useful. :cool:

Woopsie! I forgot that the VSS was only in conquests :blush: Maybe you should try to find a 430 AD conquests SAV file to check it.

I suspect there's some confusion about turn numbering.

The in-game turn numbering starts at turn 0 at 4000 BC. Using that as the base, 250 AD is turn 240 and 1250 AD is turn 340. Between these years the turns are ten years long. So there are 10 x 10-turn sets each ending at x50 AD.

I know some players insist on calling 4000 BC turn 1, but that leaves you with odd turn numbers or odd year numbers at the end of 10-turn sets. It also means that 2050 AD is turn 541.

Not that any of it really matters :rolleyes:

I just found this thread, what a great idea. The most bizarre mod I've seen in my life. Looks like a ton of work went into making it.

I've got some problems running civ at the moment. (A real problem as I don't play other games with any great regularity.) My computer keeps freezing so I need to ask for a skip. I'm seriously considering going for a complete reinstall. Hopefully I can get it sorted very soon and rejoin the game. I'll let you know when I can play again.

Oh. Heh. I guess that means this turn set comes back to me. Doh!

Good luck with that Tone, hope you'll be back when it's your turn again.

Turn 0 (430 AD):
- Where Andronicus left off, we are at war with IBM and Apple (they have MA against us).
- Sun Microsystems will sell Education to us for Silks + WM + 439 gold. If I add a RoP agreement to that, they'll drop it down to 423 gold. But I don't see why we would be in any hurry to get the tech... yet.
- Linux is building Smith's Trading Company. Yikes, I don't want them to become a runaway AI. Need to figure out how to cause a war between Linux and Apple sometime. I don't want to ally with them though, it will cost us 500 gold and a 20 turn commitment.
- I move some units out of Redmond and on the road between Redmond and Orkut, so they can defend either place when necessary.
- Seeing nothing else interesting to do at this point, I hit enter.

IBT:
- Just some units moving around. Apple galleys can't seem to make up their mind about where to land.
- AOL, IBM, Yahoo, and Linux start JS Bach's Cathedral.
- Linux starts building Newton's University. (!!!)

Turn 1 (440 AD):
- Googleplex: Web Crawler -> Web Crawler
- Web Search: Web Crawler -> Web Crawler

IBT:
- AOL keeps moving those units around, I have no clue what they are up to.
- Sun Microsystems starts JS Bach's Cathedral.

Turn 2 (450 AD):
- Menlo Park: Library -> Barracks
- Chivalry researched. We can self-research gunpowder in 12 turns, making 3gpt instead of 80gpt.
- Even though we can build knights, we can also still build our UU the Web Crawler.
- Our lux deal with Linux has ended. Time to do some trades.
- Buy Education from Sun Microsystems for RoP + WM + Silks + 424 gold (yeah, they raised the price on us, bastards).
- Buy Banking from Linux for Gems + Furs + Silks + 3 gold.
- Sell Banking to Sun Microsystems for Gunpowder + 274 gold.
- Buy Astronomy from AOL for Banking + WM + 28 gold.
- We have saltpeter on a mountain in the triangular region between Googleplex, GMail, and Web Search.
- Linux has a monopoly on chemistry. I suspect they will sell it around soon enough, so I'm setting research at minimum on economics. Not like we will ever get Smith's Trading company, but the wealth bonus might still be worthwhile.
- We are now making 85gpt. I switch Googleplex, Menlo Park, and Web Search to banks. They are our top 3 commerce cities.

IBT:
- Apple lands knight + swordsman by undefended Orkut. Ouch.
- Apple starts JS Bach's.

Turn 3 (460 AD):
- Mountain View: Aqueduct -> Bank
- 4 catapults bombard knight, only 1 hp damage inflicted.
- Regular longbowman attacks knight, gets it to yellow, dies.
- Veteran swordsman kills swordsman.
- Veteran swordsman attacks knight, dies, knight promotes to elite.
- Elite archer attacks knight, dies. (Argh!)
- Elite archer finally kills knight.

IBT:
- More galleys moving in, don't know if they have units though.

Turn 4 (470 AD):
- Nothing interesting.

IBT:
- Apple lands 2 swordsmen, 1 horseman by Orkut
- IBM galleys show up by Gmail and Mountain View.

Turn 5 (480 AD):
- Print: Worker -> Courthouse (?)
- 2 catapults manage to do damage this time.
- Elite archer kills swordsman.
- Regular swordsman kills swordsman.
- Elite archer kills horseman.
- Buy two workers from Sun Microsystems for WM + 54 gold.

IBT:
- More IBM galleys moving around, no landings though.

Turn 6 (490 AD):
- Worker stuff.

IBT:
- Apple lands spearman + longbowman by Orkut.
- Linux builds Smith's Trading Company in Helsinki. Ahh, the silly Finns.

Turn 7 (500 AD):
- 2 catapults damage spearman.
- Elite archer kills longbowman.
- Veteran swordsman kills spearman.

IBT:
- IBM galleys continue on their way. They're going towards Menlo Park, it seems.

Turn 8 (510 AD):
- Scholar: Library -> Marketplace

IBT:
- IBM galleys finally unload arhcer + horseman + swordsman between Googleplex and Mountain View.
- Apple lands pikeman + longbowman by Orkut.

Turn 9 (520 AD):
- 3 catapults do damage this time at Orkut.
- Veteran swordsman kills pikeman.
- Elite archer attacks longbowman, dies.
- Elite archer kills longbowman.
- Elite horseman kills swordsman by Googleplex.
- Veteran horseman kills horseman.
- Veteran horseman kills archer.

IBT:
- AOL demands 76 gold, I let them have it.
- IBM lands 2 horsemen by Googleplex.
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9586/googleearth520ad4wf.png
Of all places to land...

Turn 10 (530 AD):
- Orkut: Worker -> Worker
- 2 of our horsemen kill 2 IBM horsemen.

IBT:
- By the look of their workers and cities, Linux is in the Industrial age already.

Turn 11 (540 AD):
- Googleplex: Bank -> Knight
- Renegotiate luxury deal with Yahoo, instead of us paying 4gpt, they will now pay us 1gpt + incense for silks.
- Our income is now at 118gpt.

IBT:
- Apple lands knight + swordsman by Orkut.

Turn 12 (550 AD):
- Catapults bombard as usual
- Elite archer kills swordsman
- Veteran longbowman kills knight

IBT:
- Apple lands swordsman + 2 warriors on hill near Orkut.

Turn 13 (560 AD):
- Menlo Park: Bank -> Barracks
- Web Search: Bank -> Knight
- Talk: Courthouse -> Marketplace
- I'm ignoring the Apple units, they are out of the range of cats, plus on defensive terrain.

IBT:
- Apple swordsman attacks one of ours on a mountain, dies.
- Apple warriors move toward Orkut.
- Apple lands pikeman + longbowman by Orkut.

Turn 14 (570 AD):
- Mountain View: Bank -> Knight
- Froogle: Aqueduct -> Courthouse (this one is debatable)
- Video: Aqueduct -> Bank
- Catapults bombard as usual from Orkut.
- Veteran swordman kills longbowman, promotes to elite.
- Veteran longbowman kills pikeman.
- Elite archer kills warrior.
- Veteran pikeman kills warrior. (Yes, pikemen can go on the offensive!)
- Everyone has chemistry now, and Apple and IBM are willing to make peace at no cost to us. But I'm not interested in that yet.

IBT:
- IBM lands archer + warrior + 2 spearmen by Googleplex. Regular units, strange for a militaristic civ.
- Linux offers MPP at a ridiculous price, I turn them down.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/9747/googleearth570ad6uo.png

Turn 15 (580 AD):
- Elite horseman kills spearman.
- Veteran horseman dies to spearman.
- Veteran horseman kills spearman.
- Veteran horseman kills warrior, promotes to elite.
- Veteran horseman kills archer.
- IBM will pay us 5 gold for peace now. Hmm...

IBT:
- IBM lands longbowman + swordsman + pikeman by Googleplex.

Turn 16 (590 AD):
- Googleplex: Knight -> Settler (going to hit unhappiness soon)
- I've sent 2 swordsmen and a horsman to z/OS to threaten IBM, see if they cave. They don't.
- Lose a veteran swordsman to a regular spearman. (grr)
- Veteran swordsman kills spearman, promotes to elite.
- Veteran horseman kills spearman, and z/OS is ours. It was size 2 (now size 1) and very far from IBM, so I keep it rather than raze. 1 citizen resists.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5094/googleearth590ad11hk.png
- Veteran knight kills pikeman by Googleplex.
- Elite horseman dies to swordsman.
- Veteran horseman kills swordsman, promotes to elite.
- Veteran horseman dies to longbowman.
- Elite horseman kills longbowman.
- Checking around for trades, the cheapest we can get Chemistry is from Linux, at 729 gold.
- Ahh, but IBM is still smarting from their lost city. I get peace with them, with a discount on Chemistry, which I buy for WM + 532 gold.
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5542/googleearth590ad29wi.png
- Now that we have chemistry, natural next step is to look for metallurgy, if we are going toward military tradition. Linux offers the best price at 971 gold. But... we are exporting silks to AOL, that deal can be canceled now. I renegotiate, and buy metallurgy for silks + WM + 768 gold.
- Apple has physics but not metallurgy. I make peace with them, and acquire physics at the price of metallurgy + WM + 38 gold.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8214/googleearth590ad38gu.png
- We are now up by physics and metallurgy against IBM. I sell them for economics + WM + 544 gold, getting all of the money we paid them back (whee!).
- OOPS! We've been getting war happiness all this time, and now I either have to increase the luxury slider or get another lux resource. 10% lux slider costs us 27gpt. Instead of that, I buy wines from Apple for 22gpt.
- Research set to Military Tradition, due in 25 turns at 40% with a 28gpt surplus. I switch some builds to universities to speed this up.

IBT:
- IBM galleys leave our territory.
- Linux builds Newton's University in Mandriva.

Turn 17 (600 AD):
- GMail: University -> Aqueduct
- "We love the CEO" celebration in Froogle.

IBT:
- Nothing interesting.

Turn 18 (610 AD):
- Redmond: Library -> Barracks
- Picasa: Library -> Worker
- Celebration ends in Froogle
- Linux seems to have a monopoly on Theory of Gravity and Military Tradition at this time.
- Buy 2 workers from Linux for WM + 51 gold.

IBT:
- Linux builds JS Bach's Cathedral in Debian.
- Sun Microsystems and Yahoo make it into Industrial Age. Sun is scientific, so they get a free tech (probably nationalism).

Turn 19 (620 AD):
- Video: Library -> University
- Buy a worker from Linux for 26 gold.

IBT:
- Nothing interesting.

Turn 20 (630 AD):
- Orkut: Worker -> Worker
- Buy 3 workers from Linux for WM + 77 gold.

Current situation:
- A bunch of universities will be finishing in the next few turns, hopefully we can get a decent science pump out of all that.
- Military tradition due in 17 turns. Research is at 40%. If I raise to 50%, it would be done in 13 turns but we would be at a 5gpt deficit which is not allowed. I think when we get a few more markets in place, we'll be able to raise the science slider.
- I suggest we build knights and web crawlers while we can so we can upgrade them later on (still have over 1000 gold in treasury).
- I think it was a bad move on my part to continue supporting Linux with luxuries. When the current deal expires, I suggest we do not renew it with them. Sun Microsystems is weak but technologically advanced, and we can benefit from trading with them instead.
- No Golden Age yet!!! I suspect that will happen during our showdown with AOL, which I predict will happen after we get cavalry.

Roster:
tupaclives (UP)
Andronicus (on deck)
Tone (waiting for civ3 to get fixed)
Sima Qian (just played)

Screenshot at 630 AD:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9996/googleearth630ad8cv.th.png (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=googleearth630ad8cv.png)

The Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/GoogleEarth630AD.zip

Well due to my break I seem to be up in all my games so I'll have to work through them gradually.

As I've been away I feel a bit out of sync at the moment so just a few questions.

What are our immediate goals?
What do we want to steal/tradefore/research after mil trad and do we actually want to self research it?
If I reach the industrial age in say, 6 turns do I then stop at 10 or continue to 20?

I agree we need to stop supplying Linux with lux and instead trade with Sun, just we wont get as much bang for our bucks from the smaller civ.

If / when we are at war with AOL we will be vulnerable to the large number of units they have lined up across their northern settlements. In particular z/OS is cut off from reinforcements. In the event of war should we gift it - if so, to whom?

Gifting z/OS to Sun seems like the obvious choice, since they are so far behind the rest of the AI.

I'd say if we go to war with AOL, keep z/OS around for a few turns to distract their units, then gift it when they are ready to attack. In the meantime we can throw our units at the AOL cities over there.

Tone Update:

I think I've sorted out my computer problems. I'll be testing it more thoroughly tonight and then hopefully I will be able to take my place in the game again. If all works out well with the test, I'll reinstall the modified files and take a look at the game. Thanks for your patience-hopefully I'll see you all on Friday!

What are our immediate goals?
What do we want to steal/tradefore/research after mil trad and do we actually want to self research it?
If I reach the industrial age in say, 6 turns do I then stop at 10 or continue to 20?

Hmm, I thought I said something about that in a previous post, but I was probably stoned and didn't actually hit submit.

Goals (not necessarily immediate):
- Get military tradition and cavalry ASAP. See if there's some way to squeeze out an extra 5gpt so that science can be raised to 50% without causing a deficit.
- Find a convenient situation to start a Golden Age.
- Once we have more military built, try to get AOL Time Warner to declare war on us. RoP is canceled so it shouldn't be too hard.

