GOTM 54 First Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have:

Contact with all other civilizations.
A map of the main continent, showing (at least) the capital cities of all other civilizations.
Have reached the middle ages.

What was your strategy for the early game, and did you modify it once you had the 'lay of the land'?

Open, ancient age from 4000 - 210 BC

After some consideration I decided to play open, as there's no real reason to play predator. Plan was to research pots and wheel asap and then secure us a nice piece of land. Thebes was founded 2NE. Other cities were build at RCP4x (Memphis, Heliopolis and Alexandria) and at RCP6x (Elephantine and Pi-Ramesses).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_gotm54_1.JPG

Ofcourse the scouting warrior discovered the fast array of mountains, which made our starting position practically an island. These troublesome starting positions are becoming quite fashionable. So I did went for mapping and the scouting warrior would remain for a long time the only unit to reach our neighbours by traveling over land.

Researching mapping and having our horses behind two mountains was enough delay for not going all out on a warchariot-rush. By the time the chariots came online and we could reach our neighbours over sea, I already had a decent amount of swordsmen.

The chinese were nearest and had fine lands, so they were my first victims. Having swordsmen available did enable me to prospone a Golden Age until we could get monarchy in a peacedeal. The war against the chinese was going so well that I decided to grab a piece of the US too.

At 210BC peace with China and US is declared, we're in our GA and building the FP in Beijing. Beijing has room for 7 RCP3 cities around it, so it's an excellant FP-site. Plans after that is to conduct a research game and knock out the remaining Chinese and USers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_gotm54_2.JPG

I see you're well on your way to beat me to a high research victory, Redbad, your start is overall a couple of notches better.

I had a similar start, but built only Warchariots, my first mistake. Keeping up in techs was easy but I made a mistake of not inciting warfare on the continent using a monopoly tech. As a result, my opponents expanded peacefully and I waited too long building up my forces, another mistake. As soon as the americans were deemed weak, I attacked and had no problem getting them down to a single remote city. Opportunistic warfare against the Celts was also succesfull, claiming the heavily jungled region. By then, I was in no position to expand agressively any further.

I palace jumped to former american soil, built the FP with a leader and set my MA goals on clearing jungle (lots of workers) and building infrastructure.

Open, Ancient Age from 4000 - 370 BC

Settling the Rock

I started my moving the settler to the hill and then roaded the BG when nothing special appeared. Thebes was founded on the spot next turn. In retrospect, it may have been better to move once more in order to bring the fish into play.

When F10 revealed that there were no commercial civs were in the game, I decided to research Alphabet and Math in the hopes of getting two good techs for trading purposes. The alternative would be The Wheel, but that is not as valuable and doesn’t lead to such nice secondary techs.

I met the Chinese in 3350BC. They knew BW, WC and Pottery (had they met someone already?). Naturally, they were not willing to trade anything for CB.

My initial builds were three warriors and a settler. In 2900, Memphis was founded on the hill by the fish. It built a warrior for defence followed a temple to bring wines into play. Meanwhile the capital started on a barracks.

The following year I met the Celts and traded Masonry for Warrior Code straight up.

2630BC was a banner year. I met the Americans and Germans. I also brought in Alphabet as a monopoly tech and traded around for BW, Pottery, TW, Mysticism, 2 workers and 33g! I started in on Math at max as planned and switched the capital from a barracks to a granary. The next turn, I bought IW from the Germans for TW, Myst and 38g. I sold that to the Americans a couple of turns later in exchange for a worker and 10g.

At this point, I started immediately on a road to the outside world with a worker and a slave, stopping to mine a hill for a future city on the way. A worker and a slave make a nice combo: two turns to road a hill and three turns for a mountain.

In 2310 I got yet another worker from the Chinese. This was all the workers that the industrious Egyptian nation would need for more than a thousand years. It's been a long time since I played an industrious civ in vanilla. I'd forgotten just what a pleasure it is.

In 1830BC, the Germans learned Writing so I traded it for contact with the Arabs, Celts and Chinese (Chinese?? :scan:), gaining 63g as well. I then traded writing around, getting about 80 more gold. In 1700 Math came in as a monopoly tech, confirmed in the big picture. Infuriatingly, the Chinese and Arabs had learned Math and HBR by the end of the inter-turn and traded with each other leaving me out in the cold. :mad: I did trade the tech to the Celts later for HBR, which went to Lincoln for 42g. As planned I started on a Currency min-sci so for the next part of the game, I quietly built infra, military and cities.

Noteworthy events of this period:
1650 Heliopolis founded on the plains by the wheat
1600 Elephantine founded on the hill by the cow
1500 Bismarck threatened war. Surprisingly he backed down when I refused to give in.
1425 Alexandria founded in position to claim the iron
1350 Everyone suddenly knew Mapmaking. I traded maps around, netting a full world map and 59 gold to boot. I did not trade for the tech itself. Useless except for harbours and I was far from ready for them.
1200 Pi-Rameses founded at the northern horses, connecting them to the core
1175 Giza founded at the eastern horses, the last place to settle in our mountains.
1150 First war chariot rolls off the assembly line. The Great Northern Road reaches grassland! Did anyone beat this date? Get the Forbidden Palace message.
1100 Arabs declared war
1075 Iron connected; upgrade 8 warriors to swordsmen
1000 Iron disconnected again

QSC stats
Firaxis score:246
7 cities, pop 15, 289 gold
1 settler, 1(!) worker and 5 slaves
3 barracks, 3 temples, 2 granaries
All first and second level techs. No third.
3 warriors, 1 archer, 1 spear, 8 swords and 2 war chariots


The wars.

