Hello everyone, here is my first succession game, I would be playing V1.29f (Vanilla).
And here is the scenario:
Standard size map
Pangea with the least water coverage (is it 60%? - the version I have doesn't explicitly say)
Roaming barbs
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 5 billion - I don't like hills
Civ: Undecided
7 other civs (all random, and because Tupac wishes it to be so)
All victory types' boxes ticked
Accelerated production is a no no
and finally the difficulty: I am playing a regent game (my second ever, and I'm doing alright) I hope that by playing a succession game that I will learn from others playing it too and I am alright with trying my luck on Monarch. We'll have a vote or something when all the players are in.

The Roster:
Me
Tupaclives

Will be lurking, since my vanilla is not patched, and don't want to patch it for reasons... I could do PTW though.

I don't have PTW... Why don't you want to patch up your vanilla?

I'll play!!!!!

And I don't think you can have accelerated production in vanilla anyway...

Lets go with Japan!

Monarch sounds good.

I want in. Is China avaliable? Industrious, Militaristic, and Riders. We can farm Military Leaders for all them pretty wonders. I say go immediately for Iron Working and Mathematics, and just piss off the neighbors.

Yay, some people are in, I was starting to think that nobody would join...
Ok, as for the civ: As for Japan, I'm not too sure, I really like the industrious civs as the workers get everything done so much quicker. China seems like a good idea, but may I suggest France? The corruption difference is massive (they're commercial and industrious). What do you think?

Have you considered advertising here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=33851)? There could be people that subcribe to that thread but haven't seen your game yet?

Thanks for that Tone! I'll get right on it.

I don't have PTW... Why don't you want to patch up your vanilla?
I can't play vanilla anyway because I have conquest installed. I would deef play though.

Boooo to you.

Vanilla 1.29f? Hot diggity! Count me in! I play all my games on deity these days other than variants (like AW), but I'm more than happy to play at monarch.
Personally I'd fancy playing as a lesser civ but whatever you want is fine with me, and would favour having the regular 7 opposing civs. France happens to be my favourite civ and China was the first civ I played as in a SG so either works for me :D

Boooo to you.
That was rude. :D

I'll see. I'm gonna uninstall my conquests because it is THAT screwed up. I don't know I'll see.

Yay, with a little more persuasion, we could get conquer dude in on it too... (It wasn't meant to be rude, sorry) :D
Tupac - Nice, you could teach us a thing or two then.
Ok, I'm going to make the definitive decision on the civ and it is.... France! Duh duh!
Alright, I'll start rolling off some starts and uploading the saves - you could also do this too, may the best start win in the end. Heh heh.
I'm rolling these starts off at Monarch level by the way. I think that if Tupac helps us, we could all learn a lot and move on up to this level.

I might join.

Here's the first start I rolled off.

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/283/start14kx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the save:

And the 2nd:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4565/start24lm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the save:

The 3rd:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4691/start32hi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the save:

The 4th:

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6247/start47du.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the save:

hOLY ****! Those starts are all coolo!

That was rude. :D

I'll see. I'm gonna uninstall my conquests because it is THAT screwed up. I don't know I'll see.

You can play all games with C3C. I load vanilla games all the time, as long as they warn me they are C3. You should have an entry on the start menu for each version.

In my case C3 is under Infogrames or whatever the original publisher was. I have Atari for either PTW or C3C. The only thing I cannot address is if you need the original CD mounted. I do have to have it mounted for vanilla or the C3C CD for the other two.

Note you can even load C3 games with C3C, but once it is saved it will no longer work for vanilla.

If you still have space I'd like to join. Don't see a lot SGs for vanilla or PTW; in fact, see more for vanilla than PTW.

I jumped from Chieftain to Monarch and have one victory at Monarch. And since I started some SG's I have not had the time to play any solo games. Which is good; I think play better at SGs than solos because of the ten turn turnsets that force me to think and plan (and not just hit the space bar).

My SG's are at Monarch, Emperor and Diety, but none are complete.

You're in CommandoBob. And on that note, the roster has been filled. Sorry to anyone who felt they've missed out. But do watch this one!

Right then, down to business, I've rolled off some starts and am happy to do whatever really. However, if you can get a better one then I'd be more than happy to play that.

Not in, but vote for 4th start position.

Glad to join! This should be wild; one Brit, two Yanks, one Aussie and one undeclared.

I am in time zone GMT -6.

Do we have any thoughts on how we want to win?

I didn't realise where everyone was in the world, tee hee. Ok, I think number 2 is a good one because it's next to fresh water and has food bonuses. Therefore the capital could churn out settlers rather quickly, and we wouldn't need an aqueduct. However, the luxury does have a big impact on the state of affairs. I think we should have a vote (between the players - sorry Carmen510, but I'm not including yours) I vote for start number 2. Seeing as there are 5 people playing, I will wait until there are 3 votes for one, or wait until everyone has cast their vote. (Votes can change)
If anyone wants to roll off their own starts that are better than any of the ones that I've done they are more than welcome - we'll just have to put it to the vote. ;)

I favour the first start, at monarch we shouldnt have any difficulty keeping up with other civs in expansion even without a food bonus, and start 1 is the only one which looks like we could get some decent RCP with, the others are all half-rings at best due to the coast. Also it was the first start rolled up and it 'feels' better to just take the first start given.
Start 2 is nice but a bit 'too much of a good start'. OTOH it might be fun if anyone in the team has never used a 4-turn settler factory before.
3 & 4 are good in that they have luxs available for the capital immediately but at Monarch we get 2 content faces (so with 2 warrior MP thats size 5 before u need to use the lux slider or hook up a lux) so the luxs are less important. Also with start 1 I suspect that there would be luxuries somewhere nearby and probably some food bonuses nearby as well.

Have you done up a roster?

This is the kind of knowledge that I was expecting to learn, you've just demonstrated what I've been reinforcing. Yay. My vote's been changed... Didn't see that one coming. Could you explain about the 4 turn settler factory?

Could you explain about the 4 turn settler factory?

There's a very detailed explanation of it here (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/settler_factory.php).

Thanks for the article Sima :)

In the example of start 2 we would irrigate 1 wheat, mine the other, and mine the 4bg's (road everything as well obviously). At size 4.5 (with a granary) we start the settler.
2bg's + irrigated wheat + mined wheat gives +5fpt so growth in 1 (if at 4.5), +6spt so settler in 5, at the start of the cycle.
1 turn later on growth we are +5fpt still but are now at +8spt with 6 shields in the box (so 24 to go)
2 turns later we grow to size 6 with 1 turn left on the settler. We get the 1 turn of growth (to take us to size 4.5 when the size drops) and we have just built a settler in 4 turns. Then just rinse and repeat.

What kind of victory are we going for?

Woah! Keen are we? We havent even picked a start or worked out a roster yet! :lol:

Just a quick look at the start ups.

Save 1 Like tupaclives, I tend to take whatever start is given and begin from there. Since we are not England, boats are not our strength, so a coastal start is a waste. The extra commerce is nice but it does not make up for missing city sites. We have a good start place, fresh water is always nice, and two bonus grassland tiles help too. The river is running in three directions, so we have some prime real estate very close by. And three hills for lookouts. Plus, we are not that far north, so we can expand any direction we want.

Save 2 Hmm. Too many forests/jungles too close to our city; gotta spend early worker turns chopping wood and not making roads, building mines or playing with water. The lake/pond is nice but it only helps us and not the rest of our cities, unless that is another lake to the east. Three BG are good and the two wheats are not to be ignored And yet, somehow, I don’t like it. We have to expand northward to grow and meet people. I get the feeling that southwards will have more wet terrain, which will slow us down. This start reminds me of Britney Spears, just a pretty face with nothing to behind it.

Save 3 The Polar Express? Frigid Frenchies? Sniffling Snail Eaters? The fishing may be great in the river, but we are too far north and are forced to grow southwards. No thanks.

Save 4 The land mass is Pangea and we get a start on the coastline? And on a forest that gets wasted if we settle here? I would want to keep the forest to chop AND settle on the river, but that means two turns walking to get away from the coast. Also, judging from the mini-map, everything to the north is water, so again we are forced to grow southwards.

I vote for Save 1.

It lets us build and play with a settler factory to help us build. We will need some early defenders/explorers, since we will be in the middle of nowhere/everywhere.

