http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ARROW_19600_30816.gifhttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ARROW_19600_31083.gif

Here's the segue:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_Chief_Seattle.gif
Every part of the earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every meadow, every humming insect. All are holy in the memory and experience of my people.

We know the sap which courses through the trees as we know the blood that courses through our veins. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters. The bear, the deer, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the dew in the meadow, the body heat of the pony, and man all belong to the same family.

The shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water, but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you our land, you must remember that it is sacred. Each glossy reflection in the clear waters of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.

The rivers are our brothers. They quench our thirst. They carry our canoes and feed our children. So you must give the rivers the kindness that you would give any brother.

This we know: the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. All things are connected like the blood that unites us all. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.

One thing we know: our God is also your God. The earth is precious to him and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator.

What will happen when the buffalo are all slaughtered? The wild horses tamed? What will happen when the secret corners of the forest are heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills is blotted with talking wires? Where will the thicket be? Gone! Where will the eagle be? Gone! And what is to say goodbye to the swift pony and the hunt?

The end of living and the beginning of survival.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ARROW_19600_30816.gifhttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ARROW_19600_31083.gif

Sorry Lurkers, but the roster for this one is already set. Names will be posted to the roster as the invited de-lurk.

Roster:
Sir Bugsy
gmaharriet
Whomp
Admiral Kutzov
scoutsout
SimpleMonkey

Game settings:

This game will be played on Monarch level as Iroquois. The usual victory conditions are enabled, Random Seed preserved, Cultural Conversions ON, Scientific Leaders OFF. We have 8 Randomly selected opponents set to Normal Agression.

Here's the start:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_START.jpg

Our World:
Size: Standard
Landmass: Continents, 80% Water
Climate: Wet
Temperature: Warm
Age: 5 Billion
Barbarians: Raging

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ARROW_19600_30816.gifhttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ARROW_19600_31083.gif

Here's the Tree-Hugger Variant:
No chopping forests.
No roading except to build our trade network (connect cities) and connect to resources (bonus resources may be roaded). Edit: This includes roading to other civs' borders (trade network, "future acquisitions, etc.)
Railroads are allowed on the existing road network. (Tree-huggers like high speed rail/mass transit...)
Any tile that doesn't have a resource must be "conserved", by leaving it in its natural state, or by planting trees on it.
"Agri-business" is out. No irrigating unless it's a food bonus tile. Edit: Tiles may be roaded and irrigated in order to "connect" these resources. We'll plant trees to mitigate the "damage" done by the "extra" roading/irrigating.
No mining unless the tile contains a resource (bonus, lux, or strategic).
Clearing Jungle and Marsh tiles IS allowed, provided it is done in accordance with our "Wetlands Mitigation Plan". For each tile cleared, we must plant one tile of forest.
No city improvements that enhance production and contribute to "global warming" are allowed. This means no factories, Offshore Platforms, Manufacturing Plants, or Coal plants. You can build Hoover Dam, but without factories, what's the point?
Commerce improvements that don't create pollution (markets, harbors) ARE allowed. Commerce improvements that create pollution (Commercial Docks, Airports) are not.
Upon the discovery of Engineering we've got to plant forests everywhere we reasonably can. We don't have to plant trees to the point that we restrict population growth, but we will eventually want trees all over the place.

Here's >>> The Save <<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/shwh01_4000bc.SAV).

Xxxxx checking in. :D

This sounds like a game of OCP to me. Would that be accurate?

This sounds like a game of OCP to me. Would that be accurate?Most likely...which has me wondering if I ought to roll a start with more land and less water...

Xxxxxxx Xxxxxx

requests permission to come aboard

Reporting for duty. :wavey:

BTW, what is "OCP"? :confused:

Optimal city placement. My thinking was it is more important to build cities near resources and luxs (optimal cities) since they can be mined and roaded. As well we'll need to avoid a lot of non workable tiles. A typical cxxc or cxxxc may not work real well here.

Okay - we've got the Admiral and Harriet on board... I thought at least one other would have checked in... since the invitation was a reply to a note from him. The top spot in the roster belongs to another left coast type...who tends to check in later... so it may be tomorrow until we actually get going.

What do you guys think about the 80% water factor, when a loose city placement is taken into account? On one hand, we should be able to found some coastal cities...which is good for commerce. OTOH... it may constrain our placement options even more...

Good luck guys and gma! :thumbsup:

:)

here's another look with a different set of graphics.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6998/trees8ht.jpg

Monkey likes trees. Checking in. :salute:

Um, I'm assuming we can be strategic with our road placement?

Commander Bugs reporting for tree hugging duty. :salute:

I recommended to Scout that he take the first roll with random settings.

Sooo...That's our start. No going back now. Scout lead on.

Looks like we're all here. :clap:

You bunch of hippies.
Enjoy this variant.

Okay, the roster's set! Dang... I forgot to put something in the initial posts about RBCiv/LKTender 'house rules'. I don't think that'll be a problem with this crowd... even Igor avoids exploits.

@Bugs: Can I cajole/con/browbeat or otherwise impose on you to get us going with the first twenty?

Some of us were chatting on MSN about opening moves. AK suggested moving the worker before moving the settler. I was thinking about moving the settler north, because that looks like coast up there, and we may need the commerce from a coastal site. Some scouting curraughs couldn't hurt either. AK was thinking worker east or west. I like east a little better (if we move the worker) because then he could start roading towards the incense.

(Edit in paragraph above.)

I started an 80% water game on emperor last night. This should be interesting under this variant.

This should be fun to lurk in. :D

If your start is near the northern end of the map, you can consider moving your settler west, onto the hill, so that curraghs will be going in the direction of the AIs, not around your continent first. ;)

OK, playing now.

I agree with the worker east move. We'll see what we get after that.

OK playing after I take my daughter out for driving practice. Fatherly duties come first.

Edit - BTW, what does SHWH stand for?

I see being coastal and having access to fresh water as good things. It doesn't look like anything does that unless the lower coastal tiles are saltwater, not fresh, or if we take the settler up north. If we do that, then we won't have an immediate goodie hut pop. At Monarch many good things can come from a goodie hut. I just remember that if we pop it before we have any military, we eliminate the possibility that it'll spew hostiles. We could pop with the worker immediatly and see what happens. That would give us a better idea what that southern water is. I dunno where we are as far as the world map goes, but a worker move west onto the hill would show more map. And leave him further away from where he'll likely need to go to work first. Hmmm, confused yet? :hmm: I am.

Gee, this thinking out loud is kinda fun. :crazyeye: Is this pretty much what you guys went over? What's the completely different plan that ignores all of the above? :lol:

Edit: Didn't see that Sir Bugs had already started playing. I will await developments.

It seems the coasts are close, both north and south. There must be a location that is both on the lake and on the coast and in a good spot.

Gee, this thinking out loud is kinda fun. :crazyeye: Is this pretty much what you guys went over? What's the completely different plan that ignores all of the above? :lol:

Edit: Didn't see that Sir Bugs had already started playing. I will await developments.
I'm very curious too. All we discussed was opening moves. We didn't talk about the variant itself except to not cut trees. I can't even imagine what sort of victory we may go for, so I'm looking forward to much discussion and would be grateful for any directions suggested for my turnset(s).

@Tomoyo: :wavey:

@Bugs: Fatherly duties first 'n all that's fine. Let's run this on a 24 to "got it" and 48 to play. As for "SHWH"... Second Hand WarHorse. A pretty rough rip-off of "The Grumpy Old Monk". :D

@SimpleMonkey: Thinking out loud is certainly allowed here... we're making this up as we go along. :crazyeye:

@Harriet: We should probably avoid any modern era endgames in this one... though it isn't very "hippie-ish"... conquest or domination (the earlier the better) is probably the order of the day.

@Rik: Coast won't be a problem... I just hope we find some rivers. I played some at emperor level on a continents/80%... and this could easily turn out more like a 'pelago map.

@Harriet: We should probably avoid any modern era endgames in this one... though it isn't very "hippie-ish"... conquest or domination (the earlier the better) is probably the order of the day.
Aha! A slugfest. :) And here I was thinking we might paddle our birchbark canoes to Alpha Centauri. :p

BTW, I loved your opening with Chief Seattle. Very appropriate for an ecologically sensitive game. :goodjob:

Iroquois on archipelago are frustrating, to say the least. We shall see.

Not that I'd presume to spend too much time on how to win this one (though it often pays to know the goal and then push for it all out), but I kinda like the idea of a solar-powered starship. With Dark Star playing on the bridge 8-track player, of course. :smoke:

Some initial thoughts. This variant pretty much takes away one of our traits. We will need to optimize every tile.

4000 BC – Move the worker east and…
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/861/scout4000bc1vb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Given the variant, that’s a no brainer in Bugsy’s head. Move settler north.

3950 – Found Douglas fir. I figure we ae tree huggers so I’ll name our capitol after a type of tree. Start roading. Start a warrior. Start on the wheel at max.
3800 – warrior=>warrior
3600 – warrior=>warrior
3450 – warrior=>curragh
3250 – curragh=>settler
3200 – Our eastward exploring warrior spots a green boarder.
3150 – It is the Celts. They are up BW, CB & WC. Of course none of those are for sale.

3000 – Here is the venerable monk’s latest publication:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/6297/bedereort9dx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

2950 – Our westbound curragh finds a crossing point.

Wheel=>BW We have horses just to our west.

2710 - Our curragh runs out of coast to the west. We found Ponderosa Pine (keeping the tradition). That pops the hut to our south and we get some yokels. That means I have to bring the warrior from Doug Fir south and stop roading with our worker. In the meantime, we run into a warrior wearing an orange tunic. He works for a pasty faced woman named Elizabeth. We ask what she will give us for the wheel and she says BW & CB. We accept her offer. I call on Brennus and see what he has to offer. No deals there. We are now researching WC.

Doug Fir: curragh=>warrior
Ponderosa Pine is ransacked by a barb and we lose 3G.

2590 – We defeat the attacking barb at PP.
DF: warrior=>barracks

After action report: Here is our world-
Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01_-_2550_BC.SAV
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7576/shwhwest4ri.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4998/shwheast3qy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not sure what kind of map we are dealing with. There is a river to our northeast. The curragh is almost at its mouth. Are we allowed to irrigate to a cow (like the one to the south by Ponderosa Pine) and then get rid of the irrigation to it?

We probably need to expand as much as possible now. Given this landmass, we w.ll also probably have a lot of fishing villages,

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01_-_2550_BC.SAV

This is a "got it", but as always I sure have a LOT of questions. I've looked at the save, but I won't play until after some discussion. I'm a builder at heart and almost always go toward Philosophy first, so I'm gonna need a lot of help here.

These are just notes I took while looking at the save, but they are questions. :)

After rax in DF, settler, worker or granary?
Settle east toward river? on hill to allow irrigation to any food bonus we may find (if we can do that) or on coast? Could sure use a prelim dot map for city placement.
Colony on incense?
After Warrior Code, then what?
Town build popping GH produced yokels? I've never seen that. Any idea why?
Worker next in PP? Mtn road to horses? With all those mountains, we're going to need lots of worker turns just to connect everything.
Which direction did England come from?

@Bugs, I just love your idea of naming towns for trees...absolutely perfect!!!

@Bugs: Nice opening! Looking at all that marsh... we are going to have to plant a lot of trees... :dubious:

...as for whether we're allowed to irrigate to the cow... I'd say yes to that, and "maybe" to pillaging the improvements. We could just plant some more trees to make up for the "extra" damage to the environment.

Proposed amendment to the "Mitigation Plan": For each ordinary tile we improve, we must plant 2 tiles of trees.

Bugs <--- got us started, and found lots of wetlands to mitigate
gmaharriet <--- Up!
Whomp <-- On Deck

After rax in DF, settler, worker or granary?I rather doubt we'll be able to afford a granary... maybe a warrior or an archer... or a worker.
Settle east toward river? on hill to allow irrigation to any food bonus we may find (if we can do that) or on coast? Could sure use a prelim dot map for city placement.There's a choke point to the east. I'd like to claim that.
Colony on incense?The capitol will eventually claim that. This is "only" monarch level... you can keep 'em happy harriet! :p
After Warrior Code, then what?I dunno... Horseback riding? :devil:

And I liked Bugsy's idea of naming the towns for trees. Douglas Firs are truly impressive trees. I'm also fond of Cypress trees... and White Oaks. And of course... some say the Loblolly Pine is the state flower of a state I used to live in....

I agree with scout on most things.

1. I'd go for a settler next and put it on that forest tile at the choke to the east.

2. We won't need a lot of workers in this game so we can probably get by with just one more until we start fighting those swamps.

3. We wanna know how to ride the horsies. :devil: Gee, what can you do on a horsie?

On the trees - name the cities after trees from your area. A little diversity. Up here in the northwest we have firs, and pines, and firs and more pines. Did I mention pines? :rolleyes:

On the trees - name the cities after trees from your area. A little diversity. Up here in the northwest we have firs, and pines, and firs and more pines. Did I mention pines? :rolleyes:
Being from California, I'm partial to both Coastal and Sequoia Redwood, but we also have lots of Valley Oaks and Eucalyptus (originally imported from Australia, but they are taking over), plus Elms, Ash, Firs in red, white and silvertip, and even some Douglas Fir. And down south, of course, are the palms and cacti...lots to choose from.

Thanks for the tips, Bugs. Don't ever think I'll be offended by too much detail in your afterplay suggestions. Scout, Whomp and AK can tell you that I'm somewhat limited in my game knowledge, and I'm all over the board for level of play. Most of what I do know came from them and Bede...one new concept at a time. Seems like I'm the perennial trainee. :p

I'll play tomorrow night.

Are we sure there's not a landbridge to the the celts to the SE of the GH?

Are we sure there's not a landbridge to the the celts to the SE of the GH?
Good thinking, AK! That's exactly what it was. :D



Preturn - See nothing needed, so hit <enter>

IT - PP warrior -> warrior

1. 2510bc - send new warrior N/E to watch for barbs until needed as MP in DF, worker to cow on grass. Curraghs and warrior scouting.

IT - nada

2. 2470bc - Worker begins roading cow.

