Well, due to my incompetence some unforseen problems my first modding exercise, the succession game over at SQ1: Google Earth (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=164058), I've decided to take the most rational action: namely, start another SG that is even crazier than the last. I'll be introducing a new variant, which I've dubbed the "schizophrenic" variant, in this game as well.

The inspiration for this game came from a bug feature I came across a while ago, that tupaclives has also discussed a bit over here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162390). Basically, what happens is that the game setup screen looks like this:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4508/sq2intro15qj.png

Yes, Shaka the Schizophrenic is back to haunt us again. Be very very afraid!

Nope, nothing modded in that picture. Nor have any sneaky changes been made to this foreign advisor screen:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5415/sq2intro22aw.png

Shaka's such a jerk he can't even resist declaring war on himself!

How is this possible, you might ask. As a matter of fact, it's as simple as editing these lines in the Civilization3.ini file in Vanilla:

Faction0=14
Faction1=14
Faction2=14
Faction3=14
Faction4=14
Faction5=14
Faction6=14
Faction7=14
Faction8=14
Faction9=14
Faction10=14
Faction11=14
Faction12=14
Faction13=14
Faction14=14
Faction15=14

Anyway, enough about the setup. I want to discuss variant rules, and yes, these will probably be very different from what you've seen before. I hereby present:

The Schizophrenic Variant

The Schizophrenic variant is where you play a civ against multiple identities of itself. I've chosen Zulu in this game, purely because of the alliteration of "Schizophrenic" and "Shaka." Even though it might seem nothing extraordinary, it actually lends itself to several variant rules, most of which are self-enforcing.

1. No military alliances or trade embargoes. How are you going to ally against an enemy when they all have the same name? On the other hand, Rights of Passage agreements and Mutual Protection Pacts are still possible.
2. No slave workers. How are you possibly going to make them slaves when captured workers are of the same nationality as you?
3. Culture flips like mad. Every city will have Zulu people who admire one particular Zulu culture, but whose?
4. Impi on Impi action. When was the last time you triggered two golden ages on the same turn?
5. Ahh, and here's the kicker. We want to cure our schizophrenia somehow. Desired victory condition: Diplomatic. Guess what? You can't vote for yourself, because you don't know which Shaka is you!

Still not convinced? Why not download this sample game to see for yourself what it is like:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ2_SAMPLE.SAV

Anyway, signups are now open, looking for 5-6 players who can keep an open mind. You'll probably want to leave almost everything you know about Civ III strategy at the door, because lots has changed here.

Current Roster:
Sima Qian
tupaclives
(open)
(open)
(open)
(???)

Settings:

Emperor
Standard
Pangaea
60% ocean
Warm
Wet
5 billion years
Raging barbarians

EDIT: This is now an OPEN SG, first person to grab it and post a reply gets the next turn set. Make sure to read the turn log and discussion so you don't get confused!!

Checking in! (always wanted to say that ;))

This is going to be another crazy, wacky game :crazyeye: from the master of madness, Sima.

Checking in! (always wanted to say that ;))

Welcome aboard. Wow that was a fast response.

Roster updated.

This is so insane I'm going to have to watch.

This will be interesting, will lurk though.:cool:

I might join if you tell us what the game settings are (dif. level is what I want to know the most, hint, hint.)

I see... people are demanding game settings. Well then.

My suggestions:

Standard
Pangaea
60% ocean
Warm
Wet
5 billion years
Raging barbarians

As for difficulty, I've been playing this myself with some level of success on emperor, so I'd like to play at least as high as that. Be ready to pop-rush culture and stay in despotism for longer than expected...

Regarding map size, I usually tend to avoid any larger than standard because my computer could easily choke and die (read: I'm too impatient to wait for the turns), but if the diplomatic victory condition would work better with more civs, I'm open to other suggestions. Please don't suggest HUGE though.

OMFG wow, you did it again, I'm crying in laughter ;)

Diplomatic :rotfl:

I can't play vanilla for very shady reasons about my civ installation, but would otherwise have loved to tag along.

I'd totally screw up the game with that high of a level, but I'll definitely lurk.

Well, I did play that sample game of mine to the modern age and build the UN. Here's a couple of screenshots:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3412/sq2intro37gc.png

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/245/sq2intro45ti.png

That turned out to be "Election inconclusive, no majority" :cry:

Still waiting for more players... am I *that* bad at advertising? Or did I scare people away?

I think people are slightly scared by the variant, that and the forums are gradually dieing, give it time we'll get the people.

Guys if you are worried about the difficulty, dont be. Sima is an outstanding player and I reguarly win games at deity.
If you don't think you are up to the task, dont worry, still sign up. If you want to pause during turnsets to ask for advice we'll both be more than happy to oblige, and playing at a difficulty higher than your regular one will help you develop into a better player.

This is one of the most insane variants I've ever seen!!!

If it's on Emperor or Deity, I'm taking the position of Lurker #6 (I'm not at Emperor level yet).

Sima I would be interested in playing because you are mad, simply mad.
I'm not sure I can fit it in with all that's on my plate though...could you add lurker turns?

Agree with Whomp's assesment. I couldn't fit in another regular slot, as fascinating as this one is, but a lurker turn would be fine. Of course, if the lurkers turn out to outnumber the regulars, you may have quite a random selection of players passing through here. And I do mean random. :crazyeye:

Lurker turns are fun, you should do it.:)

Okay, I don't think deity difficulty is going to work very well here. I just got royally creamed in a game on that level, my *second* city managed to flip to another civ in the industrial age along with the Theory of Evolution wonder. Talk about absurdity...

So for this game, I'd say emperor would probably be the difficulty level of choice. I *might* drop it down a notch to monarch, but I think at that level it will be too easy to out-culture the AI and it will actually end up very skewed in our favor.

After reading all the lurker comments, I think I will just make this an open SG, where anyone who claims the next turn set can play it. Just be on time with submitting the results (48 hours response time preferred), and allow at least two other people to play before playing another set. It will be very important that you read through the turn log to make sure you understand what is going on.

With that said, I think I should begin compiling a list of interested lurkers, as well as those who have signed up (in no particular order... sort of):

Sima Qian
tupaclives
Whomp
Ansar_the_King
SimpleMonkey
choxorn
cody_the_genius
Mirc

@choxorn, cody - Difficulty shouldn't be much to worry about, even the experienced players will be thrown a lot of curve balls here, so don't be surprised to... uh... be surprised :D
@Beorn - That's quite unfortunate, would've been great for you to join. Have you ever tried a fresh reinstall, or begging for tech support?

Anyway, discussion is now open for game settings, map size, difficulty, and anything else that might be relevant.

I'm on Cheiftian :( However, I might play a turnset if I want to amuse myself. :crazyeye: Besides, I searched the whole SG section of CFC and found 0 Cheiftain level games (zero on warlord as well) :(

I am comfortable at deity so I'd go with what you recommend Sima. Feel free to put me behind a lurker that may need the help too.

I have played exclusively on c3c for a year and a half so I may need a refresher on some of the differences again. Wonders can be rushed right? Research path is a distant memory.


@choxorn...it may be worthwhile posting in the general discussion threads when people ask advice. Maybe you could gather some of those people for a regent training SG. You can easily play above your normal when it's a SG and there will be plenty of trainers around.

I like the idea of open spots first grab :D

Currently dont want to commit to another SG full on but definitely will take a keen interest in this variant and would like to play some turns.

My feeling is lurkers who play turns and participate in discussion (even infrequently) can make this work, main risk is if lurker plays without getting up to speed on what is happening

At emporer level game this should cover a wide range of abilities

Agree with Andronicus that lurkers should keep up with the game fairly closely. I personally think it's going to be hilarious having all these lurkers trying to keep track of which Shaka is which. :lol: The only way to tell them apart is by color. I'm hoping Sima didn't play with that file too, leaving us with two purple Shakas.

Emperor is a fair starting difficulty that should let everyone have a decent go at it.

@choxorn -- Don't play Chieftain. Ever. Start at Warlord and work at figuring out how the game works and ask lots of questions.

@Whomp -- Still can't rush Wonders in vanilla, not by the usual means or disbanding or cash-rushing. But there's only one flavor of leader, the military great leader, and you can rush wonders with them. Kinda cool to be able to build the Pyramids just 'cuz you got lucky in an archer battle.

Thanks Monkey I knew there was some weird way to rush wonders.
though it may help to even the playing field for Shaka...or Shaka...or um...Shaka.

Reputation is going to have to stay pristine in this game so lurkers be very aware of trade routes.

@SimpleMonkey - If you checked the sample save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ2_SAMPLE.SAV) you'll see that Civ 3 resorts to picking the colors from the top of the list in the editor after it runs out of default/alternate colors. There won't be two Shaka's with colors that are very close, I think the closest will be blue vs. bright light blue.

@Whomp - Vanilla is missing a bunch of wonders and improvements, but yes, MGL's can rush Great Wonders. I've also been told that armies got some major boost in C3C, but I'm not fully aware of the difference there. Also a number of units got changed, marines and paratroopers in Vanilla are not as powerful, and there's no medieval infantry and guerrilla units.
I think this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104294) would be the one to consult for a more comprehensive list.

Like Whomp said, reputation is going to be very important. It might be convenient to keep track of the trade routes with a playing aid like MapStat or CivAssist, since it's kind of tedious to open a diplomacy screen with every leader to check current trades. The F2 screen won't help because for each resource, it will say "importing from Zululand" or "exporting to Zululand."

Another little tip: When another Shaka demands something from you or makes you an offer IBT, you can click the foreign advisor's head on the top right of the screen, and it will take you to the F4 screen. You can find out which Shaka you are talking to by clicking each other Shaka on that screen, and the only one that can respond is the one you are facing at the moment.

I'm still standing by my current game settings, if there are no objections I'll begin rolling some starts:

Emperor
Standard
Pangaea
60% ocean
Warm
Wet
5 billion years
Raging barbarians

@Whomp: thanx. I think I will do one, but I'm going to make history by doing the first-ever Chieftain SG!! :D I think I'll do one for Warlord afterwards to make history again!! :D :D

I'm a little confused, is this an open SG now or are we just playing with lurker turns as well?

@Tupac - Based on the response I've gotten so far, most have been lurkers who are interested in the game but don't want to fully commit to playing regularly, so I've decided to use a more informal approach. Open SG, no particular order of play enforced, just make sure to have some fun.

Ok, this is a very good idea.

@Whomp: thanx. I think I will do one, but I'm going to make history by doing the first-ever Chieftain SG!! :D I think I'll do one for Warlord afterwards to make history again!! :D :D
There were some chieftain SGs in 2002. And there's been several warlord SGs as well.

Alright, this sounds good. I'll play a few turnsets.

There were some chieftain SGs in 2002. And there's been several warlord SGs as well.
well, there were 12 I never managed to figure out, and a few that said "probably <insert name of level besides Cheiftain or Warlord>" instead of "definetly <insert name of level besides Cheiftain or Warlord>". Could you give me a link to a Cheiftain SG and a Warlord SG?

here's one. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168455)

It's yours :lol:

well, there were 12 I never managed to figure out, and a few that said "probably <insert name of level besides Cheiftain or Warlord>" instead of "definetly <insert name of level besides Cheiftain or Warlord>". Could you give me a link to a Cheiftain SG and a Warlord SG?
Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=29044) is the most recent chieftain one I saw, and this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96463) looks like the most recent warlord game that finished.

I wikll be lurking, and maybe pick up a save now and then.

@choxorn: I actually have been working on an idea for a Warlord SG, but I'm still fine tuning it and will probably start an SG some time later based on that concept. For now, you can just kind of... wait.

Judging by the responses so far, I think I'm ready to start. I'll fire up Civ 3 and get some turns done.

Please note:
20 turns per set up to industrial age, then 10 turns per set
Anyone can post a "got it" reply, but please allow at least two other people to play before you play again.
Try to play and submit your save within 48 hours.

here's one. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168455)

It's yours :lol:

Very funny. :rolleyes:

Here is the most recent chieftain one I saw, and this looks like the most recent warlord game that finished.
Okay, so I was wrong. Maybe I'll change my game to Regent if my group agrees.

That is, as soon as I get a group :rolleyes:(It's currently just me and Cody, and some higher level players are itching to join...)

@choxorn: I actually have been working on an idea for a Warlord SG, but I'm still fine tuning it and will probably start an SG some time later based on that concept. For now, you can just kind of... wait.

If I like the idea, I'll join. Whenever your ready, Insane Variant Designer.

4000 BC (Turn 0):

We start by a river and ivory. Remember, this is Vanilla, so please suppress any wet dreams about the Statue of Zeus.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/a0aad30003114777b05ca81a142bae49.PNG

Worker moves 1 west. Reveals a hut. Hmm. I'm feeling lucky today, so I send the scout to the hut. Out pops...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/2fc34a1746f145ffadb1a0bc10f5588c.PNG

... a warrior.

I see no compelling reason to move the settler, so I settle Schizobabwe.

Start building a scout.
Research set at minimum for alphabet.

3950 BC (Turn 1):

Scout discovers a cow to the northwest.
Warrior moves into the capital, will serve as our first MP.

3900 BC (Turn 2):

Scout discovers a hut.

3850 BC (Turn 3):

Scout pops the hut and disovers...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/18b3f9b414b14c4e87bd5408b63f2a9a.PNG

... ceremonial burial. Great, we can get some early temples, which are very helpful for culture.

3800 BC (Turn 4):

Scout moves...

3750 BC (Turn 5):

Schizobabwe: Scout -> Scout
Our first scout finds another hut in the west.

3700 BC (Turn 6):

Ahh, the joys of playing an expansionist civ:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/7d11ab14347143e788f9b56c8231bd55.PNG

3650 BC (Turn 7):

Scout moves...

3600 BC (Turn 8):

First contact with another civ. We meet the Yellow Zulu.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/4ba5a9a8e8de496da10e093ba4fb494e.PNG

They have absolutely nothing to trade, just 10 gold in their treasury. And they're annoyed with us already.

3550 BC (Turn 9):

Scout 1 discovers a yellow border.

3500 BC (Turn 10):

First cultural expansion. We can work two BG's.
Schizobabwe: Scout -> Warrior
Scout 3 reveals another cow northeast of us.
Scout 2 discovers a hut and wines.

3450 BC (Turn 11):

Scout 2 pops the hut. Did I mention something about how much expansionist civs rock huts?

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/1bd475d70cfb4869b40cb8759484f7c9.PNG

3400 BC (Turn 12):

Scout 3 discovers another hut north of us.

3350 BC (Turn 13):

Schizobabwe: Warrior -> Settler
Scout 3 pops... maps.

3300 BC (Turn 14):

Scout moves...

3250 BC (Turn 15):

Scout moves...

3200 BC (Turn 16):

Meet the Blue Zulu. They're ahead of us in tech by Bronze Working and The Wheel. Hmmm...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/75302a8a72ab4c4ea10832d4aaf4cacb.PNG

Sell Mysticism to Yellow Zulu for Bronze Working + 10 gold. Not ready to buy the Wheel yet.

3150 BC (Turn 17):

Scout moves...

3100 BC (Turn 18):

Scout moves...

3050 BC (Turn 19):

Scout 1 discovers a blue border. Too bad it's a civ we already have contact with.
Warrior finds a wheat tile on grassland that our scout missed. I think we have a 4-turn settler factory... but it'll require a temple to get set up.

3000 BC (Turn 20):

Scout 3 discovers another hut east of our capital.

Situational Analysis:

- Settler will be built next turn in Schizobabwe.
- Scout will pop a hut next turn. Best of luck to the next player with that.
- I'd suggest building at MOST one more settler in the capital. My recommendation for the next turn is to do Settler -> Temple, another Settler when Temple finishes, and then perhaps we could make a bid for the Pyramids. We also have Oracle to back that up in case an AI steals it from under our noses.
- Let me re-emphasize. Early temples and libraries will matter in this game. Culture flipping will go completely insane later on, and I want us to be ready for that.
- Would be nice to hook up wines, but it doesn't seem like the AI has any chance to beat us to it. Looks like we have one end of the continent to ourselves.
- I have a very crude dotmap here, it seems like we can get a settler factory or even two going because of the cows. Red dot is my proposed second city location (settler factory with temple, granary and stuff), pink dots are other alternatives once we have that in place. Of course, if you have better ideas, please do not hesitate to bring them up.
- This is not going to be Ring City Placement, and personally I think terrain considerations should trump RCP silliness any day.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/afb7136098bc4d8b8a4facace08f7814.PNG

Okay, the save is up for grabs. Try to keep the city names in theme, and good luck!

Ok got it.

haha got in first :p

Pre-flight

Well I can't really change much so I just decide to leave things as they are.

Here's my disagreements with Sima though.

1) I disagree with the dotmap on the principle of RCP. I know you say that yuo think its silly but at RCP 4 you can still get som very nice terrain, I can count 6 RCP4 city sites, 5 of them on rivers and none at ICS, but as Sima is leader I'm going to fall into line there. Still think that RCP is very important though, its a big advantage in Vanilla (so much so that they removed it from C3C).
2) I agree that Schizobabwe probably shouldn't be trying to build too many settlers but I just have no interest personally in AA wonders. Sure if you can get them then why not but honestly I'd rather have Schizobabwe pumping mil, with the occasional settler or worker. Once again though, I will fall into line with Sima. But I see no reason whatsoever to build the Oracle, even as a fall back (hence me not being keen on trying for the pyramids without the ability to switch the city to palace and save the prebuild for something else), I have never built it (even on chieften) and fail to see the advantage of it. I think its at best a luxury and at worst a total waste of time.

Thats about it really, I'm goign to go with what Sima suggested because he's team leader but I wanted to offer my opinion.

anyway...

IBT - settler finishes, set to temple.

Turn 1 (2950BC) - send settler toward red dot. scout pops the village and its deserted.

IBT - zzz

Turn 2 (2900BC) - nothing

IBT - zzz

Turn 3 (2850BC) - worker finishes mine, starts roading.

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 (2800BC) - meet the Aztec Green Zulu's (henceforth called AGZ). They have 2 cities and 60gp, we are up masonry and mysticism on them. No trades.

IBT - AGZ asks us to leave their land.

Turn 5 (2750BC)- worker finishes roading, heads SE toward BG on river.

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 (2710BC)- meet the Chinese Pink Zulu (henceforth known as CPZ), same deal as AGZ just less gold. Found Schizobane --> warrior. Pop a village and get 25gp

IBT - zzz

Turn 7 (2670BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 8 (2630BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 9 (2590BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 10 (2550BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 11 (2510BC) - Schizobane: Warrior --> Worker.

Trades are available

AGZ - Myst + Mas for IW + 22gp
CPZ - Myst + Mas for The Wheel + 10gp

IBT - zzz

Turn 12 2470BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 13 (2430BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 14 (2390BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 15 (2350BC) - Barbs are starting to show. We better have a damn good reason for building temples this early... Sima have you fiddled with culture settings or somethign? Because if not I really don't see why we went for a temple before the AD's... if at all.

IBt - zzz

Turn 16 (2310BC) - Schizobane: Worker --> Granary

IBT - defend against a Barb at Schizobabwe

Turn 17 (2270BC) - Schizobabwe: Temple --> Settler.

IBT - zzz

Turn 18 (2230BC) - one of our scouts is trapped.

IBT - sure enough we lose the scout

Turn 19 (2190BC) - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 20 (2150BC)- Alphabet comes in, set research to Maths @ max without deficit, obviously if they want the next player can change this as no beakers will be in it yet.

Post Turn - that temple slowed us down. We should have been building warriors instead, a granary possibly. I think that a granary in Schizobabwe is important for growth, I've changed my mind about it not building workers and so forth. We have 2 cities (Schizobabwe will build a settler in 2) and it will be a long time before Schizobane can be a settler factory. I still don't see why we even want a temple? Unless Sima has played with the culture settings (which you probably should tell us about if you have) then we really shouldn't be worried about culture as its only emperor. Even deity AI culture is nothing flash. I say we ditch the idea about the pyramids, I don't see it happening, or if it does it will be too late. What good is ending up with only 6 or so cities with a granary in each if we miss out on actually having cities. Of course its up to the next player, and I'm sure they'll make the right decision.