My plan was to build a new capital on the forest between the two wheats in the far north with a ring of cities at RCP 4 around it. As the capital of modern Egypt, it would be called Cairo. Byblos, founded in 925BC, would be the first of the cities in the ring. The Chinese cities of Nanking and Chengdu have to fall in order to make space for our new nation. Eventually New York, which is in the ring, must assimilate to the Egyptian juggernaut as well.

However, in 925BC, the year I declared war on China, Berlin finished the Pyramids. Berlin is not far from our new lands and must be higher priority than New York as this wonder will be very useful to allow the new cities to grow rapidly. The plan thus was a series of quick wars, first on China, then on Germany and finally on America, allowing us to stake out our new kingdom. Initially the wars would be fought with swords. At some point we would revolt to Republic and a War Chariot would bring on our GA.


China

Would the plan work? It started out badly as three veteran swordsmen died in the assault on Nanking, but the city duly fell. Cairo was founded in 750 BC. Mao built The Great Wall in the next inter-turn as I had readied my attack on Chengdu :sad: but the city was destroyed at a cost of three more swords. I had attained my goal. Mao sued for peace offering four techs and 59g.

On to Berlin. Six more swords have been trained for that purpose, giving nine in total. Most production is switched over to War Chariots. The Age of the Sword will soon come to an end.

In 710BC, my min-sci on Currency came in and, for the second time, an AI learnt it in the inter-turn after the big picture! This gets lame. This time it was the Celts. The Arabs discovered Polytheism at the same time, the last of the required techs for the MA. I traded Currency for Construction, a worker and some cash. I next started research on Republic. Even at full speed, it was slated to take 27 turns.


Germany

In 570 BC, I declared war on Germany and moved a force of eight swordsmen and an archer towards Berlin. This time the PRG Gods were more gentle. In 530 BC, the city fell without loss and the Pyramids were mine. In 470BC, The Great Northern Road reached the former German capital.

The following turn everyone suddenly learnt Polytheism, Currency and the Republic, all entering the ME together. The good news was that my research time to Republic had suddenly dropped to 3 turns and Poly was only 5 more. A massive barb uprising was announced near Berlin, but it was really in German lands. I took care to place War Chariots everywhere to prevent having to deal with it myself. I watched a humungous number of barbs move on Hamburg and the city suddenly dropped from size 4 to size 1. In other news, Frankfurt fell as I started to go after German luxes.

In 370, the Arabs sued for peace. I accepted in exchange for Polytheism, putting an end to our long phoney war and entered into the Middle Ages. Otto learned Monotheismas his free and is "doubtful" about whether to share it with us. I guess he just needs a bit more convincing. :devil:


Future plans

At this point I know Republic but I am not quite ready for a revolt. According to CivAssist II, with the capital in Thebes and no FP, we are more productive in despotism than republic. However, that will change soon. Memphis will finish the FP in seven turns. After that we revolt and the capital will be moved to Aegyptus Novus..

Already, CA tells us that we are most productive with the capital in Cairo and the FP in Memphis. This will only get better as more cities are added to the ring and they are allowed to grow. So far they have been mainly building workers and the odd temple. Once we revolt, the American and Chinese blots on my lands will be eradicated and the GA will start. We already have 11 chariots and plenty more will be built in time for the wars.

Aegyptus Novus

Beijing has room for 7 RCP3 cities around it, so it's an excellant FP-site.It took me quite a while to understand why you said this since RCP doesn't work around an FP. Then the light bulb finally lit up; it's because your capital is RCP 4, just like my new one will be :cool:

In view of this consideration, I may move Elephantine to be closer to Memphis. I had already been planning to build a new FP if I get a leader. Thanks for the insight on how to choose the site!

Edit: this seems like a good site. The second ring at RCP 6-7 should be productive too.

Correct: the cities around my Beijing at RCP3 will get no rank corruption, due to them being closer to Beijing then any cities distance to Thebe.

But there's another advantage due to Ainwood's mean starting position and my choice of Beijing as FP. I could only fit 5 cities around Thebe. All other cities I will found or conquer in the Chinese and US lands will be closer to Beijing then to Thebe. So their rank corruption will not exceed 6. ;)

RCP impact – The above basically means you just need to do RCP on the palace. Cities around the FP gains the benefit automatically, provided the city distance is not more than the rings at the palace. RCP around the FP does not help at all.


Additional Comment 1 – Even a simpler approach of ICS near FP and sparse city placement at palace will help greatly in this battle against corruption since the sparse placement near the palace will help the city corruption near FP.

Ofcourse I didn't ICS around Beijing as I would consider that expoitive. But also on the other hand I didn't jump the palace to an area where it could be surrounded by more cities, because I normally rarely jump the palace in my games.

Keeping up in techs was easy but I made a mistake of not inciting warfare on the continent using a monopoly tech.

