Apple has just announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/05bootcamp.html) (beta) software to support dual boot of Intel Macs into Windows XP and Mac OS. Can someone try this with Civ IV and report. I'll be buying an Intel Mac sooner, rather than later, if this works.

I wonder how this will affect sales of the Mac version, or future Mac game development in general. I will still be buying the Mac version, because constant dual-booting is not worth the small $$ savings. But I'm travelling in June and would love to play Civ IV on the plane. If there's no Mac version before I leave I don't mind booting into XP for the plane trip.

Apple has just announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/05bootcamp.html) (beta) software to support dual boot of Intel Macs into Windows XP and Mac OS. Can someone try this with Civ IV and report. I'll be buying an Intel Mac sooner, rather than later, if this works.

Thanks for making our biggest fears come true so quickly! :)

Yes, Civ4 will work with Boot Camp to allow you to natively play under XP. It'd be awfully nice of you to buy the Mac version when it comes out though. ;)

Thanks for making our biggest fears come true so quickly! :)

Yes, Civ4 will work with Boot Camp to allow you to natively play under XP. It'd be awfully nice of you to buy the Mac version when it comes out though. ;)

You have nothing to fear on my account sir Brad. I fully intend to buy the Mac version. However I have a 12 hr flight coming up in June (SFO-Frankfurt-Venice, and then back from Athens). Time flies :D much more quickly playing Civ.

I currently own a PC, which I use for Civ, Quicken, and the occassional Windows Media file. I also own an aging Mac desktop (Quicksilver 867 MHz G4). And a G4 iBook which would struggle with Civ 4. Ideally I could replace all 3 with a MacBook.

Dual booting is not a solution for daily work (and play), I will need the Mac version. But it would work for that long flight and it seems unlikely the Mac version would be out by then. Boot Camp is a perfect solution, I am very happy.

I was going to put off a MacBook purchase until late this summer and take the iBook and Civ3 on the trip. Now I will probably purchase in May and dual-boot Civ my way to Europe. I will place my Civ Mac order when I return.

It'd be awfully nice of you to buy the Mac version when it comes out though. ;)

You know, I understand the big swell of excitement over Boot Camp, but in the long term I'm not so sure there is going to be a huge effect on Mac software sales. Simply put, there is a reason that most Mac users use a Mac, and that is the Mac OS. I for one am not going to go out and buy a pricey new x86 Mac just to go out and pay an additional $200 for a copy of Windows XP just so I can run a few Windows apps on an operating system that I don't like.

Rest assured Brad that, when I have a Mac with the balls to run CIV, it will be Aspyr's port that is on my hard drive.

JoAT

You know, I understand the big swell of excitement over Boot Camp, but in the long term I'm not so sure there is going to be a huge effect on Mac software sales. Simply put, there is a reason that most Mac users use a Mac, and that is the Mac OS. I for one am not going to go out and buy a pricey new x86 Mac just to go out and pay an additional $200 for a copy of Windows XP just so I can run a few Windows apps on an operating system that I don't like.

Rest assured Brad that, when I have a Mac with the balls to run CIV, it will be Aspyr's port that is on my hard drive.

JoAT

I agree completely JoAT. :goodjob:

Here! Here! Well said. Boot Camp fits into Apple's product range specifically to provide a security blanket for switchers. A few people might buy a Mac so that they can run Windows, but they will still be Windows users. Mac users want games in Quartz windows, with their OS X toys available in the background. And they don't like spending dollars with M$ for VPC and XP, either.

Don't worry, Brad! The people are with you! For me, I'll buy the Mac-Civ IV just to keep my hard-drive up-partiontioned, to avoid that awful Windows interface, and to run my OSX programs in the background.

Now, btw, how is that little CIV IV Mac project coming along.... pant... pant...

Now, btw, how is that little CIV IV Mac project coming along.... pant... pant...

It's coming along extremely well. Most (all?) known graphics issues are resolved, the game is now stable for very long periods of time, networking between Intel Macs and the PC is working (still need to do PPC Mac networking), and most major functionality is there (we still need to click on all the menus and buttons to see if they work). The World Builder works, FWIW. :) During the beta, we'll probably test with a few mods to get those working if they're not already.

We're going to be entering QA and testing with it very shortly. I expect the QA/beta period to be somewhat long simply because it's a complex game, but I don't foresee any large roadblocks in our way. Depending on when the next PC patch is released, we may or may not roll it in before Mac Civ4 ships - too early to say yet.