My suggestions

We've started with Sima's dotmap so lets stick to that, however I disagree strongly on the early wonders plan. I would suggest that after the current settler build Schizobabwe builds warrior --> granary --> worker --> settler and we don't worry about wonders. Schizobane needs to be developed and needs expansion anyway before it can be a settler factory. Its really hard keeping track of everyone diplomatically. We have iron to our east in range of one of our pink dots, I would suggest that as our next city site (the cow will be good for growth as well).

Can't think of much else so good luck to the next player. Go get 'em!

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9583/picture13wa.jpg

The save

Got it.
But before I play, I have a question: what's the final conclusion? Where will we settle next?

Based on what Tupac did, I suggest we call Yellow Zulu "Egypt Yellow Zulu" or EYZ, and Blue Zulu "Germany Blue Zulu" or GBZ.

Nooooo, it would be less confusing!!!

Playing right now.....

Whatever, if you mean my ideas. I guess we can just let Tupac use those, and we can call them Blue Zulu, Green Zulu, Yellow Zulu, and Pink Zulu. Unless you have a better idea, that is.

I have some problems uploading the file... Did anyone else experience this?

@Tupac - After reading your comments, I think that I was being a rather illogical with the early wonders plan. Yeah, the benefit from those (aside from culture) will actually be rather minimal. And even if I wanted to make the culture argument, it would probably be more worthwhile to build 2 new cities and stick a temple in each; that will add up to the 4 culture from pyramids.

I mainly got a false impression that we had very good terrain and might get away with a wonder or two, but from a strategic point of view that probably is not a good idea. Like you said, building some military would be better.

However, I am going to maintain that early culture is important. This is because after the AI starts building up culture, practically *ANY* of our cities except for the capital can flip because the AI is Zulu and our citizens are also Zulu. It's still too early to see any of that happen, but I guarantee there will be some nasty cultural surprises by the middle ages.

That's why I'm going to suggest Alphabet -> Writing -> Lit, because even if we cannot get the Great Library, early libs will also make a difference - probably an even greater one than early temples.

As for the RCP comment, I was mainly emphasizing that terrain considerations should take precedence over blindly following some kind of RCP pattern. That's why I suggested the red dot for our second city, even though that would not fall in well with a RCP plan. If you think you can build cities in good locations that are also RCP, please go ahead and do so.

It tells me: "No file selected" :(.

BTW Sima, you changed your user title! It suits you.

Mirc, are you using "Easy Upload" from the Quick Links or trying to add an attachment?

I'm using "Upload File" at the bottom of the page.

I managed to upload it.

Not much happened. I contacted Light Blue Zulus, I micromanaged my workers.....

I intentionally didn't move the Settler (with it's escort). It's up to the next player where he wants to settle. You can try Sima's variant, case when you just have to hit b and settle, because it is right on spot, or, I have another idea. I will make a dot map. It will include both the cattle and the iron, but better placed. Anyway Sima Qian's suggestion wasn't on a ring with the other city. I'll post the dot map (soon).

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Mirc_of_the_Schizo_1725_BC.SAV)

I would build instead of the pink dot of Sima (so instead of settling on the tile the warrior is now), I would settle on the pink and orange dot. The red dot is more a mistake, but also a possibility. I think you should settle on the orange dot. Also don't forget expanding south.

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4227/dotmap014wd.jpg

I made a much more detailed dot map (with ~27 cities, so a big part of all the cities we will get), but my father needs the computer right now and I can't post it.

Now I remember the benefits of RCP.

Call me weird but if we're going to need culture to our south shouldn't we build our next city on the plains river (also can capture the whale with expansion) and lock off the Zulus's's's's's from our north? This would allow us to focus on building the ring with comfort and allow us to head south to pop rush culture faster in those new cities.

:clap: Looks good so far! :goodjob:

What Zulus in our north?

Maybe I wasn't clear. My bad.
There aren't any Zulus to our north but if we settle a city SE then they'd have to cross our borders or take a boat to settle to our north. My point is our northern land can wait versus pushing south and creating early culture.

That's exactly what I would do! :thumbsup: (really, I thought of this too).

That's in fact why I made that blue dot at the southwest. Because the Yellow Zulus are much closer to us than the Green Zulus, we have to block their acces to our north before blocking the green ones, which are further to us.

I can't play this tonight will attempt a "got it" tomorrow night.

I don't have civ installed on this computer, but I checked the save with crprings and this is what I'm seeing: a fairly strong position at RCP5 and as opposed to RCP4. On the other hand, I think an argument can still be made for RCP4 because squeezing more cities into the map means more opportunites to build culture.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/0cf8ca04a2bc4d9fa6da31c21dd45e90.png

Counting Schizobane, we can get a total of 8 cities built at RCP5, 6 of them on rivers. The RCP9 in the pic is only for reference, I think we'll be better off going with RCP8 for second ring, or even abandoning the idea of RCP altogether by that point.

- The red dot can become settler factory #2 after cultural expansion, it can claim a deer and a cow.
- The green dot can claim whales and a river mouth, but I'm actually in favor of settling on the light blue dot first, to grab the gems while also blocking the AI from the south.
- The orange dot is in a pretty weird spot but I didn't want to crowd the other RCP5 cities so that's where I put it. It can still get some decent food and shields after cultural expansion, although it won't grow very large until railroads.
- The yellow dot can claim the cows after expansion phase, and use it to support the shield-producing tiles around it.
- The purple and dark blue dots are included just for completeness sake, I don't really have much to say about them.

Oh, and if you think I was kidding about the culture flips, MapStat has this to say about it:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0002/fc980c172d1e4c869477ddbe2ced3e3e.PNG

Not a single foreign border nearby, but the flip chance is already there.

Okay, now I understand why culture flips are going to go off the charts. I was kinda confused before. Sounds like rampant razing is going to have to go on the menu. Not that I have a problem with that. :devil:

My only other question is this: how is this varient handling city names? Is the AI generating 6 or 7 different cities all named Holbane? :confused:

About the city names: no, they will get first "New Hlobane" then "Hlobane 2", "Hlobane 3" and so on. It depends on who build first the city with that name. Then the others will add "New" or a number to the city name.

I have a question: are we going to stick to RCP? I agree to go with it anyway, but if we aren't, I made a dot map with a lot of good city locations. If we are going to RCP, nothing of it is good :D

@SimpleMonkey - Actually, I would argue the opposite. Rampant razing will hurt the AI attitudes toward us, which would make it harder for a UN win. Also, whenever we capture an AI city, I don't think we will even have resistance, since all the citizens will be Zulu nationality.

@Mirc - Depends on what people think of the most recent RCP dotmap I put up. I have yet to hear any comments on that yet...

Ok, I'll wait and see what the others think.

Ahh ... silly monkey. I forgot about that whole Diplomatic victory thing. Then it looks like this may be a culture battle galore. Shaka's secret weapons will be the early temple and library. This should be good.

Whose Shaka? ;)

@ Flip chance - wowweee!! I completely forgot about the citizens business... does that mean that going to war is going to be very bad for us as well as all the people will say 'stop the aggression against our mother country'?
However I still stick by that getting into a culture lead on emperor should be really easy, in Montupac's Tight Squeeze I have a culture lead on deity and in Tupac02-AWE, we were the culturally leaders more than half the game despite being AW.

With the citizens are they calculated as foreign citizens or what? I'm starting to confuse myself but here are 3 of my theories about it.

1) As Sima said, flipping will be crazy.
2) War will be hell, all our citizens will say 'stop the aggression'
3) Captured cities will have no resistors (when was the last time you saw a native citizen resisting in a captured city?)

My 2 cents - go with RCP5 as city sites are generally not too bad and the corruption bonus is sig, not nearly so important for 2nd ring, perhaps chose best sites there.
Really, this is going to be hilarious :lol:

I like the dotmap Sima however your variant is freaking me out. :D

Wow, gotta be lourking this. :D

Actually, I don't think I ever saw the "Stop the aggression" message when I played my sample game. It might not even happen at all.

But something else to be aware of: If you raze an enemy city, you do not get slaves. All workers will require upkeep, regardless of whether you got them from an AI or not.

Yes, but the workers will work faster, like normal ones, right?

Wow, there's so many things about civ3 that will make this game extremely confusing. I can't wait to see what happens.

I really think you could look at the "no razing because we're all Zulus" as a good thing and keep everyplace without resistance. Actually, you should try to avoid war altogether and concentrate on cultural assimilation. This doesn't hurt rep as much, and will aid the Diplomatic victory.

I wonder what the pop would look like for the Dom limit. If everyone is Zulu, will everyone have 100% pop toward the limit?

I wonder what the pop would look like for the Dom limit. If everyone is Zulu, will everyone have 100% pop toward the limit?

I don't really know, but I guess it wouldn't matter since we're going for Diplo ;)

If that were true, everyone would win as soon as 66% of the Land Area is covered, and Sima's sample game was in Modern Times. I doubt it works like that. BTW, SQ, did you leave culture victory on? If so, it will probably add to the fact that culture will be all-powerful in this game.

All victory conditions are on. Naturally, the goal is to be able to avoid cultural victory while still winning the UN vote.

As for population, each Zulu civ's population is kept under a separate record, just like culture.

Even so, this is going to be interesting.

It shouldn't be that hard to avoid cultural victory. So long as we don't go crazy ourselves the AI should be competent enough to stay within half of our culture. As for avoiding war I don't really see why its that necessary. Yes razing cities and being at warring with them makes us less popular but there are plenty of ways around that. I remember my first deity win was a diplo victory after I kept 3 cities I captured the entire game (hoovers, sistine's, and smith's cities) and razed everything else. Just DoW on my main rival in the UN and signed everyone against them the turn before the UN finished. Hey presto! diplo win. In this we can't sign them in against 1 AI but we can sign MPP's before the war and set it up so that we'll be attacked in our territory on the first interturn...

Whomp, were you going to post an "I got it"? Or is the save still up for grabs?

If not, I'll probably post one tonight- this is getting boring.

Sima I'm up in Chukchi's game tonight but will play this tomorrow. Would you like to let someone run in front of me or take this as a "got it"?

OK since you said you will be playing I'll take that as a "got it." Good luck!

OK this is truly a weird game.

So here it goes..
Pre-turn: notice we're working non commerce tiles but wait for the worker to finish. Move science from 80% to 100% at -2gpt. 21 to 17 turns. MM for growth in 2 vs. 3 in 'Bane. Look at Sima's map and move the warrior and settler to his northern dot near the iron.

1. 1700 Schizolieya established starts work on rax

2. 1675 Meet the red zulus (I think). Move the worker to the elephant. Good commerce tile. Lux to 20% math in 14. 'Bane stays on the forest to get the gran in 2.

3. 1650 Pop some maps

4. 1625 'Bane gran to settler

5. 1600 Zip

6. 1575 Cave to a zulu demand of 32g. (That is truly weird) I have no idea who I caved to. LOL! 'Babwe finishes gran but isn't big enough so I start archer. I can buy the last contact for ~25g. Wait. Purple/Green/Blue and Fuchia get poly and writing.

7.-9. 1550 to 1500 Zip

Summary
In hindsight, I may have been better off changing the grans after the cities grew but they are now done. Time to expand. I didn't want to build Impi yet since a despotic GA would be uncool and schizo. We still have one zulu to meet. One other zulu picked up writing. BTW how do I get mapstat to work for PTW?

Here's a picture. Notice there's a horse in the barb camp.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1481/sima9jc.jpg

6. 1575 Cave to a zulu demand of 32g. (That is truly weird) I have no idea who I caved to. LOL!


You can tell who it is by looking at the text the AI "talks" with. It will be the color of the civ they are, e.g., Yellow Zulus will have yellow text, Blue Zulus will have Blue text, etc.


BTW how do I get mapstat to work for PTW?


Isn't this vanilla version? BTW where can I get mapstat?

P.S. Might take this turnset if someone posts a dotmap and tells me where I can upload my screenies/saves.

Indeed it is.

Whomp there are 2 problems with you're save, the first is minor: we are meant to play 20 turns each until the Industrial Age.

The 2nd problem is a bit bigger... this is meant to be a Vanilla game, not PTW.
If we continue with PTW that rules me out, and significantly, it also rules Sima out of playing anymore.

So what do we do now?
Sima?

At least you haven't seen any radar towers ... yet. :rotfl:

Yeah, I can't load up the save in my Vanilla civ either. Whomp, hope you don't mind replaying those turns and submitting a new save, preferable with all 20 turns played.

Sorry everyone. Like I said I haven't played vanilla in a gazillion years. :blush:
I'll try again tomorrow.

At least you haven't seen any radar towers ... yet. :rotfl:

:lol: :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl:

There were some chieftain SGs in 2002. And there's been several warlord SGs as well.

I figured out why I couldn't find any- it doesn't show any threads that's last post was more than a year ago. :crazyeye:

I figured out why I couldn't find any- it doesn't show any threads that's last post was more than a year ago. :crazyeye:
You can see older threads if you go to your "UserCP" Options and change the cut-off date to "see all threads". :)

Ok still a weird variant and I went deep into the annals of civ complete and found III!! Hah funny Monkey...and I did see towers in the last round!
My "honey do's" are done so off I go.

Pre-turn: Too many shields to burn by switching out of granaries. Crank up science to 100%. Move the warrior and settler to Sima's dot.

1700 Schizolieya is established starts rax. A barb camp is revealed. Math in 14

1675 'Bane needs some happy pills so lux to 20%.

IT :hmm: Explain to me how we know who this is?

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2425/demand0lm.jpg

Oh my barbs attacks our warrior in 'Lieya. We win. See a zulu scout attacked. :crazyeye:
1650 It was purple who made the demand. Get some maps. Meet Red of the Zulus.

1625 'Bane finishes gran and starts a settler. 'Bane gets a MP. (different than my first time since we have barbs in the area) Science back to 100%. Switch 'Lieya to impi since another barb horse is coming.

IT horse hits and we win again. Another barbie horse appears next to our scout.

1600 mm a bit for commerce

IT 'Babwe gran to rax
1575 Pink/blue/fuchia/green get writing and poly. Red has writing only. We can get it for all our gold. Nah..
Our scout is up a tree with nowhere to go.

IT Bye Scout.
1550Another barb horse. Cripes. I wonder if my ini should've been changed.

IT our warrior wins again.
1525

1500 'Bane grows

1475 'Babwe rax to archer. Still not enough growth. Dangit. Yellow and pink get math. They have writing and poly already. We were one turn away. Ok well let see....
How about this....
Buy math from Yellow for 11g.
Trade math and 57g to Blue for poly
Trade poly for writing and 5g to Red.
Trade math to Green for 62g and contact. Meet Orange who wasn't worth the contact since he's down math, poly and writing.
Not horrible since we get contact with Orange, math, poly and writing for 1 (net) gold piece.

1450 'Bane Settler is trained and starts rax.

IT The Zulus establish an embassy. :crazyeye:
1425 It was Purple. Another barb horse

IT Redlines our warrior in 'Lieya but take the horse
1400Red/Purple/Blue get Philo. Schizomania! is established between the two deer. Starts a rax. Lieya trains a impi and i send out the warrior to dispatch the camp.

I1375 'Babwe archer trained to a settler. Whack a barb. Just in time since another horse appears.
Greenies pick up philo.
1350 'Bane rax to settler. Whack a barb horse, promote (finally) and get 25g

1300 Spy a camp and a barb to our NW.

IT barb warrior hits our impi. Uh no Mr. Barbie.

1250 'Babwe settler to archer

1225 'Bane settler to archer and Mania! rax to worker Everyone is long philo plus fuchia/red/blue and green get map making.

Summary
Truly whack! Love it. Ok well I'm not used to settling away from rivers, not settling resources (horses will be outside of borders) and having a settler factory. 'Bane has the potential now since I started watering one of the deer and it has a cow. Thanks to Sima for having me and letting me play a whacky variant.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2084/empire7ax.jpg

Got it. Thanks Whomp, save loaded up fine this time. Great to see it all went smoothly for you.

Now before I play, I'd like to ask for some opinions as to what to do. Despite how much I want to build up some more culture at this point, I have to admit that we are a bit skimpy on the military side. So I'll probably be adding some more archers during my turn set.

On the other hand, I want to know if there is any interest in setting up a prebuild for the GLib. I think that its usefulness is diminished at emperor level, especially if you're a skillful trader (which I am not), but the 6 culture points per turn is quite a lot and will add up in the long run. I'm actually afraid that if we do not get the GLib, the AI that does get it will earn a ton of culture and start flipping our cities away.

As it stands, there are currently no wonders built and every AI is working on Oracle, except for the red Zulu who are building Pyramids. They are all being built in the capital, and none of those are coastal, so they can't cascade it to Colossus or GLHouse, but I bet the Oracle will complete first, then a cascade to Pyramids will happen.

I want to turn Schizomania into a mil factory and let Schizobane and Schizolieya steal high-food tiles from it for a while to pump settlers and workers. Barracks will be important at some point but as it stands now, I prefer having one or two cities focus on military while the rest work on growth.

Oh, and I'm also very tempted to do some pop rushing for the culture. If I do... well... the next player on the roster is going to be quite mad at me for the unhappiness...

Explain to me how we know who this is? It was purple who made the demand.

The text color, which indicates blue zulus, not Purple- the only zulus we know of are Light Blue, Blue, Yellow, Green, Pink, Orange, and Red, and since this is a standard size map, those are the only AI's.

Like I said earlier, I might take this set if someone tells me where I can get MapStat and Where I can upload my Screenies/Saves.

EDIT: Sima posted his "got it" while I was posting, so I can't take this one, but I might play next set if someone answers my questions.

I am not a fan of a Glib build. Culture with temples and libs will be powerful in their own right...plus they double.

Cities definitely need to get bigger. I think 'Bane is ready to become a settler pump and the capital looks like it can go archer/settler. With our eastern settler the north is our so pressuring further south would make sense. We can also consider pumping out a bunch of warriors for sword upgrades once we hook up the iron. I must say I have a need for speed so having horses with impis could be awesome.

Choxorn--I must be color blind because I don't see where it's blue that asked for tribute (but it was blue now that you mention it). :lol:

Here's where you can dl mapstat. The program runs nicely behind the game and you can toggle to get all the information you need although it automatically popped up with this version of civ3. :crazyeye: Everything you need trades, flips, happiness etc. are all there in one quick view.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902

To upload files you can do it from either "go advanced", manage attachements and upload it from there or you can "upload" it from the "upload file" at the bottom of this page. Right next to where it says

Forum Rules - Chat Room - Upload File - Contact Us - Civilization Fanatics' Center - Archive - Top

You can also upload pictures from there. I use "imageshack" which host pictures.

@Whomp: My way of figuring out the AI that demanded stuff from us: click the foreign advisor icon in the top right corner, and that will take you to the F4 diplomacy screen. Then try to talk with all the AI, the only one that responds will be the one making the demand. (To be honest, I have no idea what choxorn is talking about here, a screenshot would be helpful.)

I'm more of a fan of capturing the GLib than building it, but yeah I was a bit worried about the culture problem here, as well as the reduced amount of war because of the UN vote. Although I would agree, 2x libs would match the GLib in culture and take less time to build.

If the GLib build is still on the table, I would delay the research on lit so that the AI can hopefully finish the wonder cascade and build pyramids before they demand the tech from us. But if nobody minds the AI building GLib, then I will probably trade lit away, although not immediately after researching it.

Colossus and GLHouse are going to be relatively useless. If we don't go for GLib, then I'm pretty sure we'll skip all the ancient age wonders.

