GOTM 53 First Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have:


Reached the middle-ages.
Met all other civilizations.
Have enough of the world map to know the locations of all capital cities.

What was your strategy in the early game? Did you try to get off the starting continent and use your unique unit to full effect? Or are you more content to expand peacefully, and wait until the middle ages to begin military expansion?

I built 4 cities on the starting island and beelined for MM. By the time I got it, the island was fully improved with barracks everywhere and a couple of pre-builds for galleys, which swarmed around the world to meet everyone pretty soon. I built two additional cities, one to claim furs, the other to claim horses. The rest was GS, GS, GS for the rest of the game, claiming conquest victory at 760 AD.

I never built another single city improvement in the core and stayed in despotism: my production of GS was good enough. I did use a leader to make Rome my FP city and built a couple of cities around it... again, they only made a barracks and then GS. I did keep on researching because I wasn't sure if GS would have to face pikes. In the end I made it all the way to chivalry (I dodged feudalism for a long time to be able to keep building GS) and even built a couple of MI and knights, but never had to use them. So it's an AAC I guess.

I should have incited warfare between the Vikings and the Iroqois while I was dealing with the rest of the world, because the latter put up a pretty good fight. The lack of infrastructure really slowed me down. I had galleys shuttling GS between the islands all the time, and workers roading the tiles inbetween rally points, but could not keep up with my progress.

[ptw]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifPredator Conquest Challenge

Having A Lonely Start

My first move was to move the Worker up on the hill south-west of the
starting location. Plenty of grassland but no fresh water nor any Food
Bonus came in sight, so I settled in place and founded Entremont in
4000 BC. Production was set to Warrior, research to Pottery and the
science budget to 100%. The Worker was sent to mine and then road the
Bonus Grassland north-north-west.

After the Warrior I set production to Barracks in the hope of having a
close-by neighbour. Having failed to locate one in the south, I
changed to Settler as a pre-build for a Granary. Reaching 30 Shields
one turn before discovering Pottery I lost five Shields (my per-turn
quantum) before I could switch. Still better than other available
pre-builds. Granary completed in 3050 BC.

The Worker after finishing improving the Bonus Grassland trekked back
south to chop down the forest on the Game. Since this was Play the
World, the timber helped promote the construction not of the Granary
nor of the first Settler after the Granary, but that of the second
Settler.

I operated a flexible Combo Factory with Settlers arriving
approximately every ten turns and forest chops aiding the construction
of a fairly early Barracks (1870 BC) and later a Temple in the capital
motivated by the shortage of luxuries.

4000 BC Found Entremont
2630 BC Found Mohács
2350 BC Found Lugdunum
1950 BC Found Camulodunum
1600 BC Found Richborough
1400 BC Found Verulamium

Three cities were placed at distance 4 from the capital and two
further away on the extreme points of the island. I actually harvested
the forest on the south-eastern spit before settling there.

The reason I founded the third distance-4 city, Verulamium, last was
that I had originally planned to found it at distance 3 on the Bonus
Grassland in order to maximise the number of coastal tiles that could
be worked. Rather late I realised, that the cost in corruption would
probably negate any commercial profits and that shields are more
important than gold when taking over the world using Gallic Swordsmen.


3300 BC Discover Pottery
2350 BC Discover Alphabet
1650 BC Discover Writing
1125 BC Discover Map Making

At this time, Entermont had stopped building Settlers and in 1075 my
first Galley was launched in this city, after which a Harbor was
constructed.


Quick Start Challenge Results

6 Cities
20 Citizens
2 Temples
1 Granary
3 Barracks
2 Harbors
5 Workers
12 Warriors
1 Galley

2077 QSC Points


Learning about the Neighbours

I sent the Galley east and north searching farthest first and met the
others fairly late. The first three alien tribes had made the same
discoveries as I and more, but luckily I then met Egypt who not only
hadn't, but also as the only one knew Polytheism.

850 BC Meet Rome
850 BC Learn The Wheel
850 BC Learn Bronze Working
850 BC Discover Code of Laws
825 BC Meet Scandinavia
825 BC Meet Iroquois
825 BC Meet Egypt
825 BC Learn Polytheism
825 BC Learn Mysticism
825 BC Learn Masonry
825 BC Learn Iron Working
825 BC Learn Horseback Riding

I now founded three cities off shore in order to claim in order:
Horses, Furs and Incense. I also as first met Babylon and learned some
more technologies.

750 BC Found Gergovia
590 BC Found Augustodurum
410 BC Found Agedincum

710 BC Meet Babylon
710 BC Learn Mathematics
690 BC Learn Philosophy
690 BC Discover Literature
390 BC Learn Construction


Getting to The Main Business

It was time to get started with conquering the world. Rome would have
to suffer my Gallic Swords first. Unfortunately the attack would
trigger a Golden Age while I was still ruling through Despotism, but I
had a very dirty trick up my sleeve...

