Welcome friends to Tupac04 - Elizabeth NOW. Today we will see one of Civilization 3's most underrated Monarch's, the lovely(ish) Queen Elizabeth of England, take on 7 Deity Opponents NOW. Of course these poor chaps don't know what they are getting themselves into. Lizzie, the old girl, is just the sort to keep a grudge, so they had best be careful around her. Doing the bidding of this leading lady will be the Tupac02 team, hopefully backed up by a new player.

Vanilla 1.29f
Deity (if we find we are losing early then we might drop to emperor but that shouldn't be necessary)
England
7 opponents (Germany, Russia, France and 4 random civs)
Map settings TBA
No specified victory condition, but all conditions of grudge must be fulfilled (see below)

Special Rules

Non-Oscillating War (NOW): The first civ met must have war declared on them during initial diplomacy. Each later civ met gets added, in order, to a list. When the first AI civ on the list is eliminated, war must be declared on the second. As each is eliminated, the next must be declared on before the end of the turn. Other wars are allowed, and alliances are encouraged. Sandbagging or not finishing off a defeated foe simply to not go to war with the next one on the list is illegal. When two or more civs are met simultaneously (via contact sale, perhaps), it is player's choice which order to declare on them.

If an AI civ declares war on you, you may never sign a peace treaty with them. If an AI captures one of your cities it must be recaptured. There is no time limit as such but you are assumed to lose if the game ends before you recapture that city. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated, once again no time limit but they must be eliminated before the games end.


Game Rules
As modified from LK Rules

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

No 'Free Wealth' - Setting a city to wealth at the end of its project and then cycling through the cities at the start of the next turn and changing its project so that you still get the gold (commerce being calculated before anything else in the turn) but also get production

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.

Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.

House rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

3)You ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle.

4)In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it.

5)We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves and you may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy

6) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design unless previously discussed and approved by the team.

7) It is an expectation of all players on the team to log every turn played (even if it merely requires you to post 'zzz')

8) It is an expectation that you will always leave the next player an interturn, so make sure all saves are handed over at the end of your last turn and not the beggining of the next player's first turn.

9) Please complete your turnset. It is very annoying for the next player to receive a half-finished turnset.

10) If you sign up it is an expectation that you will try to see it through. Obviously in some situations, dropping out is unnavoidable but please try and stay the distance.


SG Rules

24 hour got it
72 hour playing time
The first player will play 40 turns, the rest of the team will play 20 turns in the first round. Once everyone has played 1 turnset all players will play 10 turn turnsets.
Playing order will be established after check in.

Roster
Reserved places

tupaclives - checked in
Lboogie13
McLman
Markh

Sign Ups

Mirc

May I join? I never really won at Deity. If this is a problem, then... I won't join :lol:

How do we know in Vanilla when we finished our turns and when to give the save to the next player?

I never really won at Deity. If this is a problem, then...

Not a problem at all, Welcome aboard! Damn that was a fast response! :lol:

How do we know in Vanilla when we finished our turns and when to give the save to the next player?

It is expected that you will keep a log of all turns played (even if it involves writing

'Turn 3 - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - worker finishes roading, starts mine

IBT -zzz...'

and so on. So you should be able to keep track of how many turns you've played. However I'm not too fussy if you play a turn or 2 more or less than you were supposed to, so long as the next player takes it into account. Its when people start playing 5 turns more that it starts to annoy me.

Thank you!
It got much easier to keep track of turns in C3C, since the VCS tells you the exact turn you are in.
If I'll get to play 2 turns more or less it would be by accident, I generally respect the rules of the SG.

Checking in.

Welcome Mirc.

Do you start a game, tupac or are we free to generate a map, too ?

If I like the start, I might sign up. But only if I like it. ;)

I'd like to join.

Since Tupac has participated in both of the strange SG's I started, I think I ought to return the favor. Sign me up.

I have a question (no offense, and not to discourage anyone, just because I want to know): how many are we going to be?

Thats Markh checked in, still waiting on McLman and Lboogie13.

@Lord Emswerth - What exactly do you mean by 'if you like the start'? What sort of start are you thinking of?
@Merlin - as you are already a member of the Tupac Team you're welcome to play
@Sima - I was actually considering reserving a spot for you if you wanted it but I forgot to PM you before I started the thread so welcome aboard.

That gives a team of

tupaclives - confirmed
Lboogie13
McLman
Markh - confirmed
Mirc - confirmed
Merlin - confirmed
Sima - confirmed

Thats a squad of 7 and I really think thats as many as we can handle tops. At 20 turns a pop for each players first turn (plus 40 for whoever starts) that gives us 160 turns played before the second round. Yowza!

Lord Emswerth as you expressed an interest but didn't want to commit to signing up I'll put you in as a reserve. If McLman or Lboogie13 don't want to play, or someone has to drop out then you'll get preference with regards to replacing them. Thats assumign the start is to your likeing of course ;)

Sorry to anyone else interested in signing up but the team is already full.

@Markh - I think we should have a little discussion as to the map conditions first.

I personally think we should play either a continents or archipelago as that fits in with an English 'ruling the waves' theme. OTOH Arch might be too much of a cop out for this variant as we couldn't be attacked really.


With regards to a 'ruling the waves' theme, is anyone besides me interested in using a modified version of the 'I Dream of Dromons' special rules?
Namely:

- We must build and maintain a massive fleet of naval units (starting with Men'o'War).

- While in the Age of Sail (magnetism) up until the end of the the Age of Ironclads (Once destroyers become available) we must use the bombardment-ability of our naval units while attacking coastal cities. The naval units have to redline the forces inside a city before our ground forces are allowed to attack. This rule obviously does not apply if the city is inland.

Regarding the "I Dream of Dromons" rule - suppose we also land a bunch of artillery by the coastal city. Do we have to do *all* the bombardment with naval units, or can we use artillery to help out with that? Personally I think the bombard ability of ironclads and frigates are quite... unimpressive. And especially since the AI has a weird fixation with coastal fortresses.

Since if we go by that rule, I might find it more feasible to simply build a city on their coast and ignore the cities around it, wipe out their inland cities, and then deal with the leftovers. Of course, that's against the "spirit" of the variant, so I'll avoid it if possible.

Well we'll have a bit of a vote on it first but in 'I Dream of Dromon's' they decided it was acceptable to use artillery to bombard coastal cities provided the artillery operated from transports.

Of course I only suggested it since you signed up Sima, and as it was I was worried you might consider the variant to plain ;)

I would say continents, although arch would make it a little easier at this level. Still I would prefer continents.

About the special rule : With bombardment of 3 the Man'O'War might suck at bombarding units. In SM01 - Byzanthines AWD the dromons with bombardment of 2 were not too successful. The hit rate was terrible and after some time it became very tedious. However we could try and if it gets too annoying we can still change it. Maybe the Man'O'War prooves me wrong and shows what a hell of unit it is.:)

I don't really understand the "I dream of dromonms" variant so I don't know what to say.

Edit: Now that I read better, I think that I understand it, it appears very hard. Are we able to win with a NOW and I dream of Dromons on Deity?

I am aware that IDOD became quite tedious at times for those involved, hence me suggesting that, rather than for the whole game, it just be in what is generally regarded as England's dominant period.

@Mirc - of course its possible! The Aggie1 teamd did it on Conquests deity and applied the bombardment rule all game and with several extra parts as well. Oh and they played an Oscillating war game while they were at it.

and besides I just suggested it, if you guys don't want to play it then we won't. It was just a 'themed' suggestion.

@Lord Emswerth - What exactly do you mean by 'if you like the start'? What sort of start are you thinking of?

Lord Emswerth as you expressed an interest but didn't want to commit to signing up I'll put you in as a reserve. If McLman or Lboogie13 don't want to play, or someone has to drop out then you'll get preference with regards to replacing them. Thats assumign the start is to your likeing of course ;)


WRT the start, I just don't like islands. I am not too fond of being on or too close the coast either.

As for the rest, that is OK.

Is it just me, or Seafaring civs will more likely start near a coast?

Edit: :hammer2: Stupid me, I forgot there's no Seafaring in Vanilla.

My favorite vanilla civ is England, but alas, im too bad for Deity, good luck to you, tupaclives, and the rest of the gang.:cool:

Is it just me, or Seafaring civs will more likely start near a coast?

Edit: :hammer2: Stupid me, I forgot there's no Seafaring in Vanilla.

Yes they are suppose to do so in C3C, but it is not a 100%.

I think the big kicker for England is the enslave ability in C3C, you can build up a huge fleet for free that way. It'll test the commercial trait to the limit in Vanilla.

True, but in IDOD their dromons had no enslave ability either.

From the comments I'm assuming that we've decided to accept this extra variant?

In that case I'll roll us up the start tonight

Ok I've rolled up the start (the first start, naturally) and the roster (pulled names out of a hat.

Here's the roster (still waiting on confirmations from Lboogie13 & McLman)

merlin
Sima Qian
tupaclives
Lboogie13
Mirc
markh
McLman

Reserve: Lord Emswerth


So merlin, you play 40 turns for the start and everyone else plays 20 turns on their first go and 10 turns after that.

The Map Settings

Deity
England
7 opponents (germany, russia, france and the other 4 I don't know)
Standard
70% Water Continents
Random Climate
Random Barbs


The start (looks ok so lets see what else there is, I haven't played into the game at all)

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2765/picture29ed1.jpg

One question. Do we want to put our capital on the coast??

Maybe we can have a look with the scout 1W how it looks like there and decide whether to settle on spot or 1W.

Some thoughts. This is NOW so its basically allways war. In deity this means that the initial rush of AI warriors is huge. So good defence in needed early on.

Turn 1 (4000BC): Move scout 1 west, looks good, move settler also there. Worker to bg.

IBT: nothing

Turn 2 (3950BC): Settle London->warrior. Research to writing on min to get MM soon. See a goody hut. Worker to mine. I will not send the scout far as i want some defences before meeting first civ.

IBT: nothing

Turn 3 (3900BC): Hut gives us CB.

IBT: nothing

Turn 4 (3850BC): Just scout movement....

Turn 5 (3800BC): The same

Turn 6 (3750BC): same

Turn 7 (3700BC): London warrior->warrior.

Turn 8 (3650BC): Mine ready, start road. We seem to be in a peninsula, that's good.

Turn 9 (3600BC): zzzz

Turn 10(3550BC): London warrior->granary.

Turn 11(3500BC): zzzz

Turn 12(3450BC): zzzz

Turn 13(3400BC): zzzz

Turn 14(3350BC): zzzz

Turn 15(3300BC): zzzz

Turn 16(3250BC): zzzz

Turn 17(3200BC): zzzz

Turn 18(3150BC): zzzz

Turn 19(3100BC): zzzz

IBT: Dark blue warrior comes from north.

Turn 20(3050BC): We say hello to Bismarck of Germany. There's is nothing in the rules that says no trading before war, so I talk to Bis, he's up bronze, masonry, wheel and warrior code. We are up alpha and cb. So I buy bronze and warrior code for alpha, cb and 50gold. Couldn't get masonry with any tech, so took those two. Then declare war!

IBT: zzzz

Turn 21(3000BC): zzzz

IBT: Barbarian camp pops up next to our scout in nw.

Turn 22(2950BC): move scout to safety.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 23(2900BC): zzzz

IBT: Konigsberg appears to our north.

Turn 24(2850BC): London: granary->spear.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 25(2800BC): zzzz

IBT: Barbarians coming from east also.

Turn 26(2750BC): zzzz

IBT: zzzz

Turn 27(2710BC): London grows to size 4 and I increase lux to 10%.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 28(2670BC): London: spear->rax.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 29(2630BC): zzzz

IBT: zzzz

Turn 30(2590BC): Our scout moves next to a barb, so we lose it next turn. Still no attackers from Germany.

IBT: lose the scout.

Turn 31(2550BC): London to size 5 -> lux 20%.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 32(2510BC): zzzz

IBT: zzzz

Turn 33(2470BC): London: rax->settler.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 34(2430BC): zzzz

IBT: see german archer/spear combo.