Just a quick thoughts about how we want to win.

(As France, we are commercial and industrious. The Musketeer is our Secret Weapon.)

Earlier today I went to Google, typed in “French military victories” and, well, you can probably guess the rest.

I would like to refute the common perception that the only wars the French can win are when they fight the French.

I suggest that we, the glorious Frenchmen of Knickers, conquer the world! And then we can say, “I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.”

Start #2 is completely, absolutely, superior to Start #1 because of the complete ease of growth. I won't go through the individual statements, but Tupac and Bob's reasons for taking start #1 aren't great (I think it's just a pretty face with nothing to behind it, or Start 2 is nice but a bit too much of a good start.)

We have an excellent starting position in #2. From what we can see there, there is absolutely no reason to take start #1 over #2. Also, #1 is NOT a settler factory, like Bob says above. There's no food bonuses. It will be an abysmal factory.

So we have two votes for #1, and two for #2. Cody is tiebreaker.

Also, if we start #1, move worker south (2) and settle on spot if nothing important presents itself. If we start #2, mine worker and move settler east (5). The one time of 10 shields is no biggie, especially considering that it will take 5 turns to clear.

Some interesting points here... I've still not really grasped the concept of a settler factory, but I'm sure it will become clear as we get one set up and whatever. As for the roster I don't want to go first, if anything I'd like to be last. (I'd like to mention that the roster in the first post is in the order that we signed up to it, not the order we'll be playing in). Yeah, a conquest win sounds like a good idea, and doesn't that google french military victories search only work if you click I'm feeling lucky? Maybe I'm wrong.

I vote for #2

and doesn't that google french military victories search only work if you click I'm feeling lucky? Maybe I'm wrong.

Using "I'm feeling lucky" google will take you to albinoblacksheep.com, which has a google mockup (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html)that says defeats

Earlier today I went to Google, typed in “French military victories” and, well, you can probably guess the rest.

You got 4,200,000 search results and proceeded to google failure, which turns up the biography of George W Bush immediately?

If you don't understand the Settler Factory idea, read that article. In short, you need a city at size 4 or 5(with aqueduct/river/lake) that produces +5 food per turn, a decent amount of shields(I think +6), and a granary. If you have all these things, you can set your city to make a settler and it will produce a settler every 4 turns, the fastest possible in the early game.

Bah. Who goes? I figure we should settle on forest, move worker to the wheat that is in the borders, road/irrigate that, then road/mine the next wheat. Then road/mine nearby BGs. We should prebuild the granary with the Pyramids. Screw making warriors.

Earlier today I went to Google, typed in “French military victories” and, well, you can probably guess the rest.

You got 4,200,000 search results and proceeded to google failure, which turns up the biography of George W Bush immediately?
I should have added that I hit "I Feel Lucky".

but Tupac and Bob's reasons for taking start #1 aren't great (I think it's just a pretty face with nothing to behind it, or Start 2 is nice but a bit too much of a good start.)


Start too has nice growth but no river, hence no commerce bonus, starts on the coast, hence an incomplete ring, it also requires us to move (unless we want to waste a BG) whereas start 1 can settle on the spot. In addition start 1 has its main river headed in 3 directions, and if you look closer you can see the edge of another rive on the edge of the black. All that adds up to plenty of commerce, the lake in start 2 only benefits 1 city, a 3-direction river, and another river (dont no anything about that river though) adds up to a benefit for several cities.

Of course now that the votes have been cast the point is moot and I'm happy to play whichever start the team chooses.

Knickers could you please post a roster with the turn order?

I shall evaluate each one. (Might change mind about 4)

1.
Pros: Good river, extra commerce, few hills for more shields, and early forest.
Cons: Some plains, west looks mountainous, maybe jungle to south, and no coast/resources.
2.
Pros: Fresh Lake, two wheat, some forests for shields, and bonus grass.
Cons: No rivers, plains to north, lots of forests/jungles, and :confused:
3. Pros: Luxury, near coast, river, some forests, and great site for shields.
Cons: Tundra forcing to south, (though we in north so that might be good) lots of forest to east, and might be more hills to northeast.
4.
Pros: Luxury, next to river, next to coast, 2 bonus grass, and extra commerce.
Cons: West has mountains that may be continuos, have to expand south, and plain to northwest.
All are ok except 3.

I went ahead and did 10 turns. Here goes.
News: prebuilt Granary with Pyramid, Irrigated one wheat, moved onto and started mining another.

I'm not particularly bothered with the order everyone plays in, I'll go wherever, and I see Drakdan has gone first. So, who's next?

Alright I'll pick up the save here as I go away tomorrow.
Will play now.

Pre-Flight

We have no warriors... either for MP or exploration, nor do we have the silks connected meaning we are going to have to run lux slider before we have anything besides our worker, don't like that very much so I switch Paris to settler (would'v preffered warrior but that would waste shields and you cant afford to do that at the start).

IBT - worker finishes mining wheat

Turn 1 - send worker to silks.

IBT - paris gets culture expansion

Turn 2 - worker reaches silks

IBT - zzz

Turn 3 - worker starts roading silks (3 turns), cut science back to 50% and still get pot in 1, also at +3gpt.

IBT - pottery comes in, set to writing at min.

Turn 4 - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - Paris: Settler --> Warrior, have it use the mined wheat.

IBT - silks come on line

Turn 6 - With no idea of the surrounding terrain I have to gamble a bit so I send the settler north as I can see 3 BG's. Move worker toward BG.

IBT - zzz

Turn 7 - start roading BG

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 8 - Found Orleans: Warrior

IBT - worker finishes roading BG.

Turn 9 - worker starts mining BG.

IBT - Paris grows

Turn 10: Paris: Warrior --> Warrior. Send the first warrior exploring (will do the same with the 2nd.

IBT - zzz

Turn 11: zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 12 - Orleans: Warrior --> Worker. The warrior gets sent toward Paris for MP duty.

IBT - zzz

Turn 13 - Paris: Warrior --> Granary. The warrior heads off exploring toward the south.

IBT - zzz

Turn 14 - worker moves onto GL before the 3 BG's of Orleans

IBT - zzz

Turn 15 - worker starts roading

IBT - zzz

Turn 16 - zzz

IBT - worker finishes roading

Turn 17 - Orleans: Worker --> Warrior

IBT - zzz

Turn 18 - Both the Orleans worker and our starting worker move onto the same BG square.

IBT - zzz

Turn 19 - Orleans and Paris are now connected.

IBT - zzz

Turn 20 - just exploring. See a goody hut. We have plenty of silks (prob the world supply).

Post Turn Notes

Our Granary in Paris is due in 6 with no growth. At max growth we can have it in 11 and growth in 2. We could probably do that (switch the unroaded forest to irrigated wheat and silk forest to mined wheat) if we then switch the tiles to max production after that. With 1 mp and 1 lux we can get away with up to size 5 before we need to use the lux slider, but if we decide to let it grow to size 4 before the granary finishes then make sure it doesnt grow to 5 before the granary finishes.
I assume we are using RCP for city placement, if we are wrong then feel free to whip a settler to move Orleans.
If we are using RCP, I've put down Orleans at RCP 4 (well 4.5 but it rounds off) so heres a dotmap keeping that rank.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6371/picture55hr.jpg

(numbers are my recommended order of settling)
Dots 2 and 3 have some coastal overlap but only 1 or 2 tiles which shouldnt be a problem till sanitation (and i doubt it will take that long to win).
Dot 5 is at ICS with dot 3 but is at RCP 7 (which i would recommend) and can use those coastal tiles that Dot 3 couldnt properly use otherwise, but also has enough plains and so forth to be useful as more than just a fishing village.
Dot 4 is on a BG and that bothers me but I thought a lot about it and the loss of one shield is more than countered by greater long term productivity.
Dot 1 can use the undeveloped BG for a little while (until Paris needs it) and so can get a warrior (MP) and a worker in 10.
More exploration north of Orleans could also reveal some good land so dont worry too much about the order of settling if there is some good land up there as it might be best to grab it before anyone else does.


And of course the save.

So that makes a roster of

drakdan
tupaclives - just played
Knickers/CommandoBob/CodytheGenius - On Deck

@Knickers, what I do when I dont no how I want the roster to be is just draw names out of a hat. That way theres no worries. I'd also suggest we all play 20 turns in the first round (I did though I notice drakdan only did 10... you should make a decision on how many turns we should each play) then 10 after that.