150 BC War Rome
150 BC Enter Golden Age
150 BC Capture Antium
130 BC Capture Lutetia
70 BC Capture Rome
70 BC Peace Rome
70 BC Learn The Republic
70 BC Learn Currency
70 BC Instigate Revolution
70 BC War Rome
50 BC Establish Republic

After capturing Rome (the city), I made peace with Rome (the tribe)
for gpt, traded for The Republic and Currency, entered the Middle Ages
and instigated a revolution only to then declare war on Rome again
before the turn was over, nullifying, together with the spotlessness
of my reputation, the gpt deal. The next turn the rule of Republic was
established in my lands and only one turn of Golden-Age commerce and
production had been lost thanks to the Religious Trait of the Celts.



The island in 1000 BC:

I move the Worker SE and decide to found Entremont 2SE. In hindsight this made me lose two movements without any real benefits.

Research is set to Pottery and then I go straight to MM which is the last tech I will research myself. For the rest of the game science is set to 0 and I stay in despotism through to the end.

I found four more cities on the starting island that as I soon find out is completely to myself. In all five cities I build granaries, barracks and temples (as I have some happiness concerns), no other improvements are ever to be constructed except for one harbour. Production is entirely dedicated to warriors and gs (once iron is connected).

The neighbour island is visible from the southern tip and I place a warrior there. Soon enough a roman warrior steps by and my contact is then sold to everyone subsequently so that I know all tribes before leaving my island. Unfortunately all the others think I am so backwards that they are very reluctant selling techs. I barely manage to get BW and IW, but that proves to be enough.

Fortunately there is iron on our island so I start upgrading warriors and producing gs. I also have two prebuilds running for galleys.

Soon after learning MM I complete galleys and move my gs and immediately declare on the romans. Real luck with leaders then, I get a leader on my 2nd or 3rd elite win. I extort all techs, money from the romans for peace and that gets me literature. The next turn I build the great library and redeclare on the romans. All throughout the game I would sue for peace to get some cities that were off my track and would immediately redeclare. Astonishingly the AI would still give me peace deals??

Got another leader and build the FP in Rome. Soon the romans are gone and I take on the egypts. I get another leader that builds me an army (stupid, as with my limited tech knowledge I will never be able to move that thing off the egyptian island).

Midway in the egyptian campaign the Great Library brings me into the MA. However, I am never going to discover a MA tech and fortunately nobody ever builds pikes (the iroquois discover feudalism but do not connect their iron, so much for AI).

I have so far attacked rome, and have taken most of the land north of Rome. I got a GL, and used him to make an army. I thought about going for the FP, but decided getting a leader for Hero Epic to get more leaders would be more advantageous.

Current plan is to conquer Rome and Egypt, then research my way to a SS vic.

Well, I had a badly flawed game plan and some bad luck giving me an absolutely horrific ancient age. I wanted to attempt a 100k victory, and made a mistake in building early temples in all the home island cities. Then built troops in preparation for map making and getting off the island. All the troops and temples crippled my economy, and thus my research.

Got off the island at a very late date, and established a beachead on Roman soil. Lost it a few turns later, due in part to some bad RNG luck. Established a second beachhead on Roman soil, lost it due to my own stupidity.

Finally got established and beat up on the Romans with GS. I'm far behind others in tech. I knocked them down to a couple of small cities, then nearly gained tech parity with the world through my peace treaty with Rome. Enter MA at 800 AD!!!:eek:

I'm way behind in this game and stand a very good chance to lose at Regent level, yikes.

4000BC
Ok thsi one I play for real, so lets think what i want first.I think Con/Dom is the normal wy to go and I stay with that aiming for comparing my game to other people.

I also played a few testgames and there seems to be a 50% chance that an early 2 archer rush nets a succesfull attack. On the other hand in one of 5 games I was on a island looking mightily stupid. In the other two games I conquered at least one worker or settler with them, so lets give it a try especially with all that production around.

I dont think there is anyone northwards, so i leave that alone for the beginning and move my worker SW. The BG looks tempting, but the isthmuss is nice too and I want a fast build. So I settle in place and live from the game. Hmm doesnt look to smart as another BG comes into view just outside my range.

Production is barracks and research is pottery.

3650 BC
Barracks build, Worker is mining the norther BG by now. First Archer build.

3500 BC
finishes just in time for the growth, starts working on road.

3450 BC
Archer build looks to the south.

3400 BC
Pottery founded.

3300 BC
ARRGLL ainwood really placed us in the middle of nowhere. switch second archer for Settler and start cranking up the economy.

2420 BC
made two misclicks, one stopping a well timed forest chop. Is there any easy way to find out how long a worker still has to toil? Well First settler is finally there, decide on RCP 4Mostly because that leaves the BGs open to be used.

2390 BC
Found Mohacs to the NW .

1870 BC
Lugdunum founded on the Hill 3 to the south.

1650 BC
Camolodunum founded on Eastern cape. Room for one more city in the south and may one rank 6 city on north cape. I see the light, e.g. the next coast :-) Just need a ship or a good simmer to get there. Mohacs almost riots at teh sugeestion of swimming a mere 20 miles.

