To Dominate, or not Dominate. That is the question.

Situation: We're about to drop our first settler on The Other Continent. Daghie has suggested that we grab enough tiles from the soon-to-be former TNT lands to pursue a Domination Victory.

I think that this idea has enough merit to explore; and I think the implications are complex enough that it warrants its own thread.

The tactical problems are generally more easily solved than the strategic...and we're quickly approaching the point that a strategic decision will need to be made.

As I see it... the biggest risk is that such a campaign would consume too many resources that we'll need to fight MIA. The biggest strength is the increased unit support that would allow us to warmonger in Republic.

Thoughts? Comments?

Just my penny's worth...
All win conditions depend on some form of domination. Whether it's creating client states for a space victory or simply going in and conquering. Minimizing each teams core is the critical piece to all equations.

So the way I see it we've already delivered a bit of a death blow to TNT. If we cut off their capital and coastals you can stick a fork in them regardless if they're still alive.

The next step is to take notches off MIA. This will be the true battle and one that needs great focus.

I think if we are the first to mil tradition we could easily take a domination victory without going to war with MIA. I'm sure they will not allow that to happen though.

I'm not sure we can win this without going to war with MIA. They are gearing up for war - mark it. The only question in my mind is when and how we fight them. We've got all we need for a combined arms slugfest. If we grab the sort of land that KB and Daghie are advocating... we could afford a pretty good sized combined arms army...

Someone was worrying about corruption if we get too large. I don't think that should concern us as long as our core is strong. Given the early work of this team in planning the core, that will not be a problem.

Someone was worrying about corruption if we get too large. With the puppet-master of specialists on board (Bede) I am not sweating that part in the least. We are agricultural. We can convert food into gold, and gold into beakers.

And something tells me that a lack of that subtle understanding is what's holding back our purple colored farmer friends.

And that... may be their undoing.

Another factor is whether Nuts will stay true to our agreement. As for now, we are at peace with them for a lot of turns beyond MT. If they honor that, we have the possibility to fight MIA with cavs and still not having to keep massive defense for our cities overseas. If they play us....they play us.

So what is the alternative to Domination?

I agree with Whomp - war with MIA seems inevitable, and surely will be the war to end all wars. That much of our planing/policy should be fixed. I think we have the balance of our 50 turns, then it hits the fan.

Regarding Battle Isle, my thought is that if we choose something other than Domination we would have to go with a plan that incorporates a large and effective Rapid Deployment Force (four galleon, four frigates, four cannon, four muskets and eight cavalry might do) that does nothing but slash and burn, then run.

We wouldn't be able to keep the Nuts (or MIA) from holding territory, but could probably keep them from growing large and effective cities that could threaten in a space-race.

If that course is wise (it sounds fun, but lost of fun decisions aren't wise) then having the smallest, most defensable, lux-grabbiest encleves is perfect. Not only could we make them tough nuts to crack, they would be sally points for raids and therefore enticing targets to the Nuts that we could easily afford to loose but would bleed them white while our RDF ripped them a new sphincter.

There may be other long-term plans for victory that don't include domination, but I'm not that creative.

Okay, I split the post in two. Whenever I see an exceptionally long post I think that people may fear me somewhat insane :crazyeye:

The biggest advantage I see to a non-dom win is that it requires less trust of the D'Nuts.

My nightmare scenario is that if we choose to carve out a nice province in TNT, that when we go at it with MIA the Nuts attack when we could not afford to do anything about it. It would give the Nuts and entire continent to develop while we and MIA are in a knife fight for our lives. Not a bad deal for the nuts.

I suppose in my mind it boils down to two questions.
1) Can we get the kind of military we will need without Dom?
2) Can we trust/work with the Nuts diplomatically? I'm afraid I'm not really an MSM/AIM guy, so I am generally out of that loop and don't have a feel for that. Is there a MA goal we can cast that is attractive enough to the Nuts that they will stick with it yet will allow us to 'slingshot' on to our ultimate goal?