I think I've devoted enough beakers to military tradition that it will be worthwhile to research it ourselves. And it would probably be a waste of the universities I built if we didn't do some self-research. Linux still has a monopoly on that tech and I want to avoid trading with them any more, they are showing signs of being a runaway AI.

Also, I suspect the other civs (IBM and Apple in particular) are probably busy researching the required techs like theory of gravity and magnetism, and if we can get military tradition early we could trade for those.

Lux deals with Linux and Sun are due to expire in 2 turns, what might we be able to get from those? Sun is #2 in the tech race now, I think we might be able to get something nice from them.

As for whether you want to play 10 or 20 turns into the Industrial Age, it's your call on that. Whatever you're comfortable with is fine by me.

I'll be away again this weekend from Fri morning so if my turn comes please swap or skip. I should be back on deck Mon 24th (Tues a public holiday here - :p )

FWIW I agree with above comments, just be aware of multitude of AOL units in our vicinity - most are prehistoric so cavs should carve em up fast. Having a few more WC on hand ready for upgrading would likely tip the balance.

Pre-Flight (630AD)

Everything looks pretty good. I mm a little for shields and growth but cant find enough extra commerce to either drop the research time or to get enough gpt to bump science 10%, best I can do is -1gpt with no taxmen and dont really wanna hire any.

IBT - AOL units move around... damn they have a lot of guys.

Turn 1 (640AD) - Redmond grows culturally, Menlo Park and Web Search finish uni's.
Worker moves, the two uni's dropped Mil Trad from 17 to 14 turns.

IBT - AOL really does have lots of guys...

Turn 2 (650AD)- Googleplex builds uni. Get our saltpetre connected. Mil Trad has dropped to 8 turns.
Deals with linux and apple have ended. We could get Mil Trad from Linux for 2 luxs but we've decided to pull the plug on trades with them. Can't find any reference to apple so I decide to trade with them.

Apple: Silks + Gems + Furs for Magnetism + 16 gp (we have 1 source of silks left to trade but only linux to trade them to)

IBT - Really, I am serious about those AOL guys... lots!

Turn 3 (660AD)- Mountain view finishes uni, mil trad drops to 5 turns. Everywhere building military units is on web crawlers for a bulkus upgrade. Googleplex is MM for 20spt so it can pop a webcrawler every turn.

IBT - But they are pretty crappy units really...

Turn 4 (670AD) - meh, not much. I'm getting ready for a bulk upgrade. Need cash, just waiting really. Keeping an eye on possible trades. None that great.

IBT - I think a couple muskets and we wont have to worry...

Turn 5 (680AD)- hey this aint too bad. IBM old mate, whats that? You're people are unhappy? Awww, thats a shame you know. Ay? Silks? Well yeh, we do have lots... yep a surplus. Military tradition? Oh I dunno... I'm a music fan too... hey thats good, lets do that.

IBM: Silks for Military Tradition + Music Theory (Bach's gone tho) + 1gp

Research is set to Theory o' Grav. Thats what we want (lucky wasn't something crappy like navigation...) wind back sci to 0% (I know a waste of hte new unis but its only for a little while) and turn all mil cities from cav back to web crawlers (can anyone say 'Leo your a Legend'?). Do the first big upgrade.
14 Web Crawlers - 840gp
1 Horse - 50gp
1 Knight - 10gp

We have 16 cavs and feel much better. Left our elite horses as horses. That is till they pop a leader (touch wood).
11 turns on silks deal with AoL, might be able to tempt war...

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 (690AD) - Just moving troops around, more upgrades (will be upgrading guys every turn till we hit a GA. I actually feel we could win the war in say 5 turns.

IBT - zzz

Turn 7 (700AD) - less than 5 even. Seriously, biggest problem is figuring out how to get into the war without ruining our rep. Eveyone else is Industrial.

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 (710AD)- ok, here's the plan. keep build web crawlers and upgrading them every turn till the silks deal runs out, then declare war kill everything our side of the choke. Take or burn all AOL cities our side of the choke. Hold the actual choke. Sue for techs with peace.

Piece'sa cake Peekay!

IBT - zzz

Turn 9 (720AD) - 7 turns...

IBT - They don't look so tough

Turn 10 (730AD) - 6 turns...

IBT - Penguins start Universal Suffrage...

Turn 11 (740AD) - 5 turns...

IBT - yahoo cancels our incense - silks deal, we have to forfeit our 1gpt in order to renogotiate :lol:

Turn 12 (750AD) - 4 turns... the tension is killing me. We are strong compared to AOL, probably for the first time in the game.

IBT - zzz

Turn 13 (760AD) - 3 turns...

IBT - zzz

Turn 14 (770AD) - 2 turns...

IBT - zzz

Turn 15 (780AD) - 1 turn...

IBT - Sun asks for a MPP, I consider it but decide, as I can't see who they are at war with I don't want to risk it. Might have been nice having them at our back though...

Turn 16 (790AD) - Well this is it. The big one.
We declare war on AOL
Its right now that I realise we don't have an embassy with Yahoo!, funny that. I make one.
I rearrange our defences, we aren't striking this turn. We are letting them waste that huge army on our side of the choke by moving into our territory where our cavalry (6 to a city all the way along the border) will utterly anhilate them.
As suggested I give Z/os to Sun.

IBT - Linux signs a Trade Embargo against us. Our wines deal with Apple is up for renewal, it costs us an extra 1gpt to keep it going. AOL starts to move into our territory... hehehe

Turn 17 (800AD) - start by picking off all the stragglers in our territory. (5-0) cover any exposed cavs with muskets. Despite killing 4 monthly subscribers and a spear at Warner Bros the city still stands. Ok... (10-0)
We kill 3 subscribers, and a spear and born Time (14-0). The territory made ours give us control of roads and we kill another 2 spears (16-0).

IBT - our people want Wall Street, we get a double palace expansion and LOTS (and I really mean lots, I'm counting upwards of 50 guys) of AOL troops move toward us... I really underestimated them... good thing I didn't cancel our web crawler upgrade scheme.

Ok well I'll have to pause here as I have to go play soccer (should win... hopefully), I play sweeper and am captain so I really have to go. I will complete this war upon my return.

Watch out AOL, Google has you in her sights!

Turn 18 (810AD) - start by clearing dudes out. Clear 19 and then after catting a sword I attack with a web crawler and...we have our GA!!
I was sure I took a screenshot but obviously not...

Income jumps to +293gpt, actually set a lot of stuff to infra (banks, uni, n harbors only tho, set Googleplex to Wall Street, I know, odd for the start of a war but we have cavalry to burn). Our Web Crawler upgrading days are over unfortunately, still have like 8 to upgrade and in our GA we can pump cavs in about 4 turns anyway, with our upgrading days over we no longer need the cash so pump science to 50% to have ToE in 5 at +46gpt. Keep clearing dudes...

Finally run out of cavs who can attack (have like 15 cavs at the front though and they've only had to pick off a couple of longbows, I was worried they'd be facing bulk rifles and cavs).
anyway the final numbers at the end of that turn are from this turn (32-1) and for the turnset (48-1). The stacks are still half there but I'm not too worried about them.

IBT - a sword covering a redlined elite cav and like 8 AOL workers dies against a vet monthly subscriber but redlines him. We get another palace expansion (3rd of the turnset)

Turn 19 (820AD) - clear out 16 guys at the front and in our territory, lose a cav capturing CNN (66-2). Let a lot of cavs heal this turn. Will wipe out their stack in my final turn.

IBT - IBM and AOL sign an MPP, now this presents us an interesting opportunity. We can make a huge gpt deal to catch up in tech, being in our GA means we can be sure we can afford the techs, then attack a AOL city and IBM will declare war, we keep the cash, we get the techs, everybody wins! Or is this too exploitative? I'll leave that to the next player after some discussion. Apple lands a decent stack next to the last AOL city our side of the choke. Maybe they are at war? Kill 2 swords on defence but lose 2 exposed cavs (68-4)

Turn 20 - Clear out the last AOL guys but somehow conspire to lose 3 full health vet cavs against spearson grassland... wow... anyway finaly kill count (77-7), a nicely roundable 11:1. I've had the save for ages and so I'll just hand it over now. Please note there are lots of moves still to be made.
I'm pretty tired and annoyed my soccer team lost so I'll do my analysis later.

As we'll be in the Industrial age next turnset I think that the next player should either play 12 (to take us to a nicely rounded 950AD) or 22.

Heres the save.

Nicely done Tupac. I think the only thing that might have gone unnoticed is the scientist in Blogger - since we are doing self-research now, we can let him work a food tile and grow the city a little. (I think it's my fault for not doing that in my previous turnset, when I started the self-research.)

I think it's a good time to consider a Forbidden Palace location. I believe Andronicus mentioned before that he wanted it on the former site of Warner Bros., which would be here:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4322/googleearthfploc9ze.png

I think it's a pretty good choice, and in the long run, 4 irrigated grasslands in the radius + 6 hills + city center translates to 24 food, enough to support a size 12 city.

Since Andronicus is out for the weekend, this would be a good time for Tone to come back in, unless you're not ready yet. Otherwise we'll just wait a couple days, no need to rush.

IBT - IBM and AOL sign an MPP, now this presents us an interesting opportunity. We can make a huge gpt deal to catch up in tech, being in our GA means we can be sure we can afford the techs, then attack a AOL city and IBM will declare war, we keep the cash, we get the techs, everybody wins! Or is this too exploitative? I'll leave that to the next player after some discussion. Apple lands a decent stack next to the last AOL city our side of the choke. Maybe they are at war? Kill 2 swords on defence but lose 2 exposed cavs (68-4)

You're the only one that wins, but Linux, Apple, AOL, Sun, and Yahoo! don't lose. but IBM does- they just give away free techs and take a rep hit, not to mention they will eventually be conquered by the allmighty Googlers! :worship:

Oddly enough, IBM is willing to pay us 13 gold for an MPP. But I don't think that would be a good idea.

As for a huge gpt deal with IBM... well... I'd say it's a bit exploitative, and since it doesn't seem "necessary" to our survival at this point, my vote is that we don't make such a deal. I avoided doing that with Yahoo when they landed a unit on our continent, and they declared war without my ever provoking them. Attacking AOL to trigger a MPP is quite a different story.

Ok no worries, I didn't do it because i wasn't sure what our stance on it was.

You're the only one that wins,

It was a joke.

I guess I have a different sense of humor than many people on these forums, then.

I guess I have a different sense of humor than many people on these forums, then.

You better, since I have none.

You could sign an MPP with IBM before the one they have with AOL is triggered. (It's attacking in the enemy's territory, not defending in your own, that triggers the MPP, as I recall.) Then they have to break their treaty with Microsoft and come over to your side. You get the cash and an ally instead of another enemy, and the AI gets the rep hit. Fun for all.

It does seem kinda exploitive to take the techs from someone who's about to declare war on you so you don't have to pay them. (Unless it's the Germans or Persians and you know they're about to stab you in the back, that is.) However, I've never been against signing over loads of gpt to a civ that's about to get wiped out. Not my fault that the Romans got stuck without iron, is it?

Just some thoughts. Very interesting variant, I must say.

You could sign an MPP with IBM before the one they have with AOL is triggered. (It's attacking in the enemy's territory, not defending in your own, that triggers the MPP, as I recall.) Then they have to break their treaty with Microsoft and come over to your side. You get the cash and an ally instead of another enemy, and the AI gets the rep hit. Fun for all.

Eh, what? Bill Gates has been burning in hell for quite some time now:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7076/googleearthhistogram830ad0kn.png

What we have to be careful of is that stack Apple has just landed by the AOL city. If they attack, MPP will trigger a war between IBM and Apple, and I don't think we want to get involved in that. Especially since we have a GPT deal with Apple.

On another note, I think we are still exporting silks to IBM. If they declare war on us, that shouldn't affect our trading reputation, right?

If they declare war then we dont get a rep hit (of course as the AI doesnt care about each others rep they dont get a rep hit either), I wouldn't recommend us signing any MPP's because they always seem to come back to bite u in the ass.

Sorry, my bad. I meant AOL. Yes, Bill is dead. Didn't catch that mistake be for I hit send.

I tend to avoid MPPs as well, unless I know pretty well what they're going to do. Just figured you could use this on to disrupt your foe's alliances.

Monkey be quiet now. ;)

I know what you mean. MPP's can get you involved in a war that you don't want, and can force you to brake trade deals, even other MPP's! With all of these exploits, the best one seems to be the huge gpt deal for techs one.

Roster ???
Tone - UP
Andronicus - ON DECK
Sima Qian
tupaclives - just played

Actually Andronicus it was your turn, I was just suggesting that Tone might play if you couldn't...

Tone is still on deck, waiting for an update with regard to those technical issues...

:o
"got it" then

then the true roster should be:

Andro: UP
Tone: ON DECK
SQ
Tupac: just played

I've played a couple of standard games on both vanilla and C3C and all seems well now. I didn't want to risk messing up an SG but I've played some games that didn't matter and all seems fine now. I'll install the additional files for this game and rejoin. It's moved on a bit so I've got some serious reading to do!

I'll follow Andronicus if that's OK.

I'll follow Andronicus if that's OK.

That's how it's always been so far. Very glad to have you back.

Andronicus, I'm expecting some serious ANZAC action, Tupac set up a great war for you to fight!