I'm not sure if that was a mistake. On emperor the AI can still be useful in the MA for a research-game. Ofcourse the civs victimised by your expansion much rather want to stay angry then help research. But, in my game, the Germans and Arabs were quite helpful.

But there's another advantage due to Ainwood's mean starting position and my choice of Beijing as FP. I could only fit 5 cities around Thebe. All other cities I will found or conquer in the Chinese and US lands will be closer to Beijing then to Thebe. So their rank corruption will not exceed 6. ;)


This is most interesting. I really need to dig into these PTW details, as I never really played it until I got curious about it after playing C3C (which was my first Civ experience). I'd have to say to... C3C makes life a lot easier. Build around the core, perhaps another few cities with a courthouse, ICS the rest.

open ptw 20k

the starting position is so poor. after establishing two cities around the capital, i had to put cities down in those mountain region to get the iron and horse. great library really helped me tremendously this time. started war against China right after GL gave me Monarchy. i got about 8 chariots then and only got one of his cities before the momentum disappeared. but got golden age triggered and this helped a little. the middle age doesn't look optimistic since the terrain around my spearhead cities don't look very lead-farming friendly.
only got the colossus and great library in AA in my capital. one highlight is that i got a great leader for the first elite win and it hurries the FP in a city between china and germany. but this luck is followed by an unbearably long drought of leaders...

But there's another advantage due to Ainwood's mean starting position and my choice of Beijing as FP. FYI - I actually improved the starting position - it was originally an island, and the bonuses weren't there! :p

FYI - I actually improved the starting position - it was originally an island, and the bonuses weren't there! :p

The starting position will make decisions about the War Chariot interesting. I felt I'd invested enough in Wheel when I got a real feel for where I was that I wasn't going back - even if I had to just sit there peacefully until Chivalry. Then some fortuitous events - I decided not to b-line to Monarchy but to Republic and get Galleys along the way in case I wanted to take those Chariots across the pond ... maxing out research left me in the red, so when the Arabs came knocking with crazy demands (which I would otherwise give in too) I refused, knowing I would lose a hard-won improvement. They declared war, the Chinese joined suit, and so did the Germans. Saladinn and the Krauts were too far away and China's assault was pretty weak, defeating a lone archer gave me the GA and then I had time to build about 25 veteran Chariots, three galleys and roads leading up through the mountains.

Germany and the Arabs never even entered the picture, and we eventually sued for peace with Mao left with two cities. Frankly, I just wanted the spices and furs, but I'm entering the MA with #1 landmass - quite a surprise given my thoughts at the beginning.

First time I've ever had fun with Chariots.

Cheers.

124653

built capital in 3950BC on a hill NE.Settled 3 towns at RCP 3, 2 at RCP 6, one on horses and a town near chinese territory before 1000BC. built two granaries early for faster growth, 3 temples for cultural expansion and4 barracks. Around 900Bc built iron colony and started upgrading warriors to swords. upgraded 9 warriors and started war with china. quite easily conquered china.since starting location was poor in 450BC performed palace jump to Beijing and started building cities around it at RCP4 and RCP6. Started war against Americans, captured 3 cities and around 230BC got republic and revolted, in 210 BC entered MA.
Plan is world DOMINATION, using chariots and knights.

Playing on since my last post and something odd is happening. Maybe it's a bug, or something written into GOTM AI worker actions or something I just haven't encountered before and can't explain: two German workers (we have ROP) are deep inside my Chinese territory building what seem to be extraneous roads. Our capitals are already connected, their cities are far, far away, there seems to be nothing to hook up. Do they know something I don't? Future resources? I'll post a screenshot later if necessary.

Gracias.

Yes you very well could be right. The AI does know where future resources are. To often have I witnessed them building cities in inlogical places (middle of the desert or jungle for example). Later there turned out to be modern resources there. I also can't think of any other reason.
Ofcourse I couldn't comment on a screenshot as I know already the location of all modern resources ;)

GOTM 54, Open. Military solution.

4000BC - Settler NE. Sees a Fish which looks like it will be wasted. Plan from Pregame thread was to go N to get better RCP. RCP2 will get the Fish. Worker road BG.
3950BC - Settler N.
3900BC - Thebes. We have Wine, woo-hoo! Build War-War-War-Settler. Research Wheel.
3150BC - W2 sees Cow. W1 sees a lot of mountains. W3 guards Thebes.
3050BC - W1 meets Chinese. Sell them CB for 10g as they won't trade anything else.

2710BC - Memphis founded near Cow. Deside on RCP-4 and RCP-2, but Memphis is 1st at RCP4. Same turn get Wheel, sell to Chinese for Pottery. Memphis can build Granary now. Deside to do Mysticism->Poly->Monarchy and trade them for BW-IW as will try to play Military game. See 2 Horses beyond Mountains.

2430BC - Meet America, they already have Mysticism.
2110BC - meet Kelts and Arabs. Sell Wheel to Arabs for BW.
2030BC - meet Germans.
1400BC - Build Horse colony.
1175BC - Buy Poly from China, trade it for WC from Americans, buy IW from Germans for Wm+35g. Start Monarchy.

