Ater our bitter defeat in VQ02, and the AI dogpile we were the victim of in VQ03, it is time for a little sweet revenge! We will be taking on all of those whom decalred war on us in these games.

We are once again Roman - ala VQ02. Our opponents are:

Egypt - Hatsheput
Mali - Mansa Musa
America - Washington
Japan - Tokagowa
England - Victoria
America - Roosevelt


As you can see, America is in there twice. We were attacked by Washington early in VQ02, and Roosevelt has been piling on in VQ03. They must both be taken out!

Speaking of taken out... there is only one win condition, conquest. As a revenge game, there can be no other option.

The usual suspects: (roster)

player 1: Maquis
player 2: eektor
player 3: bobrath
player 4: GreyFox
player 5: oldbustedjorn
alternate: sozopol (if OBJ is still out of the loop)

I'll start with 30, and we'll all play 20 the first round. Normal 10 turns thereafter.

Can't wait for this one to start! Glad you changed the icon too. Now we have no excuses though.

I still think the Chili had nothing to do with our losses. I place the blame solely on Firaxis for making the game!

Fox reporting for revenge mission ...

I think sozopol should be given a chance to particpat as full member in the roster, 6 or 5 players doesn't make too big a difference.

Two Americans??? :lol:, I wonder how the color coding would be assigned ... :crazyeye:

I presume its Prince, Pangea?
-

Yes, it is Prince, Pangea. And here's our start...

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6383/vq04start2dh.jpg

Nice start! Looks like we have wine, cows, and ivory in the fat cross, along with lotsa floodplains. Good for the :whipped:

I played the first 30 turns. Tech went BW (copper is off to our east a ways) and then wheel and agriculture. We are now researching AH.

Built a warrior and worker. Worker chopped a forest on the hill, to rush a settler. I want to get to the eastern copper ASAP.

We've met Vicky, Hatty, Toka, Washington, and Roosevelt already. Note: Roosevelt is pinkish in color. Well, that explains a lot, I always thought there was something... "different" about him. Oh well, he's going to be wiped out just like the rest of 'em.

Here's the map so far. You can see Vicky to the SW, Hatty to the W, Toka N, Roosevelt NE, and Washington to the E.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3606/map5kk.jpg

Here's the save. Eektor's up. Remember, everyone plays 20.

Just for the fun of it (its too early, I know):

Dot-map:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-dotmap-1.jpg

- Blue: next city, ASAP. Grab copper.
can move 1 tile north to grab one more wine and also convert one desert tile to useful city tile, but need one expansion to connect copper
can also move 1 tile south to be on hill, but totally loses the wines (save them for future expansion?)

- green dot: just for sones at the moment.

- grey dot: gems. might be good for early economy boost

- cyan dot: excellent site with gold, pig, and rice.

- yellow dot: another excellent site, with cow, gold and silk

- red dot: just a space filler with a gold.

Disclaimer: Above is just to get discusions going, hastily drawn.

I agree that blue dot should be first. Washington is directly east, and we want to grab the copper before he does.

After AH comes in, we should look at going for IW next. I thikn the earlier we get our UU up the better!

Early war might be best in this game... even though it seemed to bite us in the other VQ's. I think that we need to WIPE out a civ early, then sit back and grow for a bit...

Grey dot... why not go NW one tile? That would resolve some of the conflicting borders and get you on the sea...

luker's comment:

Well good luck guys! Hopefully this will go better than the last two VQ games!

My personal opinion is that in the last two games you were a bit too trigger-happy. That is, you sometimes declared war without a proper build-up, and then even moderately successful wars took too long and drained your resources and weakened you so that others could attack you.

Remember Sun Tzu - "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

lurker says: I'd move blue dot (copper town) one to the W. Founding on the hill = big production bonus over time, and you can save the wine for a future development. Also, it makes it one hell of an early wonder city, what with the extra hammer from the hill, 3 extra forests and the copper mine!

Just a lurker opinion. Will watch this one with interest :).

Uh, oops. Make that one less forest. Guess that's why I'm only a lurker :)

My personal opinion is that in the last two games you were a bit too trigger-happy. That is, you sometimes declared war without a proper build-up, and then even moderately successful wars took too long and drained your resources and weakened you so that others could attack you.
Agree, agree. Ok, in VQ04, we will amass 10,000 praets before declaring war :D:lol:

I'd move blue dot (copper town) one to the W.
The problem with miving west, be it NW, directly west, or SW, is, it takes the city one cultural expansion to grab the copper. But, we want copper fast!

Grey dot... why not go NW one tile? That would resolve some of the conflicting borders and get you on the sea...
You are absolutely right! I drew grey dot first and red-dot as an after thought. However, being a conquest game, I would not worry too much about overlapping. How many size 21 cities would we have without first having H&H (heatlth and happiness) issues? Also, the greydot was placed on a jungle (1 less jungle to worry about).

But I agree on the sea (or was it lake?) part.

-

The problem with miving west, be it NW, directly west, or SW, is, it takes the city one cultural expansion to grab the copper. But, we want copper fast!

I did think about that. I guess I'd just be loathe to waste the tiles in between. Then again, I often play with creative leaders, so the border pop is less of an issue than for JC.

Oops, I didn't realize I was up. I spent most of yesterday trying to finish my gotm game before the month is up. Sorry about that. Got it and I'll play tonight.

I'm thinking after settling on the blue dot, the cyan dot would be nice. If we work the gold right away it should even pay for the city maintenance of that city. If we don't get it in time then I guess yellow dot would be fine.

After AH, I'll be researching IW. Hopefully we would have iron beside us.

Again, I agree to grab Blue Dot for the copper. Let's then try to get another worker/settler going for when IW comes in. We can't mis out if there's iron to be had...

One little update to the roster, everyone is in, no alternates. Everyone deserves a piece of the revenge pie!

player 1: Maquis -- Just played
player 2: eektor -- UP
player 3: bobrath -- on deck
player 4: GreyFox --
player 5: sozopol --
player 6: oldbustedjorn (last, since he asked for a little more time before jumping in)

Preturn: 2800 BC
Goals: Settle by the copper and research IW.
I noticed nobody was guarding the capital and there was a warrior up north. Decided to use the warrior to escort the settler and after the settler was done build some warriors.

Turn 2: 2720 BC
Warrior defeated panther and found a new source of copper. The other copper site looked better for the short run so I decided to keep with the plan of settling on the blue dot.

121312
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Turn 4: 2640 BC
Rome finished the settler and started building a warrior.

Turn 9: 2440 BC
Rome finished Warrior and is building another warrior.

Turn 10: 2400 BC
Antium founded and is building a warrior. (If you were wondering why it took a while to found the city from when I built the settler, its because our brave settler and warrior had to run away from these giant bears that kept following them.)

Turn 12: 2320 BC
Rome finished Warrior and is building a worker.

Turn 18: 2080 BC
Antium built Warrior and is building barracks.

Turn 19: 2040 BC
Rome built worker and is building Settler.
Cows connected.

Turn 20: 2000 BC
8 turns til Settler is finished
6 turns til IW is researched

After turn comments:

I suggest we research Pottery next so we can put cottages over all the flood plains. If we don’t have iron, that’s where we should send the next settler. Otherwise we could try to get the other copper spot or get a city next to a gold site. Oh if you want the settler faster you can chop another forest. I only did one forest chop because with all the flood plains, I wanted the 2 extra health from the 4 forest left. Although we could always chop it up when building our army of praets.

BTW Victoria volunteered to be our first target. How thoughtful of her. After her messing me up in gotm 3 and in VQ-02, this would be sweet revenge.

121315

Our Roman empire

121314

More pictures

Resources and culture

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121317

and the turn log

Turn 30 (2800 BC)

Turn 31 (2760 BC)
Warrior defeats (2.00/2): Barbarian Panther

Turn 32 (2720 BC)

Turn 33 (2680 BC)
Rome finishes: Settler

Turn 34 (2640 BC)
Rome begins: Warrior

Turn 35 (2600 BC)

Turn 36 (2560 BC)

Turn 37 (2520 BC)
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry

Turn 38 (2480 BC)
Research begun: Iron Working
Rome finishes: Warrior

Turn 39 (2440 BC)
Rome begins: Warrior
Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 40 (2400 BC)
Antium founded
Antium begins: Warrior

Turn 41 (2360 BC)
Rome grows: 4
Rome finishes: Warrior

Turn 42 (2320 BC)
Rome begins: Worker

Turn 43 (2280 BC)

Turn 44 (2240 BC)

Turn 45 (2200 BC)

Turn 46 (2160 BC)

Turn 47 (2120 BC)
Antium finishes: Warrior

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
Antium begins: Barracks
Rome finishes: Worker

Turn 49 (2040 BC)
Rome begins: Settler

Turn 50 (2000 BC)



and here's the save

Man... Vicky settled right next to where I wanted our third city to go. I think we might still be able to settle (yellow dot). Of course a second source of copper makes for a nice option to the NE of our capital.

Have to check it out!

(got it)

(slow night so I went ahead and played).

The bad news - just about everyone will have iron it seems. Worst of all Vicky has two source. (sorry I didn't get anyone to declare war on us!)
The Good news - to get the two sources of iron, Vicky prolly ticked off Hatty something fierce.
The Better news - green dot (adjusted) is going to make an amazing 3rd city for us. Crabs and Iron in the big square.

The scores at end of my turn. We moved up quite a bit, not sure exactly why - perhaps we have a bit more room to grow (or I was agressive in the right way on techs).
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/8963/leaders1hp.jpg

I went on a different research path (only just now researching Pottery):
Hunting >> Archery >> Mysticism >> Masonry >> Pottery (due in 3).
I went Huting so we could hook up Ivory for the production bonus, then Archery so we could have some defense in case anyone got uppity. Mysticism since our non-capital cities could not expand without culture. Then I saw that Rome could build Stonehenge in just 12 turns and decided to make a run, but having the stone hooked up (via Masonry) would make an even better chance.

Rome is 7 turns out from Stonehenge, our two workers are 3 turns away from completing the quarry - so I figure we're about 5 turns away. Worse case we can bump our research back up to 100% with the gain if someone beats us to it. (10 hammers per turn)
Antium has produced one Axeman (currently keeping an eye on Vicky from our gold) and an Archer (defending Antium). Another Archer will be done in 3 and can go to defend Rome or Cumae. (7 hpt)
Cumae is working hard on a work boat (still 21 turns out) so it can hook up crabs. Iron is just outside its borders, so Stonehenge... will be kinda important - if we miss it then get an oblisk going here. (1 hpt) BTW here's Cumae at founding:
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/9646/civ4screenshot00010pf.jpg

Vicky has hooked up her horses for sure, so we may want to bring along Spearmen if we go after her first.

Standard Demographics info:
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/8901/civ4screenshot00061zv.jpg

The resource chart is too big to fit on one screen, but as I said almost everyone has iron... Here's our west because its the most interesting (and we're starting to get crowded over there!
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/7904/civ4screenshot00074tw.jpg

From the cultural view, you can see Vicky cornering Hatty (and where our other borders are going to be pushed):
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/174/civ4screenshot00100dr.jpg

I've marked with an in game sign my suggestion for our fourth city. Its up to the NE by the lake (on that injutting corner of the lake). Bit of overlap with Antium, but it will pull in the copper with its first border pop and with a bit of encouragement can seal our eastern border. Might be hard with Pinky showin a cultural push there tho.

Yay olde timey turnlog:
Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Rome's borders expand
Antium grows: 2

Turn 51 (1960 BC)

Turn 52 (1920 BC)

Turn 53 (1880 BC)

Turn 54 (1840 BC)
Tech learned: Iron Working

Turn 55 (1800 BC)
Research begun: Hunting
User comment: Hunting so we can get the Elephants and archers!

Turn 56 (1760 BC)
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 57 (1720 BC)
User comment: Judaism FIDAL
Tech learned: Hunting
Rome finishes: Settler

Turn 58 (1680 BC)
Research begun: Archery
User comment: Archery next (defenders!)

Turn 59 (1640 BC)

Turn 60 (1600 BC)
Antium finishes: Barracks

Turn 61 (1560 BC)
Antium begins: Axeman
Cumae founded
Cumae begins: Work Boat
Tech learned: Archery

Turn 62 (1520 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism
User comment: Mysticism next - have to have oblisks for the culture pop

Turn 63 (1480 BC)

Turn 64 (1440 BC)
Tech learned: Mysticism
Rome grows: 5
Rome finishes: Barracks

Turn 65 (1400 BC)
Research begun: Masonry
Rome begins: Stonehenge
User comment: Gonna try to run for Stonehenge (only 12 turns).
User comment: Researching Masonry so we can hook up stone
Antium finishes: Axeman

Turn 66 (1360 BC)
Antium begins: Archer

Turn 67 (1320 BC)
Tech learned: Masonry

Turn 68 (1280 BC)
Research begun: Pottery
Antium finishes: Archer

Turn 69 (1240 BC)
Antium begins: Archer

Turn 70 (1200 BC)


Suggestions for next player:
I didn't want to chop to rush stonehenge since we got a late start, but you can. Thing is you'll have to take a worker off the quarry and by the time they got to a forest... prolly too late!
If Stonehenge fails, we prolly have to build obolisks cause religion ain't coming for a while. I think George got Judaism. We need Cumae and Antium to border pop to get us Iron (and lesser Pigs). Oh! There are a few turns on a farm in the tile one north of Cumae. Worker killed time there waiting for masonry to complete. Suggest after they finish the quarry, move one east and finish the farm to get Cumae popping
I'd suggest roading to the other AI borders. Gives us trade routes for resources and eventually roads for our armies to take.

and the save:

Got it, will play later in the evening.

Pretty nice turns, bob. The jump in score is most likely due to the 3rd city (a founding a city cost scor eto jump) and also the research of techs.

Damned, vicky, grabbed our horses! She will pay for her crimes in vq02, vq03, and here!

I would moved the workers up the road to the forest next to the cows if I wanted a chop. I agree on the importance of stonehedge ... will slow us somewhat if we lose it.

Your suggested city location sounds okay to me.

-

An Apology First

First off, an apology ... went overboard and played 1 turn more .... :spank: :wallbash: :crazyeye:


From The Wonder Department

I MM'ed Rome initially to get stonehedge 1 turn earlier,
and then when the quarry was done, look at this:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-quarry.jpg

Stonehedge immediately falls to 2 turns. No chop necessary. :D

And you know what that means, right? Right? RIGHT??

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-stonehedge.jpg


Overwhelmed with the success of stonehedge, I pursued Pyramids next ... :eek: ...
... and sure enough, as they say, determination is the key to success,
with one chop, we get both stone-age wonder:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-pyramids.jpg

The timing was just excellent,
the iron was hooked just when the triangular pile of stones was built,
... and you should know what Rome started building ... right? Right? RIGHT??

Turn 90 (625 BC)
Rome begins: Oracle

:eek: ...

... opps, sorry, wrong game :crazyeye: :lol:
I am not that crazy ;)

Turn 90 (625 BC)
Rome begins: Praetorian


-- To Be Continued --

From The Research Department

IBT 1120 BC: Pottery was in ...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-pottery.jpg

IBT 875 BC: Writing was next ...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-writing.jpg

and we are researching Mathematics ...
you know what that means, right? Right? RIGHT??


And now, From The Unhappy News Department

Well, as a VQ SG in Prince, things don't go that smoothly for us.

Firstly, there goes bobrath's 2nd city site ...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-damned-jap.jpg

Then, I was eyeing for greydot when we finally built our 3rd settler ...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-damned-jap2.jpg

:aargh: Damn the Japs [pissed] !!!


From Foreign Affairs Department

A few of the "enemies" approached us for open borders, including both Americans, Hatty, and Mansa. Rejected all except Mansa, since we don't even know where he is. On hindsight, that was probably a :smoke:. Should have OB with one of the civ with religion, so that we can acquired religion. What the hell, what is done is done. Next player may wish to correct that, since we have writing.


From the I-Love-Screenshots Department

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-cultural.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-resources.jpg


From the I-Love-Statistics-Too Department

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-power.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-info.jpg
- one wonders why Washington (and which American's washington is that!! :crazyeye:) beats our two-wonders-city. Likely due to a shrine.


After-Turns Notes

- Power-wise, we are not doing very good ... but that will be remedied once all 3 cities start producing praets (chop, chop, chop!). I do have a spearman built though, currently exporing the north of Rome for a suitable site for our settler.

- Speaking about sites, its not looking good. (EDIT2: Probably my fault for going after the Pyramids instead of settler). Next city should definitely be up north to halt the japanese. We could squeeze in one more city towards the SW of Rome, but if we are going to hit Vicky first, we might as well wait to capture the cities. If determined, I suspect the 2nd player in line may be able to declare on Vicky early in his turnsets, if the next player starts producing ample praets. Don't forget to mix an archer or two in it to secure captured cities.

- Again, sorry for going overboard with the One.More.Turn ...

EDIT: autolog --

Turn 70 (1200 BC)
GreyFox: MM'ed Rome to get stonhedge 1 turn earlier

Turn 71 (1160 BC)
Cumae grows: 2

Turn 72 (1120 BC)
GreyFox: stone connected, stonehedge become 2 turns, no need to chop, just cross finger and pray ...
Tech learned: Pottery
Antium finishes: Archer

Turn 73 (1080 BC)
Research begun: Writing
Antium begins: Granary
Rome finishes: Stonehenge

Turn 74 (1040 BC)
Rome begins: The Pyramids
Antium grows: 3

Turn 75 (1000 BC)
GreyFox: Antium grows, but immediately starved, I have no choice but to whip the granary.
Antium finishes: Granary

Turn 76 (975 BC)
Antium begins: Archer

Turn 77 (950 BC)
Cumae finishes: Work Boat
Archer defeats (2.67/3): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 78 (925 BC)
Cumae begins: Settler
Antium finishes: Archer

Turn 79 (900 BC)
Antium begins: Spearman

Turn 80 (875 BC)
GreyFox: Mansa asked for OB, agree for now
Tech learned: Writing

Turn 81 (850 BC)
Research begun: Mathematics

Turn 82 (825 BC)
GreyFox: Washington asked for OB, denied.
Rome grows: 6
Antium's borders expand
Cumae's borders expand

Turn 83 (800 BC)
GreyFox: Hatty asked for OB, denied.
Antium finishes: Spearman

Turn 84 (775 BC)
GreyFox: Roosy asked for OB, denied.
Antium begins: Spearman

Turn 85 (750 BC)

Turn 86 (725 BC)

Turn 87 (700 BC)

Turn 88 (675 BC)
Antium grows: 3

Turn 89 (650 BC)
Rome finishes: The Pyramids
Cumae finishes: Settler

Turn 90 (625 BC)
Rome begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Granary
Antium grows: 4

Turn 91 (600 BC)


Roster
player 1: Maquis --
player 2: eektor --
player 3: bobrath --
player 4: GreyFox -- Just Played
player 5: sozopol -- UP
player 6: oldbustedjorn -- ready to jump in?

Someone better PM sozopol (ok, I will), he has not post anything on this thread so not sure if he want his revenge or not.


The save:

@bobrath: Great call on the techs. I was thinking the same thing about hunting -> Archery. Good call on the mysticism! We need to get culture going to get borders popping.

Great to see that this VQ game is living up to the reputation! First 4 turnsets done in 3 days! :worship:


Looks like we're getting pinched in - in a hurry. Needless to say, I think we need to be cautious on our early war(s). I think that was our mistake in VQ03 - too many little skirmishes, and that set us back. I say we need to get a little more buildup this time. I think it is critical we don't do too little in a war, especially with Vicky. We all know how spiteful she is! We will hurt her, and we hurt her BAD! Either wipe her out, or leave her with one crappy city.

If anything, let's show that these last two losses have taught us all to be better warmongers!

Hi folks- I'm getting squeezed with work and family stuff, so I'm thinking that, rather than slow you guys down maybe I should sit this one out. Thanks for including me and I will still definitely lurk... and I'm looking forward to VQ05.

PS-Give Toku an extra kick in the ass for me, that vicious worm! Bashi-bazouk! Ectoplasm!

Ok, sozopol. I will give Toku that (it was your turnset when he declared in VQ03, wasn't it?)... he is starting to piss me off here as well by grabbing all our sites.

-

So, is oldbustedjorn ready or is it back to maquis?

-

Ok, just an update to the roster:


Roster
player 1: Maquis -- on deck (possibly UP?)
player 2: eektor --
player 3: bobrath --
player 4: GreyFox -- Just Played
player 5: oldbustedjorn -- ready to jump in?

I can play any day (well, evening) so I'll wait for OBJ to chime in what works for him... I can do a swap, or a skip...

Which civic did you pick from the pyramids?

Which civic did you pick from the pyramids?

Normally, I would automatically choose representation this early in the game... but we should look seriously at police state for war times, even for buildup (+25% military production) Get those praets out FAST! I assume we get the 25% bonus added to chops as well?? :evil:

Which civic did you pick from the pyramids?
:blush: I always forget to pick one after building the pyramids .... another :wallbash: :spank: :crazyeye: ...

But I agree on State property. Maybe representation if we are running into happiness problem (not war weariness).

Lets not forget with Cumae we can do some exploring of the water. A work boat can still explore for us (at least until we get sailing). Never know what might open up to us for expansion across the water.

Vicky pretty much has to go to war with the expansive (and religion having) Hatty. She's got the most power, but lowest score. I hate the idea of aligning with Hatty, but we could pick up some good relationship points if we let her pull us into a war with Vikcy (or worse case vice versa). Remember tho that her expansive trait means she'll win cultural border wars (Nottingham is already under pressure). We might consider aligning with Vicky to pull down the higher scoring Hatty - esp since Vicky has the power to do it. Dunno on that tho.

Alternativly Tokugowa will have no allies, so he might be a better choice for first targets. He'll have War Elephants, but I saw no evidence of iron in his borders. It won't be as satisfying, but sometimes you have to do things you don't like.

We're going to get religious pressure from both sides (Hatty and Washington), esp once Roosevelt and or Vicky get religion. We need to be aligned with one of those blocks - don't get our own religion! VQ04 is a great example of religion just pushing us all over the map. Get in a religious block for the early and midgame (then of course later take our brethern of the faith to meet their maker!).

IMO, lets get a truly massive (AI sized) SoD or two and then decide who we want to take down. We've got Praets so lets put them in effect. If an AI asks us to help them... do it unless we're on the wrong religious block. and getting a religion is going to be huge so lets see if we can encourage a religion to spread. BTW, OB doesn't really hurt us anymore as there aren't many places for a settler to put down roots. I'd suggest we found a city NW of Rome unless you want to hold out hope for something across the water from Cumae.

I always forget to pick one after building the pyramids ....

Ok, I'm going to roll a d6... and the RNG gods say you have to disconnect 3 :) resources. Oh wait...wrong SG... :lol:

OK, I'm going to post a "got it". Hopefully oldbustedjorn doesn't mind.

I'm going to go heavy into praet construction, and I may look to push out a settler also. I'll play the last round of 20.

OK, I'm going to post a "got it". Hopefully oldbustedjorn doesn't mind.

I'm going to go heavy into praet construction, and I may look to push out a settler also. I'll play the last round of 20.

Make that 19. since I stole one turn :D

Well I focused a lot on war buildup. Hopefully we'll be ready soon. I still don't know who our target should be...

Turn 0: OK, most things look good. I do revolt to police state.

Roosevelt, just where do you think you're going??

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6746/roosevelt7jn.jpg

I think he's probably headed out to the junk penninsula to our SE... oh well, should be easy pickings later!

Turn 2: Huh? what was he thinking? The AI is really stupid sometimes... I suppose he wanted our copper... but he'll never get it!

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5592/la7iv.jpg


Turn 4: Neopolis founded north of Rome. It's not the best city site, but can work the gold, and has at least one floodplain. At this point we are about out of room! I guess we'll have to :hammer: ourselves some new cities!

Most of the rest of the turns were building Praets and other military. We're getting a decent stack, but I think this game we want to have a little overkill on the offensive side.



Turn 91 (600 BC)

Turn 92 (575 BC)

Turn 93 (550 BC)
Rome finishes: Praetorian

Turn 94 (525 BC)
Neapolis founded
Rome begins: Praetorian
Neapolis begins: Archer
Antium grows: 5
Antium finishes: Spearman
Cumae grows: 2
Cumae finishes: Granary

Turn 95 (500 BC)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Archer
Neapolis begins: Granary

Turn 96 (475 BC)
Rome finishes: Praetorian
Antium grows: 6
Cumae finishes: Archer

Turn 97 (450 BC)
Rome begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Work Boat
Tech learned: Mathematics

Turn 98 (425 BC)
Warrior defeats (2.00/2): Barbarian Warrior
Tribal village results: experience
Research begun: Construction
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 99 (400 BC)
Antium begins: Archer
Rome finishes: Praetorian

Turn 100 (375 BC)
Rome begins: Archer
Cumae grows: 3

Turn 101 (350 BC)
Rome's borders expand
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Archer
Cumae finishes: Work Boat
Neapolis grows: 2

Turn 102 (325 BC)
Rome begins: Worker
Antium begins: Library
Cumae begins: Barracks

Turn 103 (300 BC)
Neapolis's borders expand

Turn 104 (275 BC)

Turn 105 (250 BC)
Rome finishes: Worker
Cumae grows: 4

Turn 106 (225 BC)
Rome begins: Praetorian
Moses (Great Prophet) born in Rome

Turn 107 (200 BC)

Turn 108 (175 BC)
Rome finishes: Praetorian

Turn 109 (150 BC)
Rome begins: Archer
Cumae finishes: Barracks
Neapolis grows: 3

Turn 110 (125 BC)




I don't really know who our first target should be. Vicky seems to be well liked, everyone but Toka is pleased with her:

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/4422/vicky8vm.jpg


Not sure if the next person up will be ready to take on someone, I know I was starting to get a trigger finger... but I held off...


Here's the save:

Got it. I'll play tonight.

The reason why I think we should get Vicky is their are horses near us and she has a city close to it ... and she's the one I don't like the most. :lol: Any other ideas on who we could benefit more by going to war with first?

Edit: Oh who has a religion and a shrine? That could help us a lot.

I still think Vicky is our best choice, since she is so close... (and, ok, after what she did to us in VQ02! :mad:) Another thing I should have pointed out, she is up there in power (although we are the most powerful) So we have to watch our back.

I do think we need to attack soon, before longbows start showing up... that may not be long.


Edit: Oh who has a religion and a shrine? That could help us a lot.

Well, Vicky founded confusinism... she my not have the shrine yet, but we do have a Prophet... (Sorry, forgot to point that out) he's sleeping in Rome...

