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Apr 17, 2006, 08:02 AM
Thread reserved for turnplay logs.

Apr 19, 2006, 08:13 PM
T1 played as planned.

Warrior west to check for city site

London built on spot, workboat due in 15 started, research to Sailing due in 12, London grows in 11.

Tubby Rower
Apr 21, 2006, 10:21 AM
Turn 2 played and sent

Only move was the warrior 1 S (

I found the demographics screen interesting... we seem to be not growing as fast as a couple of teams, but we will once that workboat plops on the fish (

Tubby Rower
Apr 22, 2006, 08:36 AM
turn 3 played and sent

We have pigs nearby!! and a couple of rivers (

The choke point to the NE is starting to bother me. Even after a cultural expansion, a team can see that our capital will be undefended. I think that after the workboat we need to go for a warrior instead of a worker

Apr 22, 2006, 10:35 AM
I think a warrior would be good after the boat. If we are confident enough we can send him up the choak point a bit to see if it leads anywhere.

I'm initerested in those rivers directly south. Maybe Sirian does love us ;)

Apr 22, 2006, 10:59 AM
Expansion may show that it's a chokepoint to 2 tiles, but probably not. We've got a good few more turns to make our minds up, but I think it may well need to be warrior next. An empty capitol would be just too good an opportunity to miss. In the meantime we've just got to keep exploring.

Those rivers do look good...

PS: anyone going to be playing Civ 4 SGOTM?

Tubby Rower
Apr 23, 2006, 02:38 PM
turn 4

moved the warrior to reveal the most fog... This screenshot was taken after the end turn was clicked (

Tubby Rower
Apr 23, 2006, 06:35 PM
turn 5

here is the screen before I pressed enter. It looks like the river is a lazy river at a water theme park (

Here is the screen after I pressed enter. It appears as though the area NE of London is just a small out-cropping. (

Apr 24, 2006, 03:13 AM
Hmm. This start looks fishy to me. Probably some kind of corny Sirian joke involed. ... Or something. :lol:

Don't wine about it, though. I wouldn't ham anybody an unplayable situation. Wheat until you see the rest of it. :cooool:


- Sirian

Apr 24, 2006, 06:05 AM
Sweet Fanny Moses! This planet's creator is a punster! The theologcial implications of this are clear... we are in deep, deep bat guano. Rik help us! :D

Apr 24, 2006, 01:58 PM
T6 - Warrior one southwest to the hill

Tubby Rower
Apr 24, 2006, 02:02 PM
Bede you need to post here ( when the save is sent

Rik Meleet
Apr 24, 2006, 03:35 PM
Sweet Fanny Moses! This planet's creator or a punster! The theologcial implications of this are clear... we are in deep, deep bat guano. Rik help us! :DAs long as you keep to Meleetism as your religion and don't cook up anything even remotely resembling "Sirianism" you'll be fine.

Apr 25, 2006, 06:28 PM
T7 in the bin and on its way. Not much to report. See Internal Affairs for demographic shot.

Apr 26, 2006, 04:58 PM
Turn 8 played and sent along.

Warrior moved east. (

Apr 27, 2006, 10:52 PM
In T9 climbed another hill to see what we could see

And noted that we are now dead last in statistical soldiers (screen shot in Dept of Central Intelligents)

Apr 30, 2006, 05:18 PM
T10 Stats

T10 Snapshot

May 01, 2006, 08:52 PM
Still climbing hills. Warrior needs to heal before busting the hut. Apparently he had a battle with a wolf somewhere.

Big news is over in Foreign Affairs (

May 04, 2006, 07:26 AM
And here is the empirical view:

Warrior is healing and waiting on sailing which is due in 1

May 05, 2006, 08:08 PM
Sailing came in, selected BW (due in 15T, but can be done in 11 by working the fish, so it'll improve once the workboat is done).

Lion moved 1T NE of the 1.7/2 warrior, so I let him heal. He should win and we'll have a promotion to think about next turn.

May 07, 2006, 07:35 PM
Lion killed, warrior took forester promotion.

Popped the hut :woot:

Put a citizen on the fish and took three turns off BW but didn't affect the finish of the boat. I also queued up a worker, should probably change to warrior

Another religion has dropped

And learning the tech has moved us up the scoring curve

May 10, 2006, 06:37 AM
Workboat in the water and training a warrior. Bronze Working due in 10. Bubba still exploring the eastern marches. Citizens fishing and eating corn.

May 12, 2006, 06:24 PM

Fishing nets cast, Bubba still in the woods. No lions tigers or bears in sight. And no bogies.

May 14, 2006, 02:06 PM
Food to the east. No sign of friends or enemies.

May 15, 2006, 02:06 PM
Growth in 2, warrior in 5

Bubba climbs another hill and sees a lion

May 16, 2006, 05:44 PM
There's that pesky lion again. Growth on the next turn, so change build to worker

May 18, 2006, 09:18 PM
Lion now dead, London pop3 so worker now due in 8, Bronze shortly after. Bubba heading north from forest to climb another hill

May 22, 2006, 08:08 AM
The pride and might of our civilization climbs yet anoher hill and is confronted by yet another lion.
The worker will be done in 6 turns, and BW in 3.

May 22, 2006, 08:18 AM
jeez we have lots of sand. looks like we'll have a lot of beach parties this summer :)

May 22, 2006, 08:28 AM
Beach parties... perhaps Sirian left a patch of ... herbs... around here somewhere, maybe near that unexplored villiage of bikini clad surfers... :cool:

Hopefully there's greener pastures to the west.

May 24, 2006, 07:15 AM
Coast to the east with the incense patch. Warrior trending westward again. Worker in 6 Bronze in 3. Nothing new in the newscast.

May 24, 2006, 09:02 AM
I gather the lion ran off?

May 26, 2006, 04:55 PM
Edit: Wrong Thread

May 27, 2006, 04:42 AM
Turn 23: we get BW next turn, and a worker in 4.
As for Bubba, at the risk of wasting a turn and being spurned by the team, he healed, as his health must have been somewhere between 1.95 and 2 (it was showing 2.0, yet the heal button was available). Also it gives the lion 1 more chance to come down (even though it seems pretty statueque at the moment), and I noticed that there is land extending to the NE of the incense, not just coast, so it leaves the option open to check it out if people want.

May 29, 2006, 12:35 AM
Turn 24.
Ok, when I said BW next turn, I meant BW... next turn. We don't get the movie and the all important bronze location until next time, folks :(
Bubba was victorious again! Those pesky lions are no match for him. He is down to 1 HP and has XP 4/5 :goodjob:

May 31, 2006, 07:37 AM
Bronze Working in, started on Wheel, Bubba wandering north now looking for a copper mine. Worker in three - saved the switch to Slavery for some later time.

Jun 02, 2006, 04:41 PM
Err...Bubba managed to move 1 tile north and didn't get killed. Not much more to say really :crazyeye:

Bubba goin' walkies:

Our Great city of London:

Jun 04, 2006, 09:28 AM
Turn 28 (I think)
Moved Bubba north where he spies a lion two NE of him.
Change a tile from hammer to gold as our worker will finish next turn either way. Wheel research drops from 5 turns to 4 turns.

Jun 04, 2006, 12:42 PM
MORE Lions?!?

Did Syrian put a Gibbsons for Panthera Leo up this way or what?

Jun 07, 2006, 09:35 AM
Bubbba healing in the north while staring down a lion. Worker in the corn. Wheel in 3, warrior in 1.

Pictures later.

Jun 08, 2006, 06:17 PM
Warrior trained and sent SW. Worker in the corn. Third warrior in queue to finish in 5 with growth in 4, corn ready for picking in 4, so in 4 turns swap out to settler with 1 turn left on the warrior. Bubba still healing and staring down the big scaredy cat in the northern arm.

In other news the score leader has jumped ahead and the rest of the pack are getting close. We seem to be a little behind in the grab.

There is a wolf in the vineyards!

Jun 11, 2006, 03:34 PM

Worker working, Bubba staring down the lion, second warrior on a hill SW trying to curry favor with the Big Bad Wolf

Jun 13, 2006, 09:45 PM
Turn 31

We researched the wheel (I was going to add the screen shot for dramatic effect, but the wheel just isn't that dramatic :) )!!! Started on AniWifery.

London pops in 1 turn, and the warrior in 2. As for our scouts, Bubba killed yet another lion IBT, and is resting under the glow of a promotion in a shady forest at 0.7HP. Warrior 2 (really needs a name!) I assume fought the wolf, as he is on 0.9HP, he is sitting on a hill just outside the border.

Jun 14, 2006, 09:22 AM
In keeping with the genere, I propose "Scooter" as the name for Warrior Two. My wife is from Arkansas so I am well qualified to assign red-neck names.

Jun 14, 2006, 01:15 PM
How about:
Billy Joe
Billy Bob

Jun 15, 2006, 06:09 AM

Bobby Ray
Sue (a boy of course)
and the unconventional but appropriate,

Jun 15, 2006, 06:15 PM
Our first corn crops came in at London!! Nothing much to report - Bubba still asleep in the trees, Skynard moving slowly west, and should find something in the fog next turn, although both are injured and should probably rest :scared: :dubious: . London pops... well have to change prodn to settler (will take around 10 turns) before next turn, start roading up throuh the corn to the hill, and mine it.

Jun 17, 2006, 11:35 AM
Turn 33:

Bubba & Skynard rested.
Worker started building a road amongst the corn.

Jun 19, 2006, 04:36 PM
Turn 34 (2640 BC):

New warrior (Billy Bob) produced. He is heading north towards the tribal village hut.
Bubba and Skynard are both healing from their wounds.

The consensus seemed to be that we should start building a settler, so I did that.

We are 6 turns from Animal Husbandry.

Jun 27, 2006, 08:35 AM
Turn 35 - 2560BC

There is nothing new to show. Bubba is fit and Skynyrd is about 3 turns off - both rested. Billy Bob poped the hut and they promoted him 5/2. Settler in 6, AH in 4, and the worker began mining.

Jun 29, 2006, 11:33 PM
Turn 36 2520BC
Again, not much doing. Bubba is off exploring again, and found some fish (forgot s/s). Skynyrd resting, spys a lion.

Jul 03, 2006, 12:41 AM
Turn 38 2480BC (yes it is turn 38, I did the numbers wrong previously, sorry)

It feels like I've been talking to myself for a week. Is anyone still here?

Bubba continues to the NE, nothing new there. Billy Bob is heading back to London for settler escort. Skynard was feeling cavalier:
Here are our intrepid warriors:
London will be unhappy soon, we might have to address that, a warrior garrison should do for the moment.

Jul 03, 2006, 07:41 AM
Speaking for myself, I am awed into speechlessness by the superior turnplay you regularly produce...:D

As for unhappiness, how quickly did we expect a popluation increase after the settler? If I remember correctly we were building a warrior afterwards, will that build preceed the peasant's revolt?

Jul 03, 2006, 08:38 AM
Awwww :blush:

We're getting a fair bit of food in, so pretty soon, but the warrior should just about match it, I estimate. Although we could probably use another worker... just a thought. Anyway, it's someone else's problem, because I'm off for a week to visit my new cousin :D I expect the Pyramids to be built when I get back :lol:

Have a good week, all.

Jul 06, 2006, 06:28 PM
Turn 39 2440 BC (?)
Skynard gets a woodsman promo and moves west to a forest.
Billy Bob continues home. Why is the capital called London? Shouldn't it be Piffledon?
Bubba continues east. Nada
Shift our settler build from a grass forest to a newly mined hill.

The demographics.

Jul 09, 2006, 07:20 PM
Turn 40 2400BC

We were playing around with the pigs out to the west, getting drunk and partying, and out of the debauchery came the miracle of life. Some thought it was disgusting, and swore off bacon for the rest of their lives, but most claimed that science was meant to be fun, and called it Animal Husbandry.

In other news... umm... not much. Skynyrd's hiding from a wolf in the forest, Bubba's exploring NE (not a bad spot for a commerce isthmus city out there), and Billy Bob's still at home in bed. The settler's still 3 turns away, and the worker is roading the mine.


Jul 14, 2006, 03:34 PM
Turn 41 2360 BC

We have completed Animal Husbandry.
Much to the delight of Billy Bob, who's always wanted a pony, horses have been discovered to the south (1E7S of London).
Pottery came up in the research queue (it appears that hunting then archery are next up).

Skynard is still resting.
Bubba moved 1 square to the NE and spied jungle in the distance.

There are 2 turns until we complete the settler.

Jul 16, 2006, 04:40 AM
Nope, I think that those techs were the ones I clicked on to show how many turns each would take for the last screen shot. We need to decide whats up next. See Internal Affairs.

Jul 19, 2006, 08:00 AM
Turn 42 2320BC

All's quiet on the wetern front. And the southern, and western, and northern. Even the lions have taken a break. Bubba is continuing NE up the land bridge, and has found ivory in the jungle there. Skynyrd is healing, and Billy Bob is waiting in London. The worker is road building to the new site, thru the wheat - two birds with one stone. Pottery 5 turns, settler 1 turn :goodjob:
Too boring for screenies.

Jul 19, 2006, 08:40 AM
How 'bout a screenie of the Isthumus so we can start debating commercial cities? I'm at work, without CIV, throw me a frikin' bone here...

Jul 19, 2006, 09:13 AM
Argghhhh... I was being lazy because it's 1am, but if you are at work... well then, you must be bored s4!tless. Check the archive, and dotmap to your hearts content.

Jul 19, 2006, 11:36 AM
Wish we were silent again?

Thanks Sweet, you 'da man. Unless you're a woman, then you're not.

Jul 22, 2006, 05:08 PM
Turn 43

The settler's on his way to his new home, and Bubba has probably reached the far side of the isthmus.

Mistakes made:
Forgot to change London's name again.
Didn't MM so that the warrior build would coincide with pop. :(
Warrior 1 turn, pop 4. If we max commerce next go.... ??


Jul 25, 2006, 11:10 AM
Turn 44

I made an executive (who made me an executive, you say?) decision to rename London Balderdash. It just jumped out at me....
MMed so that pop coincides with warrior, which cut 1 turn off pottery, btw.
The worker will take about 5 turns, and lighthouse about 8, even faster after pop to 5.

The settler has reached position and will settle next go, Billy Bob is one step behind, the road is almost finished, and the wheat farm is to go in next. Skynyrd STILL asleep... maybe after settle he can go to town to heal. Bubba still has the pioneering spirit.

Check out the leaderboard!


Jul 27, 2006, 11:40 PM
Turn 45

Ahem.. big announcement..

Allow me to introduce the envoy of The Leader, Dark Puma.

(Yes, they are gems next to Bubba)

Hamburger was settled, and a barracks was started, as was the wheat farm.
The new warrior is out next go, so commerce was maxed again in Balderdash.


Jul 30, 2006, 02:51 PM
Turn 46....

Hamburger and Balderdash were connected.
I fortified Billy Bob in Hamburger.
I couldn't see Dark Puma, so I moved Bubba further north and revealed more water plus copper and bananas.
I renamed the warrior in Balderdash to 'Scooter' and fortified him.

Bubba's holiday snaps: (

More screenshots in their appropriate places.

Aug 03, 2006, 06:21 AM
Turn 47

A turn that could only be described as routine. Pottery is finished, mmed Balders so its myst in 4, worker in 4, Hamburger's wheat farm in 4. Billy Bob is wandering, Skynyrd STILL healing. It's going to be a quiet 2 or 3 turns, I think, unless Bubba finds something, although...
We are solidly in 2nd.

Aug 05, 2006, 12:55 AM
Turn 48 2080BC

zzzzzzzz.. I did warn you ;)

Subtract 1 from the numbers in the lastpost (except position, of course :))
Bubba found gems, Billy Bob found floodplains.


Aug 07, 2006, 10:29 AM
Turn 49 2040BC

Minus 1 from everything we are waiting on again.
Today's word of the day: "Exploration"

Skynyrd finally woke up, Billy Bob is heading west also (although if Dark Puma is on his way, he shouldn't go too far, probably) and Bubba is a juggernaut. See a hut and various resources. A desert city with flood plains and cows is looking interesting.


Aug 09, 2006, 10:55 AM
Turn 50 (yeee-hah!) 2000BC
Not much action - Balderdash's culture popped, Billy Bob saw a lion which disappeared into the fog. But everything finished after I pressed enter, so we'll have pottery, a new worker, and a hut popped by Skynyrd. You'll notice the points don't look so bad anymore. :thumbsup:


Aug 12, 2006, 05:39 AM
Turn 51, 1960 BC

Mysticism discovered
Started researching Masonry
Moved new worker to hills 2S of Balderdash
Moved worker near Hamburger to grass 1S of Hamburger and started cottage
Billy Bob climbed the hill nearby to see what he could see. And what he saw was wheat and tribal huts.
Skynard visited the tribal huts near him and those kindly people gave him experience
Bubba moved west and saw the sea.

I'll post screenies in the Internal Affairs and Central Inteligents threads

Aug 16, 2006, 10:13 PM
Turn 52, 1920BC

London -- I mean, Balderdash! -- swapped to a settler, due in 10ish turns
Hamburger swapped to an Obelisk, due in 15

Worker roaded the hill.
Since Skynard already had Wood I, I gave him Wood II and moved him a little farther through the forests.
Billy Bob moved towards the tribal hut, staying on the forest
Bubba moved north so he could take advantage of that forested hill for an extra movement next round.

We didn't really find anything, so I'm not going to bother with screenshots of terrain. However, check out Central Intelligents for a round of speculation! (If people really want screenshots, I can post.)

Aug 17, 2006, 02:21 AM
(If people really want screenshots, I can post.)

We live for screenshots!

Er... Some of us, do. :lol:

Even some of us who aren't on the team! :mischief:

Skipping a turn is OK, I suppose, but don't go too long in the dark!

- Sirian

Aug 17, 2006, 09:04 AM
A couple turns w/o screens makes speculation more fun.

So for discussion purposes, Sirian, where do you think the best resources are? Just for discussion purposes...:mischief:

Aug 20, 2006, 02:46 PM
Most are probably on the land. Although... Wait. Maybe some could be at sea.


- Sirian

Aug 21, 2006, 06:28 PM
Billy Bob avoids the hut since we're 2 turns from getting masonry. I move him SW.
Lynard moves along the forests SW and SE and locates some deer.
While I do that I try to mark the spot and end up moving Bubba S instead.:confused: Grrr. Sorry.
Our worker finishes the road on the hill.

We're at 0g and -1gpt at 100% science. We're due in 2 but I think it's better to wait on the hut till we finish masonry. A free tech here would be nice.

Notice on the power graph that The Leader dropped a notch. They must've lost a unit. I wonder if it was the Puma guy. We are stronger than them in all categories right now. GDP, Mfg Prod., Crop Yield (big time) and power.

A satelite photo to keep "the Sirian" happy. Must always keep the Sirian happy. :mischief:

Aug 24, 2006, 01:01 PM
Turn 54

Umm...I moved on to that hut and the natives turned out to be hostile! As I can't move before they attack I've promoted to Combat II and fortified.

I started a mine.

Screenie of Balderdash:

Aug 26, 2006, 02:27 PM
Turn 55: Worker finishes a cottage at Hamburger and starts a road (in 2) since it will be needed for porkers. Shift a tile at Hamburger from forest grass to the cottage. Wake Skynard who was fortified and move him along the forests for two moves. .He ends up next on tundra next to a hut and is two tiles away from a wolf. I upgrade him to combat 1 along with his woodsman II. This guarantees a winner.

Billy Bob survived the barb attack but is at 1.0/2.0. I move him off the desert to a forest tile for extra defense. Bubba was on a "go to" move so I stop that.

Shave a turn off the settler build in Balderdash to 6 by moving off the commerce ocean tile to a grass forest.
We will get masonry next turn so on to metal casting.

We are beating the leader in mfg goods, power, gnp and big time in crop yield.

Aug 28, 2006, 01:04 PM

Here's Bubba

The other wanderers are recovering from their wounds in the closest forest. Skynrd I think it is (in the south west) has a hut to pop once he's healthy again.

All the news that's fit to print

And we have revolted to slavery.

Make sure the research is set to Masonry when we come back.

Tubby Rower
Aug 28, 2006, 01:15 PM
why are we researching Writing? We're getting a deal with The Leader to get Writing and alpha for the metal stuff.

Aug 28, 2006, 01:41 PM
why are we researching Writing? We're getting a deal with The Leader to get Writing and alpha for the metal stuff.

My error, we are in anarchy so there shouldn't be anyting invested when it comes back

Tubby Rower
Aug 29, 2006, 04:34 AM
ok.. Just making sure we didn't lose turns

Aug 31, 2006, 05:06 AM
Turn 57 1720BC

Bubba sees an old friend:

The others heal. Cities are MMd to speed production. Metalwork in 43!!

Sep 02, 2006, 07:11 PM
Turn 58 Year 1680 BC: It seems we have a new city down by the Leader. Start a road on the forest near Hamburger. I wasn't sure whether we should chop yet but we have growth in 2 so I'd prefer the new citizen has a good tile to work. The road will be necessary to hook up the copper either way. At Balderdash the worker finishes his mine and move to a grass to begin another cottage. Turn research up to 100% again Metal to 34 turns at -1gpt with 5g in the bank.

The Leade's borders. Should we open borders now?

Sep 07, 2006, 09:54 PM
Turn 59: Move Lynard around the Leader's territory. We have slavery and can get the obliesk by sacrificing 1 pop but still grow next turn. We could really use the copper and pigs so I rush it. Settler is due in 2 at Balderdash. Billy Bob is at 1.4 and Skynard is at 1.2 standing next to the hut. When do we pop it?

We are behind "The Leader" in GNP but beating them in all other critical categories.

Sep 10, 2006, 07:55 PM
Turn 60:

Move our warrior around "The Leader" city. Move our worker at Hamburger to a grass spot to start a cottage. There should be enough time to make a cottage before the obliesk kicks out the borders for copper. The settler will finish next turn even when I move to a coastal tile. This drops research from 32 turns on metal to 27. A lighthouse is in the queue next. Are we finishing that?

We are #2 behind The Leader in GNP.
They've gained a little on mfg. goods though we've still got a good lead.
Ahead in crop yield though we've dropped from our peak and still maintaining our power lead.

Sep 13, 2006, 10:44 AM
Turn 61

Not much to tell. The settler moved out toward the isthmus, escorted by the Balderdash garrison, added a warrior to the queue to replace him (2 turns). Moved worker to mine the other plains hill (we need it more than cottages right now for the GLH etc). Bubba continued on his merry way.


Sep 15, 2006, 07:21 PM
Turn 62:
Ah Sheesh we lose Bubba on the IT even though we're 78% odds. Send the warrior and settler to towards the river.
Billy Bob moves to a hill W and finds coast. Skynard pops the hut and hostiles pop out.

That was not cool and then I forgot to take pictures.

Sep 17, 2006, 04:47 PM
Turn 63: 3160 BC

Fortify the new warrior (name?) in the captial and continue work on the lighthouse due in 5. Work both mined hills. We also continue towards the river for settlement. What spot?

We lost Skynard. :( The barb hit first and then we returned 3 in a row but the barb finished with 4 straight to take him out.
Billy Bob sees another barb towards our west.

Leader has exploded on GNP. We lead them in everything else.

Sep 18, 2006, 07:29 AM
Turn 63: 3160 BC

Fortify the new warrior (name?)...We lost Skynard. :(

How 'bout Lynryd?

As for City Tres, what about the tile directly north of the wines? Flood Plains for cottages, forests for health/resources, one hill for mining, corn for food, wines for commerce.

Sep 18, 2006, 07:48 AM
EDIT: post deleted cos it was nonsense :crazyeye:

Sep 21, 2006, 05:28 PM
Turn 64 1440 BC:
1440 BC: Move our Hamburger worker to a hill since we have 2 cottages and a forest that can be worked. Settler and Scooter move 1SW. Billy Bob spies what could be another isthmus. Other than that it's a reasonably quiet turnset.

Sep 24, 2006, 08:16 PM
Turn 65 1400 BC:
Ikes. Billy Bob has a barb from across the river staring him down. We can't afford to lose him (he's 1.8/2.0 with two combat promos). Send him NE towards a forest. Our worker starts a mine on a hill near Hamburger.
Establish Treacle Cottage (is this name ok?) on the spot start a warrior and fortify the escort on the spot warrior there.
At Balderdash slow growth by placing a citizen on a newly mined hill and we knock off a turn from our lighthouse build to 2 instead of 3 (get 14 hammers with 34 of 60 in the box).
MM Hamburger to 4 turns for the rax instead of 5 as it will grow next turn even with by moving to a hill (4 hammers with 47 of 60 in the box). 5 more turns for border expansion (copper and pigs).

We've taken the lead in score with the new city.

Sep 27, 2006, 05:49 PM
Pre-turn: Our worker finishes a mine and Balderdash and moves to another grass hill to start another for Treacle.
Balderdash will finish its lighthouse next turn. We should knock out another MP for Hamburger since Hamburger is angry so only two citizens are working. Two more turns to finish the barracks at Hamburger. The borders will expand in 4 and the worker will finish his mine in 3 so we should move to the copper at that point.
Big jump from The Leader shows that they have learned Confucianism. :eek:
It looks like they have priesthood and writing. That's dangerous! Their score and GNP are off the charts right now. I also noticed that in typical MIA like fashion they're going to make a spectacle of the event.

Oct 01, 2006, 03:23 PM
Turn 67:
Lighthouse finishes in Balderdash and start a warrior due next. It's needed for Hamburger MP. Nothing else to report.

Oct 04, 2006, 07:45 PM
Turn 68: Our warrior finishes in Balderdash and heads out to Hamburger for MP duty. Balderdash starts The Great Lighthouse. It's due in 15. We are #1 in Mfd. Goods so hopefully this bodes well for us. Our warrior Lynard heads out west. Next turn the rax in Hamburger will finish and the mine on the hill is finished. Should we start another warrior?

Oct 09, 2006, 05:31 PM
Turn 69: Hamburger finishes its barracks and starts a settler due in 11. The warrior will finish in Treacle Village in likely 9 or 10. The capital will get angry in 6 so we may need to starve it a little.

Should we chop at Balderdash to finish the Glighthouse?

Oct 11, 2006, 04:55 PM
Turn 70 -- 1200 BC:
Our warrior is being chased by that stinking Barbarian. Move towards a forest heading SW. Hamburger gets a MP though it doesn't seem to need one now. The borders have also expanded there so we now have copper and pigs inside our cultural borders! Balderdash will get two workers starting a chop next turn. We're 14 turns away. We also luck out by discovering a source of gold on our newly minted mine there!

Should we build a road on the gold because the capital will grow in 5 and become unhappy or as we discussed chopping the forests to speed up the Great Lighthouse. We can also slow growth from the wheat to a grass forest.

In dastardly news, The Leader chose Civil Service and has adopted slavery and bureaucracy two turns ago and this is why they're getting an enormous GNP boast.

Oct 12, 2006, 04:12 AM
I say finish the chop, then move both workers to gold and road that. If you move them off now you loose a turn of production. If you can slow growth, that is probably best.

Oct 12, 2006, 07:31 AM
The workers just finished their jobs so will be moving to the forest this turn.

Oct 12, 2006, 01:41 PM
Okay. Then I guess going for gold first would make sense.

If getting gold avoids unhappiness, that speeds production along. And as long as both the roading and the chopping would be finished before the GLight is completed then it all works out.

Oct 12, 2006, 01:57 PM
It would be great if one of our math geniuses could work this out. :mischief:
One worker could move to the trees(1) immediately and start a chop(4?)
Meanwhile the 2nd worker moves to road (1), roads (2 more) and then moves to trees after. There are two chops available.

Tubby Rower
Oct 13, 2006, 05:28 AM
I'm not following what needs to be worked out :confused:

Oct 13, 2006, 05:01 PM
Whether it makes a difference whether we road the gold first or chop first.

There's 14 turns left on the Glighthouse.

If we road we'll have gold ( :) ) and can add another citizen. Currently we're at the happy limit.
If we move the worker to the forest we speed up the chop and maybe get in two.

Oct 13, 2006, 11:33 PM
I'd be inclined to road the gold first.. I haven't checked the save lately, but aren't we near happiness limit in both cities?

**preparing to flee if we get beaten to the GL**

Oct 14, 2006, 10:57 AM
Me too Sweet. I don't think it will delay the build since it would all happen within the build time. I'll send one worker to chop and the other to road.

Oct 14, 2006, 11:42 AM
Turn 71 1160 BC: Billy Bob moves to a forest hill and encounters a barb on tundra. He should win if attacked at 75% with combat II. There has to be another land bridge somewhere. Where?

Rename our workers to Pindicator and Sweetacshon. Pindicator moves to the forest next to Balderdash and will chop next turn. Sweet moves to the gold and will road next.
We will grow in 4 and Glighthouse in 13 at Balderdash. 23 beakers
Settler due in 9 at Hamburger. 3 beakers
Switch Treacle Cottage to a 1f 3h mine since it needs four food to grow. (Reminder to self) Switch back to the FP next turn for growth. 2 beakers

Metal casting is due in 11 but we're running science at 100% with 1g in the treasury and -3gpt.

We are still #2 in GNP at 23 (The Leader #1 at 34) even with our monsterous lead on Mfg products 25 with the next closest at 15. This comes at the expense of Crop yield where we are #5 now. Still #1 militarily (we can work on copper as soon as the trees are chopped), #2 in land and #3 in population. The Leader has adopted confucianism.

Oct 14, 2006, 06:32 PM
I say explore south, if we're serious about building galleys then the boat can cover the northern area.

Oct 15, 2006, 08:20 AM
Yep, and there is water S of Billy Bob, so just moving to the hill 1S should tell us a fair bit.

Tubby Rower
Oct 16, 2006, 04:30 AM
how far along are we in research.. by you guys cutting that part out of the picture, it is largely not discussed. now the leader is asking about MC.

Oct 16, 2006, 07:26 AM
We are ~11 turns from MC.

Tubby Rower
Oct 16, 2006, 09:22 AM
should I reply back with that to Gen W?

he updated their turns to Alpha and they are 4 away.

Have they already used up the free tech for the Oracle?

Oct 16, 2006, 09:26 AM
They took CS and revolted to bureaucracy. That's why they are cranking on GNP. They'll just have to be patient and get their panties out of a bundle. We're still #2 in GNP so they couldn't find a better partner to research with.

Oct 16, 2006, 03:55 PM
And we're certainly not diverting those GLH hammers to commerce tiles! ;)

Oct 16, 2006, 05:05 PM
Turn 72--1120 BC: Sweetacshon starts a road on the gold due in 2 and Pindicator starts the chop due in 3 and 20 hammers. Billy Bob goes to 7/10 and had zero damage versus the barb. :D Climbs the hill and finds silver. Hmm...not sure if there's going to be a route here.

Balderdash will grow in 3 (gold should help) and Great Lighthouse has 54 in the bin (of 200) doing 13 hammer per turn. With two chops and growth we should have it in 8 turns. There's a barbarian 4 tiles from Pindicator. This could make the 2nd chop more interesting. Move Stevie Ray out of Hamburger. Not sure how much that will risk Hamburger...we can send him back next turn so send out Scooter from Treacle Cottage because we'll have a warrior in 3 (10 of 15 but more will be coming next turn).

Move the citizen at Treacle Cottage to the FP so it will grow next turn.
Hamburger settler in 8.

Metal Casting is due in 12.

Oct 17, 2006, 08:27 AM
Hey, that Pindicator can handle some wussy barb!

But the gesture is appreciated :love:

On research: are we running binary research? We don't have to worry about AIs making irrational demands on our gold in this game, just humans.

Oct 18, 2006, 06:19 PM
Turn 73 1080 BC- Stonehenge was built in a faraway place. What's the logic? Easier to find contacts?
Move Billy Bob to the forest SE and spies a goody hut. Pop or leave? The barb warrior went back into the fog.
Since it's MP our road is finished for the gold.
Balderdash can grow in either 1 or 2. We can get it next turn with a grass forest being worked so I move him now. We'll lose 3 hammers this turn but gain 4 next for a net +1. The capital...

Here's Hamburger

and Treacle Village

Oct 22, 2006, 04:28 AM
Turn 73 1080 BC- Stonehenge was built in a faraway place. What's the logic? Easier to find contacts?

In my solo games I like Stonehenge becuase it pops culture without every city having to worry about the monument (or whatever it is called now/then).

But we don't know who built it, right?

Oct 24, 2006, 03:52 PM
I put this in the wrong thread last turn. I got turn 75.

Turn 74-1040 BC--
Treacle Village finishes a warrior and start another due in 4 (or 3 if we work a plains forest tile 1 turn). We'll need an escort for the settler at Hamburger due in 6.

A land bridge? Let's pray to the Great Sirian it is. :worship:
I presume we don't want to pop the hut.

The forest is chopped at Balderdash by Pind. Sweet moves to the other forest.
If my maths are correct here's how we should do it.
There's 103 :hammers: left.
If we work the forest we get 14 :hammers: per turn and if we work the coast it's 13 :hammers: per turn.
Working the forest for 3 turns would give 42 :hammers:.
or 39 :hammers: if we work the coast.
20 :hammers: for the chop requiring us to move.

A total of 62 :hammers: (41 left) on the forest or 59 :hammers: (44 left) on the coast.
However if we work the forest for 3 and move the citizen to a plains tile for 3 (irrigate the plains tile?....may not use it later so I'll leave it to discuss) it will allow us to maintain 14 :hammers: per turn and finish in 6 versus 7. I'll work the forest then switch to the plains.

Metal is due in 11 but it will be shorter since we will be able to work the coast after GLighthouse is finished. We are stilling cruising on Mfg. Products though "The Leader" spiked here. We are beating "The Leader" in food (just passed them again) and power but losing to them on culture and GNP.

Any thoughts on city placement?

Here's the demographics which I'll post in Central Intelligents.

Oct 24, 2006, 04:23 PM
Turn 75 1000 BC: Move Pind towards Hamburger to hook up the copper.
Balderdash is 111/200 and getting 14hpt. Start a chop with
Hamburger 5 more turns for the settler and Treacle Cottage can get the warrior in 2 if I switch to a plains forest but I don't see the immediate need. Where to settle next?
Billy Bob see what could be a land bridge. Tough to tell. He also has that hut if we want to pop it.

Oct 25, 2006, 01:10 AM
That's no land bridge, just an icy wasteland. There is land across there, or at least an island or 2...I really think it's time we got a boat or 2 out.

Oct 25, 2006, 07:59 AM
I agree with Sweet - I think down south holds nothing more than enough ice for a Dean Martin mixer.

I also like his settlement ideas. As much as I would like horsies, I think we have time - horseback riding is aways away, and unless we are going to hit the Leade NOW there are some other techs we could use first.

I say settle the Isthmus first. If we settle the spot Sweet marked one (the norhtern site) I think we will need two boats, one for exploring (and horsies maybe...) with the other for supply to that city. If we only want to build one boat after the GL then I say settle the sourthern site and road, baby, road.

Oct 27, 2006, 07:34 PM
Turn 76 975 BC:
Not much happened but I do believe that ice flow is a route to another civ. Hamburger settler in 4 and Treacle Cottage warrior in 2. Balderdash has 125 :hammers: in the box and is doing 14 :hammers: per turn so 4 more turns with the chop. The Leader has made a fairly large move in power and still lead in GNP so I'm guessing they have axes.

I think this is a land brige...

Here's a big picture look of our military

Oct 27, 2006, 11:02 PM
I didn't think you can walk on ice.. have I been missing out all this time? :sad:

Oct 29, 2006, 01:36 PM
If you hover your mouse over the ice terrain, you'll notice a little red word that says, "impassible."


Oct 29, 2006, 01:42 PM
I thought ice was passable but icebergs were impassable. Whomever (me lately) should do this. A boat seems to be required. For Sirian's sake :worship: it would be nice to meet people easier. :mischief:

Oct 29, 2006, 10:13 PM
Turn 77 950 BC
Get a offer from The Leader and deny it. We need to send them a message.

The forest is chopped and we are 3 turns (41 :hammers: doing 14:hammers: from Glight!
Billy Bob spots a barb with the goody hut inbetween. It was an iceberg. :(
Treacle Cottage will finish a warrior next turn and Hamburger's settler will finish in 3.
We're 6-8 turns away from metal casting.
We are now last in crop yield (The Leader is 4th now) but still cranking on production.

Oct 30, 2006, 12:58 AM
Balderdash can still finish the GL in 6 turns if it works the coast instead of the forest, but this'll add 3gpt.. probably worthwhile.

Oct 30, 2006, 10:15 AM
We can work the plains for 2 more turns and the coast for 1 and get it in 3. Would we prefer to delay the GLight or get it out? We should really consider whether a second coastal city should be used for our next settler.

Oct 30, 2006, 11:03 AM
I say finish TGL in 3 - I'm nervous about wonder building against humans, get it done.

And I think that the next settler should head for the Isthmus - blocks the land bridge AND is a coastal city.

Oct 31, 2006, 05:36 PM
Dear Us People… I mean You people… er… Piffle,

We're glad to hear our deal is still on. You will find we have sent
writing to you.
Looking forward to completing the trade.

All the best,
General_W, Servant of the Leader,
Epsilon Team

925 BC
We accept writing. Our warrior finishes in Treacle Cottage and start a worker due in 10.

Sweet starts a road after his chop. Pind starts a mine on the copper. Billy Bob moves north again towards Conroe's gap. Scooter heads towards the land bridge and our new warrior heads south of Treacle Cottage to scout a bit. Two more turns for Glight and one for the settler. We're 5 on MC but more like 6.

Nov 03, 2006, 11:31 PM
900 BC

Scooter sees a barb on the desert so I move him towards a forest.

Billy Bob moves NW and leaves the hut intact.
Glighthouse will finish next turn even as I move to a coastal tile. :dance:
This moves us to #1 mfg. products and #2 in GNP.
The settler will finish at Hamburger.
Next builds and to the land bridge?
Worker will finish in 9 at Treacle.
Metal Casting is done in 5 now.

Nov 04, 2006, 07:48 AM
Glighthouse will finish next turn
The settler will finish at Hamburger.Have we decided what we are going to build next in Balderdash and Hamburger? I'm thinking Granaries would be a good idea to make better use of the :whipped:.

Nov 04, 2006, 11:15 AM
Makes sense to me Conroe. If no one else objects I will start grans. I'm really tempted to pop that hut but I don't want to do it without team discussion. Anyone know the probabilities?

Nov 04, 2006, 10:10 PM
if we think our military is good enough to hold off barbs, then granaries get my :thumbsup:

Nov 05, 2006, 04:35 AM
I'd like to know how long a galley would take to build at Balderdash. If things are going to get dicey with the Dear Leader then finding help is important, the galley would help.

And I think we were going to settle the land bridnge next. The only question was the northern or southern site. I preffer southern for security reasons, but that preference isn't white hot.

Nov 05, 2006, 10:44 AM
Dear Piffle,

The Leader wishes me to convey his warmest congratulations on your
wondrous achievement. It truly stands as a beacon of light – not only
to light the seas, but also to illuminate the greatness of your
We wish you the best!

- General W, Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team!
Rendering of construction...
Marvel at its beauty...
875 BC
Our magnificient wonder has finished as well as our new settler in Hamburger.
Start granaries in Balderdash and Hamburger. If Balderdash works 9 :hammers: twice and 13 :hammers: once we can rush the gran for 1 pop.

Hamburger can work the copper (mine due in 2) for 8 :hammers: once, cottage twice (6 :hammers: and back to mine for 30 :hammers:

Pind move towards Treacle so he can start the irrigation on the FP. Stop him early to make a road. You can move workers 1 turn before their movement is finished and start work (IE road) and return to finish since worker moves are stored. This is a good technique to remember for pre builds on chops.
A view of Treacle Cottage..

MC will finish in 3.

Nov 05, 2006, 12:39 PM
if we think our military is good enough to hold off barbs, then granaries get my :thumbsup:To me, it doesn't make sense to build military until our copper is hooked up. Once we have the copper in place, we can always put the Granaries on hold while we get an axe or two trained. Although, I must say that I like Whomp's idea of :whipped: the Granary at Balderdash.

I'd like to know how long a galley would take to build at Balderdash.This is a very good point. Maybe we should consider a Galley for the whip overflow.

And I think we were going to settle the land bridnge next. The only question was the northern or southern site. I preffer southern for security reasons, but that preference isn't white hot.My vote would be the northern site. It has more food available. If we do go with the northern site, have Balderdash build a Work Boat before the Galley.

Here is a re-post of a picture from a long time ago:

Nov 06, 2006, 12:05 PM
To me, it doesn't make sense to build military until our copper is hooked up. Once we have the copper in place, we can always put the Granaries on hold while we get an axe or two trained. Although, I must say that I like Whomp's idea of :whipped: the Granary at Balderdash.

I agree completely.

[/QUOTE]My vote would be the northern site. It has more food available. If we do go with the northern site, have Balderdash build a Work Boat before the Galley.[/QUOTE]

I am not uncomfortalbe with the northern site, but if we build an obelisk and a lighthouse the southern site has the wheat.

I would only say if we go with the northern site we should committ the workers to road there. I am paranoid.

Nov 06, 2006, 12:07 PM
How do you do that cool multi-quote thing? Look at that ugly mess I left in my last point.

On the other hand, this double post increases my count. I have that going for me...which is nice.

Tubby Rower
Nov 06, 2006, 12:12 PM
booti make sure that the quote tags are in this format

[XXXquote=Person talking]stuff said here[/quote]

just remove the XXX in the first tag ;) and it should look like this
stuff said here

Nov 06, 2006, 12:31 PM
:worship: Tubby is good. :worship: Tubby is wise :worship:


Nov 06, 2006, 12:41 PM
On the other hand, this double post increases my count. I have that going for me...which is nice.
To that I say....Gunga galunga....gunga, gunga-galunga...

Boots can you say something funny in the Glighthouse thread, please. It's what you do...which is nice.

Nov 06, 2006, 01:11 PM
Just finished the reading the posts and am planning on working on something this afternoon. But I need critique. I am so accostomed to playing up Idiot, I don't want to import too much of that.

Help me out, is Redneck different than idiot, and is there a different 'air' we want to exhude?

Nov 07, 2006, 04:19 PM
850 BC
Scooter defends against the barb warrior and is 1.4/2.0. He heads to meet our settler. Billy Bob finds the land bridge!

Our mine finishes at Hamburger (8 :hammers: in the bucket) and is producing 11 :hammers: so we can rush the gran after next turn. Same for Balderdash as its got 9 :hammers: and can do 13 :hammers: next turn.

Nov 09, 2006, 07:06 PM
825 BC Judaism is founded by someone. Aloha is the only one without religion.
This is a pleasant sight.
Sweet starts a road on the copper. Pind moves to the FP at Treacle. Move Billy Bob towards the land bridge in the west. Shift the tiles so we get 31 in Balderdash and 30 in Hamburger. I'll rush the grans next turn.

Will we start some axes? Should we turn off research when MC comes in and upgrade some warriors? How do we want to handle the Leader now?

The settler continues towards the land bridge with the warrior leading the way. The Leaders power just majorly spiked. In our pitboss game, Davemcw just finished 10 space parts in 2 turns so we have our hands full needless to say.

I've uploaded the save for Conroe or anyone who'd like to see it.

Nov 10, 2006, 10:05 PM
I've uploaded the save for Conroe or anyone who'd like to see it.Why thank you! After having a look at the save, I am first struck by a question. Whose dumb idea was it to build these Granaries? :shifty: Balderdash is at max happiness and has enough food to grow the pop back in 10 turns without a Granary. So, it really isn't critical that we finish that Granary right away. It would probably be better to put it on hold and save the :whipped: for a more important need. Hamburger is in a better position to use a Granary at the moment; however, would it be more prudent to :whipped: an Axeman rather than the Granary?

The Leaders power just majorly spiked. In our pitboss game, Davemcw just finished 10 space parts in 2 turns so we have our hands full needless to say.The power graph measures not only a civ's troop levels, but also its troop capabilities (i.e. its troop tech level). Since Epsilon just shot up this turn, my guess is they just completed researching Iron Working. I don't recall them having that tech in the last save that I looked at.

Their researching of Iron Working surprises me. With their Alphabet advantage on us, I would have thought they would have gone after Literature and the Great Library. I can think of only three reasons that they would go after Iron Working next. They have no copper and wanted to know if there was iron. This doesn't really make sense, because we can see that there is at least one source of copper in their territory. I find it hard to believe that they have not explored all of that land above the isthmus and found the copper. They founded a city in all of that jungle down by the isthmus. They would need Iron Working to clear the jungle to make the land viable. This is certainly plausible. It would make sense that they would want to block the isthmus from us, as we desire to do to them. And finally, Iron Working is one of the two remaining techs, after we give them Metal Casting, they would have needed for Macemen. This is a particularly disturbing if you consider that there is only 34 turns left in our peace treaty. Now, I have no MP experience, nor do I know the folks on this team. But from a financial perspective, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Paying city maintenance costs are bad enough at this stage of the game, without trying to pay for an army in the field.For a moment, though, lets assume we are in mortal danger. The counter to a Maceman is a Crossbowman. In order to build crossbows, we would need to research Hunting, Archery, Iron Working, and Machinery. We are looking at about 50 turns compared to the roughly 30 turns they would need for Machinery. In other words, it's not lookin' good.

The problem with going that route, though, is we would then be playing catch-up to these folks the rest of the game. Assuming they don't annilihate us first, that is. I'm going to suggest an alternative approach; one that leverages our Philosophical trait. A Great Scientist would allow us to light-buld Philosophy once we have Mathematics and Code of Laws. Note, though, we would also need to pick up a couple of religous techs in order to get CoL. Philosophy does two things for us: it gives us a religion and it opens up the Pacifism civic. Pacifism would give us a 50% increase in the rate of Great People generation. This in turn would allow us to light bulb a few more techs and hopefully leap frog them in the tech race.

This route is not without its risks, though. It only works if we have a religion. And frankly, Epsilon is in a much better position to light bulb Philosophy before us. They only need a GS and one tech, and have most likely already built a Library. We need to build a Library and get a GS, all the while going after four techs. If they have this same idea, they will beat us to it.

Sorry for such a long post. But, I thought we should start thinking about some of these issues.

Nov 11, 2006, 08:23 AM
I have downloaded the save and will look at it and am processing your post Conroe (wow, are you a thinker - I say that as a compliment, not the insult it is in my part of the country).

I do wonder, however, if a couple archers wouldn't account for the spike, or perhaps a chariot. I don't know enough about how the units are weighted for the graph to have an opinion.

I only mention this becuase as a rule, I am leary of bending our research path as a reaction to a possible move on the part of our opponenents, you described it as catchup.

I would prefer to lay out what we though was best to accomplish OUR objectives and adjust whenever new info/intel came our way and made that adjustment necessary.

As I say, I have to look at the save (thanks for posting it Whomp), and Conroe's course may be the best, I just don't know that we have enough information to say.

Which brings me to my second point. If the granery in Balderdash isn't necessary - I say go for a galley. I want to meet some of our neighbors and that may allow us the ability to triangulate on the Dear Leader.

Nov 11, 2006, 10:47 AM
OK I'm going to post the save here so we can decide what to do this turn.
Metal's in and we need to decide on the switch to axes.

And a message
Dear Piffle Priends,

Greetings again from the Golden Halls of Epsilon Eridani.
The Leader sends his greetings.

The Oracle has told us that wisepeople in your lands have learned the
secret of Casting Metal.
We are readying our scrolls with the Knowledge of Alphabet in
preparation for transport to your lands.
If you will offer and accept the trade on your turn, that should be
the most expedient way to conclude our deal.

Yours in Peace and Trade,
General W, Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team!

Nov 11, 2006, 02:33 PM
Metal's in and we need to decide on the switch to axes.I think Hamburger should be switched to an Axeman. Maybe whip it next turn and let the overflow go back into the granary. I think Kickbooti is right about the Galley. I would switch Balderdash to a Galley.

I would also be tempted to :whipped: that Worker out of Treacle Cottage. Put the overflow into either an Obelisk or a Granary.

The big question, though, is our research direction. If we want to go after crossbows, then I think we should research Hunting->Archery. If we want to go after Code of Laws, then I think we are looking at Meditation->Priesthood->CoL. A third option would be to research Mathematics to improve our forest chopping efficiency.

Dear Piffle Priends,Priends? Is that a typo or a bad joke?

Nov 11, 2006, 02:49 PM
It's a bad joke. :D

OK I'll make the switches. "The leader" already has CoL so hunting archery makes the most sense. They will trade the religious techs for masonry and fishing.

Here's the turn 800 BC
I offer MC for Alpha. We may want to open borders for a trade route with them.
Swith Hamburger to axe, rush the worker at Treacle and start a galley in Balderdash. Sent the settler up the landbride with our Scooter.

Send the warrior that was in Treacle southeast for more contacts

and Billy Bob continue northwest to make some other friends.

Research is set to archery in 2.

Nov 11, 2006, 07:28 PM
I say send the SE warrior right up the middle, he'll probably hit the coast soon and can swing back around to the west.

Have we decided on which Land Bridge site we will be settling? And (one more stump for the southern site) is it more imperative to get further up the bridge at this point or plant another city for growth?

And if we do want to get up the land bridge, I say the Settle and warrior might want to consider meeting up with the galley and going for the Ivory/Rice spot.

Nov 12, 2006, 12:43 AM
Have we decided on which Land Bridge site we will be settling? And (one more stump for the southern site) is it more imperative to get further up the bridge at this point or plant another city for growth?The northern site is the better city site, no question, from a long term perspective. The more defensible site, though, is that hill the Settler is standing on.

Time to decide! How about some team input?

Nov 12, 2006, 12:53 AM
North by all means.

Nov 12, 2006, 02:01 AM
north by northwest

Nov 13, 2006, 06:54 PM
Dear Tubby and Piffles,
Thanks for the prompt action on the trade – you have our gratitude.

We noticed it looks like you may have tried to type a message in the
diplomacy window? If so, it didn't come through – all we see is your
name displayed.

If, in fact, you were trying to send us a message, it's probably best
to stick with PM or e-mail to make sure we get it.

Thanks again,
Your friend at Epsilon,
General_W, Servant of the Leader
Epsilon Team

P.S. Also sent to Mr. Tubby Rower via PM
I replied where do we go from here? Should we ask if it was a mistake for them to be in bureaucracy?

775 BC
Our new worker finishes at Treacle Cottage and helps build the farm and start rax. We may want to make a obliesk. Not sure though.
Treacle Cottage should be a good GP farm.
Rush an axe at Hamburger and galley can be rushed at Balderdash after this turn.
I send Billy Bob further NW as he's being chased by a barb to his east.

Pictures for another possibility for a land bridge?

To the east of our settler

To the south
Archery due next.

Nov 16, 2006, 06:48 PM
Comments Please
750 BC
Hunting comes in and we start on archery due in 2. We can try to make a deal for IW (286 beakers) in exchange for our techs (228 beakers plus the 30 they owe for 258). This could also give us a chance to discuss their move to bureacracy. Maybe eek out 10-15 beakers from them and make the cash difference.

Rush the galley in the capital. I think more workers or settlers after this. Move the new axe from Hamburger towards the capital and continue with the gran. The FP will finish in 2. I'd like to send out the warrior in Balderdash east towards what appears to be another landbridge. Send Billy Bob NW...he's being stalked

and he sees a village....Pop?

Continue to move north with our settler/warrior pair. Which dot? Just a fyi pink is important in the words of Sirian. :D

A big picture view

Nov 17, 2006, 12:51 AM
Trade -- which techs are we offering them for IW? Trading cheap techs for IW is going to actually be a bit more in our favor due to the bonus they would get for researching itself (because I'm sure more people have the cheap techs than IW). So I generally vote "yay" on the trade... but I don't want to give them any economic/worker techs unless we have to.

Hut pop: yay
City #1: yay

Tubby Rower
Nov 17, 2006, 05:55 AM
I'm ok with the trade... straight up no additional from us.

pop da hut

plant on pink

and keep leading dem barbs away from us. Hopefully we'll find another civ and dump them off on them :lol:

Nov 17, 2006, 10:28 AM
Trade -- which techs are we offering them for IW? Trading cheap techs for IW is going to actually be a bit more in our favor due to the bonus they would get for researching itself (because I'm sure more people have the cheap techs than IW). So I generally vote "yay" on the trade... but I don't want to give them any economic/worker techs unless we have to.

Hut pop: yay
City #1: yayFishing, hunting and masonry. The advantage of getting IW will allow us to beeline for crossbows to thwart their potential mace incursion.

I'll pop the hut if the barbs aren't in the way and I'll plant on "pink dot" (tm our maker :worship:)

Nov 18, 2006, 10:18 AM
725 BC
See this :eek:

Billy Bob can't hit the hut because of the barb.

and a crossroads

Balderdash finishes the galley and begins work on a worker in 3. Get the granary at Hamburger next turn with a 1 food starve.

Tubby Rower
Nov 18, 2006, 11:59 AM
hopefully that barb will attack the leader. if he wins then it will give our warrior time to catch up. If he loses, we can found next turn

Nov 18, 2006, 09:58 PM
Go pop the hut at the crossroads. And let us hope the barbs take out the Leader's scouts. Is it wrong to wish ill on others?

Nov 20, 2006, 08:37 PM
700 BCOffer the trade with "The Leader" for IW.

Granary finishes in Hamburger and start a forge for Colossus. This city has greater potential to get Colossus than the capital. Chops are an option and food should allow it to grow into the mines.

Check this out
Fortify Scooter on the forest and move the settler back a spot. Our axe is moving in the direction just in case.

Another hut without the risk. It could be good timing as we'll finish archery next.

Move the workers towards Hamburger for either a chop or mining. The pigs will be in the house in 2 (really 1 in pbem, right? I forgot :old: )

Think about rushing the worker but it would cost -18 :mad: if I do. It's a 2 turn build so wait.

IMPORTANT: I will be out of town for Thanksgiving so someone will have to pick this up till I get back

Nov 20, 2006, 09:38 PM
Umm... if I knew when thanksgiving was, I'd be happy to oblige. :mischief:

What are you giving thanks to, anyway?

Nov 20, 2006, 09:52 PM
Umm... if I knew when thanksgiving was, I'd be happy to oblige. :mischief:

What are you giving thanks to, anyway?
Aha. Well it depends on who you ask Sweet. Most Americans believe it was a feast offered by the Indians to the pilgrims as a sign of friendship. Others might contend we are giving thanks to the people who made up the holiday during our Civil War to keep the American populous content at the time. :p

To me, I'm giving thanks because it's the best day of the year. Football and food. It all starts on Thursday and leftovers generally last till Sunday.

Nov 21, 2006, 10:47 AM
Ahhh, leftovers. They are generally recognized as an aboslute good. Nothing says Thanksgiving like eating until I labor to breath then falling asleep on the couch to the inevitable sounds of the Detroit Lions loosing...

Nov 21, 2006, 10:59 AM
Ahhh, leftovers. They are generally recognized as an aboslute good. Nothing says Thanksgiving like eating until I labor to breath then falling asleep on the couch to the inevitable sounds of the Detroit Lions loosing...Ahh...the beauty of tryptophan and couches. :sleep:

Nov 21, 2006, 08:21 PM
675 Some pictures this turn sorry but I forgot the settler/axe picture.
Archery comes in and start on machinery for crossbows.

We lost Scotter with 60.8% odds.:gripe:

Move our settler back two so it can load the galley with our axe. Tubby moves to a hill near Hamburger to ramp up production there, Pind starts a chop and Sweet finishes the pigs.

Billy Bob pops a hut and gets some hostility.

Here are the city screens.

Balderdash will finish another worker next turn. This will give us 4.

Hamburger will grow next turn.

Treacle Cottage will get a chop to hurry the rax.

Some interesting increases and decreases from the Leader. Any thoughts?
Mfg. Goods


Crop Yield

Nov 22, 2006, 08:14 AM

Not all that much to tell.. a bit of MMing, I switched Treacle to library before barracks so we can get the wheat in more quickly (sorry, in hindsight, I should've posted for discussion first), the warrior scouts moved toward their destinations, but revealed nothing new yet, and the axe and settler are both on the galley now.

The interesting things were the graphs, as in the last post... The Leader is going crazy for commerce.. and I assume for research, and has dropped mfg to about .. well not much. If you take a look at the demo screen, actually, I have no doubt that their numbers are:
gpt 51
mfg 4
food 46

Either they are just teching hard, or popping their cities for some whipping. Either way, I don't like it much. We COULD whip another 2 galleys and 5 axes together and go and hit them while their pants are down?? Or maybe just ask them what is going on...

Nov 22, 2006, 10:08 AM
Either they are just teching hard, or popping their cities for some whipping. Either way, I don't like it much. We COULD whip another 2 galleys and 5 axes together and go and hit them while their pants are down?? Or maybe just ask them what is going on...

This idea has some merrit.

Here are my questions
How long would it take us to get the forces required?
Do we think six axes could finish the job?
What impact would this have on our relations with others?

The last point is, for me, the most worrisome.

but, the fact remains, even if we cannot finish the leader off, the damage we could do to them by attacking is probably greater than the damage our whipping would do. It may be worth it.

Nov 24, 2006, 01:06 AM
If we do this, we should really time to hit them right at 1AD if at all possible.

At this point I bet six axes could do a lot. Take out at least one city. But, it appears that the Leader's cities are on the other side of the isthmus -- so we need a canal city first, or do we?

Nov 26, 2006, 07:06 PM
625 BC
Drop off the axe and settler on top of the Leaders warrior. I notice we lost Billy Bob too with huge odds. Well lets hope we get some RNG later.
Switch the capital to a axe in 3. I think the boat should go west.

Nov 29, 2006, 09:40 PM
600 BCEstablish Brilliant! on the isthmus.

Our worker NW of Treacle Cottage starts a farm. Our worker on the porkers move to a roaded forest at Hamburger and chops. Our galley heads west. There's got to be someone out there. Axe in Balderdash in 2 and Hamburger will grow next. Lib in Balderdash so we can run some scientists?

Nov 29, 2006, 11:15 PM
Our worker NW of Treacle Cottage starts a farm.
We are financial. We want to cottage those tiles along the river. They will give an immediate +1 commerce boost. With the corn and the 2 floodplains, the city will be able to work all of those riverside tiles without farming them. Don't forget that TC is going to spend most of the early game sitting at max pop because of the happiness cap. I say skip the farms and get those Workers busy chopping that Library. Once that is done, they can build cottages until the corn can be farmed. Edit: after some thought, it occurs to me that it may be better to whip the Library because of the the pre-Math chopping penalty. How many hammers remain?

As for Hamburger, I have no problem chopping the forge. But that Worker that is farming the plains tile needs to be doing something else. That is a low priority tile. The city already has 6 improved tiles that it can work. That Worker should either be assisting with the chop or be sent down to TC to do some chopping down there.

I would also consider putting that Axeman on hold in Balderdash to get a Workboat built for Brilliant. The faster that Brilliant can grow, the faster we can whip that Lighthouse. Which will grow the city even faster for some badly needed economy.

Edit: Whomp, you might consider turning on "detail city info" in the options screen. It will then show the number of turns to grow and complete the current build.

Tubby Rower
Nov 30, 2006, 06:43 AM
Brilliant!!! I like the little galley too :D

Nov 30, 2006, 08:51 AM
:sad: OK I will make the adjustments with the workers. I've rarely put cottages on plains so I'm counting on you guys to help me with the mm'ing and worker tasks.

Nov 30, 2006, 09:33 AM
Whomp, the key to MMing, esp MPemailG is just checking thru the cities each turn, and seeing what can be minimised, it only takes a short time. (Good ideas Conroe!)

Nov 30, 2006, 10:12 AM
:sad: OK I will make the adjustments with the workers. I've rarely put cottages on plains so I'm counting on you guys to help me with the mm'ing and worker tasks.I'm sorry, Whomp. I did not mean to come off so harsh. :eek: After rereading my post, I have come to the conclusion that I probably should not post half-inebriated. :( I probably could have done a better job of wording my thoughts ...

In looking at your screenshot of Worker actions, it seems to me that you were playing with your [civ3] hat on. In other words, "mine green and farm brown" is what I saw in the picture. Each city needs to be specialized as either a commerce or production city in [civ4]. In the early game, it is acceptable to have hybrid cities that can flip-flop. Often the capital is one such city, but it is then later specialized.

Treacle Cottage was placed with the intention of making it a commerce city. By cottaging the plains, you get the commerce advantage with the added benefit of a hammer. But at the cost of a food deficit. Eventually, though, the city will be able to generate a surplus of 8 food from the corn, floodplains and city center. This means that at max pop the city can work a maximum of 8 cottaged plains. Farming the floodplain initially was an excellent move. :goodjob: Since the city cannot access the corn until a border pop, this gives the city extra food to grow. That tile will eventually get cottaged, but probably not anytime soon.

Hopefully this is a little bit better of an explanation. And hopefully it makes sense.

Nov 30, 2006, 10:30 AM
Harsh? Ha! I've played games with Doc T. He's run me through the ringer on c3c so my skin is pretty thick.

You are right Conroe, I still wear my civ3 hat with more confidence than my civ4 hat. Civ3 comes naturally for me and Civ4 does not. It's one of the reasons why I'm a little uncomfortable as the turnplayer. What you're suggesting makes sense. I'm still learning the intricacies of city specialization.

Tubby Rower
Nov 30, 2006, 10:43 AM
I'm still learning the intricacies of city specialization.So am I but with you getting all of the heat :D

Dec 01, 2006, 10:36 PM
575 BC
Stop the farms at Treacle so we can make cottages instead. Should we move these workers to different tiles since it will save their work if we decide to build farms on these tiles?

Anyhow not much else. Axe will finish in the capital and I'll start a work boat. Galley continues west.

Dec 02, 2006, 11:46 PM
Stop the farms at Treacle so we can make cottages instead. Should we move these workers to different tiles since it will save their work if we decide to build farms on these tiles?I would put the Workers on the same tile that way it builds the cottages that much faster.

But first, do we chop the Library or whip it? If it is going to be chopped, then move both Workers onto the same forest tile and have them chop it.

Dec 03, 2006, 06:01 PM
550 BC
The forest chop finishes at Hamburger. We could rush the forge but it would cost 2 pop. Start a work boat (3) in Balderdash. Both Hamburger and Balderdash are at the happiness limit.

I move the worker one tile west and start a cottage. This way we can build a farm in one turn if we decide that makes sense. Treacle Cottage has two plains tile cottages being built.

Here's a picture of the diplo situation. Open Borders?

Here's tiles being worked.

A big picture view

Some of our missing techs along with maths and construction

Dec 03, 2006, 07:00 PM
Lots of good info, Whomp! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Both Hamburger and Balderdash are at the happiness limit.IIRC we have access to gold. Forges would grant us another +1 happiness. I would probably go ahead and whip them, as well. Since you get +1 happiness, this basically means you can whip a forge without incurring a happiness penalty. In 10 turns you will get the +1 happiness, possibly about the time the city will grow. This is a neat trick I learned in one of Mutineer's SG threads ( today.

Here's a picture of the diplo situation. Open Borders?I vote not yet. I'd still like to see what they are up to, military-wise.

Here's tiles being worked.What is the plan with that Library at TC? Whip or chop?

Some of our missing techs along with maths and constructionThanks for posting this. :goodjob: But, it does not show our current research. I really like Killercane's idea to lightbulb the GM. That means, though, that we will need to pick up Code of Laws before 250BC.

Dec 03, 2006, 07:06 PM
Good point on the forge with gold. I forgot that.

We're not close to using the whip at TC yet. I wasn't chopping there. The chop was at Hamburger.

I'll have the rest of the tech tree next turn.

Here's a save for you too Conroe. I forget you can't access it.

Dec 04, 2006, 04:55 AM
Two questions:

How is the research rate going? Can we look at another settler yet?
Can we get a scout, naval or otherwise up to the rice/ ivory, pls?

Dec 04, 2006, 08:55 AM
We have a work boat being built in the capital, forge in Hamburger (then Colossus?), Lib in Treacle Cottage and a lighthouse in Brilliant!. We could make a 2nd galley in the capital to head north or use the work boat temporarily. I forgot what our research rate was but iirc it was around 28 turns.

Dec 04, 2006, 09:42 PM
525 BC I'm inclined to start slowing the save since it seems like we're only getting a few of us discussing and I'd prefer to have a plan.

Start a cottage on a grassland at Hamburger. Rush 2 citizens at Hamburger with a 20 hammer overrun. We're 16-21 from machinery. Move the axe to Hamburger so we can move Stevie Ray out for exploration. Galley continues west and our other warrior is headed up the isthmus.

Dec 05, 2006, 08:49 AM
I'm for not accepting the open borders at this point.

Also I am in favor of a second galley sooner rather than later. Whomp, you are an awesome diplomat and not having access to other teams keeps one of our best tools in the shed.

I agree with what appears to be the consnsus that we need mroe cottages, but other than that it looks good.

I would also argue for walls in Briliant! when it is practical. I really don't trust the Leader.

Dec 06, 2006, 09:57 AM
Can someone grab the save? I won't be able to grab it till I get home tonight.

Dec 06, 2006, 07:21 PM
500 BC Hamburger finishes the forge and starts The Colossus.
Move a worker to a hill here.

Move a warrior out of Hamburger with a axe moving into the spot. The warrior heads west for contact. Same with the galley. Another warrior heads up the isthmus so we can re explore The Leader's territory.

Our work boat will finish in the capital next turn. MM for growth since we have an extra happy face to work with. Settler next I'd think. Thoughts?

Treacle Cottage will grow next turn.

Dec 07, 2006, 09:27 AM
I thought we were going for a galley next for exploration? Sorry, haven't looked at the save for a while. Another settler is good, unless the capitol is close to growing (probably just grew based on the previous screenie). Also, how's the worker count? looks fine

Tubby Rower
Dec 07, 2006, 09:27 AM
there is already a galley out exploring

Dec 07, 2006, 09:32 AM
Aye on the settler as long as we have units for police near at hand.

Dec 07, 2006, 01:17 PM
We have two extras running around. Depending on city placement will help me determine which to bring back for escort duty. I presume we want a city near the horses at some point or back up the istmus to the elephants?

Tubby Rower
Dec 07, 2006, 01:18 PM
I would prefer the helphalumps as they stroll over most everything until gunpowder

Dec 09, 2006, 03:33 PM
475 BCWork boat finishes in the capital and we start a settler. Move the workboat out. Treacle Cottage grows and the two cottages are done. Allocate the new citizen to the cottage. We can't rush the lib yet. Move the galley. Hamburger has Collosus due in 11. Send a warrior to a hill near Hamburger and spy a barb. Send the axe over for a promo opportunity. Start a mine on a hill for Hamburger. There will be 2 workers at Treacle ready for new missions. Cottages at Balderdash? Research due in 13.

Dec 10, 2006, 12:41 PM
450 BCWe'll get growth in Hamburger even by moving to a mined hill. Treacle Cottage can rush the lib next turn (60 hammers) with some slight starvation. Move one worker to a grassland near the capital to crank a cottage. The other worker will join Tubby on the hill. The barb is no longer around so I send out the warrior and the axe goes home. Our galley could pick up this warrior for a ride the the darkness. Thought? Seems to make sense to me.

City pictures and save.

Dec 11, 2006, 07:26 PM
425 BC Start off seeing the barb across from our warrior on a hill. He has bad odds so he jumps on the galley for a ride and heads west. Treacle Cottage is 30 away from a lib so I rush it. Hamburger is 6 turns away and is a :hammers: juggernaut at 27 per. The capital continues on the settler and a warrior is on the way for escort duty. The work boat is two turns from getting fish. One workers starts a cottage at Balderdash (4) and the other moves to a grassland inbetween Hamburger and Balderdash. We finish a mine for Balderdash which will help on growth. Demographics are looking pretty good.

Dec 13, 2006, 09:59 PM
400 BC Bad news. :(
We were about 4 turns away. We're 12 turns from MC so we'll be able to crank that up.

Move two workers finish a mine and move to a plains tile and start a cottage for Treacle Cottage. Our workboat moves to the spot. The galley with warrior aboard continues west while the barb warrior moves a tile closer to Hamburger. If it moves to the copper he'll need to die. Escort comes closer to home.

Dec 13, 2006, 10:21 PM
Crap :mad: Crap :gripe: Crap :aargh: Crap :cry:

So how much gold did we get?

Dec 13, 2006, 10:22 PM
We won't know till next turn. They finished this turn.

Tubby Rower
Dec 14, 2006, 06:11 AM
hmm.. that does kind of suck. What did you switch production to?

Dec 14, 2006, 09:11 AM
hmm.. that does kind of suck. What did you switch production to?
:blush: I didn't. I thought you had to play it out for the cash. Someone really needs to take these saves out of my hands. :lol:

Tubby Rower
Dec 14, 2006, 09:19 AM
if I could get a laptop at work to run [civ4] without the black terrain, then I could start taking them some. As it is right now, I don't have a lot of time to play at home and can't gaurantee that I would be able to take them when they come around

Dec 15, 2006, 10:13 PM
375 BC
Colossus brings cash and I start another axe. I think we need more military.
Plant the workboat on the spot for some fish. Crank research to 100% at -8gpt and MC in 10. Send out our axe since the barb is approach. Our galley continues west and the escort is back home. Here's a spaceshot.

Dec 17, 2006, 11:28 AM
The save is in and I'd like some discussion before I play the save.
Our axeman was attacked and won (4.0 now) at Hamburger. We have another barb near Treacle and should decide this turn whether we want to upgrade one of our warriors. It could probably be done next turn for 80g.

Here's the save too.

Dec 17, 2006, 07:26 PM
Turn 101-- 350 BC
Move the warrior SE of Balderdash over the worker. We'll have a axe ready next turn at Hamburger. What should we build next?

Move the axe that was attacked by the barb back to Hamburger to alleviate happiness issues. We're due to grow in 4 there but will have happiness issues. Should we start a engineer specialist?

Our two workers finished the plains cottage and one helps finishes the grass cottage and the other starts a road.

The settler in Balderdash will finish its settler in 2. MM for commerce on a cottage and water tile. What next?

Treacle Cottage continues its barracks. Continue?
Brilliant grows

Galley has to head south two tiles. The warrior is still aboard. Should we drop the warrior on top of the hut in a couple turns? We're 8 turns from MC.

We've been passed by The Leader in power.

Dec 17, 2006, 08:41 PM
We'll have a axe ready next turn at Hamburger. What should we build next?

Treacle Cottage continues its barracks. Continue?

Brilliant grows

Hamburger: I think we should build an Archer for each city's defense (2 in Brilliant). Although I'm not 100% sold on this idea. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Treacle Cottage: I really don't think the city needs a Barracks. Granary, maybe? Before deciding, what are our other choices?

Brialliant: :whipped: that Lighthouse the first chance you get. Then need to set the city to whip either a Granary or Library next. Probably Library. Anyone else have any thoughts?

When you get a chance, can you post an F5 (military) screenshot? Also, are we paying any unit/military support costs?

Also, what does the tech trade screen look like? Just wondering if they have picked up any new techs.

Dec 18, 2006, 12:36 AM
I agree to not needing barracks in Treacle Cottage: this town won't be pumping out much military in its lifetime. I would swap that to either a granary or an axe for barbs.

Dec 18, 2006, 06:43 AM
Agreed.. no need for a barracks in TC. Definately build a galley next, if not 2. The archers... well, if there is nothing else. They don't really hold up against axes, but they would free up our axes for more... active duty.

Dec 19, 2006, 12:12 PM
Can someone who has access post the save here. Conroe does not have access and I won't till 5 CST.

Tubby Rower
Dec 19, 2006, 12:27 PM
ask and you shall receive

Dec 19, 2006, 11:26 PM
Turn 102 - 325BC

We've got a barb Axeman outside of Hamburger's borders. Our wounded (1xp) Axeman will heal this turn and should be moved atop the copper mine hill next turn. Let the barb Axe come to him. The +25% hill defense bonus should bag him his 2nd xp point and make him eligible for promotion.

As for the barb around TC, not sure what he is up to. Best time to kill him is now, but the odds are only so-so. Decide to move the warrior atop the gold mine just to make sure it doesn't get pillaged. But then that will probably ensure he is the target.

Sent 2 Workers down to the corn at TC. The other 2 Workers will need to lay some cottages down in Balderdash in preparation for Beaucracy. The road to Brilliant can wait, as the city is already on the trade network. And if we are attacked, the city is toast, anyway.


Our Great Merchant will be born in 2 turns. As noted earlier, we have no use for Machinery (due in 7 turns, now). We have two options on how to get to Code of Laws.Meditation -> Priesthood -> Code of Laws = 14 turns
Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Laws = 28 turnsI'm undecided on the best way to get there. Unfortunately, no one else has any opinions on the subject. :sad: Since we are getting stomped in GNP at the moment, it is probably best to go the most expediant route. The Leader has Meditation, Polytheism, and Mathematics available for trade. We have Archery to offer. Switched us to Meditation and Priesthood.


Balderdash -> Settler due in 1 turn. :whipped: Why? The food is being converted to hammers. I want to let the food overflow into the next build. Which is? The city still needs a Granary, Forge, Library, and Barracks. There is also Kickbooti's Galley, which could be built in 4 turns.

Hamburger -> Seems like I'm the only one that liked the Archer idea. :) But with barb axes showing up, we could probably use a couple more of our own. So, I queued up 2 more Axemen; we can reevalute our needs after that. Said no to the engineer. Let the city grow. Whip anger will wear off in 2 turns, while city grows in 3 turns. Continue to let it grow, we will whip again later.

Treacle Cottage -> This city needs its food! Urg, no food until the border pops in 2 turns. We've got 2 turns to get at least 2 Workers down to the corn. The citizen working the cottage was hired as a scientist. When the borders pop, he should start working the corn. When the city hits size 3, hire back the scientist. At size 4, hire another scientist. Barracks isn't needed. Meant to start a Granary, but forgot. :blush: We will need to start this next turn followed by a forge for the happy face.

Brilliant -> Food uber alles! No changes this turn. This city will need to whip all of its infrastructure. It should be configured for max food (currently is) at all times. In 9 turns (or 18 hammers), we can :whipped: that Lighthouse. After that, it will need a Granary, Library, and Forge. All should be whipped!

Dec 21, 2006, 11:09 AM
Great update, Conroe. And don't worry about the granery. It could be worse...if I was running the turn somehow I know I would capitulate, and this is vanilla!

Dec 21, 2006, 01:02 PM
Great update, Conroe. And don't worry about the granery. It could be worse...The problem with the mistake -- and it was a bonehead mistake -- is these are all critical turns at the moment.

We had the GNP lead at the start of the game. We lost it when Epsilon jumped into bureaucracy. We were ranked 2nd in GNP until Aloha built the Colossus. Now we are ranked 3rd and the tech leader is our neighbor.

If you will have a look at the Top 5 Cities screen, you will notice that 3 of the teams have a size 8 capital. Ours is only size 6. That does not forebode well for the future. If we had a religion, ours could be size 9!

However, it is possible to save this game. Killercane came up with the idea of using our GM to lightbulb Civil Service. :goodjob: In about 18 turns, we should be able to revolt to bureaucracy -- that will go along way to helping us maintain GNP parity. Especially if we can get some cottages laid down around Balderdash over the next 10 turns. We've also hired a scientist in TC to start work on a GS. If we manage it right, we should be able to lightbulb Philosophy in 22 turns. If we're lucky (really lucky ??) then Taoism will be founded by us.

If all this happens, we could easily grow to become the tech leader. We now have our research path in place, but we still need to get our infrastructure in place.

There is a second benefit (besides happiness) to founding a religion. If Epsilon's religion spreads to our cities, they will be able to "spy" on our cities and troop movements. Fortunately, we are not on the trade network with them, yet.

Dec 21, 2006, 01:28 PM
For those of you focused on this thread
Here's a dispatch from Epsilon.

Dec 21, 2006, 07:41 PM
They're still looking for religion to spread: Our trade routes from the Great Lighthouse probably make them salivate at the thought of increased chances of religion coming our way. Have they built the Kong Miao? Or more aptly, have any messages for a Great Prophet shown up yet? It's only a matter of time since they built the Oracle.

Further, will opening borders help our tech rate more than it helps theirs? I would say that is the main consideration. Also, us being agreeable would surely help relations a little.

Dec 21, 2006, 07:48 PM
They're still looking for religion to spread: Our trade routes from the Great Lighthouse probably make them salivate at the thought of increased chances of religion coming our way.Sorry, but I don't understand this. :confused: I'm not aware of open borders having an impact on religion spread (other than allowing missionaries to enter). I also don't understand the connection between trade routes and religion spread.

Have they built the Kong Miao? Or more aptly, have any messages for a Great Prophet shown up yet? It's only a matter of time since they built the Oracle.No to the shrine. Mahivira born in 400BC and Moses in 650BC. The Hindu shrine was built in 625BC, BTW.

Dec 21, 2006, 08:19 PM
Turn 103 - 300BC

The barb Axeman outside of Hamburger moves closer to our copper mine. Our now healed (1xp) Axeman moves into position to defend the mine. The barb should attack on the IBT and die. We have a +25% hill defense bonus, plus another +25% for the barb attacking across a river.

The barb at TC decided to pillage our road rather than die. Our Warrior just fortifies. I'd rather defend in this situation.

We never answered Whomp's question about dropping off that Warrior atop the Goody Hut. I decided against it, because we would only have even odds against that barb.

But, then, look what our venturing Galley should spy! Is it possible that this might be that much fabled second isthmus? :please:


Balderdash -> I didn't get any feedback on the builds, so I just started Kickbooti's Galley. It will be due in 3 turns after MM'ing the city to slow down growth. I tried to maximize hammers without adding any turns to our research path.

The Great Merchant will be born next turn. I also have a couple of our Workers start two more cottages. I'd like to see about 5 or 6 cottages in this city before CS comes in.

Hamburger -> No Changes. Another Axeman will be ready in 2 turns. The one after that is showing 3 turns, but I'm guessing it will only take 2 turns after the overflow. What next? Another axe or maybe a spear?

Treacle Cottage -> Started a Granary. The city will pop its borders next turn. When it does, put the scientist to work on the corn fields. When the city hits size 3, hire back the scientist. At size 4, hire another scientist. Doing this will pop us a Great Scientist in 22 turns.

Brilliant -> Food uber alles! No changes this turn. Whip the Lighthouse in 8 turns (or 16 hammers). After that, I'm thinking we should chop/whip a Forge to make future whips worth 37 hammers. This city is going to get a lot of the :whipped:.

Dec 21, 2006, 08:38 PM
I forgot a screenshot ...

Here are our trading options now that Epsilon has access to coastal trading:

When playing the AI, only surplus resources are shown (for the AI). Does it work the same way in MP mode? In other words, are those Epsilon's surplus resources or is that everything they have that we don't?

Dec 21, 2006, 08:55 PM
Yes you will see what they have and as well what we are up on them.

Dec 21, 2006, 09:28 PM
Conroe, what I meant is that religion also spreads naturally through trade routes. By opening our borders we open ourselves to the random spread of Confucianism, not just their missionaries. The rate of this is increased when a shrine is built.

Dec 21, 2006, 10:01 PM
AFAIK religion spreading along the trade network will happen whether you have open borders or not. The only way that I know to stop it is to adopt Theocracy.

Dec 21, 2006, 11:18 PM
Wait, you're right; I was confusing Open Borders with opening trade routes for some reason :crazyeye:

Dec 22, 2006, 01:47 PM
I would feel good about building a spear at burger and sending up the isthmus. If any city needs a good defensive mix, it is our northernmost city on the isthmus.

Tubby Rower
Dec 22, 2006, 03:43 PM
When playing the AI, only surplus resources are shown (for the AI).in MP mode... what you see is what they have. If it says 1 that's their only source... if it say 2 then they have 1 surplus

Dec 27, 2006, 10:46 AM
Turn 104 - 275BC

Our Axeman gaurding Hamburger's copper mine took quite a beating, but was victorious in the end. He has been sent back to Hamburger to heal, while Hamburger's MP takes his place atop the copper mine.

Meanwhile our Warrior gaurding the gold mine gets a splinter from the barb Warrior's club. He heads towards Treacle Cottage to take the place of the dispatched MP. TC's dispatched MP will meet up with our Settler heading towards the silver site.

Meditation is complete and we start on Priesthood. It will be done in 2 turns. Code of Laws is still showing 10 turns. And, of course, our Great Merchant (Harkuf) has been born in Balderdash.

Our exploring Galley is fairly certain that it has found the 2nd isthmus.


Balderdash -> Changed one citizen from a 3 commerce coastal tile to our new 3 commerce riverside cottage. Kickbooti's Galley will be complete in 2 turns. The city needs at least 2 more cottages to be built before CS comes in.

Hamburger -> No Changes. The city will grow to size 6 next turn. I turned on emphasize hammers so that the governor will assign the citizen to a high hammer tile. Another Axeman is due next turn.

Treacle Cottage -> Fired the scientist and put him to work on the corn fields, now that the borders have popped. The city will grow to size 3 next turn. When that happens, we need to hire the scientist back. At size 4, hire a 2nd scientist.

Brilliant -> Food uber alles! No changes this turn. Whip the Lighthouse in 7 turns. After that, I'm thinking we should chop/whip a Forge to make future whips worth 37 hammers. This city is going to see a lot of the :whipped:.

Dec 27, 2006, 06:57 PM
Have they built the Kong Miao? Or more aptly, have any messages for a Great Prophet shown up yet? It's only a matter of time since they built the Oracle.No to the shrine. Mahivira born in 400BC and Moses in 650BC. The Hindu shrine was built in 625BC, BTW.This is something that I forgot to mention in my report. There was a message in the log that Zoroaster (Great Prophet) was born in 275BC in a distant land. Since it was in the log this turn, that means that either Epsilon or Loco got the GP.

My guess is it was Epsilon that got the GP. We'll know for certain if a shrine is built next turn. :undecide:

Dec 27, 2006, 07:12 PM
We're so close to meeting someone. :dance: Great work Conroe.

Dec 28, 2006, 08:58 AM
More ivory! Good job Conroe. Let's plant a city up on the second Isthmus and see if we can't grab the other Ivory too! Let us begin a monopoly on war elephants!

I know, that is crazy talk, but that is what I'm here for.

Dec 28, 2006, 04:56 PM
We're so close to meeting someone. :dance: Great work Conroe.I think the credit belongs to you, Whomp. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: You were the one that built the Galley and pointed it in that direction. I just followed the coastline. Good job, Whomp!

Let's plant a city up on the second Isthmus and see if we can't grab the other Ivory too!I'm not sure that this would be a good idea. That city would be so far away from our capital, that I would think the maintenance costs would kill us. The ivory would be nice, though.

Dec 28, 2006, 04:59 PM
Turn 105 - 250BC

We may have a problem with financing our Code of Laws research. We have been running the research slider at 100%. At that rate, we are showing 1 turn remaining on Priesthood and 10 turns on Code of Laws. With the training of our latest Axeman, our net expenses ticked up a notch to -9gpt. We have only 99 gold in the treasury (-9gpt * 11 turns = 99 gold :dubious: ). We will catch a bit of a break on the research overflow, but founding a new city and training a couple more units (and a Galley) may hamper our research efforts.

Our exploring Galley offloaded the Warrior. I'd say we have found the end of the 2nd isthmus. I'd suggest we send the Galley and the Warrior off into opposite directions. But first, a question for the team: Would it be better to recall our Galley? In other words, how will the other team react to the fact that we have boats in the water? Or, do we even care?


Balderdash -> Galley due next turn. Reworked citizen tiles to maximize commerce at the expense of hammers. Basicially, I'm trying to maximize the research overflow, at the expense of the production overflow.

Hamburger -> Axeman is complete. We had another Axeman in the queue; I changed it to a Spearman, based upon the earlier recommendations. Reworked the citizens to maximize hammers, at the cost of some starvation, to get the spear next turn.

Treacle Cottage -> Change of plans. I hired both scientists this turn rather than waiting for the city to hit size 4. After playing with the numbers, I realized we could pop the Great Scientist 3 turns sooner with minimal impact to the cities future growth rate. At this point, we should pop our GS in 17 turns. Hopefully Taoism will still be around. :please:

Brilliant -> Food uber alles! No changes this turn. Whip the Lighthouse in 6 turns. The city will grow to size 3 next turn.


An update on financing our research: After pressing Enter, the system is showing 7 turns to complete CoL. My guess is it will end up being 8 turns after Balderdash is configured back the way it was before I maximized the research overflow. It looks like it worked out better than I had hoped!