OMG Brad you tease!!!!!! :devil:

Hey... we're getting closer... confidence is high.... isn't about time for a Civ 4 forum? :)

Oh no. This is bad.

I'm supposed to be finishing my dissertation and doing my PhD defense over the next 2-4 months, then hopefully moving into an actual job. I'm already having enough problems keeping myself from buying a copy of XP and WinCiv4 to tide me over - actually having MacCiv4 released could do very bad things to my productivity!

P.S. As of today, the research for my dissertation is virtually complete! I just have to wait for the final batch of data to be ready, then I can dump it in the hopper, push the button, and have the final results (a matter of 15 minutes of work and 1-2 days of computer time). Now I just have to write...

Now I just have to write...

I'd rather be doing the research than this part. Don't you have a wife? Oh, that's for typing.

I've already got almost 100 pages, and the remainder will be full of a LOT of plots. So I can have plenty of stuff without having to write that many words.

Thanks for making our biggest fears come true so quickly! :)

Yes, Civ4 will work with Boot Camp to allow you to natively play under XP. It'd be awfully nice of you to buy the Mac version when it comes out though. ;)

Brad, I have ordered a MacBook Pro because I like the OS, not because it is a nice-looking machine and I intend to keep running Mac applications on it, not Windows. I will only run the occasional Windows application that does not yet exist on the Mac (such as the SAP interface to the office :ack: ).

I can guarantee that if future games are published under the same conditions (simultaneous releases, cross-platform games, identical feature sets), Mac users with Boot Camp will purchase the Mac versions.

I can guarantee that if future games are published under the same conditions (simultaneous releases, cross-platform games, identical feature sets), Mac users with Boot Camp will purchase the Mac versions.

Of course, but usually that's out of our control (example: Civ3).

Oh no. This is bad.

I'm supposed to be finishing my dissertation and doing my PhD defense over the next 2-4 months, then hopefully moving into an actual job. I'm already having enough problems keeping myself from buying a copy of XP and WinCiv4 to tide me over - actually having MacCiv4 released could do very bad things to my productivity!

You fool! You didn't do your research on Civ?? What about the social interactions of civ players in the forums? Maybe the psychological feelings and reactions of someone who plays Civ? How about the technical explanation and design of a full conversion mod for Civ (good for a comp sci major)? c'mon man you should be incorporating school and work into what you love to do... and that's Civ!!!! :D

Brad, do you have any idea of release date? I'm wondering if I need to start looking for a different birthday present for my mate (June 7). Let me know if it won't be out by then - I can take it.

(and BTW, I would always prefer the native mac version to running it in XP)

You fool! You didn't do your research on Civ??
Hey, if you can come up with a way to tie Civ into neutrino physics, I'd be all for it. I'm not that creative.

Hey, if you can come up with a way to tie Civ into neutrino physics, I'd be all for it. I'm not that creative.

Use Civ to simulate the collision of 2 neutrinos.

Use the editor to create with 1 long continent. Place the "Muon" tribe at one end, and put the "Tau" tribe at the other. Put all of the resources in the center of the continent. Then watch them collide!!!

That has "Nobel" written all over it. :crazyeye: :mischief: :lol:

JoAT

Hey, dissertation boy, as a Mac user who crosses the aisle regularly JUST to play Civ 4, let me say this to you:

Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid.



P.S. Was "disertation boy" too much? Sorry.

Dissertation consternation aside, I figgered I weigh in on Boot Camp.

I am looking forward to the day I can get an MacIntel with Boot Camp. And I will (gasp) invest in whatever form of that other operating system is available. Unfortunately, I have a need for it.

The beauty for me is that I can replace two aging machines (neither of which will handle any version of C3C or CivIV) with one.

I've read Brad's concerns here and elsewhere and rest assured: software purchases for the other side will be minimal. My investment in software, including Civ IV will be for the Mac.

Is there any other way???????

I acquired a MacBook this weekend (my iMac died the week before) and managed to get XP installed on a small partition yesterday after locating a suitable CD with SP2 already applied. I then installed Civilzation IV on it - the copy of Civ IV was a Christmas present from my sister who assumed I had a PC.

It runs well. The graphics are better than on the only other PC I've run the game on - a very low-end Toshiba - and the response time is a lot better, too, despite both having the same amount of physical RAM. Not got to the end of a game yet to see if it still runs quickly.