IT - nada

3. 2430bc - more scouting

IT - nada

4. 2390bc - warrior spots dyes in eastern jungle.

IT - nada

5. 2350bc - worker goes to bring water to 2nd cow.

IT - PP warrior -> settler

6. 2310bc - worker irrigating, one warrior scouting and other for MP in DF. Pop-rush rax in DF.

IT - DF rax -> spearman as PREBUILD for archer when Warrior Code comes in.

7. 2270bc - Southern curragh sees landbridge to Celts south of mountains and goody hut, and there are more dyes just outside their border.

IT - nada

8. 2230bc - scouting warrior spots blue borders in jungle...must be Spain, but not showing on F4 yet. Northern curragh sees Spanish warrior. WC due in 1, lower research to 40%.

IT - WC comes in, set to HBR in 15 at 100% and -2gpt.

9. 2150bc - Isabella has exactly the same techs we have...not even Masonry. Northern curragh spots English borders and gems just outside. Worker continues irrigating toward cow on grass. Swap build at DF to archer.

IT - DF grows to pop 4 and raise lux to 10%. Izzie now has Masonry too, but no one is selling.

10. 2110bc - Warrior pops GH on landbridge to Celts and we get maps and a nice view of Celtic Alesia.

After notes: The settler build in PP could either be pop-rushed now or swapped to a worker in one. There sure is a lot of swamp and jungle.

I think I may have played 11 turns, because I don't see 2190bc and F6 shows turn 41. My apologies to the team.

Here's the save. Pics to follow.

Our homeland area
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/2110bc_home_area.jpg
The eastern lands
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/2110bc_eastern_lands.jpg

I think we need to concentrate on settlers and try and settle as much of that jungle north of Ireland as possible.

I still like that forest tile on the isthmus.

Personally, I am not a big fan of pop rushing. I have probably pop-rushed four times in all my time playing Civ. Every time was because I was in extremis, i.e. enemy at the gates.

:devil:

Keeping an eye on this crowd. And why not go for a diplomatic victory?

Nice work Gram H! That choke point is huge for us.
There looks like a decent site west of Douglas Fir between the incense, sugar and it would capture the whale on expansion. I presume I can bring water to it and pillage the irrigation on the way back.
Since we have limited capabilities production wise does it make sense to let the AI settle the marshes and jungles and capture them?
Another question is whether we can road to our enemy?
Last, can we discuss whether a archer rush is in order?

OK I got it and will play tomorrow.

And why not go for a diplomatic victory?Gee...I dunno... Chief Seattle didn't fare so well with treaties signed by the white chiefs, did he? ;)

@Whomp: We can road to connect to other cities, as part of our 'trade network'... so by all means, road to any cities that are on the list as part of any 'acquisition plan'. :devil:

As for letting the AI settle the marsh... we may need to look at resettling... sometimes the AI will plant settlers on food bonus tiles if they're the only ones 'available'.

About the marshes Wouldn't a tree hugger prefer to keep the natural environment a pristine a possible? So I would think that they would leave swamps and marshes the same.

:devil:

I don't know if the Iroquois harvested wild rice from the swamps but like any responsible post-industrial nation this bunch does have a "wetlands mitigation plan"......

I presume I can bring water to it and pillage the irrigation on the way back.

Doesn't irrigation need to be in an unbroken chain? I've never tried pillaging a tile to cut off a water supply, so I don't know for sure, but that was always my impression.

Jeez, when I think of all the epic, inefficient irrigation projects I undertook when I was playing at Regent level... :rolleyes: Doing it all with only one worker, if I remember correctly.

I still like that forest tile on the isthmus.


Me too. It will still block the southern route.

A dotmap! That's the ticket!. We need a dotmap! Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

Doesn't irrigation need to be in an unbroken chain? I've never tried pillaging a tile to cut off a water supply, so I don't know for sure, but that was always my impression.
I think you can break the chain without drying up the intended target, BUT my question would be this...when you pillage a tile, does it destroy the road or the irrigation first? If the roads go first, we'd have to rebuild them after pillaging the water. :hmm:

I was thinking the same thing Harriet. So what I was hoping to do is irrigate, move the worker, irrigate again and have a warrior follow the worker and pillage. Then either follow with a worker and road it or have the worker road his way back. Does this make sense? :crazyeye:

not at all. IIRC, in civ3, u don't need an unbroken chain to the water. once u irrigate, you can re-improve without messing up the irrigation

Does this make sense? :crazyeye:
I see what you're getting at. Seems like (per discussion on MSN a couple nights ago with you, Scout and me) Scout said we could choose not to pillage the extra irrigation, provided that we planted TWO other tiles with trees as mitigation. That sounded good in theory, but I'm wondering if we'll find enough tiles to do so until we've conquered half (or more) of the world, considering all the marsh and jungle visible. For the first time in any game I'm wishing we could find a huge block of barren desert or tundra. :crazyeye: I guess it's his call on how we handle this.

In strange silly way (i.e. my normal m.o.), I'm not too worried about this game except we have not researched writing as yet.

We can tie the AI in knots with trades and keep up in tech with trades.

my question is how do we track what we need to forest or re-forest?

where are the ponies btw?

:devil:

Once you water a tile it stays watered regardless of the condition of the tiles intervening between it and the water source, as long as the irrigation project starts before the intervening tiles dry up.

And, um, this is starting to get a little over focused on one aspect. I say water the flat ground, mine the hills, preserve the forests, then plant new forests when you can. ANd you'll still be at least as green as George Clooney (think of all the dinosaurs that died so he can make his living)

Here's a dot map. Might not be a very good one. Please tear it up.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6506/2110bchomeareadotmap8xe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

@Bugs: Thoughts on your dotmap:

Yellow dot: I like it better than where I would have put it. Putting it as far away as possible lets us build more roads. Same comment for "Pink Dot".

Green Dot: I like it. I think that's also the one gmaharriet suggested.

Black Dot: Moving it 1S would let us irrigate the sugar... if we wanted to.

White Dot: Moving it 1SW lets us get another sugar in the city's 21 tiles....

We need to bust a bit more fog before discussing Light Blue dot seriously...

We need some sort of kulcha in 'dark blue dot' (Ponderosa Pine). As you well know Bugs... I like looking at the 'starting nine' when dotmapping... but in this variant your 21 makes more sense.

Green Dot: I like it. I think that's also the one gmaharriet suggested.
As much as I WISH I could take credit for that one, it was actually Whomp's suggestion, and a very good idea. :D

No city improvements that enhance production and contribute to "global warming" are allowed.

Does that include hospitals?
I'm guessing that without being able to develop most tiles cities will stay smaller

I note that the currently Celtic city of Alesia also fits fairly well into this dot map. :devil:

@Andronicus -- I'd be pretty sure that hospitals aren't going to be allowed in this one either, at least not until a city gets a mass transit system.

Lurker question: What is the reason for OCP?

Lurker question: What is the reason for OCP

The variant Scout came up with requires we utilize every resource possible since we can't mine or irrigate anything that's not a food or resource bonus.

So, for instance, the green dot looks like it will become one of our most powerful cities :crazyeye: because we can irrigate the sugar, mine the incense, grab the whale on expansion and use a forest inside of its city center. I don't think there's another city on the dotmap with that potential.

In fact, team I plan to use that dot first if you don't mind. I will play tonight, promise. A bit of feast mode for little me.

Lurker Seems like an interesting idea. But I have one question, what happens when you take over another CIV's city and they have irrigated and mined their land? Do you go back and return in to natures beauty or keep it?

Lurker Seems like an interesting idea. But I have one question, what happens when you take over another CIV's city and they have irrigated and mined their land? Do you go back and return in to natures beauty or keep it?:hmm: Good question. I believe Chief Seattle (Scout) said for every one irrigated/mined tile we have within a city square must include two newly planted trees. Nature's beauty and all. :D

I note that the currently Celtic city of Alesia also fits fairly well into this dot map. :devil:Yeah, how soon are you planning to "naturalize" it? :crazyeye:

Pre-turn: Still not 100% on the rules since there's a irrigated plain in the capital but I think it's allowed under the rules.

IT Hey who's that.
1. 2070 It's Izzie. "E-sah-belll-luh, que' unda maestra?

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7810/izzie18cr.jpg

She won't trade masonry. Dang. We are down masonry on everyone. Take a peak at Alesia. One regular warrior with dyes, fresh water and sugar. Yummy. Chief Seattle will dig this. :evil:
Move Ponderosa Pine next to the coast for an extra coin since it will grow.

IT Douglas Fir Archer to archer. We're gonna rush Alesia.
2. 2030 Move around and move the citizen in Ponderosa Pine to a grass.

3. 19902 barbs at Alesia.

IT get the boot order from Izzie and Brennus.
4. 1950 My, my Brennus has lots of little bonuses. Wheat, horses (not settled), fish, forests, gold hills, 3 sugars a 4 on expansion. Mighty fine piece of land you got there, Brennie. :evil:

IT
5. 1910 Douglas Fir grows to 5. Lux to 20%.

IT
6.1870 Spy a 4 warrior barb camp. Ikes.

71830 Douglas Fir archer to settler. Wait for Alesia to grow.

8. 1790 Wait and move.

9. 1750 Running out of cash with 8g and -4gpt. Our other archer and 2nd warrior support are nearing Alesia. :evil: We should be able to rush Alesia any time.

Alesia
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8003/alesia4df.jpg
Possible sea route?
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1082/searoutes9wq.jpg

i have it. play tonight

The map was given. The prophecy foretold a short war with pointy sticks to properly lay claim to the cure of male pattern baldness in Alesia.

IT: Ponderosa Settler -> curragh. Our treasury is running dangerously low.

1725: start a curragh suicide run on the east coast

IT: Barbs must be attacking Alesia. Watch 2 warriors run out and attack. Spear now showing.

1700: lower science.

IT: curragh sinks

1675: declare on brennus.

IT:

1650: archer kills spear at alesia. archer kills warrior at Alesia, capturing 2 slaves.

IT: Doug Fir finishes settler, starts archer.

1600: build Silver Maple.

IT: warrior defeats celt warrior attacking from hill. another curragh sinks in treacherous waters.

1575:

IT: Douglas Fir archer ->archer. Ponderosa curragh ->worker

1525: warrior kills barb. I make a deal. http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7712/peace0ym.jpg science back to 80%

1500: I see this
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6915/barbs9eh.jpg
and decide to go one turn long. I buy Myst from England for 7gpt. This is idiotic, but I buy math from Brennus for 4g, 5gpt and Myst. I really wanted cats.

1475: found sumac city and in the process kill a barb camp.

We're even in techs. Need more boats. Cats are up. Horses need to be connected. Get Lizzie to declare.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Igor_of_the_Iroquois,_1475_BC.SAV

:bump: scout is up. :devil: here's where my acorns get roasted :crazyeye:

here's where my acorns get roasted :crazyeye:
Sounds to me like you're doing fine, AK, with 3 more towns (including Alesia), tech parity and destroying a barb camp. :goodjob:

You might be in tech parity, but Brennus is left crippled.:) Nice job Admiral!:goodjob:

I haven't looked at the save, but that looks like a game-changing set you played there AK! :thumbsup:

I've got a bit of a 'feast'... so I might wait until tomorrow night to play this.

ware the barbs in the SW

we're on the edge with regard to research. need to watch it. if you can get liz to declare, we're good.

I didn't do well with getting the ponies connnected.

Excellent progress.

oh, yeah, I forgot to mention something

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2017/ifuseek2aw.jpg

there's iron in them thar hills

Looks like we could promote some archers with a lot of targets.

SHWH

Start the set at 51g, +1gpt, writing in 44. MM Douglas Fir for an extra gold. Swap Ponderosa Pine to an archer and whip it. Takes the citizen off the BG somebody mined... and I'll need to re-check the variant discussion to see if we agreed to soften the variant.

IBT - Barbs start crawling all over the place. Ponderosa Pine Archer>Archer

Turn 1/1450BC Dispatch the archer towards Douglas Fir, Warrior whacks a barb camp outside the celtic Capitol.

IBT - Brennus gives us the boot.

Turn 2/1425 - put the archer on the mountain to guard the worker that's threatened by barbs. MM the cities... writing in 21 at -2gpt. Do a little fog busting and find a Celtic Settler pair about to claim another dyes. Do a little fog busting... starting to bring the warriors home for MP duty.

IBT - Barbs promote the warrior at , our Curraugh gets promoted fighting an Illinois Galley... (somebody's got maps) Douglas Fir trains an archer, starts a settler.

Turn 3/1400 Celts have founded Lugdunum. Move some stuff around... start on a road towards Silver Maple. Whack a barb with an archer... now 1/3.

Turn 4/1375 As much as it pains me to do this, these barbs simply must be dealt with. I whip an archer at Douglas Fir.

IBT - a Barb Horseman shows up at Ponderosa Pine.

Turn 5/1350 ...whack a barb at our capitol. Whack the barb Horseman at Ponderosa Pine. Lose a scouting warrior attacking. Up the lux tax.

Turn 6/1325 Swap Ponderosa Pine to Settler. move some units.

IBT - a Barb attacks one of our Archers. Celts advanced on our borders, ostensibly to play whack-a-barb.

Turn 7/1300 - Lux back down. Move some troops.

Turn 8/1275 - Risk our Curraugh to try to see what's on a sea tile.

Turn 9/1250 - Whack a barb horseman at Ponderosa Pine.

IBT - Ponderosa Pine equips a settler, starts a worker.

Turn 10/1200 - whack some barbs. I do have us a few elite archers now. and a settler on the way to the southern peninsula.

IBT - a Barb Warrior attacks an archer. WHOOPS... I wasn't supposed to advance that turn.

This is a beginning-of-turn >>> Save <<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/shwh01_scout_1175bc.SAV).

We've got 2 settlers on the ground, one in the capitol. I recommend we take that one in the capitol and try to claim the rockpile that was Alesia - there are dyes there. The southern settler is travelling with an archer... with a 4/5 Archer walking point that should be able to disperse that southern Barb camp that was spawning those Horses that gave me such fits at Ponderosa Pine.