Whomp: thanx, but where do I download the program? :blush:
SQ: 1.the GL might come in handy, and if the AI's are busy not building it, we might be able to get it.
2. Look at Whomp's screenie. As you can see, the text the Blue Zulu Shaka is talking in is Blue. That's what I mean. Now do you get it? ;)

2. Look at Whomp's screenie. As you can see, the text the Blue Zulu Shaka is talking in is Blue. That's what I mean. Now do you get it? ;)

I don't think that's true for all cases. If I talk with the yellow Shaka, the text is most definitely not yellow.

I don't think we need the GLib. Yes the 6cpt would be very handy but at 400 shields we could build 5 libs in different cities, thats 15cpt and that will double (total of 30cpt v 12 cpt from the Glib). Yes you could still build 5 libs as well as the Glib, but I've never thought that culture is that big of a deal. Certainly nothing that can't be handled with a little :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

OTOH given that this is an open SG might make trades less fluent (as some people mightn't have been checking all the comments as for the team goals) and the Glib would help with that.

Still don't really like it, the last game I even tried to go for it was SQ01, and we didn't get it and it didnt matter. Before that the last time I went for it would have been back in my regent or monarch days nearly a year ago. The culture could be useful but I personally feel there are much, much better uses for 400 shields.

Nonetheless I am confident Sima will make the correct decision.

If the 400 shields are invested in settlers those new cities can each build temple and lib

I think it's easy to see what civ is demanding. If they don't declare war, click "We would like to propose a deal", then check what cities they have. There can't be 2 cities with the same name on the map. Then check what color that cities are. If they declare, the foreign advisor will tell you what civ you are at war with, and you will have to do find out by eliminating variants

@Mirc: I think the point was to find out which civ they are before they can declare war...

I don't think that's true for all cases. If I talk with the yellow Shaka, the text is most definitely not yellow.

Are you sure you were talking to yellow Shaka? It doesn't tell you which shaka is which. :D I'll show you a few screenies soon.

@Mirc: I think the point was to find out which civ they are before they can declare war...
:hammer2: Probably...

I agree with Tupa and Andronicus. The Glib is a big commitment when pop rushing in the 2nd ring also has the capability to pop rush. As Andronicus stated a city that builds the Glib could instead build 1 temple, 1 lib and 9 settlers/military. Those 9 settlers could then pop rush temples and libs.

Is everyone familiar with how short rushing works? I think this will be very important in the 2nd and 3rd rings.

As far as the demand goes it really doesn't matter who made it since I would've caved regardless. 32g is not worth taking the risk of incursion and setting off a GA for someone while we're in the expansion phase. Demanding a tech is something I'll fight for but not gold in the early game.

I'm quite sure that the color of the text is not the color of the civ...
Trading to Cleopatra would be almost invisible.

Okay, here's what I mean. And Yes, the Zulus are Yellow in this screenie. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Zulu.GIF

The text isn't exactly the same color as its civ, but close. As you can see, the text is almost yellow. Now does everybody get what I mean?

1225 BC (Turn 0):

Change Schizobabwe to Pyramids (actually a prebuild for library)
Change Schizomania to warrior
MM Schizomania and Schizlieya a little
Drop research on lit to 70%, want to delay it enough so that prebuild for library gets to just under 80 shields when it comes in

Buy Map Making from Green Zulu for WM + 67g.
Sell Map Making to Pink Zulu for Philosophy + TM + 67g.

Sell WM all over the place and get lots of maps and gold that way. I end the turn with MM and Phil techs and a net gain of 148g from trading.

Hit enter.

1200 BC (Turn 1):

Founded Schizowhaleport on the river mouth. Starts on warrior.

IBT:

Scout watches a red archer attack Amatikulu, a aqua-blue Zulu city. The archer doesn't die so I assume it must have won.
Mpondo (pink Zulu) builds Oracle, big cascade to Pyramids.

1175 BC (Turn 2):

Schizolieya: Barracks -> Warrior
Founded Schizodeathpit on forest, surrounded by mountains. Starts on warrior.

IBT:

Scout watches red archer die attacking Amatikulu.
Red scout shows up near Schizodeathpit.

1150 BC (Turn 3):

Schizobane: Archer -> Settler
Drop research to 50%, still 3 turns to lit.

IBT:

Yellow Shaka demands TM + 25g, I let him have it.

1125 BC (Turn 4):

Schizolieya: Warrior -> Temple
I send the warrior toward Schizodeathpit, switch Schizodeathpit to temple.
Sell WM to Yellow Shaka for WM + 25g, and we get our lost gold back. :lol:
Repeat with Orange Shaka for another 25g.

1100 BC (Turn 5):

Worker stuff...

IBT:

Aqua Shaka demands TM + 38g, I let him have it.

1075 BC (Turn 6):

Schizowhaleport: Warrior -> Barracks
Raise lux to 10% to prevent a riot in Schizobane, our 4-turn settler factory.

1050 BC (Turn 7):

Research on Literature completed. Currency is up next. I raise science to 80%, it will be due in 20 turns.
Schizobabwe: Pyramids switched to Library
Schizodeathpit: Temple switched to Library
Schizolieya: Temple switched to Library

1025 BC (Turn 8):

Schizowhaleport: Barracks switched to Library. Whatever...

1000 BC (Turn 9):

Schizobane: Settler -> Settler
Schizomania: Warrior -> Warrior

IBT:

Ulundi (Aqua Zulu) builds Pyramids. Bwwwahahahaha, no cascade.
Barbs approach Schizolieya.

975 BC (Turn 10):

Nothing interesting.

950 BC (Turn 11):

Schizobabwe: Library -> Settler
Drop lux to 0.

925 BC (Turn 12):

Founded Schizoponyland, bringing horses into our borders. Starts on warrior.
Buy a worker from Aqua Zulu for 25g.
Buy a worker from red Zulu for 24g.
(These are not slaves, but I still think we lack workers.)
Boost lux back to 10% to prevent a riot.

900 BC (Turn 13):

Schizomania: Warrior -> Warrior

IBT:

We get or first culture flip. Wow, totally unexpected - especially from a city with culture, and so close to the AI capital.

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9162/schizoflip900bc0qs.png

875 BC (Turn 14):

Where the heck is this?

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3374/schizoflip875bc9tk.png

I decide to starve New Ulundi (the flipped city), so that we don't get a clown there.

Man I suck. I managed to screw up the 4-turn settler factory, Schizobane is now size 3.
Schizobane: Settler -> Library

850 BC (Turn 16):

Schizobabwe: Settler -> Worker

IBT:

Killed the barb at Schizolieya, but...

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1551/schizobarbs850bc9yw.png

:eek: :eek: :eek:

850 BC (Turn 17):

Schizobabwe: Worker switched to Impi.

825 BC (Turn 18):

Warriors moved out of Schizobabwe toward Schizolieya.

IBT:

This is bad....

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/8789/schizobarbs800bc3cp.png

800 BC (Turn 19):

Schizomania: Warrior -> Warrior
Units moved onto mountain, in hopes the barbs will suicide there.

IBT:

Our 3 heroic units on the mountain kill 14 barbs before finally getting wiped out.
9 horsemen still manage to move onto that mountain.

775 BC (Turn 20):

Schizobabwe: Impi -> Worker
Schizolieya: Library -> Impi
Impi moved to Schizolieya from Schizobabwe.
Founded Schizodiamond by the gems, starts on barracks.

I take a deep breath, and...

IBT:

The impi dies defending Schizolieya, but 8 barbs are killed. 2 left, since another one has moved in.

Actually, I wasn't supposed to end that turn, but I wanted to find out what happens to the barbs. The save I'm uploading will be at the beginning of the turn, 750 BC. Please play through it!

Current Situation and Other Suggestions

- Still 2 more barbs left outside Schizolieya. 3 warriors defending the city. It's your call whether or not to attack, I'd rather attack than defend with those warriors though.
- Settler is hiding in Schizolieya. I would not move him out without an escort, but I do want him to settle by the wines.
- Workers on their way to hook up the gems.
- Schizobabwe in unhappy and will revolt if you do not create a specialist. I recommend changing one citizen to a taxman. Worker will be built next turn and that will solve the unhappiness problem, but we need military in the capital - and very soon too.
- Currency due in 1 turn, we are at 80% research spending 40gpt on science. Yellow Shaka will sell us currency for WM + 26g, so I suggest buying it from him, then trade around, see if we can pick up code of laws and construction, and get started on researching republic.
- Scout is currently just wandering aimlessly. If you can, bring it to a corrupt city and disband it for 2 shields, but I don't think those can do any good in New Ulundi, so probably send him over to Schizoponyland.

Where to go from here?

New dotmap:

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4373/schizodotmap750bc8ju.png

Those my choices for city locations, but feel free to suggest your own ideas.
I think we need to prioritize certain locations over others, but I'm not quite sure exactly how...

- Purple dot: Grab 2 wines, good spot for pop-rushing culture if we can get those wines irrigated... somehow...
- Red dot: We can deny the wines to the Yellow Zulu that way, and this is also a very good location for pop-rushing. However, the settler isn't really in position for that right now. It will take at least 5 turns longer for the settler to make it to the red dot compared with the purple dot, but the land around the purple dot is filled with barbs and I'm a bit scared of that. I think we can give this serious consideration as an alternative to wandering into barb-land at the purple dot.
- Blue dots: These are the two remaining RCP5 locations, we're going to have to fill in these sooner or later. The earlier the better, but the AI won't be going for those locations, so you may want to consider the more hotly-contested sites instead.
- Orange dot: Can we beat the AI to the spices? Worth a try if you ask me, but don't count on it.
- Green dot: An extra ivory can't hurt, but this is a rather low priority.

The Save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Schizophrenic_Shaka,_750_BC.zip

Er... whoooops.... actually I skipped turn Turn #15 there, so I'm actually missing a turn. I'll finish it off later tonight then...

No... Don't finish it... You played an extra turn. The save would be at the beginning of your turn twenty.
Got it. :)

What do the numbers on the dotmap mean?

:yeah:
Randomness! Fun!!!! :lol:

What do the numbers on the dotmap mean?
Distance from the capital. I would be playing right now, but my Mom had to take the computer just after I posted my got it.

Okay, turn's finished.

The Good:
-Built two new cities, on the Purple dot and the LB dot in Sima's dotmap

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4373/schizodotmap750bc8ju.png

-Got into Middle Ages
-We are now in Monarchy (no one would sell me Republic)
-We have Iron, Horses, and Gems :dance:
-Red Zulu declared War, but I signed a Peace Treaty later and made a profit (we never fought)

The Bad:
-I lost Schizobane to culture Flip
-We don't have a very big military
-I forgot to take screenies, except for a few at the end of the turn.

And, the Turns:

Pre-Turn (750 BC):
-Turn unhappy citizen in 'Babwe into entertainer.
-Send Elite Warrior in 'Lieya to fight barb horse- the horse beats him without a scratch, WTF? :mad: (0-1)
-Send Reg warrior to avenge Elite one. The Warrior redlines, but wins. (1-1)
-Send vet warrior against other barb horse, beats the Horse and promotes to elite. (2-1)
-I check F7 screen. Why didn't SQ say Oracle and Pyramids have been built?
-Oh, and 3 AI are building HG, 3 are building GW.
-Trades:
Yellow Shaka: Trade TM and 26 gold for Currency
Pink Shaka: Trade Currency for CoL
Red Shaka: Trade Currency and Lit for construction
Red has a scout in our territory, I tell it to leave. He does during the IBT.
-Start research on Monarchy, set science to 70% to get rid of deficit, Monarchy due in 16.
-Send Workers to 'Lieya to connect Iron.
-Use other workers to start road to gems.
-oops, forgot to send scout to Ponyland, he automoves.

IBT:
-Dark Blue Zulu want to trade TM for TM. I decide no.
-Barb Horse attacks Warrior outside 'Lieya, the Warrior is left with 2hp, but he won. (3-1)
-'Babwe: worker->Impi

Turn 1 (730 BC):
-Move units around, send scout to Ponyland.

IBT:
-'Lieya's culture borders expand.
-'Mania! Warrior->Walls

Turn 2 (710 BC):
zzz

IBT:

-'Bane goes into disorder
-'Lieya: Impi->Walls
-Ponyland: Warrior->Barracks

Turn 3 (690 BC):
-Don't want to increase lux, so I give Bane an entertainer and MM it a little.
-Send Impi, Warrior, and settler out of 'Lieya. Warrior/Settler heading for Purple dot, Impi looking for barbs.

IBT:
-Babwe: Impi->Impi
-Order restored in Bane
-Cutural Advisor gives me first wonder message, "Zulu are building GW", the only one I don't ignore.

Turn 4 (670 BC):
-Warrior and Settler are on Purple dot
-Impi finds Barb camp

IBT:
-Barb Horse attacks Impi, Impi wins
-Iron road finishes
-Lieya: walls-> temple

Turn 5 (650 BC):
-Send workers to connect Horses
-Upgrade 4 Warriors to Swords for 160 gold
-Found Schizograpes -> worker
-Impi attacks barb Warrior, Impi retreats, Warrior doesn't get a scratch, WTF? :mad:

IBT:
-Barb Horse attacks Impi, Horse wins (4-2)
-Mania!: walls->temple

Turn 6 (630 BC):
-Switch bane to settler to temporarily resume settler factory

IBT:
-Barb Horse attacks warrior in grapes, he avenges the Impi (5-2)
-Babwe: Impi->Walls
-Bane: Settler->Settler
-Lieya goes into disorder

Turn 7 (610 BC):
-Increase lux to 20%
-Order Workers to Clear jungle where gems are
-Send Bane settler and Babwe Impi to LB dot

IBT:
-Orange Zulu demand Lit, I cave- for now.
-Red Zulu demand TM and 22 gold, I say no, they declare war.

Turn 8 (590 BC):
-Decrease science to 60%. It only reduces the time until Monarchy comes in by one turn, and gets rid of the deficit we run.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 9 (570 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-Babwe: Walls->Impi
-Diamond: Barracks->Walls

Turn 10 (550 BC):
- Monarchy comes in 1 turn, so I decrease science to 50%, Monarchy still in 1 turn.
-Vet Sword attacks barb Warrior in camp, sword wins, disperses the camp and we get 25 gold. (6-2)

IBT:
-Barb Horse approaches ponyland
-Barb Warrior attacks Warrior in ponyland, We win (7-2)
-Monarchy comes in, revolt, 4 turn anarchy :)
-several cities go into disorder as a result, so I give them specialists for remainder of anarchy.

Turn 11 (530 BC):
-Scout reaches ponyland- disband him for two shields.

IBT:
-Barb Horse defeats warrior in ponyland, he kills a citizen (7-3).

Turn 12 (510 BC):
-Found Schizojungle on LB dot

IBT:
zzz

Turn 13 (490 BC):
zzz

IBT:
:sleep:

Turn 14 (470 BC):
:coffee:

IBT:
-Bane culture flips to LB Zulu :mad:
-Revolution ends: switch to Monarchy

Turn 15 (450 BC):
-60% science, Feudalism in 30 turns
-check how other leaders do in tech via diplomacy-
Only zulu that has a tech we don't have is Green (they have Republic, but won't trade it to us).
-Several Zulus don't have Lit

IBT:
zzz

Turn 16 (430 BC):
zzz

IBT:
Babwe: Impi->Settler

Turn 17 (410 BC):
-Hurry Barracks in ponyland for 36 gold
-Send Babwe Impi to Dark Blue dot
-gems are connected :D

IBT:
-Lieya is attacked by Barbs, Sword beats Warrior but loses to Horse, (8-4)
the Horse destroys the city walls.
-Deathpit: Library->Barracks
-Ponyland: Barracks->Impi

Turn 18 (390 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-Lieya: Temple->Impi
-Diamond: Walls->Temple

Turn 19 (370 BC):
-Make peace with red Zulu for WM and 1 gold
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Peace,_Man!.JPG
-Tell LB Zulu to get their settler out. They say sure. It starts to leave.

IBT:
Babwe: Settler->Impi
New Ulundi: Archer->Barracks
Grapes: Worker->Barracks

Turn 20 (350 BC):
-Rename New Ulundi to Schizolundi (like that name more)

F7 screen:
Now I'll tell you what the foreign advisor told me but I didn't listen
-Pink Zulu have built HG
-5 AI's are building GL, 3 are building GW.
-LB Zulu are building Sun Tzu's.

Diplomacy:
No one will trade with us, but I discover this about the tech race:
DB Zulu and Pink Zulu are at tech parity with us.
Green, Red, Orange, Yellow Zulus have Republic.
LB Zulu has Feudalism but doesn't have Literature.


Current situation:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/turnend.JPG

If you cna read those numbers, I put numbers on the workers so I could call them "crews."
The Dark Blue dot is where I want the settler to go.

Worker Crews:
Worker Crew 1 (1 worker): Connecting Schizograpes to rest of our country. After he's finished, connect those wines.

Worker Crew 2 (3 workers): After they're finished roading that square to connect the DB dot, find something for them to do. They can help connect the wines, build roads, or clear jungle down by 'Jungle and 'Diamond.

Worker Crew 3 (3 workers): After they finish clearing jungle, build roads to Schizojungle.

And that's pretty much it. Hope I didn't screw up some plan you guys had. :crazyeye: And here's the Save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Schizophrenic_Shaka,_350_BC.SAV)

Choxorn you did a nice job for a chieftain player. I haven't been able to check the save yet but I will take a look later. A few things from log though...
-Turn unhappy citizen in 'Babwe into entertainer.
-Don't want to increase lux, so I give Bane an entertainer and MM it a little. These two cities are in the core. They should never have entertainers. Move the lux slider always for the important cities.


-'Lieya: Impi->Walls
-Lieya: walls-> temple
-Mania!: walls->temple
-Diamond: Walls->Temple

I asked if anyone needed help with pop rushing. My guess is there was an opportunity to pop rush the temple before the walls finished. My view is walls are unnecessary since we intend to grow our cities beyond pop 6.


Yellow Shaka: Trade TM and 26 gold for Currency
Pink Shaka: Trade Currency for CoL
Red Shaka: Trade Currency and Lit for construction
Red has a scout in our territory, I tell it to leave. He does during the IBT.
Looks good. Did you move the science slider to 0% before you did these trades?

-Start research on Monarchy, set science to 70% to get rid of deficit, Monarchy due in 16 Why monarchy? Why not republic like we discussed? :confused:


-Orange Zulu demand Lit, I cave- for now.
-Red Zulu demand TM and 22 gold, I say no, they declare war.
Why would you cave to a tech demand but not on a gold demand? Huge difference and it would've likely ended in the same scenario with Orange as you had with Red.

Ahh, the joy of unexpected surprises. Just have to hope Schizobane flips back to us...

Anyway, in response to choxorn:

Overall nothing looks too bad, except I really do not want us to be in monarchy at this point. In fact, I'd even prefer staying in despotism longer rather than monarchy. With monarchy we lose the ability to pop rush and we have lower unit support because most of our cities are still size 6 and under. The only benefits of monarchy would be:
- No tile penalty. Not really a big factor, since most of our production is coming from mined BG's.
- 3 MP's per city. But it doesn't look like you're taking advantage of that, so this is a non-issue as well.
- Slightly less corruption, but I don't think that's enough to justify a switch. You were fortunate that anarchy was only 4 turns.

I'm curious why you self-researched monarchy when we could have bought it from an AI. I think I mentioned in my last comments that I would've liked to see republic researched next, but it's true that I never got to see the tech situation after the trade so maybe it would have taken too long to research it.

I think you could have traded currency + gold for construction instead of currency + lit. If I ever have a monopoly tech, I would usually try to keep it for as long as possible, unless I can trade it to multiple AI's on the same turn and get a decent payment from each of them. We could probably have traded lit + gold for monarchy too.

Libraries should take priority over temples. Temples are going to be useless for the most part other than culture. Any unhappiness problems are easily solved with the luxury slider.

Also kind of confused as to why you caved to the lit demand but not the map + gold demand, did you accidentally click the wrong button? I'm usually against reloading, but if it really was an accident I wouldn't really mind if you redid that IBt that time.