Attack, attack, go go go, eektor!! :hammer: :hammer: Attack everyone!!

Ok, ignore me, its my warmonger personality yelling ...

Looking at the turn log, we have like 5 praets, 2 spears built? I say build one or two more praets and its time to start hammering. Vicky gets my vote. Since she has the holy city, and is close to us, and she must answer for her crimes in VQ02 and VQ03.

How many turns to construction?

-

Remember, Hatty is the next over from Vicky and with her creative trait will be putting more pressure on our newly aquired cities right away.

Add that to a possible religious conflict and we're looking to have to go to war with Hatty soon after Vicky. Are we ready for that?

I guess the reason I'm pushing for Tokugowa is that we can stop the war with him and not be forced into another war right away (imo). He does have horses too (nw of our capital).

Now with Roosevelt settling in so close, we have two civs that will dislike us for border pressure reasons (thanks FDR).

I'm still suprised we don't have a religion spread to us yet. Did we not open borders to one of the relgious civs? Religion will make a dent in the coming war weariness (and will allow Theocracy to make our units better).


and comeone Maquis, no world map? I saw that you built a work boat, so what did you find to the south and where's the pic of our fourth city location????? I'm ever so starved!

Sorry about the no pic on what's to our south... there's a lot of tundra, with maybe some room for a fishing village or two, but they would be junk... I wasn't sure we want to be building "junk" cities in this game... we have plenty of cities ripe for the taking :)

If I get a chance I will open the save and show what is to the south...

bobrath has a point on attacking Toku first. He seems to be the only one expanding peacefully without close borders tension, so once we assimilated his cities under the VQers flags, we will be able to do a post-war rebuild of our economy pretty fast.

However, vicky cannot be left alone for long ... the problem with the English is you must attack them fairly early, they get more and more powerful as time goes by.

What we could do is to take out toku first, effectively cutting the pangea into two, with us in the center. Then we can take out the western civs (vicky and Hatty), and then deal with the eastern civs (both Americans). I'm still unsure where Mansa is.

In this case, we may want to cultivate an amicable relationship with the americans first, to keep our eastern front peaceful while we set our eyes up north and then westward.

Someone also mentioned joining forces with vicky to take out Hatty. But apparently, Vicky and Hatty are quite firendly (at least Hatty is pleased with Vicky).

Roosy can't possibly steal our copper. He is more likelly eyeing for the sheep and the wine. Plus, he cut us off that small southern penisula where the sheep is.

-

Ouch! Sorry guys, I wasn't ready for war and Vicky attacked and I lost! ... Oh wait wrong game. :D Well, I was able to avenge Vicky for what she did to us in VQ02 and also for gotm3 for me. :cool: Here's my turnset:

Preturn: 125 BC

Everything is looking good for war. I'm going to wait a turn or two. I'll make sure to bring the warrior with the medic promotion to be in my main stack. Also, I'll keep the Great Prophet to use to get the shrine for Confucianism.

Turn 2: 75 BC

Declared war on Vicky! :hammer: :hammer:

Turn 3: 50 BC

Nottingham captured.
:spank: Do you like that, Vicky? Well there's plenty more of that coming. You're not getting off that easily.

Turn 5 - 8: 1 AD - 75 AD
Boring war stuff. The cities are producing praets, archers, spearmen, and axeman. Mostly praets.

Turn 9: 100 AD
York captured and its the Confucious holy city too.
Alright Vicky, I'll stop the :hammer: for now, only so I can let the others get their chance with you!

Turn 10: 125 AD

Ouch I lost my city defense 2 archer to a chariot. What bad luck. Don't worry I clean up the units that Vicky brought in our area.

Afterturn comments:

I really don't know how much cities Vicky has left. I know there's at least one, maybe 2. I was bringing the great prophet to York to build the shrine. We might want to spread Confucious a bit so we could get more shrine income and help the economy a bit. The next person should be ready to advance to the next city with the main stack within 2 turns or so.

Here's the autolog:

Turn 110 (125 BC)
Cumae begins: Praetorian
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Library
Cumae grows: 5

Turn 111 (100 BC)
Rome begins: Archer
Antium begins: Praetorian
Rome finishes: Archer
Neapolis finishes: Granary

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Rome begins: Spearman

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Praetorian defeats (6.72/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (3.92/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (3.92/8): English Spearman
Buddhism has spread: Nottingham
Captured Nottingham (Victoria)
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Cumae finishes: Praetorian

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Praetorian
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Rome finishes: Spearman

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Rome begins: Library
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Cumae grows: 6

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Neapolis finishes: Archer

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Neapolis begins: Archer
Nottingham begins: Barracks
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): Barbarian Archer
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
Praetorian defeats (6.64/8): English Axeman

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Cumae begins: Axeman
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Archer defeats (2.46/3): English Axeman

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Archer promoted: City Garrison II
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (5.28/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Spearman
Confucianism has spread: York
Captured York (Victoria)
Neapolis begins: Barracks
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Worker loses to: English Chariot (4.00/4)
Spearman defeats (3.44/4): English Chariot
Archer loses to: English Chariot (0.16/4)

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Antium begins: Archer
Praetorian defeats (2.40/8): English Spearman
Praetorian defeats (5.28/8): English Chariot
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Chariot


Here's some screenshots:
121606
121607
121608

:eek: ... there goes bob's grand plan of attacking toku first! :lol:

Okay, now that we are committed, let's wipe vicky off the face of the earth once and for all.

:goodjob: eektor! Capturing two cities. Next player may want to whip the barracks out of the ex-english cities (just for the spite of it :o).

Judging from Vicky's score before the war, the names of cities, and the 3-expansion cultural border from the cultral view screenshot, I'll say Vicky ha sonly one city remaining -- London. Suggest moving fast and take London out.

-

Now that we have committed in one direction, I would suggest taking Hatty out next. Do it while we can. and worry abt economy later. Maybe not completely, but we must, else the sheer cultural pressure of her cities would gives us lots of headache.

I think we need one more worker to hasten the post-war rebuilding ... the capitol of England should provide us with some though.

Great going guys, keep the rage on!!! :hammer: :hammer:

-

EDIT:

Worker loses to: English Chariot (4.00/4)

:eek: ... how did this happen? ... ah, nevermind, we would rescue him soon enough ...

Hmm I didn't even see that, losing the worker. I guess I was:smoke: a little.

As for the Toku, I saw bob's post, I didn't see your last one, and I thought most of us agreed on Vicky. Besides when I got the save our SoD was right on the border of Nottingham, so I just decided to go ahead with the English.

Edit: I captured 2 workers. Lost 1, so we got 1 more worker than before.

Besides when I got the save our SoD was right on the border of Nottingham,

Of course, that was my doing :wavey: I guess my subliminal message worked. :lol:

I concur with GreyFox, by looking at the culture map. Vicky only has London left. Let's take it out! We shall be AVENGED!!


Roster
player 1: Maquis --
player 2: eektor -- Put the :hammer: down
player 3: bobrath -- Up!
player 4: GreyFox -- on deck
player 5: oldbustedjorn --

Hmm ... the autolog does not report capturing of workers ....

Its okay to start off with vicky ... I was undecided anyway. Its either taking out Vicky + Hatty, or taking out Toku. The latter might be easier, but the former might serve us better in the long run eliminating the score leader first.

-

There was 1 worker in each city when I captured them. I guess it didn't show in the autolog.

@Maquis - well now you know all you have to do is put some subliminal message in your turnset for me and I'll do what you want.

*cheers from the bleacher seats*

:clap: :banana: :woohoo: :cheers:

And remember: keep a healthy stash of units in those cities bordering Japan... :mad:

Got it.... Now to figure out what to do with you war mongers!

and in true form... here's my turnset (before any of you can tell me what to do!!!)

At one point, Proposed we trade nothing for peace.... pfft. Instead I took London. I took a large number of screen shots of the preparation: Here's a nice compilation I call "OverKILL":
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4963/civ4screenshot00037vg.jpg
Well we didn't lose a single unit (love our praets) here's the combat:
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Swordsman
Praetorian defeats (4.16/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.64/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Spearman

Yeah... pretty easy and we got a settler >> worker out of the deal. 3 turns more and London will convert.

As soon as York flipped, I built the Kong Miao. I have not converted to a religion for a few reasons:
1) We have no civics to take advantage of it
2) Connverint to our own religion will only give us negative relationship points
3) Hatty is happily sending missionaries into our towns to convert them to buddhism.

As of the end of my turn we have 3 Buddhist cities and 3 Confused cities. I'd suggest converting to Buddhism, if only to make Hatty happy (along with Mansa Musa). I'd still spread both religions throughout the lands to help with unhappy war hating citizens.

BTW, three of our cities were on Avoid Growth... BAD FORM. At least mention it in your save. Lost a good chunk of turns on Rome as it had an extra happy slot available. All three cities are now building Colloseums (and should be whipped asap). The :whipped: will reduce the happy (if you take 2 pop points for it) AND gets us the +2 happy coloseum faster.
User comment: Whip the Colosseum in Rome now
User comment: When Antium finishes Colosseum, take off Avoid Growth
User comment: As soon as you can whip Cumae - do so to reduce unhappy


Currently researching Metal Casting for the Forges (and to lead to Machinery). Due in 5 turns (90% @ -25). Will need to reduce research when London comes on board as our maintenance will go through the roof. Treasury of 196g right now.

Oh... Vicky has at least one more city:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2729/civ4screenshot00074jv.jpg
and we're well equipped to remove it!

I've got a second SoD setting up in Nottingham right now for the (has to come) attack on Hatty:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7315/civ4screenshot00058py.jpg

Here's London (forces wounded in battle healing up there til defenses arrive):
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3291/civ4screenshot00088yr.jpg

BTW, Tokugowa wanted me to cancel deals with Hatty and I refused. She's is worst enemy so we got -2 for that choice...

The standard Culture and Demographics:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8539/civ4screenshot00068lr.jpg
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2121/civ4screenshot00091jh.jpg



Turn 120 (125 AD)
User comment: Roosevelt thought Vicky was a friend, and we have close borders... He'll be the first to come after us.
Antium finishes: Archer
Cumae finishes: Axeman
Nottingham's borders expand

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Antium begins: Walls
Cumae begins: Archer
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Shock
Tech learned: Construction
Rome finishes: Library
Axeman defeats (2.30/5): English Axeman

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Research begun: Metal Casting
Rome begins: Praetorian
Axeman promoted: Shock
User comment: Metal Casting next for the hammer improvement.
Antium finishes: Walls
Cumae finishes: Archer

Turn 123 (200 AD)
Cumae begins: Catapult
York begins: Barracks
Antium begins: Archer
York finishes: The Kong Miao
User comment: I won't convert religions yet to keep relations down AND we get no benefit from it since we have no cities except york under it.
User comment: and I :whipped: the barracks in Nottingham.
Cumae grows: 7
Nottingham grows: 3
Nottingham finishes: Barracks
York's borders expand
Confucianism has spread: Niani (Malinese Empire)

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Nottingham begins: Library
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Archer
Rome finishes: Praetorian
Antium finishes: Archer

Turn 125 (250 AD)
Rome begins: Colosseum
Antium begins: Colosseum
User comment: and VIcky has no iron now
Rome grows: 7
Cumae finishes: Catapult

Turn 126 (275 AD)
Cumae begins: Catapult
User comment: Tokugowa wants us to cancel deals with Hatty.... Not yet my friend.
Confucianism has spread: Cumae

Turn 127 (300 AD)
User comment: Vicky offers us NOTHING for peace!!!!
Buddhism has spread: Rome

Turn 128 (325 AD)
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Swordsman
Praetorian defeats (4.16/8): English Archer
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (6.64/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Spearman
Confucianism has spread: London (English Empire)
Confucianism has spread: London
Captured London (Victoria)
User comment: Hmmm.... Vicky has one more city!
Cumae finishes: Catapult
Buddhism has spread: Neapolis

Turn 129 (350 AD)
Cumae begins: Colosseum

Turn 130 (375 AD)
User comment: Tok HATES Hatty


All of our eastern border cities have at least two archers and I think walls. We're ok for now. Roosevelt and Tokugowa are the most likely to attack based on relation points. No worries yet, I think Hatty is the only one way out in tech, but I'm not sure as we don't have Alphabet yet!!!

Enjoy!

The Save File:

:wow: this game is going on very fast! shall we rename ourselves to EQ (Extremely Quick)?

:goodjob: bob! I am surprised at vicky, seems like she has 2 more cities judging from the cultural border. She must be settling while we are taking her cities. Guys, you all want to take those cities or raze them? It would burn a hole in our coffers if we keep them. They are also deep into Hatty's territory. Alternatively, we could gift them to Hatty to bribe her to war with Toku :D ... and we backstab her :mischief: :evil: :satan:

-

EDIT: By the way, this is my got-it. Will player later tonight or tomorrow morning.

-

My thought was to take London because we all know first city sites rock (and it does - whales!). Anything past that tho just makes for a huge border to defend against Hatty. Unless we come across a peach of a city, I'd raize the rest of Vicky. We need to eliminate here, if only to reduce the "return to motherland" unhappy penalty.

If you think we could bribe Hatty into a war, then go for it. I just don't want to get saddled with the defense and upkeep of a far flung empire (how long until state property?)

I think she was settling as we aggressed. There was a settler built in London on the turn she propsed peace.

BTW, I'm guessing that Mansa is NW of Hatty - pure guesswork tho.

We've got 1 maybe two wars left before Longbows get researched and cancel our praet advantage. Tho praets will still be great for pillaging during the longbow era.

York is pumping 10 cpt so we should steal the wheat in 3-4 turns. That will prolly upset Hatty a bit (no border pressure penalty yet).

London's Marble and Silver should help out when it comes out of revolt - kinda wishing I didn't raize her iron mine norht of London, but I didn't want Hatty getting a free mine AND I wanted to stop and swords Vickiy might be looking to build (the turn after I removed the iron she came asking for peace).


(Total aside, but I remember the good old days when you captured technology from civs as well as gold when you took their cities - man we could milk the heck out Hatty if that were the case now!)

(Total aside, but I remember the good old days when you captured technology from civs as well as gold when you took their cities - man we could milk the heck out Hatty if that were the case now!)

I hear ya... I still wish there was a way to steal/capture tech from an AI... If anything, you get a tech or two when you eliminate a civ...

Boy, I miss the days of Civ 1... getting a tech when capturing a city... spies being able to steal them...

Just to pipe in on the war situation... I think that Hatty might be best for our next target. I think it would be easier to eliminate the western civs, that way we would only have to focus on the north and east. Less chance of getting attacked from the backside... (Thanks again Toka!)

Special Report

First time ever, in my turn-set report, there will be no screenie of Civ4.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Why?

Becuase Civ4's screenshot screwed up:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-no-screenies.jpg

What the heck!!??? All 3.898MB? GIMP complains that those files are not jpg, and crashes back to Windows.... :aargh: [pissed]

Good news is this report won't span multiple posts, and I get to use lots and lots of smiles :D


The Extremely Short Report

Well, I don't think anyone is interested in reading 8000 words essay (you know, they say "a picture is worth a thousand words", and on average, I placed 8 screenies in a turnset report), so this is a short one.

To cut a long story extremely short: I spend 10 turns turning vicky into history.


Ok, Ok, A Longer Version

Vicky, as expected, has 2 cities, Cantebury (south, besides the horse) and Hastings (North, Capitol). Hastings is on a hill, and being the capitol, it has a total of +50% defence :eek: Even a City Raider III super-praet has an odd of 33% against a fortied archer.

:nono:, I am not going to waste my prates this way. So, I turn to Cantebury at the south.

That has 0 defence, but tons of archers and a spearman. Okay, I can attack that. Meanwhile, I pull more forces at Nothingham to the west ...

And then, 5 turns into my game, its time to take out the 2nd last city of Vicky. :hammer: Just before that, she moved 2 archers away, apparrent to guard a cornfield which I had pillaged. How stupid can she be!

Turn 135 (500 AD)
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (4.40/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): English Archer
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Spearman
Captured Canterbury (Victoria)
Razed Canterbury
Canterbury lost
One worker captured as well

Later, I did Vicky a favor by killing off the two archers that went AWOL when the city they are supposed to be gaurding were under siege.

And then, my scary forces consisting of 2 cats arrived at Hastings.

BOM! BOM! BOM!

They tear the defence down to 12%.... and, at the last of my turnset:

Turn 140 (600 AD)
Nottingham begins: Spearman
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Axeman
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (5.76/8): English Archer
Buddhism has spread: Hastings
Captured Hastings (Victoria)
Razed Hastings
Buddhism has spread: Hastings
Hastings lost

Sorry, OBJ, you will have your piece of action some later time :D


Other Notes

- I accepted Gems from Hatty in exchange with Sheeps (Happiness problem solved. How nice of her).

- I accepted OB with Washington.

- Some of our workers are building roads to Toku, in preparation for a future invasion. BTW, Toku hate us (Annoyed).

- Our forces are healing in the west, some of them can be moved before pressing enter. I suggest using them to scout Hatty's defences and offences capability before declaring. She at least has chariots (Egypt's UU), so I built some spearman.

- London is building Barracks, can and should be whipped before pressing enter. It'd also just expanded, and I think I forgot to MM London to work on the southern silver mine. Next player might want to consider that as well.

- Metal Casting is in, I chose Alphabet. Most AIs already have Alphabet (thanks to Hatty, she must have traded with all of them except Toku of-course).

- Alphabet will be learnt in 2 turns, but we will be broke in 2 turns also :D (100% science now). In some of my turns, I was actually forced to run 30% science.

- Some cites are building forges. I don't know if it is worth it to go for Colossus though, we don't have that many costal tiles.

- That's about it. I'm terribly sorry for the lack of screen shots, if anyone of you is really interested in seeing Vicky's cities, let me know, I'll replay some of the earlier turns and put in 1 or 2 screenies.


Turn 130 (375 AD)
GreyFox: Since Antium is set to avoid growth, why not mazimize hammers?
GreyFox: Set cumae to starve to hasten Colosserum

Turn 131 (400 AD)
Antium's borders expand
Neapolis grows: 4
Confucianism has spread: Boston (American Empire)

Turn 132 (425 AD)
Nottingham grows: 4
York's borders expand
Praetorian defeats (4.40/8): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 133 (450 AD)
London begins: Granary
Antium finishes: Colosseum
Neapolis finishes: Barracks
Nottingham finishes: Library
York finishes: Barracks

Turn 134 (475 AD)
GreyFox: Hatty asked for Sheep , offering Gems. Accepted.
Antium begins: Catapult
Nottingham begins: Granary
York begins: Archer
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Rome finishes: Colosseum
York grows: 3

Turn 135 (500 AD)
Research begun: Alphabet
Rome begins: Forge
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (4.40/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): English Archer
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Spearman
Captured Canterbury (Victoria)
Razed Canterbury
Canterbury lost
Axeman defeats (4.30/5): English Archer
Antium finishes: Catapult
Cumae finishes: Colosseum

Turn 136 (520 AD)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Praetorian
Praetorian defeats (4.16/8): English Archer
Rome grows: 8
Antium grows: 7
Neapolis finishes: Archer
Nottingham finishes: Granary
London's borders expand
London finishes: Granary
Confucianism has spread: Kyoto (Japanese Empire)

Turn 137 (540 AD)
Neapolis begins: Forge
Nottingham begins: Praetorian
London begins: Barracks
Buddhism has spread: Antium
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
York finishes: Archer
Confucianism has spread: Osaka (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Edo (Japanese Empire)

Turn 138 (560 AD)
GreyFox: Washington asked for OB, accepted.
Cumae begins: Forge
York begins: Praetorian
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Spearman promoted: Medic I
Antium finishes: Praetorian

Turn 139 (580 AD)
Antium begins: Forge
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Antium grows: 8
Nottingham finishes: Praetorian
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 140 (600 AD)
Nottingham begins: Spearman
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Axeman
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian defeats (5.76/8): English Archer
Buddhism has spread: Hastings
Captured Hastings (Victoria)
Razed Hastings
Buddhism has spread: Hastings
Hastings lost


- The save: (is OBJ ready to take his revenge?)

Wow! we are really moving.

Just wanted to say about the cities on Avoid Growth, that is partially my fault. I noticed something fishy with Rome, like it was at 1 turn to grow for a few turns, but thought I was just imagining things and I quickly forgot with the war going on.

Anyways I just want to make my recommendations so that bobrath ... um i mean greyfox ... Darn it you guys go too quickly!

So did we finish vicky then? If so I would agree with going after Hatty first before Toku just because I imagine at least Nottingham would be feeling the Egyptian culture pressure by now.

Yes, it sounds like Vicky is gone. May I be one of the first to say... Good riddens!!

I'll give oldbustedjorn till tomorrow night for a "got it" otherwise I'll play sometime Saturday. Hopefully he can get in... he needs to get in on the revenge!

Yes, Vicky is gone. :evil:

:hammer: Tremble, World! Feel the Wraith of the Roman Avengers!!! :hammer:

Yes, Haqtty should be next, else she will just settle even more cites in the void we created at the south-west where the English used to reign.

-

Ok, looks like RL still has a firm grip on OBJ...

I've got it, will play tonight.

Nothing huge to report... I kept it pretty tame, keeping my hand off the :hammer: I was working on rebuilding our empire a bit. Ok, that and Hatty's got Longbows... Still not impossible to take her out, just makes it a little harder on our praets.


Turn 140 (600 AD)

Turn 141 (620 AD)
Tech learned: Currency
Tech learned: Alphabet
Nottingham grows: 5
York finishes: Praetorian
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima (Japanese Empire)

Turn 142 (640 AD)
Research begun: Code of Laws
York begins: Granary
Rome finishes: Forge
Nottingham finishes: Spearman
York grows: 4

Turn 143 (660 AD)
Rome begins: Granary
Nottingham begins: Market
Antium grows: 9
London finishes: Barracks

Turn 144 (680 AD)
London begins: Library
Rome finishes: Granary
Worker loses to: Barbarian Swordsman (6.00/6)

Turn 145 (700 AD)
Rome begins: Market
York finishes: Granary

Turn 146 (720 AD)
Praetorian defeats (0.32/8): Barbarian Swordsman
York begins: Library
Antium finishes: Forge
Neapolis grows: 5

Turn 147 (740 AD)
Antium begins: Market
Cumae finishes: Forge
Nottingham grows: 6

Turn 148 (760 AD)
Cumae begins: Market
Antium grows: 10
Cumae grows: 7

Turn 149 (780 AD)
Nottingham's borders expand

Turn 150 (800 AD)
Tech learned: Sailing
Tech learned: Meditation



I did a little trading, getting Currency + 30g from Hatty for Metal Casting, and later Sailing + Meditation + 100g from Roosevelt for Alphabet.

Code of Laws comes in next turn. We'll want to build courthouses at some point, since we're only able to run 50% science right now.


Since we had OB with Hatty, I did a little scouting of her lands. A little pre-war recon, if you will... :evil:

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3489/civ4screenshot00012ae.jpg

Right now she has 6 cities... I think 3 of them are worth keeping. Memphis has gold and pigs, Heliopolis has gems, and Thebes (buddist holy city) horses and wine.


Roster
player 1: Maquis -- just played
player 2: eektor -- UP
player 3: bobrath -- on deck
player 4: GreyFox --
player 5: oldbustedjorn --


Here's the save:

Pretty good set of turns, building our infracstructure up nicely :D

Looked at the save, some comments for next player:

- a worker is building unworkable farm near japanese border thatis outside any city's BFC:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-com-worker.jpg

Whereas, in Antium is working on an unimproved hill.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-com-antium.jpg

- London has 7 forests. Suggest chopping the one between the lake and the sheep to a farm so that London can work on the silver mines. Hate to see the two bags of money go to waste.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-com-london.jpg

- Wow, Hatty is indeed quite strong. But I think we can go ahead and declare on her, a swift one. However, befor ethat we nee dto build more catapults. We have hit her hard and fast. Our main forces are at the SW, with a nice small army building up in Northingham. With 6 or more catapults, we can swiftly crushed down two cities, and swift the momentum to our side.

- An alternative is of-course to go for tonku instead, but we will lose much momentum since our main force is so far away.

Got it. I'll play tonight but first I want to ask a question to see if I can get a consensus on what everyone wants.

I was thinking we should postpone attacking Hatty until we get knights because we could lose a lot of praets against the longbowmen. Instead of Hatty, we should probably take out Toku first if he hasn't discovered feudalism and hasn't built any longbowmen. I just think if we get in a war with Hatty, it could be drawn out too long as if say we fight against a technologically backward Toku. Any thoughts on this?

@GreyFox - I'll keep those comments in mind. Thanks. Hmm and I can see Antium is unhealthy too.

Edit: I read a post wrong.

- a worker is building unworkable farm near japanese border thatis outside any city's BFC:

Ok, the reason I did this was (in anticipation of Civil Service) was to be able to spread irrigation to Neapolis. Right now there are no tiles that can spread it into the BFC.

I too wonder about Hatty. She's up there (close to us) in score. Toku would definatly be a better target. (Sorry I left our big stack over to the west)

@Team:

With obj not available, would y'all like another player? I'm looking to get into another game with a team that doesn't suck ... and you qualify! ;) Let me know.

I think we could use another player... but I really want to keep OBJ on as an alternate, as he is a regualr VQ'er. -- especially for this revenge game!

As for saying our team "doesn't suck" well, that's a little debatable, as we have been wiped out in our last 2 SG's :lol:

I think we could use another player... but I really want to keep OBJ on as an alternate, as he is a regualr VQ'er. -- especially for this revenge game!

As for saying our team "doesn't suck" well, that's a little debatable, as we have been wiped out in our last 2 SG's :lol:

Losing is not a sign of sucking. Giving up is a sign of sucking ;)

Is that a yes?

It's a yes from me, hopefully the other teammates agree?

Well, I was hoping for some more thoughts on who to go after next. I think I'll wait til tomorrow to play.

As for ChrTh, I say yes. Ooh and if you have any comments on who to attack next feel free to say something.

Of-course, ChrTh, I would be honored.

So what's the order of the roster now?

@maquis: ok, I guessed something like that (abt the farming thing ... but that is a lot of farms to farm :) ) ... might be better to simply chop off that forest by the river.


-

So what's the order of the roster now?

Roster
player 1: Maquis -- just played
player 2: eektor -- UP
player 3: bobrath -- on deck
player 4: GreyFox --
player 5: ChrTh --
alternate: oldbustedjorn --

I'm looking to get into another game with a team that doesn't suck ... and you qualify! ;)


See... now I think I have a quote worthy of a sig. hmmm

I am divided as to who to attack next: on one hand moving our armies from the west would take like forever ... on the other, attacking hatty might be a very big challenge.