I'd be careful about popping that goody hut without troops in the area. It's likely to spawn barbs.

Peace with Brennus is up during this turnset. I recommend we build some more archers (and maybe one Spear) and go after the Celts again. Brennus is what stands between us and eastward expansion.

Oh yeah - I'd try not to whip anything this turn... or we'll have some happiness problems. I whipped a couple of archers this set.

Feel free to make wholesale changes to the build orders.

I mined the BG. Thought we we allowed to improved bonus squares :confused:

what's the ruling?

I don't mind softening the variant a little... but I think it'd be cool to get our shields from planted trees rather than mines. I'll leave it open for discussion... and see what we come up with to capture the 'spirit' of the variant.

My impression was that we're only mining resource tiles: iron, aluminum, uranium, gems, maybe a gold hill or mountain. As scout says, it's kinda cool that our high production tiles for the most part will be trees. And only irrigating food bonus tiles: wheat or sugar or cows, etc.

Also, are we pillaging AI improvements that don't fit our gentle, eco-friendly ways? After we move into their recently vacated lands, that is. I thought that we were.

@scout -- is that dinky boat still out at sea, or did you just do the peek-a-boo to see of you could spot a coast?

I concur with Monkey's assessment. Only irrigation to bring water to the resources we want to water.

@scout -- is that dinky boat still out at sea, or did you just do the peek-a-boo to see of you could spot a coast?I went... further than I should have with a curraugh... you'll see where I explored. Whomp said he saw a sea passage over by England. See if you can work the curraugh over that way.

I guess I was under the same impression as AK. Seems like the original statement (paraphrased) was that we could improve bonuses and I thought a bonus grass was a bonus. I'll support whatever is the final decision on that. :)

I have a general question on game theory. What is the advantage (if any) of playing with barbs raging, rather than just roaming? Is it more opportunities for promotions? more camps with gold for research? just more fun whacking? Until fairly recently I always set barbs to sedentary, so I still have much to learn about them.

Whoops, I was just casually wondering what the next guy was going to do with scout's set-up when I realized that I'm the next guy! :blush: I shall look at the save and play either tonight or tomorrow.

Won't pillage any of our own tiles until I get a final ruling on imrovements. Promise not to do anything rep-trashing either. :lol:

Can we work this so that gma gets the change of age barb uprisings? Should be pretty amusing at the raging level. :mischief:

Won't pillage any of our own tiles until I get a final ruling on imrovements. Let's not pillage anything... I'm also considering softening the variant to allow us to road tiles that we plan to plant trees on. I really am open to discussion on this... it's intended to be fun, and I don't want us to lose sight of that. Can we work this so that gma gets the change of age barb uprisings? Should be pretty amusing at the raging level. :mischief:Now you're starting to sound like TGOM or SHWH. :p

:devil:



I have a general question on game theory. What is the advantage (if any) of playing with barbs raging, rather than just roaming? Is it more opportunities for promotions? Yesmore camps with gold for research?Yes just more fun whacking?Yes Until fairly recently I always set barbs to sedentary, so I still have much to learn about them.

It also takes the "settler factory" out of play, a not so bad thing IMNSHO. Settler factories are fun to set up, once, but are almost game breaking.

Let's fix it so the monkey get's the barbs :devil:

Can we work this so that gma gets the change of age barb uprisings? Should be pretty amusing at the raging level.

The lady has already lived through two of those (one at Emperor and again at Demi-god) so I concur with the AdmK ;)

I say we let the primate pick us another fight with Brennus. :devil:

even better

Monkey man is up.
I'm on deck.

I vote against softening the variant. Let's pillage those mines. I don't count a bonus grass as a bonus tile.

Okay... so we pillage the mined BG.

@Bugs: What do you think about roaded forest tiles? Is that too 'soft'?

works for me, i'll read more better next time

I most richly deserved that one. Actually, I find barbs so annoying that I turn them off on all my solo games. I am about to learn my lesson, I believe. It's good to be humbled.

Actually, by my guess, either the Admiral or Whomp will get the barb riots.

I'm viewing the save now. Our workers are busy roading mountians and swamps. We have iron and horses both within our borders with neither one connected. Thanks, scout! :goodjob: Actually this isn't as funny as it seems. It appears that we'll have to road some mountains and swamps to be able to connect the horses and link our cities. Our dinky boat is out on a sea tile, waiting to see what will happen on the interturn. We're deficit researching Writing, due in 19 turns.

In my estimation, we can whup Brennus and open up some fine eastward expansion. He has only one city left other than his capital, and currently no access to iron or horses. If we take out Lugundum we get access to dyes and take away his only chance to get some iron. Well, if we also keep him from resettling the Alesia rockpile first. Entremont just went down to pop one, so he's gonna want to send a settler somewhere. Agree that Alesia is where our current settler in Douglas Fir should go next. Once our peace treaty is up, the ape army will descend from the trees, and I'll see if I can make Brennus cry like a girl.

Don't think I'll touch this one tonight, but we just may be seeing some insomnimanic theater in the early hours. Apparently when I have the most fun playing.

Further comments?

Don't worry about the dinky boat. I accidentally advanced the turn. You've got a beginning-of-turn save. :blush:

If we need to road a forest or swamp to connect cities or a resource, then it is OK since it is with in the variant. Let's play by Chief Seattle's rules.

If we need to road a forest or swamp to connect cities or a resource, then it is OK since it is with in the variant. Let's play by Chief Seattle's rules.But can we make a path in the woods that we plant? What do you think about
Planting forests on roads we made to connect our cities? ...and...
Roading a tile and plating forests on it?

Both of those sound like they are within the bounds set by Chief Seattle.

Yes, the Indians had paths through their forests for hunting and travel.

Yes, the Indians had paths through their forests for hunting and travel.

:devil:

Made by bison and if you want to see what happens when a L'Enfant spoke and wheel is overlaid on bison trails try to navigate St Paul some time

All right then, my initial assessment is above. The only issue I didn't raise is where we're going to go tech-wise after we get Writing. I'm assuming that if we hit Writing first we have a good chance at this level to make the Philosophy sling work, so I'll suggest CoL after this, then Philo to pick up Republic. Unimaginative, but effective.

Preflight (1175BC) Again, see above. I move our newest settler out of Douglas Fir and, with an archer to keep him company, send him on the road to build a new and noble city on the ruins of Alesia. The other loose archer in Silver Maple starts on a long treck to Entremont. Just to see how the Celts are getting along. Ahem. Dinky boat is still alive, so I send him north again to safe coastal waters. Looks like the most likely spot to find another land mass is going to be north. Elite archers disperses the barb camp in the south and east, refilling our treasury. Move the regular warrior on Alesia ruins towards a hilltop to spy a little. He'll be the MP for the new city that builds there, but in the meantime, he can scout a little.

IBT :sleep:

Turn 1 (1150BC) Move stuff. As expected, the goodie hut has no goodies, just angry natives. Actually, just one angry guy. Good thing our settler has cover.

IBT Our scouting warrior sees the expected settler pair heading right towards Alesia ruins. Well, that'll be first on the list to go. P Pine coughs up a worker right at growth and starts building an archer. S Maple gives an archer and starts on another. Pretty much we're building archers here.

Turn 2 (1125BC) Start to consolidate forces towards Entremont. If Brennus is building nothing but spears and settlers, it's not going to be a very well defended city, I think.

IBT Our dinkyboat sinks, and Sumac City starts on another one.

Turn 3 (1100BC) Build Aspen here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Aspen.jpg

We'll leave that archer in the neighborhood in case that barb galley would like to drop off any visitors. Every other Iroquois fighter is heading east. Aspen's first build is a worker.

IBT As expected, Brennus builds a replacement for Alesia on the former spot. Expect a second rockpile there in three turns.

Turn 4 (1075BC) Shift troops out of Canulodunums culture borders. I'm still considering making our first strike on Entremont. Oh, and I finally remember to go pillage the mine outside P Pine.

IBT Brennus complains. We listen. Douglas Fir builds a spear and starts on another settler. It's excess citizen is now a scientist, bringing Writing down to 9 turns.

Turn 5 (1025BC) Move troops into place, mostly. There are some loose barbs around where our elite archer outside of Lugundum is posted (he's on the iron mountain). We'll let Brennus dispose of them, I think.

IBT Izzy starts to work on the Oracle. And it looks like Brennus has beaten us to Writing. :(

Turn 6 (1000BC) :sleep:

IBT Now Izzy wants the Colossus as well. She must be at war with Liz, 'cuz Liz is down to two cities and I can see some ruins in her territory. Izzy is going to give us some grief in the future, I think.

Turn 7 (975BC) Our deals with Brennus are all done. The first thing this means is that we can crank up research to get Writing in 2 turns. Here's what this also means.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/war.jpg

The monkey decides to roll the dice and go for the big prize -- Entremont. Four archers and a spear move in to try their luck.

IBT Brennus's response is -- nothing. Not yet.

Turn 8 (950BC) Move back-up troops towards Camulodunum and the main strike force against Entremont.

IBT Barbs kill a stray Celt archer up by Lugundum, saving me the trouble. We get Writing, set to CoL. Build an embassy with Izzy, and here's what she's up to.

EDIT: Whoops, thought I had a screenshot of Madrid here. Well, here's the basics. Isabella has horses but no iron, and right now she'd building the Colossus with 44 turns left to go.

Turn 9 (925BC) Our troops close in on Entremont. Build another archer. Move elite archer from iron mountain outside of Lugdunum to a hilltop just outside the city. Not that I would dream of sending a single archer against a fortified spearman. Of course not.

IBT Zip. Nuthin. Brennus must not have anything to throw at us. Let's see if he can win playing defense.

Turn 10 (900BC) The battle of Entremont. All four archers throw themselves against Brennus's spears, and all four fall without making a dent.

Well then.

Spearman withdraws.

Move reserve archers towards Camulodunum. See if we can do better there. Move elite archer away from Lug down south where he might be able to do some good.

Dinkyboat heads out into the western waters.

And that's it.

Postgame Looks like I screwed the pooch on this one, so to speak. I should have taken Cam first, then sent a bigger force against Entremont. Brennus has at least three spears in there, as far as I can tell. As it is, I just wiped out our main force and gotten nothing out of it. :cry: I'm hoping that the next better player can get something out of this wreckage. Don't know what else to say at this point. Let the floggings begin.

Here's the >>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/shwh01_monkey_900bc.SAV)

Ouch... that hurt. 'salright. We'll bounce back.

Just out of curiosity, I replayed the turns starting from declaring war. This time I went for Cam first and then Entremont. RNG went much more my way, and doing it that order resulted in the complete destruction of the Celts in 650BC. *sigh*

Monkey Man - As a guide for your mental health - don't replay turns. You'll just be kicking yourself.

I have it. I'll be playing this afternoon.

@SimpleMonkey: Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. Just your turn to be the bug, I guess. ;)

Pre-flight – fire the scientist in our capitol so that it will grow with expansion. Usually the capitol is that last place you want to hire a specialist since it doesn’t have any corruption. Move the elite archer out of Aspen, he’s needed at the front. Barb galleys rarely ever drop off units. Change Sumac to a worker. We have really split our forces up. Militarily, it is usually a good idea to keep most of your troops together. Looks like we had at least three different task forces.

IBT – Our archer outside Lugdunum defeats an archer.

875 – At Camulodunum – Our first archer defeats a spear. Our second loses. I pull the warrior off the mountain and…
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7541/camulodunum7df.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
With only one citizen, I keep it. It does need to have a proper name though. It is renamed to Red Oak.

IBT – Doug Fir: settler=>mountie
Aspen: worker=>barracks

850 – Nada

IBT – English complete the colossus.

825 – nada

IBT – A celt spear attacks a archer and kills it.
Silver Maple: archer=>barracks

800 – Found Tamarac on the hill south of black dot.

IBT – Sumac: worker=>catapult

775 – Found Sequoia on pink dot.

IBT – Ponderosa: archer=>barracks

750 – Attack a spear with a regular archer and lose. That’s why I’m building barracks.

After Action – The Celts are hurting. They don’t have any techs to give, only cash. Let’s gather up some forces and in about five turns or so we should be ready for some more city attacking. Our first mountie is due in two turns.

Situation:
http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/7685/750bc9ga.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01,_750_BC.SAV

Thanks for saving this one, Sir Bugs. Sorry about leaving Douglas Fir with a scientist -- he was originally there when DF was getting too big to be happy.

Kind of curious why Cam didn't autoraze, since it was at 1 pop and hadn't had a culture expansion.

If Lugdunum is now pop 1, then Brennus has either pop-rushed two archers, or he's got another settler somewhere.

I assume that mounties aren't going to go into action until we're out of Despotism.

I also assume that libraries are the only acceptable form of culture expansion.

I'd build another dinkyboat soon. That's an awfully big patch of black in the middle of the map there.

Are we trying for a Philosophy slingshot?

Well done, Commander Bugs! :salute:

Kind of curious why Cam didn't autoraze, since it was at 1 pop and hadn't had a culture expansion.It had just grown to pop 2, which was a nice treat.

If Lugdunum is now pop 1, then Brennus has either pop-rushed two archers, or he's got another settler somewhere. No settler, he's whipping like mad.

I assume that mounties aren't going to go into action until we're out of Despotism.I don't think we're going to let a little thing like a despotic GA stop us. The thing with having an Ancient Age UU is that you have got to use it while it is a viable unit. It will take us another 50 -70 turns to get a government. By then the mountie will be useless. Strike while our arrows are hot and damn the despotic GA.

I also assume that libraries are the only acceptable form of culture expansion. Oh, Brother Bede! :wavey: Our friend Bede has some thoughts that many of us have adapted. We agree with that assessment.

I'd build another dinkyboat soon. That's an awfully big patch of black in the middle of the map there.I wouldn't build too many. There are a lot of barb galleys plying our waters and we really don't need to throw 15 shields into Davy Jones' locker.

Are we trying for a Philosophy slingshot?Don't know. Are we?