Turn 35(2390BC): zzzz

IBT: germans move back

Turn 36(2350BC): zzzz

IBT: zzzz

Turn 37(2310BC): London: settler->spear. Send settler to hill se of London. It's a rather safe place. Not towards the Germans. Lux back to 10%.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 38(2270BC): Settler on place.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 39(2230BC): Build York->warrior.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 40(2190BC): London spear->archer. Chop will help the archer.


Weird start as the germans didn't send any troops. Played pretty safe, but atleast we're quite safe now. We could try to meet other civs soon.

Nice opening there Merlin! :goodjob: now that we know Germany I think that if the opportunity presents itself we should look to meet more civs. The ability to trade is what makes this a lot easier than AW.
I think a run for MM is the best idea for sure. We want to meet other civs and via sea is probably the safest way to do that.
As for Germany not sending many troops, maybe they found another neighbour to have an early war with? Or maybe the barbs did well against them :mischief: or not, but oh well we can dream!

What's with that screenshot?

BTW, why did you build a spear London? Wouldn't it be better to build 2 warriors?

Edit: 2600th post!!! [party]

I kept checking the old thread for info. Just now thought to check for a new thread. :crazyeye:

So ... Checking In!

:salute:

Got it. Nice start so far.

Space Race says the other 4 civs are Persia, India, Aztecs, and China.

Looks like RCP4 is happening here. I want to get a city south of the wheats on grassland, as it will have access to two BG's as well - but no river. We can make that into a settler factory, although I doubt that's going to be very helpful at this point.

2190 BC (Turn 0):

I can't resist moving the warrior off the mountain just to spy on Konigsberg. It's defended by a regular spear.
Is that an incense on the hill NW of Konigsberg? I'll probably find out soon.
I do some MM, give the wheat to York and let London have a forest.
Also changed York to a barracks.
Hit enter.

2150 BC (Turn 1):

Worker chops forest, reveals another BG.
Moving warrior towards barb camp.

2110 BC (Turn 2):

Research: Writing -> Map Making at 10% science.
London: Archer -> Worker

IBT:

German settler plops down to become Frankfurt.

2070 BC (Turn 3):

Thank you barbs!

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2272/tupac042070bc6zd.png

2030 BC (Turn 4):

London: Worker -> Archer

1990 BC (Turn 5):

Yes, it is comfirmed to be incense in those hills.

1950 BC (Turn 6):

zzzz

1910 BC (Turn 7):

London: Archer -> Settler

1870 BC (Turn 8):

zzzz

1830 BC (Turn 9):

zzzz

IBT:

France builds Colossus in Paris.

1790 BC (Turn 10):

London: Settler -> Archer

1750 BC (Turn 11):

Kill a spearman to intercept a German settler, netting us 2 slaves. (1-0)

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/354/tupac041750bc1yl.png

1725 BC (Turn 12):

zzzz

IBT:

Barbs approach Konigsberg. Help us out, please, will you?

1700 BC (Turn 13):

London: Archer -> Archer

I don't like giving names of inland cities to coastal ones, so Liverpool is founded by the cow. Production set to barracks.

1675 BC (Turn 14):

zzzz

IBT:

Barb horse appears near York.
Barb warrior injures German spear to yellow, but I only have one archer nearby and the spear is protecting two other archers, so I leave them alone.

1650 BC (Turn 15):

York: Barracks -> Warrior

IBT:

German archer attacks one of ours and dies, we get promoted to elite (2-0).

1625 BC (Turn 16):

York at size 3, has 1 unhappy citizen. Rather than raise lux, I turn him into a scientist and turn off science. It will be 2 more turns before an MP can be built in York.

IBT:

Germany offers peace for 40 gold, we refuse.

1600 BC (Turn 17):

London: Archer -> Archer

IBT:

Another barb horse threatens York.

1575 BC (Turn 18):

York: Warrior -> Archer
Science back to 10%.
Veteran archers kill German spear + archer outside Konigsberg (4-0).

IBT:

Some RNG silliness.
German archer attacks our archer outside Konigsberg, dies. Our archer promotes to elite. (5-0)
Second German archer attack, kills our elite archer. (5-1)
Barb horseman kills spearman at York. (Grr!)

1550 BC (Turn 19):

York celebrates the loss of the spearman MP by rioting. I have to hire a clown there.
Warrior kills barb horseman.
Veteran archer avenges our lost archer by Konigsberg. (6-1)

1525 BC (Turn 20):

London: Archer -> Archer
Order restored in York. I change the clown to a scientist and switch production to a warrior instead, need that 2nd MP badly.

Screenshot:

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/934/tupac041525bc9sq.th.png (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tupac041525bc9sq.png)

Current situation:

We need more cities... and more military... yeah, not much for me to comment.

Chances are the incense will actually be our first luxury, and the dyes will be claimed later. Hopefully we'll beat the other AI to that.

Germany is now ahead of us by masonry + iron working + the wheel. Map making due in 22 turns.

Germany has contact with Russia. I wonder where they are...

Worker by York is chopping the forest. I probably don't need to say this, but may the next player try to build so that those shields don't get wasted.

The save:

Looks pretty good to me. tupac is next. I think Russia is blocked by the German territory and that's why we didn't see them.

Ok got it, this SG is really motoring along :D.

Will play in a few hours

Pre-flight

All looks good, apart from we are running with 1 scientist as well as 10% science. Cut science back to 0% for now.

IBT - zzz

Turn 1 (1500BC)- move the archer pair onto the mountain.

IBT - London gets culture expansion

Turn 2 (1475BC)- zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 3 (1450BC)- London grows and builds an archer. Its at growth in 10 with 10spt. I up the lux slider to 20% and decide to leave it producing archers at 1 every 2 turns. I fire the scientist in York now that its 2nd warrior is finished, and get it to work a BG. Set science back to 10%.

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 (1425BC)- switch London to a spear (just the 1) to defend Liverpool (When you walk... through the storm... hold you're head up high... and don't be afraid of the dark... ;), yes I am an LFC fan)

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 (1400BC) - Move a stack of archers toward Konigsberg.

IBT - barb horse appears

Turn 6 (1375BC)- the stack will arrive next to Konigsberg next turn

IBT - barb horse suicides against spear in York.

Turn 7 (1350BC)- the stack (well I say stack, theres 4 of them) reach Konigsberg

IBT - an archer moves into the city and onto the hill SW of it.

Turn 8 (1325BC)- kill both spears (reg) and the archer (vet) for one loss (3-1). and Konigsberg is razed.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6928/konigsberg0ld.jpg

Liverpool's barracks is finished and it is set to archers.

IBT - as expected we lose an archer in the interturn (3-2)

Turn 9 (1300BC)- our injured archers decide that discretion is the better part of valour and head off for safety.

IBT - Persopolis completes Pyramids, Beijing completes Oracle.

Turn 10 (1275BC) - London completes settler, goes back to archers. York will riot in the interturn so set lux to 20% (its building a settler so it should be right very soon)

IBT - Paris completes Great Lighthouse,

Turn 11 (1250BC) - counter attack the archer stack by liverpool and kill 2 for no loss (only 1 left so they shouldn't attack) (5-2)

IBT - they get reinforced by 2 new archers.

Turn 12 (1225BC) - York completes settler (will take a spear and look to grab incense). Kill the 2 new archers at Liverpool (7-2).

IBT - worker covering settler defends against a barb horse but is redlined (phew I was worried for a second there!)

Turn 13 (1200BC) - found Nottingham (not on the incense) NE of London so that it has 2 BG's and a wheat usable immediately, decide to risk a bit of infra for it and go for a granary, I want this city to spit workers like they are going out of fashion.

IBT - 2 more archers show at Liverpool

Turn 14 (1175BC) - kill the pair of them, they will be replaced in the interturn though. (9-2)

IBT - 2 more show up... ack they will be replaced in the inteturn as well!

Turn 15 (1150BC) - kill the 2 new 1's (11-2) (there's actually been 3 there the whole time but if 1 is by themselves I know they won't attack, and if i were to kill all 3 then we'd lose the archer in the interturn to the reinforcements. Liverpool will riot so I hire a scientist there and cut back science slider.

IBT - as predicte 2 more show up. as do a barb horse (east) and a german settler pair.

Turn 16 (1125BC) - London is size 5 so lux goes to 20% again. Its back to 10spt. kill the 2 new archers. (13-2)

IBT - lose a slave worker to a barb horse (13-3) grrr! only 1 archer replaces the dead, but this time a spear is joining them next turn. Darn.

Turn 17 (1100BC) - kill the new archer, kill the settler pair and get 2 slaves. (15-2)

IBT - for some reason the spear and new archer leave... oh right... to meet up with that big stack of 5 archers. I hate Bismarck.

Turn 18 (1075BC) - zzz

IBT - yeah that nasty stack is moving Liverpool's way.

Turn 19 (1050BC) - we found Hastings on the closest incense hill (RCP 9, that should be 3rd ring, we should aim for RCP 7 for the 2nd ring). Konigsberg was 1 tile SE so the road is still there which should make it easier to get incense connected as we only need to road grasslands. Hastings has 2 spears, and there are archers on the way there.

IBT - the big stack moves within range of liverpool. several archers move toward Hastings.

Turn 20 - kill the spear and 3 of the archers for no loss at Liverpool. (19-2) the first of our archers reaches Hastings. get 1 worker to start roading Nottingham's wheat. We should look to irrigate that as soon as possible.
At size 3 with a granary and a mined wheat (+2mined BG's), Nottingham should produce +5fpt and +5spt (after corruption). With the granary we only need 10food to grow in size. So we get growth in 2, worker in 2. That can then be our worker factory.

We should keep sending archers produced in London toward Hastings until it is definately secure. Liverpool is very secure. As long as Germany doesn't start sending swordsmen soon we should be fine.
Map Making is in 2, I suggest London builds 2 galleys, 1 to head east and 1 to head west. Alternatively we could build them in York. After Map Making I'd suggest researching either masonry at max without losing lux slider (so 0% tax, we have a lot of spare cash). or Ironworking to get swords of our own. Walls could be very useful, and it starts us toward maths with the extremely important catapults. But swords are very tempting. I leave it up to the next player to decide.

London should keep producing archers (and the 2 galleys) till it reaches size 6, then either produce a settler, would probably be best. To head east.

here's a very rough dotmap.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6888/picture90yt.jpg

There is room for another 1st ring city I believe south of the western red dot. The 'maybe' red dot would be abandoned later in the game but right now would have access to 2 mined BG's, plus some mined grasslands, and if we ever got the worker time to do it, the mined mountain. It would produce nothing other than military and maybe some workers or settlers every now and then, its entire existence. The way I get 2 mined bg's (1 would otherwise belong to Nottingham) is that if we irrigated the wheat by nottingham, she can use a forest instead of the mined BG and still be at +5fpt which.

and here's the world as we know it.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6350/bigview6ti.jpg


and the save, Good luck!

worker covering settler defends against a barb horse but is redlined (phew I was worried for a second there!)



Wow bullet-proof workers :lol:

Enjoying lurking this - very entertaining :goodjob:

Will LBoogie13 play (he didn't check in), or am I next?

I've PM'd him so just give him the standard 24 hours 'got it' time.

Ok we'll skip Lboogie.

Mirc you're up.

Lboogie, you have a week to get back to me on whether or not you want to be in this game. If you don't get back to me in that time then I'll have to give your place to Lord Emswerth.

Ok, got it, I will play in a few hours.

(I hope I will play, because I have to read a stupid 300-page book until tomorrow!)

Ok I'm in. Sorry didn't know you started a new thread! I kept checking our old thread and saw nothing there. Am I up?

You were before me to play, but I'm already playing it (and I'm doing a stupid imprudence by staying at CFC while playing, considering my RAM memory.
If you want, I won't post the save, and let you play.

Mirc finish your turnset, Lboogie can play after you, and then we'll go back to the normal roster. We'll just treat this as a swap for now.

Ok sounds good I will wait until Mirc finishes up.