QSC - 1000BC. 6 towns, 12 pop. 1 settler, 5 workers, 1 slave (bought), 1 granary, 1 temple, 4 barracks, 7 warriors, 5 Chariots. Science: all 1st tier + IW, Mysticism & Poly.

750BC - We are at a phoney war with Arabs for some time, and their warrior finally reaches our borders. Chariot starts GA, we make peace with Arabs and dow China. Next turns everybody but Arabs ally against us.
550BC - Peace with China for 2 of their cities, Writing & Math, TM and 40g. They are left with 3 size 1 towns.

490BC - Research Monarchy 1st, trade it for all MA techs+ Lit+ Republic, except HBR (delayed it wanting to keep Chariots), make peace with everyone but America, get WM, revolt to Monarchy. We have 7 turns of GA left.

450BC - Resume war with China.
410BC - Peace with China for HBR, so finally enter MA.

And here I discover that: 1) Even though I have HBR I still can build Chariots! And my GA is over. Why is it so? 2) China also has Feudalism and Engineering. :( If I didn't delay HBR I could have beaten them out of China.

Also this turn: 1st GL against Americans (will use for FP). Attack China again, China gone.

We are at 470BC:

Even though I have HBR I still can build Chariots! And my GA is over. Why is it so?

I don't know this for certain, but I think it works along these lines:
An UU replaces a normal unit A. (in this situation unit A is a chariot). Unit A gets obsolete by being able to build unit B (in this situation unit B is a horseman). The UU then can no longer be built if 1. you started or had your GA and 2. unit B is considered "better" then the UU.

In this situation the warchariots advantage of being 10 shields cheaper is weighed against the horsemans advantage of being able to cross mountains and jungles. CIV3 doesn't consider the horseman being "better".
I think the same applies towards the swiss mercanary and the musketman.

It is of course rather debatetable as for instance the mace is considered "better" then the gallic swordsman. I think the unit shield cost is weighed quite heavyly.

But again: the above is just my impression. I have no real facts to support this explanation.

Does the war cart actually upgrade to the horse? Firaxis could have kept the war cart buildable simply by setting its upgrade to be the knight instead of the horse.
I seem to recall (maybe around the time of the sid game) Doc Tsiolkovsky saying that technically the musket :boo: upgraded to the swiss :yay: which would acheive a similar result.
I suppose the other classic downgrade is the Iroquois brave -> knight. More than double the cost for an extra point of attack (and some def, for what it's worth). Seems like an even worse deal than pikes -> muskets.

Looking For The Perfect Spot
This is a crummy start, so I want to find a better spot for my 20k town. I settle within range of the fish and start pumping out axes (3) to go and look for that promised land. Research is set to Wheel, as I know no one else will have it, and it allows me to see the resource for my UU. Bad choice - playing 20k, I'm hardly going to want to do a chariot rush, so I should have started with the other monopoly choice, Alphabet, which would lead to much more useful things.

Getting the Second Town Placed
Obviously the land north is worthless for building strong towns. I actually consider trekking all the way up to the dyes/beegees cluster east of China, but that's silly - it would take ages and then the Chinese would probably just attack me for being too near and too weak. So I run some numbers on the grasslands west of the start. I want the fish, whale, moo and wine, but I can't have them all. Actually, the strongest spot shield-wise would eventually be NW of the wine, which would only hit size 18. But I like commerce in my 20k town too, and a site on the coast would be just as strong during the crucial medieval era, as well as having a Colossus; I found Memphis north of the fish in 2630bc.

Getting Behind
My tech isn't going brilliantly; when I first meet Mao in 3050bc, I can't do any interesting trades, but getting Wheel allows me to take Bronze and Pots from him. By 2670bc, he has Mysticism. I meet Abe in 2510bc, and he is up Mysticism, War Code and Ironwork. Similarly I can't trade with Brennus when my axes reach him in 2110bc, but finally I get a break; I meet Otto in 2070bc, and having researched Mysticism by hand, I can trade with him to get War Code and Ironwork. I'm close to parity.

Still No Alphabet?
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. I research it after Mysticism, and find that still no one else has gone for it. They are too busy doing stuff like Polytheism! In 1625bc, I sell Alphabet around to get back to tech parity. Abu is finally met in 1575bc, but he is very backwards, so I just sell him techs when he cleans out barb camps. After Alphabet I do Maths, as I desperately need to get Construction for an aqueduct. Of course, the AI doesn't go for Maths much, so I can use it to get Writing and Riding (1200bc).

AI Builds Big
The world is too peaceful though. The AI all have Pyramid builds on the go, which is really going to threaten my attempts to get wonders. In 1200bc, Entremont completes Oracle, the first of many wonders that town will take. I haven't started enough wars, so when Otto comes demanding in 1125bc, I just let him dow, and sign Mao up to fight him. I can't afford to buy anyone else in though - I should have been more aggressive with this kind of negative diplomacy earlier. It looks like my strategy is starting to slip.

QSC Stats
4 towns with 13 pop and 80 tiles.
43 food in the bin, 232 shields in the box, 74g in the treasury.
1 temple, 1 granary.
1 settler, 1 worker, 9 axes (1 vet).
All first and second tier techs, Polytheism, 117 beakers of Literature.
5 contacts, 3 embassies.
That gets me 2273 QSC points. It isn't my lowest QSC score for a 20k game, but it does look like my worst start; my only culture in Memphis is the temple (built 2070bc).

