Please post all official instructions in the Instruction Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168375).


Turn 7 - 3720BC
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7518/civ4screenshot00335on.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00335on.jpg)

Should Shadow Tiger check out those hills? Or continue downriver? Or make a big circle around our capital?

Warrior Movement I suggest: NE Followed By SE (Keeping on the hills)

I am compiling the two possiblities for the Domestic Office as we speak :)

Alright we have two options to decide on and they need to be decided ASAP

Before I start I personally choose option 2 but don't let that bias what you think. (Option 1 is what is presented in the turn orders right now in the Domestic Office Turns orders thread)

Option 1:
Grow to size 2:
Spend 2 turns micromanaging to get more hammers so that the warrior gets produced in 3560 B.C.
Follow up with Worker (12 Turns)

Option 2:
Grow to size 2 then keep two Citizens on Floodplains growing to size 3 6 turns later, with a micromanage of one citizen on the last turn to produce the warrior on the same turn that the city grows (3440 B.C.)
Follow up with worker (10 Turns)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Either way we will research pottery after the wheel (the discussion for what will be enxt will follow)


Please fee lfree to add to this list of pros or cons, but unless I get a strong argument for option 1, I will change the turn orders to suit option 2 tommorow.

Option 1:
Pros:
gain 1 worker turn(3080B.C. Vs 3040B.C.)
gain 3 exploration/defence turns with the warrior (3560B.C. Vs. 3440B.C.)

Cons:
Loss 9 commerce (actually 7 ;) when you count the cottage comming out oen turn sooner)
City is at size 2 and a bit when worker comes out

Option 2:
Pros:
City at size 3
Gain of 9 commerce (well technically only 7 ;) )
(nets us pottery one turn sooner)

Cons:
Loss 1 worker turn
Loss 3 exploration/defense turns

I think option 2 is best since we are getting more commerce and that will mean greater research.

How about...

Option 3:
Grow to size 4 and build a second warrior before starting the worker.
We don't have any amazing resources to improve, so I don't see a need to rush the worker.

I'd like to cast my non-existant vote for option 3.

The more commerce we can get out of the gate, the better. Commerce is an advantage of ours, and we need to milk it to the maximum. (that eliminates option 1, imo)

My gut instinct is that 3 is the best for two reasons:
1) As noted, we don't have any amazing resources that we're in a huge hurry to hook up.
2) In MP games - knowing the lay of the land, Identifying key resources and choke points, and meeting other civs early is an even BIGGER advantage than it is in single player.

Bottom line: option 3 looks a bit more attractive. (But option 2 would be swell also)

Option 3, for the reasons General_W listed.

It is really difficult to over-emphasize the value of knowing more of the map than your neighbors.

Hi,

depending on what we will research next, I think waiting too long with building the worker might be harmful. We have one resource to improve already (the rice), and while it's not the best of all resources, it will be our tile with the most food. We also want to have a mine on the hill(s) once the city has reached its maximum size (which will happen quite fast, given our high food start), and I still suspect we will discover more resources to improve once we know BW or AH (I guess we will go for BW pretty soon). And last but not least, our early run for Pottery only makes sense if we start to build cottages soon, otherwise it was a wasted early tech.

So overall, a worker would have a *lot* to do, and I would advocate to build him ASAP and not wait until size 4.

-Kylearan

Turn 8 - 3680BC
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2880/civ4screenshot00349vs.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00349vs.jpg)

We have a goody hut!

We have a goody hut!

Hmm! To pop or not to pop...that is the question...

What are the chances of raising a barb in Civ4?

either it is good to pop the hut, do it, take the risk man BE A REBEL!! :D
if there is a barb we have the hill to defend on, thats a 20% bonus if memory serves me right (it normally doens't)

I don't know exactly about the chances, but I definately think we should take the risk - the potential benefits are just too good!

Yeah - pop that hut! :goodjob:

IMO the risk is well worth it. The odds of getting a bad guy X the odds of the bad guy beating our warrior that pops is pretty slim.

Of course I have lost more then one game against the computer though dumb bad luck early.

Hmm that was my first post about the actual game.

Pop the Hut, No risk no reward!!!!

We can get that second warrior out faster if it happens to be bad news (less than 20% chance)

As for city growth I will put up a chart tonight in excel format

You will see putting the worker out at size 3 does start to outwiegh worker at size 4 in commerce over the long haul.

Ig you go here

BREAKDOWN OF GOODY HUT PROBABILITIES (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3779304&postcount=19) :)

We See:

High Gold: 10%
Low Gold: 20%
Map: 10%
Warrior: 10%
Scout: 5%
Experience: 5%
Healing: 5%
Teach: 10%
Weak Barb: 15%
Strong Barb: 5%

Which means 20% chance of Bad, 80% chance of good I Say go for it ;)

Engineer Technical Report: Sicne out unit is uninjured that 5% chance is taken out the creating a base of 95 and not 100:

High Gold: 10.53%
Low Gold: 21.05%
Map: 10.53%
Warrior: 10.53%
Scout: 5.26%
Experience: 5.26%
Healing: 5.26%
Teach: 10.53%
Weak Barb: 15.79%
Strong Barb: 5.26%

So Technically it is a 21.05% chance of it beeing a barbarian :p

(However and this is unconfirmed, I don't think you can pop a barb on the first hut (I never have ;) )

Please go Here To read up on Option 2 (grow to size 3) vs option 3 (grow to size 4) before making our first worker :)

General Forum Office of Domestic Party (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162619&page=2)

The odds are good check the hut!

You've got my vote. Let's pop the hut. Great discussion, team!

:D

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3193/civ4screenshot00361yg.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00361yg.jpg)

Cool.

So do we see any horses anywhere?

Turn 9 - 3640BC
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9234/civ4screenshot00381ax.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00381ax.jpg)

No horses in sight. But this is where having a 2nd warrior is really useful, we can explore twice the area before we have to panic and research Archery or Iron Working.

Here are some screenies taken after our last move :) For our teammates who don't have the game

Well after analyzing the map more My 2 cents for the warrior movement on the next two turns is SE SE to hit that grassland hill with forests which will expose the eastern coast, (the North is all coast) and S to the plain hill although good for one turn is limiting on a two turn exploration.

@ Memphus - Thanks for those screenshots. I hope there are more people besides me who benefit from them :)

Regarding Warrior Movement:
SE-SE looks good to me, but why do you assume that the North is all coast? Is it based on the existence of Clams? Do clams preclude an isthmus to another lobe of land?

I only ask in the interest of holding us to smart moves ;)

If you have a really bright monitor, you can see the outline of the coast under the blackness.

Here's a better screenshot.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4698/civ4screenshot00406qq.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00406qq.jpg)

I think a better move would be south to the hill. The 2-tile vision from the hill may expose the tiles 3-east as coast too. In any case, exploring a ring around our capital should be a high priority.

Really the best thing we can do it explore and try and search for some fertile grounds that can be useful for our expansion.

Turn 9 - 3640BC
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3725/civ4screenshot00410wq.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00410wq.jpg)

We need to decide whether Shadow Tiger goes SE to explore the coast, or SW to explore the river.

Personally I think S, SE to the grassland hill but that is straying pretty far away from our capital. If we did do this that would eb as far East as I would want him to go before making a Western Return.

Out Other warrior is 6 (Although the build says 7) turns away from being completed, so that is something to keep in mind (And I assuming he will venture off in the opposite dirrection)

S sounds good.

Turn 11 - 3560BC
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4438/civ4screenshot00433po.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00433po.jpg)

So is it SW or SE?

I like SE this turn, then come back around Capital City.

I hate to pass up a Hill opportunity, personally.

So I'd vote SE.

go south along the river

THe hill is the most efficent move I would think. The river is great and all but SE to the hill gets more bang for the buck

I also vote SE to the hill.

Turn 12 - 3520BC
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3352/civ4screenshot00461iz.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00461iz.jpg)

Bears are 50% stronger than warriors. The 50% forest defense bonus makes it a fair fight, but it's still very risky to tangle with a bear in the early game.

Well there is a mixed bag. A hut :D and a bear :(

Well I will always vote for head to the hut if we can.

Wow - there is more coast to our South-East. This map is starting to look like one of those "Hub and Spoke" maps. Maybe Sirian based his work off that as a starting point? Or maybe we're on an Island? That'd be crazy... but seems unlikely.

Anyway - we're already starting to get a better idea of our surroundings... way to go team! :goodjob:

Now... let's just hope our Bear Insurance is all paid up.

To me it seems the most logical to move SW to the open grass.

That allows for a move of South next turn for the hut, But a watchful eye will have to be kept for where the bear moves on the interturn.