I am a pretentious, overbearing ass who can not tell the difference between 20 and 26. Ignore me, as doing otherwise may be detrimental to your health.

Not at all, I was probably a little confrontational in my response as well. Apologies for that.
If you really want the granary straight away then I would offer, feel free to play an additional 30 turns from your first posted save (i find 40 turns is the best way to actually perform an opening for the game) and I'll pick up after that.
Glad to see we managed to sort everything out :)
and we did it without clogging up the thread with multiple posts :lol:

Hey, tupac, I like your dot map. But the numbers, being black, are hard to read.

What I use (and I am curious about how you do this) is get a four step process:

screenshot (ALT + Printscreen)
paste into MS Paint and save as 250BC_Rome.jpg
open with Adobe PhotoDeluxe Home Edition 4.0 (a freebie we got somewhere, I think) and trim the image to the second largest allowed size in landscape and save as 250BC_RomeTrimmed.jpg
Open the last save with MS Paint and add text, dots, lines, etc and then save as 250BC_RomeTrimmedDotted.jpg


How do you do this?

Well as I'm on a mac (and one with VERY dodgy software, i mean its running i-Photo 1.2 when there is like version 7 out now or something), so what I do while ingame I hit applecommand+ctrl+3 (thats makes a picture of the current screen) then open it with picture viewer copy the picture. Post it into MS Word, draw all the lines and everything, then go command+ctrl+3 again, open the picture with picture viewer. Export it as a .jpeg (as screen captures are .pdf on macs) open it with the freeware program Goldberg 2.5, crop all the MS Word things out (like the toolbars) then save it and upload it to image shack.

The start is looking mighty fine. Good job so far. I don't think we should go back and let Drakdan play 40 turns (nothing personal) because it's just a waste of time I think. As for the turn amounts, at what date/turn number would you suggest we stop playing 20 turns and start on 10? If that is what you were suggesting...

What I mean is have everyone play 20 turns the first time they pick up the game (as the early game tends to play very very quickly) then once turns start taking some involvment drop back to 10 turns.

For the next player some notes I forgot to pass on about the granary, the workers should finish their mine at the end of next turn. But it involves 1 wasted worker turn, so at the start of NEXT turn pull one of the workers off the mining and send him to the roaded silk forest to start the granary chop, also, set Paris to work the two wheat tiles.

just a suggestion.

So whose up Knickers?

drakdan
tupaclives
???

Whoever wants to go next can... I don't really want to though. Ok, so is Paris going to become our settler factory?

Most definately, its the one with the wheat, its the one thats getting a granary now. If you don't want to play next then may I be so bold as to propose a roster?

drakdan
tupaclives - just played
CommandoBob - UP
Knickers - On Deck
CodytheGenius - havent heard anything from for a while (MIA?)

Most definately, its the one with the wheat, its the one thats getting a granary now. If you don't want to play next then may I be so bold as to propose a roster?

drakdan
tupaclives - just played
CommandoBob - UP
Knickers - On Deck
CodytheGenius - havent heard anything from for a while (MIA?)
Roster looks fine to me.
I will most likely play 10 turns and post (feedback) and then 10 turns and post. I don't think I will get time to play 20 turns at once. Not if I play and document.

(At work and gameless)
In new cities I like to first build a worker, but this is not a given, just a first preference.

We have two warriors out being nosy, one on MP duty and one being built in Orleans. Cannot remember the plans, but may let Orleans crank out warriors for a bit, build barracks and make veteran warriors. This is at 'idea' stage for Orleans, and may not be the best thing to do.

My desire would be to build Ring 1 as quick as possible, going light on defense until we meet our neighbors and determine how grouchy they are.

Considering using our worker near Orleans to begin the road to city #1 and have that worker focus on connecting our cities. This would give a little bit more commerce which would help our science some. But I am open to suggestions.

I keep forgetting that we are Industrious and roading and improving will be much faster.

What is our next science?

Nope, I'm not MIA! The roster order looks good, I'll go after CommandoBob and Knickers.

At work and gameless)
In new cities I like to first build a worker, but this is not a given, just a first preference

Depends on the shields, Orleans is producing 2 spt (3 when the mine is finished) which means a worker (or warrior) in 5 but growth in 10. Its best on warrior/worker cycle. Or it could do 2 warriors - settler.

We have two warriors out being nosy, one on MP duty and one being built in Orleans. Cannot remember the plans, but may let Orleans crank out warriors for a bit, build barracks and make veteran warriors. This is at 'idea' stage for Orleans, and may not be the best thing to do.

I'd either opt for rax - settler then spit out warriors (after present warrior) or warrior - warrior - settler - rax - spit warriors.

Considering using our worker near Orleans to begin the road to city #1 and have that worker focus on connecting our cities. This would give a little bit more commerce which would help our science some. But I am open to suggestions.

Right now we are running min science, commerce is not super important IMO, what is important? Getting that granary chop! Read my earlier comments about chopping the silk forest, then have each of the workers start to mine 1 bg (not road then mine, mine first). This is to try and get the settler factory up asap.

What is our next science?

We are on a min run on writing atm, we dont get a free tech for philo in vanilla but do we still want to beeline for Republic?

End of Previous Turnset Stats:

Science: Writing, 24 turns
Treasury: 92 gold, +8 gpt, 9.1.0
Cities:

Paris (3), zero growth, granary in 6.
Orleans (1), grows in 8, rWarrior in 3.

Military:

workers 002,
warriors 003, 001 in production

Build List:

granary [1] (Paris)
rWarrior [1] (Orleans)




Allowed units 8; current units 5

Did not realize how far south we are.
MM Paris as tupac suggested, now grows in 11, granary in 11 (but will have help)

[I] 01 2550 BC

North warrior pops the hut and the Celts give us a cWarrior. Move to hill.
South warrior west to examine a potential choke point; turns out to be coastline.




[I] 02 2510 BC

Mine completes; automove workers to roaded silk forest.
North warriors head north and meet guy in white underwear, not pink; south warrior heads south to see more coast.


Barb dies.
Orleans, rWarrior -> rax, 14 turns.

[I] 03 2470 BC

Exploring.
Warrior in Orleans to exlplore south.
Workers begin the forest chop for granary.


Another white unit appears in the north.

[I] 04 2430 BC

We attack, win and promote. We now have a vWarrior.



[I] 05 2390 BC

Exploring. Land will run out south of us.


Paris granary -> rWarrior, 3 turns.

[I] 06 2350 BC

Workers sent to mine a BG each.
See another goody hut north.
South exploration is over.



[I] 07 2310 BC

According to MapStat, Paris is cranky at size 5.
Workers start mining.
Goody hut up north gives us a settler.
Save game for discussion.
**** Still need to fix Paris ****


And the save is >>HERE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Knick01_2310BC.SAV).

In this turn, 2310 BC, which is still in progress, we popped a goody hut and got a settler. This is good news, except that this settler is too far away to build a city where it is.

Here is the screen shot:

Goody Hut Settler 2310 BC
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/2310BC_SettlerTrimmedDotted.jpg

The yellow line is the path, the green numbers are city locations from tupac’s dotmap and the small red dots indicate two turns of travel. City site 4 is off the map.

My first thought is to treat the Goody Hut Settler as the settler for city 1 and send him there. The first settler from Paris goes to city site 2 and we continue from that point. But this seems wasteful of turns.

Or we could make a city where we are at now.

What do we want to do with this gift?

I think we should send it to #5 or #3 because say if we sent it to #1, it's going to have lost 5 turns worth of production - that's 1 warrior depending on the shield production.

Go to #3!!

I like 3 too. I prefer close spacing. 5 is too far for comfort.

Save game for discussion.
**** Still need to fix Paris ****
Cody and drakdan vote for city site 3 for the new settler. On its way.
Move the happy slider to 20% to keep Paris happy (and not waste a citizen).

Paris warrior -> settler, 5 turns.

[I] 08 2270 BC

South warriors head north.
Find a barb camp.
New warrior from Paris heads north.



[I] 09 2230 BC

vWarrior attacks Barb camp, wins, promotes and gets 25 gold.


We select the lawn of our palace..