Looking Forward
Still, by the end of the ancient age, I would have all the ancient wonders, except for the Oracle of Entremont. And the Pyramids. And the Glibrary, Gardens, Lighthouse and Wall. But I'm not worried by Ionimplant's 20k run, oh no, because I'm gonna build an early colosseum :D
Really, this is a pretty desperate start for a 20k game. Memphis spent a lot of time maxed out at aroud 5spt, and of course I have to wait for Construction before I can go over size 6. I've also killed most of my best land, as I don't want to settle between the capital and 20k town for the sake of corruption. That puts the plains wheat out of commission, and the moo is left for a little town north of Memphis, dedicated to building those 20-shield workers... not good at all. If I get sufficiently disgusted with my own 20k progress, I might settle for a diplo, or head on for a milk run. And I will definitely be wanting to work my frustratiion out on the AI :hammer:

I actually consider trekking all the way up to the dyes/beegees cluster east of China, but that's silly - it would take ages and then the Chinese would probably just attack me for being too near and too weak.

How could you know about these things at this time?

Open class
Victory Condition also open


Starting Moves

The settler moved up on the hill and saw little. The worker began
building a road on the bonus grassland and then also a mine. Thebes
was founded to the east by the fish, the idea being that fish is good
for research and looking further seems senseless. Initial build was
warrior and initial research Alphabet.


Settlement And Improvement

Thebes built two warriors, a settler, three warriors, a settler, one
turn wealth and then another settler who (at size two and zero growth)
took the rest of Thebes with him as he left to found Elephantine by
the cattle. The palace was immediately reerected in Memphis. From then
on, cities were placed at a distance of four tiles from Memphis. Five
such cities could be fit in. At the end of the ancient age, Byblos was
founded between cattle and fresh water on the main continent.

3900 BC 2 Found Thebes
2800 BC 24 Found Memphis
2030 BC 43 Found Heliopolis
1675 BC 53 Jump Palace to Memphis
1600 BC 56 Found Elephantine
1175 BC 73 Found Alexandria
1150 BC 74 Found Pi-Ramesses
900 BC 84 Found Giza
775 BC 89 Connect Iron Build Colony. Upgrade six veteran Warriors.
690 BC 93 Connect Continent Road finished unto mainland Grassland
670 BC 94 Found Byblos


Research and Diplomacy

In the ancient age, we discovered Alphabet, Writing and Literature. We
did try for Currency, but were beaten to it. Upon meeting China we
refrained from trading Alphabet. Four turns later we met America and
could get more for it. Through peaceful trade we could keep up in
scientific discoveries through the first two tiers. The Arabic war was
eventless.

2630 BC 28 Discover Alphabet
2550 BC 30 Meet China
2390 BC 34 Meet America
2390 BC 34 Learn Warrior Code
2390 BC 34 Learn The Wheel
2390 BC 34 Learn Pottery
2390 BC 34 Learn Mysticism
2350 BC 35 Meet Arabia
2350 BC 35 Learn Bronze Working
1990 BC 44 Meet Germany
1990 BC 44 Learn Iron Working
1990 BC 44 Learn Horseback Riding
1830 BC 48 Meet The Celts
1700 BC 52 Discover Writing
1700 BC 52 Learn Mathematics
1225 BC 71 War Arabia
1025 BC 79 Peace Arabia

Now we were beginning to fall behind and so hurled a massive force of
three veteran archers and a warrior against China. We had just used a
German slave to build a colony on the iron, and veteran Swordsmen were
on their way northwards. Germany opportunistically declared war on us
in the beginning of the Chinese campaign, and soon America joined
in. Two peace deals with China brought us into the middle ages.

850 BC 86 War China
730 BC 91 War Germany
730 BC 91 Peace China
730 BC 91 Learn Philosophy
730 BC 91 Learn Currency
730 BC 91 Learn Construction
730 BC 91 Learn Code of Laws
710 BC 92 War China
690 BC 93 War America
630 BC 96 Peace China
630 BC 96 Learn Polytheism
630 BC 96 Enter Middle Ages


Quick Start Challenge Results

5 Cities
7 Citizens
1 Luxury
5 Contacts
2 Workers
1 Slave
10 Warriors
3 Archers
1 Spearman
Missing 5 technologies in the ancient age
QSC score 2409

How could you know about these things at this time?

Well, to get technical (sorry; I just love an excuse to refer back to my turn log), the first axe's path is: 3400bc built in Thebes, NW W N on a road, N W N N N NE N N N N W W W N N. Which puts me on the hill overlooking that big patch of beegees in 2670bc.
Meanwhile, Thebes builds a couple more axes and a settler, which is ready in 2710bc. But it is a long way over to the site I chose for Memphis (RCP6), so in 2630bc the settler had the choice of walking off north for almost 20 turns to get to the good land (and then disbanding Thebes, I suppose), or founding my 20k town. Of course I settled, but I rather regret that. Going north would have been a crazy thing to do, but it least it would have been interesting, and my game could hardly have gone much worse than it has...