Looking at ou economy, I will say we attack Toku. We need those turns spent in marshalling our SoD to Japan soil to further enhance our economy a bit (and of-ourse built us a few more cats).

But remember we have a mini-SoD in Notingham, so, we can start hammering on Toku 2-3 turns before our main stack arrives.

-

on one hand moving our armies from the west would take like forever ...

Well, we do still have OB with Hatty, so that would help a bit... we can cut across her lands, and pop out up by Nottingham.

Thanks for letting me play :) ... I'll take a look at the save tonight and make some comments on who to :hammer:

Just to put the other foot forward:

vq02 - we moved to far from home and then wasted time moving the forces all the way back across our empire. Early war (pre engineering imo) is about getting your forces pre positioned and making sure the next target is next in line. That's the reason in my turn I started creating a SoD in Nottingham.

From Maquis culture shot it does look like Mansa is NW of Hatty. That means if we go to war with Hatty we will have to look seriously at going with Mansa next instead of Tokugowa.

Next player may want to see if Hatty can be bribed into a war with Tokugowa. It would improve our relations with her - bleed her a bit - weaken Tokugowa until we can mop up.

All that would lead to us leaving Hatty as our much safer backdoor while we take down the Americans. Only real danger will be if Hatty starts capturing cities too fast and we create a monster.

If she'll come in for cheap, then I'd suggest doing it asap AND marching our SoDs through her lands. She can't organize her SoDs any faster then we can walk ours through and that will be just fine.

Remember too that she's Creative so any cities that border her either need to get raized OR pump up the culture stuff fast.

Any update on our religious standing? Vassalage and Theocracy would be nice...

I know in VQ02 we made a mistake of moving too far from home and set us back a few turns.

The reason why I suggest Toku is that I think if we were going to attack hatty we should wait since we would lose a lot of praets attacking longbowmen, where as attacking Toku would be easier without longbowmen.

Also, if we get involved in a war with Hatty and it takes too long, there is a good chance Toku could attack us. Where as if we attacked Toku, Hatty is a more peaceful neighbor.

I like the idea of bribing Hatty to help us with Toku, then after Toku work on the Americans. I feel Hatty and Mansa are our most peaceful neighbor.

@bobrath - I know you were trying to show the other side of the argument, but as for your opinion what do you think is better?

I'm going to suggest something else: attack George through FDR. Go East. Why? They're weak techwise(except for HBR), and they're last on the power chart. Also, they have a lot of little cities, which may grow powerful as they get bigger (especially since GW is financial). Not saying conquer them quite yet, but take out FDR's nearby cities and the nearest row of GW cities in order to stunt their growth.

hmmm, as much as I'm all for picking off the easier target.. won't they still be easier in a few years?

What we can't afford to do is waste the praet advantage. I haven't looked at the save, but if Tok doesn't have longbowmen - but is close to them; then we need to take him down now. Perhaps FDR or George will still be tech low and present a third easy target to level up our Praets.

As tempting as going East may be - how many turns will it take to shift our offense over there while making sure our west defense is enough in case Hatty gets uppity?

@Eektor - Tokugowa, but try everything you can to get Hatty to jump in. The boost to relationship points for joint military struggle should be enough to keep her off our back. Seriously tho, use your best judgement and go for it.

Ok, some summary on pros and cons on target for :hammer:

Hatty
Pros

Our armies are already there
Her culture pressure is causing us growth problem
We cleared the space SW for her, leaving her alone now will cause her to grow even bigger
She has a shrine which would help our economy

Cons

She has longsbows
She is the tech + score leader
we might get into a long, difficult war making us vulnerable
Edit by ChrTh: We don't get to look at her if we eliminate her :lol:


Toku
Pros

He is weak
Nobody likes him
We get to expand into our original intended lands

Cons

Army is far


East
Pros

Prevent the Americans from getting stronger
We have friendly backlines, so only need to watch Toku

Cons

Edit by eektor:Army is very far


Anything I missed?

--

Weighing against pro and cons, I would say getting rid of Toku first, then the Americans. Thereafter, we will have all the time and land we need to catch up with Hatty and Mansa in terms of Tech and economy. Then, its doom's time for them.

--.

Great eval, GreyFox. You forgot that Hattie is hot and if we eliminate her we don't get to look at her anymore ;) (so that's a Con) ... I find the "attack Toku then US" idea most compelling.

Preturn: 800 AD
Ok, first of all ChrTh suggestions was interesting. (You guys were supposed to say the same thing, so I can be more reassured I'm doing the right thing. :) ) I checked the save to see what I thought but when I saw our main army would have to go 15 turns to reach Washington and two FDR cities were in the way, I thought Toku would be better. I can get my armies to Toka in 7 turns.

I decided to go after Toka. First I wanted to trade some of our resources to get more money and bump our science rate up. I traded resources with Hatty, Mansa, and Washington. Got enough money to bump us up to 50% science rate with a surplus of +3.

Turn 1: 820 AD
Congradulations we are the largest civ in the world. [party]
(crap I had this picture ... I might have accidentally deleted it.)

Discovered Code of Laws. Decided we need Feudalism and Guilds, so I started research on priesthood.

Moved our stack toward Tokyo.

Turn 2: 840 AD
Discovered Priesthood.
Researching Monarchy. We will be able to access our wine now.

I decided we had some good opportunity to trade some techs. So I got Monarchy, Calendar, and Polytheism for Code of Laws (2) and Alphabet. Not too bad I thought.

Instead of going for Feudalism, I decided to take a quick detour for Civil Service, so we can have Bureacracy and irrigation.

Turn 3- 7: 860 - 940 AD
Building stuff and waiting for my stack to get to Tokyo.

Turn 8: 960 AD
Declared war on the Japanese.

Turn 9: 980 AD
Captured Edo and kept. With it close to our capital and near a copper, I decide it would be better to have it.

122239

Turn 10: 1000 AD

After turn comments:
Tokyo can be captured next turn. I suggest to keep it, since the Egyptian culture pressure won't affect it that much. Check the culture map to see it. Toka is easy there was only 2 units in Edo and there are 3 in Tokyo. Not sure if the others will be that easy.

It seems like Egypt and Mansa are getting ahead in techs. After we incorporate Japan into our territory, we might need to get our economy going to compete with them. We have lots of land and territory so it shouldn't be that hard to catch up. Our economy seems to be picking up after the last two turnsets (I noticed from the graph.) We could use more courthouses.

Here's the autolog:

Turn 110 (125 BC)
Cumae begins: Praetorian
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Library
Cumae grows: 5

Turn 111 (100 BC)
Rome begins: Archer
Antium begins: Praetorian
Rome finishes: Archer
Neapolis finishes: Granary

Turn 112 (75 BC)
Rome begins: Spearman

Turn 113 (50 BC)
Praetorian defeats (6.72/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (3.92/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (3.92/8): English Spearman
Buddhism has spread: Nottingham
Captured Nottingham (Victoria)
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Cumae finishes: Praetorian

Turn 114 (25 BC)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Praetorian
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Rome finishes: Spearman

Turn 115 (0 AD)
Rome begins: Library
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Cumae grows: 6

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Neapolis finishes: Archer

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Neapolis begins: Archer
Nottingham begins: Barracks
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): Barbarian Archer
Cumae finishes: Praetorian
Praetorian defeats (6.64/8): English Axeman

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Cumae begins: Axeman
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Archer defeats (2.46/3): English Axeman

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Archer promoted: City Garrison II
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (5.28/8): English Archer
Praetorian defeats (5.12/8): English Spearman
Confucianism has spread: York
Captured York (Victoria)
Neapolis begins: Walls
Neapolis begins: Barracks
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Worker loses to: English Chariot (4.00/4)
Spearman defeats (3.44/4): English Chariot
Archer loses to: English Chariot (0.16/4)

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Antium begins: Archer
Praetorian defeats (2.40/8): English Spearman
Praetorian defeats (5.28/8): English Chariot
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): English Chariot
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 150 (800 AD)
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Cumae's borders expand
London grows: 6

Turn 151 (820 AD)
Research begun: Priesthood
Tech learned: Priesthood

Turn 152 (840 AD)
Research begun: Monarchy
Tech learned: Calendar
Tech learned: Polytheism
Tech learned: Monarchy
Research begun: Civil Service
Rome grows: 9
London finishes: Library

Turn 153 (860 AD)
London begins: Courthouse
Rome finishes: Market
Antium finishes: Market
York grows: 5
Taoism founded in a distant land

Turn 154 (880 AD)
Rome begins: Catapult
Antium begins: Catapult
Neapolis finishes: Forge

Turn 155 (900 AD)
Neapolis begins: Praetorian
Rome finishes: Catapult
Antium finishes: Catapult
Nottingham grows: 7
Nottingham finishes: Market
York finishes: Library

Turn 156 (920 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Antium begins: Courthouse
Nottingham begins: Archer
York begins: Courthouse
Archer promoted: Guerilla I
Nottingham finishes: Archer

Turn 157 (940 AD)
Nottingham begins: Courthouse
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Courthouse
Cumae grows: 8
Cumae finishes: Market
Archer defeats (1.86/3): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 158 (960 AD)
Rome begins: Praetorian
Antium begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Courthouse
York grows: 6
London finishes: Courthouse

Turn 159 (980 AD)
London begins: Market
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.96/8): Japanese Spearman
Confucianism has spread: Edo (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Edo
Captured Edo (Tokugawa)
Rome grows: 10
Rome finishes: Praetorian
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Nottingham finishes: Courthouse

Turn 160 (1000 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Antium begins: Archer
Nottingham begins: War Elephant


122241

Added ... :lol:

Added ... :lol:

:thumbsup: Glad to know I'm contributing so soon!

@eektor: Great turns, sorry I didn't fall in line with everyone else ;)

Yeah, if Toku is going to be that easy, might as well take him down. Do we want to expand as far north as Kyoto at this juncture, or do you think we should raze north of Edo/Tokyo?

I think there's a big city between Tokyo and Edo just under Kyoto. Might want that for dyes and its still kind of close. I think Kyoto would be good to keep since most capitals make better than average cities. Although razing would help our economy, we don't want to leave too much space so that Hatty and Mansa will get stronger by expanding into that open territory. Oh and I believe the Americans have feudalism so after Toka our praet advantage is gone.

@ChrTh - It wasn't just you, I was being told to attack Hatty, Toku, and Washington.

@GreyFox - On your analysis the East, they are farther than toka so it should be very far not relatively. (when i think of relatively far, i think of its not too far.)

Great job, eektor. :thumbsup: :clap:

Gave me a shock when I click on your autolog .... I was very sure I eliminated Vicky, and was like :"huh? Did some neocomancers riased her from the dead and resurrect her?" ... :lol:

I wasn't sure if you have split our forces into two ... I would have.

I would be inclined to keep Kyoto, since cpaital sites are usually great. But that depends on the available resources there. Plus keeping Kyoto would let us effectively divide the land into two, completely blocking east from west. Then we can take out the americans at our leisure, and can raze cities there without fear of Hatty and Mansa settling in place.

-

Ok, now I feel really stupid - I hadn't seen a civ email in over a week. I don't visit the forums for every update I get, but alway visit enough to keep the updates coming. Somehow, I got tied up enough to miss all of them at least once and forgot about it. I will have to spend a bit reading through the whole thread, but I'm fine with being an alternate for the remainder. RL has let up a bit.

Got it, but I won't play until either late tonight or tomorrow.

hmm I think I was a little :crazyeye: that night. I was in a hurry and I almost forgot to post the autolog and quickly copied and pasted before I went to bed. Sorry about the scare guys.

What, no suggestions or thoughts? Its almost as if you fellas are assuming I don't need (or want) help!

pfft.

Will play tonight after work and get the writeup down then as well.

Ok, hmm let's see some thoughts about the game.

I suggest you make peace with the Japanese and send our stack to Mansa and declare war and take their cities. :D

But seriously, my suggestion is to keep the Japanese cities up to Kyoto and then probably raze the rest, unless some of them look really good. I divided our armies into two stacks one is right next to Tokyo and the other is in Edo. Might want to build some more archers because as of now I only got one archer for Edo and one archer for Tokyo.

But seriously, my suggestion is to keep the Japanese cities up to Kyoto and then probably raze the rest, unless some of them look really good.
I don't think there is the rest :lol:

Looking at the save, in Kyoto's north, you can see a hint of coastline ... so my estimate is that there maybe only 3 jap cities left: Tokyo, an unknown city (Osaka be my guess) working on the dyes east of Tokyo, and Kyoto.

You don't need help, bob. eektor's armies are split into two, you should be able to take tokyo in your initial turns, and Osaka (?) latter in your turnset. Appreciate if you leave me Kyoto :D, but take it if you really can :lol:

But seriously, beef up our defense in London, York and Nothingham. Some of them has only a pathetic warrior or archer guarding the city.

Careful of the jap sword near our border too ...

Good Hunting!

-

-

When I looked at the prior save, I thought I noticed that Toku had 6 cities (5 listed plus the capital)...but I could be mis-remembering.

Well, I captured 3 japanese cities :goodjob:

Too bad tokugawa decided to keep founding new ones! He even tried walking a settler (with two spearmen escorts) across our territory. Of course that turned into a worker donation and free exp for our praets.

At the start of my turns FDR did not have longbows... as of the end of my turns, I see some now. Ah well, at least Japan is still flinging sticks at us with small bows!

Hatty completed Chichen Itza in 1030 AD, so its probably even better we didn't go after her!

Tokyo fell in my first turn and we took no loses. I kept it.
Osaka fell in my sixth turn and we took no loses. I kept it.
Satsuma fell in my seventh turn and we took no loses. I kept it.

We've got three SoDs heading towards the remainder of Tokugawa's cities. I'd suggest using the more western pair for the majority while the southern one gets set up for going after FDR.

We are behind in techs to most of the civs and our GNP is just horrible. Only reason I had good research was pillaging was good income.

We did pop a Great Prophet at the start of my turns and he would have taught us Monotheism. I held off. When Civil Service completed (1040), I researched Monotheism next in one turn (1050), I then had a :smoke: and revolted to both Bureacracy and Organized Religion... Forgetting the GP would give me Theology and thus allowing Theocracy instead!!! Ah well. We get Theology right after I click the revolt button... sigh

Traded Theology to Washington for HorseBackRiding and Literature and 20 gold. He wanted Civil Service, but I don't want that one getting out yet. We completed Drama research in 1080 and have two turns of research into Machinery. (I'm thinking of heading towards Engineering for the improved road movement). I considered Divine Right, but it was too many beakers and I believe we need the military advantage more then we need to found Islam.

Hatty has already pushed the cultural border next to Nottingham (and thus the desire to research drama for the much needed theaters). We need to spread Buddhism to York, London, and Edo and only then should we convert from No Religion to Buddhism (imo). Doing so early would remove needed culture from those two english cities that are under pressure. Flip side is that we will really need the building boost as I doubt we're going to go into another war right away.

I did complete two wonders. Hanging Gardens in Rome (bit of whipping and chopping for this one) and Colossus in Cumae (just whipping here).

I made sure to get Washington more happy towards us. FDR was friends with Tokugawa and that combined with our border pressure means he's the least happy with us. Mansa and Hatty thing we're the bee's knees. I have not traded with either of them (and neither would even consider warring on Japan anyway). Don't want to help the tech leaders - we are the score leaders easily.

We have the best production, the best crop yield, and easily the best power. Hatty leads in Culture and Washington leads in GNP.

Here's the culture (notice FDR did a small fishing village south of LA named New Orleans!):
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4168/civ4screenshot00056ny.jpg

There may be one more Japanese city east of Kyoto, but I don't know yet.

Rome and Antium are building Buddhist Missionaries and I'd guess Rome can build one more - ideally those can all get our remaining three cities lined up with Buddhism. Next player can go straight to Buddhism right away if they want. It will make FDR more angry and probably take Washington to neutral, but it will cement Hatty and Mansa as happy with us.

I did take some screen shots of the three Japanese cities falling - but how exciting is total domination?:p

York will pop borders in 3 turns I think, most of the rest of our cities are not due anytime soon. Rome was unhealthy at the start of my turn, but whipping + aqueduct + hanging gardens + trading for health resources with Washington fixed that for good.

Tokyo is going to be unhappy for a while - at least until we eliminate Japan. Too much desire to return to the fatherland.

Many of our Praets are city raider 3 promoted, but I did try to slip a few medics in there. All of our cities have at least one archer, with the older (ie pure roman) cities having multiple archers. I have not yet research vasalage as I believe we can pick that up from any of the other civs at whim.

That's about it... but I'll probably have more to say tomorrow when I think about this turn and you folks as more questions (de rigour).

Woo Hoo turn log
Turn 160 (1000 AD)
User comment: Washington has Longbows, but not FDR yet
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Archer

Turn 161 (1010 AD)
Rome begins: Aqueduct
Antium begins: Buddhist Monastery
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Praetorian defeats (5.76/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (2.88/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): Japanese Spearman
Praetorian defeats (2.88/8): Japanese Horse Archer
Buddhism has spread: Tokyo
Captured Tokyo (Tokugawa)
User comment: and Tokyo falls with no Roman loses
User comment: FDR has a smallish stack just east of Antium I need to watch
Ananda (Great Prophet) born in Rome
Cumae finishes: Courthouse
Neapolis finishes: Praetorian
York finishes: Courthouse

Turn 162 (1020 AD)
Cumae begins: The Colossus
Neapolis begins: Market
York begins: Confucian Monastery
Praetorian promoted: Medic I
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
User comment: and another Great Prophet... will give us monotheism
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Woodsman I
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Woodsman I
Antium finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Neapolis grows: 6
Nottingham finishes: War Elephant
Praetorian defeats (0.80/8): Japanese Horse Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.72/8): Japanese Swordsman
Praetorian loses to: Japanese War Elephant (2.72/8)
Praetorian loses to: Japanese Spearman (4.00/4)

Turn 163 (1030 AD)
Antium begins: Buddhist Missionary
Nottingham begins: Buddhist Monastery
Edo begins: Barracks
User comment: Hatty just completed Chichen Itza... ugh
Axeman defeats (3.30/5): Japanese Axeman
Axeman loses to: Japanese Axeman (0.25/5)
Praetorian defeats (7.04/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.40/8): Japanese War Elephant
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Axeman
Praetorian promoted: Combat II
Rome finishes: Aqueduct
Praetorian defeats (5.92/8): Japanese Catapult

Turn 164 (1040 AD)
Rome begins: The Hanging Gardens
Archer promoted: Guerilla II
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian defeats (5.60/8): Japanese Spearman
Praetorian defeats (4.40/8): Japanese Spearman
User comment: well - toky tried to escort a settler across our lands with two spearmen... THanks for the worker
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
User comment: aha! Osaka!
Edo begins: Confucian Monastery
Tech learned: Civil Service
Antium finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Nottingham grows: 8
York grows: 6
London grows: 7
Archer defeats (3.00/3): Barbarian Archer

Turn 165 (1050 AD)
Research begun: Monotheism
Antium begins: Buddhist Temple
Praetorian promoted: Medic I
Praetorian promoted: Combat II
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian promoted: Woodsman I
Tech learned: Monotheism
Buddhism has spread: Cumae
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Catapult

Turn 166 (1060 AD)
Research begun: Drama
Tokyo begins: Buddhist Temple
User comment: Revolt to OR and Bureacracy
Tech learned: Theology
User comment: doh... GP gives us Theology and I miss the chance to revolt to theocracy too
User comment: Hatty borders popped into Nottingham...
Praetorian defeats (4.88/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (6.32/8): Japanese Horse Archer
Praetorian defeats (2.40/8): Japanese Spearman
Confucianism has spread: Osaka (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Osaka
Captured Osaka (Tokugawa)

Turn 167 (1070 AD)
Tech learned: Literature
Tech learned: Horseback Riding
User comment: we pick up HBR and Lit for Theology from Washington.
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (1.12/8): Japanese Spearman
Praetorian defeats (7.36/8): Japanese Spearman
Praetorian defeats (5.60/8): Japanese Catapult
Buddhism has spread: Satsuma
Captured Satsuma (Tokugawa)
User comment: Yummy Satsuma
Rome grows: 9
Antium grows: 11
Nottingham finishes: Buddhist Monastery
York finishes: Confucian Monastery

Turn 168 (1080 AD)
Nottingham begins: Buddhist Temple
York begins: Confucian Temple
Tech learned: Drama
Antium finishes: Buddhist Temple
Hinduism has spread: Antium

Turn 169 (1090 AD)
Research begun: Machinery
Antium begins: Theatre
User comment: George is sending missionaries to convert our towns to Hinduism
Rome finishes: The Hanging Gardens
Antium finishes: Theatre
Cumae finishes: The Colossus

Turn 170 (1100 AD)
Rome begins: Buddhist Missionary
Antium begins: Buddhist Missionary
Cumae begins: Lighthouse
User comment: Hanging Gardens AND the Colosuss
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
War Elephant promoted: Flanking I
War Elephant defeats (4.88/8): Japanese Archer


The Save

Fantastically wonderful set of turns, bob! :thumbsup:

3 cities captured, 2 wonders, at only 3 unit losses? That is unbelieveable.

:eek:, it will only contrast how bad I am ... :sad: ... and I just realized after me is ChrTh ... :cry:

-

Don't worry, GreyFox, I am more than capable of :smoke: while fighting.

Quick question: Why revolt to OR if we don't have a state religion?

And GreyFox Humbly Ascends ...

Looking at the world, we have a peaceful south and a chaotic north ... THIS WILL NOT DO... the Japanese menance must end!!!

Seems like I always get to eliminate our enemies

But first, re-assigned a pop in London to work on the lake (that's the reason why we built the Colossus, eh?)

Next thing is revolt to buddhism ... why wait for 2 cities to get converted at the expense of all others when we are already in Organized Religion???


And The War Rages On

First, is the taking of Nara ....

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-nara.jpg

Turn 173 (1130 AD)
Rome begins: Catapult
Antium begins: Praetorian
Nottingham begins: Theatre
Praetorian defeats (2.56/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (6.80/8): Japanese Archer
Captured Nara (Tokugawa)

Then, Kyoto .... (sorry, no pic)

Turn 175 (1150 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Catapult loses to: Japanese Longbowman (2.64/6)
Catapult loses to: Japanese Longbowman (5.40/6)
Praetorian defeats (6.80/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (2.00/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian promoted: Combat II
Praetorian defeats (6.48/8): Japanese Axeman
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Longbowman
Axeman loses to: Japanese Catapult (1.90/5)
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Catapult
Confucianism has spread: Kyoto (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Kyoto
Captured Kyoto (Tokugawa)

:eek:, the Japanese is still around????

Damned, they have one more city!!!

But not for long ... :hammer:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-japnese-gone.jpg

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Warrior
Praetorian defeats (2.00/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (6.72/8): Japanese Axeman
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima
Captured Kagoshima (Tokugawa)
Razed Kagoshima
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima
Kagoshima lost

Decided to raze the last city. (1) It's pretty useless, (2) it overlappes a lot with Kyoto, and (3) our money is draining away ... at a record > -60gpt@80%!!!!


Meanwhile ...

The Americans (the pink one, not the blue one) land is explored to reveal their sources of iron ... see if we can disconnect them and stop their longbows manufacturing ....

Answer is no.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-iron1.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-iron2.jpg

They have 3, and pretty spread out.

Oh, and by the way:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/fox02b-monotheism.jpg

EDIT: Opps, wrong image ...

This is the correct one ... :lol:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-machinery.jpg


Headed us towards Engineering ...


After Turn Notes

Our stack .. (don't worry, there is a few more spread in the captured cities ...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-end-sit.jpg

The cultural view:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-culture.jpg

Our Demographs:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-d-score.jpg


Random Thoughts

- Our economy sucks ... but it should get better once the courthouses are done. Forbidden Palace is unlocked, suggested spot is Kyoto, but up to next player.

- Antium is our prod powerhouse, starting it with heroic epic ...

- Suggest building National Epic in Capital, it is a farming heaven, so maybe a GPFarm?

- I have a mini-SoD assembling in Antium.

- One or two archers are on thier way north to relief the prates of garrison duty.

- Roosy is huge ... I am not too sure if we really want to take him on right now ... Washy seems to be pretty squeezed by Roosy, so may consider starting a Civil War among the Americans ...

- Autolog:
Turn 170 (1100 AD)
GreyFox: MM'd london to work on lake -- that's why we build the Colossus, eh?
GreyFox: Convert to Buddism

Turn 171 (1110 AD)
Praetorian defeats (3.68/8): Japanese War Elephant
Axeman promoted: Combat II
Axeman defeats (4.15/5): Japanese Axeman
Praetorian defeats (6.96/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (2.88/8): Japanese Swordsman
Rome finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Cumae finishes: Lighthouse
London finishes: Market

Turn 172 (1120 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Cumae begins: Catapult
London begins: Archer
Osaka begins: Courthouse
Satsuma begins: Courthouse
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Buddhist Missionary
Cumae grows: 8
Neapolis's borders expand
Nottingham finishes: Buddhist Temple

Turn 173 (1130 AD)
Rome begins: Catapult
Antium begins: Praetorian
Nottingham begins: Theatre
Praetorian defeats (2.56/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (6.80/8): Japanese Archer
Captured Nara (Tokugawa)
Antium finishes: Praetorian
Cumae finishes: Catapult
York's borders expand
London finishes: Archer
Edo finishes: Confucian Monastery
Praetorian defeats (4.40/8): Japanese Horse Archer

Turn 174 (1140 AD)
Antium begins: Praetorian
Cumae begins: Library
London begins: Archer
Rome grows: 11
Rome finishes: Catapult

Turn 175 (1150 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Catapult loses to: Japanese Longbowman (2.64/6)
Catapult loses to: Japanese Longbowman (5.40/6)
Praetorian defeats (6.80/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (6.88/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (2.00/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian promoted: Combat II
Praetorian defeats (6.48/8): Japanese Axeman
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Longbowman
Axeman loses to: Japanese Catapult (1.90/5)
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Catapult
Confucianism has spread: Kyoto (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Kyoto
Captured Kyoto (Tokugawa)
Buddhism has spread: London
Tech learned: Machinery
Rome finishes: Archer
Antium finishes: Maceman
Nottingham finishes: Theatre
York grows: 8
London's borders expand
London finishes: Archer
Edo's borders expand

Turn 176 (1160 AD)
Research begun: Engineering
Rome begins: Maceman
Antium begins: Maceman
Nottingham begins: Forge
London begins: Forge
Buddhism has spread: York
London grows: 9
Tokyo grows: 6
Tokyo's borders expand

Turn 177 (1170 AD)
Nara begins: Courthouse
Praetorian promoted: City Raider III
Rome finishes: Maceman
Antium finishes: Maceman
Cumae finishes: Library
York finishes: Confucian Temple
Satsuma finishes: Courthouse

Turn 178 (1180 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Antium begins: Catapult
Cumae begins: Theatre
York begins: Theatre
Satsuma begins: Granary
Rome finishes: Archer
Confucianism has spread: Baltimore (American Empire)

Turn 179 (1190 AD)
Rome begins: Theatre
Rome finishes: Theatre
Antium finishes: Catapult
Cumae finishes: Theatre
Neapolis finishes: Market
Tokyo finishes: Buddhist Temple
Satsuma finishes: Granary

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
Rome begins: Archer
Neapolis begins: Buddhist Missionary <- The ex-Japanese city needs to be converted.
Tokyo begins: Barracks
Satsuma begins: Theatre
Cumae begins: Catapult
Antium begins: Heroic Epic
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): Japanese Warrior <- appears out of nowhere near Antium, didn't notices it, and it pillaged a newly built cottage.
Praetorian defeats (2.00/8): Japanese Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (6.72/8): Japanese Axeman
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima (Japanese Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima
Captured Kagoshima (Tokugawa)
Razed Kagoshima
Confucianism has spread: Kagoshima
Kagoshima lost


The Save (ChrTh is UP):

Got it, will be playing tomorrow night (EDT).