Any news, Mirc ? :bump:

I had a lot of problems these days, that's why I didn't play. Sorry. I have some little time now though.

:blush: I delayed this game 3 days I think. I have a problem with my computer and can't access the save

LBoogie, how about going with the normal order? Can you play before me? I will have to play after that (again). My saves could be all lost, in any case I won't get them back before Saturday.

alright Lboogie take the save, lets try and get this moving again. Its been nearly a week since anyone played.

Hello ??? Is there anybody here?

:bump:

Ok I think the 24 hour got it is well exceeded. Mirc and Lboogie are both skipped. Markh, you are up. If you doe not claim in 24 hours then McLman is up.

I got it. I will play tonight.

0) 1025BC : looks fine. hit enter

IBT : nothing

1) 1000BC : we kill 2 German archers at Liverpool (2-0)

IBT : map making comes in -> iron working
London : archer -> galley

2) 975BC ; kill a German archer at Liverpool (3-0)

IBT : nothing

3) 950BC : kill a German spear and net us two new slaves (4-0)
lose an archer at Liverpool (4-1)
kill a German archer at Liverpool (5-1)

IBT : York : spear -> spear
Liverpool : archer -> archer

4) 925BC : zzzz

IBT : lose an archer (5-2)
London : galley -> galley

5) 900BC : kill a German archer at Liverpool (6-2)
kill a German archer on the way to Hastings (7-2)

IBT : nothing

6) 875BC : eArcher kills German archer at Liverpool (8-2)
archer loses to reg German warrior at Liverpool (8-3)
archer kills German archer at Liverpool and promotes elite

IBT : Liverpool : archer -> settler

7) 850BC : capture another German settler-spear combo for another two slaves

IBT : Germans also have map making, a galley appears at Hastings
York : spear -> spear

8) 825BC : lose an archer to a German spear at Liverpool (8-4)
eArcher kills that spear (9-4)
eArcher kills a German archer at Liverpool (10-4)

IBT : London : galley -> settler

9) 800BC : eArcher kills German archer at Liverpool (11-4)

IBT : zzzz

10) 775BC : eArcher kills German archer at Liverpool (12-4)
eArcher kills German archer at Liverpool (13-4)
archer kills German warrior at Liverpool (14-4)
lose an archer at Liverpool (14-5)

IBT : archer defends outside of Hastings and promotes elite (15-5)

11) 750BC : kill a German archer ouside Hastings (16-5)
meet a Russian archer, Catherine is up at least masonry, wheel and myst

IBT : first German sword kills an archer near Frankfurt (16-6)
York : spear -> archer

12) 730BC : 3 German archers suicide at Hastings promoting one spear to elite (19-6)

IBT : London : settler -> archer
Liverpool : settler -> archer

13) 710BC : nothing

IBT : iron working comes in -> masonry
Nottingham granary -> spear

14) 690BC : we have iron near Nottingham
found Canterbury -> rax
trade iron working to Catherine for masonry and 3 gold (she had no more money to spend)
set research to maths in 22

IBT : nothing

15) 670BC : kill another German setter-spear combo (20-6)
meet the Persians in the NE, they are up everything
I buy myst from him for 12 gold and contact with the Russians, everything else was too expensive

IBT : various German swords leave Frankfurt
London : archer -> archer
York : archer -> archer

two more rounds and we have our iron connected

16) 650BC : archer kills German sword at Liverpool (21-6)

IBT : we lose our Western galley to a barb ship
Liverpool : archer -> archer
France completes the great wall

17) 630BC : archer kills German sword at Liverpool (22-6)
eArcher kills settler-spear combo at Hastings (23-6)

IBT : someone has entered the next age, a Persian city is overrun by barb horses

18) 610BC : iron is connected, change all archer builds to swords
lose three archers at Hastings (23-9)
found Coventry : rax

IBT : lose a spear and an archer at Liverpool (23-11)

19) 590BC : eArcher kills German archer at Liverpool (24-11)
lose an archer at Liverpool (24-12)
shuffle some units, it is getting dangerous at Liverpool

IBT : London sword -> sword

20) 570BC : nothing important

and on to the next one. Maths is due in 9. We badly need pults.
A pic and the save.

Good stuff Markh, we've got other contacts now so at least we can look to pull ourselves out of the tech hole.

Merlin - on deck
Sima Qian
tupaclives
Lboogie13
Mirc
Markh - Just played
McLman - UP

Got it, busy tonight and tomorrow during the day. Will play & post before I go to bed Sunday. (Unless I have a question for the team that is). Comments and suggestions between now and then would be greatly appreciated.

Pre-turn.
Everything looks good, except for Bismark's swarm of swords heading our way.
Hit Enter

IT
German Sword kills one of our Spears at Liverpool (0-1).
Bismark lands an archer next to Nottingham.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/bismarklanding.jpg

Turn 1) 550 BC
Vet Archer dies while attacking Vet Sword outside of Liverpool (0-2)
Vet Sword is redlined, but kills him (1-2)
Change Nottingham to a spear. Move a sword toward Nottingham to help out, maybe the warrior will hold. Move workers who where irrigating wheat N of Nottingham to safety.

IT
The archer from the landing attacks Nottingham & our reg. warrior beats the vet sword. (2-2)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Heroicwarrior.jpg
York: Sword -> Sword
Nottingham: Spear -> Rax

Turn 2) 530 BC
Our galley exploring the Persian coast discovers a galley flying a flag we've never seen.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/newencounter.jpg
Montezuma is added to the list.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Montezuma.jpg
He knows the French, Indians, and Chinese. Tempted to buy contacts, but decide now is a good time to tech up. Utilizing my wife's philosophy (Why burden yourself carrying around cash when you can spend it!) I buy The Wheel (horses), Math (cats) and CoL (because I can) for our World Map and 400 gold. I then turn around and give Russia Math and 7 gold for HBR.
Here I almost stop and ask for help from the team. What to research? But because the game has been moving so slow, I decide to keep it moving and go forward in the manner I would if I were playing solo. I pick Polytheism at max rate without going negative. From this point I'd like to get into Monarchy as soon as possible. The others can wait in my opinion. There are horses in our borders between Cantebury and Hastings. Not roaded yet, and right int the path of he oncoming swords.

IT
A German reg archer kills one of our Vet archers making his way to Hastings (2-3)

Turn 3) 510 BC
Our vet archer kills the offending reg archer (3-3)

IT
We lose 2 swords, an archer, and have 2 workers captured. (2-6)
Germans are building the Great Library

Turn 4) 490 BC
Scrambling to recover. Hastings is going to be hit hard within the next couple of turns.

IT
A German sword attacks Hastings and loses to our spear (3-6)
Another German sword attacks one of ours on a hill and loses (4-6)
London: Sword -> Cat
Aztecs are building the Great Library
A settler pair appears N of Hastings

Turn 5) 470 BC
Return workers to irrigate wheat N of Nottingham

IT
Archer attacks our sword on hill and loses.
Bismark brings a lot of heat next to Hastings
Persians building the Hanging Gardens & Great Library.

Turn 6) 450 BC
Our Galley enters Aztec waters.

IT
Bismark brings it on Hastings. We lose 2 spears, and kill 2 swords (6-8)
London: Cat -> Sword
York: Sword -> Sword
We get a trespassing warning from Montezuma

Turn 7) 430 BC
Galley spots light blue borders NE of Aztec land
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/blueborders.jpg
There are now 3 German settler pairs near Hastings. They apparently have their eyes on the Jungle to our NE.

IT
German swords attack 2 of our swords (IN JUNGLE) and win both times (6-10)
Another German sword attacks our spear in Hastings and promotes him to elite (7-10)
Liverpool: Sword -> Sword
Aztecs building Hanging Gardens
German Settlers motoring through.

Turn 8) 410 BC
Not much I can do about German Settlers. They keep killing our swords. Trying to get reinforcements to Hastings.
Galley finds the Chinese, they're in the Middle Ages (As are the Persians and Aztecs)

IT
Spear in Hastings kills 2 German Swords (9-10)
Sword on his way to hastings is attacked by a German Sword covering a settler pair and wins (10-10)

Turn 9) 390 BC
Worker moves. Fortify Sword in London. Bismark has 2 spears on the hill next to it.

IT
German Sword finally defeats our spear in Hastings (10-11)
Get a Trespassing Warning from Mao.
A Russian Settler Pair appears to the SW of Hastings
London: Sword -> Sword
Nottingham: Rax -> Sword

Turn 10) 370 BC
Manage to get a sword and catapult to aid in the defense of Hastings.

IT
Sword succesfully defends Hastings vs. German vet sword (11-11)

Turn 11) 350 BC
Take a whack at a German Settler pair (out in the open) and vet sword loses (11-12)

IT
Our Archer and Sword in Hastings lose on consecutive attacks to Swords (11-14) and we lose Hastings.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Hastingsfalls.jpg
York: Sword -> Sword

Turn 12) 330 BC
India has founded a town to our East
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/newneighbors.jpg

IT
London: Sword -> Sword
Liverpool: Sword -> Sword

Turn 13) 310 BC
Lose a sword trying to kill the injured spear guarding a German Settler (11-15)

IT
German Spears cut our Iron
Liverpool Riots (didn't see it coming)
Canterbury: Rax -> Cat
Chinese are building Sun Tzu's & The Hanging Gardens

Turn 14) 290 BC
Kill one of the spears that got the Iron. (12-15)
Move workers back toward iron.

IT
Germans building Sun Tzu's
Germany founds a City to our E (Konigsburg)
Persians building Sun Tzu's

Turn 15) 270 BC
Scrambling to get iron hooked back up, and put togehter some kind of an assault force.

IT
We learn polytheism. Set research for Monarchy.
Bismark lands a sword NE of Liverpool
London: Sword -> Cat
Nottingham: Sword -> Cat

Turn 16) 250 BC
Hire a scientist to research Monarchy. Close to 40 any way we slice it.
Kill the other pillaging spear (13-15)
Kill the elite sword who landed next to London. (14-15)

IT
Lots of German troop movement
York: Sword -> Cat

Turn 17) 230 BC
We lose a vet sword vs. a reg sword NW of Liverpool.

IT
Vet German sword attacks Liverpool and kills a vet Sword. (14-16)
London: Cat -> Cat
Coventry: Cat-> Walls

Turn 18) 210 BC
Trying to fortify Liverpool and Canterbury.

IT
2 German Swords attack Liverpool and lose to a vet Sword (16-16)
Germans building Hanging Gardens

Turn 19) 190 BC
Fortifying our line of cities.

IT
London: Cat -> Sword (Iron hooked back up!)
York: Cat -> Sword
Nottingham: Cat -> Sword
Canterbury: Cat -> Sword
Bismark has completed the Hanging Gardens in Leipzig
Persians building Sun Tzu's, Great Libray, and Sistine Chapel.

Turn 20) 170 BC
Moving Cats to the front.
Take a couple of catapult shots at German Swords as a stack is trying to form NW of Canterbury.

Post Turn
Very frustrating turnset. Looked to be in good shape when it was handed to me, but now we're worse off than when we started. It feels like the only battles I won were defensive. Couldn't muster a succesful attack, even when the defender was in the open. The AI is racing ahead in tech. On the positive side, we're set up to crank out veteran swords at a decent clip. And sprinkle cats in as needed. In hindsight I should have whipped (or at the least built) walls in Hastings. Hopefully the next player will have better luck.

The World as we know it and the save...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_wawk_170bc.jpg (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_170BC.SAV)

I think skipping me was a good thing. I was really busy and probably not able to play. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Sounds like tough turns. It's always difficult fighting an early war, especially in deity and against Germany. I'll play tonight, guess I'll play 10 turns now. I don't however see us playing this game very long. Germany is growing bigger all the time and that means a lot more swords, soon knights and LB's and pikes defending. I'll try a desperate move to raze some German cities...

No need to apologize McLMan. It began to get tough during my set already. The turn I wanted to attack Frankfurt the first swords came out and killed this attempt. When I moved the galley north I saw how big Bismarck was already and that it would be no fun fighting him. We would need to pillage Bismarck's iron(s), but I do not see this happening.

