The Civ IV Intersite Demogame (ISDG) is in its planning stages. The ISDG is like the MTDG, but instead of playing against teams of CFCers, we play against other Civilization fan sites.

If you'd like to join CFC's team, sign up here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165646). Feel free to ask any questions in this thread.

In MTDG news:
Still awaiting that damned patch! :sad:

We gave up on waiting for the patch at Realms Beyond. I made a serious mistake in halting events for more than two months.

Our events are short, though. The MTDG is intended to be a game lasting many months. It's important to make sure you get it right, and I would think it would be best not to bridge versions. Thus even this long wait is probably for the best for this event.

The expansion is supposed to come out in the summer? This puts you in another bind. MTDG players are probably going to have to commit to sticking with the vanilla game for the duration. If that's not tenable, then you should consider the possibility of waiting for the expansion, or even perhaps cancelling. However, if most or all of the players (or perhaps even merely "enough" players, though how many that is, I don't know) are ready to commit to sticking through the vanilla MTDG, then I'm still onboard for helping you out with the map.

Perhaps the community should discuss the potential impact of the expansion? Find out which way players want to go?


- Sirian

Could we start now, with what we have now just make it a quick game, as even with a quick game would still take awhile.

However quick game with small map etc means we might get it done quickly.

Sirian, do you have access to the beta version of the patch? If it is just waiting on Take2, you could generate the map and take screenshots for us to discuss. :)

With the issues I'm having with Civ 4 I can't see me paying out even more money for an expansion until they get the current game working for me. But I can't take part on the current patch as I can see floodplains in unexplored regions.

Pity we all couldn't use the beta version of the patch.

Sirian, do you have access to the beta version of the patch? If it is just waiting on Take2, you could generate the map and take screenshots for us to discuss. :)

Since Civ4 was released, I have touched only builds that have been released to the public. I'm sorry, but that's all I can say on that topic for the moment.


- Sirian

Stupid question, but isn't the question about the expansion moot since everyone who has the warlords has vanilla, and I know that at least with civ3 you could still play vanilla even when you had PTW or Conquests.

I can't speak for Epsilon Team! as a whole, but I'm sure that we will lose almost all interested members if this game doesn't start soon.

My non-existant vote is cast for starting the cIV MTDG now, even if it's going to be the Vanilla version.

We can always start a second MTDG a few months from now if there is strong interest in playing on the expansion version.

well cripes.... Why don't we wait for civ 5 to come out since it might be released without so many bugs.

This waiting is going to kill the game IMO.... people were excited about it. Now many have fallen off. Should we have a second sign up to see if people are still interested??

I know how you feel Tubby. But I don't know how many people want to re-sign up for a non-existant game.

Can we put it to a vote? To see whether we should wait or continue. Sirian has said that he doesn't have the beta patch. What could be so tramatic in a patch that could effect gameplay all that much?

I think that a poll needs to be issued so that each individual member can vote and not vote per team so that we can get a true feel to see if the populace thinks that we should continue or wait.

Does anyone know if the save will be forward compatable with the new patch? If that is the case why not start and upgrade when/if the patch does finally make an appearance. I'll just have to wait loading the save until then due to my floodplains issue.

IF the save isnt compatible could someone make a scenario for the new patch with the same stuff in place and game age etc the same?

Join the Civ 3 MTDG - its getting exciting. We could consider it some kind of alternate, parallel universe ala Star Trek.

What could be so tramatic in a patch that could effect gameplay all that much?

I guess you don't remember the vanilla Civ3 patching process?

Well we only need 5 people per team that HAVE to be unpatched, so wouldnt make that much difference, i think we should start now!

Does anyone know if the save will be forward compatable with the new patch? If that is the case why not start and upgrade when/if the patch does finally make an appearance. I'll just have to wait loading the save until then due to my floodplains issue.

I think it is...

I guess I might start a poll later tonight too, to see where players' interests lie.

I guess you don't remember the vanilla Civ3 patching process?
I guess you don't remember [c3c] .

Actually I don't remember the patching process because when I bought civ I bought [c3c] fully patched.

It's just utterly frustrating to be promised a patch and plans are delay because of it, then no sign of a patch and those promising it are no longer around. [pissed]

...then no sign of a patch and those promising it are no longer around. [pissed]

Who promised the patch?

There is a patch out there. It's not vaporware. If you're going to blame anybody, though, then you have to blame me. I told the organizers that I would produce the map after the next patch was released. I expected it to come out many weeks ago, but I expected wrongly. However, we are still in the same position: limbo. I'll produce the map once the patch is out. Or you can take matters in to your own hands, and choose not to go with me for creating the map, and start whenever Plan B is ready to go. Since you and a couple of others specifically went out of your way to get me to help with the map, though, and my doing the map is contingent on the patch, then in a sense, it was you (and whoever else wanted my help on the map -- most of the players, is my understanding) who set things up this way. I don't see that anybody (including Take Two) is a bad guy here. It simply went awry.

