Post nerdy stuff here

Thanks for the thread. Here's some data

T9 Demographics

Nerds of the world unite!

Here's Turn 8's demographic data. We can have fun comparing 7, 8, and 9.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6986/turn8demographics4uq.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turn8demographics4uq.jpg)

More on that later :)

SPREADSHEET MADNESS!

Okay, here is a basic spreadsheet for the demographics. The file is Excel 2003. And my Excel skills are not that great so emphasis on the word basic. In any case, I set up each demographic category as its own worksheet in the file and will track each stat as the turns come around. We can post our clairvoyances and data in subsequent posts.

Edit - Thought I'd post a hard link here to the reference thread that will be used (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163098) to make sense of all this. Also, I have noted just by the progression of data in the demographics that each players growth, unit production, research, etc, all happens directly after we hit enter and declare our turn over, ready to email it on to the next team. So it is important to keep in mind for interpretting data that team Loco will have an additional turn over the other teams in our demographics.

Pindicator... I have supreme Excel skilz. I've been screwing with formulas and automatically updatig data from external sources since I was 19 (regrettably 10 years ago). I'll look at it today during Ana's naptime and see if I can spruce it up. This is going to be a bit different from the civ3 spreadsheet since we can't be sure whose info is where. But there does seem to be more info which is always good. :D

Pindicator... I have supreme Excel skilz. I've been screwing with formulas and automatically updatig data from external sources since I was 19 (regrettably 10 years ago).

In that case, may I bow before the master and then hand over the spreadsheeting duties. I know I will be able to figure out some of who has grown / built / researched what just because the numbers of turns 7, 8, & 9 vary enough.

I think my use of Excel has been like a forbidden passion: occasionally my senses get better of me and I plunge into it, but never long enough to establish a deep relationship :lol:

I've been screwing with formulas and automatically updatig data from external sources since I was 19 (regrettably 10 years ago).

:rolleyes: By 30 you're all used up. Make the most of the upcoming year you whipper snapper.

The Stats for T10

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/t10.jpg

Stats for T11

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/t11_01.jpg

Stats for T12

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/T12_02.jpg

all this data and all that sunshine -- I don't know which one to pick! (fyi - the sunshine has been winning all week)

I'll look at it next week after my new kid is born

T15 Demographics.

In other data we remain in second place...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/t16_01.jpg

Things are improving. If I were to speculate I would say that the neighbors have been losing scouts to bears and such.

That is very good.. are we being rewarded for not scouting to far? A question about the population stat: Is 21000 just the nominted pop for a size 3 city? Because we are 2nd on only 6000. Hmm, actually so is rival worst... so
5x 6000 + 21000= 51000, divided by 6 is 8500, but avg is 9750. This doesn't make sense. Anyone know more?

There are only 4 rivals... :p

Well, that explains a little, and excuse me if its Sunday morning and I'm a bit hungover, but that makes it 45000/ 5 = 9000. Still doesn't fit.:confused:

T17

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/T17_001.jpg

Another day older and deeper in debt!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/T18_0002.jpg

T19 data

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/T19_0001.jpg

T20

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/t20.jpg

Inneresting. We have jumped from 2nd in population to 1st. Looks like the whip may be out. If so I would expect to see a score change soon.

Turn 21 ....
127538
Sorry people, never posted pics in here before. Any tips for sizing, etc?

no that's fine. I can actually see it. Where as Photobucket and Imageshack have been blocked by work. it appears as though someone started a worker really early or has been pop rushing.

Somebody still is at pop 1? What's more likely: a settler out of the gate or two workers in a row? I think two workers in a row...

Probably, unless someone wants to hook up a nearby bronze and start pumping axes. :eek: Unlikely that anyone is close enough to anyone else for that, though.

Pop rushing at low population and a large food source nearby can be very effective.. I've used it in 2 games now. Although there is a problem keeping up in science.

T22 - Do we have Creative opponents - it looks like, or there is a new town down. There has been little change in score, just land area.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/MTDG/T22.jpg

If its a new city, it explains the civ with pop1 from the previous turn.

Even with pop-rushing we would see the civ hit size 2 for one turn before sinking back to size one. Unless the demographics for that turn were missed, I have never seen the lowest above size 1 (but would explain two civs pop-rushing in this manner!)