1375 BC
Richborough (?) founded on Northcap

1225 BC
Verulanium founded in the middle of the southrn coast. Now the long wait for Mapmaking starts.

1000 BC

6 cities
14 Pop
5 Warrior
2 Archer
6 Worker
9 turns until MM
32 Gold
QSC 1673

725 BC
finally MM, 1 prebuild galley, 2 prebuild Harbours ready.

690 BC
landing in the middle of a sea of red.

670 BC
so rome it is. Surprise! Surprise! lets find out how backward we are. Horrible, and the prices for bying things are gigantic too. Maybe my ships need to find some other people first.

650 BC
scandinavia sells BW and IW. Something went wrong with the map planing, there is Iron on our little rock. I start Upgarding and building Swordsman.

530 BC
Augustodorum founded near Furs.

230 BC
War with Rome. Plan is to steal the irons as soon as possible from Rome to avoid any more legionaires.

170 BC
Second trade orgy. have most 3rd tier Techs now. Only poly, construction and currency missing.

130 BC
GLH Build in entremont. Pyramids build in Rome (thank you so much)

230 AD
Finally Rome fell in the third attemp to an Army of 8 GS. Last turn I also traded myself into the MA so lets call it a night. Doesn't look like an early victory at all. Probably should have gone after some other poor guys first. But now their Iron is gone and teh rest sould be easy. No MGL means my second core has to wait for a while.

As usual after starting the War I got caught up in the game and forgot the Log and unfortunately also the careful play. So I twice got a city in revolt and also overlooked the single roman galley which cost me my fur city. Afterwards I lost 2 veteran galleys while trying to kill the roman landing force on the sea. That cost me another city, which was immediately captured back. But also this was a serious dent in my shipping lines, costing me 5 turns without reinforcements on the mainland, which hurt my second attempt on Rome. When I finally got my new force of GS over the channel, the rest the caesarians where history pretty soon.

In general I must say, the idea to start a war with rome immediately was probably a fault. I did so, to remove his access to iron, which worked out quite well, as he had only 3 Legionaires, two of which I caught in the open. But the third one in Rome stalled my attack for over 20 turns. And I also got caught in a horrible early GA, which was basically wasted on reinforcements for the war. Instead I should have used the large holes on the western continent to settle a complete second core there before starting the war later against the Vikings and tackle the romans, when there UU was obsolete. I think I will definitely play this game a second time to improve my style in this area, and get a better idea, of how this will go.


PS: City Placement looks exactly like Pius, just fewer people due to the rong start. I will never trust in Niceties from the GOTM staff again.

predator, conquest

Good job, Crakie. Your game is a lot like mine, but you're one turn faster :goodjob:

city placement on the island is the same as Più's, only didn't I found a city at the place of Richborough.

-1000 4 settlers, 7 workers, 3 warriors, 6 archers, 5 cities, 1 palace, 2 barracks, 3 granaries
CB, WC, potts, alpha, writing

-900 mapmaking

-690 through trade and swindle we get many techs: myst, wheel, hbr, masonry, bronze and iron
dow Rome

-230 FP founded in Rome
10 Rome defeated, dow Egypt, we're a monarchy
230 Egypt defeated, dow Babylon
390 Babylon defeated, dow Scandinavia, they have great wall
580 Scandinavia defeated, dow Iroqouis, they get a golden age
770 Iroqouis defeated, Jason 9738

Unfortunately Iroqouis had Pyramids, so I think my Jason will not be very competitive
we never entered the MA

I get another leader that builds me an army (stupid, as with my limited tech knowledge I will never be able to move that thing off the egyptian island).

Forming an Army may not have been the stupid part, but rather filling it with more than one Gallic Swordsman when not on the Continent.

Next time, put just one unit in the Army, win an easy battle (e.g. red-lined Spearman) and go ahead and build the Heroic Epic. Move the one-unit Army in a Galley to the Continent and there fill it up with two additional units.

Is there any easy way to find out how long a worker still has to toil?

Click once on the Worker and you get a pop-up which tells you how many turns are left. There choose the option to let the Worker work in peace.

Don't forget that improvements count towards the inter-turn when they finish: when the pop-up says one turn left you can already move a citizen onto the tile and although it is not shown in that turn, the expected benefits are actually recorded in the inter-turn as can be observed the turn after.

Good job, Crakie. Your game is a lot like mine, but you're one turn faster :goodjob:


Thanks, but I am ashamed to say I did the conquests variant. Not intentionally really, but upon realizing I downloaded the wrong save (I wanted predator as well) I could not be bothered going back to get the right one. As a handicap I did exclusively use honorable tactics, as in DoW only when my units were still outside AI borders and respecting 20 turn deals (no fake peace deals in other words). It seemed the right thing to do at regent :D

Your Jason score is also alot better, I think you had more (or happier) population going for ya. This is where the conquests variant may have bitten me in the behind, since many Roman and Egyptian cities were autorazed because I could get to them so early and I never bothered rebuilding them.

open, ptw, 20k

again i didn't build pyramid but almost everything else. regent AI wasn't that keen in building wonders. however the hanging garden was lost due to a cascade.

i was having very good luck attacking Rome. with only two Gallic Swordsmen, i started my war against Rome and didn't lose a single one until i conquered 2 cities. despite a relatively low production (with Entroment devoted to culture), the low casualty helped me push the war quite far. but wasn't able to take Rome and had to sue for peace finally. however a little rest during the 20 turns help me recuperate and the new attack finally sent Rome to a small island.

this level is quite friendly to 20K, but the map isn't at all. with all those wonders built on my home continents, which contains only 4 cities, i feel all the wonders have been wasted. in this aspect, i'm lucky that Iraquois built the pyramid. :)

Thanks, but I am ashamed to say I did the conquests variant.

