I'd like to add a slavic civ. Rather than picking one country in peticular, I'm just going to add a civ called the "Slavs". Kinda like the "Mongols" or the "Celts" except, "Slavs".

I'm using existing graphics on the forums (or from the box); there should be enough for a generic slavic civ.

So for a leaderhead I'm wondering if Brennus (PTW, celts) could pass as a slavic king. The only thing I'm realy unsure of is the blue face paint in the ancient age. I have no idea if any of the ancient/classical slavs used that.
And on the topic of leaders, who'd a good leader be? The prince of Kiev that adopted orthodox Christianity (Prince Whatshisface)? Is there some better choice?
I think I could come up with Military Great leaders. Samo, Svatopluk..

UU's: I'd like several choices.
For one, a swordsman/medieval infantry replacement could be used, as slavic warriors were often a boon and a burden to the Byzantine Empire (Slavs fought against them, and alongside them, ussually as mercenaries).
Maybe a horseman UU? I don't know about the slavs specifically, but many great horse fighting civs came from the same region the slavs migrated from.
Some kind of ancient age berserker type unit? There's alot of graphics for these sword swinging barbarian types, the ones Rome was always squabbling with.

City list: Easy enough, for generic slavs, I could take the names of major cities from slavic east european countries. Kiev, Bratislav, etc..

Any input would be appreciated

Hmm, though it is an interresting idea, it seems quite complicated to me.
The various slavic peoples feature so many nations and historical personalities, its quite hard to make one generic slavic "race", which imho did never exist.

Why not adding some specific "tribe"?
e.g. Bulgarians

Both expression(race and tribe) do not fit well for what I wanted to explain.

I'd like it to be a little more versitile. I don't want to limit myself to just one country.
It works best if you try not to think of the civ in modern terms. Like the Celts. They were one culture group, composed of many different tribes, and developed into several different countries.
The Slavs, technically, is used to describe a linguist group, but they weren't so varied during the early medieval period.
Plus this way, there's more history for me to pull some UU's from.

BTW, Bulgarians probably had turkish origins, so I don't think they're a good posterboy for the Slavs (if I wanted one)

Boleslaw Chrobry of the Poles would be a good slavic leader, so would his father, Miesko I.

I'd love to help but very busy; I'll let you know if I'm avliable anytime. And how about making Alijha Izetbegovic Slavic leader? Okay that was an absolute joke!

Make Josip Broz Tito the slavic leader! Our greatest son :)

No on the Brennus, no on the blue paint, no on the berserking. I`m slavic, I know what I`m talking about :)

Yes Stormrage does know all about it but why Tito? He was a Communist...don't tell me you still think Communism is better than Democrocy? Or do you still think that the Communist really held free elections?

No, but the south slavs were never as prosperous or unified as much as under his command :)

Also, I don`t belive "Democracy" has free elections either. Democracy doesn`t work if it envolves more than 3 persons ;)

Correct! You saying that the three presidential system is bad? Democorcy is only good as the masses.

This has gone waay OT. Sorry for the thread-jacking Bungus :blush:

This was about the Slavic Peoples so not too OT. But I'll help in any way possilbe the UU should be JNA Infantry.

for the unique unit: no horse unit. in the early middle ages, they were foot soldiers. at the time the slavs entered the balcans massively in order to settle down and not just to plunder, they were ruled by the avars, nomads on horses from central asia, like the huns or later the early hungarians.

the name of the bulgarians is derived from a sub-group-caste what so ever of the avars. whenever "avars" left the avar kingdom, they named themself "bulgars". these names were traditional and meaningful. the name avar existed for centuries before the "avars", which later emerged in the balcans, even existed. bulgars merged with the local slavs.

"slavic" in this time is more to be understood as a concept of living and surviving by a specific way of producing foods, shields and trade :) (as well as "hunnic" or "frankish") than an ethnicity or nationality.

so the bulgars are as well slavs as the czechs or croatians (croatian derives most likely from an avar term). what is most striking in this time is the concept of the slavs to organize themselves. slavic people (gentes) emerged only in contact with sedentary, organized (proto-)states like the frankish or byzantine empire, which gave them names. the slavs didn't structure and build empires but formed alliances ad-hoc, perhaps like the early germanics (the marcomanns or even the frankish foederati in late rome).

but they formed and adopted political structures through the influence of other empires. i mentioned the bulgarians, which had a structure like the late avarians, a khan as the head of state. Samo was actually a frank who organized the slavs. the vikings formed states which will be become essentially russia. the slavs imported nearly every word for social strata likes kralj = Karl = Charles = Charlemagne
knez = König = King
units: a medieval spearman perhaps, who can move fast, or regardless of terrain. and a t-34.
the slavs in the early middle ages were also good sailors (small boats, could carry them, they tried under avar rule even to capture constantinopel by sea)

so a lot of information.