The Littlest Wonder
In 925bc, Memphis finally finishes Colossus. It has taken a gruelling 41 turns. My decision to take the whale instead of the moo was, in retrospect, dire. My reasoning was of course that if the 20k town didn't have the whale, no one would, whereas I could get the moo with another town which could specialise on pop growth. In the long run, the two choices work out roughly equal in power, but I didn't consider the implications for the ancient age, and they are severe.

The Cascades Begin
The rest of the game feels like one long cascade of wonder building; the AI getting the obscure tech needed for the next wonder, right before someone else builds the last one and breaks the wonder chain. And it starts right here; in 590bc the Germans build Pyramids, and in response the Chinese, who did not have Literature last turn, switch to the Great Library. I can't race them for it - Memphis is still stuck on 5spt.

Up To Second Gear
So let the wonders go hang. I need to get Memphis productive before I can even start crying over my spilt milk. The aqueduct is finished in 450bc, and a couple of workers join the town. With no Oracle and just one luxury, happiness is an issue, but I have good commerce in Memphis, so I can use the lux slider quite efficiently. Next up is the Forbidden Palace, which finishes in 30bc. So finally Memphis is up to size and uncorrupted.

Beyond the Mountains
Meanwhile, I am still at war with Germany, and their armies have finally arrived at the gates of my northernmost town, which is built on the dyes. I hold off the first wave of attackers, but there are plenty more coming along. I give the town to Brennus to force Otto to come down and try to attack my chokepoint forts. The plan backfires; Otto is unwilling or unable to pass through the Celtic territory, so I am left with nothing to fight.
Nothing to fight until Mao joins up with Otto that is. China dows in 90bc, and my forts prepare themselves for the assault.

Defense or Offense?
There is no assault. Eventually my swords start getting restless, and head out to try and take the nearest Chinese town. Medieval units set upon them from all sides, and a hasty retreat is ordered. With the swords routed, my forts must seem more like viable targets, as the Chinese armies start closing in on them. At the same time (170ad), the German military shows up again. The chokepoint won't withstand both these enemies, so I agree peace with Otto. I have to pay him 150g for the privilege. :sad:

Crawling Over the Line
More Chinese troops arrive and I start to fear for my chances of holding the forts, so in 190ad I give Mao peace too. With no ally to back him up, I can get roughly even terms (a w map swap). I finish Republic the same turn, and immediately revolt. Only Currency is left for the ancient age. I blast through this and hit the medieval in 260ad. The other civs have all been medieval for about 20 turns - everyone is working on Sun Tzu.

20k builds (F5 style)
2630bc - Memphis founded
2110bc - temple
950bc - Colossus
750bc - library
50bc - Forbidden Palace
150ad - colosseum

Which should make 698 culture at 260ad, doing 17cpt. The world's #1 city is Entremont, and all the ancient wonders have been built.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif
PTW - goal: space is the place.

Settler moves NE, spots the fish and moves further NE, to found Thebes in a position that allows to exploit both the fish and a BG, after the cultural expansion; worker moves N and improves the grass, then steps back S and works the BG. Research is set to Alphabet at max. The initial build order is warrior -> warrior -> settler. A quick exploration shows that a capital on the tile NE of the wines would have been ideal for a ring placement, with 3 cities at rank 4, 2 at rank 4.5 and 1 at rank 5. City 2 (Memphis), is founded there and Thebes, after another warrior, is abandoned by producing a settler. Memphis becomes the capital and the new Thebes is refounded NW of the original spot, first of the ring 4 cities.

No wonder the terrain is crappy, but meetings are made very early. While exploring the isthmus, an american scout shows up in 3050 BC. Next turn, a chinese warrior is met. After Alphabet is complete, Pottery, Bronze Working and Warrior Code are obtained via trade. Next objective is Writing. Meanwhile, the warrior explores further north and in 2350 BC the Germans are met. Iron Working and a little bit later Mysticism are traded.

The refounded Thebes builds a granary, then start tossing settlers. The city becomes a nice 10 turns settler factory, enough to complete the ring in decent times. Memphis builds a settler for city 3, then a barracks, then starts producing units, for the most part warriors to be upgraded later.

The Americans beat us to Writing for a mere 2 turns, but the tech is bought for a small sum of quids and traded around very advantageously: we get the remaining contacts, a nice amount of money and an important slave from Arabia, paid 2 techs, a contact and some quids. Next objective is Literature at max. Meanwhile we develop the ring around Memphis. When Literature is done, in 1150 BC, we gain Map Making, Mathematics, Horse Riding and a complete world map.

Research is set to Polytheism, once again at max. The 1000 BC mark is reached with 6 towns none past size 3, but the terrain is very well developed despite we're using only a national worker and an arabic slave.

Map tradings are frantic. The goal is to locate the barb camps and kill them to get the necessary money to sustain 100% research, and possibly obtain a pair of elite archers. The contenders seem willing to help us in fast research. In 975 BC Code of Laws and Philosophy are known, in a way that allows us to buy one to trade for the another for a net expense of 150 quids.

Poly is complete in 730 BC and once again the AS are willing to assist us. The Celts have researched Currency, while Arabia and America know Construction. The 2 techs are both traded, but this time we have to pay all our money and total sum of 12 gpt to grab both of them. Luckily, China and Germany have a nice amount of quids and the amount spent is regained with interests.