Hrm, not sure why it was important for us to learn that Fox02 researched Monotheism in 200 AD ... :crazyeye:

:lol: What a :smoke: ... cut-n-paste the wrong image tag from photobucket ... correcting ...

Quick question: Why revolt to OR if we don't have a state religion?

Mainly because it lets you build missionaries even if you don't have monasteries. Quicker spread of religion. (but also a bit of a :smoke: choice as I'm used to having religion by this point in the game!).

@Greyfox - Why did you keep Nara? It has massive overlap with Kyoto and really only gives us fish. Not really understanding the choice on that.

Great turns otherwise, I was fairly certain Japan had a third city east and that's why I didn't move the third stack down to Antium. I saw that Tokugawa had Longbows at the end so I'm guessing someone gave him the tech...:mad:

Our next war will require the next level of military (knights, macemen, etc) OR do we wait until we get to gunpowder (and as such beeline for it and cannons)? I much prefer fighting wars where I have a tech advantage.

Bobrath brings up a good question: do I focus fully on building during my turns? If so, do I disperse the stacks to our border cities (as defenders and eventual military police when obsolete), or do I keep them intact?

In terms of building, I'm guessing we'll want to put some priority on finance (courthouses, markets) rather than science (monasteries, libraries)? I definitely think Kyoto should build Forbidden Palace.

I wouldn't disperse the stacks. Get em lined up by FDR's border - unless something major changed, he's going to be the most likely to come after us AND/OR the most likely for us to go after.

My opinion is that while we might be able to scrape by with city raider 3 praets against Longbows.... well we'd be better off building up enough of a treasury to upgrade those bad boys to more "modern" units and then press on. If FDR wasn't so large then I'd say press our advantage now (he's only had Longbows avail for about 15 turns) but given his size that's a war of attrition I don't like especially because there's a good chance folks like FDR enough for it to hurt our relations.

Speaking of, how did the switch to buddhism affect our relationship points with the other civs?


So, I'm thinking that anything we can do to get our economy ticking. We have to cover our expansion (thank god for organized leader type). While upping research directly with buildings is nice, upping income will also increase our research ability (since we can sustain a higher rate).

I do want to keep in mind that we have to balance building a treasury to pay for unit upgrades with getting back into the tech race. I'm not sure if anyone has researched Civil Service, but once one person does then try to trade it with the other civs to get us caught back up. Hatty was the tech leader so she'll probably be the last person I'd trade with.

Having Engineering will be great for unit movement - next tech?? maybe we go the Banking route first as it will improve our economy (but will mercantillism help us?). Or we go guilds since that leads to Gunpowder (and gets us Knights along the way).

Uggh... in my mind I go back and forth between pushing hard on the military techs to get our army all fearsome AND going the economic/research route to let us get back up the tech tree to some of the yummy civics.

On Nara: It was mainly a misclick, didn't bother to reload since there is a resource. Plus I like Nara ... :D

On Relations: After switching, our relations with Hatty and Mansa rose to around +10, still pleased, with no negatives. Relationship with Americans remain cautious.

On Civil Service: I thought someone did researched it ... the romans IIRC in eektor's turn, but I may be remembering it wrong ...

On Banking: Doesn't Banking requires Guilds? So, after engineering, i think guilds is a good choice.

If FDR wasn't so big, I would say we hit on them now. Now, I think rebuilding might be the more correct path. With the Roman Empire so huge, we would sooner or later catch up in terms of tech (40% of 300 raw commerce is stil greater than 80% of 140 commerce). Also, with Machinery, we no longer can build praets (Maceman cost more than Praets).

-

On Civil Service. I started it and quote from bobrath's turnset

When Civil Service completed (1040), I researched Monotheism next in one turn (1050), ...

Good turns and I agree with taking sometime to build up our empire before we strike the americans. We could always start a world war with Mansa and Hatty vs the Americans and join up later.

on Macemen - well at least macemen has the +50% against melee.

I meant to refer to another Civ having Civil Service (not us as I remember finishing it!). If we still have the monopoly on it, then hold off trading until another civ gets it *then* trade it around to get missing techs.

Turn 0 -- 1200 AD

First things first: Civil Service. We won't be trading it because everyone else has it. Mansa is the only one with Engineering, though, so when that comes in I'll shop it for Feudalism and Compass.

Situation Assessment
Cities:
We have 13 cities, with Kyoto still in revolt for 2 more turns. Most are building buildings. All cities (except for Kyoto of course) are happy and healthy. MM'd Antium a bit (was working a lame tile for some reason) so it'd stop starving. I agree with GreyFox's idea for National Epic in Rome and switch the archer there to National Epic (will only take 5 turns).

Finances:
We're at -62 gpt with science at 80%. Will keep it there to get Engineering before Mansa trades it around (hopefully). Will start Forbidden Palace in Kyoto once it's out of revolt, that should help too.

Civics:
Hrm, we're in Police State. Since we're not at War, I'm going to suggest revolting to Representation because it's cheaper and gives us a happiness boost (not needed yet). When we get Mercantilism (more on that in a second), it'll give us extra research power. I'm not revolting until after Engineering is in, though. Everything else is good.

Nottingham is taking a cultural beating from Hattie. I whip the Forge so we can build something Culturelike there.

Diplomacy:
In a not-so-big-a-surprise, our Buddhist Cohorts are Pleased with us and the Hindu Americans are Cautious. FDR is the only one with any penalties (although I suspect declaring on him will give us some with GW in the future) because of close borders and declaring on a friend (Vicky?). Neither GW or FDR have Buddhism so they can't convert. No one is annoyed with anyone. No one has enough gold or an extra resource to trade us. Techwise FDR is up only Feudalism, GW is up Feudalism+Compass, Hattie is up Music and Philosophy as well as those two, and Mansa has added Engineering. Unfortunately, FDR is the only one without Literature and Drama.

Tech:
Engineering due in 2. I would like to get to Banking for the extra cash possibility. We need Feudalism and Guilds to get there. I hope to trade Engineering for Feudalism and start Guilds. I'm thinking Guilds > Banking > Gunpowder > Chemistry.

Religion:
We're Buddhist. Only 4 cities are sans Buddhism. My goal is to get them Buddhist, hopefully some will spread naturally.

Demographics:
Our GNP is weak--dead last. Hopefully moving towards more advanced economic techs will help. Our approval rate is low, but who cares? Everywhere else, we're #1!

Military:
We're looking good here. I'm going to try to make 2 stacks, one in Edo and one in Antium.

Goals:
Buddhism everywhere. Head down the tech road.

Ok, let's play. Hit ENTER.

Turn 1 -- 1210 AD

FDR adopts Hereditary Rule and Bureaucracy and Serfdom.

Nottingham: Forge > Sistine Chapel (maybe--need to see if I can chop)

:coffee:

Turn 2 -- 1220 AD

Engineering is in. Start Feudalism for the moment.

Cumae: Catapult > Mace
York: Theatre > Forge
Kyoto starts Courthouse

Islam has been founded in Memphis!
Washington adopts Hereditary Rule

I switch Nottingham to Hagia Sophia; will take the same amount of turns, but more likely to get it.

DAMMIT. Mansa traded Engineering to everybody :wallbash:

I go with Paper instead of Feudalism. This does two things: it gives us something (hopefully) to trade, and it allows us to pursue the Education > Liberalism techs if we so choose. Science has to be dropped to 60%.

Turn 3 -- 1230 AD

Heroic Epic completes in Antium. SAVE ANTIUM FOR WEST POINT! Start a Buddhist Missionary and MM a little so it can start growing.

Satsuma: Theatre > Forge

I trade dies to GW for 4gpt
I renegotiate Silver with Hattie to get 5gpt for it (+2gpt)
I renegotiate Cows with Mansa to get 4gpt for it (+1gpt)

Turn 4 -- 1240 AD

Antium: Buddhist Missionary > Buddhist Missionary
Neapolis: Buddhist Missionary > Library
London: Forge > Theatre
Edo: Barracks > Theatre

:coffee:

Turn 5 -- 1250 AD

Rome: National Epic > Buddhist Monastery
Cumae: Mace > Mace

I spread Buddhism to Kyoto.
I spread Buddhism to Edo.

Hrm, Mansa has a Settler/Skirmisher/Skirmisher set walking through our lands. I think he's going to build a city that will quickly become ours (one way or the other).

Turn 6 -- 1260 AD

Paper comes in, start Feudalism (again, just for the moment)
Antium: Buddhist Missionary > Mace
Tokyo: Barracks > Forge

Islam has spread in Nara.

Ok, I trade Literature and Paper to FDR for Feudalism. Trade Paper to Mansa for Compass, 10 gold (his treasury), plus World Map (we can now see all of Hattie's and Mansa's land). Will save Paper to trade to GW next turn for Optics (I hope).

Start Guilds, due in 10 at 50% (our treasury is pretty low right now).

Turn 7 -- 1270 AD

Rome: Buddhist Monastery > Mace
London: Theatre > Confucian Monastery

The Burgeoning Roman Empire now has 5 million souls!

Actually, we can see all of GW's and FDR's lands too, due to the map. With the lands so well known, I bring the exploring Praets home.

GW won't trade Optics or Music to us for Paper. Quite annoying.

Turn 8 -- 1280 AD

Antium: Buddhist Missionary > Hindu Monastery
Cumae: Mace > Harbor

Hinduism has spread in Rome.
Buddhism has spread in Nara (by us)

Turn 9 -- 1290 AD

Hattie wants to trade World Maps. I decline.

Edo: Theatre > Library

Hattie completes the Sistine Chapel.

Buddhism has spread in Osaka (by us). We're now 100% Buddhist.

Turn 10 -- 1300 AD

Rome: Mace > Pike
Antium: Hindu Monastery > Castle
London: Confucian Monastery > Pike
Osaka: Courthouse > Theatre

Nottingham can no longer work on Sistine Chapel. The one turn spent is converted into 72 gold! :)
Science back up to 60%, Guilds due in 4.

Ok, I built some stuff. We're all Buddhists now. The only thing I screwed up was not replacing the Praets with Archers/Longbow. Oh yeah, and I uh forgot to revolt to Representation :blush:

Here's the Save:
122707

Umm...not sure who's up. Maquis, maybe?

Good analysis, and better turns! :thumbsup:

Too bad abt engineering ... damned Mansa.

Since we are all Buddhism now, perhaps we can start confusing the world a bit instead of adding money to Hatty's already huge coffers.

-

I am up, sorta. I want to give OBJ a chance to grab it if he wants... besides, I am up in all 3 of my SGs right now... so I won't get to this until later...


Roster
player 1: Maquis -- UP/on deck
player 2: eektor --
player 3: bobrath --
player 4: GreyFox --
player 5: ChrTh -- just played
alternate: oldbustedjorn -- UP, if able

I am up, sorta. I want to give OBJ a chance to grab it if he wants... besides, I am up in all 3 of my SGs right now... so I won't get to this until later...


Yet another manifestation of Murphy's law in Civ4 SG ... :lol:

Yet another manifestation of Murphy's law in Civ4 SG ...

So true, I haven't played a turnset since Monday... now, BAM!

@ Maquis - At least its the weekend. Would really suck if it happened during the week.

@ ChrTh - Wow, that was a really nice analysis of your turnset.

Well, I might be able to squeeze a turnset in, but I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet - probably wouldn't be a good time to go. Thanks for the offer though. RL sucks sometimes you know?

Ok, I got it now. Looks like I might want to revolt to Representation right away, so I don't forget as well :)

I think I'll be staying in builder mode for most of my turns. The earliest we want to get into a war would be once we have Guilds + several Knights at the ready.

Forgive me for this, but I am posting from work, and don't have all my notes. No screenshots either, but there was nothing of note I felt needed it anyway.

Turn 0: Looking around, I see that several of Toku's former cities need a border pop, and a few of them are set to build Theater/Library/etc... I can think of a better way...

So I revolt, chosing both Representation (since I would catch hell if I forgot!) and Caste System. Although this does not save a lot of money, it allows a bit of flexability.

Turn 1: Once we come out of revolt, I assign a few Artists in the cities that need a border pop. Good thing too, because Mansa just plopped a city down near Kyoto. I don't want him stealing our real estate!

Turn 2-10: A whole lot of building going on! Here's a few highlights:

I have spread Confusinism through most of our lands. Building a few Knights to add to our stacks, and some Longbows for defense.

Research: Guilds in, and I chose Economics. That came in at the end of my turns as well. With Econ in, I revolted to Mercentilism. A free specialist in each city + 3 beakers from Representation... yummy! No one else had Econ, and Hatty, Mansa, and Roosey all came begging for it. I turned them all down; for one, they would only give crappy techs, and I didn't want to help their economies. We're currently researching Printing Press, for the +1 to towns...

Somewhere in my turnset, one of the Americas built Sistine Chapel, so we got a little change from that. I didn't buy any upgrades, waiting for the next up to decide if/what needs to be upgraded.

I think we could be ready for war soon... Once PP comes in, our economy should get a lot stronger.


Roster
player 1: Maquis -- just played
player 2: eektor -- UP
player 3: bobrath -- on deck
player 4: GreyFox --
player 5: ChrTh --
alternate: oldbustedjorn --

Here's the save:

I got it and I'll play tonight.

Are we looking at a war against the Americas in my turnset? Or maybe I'll just build a bunch of knights for the next person. I can't open the saved file at work.

I think that war with America (or America II) would be possible during your turns. I just started building knights, and none are ready; but we have some good stacks on our east borders.

How are we looking at prosecuting the war? Focus solely on FDR, or just grab the cities he has put between us and GW and going after the latter?

I would say take the cities FDR has in between us and Washington and see what we can get for peace. Then declare war on Washington. Of course we need to be careful with FDR since he probably won't be happy with us.

An idea will be to try to get Mansa or Hatty to declare war with us. Hopefully that will slow down their economies.

The only thing that worries me with taking on FDR first, he has cities all the way up & down our border. I'm afraid he'll be pillaging the hell out of our eastern cities... But maybe I am still paranoid from our prior experience (think VQ02) :vomit:

Its going to be tough to war against the Americas unless we can get one to jump onthe other OR we can get one of them liking us more.

FDR is spread all over the place and will be tough to eliminate without exposing us far too much to George. George is only accesible by going through FDR.


Thought about Nara - gift to a civ we're about to wallop, then declare war and raze it. (or would it automatically revert to us?)

We don't *have* to go to war right away, so lets look at who makes the most sense for us to smack down with the lowest chance of negative 3rd party civ reactions.

FDR is the most behind in technology (but is semi-even with us I suspect).
The Americas UU is a modern tech, so we're safe on that front for a while.
Hatty has a huge tech lead, and has had some room cleared for her when we removed Vicky.
Mansa is hemmed in by Hatty, but they seem pretty buddy/buddy right now. (much like George with FDR).

Unfortunately it looks like we're a single party looking at two couples. Thank RNG those couples haven't aligned with each other!

Any chance of beelining for Defensive Pacts and then egging somone into attacking us?

The only tech that I'm worried about is that GW has Gunpowder. Perhaps FDR should be our next target? He has 9 cities, 4 right on our borders (although I only see 8 cities, so I'm not sure where the 9th is). We should be able to grab half his cities within one player's turn, and the march to finish him off should be orderly. With FDR conquered, GW will be surrounded by us.

BTW, who wants to take bets on how long it'll take for Awlil to revolt to us?

The funny thing is, we could win this game via diplo. :crazyeye: ... not that we're going to ... or can ...

EDIT: I'm betting the 9th FDR city is SE of New Orleans, on the Copper Ice.

SECOND EDIT: We have a bunch of builds finishing in 3-4 turns. Maybe convert to Theocracy after those finish and start building troops?

then declare war and raze it. (or would it automatically revert to us?) I'd be interested to know this too. I don't think we would get a chance to raze it... since we have already controlled it in the past...

So, since we seem to be faring better than the last couple of games... I've got to ask, who's ready for VQ05? I'll probably cross-post to the SG registration thread as well with details.

I've got a couple ideas up my sleeve...
One I dreamed up myself, which the warmongers among us might like (you there GreyFox?) I'll call it "The Conquistadors"

The second is a bit of a variant of "Oscillating War" that I'm playing in now. I'll explain later, but I'll just say it's going to be a builder's game. It will have the potential for war in it... but it will *not* be a conquest/domination game. I'm calling it "Exponential Advancement"

I am always ready for a VQ-series SG. Guess it is difficult to forgo a VQ SG ... somewhat like you will never forget your first love :lol: But do let us know more on the detials ... do we need a VQ Planning Thread? :lol:

Back on VQ04:

I don't think we can instigate an all American war, I think they are really happy with each other. But we could (if we are not so behind in tech) get Hatty to war with the Yankees. I would advice continue building up till we have gunpowder.

Or simply take out the smaller America first. We still have open borders with the bigger America, so that is possible, unless the smaller America persuaded his big brother to cancel deals with us.

On Nara: bob, do you really hate Nara that much? :lol:

-

After playing the turns already, I look at what GreyFox said and wishes I saw the "continue to build up til gunpowder" before I started my turns. On Nara, I think Nara can be pretty good with all the ocean squares.

Anyways here's my turnset. I don't think I did well and I underestimated the amount of troops Roosevelt had :(

Turn 1: 1410 AD

123146

Woot! We are the most powerful. Hmm ... number 2 is Roosevelt ... then Washington. I was wondering whether the easy Roosevelt would be so easy after all, but I decided to keep on.

I decided to build some longbowmen on our border cities so I will feel more secure when I begin the war.

Turn 2 - 6: 1420 - 1460 AD
I built longbowmen in the cities bordering roosevelt and tried to get some culture in the cities being attacked by egypt's culture.

Turn 7: 1470 AD
Printing Press discovered and we entered the Renaissance Era.
Decided to research gunpowder since its needed if we want to go toward rifleman or calvary (the next person can decide which.)

Traded PP to Mansa for Music and Philosophy
Traded PP to Hatty for Divine Right and 20 gold.
Caught up a little bit on techs. I could have traded PP to Roosevelt for Optics but that trade seemed bad and I thought we might want to get that off of Roosevelt when we negotiate for peace.

Declared War on Roosevelt
I started moving my stack toward Portland and Los Angeles.

Turn 9: 1490 AD
Once my stack moved near Portland, all hell broke loose and I was attacked by lots of units. Our mighty SoD was decimated. I sent what was left of it back to the hills to recuperate.

Turn 10: 1500 AD
Los Angeles captured and razed.

After turn comments:
Ok, I'm sorry for my turnset. I think it was a huge mistake on my part declaring war on Roosevelt. I was feeling good about it, because I saw Los Angeles, New Orleans and Atlanta with few units guarding them, so I thought it would be a cake walk. Unfortunately they had lots of units in Portland and they left my northern SoD in shambles.

The southern army did alright. It ran into unexpected resistance when a small stack from roosevelt came right beside my army. They pillaged our copper on the border too. I was able to kill them off and then take Los Angeles. Whoever is next can decide whether he wants to do a little detour and take New Orleans or send them up to Atlanta and then rejoin with the north army and attack Portland with full force.

Oh I'm building mostly knights now. I think it might be best to build some macemen or musketman (when we research gunpowder) since we lost a lot of our praets/maceman.

Again I'm really sorry, it was poor turnset on my part. Here's our power graph now:

123145

Here's the autolog too: (Might want to look at turn 9)


Turn 200 (1400 AD)
Antium finishes: Knight
Edo's borders expand
Edo finishes: Library
Osaka grows: 6

Turn 201 (1410 AD)
Antium begins: Longbowman
Edo begins: Longbowman
Antium finishes: Longbowman
Tokyo finishes: Granary
Nara finishes: Work Boat
Kyoto grows: 12
Kyoto's borders expand

Turn 202 (1420 AD)
Antium begins: Longbowman
Tokyo begins: Theatre
Nara begins: Lighthouse
Antium finishes: Longbowman
Neapolis finishes: Theatre
Nottingham finishes: Grocer
York finishes: Market
Tokyo grows: 9
Satsuma grows: 8

Turn 203 (1430 AD)
Antium begins: Longbowman
Neapolis begins: Knight
Nottingham begins: Confucian Monastery
York begins: Longbowman
Antium finishes: Longbowman
Cumae finishes: Knight
London finishes: Grocer
Satsuma finishes: Market

Turn 204 (1440 AD)
Antium begins: Knight
Cumae begins: Knight
London begins: Longbowman
Satsuma begins: Library
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Cumae grows: 11
Tokyo finishes: Theatre

Turn 205 (1450 AD)
Tokyo begins: Courthouse
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison II
Antium finishes: Knight
Nottingham grows: 10
Nottingham finishes: Confucian Monastery
York finishes: Longbowman
Edo finishes: Longbowman
Osaka grows: 7
Osaka finishes: Theatre
Nara finishes: Lighthouse
Kyoto grows: 13

Turn 206 (1460 AD)
Antium begins: Knight
Nottingham begins: Hindu Monastery
York begins: Longbowman
Edo begins: Knight
Osaka begins: Catapult
Nara begins: Granary
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Tech learned: Printing Press
Rome grows: 15
Rome finishes: Bank
Cumae's borders expand
London finishes: Longbowman
Satsuma's borders expand

Turn 207 (1470 AD)
Research begun: Gunpowder
Rome begins: Knight
London begins: Longbowman
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Tech learned: Music
Tech learned: Philosophy
Tech learned: Divine Right
Antium finishes: Knight
Satsuma grows: 9

Turn 208 (1480 AD)
Antium begins: Knight
Pikeman defeats (5.28/6): American Warrior
Spearman defeats (2.32/4): American Warrior
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Antium finishes: Knight
Cumae finishes: Knight
Nottingham's borders expand
Nottingham finishes: Hindu Monastery
York finishes: Longbowman
Tokyo finishes: Courthouse
Satsuma finishes: Library
Kyoto finishes: Forbidden Palace
Knight defeats (10.00/10): American Catapult
Knight defeats (3.00/10): American Catapult
Knight defeats (7.20/10): American Catapult
Praetorian defeats (6.16/8): American Catapult
Maceman defeats (3.76/8): American Catapult
War Elephant defeats (2.24/8): American Horse Archer
Knight defeats (0.80/10): American Horse Archer
Praetorian loses to: American Horse Archer (3.36/6)
Praetorian loses to: American Horse Archer (1.86/6)
Praetorian loses to: American Axeman (4.05/5)
Praetorian loses to: American Horse Archer (0.72/6)
Knight loses to: American Maceman (0.96/8)
Praetorian defeats (5.60/8): American Chariot
Praetorian loses to: American Pikeman (1.86/6)
Praetorian defeats (3.36/8): American Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (0.64/8): American Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (4.24/8): American Longbowman
Maceman loses to: American Maceman (6.40/8)
Praetorian defeats (2.88/8): American Longbowman
Praetorian loses to: American Longbowman (0.24/6)
Praetorian loses to: American Spearman (1.76/4)

Turn 209 (1490 AD)
Antium begins: Knight
Cumae begins: Knight
Nottingham begins: Hindu Temple
York begins: Knight
Tokyo begins: Hindu Monastery
Satsuma begins: Buddhist Monastery
Kyoto begins: Knight
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Combat II
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Combat II
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Combat I
Praetorian promoted: Combat II
Praetorian promoted: Combat III
Maceman defeats (0.80/8): American Pikeman
Knight defeats (8.30/10): American Maceman
Knight loses to: American Horse Archer (1.68/6)
Knight defeats (8.50/10): American Horse Archer
Maceman defeats (5.28/8): American Longbowman
Maceman defeats (7.76/8): American Horse Archer
Spearman defeats (4.00/4): American Maceman
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Rome finishes: Knight
London finishes: Longbowman
Tokyo's borders expand
Tokyo finishes: Hindu Monastery
Nara finishes: Granary
Kyoto grows: 14
Hinduism has spread: Cumae

Turn 210 (1500 AD)
Rome begins: Knight
London begins: Knight
Tokyo begins: Library
Nara begins: Galley
Knight defeats (10.00/10): American Horse Archer
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult loses to: American Longbowman (6.00/6)
Praetorian promoted: City Raider I
Praetorian promoted: City Raider II
Praetorian loses to: American Longbowman (3.12/6)
Maceman promoted: City Raider I
Maceman promoted: City Raider II
Maceman defeats (6.00/8): American Longbowman
Maceman promoted: City Raider I
Maceman promoted: City Raider II
Maceman defeats (6.16/8): American Pikeman
Hinduism has spread: Los Angeles
Captured Los Angeles (Roosevelt)
Razed Los Angeles
Hinduism has spread: Los Angeles
Los Angeles lost
Knight defeats (4.10/10): American Catapult

Uh-oh... I think we have entered a not-well-prepared war.

But, pretty good job capturing LA. Without looking at the save, I don't know if we are doing alright or not. Looking at autolog, I would say we are doing okay. The AI definitely knows how to use his collateral units. I hope we have enough cats of our own. Looking at the Power graph, I think we are doing even better. Sure, our power graph dips due to the counter-attack. But looks at Roosey's power graph. I think it drops even more.

We should be seeking for peace soon, as I don't think we are prepared enough to eliminate the bigger America. What is our objective in this war? Once objective is achieved, we would settle for peace. I would think the object is to clear a path to the smaller America. But I suspect that will be useless, cause once we declare on the smaller America, I predict it won't be long for the big America to step in to aid the little brother.