If it indeed is a RNG(i.e. animals move randomly and don't favor trees) for the bear movement he sees the following possibilies

N,NW,NE,S,SW,SE,E,W

For a possibility of 8 moves.
Since a Bear has one movement point

Only if he moves NW, W or SW (which Dave should be able to observe on the interim) would we not be able to get the hut on the following turn without risk.

So that gives us a 5/8 or 62.5% that the Bear will move away from us.

(which is better than the 50% chance on the forest of dieing, well actually it is higher due to an animal bonus not to mention a certain % assigned to the animal possibility of not attacking)

So My opinion is to The SW for US :)

I like the way you think, Memphus ;)

At this point in the game, I tend towards the conservative. Losing an explorer here would be devastating. Measured against the payoff, attacking is simply not worth it. SW!

Now... let's just hope our Bear Insurance is all paid up.

If not, grin and bear it. :mischief:

:lol:


:crazyeye:

Turn 13 - 3480BC
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4958/civ4screenshot00488qq.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00488qq.jpg)

The bear couldn't find us. :D

Yaay! [party]

Now we can pop that next hut! :goodjob:

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1218/civ4screenshot00497ey.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00497ey.jpg) http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9120/civ4screenshot00620ri.th.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00620ri.jpg)

The hut gives us Writing :D, and a lion wounds our warrior. :nono:

Writing? What Wow :) , Our Huts Pops Are Amazing!!!!

Yea couldnt ask for much more then we are getting except maybe a settler :-)

The Huts here are really advanced!:cool:

Don't Forget big turn comming up in the city :)

Turn 14 3440 B.C.

Department of Industry (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162615)
Continue Building Warrior
******************************
Keep Citizen On Floodplains Tile (+3 :food: +1 :gold:)
Change 1 Citizen to a 1 :food: 2 :hammers: tile (i.e. Plains forest)
******************************
Department of Economy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162609)
Continue :science: BronzeWorking

Department of the Interior (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162613)
Not Applicable this turn
Department of Great People (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162612)
Not Applicable this turn

I won't be able to play the game until I get home in 9 hours. Would anyone be able to play sooner?

I am also at work until 5:30 central time ( 7 hours from now, 9 from DaveMcW post) so I can play it then if need be.

Either way we haev until 12:00 tonight roughly
so I say we can jsut wait for DaveMcW to play since there is specil Domestic orders for thsi turn that can't get missed :)

Turn 14 - 3440BC
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9899/civ4screenshot00680ud.th.jpg (http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00680ud.jpg)

Even with the forest bonus our injured warrior is weaker than the lion. I suggest we run rather than fight.

Well in that case to me the most logical move is to the SE so at least we can expose the coast, and then start to make our way back.

Don't forget next turn we have a new unit to move around :goodjob:

Personally I'd rather head NW for the safety of our culture radius. As soon as the animals leave us alone, let the warrior rest and heal back to full health.

Yeah that's true safe it better than sorry, :) , but isn't there still a bear in the NE somewhere:rolleyes: :sad:

NW is good, since we will be going back around the capital with the warrior anyway.

Peronally I would go NW as well to heal up when I get a sec. Losing the warrior if the lion follows would be kind of a disaster.

Turn 15 - 3400BC
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8135/civ4screenshot00707is.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00707is.jpg)

We now have 2 warriors to play with.

Turn 16 - 3360BC
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8905/civ4screenshot00723cd.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00723cd.jpg)

Nice to have no animals for a change.

Turn 17 - 3320BC
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1667/civ4screenshot00777yg.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00777yg.jpg)

We have another good hut! Maybe we will get Mathematics? ;)

Dark Puma gets 5 exp from the hut - that's 2 melee promotions (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/promotions/). Should we take them now, or wait until we need to fight something?

Also, Shadow Tiger is at 1.9 strength (healing at 0.2/turn). Is it worth waiting the extra turn to reach full health?

Well I think Shadow Tiger should get on his way, :)

As for Dark Puma I think we should take either Woodsman 1 & 2 as soon as we get near forests for the double speed exploration.

Not To mention he can become a barbarain trap later on by fortifing on hills/forest.

Now That I look at it we should take Both Woodsman next turn then Go NW to the forest, from there DaveMcW can make the best choice for expanding our search :goodjob: (I am thinking SW, since I believe that is a forest on the horizon = 2 moves the following turn. Ideally your warrior becomes a scout ;)