Middle ages are reached in 730 BC, quite earlier than expected. Research is set to Engineering at bare minimum. The plan for the next 40 turns is to build the road north, upgrade the warriors, wage war to China and prepare the core cities for max research with libraries, once the planned harbors are complete. I hope that those pukes will research Monarchy and Republic before going for the medieval techs, since everyone is still in despotism. A switch to Monarchy will be performed as soon as the tech is learned. For Republic we need at least another luxury and a few more cities, or else we'll be killed by luxury spending and unit support.

Not a single war has been fought so far.

Meetings:

3050BC: America;
3000BC: China;
2350BC: Germany;
1790BC: Arabia, Celts (trade);

City log:

3900BC: Thebes;
2850BC: Memphis;
2350BC: Thebes abandoned;
2310BC: Thebes refounded;
1600BC: Elephantine;
1375BC: Alexandria;
1125BC: Pi-Ramesses;
1050BC: Giza;

Tech progress:

3900BC: Masonry, Ceremonial Burial (prerequisites);
2670BC: Alphabet (self); Pottery, Warrior Code (trade, America); Bronze (trade, China);
2350BC: Iron, Wheel (trade, Germany);
1950BC: Mysticism (trade, Germany);
1790BC: Writing (research + trade, America)
1150BC: Literature (self); Maps, Math (trade, Celts); Horse Riding (trade, China);
-975BC: Code of Laws (trade, Germany), Philosophy (trade, Arabia);
-730BC: Polytheism (self); Construction (trade, Arabia); Currency (trade, Celts);

Arabia and Celts are in the Medievals; i'm not gifting the others for the moment because i hope to carve out some money from the remaining tech, and possibly to trade them for Monarchy or Republic;

PTW Open Going for 20K

I send my Settler to the hill and have my worker road the bg. Upon seeing the fish I move my settler once more and then found Thebes on the coast. I decide to go for alphabet with the intention of researching hard for literature and then building the G Lib. My first few builds are warriors to go exploring to find a good spot for my second city which will be my 20K. (This will allow me to make my two favourite mistakes: (1) using the palace as a prebuild, not researching the tech in time and then settling for something crummy like a colusseum or (2) using the palace as a prebuild, forgetting and accidentally moving my capital).

Eventually I spot a likely place west of Thebes on the coast, one south of the cow. After a little roading and mining around Thebes my worker goes west to prepare the ground for Memphis. I settle so that I capture the cow and wines (after cultural expansion) within my city radius...unfortunately this means I miss out on the fish and whale and all that lovely gold. I try to atone for this error by smashing my head into the monitor a few times but unsurprisingly Memphis doesn't move.

I'm writing this from memory with no notes so the order may get a little, well, disorderly now. I guess I must have traded for some techs with the Chinese because I start the pyramids as a prebuild for the G Lib. Thebes churns out a couple more warriors, then a settler before it starts on the Colossus. I still have no idea why I chose to build the Colossus in my non-20K capital. I try to convince myself it was a clever way to boost research but eventually settle on the more likely explanation - stupidity.

In the first of two bits of fortuitious timing (the next is in the middle ages) I research literature a few turns before my prebuild for the G Lib is ready. I switch builds over and get the G Lib a few turns later. Despite getting to writing and literature first I have been reluctant to trade because I didn't want anyone beating me to the G Lib. So the turn after getting it I start my rapid tech catch up - 10 techs in one turn. Nice work if you can get it (and you can get it if you try).

Can't remember much else. I guess the rest of the ancient age was spent building my other available culture builds (temple, library) and an aqueduct so that I can compete in the next round of wonder builds. I end the ancient age more or less on tech parity (praise be to the G Lib!) and with around five cities.

My strategy (I know it's hard to believe but I do have one) is to concentrate on the culture heavy wonders - Sistine, Bach, Shakespeare's. The starting location while being shield poor, and lacking in sites to place cities is actually quite easily defended. I put some spears on the mountains and build a couple of forts to keep out the bad guys. Despite the defensive strong points I do yeild to a few demands from my not so friendly neighbours just because I have almost completely neglected to build a military.

What is becoming obvious is that I won't have much chance of breaking out from behind my forts. The other civs are busy claiming all that bountiful land while I spend my time settling in mountain passes. Now I like a snow covered cliff face as much as the next man but they're not much use when you want to grow quickly and actually build stuff. Luckily those industrious workers (an undervalued trait, I think) are extra keen and building a road won't take me forever.

Another error (they just keep coming) was that because I didn't build enough cities I didn't get round to building the forbidden palace until well after I should have done. In the end I made such a bad fist of things I'm not sure it was that critical but it's something I'll remember for next time.

Culture builds

G Lib 710 BC
Temple 610 BC
Colusseum 290 BC
Library 150 BC

Alright you can wake up now, I'm finished.

I have yet to post my Ancient Age log, but I have 2 questions that I have not been able to find answers to and hope someone here can help.:confused:

1. Can I capture a Great Wonder and trigger a Golden Age?

2. If I gift a far away city to an alley to prevent it from falling to enemy, and also to get couple of units back to the Capital, is this an exploit? I recall reading others doing this and did not see it under exploits. Somehow, I feel like it is a cheat.