My earlier post should not be mistaken for a suggestion to wait for the expansion. I was pointing out that the MTDG will run afoul of another problem when the expansion comes out. I'm sorry that's not welcome news.

I'm sorry for my misjudgement about the desirability of waiting for the patch. In the pure sense, I made the right call about the gameplay. However, the delay may have caused even more damage. I'm sorry about the whole affair. We just got lost in the cracks of the rumbling corporate machine. *shrug*


- Sirian

...my doing the map is contingent on the patch...Oh, so you need the patch to do the map as needed. No map, no Sirian made map which I would much prefer to have, so for me it means wait. I just wish that Take 2 (and this is in no way getting at Sirian) would give us some idea of when this patch will arrive.

Sirian, I didn't mean to get you into rant mode. Sorry. In the main DemoGame Chieftess started the rumors when she mentioned a patch before a trunchat of hers. That was at the end of February. I think that's where it all started. Everyone said that Take2 has confirmed it, but I have yet to find any proof after looking on the very poorly ran official civ4 website.

I'm willing to wait if you must, but I was just concerned about the dying interest and know that the longer that we wait, the more people that we lose.


My earlier post should not be mistaken for a suggestion to wait for the expansion. I was pointing out that the MTDG will run afoul of another problem when the expansion comes out. I'm sorry that's not welcome news.
Sorry I took it that way. sometimes you have to beat me over the head
:hammer:
:cringe:

How active is everyone elses forum?

Aloha is fairly active we got quite a few people involved in the mafia game but quite a lot of our people are active posters anyways so i dont think we have much to fear if were waiting for the patch.

The main players in Epsilon are active in the activites that might be going on...:mischief:

We wait with (semi)patient forbarence.


Sirian, is there a specific reason that you want to wait for the patch (ie new features like the sdk the you plan to use), or is it for something more simple, like that you would have to reinstal civ4 to get the game to work for the rest of us?

The nature of the MTDG is such that if players lose patience with it over a month of delays, they weren't very likely to have the patience to stick it through all the way, anyway, even if no delays occurred. Players aren't defined by signing up; they are defined by playing. Just looking at SGs, you will find a significant difference between those who sign up and those who are actually reliable players and participants. ... Some things just cook slowly, and this is one of them. Patience and resolve not optional.

Delays due to poor or absent leadership could undermine a venture like this, but delays in pursuit of securing stable and improved gameplay for an event intended to last for months on end are another story. I would hope that some general patience would prevail.

Literally, the choice to wait has already been made. Several weeks of waiting have already passed. With that much invested, to give up now would surely be a case of haste making waste. I still believe the wait is for the best. I say that not as somebody who knows what's in the patch (though I do) nor as somebody trying to defend Firaxis or Take2, but as somebody who has run a successful Civ3 tournament and other large scale multiplayer affairs. You might as well sit tight and hang in there, and the fun will begin before long (in MTDG time scales -- "long" is pretty long!) Or, if that doesn't make sense to most of the players, you can take the bull by the horns and go in some other direction.


The Civ4 multiplayer community is actively suffering due to the "bad peer" connectivity issues with firewalls. Leaving that to stew for months on end has not been good for Civ4 MP, so even if you were to have no inside info, you could fairly expect a patch to fix this problem sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry that Chieftess got things stirred up. Not my doing, nor Take2's. As you say, Take Two has made no promises about a patch. Yet the buck here still stops with me, as I am the one who said I'd produce the map as soon as the patch comes out. You're waiting on me, and I'm waiting on the patch. That hasn't gone as I've expected -- honestly, it never occurred to me that anything could delay the next patch for this long, knowing the level of need for fixes in the MP world. However, it's still for the best, since the patch would have disrupted your game as you bridged versions anyway. Count it as a blessing in disguise? Sometimes things happen for a reason that is not obvious at the time.


- Sirian

Sirian ..thanks for your wise words..I agree. If we lose people because they cant wait then they would not stick around. Everyone sit tight and go play the demo game or a PBEM/pitboss game within your team.

So am i just getting my hopes up..........