:devil:



Quoth the monkey:
I assume that mounties aren't going to go into action until we're out of Despotism.
Respondent Bugsy
I don't think we're going to let a little thing like a despotic GA stop us. The thing with having an Ancient Age UU is that you have got to use it while it is a viable unit. It will take us another 50 -70 turns to get a government. By then the mountie will be useless. Strike while our arrows are hot and damn the despotic GA.

The Golden Age only affects fields which are improved with roads and mines and such and with the minimal improvements you are installing the effects will also be minimal, so gallop those ponies into battle!!

And does anybody know why the Nez Perce rode Appaloosas (those spotted ponies) to the battlefield?

II don't think we're going to let a little thing like a despotic GA stop us. The thing with having an Ancient Age UU is that you have got to use it while it is a viable unit. It will take us another 50 -70 turns to get a government. By then the mountie will be useless. Strike while our arrows are hot and damn the despotic GA.Nicely put. Too many fear the Despotic Golden Age. Let's get the early edge, and not let them get back up. Oh, Brother Bede! :wavey: Our friend Bede has some thoughts that many of us have adapted. We agree with that assessment.@Bugs: Many of this team are Bede proteges. Complete with their own Temple Rant (TM by Bede).

As for the Republic Slingshot... we should try to hold tribal coucils. :D

Cross-posting with that Grumpy ol', crazy ol' Monk. As for the Apaloosas... they're strong, hearty horses... well suited for the rugged terrain that the Nez Perce roamed. But I can think of no reason the Nez Perce would have favored the Apaloosa beyond that... unless... that was the type of horse available to 'em.

@Team: Take the mounted warriors available, and go whack somebody!!!

:devil:



Cross-posting with that Grumpy ol', crazy ol' Monk. As for the Apaloosas... they're strong, hearty horses... well suited for the rugged terrain that the Nez Perce roamed. But I can think of no reason the Nez Perce would have favored the Apaloosa beyond that... unless... that was the type of horse available to 'em.


Only those of us who have had the dubious privilege of owning, training and riding the Appaloosa can truly appreciate the answer to this one:

"So they would be good and mad when they got there"

Appies are indeed strong, hearty horses with sweet dispositions, but they are mule stubborn and can be dumb as a box of rocks.

Got it.

I took a quick look at the save, and I'm still perplexed about what we can do with our workers. There are 2 about to finish roading our S/W town (can't recall the name) and then it will take 3 or 4 worker turns to get them working anywhere that's within the rules as I understand them...just seems rather wasteful. Can we road forests that are already there? Do we want to mine the gold mountain this early?

Not sure what our military is doing right now if we're waiting for more M/W's to attack. Are we just defending our S/E area while waiting for reinforcements? I'm not comfortable with early warfare, so any tips would be helpful.

I'll play this tomorrow (Monday) night. My newer computer is finally repaired and I'll have it back Monday evening, so I'm hoping I can get it hooked up with no problems.

I cast my vote for a Philo slingshot: CoL (underway now) -> Philo -> Republic -> Literature. With this variant, we need the culture expansion at some point. Any reason not to whip some libraries?

Had I thought deeper about the minimal improvements in this game, I would have realized the non-issue of a despotic GA. Brennus can be finished off (almost certainly in the next turnset) with archers. (Come on -- two pop 1 cities? Even I could take that out. :rolleyes: ) Beyond that, shrieking warriors on Appoloosas may be just the thing for Isabella. If she's been concentrating on sacking English towns, she may have spent a lot of military. Another scan of the map could let us know if she even has iron to connect in her territory.

An all-Iroquois continient would be a nice start. For proper environmental management, of course. :devil:

Brennus can be finished off (almost certainly in the next turnset) with archers. (Come on -- two pop 1 cities? Even I could take that out. :rolleyes: )
Sorry, but I've never done an archer rush, and Bugs said "gather our forces", so I figured that meant M/W's. I'm still a Chieftain level player when it comes to early fighting...usually would use several M/W's or archers with cats, and I rarely fight before changing governments. I'm a builder with little building to do here. :blush:

Sorry, gma, that was by no means directed at you. I'm still slightly despondent over my vain assault on Entremont in my turnset. A force of 4-6 archers should be enough to finish Brennus off, especially if he's rushing archers and not spears. Let him fling his archers at one of our outlying cities, or skirmish them from safety. In the meantime a convergence on Entremont, followed by a final push on Lug in the north, backed up by fresh replacemnts, should do the trick. Waiting for a stack of 10 mounties at this point would just let Brennus rebuild.

If Lug goes back up in pop it looks like it would fit in well with our build plans.

Good luck!

Sorry, gma, that was by no means directed at you. I'm still slightly despondent over my vain assault on Entremont in my turnset.
I didn't take it personally, SM. I probably play too cautiously and I'm trying to learn to be more aggressive...just don't know how to start. You probably learn more from vain assaults than I do from NEVER trying them. :p

I don't think we have enough archers yet, and all the builds are rax and cats, with the exception of one M/W, and I know there's nasty barbs out there as well. When I'm not confident about what to do, I just stare at the screen and do nothing. :(

:devil:

@Bugs: Many of this team are Bede proteges. Complete with their own Temple Rant (TM by Bede).


And can anyone guess Bede's mentor?

:devil:



And can anyone guess Bede's mentor?


So what you're saying is it's all Bugs' fault? :confused: :p

GramH...I don't think there's a wrong build as long as it's MW's, archers, settlers or less important workers. This will be a slow grinding destruction of the Celts but what we don't want is letting them hook up iron or horses. If we can keep them to archers and spears they're done.

Iro Treehuggers 750bc

Pre-turn: P Pine is unhappy, so hire a scientist to shave 1 turn off COL.

IT - 2 barb warriors show up just S/E of Red Oak, a Celt archer comes from Lugdunum and the Celt spear moves toward our archer and spear on hill.

1. 730bc - Move our archer and spear on the hill toward Red Oak. One of the other 2 archers is wounded so fortify him. Attack Celt archer with our healthy archer...we win, but he's RL'd and another Celt archer is just behind him.

Dingy heads N out of Sumac.

IT - DF MW -> MW. Celt archer kills our RL'd archer. Barbs move right outside Red Oak.

2. 710bc - Archer/spear move into Red Oak. Slaves finish mining iron mountain, but are held up pending outcome of coming barb battle. Move another archer and the MW toward Celt archer.

IT - Barb galley attacks and is sunk by our dingy. Another Celt archer shows up from Entremont.

3. 690bc - Kill both barb warriors and our vet archer promotes. Kill Celt archer with our reg archer and he promotes. Move our elite archer and MW back toward Red Oak to try and get them all into a group.

Everyone has Construction now, but no trades available.

IT - nada

4. 670bc - Kill reg Celt archer flawlessly with our elite archer and cover him with our MW.

IT - Another archer comes out of Entremont (still size 1) and Celt spear heads toward Red Oak.

5. 650bc - Kill reg Celt archer with our elite archer who is wounded. Cover with MW and then, being just outside Entremont, attack with our MW, and we enter our Golden Age. Kill spear near Red Oak with our vet archer, but no promo.

Code of laws due in 2 and I'm able to lower research to 70% and 0% lux with +11g.

IT - nada

6. 630bc - fortify wounded and trying to move units together.

IT - Code of Laws comes in -> Philo in 5 at 100%. Trade COL to England for Construction +62g, then to Spain for 94g (all). Forgot to get pics. DF MW -> MW.

7. 610bc - moving units and workers

IT - Brennus wants peace...no. Sumac City cat -> cat

8. 590bc - attack Entremont with elite archer and it is ours with 1 resister (and nobody working). Start temple. Move units in...archers need healing.

IT - Resistance ends in Entremont. Lizzy creates an embassy in Douglas fir.

9. 570bc - fortify archers in Entremont and move other units toward Lugdunum.

IT - P Pine completes rax -> start settler in 5, as it's at 6 pop, but next player can change to MW in 5 or something else if preferred. Sequoia cat -> cat.

10. 550bc - DF and PP both unhappy, so raise lux to 10%, Philo still due in 2 at 50% and +14. Unit and worker moves.

Afternotes:
Our military (2 MW's,1 archer, 1 spear) are positioned right next to where another MW can join them after being produced in DF next turn. Of our archers still in Entremont, one is still 4/5 and the other fully healed. There is a barb galley right next to our curragh in the north.

Workers are being sent S/E to start roading to our newest acquisition. There's only 1 tile left being roaded in our core, and then there will be little left to do there, but plenty of work around Entremont.

There's iron just outside of Lugdunum, but not available until expansion and not currently hooked up. The only other source of horses seems to be sorta south of Entremont. No other civs appear to have either, unless it's underneath one of their towns.

Here's the save. Pics to follow.

590 bc - Entremont is captured
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/590bc_Capture_Entremont.jpg
550 bc - Our SOD. Um, I'm just sure I took this pic with the unit names showing, but they've disappeared. :( The SOD is south of Lugdunum and between Red Oak and Silver Maple...2 MW's, 1 archer, 1 spear.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/550bc_Iro_Military.jpg
550 bc - Our core
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/550bc_Western_Core.jpg
Our Empire-to-Be in the East
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/550bc_Eastern_Area.jpg

So what you're saying is it's all Bugs' fault? :confused: :p Let's just say that the student has far outpassed the teacher.

BTW - Well done Harriet. Nice tactics and use of terrain.

:devil:

@Bugs: Many of this team are Bede proteges. Complete with their own Temple Rant (TM by Bede).


And can anyone guess Bede's mentor?

That is a tough one; you played SG's even before I did.

Awesome job, GranH! :rockon: I probably would have sacked Entremont, but it's nice to add AI capitals to our empire. (Should we keep the name to commemorate Brennus's contribution to our expansion?) I'm also still interested in building one more dinkyboat, as ours might have an unfortunate encounter with that barb galley soon.

Can't wait to see if the Philo gambit paid off and we land Repub for free.

Are the Red Oak slaves almost ready to hook up dyes?

Also, I assume that we'll have to pillage all the mines around Entremont. Someday we'll irrigate those wheats.

(Should we keep the name to commemorate Brennus's contribution to our expansion?)
I didn't think about the renaming until I'd posted the save. Maybe "Weeping Willow" would be appropriate, huh? ;)

Nice set Gram H. Looks like you did all the hard work for me. I wonder if we should pop rush a temple in Red Oak and abandon it after expansion. It would give the city 3 resources to work with 2 sugars and a gold hill. Weeping Willow ( ;) ) looks like it can keep two mines since they are sugars. Right?

How about a roster update....
Sir Bugsy --all his fault
gmaharriet-- gave the Celts a beat down
Whomp UP and got it
Admiral Kutzov-- on deck
scoutsout-- has an idea....
SimpleMonkey-- Founded a Pink dot (tm). :eek:

Why abandon Red Oak? It appears to fit in well with our original dotmap? Or do you mean somebody else, Whomp?

Don't think we can mine bonus food, only irrigate them. And it's going to be a while before water reaches Weeping Willow, looks like.

Why abandon Red Oak? It appears to fit in well with our original dotmap? Or do you mean somebody else, Whomp?Precisely my initial reaction, SM, but after reading that several times, I decided he meant to abandon (sell) the temple, not Red Oak itself, just to expand the borders without paying mainentance for the entire game...something I never think to do.

Don't think we can mine bonus food, only irrigate them. And it's going to be a while before water reaches Weeping Willow, looks like.
Not sure we have a final answer on what we can mine. I roaded a sugar next to Tamarac, but didn't mine it and had no water for irrigation. If we can mine, then that tile still needs attention.

Precisely my initial reaction, SM, but after reading that several times, I decided he meant to abandon (sell) the temple, not Red Oak itself, just to expand the borders without paying mainentance for the entire game...something I never think to do.

Ah, now that would make sense.

I'm sorry for my lack of clarity. My brain works two steps ahead of what I say sometimes. Issues....

What I meant to say was build a temple and abandon the temple after the borders expand. We need to watch our nickels but also need workable tiles and it would save us some cabbage by abandoning the temple.

We need to watch our nickels but also need workable tiles and it would save us some cabbage by abandoning the temple.


now you're sounding like bede

:devil:



Let's just say that the student has far outpassed the teacher.

Don't be so modest, Bugs. You and Sirian were the military monsters of the Magnificent 7. And you clearly led the pack in Handy's series of Deity games.

BTW - Well done Harriet. Nice tactics and use of terrain.



And the Monk concurs. You are getting the hang of this battle stuff.

Thank you my brother for that gracious compliment. I don't think I deserve it.

- I like the Weeping Willow name change idea.

Not sure I like the build a temple idea. We could probably use the shields on something better. Like a barracks :devil:

Concur with Bugs on the Temple. Though it's a neat idea in theory... it's not really all that practical since the the thing will cost the full 60 shields...and we really can't afford to waste too many of those.

@Harriet: That was a very nicely played turnset. :thumbsup:

I need to go check the order-of-go... but I think Whomp's up next...

If iron were in short supply, it might still be worth it, but we don't. I suppose we could always colonize the iron outside of Red Oak if our supply runs out, likewise with the soon to be ours Lug.

OK playing now...sorry for the delay. Full on feast. :D

Pre-turn: Nada mucho

IT Yay! Our little dinghie survives a barb attack. Douglas Fir MW--> MW, Silver Maple rax --> MW Tamarac rax --> MW Sumac City worker -->temple as a pre-build for a lib I hope. Barb horse appears.
1. 530 Move some units around and head for Lugdunum
IT Here we go...philo learned and...

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3769/republic9at.jpg

Start research on Lit at 90% and no loss.
2.510 . Move the cat to the gates. Upgrade a warrior to sword.
IT A barb horse and celt archer approach. Red Oak rax --> archer till we get hooked up.
3. 490 Attack with our archer and we lose. Send 1st MW into Lugdunum and win flawlessly and the 2nd takes the city.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6884/celtsdemise0mv.jpg

and Lug is renamed Blue Palo Verde. Upgrade another warrior to sword.