Maybe no pop rush at all, perhaps they just queued worker/settler and never made it to 2?

yeah... it might be dinsog driving this civ into the ground. :lol:

Turn 23 stats exactly the same as turn 22.

Turn 24. Finally some movement.
128217

T25 Stats and leaderboard

wow, we are #1 in GNP, Mfg & food!!! we are 4th in land area (doesn't count water tiles) and we're 2nd in score. This is good, but early score does not indicate future success (it's usually the opposite :( )

Turn 26 stats:
128728

London is also the top city in the world.

The latest view of the world as numbers know it.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1930/demo5zj.jpg

T30 stats..............

Turn 31 stats.
129888
129887

Turn 32.

I found the leading cities screen interesting.

130073130074

The score leader (King Kong?) has a religion so that #1 city belongs to them. The two laggards probably moved their settlers before planting.

Demographics for Turn 33:

130204

Here are some pretty pictures:

The area around London showing our newly trained warrior, Billy Bob, on his way to check out the natives 130372

Here is more detail of London itself (maybe build a mine or cottage next?) 130373

Here's the usual demographics 130374

And here's the Top 5 cities in the world - we're still at number 3130375

Time to drop in and spill my dos centavos on that demographics screen.

I love that we are #1 in GNP and Population and (even better) Crop Yield. Go us! But with that in mind, take a look at land area: we are #5! Part of that is because land area is specifically that: it does not count water tiles. We can figure that King Kong is ahead of us due to the culture from their religion, a couple others are probably ahead of us from being entirely inland, but I bet there at least one civ out there with a second city down already. Since land area doesn't count towards score for 20 turns, I'm guessing it's either Aloha or Saggioun -- one of those two civs just hit size 3 in their capital.

We've also fallen to #3 in top cities: anybody know what that goes into account for determining the top 5 cities.

I'm in the mood to crunch numbers, but I need to go to bed... :( Oh well, some other time

(Not the right spot to say this, but I would mine a plains hill with that worker next. Commerce can go in the next couple towns.)

Well I've been conspicuously absent, but pindicator if you look at the max land area it's only 25 tiles. that's 4 more than the "fat cross". if King Kong has expanded once more then they are getting more water tiles than we are since that should have added 16 more tiles. A new city would at least hog up 5 unless they wanted a pennisula city and those aren't too profitable yet.

So my conclusion is that 3 of the other teams are currently working on or have a settler since their are 3 cities at pop 3. It appears as though one other civ waited like us until we were pop 4 before starting their settler.

Do we have slavery yet? a rush right at the end would only drop us down by 1 pop. just a thought.



RE: top cities.. I believe that culture is a major player in there. so we might have 2 civs with the culture fungus. Are there 2 religions out? if so that's what it is. If not, I thought that there was a creative civ here, but I might be mistaken.

T35 demographics

Turn 36. Check out mfctrd goods.
131058

Turn 38 Demographics. Sorry I missed the last one, I was in a rush.
131534

Here's the geek's numbers.

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/346/demo2st.jpg

Turn 40 2400BC
132106

Turn 41 2360 BC

132548

Turn 42

We're in 3rd! :(

132993132994

Turn 43
133329

Turn 44

The Leader is living up to his name.

133597133598

turn 45

I didn't post the pic, but we are back in 2nd on 108.

133909133910133911

Turn 46

Usual demographics stuff
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6682/demographicssy7.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=demographicssy7.jpg)

Power graph - not very useful yet
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1858/powerkh5.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=powerkh5.jpg)

Top 5 cities
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6189/top5citiessg1.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=top5citiessg1.jpg)

Turn 47
134651

Turn 48

Question for the number crunchers. If we are 1st in GNP, prod'n, food, soldiers, and pop, why are we so far behind?
134799

being 12pts back this early in the game probably means that they researched something that we didn't.

@ sweetie, just because we are first doesn't mean that we've always been first. The demographics show an instantaneous point in history. The things that are taken into account for score is

1) population (we're number 1)
2) land (we're number 3)
3) technology (dunno)
4) wonders (presumably the same as everyone else)

So that 13000 sq. miles that's different between us and #1 in land is either enough to overcome any lead we gained in population (or techs). One thing that I've found in [civ4] is that early leads in score means exactly jack squat. Sometimes you don't want to be the tallest blade of grass as you'll be the first one cut by the lawn-mower. ;)

Wise words Tubby the Sage, very wise. :goodjob:

Here's turn 49 2040BC

134992

hmm.. land area does seem to be drooping .. What's our plan for the next settler? I'm not rushing it, just curious.