-

With LA taken and razed we have a path to Washington. I suggest to take at least Atlanta which would help out a lot. Atlanta has 2 or 3 guys guarding it. New Orleans would be nice to take but I wouldn't worry about it. With Atlanta we should be ready to make peace and get ready for the next war.

I think when this war is over Roosevelt might not be the bigger or most powerful of the Americans. Also, watch out because Washington is the most advanced between them.

As for allies the only one that has declare war on Roosevelt in white (instead of red) is Mansa. So, it would be nice to get him in on it, maybe not this time but next time.

I checked out the save last night. We got -1s with Hatty and George for attacking their friend... For some odd reason they like FDR better then us??? sigh.

I'll play tonight after work, so plenty of time for thoughts and discussion.

FDR does have a large chunk of units in the northern city along our eastern border, so a counter attack is a possibility. I'll be interested to see what you folks want to do with this war.

To me it feels like we're just setting up FDR to build up during peace time and come after us when we're too engaged with George!

@Grey - yeah, every time I see Nara I twinge!

Once gunpowder comes in, should we turn down tech for a few turns to buy some upgrades? Can Preats be upgraded to muskets? I can't remember... Or would it ust be better to wait till we get Rifles to upgrade troops?

Otherwise, I think that we should try to focus on one enemy at a time. I agree with bobrath, I don't want to take on George, and give FDR time to build up and catch us unprepared. FDR still has many places where he can come after us, whereas GW still has only one spot to come at us (plus ocean of course)

If we take peace with FDR, make it only for buildup to go after him again. Lets not spread our stacks too thin.

I think I saw that George and Hatty have Gunpowder (vague recollection from last night) - which means FDR will have it soon. My guess is I'll have to see what damage I can do to FDR (ie more pillage then capture), and then try to pull off a peace treaty.

Longer term we may have to take FDR down first and then George. I'm just worried that we'll be behind on military techs from here on out. I guess that means we need to overwhelm them with massive numbers - ie need to support as manay cities as we can so that we can crank out units!

I don't know I've never been too much of a fan of musketman. I think upgrading our praets to musketman is a good idea, but I still like maceman with the +50% to melee because we still fight against pikeman.

Before we make peace I suggest we pillage the towns as much as possible, so that Roosevelt will fall behind in techs. Roosevelt has always had the least technology (besides us). I still think we have a chance to have a lead in military, but we need to beeline to rifleman or calvary.

I'm for taking Roosevelt out first before going after Washington.

Granted, I haven't looked at the save yet ... but why are we wanting to make peace with FDR? I understand we lost a stack near Portland, but can we not reload and attack?

I suggested peace after achieving whatever objective we wish to achieve by starting this war ... but me too have not look at the save ... so I better shut up now ;) :) :p

@bob: hmmm ... nara is a nice place, you know. used to house the imperial palace for some years ... see this webpage (http://www.discover-japan.info/japan_regions_kansai_nara.htm) for more info.

The stack wasn't lost completely, its down to 6 units (from 12 or more) i believe and I moved it back to the jungle hill for extra defense. I would keep it there to take off any units that Roosevelt tries to send to our area. We just need to add reinforcement to the stack to go after Portland.

I wouldn't worry too much of a big SoD from them because I destroyed one down south and they lost a lot trying to take our SoD down.

I suggest looking at the save. We aren't in a bad position, just we won't be able to take Portland until we get more reinforcements. We still can take Atlanta and New Orleans very easily. Oh and becareful because they were sending horse archers from Atlanta to our area to pillage, so it would be good to keep a knight or two around there to prevent that.

Once again... we moved forward.

Short Summary:
Captured Atlanta
Portland under siege, but FDR has a freakin huge stack there!!
Our navy got put back into port...
We're 8 turns out from Rifling

FDR has nothing we want for peace, I suggest next player (or maybe two) just put him out of our misery.

Now the turns:
1500 (turn 0)
I went into deficit research for my first turn to get Gunpowder.

1505 (turn 1)
I switched to the big three civics of war (Vasslage, Theocracy, Police State) cause all I would be doing is producing units (except along Hatty's border of course). Waited one turn so that a few buildings could finish off with the OR bonus.
With Gunpowder coming in, I moved quickly to Replaceable Parts. Also traded Gunpowder to the one civ lacking it (Mansa) in exchange for world map, some gold, and Optics
I moved our northern stack back into our borders to speed up healing.

1510 (turn 2)
War Machine is cranking up!! Hatty completed Angkor What?

1515 (turn 3)
I discover a sleeping Great Engineer in Rome! He happily advances our research of Replaceable parts. It will come in much quicker now.

1520 (turn 4)
I've decided to just isolate New Orleans with a pair of maces. No sense diverting a huge stack for that lonely village. Besides, I may get lucky and FDR will pull a Longbow out. :D
Even better, another GE is born in Rome... Won't waste him on RP - I notice that Versailles is still available... London is the perfect site! So the GE trucks over there to help finish what I start this turn.

1525 (turn 5)
Nara finishes a Galley and our first naval unit sails out to guard the waters over our fishes.
FDR sneaks a knight over to my workers rehooking the copper. Knight is quickly destroyed and our workers recaptured.

1530 (turn 6)
Northern stack ventures back closer to Portland and immeadiatly gets a counter attack thrown at it. Love to see units coming out of a city! 2 loses for 4 wins. Oh and we learn Replacable Parts.
No one is willing to trade us for it (they all have Nationalism and Education). On to Rifling!

1535 (turn 7)
I begin the attack on Atlanta and its a success!! Then my computer crashed. Thanks RNG for auto saves - it let me enjoy capturing Atlanta one more time. I chose to keep Atlanta as a spring board for attacks on Washington in the future. Gives us a nice front there.

1540 (turn 8)
My plan to use open borders with George comes to fruition (we can move faster through GWs lands then through FDRs and less chance of getting attacked). My triple knight group pillages the far eastern iron of FDR and is in route to hit his copper. The cities in his rear are defended by about three units (no way our knights could do it). Here's the layout for that (pic taken at end of turns):
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1966/civ4screenshot00048ac.jpg

1545 and 1550 (turns 9 & 10)
I just keep the pressure on Portland and absorb the counter attacks. As long as FDR is happy to keep throwing units out from the city, I'll be happy to take the free promotions. Our southern stack is nearly in range, the defenses are gone.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7571/civ4screenshot00015vk.jpg
Its going to be a beast of a battle, but once its over FDR will roll up. I checked and he would give us 3 gpt, 190 gold, and his world map for peace... that will buy us what, one or two upgrades??? I don't think so.

Oh, and sure enough FDR tried to sneak a longbow out of New Orleans. PFFT
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4316/civ4screenshot00082fm.jpg

I suspect the next player can revolt back to normal civics and get back to cleaning up our GNP. That's the only spot we're weak (Hatty is of course rocking the culture). Oh power wise:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8290/civ4screenshot00093cn.jpg


TurnLog:
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 210 (1500 AD)
User comment: up research to 90 to get gunpowder next turn.
Tech learned: Gunpowder
Antium finishes: Knight
Neapolis finishes: Knight
Osaka grows: 8

Turn 211 (1505 AD)
Research begun: Replaceable Parts
Antium begins: Knight
Neapolis begins: Musketman
User comment: if we're going to be at war... then go to war civics!!!
Tech learned: Optics
User comment: Gunpowder to Mansa for Optics, GOld, and world map
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Flanking II
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Sentry
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Combat I

Turn 212 (1510 AD)
User comment: Hatty completes Angkor Wat
Knight defeats (4.60/10): American Maceman
Maceman promoted: Woodsman I
Rome finishes: Knight
Antium grows: 14
Edo grows: 7
Osaka finishes: Catapult
Satsuma finishes: Buddhist Monastery

Turn 213 (1515 AD)
Rome begins: Musketman
Osaka begins: Musketman
Satsuma begins: Buddhist Temple
Pikeman promoted: Combat I
Pikeman defeats (2.76/6): American Knight
User comment: I use the GE in Rome to speed up Replaceable parts research
Knight promoted: Mobility
Antium finishes: Knight
London finishes: Knight
Tokyo grows: 10
Kyoto finishes: Knight
Knight defeats (8.60/10): American Catapult

Turn 214 (1520 AD)
Antium begins: Maceman
London begins: Musketman
Kyoto begins: Musketman
Pikeman promoted: Medic I
Knight defeats (8.10/10): American Maceman
Knight defeats (10.00/10): American Horse Archer
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Flanking II
Rome finishes: Musketman
Cai Lun (Great Engineer) born in Rome
Cumae finishes: Knight
Neapolis grows: 8
Nottingham finishes: Hindu Temple
York finishes: Knight
Edo finishes: Knight
Kyoto grows: 15

Turn 215 (1525 AD)
Rome begins: Catapult
Cumae begins: Catapult
Nottingham begins: Confucian Temple
York begins: Buddhist Temple
Edo begins: Maceman
User comment: another GE born in Rome
London begins: Versailles
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Flanking II
Knight promoted: Mobility
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Knight promoted: Medic I
Antium finishes: Maceman
Satsuma finishes: Buddhist Temple
Nara finishes: Galley
Worker loses to: American Knight (10.00/10)

Turn 216 (1530 AD)
Antium begins: Pikeman
Satsuma begins: Barracks
Nara begins: Work Boat
Galley promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Combat II
Knight loses to: American Knight (2.00/10)
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): American Knight
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Flanking II
Knight defeats (10.00/10): American Worker
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Shock
User comment: GE used to speed Versailles in London
Maceman promoted: Combat I
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
Rome finishes: Catapult
Antium finishes: Pikeman
Cumae grows: 12
Cumae finishes: Catapult
Nottingham grows: 11
York grows: 11
London grows: 12
Tokyo finishes: Library
Osaka grows: 9
Knight loses to: American Pikeman (0.60/6)
Knight defeats (8.30/10): American Maceman
Knight defeats (8.60/10): American Longbowman
Knight defeats (7.20/10): American Longbowman
Knight defeats (8.50/10): American Longbowman
Knight loses to: American Longbowman (6.00/6)

Turn 217 (1535 AD)
User comment: Crashed here, but results mainly the same.
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 217 (1535 AD)
Research begun: Rifling
Rome begins: Musketman
Antium begins: Knight
Cumae begins: Catapult
Tokyo begins: Hindu Temple
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Shock
Knight loses to: American Longbowman (1.20/6)
Maceman defeats (6.64/8): American Longbowman
Catapult loses to: American Maceman (8.00/8)
Praetorian loses to: American Maceman (1.92/8)
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): American Maceman
Pikeman defeats (2.94/6): American Longbowman
Hinduism has spread: Atlanta
Buddhism has spread: Atlanta
Captured Atlanta (Roosevelt)
Knight loses to: American Knight (4.00/10)
Maceman promoted: Combat I
Maceman promoted: Shock
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): American Maceman
Maceman defeats (4.00/8): American Knight
Pikeman promoted: Combat I
Pikeman promoted: Combat II
Pikeman loses to: American Pikeman (2.22/6)
Knight defeats (7.90/10): American Pikeman
Pikeman defeats (6.00/6): American Pikeman
User comment: Atlanta converts (by force of course!) and Portland should be next
Rome grows: 16
Cumae finishes: Catapult
London finishes: Versailles
Tokyo grows: 11
Satsuma finishes: Barracks
Kyoto finishes: Musketman
War Elephant defeats (3.04/8): American Knight
Knight defeats (3.00/10): American Longbowman
Knight defeats (8.50/10): American Longbowman

Turn 218 (1540 AD)
Cumae begins: Catapult
Kyoto begins: Buddhist Temple
Satsuma begins: Grocer
Catapult loses to: American Knight (10.00/10)
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Medic I
Rome finishes: Musketman
Antium finishes: Knight
Cumae finishes: Catapult
Neapolis finishes: Musketman
Nottingham finishes: Confucian Temple
Osaka finishes: Musketman
Nara finishes: Work Boat
Galley loses to: American Galley (0.32/2)

Turn 219 (1545 AD)
Rome begins: Knight
Antium begins: Hindu Temple
Cumae begins: Knight
Neapolis begins: Musketman
Nottingham begins: Buddhist Stupa
Osaka begins: Barracks
Nara begins: Caravel
Knight defeats (7.20/10): American Catapult
Maceman promoted: Combat I
Maceman promoted: Cover
Maceman defeats (6.88/8): American Longbowman
Maceman promoted: City Raider III
London finishes: Musketman
Edo finishes: Maceman
Knight defeats (1.20/10): American Longbowman

Turn 220 (1550 AD)
London begins: Buddhist Temple
Edo begins: Buddhist Temple
Edo begins: Knight
Musketman promoted: City Garrison I
Musketman promoted: City Garrison II
Musketman promoted: City Garrison I
Musketman promoted: City Garrison II


and as always here's the world as I leave it:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/386/civ4screenshot00119uk.jpg


Finally the save file:

Good turns, bob!

Then my computer crashed. Thanks RNG for auto saves - it let me enjoy capturing Atlanta one more time.
:lol:

Ok, looking at the cultural map, I think we can raze Seattle (too much pressure from Washy for it to be useful). Denver is also an auto-raze site. I would keep Oakland New York and Miami.

--

Got it, won't get to it until tomorrow (say in 14 hrs time). Thanks Jesus, tomorrow is public holiday (pun intended).

--

I agree that Denver is auto raze.
Seattle only serves as a buffer to GWs culture. Not sure if he'll try to settle there when we raze it.
I don't see an Oakland anywhere tho... maybe you meant Portland?
If you want to keep Miami, then keeping Boston is probably going to be essential - just to maintain a cultural link to it and to keep enough cultural pressure on the former Seattle site.

Even tho we're organized, I suspect we will need to get more and more selective in keeping city sites. Since this is a conquest game, capturing cities isn't as essential. Of course if a city has a wonder or some great resources (we need to find coal!!!) then we'd be silly not to keep it. Additionally if we leave holes then Hatty or Mansa will settle there and give us free gold when we wipe out the new villages in the first turns of war.

BTW re: Versailles, I suppose I could have waited and found a better spot in the Americas for it - but I just can't beleive it would be available 30 odd turns from now. At London, it will help with the cultural war going on AND makes Hatty's cities lower maintenance when we make that move.

I think you made a good call on Versilles. We already have the FP in Kyoto, which helps cities up by FDR (and maybe Washington, a bit)

Also, a couple of notes: I put up a VQ discussion thread yesterday. All VQ vets can chime in on ideas, and I'm going to be starting up VQ05 soon.


Also, related to this game, NEW PATCH!! Now, I'd be willing to upgrade, but I understand if people want to wait. (I assume some of us are playing the GOTM?)

[Totally Off Topic]

Huh? New path is out ???? :wow: ... Geez ... I haven't even start Adv5 and its going to be closed ... :eek:

--

I'm not upgrading until after the CTIV games I'm currently running are finished. CTIV-6 is almost done, CTIV-7 may be done within a rotation, but CTIV-5 might still be awhile.

about Patch

I think we should keep this game pre patch. The new game could go with the new patch, but I don't want to patch until I finish gotm 5. I can try to finish it up quickly this weekend if need be. Then again I think many of us are not wanting to patch yet.

about Denver

I think we should keep it and name it Nara 2 :lol: Just kidding, raze it. I would like to keep Portland New York, Boston, and Miami and raze Denver and Seattle.

@ bobrath

I'm glad you fared better than me against the stack in Portland. At least I killed most of the catapults for you :)

No more crappy story-telling from me ... straight to the point ...

Pre-turn

Lots of MM'ing ... particularly two grumble from the grumpyfox:
- Why is Antium working on a forest instead of copper mine? And why merchant as specialist? why Hindu Temple here? --> change to work on copper, change merchant to engineer, let Hindu continues to be built (1 turn anyway)
- MM'ed osaka to work on the dyes instead of the mills

The siege of Portland

In honor of Lord Eektor ... the 23rd battalion fought fierce and hard for the city of Portland:

Turn 222 (1560 AD)
Catapult loses to: American Knight (6.10/10)
Catapult loses to: American Longbowman (1.80/6)
Two sacrifical cats ... God bless them ...
Musketman promoted: Combat I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult loses to: American Knight (4.70/10)
Third sacrificial cats ... damned, I usually have a one-third chance of retreating cats ...
Maceman promoted: Medic I
Musketman defeats (9.00/9): American Knight
Musketman promoted: Combat I
Musketman defeats (9.00/9): American Knight
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): American Knight
Maceman defeats (5.12/8): American Horse Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): American Pikeman
Praetorian defeats (6.08/8): American Pikeman
Knight defeats (8.70/10): American Longbowman
Knight defeats (4.40/10): American Catapult
Maceman defeats (6.00/8): American Catapult

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-e-portland.jpg

Hinduism has spread: Portland
Buddhism has spread: Portland
Captured Portland (Roosevelt)

And Lord Eektor is avenged.


The seige of Boston

A separate forces, with the guidelines of General Bobrath, uses the route of Washy's land arrives to hit on Boston ...

Turn 226 (1580 AD)

Catapult promoted: Combat I
Catapult loses to: American Longbowman (5.22/6)

As usual, the ritual demands an initial sacrificial cat ...

Knight promoted: Combat I
Musketman promoted: Combat II
Knight promoted: Combat II
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Flanking II
Knight loses to: American Longbowman (4.08/6) <- retreats
Musketman defeats (3.33/9): American Longbowman
Musketman promoted: Combat II
Musketman loses to: American Longbowman (4.08/6)
Musketman promoted: Combat I
Musketman promoted: Cover
Musketman defeats (5.40/9): American Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (5.28/8): American Pikeman

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-e-boston.jpg

Confucianism has spread: Boston (American Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Boston
Confucianism has spread: Boston
Captured Boston (Roosevelt)

Q.E.D.


The Uncompleted Battle for New York and Seattle

An initial stack reached the city of New York, and I made the mistake of going too close to the city ...


Turn 226 (1580 AD)
Knight defeats (8.70/10): American Catapult
Knight defeats (4.30/10): American Knight
Knight defeats (2.60/10): American Longbowman
Maceman loses to: American Crossbowman (1.68/6)
Maceman loses to: American Longbowman (0.48/6)
Pikeman loses to: American Longbowman (3.60/6)
Maceman loses to: American Longbowman (4.56/6)

:aargh: Damned! the remaining survivors moved to the hill.

Next turn, Roosey attacks again ....

Turn 227 (1585 AD)
Catapult loses to: American Pikeman (3.96/6)

Damned ...

Next turn, my lone reinforcement knight arrives ...

But Roosey attacks yet again the next turn ...

Turn 229 (1595 AD)
Knight loses to: American Knight (8.20/10)
Knight loses to: American Musketman (1.44/9)

Geez, I expect knights on hill to fare better ...

But fear not, at the end, the main reinforment arrives.

I tried to avenge our troops to kill off the wounded Knight ...

Knight loses to: American Knight (4.20/10)

Damned, what luck!

Here is the situation at New York ....

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-e-siege-1700.jpg

There is also another smaller stack at the doorstep of Seattle and bombarding the defence from Washy's land. That city should be easily razed/captured. Roosy did send a pikeman to kill one of our knights, but he was avenged by the other knights.


Here is the cultural view:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-e-cultural-1700.jpg

--

Other Notes

- I started Globe Theatre in Rome.

- Most of the cities are now building buildings, so may want to switch to OR. But that incurs a turn of anrachy, so up to next player. I think we have barely sufficient troops to finish off Roosey, but you may want to built a couple more Knights.

- Oh, and we have a shiny new rifleman, thanks to:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-e-rifling.jpg

Heading towards chemistry for Grenies.

Autolog:
Turn 220 (1550 AD)
GreyFox: Why is Antium working on a forest uinstead of copper mine? And why merchant? why H. Temple there?
GreyFox: MM'ed osaka to work on the dyes instead of the mills
Antium finishes: Hindu Temple
York finishes: Buddhist Temple
Tokyo grows: 12
Tokyo finishes: Hindu Temple
Knight defeats (10.00/10): American Catapult
Knight defeats (4.00/10): American Knight
Knight loses to: American Knight (10.00/10)
War Elephant loses to: American Knight (3.70/10)
Knight loses to: American Knight (1.00/10)
Knight loses to: American Pikeman (0.90/6)

Turn 221 (1555 AD)
Antium begins: Catapult
York begins: Pikeman
Tokyo begins: Buddhist Monastery
Knight loses to: American Maceman (8.00/8)
Maceman promoted: Combat II
Maceman defeats (3.44/8): American Maceman
Pikeman defeats (3.84/6): American Knight
Antium finishes: Catapult
York finishes: Pikeman
Osaka grows: 10
Osaka's borders expand

Turn 222 (1560 AD)
Antium begins: Pikeman
York begins: Buddhist Monastery
Catapult loses to: American Knight (6.10/10)
Catapult loses to: American Longbowman (1.80/6)
Musketman promoted: Combat I
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult loses to: American Knight (4.70/10)
Maceman promoted: Medic I
Musketman defeats (9.00/9): American Knight
Musketman promoted: Combat I
Musketman defeats (9.00/9): American Knight
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): American Knight
Maceman defeats (5.12/8): American Horse Archer
Praetorian defeats (8.00/8): American Pikeman
Praetorian defeats (6.08/8): American Pikeman
Knight defeats (8.70/10): American Longbowman
Knight defeats (4.40/10): American Catapult
Maceman defeats (6.00/8): American Catapult
Hinduism has spread: Portland
Buddhism has spread: Portland
Captured Portland (Roosevelt)
Rome grows: 17
Rome finishes: Knight
Antium finishes: Pikeman
Cumae finishes: Knight
London finishes: Buddhist Temple
Kyoto finishes: Buddhist Temple

Turn 223 (1565 AD)
Rome begins: Hindu Temple
Antium begins: Knight
Cumae begins: Longbowman
London begins: Buddhist Monastery
Kyoto begins: Confucian Temple
GreyFox: Rome hit with +6 WW
Rome begins: Globe Theatre
Antium finishes: Knight
Neapolis finishes: Musketman
Knight loses to: American Pikeman (0.60/6)

Turn 224 (1570 AD)
Antium begins: Longbowman
Neapolis begins: Bank
Atlanta begins: Courthouse
Knight defeats (10.00/10): American Pikeman
Knight promoted: Combat II
Maceman promoted: City Raider I
Antium finishes: Longbowman
Cumae finishes: Longbowman
Neapolis grows: 9
Tokyo grows: 13
Atlanta's borders expand

Turn 225 (1575 AD)
Antium begins: Longbowman
Cumae begins: Confucian Missionary
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Tech learned: Rifling
London finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Edo finishes: Knight
Tokyo finishes: Buddhist Monastery
Osaka finishes: Barracks

Turn 226 (1580 AD)
Research begun: Chemistry
London begins: Confucian Temple
Edo begins: Courthouse
Tokyo begins: Buddhist Stupa
Osaka begins: Library
Catapult promoted: Combat I
Catapult loses to: American Longbowman (5.22/6)
Knight promoted: Combat I
Musketman promoted: Combat II
Knight promoted: Combat II
Knight promoted: Flanking I
Knight promoted: Flanking II
Knight loses to: American Longbowman (4.08/6)
Musketman defeats (3.33/9): American Longbowman
Musketman promoted: Combat II
Musketman loses to: American Longbowman (4.08/6)
Musketman promoted: Combat I
Musketman promoted: Cover
Musketman defeats (5.40/9): American Longbowman
Praetorian defeats (5.28/8): American Pikeman
Confucianism has spread: Boston (American Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Boston
Confucianism has spread: Boston
Captured Boston (Roosevelt)
Antium finishes: Rifleman
Cumae finishes: Confucian Missionary
York finishes: Buddhist Monastery
London's borders expand
Satsuma grows: 10
Satsuma finishes: Grocer
Knight defeats (8.70/10): American Catapult
Knight defeats (4.30/10): American Knight
Knight defeats (2.60/10): American Longbowman
Maceman loses to: American Crossbowman (1.68/6)
Maceman loses to: American Longbowman (0.48/6)
Pikeman loses to: American Longbowman (3.60/6)
Maceman loses to: American Longbowman (4.56/6)

Turn 227 (1585 AD)
Antium begins: Catapult
Cumae begins: Catapult
York begins: Catapult
Satsuma begins: Bank
Pikeman promoted: Combat II
Rome's borders expand
Antium finishes: Catapult
Cumae finishes: Catapult
Nottingham finishes: Buddhist Stupa
Osaka grows: 11
Kyoto finishes: Confucian Temple
Catapult loses to: American Pikeman (3.96/6)

Turn 228 (1590 AD)
Antium begins: Catapult
Cumae begins: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham begins: Hindu Mandir
Kyoto begins: Market
Musketman promoted: Medic I
Knight promoted: Shock
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Confucianism has spread: Atlanta
Antium finishes: Catapult
York grows: 12
York finishes: Catapult
Tokyo grows: 14
Kyoto's borders expand

Turn 229 (1595 AD)
Antium begins: Catapult
York begins: Confucian Academy
Portland begins: Theatre
Rifleman defeats (14.00/14): American Pikeman
Antium finishes: Catapult
Cumae finishes: Confucian Missionary
London finishes: Confucian Temple
Edo grows: 8
Atlanta finishes: Courthouse
Portland's borders expand
Knight loses to: American Knight (8.20/10)
Knight loses to: American Musketman (1.44/9)

Turn 230 (1600 AD)
Antium begins: Knight
Cumae begins: Confucian Missionary
London begins: Bank
Atlanta begins: Theatre
Knight loses to: American Knight (4.20/10)

The Save (ChrTh is UP):

See it. Got it. Playing later today.

Let me make sure I'm remembering correctly: Keep New York, New Orleans and Miami, raze Denver and Seattle? Wow, talk about East Coast Bias!

Keep New York, New Orleans and Miami, raze Denver and Seattle? Wow, talk about East Coast Bias!
:rotfl::lol: Oh man, too funny.

Seriously, may want to reconsider seattle ... cause its the only link to Miami.

-

Nice Job GreyFox.

About the East Coast bias - :lol: ChrTh, you can't complain you're from the east coast (I think).

Since we kept Boston, I don't think we need Seattle to link to Miami, right? Although if we keep Seattle, it could be completely surrounded by Washington's culture, if Washington or Chicago get another expansion. Then again if we are planning to attack Washington right after we finish with Roosevelt, this wouldn't matter.

Here's my:devil: :satan: suggestion for Seattle. Leave it for the last city for FDR - then settle for peace.