Keep in mind that we are going for diplomatic victory, so avoid ticking off the other AI as much as possible. Obviously there will be certain cases where they make ridiculous demands that have to be refused, but try to avoid doing things that worsen the AI attitude, like asking their units to leave (especially non-military, who cares if they have a scout in our borders).

Workers: clearing jungle should not be done unless there are no other tiles that a particular city can use. Clearing the gems isn't so bad, since now there's a high-commerce tile to work, but there are other, more important tasks for the worker to do at this point.

EDIT: Cross-post with Whomp! Heh, seems like I'm repeating a few things, but at least choxorn can learn something from this.

Hmm, something is going bad IMHO. We shouldn't have allowed yellow Zulus gain so many cities in our west. They consumed most of our expansion space... I don't understand why we are building cities in the north, it's a waste of settlers in this stage of the game.

Not too bad Choxorn but I do wonder why you built walls at all? Aside from forts on choke points I don't think I've ever built walls.

Don't see why you caved to the literature demand but not to the gold demand... :confused:

And like Sima I would rather have stayed in Despo than go Monarchy at this stage as we don't get much benefit from Monarchy (we aren't using mountains and so forth and don't have a GA) and would much have preferred to go Republic if we are self-researching.

Obviously we lost Schizobane which is a blow, but how did you only manage to found 2 new cities in 20 turns at this stage of the game?

Why are we sending settlers north? Was all the space toward the other civs already occupied?

And when in expansion phase and we are talking about core cities always (and i mean ALWAYS) use the lux slider for unhappiness. You said you hired an entertainer, even if you have to hire a specialist, was that because that was the only specialist that could be used, or could a taxman have been used instead?

As I said before, not too bad, the loss of Schizobane could not be helped and all up it was pretty good.

I don't think anyone has posted a got it yet so...

Got it :D

To all: Sorry If I messed up a little. :( As you know, I'm not very experienced. But hey, at least I didn't totally mess up.
As for entertainers, as a Cheiftain player I don't know how to solv entertainment problems very well.
City placement: I did purple dot to get wines, and blue dots because they are three spaces away from Sima's other dots. And why didn't I get many settlers? I was trying to get a defender or two in cities, and many cities weren't good for production (all except Bane, Babwe, Mania!, and Lieya), and only Bane and Babwe were good for SF. Speaking of Babwe, why was it undefended when I picked up the save? :eek: Well, anyway, Bane was the only good Settler producer. When I picked it up, It was building a Library, but couldn't finish before bane grew to size 7, where SF can't be done. However, now that Babwe has defenders, you can use it as an SF and it can't Flip. :D
Caves: Orange seemed to me to be more powerful than red. Also, Red would have to go through LB cuture borders to get to us, whereas orange is blocked by no culture borders. And hey, we got something out of the war, if not very much.
Research/Revolution: Doh! :hammer2: I guess I should have went republic, but it was too expensive. But I could have bought Monarchy, probably. And I'm not sure I should have revolted. :crazyeye:
@Sima: As for AI attitude, That's not something I can fix. Plus, as you know, everyone was furious with us. Also, I'm clearing jungle because I plan to build road there. Although I could easily have just built the road, I decided to do this first. However, that was the only jungle square I planned to clear.
@Whomp:
Walls: Sorry. Thought they might be useful. :blush:
Looks good. Did you move the science slider to 0% before you did these trades?
Doh!

Well, that's it. Oh, and, feel free to change something I did if you think it was a mistake. ;)

@choxorn:

Don't worry about making mistakes, they're the most effective way to learn how to play the game. I'd be happy to see you improving your gameplay as a result of this.

It was my fault for leaving Schizobabwe undefended and unhappy, I needed to divert the units to fend off the barbs. Those stacks were huuuge. Simplest way to handle the situation would have been to create a taxman, then build a worker the next turn. Manipulating the lux slider is not an easy skill to master, but you should not be afraid of using that feature.

City placement: I would really have liked to put a city on the red dot in my dotmap, in fact I might even have preferred it over the purple dot by the wines. That location would have been great for pop-rushing, but now that we have revolted that will no longer be possible. The blue dots were good city locations, but there was no danger that the AI would beat us to them, so I would have prioritized some of the more distant but strategically valuable locations.

Government: I would recommend revolting to republic as soon as we get the tech, unless some circumstances would make that an unwise move. The pop-rush ability in despotism has its subtle advantages in certain situations, and I think this was one of them. But now, it's definitely not worth it to go back to despotism after all this just to pop rush, though. Let's get into republic ASAP.

AI demands: As a matter of fact, orange is also on the opposite side of the continent, so I don't see why you were worried. Did you think they would attack New Ulundi (or Schizolundi, as it is now)? If that were to happen, I would have given the city away, and teleported the impi back to our capital to avoid setting off an early GA. In fact, I was even thinking of doing that during my turn set if the barbs became too dangerous, just to get an extra defender in our core.

Research: Do not be afraid to deficit research if it looks like we have saved up enough gold for it, or if it is likely we can get a monopoly tech this way and trade it to the AI for a high price. I'm pretty certain we have more libs and roads than the AI, so we could arguably out-research them, even if this is emperor level. A third lib in Schizobane would have helped a lot, but there's nothing that can be done about that now.

Pre-Flight

Hmmm our situation is worse than I thought, looking at our crap economy and lack of ability to pop rush I am instantly reminded why, AW aside, I always stay in despo 'till I get Republic rather than change to monarchy. We have just 7 workers for 10 cities, We have entertainers in cities that dont need any specialists, there has been very little MM of cities done. Once done we have Feudalism in 20 turns and are up to a positive cash flow again (from 22 turns at deficit) with no loss of production, just simple things like making sure that when its an option between an unroaded and a roaded tile that you are using the roaded ones, can make a huge difference.
Change 3 impi builds to settlers
1 Temple build to library
2 rax builds to workers (why are we building raxes in size 1 or 2 2nd ring cities?)

Shizolundi is building a rax? That city is hopelessly corrupt, if it ever produces any mil it will be cats and they dont need raxes, (there's no such thing as a vet cat :crazyeye:) so i switch it to a worker. Might as well get somethign useful out of that city.

We have only one embassies, i don't know why this is but I don't have the cash to establish them with everyone so I go for the cheapest ones now and will do more later.
Get embassies with
German Blue Zulu
Roman Red Zulu
and English Orange Zulu.
All are building the Great Library, with the quickest in 18 turns, all 3 capitals are protected by 3 impi.

Red and Chinese Blue Zulu are at war (could be others but don't have the embassies to find out)

Anyway, onwards ho... might I add that having not played an emperor game for some time I am absolutely amazed that by 350BC the Great Wall, Great Lighthouse, Great Library and Collosus are all still yet to be built. My most recent game (deity) had all AA wonders finished by 700BC.

IBT - Schizodeathpit gets culture expansion, Bapedi (AGZ) completes the Great Wall (spoke to soon for one of the wonders!) and 'The Zulu' start work on the Great Library.

Turn 1 - Only 3 workers and a settler available to move, decide to send the settler toward the red dot, though on reflection I opt to change the position of the red dot 1E, as that is the same RCP, and save a BG. The other position would have the wines but as we have wines up north anyway it seems much less important and I'd rather have the BG available to be worked, the first position won't deny the yellow Zulu wines as they already have 2 by their capital.

IBT - barbs show to our northeast. A host of different Zulus cascade from Great Wall to Great Library, Great Lighthouse and Collosus

Turn 2 - Schizoleiya (geez, these may be in theme but when it comes to write our say them these are worse than Aztec names!!!): settler --> Impi
With that cities pop having now dropped (we are still in expansion phase so cities really shouldn't be sitting there at size 6 building mil, they should be popping workers or settlers), we are now able to cut lux back 10% and put that into science, that gets us Feudalism in 15 at +4gpt, thats a 3 turn improvement. Send the settler to dark blue dot. (would send him to orange but it will take him 2 turns to reach Schizobabwe and it will build its own settler in 2 turns anyway)

IBT - A second barb horse arrives, the first moves to threaten the undefended Schizoleiya.

Turn 3 - Schizodeathpit: rax --> worker, Schizojungle: worker --> lib.
Move the impi out of Schizobabwe to defend Schizoleiya, no riots there tho. Settler for blue dot is in position.

IBT - Both barb horses die attacking impi

Turn 4 - Shizobabwe: Settler --> Impi.
Found Schizounguin: lib, until it gets some workers over there to irrigate the plains it will be useless, i'm dying to whip a few of the builds... :(

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - Schizoleiya: impi --> settler
...meh nothing to report.

IBT - We get a demand for 12gp + TM from AGZ (I can see what Choxorn means about the text colour and he is right). I cycle through our advisors comments. They are impressed with our culture, have a larger military and (allegedly) fear our swordsmen...
They are very close to us... we can't risk losing the last of our gold in case there is any deficit from unit builds in the interturn... hmmmm... in the end I figure, 12 gold is 12 gold. They can have it.

Turn 6 - Schizodeathpit: worker --> sword
We don't go deficit though, we get no change. Found Schizoredot (worker) and we go positive (albeit only +1gpt).

IBT - there are a lot of orange troops going past schizolundi, they aren't at war with anyone so they must be prepping to declare war.

Turn 7 - Schizobabwe: impi --> settler, Schizowhaleport: lib --> harbor
MM our cities a little and we can have Feudalism in 6. thats 4 turns less than when I MM back in turn 2, no AI has it yet but they have to be researching it.

IBT - wines come online

Turn 8 - Schizograpes: Worker --> Worker (I'm hopping its distance from everyone else will give us some leeway with culture there). Cut lux back by to 0 now that we have wines (no riots) we are at +5gpt but cant increase science as that would take us to -2gpt (we only have 1gp).

IBT - What do you want first the good or the great news? Well the good is that Schizoleiya gets culture expansion.
The great is that Schizobane flips back to us! boo ya!

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/3975/picture24dm.jpg

Turn 9 - Schizoleiya: settler --> impi, Schizomania!: Lib --> settler, Schizoponyland: Impi --> worker.
Not taking risks with Schizobane this time, set it to library have to hire a taxman to prevent riot. Send Schizoleiya's settler to green dot. Start working on plans for my own new dots. Spices settler can be there in 3. Getting Schizobane back was a big boost, we now have Feudalism in 3.

IBT - belay that last comment. We have a barb warrior at 3 'oclock from our settler.

Turn 10 - Schizoulundi: worker --> worker (would be temple if we could pop rush), Schizobane riots... ahem... that is odd seeing as I checked it last turn and it was fine... no growth or nethign, check the luxs... nope no change...aha... according to the faces its not actually unhappy (2 happy, 1 content, 2 unhappy, 1 taxman)... how peculiar....
Move the settler onto the mountain (away from barb warrior), impi can meet up with im in 2, can then proceed back to spices city site, that'll be 6-7 turns before we get that city now. Should've given him an escort. Thats my bad (see everybody makes mistakes :lol:).

IBT - barb warrior near our settler kills a yellow zulu warrior fortified in jungle... ok, super barbs are about!

Turn 11 - Schizobabwe: settler --> impi, Schizobane resumes normality (that was weird last turn...).
Drop science 20% to +13gpt and still have Feudalism in 1. Impi n spice city settler (SCS) hook up. send Schizobabwe settler northwestish of Schizobane. Check F8 and guys, be pleased to note we are the culture leaders and more than double the next best. I told you Emperor culture was weak.

IBT - Feudalism comes in, turn off research (want max gpt in order to buy Republic),.

Turn 12 - Schizobabwe: settler --> impi
well about half the civs already have Feudalism, 2 don't have republic. We want Republic BAAADDDLY so I decide not to bankrupt us getting Monotheism (even tho only 2 civs no it so it could be useful for trades). AGZ offer the best deal for Republic.

AGZ - Feudalism + 10gp + World Map + 7gpt for Republic.

I choose not to revolt immediately as without taxmen we don't yet have the cash to handle the credit payments with no income (we have a grand total of 10gp in entire treasury! :lol:) Reset research on engineering to 1 scientist research (that 1 scientist is in schizobane) at +36gpt. 2-3 turns and we should be right for a revolt (i like spare cash in case any demands come in while we are in revolt).

Decide to sell Rep and feudalism around and...

:eek:

Ok that is freakish! At the start of the turn 2 civs had monotheism, 2 didn't have republic and 4 (inc. us) had Feudalism.

Now everyone has all 3...

What the hell!?!?! Sima you were dead right when you said you can probably leave everything you know abotu civ at the door! Thats just bizzare!
2 anomolies in 3 turns. So much for trading them around :rolleyes:

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 13 - ummmm the quietest turn of the set.

IBT - zzz

Turn 14 - Schizobabwe: Impi --> sword, Schizomania!: Settler --> worker.
Found Schizovry (green dot): library, Found Schizospices (orange dot): library, we just beat a GBZ settler pair to the spices. Its now that i realise I haven't been building any offensive mil. I switch all impi builds to swords.

IBT - uh huh... I had 2 city spots earmarked for northwestish of Schizobane. Both have been poached by galley-dropped settlers. Well to buggery with you!

Turn 15 - I have to bring those 2 settlers back now don't I? fooey!

IBT - Chinese Pink Zulu make demand 22gp, they are the biggest boys on the block and (i think) they are the leaders in the power graph. We are only 'weak to them' and we in fact are having no cats and a whopping 2 swords. I cave. We are still short of workers and I want to put a theory into practice so while he is there I purchase 2 workers for 51gp (hope no-one objects). Mpondo (Chinese Pink Zulu) completes the Great Library.

Turn 16 - Schizomania!: worker --> sword.
Aha! The workers we purchased DO count as native workers. Thats very interesting... very interesting indeed... pick 2 new spots for our settlers (1 2nd ring, 1 3rd ring).

IBT - We have a ZYZ impi marauding through our territory... probably headed to the city site they poached 2 interturns ago... decide not to risk a war with them atm.

Turn 17 - Schizodeathpit: sword --> sword... kill a barb horse with an impi (fat fingered it but its all good as we win flawlessly).

IBT - zzz

Turn 18 - Schizobabwe: Sword --> Sword, Schizoleiya: Settler --> Sword.
We have 3 settlers and I only have 3 more city sites planned before we go Republic... we've got 96gp so we should be able to take a demand or two while in anarchy without having to sell anything. I decide now is as good a time as any to revolt. I make sure I've done all worker moves first then revolt and we draw...

5 turns anarchy, thats about as good as we could have hoped for really. Disperse a barb camp with an impi (redlined). The only place needing a specialist is Schizobane so it gets a taxman (maybe shouldve waited for lib to finish before revolting? oh well too late now).

IBT - zzz

Turn 19 - just shuffling guys along, meh.

IBT - Ack, schizodiamond got growth last turn and I missed it in my happiness sweep so it riots, make a taxman there.

Turn 20 - Found Schizotugger and Schizodeer. Both set to workers, not that it matters that much as we are in anarchy. Ummm ya... thats bout it for this turn really.

So heres my analysis.

Well the situation wasnt nearly as bad as my initial impression had made out (and that wasn't that bad). A little MM and reshuffling units and sliders and we were doing fine. We got Republic for not that much though the tech business after that was... strange to say the least. We have 3 turns of anarchy left to run (would have been good to not have to leave the next player with any anarchy turns but the timing of the revolt wasn't right before that. I neglected our mil efforts too much I think as I was concentrating on expansion (and with no settler factory it was a tad annoying). Getting Schizobane back in the flip was great news but I started it on a lib so we didn't actually get anythign out of it.
The settler to the east is headed for any one of the 3 RCP 11 sites Sima showed on his dotmap, obviously the grassland one would be best in terms of tile usage but it leaves it a bit too much space for a 3rd ring city, not thats necessarily a bad thing, with a courthouse (and maybe police station??) and WLTKD it should be pretty decent. You might notice Schizobane is on starvation yet has 2 (non-entertainer) specialists hired when it could have 1 entertainer and have growth. The reason for that is that it won't completely starve before the anarchy finishes and the scientist is to make sure we keep our min run on engineering going. The taxman just lowers our deficit during anarchy.

I don't really have many suggestions for the next player, jsut consolidate. We will need a little lux slider once we hit republic as the MP's won't count anymore. We could prob move the core MP's (like in Schizobabwe for example) to the borders. We will want markets in core cities very soon as with 3 luxs they'll increase happiness and would prob make us able to run 0 lux while under size 6. I am building a harbor in whaleport to open up trading opportunities for luxs and resources (a few civs ahve no iron, we have 2 although only 1 is hooked up). We are well in the culture lead but the AI can build Caths n we can't. Keep an eye on culture and whenever the chance to build a few libs or temps (if nothing else is more urgent) don't hesitate. Keep building swords and well yeh...
Choxorn's the expert on turn numbers so he can tell me if I've played the right number :P

Good luck to whoever picks this up, go get 'em tiger!

'Zululand' :crazeye:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2686/picture38bh.jpg

the save

Nice set Tupa. Very curious trading picture, indeed. I'm a big fan of workers and it look like you got them real cheap. :yup: Generally, is the core going settler or worker/military/settler or worker/miltary? Correct?

The Roman Red Zulus are fininshed. The good news is the Chinese blue Zulus have spent their GA.

It's about time we start talking about our war plans. What do you guys think about our first victim? Celtic Green Zulu would give us a defensible position with water to our back to the east. Yellow looks easy but it may be better to use them as our buffer.

As an aside...Choxorn please take our comments constructively. I think you've learned some things by what has been said and now you can use them for your future games. We all make mistakes but the key is to learn from them.

When you're deciding what to build you have to ask, why would I need this? My default option when I don't know is...workers or settlers. You always need more of them.

Step up the difficulty level on the training SG you started to regent. You're ready.

Just a quick note: We have to be very careful about eliminating other civs. Since we can't vote for ourselves in the UN, there will have to be at least 5 survivors to the modern age (including us). That way we can get 3 to vote for us, one to vote themselves, and we can still win if we abstain.

@Tupac - very well played. I'm curious though, why didn't you claim another tile of wines with Schizoredot?

A few things.

We have entertainers in cities that dont need any specialists, there has been very little MM of cities done.


Strange, I thought all the clowns quit. :confused: Oh, and, I'm not a very good micromanager.


Anyway, onwards ho... might I add that having not played an emperor game for some time I am absolutely amazed that by 350BC the Great Wall, Great Lighthouse, Great Library and Collosus are all still yet to be built. My most recent game (deity) had all AA wonders finished by 700BC.


I'm also confused why all these wonders weren't built. Even as a chieftain player, I know that the AI absolutely LOVES building wonders, and will whenever they get the chance.


@Tupac - very well played. I'm curious though, why didn't you claim another tile of wines with Schizoredot?


The answer is in Tupac's turnlog:


Turn 1 - Only 3 workers and a settler available to move, decide to send the settler toward the red dot, though on reflection I opt to change the position of the red dot 1E, as that is the same RCP, and save a BG. The other position would have the wines but as we have wines up north anyway it seems much less important and I'd rather have the BG available to be worked, the first position won't deny the yellow Zulu wines as they already have 2 by their capital.



Turn 2 - Schizoleiya (geez, these may be in theme but when it comes to write our say them these are worse than Aztec names!!!)


Just leave out the "schizo". :)


With that cities pop having now dropped (we are still in expansion phase so cities really shouldn't be sitting there at size 6 building mil, they should be popping workers or settlers)


They were building military/rax because they were pretty much undefended. As you know, even though I was building military, barbs got to a city twice in my turnset. You really need at least 2 defenders per city.


The great is that Schizobane flips back to us! boo ya!

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/3975/picture24dm.jpg


YES!!:woohoo:


Schizobane riots... ahem... that is odd seeing as I checked it last turn and it was fine... no growth or nethign, check the luxs... nope no change...aha... according to the faces its not actually unhappy (2 happy, 1 content, 2 unhappy, 1 taxman)... how peculiar....


Things like that have happened to me before. e.g., several times I've had a city riot even though all the citizens were content.