From Turn 51, 1960 BC:

Demographics
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8617/demographicsfi5.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=demographicsfi5.jpg)
Top 5 Cities
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/174/top5citieswh0.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=top5citieswh0.jpg)

Turn 52, 1920BC:

I didn't take a picture, but our city has dropped to #4 on the top 5 list (Epsilon jumped us).

Demographics:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2971/civ4screenshot0006ac4.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0006ac4.jpg)

And a bit of speculation:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5645/civ4screenshot0005dr2.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot0005dr2.jpg)

What building has Epsilon created? Anyone think they can infer the culture due to the rate of change in culture? (I'm thinking it's a library.)

If it's a library, then they have Writing and thus can open borders. We should check this next turn.

(without being able to see imageshack pictures) it could be an obelisk in their second city. Surely everyone has a 2nd city by now.

Here's the demo screen. We're up everything except culture on the Leader.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8272/piffledemooe6.jpg

Demographics from Turn 54:

136499

Demographics for turn 55:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4282/demographic54ql7.jpg

No demographics as we are in anarchy - but here is the current leaderboard

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37083/image006.jpg

And the primary reason

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37083/image005.jpg

So can anyone from the pocket protecter brigade illuminate this graph for me? I assume the first big jump is our initial culture pop and the second one is the founding of our next city.

Can any intel be divined from this?

I'm not one of the geeks (though I wish I could be) around here but...
That graph is the "power graph". What I disseminate from the graph is what's happened militarily. Warrior builds and promotions increase power. The reason "the leader" went down is they may have lost a unit to a barb?

so reading the graph with Whomp's interpretation, The Leader only has 2 warriors. with no promotions for either. But didn't the warrior that we met have a few promotions already?

I think that the power corresponds also to population. Which could perhaps indicate pop-rushing. Do they have BW yet?

Theirs did have 2 promos but our warriors are highly promoted. We have one warrior with 3 promos. I'm sure they have BW or else they wouldn't agree to a deal for metal casting....at least we're not giving them metal casting till they do.

I thought that the deal was for all of the "metal techs" for alpha & writing.. hmm we might need a clarification and itemized list.

Good point. I think it's implied but as in house counsel Killercane will tell you nothing should be implied.

Writing = 120 :science:
Alpha = 300 :science:

Metal Casting = 450 :science:

Hence the 30 beaker catch up.

ah... superb I hereby grant you official nerdy style glasses
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/52950/nerd glass.jpg

Turn 57

137081

Here's the new demographic. We seem to have dropped off a bit.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/706/demoet9.jpg

Here's the demographics.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/228/demoeu8.jpg

Turn 61

138142

Turn 63

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5436/demographicyu9.jpg

Turn 64 1440 BC:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5841/bca4.jpg

Demographics for turn 65 1400 BC

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1337/demographicoz5.jpg

Turn 65:

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1117/demoag3.jpg

Here's the demographics working the 2 hills instead of the 2 water commerce.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1562/demoscreenwx3.jpg

Here's what it looks like if we work the commerce tiles instead.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1639/demo2qr7.jpg

Turn 69
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6272/demo1mi6.jpg

Turn 70

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3452/demo2oy2.jpg

Even with Beauro we seem to be +1 in MFG. Seems like Leader is pushing commerce hard in their capital :(

Yep they're focusing on cash big time. It's likely because they know we're not a military threat.

Maybe we can become one... No more dealings with MIA/The Leader

Copper and Galleys might help with that. Plus there were some nice city spots NORTH of the Isthmus...

I can't imagine how we could get beat to Glight but I don't want to jinx it.http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/766/demoyt4.jpg

Wow. Our production and health are awesome. We may not be the brightest boys on the block, but we can outwork everyone else. That might be handy when the axeman cometh...

The demographics for turn 72

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3917/demofh2.jpg

Our mfg lead is pretty nice. The lead rival has 17, the worst rival has 9, and the remaining two are between 13 & 9.

The crop yield stat is keeping me from being too enthusiastic. Food = power a lot in this game, so some of the other teams may have yet to hit their stride for their current cities since our GNP & MFG are high but crops are tied for worst.