However three of the drivers supplied by Boot Camp are yet to receive proper Microsoft certification due to the hardware being so new, so there's a few stability issues.

I need Windows for work purposes only, and have relied on Virtual PC in the past for that.

I'm sure those "real-hardcore" gamers, who would use windows just becouse it has more games, already bought a PC with windows for that.

People who buy mac ports do it becouse they want their games to run on their prefered platform. I don't see how boot camp is going to effect this.

And I don't see why only religius mac zealots would want games to run natively. After all, it would be annoying if you have to boot into an other OS just to run some game, regardless of wether you are a mac lunix or windows user. Not to mention you would have to buy a copy windows to.

Blizzard recently stated that they will continue native mac support. Seems like they keep their cool. :cool:

But maybe I'm just being a naive optimist.


(I don't want to be rude Brad, but my biggest wish is that porting houses will be jobless becouse more game devolepers start following Blizzard's example in mac support...;) )

Brad,

Any word on whether Civ4 Mac will run on a Core Duo Mac Mini? I think I read somewhere that you hinted it might not. Have you been able to look into any further?

Rest assured Brad that, when I have a Mac with the balls to run CIV, it will be Aspyr's port that is on my hard drive.
http://www.civforum.de/images/smilies/up.gif

[...] I do have a Mac with the balls to run CIV 4 and it will be Aspyr's port that will be on my hard drive.

Any word on whether Civ4 Mac will run on a Core Duo Mac Mini? I think I read somewhere that you hinted it might not. Have you been able to look into any further?

No, I don't think we have one yet, although I could be wrong. Ask again in a few weeks.

hey brad, this seems the right thread to ask you in since it's revolving around boot camp. whats the feeling in aspyr and other gaming companies about macs now that porting may appear unnecessary because of the ability to dual boot? can this belief be offset by increased market share for the mac? (basically im asking for a state of the union on mac games)

-alec

MacWorld has a nice 2 page article on "Parallels Workstation" (PW), a 'virtual machine' for Intel Macs (similar to Virtual PC, but unlike VPC [which runs on PowerPC Macs], it doesn't have to emulate the Intel chip, therefore runs MUCH faster than VPC.)

Unlike Bootcamp, which requires you to reboot into XP, PW (like VPC) opens XP (or Linix, or ...) in a window inside OS X.

2 downsides:

1 it's still beta
2 it's not free like Bootcamp. (Beta is free, but final version will cost $50 or so)

http://www.macworld.com/2006/04/firstlooks/parallelsfl/index.php

My reading on this indicates that a virtual machine approach is unlikely to be able to exploit the graphic hardware fully, and that this may mean that Parallels, VMWare etc. may have trouble supporting 3D gaming effectively. So don't hold your breath for this to provide a way to play Civ4 in an XP/Vista window. Brad should not pack his bags at Aspyr just yet ;)

I'm not much of a computer guy, so hopefully this post is in the right place.

I just bought a MacBook Pro 17", installed bootcamp, partitioned the harddrive, installed Windows XP SP2, and then installed Civ4.

I have found that, even with the 1.61 patch, the game's graphics suddenly become severely distorted to the point of unplayability after about an hour of playing, although the time does vary on occassion. Civ4 will then close briefly to allow the ATI Radeon X1600 to notify you that it has quit and restart, and whether or not you want to send an error notification to ATI. After that, the game will run smoothly for another 15-20 minutes before the severe graphics distortions return. Shortly thereafter, the screen goes black and a few moments after that, the sound switches from the game's music to an annoying buzzing sound. This barrage is then topped off by the computer freezing and requiring a complete manual restart.

Hopefully someone else has encountered this or a similar problem and can tell a knuckle-dragger like me how to fix it. If not, then just a head's-up to anyone considering switching from PC to Mac with the intention of getting the best of both 'worlds.'


Scouts Out.

Lima,

I've been running a 15" MBP with BootCamp and Civ4 since Memorial Day. It has performed beautifully. I didn't do anything out of the ordinary. I didn't adjust the graphics settings but it seems pretty high (higher than it was on my old PC with integrated graphics). I have run it on the internal display and an external 19" (not wide) display. I'm sure you've done this but I'll ask anyway if you installed the Apple drivers.

And off topic, I ordered the Mac version from the MacGameStore on June 28. It looks like it hasn't even shipped yet, although order status shows it was completed on June 28. They haven't answered their phone or responded to emails. Have other people had problems with them?