Something came up, and I have to go away for a week. So skip me until next monday....

I do not envy you lads. I'd rather start next to just about anybody, even Xerxes, rather than Bismark in an always war game. Sorta reminds me of own9, the doomed AWD game from a while back. Started on a small continent with Zulus, Aztecs, and Romans. Not fun either.

If you all can pull this off, this will be one for the ages. And you still just might be the guys to do it. Some pretty good players on this team, I think. Good luck.

Sorry all. At least I am now up after tupaclives, which tends to work well for me!

What? Back to me already? Drat, and I was going to post an update to my solo story. Oh well, time to hack away at this then... let's hope my fingers aren't too tired after making dumplings...

Got it.

Turn 0 (170 BC)

OK, first thing I see are some entertainers that could be converted to other specialists, and some other micromanagement with the cities. Nothing big there, in fact no change in gpt, just shields.
I don't see why Coventry needs walls so badly, so i switch it to a swordsman.
I'd much rather attack with our swords than be attacked, so I send the two fortified ones on the offensive. Kill 2 German swordsmen (2-0).
Canterbury can do fine with just one MP, so i send the spear out to cover our exposed sword (at 3/4 health now after the battle).
Trading situation: ugly. Can't get anything for a reasonable price, so I decide to do nothing.

Hit enter.

IBT:

As expected, Bismarck attacks and kills the spear. Our swordsman is saved though (2-1).
German settler escorted by spearman coming out of Hastings.

Turn 1 (150 BC)

I try my luck and attack a German sword with our injured sword, but lose. Bad call on my part (2-2).
Move in our units in hopes of grabbing some slaves from the settler.

IBT:

German settler and escort continue on their way... right next to our waiting swords.

Turn 2 (130 BC)

Liverpool: Walls -> Swordsman
Do some catapult bombardment, but I still lose a swordsman to the spear (2-3).
Second attack succeeds, and we get 2 slaves (3-3).
We have an unprotected stack of catapults, but only one German unit threatens them. I kill it with the sword MP from Canterbury, where I have to make a taxman. The sword promotes to elite (4-3).
Our galley discovers a pink border, presumably France.

IBT:

Germans move some units around but do not attack.

Turn 3 (110 BC)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Five cats do 1 hp damage total to a German sword, sick.
Kill a swordsman and an archer, but our elite goes down to 2/5 hp and stands next to two more German swords (6-3).
Meet Joan, who is annoyed with us. She has contact with the Indians and is also in the middle ages. No worthwhile trades.

IBT:

2 swords lost to German swords (6-5).

Turn 4 (90 BC)

York: Swordsman -> Spearman
Kill a the German sword that killed our elite (7-5).

IBT:

The victorious unit defends successfully again, but is killed by a second German attacker (8-6).

Turn 5 (70 BC)

Nottingham: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Kill the previous German unit with elite sword from Nottingham, can't let him get away with that (9-6).

IBT:

Germany attacks, we lose 1 spearman but kill 2 swords (11-7).
China starts on Sistine Chapel.

Turn 6 (50 BC)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Liverpool: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Coventry: Swordsman -> Spearman
Kill the German sword that killed our spearman (12-7).
Russia is in Middle Ages now.
There's a German settler escorted by a spearman, with an asterisk next to it. Eek, Germany got a leader.

IBT:

France builds the Great Library. Cascades go to Sistine and Sun Tzu's.

Turn 7 (30 BC)

York: Spearman -> Swordsman
Canterbury: Swordsman -> Spearman
No combat.

Turn 8 (10 BC)

Meet up with an Indian galley on France's east coast. They are in Middle Ages but not building Sistine Chapel, so they might not have Theology yet. Will give us currency for WM + 230g, but I don't see any reason we need it yet.
No combat.

IBT:

German settler goes out of our sight. Darnit, I think we might miss them this time.

Turn 9 (10 AD)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Our swordsmen kill 2 German swords and an archer (15-7).

IBT:

A German pikeman shows up outside Hastings. Er...

Turn 10 (30 AD)

Liverpool: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Nottingham: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Lose a sword to the elite spear guarding the settler, but win with a second sword (16-8). Two more slaves.
Redline the pikeman with cats, but I still manage to lose a swordsman to him. Second attack succeeds (17-9).
Buy an Aztec worker for WM + 28g.

IBT:

A pikeman leaves Hastings, covering an archer. Hastings is now defended by a vet swordsman.

Turn 11 (50 AD)

York: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Coventry: Spearman -> Spearman
Kill a German archer northeast of Nottingham (18-9).

IBT:

Persia demands TM + 34g, I let them have it.
Germany attacks our stack of Swordsmen outside Canterbury, we lose 2 but kill 1 (19-11).

Turn 12 (70 AD)

London: Swordsman: Swordsman
Kill the two German swords that attacked us (21-11).

Turn 13 (90 AD)

Canterbury: Spearman -> Spearman
Kill a pikeman and a spearman after redlining with cats (23-11).

IBT:

Lose a swordsman to German counterattack (23-12).

Turn 14 (110 AD)

Liverpool: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Kill the German sword from last turn (24-12).

IBT:

Swordsman on hill outside Hastings wins 2 battles defending against German swords, but loses the third one (26-13).

Turn 15 (130 AD)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman
York: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Nottingham: Swordsman -> Swordsman

Kill the two defenders of Hastings, and the city is ours again (28-13). 3 slaves and a catapult captured. 1 resister (???).

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/cc3345bd32804334800da4821c551a3a.PNG

I check with MapStat, and notice something startling: India is down to 3 cities. They seem to have been taken down by Persia and Aztecs. Persia is at 25 cities, China 21, Aztecs 10.

IBT:

2 German swords approach Hastings.
Persia, China, France start Leo's.

Turn 16 (150 AD)

Coventry: Spearman -> Swordsman
Move a bunch of units in to defend Hastings.

Turn 17 (170 AD)

Kill 4 swordsman around Hastings, with 1 loss (32-14). One of them teaches the Germans a fine lesson of time management:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/6418bbaf12594346af2ab99750b3452c.PNG

I have no idea what to do with the leader. Since it doesn't look like there's any other elite units to win again this turnset, I'm going to leave it up to the next player to decide what to do. I don't like sword armies but they can be very powerful, so don't throw that option right away. I send Edward on his way to London for a hero's welcome.

IBT:

One of our swordsmen is killed by a German swordsman (32-15).

Turn 18 (190 AD)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Liverpool: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Canterbury: Spearman -> Swordsman
Kill the German swordsman from the IBT (33-15).

IBT:

Successfully defend against a sword attack (34-15).

Turn 19 (210 AD)

York: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Nottingham: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Kill 2 German spears and capture Konigsberg (36-15). I keep it mainly because we're over our unit support limit, after this we are paying 2gpt for our units. Feel free to abandon it later.

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/b5f37aad0e6e4302bb9e4f80e19f817b.PNG

IBT:

China completes Sun Tzu's Art of War in Beijing. Hmmm... makes me wonder if it was possible to trade our way up to Feudalism and get it with the leader...

Turn 20 (230 AD)

Bombard and kill 2 German swords that approached Hastings (38-15).
Switched London to harbor, it was 1 turn from making another swordsman. I'm doing this to open up the possibility of exporting incense, since we now have two sources connected.

Current Situation

- I left the save with the Leader activated; do whatever you think is best. We have only one elite sword that can produce another leader and it is at 3/5 health on the incense hill NW of Hastings.
- We have 34 units, our unit support only covers us up to 32. We are paying 2gpt to support our military.
- Germany still has 8 cities. We are now tied with them in that respect.
- I haven't bothered with embassies, mostly because I was stupid and didn't read the rules carefully and didn't realize alliances were allowed. OOPS!
- Monarchy 16 turns away, with a single scientist in Liverpool doing research. India will sell us Currency + Construction for WM + 497g. I wonder if they will give us a better deal as they move down toward OCC.
- Persia is getting huge, I'm not looking forward to a showdown with them:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/7295/tupac230adpowergraph1rc.th.png (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tupac230adpowergraph1rc.png)

The Save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_230AD.zip

Great turnset, Sima.:goodjob:

Wow, Persia has 25 cities already.:eek: Poor Gandhi.

Very nice job

Great stuff Sima! Won't be able to get to it till thursday as its too late right now and its my birthday tomorrow (big 16th :beer:) and I'll be far too drunk to play such a delicate save then.

Hopefully I won't mess up all your good work.

'Got it'

Happy Birthday, tupac !:bday: :cheers:

Holy Cow! 16!?!?!? :eek: You are skilled beyond your years, padwan! :woohoo: :bday: Happy Birthday, tupaclives! :banana: :dance:

Congratulations, happy 16th!

Happy birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@SimpleMonkey: I've seen younger good players. I was surprised to find out that a poster here who beats Sid really easy is 13!

Happy Birthday tupaclives!!

16 huh? That's a milestone birthday for sure.

I won't mention what my next milestone is.

Happy birthday man. I think you guys will have to skip me. I'll be out of town for a week. Since I've missed my first two turns I'll understand if you guys take me out of the roster.

Thanks for the wellwishers everyone! Now back to hauling us out of this whole (I wanted a challenge in at least one of my SG's and this is a beauty!).

Pre-flight

Things look solid. I can't say they look good because that would be a lie, but they are solid. Sima has done a great job in his turnset and its up to me to keep that going and not drag us back. We have all contacts and thats a huge plus. With no wonders to rush I think there really is only one logical choice for the leader, a sword army. Thats our best bet I think (pray I'm right). Then I decide we cannot fight this foe alone. I'm pretty sure Russia is on our continent so I establish and embassy and sign them in against Germany. It costs a whopping 20gpt but it will be worth it if we can gain control of our front. Russia goes Gracious.

IBT - we lose one of the swords in German territory to an attacking sword. (0-1)

Turn 1 - Our sword army and our sword force (plus cats) moves into Germany territory. I pack up our workers on the incense hill and they head to the other side of Hastings to mine the hill there in safety.

IBT - the Chinese offer us Philosophy for 100gp. We won't get much better deal but I decide to renogiate and I can get it for 89gp. 2 German swords move onto the incense hill.

Turn 2 - Canterbury: Sword --> Sword (5), Liverool: Sword --> Sword (4) Our force comes alongside Leipzig. Now heres a pickle for sure. It has the Hanging gardens (we could cut back on lux) but will be heavily defended and culturally risky. Should i risk an attack on it? While I ponder I kill the 2 swords without loss (2-1).
Our mil advisor says we are strong compared to Germany...
They're weaker than us? They're are toasty! :eek:

IBT - zzz

Turn 3 - York: Sword --> Sword (harbor, see below), Nottingham: Sword --> Sword (4)
Fat finger a sword attack on Leipzig before the cats fire and we kill the vet pike! We are redlined but still, we killed the vet Pike! first blood of the siege to us! (3-1) In my excitement I accidently attack with a second :blush:
and just to be a smart ass he wins as well (redlined). (4-1) Luckily I don't push my luck. Our cats get involved now (though we are down to facing reg pike) and rather than doing anything they meow. They knock of a pop point and destroy the rax (we could have used that to heal!) our 4/5 elite wins against the reg pike (redlined) and shows a 2/4 sword. Our army easily wins and after some thinking I decide to keep the city. The Hanging gardens is too useful to us to turn down. And its only level 3 culture so we might be able to hang on... (6-1)

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8401/picture16gq.jpg

Set London to HE (11 turns), set York to Harbor (9). I take London off the Forest (the only 1fpt tile it was using) to cut growth, change that guy to a tax collector (HE drops to 12 turns), and cut back Lux 10%. We are now at +15gpt as opposed to +4gpt at the start of the turn.
Establish embassies with Persia (persopolis Sistine's in 5), France (Paris Leo's in 6 turns) and China (beijing building Uni).
Our front is now Leipzig (a nice little choke, will be great once the temple is built, can actually rush it first turn the resistance ends as there is enough pop), so with an army there as well as cats i decide to send all the new Swords to take out Frankfurt, also order up a few settlers.