The only one I can think of is to propose allowing the Nuts to 'define' our goal with TNT (i.e. elimination or just a smack down), getting their 'permission' to start our province and offering them the same chance to attack/carve a territory in MIA.

If we can sell it, or the diplos think they would buy it, then there might be some possibilities for the Dom win.

Sorry guys, if I were a better player I would have strong opinions or, Heaven forfend, answers. As it is I will simply throw out annoying questions.

Okay, I split the post in two. Whenever I see an exceptionally long post I think that people may fear me somewhat insane :crazyeye: Oh, no, we don't fear it...we're quite sure on that point...but that's what makes you so lovable. :p

As it is I will simply throw out annoying questions.
Actually you make some extremely good points. I think you're very good at discerning how we might overcome any reluctance on the part of D'nuts. :)

Domination has my vote... from what I understand we'll lose the post war. which is nutz if you ask me :crazyeye:

Just my penny's worth...
All win conditions depend on some form of domination. Whether it's creating client states for a space victory or simply going in and conquering. Minimizing each teams core is the critical piece to all equations.

So the way I see it we've already delivered a bit of a death blow to TNT. If we cut off their capital and coastals you can stick a fork in them regardless if they're still alive.

The next step is to take notches off MIA. This will be the true battle and one that needs great focus.

The Senor from Cheecago has put it succintly. If we carve out a nice colony in TNT's northlands for farming specialists I don't think it matters what Donuts do in the south.

KB's RDF force is right up there with one of scout's "ideas", as how many troops can you commit to battle when a werewolf is hanging off your coasts just looking for a place to land?

And yes, the real battle will be in the south and we had best be ready for it. Driving to cavalry is our best shot. BTW do we have native horses?

yes we have horses just north of Ignoramus. We have everything native that's possible as soon as Spite is settled

let's hope we have saltpeter.

let's hope we have saltpeter.

Gee thanks. I was starting to feel comfortable...

The map is balanced and I think Rik would view that as gamebreaking. I think in his mind the resources from here on out will continue to move further and further towards the middle on each continent (IE Rubber, oil, alum).

The map is balanced and I think Rik would view that as gamebreaking. I think in his mind the resources from here on out will continue to move further and further towards the middle on each continent (IE Rubber, oil, alum).Perhaps you should take a second job writing for the Ironic Bible?

Anything has to be better than the drivel TNT is printing.

FWIW, we are now in commuinication with the Diplo contact of TNT. Simon (BCLG100). Whomp is extracting info out of him like taking Opium from a baby.

FWIW, we are now in commuinication with the Diplo contact of TNT. Simon (BCLG100). Whomp is extracting info out of him like taking Opium from a baby.Soo... nevermind. Something about Opium and babies is just...

Oh man... do we have issues. :crazyeye:

FWIW, we are now in commuinication with the Diplo contact of TNT. Simon (BCLG100). Whomp is extracting info out of him like taking Opium from a baby.

Whaaaat's with opium & babies??? Maybe you are referring to Opie was never a baby on Andys show??? or, babies can't be olympians??? or, Whomp is an opium head???

BB

Whaaaat's with opium & babies??? Maybe you are referring to Opie was never a baby on Andys show??? or, babies can't be olympians??? or, Whomp is an opium head???

BB
Don't mind him fellow Kisser's as the saying goes...
Like father...like son.
The dude's got issues. :hammer2: ...and he cheats at Monopoly.:p

Posted from Scoutsout, " I'm not sure we can win this without going to war with MIA. They are gearing up for war - mark it."

I felt this from the git-go. We should have aken care of this business early. Now we have a neighbor that giggles at us while we go to war. This may take time now that we have chose this path.

Due to this path, I am thinking that we may be able to set up shop on the other continent as an empire, (WE should win this war) I am lax in knowing culture but I would keep all towns, starve and propogate our nationship. Why are we so lax?