IT
4. 470 Find a couple of barb camps. Liz and Iz each have map making and poly. Let's see what we can do.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9344/liztrade2mu.jpg
then...
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1087/izzietrade5pp.jpg

IT Archer takes a barb horse after it gets an arrow. Realize I forgot to mention a couple builds but Ponderosa has a settler trained and starts a MW
5. 450 Take two camps but no promos. Move stuff.
IT la de da...
6. 430 Move toward Spain. :mischief:

IT Yah! Sink a barb galley with our dinghie. Douglas Fir MW--> MW Silver Maple MW --> MW Tamarac MW --> Galley
7410 Taking a stroll through the marshes. :mischief:
IT Spain starts ToA. :D
8. 390 .
IT It takes two barb galleys but they sink our dinghie. :( They own the seas.
9. 370 Staghorn Sumac established.
IT Lit comes in and set to currency. Douglas Fir MW--> Lib (if you want) Ponderosa Pine MW--> duct (if you want) Blue Palo Verde worker --> cat Sequoia Galley -> galley
10. 350 Keep moving NW.

Summary
Units are moving towards Spain. Logisitcs will be tough because of all the marsh and jungle so we should probably stack the units. Liz and Iz will trade poly and their bank for Lit but I'll leave the for the next better player

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/434/spain8np.jpg

Well done, Whomp! :goodjob:

Wow! Will ya just look at that string of MW's...almost like they're having a victory parade. :D

I am assuming that the Celts are now an historic relic since that archer disappeared.

Gather your forces before you strike. We don't want to be strung out across the continent. Roads in that direction would be a good idea for the long term.

I thought we could use a roster update.

Roster:
Sir Bugsy
gmaharriet
Whomp - just played
Admiral Kutzov - up
scoutsout - on deck
SimpleMonkey

Lots of swamp-draining and marsh-clearing to be done in the east it looks like. Again, we probably got the best part of this continent. I'm sure that's been a big factor in keeping Isabella in check. Is anyone keeping track of how many forests we're going to have to plant? Or are we pretty much counting on foresting just about everything?

And can we save the ToA city till last? That would be a nice assist for us. And the AI isn't likely to abandon a wonder just to make something so mundane as an archer or horse. Even if it would be really, really useful. :mischief:

@Whomp: Nicely done!

@AK: Don't be afraid to take an extra turn to 'rally the troops'.

@Team: With AK up, and me on deck...would anyone care to speculate where this thing might be headed? :mischief:

Mayhem, chaos, slaughter? (I.e. will there be any Spain left for the rest of us?)

@Team: With AK up, and me on deck...would anyone care to speculate where this thing might be headed? :mischief:
Chaos, mischief, slaughter and mayhem? :hammer2:

I'm with Monkey if we could let the Spaniards build ToA it would be huge!
The units need to be rallied and I was thinking the furs city could be a nice defensible spot to start. There are two roaming Spaniards with the archer and horse in the jungles which should be easily dispatched.

The barbs are our biggest threat right now. There's a camp where I sent the sword and fortified the warrior. I was planning to leave the warrior where the camp is if he doesn't promote for the eventual uprising. There's also a lot of barb galley activity west of Blue Palo Verde so I would rally both galleys before sending them to the sea lane by England. Don't forget there's a sea lane there. :D

We could use more workers and settlers but I wanted to get max benefit out of our GA. I'm not sure how many turns are left but I'd think we should revolt after that. We should have Spain and England spend time researching republic instead of trading it if we can but poly is for sale if we want to give lit.

I have it. tomorrow I will set up the invasion.

We could use more workers and settlers but I wanted to get max benefit out of our GA. I'm not sure how many turns are left but I'd think we should revolt after that. We should have Spain and England spend time researching republic instead of trading it if we can but poly is for sale if we want to give lit.
Our GA began during my turn 5 at 650bc, so AK should have 5 (or would it be 6?) more GA turns.

Wouldn't buying Poly put us into the MA? Preparing for the change of age and barb uprising, would it make more sense to build some archers (cheaper) or swords if iron is hooked up yet? Horses will be limited in movement anyway through all those swamps, so archers and/or swords could fight the barbs while our MW's go after Spain. Just thinking out loud here...I am soooo not the expert on barb battling. :hmm:

:devil:



It is a spotted horse parade.

I wouldn't be giving Republic for Polytheism as it should be cheap to research, no? And the research time will help prepare for the raging hordes. If you can get everybody in a position for good line of sight viewing that will help at home, but those marshlands will breed them like mosquitoes. Maybe jsut suck it up, drain the treasury and let them spend themselves against Blue Palo Verde. Not much to lose in a pop1 town unless it's a former Celt town with a wonder in it.

We can trade Lit for poly and drain the Spaniards and Brits bank accounts if we want so there's no need to trade republic. There are two MW's at home that can get to Blue Palo Verde and 3 more that will finish within 3 turns. Douglas Fir is a 3 turner for MW's (or 3 archers) so the next two will be the last when the GA ends.

Timing the barb invasion seems to be the issue. We have 5-6 turns left on our GA and x turns of republic revolt and currency will take 11 turns (more with anarchy) so we may not need to hold off on trading for poly.

How to spend the 400g in cash? We could spend some cash on upgrading our regular warriors to swords and we could then short rush some items before we finish currency.

The barbs were spawning S and NE of Entremont and NW of Blue Palo Verde so it might make sense to cover these areas first.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9384/barb3wu.jpg

Is it possible that I may end up with the barb uprising after all? Yay! :dance:

EDIT: I also notice that we have 1) fast units that rock :rockon: and 2) lots of marshes and jungles between us and our future real estate. Are catapults a useful investment in this situation? :hmm:

Are catapults a useful investment in this situation? :hmm:
Good point. In Blue Palo Verde I didn't want walls and a worker wouldn't finish in time but the others they could be changed.

I will attempt to time the trade for the end of our golden age.

Cats are always a good investment. we just need a road through the jungle.

Timing the barb invasion seems to be the issue. We have 5-6 turns left on our GA and x turns of republic revolt and currency will take 11 turns (more with anarchy) so we may not need to hold off on trading for poly.

The barbs were spawning S and NE of Entremont and NW of Blue Palo Verde so it might make sense to cover these areas first.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9384/barb3wu.jpg
I didn't realize we don't yet have currency, so that does give us more time. How about a settler for a town just S of the northern red dot to light up a portion of the jungle where movement is difficult? or would that slow down our military builds too much? too hard to defend? Just thinking out loud again. :hmm:

:devil:



How about a settler for a town just S of the northern red dot to light up a portion of the jungle where movement is difficult? or would that slow down our military builds too much? too hard to defend? Just thinking out loud again.

Park a warriors everywhere you think you can keep areas outside the cultural borders under surveillance and you should limit the marauders to spawning in the marshes. The area that represents a particular risk is the marshes west of BluePV, as anybarb horses that appear there can wreak havoc in two directions.

But you definitely have the right idea of building villages where the barbarians are now camping as barb bait.

Holy Dinsog Batman, I've got 2.5 pages to type out!

6 turns left on the GA. We're still working on currency so trading for poly won't trigger the end of age barb attack.

Decide P PIne doesn't really need running water and switch it to a worker.

Bella has furs near Murcia. Obvious target. Look around a a bit. Bella has no iron! Sound boots and saddles. Need to get some workers to the front to build a road thru the swamp of the river Kwai.

Hit the button. cookies and a stoogie fall out of the sky. the gods luv us.

330 - find this http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/935/booger21hs.jpg. No worries, I mentioned whomps hair and they mass suicided

290 - terminate the NW barb camp under the provo protocols

IT - London finishes Oracle. finally does her thing. find a previously undiscovered bottle of single malt

l lose a couple of suicide galleys due to poor notes. Scout secures the humidor. http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2615/booger40sq.jpg i can see the coast, but I can't get there, leave it for next better player

i really should write down what I'm taking pix of http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7960/booger30cv.jpg somehow this is important

Blah, blah, woof, woof until 150. I know I should not do this. but, dial up Liz and buy poly and 45g for lit.

Verify we have no units in spanish territory, and dial up Bella. hey chica, una cerveza por favor. She declines. Igor declares. something about "we fart in your general direction"

we kill various spanish units.

There are 7 MW in the vicinity of Murcuria. how the hell did they get there? :crazyeye:

purple dots. yeah, thats the ticket. purple dots. http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5623/booger52vm.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Scout_has_a_great_humidor_150_BC.SAV

@Igor: Here's your cerveza muy fria: :beer:

Got it... and will try to play tomorrow morning. I've got some RL cervezas goin' on after a long day.

The only thing about the purple dots is that those are marsh tiles. We'll need to drain those swamps before we can build on them.

bugs, about the purple dots. I was thinking there's really not that much for our workers to do, so draining swamps...

Pre-Flight Check:

Okay...somebody irrigated something outside Ponderosa Pine... presumably to irrigate the game at Aspen... only problem is, irrigating the game at Aspen would involve chopping a forest, and that's a :nono:

IBT - A spanish Archer dies attacking one of our archers, and a Spanish horse kills one of our MWs. A barb horseman jumps out of the fog and kills one of our workers outside Entremont. Douglas Fir trains a MW, starts a settler.

Turn 1 - 130 BC - We capture Murcia. Bald Cypress founded this turn. Wake a catapult and knick a HP off that barb horse. Kill the barb horse with a spear. Swap Blue Palo Verde to a Sword, and whip it. Swap Sequoia to a Harbor. Swap Staghorn Sumac to a Library.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6146/new19lm.jpg

IBT - Blue Palo Verde trains its sword, starts a worker. Tamarac trains a MW, starts a worker.

Turn 2 - 110 BC - Whack a couple of barbs, dispersing one camp. Take research WAAY back, so I can whack another barb camp next turn, and hopefully avoid a massive uprising in the swamp. Advance MWs on Santiago.

IBT - A Spanish settler pair advances.

Turn 3 - 90 BC - We invest Santiago. With Currency coming in next turn (whether I want it to or not) I carefully position our troops to eliminate as much of the Fog of War as I can.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1985/new23fh.jpg

IBT - Currency comes in, and I queue up Engineering... so we can plant trees to repair the earth after we drain her wetlands and clear her jungle. Spanish Horse kills one of our MWs outside Seville.

Sumac City completes a Library, and starts a Harbor. We get an expansion to the Imperial Wigwam after becoming the next tribe on the block to enter the Middle Ages.

Turn 4 - 70 BC - Whack the Spanish settler pair, and take a couple of scalps (slaves).

IBT - Spanish request an audience, and are rebuffed. The Rivers are our Brothers. The Spanish are good combat training for Brave Mounted Warriors, who must fight the English next.

Douglas Fir equips a settler, starts a Mounted Warrior.

Turn 5 - 50 BC - Dial up England and trade Currency for 100g +2gpt. Let's get this age-change over with. Something else we need to finish... I pull the trigger on revolt, and draw 5 turns of Anarchy. Hire some specialists.... take a screenshot so the team can see how much of the continent I can see.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9256/new42qh.th.jpg (http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new42qh.jpg)

IBT - Other than some Barb galleys... not much. No barbarian warnings on F3 at all.

Turn 6 - 30 BC - Levy some really heavy taxes on Santiago and Murcia. Organize some MWs for an advance on Seville.

IBT - Spanish advance an archer. Lots of Barbarian Galleys about.

Turn 7 - 10 BC - Whack an archer with an elite MW, who fails his promotion boards. Advance some WWs on Seville.

IBT - A Spanish Horseman dies attacking one of our MWs.

Turn 8 - 10 AD - Advance on Seville. We should take it next turn.

IBT - A Spanish Archer sends a not-so-brave (but Elite) Mounted Warrior into a retreat at Seville.

Turn 9 - 30 AD - The Spaniards have discovered Monarchy, and are in Anarchy. I lose 2 MW's attacking Seville. After whacking a couple of spears, I take a bit of a shot with a 2/5 MW versus a 2/3 Archer. This Elite MW was a little more brave, but still fails his promotion boards. We take 4 scalps with the city.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2885/new54lg.jpg

IBT - The Iroquois High Council is re-born as a Republic.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8759/new69xs.jpg

Turn 10 - Some of you have no doubt seen this before... I spend 92g on a temple to short rush the library at Entremont. 4g on a Temple in Aspen, swap to Library. 28g on a worker to short rush the Harbor at Sumac City. 16g on an Archer to short rush Staghorn Sumac's Library. Short Rush Ponderosa Pine's Settler with an Archer. Whack a Spanish Archer at Seville...move some troops in.

Notes: There is a settler headed for the coast NW of Blue Palo Verde. Remember - the rivers are our brothers! There are some workers clearing some marsh near a game on the SE coast. Be gentle with the assaults...as we don't have a great many reinforcements to send in. There are some archers and a Sword that could be used to reinforce Seville.

@Next better player, here's >>> The Save <<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_Scout_50AD.SAV).

It would appear that I get to have fun with both mopping up the Spanish defilers of this once pristine land, and also chop up some barbs. :woohoo: It's a bit late for me to give this the proper consideration, but I will apply all appropriate cerebral and martial skills to this one in the requisite 72.

monkey talk good.

Well done Scout. So any bets on whether the Monkey man leaves me any Spaniards to attack?

Well done Scout. So any bets on whether the Monkey man leaves me any Spaniards to attack?You might want to start analzying the English holdings, Bugs. ;)

:devil:



Interesting outcomes. Republic and Middle Ages in early AD despite a lack of field improvements.

Looks like the Spanish jungles will be the worst source of the barbarian uprising, maybe you get some help out there.

So glad I am not Lizzie's consort right now.....

Preflight (50AD) A quick look at the world that scout has entrusted to me. Well then. For one, this is an exceptionally brightly lit map. No fog of warishness right up to the Spanish borders. The jungles and marshes were really our friends in this game -- Spain and England didn't have too many chances to expand before. Now, of course, they have none. Spain is down to five cities, none over size 6. Liz has three. A quick peek at F7 tells me that ToA is building in Madrid, and also in London. Dunno how long it's going to take either of these gals to finish it for us. I suppose that if we run out of patience sitting outside of Madrid's gates, we could just finish off Spain and let Liz do the work for us in London. Oh, and Barcelona, Spain's only other productive city, is hard at work on the Mausoleum. Good wartime mobilization, Bella! :rockon:

Our cash reserves are plenty healthy, despite a touch of rushing in the last turnset. I could crank up research to 40% and pick up Engineering lot faster than the minimum, but without prior instructions, I'll leave it be for the time being. In fact, I turn it all the way down to zero for a few more pennies and let our lone scientist earn his paycheck. Can always blast away at deficit research later to catch up. Turn the beer and dancers fund down to 10% as well, with no-one ready to riot. Income, after a bit more fiddling, is now 54gpt.