(refering to SQ's new postcount title): An insane variant designer you are! :crazyeye: But will you keep playing your record, "Vegeterian Vengeance", Oh great historian?

Since this has laid dormant a week - a quick update
I've downloaded the save but not played yet - should be able to post my turns by Friday morning (not sure whether that be 10 or 20 though). Sorry for delay - up in 2 SGs when got home Monday and got called into work yesterday :( .

This has taken longer than expected, but progress is being made
AOL is down to 6 cities and 3 tundra towns in 930AD, we have a bit of WW but I think we can handle a bit more war
After many fruitless elite victories I have just popped 2 leaders - the first I used to rush the FP, I'm unsure what to do with the second.
I have traded aggresively to get steam, industrialisation, electricity and replacable parts, but I was unable to recoup my gpt outlay as those civs lacking techs had no money left (rest assured I have maintained positive cash flow this time). Consequently I have been unable to research and am saving money for medicine and hoppefully scientific method (corporation is known only by linux, no-one yet building ToE) I have a city which could build ToE in about 4 or 5 turns if Sci Method turns up in time and I can afford a trade The question is should I use the leader to rush Suffrage to break the wonder cascade and try and outbuild the AI when ToE available, or should I use him to form an army? I think I can outbuild the AI as GooglePlex can do 60spt - currently has 1 turn left top build wall st, or can use Suffrage as prebuild for ToE if dont leader rush it elsewhere

Its late here so I will return in the morning to finish up.

I suggest using it for suffrage to break the wonder cascade, and work on ToE in GooglePlex as soon as you get Sci Method. At 60 spt, you'll finish it in 10 turns (unless it's not 600 shields in 1.07f and that leaked to this variant)!

Pre turn
Lots of cavs ready to blat AOL
Badly behind in techs, may have missed chance at ToE / Hoover
Need FP - will use leader if get one
I want steam and Industrialisation ASAP to get a chance on prebuilding ToE

I avoid my prefered SP strategy (pay 100s gpt for IBMs techs then await their dow on me after I attack AOL next). Agree it is an exploit, but if the AI wants the benefits of MPP it should have to deal with the negatives

So I go a much more complicated and expensive way to the techs I want
Get more gpt avail by selling units not worth upgrading (archers and swords)
Trade Yahoo 33gpt for ToG + 10g - get free nationalism
Trade IBM 87gpt for Steam +1g (Note below I did not leave us owing IBM)
Trade Sun silks, WM, 78gpt, 2g + coal (after building colony on 2nd source - coal saves us 26gpt) and link to renegotiate peace (saving additional 11gpt) for electricity
Trade IBM Electricity for 90gpt + 37g
Trade Yahoo Electricity + 9gpt for Industrial, PP + 5g
Trade Linux WM, WM, 239gpt + 57g for Replacable Parts
Trade Sun Replacable Parts for 69gpt, 3g + WM
Trade Yahoos Replacable Parts for 34gpt + 32g

Switch to a lot of factories, scholar gets a duct and Froogle goes to uni (cultural pressure from Yahoos), Blogger loses its scientist
Send most cavs south
Science on hold to save gold
Attack AOL and IBM dow due to MPP
Clean out units around Redmond (7-1)

IT
Apple dow AOL
Apple building Suffrage
IBM dow Apple
Apple capture Road Runner

840AD
Spend all money upgrading
No new techs
Clean out around Redmond (11-1)

IT
Video bank -> factory
Yahoos building Shake's


850AD
Apple, Linux and Yahoo have Medicine, not Sun, but no trade avail
Railing and preparing forces

IT
Froogle Uni -> cav
Yahoos building Shake's

860AD
Ping units around Turner - move ready to attack next turn (17-1)
Apple will trade Medicine for furs, silk and all our gold, but no-one to on-sell to -> dont do

IT
lose an e-arch I left out unprotected :smoke: (17-2)
Googlplex factory -> Wall St (? prebuild for ToE - 54spt so 11 turns - grows next turn)
Apple building Shake's

870AD
@ Turner Broadcasting, lose 1 cav taking out 2 rifles -> capture (19-3)
clear out loose units (24-5) includes 4 elite wins, no leader

IT
lose infantry at Turner, but take out a cav (25-6)
Print market -> arty
IBM building Shake's

880AD
WW hits -> up lux to 10%
South of Turner clear 5 units with 5 elite victories - still no leader (30-6)

IT
AOL attack our stack threatening Netscape - 3 victories inc e-pike on defence (33-6)
Redmond settler -> worker
Web Search factory -> cav (2 turners)

890AD
@ Netscape (on hill) - arty knock rifles to 1 and 2 hp, first cav wins, 2nd loses, 3rd loses and promotes rifle, 4th wins and capture city (32-8)
mopping up (33-8)

IT
IBM frigate fails pillage attempt, galley and frigate going round western end of continent
AOL cavs attack our cav stack on hill threatening Instant Messanger we go 2-1 (35-9)
Menlo Park factory -> infantry
Orkut worker -> worker
Picasa settler -> market
Sun building Shake's

900AD
@ Instant Messanger - cav l rifle->3/4, cav d rifle, cav l rifle - no damage, cav l promoting rifle 2/5, cav d 3/4rifle, cav d 2/5rifle, cav d cav -> raze it (37-10)
Settle Pack just north where wont have cultural pressure -> lib
Settle Page Creator - new FP city (still awaiting that leader)

IT
IBM pillage sucessfully
Web Search cav -> cav

910AD
knock off a few cavs with elites (39-10) - still no leader
IBM will accept peace for 20g - hold off for now as they are giving us WH
WW worsens -> 20% lux
AOL have infantry

IT
@ Pack cav defends successfully v 2 cavs with arty help (41-10)
Lose 4 workers railing access to AOL's land
cav (on mountain threatening Nullsoft) d cav (42-10)
CNN resistance ends worker -> worker
Mountain View factory -> harbour
GMail factory -> bank
Scholar duct -> bank

920AD
@ Nullsoft cav redlines rifle, e-cav d musket and we get MGL Forbidden Palace :band: , cav d 1/4 rifle and capture (should have razed but wasnt thinking in my excitement) (44-11)
@ Welcome Screen cav l rifle -> 3/4, cav l 3/4rifle -> 3/5, cav d 3/5 rifle, cav d musk, cav d reg musk*2 -> raze the capital (48-13)
Miribalis has inf defending - I think that will be my last attack before peace to stop WW as we will likely have heavy losses
clear away left overs (51-15)

IT
Lose archer and cav (53-15)
Menlo Park arty -> inf
Web Search cav -> inf
Blogger worker -> worker

930AD
Rush FP in Page Creator
@ Miribalis arty reduce size from 10->8, destroy rax and redline only inf. cav d musk, cav redlines musk, cav d 1/4inf, cav d 1/4musk (56-16) -> capture
WW is no worse and cant get anything worthwhile in peace treaty so cont war v AOL - they have 6 cities and 3 tundra towns left

IT
AOL req peace treaty - decline
First pollution hits
Desktop settler -> settler
Page Creator FP -> market
Talk factory -> bank
Yahoos builkding ToE
No action from AOL - guess they're gassed

940AD
Settle Web Accelerator to get to 2 tiles from You've Got Mail
Throw everything at AOL
@ Naviserve rifle and 2 muskets kill first 5 cavs, but succomb to next 3 (58-18) -> raze
@ Explorer Browser lose 2 cavs v 2 rifles and musket, last avail unit 4/5*cav is redlined but takes final rifle (risky move that) -> raze (61-20)
@ You've Got Mail arty ensure no losses v 2 rifles, musket and c-inf -> raze (65-20)
Rail to get to Compuserve
@ Compuserve , 2 arty fail, 3rd destrous harbour, lose 2 cavs defeating 2 pikes and musket (68-22) -> raze
Trade Apple WM, silks, gems, furs, 123g + 20gpt for Medicine
Trade Sun gems + 100gpt for Sci Meth
Peace Treaty with IBM to allow trade (only able to do with ROP)
Trade IBM silk, gems, rubber, Sci Meth, 13gpt for Corporation + ivory
Trade Sun Corporation + WM for 83gpt
Trade Apple Corporation for WM, 150g, 2gpt + espionage
Switch Googleplex to ToE
Hurry Suffrage in Web Accelorator (to get cultural expansion)

IT
Menlo Park arty -> arty
Mountain View harbour -> court
Web Search inf -> court
Froogle inf -> settler
Web Accumulator Suffrage -> settler
Suddenly realise my mistake - had prev been thinking of rushing Suffrage to stop the cascade - now Sci meth ios out it starts the cascade - stupid :wallbash:

950AD
cav d cav mopping up (69-22)
troops healing up - I elect to push on with war as WW not too bad (20% lux req) and could soon eliminate AOL
I'm sorry guys about the wonder cascade - the suspence is killing me so I play the extra turn to see if we get it :blush:

IT
IBM want MPP - I decline
IBM dow - WTF! :confused:
we lose ivory
AOL sends LB which kills our cav (69-23)
Linux complete Shakes ... and thats it!

960AD
ToE due next turn :D
kill that pesky LB (70-23)
@ Mapquest arty destroy temple, decr size 11->8 and remove a few hps, 2 cavs lost overcoming c-inf, rifle, musk, pike and LB (what a mixture) (75-25) -> capture
@ Singing Fish lose 4 cavs before killing rifle / musk pair, had to use 3/5cav on final redlined musk (77-29) -> capture
AOL has only 3 cities left so I am keeping all now

IT
IBM pillage
pollution stikes Googlplex but still sufficient shields to build ToE -> free Atomic and Electronics
set for Radio as likely to be another monopoloy (opportunities to trade for refining)
Googleplex -> Hoover in 13
Menlo Park arty -> arty (useful to chase away pillaging IBM, but could switch to Intelligence Agency)
Web Search court -> Wall St
GMail bank -> inf
Froogle settler -> factory
Desktop setter -> lib
Video factory -> arty (has no rax)
Blogger worker -> court
Turner - resistance ends worker -> worker

OK I'm sorry playing the extra turn, but after stuffing up the rush of Suffrage and ToE being a major goal of my turn, I jusy had toi see it through
I have not done anything this turn, as I now have to go to work I hand it over to Tone with no units moved and no cities MMed

You played two extra turns, Andro. Oh and BTW, now I suggest you use that MGL for a cav Army. After all, I doubt the AI will get Hoover dam and even if they do, it wouldn't kill you. Especially since you can always capture the AI city with Hoover Dam if you want... :mischief:

You played two extra turns, Andro. Oh and BTW, now I suggest you use that MGL for a cav Army. After all, I doubt the AI will get Hoover dam and even if they do, it wouldn't kill you. Especially since you can always capture the AI city with Hoover Dam if you want... :mischief:

Yep I played 2 turns beyond the even no - I just couldnt bear not knowing if we would get Hoover or not after devoting so much trading towards it and forgoing past 14 turns of research.

I used the MGL to rush Suffrage - not that it's any great use - I was intending to break the wonder cascade, instead I risked precipitating it - complete and utter brain fade :blush: .

If AI did get Hoover if it would be no use to us once captured since it would be on a different continent.

If Tone not ready to play at present I could tidy up the last turn and resubmit 970AD save at end of turn tonight, otherwise feel free to go ahead and play

Very nicely done. One thing I might mention is that we have two possible sites for Iron Works on our continent, neither of which are going to be convenient for us. We could build a city 1 south of GMail, but that would require us to abandon GMail and that really wouldn't be worthwhile. The alternative would be to build a city either 1 NE of Road Runner or 3 SW of Picasa, and either would require going to war with Apple or Sun. Also, there aren't enough food tiles around there to support a large population. Anyone mind waiting for coal or iron to reappear somewhere else, and try our luck?

WW has gotten annoying but I think we might be able to get another lux trade with Sun. They will sell us spices for furs + 14gpt.

AOL is willing to hand over their last two cities for peace but I think we're better off destroying them.

Even though we still have quite a way to go, I think it's not too early to start talking about victory conditions. My preference is 1. domination 2. conquest 3. space race, with the others being not very feasible by this point. The reason for that is, well, based on an image I saw of "Google in 20 years":

Sorry. That image is funny, but it gets around the autocensor by displaying words as images, so I've had to remove it

:lol: :lol: that is absolutely hilarious!

The war with AOL is costing us - we are having to spend 20% of our GA commerce on lux, in addition AOL has a trade embargo with Linux against us (not important since we have decided not to feed the beast with extra lux). It appears AOL also has MPP with IBM again (previously there was no MPP showing) - this may explain IBM's sudden dow after I refused an MPP, but as there was no action by us (it being IBT) at the time it seems wierd.
Peace with AOL will not get us anything other than the tundra towns, we would then have sig flip risk and no way to retake for 20 turns. One option would be to just leave crap units in towns with resistors and if they flip wait out the 20 turns before re-dowing and finally wiping them out. The other option ofcourse is remove them ASAP - possibly in 2-3 turns
The forested tundra will limit the speed of any approach. We are getting lowish on cavs as the time of cavalry comes to an end and tanks are in sight I see little benefit from building more soon to be obsolete units, and was prepared to sacrifice many cavs to speed the assault on AOL.
Settling the vacant land will be important if we wish to keep other AI off it
I havnt looked into trading opportunities now we have monoploly techs, we should be able to get a lot of gpt from linux at least (of course when our massive gpt payments to them expire, they may decide to dow us to remove their payments to us) as well as any avail cash.
Science can be turned back on as soon as war is over and lux removed - with FP now we should be in good commerce shape
I have no particular views re victory targets, but with razing AOL cities the chances of diplo are small, so a pre-build for UN for denial purposes should be considered.
I apologise again for the "dog's breakfast" state of current save, if Tone is willing to wait I should be able to post end of turn save this evening (say within 6 hours of now), but would leave trades to be done by next player.

an image I saw of "Google in 20 years":

Sorry. That image is funny, but it gets around the autocensor by displaying words as images, so I've had to remove it

seriously ... those are not my keys :mischief:

I apologise again for the "dog's breakfast" state of current save, if Tone is willing to wait I should be able to post end of turn save this evening (say within 6 hours of now), but would leave trades to be done by next player.I'd appreciate that. I have this and the SGOTM to play at some point over the weekend but there's no way that I will start on either for another 12 hours as I've just got up and I'm now going to go to work.

