Has anyone seen this? If you did, do you agree with the choices?

I only saw two minutes of the riot one, can't remember name ATM.

I didnt see it. What were they, in order?

I saw a few of them; there were some good ones in the mix. Although I think it would be pushing it a bit to say that British settlers killing Pequots in Connecticut was very unexpected.

Can you post a full list?

i saw a few of them...and one of them was wrt my thesis topic in college; ie - the transition from McKinley to TR and America's entry onto the world stage.

iirc, the show highlighted McK's assasination and TR's ascension.

Sounds great. But what were the days they came up with please? This thread tells us nothing really, so far.

here's the exact list:
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1627/10days3yj.jpg

in order:
- Pequot Indian massacre of 1637: claims to have been the first case of land grabbing/extermination of native americans.
- Shay's Rebellion: specifically, the testing of the authority of the feds in 1786
- the California gold rush of 1848 and 1849; ie expansion
- the Battle of Antietam; a bloody, bloody day in US history
- The Homestead Strike; revolting & striking workers square off vs federal agents in 1892
- Murder at the Fair; President McKinley is assasinated at the Pan American Expo in 1901 in Buffalo & Teddy Roosevelt takes over and re-shapes American foreign policy (as well as somedomestic policies)
- Scopes; this covers a landmark court case which paved the way for the argument for and against the role of science and religion in govt.
- Einstein's Letter; a letter written to FDR in 1939 declaring that Hitler was seeking 'The Bomb'
- When America Was Rocked; Elvis Presley's appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1956
- Freedom Summer; the 3 murdered civil rights activists in Mississippi

this list is sort of subjective. i mean, i agree w/ some of them but there are probably others that could be put onto this list as well...

And they left out the day that Independence was declared (amidst fighting) in that square in Philly you took me to?

Subjective alright :lol:

Thanks for the list btw.

I think the list was supposed to avoid the well known and important dates in american history and concentrate on lesser know but equally important items in terms of influence.

And they left out the day that Independence was declared (amidst fighting) in that square in Philly you took me to?

Subjective alright :lol:

Thanks for the list btw.
no problem mate :)

and yeah, that could probably rank up there. :crazyeye:

one event that i think should be on the list is FDR's response to the great depression. few realize how close the US was to an agrarian revolution. not since the US Civil War had the US been so close.

FDR's response crystalized the federal govt's authority and responsibility to aid her peoples by enacting a series of social welfare systems that are the foundation of today's federal safety nets (ie the New Deal programs & Keynesian economic philosophies [deficit spending]).

Some of these "days" are stretching it a bit. The History Channel is owned by A&E Television Network which is partially owned by ABC Television. ABC Television is wholly owned by the Walt Disney Company. So please disabuse yourselves of the notion that the History Channel has anything to do with history. It is all about entertainment. End of rant; thankyou.:p

Anyway,

I have read the Einstein letter and all it says (among other things) is that Germany halted the export of uranium from its recently acquired Czechoslovakian mines. FDR and Einstein had a long correspondence so it's not as if a worried Einstein wakes up in the middle of the night to suddenly pen a dire warning to the President.

I watched Elvis on the Ed Sullivan Show; but I would hardly consider it to be one of the more memorable days in my life. My parents hated Elvis so of course to me, whatever else he was, he was cool.

I saw the Pequot one and the Einstein Letter one. I thought they were both well done, but the one on Einstein was more interesting, IMO. I also still have Scopes Trial and McKinley Assasination to watch...I'll get around to it eventually.

Only saw the Einstein episode. But I'm wondering whether or not the Scopes Trial is of equal importance to the others. My impression was that that trial changed very little; or perhaps more correctly stated, that the trial demonstrated how some things in history are difficult to change ...

Some of these "days" are stretching it a bit. The History Channel is owned by A&E Television Network which is partially owned by ABC Television. ABC Television is wholly owned by the Walt Disney Company. So please disabuse yourselves of the notion that the History Channel has anything to do with history. It is all about entertainment. End of rant; thankyou.:p

Anyway,

I have read the Einstein letter and all it says (among other things) is that Germany halted the export of uranium from its recently acquired Czechoslovakian mines. FDR and Einstein had a long correspondence so it's not as if a worried Einstein wakes up in the middle of the night to suddenly pen a dire warning to the President.

I watched Elvis on the Ed Sullivan Show; but I would hardly consider it to be one of the more memorable days in my life. My parents hated Elvis so of course to me, whatever else he was, he was cool.
heh...i often find History Channel programing to be from the "Dept of Redundancy Dept" as they repeat, repeat, repeat until they finally get to the dang point.

i prefer the Military Channel programming actually as it offers some more sophisticated and lesser known stuff in comparison to the History Channel. however, i think that the "10 Days" special is sort of neat despite some obvious ommissions.

i would think that Nagasaki and Hiroshima would rate higher on my own list rather than Einstein's letter.