[I] 10 2190 BC

Paris grows to size 6 and is cranky. Move a warrior in and drop happy down to 10%.
Mines completed, the workers make roads




[I] 11 2150 BC

zzz


Paris settler -> settler, 5 turns.

[I] 12 2110 BC

Settler heads to city site 1.
Worker begins road to that city site.
Other worker begins road to city site 3.
Goody Hut Settler on city site 3.



[I] 13 2070 BC

Lyons is built on city site 3, grows in 10, worker in 10.
Settler from Paris arrives at city site 1.
Put a warrior on the coastal hill west of Paris.



[I] 14 2030 BC

Rheims is built at city site 1, grows in 10, worker in 10.
Northern warriors discover we are on an island.



[I] 15 1990 BC

Road to Lyons complete, this worker begins road to city site 2.
Road to Rheims complete, this worker begins road to city site 4.



Paris settler -> settler, 5 turns.
[I] 16 1950 BC

Settler heads to city site 2.



[I] 17 1910 BC

Settler arrives at city site 2.



[I] 18 1870 BC

Tours built on city site 2, grows in 10, worker in 10.



[I] 19 1830 BC

zzz


Paris settler -> settler, 5 turns.

[I] 20 1790 BC

Settler from Paris heads south to city site 4.

[IBT]

End of Turnset 003 Stats:

Science: Writing, 4 turns
Treasury: 309gold, +11 gpt, 8.1.1
Cities:

Paris (4) grows in, settler in 5.
Orleans (3) grows in 8, vWarrior in 1. (need for MP)
Lyons (1) grows in 3, worker in 3.
Rheims (1) grows in 4, worker in 4.
Tours (1) grows in 8, worker in 8.

Military:

settlers 001, 001 in production.
workers 002, 003 in production.
warriors 006, 001 in production

Build List:

settler [1] (Paris)
vWarrior [1] (Orleans)
worker [3] (Lyons, Rheims and Tours)

And the save is >>HERE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Knick01_1790BC.SAV).

The biggest news is that we are on an island. Rather a medium sized island at that. Which means we need a navy, at least for a while, until we move our core to another place. It also seems that Map Making will be our next tech.

The Settler factory is up and running. Our fourth new city will be built soon south of Paris.

As for any more new cities, well, they won’t be as good as our first one. Just look at the newly discovered terrain.

The North of France 1790 BC
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/1790BC_FranceNorthTrimmedDotted.jpg

This land features a nice large desert, some plains and grasslands, some jungle on the far north end and no rivers. It is close to another landmass, with three coastal tiles that touch this other land (the Shallows).

The big question is how to best develop this less than lovely terrain.

In the south things are better.

The South of France 1790 AD
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/1790BC_FranceSouthTrimmedDotted.jpg

We have added three cities and one more will soon be built. We have three workers on order, which we can use to improve our land quickly. The city sites are in yellow numbers; the green lines are suggested roads that will connect the outer cities with each other.

The lone warrior is headed south to look across the ocean where it has not been looked at before. Futile, probably, but could be interesting.

less than lovely terrain

Well, once in Republic will all those plains irrigated doesent sound bad, does it?;)

I hate desert so much. It's almost worse than jungle.

Damn, it's going to take ages to get that desert irrigated from that fresh water supply next to Paris.
I'm still not grasping the whole settler factory idea. Paris is going to produce a settler in 5 turns and is going to grow in 2 turns. Does that mean that it will grow in 3 turns next?? If you see what I mean.
Whose idea was it to play the first start eh?!

I'm still not grasping the whole settler factory idea. Paris is going to produce a settler in 5 turns and is going to grow in 2 turns. Does that mean that it will grow in 3 turns next??

Take the very first save game we posted. Build a Granary, get to size 4. Work your times properly, so that you've mined 3-4 Bonus Grasslands, 1 Wheat, and Irrigated 1 wheat. If done properly you will have +5 food per turn. That is what you need.

Once you have it set up as so it should make itself clear. By monitoring your growth so you don't go into disorder, and down drop to +4 food per turn, you will make a settler factory.

Here, I attached a save file from the start of a 4 turn cycle.

Ok, so, I'm only going to do 10 turns....
What does IBT mean by the way?

1 1750 BC
Orleans: Warrior > Warrior. He can just fortify on the spot. I send a warrior I found on Paris over to Tours. Settler gets sent to #5. Send worker to mine a tile in Rheims.

2 1725 BC
Mars gets built (yeah, I renamed it, as I'm not French and I know I'll miss-spell it every time).
Mars: > Warrior.
I try to complete CommandoBob's road picture.

3 1700 BC
Lyons: Worker > Worker

4 1675 BC
We learn how to write > now we will make some maps in 19 turns at a loss of 2 GPT. The lux slider has been reduced back down to 0 as there are only 4 citizens in Paris.
Paris: Settler > Settler.
Rheims: Worker > Rax (20 turns). - Hmmm...
Settler gets sent to #5.

5 1650 BC
ZZzzz....

6 1625 BC
Lux back up to 10% as Paris grows again. Map making in 17 - Partay.

7 1600 BC
Marseilles founded (did I spell that right?)
Marseilles: I don't quite know what to do with, so I start to pre build the palace in hope that you will suggest some stuff.

8 1575 BC
Orleans: Warrior > Warrior.
Tours: Worker > Rax.
Paris: Settler > Settler. I send the settler south to settle on a tundra. No, I'm not mad.
The lux slider comes back down for 2 turns and we'll have map making in 14 turns at a loss of 2 GPT.

9 1550 BC
Zzzzzzzzzzzz...

10 1525 BC
Orleans: Warrior > Warrior.
Paris: Grows.
Lux slider: back up to 10%.
Tech slider: back down to 90%. Map Making in 11 turns. Woo.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5105/game6af.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The settle at the bottom of the screen needs to go 1 square/tile south to where I originally sent him.

What does IBT mean by the way?
In Between Turn or In Between Time; when the AI moves and things get built.

Marseilles: I don't quite know what to do with, so I start to pre build the palace in hope that you will suggest some stuff.
Barracks or harbor come to mind; probably barracks; one (any?) of the three other coastal cities will build boats faster than Marseilles.

The settle at the bottom of the screen needs to go 1 square/tile south to where I originally sent him.
Okay, but why? :confused:
A slightly better place might be on the hill on the west end of France. That gives us visibilty at sea and the last of the silks is ours. That would give us three or four silks for trading. But cannot tell how far from their to Paris, which would affect its corruption, along with Marseilles.

We are going to need to irriagate from Paris around to Tours to get our plains up to speed.

If the worker south of Tours is working on a road, it might be better to have him stop, chop the forest to add to the barracks and then resume the road. Depends on how long he has been working.

Alright, I suppose it's my turn. Please forgive me if I do anything stupid :) Also, since I don't really know what I'm doing on this game (I also have a lot of things to do here at home) so I'm going to only play 5 turns.

Turn 1 - 1500 BC: Chartres is settled... also I do some irrigating by France.

Turn 2 - 1475 BC: A settler is built.

Turn 3 - 1450 BC: Couple of warriors and a worker built.

Turn 4 - 1425 BC: Nothing

Turn 5 - 1400 BC: Avignon is built.

got it, will play asap. Will post turnset here.
No I don't. Your savefile seems to be corrupted. If someone else can get it working by all means go for it.

got it, will play asap. Will post turnset here.
No I don't. Your savefile seems to be corrupted. If someone else can get it working by all means go for it.
The save is not corrupt; it is a PTW save file, not a vanilla save file.

What I have done (because I am not always careful) is have two shortcuts to Civ on my desktop. One is vanilla, the other PTW.

PTW can open a vanilla save, but when PTW saves the game it does something different from vanilla in making the save and so vaniila cannot read PTW saves. The same is true for C3C; it can open both but only saves to C3C.

The vanilla exe, Civilization3.exe, is located in Atari/Civilization III. The PTW exe, Civilization3X.exe, is located in Atari/Civilization III/Civ3PTW.

The turns will need to be replayed.

Oh, crap, seriously?

Someone else is going to have to do it at the moment then, because I'm not sure where my Vanilla disc is.

My bad. Sorry about that :blush:

Someone else is going to have to do it at the moment then, because I'm not sure where my Vanilla disc is.
Maybe not; I only use Disc 1 to play both Vanilla and PTW.