I will need to look at the game carefully as it's been a long while since my last turn set so any general strategy/guidance would also be appreciated to help me get back into it. BTW no problems about continuing for a couple of turns-we're all flexible here.:)

Nice image, SQ! It's always good to get up with a smile.:lol:

OK I've completed 970AD turn

cities MMed, WW has hit harder so had to increase lux to 30%, somuch for Suffrage benefits. Some tile usage may seem strange but necessitated by neg gpt if optimal tiles used
We need to end this war soon
I have placed attack forces whioch hopefully will be enough for 2 towns next turn, then use any healed cavs to take final AOL town on second turn. Lux should then go back to 0% allowing us to start research on next tech

Note I have not traded our 2 new monopoly techs. I suggest trading atomic, but only Linus offers full price for it. They will pay 7379g straight up (better than getting gpt as they have been furious - have trade embargo v us - and may start demanding techs, currently we owe them - 239gpt for another 6 turns. Yahoo will give us refining but have no money, Sun will give us spices and semi-useless techs (commie, demo & nav), also having no money, Apple have refining, useless techs and 37g, IBM wont acknowledge us.
I would keep electronics a while to ensure we snag Hoover and a monopoly on radio, assuming we research that direction
Another alt is to get sanitation from Linux - they are only civ with it, but I would prefder to get money from them and get sanitation from one of the others once they research or trade it

Lots of worker tasks remain. My primary goal has been railing already developed tiles in our most productive cities, looking to irrigate to speed growth, then mine once growth maximised. I have left most of the jungle till after, giving priority to cities requiring another tile to work.

I am uncertain what to do with corrupt towns in vanilla. Without useful scientists, science farms seem too much effort for the meagre benefits. My approach has been to place new towns to prevent AI from settling and setting to workers (we still can do with more), settlers sped with forest chops (mainly applies to captured AOL towns) or wealth to ensure we maintain pos cash flow - note there are quite a few taxmen in these towns

After bremoving AOL our next move depends on what victory condition we want to head for. We are reasonably set up for space or military, Linux being our no.1 competitor. UN to prevent AI build should be planned.

In my games, any desolately corrupt towns I simply irrigate everything, then make as many taxmen as it can (scientist farms are useless in vanilla but most games I'll usually have about +100gpt worht of taxmen farms) and then no worker or settler will ever come out my core again. They will be supplied by these corrupt towns and I'll use workers and settler produced in the corrupt areas to quickly build up the pop of my core cities (and especially cities around the FP as they are usually in a captured area and are all newly founded cities that I want to get up to scratch quickly).

Other than that I can't really think of any use for corrupt towns in vanilla.

A few things:


If AI did get Hoover if it would be no use to us once captured since it would be on a different continent.


What if you had cities on that continent?

Moderator Action: Sorry. That image is funny, but it gets around the autocensor by displaying words as images, so I've had to remove it

What's so funny about the image?

Note I have not traded our 2 new monopoly techs. I suggest trading atomic, but only Linus offers full price for it. They will pay 7379g straight up (better than getting gpt as they have been furious - have trade embargo v us - and may start demanding techs, currently we owe them - 239gpt for another 6 turns. Yahoo will give us refining but have no money, Sun will give us spices and semi-useless techs (commie, demo & nav), also having no money, Apple have refining, useless techs and 37g, IBM wont acknowledge us.
I would keep electronics a while to ensure we snag Hoover and a monopoly on radio, assuming we research that direction
Another alt is to get sanitation from Linux - they are only civ with it, but I would prefder to get money from them and get sanitation from one of the others once they research or trade it
Give Linux Atomic Theory for 7379g, then use that gold to buy sanitation from Linux and Refining from Apple or Yahoo.

Hmm... interesting scenario. I'd say that we hold on to atomic theory for a bit longer, I'd much rather have the AI demand it than demand electronics. Hoover's is due in 13 turns but will definitely take longer due to the end of our GA.

I'd vote for eliminating AOL asap, since then the tech cost for refining and sanitation would be reduced since that's one less AI that does not know them. On the other hand, that might also slightly reduce the value of our monopoly on atomic theory.

AlanH, glad you got a laugh out of it too. ;)

What if you had cities on that continent?

The corruption would make them useless. The point is that we want the extra production Hoover allows for on our main continent so that it is actually useful. Having hydroplants in even 1000 corrupt cities is totally pointless.



What's so funny about the image?

the image has been changed but it had swearing hence the need to be taken down.

Give Linux Atomic Theory for 7379g, then use that gold to buy sanitation from Linux and Refining from Apple or Yahoo

Why would we buy Refining or Sanitation for cash? The best thing to do would be get Sanitation + gold from Linux and then get refining from Apple or Yahoo + from the pair eventually get all the past techs as well using either Atomic Theory, or Sanitation for trade rather than gold. Lets keep the cash.

Why would we buy Refining or Sanitation for cash? The best thing to do would be get Sanitation + gold from Linux and then get refining from Apple or Yahoo + from the pair eventually get all the past techs as well using either Atomic Theory, or Sanitation for trade rather than gold. Lets keep the cash.

I agree
I vote for getting linux's cash and sanitation now - if they demand electronics tell them to go stick it - war with them will result in 1 more city for us. Currently they could do a bit of pillaging damage to our coast, but until bombers not much else since any landings can easily be dealt with by arty + cavs

On subject of cavs I havnt replaced all those lost ones and we have gone from over 50 to only 14 left (saves us a heap in unit support ;) ).
As no upgrade path for cavs I am reluctant to build more - not too long till tanks, but if at war with another AI we may want a few more cavs. Another option is a stack of maybe 3-5 ironclads to get rid of any naval units our arty redline (again lack of upgrade path makes too many a waste)

@Tupac: The Hydro Dams: Oops. I forgot. Power Plants won't be useful in corrupt towns. And as for my Refining/Sanitation thing:
Hmm. Good point. Give Linux Atomic Theory for Sanitation and however much gold they'll give you. Then, trade Atomic Theory to the rest of the world for whatever they'll give you since Linux will do it anyway.

@Tupac: The Hydro Dams: Oops. I forgot. Power Plants won't be useful in corrupt towns. And as for my Refining/Sanitation thing:
Hmm. Good point. Give Linux Atomic Theory for Sanitation and however much gold they'll give you. Then, trade Atomic Theory to the rest of the world for whatever they'll give you since Linux will do it anyway.
The rest of world has little to give - alt is to wait until they have something to give (and risk their demanding it in meantime). We can already get refining from Yahoo and one other IIRC. If AI wants war, giving them atomic cheaply wont stop them from demanding electronics

How about this: If you can destroy AOL, first give atomic theory to linux for Sanitation and gold, then destoy AOL, as destroying them first would decease the worth AT. Then trade the decreased-value AT to the rest of the world, as they don't have enough to pay for full value, and get refining, more gold, and some gpt.

Is that too exploitative or really confusing? :crazyeye:

How about this: If you can destroy AOL, first give atomic theory to linux for Sanitation and gold, then destoy AOL, as destroying them first would decease the worth AT. Then trade the decreased-value AT to the rest of the world, as they don't have enough to pay for full value, and get refining, more gold, and some gpt.

Is that too exploitative or really confusing? :crazyeye:

It all makes perfect sense
(expressed in dollars and cents ... pounds, shillings and pence)

RW

Only thing is I'm not sure how the math works out. Yes, destroying AOL will decrease the value of AT. But it will also decrease the value of refining and sanitation, because AOL does not have those techs.

Case 1: We trade away AT now, and get less for it because the AI puts a higher price on refining and sanitation

- or -

Case 2: We destroy AOL first, and trade away AT for a lower price but might get discounts on refining and sanitation.

Not sure which one is more favorable to us, but keep in mind that with the possibility of demanding techs, and also how the AI has many, many ways of wasting gold (e.g. rushing culture in really corrupt cities), I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to trade away AT for a huge pile of gold.

But.... only Linux has a huge pile of gold, and they're not going to fork it all over if we want sanitation and refining too. Linux has a monopoly on sanitation. The other civs have no gold. What I want is all the (useful) techs we don't have and as much gold as possible. This is why I want sanitation to get traded around before making the trade, so that we can squeeze more gold out of Linux that way.

On the other hand... if Linux is researching atomic theory, the more beakers they have accumulated, the less they are willing to pay for it.

Tough call, in the end.

How 'bout trading AT to linux for all the gold they will give, and to one other civ ? Yahoo or Apple for refining - we then wait for steel and sanitation before trading to others. (then trade refining to Sun for lux to get immediate extra lux).

Other option is just do Linux trade and save getting refining for when Sun have a tech we want as they can also give us a lux.
If we get demands in the interim we tell em to go stick it (which probably means war since we are weak compared to all except Sun)

@Sima: Why not save on the turn you do it, and see which is more profitable?
@Andro: If you trade it to Linux, they'll trade it to every other civ. It's something that really bugs me about the game; whenever you trade something to an AI, they trade it to everyone else they know. :mad:

@Sima: Why not save on the turn you do it, and see which is more profitable?

Does that involve the R-word?

I believe it does. I don't know about anyone else but I am firmly against re-loading in any situation.

I guess it would kind of be cheating. Just do whatever you think is best. :)

:bump: whose playing?

Roster

Tone - UP
Sima Qian - on deck
tupaclives
Andronicus - just played

I've finally got around to looking at the save. We have massive WW and our GA is almost up. I need to KO AOL which might be tough to do in three turns-I just hope that they haven't got a settler hidden somewhere! I'm assuming that we will have War Fever from IBM or am I wrong here?

Maybe we need to get GPT in the deals rather than straight cash, as we need a positive cashflow and that's going to devastate us when we lose our GA. Linux will give 388gpt and an alliance vs 'The Big Blues' (just to help ensure that they don't backstab us) for AT. We then try to get Refining plus Sanitation from the others (plus alliances?). What do you think? I'll play later this evening.

This can't help you. I think Tone's suggestion was as good as any.

I've finally got around to looking at the save. We have massive WW and our GA is almost up. I need to KO AOL which might be tough to do in three turns-I just hope that they haven't got a settler hidden somewhere! I'm assuming that we will have War Fever from IBM or am I wrong here?
AOL have 3 towns left (all size 5 or smaller), I left save with attack force to hopefully take 2 of those next turn. Provided Triton falls, backup cavs can access their last town RAINMAN the following turn. I remain optimistic that 2 turns will do the job


Maybe we need to get GPT in the deals rather than straight cash, as we need a positive cashflow and that's going to devastate us when we lose our GA. Linux will give 388gpt and an alliance vs 'The Big Blues' (just to help ensure that they don't backstab us) for AT. We then try to get Refining plus Sanitation from the others (plus alliances?). What do you think? I'll play later this evening.
I would be worried at allying Linux against IBM as they are on the same continent and Linux is likely to run over IBM and become an even bigger headache. I worry about gpt deal without alliance as my gut feeling in the game was that Linux and Yahoo in particular would look to any excuse to dow us. I would prefer getting hard cash from Linux as they have plenty. If worse comes to worse at end of GA and we need more gpt to cont our pos cash flow we can always purchase some from Linux then.
Without the save I cant recall all the gpt deals, but I made a lot of big ones on my first preturn which should expire on your first turn, so hopefully that will help the pos cashflow, but may also be catalyst for AI action:ar15:

OK I'll wait to see what happens in the attack before doing any deals. I haven't got access to the save right now but I don't think that the big gpt deals run out for a while yet.

I presume that the ships off our coast are ready to drop off troops against us. Are the wounded cavs ones that will be ready next turn or did they move in your final turn? i.e. have we got troops to repel a landing party?

OK I'll wait to see what happens in the attack before doing any deals. I haven't got access to the save right now but I don't think that the big gpt deals run out for a while yet.

I presume that the ships off our coast are ready to drop off troops against us. Are the wounded cavs ones that will be ready next turn or did they move in your final turn? i.e. have we got troops to repel a landing party?

IBM has not been landing any troops - there are 2 frigates, a caravel and galley to our north (sailed right around from the west).
We have 2 full health cavs which have just been upgraded and 4 healing cavs in in Redmond which is where I have been sending injured units to heal.
There are also 2 arty (one in Redmond and one on east coast) as well as about half a doz infantry. All cavs that could move I have moved to the AOL frontline - if I had a couple more I would have done so.
With rails I have not considered sea invasion to be a big threat although I do confess we have got rather low in unit numbers

Apologies, Andronicus. You were right on the gpt deals. No worries on the troop landings either. You left me with more than enough to counter any landings.

I've not played too many turns but here's what I've done. Perhaps it's time for some discussion and someone else to take us forward.