Pind--we can ramp up food again once we have happiness handled. Remember we're also popping a settler in Hamburger so crop yield is a non factor right now (pigs and copper still need to be hooked up there).

In Treacle Village we'll grow next. We probably need to finish the warrior build before focusing on growth there.

The capital will grow in 3 (gold in 2) so another citizen will be added there. That citizen could be added to the forest grass before it's chopped and then to the coast for food and commerce.

Demos for turn 73. We lose a notch on GNP.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7951/demojy1.jpg

Turn 74-1040 BC

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5818/demold7.jpg

The demographics for turn 75-1000 BC

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9237/civ4screenshot0041pu9.jpg

What are our QSC stats? :mischief:

I'll be interested to see the impact of the GL on our GDP...

turn 76 975 BC

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5158/demoqd2.jpg

Is there a resource/primer that would help me undertand the numbers, what impacts them and how to parlay our stellar lead in Manufacturing into a (hopefully bone-crushing) victory?

You take the hammers and use them to beat plowshares into swords! :hammer: :ninja:

But to stay ahead to have a bigger hammer than the other guys you need to drive Food and Commerce.

And I think the War Academy has an article on the graphs and tables, or maybe the Strategy and Tips section.

I put this in post #4 of this thread, but here is a link to understanding just what the demographics data means:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163098

Turn 77
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8397/demogralq1.jpg

Thanks Pind.

Turn 78 925 BC

http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/820/demoguz5.jpg

Turn 79 900BC
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1882/demozv0.jpg

875 BC--The year of Great Light
Demographics
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4883/deomgraphicrt0.jpg

Comparision to the Leader
Crops
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5954/cropyieldxk3.jpg
GNP
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6505/gnpmu4.jpg
Mfg. Products
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6341/mfgproddq2.jpg
Power
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2892/powerrl8.jpg

Keep pounding those plowshares into swords. Nice piece of work PiffleKing!

Deomgraphics for 850 BC

Back to a tie for 1st on mfg products with the mine finishing at Hamburger.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2774/demorm5.jpg

825 BC

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6748/demoyn2.jpg

The demographics for 800BC
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/4371/demobd4.jpg

775 BC turn 84

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1035/demoml3.jpg

Demographics 750 BC
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6705/demo750lh4.jpg

725 BC

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/3695/demosa7.jpg

700 BC

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9909/demoia4.jpg

675 BC

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/39/demobu1.jpg

650BC

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7283/civ4screenshot0117nw1.jpg

625 BC

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/699/demogd8.jpg

600 BC
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3968/democo4.jpg

550 BC

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1653/demovq5.jpg

525 BC
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6724/demodt1.jpg

475 BC
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5531/civ4screenshot0147po8.jpg

Wow. We may not have changed too many of our standings, but we increased a lot more rapidly than anyone. Good job!

450 BC
http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/7033/civ4screenshot0151va0.jpg

425 BC
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7650/civ4screenshot0147wq7.jpg

400 BC

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3135/civ4screenshot0149eh0.jpg

375 BC
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/796/civ4screenshot0151pz7.jpg

350 BC
http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/9863/civ4screenshot0155dy8.jpg

Turn 102 - 325BC

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2928/mtdg325bcdemonn0.jpg

what does the life expectancy tell you?

I think it's a measure of health, and approval is happiness.

Turn 103 - 300BC

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3876/mtdg300bcdemodg1.jpg

Turn 104 - 275BC

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/7985/mtdg275bcdemoli2.jpg


Top 5 Cities

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5933/mtdg275bctop5zr1.jpg

Turn 105 - 250BC

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5263/mtdg250bcdemomq0.jpg

Turn 106 - 225BC

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5495/mtdg225bcdemocm1.jpg

Turn 107 - 200BC

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2814/mtdg200bcdemomm9.jpg

The change in the power rating was because Aloha passed us. We and Aloha are both building troops. Epsilon appears to be stagnant. IIRC the power graph is delayed by one turn, whereas the demographics screen is current.

Turn 108 - 175BC

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3782/mtdg175bcdemoaq3.jpg

Turn 109 - 150BC

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1460/mtdg150bcscoreba5.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2405/mtdg150bcdemoru2.jpg

Turn 110 - 125BC

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4199/mtdg125bcdemoor0.jpg


Top 5 Cities:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6391/mtdg125bctop5mr6.jpg

63 Gold! :eek: Did someone pop a great merchant or something?

63 Gold! :eek: Did someone pop a great merchant or something?No. Epsilon grew their capital to size 9 -- they are now working another citizen.