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't think the predator handicaps are very decisive, but the conquest-benefits make the games not very comparable. With conquests one can leave the island considerable sooner (having alpha) and one can build up to 25% more GS for the same amount of shields.

Your Jason score is also alot better, I think you had more (or happier) population going for ya.
I'm afraid the Jason isn't comparable either, as conquest gets 15% reductions.

First impressions
Small map, 5 adversaries and 4 of them have their UU's in AA. Will go for either domination or conquest depending on the situation later in the game. A lot of one tile islands and conquest might be a no-no.

I settle in place and start building a warrior. Researching Pottery at 100%.

First builds
Warrior followed by a Barracks, 2 Archers and a Settler. Mohacs founded in 2750BC. Builds in Entremont continued with a cycle of 2 Archers and a Settler until the end of the QSC period. 5 Location at 1000BC with 3 Workers active and 13 Archers. Archers ready for a landing in Roman territory as soon as I have MM. Quickly discovered I was on a small island with no access to fresh water, so building Archers for aggressive actions without a pre-republic GA was my plan.

Meeting the neighbours
Put a Warrior on the southern peninsula hoping for a neighbour's scout to show up. Finally paid off 1575BC when a Roman showed up. A few turns later I was in contact with Iroquois and Vikings through Roman trade. Met Egypt in 510BC and map trading that turn gave info on where Babylon was located. Finally "knew" them in 490BC.

Tech advances
Severely hampered by the startup conditions of not having any room to expand and no fresh water. Did not feel like a regent game at all. Late to MM also restrained my ability to expand.
Potter reserched 3350BC
Alphabet researched 2270BC
Writing researched 1550BC
The Wheel (Romans) 1525BC
Masonry (Vikings) 1450BC
MM researched 925BC
Philosophy researched 710BC
BW (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
HBR (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
Maths (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
IW (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
Myst (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
CoL researched 490BC
Currency (Iroquois) 490BC
Poly (?) 490BC
Construction (Vikings) 330BC
Enter MA.

Cry havoc and let the dogs of war
About 10 Archers in position to attack Rome in 750BC. First location, size 1, destroyed in 730BC. Rome falls in 610BC and I accept a peace offer with Neapolis, Hispalis and Pisae as "reparations". Re-declared war in 570BC and Veii falls in 550BC. New Peace in 490BC for Pompeii. 3rd Roman war started in 350BC and Cumae falls in 330BC. Ravenna is the final location they have but the fate of Ravenna is for another thread as I enter MA this turn.

Summary
Slow start. Archers only so as to allow GA during Republic, right or wrong? Hope for an AI to get me Republic so I only research it at 40 turns. Will that prove to be a good call? Have stopped producing Archers at this point and prepare for a switch to GS. Not a single GL, even with loads of Elite attacks. Built the GLH only to discover I was not helped by it.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Wotanmap.JPG

Decided to go for a 20k cultural victory. Built the GL and if I had built lots of warriors I could have upgraded to the UU with all the cash the GL freed up. I've never played the Celts before and missed this trick. Stuck now with 8 or 9 cities that cannot produce enough UU's to really have a go at beating down the other civs. My 20k city hasn't got the production for an early 20k victory so it's looking like a late 20k victory or a long and very slow domination victory. Hmmm!!

Decided to go for a 20k cultural victory. Built the GL and if I had built lots of warriors I could have upgraded to the UU with all the cash the GL freed up.
i've learned through my past failure that to get a good date, you shouldn't really slow your research down, especially on regent level where AI won't be too helpful...

Diplomatic

Build warriors and archers.
Going to Rome and destroy in 70 bc. :mad:
I have two great leaders 1 going to a army witch gallic swordsman.
To the other make I a forbidden palace in Rome.:)
Build fast more settlers.
And going to the next land and build 1 city witch a temple
the city may not run over with culture. :eek:
Make a way to a iron.
I have now 4 iron .:p
And make a way to a incense.

going to medieval age:)

Ainwood

you say:
GOTM 52 First Spoiler

mare it is gotm 53:p :p :p

Archers only so as to allow GA during Republic, right or wrong?

Difficult to say before your Middle Ages spoiler. You have done away with the Romans faster than most. The sheer amount of Bonus Grassland speaks for a Golden Age under Republican rule. That's seven or eight shields per turn times twenty, about three Gallic Swordsmen extra.