Make sure we get a world map from FDR as part of the peace deal. This will allow us to find any last minute fishing village on a far away island type of city. Makes taking him out that much easier. Leaving Seattle for last means FDR will never be able to climb out. The cultural pressure will minimize workable tiles for that city (both from George and us) while it will act as a buffer to George's culture shutting off Miami from us.

I don't think a capital can ever flip due to cultural pressure so there's no chance of George ever getting Seattle.

FDR will be a non-factor. He can't colonize off the contient since he won't have any cities on the sea - though he might be able to walk a settler to one of his existing Galleys... PFFT. Seattle will starve down, will have no real defensive units as there will be no resources available to it.

The only downside in my mind is that leaving any FDR cities alive will lead to "return to father land" unhappy penalties. Easily rectified when we go to war with Washington and take Seattle down at our leisure.

Pre-turn
Lots of MM'ing ... particularly two grumble from the grumpyfox:
- Why is Antium working on a forest instead of copper mine? And why merchant as specialist? why Hindu Temple here? --> change to work on copper, change merchant to engineer, let Hindu continues to be built (1 turn anyway)
- MM'ed osaka to work on the dyes instead of the mills


:crazyeye:
Antium had just finished hooking the copper back up - I forgot to jump into the City manager to modify it.
No idea on merchant - I never touched specialists in any of our cities.
Hindu Temple... more for the increase to culture with George and to help with any potential unhappy folks. But honestly, it just looked like the next best building since I didn't see a need for more military units.

I'm happy to say that I've read the whole thread now and can actually follow along. I think I'll stay out of the this one and just lurk, but after we're avenged, I may be up for VQ05.

I felt avenged, once vicky was gone - because she single-knigtedly embarrassed me in VQ02. Even though I didn't make the final blow - I can now sleep at knight (pun intended) knowing that she is known as DAN QUAYLE in the hall of fame....

Hey gang,

I didn't get to the game today, and tomorrow's not looking good (doing major system upgrade this weekend). Can someone swap with me, or OBJ, do you want to take a turn?

I won't be able to take it till tomorrow afternoon, so OBJ can take it, maybe eektor can grab?

I can't take it. I am going to be really busy til this Tuesday.

I'd volunteer for a turnset if this were any other weekend but easter weekend. I'll be gone all day Sunday. If its still open Monday night I may be available for a turnset though...

I got it, then. I'll play tomorrow.

Ok, looks like no one else can take it, I'll play later tomorrow night, unless ChrTh wants to take it before then...

Now, who got it? :crazyeye:

:lol:

ChrTh gets it by 2 minutes!!!!

Hey gang, just want to let you know that I'm playing now (am about 4 turns in). I have shown some strong East Coast Bias so far ...

Turn 0 -- 1600 AD

2 minutes. 2 minutes is the amount of time when fortunes can change. If I #@#! up, then many will lament those 2 minutes ... but if I am glorious ... if I ... well, those 2 minutes will be celebrated for all time!

... but more likely it'll fall somewhere in between ;)

Good lord, who let this happen?!?
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/4808/vq04a7ae.jpg

Oh right, that was me installing GalCiv2 :blush: ... of course, I do have a CD sleeve taped to the inside of the door with the Civ4 CD in it :D


- Most of the cities are now building buildings, so may want to switch to OR. But that incurs a turn of anrachy, so up to next player. I think we have barely sufficient troops to finish off Roosey, but you may want to built a couple more Knights.


The first question to answer: OR or Theocracy? Many of the buildings will finish in 4 turns or less anyway, and 25% of 4 = 1 = amount of time to revolt, it's not worth it in my opinion to revolt at this time. I rather have cheaper gpt and more experienced troops.

I don't think I've ever played a game where Rifling came in before Chemistry.

Would like to get some techs in trade. Hattie already has Chemistry, hopefully she won't trade it around before we can.

I think we'll be able to keep Boston and Miami together culturally without keeping Seattle...Seattle is going to be a tough cookie to crack, though.

I have an idea for New Orleans ...

Turn 1 -- 1605 AD

Everything else looks good. No counter-attack from FDR.

Antium: Knight > Rifle
Edo: Courthouse > Forge

Some assaulting on New York: Suicide CAT. Cat withdraws. Waiting for more troops to arrive.

Nearby, Rifle kills Crossbowman.

Plan for New Orleans begins.

Turn 2 -- 1610 AD

New York sends a Musket after a Pike; Musket goes down.

Chemistry comes in, going for Steel.

Cumae: Confused Missionary > Confused Missionary
Nara: Caravel > Workboat ... oh wait, already has one. Forge.

Our Knight loses to the Marauding Knight :mad: Portland's longbow finishes him off.

2 suicide cats in Seattle. Knight defeats Pike. Knight defeats Longbow. Seattle falls.

Based on the cultural picture, GW's influence shouldn't prevent Boston and Miami from staying together. I raze Seattle.

http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/2729/vq04b7uh.jpg

Assault on New York: 1 Cat attacks, withdraws (I rename it "Nine Lives" since it withdrew last turn as well). The other cat suicides. And then, uh ... three Praets suicide, apparently. :blush: RNG was not in my favor (balances out, I guess, since it was in my favor for Seattle).

Troop movement aplenty.

Turn 3 -- 1615 AD

Antium: Rifle > Rifle

I trade Chemistry plus 60 gold to Mansa for Education.

We get a Great Artist in Rome. I see that Nottingham is under assault and I create a great work there; hope no one minds ...

Tokyo is now Confused.

Fun at Denver: Rifle kills Crossbowman.

Turn 4 -- 1620 AD

Portland defends against Knight.
Antium: Rifle > Rifle
Cumae: Confused Missionary > Bank
Osaka: Library > Market
Atlanta: Theatre > Confused Monastery

More fun at Denver: Rifle kills Cat, Knight kills Cat, Denver is razed.

Assault on New Orleans:
Rifle (that's right, I upgraded the Maces!) defeats Longbow. Rifle loses to Longbow :sad:

Caravel defeats Galley.

Satsuma is now confused.

Turn 5 -- 1625 AD

Boston is out of revolt. Starts a Theatre.

Hey Gang: Every lumbermill should have a road. Makes railing it faster.

Caravel defeats other Galley.

Turn 6 -- 1630 AD

Miami wastes a Mace on our Knight.

Antium: Rifle > Rifle

Assault on New York, hopefully I'll get it right this time.
1 suicide Cat. 1 cat attack, withdraws. Nine Lives lives up to its name, withdraws

Rifle kills longbow.
Knight loses to longbow.
Musket kills longbow.
Mace loses to longbow.
Mace loses to crossbow :mad:
Pike kills musket.

*sigh* ... two very wounded troops left. Hopefully next turn.

Portland is now confused. We are 100% confused.

Turn 7 -- 1635 AD

Antium: Rifle > Confused Temple
Nottingham: Hindu Mandir > University
York: Confucian Academy > Bank
London: Bank > University
Satsuma: Bank > Confucian Monastery
Portland: Theater > Confucian Monastery

New York (again): Rifle defeats Longbow. Musket defeats Longbow. Rifle defeats Crossbow. Start Spreading the News ...

Attack on Miami:
Cat withdraws after nicely wounding a longbow.
Mace defeats longbow.
Musket defeats pike.
Knight defeats longbow. Miami falls!

Battle of New Orleans:
Rifle defeats Longbow.

I hearby declare our War Weariness problem ... RESOLVED.
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6622/vq04c2rm.jpg

Of course, sadly, we're no longer 100% confused.

;)

Turn 8 -- 1640 AD

Rome finishes Globe Theatre, starts University
Neapolis: Bank > Grenadier

Start moving some rifles around to ensure proper guardage.

Turn 9 -- 1645 AD

Antium: Confucian Temple > Rifle
Edo: Forge > Rifle
Tokyo: Buddhist Stupa > Confucian Monastery

:coffee:

Turn 10 -- 1650 AD

Antium: Rifle > Grenadier
Satsuma: Confucian Monastery > University
Kyoto: Market > Barracks
Atlanta: Confucian Monastery > Hindu Monastery

Well, that's it for my turn. Steel comes in next turn, I recommend trading it around (Mansa doesn't have SciMeth so you might be able to pull a 2-fer).

Maquis: Enjoy!
123660

Got it. Looks like I missed out on taking FDR out. Good Job ChrTh! I'll be playing in a few hours...

I didn't get a chance to play yet, took too long to get unpacked (and get the kid to bed!) that I didn't have time to do my turnset. Will play tonight.

A couple of questions... most importantly, who should our next victim... er... target be? I assume GW, so we can stay on Hatty's good side for a bit longer? Or should we do a little more buildup so that we can take Hatty down before she gets too advanced?

Also, I'm trying to figure out if we should move this game up to the patch? There's some instructions out there to copy your game files over, and then run both versions. This would help those that are still playing the GOTM.
I'm seeing a lot of other SG's updating, and frankly I would like to be able to start VQ05 without having to wait for too many others to update...

It makes the most sense to take down GW next. Our armies are there already.

Sure Hatty may get a tech lead on us, but if you throw enough spears at a tank... it goes down eventually. We'll be triple if not quadruple the size of Egypt and that means we can produce 2-3 units for every one of her's. Its not clean or efficient, but when you're trying to make all the world follow your lead... you have to split some eggs.

Just remember to keep our Hatty bordering cities at over whelming defense! We'll be attacking another friendly civ and she or Mansa may decide its time to stop the maddness. (btw, lets keep checking to see if we can get Mansa or Hatty to declare on the other or at least go defensive pact with us...)

Re Patch - I vote to move there soon

Re: Patch: I want to finish CTIV-6 and -7 before I work the patch in. I'm hoping to complete both those this week (hopefully wins).

Revenge is sweet. Nice job ChrTh!

ChrTh: I understand getting your SG's done. I'm coming up soon in CTIV-7, and think I'll be safe to patch after my turnset. :) If we get VQ05 going, I'll be sure to put you far enough down the roster (assuming you're up for the game!)

OK, pretty tame turnset. Building up for the next war I guess...


Turn 240 (1650 AD)
Tech learned: Steel
Portland finishes: Confucian Monastery

Turn 241 (1655 AD)
Research begun: Liberalism
Portland begins: Granary
Rome grows: 18
Antium finishes: Grenadier
Cumae finishes: Bank
Edo finishes: Rifleman
Nara grows: 4
Kyoto grows: 16

Turn 242 (1660 AD)
Antium begins: Grocer
Cumae begins: Grocer
Edo begins: Granary
New Orleans begins: Theatre
Research begun: Steam Power
Neapolis finishes: Grenadier
York grows: 13
Tokyo grows: 16
Portland finishes: Granary

Turn 243 (1665 AD)
Neapolis begins: Cannon
Portland begins: Barracks
Edo finishes: Granary
Tokyo finishes: Confucian Monastery
Osaka finishes: Market
Satsuma's borders expand
Kyoto finishes: Barracks
Portland grows: 9
Boston grows: 11

Turn 244 (1670 AD)
Tech learned: Nationalism
Tokyo begins: Bank
Osaka begins: Granary
Kyoto begins: Forge
Edo begins: Rifleman
Neapolis grows: 11
London finishes: University
Atlanta finishes: Hindu Monastery
New York's borders expand
New Orleans's borders expand

Turn 245 (1675 AD)
Atlanta begins: Granary
New York begins: Courthouse
Miami begins: Theatre
London begins: Rifleman
Rome finishes: University
Antium finishes: Grocer
York finishes: Bank
Osaka grows: 13
Osaka finishes: Granary
Kyoto grows: 17
Miami's borders expand

Turn 246 (1680 AD)
Rome begins: Cannon
Antium begins: Ironworks
Osaka begins: Forge
York begins: Cannon
Satsuma grows: 11
Nara grows: 5
Portland finishes: Barracks

Turn 247 (1685 AD)
Portland begins: Rifleman
Rome grows: 19
Cumae finishes: Grocer
Nottingham finishes: University
Edo grows: 9
Edo finishes: Rifleman
Atlanta finishes: Granary

Turn 248 (1690 AD)
Cumae begins: Work Boat
Nottingham begins: Rifleman
Edo begins: Cannon
Atlanta begins: Rifleman
Cumae finishes: Work Boat
Neapolis finishes: Cannon
London finishes: Rifleman
Satsuma finishes: University
Nara finishes: Forge
Boston grows: 12

Turn 249 (1695 AD)
Cumae begins: Rifleman
Neapolis begins: Knight
London begins: Walls
Satsuma begins: Cannon
Nara begins: Harbor
Tech learned: Steam Power
Rome finishes: Cannon
York finishes: Cannon
Tokyo grows: 17
Kyoto grows: 18
Kyoto finishes: Forge

Turn 250 (1700 AD)
Research begun: Railroad
Rome begins: Rifleman
York begins: Knight
Kyoto begins: Library




Nothing huge to report. Steel came in on my first turn, and Hatty asked to trade it for Nationalism, which I accepted. I think the +2 :) from barracks should help fight WW for the upcoming wars, plus the option to draft units is there. I did not revolt. I kept us in Vassalage as I was building units.

In a bit of a :smoke: moment, I put a turn into Liberalism. It was a mis-click that I didn't notice. Changed to Steam Power as soon as I noticed.

Steam power in on turn 9, chose railroad next. Rails will help speed up everything so fast, especially since we'll be shuffling troops east-to-west once GW is history! :) Oh, and our workers have pretty well run out of things to do. They're active outside of cities waiting to build the rail network.

Oh, in case anyone wonders, we have coal near Neopolis.

I built a few buildings, used some artist specialists on the cities as they came out of revolt to pop the first border... built a few buildings, and am focusing on building Cannons and Rifles now. Note: Antium is building Ironworks. Highest production is there.

One look... GW is second to us in power. I see he has rifles, so let's make sure to soften up with cannons...

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1896/powergraph0pi.jpg

Alright... and another builder's turnset done by the VQ leader. :salute:

After all the :crazyeye: over the weekend of swap..no...skip...no...help! How about a roster check??

Roster
player 1: Maquis -- just played
player 2: eektor -- UP
player 3: bobrath -- on deck
player 4: GreyFox --
player 5: ChrTh -- creamed FDR
alternate: oldbustedjorn -- Living vicariously through us

Oh yeah.. save!

Yeah, everyone has Rifles, which is why I started building Grenadiers. Ironworks in Antium? :eek: Wow, that's going to be a 1-turn infantry city!

EDIT: Railroad is a nice choice as it'll help us if someone attacks while we're mopping up George it'll be easy to divert forces.

PS: Don't forget Baltimore!

One More Thing(tm):

Portland was assaulted by a Knight during my turn. The Knight came directly from New York. Fortunately the Longbow held him off, but that was a precarious situation. When conquering keep an eye on that; border cities can sometimes find the barbarians (figuratively) at the gate. Essentially all cities within 2 tiles of the cultural borders of your opponent should have multiple strong defenders. It's my bad for not catching it while playing, and I'm glad the RNG was in my favor...

Just giving this a bump...

Maybe eektor needs a skip? Let's give him today to chime in, otherwise bobrath can take it...

Sorry about that. Got it and I'll play tonight.

I need to do an emergency Out of Pocket

Any game that I'm in that wants to upgrade to 1.61 can do so, I'll patch up when I return (hopefully Monday, maybe not until Friday next week)

I'm sorry guys, I can't take it. I need a skip.

Got it and will play either much later tonight or tomorrow night (depends on how late softball game goes)

I decided to get us back in the tech game. Just didn't see the benefit of throwing units at George while Hatty and Mansa ran away in the tech realm. So... I let military builds mainly complete, did some aggresive tech trading and... we're in a nice place (imo of course).

I started off be negotiating new deals with all three leaders. We had a gpt for resource existing trade with each and so I cancelled it and asked for all the gpt they had available. Ended up with an extra 11gpt.

In tech trading, I traded away Steam Power to Hatty and Mansa in exchange for 90 gold, both world maps, and Liberalism, Economics, and Military Tradition. I also then signed a Defensive Pact with Hatty. Should keep anyone from getting too trigger happy. Took a hit with Mansa and George for signing it tho. Next turn, Mansa wanted to give us Astronomy for Military Tradition - of course I took it along with some more gold.

In 1720, all but two military builds were completed (two cavalries pending) and so I decided to bite the bullet and make a massive civic change (3 turns of anarchy). We came out of it in Unversal Suffrage, Free Market, Free Religion, and Free Speech... End of my turns, we only ended up losing a single turn of research on Railroad. It will complete when next player hits enter instead of being done on my last turn. Our economy is in a much better place tho. Moved up to 80% research with +60 gpt (Rome is on wealth btw).

Except for George being in the midst of a Great Person based Golden Age we'd be tops across the Demographics board.

Only signifigant happenings were Mansa and George decided to put new cities down next to New York. Mansa stole the iron north of there and Dallas is founded soley to flip to us in the near future.

Hatty does have Railroads and I think George has Physics (he has uranium in his trade window). Not sure what Mansa is up to. We're not out of the woods, but I think we can make a hard push to Infantry and begin the final hurting. Just have to be aware of George getting to Navy Seals.

We do have a very upgradable army and the next players need to keep the income high so that we can afford the upgrades. Heck we still have 3 warriors in our midst!!!

All workers are prepositioned for the coming Railroading frenzy. Most of our Observatories should finish in the next 4-5 turns which will make future research just fly. We're in a heavy culture battle up at Satsuma. I've got the Hermitage nearly finished in Nottingham to keep Hatty's borders at bay.

I had workers chopping any forest not in a fat cross and mining any hill in our area - hoping for a resource pop.

Here's the world view:
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9379/civ4screenshot00043vm.jpg


Turn Log of course
Turn 250 (1700 AD)
Tech learned: Liberalism
Tech learned: Economics
Tech learned: Military Tradition
User comment: Steam to Mansa for Liberalism and Econ (and 40 gold)
User comment: Steam to Hatty for Military Tradition and 50 gold
User comment: Hatty will enter a Defensive Pact with us...
London finishes: Walls
New York finishes: Courthouse
Miami grows: 11

Turn 251 (1705 AD)
London begins: Castle
New York begins: Barracks
Rome grows: 20
Nottingham finishes: Rifleman
Edo finishes: Cannon
Nara grows: 6

Turn 252 (1710 AD)
Tech learned: Astronomy
Nottingham begins: Hermitage
Edo begins: University
User comment: Mansa now offers Astronomy + gold for Military Tradition
Rome finishes: Rifleman
Cumae finishes: Rifleman
London finishes: Castle
Osaka finishes: Forge
Satsuma finishes: Cannon
Nara finishes: Harbor
Portland's borders expand
Portland finishes: Rifleman

Turn 253 (1715 AD)
Rome begins: Observatory
Cumae begins: University
London begins: Observatory
Osaka begins: Observatory
Satsuma begins: Confucian Temple
Nara begins: Theatre
Portland begins: Library
Kyoto grows: 19
Atlanta finishes: Rifleman
Boston grows: 13
Boston finishes: Theatre

Turn 254 (1720 AD)
Atlanta begins: Library
Boston begins: Courthouse
User comment: Massive Civics Change - pure builder now - 3 turns of unrest tho

Turn 255 (1725 AD)

Turn 256 (1730 AD)
User comment: Washington just got a Golden Age

Turn 257 (1735 AD)
User comment: Free Religion, Free Speech, Free Market, Universal Suffrage - man we rock!
User comment: Looks like Washington likes border tensions...
York grows: 14
York finishes: Cavalry
Tokyo finishes: Bank
Osaka grows: 14
Kyoto finishes: Library
Miami finishes: Theatre
New Orleans finishes: Theatre

Turn 258 (1740 AD)
York begins: University
Tokyo begins: University
Kyoto begins: Aqueduct
Miami begins: Courthouse
New Orleans begins: Library
User comment: Sure enough
Rome grows: 21
Neapolis grows: 12
Neapolis finishes: Cavalry
New York finishes: Barracks

Turn 259 (1745 AD)
Neapolis begins: Observatory
New York begins: Library
Rome finishes: Observatory
Satsuma finishes: Confucian Temple
Boston finishes: Courthouse
Miami finishes: Courthouse

Turn 260 (1750 AD)
Satsuma begins: Confucian Academy
Boston begins: Library
Miami begins: Library
User comment: and Mansa jumps on some of *our* iron!!!
User comment: Hatty has Railroads researched...


and the save file:

Guys, may I play using 1.61? I realized I backuped the wrong folder ("My Documents\Civ4" -> "My Documents\Civ4-1.52") instead of the system folder ("Program Files\Games\Civ4") before I patched. :crazyeye:

I can re-install Civ4-1.52, but would rather not go through the trouble since this is the only SG I have that is yet unpatched. I figured if I ask nicely, I might save myself the trouble. :)

-

No response? Is that a "Yes" or a "No"? :hmm:

Realized I brought my laptop home, which is still running 1.52 .... :crazyeye:

@bobrath: learnt recently that mining unworked hills is a waste of time ... resource pop would only occur when the mines are being worked on.

--

Ascension of GreyFox

Historians never agree on what had transpired that effected the ascension of GreyFox.

One version had it that GreyFox and Bobrath, then Emperor, quarrelled over the city of Nara ... it was no secret that GreyFox considered Nara a hard earned city while Bobrath hated it down to its every pillar and stones. This version claims that GreyFox was in a rage when Nara was poorly managed (see Figure below) that he lost control, placed Bobrath under house arrest, and ursurped the throne.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1750-nara.jpg

Another camp of historians believes that the Roman Scientists Association (RSA), which was growing very powerful during that period, favored GreyFox over the Emperor. They believed GreyFox would bring in a new era of science. Thus, the RSA deposed off the Emperor, and placed GreyFox on the throne as a puppet figurehead.

Although it had never been established which version is true, it is undisputed that with the ascension of GreyFox, the Romans reached a new peak of scientific era ...


The Great Roman Scence Era

It began with the birth of Alhazen (Great Scientist) in Rome. His genius inspired a lot of scientists, and Alhazen gathered them together, and established the Academy of Rome.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1755-academy.jpg

Romans were so inspired by the work of Alhazen, that citizens that were formerly busy producing wealth, all flocked over, and started a frantic research.

Hence, in the following years, technologies after technologies were discovered, forming what the historians today refer to as the Great Roman Science Era.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1755-railroad.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1770-constitution.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1775-corporation.jpg

In addition, tons of libraries, univeristies, and observatories were built across the Roman Empire, and rumors had it that GreyFox had planned to start construction of the Oxford University in Boston, before his unfortunate deadth.


The End of GreyFox's Reign

Just as the facts of his ascension were dispouted, the death of GreyFox was also heavily debated. One version claimed that GreyFox died in a visit to the American city of Dallas, where he was shot by an assassin during a revolt (see Figure below). Claimants even suggest that this was what inspired the recent shooting of JFK, although that was certainly unfounded, and dismissed as mere fairy tale.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1800-revolt.jpg

The official version put forth by the RSA then claimed that GreyFox was so indulged into research that he dies in an accident while frantically trying to uncover the secrets behind the technology of using Assembly Lines.

A less popular version claims that GreyFox, still unadapted to the sudden massive deployments of railways all over the Roman Empire, was run over by a train.

Whichever version you believe in, it should be based on facts. We now end this documentary by presenting you with all the evidence we managed to uncover from that year when GreyFox passed into history, and let you decide which version you think is true. Or, perhaps, you would come up with a new version?

Evidence 1: Record of City Production

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1800-cities.jpg


Evidence 2: Record of Public Polls

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1800-info-screen.jpg


Evidence 3: Dairy of the Roman Governor

Turn 260 (1750 AD)
Nara begins: Work Boat
GreyFox: switched Nara to workboat ... Satsuma is starving and yet the fish is not netted!?
GreyFox: Engineer at London? For what? GP? Nah, set him to work on silver. MM'ed London to grow in 1 turn
Tech learned: Railroad
Alhazen (Great Scientist) born in Rome
Neapolis's borders expand
London grows: 13
Kyoto grows: 20
Atlanta grows: 11
Portland grows: 10
Miami's borders expand

Turn 261 (1755 AD)
Research begun: Constitution
Research begun: Corporation
Rome finishes: Academy
GreyFox: with academy, Rome is better off building research
GreyFox: Disband the workboat, useless
London finishes: Observatory
Osaka finishes: Observatory
Nara's borders expand
Nara finishes: Work Boat
Kyoto finishes: Aqueduct

Turn 262 (1760 AD)
Osaka begins: Grocer
Kyoto begins: Observatory
London begins: Confucian Missionary
Nottingham finishes: Hermitage
Osaka grows: 15
Portland finishes: Library
Boston grows: 14
Miami grows: 12

Turn 263 (1765 AD)
Nottingham begins: Observatory
Portland begins: Confucian Missionary
Tech learned: Constitution
York finishes: University
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
Nara finishes: Theatre

Turn 264 (1770 AD)
York begins: Grocer
London begins: Confucian Missionary
Nara begins: Library
Tech learned: Corporation
Rome grows: 22
Antium grows: 16
Cumae finishes: University
Nottingham grows: 13
Atlanta finishes: Library
Portland finishes: Confucian Missionary

Turn 265 (1775 AD)
Research begun: Assembly Line
Cumae begins: Observatory
Atlanta begins: Buddhist Temple
Portland begins: Market
Cumae grows: 14
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
Edo finishes: University
Tokyo grows: 18
Kyoto grows: 21
Atlanta's borders expand
Boston's borders expand
New York grows: 11
New York finishes: Library

Turn 266 (1780 AD)
London begins: Machine Gun
Edo begins: Grocer
New York begins: Granary
Confucianism has spread: Miami
Antium finishes: Ironworks
Neapolis finishes: Observatory
Osaka finishes: Grocer

Turn 267 (1785 AD)
Antium begins: Cavalry
Neapolis begins: Grocer
Osaka begins: University
Confucianism has spread: New York
Antium finishes: Cavalry
Satsuma finishes: Confucian Academy
Kyoto finishes: Observatory
Portland grows: 11
New York finishes: Granary

Turn 268 (1790 AD)
Antium begins: Machine Gun
Satsuma begins: Observatory
Kyoto begins: University
New York begins: Forge
Antium finishes: Machine Gun
Tokyo finishes: University
Boston finishes: Library
New York's borders expand
New Orleans's borders expand

Turn 269 (1795 AD)
Antium begins: Cannon
Tokyo begins: Confucian Missionary
Boston begins: Confucian Temple
Rome grows: 23
Antium finishes: Cannon
Nottingham finishes: Observatory
York finishes: Grocer
London finishes: Machine Gun
Nara finishes: Library

Turn 270 (1800 AD)
Antium begins: Machine Gun
Nottingham begins: Confucian Missionary
York begins: Observatory
London begins: Confucian Missionary
Nara begins: Market
GreyFox: Revolt in Dallas
York begins: Wall Street

Evidence 4: Computer Simulation of 1800AD Roman Empire (version 1.52)

@bobrath: learnt recently that mining unworked hills is a waste of time ... resource pop would only occur when the mines are being worked on.