Lima,

I've been running a 15" MBP with BootCamp and Civ4 since Memorial Day. It has performed beautifully. I didn't do anything out of the ordinary. I didn't adjust the graphics settings but it seems pretty high (higher than it was on my old PC with integrated graphics). I have run it on the internal display and an external 19" (not wide) display. I'm sure you've done this but I'll ask anyway if you installed the Apple drivers.

And off topic, I ordered the Mac version from the MacGameStore on June 28. It looks like it hasn't even shipped yet, although order status shows it was completed on June 28. They haven't answered their phone or responded to emails. Have other people had problems with them?

That's where I ordered my copy from as well. I paid for Priority shipping - it shipped on the 28th, arrived the 3rd. I suspect you'll see your copy soon if the order status was completed on the 28th. Note that USPS didn't have any real-time tracking info online until it was already delivered.

That's where I ordered my copy from as well. I paid for Priority shipping - it shipped on the 28th, arrived the 3rd. I suspect you'll see your copy soon if the order status was completed on the 28th. Note that USPS didn't have any real-time tracking info online until it was already delivered.

Shortly after I posted the USPS updated their site to show it was at my local P.O. It'll either be on my doorstep when I get home (nobody at home to sign) or I'll have to pick it up on Saturday. If it had arrived on the 3rd (like I expected, that's why I was pissed) I would have been home to receive.

Anyway, since the Mac version has problems I can stick with the Boot Camp version until things improve there. I'll give it a try this weekend just to make sure I have the same problems as everyone else.

Has anyone had success with Civ 4 under Parallels or Boot Camp with a MacBook?

Not me, don't have one. BUT I know, almost for sure, that there's no chance under parallels due to the way it does video card emulation. I also am certain I saw a post in one of the recent threads from someone running it "just fine" on a MacBook under boot camp.

And off topic, I ordered the Mac version from the MacGameStore on June 28. It looks like it hasn't even shipped yet, although order status shows it was completed on June 28. They haven't answered their phone or responded to emails. Have other people had problems with them?
To finish this off, the package arrived today. Postmark is July 3. So it did ship USPS priority and arrived in 2 days (not counting July 4). They just lied about the shipping on the 28th.

Not me, don't have one. BUT I know, almost for sure, that there's no chance under parallels due to the way it does video card emulation.

Yeah, Parallels will not allow you to run a game that uses 3D hardware, as Civ4 does.

Thanks for making our biggest fears come true so quickly! :)

Yes, Civ4 will work with Boot Camp to allow you to natively play under XP. It'd be awfully nice of you to buy the Mac version when it comes out though. ;)

Works beautifully on the XP side of a bootcamp installation (Mac Mini).

Has anyone had success with Civ 4 under Parallels or Boot Camp with a MacBook?

Bootcamp, Yes :)
The only problem is the lack of a right click; you can get a configurator though so that fn + click = right click, but I use the G to set a goto anyway.


Haven't tried it under Parallels yet, but I would expect wonderful things, but I would also expect worse performance.

Parallels is really impressive; I run two windows server 2003/SQL Server2005 and a windows XP machine all on top of OSX without problems.

Haven't tried it under Parallels yet, but I would expect wonderful things
Don't bet any money on it. I don't believe Parallels can emulate the video driver interfaces that Civ4 demands.

I wouldn't expect virtualisation to be the best option for gaming in any case - you'll always have some resources taken up by the host OS.

Otherwise Parallels is fantastic, IMO.

I have to agree with Alan - my expectation is that it wouldn't run at all. And that's actually the best-case scenario.

:eek: What's worst case? Your Mac explodes in a ball of fire?

:eek: What's worst case? Your Mac explodes in a ball of fire?
Hey, that's what's been happening to the Dell's (http://gadgets.elliottback.com/2006/07/01/exploding-dell-laptop/) lately...

Hey, that's what's been happening to the Dell's (http://gadgets.elliottback.com/2006/07/01/exploding-dell-laptop/) lately...

could've been a mac ;)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/20/apple_recalls_batteries/


Works beautifully on the XP side of a bootcamp installation (Mac Mini).

does the mac version work beautifully on the OSX side?

:eek: What's worst case? Your Mac explodes in a ball of fire?
Kernel panics, corrupted files, a destablized system...

Basically, there is exactly zero possibility that it will manage to do anything productive. So, the best case is that it does nothing... since anything it might possibly do would be negative.