Hope for an AI to get me Republic so I only research it at 40 turns. Will that prove to be a good call?

Waiting long for Republic and only then releasing the Gallic Swordsmen could mean losing the above advantages over other strategies.

Difficult to say before your Middle Ages spoiler. You have done away with the Romans faster than most. The sheer amount of Bonus Grassland speaks for a Golden Age under Republican rule. That's seven or eight shields per turn times twenty, about three Gallic Swordsmen extra.
Three wars on Rome was nice. I gained most of Roman territory through peace treaties. Only attacked one or two locations during each war.


Waiting long for Republic and only then releasing the Gallic Swordsmen could mean losing the above advantages over other strategies.
Well, let's see what happened in the next spoiler thread. ;) It was all a question of AI help with Republic or not. If they researched Republic soon after I entered the MA the plan might work. If I had to wait for 40 turns to get Republic it would be quite a different story.

Short Question:

Given lack of progress in my first 2 roman wars, How many GS shoudl one have, before starting the war. I had rather few 7-10, But I thought waiting any longer would mean more Legions to encounter.

Thanks

Kulko

PTW Open. 20K.

4000BC.
Location, location.
Current location has only 9 workable tiles. Worker1 SE on the next hill to look around. That one has 11 tiles which are no worse, so Settler goes there.

3950BC. Entremont, Palace.
Start Temple - due in 10.
As we settle down another BG comes into sight. At size 6 we can work 2BG + Game on forest, and 2 forests, then we'll have to use a G. We might want to chop a 3rd forest as we can't use it anyway and it might reveal a BG. Chop will end right after Temple is built, can go into Warrior.
Research BW for Colossus: due in 20.

3500BC - Temple. Start Warrior.
3400BC - Chop ends, reveals BG! Warrior is done. Start Settler - due in 8, growth in 9. Deside to build it anyway and not waste time on another warrior, to start Colossus sooner.
Warrior explores South. Sees another shore and stays there, just in case.

3000BC - BW learned. What next? We need prebuild for after Colossus. Masonry? OK, in 16.
2950BC - Settler built, start Colossus. Settler SW-S-S to the hilly tip - 1st in RCP-4 cities.
2900BC - Mohacs founded. Build warrior, worker. Warrior explores North and we see that we are on a small island. :(
2310BC - Masonry learned, start Alpha, due in 17.
1700BC - Alpha learned, start Writing. Entremont grows to 5, works Gold 4 turns till Colossus.

1650BC - Colossus. Start Pyramid prebuild.

1425BC - Lugdunum founded on Southern forest tip (2nd RCP4), starts barracks.
1325BC - Writing Learned. Start Lit. - due in 15.

QSC, 1000BC - 3 towns, pop 9. 2 workers, 5 warriors (3 vet), Colossus, 1 temple, 2 barracks. No contacts.
Added BW, Masonry, Alpha, Writing to starting Techs. 1 turn till Literature. 12 turns till GLib prebuild.

975BC - Learned Lit. Switch prebuild to GLib. Next is Pottery in 4.
875BC - Pottery learned. Start MM - due in 15.
800BC - Camulodumum founded, start Galley prebuild.
775BC - Workers chop 2 forests to hurry Library in Entremont after GLib completes in 3 turns.

730BC - GLib. Start Library.

710BC - Red warrior moves onto Southern tip. We make contact - it's Romans. We are up Lit, they have Egypt contact but won't trade.
We sell them Lit & WM for Mysticism, 35g and their TM.
670BC - Forest goes to Library, reveals BG!
We are contacted by Vikings. They don't give us contact with Babs for Lit, and we keep Literature to ourselves.
Then we are contacted by Iroquese, who can give us Polytheism for Lit, 25g and 1gpt. That's more like it - other guys don't have it, so we make a trade.
Then Egypt contacts us, we can get MM and TM for Lit.

650BC - Get Wheel, HBR and IW from GLib. Not much.
Should we press on for Monarchy or rush to Construction?
Buy Babs contact and TM from Vikings for Polytheism and WM.
Sell Lit to Babs for 25g and their TM.
Iroquese have Monarchy! Yikes. They can beat me to HG. :(
Sell Babs contact to Iroquese for 35g and their TM.
Math it is, then. And I have 80g - can upgrade my 1st GS.

590BC - 2nd Forest chop goes to Galley in Camolodum and not to the Library. But it reveals BG - again! Galley launches.

570BC - Library. Start GLH - maybe as prebuild for HG.
Also - can use Gold now! Workers on Gold.
550BC - Learned CoL from Glib. Iroquese complete Oracle - I guess they'll start HG now.
530BC - Sell CoL to Babs for WM+4g.
510BC - galley sees land bridge to Vikings.
450BC - learn Math, trade for Phil from Vikings, but Iroquese won't give it to us for Monarchy.
270BC - Richborough on the Horse.
230BC - Finally learn Monarchy from GLib! Yess, one piece for GA is in place. We need Construction and Aqueduct now.
210BC - We are Monarchy.
170BC - learn Construction. Sell to Rome for 71g &Wm, and to others, for total of 120g. Can upgrade 1 more GS. Start Currency, hoping for AI to research Republic.

