Hello :)

I`m opening this thread cos of all the fuss Dark Sheer made with his wall-mountains ;)

So, I thought, lets throw around some ideas, maybe something good would come out of it. I`ll start:

-The player unit is an upgradeable king unit- by Weasel Op

-Enemies are wheeled so they stay in their own dungeons - by mrtn

-Victory type - mass regicide - kill all the bosses - by Virote Considon

-Paradrops as teleporting devices or something

You can also just make the baddies wheeled to prevent them getting out. This is also a good way to insure that they all stay in their own dungeons.

Sounds like an interesting idea, stormy :)

I'd love to see this done but one of the main things that might hinder this is the fact that not all Unit flags are transmisable to armies.

I'd love to see this done but one of the main things that might hinder this is the fact that not all Unit flags are transmisable to armies
Please say this so I can understand what it means :blush: :)

Mrtn! Thats a great idea! Its strange I didn`t think of it too, with all the wheeled WH units `n all... Oh well, I never said I was smart :p

Some wierd stuff here, and Stormrage, are you going to add the Storm Boyz to my Mod?

Whasso weird `bout it, eh?
And I`m not, I`mma let LMR! use Grimgor for his civ, and that pretty much makes Storm Boyz unnecesary. Tho, I am going to demand my name to be used for one of his Military leaders :D
And I`m a bit buisy to make my own civ too, so you guys have fun :)

Another idea - I don`t have much experience with this, almost none, but it seems that you can capture an enemy treasure (he carries it around, right?), and then take it to your city and get gold for it. If I got it right here`s my idea: You kill a monster, it drops a treasure, you "cast a teleport spell" (build an arfield in 1 turn), teleport back to town and spend the gold to buy some equipment (a stronger version of you to add to your army) which would take like forever to build cos its very expensive and your city produces 1 shield or something like that.

ok, but We still need plenty of people to participate.

Where is Dark Sheer anyway?

Quest victory idea - every dungeon has a boss, who is fortified in a city, maybe even immobile, and underneath the city is a special resource required to build a spaceship part.

Please say this so I can understand what it means :blush: :)
I was reffering to the "Unit Abilities" (but got it wrong:blush:).
Let's say our hero-army is wimpy at first and doesn't have any good unit abilities. And when defeating who knows what dungeon he got acces to a resource that allowed him to build in the capital a improv that gives a unit with the blitz ability every 20-50 turns. And i was saying that if that unit would be added in the army (as it should be) i don't know if it would get the blitz ability. That's kinda what i meant.
(this is only an example as other abilities are also nice to add later in the game)
It would be like learning new skills.:) (i've been obviously playing to much Diablo).

I like your ideas Stormy :), just one question:
How is the experience gaining through enslave is going to be implemented, kuz the way i see it when our Hero-Army is enslaving he will get the same result. It would mean he is gaining experience but he would get the same things every time. (or am i not understanding enslavement corectly?)

hmmm... I forgot that 1 unit can enslave only 1 type of units. :cringe:

OK, I think it would work for HP upgrade`s, but for strength, you`d still need to buy "armor & weapons" back at the home town :)

QUESTION : If I put 10 units with attack of 4, how strong will the Army get? 4 or a bit more?

I'd love to see this done but one of the main things that might hinder this is the fact that not all Unit flags are transmisable to armies.

Only the Attack/Deffence flags and Air Defence can't be used. This would mean that the player must start with both the army AND an aditional character.


Also, whereas the enemys dropping items is a good idea, building an airbace destroys the unit. Instead, you should carry the item with you to the local Bank/Tavern.

Another Victory typre could be Mass Regiside, where you must defeat all the bosses.

Hope I help. I'm off to do some testing with armys.

Some interesting ideas here... I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Keep in mind that building an airbase consumes the unit, so that might not be the best thing to do.

IMO a King unit would make a better hero than an army, because an army gets its abilities from the units it holds (and then only if they all share it) rather than its own abilities (most selections in the menu don't have any effect). A king unit could be upgradeable in a long chain, getting stronger and more effective along the way. Armies, AFAIK, can't be upgraded like that, and once you add a unit it can't be removed.

The A/D bonus for an army is 1/6 of the total sum of the strength (A/D respectively) of the units in it. So if you had an army of 4 swordsmen, the attack bonus would be (3+3+3+3)/6 = 2, and the defense bonus (2+2+2+2)/6 = 1.25. Combined with the extra MP, the army's stats would be 5/3.25/2.

I forgot the upgradeable king unit :blush:

How`s this then - a city with a resource needed for the next upgrade right after the boss` dungeon, to simulate gaining exp. after bringing down the badass?