IBT - Flawlessly kill a German sword on the defence (7-1)

Turn 4 - Canterbury: Sword --> worker
zzz just get guys near Frankfurt.

IBT - German sword moves onto hill by Leipzig, Germans unload some swords on the russian island to our south (see them disembark), and Persia and India sign peace.

Turn 5 - Liverpool: Settler --> Sword (5) (have to make the London taxman a scientist).
Our forces attack Frankfurt and kill the 2 spears for no loss (9-1) and auto-raze the city. Hm, it was size 3 last turn. It would have been fun to not be paying for unit support. Oh well. Kill the German sword on the hill. (10-1)

IBt - zzz

Turn 6 - Nottingham: Sword --> Sword (3), Canterbury: Settler --> Sword
Move settlers and guys, bombard german sword to redlined.

IBT - Persopolis completes Sistine's Chappel.

Turn 7 - Found Warwick --> Cat, finally get to whip that temple in Leipzig. The populace will hate us but we'll finally get some culture there. Start prepping for another foray into German territory.

IBT - Paris completes Leo's

Turn 8 - Leipzig: Temple --> Settler.
Our guys head toward German lands. based on the culture in the city I'd say thats Berlin we're headed for. Found Newcastle --> Worker.

IBT - zzz

Turn 9 - Liverpool: Sword --> Sword, Nottingham: Sword --> Sword, Hastings: Cat --> cat
Step on a hill and reveals we are in the vicinty of Berlin with our army.

IBT - zzz

Turn 10 - Move within range of Berlin for next turn, but I'd prefer to take the extra turn to cross the river so we don't have to cross it when we attack.
Not a lot this turn so I'll just go straight to analysis.

There is plenty of land for settling. As I assume we are planning to revolt to Monarchy once it comes in we'll still get unit support so the more cities the better. I'd say we want about 3-5 settlers in the next turnset, and there should be that many city sites, particularly if we raze Berlin. Our next leader should prob rush the FP if there is a suitable location. If not he could always form another army and leave it empty till knights...
Monarchy is in 5 and we are t +14gpt and not paying unit costs yet. Our 20gpt deal with Russia will continue till the end of the next player's turnset, sorry for tying up half our income, but given how little we ahve seen from Germany I think it may have been worth it.
Things aren't 'good' yet but they are probably 'quite solid' so we are continually strengthening our position. Our next few turnsets should focus on getting out of Despo, pushing Germany further, settling new lands and trying to catch up in tech.
My priorities for techs after monarchy (I assume we'll be buying not researching tho) would be a min run on lit with our scientist and buy our way into the MA in the meantime, Currency should be the first tech we buy as we badly need markets for the extra cash.
I think our next lot of turnsets will probably just be consolidating.
Oh and theres something up with the turns, I obviously didn't play 10 but we were all muddled up somewhere and anyway we are sitting on a nice round 350AD at present. Remember its 10 turns each from here on in.

Good luck to the next player! (whether it be Lboogie or Mirc)
The front

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/7942/picture28sr.jpg

and the save

Edit: Deleted Accidental Post

Any thought to the fact that you're going to have to go to war with Russia as soon as Bismark is cooked? (And BTW, I'm quite impressed with the progress you've made so far. Pulling Russia in as an ally (for now) may have been the crucial step, plus getting the army. Once the AI cracks they tend to collapse pretty quickly.) Are you all in a position to move right into whacking Cathy? Actaully, using her as an ally is pretty smart, because she may use up a lot of military fighting Germany.

Got it. I play play in a few hours, when my concert ends.

I am aware that we have to turn on Cathy once Germany drops but I think by then our army will be more than strong enough to, if nothing else, hold her long enough to get the forces we need to knock her off. I'd then look at securing our coasts etc and fighting defensive war against the next opponent, maybe sign 1-2 other civs against them (if they are big) and possible switching to Republic and pushing infra and catching up in tech.

We'll see how things go, good luck Mirc!

Happy bday tupac, how's the driving going? ;)

I'm not dead yet ;). I played 3 turns, now if my fother doesn't discover that I'm not sleeping (in half an hour, after I eat), I will play. If she discovers and says "You know that you have to leave tomorrow in the morning! Go to bed now." I won't play. But I hope the first variant will happen.
The game is great going.
BTW, I'll be out of my city next week, then the other 2 weeks after the next one I'll be in Germany. I'll be back in June 6th. I won't play until then. After that in June 25th I might be in southern Italy. :banana:

Hey, happy belated b-day, i didnt think you would do a succsason game. Great work tho!

P.S. I don't wanna sign up. I'm an awsome bulder but a poor warmonger.

I have been very lucky!

I really can't remember the turns, but here is what happened:
I captured all the cities of Germany, together with one that didn't exist at the begining of my turnset. Germany destroyed. :banana: The only unlucky part was loosing 4 swordsman to the last Pikeman of Germany, which was 2/4.
Declared war on Catherine. Destroyed Yakutsk (size 1, no culture).
Improved the infrasturcture (we have lots of workers and they are all working).

The save after 10 turns (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/450AD_Mirc_NOW.SAV)
The save after 11 turns, after capturing the 10-sized city of Moscow (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/460AD_Mirc_NOW.SAV)

The next player can choose what save he wants, the second one is (just a little bit) risky because Russian swords are approaching. But I'm sure you can attack their swords before they got to attack us. They are weaker on defense, so we should be able to handle it, probably without any loss.

Good luck to the next player.

Had a look at the save and things look pretty good, we'll play from the 11th turn and the next player can do 9 to get back on track, try to keep to the turn limit in future.
Also Mirc, it was mentioned in the first post, a log is not just expected, it is a requirment. Personally it is great to help me write down my thought process and thus helps me work through and decisions I ahve to make, it also lets the other players see how your thought process develops throughout the turns, and to help everyone stay on the same wavelength. I'll turn a blind eye to its absense this time but from here on in anyone who does not have a log (refer to the first post for the question of slow turns) then the turns played will be void.
Harsh but I am adamant about the requirement for a log.

Little rant aside, Great work Mirc on Germany, 1 down 6 to go. I think we should push to take down Russia as quickly as we can, and look to get complete control of our continent. From there we can look to build up strong infrastructure and develop our land.

Roster

Merlin
Sima
tupaclives
Lboogie13 - skipped
Mirc - just played
Markh - UP
McLman - On Deck

Ah, and since the death of Bismark meant that your MA with Cathy had dissolved, you could turn on her with no rep repercussions. Very nice.

Would it be possible for the Markh to give us a beginning of play map, so we lurkers can see just what Mirc accomplished?

I got it. Here is something for the monkey.

and its not just the monkey who appreciates it :goodjob:

Outstanding! :goodjob: What looked like last place up to a world power. I am impressed.

0) 460AD : just some micromanagement
we buy currency from Gandhi for 205 gold. Feudalism in 15

IBT : Newcastle : worker -> rax

1) 470AD : Persia has muskets
moving units

IBT : we lose a sword at Cologne
Moscow flips back
Liverpool : sword -> sword
Canterbury : sword -> sword

2) 480AD : retake Moscow, will abandon it next turn
abandon Cologne as we will not be able to hold it

IBT : damn, 3 Russian knights approach Moscow
London : horseman -> horseman
York : swordsman -> swordsman
Nottingham : swordsman -> settler

3) 490AD : abandon Moscow and retreat all units, maybe they all will be lost IBT as the army is badly wounded

IBT : 1 Russian knight kills our army
1 Russian knight kills a vet sword
2 Russian knights retreat, this does not look good
1 Russian knight is dropped behind our lines at Berlin

4) 500AD : horseman kills a retreated Russian knight
sword kills Russian spear at Nuremberg

I stopped here as I need some advice. The save is attached for everybody to have a look at it. Russian knights start to come in. Berlin will fall or we have to abandon it. We do not have enough reinforcements to hold the land. We are very thin on units.

Wow, we're in quite a pickle. Building units everywhere, which is what we need. Only thing I can think to do is try to hold the line until we can build up more forces. I wouldn't put any money on our chances from here. Looks pretty bleak.

I haven't opened the save to be sure, but I'm wondering if a Stalinesque scorched earth strategy might work here; i.e. a tactical retreat back to a defensible line, destroying what you leave behind so Cathy can't have it. Worked in the winter of 1943, if I have my dates right.

I think something along those lines might be in order. But we can't afford to fall back past Leipzig. The trouble is a scorched earth policy won't really help us as we can't rely on the winter to kill off the invading troops.

Do what you can Markh, if you can't hold, then you can't hold, its not your fault.

Do what you can, I favour a tactical retreat to Leipzig.

Of course I haven't looked at the save yet. What does Merlin think?

We will not hold the current front for sure.The distance to the front is too big to get reinforcements there in sufficient numbers. I will try a retreat to Leipzig. We need pikes and knights soonest to hold there. The biggest threat is Persia. They are running away. They already have muskets and soon cavs and there is quite a lot of movement at their border to Monty. Xerxes seems to be very hungry and Monty has nothing to counter him.

Wow, we're in quite a pickle. Building units everywhere, which is what we need. Only thing I can think to do is try to hold the line until we can build up more forces. I wouldn't put any money on our chances from here. Looks pretty bleak.

We lack our second core to have enough productive cities. The war with Bismarck was too tedious. It would be the comeback of the century if we manage to win this.:)

Chins up fellas, a bit of that British bulldog spirit ;)

I wish you luck, you've done well so far, but it doesnt get any easier

ok here is the second part :

4) 500AD continued
swordsman kills spear at Sverdlovsk
eSwordsman loses against spear at Sverdlovsk
try to bait the knight away from Berlin

IBT : Russia wants to talk, hm I cannot
two redlined knights lose to our redlined horseman at former Moscow promoting him elite
Berlin is captured I have a few swords in the area and try to get it back
Liverpool : sword -> sword
Russian pike/settler pairs appear to settle the new free space

5) 510AD : moving units

IBT : London : horseman -> horseman
Warwick : swordsman -> rax

6) 520AD : sword kills Russian knight in Berlin without a scratch
for the time being we gathered our troops in Hamburg, maybe we can hold there

IBT : Leipzig : walls -> cat
York : swordsman -> swordsman
Nottingham : settler -> swordsman
Canterbury : swordsman -> swordsman
Russia starts Sistine's
Persia starts Smith's

7) 530AD : moving and healing units

IBT : 3 Russian swords arrive at Hamburg
Liverpool : sword -> sword
Chinese start Smith's

8) 540AD : sword kills Russian sword at Hamburg
sword kills Russian sword at Hamburg
horseman kills the remaining Russian sword

IBT : Xerxes wants Incense, I forgot about the rules for the game on giving in to demands. I give it to him, otherwise the game would be over. A war against Russia and Persia we definitely cannot stand.
London : horseman -> horseman

9) 550AD : nothing much to do

I have gathered a bunch of units at Hamburg. There are several spears, swords, horsemen and our cats. Maybe we can hold there. There is a settler which I left unmoved in the East. I would settle where he stands, but maybe it is better to move it 1E to settle there. I am not sure.

The roster

Merlin - on deck
Sima
tupaclives
Lboogie13
Mirc
Markh - just played
McLman - UP

Any potential allies? :hmm: Good news that Fat Cathy wants to waste one of her productive cities wonder building. That should help. Also, if she's building more settlers and defensive units to settle the open ground, that should slow down her knight factories as well. Of course, she might just be sending out leftovers from the REX phase of the game.

I'm also wondering if you could bait her with an open city somewhere.

Ya know, this isnt the same as one that was all tupaclives. I'm bored. Screenshots people!

Got it, feeling a bit under the weather & will play tomorrow. Maybe somebody will come up with a brainstorm between now and then.

Sorry for the long delay, surpised I haven't been skipped. Anyways, I'm playing now.