70BC - Hanging Gardens. Start Aqueduct.
90AD - Get Republic from Glib. Finish Aqueduct. Start Colosseum.
110AD - learn Currency, enter MA. Start Mono, sell Currency to Babs, they've got Feudalism.
Revolt to Republic.

We are at 150AD, shortly after AA:

550BC - Learned CoL from Glib. Iroquese complete Oracle - I guess they'll start HG now.

why didn't you try to get Oracle?

Predator Conquest Challenge

Another almost-AAC, in the end I had all the AA techs but no MA ones.

This has been a game of new experiences for me, as I did several things very differently from how I almost always play.

The first thing I did not do was to chop the game. It was forested all until the end, as I figured I had more use of the extra shield that the extra food with that cramped start.

Second thing I did not do was to build GS early, to avoid the despotic GA. I built archers, and by the end of the QSC I had 18 of them. Rome didn't put up much of a fight when I moved in in 750 BC, so in 510 BC we made peace, him being reduced to cinders.

Third thing I did not do was go for Republic. Instead I went for Monarchy, since I didn't want to wait too long to start using my GS. Thus my research path was straight for MM, then Myst, Poly and Monarchy. I was able to trade/extort BW, IW (and plenty more), and in 310 BC the Keltic Kingdom was born. Not once during the game did I regret that choice.

Fourth thing I did not do was to hang on to all the towns that I conquered. I was way behind most of the others in culture anyway, so not razing would have meant a lot of recapturing to do. I did hang on to most of Rome, and most of Scandinavia, the latter being blessed with a FP somewhat late in the game. The rest was mostly razed.

After my archers had brought Rome to heel, I shipped them (19) over to Egypt and let them have their way. Meanwhile I had started building GS, and shipped those over to Scandinavia. Cleo got the finger in 230 BC, and in 50 AD she was off her island having only a single town on the Roman continent, easy for me to tidy up later. Ragnar got his share of rudities in 290 BC, starting the GA, and since he had more land to spread over the war lasted all until 190 AD, when he was down to 2 towns near Babylon.

At this point Iroquois and Babylon had both entered the MA quite some time ago. :eek:
I got the missing AA techs from Ragnar, and found out that Hammu got Engineering, phew. Later Hiawatha would learn both Monotheism and Feudalism, but without iron he had no real use for it.

In 270 AD my GS hit Babylon, and he crumbled to pieces. In 410 AD I had him off the map completely, the first AI gone. The most important thing though was that I had signed in Hiawatha in this war, and that really helped me even though he didn't strike a single blow.

The point was, while I had been busy fighting, Hiawatha had built himself an empire. He had 5 towns of size 10+ and several more above 6, Pyramids, Gardens, and worst of all, the Great Wall. Plus he had all these pesky mounted warriors riding around everywhere. I figured my life would be much easier if they were somewhere else. So, I signed him into the Babylon war, and watched their troops crawl towards Babylon through the jungle. All the while my GS were speeding the other way, on my road that I used slaves to block from Iroquois access. Babylon was on the run anyway, so I could do with only a handful of GS tidying up.

In 460 AD I took out the Vikings completely, in 470 AD I redeclared on Rome, and finally in 490 AD I abused my ROP with Iroquois to take out Salamanca with the Great Wall, plus a few other major towns. From that point on it was downhill, although I did lose quite a few turns on getting to those towns that Hiawatha had on the islands. The one near the iron he simply wouldn't give me, so I had to manually invade the island. :mad:

In 580 AD I wiped out the last of Cleo, and in 620 AD I took out the last of the Iroquois for a Conquest win in 630 AD:

Game Status: Conquest Victory for Celts
Game Date: 630 AD
Firaxis: 4888
Jason: 9788
Time played: 18:19:46

Btw, were the spears supposed to cost 10 shields for the human player as well in predator? Not that I had any use of that, but...

why didn't you try to get Oracle?

You mean after Colossus? I counted that 400sh/6cpt is better than 300sh/4cpt and went for GLib consiously. Plus GLib is more useful in this game. Plus it was more safe - I could count on getting GLib but not on getting Oracle.

After GLib I didn't have Construction available yet so I went for the shortest Wonder build on the list before I could build Aqueduct. Maybe I started on Oracle - I don't remember, but Iroquese built it almost immediately after I was done with Library, so I was shooting for HG after that.

UPD. I see what you mean though: I could get Oracle first and still get GLib after that, holding on to Literature. I think I hoped to get something useful out of GLib soon, like Construction, ha-ha, and max out sooner. But of course on Regent it never happened.

When is the second spoiler?

What he said. Seems overdue by a week. :hmm:

The Island Start
I don't really know what I'm aiming for in this game, so I don't set myself any long term goals. I just have the medium term goal of getting off the island. To do that I want lots of commerce, and to get that I want lots of towns and lots of pop. So I plan for two towns sharing the game, each using a granary to get 4-turn growth. These towns will build settlers to ICS the island, and then workers to max out the population.