You go and test, maybe you`ll be the first one to make a RPG for C3C :)

IMO a King unit would make a better hero than an army, because an army gets its abilities from the units it holds (and then only if they all share it) rather than its own abilities (most selections in the menu don't have any effect). A king unit could be upgradeable in a long chain, getting stronger and more effective along the way. Armies, AFAIK, can't be upgraded like that, and once you add a unit it can't be removed.
Hmm... that seems to be even better because you can add LOTS of different resources and it would basicaly be the same thing as "making experience".
But how do get the resources back in town is the question...:hmm:
OOOooo, i have an idea ... it's kinda silly but i'll say it anyway:crazyeye:.
Behind the dungeon boss there is a tile with a IMMOBILE worker (so the comp can't use it), and when you capture it, it turns into a USABLE worker that is STILL imobile, AND can only build airfields, AND he seems to be sitting on a resource that you need for upgrade :). So you build a colony, yey. And the big road that starts from your base and stops in front of every resource in the game will come in handy now.
(also no one should be able to pillage anything)

Or do it my way, so you have a base for fast healing in the barracks :)

storm, i think i was the first to try an RPG in civ (that i know of). the idea was a bit confusing, but fun.
you arrange the upgrading to go:
base unit-good1-bad1-good2-bad2-good3-bad3 etc..
all the upgrades require no tech, but different resources, so good1 unit needs good1 resource and so on.

then, you set up 2 other civs with lots of cities in a sequence of somw sort, with in one civ you have at intervals the good1, good2, etc. resources, and at the other civ, at intervals the bad1, bad2 etc.

so depending on who you declare war with, and how many cities you take, you can upgrade your hero to be good or evil.

if this in unclear then ask and i will explain better, maybe even send a basic biq with it implemented.

That's a good idea Quinzy. :) I don't remember hearing about that.

About accessing the resource, why not just put the boss unit in a city with the resource underneath, so that when you kill the boss you capture the city, get the resource, and can upgrade right there?

thanks! i kept it to myself cos i was planning to do an RPG a while ago, but decided not to.

Well, what if the Boss has alot more MP than you? He can`t use it cos he needs to be in the city..

Whats the difference between a good hero or an evil hero in civ3?

nothing bar the unit GFX :D

:D Well alrighty then, explain it in a bit more detail, and it goes in the first post with the rest of them :thumbsup:

Why would a boss unit need a lot of MP if he's in a dungeon? Do you want to have to chase him down? :p IMO it makes sense for bosses to be immobile and in a city. You could even have many minor civs representing different dungeons and the boss as a King unit (this whole RPG concept would work well in Regicide mode). Then you would have to defeat any minions in the city first before fighting the boss unit. If you win, the dungeon is defeated and the rest of its units are destroyed. :D

Why would a boss unit need a lot of MP if he's in a dungeon? Do you want to have to chase him down? :p IMO it makes sense for bosses to be immobile and in a city. You could even have many minor civs representing different dungeons and the boss as a King unit (this whole RPG concept would work well in Regicide mode). Then you would have to defeat any minions in the city first before fighting the boss unit. If you win, the dungeon is defeated and the rest of its units are destroyed. :D

That would work. And the players starting City/Camp/House, etc. can have a wounder in that gives a free "Airport" in every city!.

If you want to have bigger dungeons, then the city could be the place you have to get to.

Also, there could be some player-controlled Airbaces outside of important places, so that when you defeat a boss, you "Warp" there.

Again, I hope this helps!

What's the deal with airbases and warping? :confused:

Well, a tough boss could attack, and then retreat to heal, I dunno, just throwing some concepts :D

I don`t think they should be all in 1 place (city), they should be spread troughout the dungeon, and you do have to KILL `EM ALL! to get to the boss, just not while standing in 1 fugging tile.

Not all in one place, just the boss. You would still have to fight your way to the boss/city. It just seems more like an RPG- everything else is running all over the place, but the boss stays in his lair waiting for you to come to him.

[/2cents]

What's the deal with airbases and warping? :confused:
It means you won't have to go back through the dungeon for one thing. And it also means that the Airbase can get used for another.


and as for making the dungeons bigger, I suggest having the citys at the area where the boss is (maybe defended by a couple of drones so the AI will move the rest of its army) so that they can spawn units. And if you don't want them to spawn units, don't let that particular civ build units.

Here's how I would implement this concept.

1. Each Civ (rome, egypt) etc. would represent a different character class (wizard, warrior etc).

2. You decide what character class you want to be: warrior, thief whatever each with it's own set
of civ specific traits and unit upgrade path.

3. I'd set up a couple of bad guy civs e.g beasts and undead and scatter their units around the dungeon.
Each bad guy civ would also have a number of preplaced treasure (flag) units that can be captured by the
human player and returned to base camp for gold (to help with upgrades since gold rush is enabled) and
victory points. You are locked in a war with these bad guys and they will seriously hamper your journey
through the dungeon.

4. To give the game more of an RPG feel I'd set up some other civs who start with 1 king unit only and nothing
else (the Regicide victory condition allows a civ to exist without cities). These civs could function to give
you important information (via the diplomacy dialogue) or you could persuade them to join you (military alliance).