Just for fun, I dial Liz's digits. She's not so happy to hear from me. Nothing on hand to trade. With 3 cities she's not gonna be a research monster in this game. Then I call up Bella. "I tire of these brutal, senseless wars," I say. "Can we not find a way to live together in harmony and brotherhood? Smoke the pipe of peace with me, Bella." I offer her a peace treaty and 20gpt to make up her losses.

Not. :rotfl:

Time to hit enter.

IBT A barb galley drifts away. That's all. Tamarac spits out a worker, and I set it to build a galley. Must make some friends. We will soon have no-one here on this continent to play with.

Turn 1 (70AD) We have catapults in Entremont that are going to be rusty buckets before they have time to cross to Spain. I fortify them in place. Rush the spearman in Santiago to free up that MP to do something more useful than play with his warpaint. Switch Murcia's build from a worker to a warrior, as Murcia won't grow for 10 more turns and the worker would be complete in 5. Short rush the warrior for 20, and then switch to a spear and rush that. This frees up another MW for more useful things. Move troops eastward very carefully, trying to keep the map as brightly lit as possible. Our wounded troops heal up in Seville and I consolidate some.

IBT Santiago gets its spear, and I set it to build a harbor. Can easily be switched to something else later. Murcia gets its spear as well, and gets to work on a worker to (eventually) hook up those furs.

Turn 2 (90AD) Our settler by the sea gives us Silver Birch, whose first build will be a worker, timed right for growth. Other troops move east. Still trying to keep every inch of this map in the spotlight.

IBT One Spanish archer emerges from Salamanca. Unfortuneately for him, that puts him in range of two MWs, hungry for scalps. Wonder how this one is going to turn out. :hmm:

Turn 3 (110AD) Fortify the two MWs just to see if the archer will take the bait. Continue to move Appaloosas east. Freshly healed troops are ready to move on Valencia in another turn or two.

IBT The archer tries his luck. Retreats our MW and gets yellowlined for his trouble. Build some more MWs and micromanage for gold and food in most places, production in others. (Our capital is now a perfect 10 shield MW machine.) The Arabs build the Hanging Gardens in Mecca. And, unfortunately, the Maya build ToA in Chichen Itza, a little bit out of our reach for now. :( They also build the Pyramids in Palenque. Maya with Pyramids is not a good thing, I tell you what. :eek: Spain and England cascade to nothing, apparently.

Turn 4 (130AD) Pick off the offending archer, revealing another one nearby. (1-0) Troops continue to move gently through the jungle and swamps. We lost our lone scientist when we built our settler, so I have to retrain a tax collector to work in our forest laboratories.

IBT Spanish archers do their best against our MWs. We retreat and they get yellowlined. Madrid finishes the Mausoleum, and Babylon gets the SoZ. Barcelona and London are now hard at work on the GLib. We shall see.

Turn 5 (150AD) First order of business is Valencia -- size 1 and in our way. A vet MW kills a spear and get redlined ... wait, does anybody really care about the details? Here's all you need to know.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/valencia.jpg

Score is now 4-0.

Troops are only moving at infantryman speed. :mad: Otherwise I'd have more progress to report. More or less we have two task forces, one to converge on Salamanca in the north, one on Madrid in the south. After that it's mopping up time, but I might not be the one to do it. We shall see.

IBT Entremont gets a library and starts to work on an aquaduct. It actually has enough food around it to get a decent size someday. We'll also have to tend to pillaging the Celts' old improvements sooner or later.

Turn 6 (170AD Kill more Spanish archers. (7-0) Not enough healthy troops in position to take any cities yet.

IBT Kill another archer on defense. (8-0)

Turn 7 (190AD) A touch of the war weariness is setting in. Must either spend money on a kegger for our two size 6 cities, or disrupt their nice micromanagement. I splurge on beer. Entertainment is now at 20%.

Troops heal, and healthy ones move inch by freaking inch eastward.

IBT I didn't think she had it in her. Bella actually lands an archer right next to completely undefended Entremont. Some other pesky archers pop out of the fog.

Turn 8 (210AD) I panic for approximately 8 seconds, then see that I can divert a replacement MW to cover Entremont. Ping the invading archer with those catapults that were doing not much of anything, and then finish him off with the MW, who promotes to elite. (9-0) I now note that Madrid is size 7, a bit harder nut to crack. We shall see.

IBT :sleep:

Turn 9 (230AD) Kill an archer and consolidate troops. (10-0) What, you were expecting nukes? Move our slower troops on the mountain outside of Madrid down to where they can do some good next turn.

IBT Liz parks a galley offshore of Entremont. Either she's going to declare, or she's going to land a settler for our swampland.

Turn 10 (250AD) I peevishly move our Irish catapults to block an immediate landing by the English, whatever they plan on doing. A more generous player can move them back if he or she likes.

Let's see just how many defenders Bella has in her capital.

Turns out to be six. Our MW kill 4, and two swords die yellowlining the remaining two reg spears. (14-2) :cringe So close, but not this time. Other troops are making their way to Salamanca for some fun for the next better player.

We have a settler waiting on top of some marshes at the other purple dot. Workers there should have the marsh cleared next turn. Other workers are ready to start an irrigation chain to Entremont. Other troops are positioned where they can keep an eye out for barbs. I rushed a couple of harbors on our west coast, and we have a galley coming out of the docks to try again for that mystery coast that has sunk so many of our brave sailors. I left research at minimum, but we have a fairly decent bankroll (851g and +38gpt after entertainment and cash-rushing), should anyone care to melt down our credit cards in the next turnset. Here's a picture of our Spanish front.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/spain1.jpg

And here's the >>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_Monkey_250AD.SAV)

I have it, although the SGOTM came up first. This one might take 48 hours to post.

So can I take out the Spaniards in my ten turns? Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.

Nice turns, SimpleMonkey! :thumbsup:

Let's not pillage the improvements at Entremont; instead let's just plant some trees on those mines.

I can't remember if we decided on whether to allow roads through forests we plant - does anybody object to that?

On research: Let's run minimum research for a while, and start short rushing infrastructure with the cash. As shield-poor as we are in this game, perhaps that will make up for the lack of shields... somewhat.

I'm betting Sir Bugs can take out the Spaniards in 5 and start putting a hurt on Liz by the end of his turn set. The big slow down is lack of roads through our pristine wetlands and rainforests, but there are finally some troops moved to where they can do some good.

The other slowdown might be war-weariness.

If we have roads through forests, can we still limit rails to just intercity transport? How does that sound? My understanding is still that we can irrigate food bonuses and mine mineral bonuses and that's it. Plus irrigation corridors are okay. Or are we going to replant non-bonus plains and grasslands that we've used in irrigation chains?

All that wet stuff really is rough on our logistics.... true. War weariness shouldn't be too much of a problem if we're winning. ;) If we have roads through forests, can we still limit rails to just intercity transport? How does that sound? My understanding is still that we can irrigate food bonuses and mine mineral bonuses and that's it. Plus irrigation corridors are okay. Or are we going to replant non-bonus plains and grasslands that we've used in irrigation chains?I agree that the rails should actually go somewhere... but I don't think we should object to railing our bonus squares. As for what we plant trees on... I think it would make more sense to plant on the non-bonus grass first... but with all this jungle and marsh we're going to clear... we will soon need a LOT of workers.

As for mining and irrigating... I don't object to irrigating non-food resources or mining bonus food tiles if it makes sense... though in those outlying areas (like the 2 wheat out in the hinterlands) it will probably make more sense to irrigate and hire some specialists.

What I specifically don't want to do is chop trees to harvest game. I think Chief Seattle would prefer that the deer live in the forest.

:devil:



Maybe they are bison and live in the grasslands, :hmm:

Nice progress SM :thumbsup:

Second Hand War Horse Log

Pre-flight – rename Murcia to Sugar Maple. Rename Santiago to Coconut Palm. Rename Seville to Palmetto. Switch Bald Cyprus from a spear to a barracks.

IBT – Lizzy drops off a settler pair.
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/937/260adshwh5ae.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
We can’t have that.

260 – I attack the settler pair setting up another war. Two slaves. I attack with our healthy Mountie at Madrid, but they have at least two defenders. Found Lodgepole Pine. I have to bump lux for a turn.

270 - @ Salamanca – Win, retrat, win and…
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5269/260adsalamanca1xe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Rename that to White Birch.

IBT – A Spanish horse is dropped off next to Entremont. A Spanish archer attacks a mountie in the jungle and loses.

280 – Dispatch the invader. Start a suicide galley northward. Marching on Madrid.

290 – Not much, cutting roads through the swamps.

300 – We’re set up to take Madrid next turn.

310 – @ Madrid: On our third kill we get this joyous news:
http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/7163/260adshenendoah9ic.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
We need to kill two more defenders, but eventually we capture the city. Shenandoah forms Bugsy’s Mounties.

IBT – galley sinks.

320 - @ Toledo – We take out the three defenders without loss.
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5798/260adtoledo6bk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Spot an English archer in the jungle headed our way. March on Barcelona. Rename Toledo to Dogwood City. Rename Madrid to Joshua Tree.

330- Our new army is doubly victorious with one member gaining a promotion. That is enough for the Spaniards. http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1520/260adspanish9ts.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
To be continued…

So can I take out the Spaniards in my ten turns? Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.
Only 8 turns as I count it, Bugs. I'm impressed. :goodjob:

330 (con’t) – Rename Barcelona to Cottonwood. Rename Entremont to Rowan Tree (a mystical Irish tree). Kill the English archer.

IBT – We get the heroic epic message.

340 – Found Witchhazel. Marching on England.

IBT – Lizzy wants to talk. She won’t give us any cities and she won’t stop harming the earth. No dice.

350 – Continue marching towards England. Take out an archer. We are set up for Hastings and Canterbury next turn. Start another suicide galley and spot a pink frontier.

After Action – I have stopped building new military. Shifting to infrastructure. Don’t put a third mountie in the army. We’ll need to be able to transport it.

SAVE: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01,_350_AD.SAV

Very nice set Bugs!

If we survive the IT we'll be in a good position with the other continent.

How much cash are we carrying to short rush?

I'd think harbors will be mighty important in this game since they're our only consistent food and commerce tiles in the core.

:thumbsup: :salute: :wavey:

Well done Leader of Mounties.

Well fought there, Bugs! Now we need to make Lizzy stop harming mother earth...

Got it and hope to get it played tonight.

Took a look at the save and see we are still at zero research, albeit with Engineering in the queue. Are we postponing having to plant trees?

Looks like you set me up nicely, Bugs. :goodjob: I'll see what I can do about the English. Looks to be slow going without many roads.

I think we can start researching in earnest again, as soon as the Great Spirit moves you.

I think we can start researching in earnest again, as soon as the Great Spirit moves you.
Well..... I already started and just played most of turn 7. I thought I'd better stop at this point, post my log, pics and save, and get some team input. I didn't start up research again yet, but we have conquered the Glib. We have one settler out, no current dot map, and I wasn't sure if we we wanted to do ICS or perhaps plan for an eventual revolt to Commie. We've met 3 more civs, but only suicide galleys will reach them. England must have a settler on a boat.

I'll post for discusssion and finish up tomorrow night. So here goes.

SHWH01 350ad

Pre-turn: Everything looks fine, so hit <enter>.

IT - Bald Cypress rax -> court, Palmetto spear -> worker, Blue Palo Verde rax -> court, Lodgepole Pine worker -> worker. Hittites complete the Great Wall in Hattusas.

1. 360ad - Battle of Hastings: elite M/W kills reg spear but is redlined, elite M/W kills reg spear and now 3/5, 4/5 elite M/W kills reg archer and Hastings is ours -> temple, 1 resister and 3 slaves. Renamed Date Palm. Move units in to heal.

Battle of Canterbury: Bugsy's Mounties kill reg spear, then kill 2nd reg spear and Canterbury is ours -> temple, 1 resister and 3 slaves. Renamed Coastal Redwood. Bugsy's Mounties at 4/9.

Our galley survives to arrive at Anjar, Arabia.

IT - Resistance ends in Dogwood. Silver Birch worker -> worker.

2. 370ad - Arabia is up Monarchy and Feudalism, we are up lit. No trade possible. Our galley sees the red borders of Babylon. Moving and healing units.

IT - Sumac City galley -> aqua, White Birch worker -> worker, Resistance ends in Date Palm and Coastal Redwood...hire tax collectors.

3. 380ad - Disperse barb camp near Lodgepole pine for 25g. Moving units toward London and York.

IT - English spear moves toward Coastal Redwood. Silver Maple harbor - lib.

4. 390ad - moving units. Babs are up Monarchy and Feudalism. Hammi wants Lit and about 1,100g for Feudalism, Abu wants Lit and about 1,200g. Not yet. Galley spots blue borders of the Maya.

IT - English spear moves toward Date Palm and English galley toward Cottonwood. P Pine settler -> sword (just in case English galley comes acallin'. Oh, how nice...London just completed the GLib for us.

5. 400ad - Troops move into position for attacks next turn. Settler moves east. New galley heads across to try exploring more of Arabia.

IT - Joshua Tree worker -> worker, Witchhazel worker -> worker.

6. 410ad - Our galley sinks in treacherous waters. The Maya are up Monarch and down several techs to us. Our M/W takes out lone English spear near Date Palm.

Battle of York: Bugsy's Mounties kill 2 reg spears and an archer, and York is ours -> temple, 2 resisters, no slaves. Rename to Valley Oak.

Battle of London: Elite MW attacks reg spear and London is ours with The Oracle, The Colassus and the GLib, as well as 2 slaves. Rename to English Walnut. Move troops to dispel fog.

We received no message that the English have been destroyed, though MapStat shows they have zero cities. Must be a settler on the galley near Dogwood City, so I swapped an aqua in Sumac city to a galley, hoping to go after their galley.