Turn 1: Nothing major, just moving workers.
Turn 2: Chartres founded.
Turn 3: Settler produced. Sent north.
Turn 4: Worker moves.
Turn 5: More Moves
Turn 6: Avignon founded
Turn 7: Blah
Turn 8: Blah
Turn 9:Blah
Turn 10: Map Making in 1 turn. I've already adjusted the slider. We can see Egypt up north. Overall, this turnset was a snore. I made units and waited for Map Making.

Nice one Drakdan, Tupac: you're up.

Righteo, just got back and have an update for Montupac's Tight Squeeze, and am up for Tupac03 so this will have to wait a little more, if its too much hassle then, CommandoBob do you want to do a swap and I'
ll play after you?

Pre-Flight

Go to Orleans and move one of its warriors out and send it to Paris, who is switched back to Settler production. I agree we need more workers though so I set Tours and Rheims to worker production.

IBT - Map Making comes in, set research to maths at 0.9.1 due in 9. Scroll ahead to start Orleans on the Great Lighthouse

Turn 1 - Switch Mars from rax to galley, start an irrigation path towards our plains in the north & south.

IBT - zzz

Turn 2 - Start roads toward Avignon and Marsielles.

IBT - zzz

Turn 3 - start irrigation at north and south, start re-mining the irrigation path.

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 - Paris: Settler--> Settler, Lyons: Rax --> Settler, Rheims: Worker --> Worker, Tours: Worker --> Warrior
Worker moves etc.
Kill a barb in the north, send the settler south.

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - Mars: Galley --> Galley, send the galley norht to make contact with the zulu to our north via the island to our west.

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 - The island to our west looks good, grasslands, choppables and a grass cow. Will send a settler there for sure.

IBT - zzz

Turn 7 - our galley rejoins the sea-route north. Found Besancon --> worker.

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 - Paris: Settler --> Settler, Tours: Warrior --> Worker, Rheims: Worker --> Warrior.
galley keeps going north.

IBT - zzz

Turn 9 - Maths due in 1 so cut science back 10%.

IBT - Maths comes in, set research to currency at 9.1.1 due in 40 @ +22gpt (can be changed prior to next players interturn if desired)

Turn 10 - our galley heading north makes contact with Zululand

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8477/picture38de.jpg

Zululand is up Contact with Persia, BW, CB, the Wheel, WC and Philo. We are up maths and map making.

Want max value for our techs so I decide to buy contact with persia.

Zulu: 288gp + WM + 2gpt for Contact w Persia + TM.

Persia is up BW, WC, CB and The Wheel
We are up Alphabet plus all techs after.

Start by selling Alphabet to Persia

Persia: Alphabet + WM for The Wheel + TM + 21gp.
Then decide to sell Writing to them.
Persia: Writing + 21gp + 1gpt for Warrior Code + Ceremonial Burial + Bronze Working

Persia now has HBR, Mysticism and IW visible.

Zulu has the same but is up Philo, they have a monopoly on it but we have monopoly on MM and maths.

Zulu: Maths for Philo + 44gp
Persia: Maths + Philo for Iron Working + Mysticism + 28gp.
Zulu: 65gp + 1gpt + WM for Horseback Riding.

So we are now at parity but we get to keep a Map Making monopoly :D.

Summary of Trades
Spent:
297gold,
our World Map (basicly just our TM neway),
4gpt
and our monopoly on maths.

Got:
Bronze Working,
Warrior Code,
Ceremonial Burial,
The Wheel,
Iron Working
Mysticism
Horseback Riding
Philosophy[/b]

Not too bad me thinks.

Now that the trading is concluded I set research to 3.6.1 to have Currency in 23 @ -1gpt.
Some worker moves.

NOTES FOR NEXT PLAYER:
Orleans should have its extra citizen assigned to work the unroaded forest upon growth as it can't grow anymore without a 'duct and the extra 2spt will take it over the 10spt barrier finishing in around 22 turns. Of course we can change it to another wonder if we want. The pyramids are still up for grabs, but on an island that mightnt be that great, or the Great Library but I absolutely think we don't need or want it. The fact that we are on an island is what makes the great Lighthouse attractive to me. I didn't cancel the prebuild in Marsielle's so it could be anything really.
We have 2 sources of iron on our island but no horses. Zululand and Persia both have iron in their territory and horses in both too I think. We'll need to trade for horses and depending on how many persia and zululand get could make the Great Lighthouse even better, as it would allow lux and resource trading (potentially) with other civs prior to astronomy (not talking about Zululand or Persia here).
We have 12 workers (24 reg civ workers) for 10 cities and we have a settler down south ready to found a city next turn. (its at RCP 7, for our 2nd ring atm).
We want to fill up the north quickly though.
The island to our west turns out to be the same continent as the zulu are on and persia is that direction (though a good many turns of galley travel away so I stick by buying contact with persia). If we get a spare settler send it to the plain grassland tile 1S of the BG as that is RCP 7 to Paris or the forest tile between the BG and the cow (also RCP 7) as that has the BG AND the cow... actually yeah, send the settler there :D

We will maintain a Map Making monopoly for a little while but no idea how long for, until we fill up our island we do not want to trade it away :nono: no sir-ee!

Oh well can't think of anything else so good luck!

Roster

drakdan
tupaclives - just played
CommandoBob - UP
Knickers - On deck
CodytheGenius - has personal problems with vanilla ;)

and the Save

Roster

drakdan
tupaclives - just played
CommandoBob - UP
Knickers - On deck
CodytheGenius - has personal problems with vanilla ;)


I won't be able to play until next week; 30 year High School Reunion this weekend.
Please skip me this turnset.

Nice trading Tupac! I'll play the next turnset soon enough, but, could you tell me what a monopoly is?? I can guess what it is, but it'd probably be wrong...
We need to get a foothold on their island as soon as possible really. How many galleys do we have? Is it 2, or 1? I think the next one we make should take a spear (thanks to warrior code iirc) and a settler and just head west.

Monopoly is basically owning all of one thing. If you are the only one that knows a tech, that is a mononploy. For the jokers, yes monopoly is also a game.

If you have all the iron or dyes, that would be a monopoly and means you have an advantage in pricing it.

Ah, cheers for that, I thought it could have been something along those lines but I wasn't sure.

Yep, so in this case when I say we have a monopoly on Map Making, we are the only civ (that we know of) who has map making, and thus the tech is of greater trading value. But as we are at parity and havent filled our own island yet, we want to keep it a secret as long as possible.

Turn 1: I kill that barbarian and take 25 gold, send the galley south to explore.

Turn 2: Rouen founded and gets to work on a harbour. And a bunch of roading.

Turn 3: Send a settler up north in an attempt to get the lux up there.

Turn 4: Chatres gets started on a temple so that the borders down there expand and fill the few squares when another civ could settle. A bit more land is found. (2 tiles worth of land)

Turn 5: Another settle is produced, sent up north too.

Turn 6: Nothing much happens.

Turn 7: Nothing much...

Turn 8: Settler produced and is sent south to Mars which is producing a galley next turn (now we will place our foothold on another continent). Besancon gets started on a harbour. Dijon and Grenoble are founded and both start work on a temple (I'm not sure what to do here, the two cities are pretty corrupt...)

Turn 9: A Regular warrior and a settler jump into a new ocean liner and head for new grounds (the forest 1 tile south of the cow)

Turn 10: Nothing much happens apart from our northbound galley seeing a red ish border...

And the save:

I've just realised the date of that save... Er, I'm not quite sure what happened, did I play 10 turns? I'm confused...

:bump: so whose up?

Me, since Cody hasn't posted saying his Vanilla Disc is down. CommandoBob is also up since he skipped his last turn. Either of those two grabbing it would be good, but since the order is all screwy, we should post an I Got it post, and edit it later.

Pre-Turn: Nothing much. I change spearmen builds to catapults. Spearmen are pretty useless, and in my games I can get by with building at most 10 units from their upgrade tree.