5. The human player starts with:
- one powerful hero unit with king (I agree with Weasel Op) and enslave ablilities and a badass upgrade path.
- one immobile settler unit (to build the base camp).

6. The map (dungeon) would be predefined of course and all human playable civs would have the
same starting location: the dungeon entrance (or the pub).

7. Modify the road graphic so it's transparent (invisible) and place roads on every available dungeon tile.
This means you only require colonies to hook up those resources to base camp (you would be able to produce
a colony building unit at base camp).

8. Turn off the pillage ability on all units to keep the roads intact. Now the only thing that can cut off your
supply of resources is if you fail to keep the tunnels clear.

9. Certain improvements could autospawn other base units from a different character class for you. In this way
you could add an upgradable wizard king unit to your adventuring party!

10. Base camp would be run by cantankerous gnomes who'd churn out your magic weapons (unit upgrade) and other goodies.

11. One thing that has been mentioned is that as you get further and further into the dungeon you get farther and farther
away from your base camp. This will make returning treasures, unit upgrades etc really tedious. One way to get around
this is to give your hero unit an enslave ability that produces more immobile settlers (the settler graphic could be
changed of course to supplies or something approriate). Alternatively, the enslaved unit could be a modified unit with
build airfield ability (as has Virote_Considon mentioned) - I find this more difficult to fit into the game logically though but
it could of course be a magic item that you procure from the dead bad guy.

12. Don't forget the teleport ability in the cracked editor - it could be used to teleport your units to a secret room!

13. Balance issues are tricky but I'd make the initial hero unit about 10 times as strong as the basic bad guy unit and his
best upgrade 25 times stronger than the basic bad guy. The bad guys would have a lot more starting units (20x as much
initially but they'd spawn or build units very slowly). Of course the bad guys king unit would be as powerful if not
more so than you but then you could have the edge if you build up an adventure party.

14. Upgrades are good ways of making each character class different.
Thief upgrades: all terrain as roads; zone of control; invisible
Wizard upgrades: recon; lethal bombardment; radar; enslave
Warrior upgrades: extra hit points; blitz; extra A/D.

A bit of fun...

http://www.3ddownloads.com/Strategy/Civilization%203/Mods/RPG_Concept/RPG.zip

Don't cheat by looking at the biq and text files before you play ;)

7. Modify the road graphic so it's transparent (invisible) and place roads on every available dungeon tile.
This means you only require colonies to hook up those resources to base camp (you would be able to produce
a colony building unit at base camp).

Just realised this doesn't fully work when combined with mrtn's excellent idea for impassable terrain to keep the wheeled baddies in their rooms because a road is going to allow them to cross that terrain. You'd maybe have to remove roads from the entrance and exit tiles of each room but this also means you'd have to place a colonist at each entrance and exit - a minimum of 2 colonies per room could add up to a lot - might be able to just make them very cheap.

I'm starting to quote myself so it's time to go to bed. zzzz.

Good stuff KA. A few of my own ideas, after reading that:

Only place strats under cities, and don't allow trading, so that you can only upgrade at certain key locations.

Make terrain output low and production costs high so that you don't rely on captured cities to churn out an army, but give some cities wonders that spawn extra units or place a special building in all cities.

Place a "veteran air units" building (but not "allow air trade", to isolate resources) in each city, so that the hero can "jump" out of each dungeon after capturing the city.

Add some capturable units that can upgrade to king units like your hero- perhaps different classes, like KA mentioned. When you capture an enemy city, you free them from captivity and they decide to join your party.

If you want to go for an epic feel, place a few small realms on the map that are in locked war/alliance with each other. Allow your party to join forces (diplomacy) with one or more.

Oh these are all very, very cool ideas :cool:

Imma DL the .biq in a few mins :goodjob:

May I suggest giving Military Great Leaders some kind of attack/defense stat? That might simulate having other characters join your "party," so to speak. :)

I don't know if this would work in C3C, but I think I've gotten some weird behavior (in Civ3 Vanilla) when I modified the rules so that multiple units had the "leader" flag checked.

I hope you enjoyed the game. It took me one whole hour to put that together :)

I was thinking, a good idea (once the basic game rules have been worked out) might be if people add one monster and one room to the biq. Or if they're feeling more adventurous a different civ/character class.

We can build up an entire dungeon filled with devious monsters and traps in no time at all.

When I kill my third spider the game crashes :(

It works okay for you? BTW, it looks amazing :goodjob:

I haven't fully tested it; it's just something I threw together in under an hour. The graphics are Rhye's underworld terrain and Dark Sheer's walls of course.

It works perfectly fine for me! It was very fun to play!

(Also, I think judging by what it said on 3DDownloads, I was the first to download?)

I think it happens when the game re-spawns the monsters, I have only 96 RAM, I think that might be the problem :(

storm, do you want me to upload a very basic biq of my idea?

Yes, please do, I`m sure others would like to check it out too :)

Where is Dark Sheer? Anyone seen him? :hmm:

ok, here it is but mind you, it is very very basic.