Ring Considerations
I settle in place, and the worker immediately goes to chop the game, while I build an archer for scouting duties. The archer heads out to confirm my small-island suspicions, followed by an early second worker who goes to chop another forest. Both loads of lumber go to build my granary, which is ready in time for growth to size 3. The first settler is ready in 2550bc, and my second town is founded in 2470bc at RCP2. This may sound extreme, but to have access to the game, I would need to do either RCP2 to the south-east or RCP3 to the south. The RCP3 spots would squelch a couple of beegees. Also, the island is broadly conducive to RCP4, and an RCP2 ring will fit inside the RCP4.

A Binary Settler System
... a bit like a binary star system, you see? Two towns alternating use of the same bonus food source and work-on-growth forest, tile allocations dancing around each other in perfect synchronisation. Well, the theory is great, but I didn't get it working quite that well. I wish I could have chopped another forest into the second town's granary, as lack of available 2-food tiles was actually a problem, but I didn't have any wonder builds with which to direct the lumber away from Entremont. Still, the capital kept pumping out 8-turn axe/settler combos, and the second town just muddled along as best it could.

Food or Commerce?
In practice I am promoting food rather than trade (I never work the gold, and I let towns grow to size 4, rather than just get to size 2 and then work two coastal tiles), but I am still using some pro-commerce tricks. The northernmost town is the most corrupt, so just does wealth, to help with the cost of two granaries. I don't build any temples to avoid having to pay for them, and I only have one town doing military (veteran archers). Between these and the axes coming from my capital, I keep two military police in each town and cap town size at 4.

The Fruits of my Labour
The result of all this careful planning is Mapping in 1250bc, and a galley puts to sea in the same turn. I meet the Romans in 1225bc. Caesar is not especially far ahead on tech, but he does know the Vikings. I don't want to sell Mapping yet, so I wait till Philosophy comes through, and sell it to him on the interturn of 1075bc. In his turn, he sells my contact on, and by the time 1075bc proper comes around, I know the Vikings and the Quois. So I get trading. By the end of the turn, I have learned Bronze, Ironwork, Wheel, Riding, Mysticism and Masonry. I have traded away Mapping and my world map, and have a fair portion of the other guys' maps in return.

The End of the Beginning
Now I can see that I already have a town built on iron, and there are horses on the mainland. I settle on the horses in 1175bc, and immediately start a harbour there. Rome is still expanding, so I send an archer to block the tundra peninsula, and follow it with a settler to build a canal town.
My galley sails on eastwards and meets the Babylonians just in time for the QSC. Ham is pretty backwards - he hasn't met anybody, because there is a 1-tile-wide no-man's land between the Viking and Babylonian territories :lol:.

QSC Stats
9 towns with 21 citizens and 77 tiles.
2 granaries, 1 barracks.
92 food in the bin, 221 shields in the box, 56g in the treasury.
1 settler, 2 workers, 1 slave, 6 axes (all reg), 5 archers (4 vet), 2 galleys.
All first tier techs, Ironwork, Writing, Mysticism, Philosophy, Mapping, Riding, 78 beakers of Maths.
4 contacts, 1 embassy, everyone's w maps.
QSC SCore: 2568.

This Emerald Isle
Entremont is settled in place and starts an archer as we research pottery at 90%. Worker moves south to chop the forest to help with the second archer, as I'll be cranking out units to check the lay of the land. The archer moves sse to gold mountain in 3600BC and we see that we're on a small island. Another patented isolated regent start. The chop rushes the second archer and Entremont starts a third, to be used as MP. Archer moves to southern point and sees land across the English Channel. We learn pottery in 3300BC as I plan three additional cities at ring 4.

We learn alpha at the start of the second millenium BC. Found Mohacs at 2n, ne in 2310BC, Lugdunum 3s in 1910BC, Camulodunum s, 2e, se in 1475BC. A Roman warrior appeared across the strait in 1750BC, but refused to trade with us. We learn writing in 1250BC and Rome still refuses to trade.

QSC STATS------------------
Score: Firaxis 108, Rome 144. QSC 1479
Land: 66 squares, 4 towns.
Population: 10 content.
Diplomacy: 1 contact.
Production: 64 food, 23 shields, 4 gold.
Buildings: rax, 3 grain, 2 temple
Units: 8 archers, 7 workers.
Experience: 6 regular, 2 vet.
Tech: alpha, pot, warcode, cb, writ.

Pointystix and Othertrix
We have been building up settlers and prepping for galleys, also using wealth to maintain solvency. We finally learn mapping in 650BC, but Rome also has it now and he still won't trade. Entremont starts the Lighthouse. Richborough is built across the strait in 590BC and Verulamium is built on what would turn out to be the Jutland peninsula in 550BC. Rome has 10 towns, but Pompeii and Pisae are weak and isolated. Time for a quick strike and gain some tech by force. A wonder cascade claims the Pyramids and Oracle in 510BC. I am distracted by dyes to the east, but they lead me to the Egyptians.