IT - We learn Monarchy and Feudalism from the Glib. Douglas Fir lib -> market, Aspen harbor -> aqua, Dogwood City worker -> harbor

7. 420ad - worker moves, curragh explores.

Here's the save if anyone wants to take a look. Pics to follow.

360 AD - Hastings taken
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/360ad_Hastings_Taken.JPG
360 AD - Canterbury taken
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/360ad_Canterbury_Taken.JPG
410 AD - York taken
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/410ad_York_taken.JPG
410 AD - London taken
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/410ad_London_taken.JPG
420 AD - Newly conquered lands
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/420ad_New_Conquests.JPG
420 AD - Foreign shores
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/420ad_Foreign_Shores.JPG

Research to zero and let the G library work. Build libraries and other infrastructure. Hunt down the English galley. Check to see if the settler hasn't been dropped off. Well played Harriet!

Hunt down the English galley. Check to see if the settler hasn't been dropped off.
I don't think he has been. I've been watching the galley move along our south coast and you can still see it in the 5th pic just south of Dogwood City. It looks like there's a separate unsettled island just south of Bald Cypress, and I'll bet that's where he's headed. If so, they should be easy enough to pick off if we can get a galley or two with some MW's.

I could sure use some input on where to settle our next town. It would be easy to ICS all the jungle on the east side of our lands, but if we want to go Commie the spacing would be more open, wouldn't it? and we can't do much development anywhere, so I'm unclear what would make sense. Our current single settler is standing just west of Staghorn Sumac. What type of layout makes sense for a domination (or conquest) win?

I think we want somethin in between ICS and optimal. I think eventually we will want to go commie. I would say try and get between 12 and 18 tiles per city. As for where....

Somewhere between Cottonwood and White Birch looks good.
on the coast between palmetto and Witchhazel.

Also northwest of lodgepole.

Haven't build the FP yet either, have we? That might be a helpful thing. As has been said by other, wiser heads, we need workers galore at this point. If nothing else, hooking up our two newly acquired lux would be nice.

between Datepalm & York?

I think we want somethin in between ICS and optimal.... I would say try and get between 12 and 18 tiles per city.Yes, let's try to keep it a little loose, and settle where a city can work at least one "bonus resource" of some sort.
Somewhere between Cottonwood and White Birch looks good.I think I see a dyes tile that can't be worked by any existing cities...
on the coast between palmetto and Witchhazel....and a banana that can't be used at the moment.

Edit: Nice looking turns, harriet! :hammer:

Thanks for all the good settlement suggestionsl. I think I'll go for a jungle settlement first, as our workers are currently connecting the furs and otherwise roading...out of position for much swamp clearing atm for settling there. With all the new workers in the queue, that situation should soon improve.

Will continue playing now.

Turnlog continued from Turn 7:

7. 420ad - worker moves, galley explores. Swap P Pine to MW just in case the English galley (probably with settler) thinks our lightly defended core looks appealing, but will probably change production to settler if the English head for the island south of Bald Cypress.

IT - Maya ask us to move our galley...sure. Cottonwood worker -> worker. Lose citizen to disease in Palmetto. Sumac City galley -> market

8. 430ad - head some of our MW's back toward our core. worker moves.

IT - English galley continues westward. Rowen Tree rax -> court. Lose another citizen to disease in Palmetto.

9. 440ad - Furs are now connected to our trade route. Change all the builds in ex-England to workers.

IT - Mayans complete the GLight.

10. 450ad - worker/unit moves.

Afterturn report: Not much happened the last few turns beyond worker moves, trying to connect towns and set up for swamp drainage. Feel free to change any builds. Our settler is currently in Lodgepole Pine and headed for the bend in the jungle/river between Cottonwood and White Birch, but could easily be sent elsewhere.

5 MW's are near Cottonwood and headed toward our core to discourage an English settler landing, though last I saw their galley disappeared south and our local galley is headed S/E to meet up with MW's.

We are still up lit on all the other continent's civs, and the Maya are down Currency, Republic and Construction. Only Arabia has any gold.

Here's the save. Pix to follow.

450 AD - Our core
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/450ad_Our_Core.JPG
450 AD - Eastern Empire
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/450ad_Eastern_Empire.JPG
450 AD - Foreign Lands
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/450ad_Foreign_Lands.JPG

Nice set GramH! I will do my best to continue the momentum. Got it.

5 MW's are near Cottonwood and headed toward our core to discourage an English settler landing, though last I saw their galley disappeared south and our local galley is headed S/E to meet up with MW's.


Discourage her? We want Liz to land in our territory. We have a present waiting for her. :devil:

Discourage her? We want Liz to land in our territory. We have a present waiting for her. :devil:
Um, yes, that would be great, provided we have that present available. Some of our towns are undefended and the escorting spear could just walk right in. :hmm:

Pre-turn: It's quite a treat to follow Gmaharriet. I only change a couple things due to variant. Mines and irrigation are a no no so I move some citizens to water tiles or unmined roads. Decide a couple builds might need to shift like Douglas Fir can't grow without a harbor so switch from a market. Ponderosa Pine needs a harbor too. Rowan looks like a good FP site.

Red Oak, Staghorn Sumac and Sumac City look like a few of our powerhouses. Move lux to only 10%. I think I'll go barb hunting for gold and promotions. I also disband some reg warriors and spears for shields since our unit support is 48gpt.

IT English plant on a 2 tile island. Phew. Arabs start Sun Tzu. Doh...somehow I let English Pine set fire.

460Price is coming down on lit by the Arabs so I sell it for 8gpt and 15g. Short rush some stuff and throw some rocks at the english galley but miss.

IT :eek: What will we do? GLib. Gone. Oracle. Gone. Another wonder. Gone.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5130/flip7is.jpg

470 Lose an elite but take the city back. Do a little rushing.

IT English galley runs
480 Move and short rush. A bunch of ducts will finish next.

IT She's a runner...
490

IT we learn Mono
500 Arabs are getting educated. They're at tech parity. Rushing.

IT English galley heads north.
510 Common Hop Tree established. Hit the galley with rocks this time. Rushing.

IT
520 Finally land on the English island. Throw more rocks and redline the galley.

IT Galley hides
530 Vet MW gets an arrow but takes a spear. Elite retreats but weakens another. There's a 3rd spear. Land more stuff.

IT
540 Shoot...Lose an elite but take another spear.

IT What the heck...
550 DANGIT!(tm Scout) :mischief:

Well I think that's the first time I've ever seen this....it's so... how do you say MoM like...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8721/worker1at.jpg

OK well thanks. We rename the place Pignut Hickory

Summary
Noone to whack....well...sort of. :hmm: Most of the turns were workers cutting jungles and marshes along with some rush builds.

Whaa?? :confused: How did Liz have so many troops on an island that she just settled? And did you finally take it with a catapult???

There were 3 spears and a archer but then their boat left harbor and took the spear and archer with it. :crazyeye:

There was a MW underneath the cat. Sorry for my twisted sense of humor but Coventry is now Pignut Hickory.

Well done Whomper. Two down. Three to go. We'll need a navy to go much farther.

Two down. Three to go.@Bugs: Did you forget that our Brave and Noble Protectors of the Trees have already vanquished the Celts?

Me gots it. tomorrow

@Bugs: Did you forget that our Brave and Noble Protectors of the Trees have already vanquished the Celts?
Yes I did. Score: three down, three to go. We need to hurry to a strong navy so that we can stop the ravishment of mother earth and save the sacred trees.

To that end -- the invasion and reclaiming of lands across the big sky waters -- should we push to get Astronomy sooner rather than later? It would kill the GLib, but at this point we don't really need it for catch-up. Just a thought. I suppose we could always transport cavalry and cannons by galley instead.

Galleys might sink. We can't afford that.

There were 3 spears and a archer but then their boat left harbor and took the spear and archer with it. :crazyeye:
Are we absolutely sure the witch is dead? No settler hiding down in the hold? :D

Yep Lizzie's done. They were kind enough to leave a slave and I was so stunned when I saw it I didn't think to sink the injured boat before I walked into the city.

Well, this is whacked and apparently I can't count. sorry for the delay, Igor had baseball last night, now 5-0 with 2 saves, doesn't throw curves or sliders.

There simply wasn't much to do. so had the peeps do the bunny breeding of workers and chopped marsh. I probably should have started a prebuild somewhere, but, hey, I'm an idiot. Just built the bank.

Rivals still alive = 4

Moved the boats a bit.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Hiawatha_of_the_Iroquois,_640_AD.SAV

Leave strategic type thinking to next (much) better player

(drumroll...)

...and the award for the world's shortest turnlog goes to...

"Got it." Though I have no idea what to do with it. :crazyeye:

@AK: I think it's time you got a new nickname. Maybe I'll borrow the theme from the Ogalalla Sioux. They had a warrior who was called "Man Afraid of His Horses.

Sounds funny, doesn't it? His full name was "Man who is so fierce, his enemies are afraid even of his horses."

Or something like that.

...sooo... in the tradition of one of the greatest North American Nations, I hereby dub you:

"Admiral who can't lose his boat."

Translated, the full name is:

"Admiral, who can't lose his boat, because you can't lose something that must be dug up and found in the first place." :p

Well, you could plant some trees, I suppose.

we don't have that tech yet

We still don't have Engineering?? I guess we're gonna play out the GLib for all it's worth. Perhaps saving for some upgrades? :hmm:

the bank is growing like whomp's scalp on rogaine

saving for a steal

the bank is growing like whomp's scalp on rogaine

saving for a steal
Ah, if only this were real gold and we'd had it invested in the stock market since we stopped researching hundreds of years ago, we could afford to buy the entire world to fill with trees. :p

@AdmiralK: I gotta know... and I want a straight answer. Did you and Whomp get together and decide to play a little "bad apple" on a poor ol' second-hand-warhorse?

I mean... well just... dang. Have a look at my pre-flight.

Pre-flight check...

Start the turn at 1879g, +164gpt, Theology in... never? Okay... um... minimum research is one thing... but research is shut completely down... and we don't have Engineering yet, which means we can't plant trees...and we need Astronomy to build caravels and conquer save the world!

How are we going to conquer save the earth if we can't plant trees and build Caravels????!?!?!

Okay... it's time to start picking nits here...

English Walnut has 2 resisting citizens...with 2 Elite Mounted Warriors fortified outside the town... and ... how long ago did we take this town? IIRC, I'm the one who took it... do you guys mean we couldn't deal with 2 lousy English resistors in what... 50 turns? C'mon team, we're talking about the civ whose greatest culinary achievements are Fish 'n Chip and Cucumber sammiches. And we have a .. temple queue'd up in Cottonwood? With a clown on the payroll? Hire a scientist, and start managing the empire.

Something to consider: We own 416 tiles in the game (per MapStat). In-game, F8 tells us we've got 29% of world area. I started counting... but there are over 50 tiles on our continent that could be claimed on our home continent. By my calculations we should be able to increase our total to around 33-34% with the land we have on hand.

Let's see if I can make a dent in that.

Rushes/Short Rushes this turn:
I spend 16g on a MDI short-rush of Ponderosa Pine's Market.
36g to finish Silver Maples Library.
24g on a MDI to short rush Date Palm's Library.
40g on a MDI short rush of Sequoia's Market.
40g on a MDI short rush of Lodgepole Pine's Library
72g to rush the Galley in Sugar Maple, and swap to Library.
Spend 44g short rushing a spear into Pignut Hickory, which gets swapped from worker to Harbor.
Spend 28g short rushing a worker into Joshua tree, swap it to Library.
MM Douglas Fir for food, and swap to settler.
Spend 28g short rushing a worker at Valley Oak, swap to Library.
Rinse and repeat at Palmetto.
72g to rush finish the settler at Dogwood City, swap to Library.
Swap Cottonwood to a Libary, and spend 32g to short rush with an archer.
Does Sumac city need a court? Not so sure...but short rush a settler into it.
16g into a worker short rush for a Library at White Birch.
40g into a MDI at Sugar Maple, swap to Temple.
20g into a worker at Shagbark Hickory, swap to Temple.
36g into a worker at Bald Cypress, swap to Library.
Disband an archer for 5 shields into Joshua Tree's build.

We have a temple at Cocounut Palm. Now that the borders have expanded, I sell that sucker for 15g. Tack on 1gpt for the next...50 turns, and that's a cost effective move. That town can grow to size 6 (supporting 3 scientists) while not utilizing a pair of roaded game tiles that are completely out of reach for any other town. Swap to settler for the moment; we need another town in there.

That's odd... I see a settler in Lodgepole Pine... but I could swear I did not see one in the unit count in F3...double-check, 'tis true. It seems we have a "foreign settler". Take a screenshot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SPANSETT.jpg

End the pre-flight check at 1302g, +162gpt, Theology in 17. Who wants to bet I'm spending more than 2gpt on Theology? I didn't touch the slider! :p

Okay... I scan around the empire and see workers whacking away at all manner of things... if I let these guys finish, we'll be on Alpha centauri by the time we get a tile of trees planted for every tile of jungle/marsh cleared.

Time to check back with the team.

At the risk of sounding like a ... nevermind. Okay... Let's go back over the intent with this variant: It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to make us "think outside the box" a bit. It's supposed to get a lot harder as the game matures. Consider these points: We just kicked some fledgeling Monarch level AI off the planet in an age (and with a unit) that is uniquely suited to that role. In order to have a realistic chance at domination/conquest in this game, we need Caravels. That means we're going to need to invade another continent in the early/mid-middle ages... with outdated units.... that'll likely be facing pikes and MDI.
In short, we don't need to fall asleep at the wheel here people. If we continue to play like this... in a game that is "only" at Monarch level... it will quickly feel like Demigod as the AI build infrastructure that we cannot support in our "green" empire.

Now bear in mind - I haven't even finished my pre-flight check. Thre is still the matter of all these workers hacking away at mother earth. Many of them are hacking away at tiles we'll never really use.

So... having said that...

@Team: You're in the penalty box. :spank:

Do you want to get out of the penalty box? Download my pre-flight save, look at what the workers are up to, and ask yourself the following questions: Would Chief Seattle approve? Would Bede approve?Make some decent suggestions about what to do with the workers, and I'll play the game and we'll move forward.