970AD
Press enter

IT
Linux demands AT. I say no and they declare war on us! What a start!!!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/970-another_war.JPG
We lose one cav to an AOL attack ouside Weblogs, after defeating the first cav attack.(1-1)
Settler from Mirabilis.
Mountain view: court>inf

980AD
I reduce lux by 10% due to war fever from new DoW on us.
Move cav in to see what damage the bombard will do and see that AOL's capital is defended by an infantryman. Arty destroys a few improvements but knocks one hp from the vet defender. All I know is that there are no more vet infantry there. 4 cavs to attack? I don't like the odds. I attack Weblogs with cavs. Musket doesn't put up a fight, the Monthly Sub doesn't either and the last cav overcomes the longbow and the town is ours. (4-1)
I also clear a barb camp.

IT
We lose an elite sword to Linux (4-2)
Talk: bank>inf

990AD
Bombarding AOL capital does nothing but we need to end the war with them so I send the cavs in anyway. Vet loses after knocking 2hp from vet inf. 2nd vet loses, promoting the inf to (3/5) (4-4!). Then lose 8cav, reducing the inf to 2/5. Elite cav then kills it. (5-5). Next elite kills the musket that steps up and Triton is ours.

Send elite cav vs Linux cav (7-5). Bombard Fedora Core, reducing it to a town. 5 cavs approach final AOL town.

IT
Sun signs alliance with Linux against us. Bombardment cuts some gems.
Deal with apple for wines gets more expensive upon renewal.
Lose another cav to AOL (7-6) and they drop off a cav outside our capital city.
GMail: inf>inf
Desktop: Lib>Uni
Scholar: Bank>Uni
Video: arty>arty

1000AD
Attack on AOL: Lose vet cav to defending rifle, elite kills musket, next elite kills their cav and we get a GL.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1000_GL.JPG
Next cav kills off the rifle and AOL are no more.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1000_AOL_KO'd.JPG
I set research going again now that we can cope with a lux slider on 0%.

I switch Web Search from Wall St to Int Agency, Googleplex from Hoover to Wall St and then use our GL to rush Hoover in another town next turn when he can get back to the core.

Apple are now furious with us but will accept an alliance vs the Big Blues and give us a small amount of gold for our troubles. They are happy with us once again-we don't want to get dogpiled.


IT
Loads of bombardment from ships on our coast
Menlo Park: arty>ironclad
Print: Bank>Hoover Dam (and rush with GL)
Picasa: Market>'duct

1010AD
Bombard Linux town and KO harbour (plus lots of other improvements) to cut their supply lines. Kill a Linux intruder (11-7).

IT
More coastal bombardment, Linux sends some troops by our capital and Aplle signs a PT with IBM.
Hoover Dam in Print(->Uni)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1020_Hoover.JPG
Sabotage in Googleplex
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1020-production_sabotaged.JPG

1020AD
Reduce research by 10% due to going into negative gpt at end of GA.
Kill the three intruders (14-7)

IT
Apple and Linux sign an MPP :(
Mountain View: Inf>inf
GMail: inf>inf
Video: arty>arty
Talk: inf>Uni

1030
Scouting in the fog discovers a linux settler plus 3 escorts. Kill off intruding Linux cav followed by the escorts (although I lost an elite sword vs a 1hp cav :() and capture a couple of slaves. Also get a couple more from a Sun settler after killing the rifle escort. (19-8)

I rush a couple of settlers to try and take the unclaimed land asap.

IT
Big Blues land a stack of 5 obsolete troops.
Redmond & Mirabilis: settler>settler
Menlo: ironclad>ironclad

1040AD
More scouting reveals another victim plus two more slaves. Add on the 5 IBM victims and that makes it (25-8).

IT
WebSearch: IAgency>Inf
GMail:Inf>inf
Orkut: setller>settler
Scholar: Uni>harbour
(Propaganda in Video almost causes a riot!)

1050
Linux intruder killed (26-8)

Linux will talk about peace. They have been very keen on using espionage and have both AT and Electronics! They will give peace for 100g. We cannot attack them without risking a dogpile due to their MPP with Apple. Perhaps we should plant a spy before taking peace.

I'm not sure where the team would like to go now. I'll stop after less than 10 turns to seek opinions. Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ01-end_of_turn,_1050AD.SAV)

Thanks for your patience.

Oooh, what fun. We're at war with that whole continent over there now. At least Linux didn't declare war on IBM and Sun and completely overrun them.

It looks like we're rather low on military but not enough to make it necessary to mobilize. We can probably continue to crank out infantry in our core to fight off any landings.

But... something worth noting is that all the AI's are in democracy. I wonder if we can MPP with Apple and Yahoo, get everyone in war, and watch them all drop into communism and kill their research. I'm not sure how bad WW can get for us, since we've been at war with IBM for quite a while now.

We can still keep positive cash flow with an extra 10% on either research or lux. An extra 20% will put us at -10gpt, but Yahoo will give us MPP + Refining + 102g + 22gpt for AT, and Apple will give us MPP + Sanitation + 126g + 62gpt for AT. Of course, can't expect to get both deals, since AT will become devalued as soon as we sell it to either one of them.

War with Sun presents an interesting opportunity for us - we can send a combat settler onto the hill NE of OpenLook and build a potential iron works site, although we won't get the iron without a war with Apple. But at least we can secure the location.

Iagency? cool! Now you can plant spies and see what the AI are doing. :mischief: As for trades, you can't get both deals, but you can get one deal and a de-valued deal. Either one will work. As for the Iron Works- why not? If you make peace with Linux first, then build th city causing Apple to Declare War, Linux's MPP will force them to break the Treaty and Declare War, causing a rep hit. Just a thought. :mischief: :mischief:

Honestly I don't think the AI ever cares about its rep, nor do they care much about the other AI's rep...

Plus, Apple won't declare war if we build the city. We are already at war with Sun, and the city will be built inside Sun's borders, not Apple's.

What would be nice is if we MPP with Apple, get the other AI to declare war on Apple, and have them take over Road Runner from Apple. Then we can get it out of our way without any rep hit and control an iron works site.

Oh. Then forget it. But what about not getting the Iron without a war with apple?

I am very wary about MPPs esp with all the warring going on.
I think you can bet on our losing our rep if we MPP.
It might not matter to AI if their rep is forfeited, but it does hurt us if ours is.

Linux demands AT. I say no and they declare war on us! What a start!!!

Wow, looks like I threw you right into it


Sun signs alliance with Linux against us
This is good if we can get their cities on our continent and then get tech for peace



I switch Web Search from Wall St to Int Agency, Googleplex from Hoover to Wall St and then use our GL to rush Hoover in another town next turn when he can get back to the core.
Great use of leader

Apple are now furious with us but will accept an alliance vs the Big Blues and give us a small amount of gold for our troubles. They are happy with us once again-we don't want to get dogpiled.
I was reluctant to do this as didnt want to commit to longer than necessary war with IBM, but surprisinly IBM have done little damage and the war happiness is not too bad.


Aplle signs a PT with IBM.
Well that didnt last long



Apple and Linux sign an MPP :(
Am I correct in asuming this is only activated if we attack on Linux territory - if so it has no effect on us unless Linux settles on our continent



I rush a couple of settlers to try and take the unclaimed land asap.
I was trying to do this with ex-AOL towns using forest chops




(Propaganda in Video almost causes a riot!)
I've never experienced AI using propaganda before :crazyeye:


Linux will talk about peace. They have been very keen on using espionage and have both AT and Electronics! They will give peace for 100g. We cannot attack them without risking a dogpile due to their MPP with Apple Perhaps we should plant a spy before taking peace..
:scan: spy yes, peace optional

I'm not sure where the team would like to go now.
Any chance of using current situation to get control of entire continent (means brief war with Apple to take over their town)

I'm sorry that I finished with virtually no comments at the end. I was really tired last night. That's the trouble with getting old; you can't keep up the pace! Here's my thoughts for what they are worth.

Apple and Linux sign an MPPAm I correct in asuming this is only activated if we attack on Linux territory - if so it has no effect on us unless Linux settles on our continent.They have already. It's in the far West and it's been there for ages (Fedora Core). It's defended by three infantry (on a hill) and I managed to KO a lot of its improvements before the MPP was signed but now we cannot touch it unless we want a fourth enemy. Currently there are two ironclads operating from that area. I have also managed to intercept a couple of settlers before they had a chance to create towns. We now have full sight of our coasts apart from one tile in the South, close to Mapquest. It'll be worth chexking that tile out every turn with a cav just in case.

MPPs: I use them with extreme care but we shall be safe in this situation if we get them with both of our trading partners (Apple and Yahoo). We are having our shores bombarded every turn and there are healthy ships from all threee nations that will do so during the interturn. I would sell AT to one civ for Refining plus whatever cash we can get and then to the other for Sanitation if we can get it but if not, cash will be fine. We should not then take any PT for 20 turns and then make sure that we cancel the MPPs before we take peace. Normally the AI will have taken PTs part way through the deal and then have had to redeclare. SQ is right-we'll have the whole world in the communism bog. Don't worry about WW. We have plenty of war fever at the moment (the WW was from our conflict with AOL) so as long as we don't get attacked or start losing too many troops, we'll be just fine. In our current situation the most inportant units we have is our arty. Any landings have been redlined and dispatched without any problem so far. NB I wouldn't plant spies with our friends until they are at war with our three enemies though. We are not particularly well-liked and a failed attempt could lead directly to a DoW!

Any chance of using current situation to get control of entire continent (means brief war with Apple to take over their town)I think we could without the Apple war if we follow the above. As SQ says, maybe Linux will do us a favour and take this town first? Just note that all foreign towns that we are at war with are on hills and so will be tough to take without plenty of arty.

Interesting idea about the IW site but it'll never be a massive powerhouse due to lack of food. A nice bonus though and worth pursuing but can we wait until Apple's town falls to the enemy first?

Finally from me, Linux's cash is gradually falling. They had more than 8000 at the start of my set and this has fallen to around 1700 due to their various espionage activities. I would imagine that their cash flow will drop even more if we get Apple and Yahoo fighting them and will present further gpt opportunities for us, perhaps. Just be careful of any deals with strategic resources that are by the coast. Bombardment is annoying but we don't want to lose our rep yet.

@ Tone
nice analysis, you've convinced me that MPP with both Apple and Yahoo is way to go
btw, what about IBM? Is there much to gain from continuing war with them? If we get those MPPs then presumably we will have IBM also at war with Apple and Yahoo

I think MPP's are a lot harder to break than alliances so we can probably get some reliable gpt from each civ we MPP with. The only way MPP is broken is if:

1. We declare war on either Apple or Yahoo.
2. One of them declares war on us.
- or, possibly the worst case scenario -
3. One of them declares war on the other, and triggers one of our MPP's.

We don't need to export any resources to them in order to get an MPP, nor do we import any from them, and so I don't think the AI will escape from any gpt they owe us.

We seem to be agreed. Your turn anyway, SQ, so you call the shots.

Oh heh. Got it, then.

1050 AD (Turn 0)

MPP and RoP with Apple, they will give us Refining + 126g + 33gpt for Atomic Theory.
MPP and RoP with Yahoo, they will give us Sanitation + 89g for Atomic Theory. Wow, it got devalued by a lot.
We have 3 sources of oil and a fourth one roaded but outside our borders. I think we have another bug from v1.07 here, since oil is appearing on plains as well as desert and tundra.
I can only see one source of oil for Linux, on their tundra island north of us.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/f99251f54142407387dc80f8171b5d28.PNG

I wonder when we can pillage this?

IBM, Apple, and Yahoo have oil connected, but Sun does not.
I raise science to 60%, Radio now due in 12 turns.
I don't see anything to change with the builds, so I hit enter.

IBT:

Linux Penguincraft bombard us, disconnecting one silk and killing a citizen in Nullsoft. (He was resisting anyway).
And thus it triggers this:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/f4bc8121be3c461aa402677bab6e4102.png

IBM ironclad bombards Writely, causes this to happen:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/bf385935cff44a609fe76a3f0172f8dc.png

Lots of naval battles here, none of them involving us.

And then Sun Microsystems makes the same mistake:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/c6e0f02995b74673a65ee8b42f13064a.png

1060 AD (Turn 1)

Wall Street completes:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/b5f71ec723d740bebe04644a3c03c79c.PNG

Googleplex: Wall Street -> Infantry
Singingfish: Settler -> Settler
Video: Artillery -> Artillery
Page Creator: Marketplace -> Library
Talk: University -> Infantry

With the extra gold from Wall Street, I boost science to 70%, Radio due in 9 turns.

Sink an unescorted IBM caravel with ironclad (1-0).
Bombarded a bunch of ships, hopefully Yahoo can wipe them out later.
Founded Calendar on tundra in former AOL territory, I intend to make it yet another specialist farm.
We're at 1154 gold so I try to plant a spy in Linux for 144 gold - and fail.
Apple and Yahoo have Steel but I'm not about to trade Electronics to them - they can't trade with Linux, so it's still as if we have a monopoly on it.

Diplomatic situation:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/c3a8e454cc644675bf375f6aa0705bb2.PNG

IBT:

Naval stuff, we are not involved.