Ok that is freakish! At the start of the turn 2 civs had monotheism, 2 didn't have republic and 4 (inc. us) had Feudalism.

Now everyone has all 3...


WTF? I've seen strange, but nothing like this! :eek:


Choxorn's the expert on turn numbers so he can tell me if I've played the right number :p


You did :) :yup:

They were building military/rax because they were pretty much undefended. As you know, even though I was building military, barbs got to a city twice in my turnset. You really need at least 2 defenders per city. Chances are we will have few defenders. In fact, in some cities we'll have none unless it's to avoid flipping. Barb uprisings are temporary and were the only reason we'd need many units to our north. In all honesty barbs do very minor damage in the overall scheme of things.

The AI is very poor at landing units so the vast majority of defenders will be on our southern front lines and perimeters. We will have substantially more offensive units than defensive units. Hence the reason why rax in non core cities is not worth it. Cats and trebs are the only military units, if that, produced in corrupt cities.


@Sima Regarding attitude....if I hear what you're saying we should be focused on conquering and controlling luxs and resources. Is that accurate?

@Sima - my reasoning was that we had two wines at present, with no trade routes it didn't matter how many more we had and gettign our hands on the 3rd wines tile isn't exactly going to be dificult. Also as the city was second ring it would have decent production and in terms of city growth, the flood plains would provide more than enough food (the wines are +1fpt as you know) that the wines wouldn't be needed, so I opted to keep the BG.

Just my reasoning for it, I did have a decent think about it before I did anything as I know you wanted the red dot on the BG to claim the wines. if we didn't already have wines up north I wouldn't have even considered not founding next to the wines but as it was...

@Tupac - ahh my bad, I only drew that dot based on what I saw in crprings, I actually didn't look at it when I loaded up the save. :hammer2:

can someone please tell me how to download CRpMapStat? :(

can someone please tell me how to download CRpMapStat? :(
On Dianathus' first page he has a link to his website. Click the link and there's a download there. You should have all of your teammates in the training game dl it was well.

Mapstat (http://www.cfc-dianthus.com/CRpSuite/)

Got it (if no-one else has beaten me to it)

Questions
Will we want to trade spare resources given unpredicability of flips could cause loss of rep?
Note 'deathpit building granary - I would prioritise culture and suggest switch to temple - any problem?
Do we want to spam more cities just beyond our furthest ring - if they build temples and libs it will help our kulcha count, but will increase costs of supporting buildings in corrupt areas and require more military to defend
We want mono and Edu for caths and unis in all our core cities, what about stronger fighting units - ie knights?
Markets will also be priority when in rep to support our culture buildings - so many competing requirements
War - since we are going for diplomacy I suggset we avoid AMAP, getting an army to discourage attacks is also a priority - currently strong v 1 (reds), average v 2 (? which - 1st and 4th in F3 list) and weak to other 4
GA - my thinking is GA anytime once in republic will allow us to build the necessary infra and military

Is the settler going to where the damaged Impi stands?

On Dianathus' first page he has a link to his website. Click the link and there's a download there. You should have all of your teammates in the training game dl it was well.

Mapstat (http://www.cfc-dianthus.com/CRpSuite/)

Whomp, I know how to download it, but I don't know where to put the file. Does that clarify things for you?

Whomp, I know how to download it, but I don't know where to put the file. Does that clarify things for you?
It doesn't go into any civ3 files if that's what you're asking. I unzipped the file and put it on my desktop. When I play a game of civ I run mapstat, word(for my log) and paint (for pictures) in the background and toggle to them every turn.

What the f***, I unzipped and installed the file and there's no way to run it! :mad:

What the f***, I unzipped and installed the file and there's no way to run it! :mad:
Chill young Choxorn. No need to stress. Why don't you post in Dianthus' thread and explain what your problem is. There's a lot of people, smarter than I, that can help you load the program.

What the f***, I unzipped and installed the file and there's no way to run it! :mad:
I don't know if this will help. I unzipped it to "Program Files" and it's listed as "CFC Dianthus", then in another sub-directory are each of the utilities. Then I made shortcuts for my desktop to click on when I want to play. Here's a pic of my Windows Program Files Sub-Directory:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/CrpSuiteDirectory.jpg

I don't think it matters much exactly WHERE you put it, so long as you can click on the .exe file (or desktop shortcut) to get it to run. :)

Summary

Quiet builder turns
New Intombe 3 flipped to us (from yellow Zulu)
Red Zulu has been eliminated
We had multiple demands for money and maps - I caved on all
Unit support costs in Republic and lack of workers hampered these turns, however markets are helping the financial side of things. The necessity of getting culture in our corrupt towns hinders our ability to draw workers from these (oh to be able to draft - commie anyone?)
Traded for mono, theology, invention and chivalry (another 15 turns owing of 31gpt) - the plus side of this is those Shakas extorting us (the 2 blues in particular) are now owed money by us and have stopped demanding
All Shakas have remained furious with us, I completed embassies, but did not give any ROPs - any ideas why?
Currently researching Printing Press (due in 8) for hopeful monopoly. All other Shakas are up guns which they got simulateously on last IBT.

Turnlog

Preturn
'diamond rioting - will quieten
'lundi about to riot - gets a taxman
6 unconected towns ('lundi too far to do), other 5 require roading. Much for workers to do around core and dont even bother looking at jungle. I would like twice as many workers but to get them I would either have to pare back core cities or stop important culture in outlying towns - I'll just get what I'm able to.
Military consists of 10 Impi, 4 swords, 2 archers and 3 warriors. With republic online soon we will need markets in addition to libs, I dont see time for building an army yet, better lie down and play dead if nasty Zulu comes knocking
Culture doing well, but dropping off at end of chart presumably the effect of anarchy - we need to keep pushing this
Settlers - still a 4 or 5 good sites and more could be crammed in, but avoid parking too close to other zulus (ie not within 2 tiles)

1) 70AD
We're in anarchy so :coffee:
IBT
orange Zulu complete Colossus in Ngome 2

2) 90AD
more worker moves
IBT
DBZ demands TM + 23g
We become Republic - 10%lux

3) 110AD
MM for Republic
Engineering remains expensive -> do some research to reduce cost
IBT
'whaleport harbour -> market

4) 130AD
Settle Schizo-Um 3 in NE RCP11 (3rd ring) -> worker
IBT
'bane lib -> settler

5) 150AD
est Embassies with remaining Zulus
Yellow Zulu building Sun Tzu in 20, Green Zulu lots of kulcha, LBZ lots of units, all have 2 clowns in size 8 or 9 capital (1 lux each)

6) 170AD
red dot about to riot -> taxman (about to be connected to trade network)
IBT
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/New_Intombe_3_flips_to_us.JPG

7) 190AD
starve NI3 to size 2 so can use taxman not clown
Trade RedZulu Monotheism for 24gpt, down to 1 city and still at war :mischief:
IBT
'bane settler -> settler, gets culture expansion and 4turn SF operating
'diamond lib -> market
Some Zulu building Leo's
NI3 starves

8) 210AD
zzz
IBT
more unidentified Zulus building Leo's (too lazy so did not check out who via F7 :p )

9) 230AD
all towns connected bar 'spices and 'lundi -> send crew to road to spices
IBT
DBZ demands TM + 25g (again :mad: ) - I cave
'lieya sword -> worker
'deer worker -> lib

10) 250AD
zzz
IBT
Red Zulu destroyed, our gpt goes up ;)
Engineering -> Theology (all Zulu have Invention, all bar orange have chivalry, nil have theology)

11) 260 AD
zzz
IBT
LBZ demand TM + 19g (all) - I cave
'bane settler -> settler
'lieya worker -> market

12) 270AD
zzz
IBT
'jungle lib -> market
'tugger worker -> temple
Zulu building Sistine

13) 280AD
7 settler pairs heading to same region - we beat them (cant see all in screenie) settle Schizo-Beatya
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Beat_ya_280AD.JPG
all bar green and LB have theology
IBT
3 settler pairs turn back, 4 press on entering our territory
'babwe market -> cath
'Um3 worker -> temple

14) 290AD
zzz
IBT
'mania market to temple (notice sig increase in gpt with each market build)
'unguin lib -> market
Orange Zulu complete Sun Tzu's

15) 300AD
Trade around world maps for gold
Trade DBZ theology +6g for 19gpt + WM
Trade LBZ invention +6g for theology +10gpt + WM
Trade GrZ chivalry +4g for theology, 2gpt + WM
Reseach switched to Printing Press (due in 13) ? opportunity for monopoly
- currently at tech parity
IBT
'bane settler -> market

16) 310AD
settle Shizokulu at RCP8 in west (pink dot on above screenie)
IBT
NI3 worker -> temple

17) 320AD
zzz
IBT
Yellow Zulu beat me to northeastern tip - dropped by galley - instead will send settler to forest on RCP11 just south

18) 330AD
zzz
IBT
Yellow Zulu settles New Amitikulu 3 and settler pairs in our area head back (except for green horse-settler)

19) 340AD
zzz
IBT
'whaleport market -> temple
'ponyland temple -> worker
'grapes temple -> worker
Simultaneously all other Zulus discover guns :confused:

20) 350AD
hopefully leave things tidy for next player

Notes

our military is pitiful - I built 1 sword and disbanded warriors - we can now build knights

our workers have mainly been connecting our road network, ther is much to be done to improve our core - some towns only had 3 or 4 improved tiles to use, so I stole a worker from them rather than use an unimproved tile
on positive note - spices will be online soon, work crew has just moved onto spice tile
large gpt deal lasts another 15 turns, printing should come up in 8. After this we should be in much better shape to research faster (need unis). Of course any war will slow all this down

For culture I have been building libs first in 1st and 2nd ring towns and temples in 3rd ring which take a long time and will not give much science boost. I have started 1 cath so far (in capital), this really requires growing the town to justify. Once education avail then unis should be higher priority

And the culture graph

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Culture_graph_350AD.JPG

watch for flips to pink and orange

I don't know if this will help. I unzipped it to "Program Files" and it's listed as "CFC Dianthus", then in another sub-directory are each of the utilities. Then I made shortcuts for my desktop to click on when I want to play. Here's a pic of my Windows Program Files Sub-Directory:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/CrpSuiteDirectory.jpg

I don't think it matters much exactly WHERE you put it, so long as you can click on the .exe file (or desktop shortcut) to get it to run. :)

It was there. Thanks!

P.S. Where can I download CivAssist?

CivAssistII (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118540)

Um...Cody, werert you over 1000 posts?:scan:

Yeah, I know. I bet a mod lowered is post count.

I had about 50 posts in the "What Song Are You Listening To?" thread and it got totally deleted. I thought I got a PCR at first, but I talked to Padma about it and it was alright :).

Seeing that I'm the first one to download the save I think I can safely say "I got it."

I'll get it when you're done Sima.

cody- What's a PCR? :(

350 AD (Turn 0)

Well, if I'm not mistaken, Schizowhaleport currently has the only harbor on the entire map. Not a single resource can be traded, grr. Pick it up, Shaka Slacka!
I'm seeing markets and culture buildings going up all over the place - good.
I'm going to tentatively switch 'Um-3 and 'tugger to libs, even though they wil probably actually turn into workers. Just going to see how this works out...
Workers are looking fine, roading and chopping seem to have been popular jobs lately. Looks like spices will be coming in soon.
New Intombe 3 renamed to Schizoflipper in honor of the surrounding aquatic life.

And I hit enter.

IBT:

Green horse + settler goes deeper into our territory... uhm... please, don't...

360 AD (Turn 1)

Worker stuff and MM'ing.
Schizobane about to riot... but it's because one worker is on the wheats with 0 commerce, moving him around gets the lux slider to kick in and stop it.
Schizoflipper about to riot, but the road is going to be completed next turn, so I just make a taxman for a turn.
Founded Schizobarbport on the spot where the settler was, leaving a barb galley in our borders and one unworkable coastal tile. Starts on a library.
Make some single-digit gold by selling maps around.

IBT:

Green units continue to wander inside our borders, orange units leave.

370 AD (Turn 2)

Schizomania: Temple -> Cathedral
Schizodiamond: Marketplace -> Temple
Schizograpes: Worker -> Library
Taxman taken off Schizoflipper
Schizoponyland: Worker changed to Library

IBT:

Pink Zulu completes Great Lighthouse in Hlobane 2. And yet they still do not have a harbor. :lol:
One cascade to Leo's.

380 AD (Turn 3)

Worker stuff...

IBT:

Green units look like they're on their way out.
Yellow Zulu completes Leonardo's Workshop in Hlobane.
Two cascades to Sistine Chapel.

390 AD (Turn 4)

Spices connected. I drop lux to 0, raise science to 50%.
Schizobane will riot with the reduced lux, but I can make a taxman there without delaying the market.

400 AD (Turn 5)

Worker stuff... mostly chopping in corrupt locations.
Science back at 40%, printing press still due in 2 turns.

410 AD (Turn 6)

Arguably the most boring turn so far... I ordered 1 worker to chop, that's it.
Science now at 30%, printing press due next turn.

IBT:

Ok, this is not so boring:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8108/ss410ad2xe.png

Goes back to Pink, the original owner.

Green is finally out of our territory.

420 AD (Turn 7)

Printing Press researched. Don't know what's next, so I temporarily put science at 0.
Schizobane: Marketplace -> Temple. The taxman goes back to work in the fields.
Worker from Schizolundi begins a 26-turn journey back to our territory... yawn...
We have monopoly on Printing Press. Orange, green, and dark blue have Education.
Dark Blue gives us the best deal, a simple trade of Education for Printing Press. They have 0 gold, and won't give us a world map, so I can't negotiate further.
Sell Education + Printing Press to Yellow for WM + Gunpowder + 50g.
We have two saltpeter within our borders, one of them is connected.
Chances are Printing Press will get immediately traded all over the place, so I decide to do that myself. Sell Printing Press to Orange for 31g + 11gpt, to Light Blue for WM + 44g. Green and Pink have single digit gold to offer, I don't bother with them.
No more culture buildings at this point, so I start research on banking, at 60% science.
Scizobabwe: Cathedral switched to University.
Schizobane: Temple switched to University.
Schizomania: Cathedral switched to University.
Schizodiamond: Temple switched to University.
Schizowhaleport: Temple switched to University.

430 AD (Turn 8)

Well, I probably should have sold the techs around some more. Now everyone is on tech parity with us.

440 AD (Turn 9)

Schizounguin: Marketplace -> University

450 AD (Turn 10)

Schizojungle: Marketplace -> University

460 AD (Turn 11)

zzzzz...

IBT:

Dark Blue Zulu completes Sistine Chapel in Zimbabwe.
No cascade.

470 AD (Turn 12)

Schizovry: Library -> Marketplace

480 AD (Turn 13)

Schizobabwe: University -> Cathedral
Schizolieya: Marketplace -> Aqueduct
Schizodeathpit: Marketplace -> University
Schizodeer: Library -> Marketplace

490 AD (Turn 14)

Pink and Orange have chemistry, neither will trade it to us.

500 AD (Turn 15)

Worker stuff...

510 AD (Turn 16)

Schizograpes: Library -> Marketplace
Science dropped to 50% to get Banking next turn
Yellow also has chemistry now.
Schizokulu will starve because I'm an idiot and never connected it with luxes.

520 AD (Turn 17)

Banking researched. Astronomy next, due in 9 turns.
Schizokulu starves as expected.
Green has Music Theory and Chemistry now, Pink also has music theory.
Sell Banking to Pink for Music Theory + WM + a whopping 31gpt, they have 0 gold. They better not declare war on us...
Sell Banking + Music Theory to Yellow for Chemistry + 7g.
Sell Banking to Green for WM + 57g + 6gpt.
Sell Music Theory to Dark Blue for WM + 50g.
I changed my mind, going for economics due in 8 turns at 80% science. That's before the cathedral in Schizobabwe can finish, so I think that can become a prebuild for Smith's Trading Company. A wonder I actually like, as a matter of fact. I don't want to prebuild in another city because of the flip risk.

530 AD (Turn 18)

Schizoredot: Library -> Barracks. I think we're going to need some military around here. I also hire a taxman to avoid a riot.

540 AD (Turn 19)

Schizobabwe grows, will riot so I raise lux to 10%.
Taxman in Schizoredot gets fired.

IBT:

Pink Zulu demands TM + 47g, I let them have it. Definitely do not want to lose that 31gpt they are giving us.

550 AD (Turn 20)

Schizomania: University -> Cathedral
All of a sudden I realize there's not much of a point of keeping units in Schizomania, so I send a sword on his way toward the south, in case anything unexpected happens there.
Science dropped to 70% so that economics comes in 5 turns instead of 4. The cathedral in Schizobabwe finished in 6 turns, so there will still be enough time to switch to Smith's.

Current Situation

- The AI still has no harbors. And therefore, still no trade routes. That may actually be a good thing, since they can't demand resources from us. And we will have to be very careful when trading resources, since if a resource city flips, our reputation gets ruined.
- Schizokulu is still not connected... may someone please handle that.
- Some serious flipping has happened in what used to be Red Zulu. It used to be almost all Light Blue, but now a lot of it is Yellow.
- New Zimbabwe 2 flipped from Yellow to Pink Zulu. Maybe we could have denied them wines after all... oh well, no big deal there. It'll be a long time before they get cultural expansion anyway... or maybe they'll flip to us!
- I think I got carried away with the culture, we need more military. But where to build it...?
- I'd like to see Schizobabwe tiles improved for production, but feel free to interpret that however you wish. If you want to irrigate so that you can mine the mountains and work those, go ahead. If you want to mine the grassland, well, just keep in mind they will probably get irrigated eventually at some point to support the high-shield mountain/hill tiles.
- I repeat: Try to get Smith's! Schizobabwe already has 80-something shields from the cathedral build, while the AI just started JS Bach's about 2 turns ago. I think we can beat them to that wonder. If not.... well... let's hope Copernicus can be our consolation prize.

The Save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Schizophrenic_Shaka,_550_AD.SAV

cody- What's a PCR? :(

Post Count Reduction. You get one if you're naughty.

I suggest we get back on-topic, though. ;)

Nicely played SQ. :goodjob:

I agree that once the cultural builds (libs and unis in particular) are completed in our core we need to have at least 2 cities on military builds otherwise AI demands are going to come thicker and faster (and maybe no demand - just dow).
We should be careful where we position them - hate to lose a big stack in a flip. ? spread out in diff cities to reduce flip risk or stationed out of town?+

Losing 'lundi is no surprise and is actually a good thing for us (although it does help pink of course) We were paying unit support for 2 mp's there. I had intended making a comment about disbanding the units there to poss speed temple and reduce unit support costs, but when I typed my report it got left off :blush:

Re Smith's - its a nice wonder, but how many turns to build it? I'm guessing we're making about 12spt and IIRC Smith's is 600s, so another 40 or so turns - can this be reduced by growing / using hills? If we could build it in say 30 turns I think we are a good chance, that might take 16spt. (I dont have access to save or civ as my son is hosting a LAN party and I have knicked off to use a work computer :p )

I got it. Are we sure we need Smith's? That's a lot of units not being built.

@Whomp: Good point. Oh, right, this is Pangaea, the benefit from Smith's is actually not that much considering the very minimal number of harbors and airports we will have.

Smith's might turn out to be a prebuild for Copernicus then... any objections to that? Our capital is currently getting 50-something beakers per turn I think, and a science lead would never be a bad thing for a UN victory.

:confused:

I thought Smith's was for taking away the maintenance for markets, banks, and stock exchanges. That would be great for Pangea especially. Did you change this too?

@Tribute: Smith's pays maintenance for markets, banks, harbors, and airports. No such thing as a stock exchange in Vanilla.

Still a very powerful wonder, but would be even more so on arch or continents.

I repeat: Try to get Smith's! Schizobabwe already has 80-something shields from the cathedral build, while the AI just started JS Bach's about 2 turns ago. I think we can beat them to that wonder. If not.... well... let's hope Copernicus can be our consolation prize.
Yeah, both rock. Next player: go for it! And that player might be me if I'm not too busy...
Oh, and, screenie please?