Turn 111 - 100BC

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1080/mtdg100bcdemoii5.jpg

Turn 112 - 75BC

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3407/mtdg75bcdemovl7.jpg

Turn 113 - 50BC

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6262/mtdg50bcdemood5.jpg

Turn 114 - 25BC

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3916/mtdg25bcscoreec7.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9706/mtdg25bcdemopq8.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/1368/mtdg25bctop5cx0.jpg

Turn 115 - 1AD

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2389/mtdg1addemofw2.jpg

Turn 116 - 25AD

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6584/mtdg25addemo3at.jpg

Turn 117 - 50AD

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4767/mtdg50addemouc7.jpg

Turn 118 - 75AD

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4758/mtdg75addemo6ow.jpg

The scorecard shows the dramatic rise in score of our trading partners ...

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8771/mtdg75adscore1fv.jpg

Turn 119 - 100AD

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7095/mtdg100addemoyc1.jpg


Notice Innovia's jump in score from last turn ... Epsilon's score went up because they completed Compass.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8531/mtdg100adscorecardxl2.jpg

Turn 120 - 125AD

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7282/mtdg125addemoba4.jpg

:hmm: I just noticed in the above screenshot that we picked up another 8 foreign trade route income.

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8826/mtdg125adscorecardxc4.jpg

Turn 121 - 150AD

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9913/mtdg150addemopq1.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4691/mtdg150adscorecardht7.jpg

Turn 122 - 175AD

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4530/mtdg175addemotu7.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/7791/mtdg175adscorecardrz4.jpg

aloha got a nice jump... I guess that was machinery?

aloha got a nice jump... I guess that was machinery?The jump from Machinery would have been between 125AD and 150AD. I'm not sure what caused the jump between 150AD and 175AD.

I do know that they picked up Meditation and got another pop point in their capital. Did they get some extra pop in one of their other cities? Maybe ... two or three pop plus Meditation could cause a jump that big ... Don't know, to be honest.

Good eye, Tubby! :goodjob:



Edit: :hmm: Take a look at the 200AD scorecard below. Both Epsilon and Loco had a pretty good jump. We can speculate that maybe Loco picked up Machinery in a trade. But Epsilon? Not a clue.

Turn 123 - 200AD

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/484/mtdg200addemoye7.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/3943/mtdg200adscorecardid8.jpg

Turn 124 - 225AD

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5822/mtdg225addemoat2.jpg

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4609/mtdg225adscorecardxt2.jpg

Turn 125 - 250AD

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2937/mtdg250addemosr6.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9969/mtdg250adscorecardkq7.jpg

Turn 126 - 275AD

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4178/mtdg275addemobn9.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7348/mtdg275adscorecardzz9.jpg

Turn 127 - 300AD

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8783/mtdg300addemoso4.jpg

Don't get too excited about that first place showing in the GNP column. I just :whipped: it all away ...

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8126/mtdg300adscorecardcc7.jpg

Also note that we were able to finally wrest control of last place away from Loco. :shifty:

Turn 128 - 325AD

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8159/mtdg325addemoxl5.jpg

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/4859/mtdg325adscorecardii2.jpg

Turn 129 - 350AD

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8119/mtdg350addemoza1.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6886/mtdg350adscorecardjm8.jpg

Turn 130 - 375AD

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2889/mtdg375addemona6.jpg

Notice how the :whipped: is keeping us firmly in last place?

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7929/mtdg375adscorecardct1.jpg

Despite the score, we are actually doing fairly good. Not as well as Epsilon ... but still good.

Turn 131 - 400AD

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3001/mtdg400addemofn4.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4724/mtdg400adscorecardhy1.jpg

Turn 132 - 425AD

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3463/mtdg425addemouy0.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3084/mtdg425adscorecardqv3.jpg

Turn 132 - 425AD

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1631/mtdg450addemoml8.jpg

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/1711/mtdg450adscorecardny0.jpg

what's sad is that we have the lowest pop but the highest gnp. I've played this game before and it doesn't bode well for our future if the others get aggressive.

Turn 134 - 475AD

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9987/mtdg475addemoju4.jpg

Aloha is now the GNP leader.