Elvis was (still is actually) one cool dude but i don't know if he deserves to be on this list.

what about December 7, 1941? that was, in the words of our beloved FDR, a "day which will live in infamy".

how about January 30, 1969? the Tet Offensive forever changed the way in which Americans viewed war...

and in the modern sense, September 11, 2001 represented a collosus shift from the post-cold war era to this new age 'War on Terrorism'

and finally, to a lesser extent, i would suggest Spring 1918 when John "Blackjack" Pershing snubbed the french and British high commands and insisted that American troops in Europe be under American command and not under that of a supreme allied commander. this, imo, solidified the US as an independently acting world power.

Odd to bizarre.

Einstein's letter I might agree with. If that had not been written, then the whole subject of nuclear power would be vastly different. The war compressed the research and the bomb polarized the politics.

The McKinley assassination is also good. Roosevelt was wildly different from a whole generation of Presidents after the Civil War. Its also hard to argue with the discovery of California gold.

But,

Antietem as a summary of the whole Civil War? NOT. The day Lee refused command of the Federal Army would be better.

Where are the significant documents? The opening of the Constituional Convention, for example.

How about the Louisianna Purchase?

No love for Marbury v Madison? Scopes is FAR from the most significant courtroom case in history. If you must be political, why not Brown v BOard of Education?

7 December 1941?

4 July 1776?

J

i prefer the Military Channel programming actually as it offers some more sophisticated and lesser known stuff in comparison to the History Channel.

The Military Channel has yet to make it out to our neck of the woods yet. They are owned by the Discovery Channel who have also received a good deal of criticism recently about "infotainment" - think Monster Garage and American Chopper.

however, i think that the "10 Days" special is sort of neat despite some obvious ommissions.

i would think that Nagasaki and Hiroshima would rate higher on my own list rather than Einstein's letter.

Elvis was (still is actually) one cool dude but i don't know if he deserves to be on this list.

what about December 7, 1941? that was, in the words of our beloved FDR, a "day which will live in infamy".

how about January 30, 1969? the Tet Offensive forever changed the way in which Americans viewed war...

and in the modern sense, September 11, 2001 represented a collosus shift from the post-cold war era to this new age 'War on Terrorism'

and finally, to a lesser extent, i would suggest Spring 1918 when John "Blackjack" Pershing snubbed the french and British high commands and insisted that American troops in Europe be under American command and not under that of a supreme allied commander. this, imo, solidified the US as an independently acting world power.

I would add the Boston Massacre (March 5, 1770). It is rightly considered to be the spark that ignited the War of Independence.

I would not add the Tet Offensive (which started in 1968, by the way). If I had to pick something from Vietnam I would go for The Tonkin Gulf Incident (July 31, 1964) which propelled us into war, a moment which I think is more important than Tet which was just one more station of the cross on America's long Vietnam Via Dolorosa. :sad:

As we agreed, junk Elvis. But what about the launching of Beatlemania (February 6, 1964) with their arrival at JFK.:eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek:

December 7, 1941. A defining date and moment.

November 22, 1963. One of the few times in my life that I can actually remember what I was doing for the entire day. Unless you lived that day, I don't think you can understand what an impact it had on the nation.

The list seems to have ignored anything to do with civil rights. :gripe:

September 11, 2001. Perhaps too obvious and too recently painful. :cringe:

Cuban Missile Crisis (October 16, 1962). Perhaps the only time in my life I ever really worried about nuclear war and the balance of power. :(

I can't see why they chose Antietam. Unless of course it's because Gettysburg has been done to death. Why not the firing on Fort Sumter?

The Battle of the Little Bighorn (July 25, 1876). Militarily insignificant but a stunning wound to the national psyche.

I can't see why they chose Antietam. Unless of course it's because Gettysburg has been done to death. Why not the firing on Fort Sumter?

Antietam was the bloodiest single day battle was it not?

I'd probably would have picked Shiloh (although it was over two days unfortunately) also since it introduced the two sides to warfare on a completely different scale than had been seen before in the US.

Antietam was the bloodiest single day battle was it not?

I think the significance of a battle, at least within the context of the Discovery Channel list, is not in its bloodiness (certainly a yardstick) but in its political and military effect on the war.

You would have to assume so yes

What about the sinking of the Lusitania? That put us further out of isolationism than did the Roosevelt Corollary

I say McKinley's assassanation, the California gold rush, and the Homestead Strike.
What about the sinking of the Lusitania? That put us further out of isolationism than did the Roosevelt Corollary
Actually, I would place the Zimmerman Telegram ahead of the Lusitania, as the telegram brought us into WWI. However, we were still isolationist after the war and during WWII, so I don't think that it is very important.