1070 AD (Turn 2)

Menlo Park: Ironclad -> Harbor?? (would be nice to make vet ships)
Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
GMail: Infantry -> Ironclad
Desktop: University -> Factory
Turner Broadcasting: Worker -> Worker

Vet infantry kills a Linux longbowman that entered our borders from Fedora Core (2-0).
After some heavy bombardment, 3 elite cavalry kill the defenders of Fedora Core (5-0), and the city is ours.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/40502bc5342649ad91c5f29fbc37c9ce.PNG

Sink a redlined Penguincraft with an ironclad (6-0).
Sink an unprotected Linux galleon with an ironclad (7-0).
Sun is willing to talk now, but not IBM. None of them have steel yet.

IBT:

Lose an ironclad to a Penguincraft (7-1), watch some more bombardment.

1080 AD (Turn 3)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Mountain View: Infantry -> Ironclad
Elite cavalry kills a redlined rifleman in z/OS (8-1), and we get that city back, just before Apple can take it.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/7026cb0bf72c4b6b8e9379bb7349fc3e.PNG

Fire a ton of artillery at boats as usual...
IBM still won't talk.

IBT:

Apple sends a cavalry toward Openlook, don't know what happens after that.

1090 AD (Turn 4)

Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
GMail: Ironclad -> Ironclad
Froogle: Factory -> Harbor
Video: Artillery -> Artillery
Talk: Infantry -> Infantry
Apple seems to want to take OpenLook, I think I need to get a settler out there ASAP if we want the iron works city. Hurry production in MapQuest for 68g.
Linux has Radio. Our research on radio now due in 4 turns.

1100 AD (Turn 5)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Menlo Park: Harbor -> Ironclad
MapQuest: Settler -> Settler
Scholar: Harbor -> Factory
Picasa: Aqueduct -> Factory

Apple will no longer trade Steel for Electronics.
Sell Electronics + WM to Yahoo for Steel + 34g.
Sell Electronics + WM to Apple for WM + 104g + 70gpt.
1179g in treasury, so I try to plant a spy in Linux, and fail again.
Switch Video to Galleon, maybe we could land a few units on Linux's oil island.

IBT:

Apple attacks OpenLook with a cavalry, and gets beat by a spearman :lol:

1110 AD (Turn 6)

Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
GMail: Ironclad -> Ironclad
Print: University -> Factory
Video: Galleon -> Galleon
Page Creator: Library -> University
Fedora Core: Worker -> Library

Sink a Penguincraft with ironclad near Menlo Park (9-1).
Repeat with ironclad near Video (10-1).
Founded Summer of Code, potential iron works site, inside of Sun's borders.
Proceed to capture OpenLook, which was defended by a 2/4 spearman that survived a previous cavalry attack (11-1).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/2ba2afb32d624f8caf519eaa039aa2ae.PNG

IBM is willing to talk now.

IBT:

Naval warfare between Linux and Yahoo.

1120 AD (Turn 7)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Menlo Park: Ironclad -> Hospital
Mountain View: Ironclad -> Ironclad
Froogle: Harbor -> Ironclad
Talk: Infantry -> Infantry
Sink a Penguincraft with ironclad near Video (12-1).
What the heck, there's not even anything I can bombard. All the enemy ships have gone away.

IBT:

Defend against a Linux ironclad, and win (13-1).

1130 AD (Turn 8)

Radio researched. Combustion next, science raised to 80%, due in 9 turns, with 11gpt surplus.
Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
Gmail: Ironclad -> Infantry
Video: Galleon -> Galleon
Mountain View: Ironclad switched to Galleon
Sink a Linux Penguincraft with ironclad near Video (14-1).
Still lack stuff to bombard...

1140 AD (Turn 9)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Lux deals with Yahoo and Apple expire. I decide to stop giving them lux and sell them tech for gpt and lux instead.
Sell Radio to Apple for WM + 253g + 101gpt.
Sell Radio to Yahoo for WM + incense + 29g + 63gpt.
Apple still has a lot more gpt to spare but I don't want to sell them anything else... yet.
I'm doubtful that they will demand anything from us because Yahoo is polite and Apple is gracious, and we're ahead of them on the power graph now.
Science raised to 100%, combustion due in 7 turns, tresury surplus of 68gpt.
Plant a spy in Helsinki. Linux is in Republic now, and I've just discovered another graphics bug in this mod:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/5da3efb791ee4bab8de9d8ac736cfb7e.PNG

I try to plant a spies in IBM and Sun, and both fail.
Still have nothing to bombard...

1150 AD (Turn 10)

Lots of builds complete this turn:
Pack: Settler -> Library
Menlo Park: Hospital -> Infantry
Mountain View: Galleon -> Galleon
Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
Gmail: Infantry -> Infantry
Froogle: Ironclad -> Infantry
Web Accelerator: Settler -> Settler
Video: Galleon -> Galleon
Talk: Infantry -> Infantry

Current Situation

- Still nothing to bombard, I haven't moved the artillery so the next player (tupaclives) can move them around however you wish.
- Three boats of infantry (12 total) are in Video, preparing for an invasion of the Linux island to our north. If we can't get those cities, at least pillage the oil. You may begin that invasion right now if you wish, as they still have movement left, as do the ironclads around them.
- Lots of workers are in the second core area around Picasa and Page Creator, going to improve them for shields.
- Combustion due in 5 turns now, we are making 58gpt at 100% science. Linux has it now, so it'll be even more important to deny them the oil.
- Some settlers moved around but I'm not sure if they are in the right spots for building cities. Most of these are going to be specialist farms anyway, so placement won't be too important.

Roster Update

tupaclives (UP)
Andronicus
Tone
Sima Qian (just played)

The Save

Got it, I'll play straight away

Apple attacks OpenLook with a cavalry, and gets beat by a spearman :lol:

Sure it wasn't a tank? :spear: :lol: :rotfl: And speaking of tanks, I wonder if IBM has Deep Blues yet. Better hope not.

Pre-Flight

Things look ok. I don't really understand how Sima plans to invade the Linux isle with 12 infantry but no arty... those cities up there will have 3 infantry minimum, we wont be taking them with just infantry.
I really think we shot ourselves in the foot with the FP location, we would have been so much better off waiting and sticking it in the old AOL territory, theres just not enough food where it is now.
I set Z/os to build settler and abandon for next turn. Its at RCP 5 from the FP which doesnt do it any good. 1 tile south would make a world of difference.
We are really short on a lot of things. Arty for one, we have just 15. Only 28 Infantry as well, and we are planning to send 12 of them away.
I rush build 3 factories and upgrade 2 muskets to infantry.
We are desperately short of workers. I honestly don't know how you managed without them I lose my mind if I don't have about 40 excess a tturn workers in the IA :lol: I set a few of those corrupt AOL cities to build workers.

IBT - Apple signs a PT with Linux

Turn 1 - a bunch of builds finish and we are down to +7gpt (i spent a lot of our interest generating money rushing those factories), abandon Z/os and the settler refounds 1 tile SW at RCP 4. Reveals that it was built on a BG.
Plenty of worker moves. bombard a linux ironclad to red.

IBT - the redlined ironclad limps home to heal

Turn 2 - still prepping to get some arty with the infantry units, have 8 so far, want at least 15 preferrably 20. We'll see how it goes. Combustion in 2 at +3gpt. Worker moves... Found New Googleplex, New Menlo Park and New Mountain View

IBT - Linux and Yahoo sign peace. We actually want Linux to bombard us now (though maybe just once ;)) 3 Sun frigates show up.

Turn 3 - trim science 10% to stay at positive cash flow, still get combustion in 1. Found New Web Search. Bombards sun frigates then attack with ironclads. Somehow contrive to lose a full health ironclad to a redlined frigate after avoiding taking bombard damage... the quirks of the RNG ay.
zzz

IBT - A linux Penguincraft shows up, I'm not goign to bombard him, I'm going to hold him responsible for Linux war with Apple and Yahoo... tehehe.
Combustion comes in, research set to Mass Production due in 7.
We also see a very interesting display of espionage.

How pointless can you be!

*edit obviously I didn't take a screenshot, was sure I did. Anyway what it was, Linux got caught trying to steal our world map.

Turn 4 - Upgrade 2 arty carrying galleons to transports and fully load everyone up. That gives us 20 arty + 12 Infantry which will hopefully be enough. Merge a few native workers into FP core cities to help them get up to scratch, the increased commerce drops Mass Production to 6 turns. Could get it in 5 at 100% science but thats at break even, so we arnt returning a profit for the investors.

IBT - that stupid penguincraft brings apple and yahoo into the war against Linux :D and they don't even damage the tile :lol:
Sun asks for peace but they don't have any techs we want. Apple renogotiates our wines deal, hope I didn't do bad but I give them 2 luxs + 5gpt so we save 29gpt allowing us to bump up research again.

Turn 5 - bump science to 100% to get Mass Production in 4 at +29gpt. Our ships sail away, will unload next turn. Worker moves etc. bombard the Penguincraft to redlined

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 - land our ladz on Linux Isle.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7535/picture33pk.jpg

IBT - Yahoo asks for TM - TM swap, I offer our TM and pick up WM + 2gp
We catch a Penguin spy!

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5031/picture51ts.jpg

Turn 7 - our arty redline all 3 infantry in Novell, decide to send a transport back to pick up a settler.
One infantry moves away to pick off a LB, then we win 3 flawless battles with infantry against 2 of the infantry and the 1 cav and lose 2hp killing the other infantry and we raze Novell!

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7821/picture69oa.jpg

Start bombarding the next city on the island.

IBT - Apple and Yahoo both sign peace with IBM, Apple also signs peace with Sun. We lose a full health, fortified vet infantry in a forest (so defending at 15) to a reg cav (attack 6). The RNG has not been kind this turnset.

Turn 8 - cut science 10% to still hav MP in 1. Arty redline the 3 infantry in Xandros. Infantry attack and we again suffer no casualties in taking the city.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/2128/picture81es.jpg

Move guys toward last city. Settler can be dropped off next turn.
Decide to review our enemies and... hey! Did you guys know that Linux has no coal? Not that important but interesting to note.
Also our plan to have the world go Commie hasn't really worked. Everyone is still either Republic or Democracy.

IBT - A linux destroyer sinks an ironclad but is redlined.
Mass Production comes in, set to Motorised Transportation in 5.

Turn 9 - Unload the settler. Move guys so we can start to attack the final linux city on the island next turn. Sink the linux destroyer.
zzz :sleep
Prior to ending the turn I check Linux and they already have MT... do we want to go for flight then? I don't change it as we have MT in 5 and so its not much of an issue.

IBT - Oh my. Linux tank attacks our settler and escort and kills them

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3889/picture97fh.jpg

then turns around and attacks one of our arty escorts (don't lose the stack tho)... oh my. Linux have decided its time to play have they? Hmmm...
Apple and yahoo both redeclare on IBM.

Turn 10 - the loss of those 2 guys seems to have been enough to spark level 1 war weariness. Our whole (developed) empire riots. Luckily raising the lux slider to 10% doesnt slow our research rate.
Start bombarding linspire. One of the shots destroys the harbour so I check Linux and yep, thats their only oil. No more tanks, battleships, planes, mech infantry etc. from them :D. Have a look at everyone else's territory and as far as I can tell Apple, Yahoo and IBM have one source each, Sun and Linux have none, and we have 4 :D.
That means we can control the supply of oil to Linux. Their days as a superpower are over lads!
redline the defenders of Linspire and then raze it for no losses.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4352/picture103qf.jpg

Just worker moves n stuff for the rest of the turn.

The transport at our homeland is awaiting a settler to take to the island to the north. We need to make sure Linux doesn't reclaim that oil. If we have it that gives us control of 5 oil sources which pretty much means we control the endgame.

Overall these were very quiet turns and I was dissapointed with my play, i felt like it lacked focus. The only achievement was knocking out their island and that was dead easy.
Our empire should come stop rioting next turn.

I don't really have many comments as I just wrapped up Sima's start on the island to the north.

Yeh so just, have fun. Don't work too hard.
Good luck Andronicus!

the save

No oil for linux :band:

So now, what's our goal?
World domination or Spaceship?
Should we continue these MPPs which have worked very much in our favour?
Is an invasion of Linux / IBM / Sun continent feasible in the near future (I'm thinking mech inf with bombers)
wont be able to play straight away - its feast time

@Tupac: I wasn't expecting to take over those cities with just 12 infantry, I figured it would be enough to pillage the oil and delay their production of oil-based units for long enough. But you certainly did a fine job of wiping them out anyway.

Also, my intention with the trades was so that we could leech as much gpt as possible from Apple and Yahoo to fund our research, while denying them luxes so that they would have to drop into communism earlier. Of course, I have no idea how that would have worked out with the wines getting renegotiated.

@Andronicus: I think I mentioned earlier that my preferred victory conditions are, in order: domination, conquest, space race.

Yeah, I wasn't real happy about the lux deal either but if we hadn't done it we wouldn't have had enough cash to maintain research at that rate. With the extra 2 turns it was taking at 10% less i suspect we would have probably only just got mass production at the end of my turnset there. Not like thats a tragedy or anything but every little bit helps. Also I don't see how Apple is going to go commie as there is no way they'll acumulate enough WW as they almost certainly won't lose any cities. With Linux no longer able to produce tanks that likelihood drops even more. the same goes for yahoo.
How are we planning for them to get enough WW to have to go commie?

Should we continue these MPPs which have worked very much in our favour?No one else has commented on this. I haven't looked at the save so how's our WW? If it is not so good, we may want to just let them run until we are ready to take peace. Then make sure that we cancel the deals as we take peace.