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=166928

but can we start now???? :D:D:D please dont kill my joy, its a patch, im installing it, we can play :D

Heres some more details-

patch place i found-http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/downloads.htm

details-

Changes:

randomized processing order when multiple players try to move on the same turn slice
only the host can set the admin password
Horseback Riding now a classical tech
Kremlin now gives -33% hurry production cost
can't airlift from foreign cities
expanded subject for PitBoss e-mail
lightened the color of some civs' text
mp retire fix
less hammers from chops the farther away from a city
reduced hammer yield from forest chops to 20…
Mathematics increases forest chop yields by +50%
SDI cannot be built before the Manhattan Project.
increased SDI cost
marines and SAM Infantry now upgrade to Mech Infantry
better AI-to-human diplo in team games
no more diplo penalty for helping to end wars
city production popups stay on city when entering/exiting
can now set units to Sleep and Intercept in wbs
Continents map script now produces large continents
game options and victory conditions now saved in ini file
invalid buildings now removed from city queues
Free Trade: Medium Upkeep
State Property: Low Upkeep
Representation: +2 happy in X biggest cities.
Hereditary Rule: Low Upkeep.
Representation: Medium Upkeep.
Slaver: Low Upkeep
Nationhood: No Upkeep
firepower is now average of curr and max strength
Gunships now move faster over rails
No Cheating option renamed to Lock Modified Assets
city management no longer uses "forced" specialist states when not automated
Expansive: +3 Health
Financial: No longer give production bonus for Banks
Prompt for admin password when loading a game containing one in LAN, Internet, or Pitboss play
Don't allow players to play non-playable civs in Pitboss
Do not display SP only mods in Pitboss
Allow hotseat/PBEM scenario host to select which civ s/he will play
Force non-playable civs to be AI in Hotseat/PBEM games
Allowing for AI slots in player defined scenarios for Hot Seat, PBEM, and Pitboss games
Do not display duplicate buddy request popups from the same guy
Peer address handling improvements
Number keys perform leaderhead actions on Civilopedia leader screen.
Custom game SP screen remembers difficulty level last played
Reduced rounding error for population and land victory condition test
Loading a multiplayer game as a PBEM/hotseat converts it to non-simultaneous turns
When the city names of your civ are all taken, choose a default name from a random civ
Timelines more uniform across game speeds
Military Advisor shows Barbarians
Tech chooser screen now observes CvGameInterface.cannotResearch() and shows the tech in a red pane if the function returns true
Fixed American Revolution scenario to work with Pitboss
PBEM password reminder popup no longer disappears when the game starts
Wonder description on Wonder Movie screen more legible
Top Civs screen no longer appears in online multiplayer
Civilopedia main page sorted in columns rather than in rows
Pressing escape when selecting goto points now cancels the goto waypoints
Military advisor now works like foreign advisor: clicking on leader buttons clears previous leader selections unless you hold down the shift key.
Teams in multiplayer once again share all the players' starting techs, not just the last player's
Great person point generation from Wonders continues after Wonder has become obsolete
quicksave doesn't prompt for overwrite
Fixes:

exploit fix that allowed multiple players to extract the same gold/resources from the AI...
Don't set localhost address as public addr for peers on same computer
fixed gunships capturing cities bug
game doesn't end on ties
fixed mp UN voting bug
Leaderheads on a radeon 9000 64mb - fix for strange skin shading
Fixed crash that happened when a spy sabotaged an improvement outside cultural borders
The full mod path is no longer stored in the save when the mod is installed under the user folder
Double-clicking on a save of a mod now loads the proper DLL
fixed Out-of-Sync from exiting to main menu
fixed anarchy/specialist resetting bug
fixed bug where environmentalism doesn't affect new cities
fix for missing head mission crash
fixed stack attack bug with groups of units with more than one move
fixed premature end-turn unit cycle bug
fixed State Porperty cumulative effect in team game
fixed plot list button scrolling for multiple resolutions
fixed some AI attitude issues for team games
Strip chat messages of color tags before displaying in Pitboss
Fixed logic bug that determines the number of open slots in a Pitboss game
Improving how the host determines if the game is full - number of connections rather than number of players - before, the host wasn't considering joining players when determining if the game was full
Set status to CLOSED when a computer player dies in the game
The full mod path is no longer stored in the save when the mod is installed under the user folder
Load proper DLL when a mod is specified in the ini file
fix for tech chooser showing known techs as unknown
Clear map data (like latitudes) when you exit to main menu
Fixed error in combat calculations when a zero-strength unit was involved
Fixed bug in Info screen "rival worst" calculation
End of game sequence plays correctly for hotseat/pbem
Diplomacy screen no longer allows end-turn events to go through
Diplomacy screen gold popups respond to ESCAPE and RETURN
Right-click select-all no longer causes large stacks to slide off the screen
No longer possible to attempt to take over unplayable civs in multiplayer scenarios
Fixed PBEM infinite movement exploit
Fixed rush production per population for game speeds other than normal
GNP graph is now consistent with demographics table
Fix Gunship being almost invisibile in Frozen mode
fix mod name in progress bar
New DX9 code takes screenshot without requiring lockable back buffer
Fixed the vertically launching torpedo for the submarine unit
Movie playback optimized
Significant reduction in video and system memory usage
Fixed some memory leaks
Fixed crashes with modified SDK
Fixed XML failures with non-default locale
Many translation fixes
Memory related crash fixes
Fixed diplomacy crash fix (when expanding an empty tree control with space bar)
Internet lobby -> LAN fix
fixed pedia and menu buttons disappearing after leaving tech chooser
PitBoss no longer crashes on victory
can no longer see number of units in darkened tiles by moving the flag
No more Archers holding all their weapons and Workers holding all their tools
No more fog of war missing from the southern ice and from trees/jungle on the dateline
Pushing "go back" while joining a mp game, no longer causes background music to disappear
Wonder movie effect and zoom no longer happens when you have disabled Wonder movies
City billboards no longer choke on text formatting
Many tutorial issues fixed…
Fixed checksum folder order difference between NTFS and FAT32 filesystems
Many worldbuilder issues fixed…
Fix: Black eye shadows
Fix: Some leaderheads appear to have white eyes when the low-res textures option is on
fixing crack in huge globe view maps
fixes the problem where animals were not animating in the fog
Prevent Terrain crash when reloading EarthMap twice
fixed crash on too quick quickload
fixed city yields being revealed in FOW
fixed ability to see cities in FOW via defense modifiers
ICBM no longer flips upside-down when fortified/awaken
Fix for combat bug across a map seam
Additions;