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/7118/mtdg475adscorecardqu8.jpg

Turn 135 - 500AD

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1098/mtdg500addemoss2.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9576/mtdg500adscorecardet7.jpg

Turn 136 - 520AD

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2535/mtdg520addemohb7.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1151/mtdg520adscorecardux2.jpg

Notice that Innovia's score has jumped by 19 points. This means that they just acquired either Theology or Guilds. Not sure which since we don't have the pre-reqs.

Turn 137 -540 AD

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7339/demoxh1.jpg

Turn 138 - 560AD

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2723/mtdg560addemowo5.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5899/mtdg560adscorecardpm8.jpg

Turn 139 - 580AD

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5707/mtdg580addemowv7.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/521/mtdg580adscorecardco2.jpg

Turn 140 - 600AD

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/904/mtdg600addemoew1.jpg

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8017/mtdg600adscorecardfi9.jpg

Turn 141 - 620AD

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3025/mtdg620addemofl5.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7013/mtdg620adscorecardej0.jpg

Turn 142 - 640AD

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/952/mtdg640addemolo1.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1943/mtdg640adscorecardwd4.jpg

Turn 143 - 660AD

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4076/mtdg660addemorc7.jpg

You should notice on the GNP line where Epsilon turned research back on.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8119/mtdg660adscorecardgm3.jpg

Turn 144 - 680AD

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/745/mtdg680addemosk5.jpg

Our GNP numbers are looking pretty good. Those production and food numbers, though, are highly worrysome.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4716/mtdg680adscorecardrn5.jpg

Turn 145 - 700AD

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7889/mtdg700addemoay8.jpg

Notice that we dropped to 3rd in troops ... See the attachment for the power graph ...

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9682/mtdg700adscorecardva2.jpg

Turn 146 - 720AD

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/640/mtdg720addemoyo3.jpg

Notice that we have dropped to 3rd place in GNP. Evidently Aloha has turned on all of the bunsen burners. That rival best 101 score is Aloha.

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3504/mtdg720adscorecardfk1.jpg

we're the worst in food and mfg goods.. .this is how I normally end up in MP games.. Shouldn't we be smarter than this?

Turn 147 - 740AD

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5683/mtdg740addemodr1.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4600/mtdg740adscorecardpi6.jpg

Turn 148 - 760AD

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8259/mtdg760addemoyd3.jpg

I have no clue where the extra 4 hammers came from in the Mfg number.

The rival best GNP number once again reflects Aloha ... they are currently accumulating cash at 0% research.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6256/mtdg760adscorecardye5.jpg

Turn 149 - 780AD

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2585/mtdg780addemonw1.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9174/mtdg780adscorecardwy2.jpg

Turn 150 - 800AD

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/457/mtdg800addemodv2.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/9470/mtdg800adscorecardwf4.jpg

Turn 151 - 820AD

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9448/mtdg820addemodz0.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7766/mtdg820adscorecardzv7.jpg

Turn 153 - 860AD

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6982/mtdg860addemozq3.jpg

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4812/mtdg860adscorecardtw7.jpg

Turn 154 - 880AD

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8383/mtdg880addemodn1.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9383/mtdg880adscorecardpf2.jpg

Turn 155 - 900AD

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/7895/mtdg900addemomj2.jpg

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9431/mtdg900adscorecardhv5.jpg

Turn 156 - 920AD

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9706/mtdg920addemokh0.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/98/mtdg920adscorecardbq0.jpg

Hey we arent holding down the cellar in food anymore!

Turn 157 - 940AD

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5163/mtdg940addemowk8.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3181/mtdg940adscorecardrl5.jpg

Turn 158 - 960AD

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/849/mtdg960addemoct4.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8229/mtdg960adscorecardol9.jpg

Turn 159 - 980AD

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6029/mtdg980addemoum9.jpg

That is Aloha, by the way, that has turned on all of the bunsen burners.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3418/mtdg980adscorecardlk0.jpg

Turn 160 - 1000AD

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2559/mtdg1000addemokb4.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2678/mtdg1000adscorecardob4.jpg

Turn 161 - 1010AD

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5517/mtdg1010addemoxo3.jpg

You might take a look at our Mfg number. We are still ranked 4th, but we have at least crossed the average line. And while still maintaining our GNP ranking.