i think it would be best to transform the russian civ a bit, inserting some wester slavic citites, leaders and so on. change the scientific trait to religous or agricultural.

double post, sorry

"slavic" in this time is more to be understood as a concept of living and surviving by a specific way of producing foods, shields and trade (as well as "hunnic" or "frankish") than an ethnicity or nationality.WRONG! Slavic is an ethnicity and I think the Slavs believe that; after all each Slavic group has at one time or another claimed to be a 'constituent nation'. Slavic is as much an ethnicity as Hispanic.

you didn't read the "in this time" by which i meant the early middle ages. the concept of ethnicity changed since the 8th century significantly, don't you agree with that?

You "in this time" which is the present tense so I thought you meant know; you meant to "in that time", 'this' is the present tense. As for agreeing with that kinda.

THanks for the info guys
I think for a leader I want to stasy away from modern times. Someone from the middle ages would be better, earlier the better. There was less distiction among the groups of slavs then. If the leader is from some nation that doesn't exist anymore, it couldn't be affiliated to any one nation and would suite the culture group as a whole.
Stormrage, aside from the face paint, is Brennus such a stretch? The other ages look pretty generic.

GWB: Whats the JNA infantry? I'd like to avoid modern ages unless its suitable for a number of slavic countries.
T-34? Absolutely no, thats soviet.
Spearman, medieval/ancient infantry is good, but I could use a name.

Czechs leaders:
Ancient: Samo
Middle Ages: Charles IV.
Industrial: -
Modern: Tomáš Garrigue Masaryk

Military leaders:
Jan Zizka
Jan Rohác z Dubé
Prokop Holy
Albrecht z Valdstejna

Scientific leaders:
Jan Komensky
Jan Hus
Prokop Divis
Jaroslav Heyrovský
František Laurin
Václav Klement
Stanislav Bechyne
Jan Perner
Jakub Krcín z Jelcan
Frantisek Krizík
Mikulás z Kadane
Josef Gerstner
Josef Bozek
Josef Rosenauer
Josef Ressel
Karel Klíc
Viktor Kaplan
Jan Jánský
Jan Kaspar

Use them for Slavs how you want...

Tycho Brahe as a Czech? :lol: The thought is somehow amusing ...

Mendel and Brahe deleted...

i would propose Vladimir I as the leader (958 - 1014) he was the one who adopted the orthodox christianity to thee Kiever Rus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_I_of_Kiev

But Kieven Rus WAS FAR FROM THE ONLY SLAVIC GROUP. Kiven Rus was more Russian.

Piernik made an excellent LH for Kasimierz Wielki, you can find it here (civ.org.pl). Granted he's Polish, but the Polish were at one time the largest Slavic Empire, ruling most of Eastern Europe, from Lithuania to Moldavia, including parts of Hungary, Moravia Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.

JNA (Jugoslavenska Narodna Armija) - Yugoslav People`s Army was the military force of Yugoslavija, and as the cuntry it defended it consisted of Serbian, Croatian, Slovenian, Macedonian, Bosnian, Montenegrian and Albanian (minority) soldiers. Also, some people say it was at one time the 3rd military force in Europe, measuring in strength.

I agree with the fast spearman idea for the UU.

I kinda like the JNA but okay.

****ing Whore. Site logged me out as soon as I jit post, discarding a couple paragrapphs of text. I hope this site gets hit by a bus


what was I saying. GFUICK **** ****.

LH:Kasimierz Wielki or Vladimir I. Kieven Rus weren't russians and although russia borrowed much of their culture, Kiev didn't directly develope into russia.

JNA I'm still not so sure about. It was mostly made up of serbs, and it dissolution was the cause of alot of conflict in Yugoslavia. Also, what differenciated the JNA from other armies of its day? A UU should be culturaly unique or use some uncommon weapons of tactics. I'd like 3 UU, so I'm not definately saying no, but I'm a bit skeptical.
One UU wil be the Druzhina, a detachment of select troops in personal service of a chieftain or ruler (throughout the middle ages). A ancient age spearman or swordsman unit woul also be good, if I can find a name.

Družina would tranlsate to "Fellowship" :D
Never heard of it, I hope you`ll have a nice civilopedia entry :)

I hope this site gets hit by a bus.
Sorry for the OT but that's just funny. :rotfl::rotfl:
Can i please quote you in my sig ... pleeeeeeeaasssse. :)

Sure, go for it

@Stormrage: Yes, Druzhina is the most legitimate unique unit for the Slavs, IMO. In no small part because they go back a long ways, it'll difficult to associate to any one country.