Thanks for that tidbit, now I know I wasted worker turns (but then I also considered just disbanding the poor bored sobs!).



One version had it that GreyFox and Bobrath, then Emperor, quarrelled over the city of Nara ... it was no secret that GreyFox considered Nara a hard earned city while Bobrath hated it down to its every pillar and stones. This version claims that GreyFox was in a rage when Nara was poorly managed (see Figure below) that he lost control, placed Bobrath under house arrest, and ursurped the throne.

We all know the real truth: Bobrath so hated Nara that he ignored it completly and passed along the decisions of previous leaders.

I did note in my turns that many cities were running super citizens, but I didn't think to go through all the cities and rectify this. Partially because I still don't "get" this level of micro managing.

Great writeup GreyFox. Had me smiling and you also made some great progress. I'd suggest after Assembly lines we turn down the research and build up enough of a treasury to upgrade our entire armed force to Infantry. Perhaps even switch back over to the war civics and spend that same time building new units.

Depends of course on how well our infrastructure is placed for the coming years as I suspect once we go to war footing, we won't be switching back.

Ok, just wanted to check in, I think I am up, unless ChrTh is back "in pocket" in time to take this? Otherwise I will take it and play tonight.

Roster
player 1: Maquis -- Up? Swapping?
player 2: eektor --
player 3: bobrath --
player 4: GreyFox -- Just played
player 5: ChrTh -- out of pocket (maybe just a swap?)

I'm definitely not going to be able to get to it tonight, make it a tentative swap

Ok, I'll take it as a swap. Playing now.

I think after my turnset we should be getting pretty set up for the next war. I I turned down research as much as possible once Assembly Line came in, to do some mass troop upgrades.

After Assembly line, I went for Democracy. I have a feeling that the AIs will be getting it soon, and we don't want emacipation penalties. Also, I turn doewn research to start buying infrantry upgrades.

Unfortunatly, both Hatty and Washington revolt to Emancipation on turn 5 or so. The penalty starts hitting HARD! Seeing +5 emancipation penalties right away. I decide I should turn research back up to get Dempcracy next turn. I hated to have the 1 turn of anarchy, but it can't be helped.

So our production powerhouse is Antium... and I built a factory and coal plant... How nice is a 100 hpt city?

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8365/antium8dv.jpg


Workers are going to sleep in cities, as Rails are pretty much complete.

There's a few old troops left in some cities, but I upgraded 20 or so to Infranty/Machine guns. Chrth can finish upgradeing a few, and start to assemble the SOD...



Turn 270 (1800 AD)
Tech learned: Assembly Line
Antium finishes: Machine Gun
Cumae finishes: Observatory
Tokyo finishes: Confucian Missionary
Osaka grows: 16
Boston finishes: Confucian Temple
Miami finishes: Library
New Orleans grows: 5

Turn 271 (1802 AD)
Research begun: Democracy
Antium begins: Factory
Cumae begins: Factory
Tokyo begins: Market
Boston begins: Granary
Miami begins: Granary
Nottingham finishes: Confucian Missionary
London finishes: Confucian Missionary
Nara grows: 7
Atlanta grows: 12
Boston grows: 15

Turn 272 (1804 AD)
Nottingham begins: Factory
London begins: Factory
Confucianism has spread: Hieraconpolis (Egyptian Empire)
Confucianism has spread: Heliopolis (Egyptian Empire)
Edo grows: 10
Edo finishes: Grocer
Osaka's borders expand
Osaka finishes: University
Kyoto grows: 22
Atlanta finishes: Buddhist Temple
Portland finishes: Market
Boston finishes: Granary

Turn 273 (1806 AD)
Edo begins: Factory
Osaka begins: Bank
Atlanta begins: Confucian Temple
Portland begins: Harbor
Boston begins: University
Confucianism has spread: New Orleans
Satsuma finishes: Observatory
Kyoto finishes: University

Turn 274 (1808 AD)
Satsuma begins: Factory
Kyoto begins: Grocer
Tech learned: Democracy
Antium finishes: Factory
Neapolis finishes: Grocer
Portland finishes: Harbor
Miami finishes: Granary

Turn 275 (1810 AD)
Research begun: Scientific Method
Antium begins: Coal Plant
Neapolis begins: Factory
Portland begins: Bank
Miami begins: Harbor

Turn 276 (1812 AD)
Antium finishes: Coal Plant
New York finishes: Forge
New Orleans finishes: Library

Turn 277 (1814 AD)
Antium begins: The Pentagon
New York begins: Theatre
New Orleans begins: Harbor
Tokyo finishes: Market
Osaka grows: 17
Satsuma grows: 12
Buddhism has spread: Boston

Turn 278 (1816 AD)
Tokyo begins: Factory
Rome grows: 24
Portland's borders expand

Turn 279 (1818 AD)
Osaka finishes: Bank
Portland grows: 12
New York finishes: Theatre
Hinduism has spread: Kyoto

Turn 280 (1820 AD)
Osaka begins: Factory
New York begins: Bank


And the save:

Yeah, "assemble" the SOD ... I doubt I'll use it during my turn :mischief:

I doubt I'll use it during my turn

Why not? With rails everyehere, you can amass the troops at the border in 2-3 turns :thumbsup:

"2-3 turns"? Heh.

Turn 0 -- 1820 AD

Sheesh, I haven't played any Civ for awhile, don't remember what it is I'm supposed to do. Hrm, let me look at my notes from my last turn here: "Kill the Americans" Huh, ok, I guess I can do that :devil:

Man, everyone really loves each other. This would be an easy diplo win.

I'm disappointed with our railroad building. Why don't we have railroads to the border by Baltimore. I send some workers out.

I declare war on GW.

Cats hit Cincy, reducing defense to 12%. Cannon withdraws after bounding the Machine Gun and Rifle. Cannon is suicided. Rifle kills Machine Gun. Rifle loses to Rifle. Rifle kills Rifle. Cincy is ours.

Infantry slaughters Rifle in Dallas. Rifle kills longbow. Dallas is razed.

IBT:

American sends the kitchen sink at us. They lose a bunch of troops, we lose 1 worker and a cavalry.

Turn 1 -- 1822 AD

Trade Mansa sheep for spices
Sci Meth is in, start Fascism (due in 3 at 70%)

Nara: Market > Barracks
Kyoto: Grocer > Factory
Miami: Harbor > Barracks

Infantry slaughters Cavalry outside of Atlanta.
Rifle kills wounded (retreated) Cavalry outside of Cincy.

Infantry loses to Cavalry outside Miami :mad:
Cannon defeats Grenadier (still outside Miami)
Knight finishes off Cavalry.

Cannon kills Cavalry (outside of Cincy again)
Another cannon assaults, withdraws.
Infantry kills Cavalry
Infantry kills Cavalry
Cavalry kills Grenadier
Rifle kills Cavalry

IBT:

No counterattack.

Turn 2 -- 1824 AD

Cumae: Factory > Coal Plant
Atlanta: Confucian Temple > Barracks

Advance continues. Washington is guarded by a Cavalry, three rifles, and two cannons.

Mostly troop movement.

Oh, and in case you were wondering what the toll so far on GW has been:
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3717/vq04d8eo.jpg

IBT:
We lose a Rifle to a Cannon. :sad:

Turn 3 -- 1826 AD

Nottingham: Factory > Coal Plant
London: Ditto
Edo: Ditto

Our little stack heading towards Chicago realizes it needs some upgrades and heads out ...

To be continued!

IBT:

Yikes, our retreating stack takes some casualties. We kill a rifle outside of Washington, though.

Turn 4 -- 1828 AD

Fascism > Physics

Portland: Bank > Factory

Dammit, GW has Infantry. (This, btw, is why I didn't wait. Infantry is a huge advantage over Rifles and I wanted to make sure I got my money's worth).

Assault on Baltimore: Infantry defeats Rifle

Infantry kills retreated Cavalry outside Washington.
Our stack makes a diversion to kill the annoying cannon.

Washington is bombarded down to 40%.

IBT:
Our Chicago-area stack takes some more casualties, but our Washington stack kills a couple rifles.

Turn 5 -- 1830 AD

Satsuma: Factory > Coal Plant
Nara: Barracks > Factory
New Orleans: Harbor > Barracks
Cincy starts a Theatre

I rush an Ironclad in Miami to deal with an imminent Frigate threat.

We get a Great Engineer in Rome, I sleep him for now.

Assault on Baltimore: Infantry defeats Infantry, Baltimore is ours.

Rifle kills Cavalry threatening Miami.

IBT: Cannon assaults stack outside Washington, loses

Turn 6 -- 1832 AD

Miami's seas take some damage. Crap, GW has Destroyers.

Our ironclad sinks ignomiously into the sea :rolleyes:

Outside Miami: Infantry defeats Grenadier.

Assault on Washington:
Cannon bombards to 0. 2 Cannons suicide.
Lose an Infantry, lose another. I send in Nine Lives ... who dies :cry:
But Nine Lives sacrifice will not be in vain, I pledge it!
Infantry defeats Infantry. Infantry defeats Rifle. Infantry defeats Rifle.
Infantry defeats Infantry. Infantry defeats Cannon. Infantry defeats Cavalry.

Washington falls. We now control the Parthenon, the Hagia Sophia, and the Statue of Liberty :thumbsup: ... ooh, and an Academy.

Outside Washington, Infantry kills Rifle

IBT: We lose a Cavalry to an Infantry

Turn 7 -- 1834 AD

Antium: Pentagon > Infantry
Cumae: Coal Plant > Mt. Rushmore
Neapolis: Factory > Coal Plant
Tokyo: Ditto
Osaka: Ditto
Atlanta: Barracks > Factory
Boston: University > Oxford University

Outside Miami, Infantry defeats Cannon.

Outside Houston, Infantry defeats Infantry. Houston has just an infantry and a rifle guarding it.

War Weariness is starting to kick in.

Turn 8 -- 1836 AD

Physics > Combustion

Antium: Infantry > Infantry
Nottingham: Coal Plant > Bank
London: Coal Plant > Infantry
Edo: Coal Plant > Bank
Miami: Barracks > Forge

Dammit, all of our Uranium is in towns.

Actually, screw Combustion. I'm going for Artillery.

Philadelphia is guarded by Machine Gun, Cavalry, and Cannon.

IBT: Philly sacrifices one of its infantry to me

Turn 9 -- 1838 AD

Antium: Infantry > Cannon
Satsuma: Coal Plant > Cannon
New York: Bank > Factory

:coffee:

IBT: We lose an Infantry to an Infantry

Turn 10 -- 1840 AD

Antium: Cannon > Cannon
Cumae: Mount Rushmore > Cannon
Kyoto: Factory > Coal Plant

Assault on Houston:
1 Cannon suicides, 1 withdraws.
1 infantry dies, 2 infantry live, Houston is ours.

Well, I made some modest gains this turn. I should've started building extra cannons early, but I had thought I could research Artillery after Fascism (forgot about Physics). Oh well, still mostly a builder turn ;)

I have a lot of Infantry stacks moving, but they need more cannon/artillery before they'll be able to take out Philly and Chicago. BTW, take a gander at Detroit:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9195/vq04e1ys.jpg

:gripe: ... so we'll probably want a navy too.

Other than that, I think we're in good shape.

Results for this round:
4 cities taken, 1 razed.

And the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/VQ04_AD-1840.Civ4SavedGame

Oh yeah, don't forget the Great Engineer. Don't know what we want to rush with him (anything less than 5 turns when including gold doesn't seem worth it)

:dance: war!!! :hammer:

Good turns, ChrTh! One thing about everybody loves everbody is they would be taken by surprise when we declared. Evident from the 5 cities captured/razed, althought that is still not possible without the decisive moves by ChrTh :goodjob:

RE the GE: How about Pentagon? Or even West Point?

--

Pentagon is built ... hrm, not sure if West Point is available yet, I forgot to check. Perhaps it still is. Antium can't build any more National Wonders, though, otherwise it would be unstoppable.

One More Thing(tm):

Mansa's and Hattie's cities are pretty entwined. I don't think War with just one is going to be possible. We should be prepared for a march to the sea to end the game.

In terms of techs, I would think heading for Flight/Bombers might be the best course of research.

So who's up, Eektor with Bobrath on deck?

Aww you guys are too quick. Can I get another skip? Really sorry about this.

I'm okay with the Flights (Fighters) and Radio (Bombers), but of-course this being a Pangea map, one might want to forgo the bombers and go for arty instead. Cheaper, and a lost more effeicent, but arty are slow.

@eektor: we don't call ourselves VQ for nothing ... actually we have slowed down a lot ... If we were to go at VQ01's pace, this game will be over by now! :lol:

We'll have Arty next turn, I was just thinking in terms of flexibility: with what will likely be a large line of attack, the ability to have Bombers hit different cities/areas without moving them is a bonus.

Good to see we're finally taking Washington down! That's a pits on Dallas though... can we get any units an Amphibious promotion? :)


Also, roster check:

player 1: Maquis -- swapped w/ ChrTh
player 2: eektor -- skip
player 3: bobrath -- UP!
player 4: GreyFox -- on deck
player 5: ChrTh -- just played

As in Conquistadors, my computer is in a funky place and I don't want to hold up progress here (especially when it gets to the good parts!). I'll need a skip on this turn.

Enjoy Greyfox, one turn without me messing up Nara in front of you.

:eek: Geex, I am up already??? Now this is really quick ... :hmm:
:lol:

Got it, playing, posting in 2 hrs. .... I hope.

Geez ... at this rate, I will never get to deal my gems ...

-

Opps, I remember, my home computer is only 1.61., and my laptop is sleeping in my office.

Can we play this with 1.61?

Tell GW I said "Hello"

At this point I would have no problems going to 1.61 on this game. I think by this point most other SG's have moved to 1.61.

Go ahead GreyFox, and move us up... (Hey, take down GW too!)

Roger, "Hello" to GW, and take down GW. Anything else? :D

A relatively quiet turnset .... considering we are at WAR.

First off, switch Kyoto to Jail. Its has +8 WW :eek:

Then, instea dof me saying hello to Washy for ChrTh, he said hello to us with his flashy new destroyer:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1840-destroyer.jpg

Hmmm ... alright. Let you have the naval superiority first, but not for long.

After that, is a series of troops movments, and finally, in position to take Philadelphia.

First, the standard suicide arty:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1848-attack.jpg

Then, the infantry:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1848-attack2.jpg

Then, Philadelphia is ours.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1848-capture.jpg

Quite easily done.

We have not enough artilleries.

I spent the rest of my turnset position our armies in Chigago and San Fransico, and taking down the defense. I did lose a couple of workers, but its okay firstly we have tons of them with nothing to do. Secondly, we will sooner or later get them back.

Next player should be able to take both Chicago and San Fransico in his first turn with a couple of suicide arty followed by infantries:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1860-chigago.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f81/9r3yf0x/vq04-1860-SF.jpg

I think I :smoke: in researching for Biology. Why did I do that ...??? don't know what possess me, but I was thinking we ha dhealth-induced starvation n some cities, so I chose Biology. On hindsight, I clearly wasn't thinking.

I started a couple of destroyers. One of them is at Nara, special dedication to Bobrath :D. I'd also built us a few missionaries and at the end of my turnset, some of them should still have incomplete movements.

We have one more Great Artist borned in my turnset sleeping somewhere, I think we can trigger our golden age ... for what I don't know. Antium is already churning out one unit every turn. But, hey, everybody loves golden age, right, Right, RIGHT?


Turn 290 (1840 AD)
Kyoto begins: Jail
GreyFox: switched kyoto from coal plant to jail ... it has +8 WW.
Rome begins: Cavalry
Antium finishes: Cannon
Cumae finishes: Cannon
York finishes: Wall Street
London finishes: Infantry
Tokyo finishes: Coal Plant
Osaka finishes: Coal Plant
Satsuma finishes: Cannon
Nara grows: 8
Nara's borders expand
Portland grows: 13
Boston's borders expand

Turn 291 (1842 AD)
Antium begins: Cavalry
Cumae begins: Machine Gun
York begins: Factory
London begins: Cannon
Tokyo begins: Aqueduct
Osaka begins: Jail
Satsuma begins: Cannon
Baltimore begins: Hindu Temple
Antium begins: Cannon
Antium finishes: Artillery
Neapolis finishes: Coal Plant
Edo finishes: Bank
Infantry defeats (7.40/20): American Cannon

Turn 292 (1844 AD)
Research begun: Combustion
Antium begins: Artillery
Neapolis begins: Machine Gun
Edo begins: Market
Rome finishes: Cavalry
Antium finishes: Artillery
Cumae finishes: Machine Gun
Nottingham finishes: Bank
Tokyo finishes: Aqueduct
Osaka finishes: Jail
Portland finishes: Factory
Baltimore's borders expand

Turn 293 (1846 AD)
Antium begins: Artillery
Cumae begins: Machine Gun
Nottingham begins: Artillery
Tokyo begins: Artillery
Osaka begins: Artillery
Portland begins: Coal Plant
Cannon promoted: Barrage I
Cannon promoted: Accuracy
Cannon promoted: Barrage III
Antium grows: 17
Antium finishes: Artillery
Satsuma finishes: Artillery

Turn 294 (1848 AD)
Antium begins: Artillery
Satsuma begins: Artillery
Cannon promoted: Barrage I
Cannon promoted: Barrage II
Antium finishes: Artillery
Neapolis finishes: Machine Gun
London finishes: Artillery
Edo grows: 12
Edo finishes: Market
Osaka finishes: Artillery
Kyoto finishes: Jail
Cincinnati finishes: Theatre
Hinduism has spread: Detroit (American Empire)

Turn 295 (1850 AD)
Research begun: Flight
Antium begins: Artillery
Neapolis begins: Infantry
London begins: Infantry
Edo begins: Infantry
Osaka begins: Infantry
Kyoto begins: Coal Plant
Cincinnati begins: Courthouse
Cannon loses to: American Machine Gun (9.90/18)
Cannon loses to: American Machine Gun (13.68/18)
Cannon promoted: Barrage I
Cannon promoted: Barrage II
Cannon loses to: American Infantry (5.40/20)
Infantry defeats (9.20/20): American Infantry
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Barrage II
Artillery defeats (14.94/18): American Machine Gun
Infantry defeats (20.00/20): American Machine Gun
Infantry defeats (15.60/20): American Cavalry
Infantry defeats (20.00/20): American Infantry
Hinduism has spread: Philadelphia (American Empire)
Judaism has spread: Philadelphia
Hinduism has spread: Philadelphia
Captured Philadelphia (Washington)
Infantry promoted: Combat I
Rome grows: 25
Antium finishes: Artillery
Cumae finishes: Machine Gun
Tokyo finishes: Artillery
Satsuma finishes: Artillery
Boston grows: 16
Washington's borders expand

Turn 296 (1852 AD)
Antium begins: Machine Gun
Cumae begins: Artillery
Tokyo begins: Confucian Temple
Satsuma begins: Machine Gun
Washington begins: Buddhist Temple
Infantry defeats (4.80/20): American Cavalry
Infantry promoted: Medic I
Antium finishes: Machine Gun
Nottingham grows: 14
Nottingham finishes: Artillery
Tokyo finishes: Confucian Temple
Osaka finishes: Infantry
Portland finishes: Coal Plant
New Orleans finishes: Barracks

Turn 297 (1854 AD)
Antium begins: Artillery
Nottingham begins: Confucian Missionary
Tokyo begins: Confucian Missionary
Osaka begins: Infantry
Portland begins: Destroyer
New Orleans begins: Courthouse
Infantry promoted: Pinch
Antium finishes: Artillery
Cumae finishes: Artillery
Neapolis finishes: Infantry
Nottingham finishes: Confucian Missionary
York finishes: Factory
London finishes: Infantry
Edo finishes: Infantry
Tokyo finishes: Confucian Missionary
Satsuma finishes: Machine Gun
Houston's borders expand

Turn 298 (1856 AD)
Antium begins: Artillery
Cumae begins: Infantry
Neapolis begins: University
Nottingham begins: Confucian Missionary
London begins: Infantry
Edo begins: Artillery
Tokyo begins: Grocer
Satsuma begins: Artillery
Houston begins: Hindu Temple
Antium finishes: Artillery
Nottingham finishes: Confucian Missionary
Osaka finishes: Infantry
Nara finishes: Factory
Kyoto finishes: Coal Plant
Li Po (Great Artist) born in Kyoto
New York finishes: Factory
Cincinnati grows: 4
Caravel loses to: American Destroyer (30.00/30)
Worker loses to: American Cavalry (15.00/15)

Turn 299 (1858 AD)
Antium begins: Artillery
Nottingham begins: Aqueduct
Osaka begins: Artillery
Nara begins: Destroyer
Kyoto begins: Hindu Temple
New York begins: Coal Plant
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Accuracy
Infantry promoted: Combat I
Infantry promoted: Pinch
Infantry defeats (6.40/20): American Cavalry
Confucianism has spread: Cincinnati
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Accuracy
Antium finishes: Artillery
Nottingham finishes: Aqueduct
Edo finishes: Artillery
Kyoto finishes: Hindu Temple
Atlanta finishes: Factory
New York's borders expand
New Orleans's borders expand
Cincinnati's borders expand
Washington's borders expand
IBT: Washy finally counterattacks at San Fransico. We kill 5 of them, while we lost one.
Infantry defeats (16.40/20): American Infantry
Infantry defeats (12.40/20): American Infantry
Infantry defeats (16.20/20): American Infantry
Infantry loses to: American Infantry (20.00/20)
Infantry defeats (0.20/20): American Infantry

Turn 300 (1860 AD)
Research begun: Biology
Antium begins: Artillery
Nottingham begins: Confucian Missionary
Edo begins: Infantry
Kyoto begins: Colosseum
Atlanta begins: Coal Plant
Confucianism has spread: Houston
Infantry promoted: Pinch
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Accuracy
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Barrage II
Infantry promoted: Combat I

Sorry for the relatively dry write-up, promise to do better next time when I wasn't so sleepy ... :zzzz:

The save: (Too sleepy to figure out who's next ... go figure yourself).

We have not enough artilleries.


:hmm: What'd you do all turn? You should've at least gotten 10 out of Antium. ;)

Maquis, since I went before Greyfox, do you want us to perma-swap our spots in the roster?

Sure, I can prem-swap. I'll try to play my turns tonight.

Hmmm... looks like I'll finally get a taste of the revenge. Do you realize this is my first turnset where we are actually at war! :eek:

:wavey: Is GW dead yet? :rockon:

Sorry if I held us up. I finished my turnset last night but was too tired to post...

Hmm... is GW dead yet? Let's find out...

First off.. 1.61 ate my autolog again! :mad:

Since I don't have a report of casualties from the auto log, let me just say they felt like they were somewhat high. Yes, some were suicide arty, but even some infrantry lost. I guess that's the price paid when fighting troops of equal tech...

As Greyfox said, San Fran was ready to be taken on turn 1. I kept it, it's good to have another coastal city, especially with Detroit down there on the 1-tile island.

Chicago turned out to be a tough nut to crack. Took several turns, and I needed to wait for some reinforcements. GW must have popped some extra Machine guns there. But we were not to be denied.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2779/chicago2su.jpg

From there it was a simple march through the rest of GW's lands...

Buffalo - razed
St. Loius - kept

Ok, that leaves Detroit. It is guarded by one Infrantry and one Machine gun. But with the amphibious landing, going to be tough. I've been bombing down defenses with a destroyer. Couple of troop transports are on the way.

Here's what I get for razing Buffalo...

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/294/abydos1az.jpg

Have to take care of that as soon as we get around to Hatty...

After that happened, I took our Great Artist and plopped him down in St. Loius. That should turn back any thoughts the AI has of settling any more cities...

After Dallas is taken, hatty is next. I've amassed a load of troops on her border. Also, I have put some by Mansa's cities that are in our lands... Remember they have a defensiver pact, so we'll be at war with both as soon as we declare.

Oh, Fission just came in... and I started Manattan. Not sure if we'll use them... but nukes can be available soon :evil:

Sorry for the report, seemed hard to do without the autolog...

The save:

I got it, looks like I'll be having some fun :evil:

Expect it to be posted later today.

Dallas can be taken, but casualty rate will be high. Best bet is to churn out marines. They eat machine guard for breakfast ... better if can give them ambiphuos promotion ...

I see we have airport as well.

One thing that I must ask: what is the number on the top-left corner?

By the way, your first image is not scaled ...

Have fun, ChrTh!

---

Partial Report:

Turn 0 -- 1880 AD

Alright, look like my goal this turn is to finish what I started with GW. I actually might take advantage of the lull and save the attack on Hattie for someone else...

I find it odd that Maquis says Fission is in, but I see one turn left :confused:

Turn 1 -- 1882 AD

Fission is in, start Industrialism for the Marines.

Neapolis: Confused Temple > Airport
Nottingham: Colosseum > Confused Academy
York: Coal Plant > Infantry
Portland: University > Airport
Baltimore: Hindu Temple > Harbor

St. Louis is now confused.

Troop movement.

Science to 80%, Industrialism still in 3.

Turn 2 -- 1884 AD

Antium: University > Bank
York: Infantry > Artillery
London: Artillery > Infantry
Tokyo: Sam Infantry > Artillery
Nara: Coal Plant > Drydock
Kyoto: Buddhist Stupa > Infantry
New York: University > Airport
San Fran: Transport > Coal Plant

Assault on Detroit:
Bombard by Destroyer to 10%
...will have to wait one more turn :blush:

Turn 3 -- 1886 AD

Antium: Bank > Gunship
Atlanta: University > Airport
Boston: Forge > Barracks
Washington: Factory > Coal Plant

Assault on Detroit take 2:
Bombard by Destroyer to 4%
3 artillery suicide :eek:
Infantry kills SAM Infantry (GW upgraded from Machine Gun)
Sam kills Infantry. Detroit falls. I take it to prevent someone else from putting a city there.

Bye bye George ...

Ok, I think I'll attack Hattie in 2 turns.

Turn 4 -- 1888 AD

Industrialism comes in, start Radio.

Rome: Factory > Coal Plant
Antium: Gunship > Tank
Nottingham: Confused Academy > Fighter
York: Artillery > Fighter
London: Infantry > Fighter
Tokyo: Artillery > Fighter (all these fighters are for border city defense)
Kyoto: Infantry > Tank
Portland: Airport > Gunship
Philly: Factory > Coal Plant
Chicago starts Factory

The Roman Empire has 50 million souls!