Turn 800: Meet Rome. I trade Contact with Indians/Japanese and a Territory map for Contact with Zulu/Persions and 1 gold. Rome is right next to the Zulu, so I'm amazed he doesn't have these yet. Japan gets Mathematics for World Map, Territory Map, and 87 Gold. Also gets Philosophy for Polytheism, 4 Gold. I Declare War on Japan. I establish Embassies in Zululand and India. I get India to ally against Japan, give up 10 gold, and his maps in exchange for ally and Mathematics. Trade World Map with Persia for World Map and 117 Gold. Trade World Map with Zulu for World Map and 90 Gold I Embassy Rome/Persia. Trade Map back to Persia for 27 Gold, then declare war. I give Rome everything to declare. Zulu declare for a world map (Worth 1 gold!). All in all everything has turned out quite nicely. Persia has 3 cities on the water that MIGHT Produce a galley, but they are all size 1. Japan has no cities on water.Currency in 8.

Turn 775: The people admire my achievements. O haha! I Chop for a temple near avignon so the culture can eventually take up the Iron. Now I see why Rome and Zulu have no communications. This also makes the declaration I paid for nearly worthless. Dammit. They are on different continents. Damn. I can also see the culture border of another civ on the opposite side of the map. Settler produced, I plan to plop him down on the dyes near the Zulu. Granted, the Zulu will probably destroy it, but not for the moment.

Turn 750: Nothing much. Just travel and worker moves.

Turn 730: Nothing much.

Turn 710: Nothing much.

Turn 690: Nothing Much

Turn 670: Nothing Much Currency in 1.

Turn 650: Currency taken. We are close to the light blue border.

Turn 630: Meet China, Trade Horseback Riding, Philosophy, and Polytheism for 127 Gold and a World/Territory Map. The 8th Civ is off on his own little continent. I switch most of our towns to Marketplaces, since they aren't producing anything useful. We need to raise Paris back up to pop 5. A forest chop screwed up the 2-turn worker momentum I had set up earlier.

Turn 610: Cherbourg founded on dyes by Zulu. Game Saved.

All of our cities except 3 are size 2 and below. All have wretched production values. We need this fixed asap. I say we throw down another 3 cities on our island, and then set the capital to making workers so we can boost neighboring cities. Also, like I said, most cities have been set to make marketplace, but most won't get a market for 30 turns. Any idea what to do with these nasty cities?

Nice nice, is it CommandoBob next?

I will post a "Get" when I get home. I am gameless here at work during lunch but from reading the logs it looks like we've got our work cut out for us to conquer the world.

Just downloaded the save; too late to play tonight; will look at it tommorrow.

(Played turns in Tupac03, which is why I was not able to get to this earlier.)

Actually I made a point of only declaring on people who couldn't get to us. Persia can reach our new little towns, but I think we can manage to hold down the fort on those spots. The point of declaring war was to get the other civs to wear themselves down with war production. It's a fantastic little trick, and it will usually allow you to get into enough of a lead to take as many wonders as you want to.

End of Previous Turnset Stats:

Science: Literature, 8 turns
Treasury: 271gold, +0 gpt, 2.7.1
Cities:

Paris (4) grows in 2, galley in 2
Orleans (6) zero growth, Great Lighthouse in 4
Lyons (2) grows in 5, market in 29
Rheims (3) grows in 6, market in 20
Tours (3) grows in 10, market in 23
Mars (4) grows in 2, market in 14
Marseilles (4) grows in 10, market in 6
Chartres (2) grows in 3, market in 20
Avignon (3) grows in 18, market in 44
Besancon (2) grows in 8, harbor in 28
Rouen (2) grows in 2, market in 17
Grenoble (2) grows in 8, temple in 48
Dijon (2) zero growth, temple in 48
Amiens (2) grows in 9, barracks in 15
Cherbourg (1) grows in 20, rArcher in 20

Military:

workers 018
warriors 019
spearman 003
archers 000, 001 in production
catapults 002
galleys 004, 001 in production

Build List:

galley [1] (Paris)
Great Lighthouse [1] (Orleans)
market [8] (Lyons, Rheims, Tours, Mars, Marseilles, Chartres, Avignon and Rouen)
harbor [1] (Besancon)
temple [2] (Grenoble and Dijon)
barracks [1] (Amiens)
rArcher [1] (Cherbourg)

Allowed units 60; current units 46
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

Long Term
Conquer the world for France!

Mid Term
Populate the north of our island (3 cities) to support Cherbourg from the Zulu.
Populate the east shore of Lake France (2 or 3 cities) to keep the Zulu and Persians away and to give a place to launch our attack on them.

Short Term
Iron will connect this turnset, due to culture expansion.
We have lots of markets in the pipeline and only one luxury.
We have a monopoly on Currency; four civs know Code of Law and one (Persia) knows Construction. We are at war with Persia.
May try to make peace with Persia to get Construction. Then we could build aqueducts for growth.
Could bankrupt the other three civs for Currency; they don’t need that excess gold.
We have fifteen cities; Persia is in second place with twelve.
Need a settler pump.

Early France
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/610BC_LakeFranceTrimmedDotted.jpg
I think this is where we need to have expanded to before we get serious about conquering the world, or at least this part of it.

Cherbourg and North France 610 BC http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/610BC_CherbourgTrimmedDotted.jpg
The order is not too important, but I think we need some cities to the north to fill the land and be close to Cherbourg. Blue Dot is only two moves away Cherbourg.

Amiens and East France 610 BC http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/610BC_AmiensTrimmedDotted.jpg
Not really sure if these are the best city sites or not. Basic idea is to get a border established. Don’t see any rivers to help us grow.

Paris galley -> settler, 2 turns.
MM Orleans to grow in 20 turns (assumes aqueduct build after Lighthouse).

Price checking:
Code of Laws: Rome - 139, Zulu - 143 and India - 128, Persia, Peace and 8 pieces of gold.
Can't make peace with Persia, breaks our MA with Zulu against Persia (rep hit). MA has eleven more turns to run, Persia may learn currency by then.

Selling Currency: Rome CoL + WM + 26, Zulu CoL + WM + 29, India CoL + WM + 80.
This will drop the price that Persia has to pay for Currency, but since they must be researching that now, we should trade before Persia learns it and trades it.
Persia will not trade Construction at any price just now.
Persia is at war with Rome, both their UUs are Super Swordsman and both have Iron Working. Neither has iron connected. They are not on the same land mass. Drat. Would like to see Persia and Rome both at war with each other AND both of them having their Golden Age at the same time. sigh. Not meant to be.

Decide to wait one turn to get more money before selling.
Hit enter.
[I] 01 590 BC

Sell Currency to India for CoL + WM + 82 gold (all).
Sell Currency to Zulu for WM + 29 gold (all).
Sell Currency to Rome for WM + 26 gold (all).

Galley finds a land mass to the west of Rouen.
vWarrior wipes out barb camp and get 25 gold.


Paris settler -> catapult, 4 turns.

[I] 02 570 BC

Settler heads north.


Iron is connected.

[I] 03 550 BC

worker moves, irrigating northwards for new cities.


Great Lighthouse 550 BC
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/550BC_LighthouseTrimmed.jpg


Orleans, Great Lighthouse -> settler, 4 turns (do not know how to build aqueducts, need Construction)

[I] 04 530 BC

Terrain improvements.


Great Pyramids built by Persia in Persepolis.

[I] 05 510 BC

Settler moves to Pink Dot.


Lose a galley to barbs near Sardis.
Paris catapult -> settler, 5 turns.
Marseilles market -> harbor, 27 turns.
Rome and Japan learn Monarchy.

[I] 06 490 BC

See German borders on the island to our west.
Found Poiters on the Pink Dot, grows in 10, worker in 10.
Meet the Germans. They need the Alphabet and have 182 gold. They know nobody.
Sell Alphabet to Germany for WM + 29 gold.
We have Writing and Mathematics to sell.
Sell Writing to Germany for 153 gold (all).

Germany 490 BC
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/Box180295/knick01/490BC_GermanyTrimmed.jpg


India and Persia sign an MA vs. Rome.
India declares on Rome.
We learn Literature (Libraries).
Republic in 12 or Construction in 14.
Chose Republic, to help our economy.
Uprising near Amiens (or so we are told).

[I] 07 470 BC

Thought Republic was in 12, but is in 21, and Construction in 11.


Orleans settler -> library, 12 turns.

[I] 08 450 BC

Automove the settler from Orleans towards Rouen (three turns), to meet with Galley and settle a city on South Germany, just to give us a toe-hold on Germany for later use.
Automove a spear towards Rouen, three turns.
Automove a galley to Rouen, two turns.
Road building in the north for new cities.