What about the sinking of the Lusitania? That put us further out of isolationism than did the Roosevelt Corollary

That's a good one.

I can't see why they chose Antietam. Unless of course it's because Gettysburg has been done to death. Why not the firing on Fort Sumter?

Because of the CSA's not-win at Antietam, UK and France decided not to back CSA. Furthermore, it gave Lincoln the opportunity to introduce the Emancipation Proclamation, which was a nail in the coffin for international support for CSA.

i think that this question regarding whether historians should remain "above politics" is really just a matter of remaining unbiased.

while i agree that it is wholely natural for all human beings to have some sort of political belief, i feel that it is not good to intertwine a political agenda when reporting the facts. i mean, i was banged over the head while in college to not sprinkle my papers and senior thesis with political views...and in most cases i didn't nor did i have any inclination to do so. however, my professors (both history & poli sci) were quite clear that they did not want any work submitted that may have an 'agenda'.

now, don't get me wrong...the pundits ought to be able to critique whatever political analysis is in front of them. however, it seems to me that it is absolutely crucial that a historian remain as unbiased as possible in order to make a clear-headed and rational estimation.

in the immortal words of Brian Bosworth, Hulk Hogan, and Sir Charles Barkley..."anything less would be uncivilized!" :p

Where's the day we entered the nuclear age by turning Hiroshima to beaded glass?

I didn't watch many of them, but I caught a couple of minutes some of them.

That was covered by "Einstein's Letter," in which the physicist signs a letter to FDR encouraging a nuclear weapons program lest the Nazis build a Bomb first.

7 December 1941?

4 July 1776?



remember, it is "unexpected" days the changed America. both those days obviously affected the US for years to come, but everyone knows about Pearl Harbor and the signing of the Dec. of Independence. this series was aiming to show the more obscure moments in our history that changed our country.

remember, it is "unexpected" days the changed America. both those days obviously affected the US for years to come, but everyone knows about Pearl Harbor and the signing of the Dec. of Independence. this series was aiming to show the more obscure moments in our history that changed our country.
a select few knew of pearl harbor (or at least that the japanese were planning something) but the rest knew nothing...

and i would even venture to say that the declaration of independence was indeed "unexpected"...at least as far as the British were concerned. also, it should be noted that many, many colonial revolts through the 19th and 20th century used the American model of rebellion as their template.

He means everyone knows of them NOW. Not when they happened, Justo.

He means everyone knows of them NOW. Not when they happened, Justo.
sure we all know of them now...however, gauging the significance of an event's impact upon the development/evolution/devolution/etc of the US is what i think the programme is intended to uncover; not the little known facts. all of those on the history channel list are very, very well known imo.

and 'whats w/ all of these Jersey people? :scan:

They're not well known if you go talk to the average american. I bet half of Americans wouldn't even know why we celebrate July 4 :blush:

its sad warman, but true. I saw a survery recently, and this is really hard to believe, but about a third of hte peopl they intervewed said the sun went around the earth, and a quarter didnt know either way!

I watched all the episodes, and each was interesting in their own way.

I think the criteria they ultimate chose was: events whose repercussions were not immediate but ultimately significant. Thus Shay's Rebellion leads to the Constitution, McKinley's assassination leads to TR's transformative Presidency, Antietam leads to Emancipation in the rebel states and ends any real hope of European recognition (this last one was only realized in hindsight).

Things like Pearl Harbor, Lusitania, DoI, etc., were more immediately obvious in their effects and thus not as Unexpected. And, of course, only Hancock signed on the 4th ;)

The Elvis one was actually very well-argued as to its cultural effect.

There's always arguments for such a series like this, but I think they provided a nice mix of angles (Science, Culture, War, Politics) and were largely successful. The only misstep imo was the Scopes Trial insomuch that it's the weakest in terms of meeting the criteria.

I would have replaced Elvis with the day the integrated circuit was invented
in 1959. Without that, no home computers, no Internet as we know it. And
it remains obscure to most poeple to this day.

I would have replaced Elvis with the day the integrated circuit was invented
in 1959. Without that, no home computers, no Internet as we know it. And
it remains obscure to most poeple to this day.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing! :hmm:

I think with Scopes and Einstein being in there, the circuit would've been scientific overkill. I would've replaced Scopes instead of Elvis.

I agree with replacing Scopes; perhaps with day Prohibition was passed.

As to my point about the chip : It was not intended to be judgemental,
just noting without ICs, none of this stuff would be here. It's a matter
of individual opinion on good thing/bad thing.

I’d have to say that it seems the History Channel is attempting to bring to light some of the ‘not so famous, but important’ days in US history.