Aluminum is in (on a previously mined spot) ... including from Nara :lol:

All cities not building anything get switched to airports.


Eh, we're ready. I declare War on Hattie. Mansa declares on me. I work East to West.

Outside Abydos, the declaration of war puts some troops/workers/settler on the tile to be captured.
Arty suicides. Infantry defeats Infantry. Arty defeats Infantry. Capture two workers.

Agades: Cav kills Longbow. Arty suicides. Infantry kills Infantry. Will have to wait a turn.

Awlil is razed.

London has had a nice cultural expansion, giving us the ability to assault Pi-Ram right away.
Artillery bombards to 0. 1 suicide arty. Kill 2 inf and a machine gun, Pi-Ram is ours.

IBT:

Counterattack:

Wow, Pi-Ram gets slaughtered. Hattie has tanks. We'll need to adjust invasion plans accordingly.

Turn 5 -- 1890 AD

Antium: Tank > Tank
Cumae: West Point > Tank
Neapolis: Airport > Tank
Nottingham: Fighter > Marine
York: Fighter > Marine
London: Fighter > Marine
Tokyo: Fighter > Marine
New York: Airport > Tank

Agades is razed.
Adybos is razed.

Heliopolis is bombarded down to 0%. 1 arty suicides. Arty defeats Infantry. Infantry loses to Machine Gun. Infantry defeats Machine Gun. Infantry loses to Infantry. Infantry defeats Infantry. Infantry defeats Cavalry. SAM defeats Longbow. Not enough troops to take.

Pi-Ram is assaulted. Lose a couple artillery, but am able to take it. This time I raze it.

***

Ok, need to take a break. I'll play the rest later or tomorrow.

I think watching almost 10 hours of the NFL Draft has affected my game ... I tried to trade a Gunship to Hatty for 2 infantry and a longbow :crazyeye:

;)

In all serious, I won't be finishing tonight. I hope no one thinks I'm pushing war forward too soon; as far as I'm concerned, we have greater production than our opponents combined, so the sooner we start the sooner we finish, even if we move slowly at first.

Also, I've been reading a Civil War book, and if I had a dollar for every time the phrase "McClellan hesitated" was read, well, I'd be a rich man.

So call me Grant :D

Bob, you can ignore all of ChrTh's report, but you must read this:
Aluminum is in (on a previously mined spot) ... including from Nara :lol:
:D :D :D

ChrTH, you feebleminded warmonger. First you say leave Hattie for the next, then you say attack her in 2 turns, and prompty proceed to attack on the same turn!

But Good job!!! :D

Your computer still needing a break in every 5 turns?

--

No, I got my computer fixed. Unfortunately modern warfare requires me to take a break every 5 turns lest I hose up the team.

If it makes Bob feel better, other cities had Aluminum as well ;)

He who hesitates is lost

No, I got my computer fixed. Unfortunately modern warfare requires me to take a break every 5 turns lest I hose up the team.
:hmm: so its you who need a fix .... :lol:

Ok, status update:

Been doing a lot of studying of the game. This is what I believe:

I believe that once Radio is learned in 3 turns I'll be dropping science to 0%
I believe that I will bring every troop into play to conquer the world
I believe that I will raze every city that I encounter*
I believe that I will be island hopping in the West
I believe that I will be building an army of Gunships and Tanks to roll over the opposition
I believe that we will not have peace until the game is over
I believe that I will not be seeing this game again

*Yes even Memphis with its Shrine and tons of wonders

Don't believe I'll finish my turn tonight...but we'll see.

Turn 5 -- 1890 AD (cont)

MMOW&T

IBT:

No counterattack

Turn 6 -- 1892 AD

Antium: Tank > Tank
Nara: Drydock > Battleship
Portland: Gunship > Gunship
Boston: Barracks > Market
Washington: Coal Plant > Airport

Another attack on Heliopolis:
Cannon (cannon?) suicides (but he withdraws)
Artillery attacks, withdraws
Artillery defeats Infantry
Artillery defeats Infantry
Infantry defeats Infantry
Infantry defeats Artillery
Sam Infantry loses to Artillery
Artillery defeats Artillery
Infantry defeats Artillery
Infantry defeats Catapult
...Heliopolis is razed.

Assault on Memphis:
Artilleryx3 pound to 0%
Suicide an Artillery
Suicide another Artillery
Gunship kills Machine Gun
Infantry defeats Infantry
Infantry defeats SAM Infantry
Infantry defeats Marine ... Memphis (and millenia of wonders) go up in flames

IBT:

We lose a wounded Gunship to an Infantry

Turn 7 -- 1894 AD

Rome: Coal Plant > Tank
Antium: Tank > Tank
Neapolis: Tank > Tank
York: Marine > Tank
Edo: Airport > Gunship
Osaka: Airport > Marine
Kyoto: Tank > Gunship
Atlanta: Airport > Tank
San Fran: Coal Plant > Battleship
St. Louis: Forge > Factory

MMOW&T

IBT:
Lose an Empty Transport to a Destroyer

Turn 8 -- 1896 AD
Antium: Tank > Eiffel Tower
Cumae: Tank > Bomber
Nottingham: Marine > Marine
London: Marine > Bomber
Tokyo: Marine > Gunship
Satsuma: Airport > Gunship
Nara: Battleship > Battleship

Battleship loses to Destroyer :mad:

Assault on Wadan
Suicide an Artillery or two
Infantry loses to an Infantry (I think I need to get Marines over here)
Sam defeats Infantry, razes Wadan

Science down to 0%, Culture up to 10%

A little attack on Byblos
Tank kills SAM

RNG God is angry at me and kills a Tank at Hieraconapolis

IBT:
Nada

Turn 9 -- 1898 AD
Edo: Gunship > Bomber
Osaka: Marine > Bomber
Kyoto: Gunship > Tank
Portland: Gunship > Tank
New York: Tank > Gunship
Detroit starts Barracks

Hieraconpolis
Tank loses to Infantry (while doing collateral damage)
Tank kills Infantry
Marine kills Infantry ... Hieraconpolis is razed

Byblos
Artillery kills SAM
Tank kills Artillery
Tank kills Artillery ... Byblos is razed

Kill a Tank that decided to invade

IBT:
Defeat a SAM, lose a Marine

Turn 10 -- 1900 AD
Rome: Tank > Marine
Cumae: Bomber > Tank
Neapolis: Tank > Tank
York: Tank > Tank
Philly: Coal Plant > Airport
San Fran: Battleship > Battleship
St. Louis: Factory > Coal Plant

SAM attacks a Longbow/Settler that's been sitting on an island.

Infantry kills an Infantry that had wandered into our territory

Battleship destroys destroyer

Troops moving towards Thebes and Giza. Should be able to eliminate Thebes next turn.

Our treasury is at about 3000 ... feel free to upgrade/rush whatever you want!

Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/VQ04_AD-1900.Civ4SavedGame

We probably should build a couple more transports on the east coast. There are some troops in St. Louis ready to go East.

I think Eektor is up.

EDIT: The SAM can probably "fortify until heal" and so the transport/destroyer should be sent back west to pick up more troops -- can be done immediately. Also might want to airlift a marine or 2 to St. Louis

2nd EDIT: Looked at the map again. Attack Thebes with the Southern Troops first; if you can raze it, you should be able to immediately assault Kumbi Selah with the North troops (since it'll take the Inter-turn before Kumbi can expand its cultural borders again). You also might want to not raze Kumbi and Giza so that they can become Bomber staging areas. Or you might not care and just want to raze everything :D

One more thought ... keeping Thebes might be a good deployment spot

Alright I finally have time to play again. I need to catch up on the reading for this game first. I should be able to play by tonight or tomorrow night. BTW, are we playing in 1.61 now?

Yes, we're on 1.61.

Bob, you can ignore all of ChrTh's report, but you must read this:

:D :D :D

Pfft. We would have had the Aluminum regardless of Nara being there or not. Our culture is unstoppable - in fact I'm tryin got prove that Nara is actually subverting us. The math isn't quite there, but once I can prove 2+2 = 5... well its q.e.d. from there.



stupid nara

Pfft. We would have had the Aluminum regardless of Nara being there or not. Our culture is unstoppable - in fact I'm tryin got prove that Nara is actually subverting us. The math isn't quite there, but once I can prove 2+2 = 5... well its q.e.d. from there.



stupid nara

If it makes you feel better, Mansa pillaged Nara's fishing boats before I could save them and it's now starving.

It does. :D

I can prove 1+1 = 3 but the 2+2 = 5 could be hard :D

Anybody remember how close we are to the domination limit? Should I be razing all cities so we don't win by domination?

I can prove 1+1 = 3 but the 2+2 = 5 could be hard :D

Anybody remember how close we are to the domination limit? Should I be razing all cities so we don't win by domination?

Conquest Victory is the only type enabled, so we don't need to worry about accidental domination (I checked multiple times while playing).

I razed everything, though, because troops holding the cities can't take others. That being said, we have a lot of walking wounded; after Thebes/Kumbi fall, you might want to keep one or both to give our troops a place to heal (and as a staging area for Bombers)

(I checked multiple times while playing).

Just had to check if the game somehow re-enabled Domination during your turnset? :lol:

Just had to check if the game somehow re-enabled Domination during your turnset? :lol:

:blush:

You know, in case the patch changed something

Plus razing captured cities keeps our economy ticking. I'd only keep a city if it turned a net gain for us or was a necessary heal poit for our troops.

Quote:
(I checked multiple times while playing).

Just had to check if the game somehow re-enabled Domination during your turnset?

Or Chr could be like me and has a habit of checking the domination just to make sure you don't go over like I had to do in the last gotm since I didn't want to win by domination.

Anyways, here is my turnset. It took longer than I thought to play so this is going to be kind of short, sorry.

After looking around the battlefield, I decided to concentrate on Egypt first and deal with Mali later. In order for Mansa to not feel like he was missing the fun I decided to bomb some of his cities defenseless with the new bombers.

Turn 1: 1902 AD
Captured and kept Thebes. Thebes was a holy city and had the shrine. Also would be nice to take a little break to rest some units there.

Turn 3: 1906 AD
Captured and razed Giza.

Turn 7: 1914 AD
Captured and kept Elaphantine. It was by the coast so I figured it could be a good city to rush a transport and send some units to the islands.

Turn 9: 1918 AD
Captured and razed Alexandria. Captured and kept Kumbi Saleh. I kept Kumbi because it was in a good position to put the bombers in to effectively bomb 4 Mali cities close by.

After turn comments:
Well Egypt is out of the main continent. The next person might be able to take out Mansa from the main continent too. Might want to start getting ready for island invasion. I got a little group of ships and a transport by the American coast. The game is pretty much won just need to finish them off.

Here is the autolog:
Turn 320 (1900 AD)
Destroyer defeats (21.90/30): Malinese Transport
Nottingham finishes: Marine
London finishes: Bomber
Edo finishes: Bomber
Tokyo grows: 19
Tokyo finishes: Gunship
Osaka finishes: Bomber
Satsuma finishes: Marine
Atlanta finishes: Tank
New York finishes: Gunship
Miami finishes: Factory
Cincinnati's borders expand
Washington finishes: Airport
Philadelphia's borders expand
Infantry loses to: Malinese SAM Infantry (18.00/18)

Turn 321 (1902 AD)
Nottingham begins: Tank
London begins: Tank
Edo begins: Bomber
Tokyo begins: Infantry
Osaka begins: Marine
Satsuma begins: Bomber
Atlanta begins: Tank
New York begins: Gunship
Miami begins: Submarine
Washington begins: Fighter
Tank loses to: Egyptian Infantry (6.80/20)
Tank defeats (28.00/28): Egyptian Infantry
Tank defeats (23.80/28): Egyptian Infantry
Infantry defeats (14.00/20): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Gunship defeats (19.68/24): Egyptian Infantry
Hinduism has spread: Thebes (Egyptian Empire)
Christianity has spread: Thebes
Islam has spread: Thebes
Hinduism has spread: Thebes
Buddhism has spread: Thebes
Captured Thebes (Hatshepsut)
Infantry defeats (12.40/20): Malinese SAM Infantry
Rome finishes: Marine
Cumae finishes: Tank
London's borders expand
Kyoto finishes: Tank
Portland finishes: Tank
Baltimore finishes: Harbor
Washington grows: 14
San Francisco's borders expand
Chicago grows: 12
Chicago's borders expand
Gunship loses to: Egyptian Infantry (3.20/20)
Destroyer loses to: Malinese Battleship (40.00/40)
Infantry loses to: Malinese Infantry (15.20/20)

Turn 322 (1904 AD)
Rome begins: Marine
Cumae begins: Tank
Kyoto begins: Tank
Portland begins: Tank
Baltimore begins: Barracks
Infantry loses to: Malinese Infantry (10.80/20)
Gunship defeats (19.44/24): Malinese Infantry
Neapolis finishes: Tank
York finishes: Tank
Washington finishes: Fighter
Houston finishes: Factory
Infantry loses to: Egyptian Tank (1.40/28)
Destroyer loses to: Malinese Destroyer (12.00/30)
Transport loses to: Malinese Battleship (40.00/40)

Turn 323 (1906 AD)
Neapolis begins: Tank
York begins: Tank
Washington begins: Bomber
Houston begins: Forge
Tank defeats (14.56/28): Malinese SAM Infantry
Tank defeats (23.24/28): Malinese SAM Infantry
Razed Taodeni
Tank defeats (8.96/28): Egyptian Tank
Tank defeats (28.00/28): Egyptian Infantry
Tank defeats (19.04/28): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Tank defeats (4.48/28): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Infantry defeats (20.00/20): Egyptian Tank
Hinduism has spread: Giza (Egyptian Empire)
Buddhism has spread: Giza (Egyptian Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Giza
Buddhism has spread: Giza
Captured Giza (Hatshepsut)
Razed Giza
Hinduism has spread: Giza
Buddhism has spread: Giza
Giza lost
Cumae grows: 17
London finishes: Tank
Edo finishes: Bomber
Tokyo's borders expand
Tokyo finishes: Infantry
Osaka finishes: Marine
Satsuma finishes: Bomber
Nara finishes: Battleship
Atlanta grows: 16
New York finishes: Gunship
Philadelphia finishes: Airport
San Francisco finishes: Battleship
Chicago finishes: Factory
St. Louis finishes: Coal Plant
Battleship loses to: Malinese Battleship (40.00/40)

Turn 324 (1908 AD)
London begins: SAM Infantry
Edo begins: Bomber
Tokyo begins: Infantry
Osaka begins: Marine
Satsuma begins: Bomber
Nara begins: Destroyer
New York begins: Gunship
Philadelphia begins: Bomber
San Francisco begins: Destroyer
Chicago begins: Marine
St. Louis begins: Battleship
Rome finishes: Marine
Johannes Kepler (Great Scientist) born in Rome
Antium finishes: The Eiffel Tower
Cumae finishes: Tank
Nottingham finishes: Tank
Osaka grows: 20
Kyoto finishes: Tank
Atlanta finishes: Tank
Portland finishes: Tank
New York grows: 15
Baltimore grows: 8
Houston's borders expand
San Francisco grows: 9
San Francisco finishes: Destroyer
St. Louis finishes: Battleship
Battleship loses to: Malinese Battleship (40.00/40)

Turn 325 (1910 AD)
Rome begins: Marine
Antium begins: Tank
Cumae begins: Tank
Nottingham begins: Tank
Kyoto begins: Infantry
Atlanta begins: Tank
Portland begins: Artillery
San Francisco begins: Battleship
St. Louis begins: Transport
Battleship defeats (14.80/40): Malinese Battleship
Antium finishes: Tank
Neapolis finishes: Tank
York finishes: Tank
London finishes: SAM Infantry
Edo finishes: Bomber
Tokyo finishes: Infantry
Osaka finishes: Marine
Kyoto grows: 25
Boston finishes: Market
Cincinnati finishes: Factory
Washington finishes: Bomber
Philadelphia grows: 11
St. Louis finishes: Transport
Gunship defeats (2.88/24): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Gunship loses to: Egyptian SAM Infantry (18.00/18)
Battleship loses to: Malinese Destroyer (23.70/30)
Gunship loses to: Malinese Marine (19.20/24)

Turn 326 (1912 AD)
Antium begins: Tank
Neapolis begins: Tank
York begins: Tank
London begins: SAM Infantry
Edo begins: Bomber
Tokyo begins: Infantry
Osaka begins: Marine
Boston begins: Marine
Cincinnati begins: Tank
Washington begins: Marine
St. Louis begins: Battleship
Battleship defeats (9.60/40): Malinese Destroyer
Destroyer defeats (18.60/30): Malinese Destroyer
Rome finishes: Marine
Antium's borders expand
Antium finishes: Tank
Cumae finishes: Tank
London grows: 17
Satsuma finishes: Bomber
Kyoto's borders expand
Kyoto finishes: Infantry
Boston finishes: Marine
New York finishes: Gunship
Miami grows: 7
Washington grows: 15
Washington finishes: Marine
Philadelphia finishes: Bomber
Chicago finishes: Marine
St. Louis grows: 11

Turn 327 (1914 AD)
Rome begins: Bomber
Antium begins: Tank
Cumae begins: Bomber
Satsuma begins: Bomber
Kyoto begins: Infantry
Boston begins: Marine
New York begins: Gunship
Washington begins: Marine
Philadelphia begins: Bomber
Chicago begins: Marine
Tank defeats (19.04/28): Egyptian Infantry
Tank defeats (28.00/28): Egyptian Infantry
Tank defeats (23.52/28): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Tank defeats (19.60/28): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Hinduism has spread: Elephantine (Egyptian Empire)
Buddhism has spread: Elephantine (Egyptian Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Elephantine
Buddhism has spread: Elephantine
Captured Elephantine (Hatshepsut)
SAM Infantry promoted: Combat I
Antium finishes: Tank
Nottingham finishes: Tank
York finishes: Tank
London finishes: SAM Infantry
Edo finishes: Bomber
Osaka finishes: Marine
Portland finishes: Artillery
Boston grows: 18
San Francisco finishes: Battleship
Chicago grows: 13

Turn 328 (1916 AD)
Antium begins: Tank
Nottingham begins: Tank
York begins: Tank
London begins: Bomber
Edo begins: Bomber
Osaka begins: Bomber
Portland begins: Artillery
San Francisco begins: Battleship
Tank defeats (22.40/28): Egyptian Marine
Portland begins: Battleship
Rome finishes: Bomber
Antium finishes: Tank
Cumae finishes: Bomber
Neapolis finishes: Tank
Tokyo finishes: Infantry
Satsuma finishes: Bomber
Atlanta finishes: Tank
Portland finishes: Battleship
Miami finishes: Submarine
New Orleans finishes: Observatory
Washington finishes: Marine
Houston finishes: Forge
St. Louis finishes: Battleship
Detroit's borders expand

Turn 329 (1918 AD)
Rome begins: Bomber
Antium begins: Tank
Cumae begins: Bomber
Neapolis begins: Tank
Tokyo begins: Infantry
Satsuma begins: Bomber
Atlanta begins: Tank
Portland begins: Destroyer
Miami begins: Battleship
New Orleans begins: Confucian Temple
Washington begins: Marine
Houston begins: Marine
St. Louis begins: Transport
Tank defeats (27.44/28): Malinese Infantry
Tank defeats (28.00/28): Malinese Infantry
Tank defeats (16.24/28): Malinese Infantry
Tank defeats (24.08/28): Malinese Infantry
Tank defeats (24.64/28): Malinese Cavalry
Tank defeats (21.28/28): Malinese Infantry
Infantry defeats (7.20/20): Malinese Artillery
Infantry defeats (16.80/20): Malinese Artillery
Buddhism has spread: Kumbi Saleh (Malinese Empire)
Christianity has spread: Kumbi Saleh
Buddhism has spread: Kumbi Saleh
Captured Kumbi Saleh (Mansa Musa)
Gunship loses to: Egyptian Infantry (14.40/20)
Tank defeats (10.36/28): Egyptian Infantry
Tank loses to: Egyptian SAM Infantry (7.74/18)
Tank defeats (8.96/28): Egyptian Tank
Tank defeats (28.00/28): Egyptian SAM Infantry
Hinduism has spread: Alexandria (Egyptian Empire)
Buddhism has spread: Alexandria (Egyptian Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Alexandria
Buddhism has spread: Alexandria
Captured Alexandria (Hatshepsut)
Razed Alexandria
Hinduism has spread: Alexandria
Buddhism has spread: Alexandria
Alexandria lost
Antium grows: 19
Antium finishes: Tank
London finishes: Bomber
Edo finishes: Bomber
Osaka finishes: Bomber
Kyoto finishes: Infantry
New York finishes: Gunship
Miami finishes: Battleship
Chicago's borders expand
Thebes's borders expand
Submarine defeats (19.20/24): Malinese Destroyer

Turn 330 (1920 AD)
Antium begins: Tank
London begins: Tank
Edo begins: Bomber
Osaka begins: Bomber
Kyoto begins: Infantry
New York begins: Gunship
Miami begins: Destroyer
Thebes begins: Barracks
Gunship defeats (9.60/24): Malinese Marine


some screenshots:
125454
The capture of Alexandria

125455
The Mali battlefront

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The Egyptian wasteland (it was once a thriving civilization)

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

Great! EEktor gets a piece of revenge action!!!!

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

:woohoo: sweet revenge! :woohoo:

Hatty, Remember us? The one you hammered in VQ03?

Mansa, how does the inside of my tank's barrel look?

--

Good job, Eektor :thumbsup:

Although I still think you could've taken Kumbi the same turn you took Thebes

But, uh, great job! :D Hattie down to only one, Mansa should be easy pickings ... I hope Maquis gets one more shot at revenge!

Don't know that it will get back to me... but hey, that's fine!

Roster:

player 1: ChrTh --
player 2: eektor -- Just Played
player 3: bobrath -- UP!
player 4: GreyFox -- on deck
player 5: Maquis --

If the save gets to me, I'll pull a "ChrTh" on you, Maquis ... ;)

In case you are wondering what a "ChrTh" means, go see the last page of FFA01 :lol:

If the save gets to me, I'll pull a "ChrTh" on you, Maquis ... ;)

In case you are wondering what a "ChrTh" means, go see the last page of FFA01 :lol:

:lol: ... that may be harder to pull off with a Conquest victory rather than a Domination victory :devil:

... that may be harder to pull off with a Conquest victory rather than a Domination victory

I will simply ensure Maquis gets one more shot ... as you suggested earlier:


But, uh, great job! :D Hattie down to only one, Mansa should be easy pickings ... I hope Maquis gets one more shot at revenge!

But, its one and only one ... :p

-

I don't know, GreyFox, I think you're running the risk of every saying that you're not MAN enough to finish the job ... ;)

Well it really doesn't matter to me if it comes around to me. It felt pretty good wiping GW off the main continent, so I have had my taste of revenge. :thumbsup:

Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe GreyFox can leave me one of Hatty's cities....

One question... are we building Manhattan Project anywhere? I tried to leave a little hint at the end of my turnset about it when Fission came in...

Not that I am planning on using nukes... am I? :eek:

Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe GreyFox can leave me one of Hatty's cities....

One question... are we building Manhattan Project anywhere? I tried to leave a little hint at the end of my turnset about it when Fission came in...

Not that I am planning on using nukes... am I? :eek:

Meh, anyone can lob nukes at a city. Devising complex strategies involving Bombers, Gunships, Tanks, Artillery, and Infantry/Marines (screw SAMs, they suck) is where the real fun is! :goodjob:

...or to put it a different way, I didn't start building it.

Wait a minute, aren't we counting the chickens before they hatch? The save have not yet get to me!!! And it may not ...

Of course, Nukes would be ok if you did this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137243) with them ... :devil:

Of course, Nukes would be ok if you did this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137243) with them ... :devil:
OMFG:eek: :eek: :eek:

Of course, Nukes would be ok if you did this with them ...

Ok... if someone (bobrath!) builds Manhattan... I would love to end the game this way... :evil:

Wait.... why would I reward Greyfox with the project when he chose to keep that horrid city site?

Nah, I'll just do my best to wipe both civs off the map in my 10 turns and deny Grey the fun. Neener neener

I have a better idea for you: gift Nara to someone so that you can raze it all over ... :lol:

;)

Way ahead of you

Gift them Nara and then nuke it. Would that make you giggle? :lol:

Although I still think you could've taken Kumbi the same turn you took Thebes

Yeah I should have and I probably could have gone a little faster on the conquering. I ... uh ... wanted bobrath and hopefully GreyFox to have some fun before the game was done. :mischief:

I also goofed and let the transport you had get killed, which slowed us down to take the island cities. I also took a while to pillage the oil resources so Mali wouldn't make anymore destroyers and battleships which caused me trouble. I don't have much experience with modern warfare.

Oh and I think as this is a revenge game we should do the thing with the nukes on the last city. That would be really awesome. Remember to get some pics too. :D

Some Screenshots to whet your whistle:

It really happened (but we won):
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/5099/civ4screenshot00007cw.jpg

Heathen Gunship:
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7063/civ4screenshot00035xs.jpg

Last Land based surrender:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8605/civ4screenshot00062uq.jpg

Marines with special Water Shoes:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3599/civ4screenshot00077mp.jpg

The end of Mansa Musa (notice any other civ still alive?):
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8292/civ4screenshot00084fv.jpg




I've got two saves for you to chose from, Writeup coming later. ;) It does depend on which Save gets picked of course. (and yes I didn't take all 10 turns out of the goodness of my PFFFFT)

I'v always had a soft spot in my heart for Nara... It's not like it is a POS tundra village or anything... But I guess it's GreyFox's call, since he's up?? :)


And we have 15k gold on hand! :eek: :wow:

Wow, a fork in the SG :eek:

Can I play both ...? :)

Got it, see if I have time to play in office this evening ... home comp graphic card is balking ... refuse to run with 3D acceleration enabled. Stupid ATI!

-

We actually have 17.5k in the bank...Yeah, I didn't use the gold to finish production near as much as I could. Most of our cities were going wealth for production, but are now going research as I wanted to see if I could get a tech with 0% research... almost there on plastics!

Only exception to the larger cities going to Research would be Rome... which is fairly close to completing a certain "black ops" project. Just in case of course.

You can play both. One will be over in 1 turn, the other in 11 turns. ;)

the other in 11 turns.

Greyfox needs to play this one methinks...

:religion: :religion: :worship: :worship:

Greyfox needs to play this one methinks...

:religion: :religion: :worship: :worship:

Do you think we can trust Greyfox not to say "Just Press Enter"? ;)


I hate people who do that :mad: