View Full Version : Problems with Emperor


Minrhael
Apr 21, 2006, 05:19 AM
Still getting smashed when trying to play Emperor, so I thought I'd see if anyone is interested in playing out an epic speed Tokugawa continents game with what I thought was an excellent starting position, but which I just can't seem to win. Don't have the original turn save so you're stuck with my city founding and first warrior move, but the city is in the best spot anyway.

You start with 2 clams and 2 goldmines, yet I can't seem to expand fast enough to keep up with the opponents on the other continent; I can slowly beat down the ones on my continent, but just not quickly enough. Assuming you can win it, I'd appreciate seeing a save or 2 after founding 2nd city and hearing how you went about it, because I've failed 4 times now (while playing out the initial turns the same every time like I didn't know what was around me).

Epic speed, continents, standard rules, 1.61 patch.

Mutineer
Apr 21, 2006, 06:23 AM
I did not have mach time, but how about this position?

Oggums
Apr 21, 2006, 11:30 AM
I'll play this one after work. ;)

For the record, I usually play continents and almost always lose on Emperor due to Space Race from the "other continent" superpower.

Cam_H
Apr 23, 2006, 01:29 PM
Played it, and got within 20 turns of winning :(

With respect to Kyoto's great city radius, there's relatively few good available settling positions after founding the second city - which should be somewhere near the Marble to the west provided you can beat the Romans to it. There's also every chance you'll get stuck in the middle of a religious war between the three Spiritual tribes on the continent (including 'Insane Issie' and 'Mad Monty'). To add insult to injury, you've got an iron-resourced Rome as a neighbour, and yep, when you meet Alex and Huayna Capac, they're likely to be a tech' age ahead and irritated by your converted religion.

While I'm yet to win this, my gut feel is to go with a peaceful victory (but that's my Achilles' heel to begin with!) ; keep Montezuma 'on side' throughout, and take two shots at Mansa to knock him out. I found that he was stuck with largely Skirmishers for the early game, so a combination Swordsman and Axeman rush should be sufficient to take at least three of his cities, and then a Samurai and Catapult combination later on should be sufficient to deal with the remainder of Mali. If you want to expand 'naturally' in the Ancient and Classical Eras, the west seems to be the only option, as in my attempt Mansa filled the area to Kyoto's south-east very quickly.

While Tokugawa probably has the worst traits imaginable to win a Cultural victory, if you can engineer things right, and pick up a few of the Marble-aided wonders such as The Sistine Chapel and The Great Library, this victory may obtainable. You also need to be a little lucky in getting a sufficient number of religions to make their way into your empire, and any AI invasions are mild and managable. In the later part of the game, I had a handful of enemy cities flip to me.

I'm looking forward to giving this game another go at some point.

Oggums
Apr 23, 2006, 06:27 PM
I haven't finished the game yet but here's some saves with descriptions. Going for space race.

80 AD

Tokyo's starting location was great, but with all that jungle and Mansa/Caesar so close, there wasn't really room for expansion. I initially figured I'd build 2 more cities for military production, while the capital concentrated on commerce. I put my second city (Osaka) near the marble, but so did Ceasar just north of me. His culture beat me to it, but I still had a nice place for military production for the entire game, eventually building the Heroic Epic there. By the time I had founded Osaka, Mansa was already moving westward under me in the jungle, and Ceasar had another city to the west, which left me no good spot to place a 3rd city. The Iron at Tokyo was a lucky break, so two cities was plenty to build up an army.

I didn't make notes, but I believe my Initial build order was Work Boat, Worker, a few Warriors, Settler, Library, Oracle.

Research went something like Bronze Working, then straight to Alphabet. After getting Alphabet and doing tech trades around 1400-ish (had met Monte, Isabella, Ceasar and Mansa by then), it looked like I'd probably still have time to chop a couple forests and finish up the Oracle while researching Code of Laws.

So, luckily nobody build the Oracle before me, and I picked up Civil Service at around 1000 BC. Switching to Bureaucracy gave me plenty of beakers to easily stay in the tech lead. I built a few Swords and Spears while researching Monarchy and Construction, switched to Hereditary rule, and put in an Aqueduct.

Diplomacy at this point had Montezuma disliked by most, as well as behind in techs, so I went with open borders and did tech trades with everyone except Montezuma. I decided my first victim would be Montezuma. His disposition became worse as I refused his demands.

After Construction I started stockpiling catapults and went straight for Machinery. Montezuma declared war on me during this period, and I was able to bribe others into the war with techs. I did lose my mines and worker at Osaka however, due to those damnable horse archer pillagers, which put a damper on my forge and catapult construction. In 80 BC, I finished research Machinery and began producing Samurai.

Mansa, Caesar and Isabella were all Pleased with me at this point, so I didn't expect to have to worry about my back while I went after Montezuma.


590 AD

My Samurai captured Tenochitlan (Buddhist holy city) and I made peace with Montezuma in order to build up my defenses. Isabella and Mansa didn't stay at war very long with Montezuma, and consequently, Osaka wound up taking the brunt of his attacks, leaving it with pillaged lands and only a single warrior left to defend.

I converted to Confucianism, along with Caesar and Mansa, then switched to Theocracy. I didn't want my closest neighbors backstabbing me while my defenses were low, so I went with the religious buddy system. I figured this would tick Isabella off, and after I finished up Montezuma, I'd take her lands next.

My research plan was to continue to trade techs, while hording my military advantage with Civil Service + Machinery. In this save, I had clicked on Liberalism, but I'm pretty sure I researched Engineering next for the +1 road movement. Mansa, with only 3 cities, was already starting to get away from the pack in research at this point.


1388 AD

I wiped out Montezuma.

After researching Engineering, I went for Optics to meet my distant rivals, and was the first to circumnavigate the globe in the process. On the other side of the world, it seems that Alexandar has put his thumb down hard on Huyana, leaving him with what looks like only 2 small cities on an island. They are both backwards in techs, but Alexandar has a lot of land now and will catch up quickly when he meets my closer rivals.

Caesar and Mansa are Friendly with me, while Isabella is now only cautious. Isabella does not seem like a threat, however, so I decided to next take a slice out of the current top dog on my continent, Caesar.

Liberalism is due to me next, and I'm taking Astronomy for my freebie.


1685 AD

Caesar is toast. I left him with a single tundra city down below Isabella's territory, and yet he's still pleased with me. Isabella is pleased despite our religious differences, and Mansa is still friendly. Mansa is in the way however, and despite his small land holdings, he's running away from the world in techs. Mansa's time has come and I've bumped him to the top of my list.

Alexander is not so backward any more on techs. With all his land, he'll run wild soon, and I should take the fight to him. He is annoyed with me, as I've stopped trading with him; He doesn't need my help. This is where I usually blow my Emperor games. Loading up boats and taking the fight to the other super power is such a hassle, so I'm probably just going to go for another space race. We'll see how it goes. Maybe I'll get to use nukes this game.

For techs, I researched toward steel for grenadiers + cannons, while continuing to use my Samurai. Due to my growing empire, I'm going for Railroads next before Rifles so that I can move my troups more quickly.


1746 AD

Alexander jacked my Timbuktu. He has too many Cavalry, so I'm going to let it slide. Since I've already nabbed Mansa's holy city, I made peace with Mansa (he's still pleased!). I'll let Alexander fight for Mansa's other city so he wont turn on me next, and hopefully he'll burn some of his units while I reinforce mine.

I'm going to go after Isabella's capital and holy city next. I'm also going to set up a city to pump out Great Prophets, to build shrines. I'll be going wild with missionaries as well.

Not much else to say about this save.

Oggums
Apr 23, 2006, 06:35 PM
This is my last save. It's almost over, but turns are taking forever due to perpetual war with Alexander.

1912 AD

I've finally claimed the rest of my continent, with the exception of the two cities that Alexander took from Mansa. After taking Isabella's capital, I made peace and then waited until I had tanks and bombers for the last wave. I have 4 spies ready to go overseas on a transport, so I can mess with Alexander. As soon as that transport is close, I'll declare war and take those two cities.

My Great Prophet farm has worked out nicely, and I now have six holy shrines supplementing my income.

Alexander has catapulted ahead in techs, but I'm not far behind. He's way ahead of me on the power graph, so I'm going to prepare bombers and destroyers to protect my coast.

Took a break to tell my story. I'll post the end later.

GabrielArgent
Apr 23, 2006, 08:34 PM
Oggums, I was wondering if you could tell me how you made the name tags above your cities? Or if it is a mod of some sort where I can get it?

Thanks in advance

Oggums
Apr 23, 2006, 09:32 PM
Alt-S will put you in "sign" mode, then you can left click to put a sign down or right click to get out of the mode (I think ESC takes you our also, as does ALT-S again). When you're in sign mode, you can also left click on an existing sign to delete it.

Alternatively, you can zoom out to the world view and click on the leftmost icon on the bottom right side of the interface to place signs and also draw lines.

Anyway, finally finished this monster. For a number of turns I was 1% short of the land for Domination, and just a handful of votes short of voting myself in for a Dimplomatic win.

I finally won Diplomatic with 522 out of 522 votes, although I'm positive I had the space race in the bag as well. I had the space elevator and my spies were keeping Alexander's aluminum disabled, so he wasn't going to beat me to that.

Mutineer
Apr 25, 2006, 05:05 AM
Well, I played a bit more. That is position at the moment.

Mutineer
Apr 25, 2006, 08:27 AM
One more save

Qitai
Apr 25, 2006, 09:27 AM
Played abit too. 460 BC and leading 3-4 times in research capability. Also, flipped the Roman city with the horse after founding a religion and getting oracle in the second city. Got the Stonehedge and Great Library too. Next task is to just go full military and conquer the continent. Should be easy from this point onward given the significant lead in technology.

Cam_H
Apr 25, 2006, 09:36 PM
Can I ask if everyone's playing with 1.61 installed?

Unfortunately I'm nowhere near my Civ computer, so can't look at the games, but I'm impressed how everyone's picking up The Oracle. I had another quick shot at this game, but went directly to Iron Working, and by the time I had Priesthood and was two-thirds of the way through building The Oracle, it went to the AI.

Anyway, it's encouraging to see success with it! Well done.

Mutineer
Apr 25, 2006, 10:56 PM
Yes, 1.61 instaled. but if you look on my first save with this order you will pick civil service on any dificulty with 2 gooldmines.
2 Goldmines are just a huge advantage.

Qitai was a bit lucky with his build/research order. It seems most AI are deep in jungle, so he manage to get late oracle in.

Qitai
Apr 26, 2006, 12:56 AM
1.61.

Yeap, the Oracle was kind of late for an emperor game. Normally, I would have gone Poly--> Priest --> Writing and get alphabet with the Oracle. But with the 2 gold mines, I had no problem researching Alphabet or any other tech myself. So, attempted the CS slighshot and did it. Everyone on this continent was at war anyway.

Oggums
Apr 26, 2006, 11:42 AM
1.61 here

I got in a late Oracle as well, around 1000 BC. Usually the AI would have built it by then on Emperor.

Mutineer
Apr 27, 2006, 06:09 AM
Well, it is all decided. Only mooping up left and getting to victory conditions.

This continent is all mine.

Cam_H
Apr 27, 2006, 06:32 PM
Many thanks for posting your games Mutineer, Oggums, and Qitai - really interesting to see both the similarities and differences in the approaches taken.

Mutineer ... I am somewhat :worship: with your early game and taking out the Romans! I often find Caesar a difficult enemy, because of his Praet's in the Classical Era, and the massive stacks of units he builds from then on. You seem to have hit him just as he was starting to build a bit of momentum up (only two Praetorians?), albeit he had double Japan's strength on the power rating when it seems that you went to war.

Mutineer
Apr 27, 2006, 07:55 PM
Difference is that insted of cottaging second city I farmed all floodplains. With slavery and Monarchy it let me to whipe Units fast in addition to normal burocracy capital production. Romans did not have any time to build any stack, why my fog busting warriors were providing all happiness my second city needed for this whyping.
Yes, I think at max My second city was something like 70 turns of unhappiness, but who cares when it bring me all Roman Empire?

Mutineer
Apr 28, 2006, 05:51 AM
Finished it.
Domination victory 1832.

Cam_H
Apr 28, 2006, 06:07 AM
As if there were any doubt! ;)

I wonder if we'll hear from Minrhael again?

Hans Lemurson
Apr 28, 2006, 06:54 AM
Nay, you shall not hear from me again, for I have ascended to a new level of grace and am now one with the cosmos. They don't have Civ4 out here in the cosmos, this sucks.:mischief:100% authentic...

Oggums
Apr 28, 2006, 10:31 AM
With slavery and Monarchy it let me to whipe Units fast in addition to normal burocracy capital production. Romans did not have any time to build any stack, why my fog busting warriors were providing all happiness my second city needed for this whyping.
Yes, I think at max My second city was something like 70 turns of unhappiness, but who cares when it bring me all Roman Empire?

What a fantastically simple idea, using slavery with hereditery rule to counter the unhappiness. I don't know why I didn't think of something so simple. I've been waiting for the happy-modifier to go away before whipping again.

Minrhael
Apr 28, 2006, 05:52 PM
I'm still around, I just got sucked in by GC2 ;)

For one, i never even realized you could go from priesthood to writing, I always went via pottery, explains some of my slow slings, and I never even tried for oracle just assuming as this was my first emperor games that the computer would beat me there easily. Haven't looked at most of the late saves yet due to GC.

I have downloaded them though, and do thank you all for posting them!

Oggums
Apr 28, 2006, 05:58 PM
Posts: 2

Welcome back!