IMHO:

- Pequot Indian massacre of 1637
More of a tragic day…

- Shay's Rebellion
Not the first (or last) time the citizens protested government authority…

- California Gold Rush
I’d put the Louisiana Purchase here instead…

- Battle of Antietam
This battle ‘brought the war home to America’, but the Gettysburg / Vicksburg combo sealed the Confederacy’s fate…

- The Homestead Strike
More protest, geez…

- Murder at the Fair; President McKinley is assassinated & Teddy Roosevelt takes over and re-shapes American foreign policy
Good one here. Teddy’s involvement in the Treaty of Portsmouth let the US emerge as a player in world diplomacy…

- Scopes; landmark court case which paved the way for the argument for and against the role of science and religion in govt.
And the country’s been going down the toilet morally ever since…

- Einstein's Letter; letter written to FDR in 1939 declaring that Hitler was seeking 'The Bomb'
Scary, yes, but wouldn’t Pearl Harbor fit better in this era?

- When America Was Rocked; Elvis Presley on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1956
Cool, but important and history changing? Not to me. I love the King and rock n’ roll, but compared to the rest of the list…

- Freedom Summer; the 3 murdered civil rights activists in Mississippi
Another tragic day, but there’s many more prominent events in civil rights history that weigh-in more heavily.

I didn't see the episode with Elvis....what was the point of it?

@mano: Again, the idea is "unexpectedly" ... FDR told us that December 7th, 1941 would live in infamy. It was immediate and obvious. Freedom Summer was significant because it was White people killed -- that was significant because it woke up a lot of closet racists. Scopes I disagree with its inclusion because it was obvious to everyone involved that it was significant (it was pretty much the trial of the century at the time). Homestead strike was significant because it changed utterly the relationship between Labor and Mgmt in the US. Antietam was significant because it allowed Lincoln to issue the Emancipation Proclamation and pretty much ended the hope of Southern recognition by the European powers. The Pequot was included simply because it changed the relationship (at least in New England) between White Man and the Indian. Gold Rush was better suited to the special than Louisiana Purchase for two reasons: one, everyone knew the LP was pretty significant when it happened; two, its results took a long time to be fully realized. The Gold Rush happened overnight and the rapid population explosion in California was a contributing factor to the Civil War. Shay's Rebellion was significant because it revealed the flaws of the Articles of Confederation thus leading to the Constitution. I think I covered all your concerns.

@Dreadnought: Why Elvis? Ok, here's the argument they presented as best as I can remember. Elvis had incorporated African-American (among others) elements into his music and dancing on stage, so it started to bridge the divide between White Culture and Black Culture. Also, Elvis thrust his pelvis, and since no sex was happening in the 1950s until Elvis showed up, this is significant (ok, I'm exaggerating, but they do attribute the forthcoming sexual revolution to Elvis). Finally, and most importantly, he was mainstream counterculture (for the reasons listed above), as opposed to fringe counterculture (Kerouac, etc.). Ed Sullivan, being the highest-rated etc. show of the time, legitimized Elvis to mainsteam America like no other avenue could have. That's why it's included.

EDIT: @mano: The creationists won Scopes, not the evolutionists, so unless you think creationism leads to moral decay, your comment needs changing.

@ChrTh: Thanks!

a little off topic
just read in chicago sun times, survey 75% of people surveyed 18-24 dont know where israael is at on a map...60% didnt know where iraq is

some people didnt know where india is at:(

although this survey is not really reliable but i wounder how many americans really know this...its not htatstudents are not taught this,my opinion.. but people just dont take an interest to geography and more to what paris hilton did... i know i am generalizing a bit but it is somewhat like that

@mano: Again, the idea is "unexpectedly" ...

As with all of history, hindsight is 20/20. ;)

Thanks for the correction on Scopes. :blush:

[QUOTE=ChrThFreedom Summer was significant because it was White people killed -- that was significant because it woke up a lot of closet racists.[/QUOTE]

Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were white. James Chaney was black.

Regarding Antietam:

There are a couple of reasons why this battle made the list. First, the Rebels had been advancing on all fronts throughout the summer and were seemingly unstoppable. Advances were made in Missouri and Northern Mississippi, and Confederates had advanced as far north into Kentucky as Frankfort, with scouts pushing into the outer reaches of Louisville. A Confederate victory in Maryland may have been decisive in the fact that Northern morale may have collapsed. It was also the Confederacy's only real chance at defeating the North militarily.

Second, the victory at Antietam allowed Lincoln to release the Emancipation Proclamation, without it appearing like "the last gasp on the retreat" as Secretary of State Seward said. While a weak document, the Proclamation was a mighty act, unifying the north around a new cause, pushing the North permanently onto the moral high ground, and sealed the South diplomatically away from any foreign aid from France and England.