WW for the AI is a bit messed up and I can't remember all the details. However IIRC, what happens is that when at war with an AI they suffer just the same as us. i.e. if we lose troops, WW gets worse for them as well as us! At the moment, if we are fine, then so are they. If we pull out though, then WW works as it should (no problems in AI-AI WW) and I imagine that they will have been hit quite badly, especially Linux. Can anyone confirm/correct this?

If the above is true we may want to pull out of these wars.

Then again, if our goal is domination/conquest, maybe we should carry on with them for another 20 turns. Renew and continue the conflict with two valuable allies.

I'll look at the save later and then say what I'd go with. I hope that I'll not be too late!

No hurry - I'm half way through another SG turneset at present

Turn 10 - the loss of those 2 guys seems to have been enough to spark level 1 war weariness. Our whole (developed) empire riots.At the risk of being a bit anal, I've just looked at the save and it's not level 1 WW but level 0. We were benefiting from war fever (level -1) before then. BTW if this does happen again, you can catch the rest by zooming in on the first town that riots and then scrolling through the rest to employ clowns where needed before they also riot.

This deterioration in happiness is still enough to make me wary of renewing the MPPs for another 20 turns. I'd suggest that you play it by ear, cacelling the MPPs and taking peace when you feel it's right with two of the three civs, if our allies continue to fight.

Who are we going for next? IBM are the most backwards, so maybe we can get a few tanks and take their source of oil (with ivory as a bonus) by attacking DB2 before they can get those Deep Blue panzers out? I'd suggest raze and replace as the cultural pressure will be pretty high. I really think that we need PTs with the other two though before we do that otherwise we'll have 3 civs attacking our landing site.

In some ways a safer option is to attack one of our current allies but we risk a dogpile happening if they are still at war with the other three so in the current situation I vote for IBM.

I think you guys can conquer the world so go for it! :devil:

I'll have no chance of playing on either Monday or Tuesday so if I do come up in the next 48 hours please skip me.

I had been thinking of IBM as first target too
Hope to look at the save tonight and plan best approach

Had my look at the save and I have a few queries
why are we building libs in many corrupt towns in the south. I presume it is for cultural expansion, but for cities like Analytics and RAINMAN expansion will only give us extra sea tiles not land tiles to keep out AI settlers. Its too early to push culture expansion for domination limit surely? Workers and settlers would be much more valuable to our current needs (or even arty).
We can hire many specialists in these corrupt towns. Currently there are many 0 or 1 food tile being used - this is a waste. Some towns are size 6 and wasting lots of food (Turner Broadcasting has 10fpt wastage and can hire 4 taxmen. I found places for 32 taxmen including Mapquest and Singing Fish which would continue rioting without specialists.

A look at possible landing spots for an invasion fleet (which still needs to be built (? tanks + inf + arty). How about the mountain adjacent PowerPC. After surviving the initial onslaught we can then move to hill 1 north and settle giving a good base for removing IBM's oil (pilage with a suicide cav) and start razing cities. Any thoughts. Its late so I wont start to play till tomorrow.

Time to go on the path of destruction: :ar15: :sniper: :jesus: :spank: :evil:
:satan: :devil: :ninja: :bump: :spear: :evil:

Resistance is Futile! :borg:

Further thought on the matter and the following is my plan
Cancel mpp's as soon as they expire
Peace with Sun and Linux as soon as north isle and home continent settled to prevent AI settlements
Cont war with IBM unless WW hits
Build up invasion force fo planned assault on IBM
Be prepared to adjust plan to invade Apple or Yahoo should they stab us in the back after mpp cancelled
If attack on IBM prepared according to plan, consider MA or MPP with Linux and / or Sun 2 turns prior to D-day to draw IBM's troops northward and prevent potential 3 civs worth of units launching on our landing force

Comments?

Is that an exploit or not?

@Andronicus - I like the plan, but are you sure you can do that in 10 turns? Then again, you did surprise me with how quickly you took out AOL, so I'm ready to be wowed again.

@choxorn - I don't see any reason why it would be one. It's not like we're abusing the game mechanics or anything like that.

@Andronicus - I like the plan, but are you sure you can do that in 10 turns? .


I think that would require Googlers on steroids

No I was merely suggesting a plan for the team towards our goal of world domination. I think my turns will be settling the empty spaces and preparing an invasion force. I suspect we will be attacking with tanks with arty support and infantry to protect. Will play this evening after work ;)

Plan sounds fine to me, but I don't understand one thing. Why are you going to cancel the MPPs asap? Wouldn't it be better to let them run until we are ready to take peace with the other two?

We do not have to renew the MPPs-just let them continue to run. This way if any of our allies take peace before we are ready to accept peace ourselves, the MPPs will drag them back into the conflict if we are attacked and increase the chances of them grinding to a halt with Communism. We will also get a better deal for our PTs if they are at war with more civs. I therefore suggest that we only cancel the MPPs on the turn that we take peace with Sun and Linux but if I am missing something please let me know.

(What's the exploit, choxorn?)

My intention was to get peace once opportunities for AI settlement on our continent and on northern isle prevented.
I guess it depends on whether on balance we are better off at war at that time or not.
You are absolutely right there is no point cancelling the MPPs prior to peace and of course not cancelling them at that time will result in us being forced to break that peace treaty :nono:
So yes I am agreeing with you :crazyeye:

Played half my set - I wont be able to complete until Thursdaty so if someone wants to take over thats fine, otherwise I'll play the other 5 turns then
Quiet turns with only 1 battle (we kill a Linux battleship returning redlined from action against Yahoo). Starting to amass troops to deploy overseas - have collected arty from north isle, have another 15 arty on home continent and so far 10 tanks (tanks and settler in Googlplex). I make it 11 turns till we land in AOL lands with another 8 turns to build up the invasion force with troops able to load from our SE tip for the 3 turn sail across to IBM. We learn flight in 6 turns, so a rushed airport (or worker created airfield -can you make these in vanilla) will allow quick re-inforcement as we should be able to have a few airports up and running by then

Turnlog
Preturn
do a bit of MM
no response to my query of why we're building libs in south so I switch some to settlers and workers where I dont see much territory gain from expansion

IBT
Yahoo decline to renew MPP, so do Apple
Redmond, Analytics, Mirabilis, Sketchup, Weblogs Inc, Web Accelerator, Calendar settler -> worker
PageRank, Pack, AdWorker, New Menlo, New Mountain View worker -> worker
Menlo, Desktop arty -> arty
WebSearch, GMail inf -> inf
Fedora Cove lib -> harbour
Our spy in Helsinki has been captured

1) 1255AD
New GMail settled
cut science back to 70% to maintain positive cash flow, still motorised transport in 3

IBT
IBM pillage - otherwise quiet
Build inf, arty, settler and worker
Propaganda campaign upsets citizens in Scholar - have to hire a clown

2) 1260AD
Peace with Sun - get Motorised Transport for 166g -> flight in 9
switch some builds to tanks
New Groups, New Maps settled in the south

IBT
Sun transport approaches northern isle
Build 4 tanks, 3 arty, destroyer

3) 1265AD
New Local, New Mobile, New Froogle all settled on northern isle and New Finance on home continent (further settlers planned for next conquored continent)

IBT
Page Creator factory -> duct
sink redlined Linux battleship
Build an inf

4) 1270AD
1 lux is worth 80gpt to us
Trade Sun spices for furs, silk, gems + 14gpt

IBT
CNN duct -> lib
RAINMAN lib -> worker
Picasa bank -> rax
Build 1 arty and 5 tanks
Another successful propaganda attack on Scholar - this time need 2 clowns and taxman

5) 1275AD
Collect most of our arty and some inf from northern isle
Spy in Yahoo (couldnt afford one in Linux or IBM)

(What's the exploit, choxorn?)
It's not really an exploit- but it is a bit exploitative of the AI's behavior. :crazyeye:

It's not really an exploit- but it is a bit exploitative of the AI's behavior. :crazyeye:
I'm still not sure what you are referring to though.

Is it the stance on MPPs? If so, then I disagree. It's a deal that either party can cancel after 20 turns. By signing such a deal, there are benefits and risks. You take them both on when you sign the deal.

Is it the signing of an alliance to draw away troops from where we intend to attack? Well, this could happen in real life and also this is nothing that the AI would not consider. Have you never been at war with a distant enemy and then found that they have got one (or more) of your neighbours to ally with them against you? What happens to your troops then? Is it more of an exploit to have a dummy landing that draws troops away from your main target (particularly if it draws them into foreign lands that they do not have a RoP for?) or is that good military strategy? Is it less dubious when the AI has railroaded, so that any of their troops can get to the real landing spot in one turn?

I guess that we all have different views. As far as I'm concerned in an SG; if the team agrees, then it is fine.

Have played till 1300
Unfortunately notepad went kapoot when I tried saving at 1285, fortunately nothing much happened before then except for some trading I captured on screenies

We are now in modern ages and are at war with Yahoos
Still at war with IBM, but at peace with Linux

Yahoo are at war with everyone except Apple and along with IBM are behind the rest techwise by flight, motorised transp and rocketry. We have established a secure base on Yahoo's island and razed our first city (Local)

It's late so I'll post full report with piccies in the morning.

Should be a fun turnset coming up taking over Yahoo's island

well- maybe it's not explotative. I don't know.

Prev report was up to end 1275AD, as mentioned I lost my notes from then till end 1285 :mad: , but fortunately have piccies :D
1275AD
IBT
Linux learns flight
1280AD
We still have 4 turns to learn flight, Linux and Sun have gpt to spare and Linux will quite a lot for peace
so ...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Peace_with_Linux.JPG
trade with Linux ...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/We_buy_flight_and_all_gold.JPG
get free rocketry, get money back
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/We_get_our_money_back.JPG
... with interest :D
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/With_Interest!.JPG
no-one else has money to spend
we are still at war with IBM who are in commie and are still (I think) giving us WH
IBT
Apple now has flight and rocketry (did they learn it or extort it from Sun? - certainly they had no money, gpt nor techs to trade with and diplomatic relations did not change in interturn :confused: )
Lots of WLT(CEO) days thanks to Linux's dyes
1285AD
Building lots of tanks
Transports have taken most troops from northern isle (leaving what I hope is enough to handle sporadic landings - can build an airfield if we need to get troops there in a hurry - if vanilla has airfields?) and are en route to IBM going down our east coast - just realise was 2 turns shorter by west coast from northern isle but not opportunity to load up as late. Anyway too late now.

IBT
Linux and Sun sign MPP (both remain ar war with Yahoo)
CNN lib -> market
Mountain View hospital
Print & Desktop airport -> bomber
Source of oil at Googleplex exhausted (we still have 3 more, but now Linux has 1 :ack: )
We lose insense and large gpt payment from Yahoo, no active deals left with them :mischief: , and our transports happen to be just off their coast at a nice spot for settling on their iron hill :evil:

1295AD
decrease science and have to hire 3 specialists (Menlo Pk as size ? 15 and 2 cities grown but not yet with markets) to keep lux at 0%
Decide to change plans
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Comparative_military.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Before_the_war_1295AD.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/DOW.JPG
Land settler with 2 inf + 21 arty on iron, land 11 tanks, 4 eCav + 10 inf on mountain adj Local
Suddenly find increased happiness (? WH when we were the ones to dow?) so put specialists back to work

IBT
Pollution * 2 :ack:
Sun and Yahoo sign peace
Sun dow Yahoo (:lol: gotta love those MPPs)
Scholar airport -> bomber
Page Creator bank -> rax
New WebSearch lib -> uni

1300AD
Settle New Scholar on iron hill
@ Local our forces are overkill - kill 3 inf + 1 cav, no losses, 1 promotion, 3 slaves (raze it)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Goodbye_Local.JPG

Roster Update

tupaclives
Andronicus - just played
Tone - UP
Sima Qian - on deck

I'm sorry but I will need to ask for a skip again. I'm well behind with my packing and I move house in less than 36 hours.:eek: My internet connection may be lost tomorrow so I can't pick this up with any confidence that I'll be able to post an updated save.

I'm hopeful that internet will be connected swiftly in my new home but I've had a few problems here so please don't rely on me until I post here again.

Sorry to mess you around yet again.

Alright, time to conquer the world! :devil:

Er... okay. Looks like I got it again, although things have been somewhat busy. If I don't post my turns after 72 hours, please skip me and go to the next player.

Take your turnset and conquer the world? :D :lol: Or at least Yahoo!'s island?
In case you haven't noticed, I just want to see a cool invasion or something...

We're a bit thin on the ground (player wise - not unit wise ;) ) so I suggest relaxing the 72 hours a little, otherwise turns will come around pretty quick.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you but Yahoo is still around at the end of my turnset, and we've also gotten into another war. Here goes:

Turn 0 (1300 AD)

I see war with IBM and Yahoo, mostly building military back at home. We seem to be in decent shape.
Apple, Linux, and Sun are willing to RoP with us, but none of them will pay us even 1 gold for it. Lame...

Switch Googleplex to a hospital, since we are wasting some tiles around there.
Switch Calendar to a library, it will net us more tiles with first culture expansion.
Switch Mapquest to settler, since the lib in Calendar will be doing cultural stuff.
Wake up the swordsman in AdSense, move him over to Calendar and disband for 7 shields. An obsolete unit won't help us much.
Some other MM'ing, nothing substantial there.

I hit enter.

IBT:

Yahoo just moves units around, no counterattack.
Sun moves its fleet north, out of our view.
Naval battle around Punch card between IBM, Linux, and Apple, but somehow they ignore our boats there.