Looking into the JNA more, I may use them, as coming up with a 3rd unit will be hard. I'm thinking of naming them the more generic "partisan", that way they could cover the period during and before WW2. Plus, from gameplay perspective, a Guerrilla UU hasn't been done yet and its good to have UU's spread out.
Now all I need is a graphic that I haven't used yet..

Czechs leaders:
Ancient: Samo
Middle Ages: Charles IV.
Industrial: -
Modern: Tomáš Garrigue Masaryk

Err,

Samo was a Frank.

Charles IV was a German.

I'd pick some Great Moravian prince, maybe Mojmir or Svatopluk II. Great Moravia was one of the first truly Slavic empires. Kievan Rus and its leaders are of course a good option too.

Svatopluk I. His son kinda sucked.
I thought about using one of the Moravia kings. As the first centralized slavic kingdom, it is representative of the slavs.
I'm learning towards Vladimir I. I'm influeced by the fact that in my Earth mod, there's way more space to fill in the Ukraine than by the present Czech republic.

Svatopluk I. His son kinda sucked.

Right, my mistake.

I thought about using one of the Moravia kings. As the first centralized slavic kingdom, it is representative of the slavs.
I'm learning towards Vladimir I. I'm influeced by the fact that in my Earth mod, there's way more space to fill in the Ukraine than by the present Czech republic.

That's always a problem when making a scenario ;)

Would you consider my balcan set as a slavic set?
It is more byzantine looking, but i dont think that the slavs really had a different architecture before the characteristic russian one.

@varwnos: Unfortunetly, because of the 5 cultural group limit, I can't add any city sets. I'm doing this for the Earth2000 mod, with civs from all over the globe, so I don't have any room to get creative with cultural groups. I wish I could though. I mean, ****, I have to use the americana group for the Zulu (better than the Mid-east group Zulus were assigned to by default).

I think I have things mostly figured out for the Slavs. Note this is only what I chose, to fit my specific needs:

Leaderhead: Prince Vladimir I (Kiev, adopted Orthodox Christianity, establish strong relations with Byzantine Empire)

Traits: Agricultural, Religious (the first is obvious, the second is debatable, but since I'm going with Vlad, I think i makes sense. Plus, gameplay reasons)

UU: Druzhina (Primary UU. Elite guard infantry unit of the middle ages. Utah's elf spearman or swordsman (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148981) surprisingly well suited.)
Other UU: Partisan (Guerilla replacement, as western slavs often resorted to these tactics to resist germans, austrians, russians, and fight each other, during the 20th century. Plus, guerrilla UU's are not in Civ3. Utah's Separatist (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=813863&postcount=595). I have a resized version in E2K.OB)
Macevalac (Means swordsman in serbian. This one's a push, but Slavic swordsman did alot of melee fighting in the first millenium AD, so much so the Byzantines were always uses them as mercenaries. Using PTW Gallic swordsman or Utah's Celtic Soldier (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=120169). If anyone has a better name, please share)

City list:
Kiev (cause Vlad and I need to fill the Ukraine)
Warsaw
Bratislava
Belgrade
Bucharest
Sarajevo
Zagreb
L'vov
Minsk?
Nitra
Devin
Cracow
Split
Vinnitsa
Brasow
Mostar
Prejidor
Nis
Zemplin
Craiova
Uzhgorod
Szolnok (I like this name)
Ducove
Dubrovnik
Savaria
Zalavar
Banja Lunka
Pitesti
Rivne
Poltava

Add:
Mostar
Banja Lunka
Prejidor
to the Cities list.

Ok.

Are the other ones alright? Minsk? Not sure if that one's founded by the Kiev or the real Russians

Add Split and Dubrovnik to the list.

And its Mačevalac. I know there is no "č" in english, but then call it "Machevalac".

Yeah, I figured as much. I looked and I looked, but I couldn't fine the č on my keyboard.

I'll edit that list, throwing yours and William's cities in the middle somewhere, unless they're important places.
Actually, I know of Split, just didn't know it was founded by slavs

Well it wasn`t, it was founded by the Romans, like half of other european cities. But its realy slavic now :D

Dubrovnik is realy, realy important :)

Well the funky c thing is in the charcater map.

Nis wasnt founded by slavs either, since it was the ancient city of Naissus.

Well Sarejevo and Mostar are Slavic as is Nis and the others.

"Moonstar of Limbo, grant me the power of Mo(n)star!" :)

Since the slavs came to the area relatively late, it is to be expected that many cities already existed there.

Don't downgrade the Slavs contributions to society; they did come late; they developed late since the Germans used them as Slavs...remember Slava?

Rather take every city off the list that wasn't slavic in origin, I'll just remove the ones that are already on other civ's lists (surprisinly, russia doesn't use Kiev. Although it is slavic. But it later had an important part in there history. whatever)