The next player is me. Time to have some fun, hehe. :mischief: In case you can't tell, this is my "got it"

Glad I checked here first for further instructions before I played tonight.
I guess it's not my "got it" after all. I will grab it after choxorn.

Hey guys! Here's the log:

The good:
New cities from culture flipping

The bad:
Lost cities to culture flipping

The culture flips:

We got:
3 cities from LB Zulu, 1 from orange Zulu (which I gave back since it sucked and Orange Zulu are the cuture leaders and it might flip back and to improve their mood which didn't work)

We lost:
schizomania! and schizodeer

And, the Log:

Pre-turn(550 AD):
-Look at the situation. Pretty good. I blankly stare at the screen for 2 minutes.
-Change builds in schizovry to musket and schizotugger to sword, as they are pretty corrupt and have zero defenders.

IBT:
-Barb galleys move around
-Beatya goes into disorder, so I give it taxman.

Turn 1(560 AD):
-Several workers are standing on unroaded squares, so I road them.

IBT:
-Order restored in Beatya- it then starves
-Zulu are building JS Bach's

Turn 2(570 AD):
-Diplomacy: Orange and Pink Shakas have Astronomy, LB Shaka doesn't Have Banking, everyone else is at tech parity with us.

IBT:
-Ponyland: Library->Galley
-Redot: Rax->Walls
-Tugger: Sword->rax
-Orange and Pink Zulu are building Copernicus

Turn 3(580 AD):
-They are being built in Pink city of Mpondo and Orange city of Isipezi
-Investigation of those cities shows this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Mpondo.JPG
and this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Ispezi.JPG
-looks like pink will finish first

IBT:
-Pink Zulu asks us to leave (there's one of our workers in their territory). I gladly say yes.
-whaleport: Uni->rax

Turn 4(590 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-we get economics: I set research on Astronomy
-Bane:Uni->Temple
-Redot:Walls->temple

Turn 5(600 AD):
-Switch babwe to Smith's: It will be done in 35 turns. I think it's ours :)

IBT:
-Redot goes into disorder. I give it a clown as it's not very productive anyway.

Turn 6(610 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Yellow Zulu want to trade WM for WM+Economics. Uh... no.
-Whaleport:Rax->Musket
-unguin:Uni->Rax
-Ngome 3 cuture flips to us.

Turn 7(620 AD):
-Ouch. Ngome has 3 clowns. And increasing the lux slider doesn't solve anything. But I can decrease science and get astro in the same amount of turns. We run a 33 gpt surplus.
-Move workers around.

IBT:
-Ngome riots. Strange, one of the clowns must of quit. I forcibly rehire him. :devil:

Turn 8(630 AD):
-Rename Ngome to schizoremote (since it's so far off)

IBT:
-DBZ want to trade TM for TM. I accept for fun.
-Lieya: Duct->musket
-Schizomania! Culture flips to Orange Zulu
-Diamond:Uni->Temple
-unguin:rax->bank
-Order restores in remote, then it starves.

Turn 9(640 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Astronomy comes in- set research on Navigation (so we can get Magellan's if we lose Smith's (scratch that, it's a coastal city only wonder, which I didn't realize until as I was typing this post- doh!))
-Bane: Temple->Bank
Isipezi culture flips to us. However, it turns out to be crappy, so I gift it back to Orange Zulu. It doesn't make them any happier, though.

Turn 10(650 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-New Isipezi 3 culture flips to us. I rename it to "New Schizoremote"

Turn 11(660 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-AI moves units around
-Green Zulu are building Copernicus in Zimbabwe 3. Check this out.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Zimbabwe3.JPG
:lol:

Turn 12(670 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-ponyland:caravel->rax
-grapes:market->Musket

Turn 13(680 AD):
-Send caravel to explore and to fight barb galleys. Hehe.

IBT:
-Whaleport:Musket->temple
-Orange Zulu building copernicus in New Hlobane. I investigate the city and it's in disorder. Doh! I wasted the investigation.

Turn 14(690 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Schizovry:Musket->rax
-Zulu are building JS Bach's

Turn 15(700 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Spices:Temple->Walls

Turn 16(710 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-Diamond:Temple->Harbor
-Jungle:Uni->rax
-Zulu are building copernicus- it's the Yellow Zulu in Swazi 2

Turn 17(720 AD):
-Reduce science to 50%- Navigation still in 1 turn
-Investigate Swazi 2:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Swazi2.JPG
-Also investigate New Hlobane again- Look at this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/New_Hlobane.JPG
:lol:

IBT:
-Navigation comes in- I set research on Metallurgy
-Lieya:Musket->Bank
-Ponyland:rax->Market

Turn 18(730 AD):
zzz

IBT:
New Ngome culture flips to us- I rename it to "Schizoremote 2"

Turn 19(740 AD):
-Check diplomacy. Nobody has economics, LB and DB Zulus don't have navigation. All but LBZ have Metallurgy, and Orange, Pink, and Green Zulus have Democracy. All the Zulus who have it will trade Metallurgy to us for Economics. I leave this to Whomp.

IBT:
-Jungle:rax->musket
-unguin:Bank->Musket
-'vry:rax->musket
-Schizodeer culture flips to Orange Zulu
-Kulu:Temple->Walls

Turn 20(750 AD):
-Upgrade single Warrior in Schizojungle to sword
-rename schizounguin to schizopenguin since it sounds cooler IMO. :D

Plans:
-My workers are mindlessly building roads as they have nothing better to do.
-Nothing else, really. Here's what the world looks like now:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/turnend1.JPG

And here's the Save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Schizophrenic_Shaka,_750 AD.SAV) Good luck, Whomp!

why all the money spent investigating small towns building wonders? Only large cities near their capital are going to be a threat in the wonder race.

This random flipping of core towns is bad (first 'bane, now 'mania), does anyone recall whether 'mania or 'deer had its own culture prior to flip?

why all the money spent investigating small towns building wonders? Only large cities near their capital are going to be a threat in the wonder race.
I was kind of curious- I like to see the AI build pointless things in useless towns :lol: :rotfl: It's amusing that the AI builds wonders in 3spt and 4spt cities. And the 4spt city is a size 12! talk about poor management! :lol: :rotfl: PS Whomp are you taking this or not? PPS I have edited the text mistakes I made in my New Hlobane and Mpondo screenies- they work now :)

I'm confused. Are we going for Copernicus or Smith's? Or maybe Bach's?

I've got it but the save doesn't work.

Smith's. And oops, forgot to use _ thingy. Will do that. EDIT: Strange, the link still doesn't work. Here's a reposting of the Save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Schizophrenic_Shaka,_750_AD.SAV) It works. :)

I was kind of curious- I like to see the AI build pointless things in useless towns

I agree the AI does do many dumb things, but this is diety and it also has many advantages over us.
My point was every gold piece spent unneccessarily is less research beakers we can afford, which may delay us getting a monopoly by a turn resulting in sig different economic outcome.

Call me a tight arsed penny pincher ... and you'd be right :lol:

I agree the AI does do many dumb things, but this is diety and it also has many advantages over us.
My point was every gold piece spent unneccessarily is less research beakers we can afford, which may delay us getting a monopoly by a turn resulting in sig different economic outcome.

This is Emperor- and we usually don't run deficit research. besides, delaying getting <insert tech here> by a turn or 2 isn't a game-breaker. But the AI sure as hell is dumber than a speck of mold.

delaying getting <insert tech here> by a turn or 2 isn't a game-breaker.

You'd be very surprised...

This is Emperor-
My bad :blush: , but my opinion remains unchanged :p

OK well I'm half way through. I had a fair amount of changes to make since we were building units in non raxed cities, general mm'ing and worker moves back towards the core. In the meantime, I traded economics around and it got us lots of gold and now a monopoly in MT. Oh and btw...we're in a GA since pink must not have liked our deal for economics and started a war. We really needed the GA since it cut our Smith's build in half. The capital still needs a lot of development. Back tomorrow with the rest.

@Whomp - good to know you got the GA. Any later and we might have had no GA at all.

You'd be very surprised...
Unless of course it was an important tech like Astronomy, Construction, Flight, or Fission...

P.S.
GA? Alright! U rule Whomp! As for Economics/Metallurgy trade, that's strange. It was "An acceptable deal" according to my advisor on turn 19 of my set.

You'd be very surprised...
So true.
Unless of course it was an important tech like Astronomy, Construction, Flight, or Fission...

P.S.
GA? Alright! U rule Whomp! As for Economics/Metallurgy trade, that's strange. It was "An acceptable deal" according to my advisor on turn 19 of my set.
Just so you're aware research is just one usage of cash. I could've used that cash to short rush additional cavs but instead I have only 2. We were woeful in the military department but I'm trying to rectify that by short rushing some units with the cash from the GA.

I also garnered good amount of gpt from trading econ. which allowed us to crank up research.

Sorry for the delay...I had a client dinner last night that went a little overtime but should have my report up tonight.

First off we are building units in cities without rax. :nono: We have way too many units that are regular. There are plenty of roads but no developments on the roads. I'd like to take back 'Bane but I think I'll focus on worker tasks and offensive military builds. Muskets can't initiate action. Make wholesale changes to cities without rax and make them cats and workers. Cities with rax get swords, LB's and knights.

IT Pony worker to worker

760 Worker work on development and move back towards the core. Then do some business.



http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6747/760trade21js.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/4237/760trade33nf.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9810/760trade40ls.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7981/760trade10dt.jpg

IT Pink approcaches with archers. Whaleport knight -->knight
770 Bring units towards Pink.

IT Pink is not being cool as they approach Grape with two cannon fodder archers and a Impi. Looks like we'll need to do something abou this. Lieya sword -->sword Jungle Sword -->cannon Redot LB

780 Well I'm not gonna declare on him. I'll let him declare on me and get some gold for the turn.

IT War and GA
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2443/pinkdeclares6ry.jpg
and
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3848/ga9lg.jpg
Bane bank--knight...a riot in one of our flip cities and save remote from rioting.
Ponyland worker-->cannon Um3 temple --> worker Zulus start Cops
790 Hit the archer on desert with Impi and retreat. Take him with a sword. Whack the impi with our knight. Do some short rushing of LBs to knight. More next turn as I turn down MT to 60% still in 2.

IT Horse hit sword and sword promotes. Impi hits the sword and Impi wins. Forgot LB's don't have bombard. Dang.
Unguin knight -->knight Spices worker
800 Reg impi attacks LB and retreats. 2nd Impi attacks and promotes to elite. LB whacks a impi. Short rush some more. MT due next.

IT 5 Impis climb one of our mountains. Right into the gauntlet. MT comes in and start physics. Grapes duct -->cav Pink Mpondo finishes Cops.
810 Upgrade both knights to cavs. Prepare by fortifying the mountains. Short rush more.

IT All 5 Impis went to a desert square but a horse appears to near 'Spices. I will need to dispatch a cav. Diamond Duct --Sword Jungle cav --> cav Zoungiun cannon --> cannon Barbport Temple--> worker

820 Though we have a Impi in 'Spice I dispatch a newly minted cav that promotes flawlessly. Now for the desert slaughter at Death Valley.

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6706/gauntlet3fp.jpg

There's 3 vet and 2 regs. Let's start with our cavs. First one promotes flawlessly, 2nd loses and promotes the Impi :crazyeye: Then a sword loses to a vet and another sword retreats the elite. One of the swords on a mountain whacks the redlined elite. Another sword retreats another impi and our elite Impi finishes flawlessly. Promote another of our impi taking out the 2/4 Impi. Threat is done and now it's time to press the issue. Pillage their saltpeter at New Zimbabwe 2.

IT a lone Impi walks into Death Valley area and an archer appears. 'Bane cav--> cav Lieya cav -->uni Whaleport cav--> bank Deathpit Uni --> cannon Grapes rax -->musket Remote rax --> temple Beatya Temple --> worker

830 Everyone has physics. Dang. Converge on New Zimbabwe 2.

IT a LB pops out redlines but takes a vet impi. 'Ovry cav --> market Tugger cannon --> temple
840 Start by taking the archer with one of our elite cavs. Win but no promo. I decide to send in a couple swords to hit the muskets first for damage. The first one takes the vet musket down to 2/4, the 2nd sword redlines and beats a reg. musket, 3rd redlines but promotes a reg musket, 4th promotes taking a 2/4 musket. Time for the cavalry charge....1st cav hit a 2/4 musket and loses redlining it, Elite cav takes a redlined musket, Vet cav finishes

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3570/sfirstcity9em.jpg

Set the new city to temple.

IT 'Remote worker --> temple Ponyland cannon --> worker Flipper temple --> worker Kulku cannon --worker
850 Move on the next Pink city. Short rush and finish the mines on the mountain and hill near the capital. Dang it won't shorten the time to finish Smith's. It's still 2 turns.

Whomp, why did you only play ten turns? why not twenty?

Whomp, why did you only play ten turns? why not twenty?
For one, most SG's are ten turns apiece after the first person plays the initial twenty. I tend to be very deliberate when I play in a SG.

Ten turns are more than enough for me since I have to actually look at city screens and count food, shields, commerce, science to see whether I've mm'd properly. Let alone trading, worker tasks, log writing and pics, short rushing, setting up the military, etc etc. This is not my SP game it's a team game.

BTW I suggest you the same in your training game. A lot of thought should go into each decision before you move stuff around.

When we hit the IA I will only play 5 at a time.

Nobody else has downloaded this save (lack of interest?), so I took it again.

I played 20 turns, but since we have gotten into the Industrial Age, each turn set after this will be 10 turns (well, except for Whomp's 5-turn sets I suppose).

And boy, a heck of a lot has happened this set. I've broken this into two posts so that I could put in a few more pics.

Turn 0 (850 AD)

I see... we are at war with pink, and everyone is still furious with us.
Smith's is still two turns away.
Deficit research on ToG happening... okay. Taking advantage of the extra GA commerce is good.
Switch Schizodeathpit to a cav - don't like building obsolete units that much.
Switch several distant cities to courthouses - don't like corruption, and GA is a good time to get rid of it once and for all.

IBT:

Lose an impi to a pink longbow (0-1).

Turn 1 (860 AD)

Schizojungle: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizounguin: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizospices: Worker -> Courthouse
We lose a very distant city to flip:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/71688869d9ec40aaa0d4bc8f3bf26b32.PNG

Kill 2 longbows with a cavs (2-1).

IBT:

Pink asks for peace, I reject them for now - their offer isn't good enough yet.

Turn 2 (870 AD)

Smith's Trading Company completed in Schizobabwe.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/ee1790dca8614849a343238d3481fd39.PNG

Schizobabwe: Smith's Trading Company -> JS Bach's Cathedral (prebuild for Newton's)
Schizobane: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizoremote 2 flips to light blue - send worker toward Schizoremote.
Schizoponyland: Worker -> Marketplace

Kill 2 longbows in the jungle by New Swazi 3 (4-1).
Kill impi near Schizospices (5-1).

IBT:

Zululand declares war on the Zulu...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/4369ac5f85e3407f841770db996851e3.PNG

Seems like Light Blue Shaka declared war on Pink. Or did it happen the other way around?
Oh boy... and there's more:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/4cfd0e1aa0604876b69d52e176265b76.PNG

Green declares war on us... and they do some damage...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/750312907fcd4a04a272b6716cd56623.PNG

Bye bye spices...

Pink attacks us, we kill a warrior and a longbowman on the defensive (7-2).

Turn 3 (880 AD)

Schizo-Beatya: Worker -> Worker
Schizokulu: Worker -> Courthouse
We get this city from flip:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/f8cb90468459406d96e86466c8d22c7a.PNG

Lose a sword to a knight by Schizospices.
Specialists hired in New Zimbabwe 2, Schizoredot, Schizobane to prevent rioting.
Science dropped by 10% to get ToG in 1 turn without excess.

IBT:

Lose a musket to a pink longbow (7-3).
A stack of green knights show up, uhoh.

Turn 4 (890 AD)

Theory of Gravity researched. Magnetism next, due in 5 turns at 80% science.
Kill a green longbow and impi at New Ibabanago 3 (9-3).
Lose a cav trying to recapture Schizospices, but kill 1 knight (10-4).
An elite cav attacks New Swazi 3, and we get a leader:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/57fececf4e2c44b3b7e6332ac70af26d.PNG

Switch Schizobabwe to cavalry, leader can rush the wonder later.
Kill 2 more defenders, and New Swazi 3 is ours (12-4).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/6a718044c8134758a07499bd20a5592e.PNG

They have several more units nearby, and I don't think we can hold the city, so I sign peace, and get 300 gold.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/5b62fcf4fbf44d769aec71fb7d53b556.PNG

Science raised to 90%, magnetism in 4 turns at 34gpt deficit.

IBT:

Green attacks with knights, we defend against 1 but lose 2 impi and a cav to the rest (12-7). They also capture 2 workers and a cannon.

Turn 5 (900 AD)

Schizounguin: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizoredot: Courthouse -> Cavalry

Kill a green horseman with a swordsman (13-7).
An impi takes our workers and cannon back.
Kill an impi with a cav and we get New Ibabanago 3 (14-7).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/e186865ea1b04f2d9ecbb2114cfab089.PNG

Kill 2 knights with cavs, but then lose 2 cavs to a cav (16-9).
Seems like we no longer have benefit of war happiness... I have to raise lux to 10%. Science dropped to 70%.

IBT:

Green Shaka attacks, killing an impi, a swordsman, and a cav while losing a cav of their own (17-12). We lose the two workers and cannon again.
Pink sends a big stack of units into our territory, I have no idea what they are up to. Do they want to break the peace treaty?

Turn 6 (910 AD)

Schizobabwe: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizobane: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizodeathpit: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizograpes: Courthouse -> Cavalry
Schizojungle: Cavalry -> Cavalry

Kill a knight with a longbow and recapture our lost units (17-12).
Kill a knight at Schizospices, but then we lose a cav (18-13).
Kill a horseman with a cav (19-13).
Science dropped to 60%, magnetism still researched in 3 turns.
Changed my mind about the leader. I use Mpande to rush JS Bach's Cathedral since we have a monopoly on Theory of Gravity and the AI can't cascade to Newton's.

IBT:

Green attacks, they lose a knight, we lose an impi (20-14).
Pink sends more units into our borders, but I think they might be going for the light blue city north of us.

continued in next post...

Turn 7 (920 AD)

We complete a wonder that a bunch of AI's are working on:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/f8d78aa4738c49fe84d8ba7ce2362b09.PNG

Schizobabwe: JS Bach's Cathedral -> Newton's University
Schizolieya: Bank -> Cavalry
Scizho-Beatya: Worker -> Worker
New Isandhlwana 3 (the light blue city) flips to us, I wonder if pink will call off their attack after this.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/075ae7ea99ec407ebba31b22664c0240.PNG

Attack and recapture Schizospices with cavs, killing 2 impi defenders and wiping out nearby units, we lose 1 cav (25-15).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/f0c69fa7d744471694d1b0bb288eb94f.PNG

Lux is back to zero, now with the spices recovered.

IBT:

Pink completes Shakespeare's Theater in Umtata, presumably from cascade.
As expected, pink units move out of our territory. Whew!
Green longbow kills our longbow (25-16).

Turn 8 (930 AD)

Schizodiamond: Bank -> Cavalry
Kill 2 green longbows with a cavs (27-16).
Drop science to 50%, still get magnetism next turn.

IBT:

Lose a cav to a green cav (27-18).

Turn 9 (940 AD)

Magnetism researched. Steam power next, science up to 80% for it to be due in 8 turns.
Schizobane: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizowhaleport: Bank -> Cavalry
Schizounguin: Cavalry -> Cavalry

Kill a green longbow with a cav (28-18).