Pre Turn
No enemy units in sight. Strategy is to hang on, and try to build up an offense.
Hit Enter,

IT
A Chinese Settler pair (boy they're far from home) appears to our NE, could possibly thwart where I want to plant our Settler.
Coventry: Sword -> Sword
French Building Smith's
China completes Copernicus's in Shanghai
China completes Magellan's in Nanking

Turn 1) 560 AD
Decide to take a chance and move Settler one more tile to settle next turn.
Send out a horseman to scout and he finds an uncovered Russian settler. He captures him then disbands the two workers. 2 Knights a Pike and a Spear are nearby.
Moving a stack to Yakutsk.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/560ad.jpg

IT
Chinese settler founds a town and thwarts our settlement.
Russian Knight kills horseman scout.
York: Sword -> Sword
Liverpool: Sword -> Sword
Nottingham: Sword -> Sword
French building Smith's (again?)
Persia building Smith's
Aztecs building Smith's

Turn 2) 570 AD
Move stack next to Yakusk
Moving swords to the N edge of our territory.

IT
Russian Knight attacks Hamburg and kills a spear.
London: Horse -> Sword
Canterbury: Sword -> Sword

Turn 3) 580 AD
Cats do nothing at Yakutsk, hold off attacking.
Vet Sword kills Knight outside of Hamburg
Sword loses to vet spear attacking Sverdiovsk, then another sword kills a reg spear in the same town.

IT
Russian Knight retreats while attacking our stack (sword).
Russia founds Vladivostok to the NW of Berlin
A 2nd Russian Knight and loses to another Sword.

Turn 4) 590 AD
Hamburg: Walls -> Cat
Two of our Swords kill a Russian Pike and Spear apparently heading for the new town.
Sword attacks Sverdlovsk and wins !!!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Sverdlovskfalls.jpg
Should be a pretty productive town.
Horseman kills redlined Russian Knight
Realize I don't have enough units to keep the stack healty and retreat from Yakutsk

IT
Liverpool: Sword -> Sword

Turn 5) 600 AD
Pretty quiet turn. Moving Swords to the front.

IT
London: Sword -> Cat
York: Sword -> Sword
Nottingham: Sword -> Sword
French complete Bach's in Paris
Persians building Smith's (again)
Chinese building Smith's

Turn 6) 610 AD
Another pretty quiet turn. Moving on Vladivostok with a couple of Swords and some horses
Joan has wine available. She accepts a trade. Incense for Wine.
Do some citizen management.

IT
France declares war on Persia
Newcastle: Rax -> Sword
Russians Building Smith's
We learn Feudalism

I'm going to leave it here. There is a research decision to be made. We can research Monotheism -> Chivalry and have knights in 49 turns at our current research rate, or go Engineering -> Invention -> Gunpowder in 61 turns to try for muskets. I have Engineering "picked" with no beakers invested because that is the way I'm leaning right now. There is full movement left on all units.

Score graph for the lurkers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/610adscoregraph.jpg

***The Save*** (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_620AD.SAV)

I'm gonna have to drop out from this game. I had hard time trying to find time to do my turns in Tupac03, but I don't think I can do the same here. You have six players still so should be ok.

Ack, sorry to hear that Merlin. Very sorry indeed.
I guess that makes Sima up, although I very much doubt we will pull a win out here it doesnt hurt to try! (no I most certainly have not conceeded the game already)

Turn 0 (620 AD)

- I see a war with Russia, and France and Persia at war. Okay...
- We are still in despotism. Bad. But then we don't have any cities. Also bad. Hmm... it'll still be despotism for a while.
- I have to wonder: when did we lose our rep? I add 1gpt to what an AI wants for their territory map, and then they say they would never accept the deal - what happened? I thought our alliance with Russia was over when we declared war on them, so that shouldn't be the cause... unless we had troops in their territory when that happened.
- Leipzig is going to need a courthouse in order to be productive, so I switch it to that.
- I think I'm going to do min run on engineering, with hopes of buying monotheism and chivalry.

Hit enter.

IBT:

Russian knight attacks and withdraws.
China begins Newton's (!!!).

Turn 1 (630 AD)

London: Catapult -> Marketplace
Liverpool: Swordsman -> Marketplace
Konigsberg: Spearman -> Worker

Attack and autoraze Vladivostok, losing a sword in the process (1-1).
Kill redlined Russian knight (2-1).
Lose a horseman to Russian knight (2-2).
Change Sverdlovsk to a barracks - can bring workers in from elsewhere.

Turn 2 (640 AD)

Canterbury: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Coventry: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Troops advance on Yakutsk.

IBT:

Two horseman, incredibly, manage to kill two attacking knights (4-2).
Persia completes Smith's Trading Company in Persepolis.
China completes Newton's University in Beijing.

Turn 3 (650 AD)

York: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Nottingham: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Hastings: Horseman -> Barracks (why didn't i notice this earlier???!!)
Kill 4 Russian units without a loss and capture Yakutsk (8-2).

Turn 4 (660 AD)

Buy 3 workers from China for 84g.

IBT:

Russian knight attacks a sword on a hill and dies (9-2).

Turn 5 (670 AD)

China and France are in Industrial Age.

Turn 6 (680 AD)

Kill a Russian knight with a swordsman (10-2).
Buy 1 worker from China for 28g.

IBT:

Defend against a longbow successfuly (11-2).
Russia attacks our exploring galley and loses (12-2).

Turn 7 (690 AD)

York: Swordsman -> Aqueduct
Nottingham: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Canterbury: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Warwick: Barracks -> Swordsman
Vladivostok rebuilt by the Russians... maybe I should wait for it to grow next time before attacking it.

IBT:

Russia attacks with 2 knights, we lose 1 sword (13-3).

Turn 8 (700 AD)

Kill a pike and capture Moscow (14-3).
Kill a redlined knight (15-3).
Lose 2 swords attacking a pike that wandered into our territory (16-5).

IBT:

Aztecs and Persia sign an alliance against France.

Turn 9 (710 AD)

*yawn*

Turn 10 (720 AD)

Berlin: Settler -> Catapult
London: Marketplace -> Swordsman
Coventry: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Newcastle: Swordsman -> Horseman
Units advance on St. Pete's.

IBT:

Russian spear pillages the incense next to Moscow.

Turn 11 (730 AD)

Liverpool: Marketplace -> Swordsman
Nottingham: Swordsman -> Aqueduct
Canterbury: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Konigsberg: Worker -> Barracks
Attack on St. Petersburg begins. We lose 3 swords in the process, but eventually the city falls (20-6). I decide to raze St. Pete.
Also killed the spearman that pillaged the incense (21-6).

Turn 12 (740 AD)

Kill a Russian pike and capture 2 slaves (22-6).
Incense deal with Persia ends, I see nothing that we can get from renewing it.

Turn 13 (750 AD)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman

IBT:

China and Persia ally against France.

Turn 14 (760 AD)

Liverpool: Swordsman -> Swordsman

Turn 15 (770 AD)

Canterbury: Swordsman -> Marketplace
Warwick: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Lose a huge stack of swordsmen attacking Kiev, many of them against redlined muskets (argh... 29-9). Raze Kiev in a fury against the RNG.

Turn 16 (780 AD)

London: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Coventry: Swordsman -> Horseman

Attack Smolensk (30-11), and this pops up:

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/8efb7d910bf247e4a2b2121ff67f692e.PNG

And then proceed to do raze Smolensk.
Oxford also founded southeast of Moscow.

Turn 17 (790 AD)

Hamburg: Catapult -> Catapult
Liverpool: Swordsman -> Aqueduct
Sverdlovsk: Barracks -> Spearman (send him to Canterbury as an MP when complete)
Kill a pikeman at Vladivostok (31-11), which has now grown to size 2.
Boudicea becomes an empty army in Oxford, I don't want to fill it up with swords.
Ahh... finally some trades.
Buy engineering from France for WM + 576g.
Buy monotheism from India for WM + Engineering + 31g.
Research set to chivalry, due in 15 turns at 60% science, making 2gpt.
Ummm... shame on me, only now do I discover a settler fortified in Nottingham. I guess I didn't read people's turnlogs thoroughly. I send him to the east, with hopes of poaching one of Persia's dyes.

IBT:

Okay, this is nuts.
Russia and France ally against Persia.
India and France ally against Persia.
India and France ally against Aztecs.

Turn 17 (800 AD)

Moscow: Worker -> Worker
Pillage a silks tile by Minsk... I wonder if Russia broke a deal this way...
Kill a spearman at Vladivostok (32-11).

IBT:

Persia lands units by Tblisi.

Turn 18 (810 AD)

London: Swordsman -> Horseman
York: Aqueduct -> Marketplace

Attack Vladivostok, lose a sword against a spear, and another Russian spear takes its place. That one gets killed (33-12).
Attack Minsk, lose a sword (33-13), kill a musket (34-13), kill another musket (35-14), and...

http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0003/15d2a96c53a043b7b203d4b16bf7da18.PNG

Nelson goes back to Oxford for safety. I think we could use him to rush the FP somewhere, but I have no idea where
This is followed by a spearman killed (36-14), a sword lost (36-15), a pikeman killed (37-16), and now we have the city of Minsk, silks, and three more Russian slaves. I drop lux to zero and raise science to 70%, chivalry due in 11 turns.
Russia is still trading with China and France.

IBT:

Aztecs and Persia sign MA against Russia. Like that'll help at all.
Persia lands more units by Tblisi.

Turn 19 (820 AD)

Newcastle: Horseman -> Horseman
Incense/Wines deal with France expires, I let it go and sell incense to Persia for spices + 14gpt.
Oh, we still have more incense. Sell incense to France for 16gpt.
Raise science to 100%, chivalry due in 7 turns while making 12gpt.
Lose a sword against a spearman at Vladivostok (37-17).

IBT:

Persia has captured Tblisi. I was actually planning on leaving that alone, so that we have an excuse not to finish off Russia, but that's probably a violation of the NOW rules.

Turn 20 (830 AD)

Leipzig: Courthouse -> Settler
Hastings: Barracks -> Horseman
Lose another sword at Vladivostok, but second one takes the city (38-18).

Founded Dover in the east, we steal a source of dyes from Persia but it's not hooked up.

Current Situation

So uh... I accidentally played an extra turn (shame on me, I just noticed two turn 17's in the log)
- We're still in despotism, probably would be a good idea to revolt after we get chivalry researched.
- Our rep is still worthless, I have no idea how we'll recover from that.
- I've left Nelson activated in Oxford, I'm pretty sure I want him to rush the FP but we might need to rearrange a few cities in the north. There's also the empty army in Oxford, it will probably have knights by the time we use it.
- Russia is down to two cities, there's a stack right outside Odessa which should fall next turn. Sevastopol is probably to the northeast.
- I changed a bunch of sword builds to horsemen so that they can be upgraded once chivalry comes in.
- Speraman is 3 turns away in Sverdlovsk, send it to Canterbury as MP when it finishes.
- I didn't have time to check who we have to declare war on next, but it we might want to declare war on China, take out their cities on our continent as soon as possible, and then try to get techs from peace treaty. Persia is also willing to pay us for an alliance against India, might be worth a try when the Indians get down to one city.

Roster

tupaclives (UP)
Lboogie13 (on deck)
Mirc
Markh
McLman
Sima Qian (just played)

The Save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_830AD.zip

:worship: Brilliant turnset Sima! Just brilliant.

I thought we were in considerable trouble after Markh's turnset, but you really turned it around.
I'll try and get to it today, no guarantees though as of late RL has been really hectic. I'll try though.

As for our rep thats a real blow, no idea how we lost it but we could probably find out where by backtracking through the saves.

Anyway, I'll see if I can get to it right away.

Pre-flight

The war with Russia is nearly over. However that means we need to be DoW on someone else very soon. I backtrack and find that the next on the list is Persia...
Thats a small problem... ah... to say the least.

Sandbagging or not finishing off a defeated foe simply to not go to war with the next one on the list is illegal. When two or more civs are met simultaneously (via contact sale, perhaps), it is player's choice which order to declare on them.


As for now I start plotting out a dotmap for our FP site. Switch a lot of northern cities to Settlers.

IBT - Persian Knight moves into our territory.