In 430BC Rome tries to extort from us and declares war. Bringus it on! We had prepared for war and I land 4 archers outside Pompeii, which is destroyed, having only a spear to defend. The Vikings and Iroquois hear of us, but we have nothing to trade them. Egypt rudely settles by our dyes, so we raze their city. Pisae is also razed, Augustodurum is built to claim the dyes. At this time we also contact Babylon.

Underfoot All This Time...
Agedincum is built to replace Pompeii. We suffer our first casualty outside Antium in 350BC, but we make treaty with Rome and get BW, masonry, wheel, mystic and philo. We are still behind the second-tier advances. There are horses outside Richborough. In 270BC we learn lit and trade it to Babylon for math, IW, TM+9. Trade it to Iroquois for HB+35. Trade Rome lit+38 for law. We now have tech parity. If only we'd taken Antium, we could've had iron!

Egypt sends a warrior, who is defeated next turn and we take Pi-Ramsses and Elephantine in tribute, along with 9+TM. I need to build the FP, but all my outer cities produce only 1 shield. But wait, I can build gallics! Lugdunum was sitting on iron the whole time. Eboracum is founded in 190BC. Entremont switches to Colossus, which finishes in 150BC. We learn poly in 90BC and trade Vikings lit, law, poly+18 for construct+TM. At the turn of the first millenium AD I send a ship west to explore and build Burdigala. Richborough and Lugdunum build harbors so we can build horsemen. We build Cataractonum in 170AD, and in 270 we learn monarchy, and trade it to Vikings for currency, WM+18, putting us in the Middle Ages. We also trade monarchy to Iroquois for mono+1. We immediately revolt.

Sudden Loss of Direction
I am pretty pleased with the QSC, but now things start going down hill. The trouble is that having acheived my medium term goal, I don't set a long term goal. What victory condition am I going for? If I am doing a science game, then I should follow Mapping with a beeline to Republic, revolt, and research to Literature. Take Rome on with a moderate force of gallics, while using the golden age to build up my first core and reinforce the invasion.
If I am going for a military victory, then I should direct all production to gallics, and all cash to upgrading my existing axes as fast as possible. Attack Rome with the upgraded units and suffer another despotic golden age. Rome would fall quickly if it had to face a force gallics before 500bc.

Wandering Aimlessly
So what do I actually do? A bit of both plans, and a bit of neither. I have researched Philosophy, which is on the road to Republic, but I follow up with full-steam research on Maths :hmm:. What could I possibly want that for? Next up is Currency, trade for Polytheism and Laws, and research Construction. This can only mean one thing: I am rushing to the Medieval. Sounds like I am playing a science game, but then why have I not gone for Republic? Very peculiar. My capital is still pumping settlers, and my other towns are putting up barracks and slowly building gallics.

Overseas Activities
All those settlers coming out of Entremont have a purpose; they are grabbing luxuries. There are several luxuries in coastal locations which no one has yet claimed, so I am sending out settlers to found on top of these resources and whip themselves a harbour. Settlements are also started on the tundra peninsula and the western coast of the Roman Channel. In 925bc, I finally discover the last civ, the rather primitive Egyptians. Cleo isn't really of any use to me, but she does manage to build herself a Pyramid in 570bc.

The Medieval Arrives
I am half way through Construction when in 510bc the Quois (who are looking pretty strong) get it. I still have techs up my sleeve, of course. I give Watha Polytheism and my world map for Construction, and enter the Medieval. No one else has Currency yet. If I was playing a science game, I would bring Babylon (who are not looking very strong) forwards and then research something they didn't get. But I still don't know where I am going, so I don't do that. I do realise that I need to move on Rome pretty soon, but I don't want a despotic golden age, so I finally start researching Republic. At first I do min research and use my cash to upgrade the old axes. When that job is done, I step up the research. Republic arrives in 10ad and I revolt on the interturn. It is long overdue, but I am finally ready to attack Rome :ninja:.

Ok, This is my first GOTM and I am finding that I am not as good a player as I thought. Without the discipline of the game rules I would have used a lot of do overs. Like the war with Rome that went badly, or when my brand new army lost to a Mideaval infantry, but I am toughing things out.

I don't like Island starts. I don't like playing nice with the AI's because they have a huge tech lead when I finally get off the island. When the Romans were nice enough to wave at me across the chanel I was way behind in tech. I did some trades and some bullying but never got caught up.

I managed to settle the north peninsula before the romans got a chance, and
had a minor scuffle with the egyptians over the snowy tip. filled in around the arid Roman cities below. When war came I took 3 cities and lost one back, then I stalled out because the roman med. Inf. started womping up on my BraveHearts.

Peace and a ROP gave me a chance to expand into the lower Roman pennisula that looks like Korea. When war came again I was ready and cleared the lower pennisula of Romans. War on the north end of the roman contient moved slower as that is where the concentrated their best troopies, and two cities were lost over near the Swedes on the swampy part of the island to the west. I just didn't have enough time/boats to get them fully reinforced.

I am finally having a nice war and fully enjoying myself. If I had it to do over again I would have built less temples and gone after rome more aggressively.