China and Persia sign an MA vs. Rome.
China declares war on Rome.
India and Japan sign peace treaty.

[I] 09 430 BC

We have a monopoly on Literature.
Zulus have learned Monarchy.
India, Rome and Zulus have Construction. Time to go tech shopping.
Sell:

communication with Germany to China for WM + 95 gold (all).
communication with Germany to India for WM + 54 gold (all).
communication with Germany to Rome for WM + 53 gold (all).

Buy:

Construction from the Zulus for Literature, contact with Germany and 24 gold (of 834).

We are now in the Middle Ages.

Road building done up north, begin jungle clearing.


Paris settler -> settler, 6 turns (Paris is size 3 now, expected in to be at size 4, I missed something somewhere.)

[I] 10 410 BC

Paris settler heads north.
Galley moves into Rouen.
Spear and Settler outside Rouen.

Marseilles is cranky, increase the happy slider to 20%, Marseilles is fine, but we are at -3 gpt.
Might be better short rush something in Marseilles with a whipped citizen and then switch back to harbor.


[IBT]

End of Turnset 10 Stats:

Science: The Republic, 18 turns
Treasury: 812 gold, -3 gpt, 1.7.2
Cities:

Paris (3) grows in 1, settler in 6
Orleans (4) grows in 4, library in 10
Lyons (3) grows in 2, market in 12
Rheims (4) grows in 6, market in 7
Tours (4) grows in 10, market in 6
Mars (5) grows in 2, market in 2
Marseilles (5) grows in 10, harbor in 17
Chartres (3) grows in 3, market in 6
Avignon (4) grows in 10, market in 22
Besancon (3) grows in 8, harbor in 11
Rouen (3) grows in 2, market in 7
Grenoble (3) grows in 18, temple in 38
Dijon (2) grows in 12, temple in 38
Amiens (3) grows in 9, barracks in 3
Cherbourg (1) grows in 10, rArcher in 10
Poiters (1) grows in 6, worker in 6

Military:

settlers 002, 001 in production
workers 018, 001 in production
warriors 019
spearman 003
archers 000, 001 in production
catapults 002
galleys 003

Build List:

settler [1] (Paris)
library [1] (Orleans)
market [7] (Lyons, Rheims, Tours, Mars, Chartres, Avignon and Rouen)
harbor [2] (Marseilles and Besancon)
temple [2] (Grenoble and Dijon)
barracks [1] (Amiens)
rArcher [1] (Cherbourg)
worker [1] (Poiters)

Allowed units 64; current units 48

And the save is >>HERE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Knick01_410BC.SAV).

Done
Built the Great Lighthouse.
Found Germany.
Made roads to the north for our new cities in that direction.
Built Poiters (Pink dot).
Entered the Middle Ages.
Researching Republic.

To Do
Have a settler and spear outside of Rouen waiting to board the galley in Rouen. Thought these should go to Germany to give us a city on that land so that we do not have to invade later.

Paris is serving as a Settler Pump, but it is off-cycle. After it built its last settler the city was at size 3, not size 4.

We have a settler heading north to either the Red or Blue Dot. I think Blue Dot should be settled next, to allow us to easier access to Cherbourg, should the Zulus get frisky.

The settler that Paris is building now should go east and be our third city on the east side of Lake France. Mars may need to build a galley to get this settler across the lake. We had four of these ships at one time, lost one to barbarians, one is in Rouen and the other two are exploring sea tiles while they can.

If possible, would like to get a city onto the Dyes in the jungles between Zululand and Persia. We need more luxuries to make our marketplaces worth while.

The MA vs. Persia that we have with the Zulus will end in one turn. Persia has Monotheism and we have Literature. A trade might be possible.

Rome is at war with three civs.

Planning
Which direction do we want to attack, when the time comes to do that, east or west?

West is Germany, all by itself and a Modern Times unique unit.
East is Zululand and Persia, both with Ancient Times unique units. Attacking either one of them could trigger their Golden Age.

When do we want to attack?

I don’t have a timeline, just trying to get ideas.

I think we should attack Germany, get a foothold on their continent whilst still at peace, then attack them. Nice turnset, I think it's me up next and I'll be having words with Persia. Maybe we should try to destroy one of their cities so that when we ask for a peace treaty, they'll offer more for it.

I think this is correct:

Roster
drakdan
tupaclives
CommandoBob - just played
Knickers - UP
CodytheGenius - On deck ?

East or West
Knickers wants to take out Germany first.

I favor (55% East vs. 45% West) taking out the Zulus first because we have, or will have, a city two sea tiles from Cherbourg, which we could then resupply easily, even after the effects of Great Lighthouse expires. I think that any German land we can reach is 4 sea tiles away from Rouen, which means slower reinforcement. If we put two cities on Germany, they can support each other.

I am not opposed to removing Germany early; my only concerns are about getting reinforcements to the front line (either direction) as quickly as possible.

Germany has better land than the Zulus, so maybe Germany is the better choice.

(I don't have any answers, just questions. I'm not even sure which way I would go.)

Germany is no threat whatsoever. I'd rather we made a small, concentrated attack against Persia, and eventually a larger attack against the Zulu. Taking Germany's lands won't improve our standings much it seems.

Turn 1: Nothing much happens, sending a settler and a spear over to German continent.

Turn 2: ZZZzzzz.

Turn 3: Marketplace completed in Mars >> Library.

Turn 4: Nothing much.

Turn 5: Not a lot.

Turn 6: Same.

Turn 7: Bayonne founded >> Library. Rouen finished a market >> Library.

Turn 8: Rheims completes a market >> Spear (we need to build up our defense) Tours also completes a market >> Spear. Chatres completes a market too >> Library. Lost one of our three galleys to a japanese one (he only had 1 bar left though, it was tense)

Turn 9: Palace expansion (they love me). I send a worker over towards Paris to meet with the galley and get over to improve some ground on the eastern continent.

Turn 10: There's a settler way up north (underneath some workers) I don't really know what to do with him, shall we settle him up north or on the eastern continent?

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/8766/untitled6gv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And here's that worker I was planning on sending east:

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/6745/untitled0xm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cody, are you going to take it? 24 hours for a post. Anyone want to propose any long term plans and ideas? I'd like to settle on that north-east island just so the AI doesn't take it and we have to chase it down later. Throw a unit on the other space and it's a fortress. Likewise, once we hit Republic we should see if we can convert any cities to settler factories.

Going Once

I agree with drakdan, now it the time to make long term plans (east vs west, etc).

But for me...

I may have to drop out of this game.

Over the weekend I uninstalled PTW and installed C3C. Conquests and PTW work fine, but not Vanilla. I got the dreaded 'Insert CD' error message that has been so popular.

I started a new thread on this (the Sticky thread referred to patched versions of the game, not fresh installs) and have emailed Atari for help.

I will keep track of your progress and let you know what I find out, if and when I find out anything.

Nooooo, balls. Hmm, alright, CommandoBob, do you just want to skip your turn for now and let (is it tupac?) have a session??

Nooooo, balls. Hmm, alright, CommandoBob, do you just want to skip your turn for now and let (is it tupac?) have a session??
Yes, skip me until I post otherwise.

I'm going to withdraw. This is just boring now.

Hmm everyone seems to be leaving except me and knickers...

well I'll play this turnset very soon, I have to play my turns for Tupac04 first but I should be able to get to this by tomorrow at the absolute latest.

D'oh! Hmm, it is getting a bit boring I must admit, but I'll stick with it until Tupac leaves. Anyone else want to join up?

D'oh! Hmm, it is getting a bit boring I must admit, but I'll stick with it until Tupac leaves. Anyone else want to join up?
Don't give up. Just think of what you can learn from Tupac if it is only the two of you. And if I can get Vanilla fixed I will be back.

Pre-flight

Lots of MM to be done. Why have we let the Parisian settler factory die?
Also change a lot of builds, why are we building spears?
We have Republic coming in in 7 turns and we won't have MP's anymore?
Why did we not trade lit to Persia with peace to get Mono like CommandoBob suggested? Why are we at war with Japan? Theres a lot of things going on here that shouldn't be.
I assume we are doing an infra push based on all the other builds going on so I continue that theme.
Also set to build a few more settlers and workers.