Aloha is pumping out just as many beakers as us, but at the expense of their production. Unfortunately our own production isn't going to improve much until we get some population in our newest cities.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/252/mtdg1010adscorecardwg6.jpg

Turn 162 - 1020AD

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3537/mtdg1020addemokn8.jpg

It looks like Aloha has dialed research down a bit. They must be building something. We will probably start dialing our own research down a bit once we can start building Cavalry.

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3860/mtdg1020adscorecardsy9.jpg

Turn 163 - 1030AD

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8386/mtdg1030addemokd0.jpg

Check out those troop levels!

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3273/mtdg1030adscorecardol9.jpg

Turn 164 - 1040AD

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5756/mtdg1040addemotg9.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8100/mtdg1040adscorecardby2.jpg

Turn 165 - 1050AD

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5779/mtdg1050addemoge6.jpg

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/176/mtdg1050adscorecarduz7.jpg

Turn 166 - 1060AD

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1356/mtdg1060addemony0.jpg

Our production numbers aren't looking as anemic as before. In fact a lot of our demographics are showing improvement. Most likely attributed to the increase in population.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3797/mtdg1060adscorecarddd4.jpg

Turn 167 - 1070AD

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9830/mtdg1070addemokb1.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9676/mtdg1070adscorecarddp9.jpg

Turn 168 - 1080AD

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2678/mtdg1080addemotl5.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6366/mtdg1080adscorecardor0.jpg

what about the power graph... did Aloha get a jump in power?

Yes, they did get a jump in power. However, it can be attributed to them gaining access to Gunpowder. The power rating includes not just troop levels, but also certain military techs.

I'm attaching the current power graph, as well as the GNP and production graphs. They tell an interesting story.

153122 153123 153124

Note that Aloha's and Loco's GNP both turn up at the same point in time. Coincidence?

Turn 169 - 1090AD

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6892/mtdg1090addemovc8.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4761/mtdg1090adscorecardau8.jpg

153236

Turn 170 - 1100AD

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6168/mtdg1100addemoeb7.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5648/mtdg1100adscorecardzn8.jpg

The 2nd place score was only temporary. I went on to :whipped: us back into 3rd place.

153396

And I've attached the power graph again ...

Turn 171 - 1110AD

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6009/mtdg1110addemotj1.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/789/mtdg1110adscorecardnl5.jpg

and another power graph ...

153660

Turn 172 - 1120AD

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8789/mtdg1120addemoyb2.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9505/mtdg1120adscorecardjk1.jpg

Needless to say, Aloha is no longer ahead of us in score by the end of the turn. :shifty:

153771

It is rather difficult to make out in the attached power graph, but ... Loco has just barely edged past Aloha in the power ratings.

Have to wait and see if that changes once the :whipped: begins in earnest.

Turn 173 - 1130AD

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3673/mtdg1130addemogr0.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/305/mtdg1130adscorecarddr8.jpg

153907 153908 153909

when did we start out-producing Aloha? I thought that they had a production powerhouse. Or was that just because they had the HE in their capital?

Epsilon really has been producing shields lately... I wonder when we'll see them start their war.

when did we start out-producing Aloha? I thought that they had a production powerhouse. Or was that just because they had the HE in their capital?I don't know if "powerhouse" is the word that I would use. But, yes, earlier on in the game, Aloha had much more raw production capacity than we did. But, I'd failed to notice that we have passed them up in production ability. Thanks for pointing that out to us, TR. :thumbsup:

My concern about the HE in the capital was Aloha's ability to turn out 2-turn Cossacks. I'm not as concerned about that since Epsilon sent over those pictures. Their capital has a lake on the other side, meaning they have a lot of water around their capital. It really isn't an ideal HE site. Although, the extra food from the lake could make for some good whipping, much like what I am doing in Brilliant.