PitBossSleep ini setting
unit cycling optimization
Africa, Europe, East Asia, Eastern U.S., and South America maps
Fantasy_Realm, Fractal, and Shuffle map scripts
unit health bar for plot list buttons
Require Complete Kills game option
No Movies is now a graphical option (instead of an ini option)
Warn all users when a player with a different version of files joins the game
Display a popup warning the host when a joining player has different versions of XML/Python files so he can make sure this guy can be trusted
Indicate which players have an active turn in the Pitboss admin screen
Synch Logging now an .ini option
Able to load mods from the Pitboss
Hotseat and PBEM scenarios
Display name of peer you are contacting in join screen if available
Saving DirectIP join address
Added culture rate popup help to culture bar in city screen
Added Admin password field in PBEM/Hotseat staging screens
Added HideMovieBackground ini option for further movie speedup
Added HideOutOfVRamWarning ini option
Exposed many more functions to Python
Hooked up modern whaling boats
support for movies in customAssets folder
Troubleshooting Connectivity

If you are encountering problems when connecting to multiplayer games over the internet, chances are strong that you are not the cause of the problem. It is likely that players running firewall software that rejects incoming connection attempts may have already joined the game. Since these players do not have their firewall configured correctly, their computers are rejecting your attempt to connect. Therefore, it is vital that all players who wish to play multiplayer games ensure that their firewall is set up to allow Civilization IV to construct the necessary peer-to-peer network.


If you are running firewall software, please verify that Sid Meier’s Civilization 4 is listed on the "Exception List" of your firewall, and that incoming messages will be accepted for this process. If your firewall software does not offer an exception list, please open port 2056 for UDP traffic on your firewall. This will allow the required traffic through.


Although Civilization IV contains logic to negotiate around many firewalls and NAT devices (routers), it can run into trouble under certain circumstances. The solution Civilization IV employs works with a vast majority of routers, but does not work with all brands. Very old models may have more problems than newer ones. Additionally, Civilization IV will have problems negotiating through 2 levels of network address translation (ie. a router behind a router). Also, negotiation may fail if you or an existing peer is running the game on a very large and busy LAN.

edit- was from the same thread so not too much detective work :)

I read through the changes/additions...

most notably
some changes to civ traits

Saving DirectIP join address <- excellent for Dave's mega pitboss game.

Thanks for the heads up. Downloading it right now.

Just played the start of a quick random game, i was the romans you do notice the change in traits, would this mean we should re-choose civs?

BCLG..what traits have been changed...

erm well ive only noticed the expansive one so far, not sure what else though, have only played one game so far.

Financial: removed cheap banks
Expansive: +1 health (for a total of +3)
All civs with Mining: being 1 tech away from chopping isn't so important

This is great news! :D

Hopefully we can crank out a map and finalize the ruleset to start!

Great news. I'm glad the 'wait-without-end' finally has ended.

@Sirian - thank you for being fairly expansive in your post concerning the benefits of waiting and the virtues of patience.