Turn 1 - London: Settler --> Pike (I want 2 pikes in each city on the persian border, its not much but its the best we can do).
Our bombardment of Odessa is a complete and utter failure. But then our first vet sword kills the musket defending taking 1hp damage and promotign to elite. and the next vet kills the spear for 1 hp loss, promotes as well and we take Odessa!

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4609/picture180zi.jpg

Now I have to make a life-death decision.
We could follow the variant word-for-word and wipe out Russia now (they just have Sevastpol left and its 2 turns from destruction)... but that would result in Persia, who are next on the list, utterly destroying us in all probability.

Thoughts? My thoughts is that in this case we should grant ourselves a 10-turn grace in which we can hold off on killing Russia to allow us time to re-organise our defences. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

My personal opinion is to delay the war with Persia for long enough so that our lux deal with them expires... I think that's a legitimate excuse, right?

EDIT: It would be nice if Tblisi flips back to Russia, then we'd have an even better excuse :) But it seems that even if we wanted to sandbag the AI, Persia might not let us - they might destroy Russia on their own.

I don't know. I think we should follow the variant rules, even if we know it would be bad for us. If we ended up winning it would be tarnished. If we do hold out, however, I think Sima's reasoning is sound. One of the 'House Rules' is to protect our reputation. Hold out only until the lux deal is over.

agree with Sima on the lux deal... albeit reluctantly. I would like to continue with the full variant but I think if we don't hold on Russia the 20-odd Persian Cavalry will wipe out all that matters in a single turn.
played a fair way thru the turns now, Russia is still alive, we have ok defences o nthe persian border, enough to survive 1 turn of attacks anyway. We have the FP, but the 1st core isnt even completely built yet.
I'll be busy most of the rest of today but should be able to finish the turns tonight.

Great turnaround, lads. :salute: Once good thing to your advantage is that Persia doesn't seem to be too popular right now. I wouldn't expect too much out of Gandhi, but Joan might be able to keep him busy for a bit. And going to war with the X-man will certainly decide this game one way or another. Good luck.

Agree with Sima... albeit reluctantly
Of course this should be the only instance where we are required to do this :nono:

Turn 1 (continued) - start sending troops home. Worker moves etc... zz
something interesting to note is that India is as behind as us, except they have Chivalry and republic. I'm think we try and buy theology or invention once Chivalry comes in and then try and trade for Republic.

IBT - Persian cavalry start heading for Russia... does anyone have any idea how we are goign to handle cavalry?

Turn 2 - Nottingham: duct --> pike, warwick: horse --> horse
move swords and cats into range of Sevastpol, cunningly forcing the AI (when they arrive) to have to trek through Russian tiles and unroaded forests before arriving in an attack position.

IBT - Moscow flips :mad:

Turn 3 - retake Moscow with a horse (3-0).
continue to re-organise our defences. just realise somethign about our lost rep.
We cant get anything with MA's.
This is a blow, in a SP game (where I go out of my way to maintain my rep) when the time came to take on Persia I would DoW by signing a MA with an advanced power for all the techs I could get. That won't be an option here and with no gpt able to be used in deals I really am wondering how we are goign to catch up in tech.

IBT - Russia found a new city

Turn 4 - London: Pike--> Pike. Get in position to destroy new city. Dyes come online.

IBT - persia asks for an embargo v indians, I ask whats in it for us and they say nothing. I tell them to go suck a fish.

Turn 5 - Nottingham: Pike --> Pike
With Chivalry in 1 i drop science down to 70% to give us +34gpt.

IBT - Chivalry comes in, set to Invention at 100%, due in 14. We need to try and trade our way up the ranks.

Turn 6 - Liverpool: duct --> knight
Start positioning settlers for the FP... I have made this decision without consulting the team, and on reflection I probably should have.... lets hope that it proves to be a good decision.
Raze St Petersburg, killing 1 spear (4-0)

IBT - not a whole lot.

Turn 7 - Coventry: Market --> knight, London: pike --> knight
We need more funds to help us develop so I sell silks to France for 15gpt, pity we can't sell her more, she's too wily to buy silks from us twice... maybe she'll want more in a couple of centuries.
upgrade 2 horses to knights (80gp each)
Found New Yakutsk

IBT - persia lands a force near sevastpol

Turn 8 - York: Market --> knight, Nottingham: pike --> knight
upgrade another horse to a knight, prob our last for a while.
zzz

IBT - persian frigates redline the defenders of Sevastpol.

Turn 9 - Found Brighton, rushbuild the FP. Found Norwich.
zzz

IBT - Russia asks for peace, I'd love to give it (we could get Theology, Invention, Republic, World Map and gold for it, but no I tell her she must die.

Turn 10 - a few builds finish, the big one though is.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3306/picture33jm.jpg

Load up our knight army.
Dial up India and trade our TM for there TM + 2gp.
I'll play 12 just to get us back on a nice number (950)

IBT - zzz

Turn 11 - Found Leeds.

IBT - zzz

Turn 12 - zzz again.

Ok here's my take.
We are in trouble. No amount of military success is going to help us out of that. Persia will crush us when war comes, although we might put up a bit of a fight now.
The second that lux deal expires with persia we are to finish russia and DoW on Persia. I feel guilty about holding out for the lux deal to finish.
Can we win this game? yes, but in order to achieve it we need goals.

Our goals atm are

1. Don't get killed by Persia. If we can hold the line, or even push Persia off our continent we will win. Simply because we can pull the world in against Persia, and sit on our little continent and build our strength, and bide our time. Obviously if we get killed by Persia we die and the game is over so yeh, this is the number 1 priority.
2. Get into Republic, I have opted for research into Invention rather than republic (which would take 4 turns less) in order to achieve this (yes a bit paradoxical I know) I am confident we will be able to trade Invention for Republic with India then a revolt will be very important. No Republic = no win in this case.
3. Get our second core up and running. This combined with Republic and not being dead will have a massive impact on our chance of success.

I am not used to fighting in a situation this unbalanced (Persia has cavs, rifles and prob infantry soon, we have pikes and knights). We are playing RL tech levels, the AI is playing in fantasyland.

Oh well I'm just rambling now.
Lboogie13, give it all you've got.
Good luck my friend

What would you need Republic for? Aren't you pretty much in an AW game?

in a SP game (where I go out of my way to maintain my rep) when the time came to take on Persia I would DoW by signing a MA with an advanced power for all the techs I could get. That won't be an option here and with no gpt able to be used in deals I really am wondering how we are goign to catch up in tech.


ONE OPTION TO TRADE GPT IS TO LINK RENEGOTIATION OF PEACE TO THE DEAL
THIS OF COURSE MEANS WAR IF ANY OF THE CONDITIONS OF THE DEAL ARE BROKEN BY EITHER SIDE. ALSO IF THE CIV BEING TRADED WITH IS LARGER THE DEAL WILL BE MORE IN FAVOUR OF THAT CIV oops, just noticed had caps lock on

This may allow you to get a MA for gpt, just be aware there are strings attached

Except that there are no peace treaties in this game. Once a DOW goes out, it's not over until it's all over.

Another question about the variant rules: when it comes time to go to war with Persia, do we have to actually declare on them, or can we cheat a little and ask them to remove or declare? If we're allowed to let them declare on us, republic might be worthwhile. Otherwise, I think we'll get stuck in this war for way too long and might have to stick lux up to like 50-60% (I've had to do that in solo games before, not very exciting).

I don't believe we HAVE to declare on Persia, just go to war with them so a 'remove or declare' might be a good idea. Also
@ Simple Monkey - The variant rules are that if THEY declare on US that its not over till its over.
I think Andronicus's sugestion is sound but we need to be careful to make sure that the peace by itself won't require all our treasury just to get that back to acceptable, never mind buying techs.

You will have to skip me when my turn comes. Sorry. (read my sig for an explaination)

:bump:

Lboogie?

This is ridiculous.
Markh you are up, you have 24 hours to pick up, if not then McLman is up.
Lboogie13, if you do this again you will be dropped from the roster.

I got it. I will give it a shot this evening.

Sorry, could not get to it yesterday as I was too tired after work. Will try in a few hours.

Do we really want to go republic with permanent war ? Even if we declare a little later on Persia ww will hit us fast and we have to revolt again.

According to the rules we have to consider this game a loss. If we win it now I in my case cannot consider it a win although it would be a great turn around, but do not misunderstand me I will for sure continue to play this game and try to keep us alive.

0) 950AD : looks good.

IBT : China starts Universal Suffrage
Xerxes asks us to move our workers out of his territory. I accept as Russia is still alive and Persia is next only. Your time will come my friend. :crazyeye:

1) 960AD : found Reading
just moving some troops

IBT : Xerxes lands troops at Sevastopol

2) 970AD : found Birmingham

IBT : India and France sign an alliance against Mao

3) 980AD : nothing

IBT : Mao wants an embargo against Gandhi, I refuse. Mao still has not learned his lesson from Tupac02 :lol:
Aztecs and France sign a peace treaty
Persia starts Universal Suffrage

4) 990AD : I take out the Russians. I see no reason not to take them out. The bombardment of the Persian frigates at Sevastopol gets annoying.

IBT : we get a new part of the palace

5) 1000AD : nothing

IBT : we get invention. trade it to Gandhi. He gives us rep and 58 gold for it.
revolt : damn 7 turns of anarchy

6) 1010AD : nothing

IBT : zzz

7) 1020AD : found Richmond and Exeter

IBT : Xerxes cancels the lux deal
sell incense to Joan for 13 gpt

8) 1030AD : nothing

IBT : nothing

9) 1040AD : found Cambridge

IBT : France and Persia sign peace

10) 1050AD : nothing

There are still 3 turns of anarchy until the new republic of England will be established. If we decide to delay the war with Xerxes some more time I would consider to build forts around our two cities towards Persia. Pikes fortified on forts could hold against cavs. There are several Persian units, so if we ask them to leave he will declare on us most likely and ww would not hurt that fast.

Roster

tupaclives
Lboogie13 - skipped
Mirc - skipped
Markh - just played
McLman - UP
Sima Qian on deck

Hmmm... this variant is dying here somewhat. First we broke the spirit of the variant by delaying taking out Russia... then we don't declare as soon as we wipe out Russia... we aren't exactly following the letter of the law on this variant... I think any victory we do get will be tainted. No more of that, of course the Persia war will decide the game so there won't be the opportunity to do it again.
The incense deal already expired and we have killed russia so we have completely disregarded the variant. :(

Oh well, McLman is up, I think we now have to take the bombardment variant just to keep the game interesting.

:bump: Mclman?

This SG is really slow. Too bad I can't play here in Germany :(

Sorry, playing right now. Will post in a couple of hours.

Well I started my turns, things have gone South. I re-read the last several posts in the thread, and am confused. :crazyeye: Here's what I've got so far.

Pre-turn:

Back to the variant. Tell Xeres "Remove or Declare!"
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Xeresdeclares.jpg
4/4 Knight attacks 4/4 Cav and loses 3-4
4/4 Knight attacks 1/4 Cav and wins 1-0
Army captures 2 workers
4/4 Knight attacks 4/4 Cav and wins 4-2

We're in bad shape. 2 Persian Cavs and a Knight near our lightly defended (& undefended towns)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/badshape.jpg

Hit Enter

IT
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/getsworse.jpg
Things get worse
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Exeterfalls.jpg
4/4 Cav attacks our 4/4 sword and we lose 1-4. Cav captures 10 of our workers
As I type the above too much else happens. Lose a bunch of units, have a few workers captured.