Dec 28, 2006, 05:26 PM
Since you can see inside galleys in civ4 I'd say no one will care what it does. I think they'll be as happy for the contact. This should be the team we consider partnering with long term imo.

Dec 31, 2006, 04:32 PM
Turn 106 - 225BC

I wasn't sure if I pressed the right button at first on the trade screen. But after checking, the system says we have open borders with Epsilon. However, we have NO foreign trade routes! Zero, zip, zilch!

More barbs! :gripe: Ok, so they are only barb Warriors, but still! I was planning on sending that Axeman to the west. Instead, I fortify him. The first barb Warrior will suicide against him, while the other one heads towards the copper mine. Next turn, our axe can move back to defend the copper mine.

The Code of Laws research will be done in 7 turns. :thumbsup: I'm assuming that our GM will not give us all of Civil Service, so maybe another 3 or 4 turns after that to complete CS.

First Contact! :band: Ok, probably not first contact, but at least we have now met someone else.
Would someone care to prepare a nice letter of introduction?

Here is the trade screen for Aloha.

What would have been real nice is if I had taken some shots of the various graphs since Aloha is now on them. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, I am in a bit of a hurry because of tonight's festivities. I will get them up tomorrow.


Balderdash -> Galley completed and city resumes the Granary sitting in the queue. Put the reworked citizens back the way they were last turn.

Hamburger -> Spearman is complete and an Axeman is started. Put the reworked citizens back the way they were last turn.

Treacle Cottage -> No changes. City is now working the irrigated corn fields while running 2 scientists. We have 24/200 GS points at +12 per turn.

Brilliant -> No changes. We can whip the Lighthouse in 5 turns.


Our new (and only) Spearman is dispatched on GoTo orders to Brilliant. It is a 12 turn trip. :eek: Meanwhile, our 2nd Galley sails out of Balderdash's port. It will take 6 turns for it to reach the ivory at the top of the isthmus.

Since we are not ready for another city, financial-wise, I hold the Settler in place. In the meantime, we could use some city name suggestions.


Jan 01, 2007, 11:37 AM
As promised, the screenshots of the various graphs are in the post attachments below. I did not include the culture graph because of the forum's 5 attachment limit. Besides, Aloha is creative, they definitely have a lot more culture than us. :)

Also, here is a look at an updated "Top 5 Cities" list since it is updated with their information.

Jan 02, 2007, 12:53 PM
Turn 107 - 200BC

Start by turning off research (we were at 100%). Not sure that I like this idea, but I have no better ideas to offer. We will accumulate 37 gold for a total of 118 available next turn. Since we have 2 scientists running, I switch the research back to Machinery. Adding those 6 beakers will slow down any beaker decay (none so far) on that tech.

Now to the barb situation ... What can I say? I was wrong! The barb Warrior did not attack our Axeman during the IBT. On top of that, a 3rd barb Warrior has appeared. :rolleyes: I'm going to pull our axe back to defend the copper mine. Hopefully he will get attacked twice during this IBT.

Our explorers in the west report that the Aloha isthmus may actually be an isthmus junction. Or possibly the isthmus does not lead to Aloha? Will we meet another team soon? (

Meanwhile, our newest Galley continues to sail out of the Gulf of Balderdash. He will eventually head NE towards Epsilon.

If you will recall that I said last turn that I would hold our silver city Settler in place. I did go ahead and send the Warrior escort forward to do a little fog busting. And what should he find? Another source of silver. Check the dot map thread ( for a screenshot. Since we have some extra money from this turn of 0% research, I send the Settler forward. Not sure if this was a good idea, since I seem to be the only one in favor of this city ...


Balderdash -> No changes. Granary will be complete next turn. The city needs a Barracks, Library, and Forge. Another Settler would also be a good idea, but I'm leaning towards infrastructure.

Hamburger -> No changes. Axeman due next turn. As this city contains our only Barracks, I'd like to keep it on troop training duty. What is next, another axe or another spear?

Treacle Cottage -> No changes. We have 36/200 GS points at +12 per turn. If I've done the math correctly, we should have a GS in 14 turns.

Brilliant -> No changes. We can whip the Lighthouse in 4 turns.


We still need some city name suggestions for our Settler. You probably don't want me picking the city names, they definitely won't be Brilliant! :groucho:

The thumbnail attachments below are our cities. And here is a look at our troop levels:

Jan 02, 2007, 08:26 PM
I for one thoroughly hate the silver site. Get that dude over by some food on the east coast and another settler to take advantage of the FP in the west where the barbs are. Monarchy will allow for the same happiness improvement as the silver at much less cost. A city at that silver site will sit there for the rest of the game, barely paying for itself.

Jan 03, 2007, 09:59 AM
I'm totally against the silver site at this stage, and am thinking stretch for the ivory, or settle the western fps. On the east, the pink is not an ideal city, but has strategic importance, and will at least get the wheat and 3gpt coasts. What about moving red 1S and blue 1W for a better fit??
I for one thoroughly hate the silver site. Get that dude over by some food on the east coast and another settler to take advantage of the FP in the west where the barbs are. Monarchy will allow for the same happiness improvement as the silver at much less cost. A city at that silver site will sit there for the rest of the game, barely paying for itself.

Ok, fine ... I give in ... The silver city is OUT. This is a team game and I'm the only one that likes the city. Our Settler should be able to make it to either the isthmus site or the east coast food city in 4 turns. The western floodplains are looking to be about 7 turns. Pick the one that you want first.

As for the silver city not paying for itself, I disagree. Balderdash and Hamburger are sitting at the happiness cap. If TC wasn't working a GS, it would be at the happiness cap in 10-15 turns. Brilliant is going to be whipped mercilessly and will thus be at the happiness cap in the same timeframe.

The two extra happiness from the silver would mean two more productive citizens in every city. Assuming they worked cottages or coastal tiles, that translates to 6 commerce in 4 cities for a total of 24 extra commerce.

As for using HR to provide that happiness, we don't yet have the troop strength for that. Our troops need to be out busting fog and preparing for expansion, not holed up in our cities providing happiness. Realistically, Brilliant is the only city that will see a HR benefit beyond 1 happy face.

As for it being a worthless city, I think mediocre would be a better term. True, it will never be an economic power house, but it would have been a mediocre production city. I did a small test in WB -- the city can grow to size 13 (pre-Biology). Here is a shot of what it would like at a size 8 happiness cap:


My apologies for this post turning out to be a bit of a rant. :blush: I just disagree on this point. I promise, I will shut up now about this city. But please, lets all agree on the next city. We are eventually going to found all 3 of the alternate sites. Let's get some consensus on which one we found first.

Jan 03, 2007, 10:15 AM
While looking at the save for some dotmapping, I discovered this little gem that I missed earlier:

Tubby Rower
Jan 03, 2007, 10:21 AM
I think that Conroe's points are valid. Maybe this could be the next city founded? an additional lux would be nice.

As far as the other three choices... I would prefer the blue dot. East coast city.

Tubby Rower
Jan 03, 2007, 10:22 AM
That wounded barb isn't as interesting as the 2 promoted barbs since that probably means either a city or a lot of dead rivals' warriors

Jan 03, 2007, 08:27 PM
I like east coast city now for the food. Next city, unless one is just jumping out at us, should be the silver, and I would get that one out quickly as well. I agree with Conroe's logic here: even if we get Monarchy, that's two less units we need to garrison in our cities.

Jan 05, 2007, 11:28 AM
Turn 108 - 175BC

Since nobody raised any objections to turning research back on, I will start with that. Research is set back to Code of Laws (6 turns) at 100%. We are draining -10gpt from our 118 treasury of gold.

On to the barbs at Hamburger. Only one barb suicided against our Axeman (3.5 of 5 health) on the IBT.

Our wounded axe is the first to attack. He kills the barb Warrior on the forested hill with 81.5% odds. Next up is our newest Axeman who takes out the wounded barb standing on the plains tile. Only one barb Warrior remains for next turn. Hopefully he will suicide on the IBT.

Meanwhile, our explorers in the west reveal nothing too exciting. And our eastern Galley continues its trek to Epsilon.

And then to our Settler. Tubby, Pindicator, and Killercane all voted for the east coast food city. This would probably be my choice, as well. Sweetacshon was the only decenting vote with ivory or western floodplains. So, off to the east our Settler goes!

At this point, I realized that I could have just made a huge mistake! Remember earlier when I said that our Settler could make it to the east coast in 4 turns? Well, that was because the Settler is a 2-move unit. I just plowed our Settler forward, into the fog, without an escort. :eek: I got lucky, this time. No barbs.

Do we want to rethink this decision? The Settler can be at the isthmus in 3 turns or the food city in 5 turns.


Balderdash -> Granary is complete and the city starts on a Forge. We also badly need a Library to be built before Bureaucracy. I doubt that it can happen, but at least the Forge can be whipped without a happiness penalty.

Hamburger -> Our newest Axeman has already seen action! I am leaning towards starting another spear for Brilliant. But because of all of the talk about cities on the western floodplains, I go ahead and start a Settler. After that, we've got to get this city back on troop training duty. This city contains our only Barracks.

Treacle Cottage -> No changes. We have 48/200 GS points at +12 per turn. We should have a GS in 13 turns.

Brilliant -> Hire a citizen specialist for an extra hammer. By doing this, we can whip the Lighthouse in 2 turns (rather than 3 turns) at the expense of 3 beakers per turn. Wish I would have thought of this sooner. :blush:

Tubby Rower
Jan 05, 2007, 11:36 AM
Do we want to rethink this decision? The Settler can be at the isthmus in 3 turns or the food city in 5 turns.I would be fine with the isthmus.

Jan 05, 2007, 06:00 PM
If not the ivory, then the Isthmus. It is a canal and will be on our roading que anyway.

Jan 05, 2007, 08:36 PM
At the very least, don't send the settler further east by himself. Actually, in the last WOTM, I lost a settler where the escorting warrior was a move or 2 ahead, and a wolf slipped in from the side :D

Jan 07, 2007, 04:45 PM
Turn 109 - 150BC

I agreed to the open borders request that Aloha sent over. I'm not sure about the "mapable trade route" issue, as we're now getting 12 commerce from foreign trade routes. We've got 5 foreign trade routes with Aloha and 1 with Epsilon.

The barb at Hamburger decided against suicide. Our healthy axe goes ahead and whacks him anyway. Our wounded axe is set to heal for the next 3 turns. So much for the barbs.

Our explorers in the west reveal that the isthmus apparently does not lead to Aloha. The Galley and the Warrior decide to part ways. Meanwhile, our Galley in the east sails through Brilliant. The Galley will be visible to Epsilon's fortified Warrior next turn. Our Settler heads north towards the isthmus. His Warrior escort decides to continue eastward into the fog.


Balderdash -> The whip anger will wear off in 3 turns. Decided to sacrifice some hammers in order to work the corn. City will now grow in 3 turns.

Hamburger -> No Changes. Settler due in 4 turns.

Treacle Cottage -> No changes. We have 60/200 GS points at +12 per turn. We should have a GS in 12 turns.

Brilliant -> No changes. The Lighthouse can be :whipped: next turn.


Epsilon has apparently completed their Currency research, as gold trading is now enabled with them.

Jan 08, 2007, 09:17 PM
Turn 110 - 125BC

Finally, a turn without barbs! :yeah: Our wounded axe still needs 2 more turns to heal. Meanwhile, our healthy axe will head southeast for some fog busting duties.

Our explorers in the west find nothing of note. Our Galley sailing towards Epsilon is now visible to Epsilon's fortified Warrior.

Meanwhile, our Settler approaches the isthmus. His former escort continues eastward into the fog.


Balderdash -> No changes. The whip anger will wear off in 2 turns, as the city grows to size 6.

Hamburger -> No changes. Settler due in 3 turns.

Treacle Cottage -> No changes. We have 72/200 GS points at +12 per turn. We should have a GS in 11 turns.

Brilliant -> The Lighthouse is :whipped: for one pop. It will be built next turn and the city is now size 2. Set the extra citizen to work food rather than hammers. From now on, everything will be whipped. What's next? I'm leaning towards a Granary that can be whipped at size 4. A Forge can be whipped at size 6 when combined with a forest chop.


Epsilon's bureaucracy fueled capital has grown to size 9. Meanwhile, we are 4 turns away from completing our research into Code of Laws. I'm guessing maybe 8 turns total until we can switch to bureaucracy ourselves.