Thank you in advance for any comments.

1. Can I capture a Great Wonder and trigger a Golden Age?
When you build a wonder the game checks to see if you have the wonders to trigger a Golden Age. Built and captured wonders are all counted in this check. So you can capture one or both of the wonders you need, but you still have to build a wonder in order to trigger the check and start the Golden Age.

.... and also to get couple of units back to the Capital, is this an exploit?There was a discussion about it some time ago. I don't think it was ever classed as an exploit.

Thank you AlanH. That is good information on GA trigger.
After reading your massage, I gifted the two cities and managed to beef up my eastern front. Have a great day.:thumbsup:

[QUOTE=Taxpayer'sMoney
G Lib 710 BC
Temple 610 BC
Colusseum 290 BC
Library 150 BC
QUOTE]
building the temple so late is the biggest mistake... if you built it early, it could start to generate culture much earlier... and it's so much more cost-effective even compared to shakespear's theater (and we're religiou)

Open (sorry tR1cKy :blush: ), goal is the Conquest Award

Like most others I started the worker on the BG, took the settler NE and saw the sorry state of things. Unlike all others so far, I decided to chance moving on N-W in hopes of something better while still getting that BG within the first 20. Also I was hoping to allow for a better RCP than what was evident and allow a second town to be built by the fish at RCP3. I was happy to find the wine but in general after moving I regretted doing so, just more hills, but when my scouting warrior found the cow I praised my luck. I could thus settle Memphis at RCP3, next to the cow, build a granary and rely on it for settlers and workers while all others went military. :evil:

I went for The Wheel first, but when I saw all the mountains I decided on swords instead (hoping there would be iron close by), thus saving my War Chariots for a later time when I had a better government for a GA. All towns except Memphis thus built a barracks and then warriors.

After TW I researched Myst and Poly, knowing I could get a monopoly. Poly came in 1525 BC and brought me all first tier techs, IW and HBR. I went on to research Maths, which brought me Writing and lots of cash for warrior->swrd upgrades. Iron was connected in 1150 BC, warriors upgraded and set to march on China. Unfortunately I had been a bit sloppy with the roading, so they had to hike through the mountains a bit, so no wars in the QSC period.

QSC stats:
6 towns, 16 pop
1 granary, 3 barracks
3 workers, 4 warriors, 2 archers, 13 swords
All 1st and 2nd tier techs plus HBR

War was declared on China in 925 BC, Beijing fell in 750 BC, peace in 530 BC for Construction and Monarchy, leving him with two towns. Revolt and form a Monarchy the turn after. I had been researching Republic for a long time then, a complete waste of time since I could never afford to switch to it. :rolleyes:
Arabia and America had formed a MA against me during the Chinese war, so after the peace with China I simply moved on towards the west. By this time I had War Chariots rolling in, and in 470 BC one of them triggered our GA. In 410 BC I finished Republic, traded for Currency and entered the MA. Sure didn't gift anyone up. :p

Future plans are to keep pumping out troops and roll over the world. During my GA I had 5 towns doing 10+ spt, that's 50 War Chariots over 20 turns... :cool:

EDIT: Here's a picture of my core in its prime:
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6700/gacore0wv.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gacore0wv.jpg)

Now how about a second spoiler thread? :)

[building the temple so late is the biggest mistake... if you built it early, it could start to generate culture much earlier... and it's so much more cost-effective even compared to shakespear's theater (and we're religiou)

Yep, I was surprised myself when I got that late in the game and realised I had no temple. I got so obsessed with building the G Lib (to keep up in tech) that I simply overlooked it. Who knows whether I would have had time to build a temple first and still get the G Lib?

Niklas, looking good. I'm rooting for you; you deserve that shield. The only mistake seems to be Republic but if you don't need to upgrade those chariots it won't matter. Excess cash for quick temples might make it tempting to go for domination instead? But it remains to be seen if war chariots and swordsmen are enough.

@Megalou: Thanks a lot! Feels nice to have some support. :)
I wouldn't go for domination, I have that award already. I'm hoping though that others will reason like you do and take the 'easier' way out to domination. I've completed and submitted the game already, so if we could only have a second spoiler thread :hammer: I'll tell you how it all went. ;)

I've completed and submitted the game already, so if we could only have a second spoiler thread :hammer: I'll tell you how it all went. ;)

:blush: And here was me thinking that I'd got up-to-date with results & spoilers. :ack:

2. If I gift a far away city to an alley to prevent it from falling to enemy, and also to get couple of units back to the Capital, is this an exploit? I recall reading others doing this and did not see it under exploits. Somehow, I feel like it is a cheat.

Thank you in advance for any comments.As alan said, its not an exploit if the city is to be destroyed and the units go back to your capital. What IS an exploit is as follows:

1.) Build a new palace in a city far from your capital (on a continent where you're fighting a war, for example). This capital can be buitl by either rushing it with a great leader, or having enough units in it that when you disband your main capital, the new capital moves here.

2.) Have a lot of units near your old capital that you want to move to your new capital. Put them in a small city (eg. even a new size-1 city built on the ruins of your old capital) and gift this city, transporting all the units to the new captial.

This is considered exploitive.