Turn 1) 1060 AD
5/5 Sword attacks 4/4 Immortal and wins 4-1. Now also have defender in Leeds.
4/4 Sword attacks 4/4 Immortal and wins 4-2.
4/4 Knight attacks 3/4 Cav and loses 2-4, and Cav promotes to 3/5.
4/4 Knight attacks 3/5 Cav and cav retreats (2-1)
4/4 Sword attacks 4/4 Knight and Knight retreats (3-1)

IT
Chinese Cav rides right into undefended Birmingham.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/birminghamfalls.jpg
Chinese Sword captures 4 workers
Chinese 4/4 Cav attacks 4/4 Horse defending Moscow and we lose 0-4
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Moscowfalls.jpg
Chinese cav rides into undefended Richmond and burns it to the ground.
Persian 1/4 Cav attacks our 1/4 Knight in Warwick and loses! Our Knight promotes to elite.
Persian 4/4 Cav attacks 4/4 Knight and wins (1-4) then retreats
Persian 1/4 Knight wins vs our 1/4 Knight and captures a worker

Turn 2) 1070 AD
Our 3/3 Horse attacks 3/3 Chinese Knight and wins 3-2, promoted to 2/4
Cats too far away to do any good against Persia. Need to try to remove the 2 Chinese towns in the Northwest.

IT
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Leedsfalls.jpg
A Persian ironclad appears
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/navalbattle.jpg
We lose many other battles.
We are now a Republic

Turn 3) 1080 AD
Now that we're a Republic, 9 towns are on the verge of rioting due to war weariness.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/warweary.jpg
It WAS decided to go Republic right? I almost clicked Monarchy when the anarchy was over, but went with what I thought we decided.
Raise lux to 20%. Hire some specialists (Entertainers needed in some places) to thwart the war weariness.

I'm sorry but I need to stop here and ask if I screwed up by declaring on Persia. I've re-read the last several posts and what is the bombardment variant? Was I supposed to do something else. We were in trouble enough with Persia. Xeres didn't waste any time finding someone else eager to eradicate us. Our military is greatly depleted. And our swords are no match for the opponent's guns. Here is the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_1080AD.SAV)in case anybody has any ideas.

I'll finish (or re-start?) my turns after some input.

I don't really think you could have done much differently. Maybe Monarchy should have been the gov but thats about it. I'm out of ideas as to how to win from this position tbh. But I would rather lose playing the variant than win but abandon the variant. Keep playing, if we lose then so be it. At least we'll go down swinging.

I am back in my country, so when my turn comes I will be able to play (if I'm not too busy with school).

I also definetely agree we should rather lose playing the variant than win by abandoning it.

I think the last turns could have been much better, but I don't blame McLMan for this. I might be very wrong, because I didn't try the save.

Alright, swinging away

Turn 3) 1080 AD (Continued)
A stack of 4 swords and 5 cats comes together to try to take out the 2 Chinese cities in the North. The Chinese throwing units at our back door is way more than we can handle back there. Will bring our units on the Eastern Front back into our own territory to fight defensively for a while.

IT
China razes Cambridge
Many Persian ships bombard our imrovements.
Lose a couple of units
London: Knight -> Knight
Coventry: Knight -> Knight
Newcastle: Knight -> Knight

Turn 4) 1090 AD
Moving on NewChengdu, tightening up in the East

IT
2/4 Sword kills invading 4/4 Chinese Longbow
5/5 Sword retreats a 4/4 Chinese Cav
Lose 2 swords in the East
Whole lot of bombardment
Sverdlovsk: Harbor -> Courthouse
French are building Universal Suffrage

Turn 5) 1100 AD
Lux slider to 40% to quell riots. Gunpowder in 16 now.
Stack next to New Chengdu

IT
Brighton is caputred by the Chinese
We lose several units in the East
Civil disorder sets in despite my countermeasures from the previous turn

It's kind of late, I need to go to bed, and I've had the save a really long time. If the next player wants to pick up, that's great. No moves have been made this turn.

*****The Save***** (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac04_1110AD.SAV)

Hmm... I didn't realize it was my turn. Sorry guys, but I need a skip... waaaaayyy to busy at this new job right now...

I think that means Tupac is next.

Actually I'm going away in about 10 minutes and won't be back till next friday so I'll need a skip as well.
However as it is I don't see us getting anywhere from our current position. Unable to make peace with persia and probably China won't talk for a while either I really don't see us pulling anything out here.

If Lboogie wants to pick up the save he can play his first (and the way this is going, in all probability his last) turnset. If he doesn't pick it up then Markh is up. Whoever does get it (i probably won't see the turneset till I get back) just do your best. I have little to no expectation of success now so don't blame yourself if anything bad happens.

roster

Sima - skipped
tupac - skipped
Lboogie - up
Mirc - still on skip (?)
Markh - on deck
McLman - just played

No, I'm not still on skip, I posted a reply some days ago saying that I'm back.

If nobody takes the save until tomorrow morning I will take it.

Got it. I was waiting for LBoogie13, but he went a lot over the 24 hours limit. Tupac said he could be dropped from the roster if he does this again. It's up to him what to do.
I will play either tonight or tomorrow morning (it's 6:30 PM here).

I can't load the save :wallbash:
However if I load it in C3C it works... :hmm: I know I can't load it in C3C because other players won't be able to load it again, so what can I do?

I just d/l'd the save above, and it opens fine for me with Vanilla. You had me worried that I might have played & saved in C3C. I also verified with CAII.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/itsciv129.jpg

markh, try you and take the save, then after your turnset maybe I will be able to load it. I tried many times... It doesn't work for me. I know my Vanilla has some paranormal stuff, but I tried many times and it's clear.
However I don't want this to die. It seems a very hard challenge to win it from now, but I am still curious to play and to see what happens with the other turnsets.

ok, I will take it this evening

1) 1110AD : take and raze New Chengdu
war weariness is killing, we revolt and draw 7 turns of course

IBT : our pike and spearman kill one Persian cav and retreat another one at Dover

2) 1120AD : not much

IBT : much bombardment by Persian frigates and ironclads
another Persian cav suicides at Dover

3) 1130AD : retake Brighton

IBT : China retakes Brighton

4) 1140AD : retake Brighton

IBT : Persia lands a refle and 3 immortals in our undefended core

5) 1150AD : shift some troops

IBT : Persia declares on France, so no bombardment this IBT
Persia takes Hastings and lands more troops

6) 1160AD : nothing much I can do

IBT : Leipzig and Dover fall

7) 1170AD : nothing

IBT : Berlin falls

8) 1180AD : we become a monarchy

IBT : -

9) 1190AD : nothing

IBT : -

10) 1200AD : nothing

There is not much we can do than watching Persia and China ripping us apart.

Got it! I can load this one.... :woohoo: Although I don't know what we could do...

I'll play tomorrow (I mean, later today :()

I played. Here is what happened.

Pre-turn: Nothing.

Turn 1: We don't have any more disorder in any city.

Turn 2: We lose Norwich to the Chinese

Turn 3: We lose a city to the Persians (one that is placed on the west coast of the continent)

Turn 4: The Chinese and the Aztecs sign a military alliance against us.

Turn 5: Nothing

Turn 6: We capture New Macao from the Chinese.

Turn 7: We settle Dover. China captures Canterbury.

Turn 8: We take Canterbury back. CHINA HAS INFANTRIES!!!!!!!

Turn 9: We capture Tayeo (not sure about spelling) from the Aztecs

Turn 10: We settle another city, near the Chinese ones.


Conclusion: We capture 2 cities. We lose 2 cities. We settle 2 cities. Gunpowder is due in 6 turns. Aztecs do not have Gunpowder. Our infrastructure is much better, we have +3 GPT, we have lots of troops near each border. However, we have no chance of winning since China has Infantries and Persia is huge and has lots of Cavalries, Ironclads, Rifleman and Railroads.

The upload server of CFC is down, so I will upload the save somewhere else. Please wait, I will do it now.

Do we have to win by Domination or Conquest? Although our Reputation is down, and we are backwards in science, and we have 4th score, so I don't see any way of winning this. If Persia makes some stupid mistake maybe we still have a chance, but it is so unlikely, that I would rather expect one of our Archers to beat an Infantry. I am sure we won't get destroyed, (at least not in the near future), but IMVVVHO we have no chance of winning by any victory type.

The save is here (http://www.fileden.com/files/10668/Mirc_tupac04_1285_AD_final.SAV)!

Who's up?

I agree, it looks pretty bleak. We have too much invested into it to give up now though.

Who's up?

I agree, it looks pretty bleak. We have too much invested into it to give up now though.

Mirc and me swapped, so it is your turn.

Hey guys finally got back from holidays and took a looksy at the save... ouch :eek:

I agree though, strangely enough I want to see this through to the end, call it optimisim or masochism, whichever you prefer :lol: but I'd like to see how it finishes up!

McLMan ?:bump:

Pre-turn
We're managing to hold on, but that's about it. Hire Taxman in Hamburg and switch Oxford Taxman to Clown in order to prevent riots next turn.

IT
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/NewMacaofalls.jpg
London: Pike -> Sword
Sevastopol: Cat -> Cat

Turn 1) 1290 AD
We kill a Chinese Cav and a Persian Cav with 2 of our Knights. Other than that, not much else to do. Knights that are left are wounded. Infantry in chinese cities. Nowhere near enough numbers to attempt to take a city right now.

IT
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/Odessafalls.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/doverfalls.jpg

Turn 2) 1295 AD
Kill a Persian Longbow with a Knight

IT
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/sevestafalls.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/minskfalls.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/leedsfalls.jpg

Turn 3) 1300 AD
With the loss of the silks, many cities go into disorder. Lux slider up to 50% & still need to hire specialists.

IT
Persia lands 4 units next to undefended Sverdlovsk
London: Sword -> Sword
Warwick: Knight -> Sword
Newcastle: Knight -> Sword
Get a Palace extension with the high lux slider.

Turn 4) 1305 AD
Move Knights next to Hastings, will attempt to get Horses back next turn.
Retreating & abandoning cities on the Norther peninsula. We need to consolidate our military resources. Rolling out from the furthest city (Reading) and will join units from Oxford, New Yaktusk, Brighton as we come through.

IT
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/sverdlovskfalls.jpg
York: Knight -> Sword
Liverpool: Knight -> Sword
Persia completes Shakespear's in Persepolis

Turn 5) 1310 AD
Attack Hastings with 5 knights. 1 knight is killed, 4 are redlined and withdraw. There are 2 infantry in Hastings, one is now an elite.

IT
Aztecs offer peace, have to say no.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/McLMan/Tupac02/04-Turnset4/vladviostokfalls.jpg
Nottingham: Sword -> Sword
Konigsberg: Galley -> Sword

Turn 6) 1315 AD
Pulling back wounded units to heal, will need to add some swords and try again when healed.

IT
We don't lose any cities!

Turn 7) 1320 AD
Healing

IT
Can't put any more pictures in the post. We lose Nottingham.
York: Sword -> Sword

Turn 8) 1325 AD
Kill an Immortal with a Knight

IT
What seems like 100 Chines Ironclads pillage around Teayo & Warwick

Turn 9) 1330 AD
Still healing & re-grouping

IT
We lose Teayo

Turn 10) 1335 AD
Re-grouping.

Post turn: Worst 10 turns I've ever been through. I've lost many games, but not so overwhelming as this.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Tupac04_1335AD.SAV)

OMG, we are lost :(

Yes... its not pretty is it? I am willing to put this one down to a learning experience and accept that its lost. I don't really feel any pressing need to keep going until we actually get the message 'you have suffered a humiliating defeat' I get the message already, if you get what I mean :crazyeye:

Well guys it was fun (i found it fun anyway) but ultimately we went wrong somewhere. Without doing a thorough assesment my guess is that we maybe rushed through Russia when she was down to quickly. I'm not talking about us sitting outside their last city, I'm referring more to maybe building some infra and the defences for the persian front once Russia was gassed before we finished them off. The fact that the foe we had to fight after Russia was on the opposite end of the continent didn't help matters at all.

Well good luck to you all and I hope to play with you again at some point

I think Germany as the first neighbour is not the civ you really like to have in such a game. The war with Bismarck just took us too long. It is the second time I play such a game meeting Germany first and end losing.:crazyeye:

Germany is a b14ch to start next to in any kind of AW game, at least if you're playing above Monarch. Free archers and spears from turn 1 is kinda hard to deal with. My hat's off to you guys. :salute: Is anyone going to play this out to the last city? There would be a noble beauty to it, I think.