IBT:

Cav on a mountain kills 2 attacking green cavs, and Zwelithini pops out (30-18).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/fe8b7bf5d3d04629841625117888e1d4.PNG

Turn 10 (950 AD)

Kill 2 impi defending New Bapedi 3 with cavs (32-18).
Send Zwelithini back toward the capital, where the build is now a bank.

IBT:

Lose a cav to green cav (32-19).

Turn 11 (960 AD)

Schizojungle: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizo-Beatya: Worker -> Courthouse

Schizoremote riots, we are having war weariness problems.
Kill impi defending New Bapedi 3, lose a cav to redlined green cav, and then take the city on the third try (34-20).

IBT:

Green kills a cav with a cav (34-21).
We lose our supply of silks. Apparently light blue Shaka has saltpeter now, so he won't import it from us anymore.

Turn 12 (970 AD)

Rioting in Schizobabwe, Schizobane, Schizowhaleport, New Zimbabwe 2, Schizoremote, and Schizoredot. Stupid silks... grrr...
Schizolieya: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizovry: Marketplace -> Courthouse
Schizo-Um 3: Courthouse -> Marketplace
Sell saltpeter to Orange Shaka for WM + Furs + 146g + 12gpt.
Sell magnetism to Dark Blue Shaka for WM + 51g + 4gpt, they are the only ones that don't have that tech.
Kill the cav that killed ours (35-21).

IBT:

Lose another cav to a green one (35-22).

Turn 13 (980 AD)

Our GA is over.
Order restored everywhere.
Schizograpes: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Schizounguin: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Zunguin 3: Worker -> Worker
Aww, New Swazi 3 flips to orange.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/8dad76886049418f954af98f974f1d32.PNG

Kill 2 green cavs and a musket (38-22).
Peace with Green Shaka, we get 233g + 5gpt.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/4bed720f80bf41039d3ab7b13d7ba1e4.PNG

All of the AI's are in IA now.
Raise science to 90% to get Steam Power in 3 turns.

IBT:

Green Shaka demands that we leave, and I agree.

Turn 14 (990 AD)

Schizodiamond: Cavalry -> Cathedral
Schizoredot: Cavalry -> Marketplace

Buy a worker from Light Blue Shaka for WM + 11g. Hmm, our map is worth something. I sell it around and pick up an additional 45g.

Turn 15 (1000 AD)

Schizobabwe: Bank -> Newton's University
Schizodeathpit: Cavalry -> Bank
New Ibabanago 3: Worker -> Worker
Rush Newton's with leader.
Drop science to 80%, getting steam power in 2 turns.

IBT:

Pink and Light Blue sign peace.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/348ae05fae354f05a618b232482841ef.PNG

Turn 16 (1010 AD)

We complete Newton's University in Schizobabwe:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/c855648f6b984d15a7b5b54e6208d1ff.PNG

Schizobabwe: Newton's University -> Wall Street (possible prebuild for Universal Suffrage???)
Buy a worker from Light Blue for WM + 25g.

Turn 17 (1020 AD)

Steam Power researched. Industrialization next, 9 turns at 6gpt deficit.
Schizowhaleport: Temple -> Cathedral
Schizojungle: Cavalry -> Bank
We have an iron works site! Unfortunately we will have to abandon Schizoredot for it, but the opportunity is too good to pass up:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/b297c35cda3546e6afedd263f6796aaf.PNG

I switch Schizoredot to a settler, due next turn, and plan to abandon it.

Turn 18 (1030 AD)

Schizoredot: Settler -> doesn't matter
I sell all the improvements in Schizoredot, and abandon the city.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/dc54d2865e0d452787e969df0001369b.PNG

Schizoironworks founded on the iron works spot.

Turn 19 (1040 AD)

Schizobane: Cathedral -> Worker
Schizounguin: Cavalry -> Temple
This is incredible:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/c22e15f61f644bc5a474d3f8dcd46c40.PNG

I don't think we'll hold on to that for long, so I switch all the citizens to taxmen (the city is starving anyway).
Honestly, I would still have preferred our core cities to flip back though...

IBT:

Shaka is up to something again...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/236a692e375c420bb8f2ca9bf086b7fd.PNG

Turn 20 (1050 AD)

Schizobane: Worker -> Worker
Schizoponyland: Marketplace -> Courthouse
The war is between Pink and Green. They both have vulnerable cities deep inside the other side's core - this will be interesting to watch.

Current Situation

- NEEED MORE WORKERS!!! I cannot emphasize this enough. We want to get those railroads put up ASAP.
- Consider exporting saltpeter to Light Blue Shaka - he will pay a decent price for it. We have 3 sources (not counting the source we are already exporting), so chances are slim that we will break the deal with a flip.
- Every AI seems to have a ton of gpt to spare for buying steam power, but I've kept our monopoly on it. If they demand it... well... be careful...
- Still no improvement in AI attitude, everyone is furious.
- Industrialization due in 7 turns, Wall Street in 12. I think Universal Suffrage wouldn't be a bad thing to have, even if we build it just to deny it to the AI.

The save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ2_1050AD.zip

Omg , that's impressive , your culture fliped the city with the Great Lighthouse , I never had a gift like that :))) especialy that city has a wonder .

Goodjob outhere :)

I will try to play some this weekend if no one grabs it.

@ Sima Qian: Since this is an open SG, could you add the game stats from Post #23 into Post #1? Not everyone will dig through the posts to find that data.

Remember all civs have the same people all are zulu.

Omg , that's impressive , your culture fliped the city with the Great Lighthouse , I never had a gift like that :))) especialy that city has a wonder .
Remember, culture flips like mad with no regard to whether it's your second city or your 45th city, whether or not the city has wonders, and anything else that normally effects culture flipping chances. After all, we've gotten like, 5 far-off cities from culture flip and lost 2 pretty close to our capital. In this game, culture is all-powerful.

P.S.
I'll take this save if no one else does.

Okay, no one else has taken the save. Got it.

I finished a while ago, but didn't have time to post the log. I still don't have time to post the log, so I'll try to post it this evening.

Okay, business has kept me from posting this for too long. Here it is.

Good news:
-Railroad system getting built
-Still, none of the AI's have steam.

Bad news:
-lost New schizoremote to culture flip

And the set:

Pre-turn (1050 AD):
-MM Hlobane 2: All of its 11 citizens were taxmen. :eek: it can use the 8 city squares it has without going into disorder, but is still starving. I rush the temple here so it can use its other citizens (I forgot to MM it again to do this after culture grew, though- :lol: next player can do this) http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Hlobane.JPG
-accidentally hit skip button; d'oh!

IBT:
-Green Zulu want to trade TM for TM. Not interested.
-Bane: Worker->Musket
-Hlobane 2 starves
-Hlobane 2: Temple->Musket
-New Bapedi 3: Worker->Walls

Turn 1 (1060 AD):
-notice there are many cities with no defenders. I think they could use at least one, so I change all the no-defender cities except Schizobabwe (building wall street), Schizoungin, and Schizovry(unguin and vry current builds will be done soon) to Musket.

IBT:
-diamond: Musket->Coastal Fortress
-Grape: Musket->Colloseum
-ovry: Courthouse->Musket
-barbport: Musket->rax
-New schizoremote culture flips to pink zulu

Turn 2 (1070 AD):
-decide to rename Hlobane 2 to "schizolighthouse" because of GLhouse.
-MM ironworks: It still grows next turn, and now has 2spt instead of one, slowing down ironworks time by about 150 turns (don't know exactly)!

IBT:
-whaleport: Musket->CF
-Zunguin 3: Worker->rax

Turn 3 (1080 AD):
-upgrade a couple of Impis to muskets
-Notice coal near Isipezi 3, a YZ city 3 tiles away from Zunguin. Hmm. :mischief:

IBT:
-diamond: CF->Harbor
-unguin: Temple->Musket
-Um-3: Musket->rax

Turn 4 (1090 AD):
-nothing of interest

IBT:
-bane: Musket->Courthouse
-lighthouse culture expands
-Whaleport: CF->Granary
-Ibabanago 3: Worker->rax

Turn 5 (1100 AD):
-Notice deathpit is empty but not building musket; d'oh! Switch it to musket.

IBT:
-We learn Indistrialization- set research to nationalism.
-deathpit: Musket->bank
-tugger: Musket->rax

Turn 6 (1110 AD):
zzz

IBT:
kulu: Courthouse->Musket

Turn 7 (1120 AD):
:sleep:

IBT:
-diamond: Harbor->courthouse
-unguin: Musket->courthouse
-Um-3: rax->duct

I have to go now- will post turns 8-10 this evening.

P.S.
Where is everybody? No one but me has posted for the last five days.

I was going to play this past weekend but you scooped it from underneath me again and I didn't want to duplicate turns. I can't play till Monday.

Why are you building muskets, coastal fortresses and colloseums? Not every city needs a defender. In fact, with rails you need even less.
Rax in cities that can't produce units? Can the courts pay for themselves?

Why did you choose nationalism for a tech?

Remember, I'm not the best civ player in the world. I just build stuff that looks like it needs to built, and Barracks seem important. And, as you can see, I'm not right very often. Colloseum didn't seem to need to be, but all the cities I changed were building either Colloseum, Couthouse, or Cathedral. But I'm not doing bad for a Chieftain (although I'm starting to play Warlord games) player playing on Emperor level. And I scooped it out from under you? Please. You had time to post a "got it". Mine was on the 21st. I said I would take it if no one else did by then on the 19th. Did you think that was a "got it"? Why I chose nat: Of the 4 techs I could have chosen, it seemed the best one. Plus this way we don't have to trade to get it.

Oh, and, the rest of the set:

Turn 8 (1130 AD):
-check diplo: all AI's have nat, but none have steam.

IBT:
-GZ-PZ war ends. From the looks of the map, not much happened in the war.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Peace.JPG

Turn 9 (1140 AD):
-Change remote to frigate as annoying barb galleys are nearby.

IBT:
-Bane: Couthouse->Colloseum
-flipper: Courthouse->rax

Turn 10 (1150 AD):
zzz

Here's a look at our RR system (which I hope you can see):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/railroad.JPG

For next turn:
-As you can see, Nat finishes next turn. Muskets can become rifles soon.
-We need to sell the AI steam before they get it, which will probably be during the next player's turnset. Get whatever you can from them.
-Continue building RR's until all our cities our connected- and then maybe build more...

And the save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Shaka_of_the_Zulu,_1150_AD.SAV)

-MM Hlobane 2: All of its 11 citizens were taxmen. :eek: it can use the 8 city squares it has without going into disorder, but is still starving. I rush the temple here so it can use its other citizens (I forgot to MM it again to do this after culture grew, though- :lol: next player can do this) http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Hlobane.JPG

What advantage do you get from using all the squares?
The city was going to starve anyway, whether it is 1 food short or 20 it will still lose only 1 pop point.
With 11 taxmen it would still have produced 1 shield, it would have dropped uncorrupted commerce from 2 to 1, but made up for it with 11 tax, you had 3, so overall your changes cost 7 gold for no gain. (edit - to be strictly correct 8gold cost with 1 science gain as commerce was in science)


P.S.
Where is everybody? No one but me has posted for the last five days.
They were waiting for you to post so they could comment :mischief:

Maybe we don't get an advantage, but if lighthouse grows big enough, we might. I also thought maybe we could get more gold :mischief: Apparently not, and I was too lazy to MM it back to the way it was. At least this way, it doesn't starve.

Maybe we don't get an advantage, but if lighthouse grows big enough, we might. I also thought maybe we could get more gold :mischief: Apparently not, and I was too lazy to MM it back to the way it was. At least this way, it doesn't starve.

Why dont you want it to starve?

This is a corrupt city, how is it helping our empire?

The best help it can be is supporting as many specialists as possible. Currently that is 3 specialists. If 5 grass tiles are irrigated and railed it could support 6 specialists. Whilst it doesnt have enough food to support current pop, it may as well put all citizens to specialists until it reaches a size where it has the food to support the pop.

choxorn, I think I wrote in my turnlog that I deliberately set all the citizens in Hlobane 2 to taxmen. I suppose I didn't explain clearly enough why I did that, but yes, the reason is very much what Andronicus has said: the city was going to starve anyway, and it was so corrupt that the only way it would be useful was to make it a specialist farm. You do this by irrigating and railroading every tile so that it has a minimal number of citizens harvesting food, with the rest of them as scientists or taxmen.

I would not have rush built a temple there; the city will likely flip back to pink in a few turns and we would have just wasted a bunch of gold. The lighthouse does not give us culture, and we won't get any good tiles with cultural expansion. If we do get expansion, I recommend that the temple be sold immediately.

Regarding nationalism: there are extremely few situations where I would opt to self-research nationalism. In fact, I've probably only done it once or twice excluding always war games and the nationalist variant, where researching nationalism is required as a handicap to the human player. Let's just look at what nationalism gives us, and you'll see why it's not worth it:

1. Riflemen. Personally I find this to be the single most annoying unit in the game, as the AI loves to build them, yet they're no good for us. Attack strength of 2 is worthless, and if you need them for defense it probably means you don't have enough offensive units. Infantry are only 2 techs away and they are far, far better at both defense and offense. Usually the only way I get riflemen is by upgrading muskets, pikes, spears, etc, and even then I'd much rather upgrade to infantry.
2. Mutual protection pacts & trade embargoes. This is totally pointless, as we can negotiate these agreements with the AI when they get nationalism; we do not need the tech ourselves for doing that.
3. Drafting citizens. I've only done this in a few games, and I think I also lost those. This is only necessary when you are in really awful shape, getting pounded by the AI - clearly not the situation here.
4. Mobilization. OK, I'll admit that this is a good reason to get the tech sometimes, and I've used it occasionally as well. But in our case, it is no good - we do not need huge numbers of units as we will probably try to avoid wars, and the culture penalty is going to hurt us as it makes cities more likely to flip to the AI.
5. Opens up the communism and espionage techs. I think this is often the only reason I actually bother to get nationalism at all in most of my games. But since the AI almost always researches nationalism first when they reach the Industrial Age, I can usually count on trading with them for it. And since we are going for diplomatic victory, it becomes even more important that we do not waste time with optional techs during the IA (except maybe sanitation) because it will delay our research for fission.

As for some of the other impovements - I'll admit that I build barracks in distant cities sometimes, just for the sake of having a place to heal and upgrade in times of war. But generally this is negated after rails come along.

Courthouses do have their place in this game, but they should be used carefully and are probably not going to be a priority. If a city is getting one shield or gold per turn and will likely only get up to 2 or 3 of them with a courthouse, it's not worth it - just let it build workers instead.

Colosseums, in my opinion, are the worst of the happiness improvements. They cost 2 gold in upkeep and only produce 2 happy faces. Cathedrals are very marginally worthwhile, because they produce 3 happy faces at the cost of 2 gold in upkeep, and it would take 3 gold to do the same with the lux slider. Temples are only worthwhile for cheap culture or to make cathedrals available. Because of all this effort involved, in non-cultural games I try to avoid building these at all and simply the lux slider. In this game, culture is important, but even so, colosseums are at the bottom of the list of cultural buildings.

Finally, don't be afraid to leave some cities undefended. Unless you are in monarchy or communism, where you can use units as military police, there is no reason to keep a garrison in every city, and especially not in cities deep in your territory that are not at all vulnerable to AI attack. Yes, putting units there will help prevent flips, but it also means that you lose more units if that city decides to flip anyway - so you'll have to make that call carefully.

So I hope as you become more experienced with Civ 3, you'll realize that there are certain techs that are generally not worth researching yourself because they can be acquired from the AI quite easily. For me, this usually means bronze working, monotheism, theology, astronomy, and nationalism. And I hope you also learn from this how to deal with distant, corrupt cities.

Now, with all that said, it seems like I'll be rather busy for the next few days, so may someone else please continue this game while I get hounded by miscellaneous RL matters...

Can you please stop bugging me about my n00b mistakes? You guys can do your best to fix them on your sets. At least I don't totally screw up. :cry: I only play sets of this game when no one else will take it. As you know, I still have quite a bit to learn about this game. Also, with the Hlobane thingy. What good can the gold do if the city starves every turn? If kept at tax collectors, there would be one citizen left at the end of my set. So can we please stop talking about my turnset?? :cry:

You need not take these comments personally, choxorn. Good players are always looking for ways to improve their game, and a great way to do that is to make mistakes and then have someone point out what the mistake was and how it could be fixed. In this case, there's a fair amount of valuable information here on the use of specialist cities, i.e. taxman/scientist farms. It might be worthwhile to consider the benefit of setting up such a thing in Hlobane 2. And I'm not even bringing up all the other worthy advice that Sima Qian and others have just offered.

I must admit that I had a hard time learning that cities do not have to be growing to be productive. I don't view starving as a good thing, and try to avoid it, but sometimes it can't be helped. Specialist farms are a rather recent tool for me.

Lots of things to learn from this thread, since this is no ordinary game.

Can you please stop bugging me about my n00b mistakes?
Nobody's trying to "bug" you, choxorn. If nobody told you that you'd made mistakes, you'd think you were doing the right thing and continue to make the same mistakes over and over. We're all trying to help you to slow down, ask questions, and learn to be a better player.

I'm only bugged by the fact that I made at least 5 of them. I don't want anybody else to talk about them becuase Whomp and SQ already have- I don't want it rubbed in more. ;) I'm not really taking these personally- really, I'm not.

Okay I just took a look on this SGame . ( cannot get some sleep :( )
I saw in the screenie choxorn posted , that Shizounguin building a Courthouse , and I really dont understand why , where you are at minus and you're trying to do it more worst .
as Whomp said , why should you build rax in cities that won't ever produce units . cities that will produce a Cavalary in 90 turns . so you pay 90gold for this Cavalry that probably will die soon ;) .

Guys Colosseum demand you to pay 2gpt ! what for ? I don't remmember where I saw some good player was explaining about all this stuff with city improvements .
I learned that it's not even neccessary to build Temple in every border city ,
Some of you probably will say it makes content faces , ok so raise your lux slider but sell all your temples . what I was doing , is building a Temple , waiting for culture expanding and then selling the Temple .
I still would build Library , but only in low-Corrupted cities like my Capitol , 2nd city etc ..
you better build more units , conquer lands and you'll have more gold . ( I don't like the cities that in your empire , the Orange guys )

@Whomp - is'nt it good to leave at least one guard unit in each city , to prevent riot ?

Yeah, and it's nessecary to have a defender or two per city in the AA to protect from barbs.

Oops, double post. Delete this one. ;)

@Whomp - is'nt it good to leave at least one guard unit in each city , to prevent riot ?
There are no units required in cities as MP's when you're in a republic and barbs only pop up out of darkness.
Rails allow us to run a much leaner military that is focused primarily on cavs, a few defensive units and arty (IE non raxed cities).

I'll be home tomorrow so I can try to get a set in sometime this week.

True, but one of the AI could attack from the other side of the world. And almost all of those cities were coastal.

True, but one of the AI could attack from the other side of the world. And almost all of those cities were coastal.
Not to worry till marines unless there be vikes out there :viking:
If AI lands, rails allows an immed resonse to place a couple of defenders or better still remove the intruders with attackers. Of course in this game our object is diplomatic victory so a more negotiated settlement may be in order :mischief:

Units can't attack undefended cities from the sea without marine ability?

Units can't attack undefended cities from the sea without marine ability?

Nope, you have to have marines to attack from the sea ... with the exception of the Viking berserk. (Which could make them big trouble if the AI ever figured out how to attack with them properly.) With marines or berserks, you can even stay in your transport ship and attack from there. Very handy. Without a unit with marine capability, you can shell a one tile island city to powder, and you still can't land.

Units can't attack undefended cities from the sea without marine ability?

No. They can bombard the crap out of those cities, but won't be able to attack.

The AI does like to land units next to undefended cities, but if you have rails in place that will be nothing to worry about.