My hat is off to Scoutsout. Thank you my man, I look forward to meeting you. You have saved this team from complacency. Your'remthe man right now. I know that this is a 'different game' but tactics and stategy are what this this game was founded on.

My words are late and they will be few(though I still hope to talk to Scoutsout), I am a travelling man. Brazil, India, Seoul, Taipai and beyond. Software is going well. I hope to chirp in when I get the chance.

BTW - I look for Sid to be involved with new TV network MLG at some point. If not, look for TBS games to be on too! It's a new new world.

I do not get involved to much of the Team Kiss' game play as I do not have a whole lot of time to put in but...

I vote for domination soley on the fact that it is the most embarrassing way for the other teams to lose (except maybe conquest)

Edit: be careful of what you call your threads as the enemies can see what the most recent topic in our thread is... I think :hmm:

No they are not visible Mistfit. I thought that originally and mentioned it to Rik and we determined that nothing can be seen inside the private forums. After we conquer them then they can become a refugee and see whatever they want.

Yeah I was "stalking" some people on other teams early on to see when they were online so that I could send a PM to them for diplo purposes. When they were looking at their threads, it just said something like "viewing thread @ 11:57pm" instead of "viewing thread Testicular Cancer @ 11:57pm"

My hat is off to Scoutsout. Thank you my man, I look forward to meeting you. And I, you. But seriously... if you think I've added something to this team and game, the one you oughta thank is gmaharriet. She's the one who goaded me into signing up. She pretty much stayed on me from the earliest going in Bede's Celtic spaceshot game. Shoot her a PM and introduce yourself if you don't know her already. She was a real good sport about taking over an invasion of America that looked almost as dicey as that time goz dropped me off on the Celtic shores in 2Gram.

My opinion about our situation is:

We must think clearly wich are the benefits of the current war and how long we may take to get this objectives.

I say that because as long we play that war, MIA will become stronger and stronger.

It would be nice to know the potencial of the Iros, and if possible let then take care of persians, from this, the way should be plan a massive atack against MIA.

And a Question: Is interesting eliminate Persia and let the land to Nuts?

My opinion about our situation is:

We must think clearly wich are the benefits of the current war and how long we may take to get this objectives.?
We have a 50 turn peace with MIA. We plan on being at war no more than 25 turns. Then we will turn our attention to MIA.

I say that because as long we play that war, MIA will become stronger and stronger. MIA is spending their shields on the Colossus and the Pyramids. They will be strong, but not too strong. I'll put my money on scout to outmanuever them.

It would be nice to know the potencial of the Iros, and if possible let then take care of persians, from this, the way should be plan a massive atack against MIA.I think since we are warring against TNT, this is giving Donuts (Iroquois) a chance to catch their breath and prepare for a knockout blow.

And a Question: Is interesting eliminate Persia and let the land to Nuts?We will not allow Donuts to have all of the other continent.

Tnx Bugsy, your explanations gave me a better look of our interests ^^

hm, Whomp said something about a agreement towards the TNT, wich would be the terms?

Wosret...here's our preliminary border lines.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=131003&page=9

Now (Turn #153) that TNT is a One City Civ about to be a Zero City Memory, what are the thoughts on a Domination Victory?

Some Catch Up Questions
We have a 50 turn peace with MIA. We plan on being at war no more than 25 turns. Then we will turn our attention to MIA.
Since I came in late, where do we stand in regards to this? (Mainly, what turn did the peace deal begin with MIA and what turn did the war with TNT begin?)

I think since we are warring against TNT, this is giving Donuts (Iroquois) a chance to catch their breath and prepare for a knockout blow.

We will not allow Donuts to have all of the other continent.
Have we decided on our next target?

MIA is our presumed next target.

Donuts have been partners against TNT. While they have been somewhat aloof they seem to operate in good faith.

You would have to check with Whomp, but I think we have a defensive pact with the Nuts to the Industrial Age.

We have been at war for a while. We weren't planning on taking TNT all the way out. It just has worked out that way. We are about 12 turns from then end of the treaty with MIA.