Turn 174 - 1140AD

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1672/mtdg1140addemonz4.jpg

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4636/mtdg1140adscorecardij4.jpg

154068

Turn 175 - 1150AD

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1121/mtdg1150addemoze6.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3088/mtdg1150adscorecardfx6.jpg

154140

Turn 176 - 1160AD

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9974/mtdg1160addemonw2.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3913/mtdg1160adscorecardxz6.jpg

154237

Turn 177 - 1170AD

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9598/mtdg1170addemoaf6.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/176/mtdg1170adscorecardms4.jpg

154327

Turn 178 - 1180AD

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3725/mtdg1180addemold9.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7770/mtdg1180adscorecardps4.jpg

154449

Turn 179 - 1190AD

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1898/mtdg1190addemowb7.jpg

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3655/mtdg1190adscorecardas4.jpg

154519

Turn 180 - 1200AD

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6193/mtdg1200addemoef6.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9889/mtdg1200adscorecardsz0.jpg

154580

Aloha has gotten quite a boost on the power graph this past turn. :scared:

Turn 181 - 1210AD

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8680/mtdg1210addemopv2.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1612/mtdg1210adscorecardbl2.jpg

154701

Turn 182 - 1220AD

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6214/mtdg1220addemomh6.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/623/mtdg1220adscorecardro4.jpg

Turn 183 - 1230AD

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1471/mtdg1230addemovp6.jpg

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3875/mtdg1230adscorecardjr5.jpg

Turn 184 - 1240AD

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4663/mtdg1240addemokc2.jpg

That is Aloha pulling up the rear in the GNP stats ...

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2429/mtdg1240adscorecardpt0.jpg

Turn 185 - 1250AD

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1355/mtdg1250addemobp4.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9502/mtdg1250adscorecardad2.jpg

Turn 186 - 1260AD

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/50/mtdg1260addemokv2.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2772/mtdg1260adscorecardcj7.jpg

Turn 187 - 1270AD

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/102/mtdg1270addemote4.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5079/mtdg1270adscorecardwk3.jpg

Turn 188 - 1280AD

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2775/mtdg1280addemotu5.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6130/mtdg1280adscorecardqa1.jpg

Turn 189 - 1290AD

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5999/mtdg1290addemovb8.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8463/mtdg1290adscorecardcx9.jpg

Turn 190 - 1300AD

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1073/mtdg1300addemomq1.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9431/mtdg1300adscorecardca6.jpg

Turn 191 - 1310AD

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5421/mtdg1310addemowe1.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7553/mtdg1310adscorecardju8.jpg

Turn 192 - 1320AD

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1274/mtdg1320addemohf6.jpg

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/8528/mtdg1320adscorecarduq8.jpg

An updated power graph:

156118

Our Cannon builds don't seem to be reflected in the graph ...

Turn 193 - 1330AD

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8351/mtdg1330addemoxn8.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7371/mtdg1330adscorecardoq1.jpg

Turn 194 - 1340AD

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/3433/mtdg1340addemogb4.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8808/mtdg1340adscorecardjy5.jpg

Turn 195 - 1350AD

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6863/mtdg1350addemozh7.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3484/mtdg1350adscorecardjs9.jpg

Turn 196 - 1360AD

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1197/mtdg1360addemovn9.jpg

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/6519/mtdg1360adscorecardtu6.jpg

Turn 197 - 1370AD

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1699/mtdg1370addemoqe2.jpg

Notice that Loco has passed us up in GNP. Not a particularly good sign ...

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/7969/mtdg1370adscorecardxd4.jpg

Turn 198 - 1380AD

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4446/mtdg1380addemoew1.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6994/mtdg1380adscorecardcc1.jpg

Turn 199 - 1390AD

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8181/mtdg1390addemovj1.jpg

You may notice that we improved to 2nd in GNP. This is because Epsilon decided to pull back.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9564/mtdg1390adscorecardli0.jpg

Turn 200 - 1400AD

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6445/mtdg1400addemogn4.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4280/mtdg1400adscorecardbo3.jpg

Turn 201 - 1410AD

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4805/mtdg1410addemoeg0.jpg

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8674/mtdg1410adscorecardwb3.jpg

Turn 202 - 1420AD

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6641/mtdg1420addemolo3.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/852/mtdg1420adscorecardqc0.jpg

Turn 203 - 1430AD

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1905/mtdg1430addemomc5.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7645/mtdg1430adscorecardml8.jpg

Turn 204 - 1440AD

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9371/mtdg1440addemocx2.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3472/mtdg1440adscorecardmv3.jpg

Turn 205 - 1450AD

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3490/mtdg1450addemoke2.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3513/mtdg1450adscorecardsq4.jpg

Turn 206 - 1460AD

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6356/mtdg1460addemoqx7.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3818/mtdg1460adscorecardbs3.jpg

Turn 207 - 1470AD

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9933/mtdg1470addemosb6.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7830/mtdg1470adscorecardys0.jpg