Also why is Poitiers where it is? Its a horrible location that has landlocked itself. Switch to a settler and will whip-abandon once it reaches size 2 and move it.

IBT - zzz

Turn 1 (230BC)- paris: Settler --> galley, start sending galleys with workers and settlers to our colonies to help develop them (they will produce settlers in the colonies obviously). Peace + 160gp gets us Peace with Japan + Monarchy.
then... uh huh... prior to that trade Persia was ONLY up Monotheism. After the deal with Japan they have monarchy as well...

bizzare! oh well that kills that plan then.
I don't see what we plan to gain from war with Persia at the moment so I make peace getting 10gp and a world map.
Found Strasbourg

IBT - zzz

Turn 2 (210BC)- just moving guys
suddenly have a thought (yes a rare occurence indeed) and check the original save...
would someone like to tell me why we still had the MA with the Zulu against Persia?
Anyone? I take full responsibility for costing us our rep, I should have checked something like that, but Knick why didn't you follow CommandoBob's suggestion and make peace when the MA finished (first turn of your turnset) and sign the peace deal with persia trading lit for monotheism? I'm curious, not spiteful. We had nothing to gain from war with Persia when we have no military. Nothing at all and now its cost us our rep.
It won't matter very much as this is only monarchy and we probably won't need to be paying gpt for solid goods at any stage. We should be advanced enough to use techs in trading rather than gpt, but were this game to be played at deity (emperor you'd probably be alright as well if you were clever in trading) it would make the game a lot more difficult.

IBT - a reg galley defends against a barb galley and gets promoted to vet. China founds a city on the German continent.

Turn 3 (190BC)- zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 (170BC)- zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 (150BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 (130BC) - Rep in 1 so cut back science to 20%, Rep still in 1 but at +35gpt.

IBT - Republic comes in, set to Engineering in 24 at 50%.

Turn 7 (110BC)- don't really see the point in tech hoarding so I decide to see what we can get for Republic.
Persia: Republic for Monotheism + 40gp + 34gpt + World Map

Unfortunately no-one else has any cash, but Persia and us are the only ones with Republic or Monotheism.
Before we revolt I decide to see what can be whipped. Whip 3 temples and a harbor, but its still another turn till we can whip-move Poitiers so I put off the revolt for another turn.
Found Brest

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 (90BC) - Whip the settler in Poitiers and Dijon then order a revolt, we draw 5 turns anarchy. We have to hire specialists in most cities, and we end up earning 41gpt during our anarchy from (mostly the Persian payments) but also from taxmen.
Found Dijon (again), Poitiers (again) and Bordeaux.

IBT - zzz

Turn 9 - ah, we get a few riots because I forgot about the unhappiness from the whip being transferred when the city is abandoned. Avignon gets 5 taxmen.

IBT - zzz

Turn 10 - zzz

OK we have a settler on the German continent, you can found where he is next turn or reposition as you see fit, just don't build another landlocked city without other cities to use those coastal tiles. We also have a settler on our eastern continent. he should probably make the long trek to get dyes. Then ship some workers to that continent and hook up a road to that city and one of our coastal cities on that continent (rush a harbor in one of them).
We will be out of anarchy soon and we should change to republic.
Don't forget to fire all the specialists once we get into Republic. From Engineering we should continue toward Mil Trad building horsemen along the way (trade to get horses as soon as possible).
In the meantime keep building swords for our offensive army once we get a bit of infra in our core cities (no more than a market, duct (if needed), granary (if you think it will make a difference for that city) and rax, maybe Paris could get a library but for now I wouldn't worry bout libs).

Our long term strategy involves a mass cavalry upgrade, so leo's could be nice. Maybe start a prebuild?

When building the infra in the core (and for this I mean in the actually core, so the capital and 1st ring) don't be afraid to cash rush markets, ducts and granaries, as the sooner these cities can turn to military production the better. The space freed up by moving Poitiers and Dijon can now be filled by another city so the next settler we build at home should head there.

With regards to the numbers, assuming CommandoBob gets vanilla working again (and I hope he does because I'd like the whole team to play through in Tupac03 seeing as we are coming up to the conclusion) thats 3, try advertising in the Succession Game Registry at the top of the page. If the worst comes to the worst and Bob cant keep playing and no-one else joins then I'd recommend increasing our timeframe for playing turns and increase the turns in each turnset to 20.

anyway here's the save

Also why is Poitiers where it is? Its a horrible location that has landlocked itself.
This one is mine. When I put that one the dotmap back in Post #92 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3986043&postcount=92) I was seeing that it had 3BGs adjacent to the tile, one north, west and south. Thought we had plenty of coastal cities already and didn't needed another one. What did I miss? :confused:

would someone like to tell me why we still had the MA with the Zulu against Persia?
Is auto-renegoiate turned on? If so, it is probably Knickers preferred style of play, and since this is his first SG, he was just unaware of how it could affect a game.

Oh, crap. Sorry about some of those bad points that Tupac sorted, I wasn't really aware of a few of them. Ah, that's what the auto-negotiate button at the start does, damn. It's well annoying. I'll have a look at the save soon, it's a bit late for me...

I have a few questions Tupac, Why don't we need to build any more spears? What's an infra push?

I have a few questions Tupac, Why don't we need to build any more spears? What's an infra push?
Sometimes 'spears' refers to military units in general, not just the Spearman unit from the Ancient Age. Couldn't find the exact quote, so the context would really be critical. I think tupac means to stop building military units for a while.

An 'infra push' is local jargon for 'building up the infrastructure of the cities'. I found this quote and what tupac is talking about is building things like aqueducts, markets, harbors, factories,etc, that will allow our cities to grow, be happy and productive. Aqueducts and harbors help cities to grow, marketplaces and luxuries help to keep people happy without using the happy slider (the luxury slider). I think that banks and stock exchanges add to happiness too, but I might be wrong.

Tupac sees that the Frenchies have a nice strong foot hold in the world, but need to beef up their core cities before trying to conquer the world.

I have a few questions Tupac, Why don't we need to build any more spears? What's an infra push?

When I say spears I did mean leave off all mil for a little bit to get our cities with the minimum infrastructure (harbors, ducts, markets, maybe a lib in 1-2 cities) before cranking mil production back up.
However when I say lets not build anymore spears I do also mean, 'lets not build anymore spears'.
They are unnecessary, I'll give you some examples from some of my recent deity games.

China - Huge - Deity - Variant OW (oscillating war), Defiant.

My mil numbers on entering the MA

17 swords
12 cats
5 warriors
2 spears
4 galleys

Upon entering the IA

29 swords
41 cannons
2 warriors
3 spears
1 pike
4 muksets
56 riders
8 cavs
2 armies.

Rome - Standard - Deity - Variant: Despotic

Entering MA

31 Legions
4 cats
1 spear
2 horsemen

Entering IA

92 Legions
45 cannons
1 musket
21 knights

Swords defend like spears, plus they can attack. Spears/pikes/muskets even rifles to a degree are a waste of time really because there is usually a unit which will defend as well or almost as well as it which can fight better.
Infantry its a different story as they fight like cavalry but Infantry are a long way off and we shouldn't even get that far, the game should be well won before Rep parts comes in.
Why build spears when we can build swords?
MP duty? we're in a Republic!
Covering stacks? Why not just build more swords?
Defending cities? All you need is enough units to make sure the city doesn't fall on turn 1 and you should have a mobile force to arrive to relieve the city and defeat the enemy army.
Also if we are goign for conquest most wars should be fought on our terms, thus defence becomes a secondary issue, the best defence is a good offence.

Hope that helped explain my thoughts slightly and wasn't just inane ramblings :)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH, yeah, it all makes sense now. I always find something really frustrating when playing in the middle/late industrial age and that is that when I'm fighting a civ with cavalries and they're defending with infantries, I usually have to wait for tanks. It's annoying (that actually has little relevance here though...)

Tuapc, I'm going to have to put this on hold for a while, my exams are really getting on top of me at the moment (A levels) and so I'll be giving up Civ (or trying to at least) for a while, I'll still be cruising around here every once in a while though, but I really need to concentrate on revising. Sorry; we will finish it.

No worries mate, when you feel like pickign it up again just give me a PM.

Sure thing.