Turn 1 (1305 AD)

Googleplex: Hospital -> Tank
Redmond: Worker -> Worker
Analytics: Worker -> Worker
PageRank: Worker -> Worker
Menlo Park: Tank -> Battleship
Mirabilis ICQ: Worker -> Worker
Nullsoft: Library -> Worker
Web Search: Tank -> Tank
Gmail: Tank -> Tank
Web Accelerator: Worker -> Worker
Page Creator: Barracks -> Tank
Talk: Tank -> Tank
Fedora Core: Harbor -> Factory
Picasa: Tank -> Tank
New Menlo Park: Worker -> Worker
New Mountain View: Worker -> Worker

Bombard and sink an IBM destroyer (1-0).
Attack Mobile with tanks, but we have some heavy losses (8-6). Maybe I should have waited for artillery. Raze Mobile.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/d7feefab90dd487380be7cd00cc3439d.PNG

Sell the temple in Froogle, since it's no longer under any cultural pressure. Switch Froogle to Hospital, we could use battlefield medicine later on.

IBT:

A Yahoo counterattack kills 2 infantry and a tank with cavs (13-9).

Turn 2 (1310 AD)

Mountain View: Tank -> Tank
Singingfish: Worker -> Worker
Desktop: Bomber -> Bomber
Video: Airport -> Hospital
Turner Broadcasting: Worker -> Worker
New Maps: Worker -> Worker

No combat, but units moved into position for attacking GeoCities.
Ironclads disconnect one of Yahoo's saltpeter sources.
Hire a clown in Menlo Park, a taxman in CNN to prevent rioting.

Science cut back by 10% to keep positive gpt, still got ecology in 2 turns though.

IBT:

Linux and Yahoo sign peace.
Apple and Linux sign peace.
Apple and IBM sign peace.
Apple demands gems, I tell them to stuff it. They declare war.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/8f5acaa62535408fbb4b128f64c72695.PNG

We lose our two ships (destroyer + ironclad) near the IBM coast (13-11).

Turn 3 (1315 AD)

Googleplex: Tank -> Tank
Web Search: Tank -> Tank
Gmail: Tank -> Battleship
Print: Bomber -> Hospital
Froogle: Tank -> Hospital
Scholar: Bomber -> Bomber
Page Creator: Tank -> Tank
Talk: Tank -> Tank
Picasa: Tank -> Tank

Yahoo has founded Local northeast of New Scholar, and they are currently in anarchy (!!).
Bombard and raze GeoCities without a loss (19-11).
Bombard and raze Road Runner without a loss (21-11).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/91b0f2cef0da4f5ea1b353b2a62fa0eb.PNG

Finally I get to start on the Iron Works:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/76a8b8eb831d4b9db6304ca3f27a3f6f.PNG

Kill a Yahoo cav that was wandering around (22-11).

Try to plant a spy in Cupertino, and fail.
Try to plant a spy in ThinkPad, and succeed.

MM a little to take advantage of war happiness.

Linux has Space Flight.
As much as I hate to give them more lux, I think it's still better to keep Linux at war. MA with them against Apple.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/3f72ef0f1ebb4560aa4af9197cf0ae25.PNG

IBT:

Ugh... Yahoo attacks with cavs again, 3 tanks lost (27-14).
Sun lands a huge stack next to Local.

Turn 4 (1320 AD)

Ecology researched. You might recall that this mod got corrupted with some of the rules from v1.07, so recycling is needed as a prerequisite for synthetic fibers. Research set to recycling, due in 13 turns at 80% science.

OpenLook: Library -> University

Yahoo in democracy (???!!!)

IBT:

The more, the merrier:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/fb379eedfed34385b783429dcdeda688.PNG

Sun attacks and autorazes Local.
Apple bombards our southern coast with planes and ships.
IBM lands a stack of 8 cavs next to Redmond.

Turn 5 (1325 AD)

Googleplex: Tank -> Tank
Menlo Park: Battleship -> Battleship
Mountain View: Tank -> Tank
Web Search: Tank -> Tank
Desktop: Bomber -> Bomber
RAINMAN: Worker -> Worker
Page Creator: Tank -> Tank
Talk: Tank -> Tank
Picasa: Tank -> Tank
New Web Search: University -> Factory

Blitz with 4 tanks and wipe out IBM stack, getting some nice combat experience as all of them promote to elite (35-14).
Attack and raze Finance with no loss (39-14).
No idea why I'm building a hospital in Video, switch to bomber.

Recycling due in 11 turns now.

IBT:

Kill two Yahoo cavs on the defensive (41-14).
Apple continues to bomb us. Linux loses a battleship to Apple, and Sun loses a cav to Yahoo.

Turn 6 (1330 AD)

Froogle: Hospital -> Tank
Scholar: Bomber -> Bomber

War weariness sets in (or maybe war happiness goes away). Our whole core is unhappy. I look around, and see Sun Microsystems willing to trade ivory. But first, sell ecology around...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/296e19f62a664b37bc023ba07a37e9cd.PNG

followed by...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/e29a74c02c4445269f0e91473e69d51f.PNG

My rationale for selling ecology is that Linux has a ton of gold that they would probably waste if we didn't grab it, and perhaps we can trick the AI into wasting shields on mass transit and solar plants.

Research bumped to 100%, making 27gpt, recycling due in 8 turns.

Plant a spy in Cupertino, and this is what we see:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/56d262b4ca98428085d808c73595175c.PNG

IBT:

Yahoo rebuilds GeoCities on an aluminum tile. They're still in IA, but I guess the AI still knows where the aluminum is.

Turn 7 (1335 AD)

Googleplex: Tank -> Battlefield Medicine
CNN: Marketplace -> University
Web Search: Tank -> Tank
GMail: Battleship -> Battleship
Print: Hospital -> Bomber
Video: Bomber -> Bomber
Page Creator: Tank -> Tank
Talk: Tank -> Tank
Picasa: Tank -> Tank

Kill an infantry and autoraze GeoCities (42-14).

IBT:

IBM and Yahoo sign peace.
Yahoo counterattacks, we kill 1 cav and lose 1 infantry (43-15).
IBM lands a stack of obsolete units outside New Scholar on Yahoo's island.

Turn 8 (1340 AD)

Desktop: Bomber -> Jet Fighter
New Googleplex: Aqueduct -> University

Bombard the heck out of Sunnyvale, the capital of Yahoo. Most of the artillery ends up destroying buildings and killing citizens, but the city is still taken without a loss (49-15).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/72ac2b14f5074f09b87e49e3f5cbe243.PNG

Raze Sunnyvale. Their palace jumps to Web Directory.

IBT:

Yahoo counterattacks with cavs and their only tank, which blitzes us and kills 2 of our tanks (53-18).
IBM cavs that landed also attack us and kill an infantry and a tank (56-20). But while defending against them:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/728acbb4205a459a8adf26b7bb085eed.PNG

Turn 9 (1345 AD)

Menlo Park: Battleship -> Battleship
Web Search: Tank -> Tank
Froogle: Tank -> Tank
Scholar: Bomber -> Jet Fighter
Page Creator: Tank -> Tank
Talk: Tank -> Tank
Picasa: Tank -> Tank

Sink a Mac battleship off OpenLook (57-20).
Sink a Yahoo battleship off Briefcase (58-20).
Bomber lost to a jet fighter while trying to bombard iMac (58-21).
Kill Yahoo tank that attacked us (59-21).
Wipe out the IBM stack of pikemen (63-21).
Use Larry Page to make an army at New Scholar, and load it with tanks.

IBT:

Yahoo tanks kill a tank and an infantry while losing one of their own (59-23).
Apple lands a stack of tanks by Redmond.

Turn 10 (1350 AD)

Writely: Worker -> Settler
Orkut: Aqueduct -> Factory
Blogger: Marketplace -> Factory

Attack Briefcase with tanks, lose one while killing 4 defenders (63-24). Raze Briefcase.
Bring some units back from Yahoo (including the army) to wipe out the stack at Redmond (69-24).
Sink a destroyer from Apple that was escorting a transport (70-24).
Lose a battleship to IBM destroyer (70-25).
Kill a Yahoo cavalry and get 2 slaves from the settler it was escorting (71-25).
Lose two tanks attacking Web Directory, but this happens:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/ef008387575a434095fa979ac69abb60.PNG

Raze Web Directory. The Yahoo capital jumps to Groups, a city with mostly desert and grassland tiles.

Current Situation

- I raised lux to 10% to deal with WW, but I'm not sure if that's necessary. We would have to hire clowns in about a dozen cities if I didn't do that, but we could probably keep science at 100% that way. Recycling is due in 4 turns at 100% science, 5 turns at 90% science. I haven't tested to see if we can still get it in 4 turns if we hire clowns.
- 13 turns left on MA with Linux against Apple. We will probably want peace with Apple ASAP, but keep in mind that they might still be giving us war happiness.
- Yahoo has made it to modern age, but they don't have any modern age techs. I've pillaged what I think is their only source of rubber, so they shouldn't be able to build any more tanks or infantry. Still can't grab their incense yet - need to raze another couple of cities, and probably make a colony with a slave worker and rush a harbor in New Scholar to connect it.
- Yahoo has no more tanks, only infantry - but they might still have a tank or two in production. I'm still fairly confident that tupaclives will be able to wipe them off the map during his upcoming turnset, and hopefully that will help with our WW problem as well.
- Speaking of which, a bunch of slave workers have been loaded into transports, perhaps they can be brought back to work on the mainland.
- I have no clue what to do with Sergey Brin. He is idling in New Scholar right now. There are no transports that have movement left to bring him back to the mainland. I don't know if he should turn into another army, or perhaps saved for rushing the UN, in case Linux or Apple try for that wonder.
- Heroic Epic is being built in Page Creator, Battlefield Medicine in Googleplex. Heroic Epic can be completed in 1 turn in Googleplex and Battlefield Medicine in 7 turns if the two cities are switched around. Depends on what you think has higher priority, I guess. Military Academy is also available but probably not as important - maybe it can be a prebuild for something later on?
- I'm building jet fighters in some places so that we can do some air superiority, the bombardment we're getting from Apple's planes is getting annoying.
- Settlers are being produced in some of our corrupt towns in former AOL territory. I think I probably should have cash rushed some of them to fill in Yahoo's land. After all, we do have more than 3000 gold, and the upgrade to modern armor isn't going to happen for a while.
- Linux has a monopoly on Space Flight and could very possibly be building spaceship parts already. I haven't tried to plant a spy with them yet, as I don't want to lose the gpt we are getting from them. Maybe it wasn't a good idea to let them have lux after all.
- Sun Microsystems lacks 4 resources - iron, coal, oil, and aluminum. But they're broke and won't pay us anything for them.
- Just an odd idea... if Apple lands a huge stack on the tundra island, and we can't defend against them, how about giving those cities away to Linux, teleporting our units back, and letting Linux lose those cities (potentially causing WW for them?). Unless you consider that an exploit....

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ1_1350AD.zip

Wow, 2 GL's! I guess that's about as cool as I could expect. I have more to say, but am out of time right now. Bye!

Roster Update

tupaclives - UP
Andronicus - on deck
Tone - skipped
Sima Qian - just played

Okay, here's what more I had to say:



Finally I get to start on the Iron Works:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/76a8b8eb831d4b9db6304ca3f27a3f6f.PNG


woohoo! Iron Works!


Yahoo in democracy (???!!!)


WTF!!!??? :eek: :vomit: :hmm: :wow: :dubious: :smoke: The AI never
uses democracy in war! Oh well, they just make things easier for you :lol:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/296e19f62a664b37bc023ba07a37e9cd.PNG


Why'd you get demo?


Plant a spy in Cupertino, and this is what we see:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/56d262b4ca98428085d808c73595175c.PNG


WTF, Apple still has a spear and some pikes??? :lol:



- I have no clue what to do with Sergey Brin. He is idling in New Scholar right now. There are no transports that have movement left to bring him back to the mainland. I don't know if he should turn into another army, or perhaps saved for rushing the UN, in case Linux or Apple try for that wonder.
- Linux has a monopoly on Space Flight and could very possibly be building spaceship parts already. I haven't tried to plant a spy with them yet, as I don't want to lose the gpt we are getting from them. Maybe it wasn't a good idea to let them have lux after all.
- Sun Microsystems lacks 4 resources - iron, coal, oil, and aluminum. But they're broke and won't pay us anything for them.
- Just an odd idea... if Apple lands a huge stack on the tundra island, and we can't defend against them, how about giving those cities away to Linux, teleporting our units back, and letting Linux lose those cities (potentially causing WW for them?). Unless you consider that an exploit....


Maybe you should try for U.N., but you need a way to stop the Penguins from launching an SS too. If Sun doesn't have those resources, well, then, they're screwed. :lol: As for the tundra island, that's not really an exploit except for the fact that you're the only one who gains. Just do whatever you want.

@choxorn:

- Yahoo probably thought they could get a greater advantage from war happiness, because we declared war on them. Big mistake.
- Why did I get democracy from the trade? Linux had no more gold or gpt to offer, so why shouldn't I milk them for as much as they have?
- I'm really not surprised by Apple having spears and pikes around, they're in communism and obviously rather strapped for cash.

tupaclives (or whoever ends up taking the next few turns):
- I really regret not cash rushing a settler, we could probably have secured some incense several turns earlier. Apparently Yahoo is trading with Linux and Apple, and I can almost guarantee that incense is involved in that. If we can force them to break those deals, we can also slow down the other AI's, not just Yahoo.