Oh. Oh, and BTW I have a "comment" on the fact that you guys thought vikings might attack.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Come on, guys, this is vannila! and all the civs are Zulu!! :lol: :rotfl:

The comment re vikes was for your general information, certainly not pertaining to this game where everyone is zulu and, as you point out, not to any vanilla / PTW game. Nevertheless worth remembering when you are playing conquests

Maybe it's just pretty easy to make me :lol:

Kind of surprising that with all these "lurker comments" popping up in this thread, nobody seems willing to take the save and play a few turns :(

I thought Whomp said he was going to play? If not I might be able to grab it, but I have several other SG turns coming up very soon so would appreciate knowing soon


posted 29/05/2006
I'll be home tomorrow so I can try to get a set in sometime this week.

Feast mode here. I just finished Sgotm10 and still have husky01 on the docket. I can try Thursday.

Well if you cant play till Thur, I'll play first - consider this a got it

Played very quiet builder turns (kulcha builds ;) ).

Science
Researched Nationalism 1st IT, then electricity. Sold Steam for bulk gpt, still have monopoly on industrialisation and electricity. Currently 4 turns from Medicine. AI have researched Commie and thats all!
Suggest we get to Scientific Method for ToE, should look to prebuild (see below). Aim for free atomic / electronics on our way to fission and our UN goal.

Military
All quiet on the western front. Everyone else is in demo - we could but I dont think its worth it for the drop in culture, science and production.
I built no military, may want a few more cavs for security (and to discourage AI who mostly owe us heaps of gpt), although hopefully tanks not too far away.

Economy
Running 100% science thanks to generous AI donations for steam and a few resources with a handsome profit (being used to shortrush / cashrush culture buildings in shield poor locations).

Workers
I would have liked 2-3 times as many as I had. I built 5 or 6, bought a few from AI, but we are still badly lacking
I prioritised 1st connecting towns in our main empire (ignored remote locations), took 2 turns to complete. Then started on least corrupt cities trying to get them to size 12 and max production, also added a few to Iron Works (otherwise the game will be over before IW built)
There is much work still to be done around core esp hills, never mind all the jungle in the south (this is low priority)

Wonders
We lack a FP. My thought for best site (I havnt studied civassist though) is Iron Works - needs IW (12turns) and factory first.
'Babwe 8 turns from completing Suffrage, will have sig shield loss if switch to ToE unfortunately
'Bane 6 turns from Wall St - could switch to palace and complete ToE in 18 if my calculations are correct (158 shields in box @ 25spt) Railing more mines would speed this further, but probably research sanitation and / or corporation in interim.
Hoover pre build also req consideration - ? 'babwe after Suffrage

Culture
During my turns culture increased from 128cpt to 173cpt total 8750 -> 10282
However we are still inferior to pink and orange in culture, but we are now dismissive of DB and yellow's culture (were unimpressed). I rushed quite a number of libs and temples.
Only 1 flip in my turns - to us :D

Preturn
Note no FP - ? Iron Works a poss site, only size 3 will take a long while (IW in 63 :eek: )
Our culture has slipped significantly with respect to orange and lesser extent pink - this puts us at risk of wrong end of flips. Aim to correct ;)
Much worker activity required. Railroading core, mining around core and then consider southern jungle - have 43 workers, I'd like at least double, could always fold in after completion.
MM every town, every town put on culture or worker build except 'babwe (Suffrage)
Science to 30% and Nationalism in 1

An hour and a half later press enter ...

IT
Nationalism -> electricity
Trades
Steam to Orange for 168gpt + WM + 9g
Steam + WM to LB for 41gpt + silks + 13g
Steam + WM to pink for 34gpt + dyes + 13g
Steam to Yellow for 31gpt + 14g + WM
Steam to DB for Democracy + 1g
(could get Free Artistry from Green but I decline)
Build 2 workers and a lib (cant read my notes in which towns :blush: ), all go to worker builds
We love the chief days all over the place
Bapedi 2 joins us :D , sell rax -> temple

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Bapedi_2_joins_us.JPG


1) 1160AD
whats the caravel doing? Exploring empty ocean :confused: . Send it back (probably should have disbanded immed, but decided to disband in port)
Buy worker from pink for 27g
orange will give 152gpt +167g for indust - decide to hold monopoly a while longer
Trade salt to LB for 64g + 16gpt

IT
'bane worker -> Wall St
'lieya uni -> cath
New Zim2 lib -> temple
'ivory temple -> uni
'flipper worker -> worker

2) 1170AD
RRing

IT
lose furs deal, req 27gpt + wines to renew - I dont
'deathpit temple -> cath
'jungle temple -> cath
'spices temple -> lib

3) 1180AD
more RRing, now doing core
Trade pink coal, spices, 4gpt for incence and 44g

IT
Peace treaty with Green expires, accept straight up offer to continue
'flipper worker -> lib
New Ibab3 temple -> lib

4) 1190AD
More RRing

IT
Pink req MPP - decline
Um3 duct -> lib

5) 1200AD
zzz

IT
'tugger worker -> temple

6) 1210AD
Buy pink worker for 16g + WM

IT
'barbport lib -> worker

7) 1220AD
Buy DB worker for 27g
decr science to 70%, electricity in 2

IT
'whaleport cath -> factory
'unguin cath -> factory
New Bap3 temple -> worker

8) 1230AD
Switch all scientists to tax and still electricity in 1 @ 70%

IT
Electricity -> Medicine
'Barbport worker-> worker

1290AD
Orange have commie
Buy yellow worker for 1gpt + 9g

IT
'spices lib -> worker
New Ibab3 lib -> worker
Beatya lib -> harbour

1250AD
Trades holding value
Industrial will get 21gpt +52g pink, furs 117gpt + 237g form orange, 16gpt + 32g from DB, 1gpt +39g from LB, 46gpt +71g from yellow. Green has just got steam and is broke

The core as it now stands
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/The_core_1250AD.JPG
And on to next better player
? Whomp

Great stuff Andronicius!
I will try to get a turnset in tonite or tomorrow for sure.

With all the flips is it worth keeping some of the cavs outside the outer corrupt cities? I wonder what the flip chances are with and without MP's.

With all the flips is it worth keeping some of the cavs outside the outer corrupt cities?

Good pick. When you see the save you will notice most cavs stationed outside towns, you could probably take it a little further and keep all outside. I was reluctant to leave too tempting a target for all those AI in our debt

edit
civassist says max flip risk is less than 1% in all towns except
'lighthouse 12.8% (I think I made a mistake not starving it down to small pop ? 4, -> hire some specialists)
Bapedi 2 2.6%
New Zimbabwe 1.8%
' ironworks 1.1%
Towns with less than 1% flip risk generally require garrison of about 10 to totally eliminate risk.

My $0.02: Get rid of those barb galleys. They are really annoying.

Lurker commment:
Are you still going for a diplo win? From the save it sure looks impossible to accomplish ...

@Lord Ems. It will be a monsterous task since we can't vote for ourselves.
Do you want to step in and take a set?

As it turned out I screwed up in another SG and played the wrong save. There were 3 saves up and I grabbed the wrong one. :crazyeye;

@Whomp - Why can't you vote for yourself?

@Whomp - Why can't you vote for yourself?
Because we would have no idea which Zulu we are. :scan: :lol:

@Whomp - Why can't you vote for yourself?

because ...

The Schizophrenic Variant

The Schizophrenic variant is where you play a civ against multiple identities of itself. I've chosen Zulu in this game, purely because of the alliteration of "Schizophrenic" and "Shaka." Even though it might seem nothing extraordinary, it actually lends itself to several variant rules, most of which are self-enforcing.

1. No military alliances or trade embargoes. How are you going to ally against an enemy when they all have the same name? On the other hand, Rights of Passage agreements and Mutual Protection Pacts are still possible.
2. No slave workers. How are you possibly going to make them slaves when captured workers are of the same nationality as you?
3. Culture flips like mad. Every city will have Zulu people who admire one particular Zulu culture, but whose?
4. Impi on Impi action. When was the last time you triggered two golden ages on the same turn?
5. Ahh, and here's the kicker. We want to cure our schizophrenia somehow. Desired victory condition: Diplomatic. Guess what? You can't vote for yourself, because you don't know which Shaka is you!

Lurker commment:
Are you still going for a diplo win? From the save it sure looks impossible to accomplish ...



Difficult yes, but impossible?

We require -
1) building UN, obviously
2) knowing who our oponent will be
3) getting mpp's with as many of the other civs as poss the turn before elections (will only work if they are not currently involved in any war)
4) dow our future oponent turn before elections and let him attack us

No doubt I've forgotten some basic issue - if so now's the time to find out so we can plan our strategy

edit: there are 7 zulus left including us. We must abstain, our opponent will vote for themselves. We require at least 4 votes of remaining 5 zulus, so at min would req 4 mpp's. It could get mighty confused if our opponent has any mpp's operating, hopefully once he attacks us it will trigger all the mpp's we have set up thus cancelling any pre-existing ones.

Well, we're going to need to find a way to get those AI to like us, or they will abstain.

Well, we're going to need to find a way to get those AI to like us, or they will abstain.

I have little expirence in diplo victories, but I was under the impression that being in an alliance against a mutual foe makedly improved relations - an mpp activated alliance I would hope could achieve this.

Other modifiers for relations are donations - 100g improves relations for 20 turns I think, perhaps someone with more knowledge of how this works could comment

Any thoughts on why our relations are all so bad?

No one knows, but everyone is Furious and has been almost since the beginning of the game.

I've got the save and will play five unless I have extra time.

lurker's comment:

Guys, thisis nuts...and quite interesting indeed.

I wanted to know if anyone pointed out the fact that schizophrenia is a completely different disorder than multiple personalities? I blame pop-culture for convincing people otherwise. :mad: Anyway, keep it up!!:crazyeye:

[offtopic] William, the "official" way to do the Lurker Comment thingy is to use the [delurk] [ /delurk] tags, ommiting the space.

Preturn: What a pleasure to follow Andro. We are in phenomenal shape. Railed city to city, running 100% science and no lux. Happy citizens abound. We are getting 290gpt from other civs and we could get more if we wanted. since we're up techs on everyone. I can't believe Mania! hasn't flipped. It has 10 tiles total to work and is getting pressure on all sides.

Cash rush the uni at Grapes for 72g so we don't waste shields next turn.

IT Holy cow I haven't seen a AI army in a long time as a pink cav army rolls by one of our remote cities.
1255 OK here we go. Blue, pink and orange get medicine. Let's see what we can do.
Start with pink who has the most gold at 142g, orange furs and 92g and blue is busted.
Pink offers 146g, 45gpt, medicine, WM and a worker for industrialization.
Orange offers 90g, 86gpt, medicine, WM, furs for industrialization.
Decide to structure the deal this way...
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4971/sqtrade19xt.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3581/trade25af.jpg

Then trade around maps to Green for 30g, yellow for 15g. That's pretty much all the gold in the world.

Change Bane from Wall St. to Palace pre build for Hoovers and ToE in the capital.
Hurry the cath at Lieya for 76g (19s) since it's producing 17spt.
Short rush a frigate at whaleport for 52g (13s) to knock off a turn from the factory.
Short rush a gran at Um for 88g (22s) and switch back to lib knocking off 3 turns to 4.
Short rush a bank at Ponyland for 124g and switch back to uni. Knocks off 6 turns due in 6. After the fact I realize the city still needs a duct. That will be next.
Short rush a worker at Beatya for 28g and bring the harbor down to 10 turns.
61g +258gpt.

1260 By railing around Bane lop off a few turns from our prebuild.
Short rush a cath at Jungle for 84g due to its odd shields.
Short rush coll at Whaleport for 152g and factory in 7.
Upgrade a musket to rifle for 40g.
37g +262gpt

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1194/flip31vl.jpg

1265
Short rush a colleseum for 24g to cath build in 4 at Deathpit
Same at Unquin for 128g and get factory down to 6.
Upgrade 3 muskets to rifles for 120g
18g +259gpt

1270 Knock off 2 more turns on the Hoover prebuild by roading mining and railing a hill at Bane. Knock off another by railing another hill.
Short rush a lib at Flipper for 76g and duct is due in 3
Rush the balance of the uni at Ponyland for 36g.
Upgrade 3 more muskets to rifles since orange seems to be getting frisky.

1275
Rush the factory at Whaleport for 232g so it can start Suffrage through a Wall St. prebuild.

1280 Sci Method comes in and change capital to ToE. Takes 70s overage but it will take too long any other way. Turn off research a turn and wait for ToE to come in. Set research to AT.
Whaleport starts Wall St. for a Sufferage build.
Rush a uni for 236g for Ovry
Hurry Deathpit's cath for 44g.
77g +811gpt
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3696/toe2ez.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/6449/at8kn.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2342/electronics6vb.jpg

1285 Can get quite a bit for electricity and bankrupt another Zulu this time pink...Orange is toast so...

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2958/electricitydeal3bl.jpg

Rush a temple for 32g at Zunquin
Harbor for 120g at Um
Factory at Unquin for 160g
Cut the courthouse build to 7 with a LB rush for 124...shoot forgot which city but it has potential.
Wow this is a big flipper for blue. Ow...
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3136/flip23ny.jpg

1290 Rush temple for 80 at Tugger, harbor at Beatya for 56g and Flipper for 128g, Remote temple for 8g

1295 More rushing...

1300 Lose our dyes but we'll still get WLTKD. More rushing and stuff. We still have a lot of tiles to develop but most of what is developed is railed. We can always switch Sufferage to Bane if we prefer and delay Hoovers. Either way will work but I don't think WW will be an issue.

Wow, that set ruled! Okay guys, proceed with plan diplomatic victory.

If no one else will take this, I will. It's been 4 days- and no got it.

It has now been 6 days without a "got it" posted. I'll post mine soon.

And here it is. Got it. I hope I don't screw up too much. :lol:

And It's finished. I can't post it right now, but it is.

And now I can post it. Feel free to point out the mistakes I know I made. :crazyeye:

Pre-Turn (1300 AD):
-I like what Whomp has done with city names. I now rename a few:
-rename New Bapedi 3 to "Schizopedi"
-rename New Ibabanago 3 to "Schizobanago"
-rename New Isandhlwana 3 to "Schizowana"
-everything looks great, so I hit enter.

IBT:
-I see the Pink cav army that Whomp mentioned.
-Lighthouse: Worker->Worker (nothing better to build)
-spices: Worker->rax (will change to something else if anything better to build)
-barbport: Worker->Frigate (nothing better to build)
-Zimbabwe 2 culture flips to us. It's just as corrupt as our other remote cities.
-Zulu are building Uni. Suff.

Turn 1 (1305 AD):
-Not much. Units fortify, workers RR.

IBT:
-Agreement with LB (I think) Zulu ends (we gave salt, they gave 16 gpt). I renew it like this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/deal.JPG
-ironworks: The Iron Works->Factory

Turn 2 (1310 AD):
-same as last turn.

IBT:
-Jungle: Cavalry->Factory
-unguin: Coal Plant->Granary (Don't remember why I did this- maybe it was the fact it took only 2 turns)
-Zulu building Uni. Suff.

Turn 3 (1315 AD):
-RP comes in next turn. Science slider... all the way down to 20%!

IBT:
-An agreement with Pink Zulu ends (they gave Incense, we gave spices and 4gpt) ends. And they won't renew it.
-We learn RP: set research to Corporation and move science back to 100%.
-Folozi: Worker->Worker
-Front riots
-ponyland: Aqueduct->Bank
-ovry: Cav->Factory
-beatya: Worker->Arty

Turn 4 (1320 AD):
-Check how much rubber we have. We have 1 connected, and about 3 unconnected. For now.
-Trade with Pink Zulu. This is a good trade, right?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/deal2.JPG
Set research to refining.
-Check Military advisor. We are weak compared to 2 Zulus (probably Pink and Orange), average comapred to 2 zulus (probably Yellow and Green), and Strong comapred to 2 zulus (probably LB and DB).
-I change an unhappy dude in front to taxman.
-Ah, the incredible RP worker speed. I'm running out of things for them to do!

And I am out of time. Will post the rest tomorrow. I wonder how many mistakes I made? :crazyeye:

That looks like a fine set Chox. The only question is whether you could've eeked out a few more coins rather than taking Free artistry but that's really minor. I would also trade around Corporation as much as you can since it loses value when you pick it up.

Truly, your set sounds like your improving a lot.

Thanx Whomp! I've learned quite a bit about the game from this SG. And Now, for the rest of (or at least, some more of) the set:

IBT:
-DB Zulu want to exchange Communism for Electricity and 660 gold :lol: Uh... no.
-babwe: Factory->Hydro Plant
-deathpit: Cavalry->Factory
-grapes: Cavalry->Arty
-unguin: Granary->Arty

Turn 5 (1325 AD):
-While looking at the other civs cities via the espionage screen (and seeing how much the current investigation cost was), I accidentally investigate Isandhlwana, the Orange Zulu capital. What's this? Corruption and Waste in a capital??

IBT:
-The Yellow Zulu think I'll accept this trade:
WM and Sci Method for WM. Sorry, I'm not that stupid, Yellow.
-Whaleport: Wall Street->Hydro Plant
-diamond: Cavalry->Factory

Turn 6 (1330 AD):
-Workers are running out of things to do.

IBT:
-Middle: Worker->Worker
-unguin: Arty->Hydro Plant
-Intombe, a city next-door to Remote and Whomper, culture flips to us. It gives us some Iron and some silks.

Turn 7 (1335 AD):
-Do some upgrading:
-4 cannons to Artillery for 320 gold
-6 rifles, 1 musket, and 2 Impi to Infantry for a total of 460 gold
-Rename Intombe to "schizombe"

IBT:
-bahading: Worker->rax as it has nothing useful to build.
-ironworks riots
-pedi: Worker->rax for same reason as bahading

Turn 8 (1340 AD):
-citizen in Ironworks gets a job in the tax buisness

IBT:
-remote: Worker->rax (you know why)
-banago: Worker->rax

Out of time again. Hopefully, the whole set I can post this afternoon.

Chox--there's no need for hydro plants if we get Hoovers. If you see this please change those builds.

I know- but I didn't realize that until after the set. Oh, and speaking of the set:

Turn 9 (1345 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-babwe: Hydro Plant (next player should sell this when we get Hoover's)->Infantry
-front revolts-again?

Turn 10 (1350 AD):
-Refining comes in next turn, so I decrease science to... 70%.
-Solve happiness problem in front- I can easily see that one clown is better than two taxmen.

And that's it. There is almost no improvements left to build as I have been trying to find ones for my workers to do- and I succeeded. I think we need to find something else for them to do. Another thing we need is Sanitation so we can get Hospitals.

Here's the 1350 AD Save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/SQ2,_1350_AD.SAV)

:bump: Anyone out there?

This thread has a huge lack of interest. If no one appears here, we could do this:

Play order:
Whomp
choxorn
Whomp
choxorn
Whomp
choxorn
Whomp
choxorn

I mean, where is everybody?

Is this still an open SG?

Yes, but Whomp and me are the only ones who have posted on it for the last two weeks.

Damn double post! Well, I can say more: As for my previous post, I just said that in because Whomp and me are the only ones currently in this "building".

@ CB its open - please feel free to play a set if you've got up to speed. Remeber the VC id diplomatic and we cant vote for ourselves

Now, with all that said, it seems like I'll be rather busy for the next few days, so may someone else please continue this game while I get hounded by miscellaneous RL matters...
Guess he's still occupied, I've also had a busy RL time, hopefully will play a set next week

I'll play a set if you need.

Is that a got it?

Is the save still up for grabs or does someone have it?

After the next player posts his turnset, maybe I'll play one too, to keep it alive.

no one seems to have it, Mirc, so if you want it, you got it.

Okay, got it.

I'll have a concert at the radio hall (from Bucharest) tonight, so I'm not sure if I will be able to play today.

The concert went great, but it's too late so I will play tomorrow :(

The concert went great, but it's too late so I will play tomorrow :(
Concert?

You went to play or listen?

sigh. :( (It has been years decades since I went to hear live music (excluding family related stuff).

I played. ;)