>>> scout's pre-flight save <<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_Scout_640AD_preflight.SAV)

Clearing Jungle and Marsh tiles IS allowed, provided it is done in accordance with our "Wetlands Mitigation Plan". For each tile cleared, we must plant one tile of forest.

:blush: Wow! I didn't know I played so badly. Sorry Scout. I'll look at the save and make some suggestions.

:salute: Yes sir! Three bags full! :D

:blush: Wow! I didn't know I played so badly.
Bugs, I don't think you can take the blame for this. Five of us have had it since Scout's last turn, so we all get a share.

I looked at the saves at the ends of my turn, Whomp's and AK's. I'm mystified by that Spanish settler. There was a lone settler standing in exactly the same spot when I finished, but he was definitely ours. There was a Spanish settler near White Birch at the end of Whomp's turns, and I guess that's the same one we see now. How can you get a Spanish settler after the civ is extinct? :confused:

I haven't many ideas for where we should go from here. I guess crank up research, make a dot map of where else we want to settle and set our workers to concentrate on clearing the swamp tiles where we want new towns.

I'm a pretty poor warmonger unless I have a decided advantage over the AI, so I'll leave military suggestions to those more knowledgable than I.

Scout, I apologize for my contributions to the problem. :(

I looked at the saves at the ends of my turn, Whomp's and AK's. I'm mystified by that Spanish settler. There was a lone settler standing in exactly the same spot when I finished, but he was definitely ours. There was a Spanish settler near White Birch at the end of Whomp's turns, and I guess that's the same one we see now. How can you get a Spanish settler after the civ is extinct? :confused:


Just build a settler with foreign pop (in a captured city for example). You can do the same with workers too, i.e. essentially build slaves. IIRC it comes with slight consequences for attitude though.

I'm wondering how many sheilds were already invested in Engineering. Is it switch to Theology already a done deal?

Scout, can we get a final clarification on what improvements are allowed, and which ones are going to be mandatory once we learn how to plant trees to heal the earth?

I'll take my beating on this one too. I've pretty much got the pop-rush thing down, but I did absolutely no cash short-rushing during my turnset. Just let everything build one turn at a time. :blush: Perhaps a reminder on the technique would help.

Heh...they send me to Princeton and give me a computer. Dangerous.

OK I will take the hit on the resisting citizens. I took all the units out of the English cities since I didn't want units inside in case they flipped. English Walnut did flip on my turns but was taken back the next turn.

I did a lot of rushing and short rushing over my turns almost to the point where I was concerned about our future deficit research rate if I drew it down too much. I guess my thinking is with the Glib why wouldn't we wait till the AI researches while we rush builds and capture cash for the deficit reseach burn? Am I wrong in this thinking?

I will check things out when I get home tonight.

@SimpleMonkey: You've asked some good questions.

My thoughts on what improvements are "allowed"... it depends on what the empire needs.

If the empire needs culture, and the town is capable of generating a little uncorrupted science, we can build a Library. If the extra science doesn't justify the maintenance cost, the Library can be sold off after the borders expand.

In towns that are hopelessly corrupt, maybe we'll build some (dare I say it?) temples... and again, sell them off after border expansions.

Harbors are something we should build in some coastal towns, as they net us the food we need to harvest the 3gpt you can get from a coastal tile.

Courts are something we need to be careful with. Many of our towns are shield-poor due to lack of terrain improvements, not corruption.

Markets are something we'll need in any town capable of growing past size 6 if we want citizens on the tiles instead of specialists.

I'll post my thoughts on cash-rushing and short rushing shortly.

Nice pre-flight, scout!:goodjob: It seems scientist farms are not permitted by Chief Seattle, are they?

Marshes are sure to reveal BG's. I've got a question. By Chief Seattle's rules, are bonus grasslands considered resources?

well, good luck team.:rockon:

Marshes are sure to reveal BG's. I've got a question. By Chief Seattle's rules, are bonus grasslands considered resources?
No, bonus grass is just grass, though it's alright to road it if it just happens to be on the route to connect cities. I'd asked the same question myself, Ansar...I mean, they even include the word "bonus", right? :hmm:

On short rushing: Conceptually it's a lot like pop-rushing; the name of the game is to get the maximum benefit from the expenditure.

The most expensive rush is the one that starts on an empty bin. When the bin is empty, the shields cost 8g each. So a ten-shield worker rushed into an empty bin will cost 80g. Likewise, a 40-shield MDI will cost 320 gold if rushed into an empty bin.

Now here's where you can get creative.

If you've got any shields in the bin at all, the shields are "half-price"; costing 4g each... even if the shields in the bin are from a previous cash-rush.

Back to our 40-shield MDI: If you start with an empty bin, you can rush a worker for 80g (this is the "short rush") and then finish the rush for 4gps, or an additional 120g. So the MDI that cost you 320g when rushed in one fell swoop will now cost 200g.

Bear in mind - this is as expensive as cash-rushing should get.

Now here's where we can take this newfound source of creativity, and turn it into an art form. Any city that's not rioting... even a woefully corrupt city on the edge of your empire will produce one lousy shield per turn. Now let's see how we can leverage that one lousy shield.

A Short-Rush Cycle Scenario, build goal: Library.

Turn 0 - Empty bin, queue set to library.
Turn 1 - One shield in the bin. Swap to worker and short rush for 36g.
Turn 2 - Eleven shields in the bin. Swap to Archer (or Explorer) and short rush for 36g.
Turn 3 - Twenty-one shields in the bin. Swap to Swordsman/Pike/settler and short rush for 36g. (Are you seeing a pattern here?)
Turn 4 - Thirty-one shields in the bin. Swap to MDI/Longbow/Barracks and short-rush for (you guessed it) 36g.
Turn 5 - 41 shields in the bin, and it's starting to get dicey here... I can't think of anything that costs 50 shields. But a Granary/Temple will cost 60. Short rush that for 76g.
Turn 6 - Now we've got 61 shields in the bin, and the library can be rushed to completion for 76g. We've just completed our Library at a cost of 296g and a half-dozen shields. If we'd rushed that Library from an empty queue it would have cost us 640g. Waiting on it to be built brick-by-brick... and... well... you get the picture.

Rule of thumb: Short-Rush up to the very next even multiple of ten. This lets you "spread it around" a bit... 9 shields into 2 cities can often be better for empire building than 18 shields into one.

Higher art: Short rushing can also minimize shield over-runs.

On occasion you will find some really interesting short rushing opportunities. For example: a town producing 7 spt with 28 shields in the bin will complete a Market in 11 turns, or a Pike next turn. Spending 8g on the pike now will shave a turn off the build, reduce the number of shields needed for the build to 70, and eliminate shield over-run.

Places short-rushing can be extremely powerful:
Tundra fishing villages that are producing good uncorrupted gold.
Floodplain cities that can grow like crazy and make uncorrupted gold (and workers or settlers).
Anyplace that the empire needs something in a city, but the city needs help producing it... that's a candidate for short rushing.

Lights are coming on for this monkey like Broadway after dark. :) Thanks for the enlightenment, scout.

Great write-up, Scout! I've often seen you write this sort of thing in your logs, but didn't understand exactly what you were doing, particularly when it didn't complete building what was eventually intended. You HAVE turned it into an art form. :goodjob:

Scout, guilty as charged. i was 3 sheets to the wind and was thinking about clearing marsh and exploring. I didn't build the foreign settler. i missed the temple. My thought while I was polishing the tooth was to steal our way to astro.

Re: thinking outside the box

We've got some down time here. How bout we become ecological communists? i have issues (everywhere) but most specifically with taking out tech superior civs. With commie we don't have to. feel free to eject me when the time is right. i have issues :crazyeye:

RE: the short rush. i get nervous i'll f something up so i don't do it until I have to. I know I'm not the best at short rush, so I built the bank and left it to scout.

i'll focus next set. just give me some goals.

RE: the short rush. i get nervous i'll f something up so i don't do it until I have to. I know I'm not the best at short rush, so I built the bank and left it to scout.

i'll focus next set. just give me some goals.
I'm the same way, AK, not just with short rushing, and especially if I'm not clear on a short-term goal. I'll just do something "safe", hoping I won't cause actual damage. And you've seen me stop and ask a lot of questions, because I'm really looking for guidance.

@AK: I'm not ejecting anybody - we're all friends here, and I wanted to play this one among friends. We (and that includes me) had some really nice successes in the early goings with this one, and just took our eye off the ball for a round. I'll share in the blame for not reading logs as closely, and not looking at the saves. All of this isn't really a big deal...and I never was upset at anybody. I just though we needed a bit of a 'wake up call' to refocus a bit before this one started to slip away from us.

Having said all that, here's what I propose:
A soft-burn research cycle towards Astronomy, to get Caravels.
Cash-rushing/short-rushing needed infrastructure, so we can build troops later.
Put the pieces in place to start conquering saving the other continent.


I'll try to play this after work tonight, so we can have fun playing it over the weekend.

I like all three proposals.

A soft-burn research cycle towards Astronomy, to get Caravels.
Question... How do you define "soft-burn research"? I know what "hard-burn" is, but have never come across its opposite. Is it a single scientist? slider at 10%? just enough to keep income positive? or variable depending on the situation? I just want to be sure we're all on the same page. :)

@gma -- My guess is that a soft burn is research at the fastest rate possible that still allows a profit (or at least breaking even).

Agree that getting ships that won't sink ASAP is vital. At the end of this age the gap between our production capacity and the AI's is going to get really wide. Need to get a foothold there before their lands are spoiled for future (Iroquois) generations.

@Team: Sorry for the delay. The SGOTM got a little intense last night. On the "soft burn"... I plan to do most of the research with scientists... I may bump the slider, but I intend to keep enough free cash flow for some cash rushing and short rushing. I think short rushing will be especially useful in this variant...and I don't want to limit our options by spending the treasury on research.

Back to my pre-flight check:

I decide to let the workers finish thier appointed tasks...

IBT - Resistance in English Walnut ends.
Silver Maple Library>Settler
Blue Palo Verde Library>Settler

Turn 1/650 AD

Workers road a recently cleared Jungle at Shagbark. Maybe roading these tiles will be a good way to "Mark" these tiles for planting trees later on.

Date Palm is one of those towns that will probably be woefully corrupt, so I spend 76g on a Temple, and I'll finish that one... selling it off after the borders expand.

Other short rushes:
72g to a Temple short-rush of Sequoia's Market.
36g to an Archer for something cultural at White Birch.
4g to a worker at Witchazel, and swap to Library.
36g to a settler short-rush of Pignut Hickory's Harbor.
36g to an archer short rush of a library at shagbark Hickory..
16g to an archer short rush of the library at Joshua Tree.
36g to a settler short rush of Cottonwood's Library.
68g to a granary short rush of Ponderosa Pine's Market.
36g to an archer short rush of Bald Cypress' Library.
36g to an archer short rush of Valley Oak's Library.
36g to an archer short rush of Palmetto's Library.
36g to a MDI short rush of Dogwood City's Library.
96g to a Granary short rush of the Court at Sumac City. Probably the last short rush there.
24g to a worker at Common Hop Tree, and swap to settler after verifying all its citizens are Iroquois.
72g on a Granary short rush of a Library at Lodgepole Pine.

We're actually making a little uncorrupted gold at English Walnut... rush a worker and swap to Library. Swap Date Palm to Library. Swap Coconut Palm back to Aqueduct...and we could build an even more profitable fishing village there. Short rush a Mounted Warrior into it.

I hired a scientist somewhere to shave a turn off Theology. Now at 809g+162gpt, Theology in 16.

IBT - a Barb Galley sinks attacking a galley near our capitol.

Turn 2/660 AD

841g+157gpt, Theology in 15.

Do some worker stuff... a scouting Galley has met the Hittites. We are up Republic, Monotheism, and Feudalism on Mursilis. He's nearly broke, with a single shilling to his name.

Cabbage Palm founded with our Spanish Settler.

Rushes/Short Rushes this turn:
72g on a Library short rush of Sequoia's Market. We'll now get that market before the city grows.
36g on a settler short rush of the Library at White Birch.
36g on a Barracks short rush of the Harbor at Pignut Hickory.
36g on a settler short rush of the Library at Shagbark Hickory.
36g on an archer short rush of Common Hop Tree's Settler.
36g on an archer short rush of English Walnut's Library.
28g on a settler short rush of the Library at Joshua Tree.
36g on a MDI short rush of the Library at Cottonwood.
68g on a Library short rush of the Market at Ponderosa Pine.
36g on a settler short rush of Palmetto's Library
76g on a Granary towards Dogwood City's Library.

@SimpleMonkey: Sequoia will be a good place to practice my short rushing techniques. It needs a library, but it needs a market more. It's producing good gold, but we're working a lot of coastal tiles to get it. White Birch may need a harbor.

IBT - I see a red Ancient Cavalry looking like it's headed for the Hittites...might be time for a diplo check.
Tamarac finishes its Aqueduct, starts training Mounted Warriors.
Silver Birch Worker>Harbor

Turn 3/670 AD

Spend 52g on an embassy with Babylon. Sure enough, that capitol is defended by Pikes.

Rushes and Shorts:
76g to complete Pignut Hickory's Harbor.
28g on a barracks short rush of Joshua Tree's Library.
108g to complete Ponderosa Pine's Market.
36g on a MDI short rush of White Birch's Library.

Red Oak is producing 28gpt with a court due next turn.

IBT - Mursilis complains of our trespassing galley.
Douglas Fir Settler>MDI
Ponderosa Pine Market>Library
Red Oak Courthouse>MDI (Now making us 33gpt)
Pignut Hickory Harbor>Library

Turn 4/680 AD

Begin the turn with 473g, +158gpt, Theology in 13.
Sumac City's Court comes in, currently making us 27gpt.

72g on Dogwood City's Library. Time to stop defecit rushing, and leave SimpleMonkey something to work with.

IBT - Barb Galleys shuffle.
Dogwood City Library>Harbor
Sumac City Court>Mounted Warrior (now making 30gpt)
Coastal Redwood Worker>Library

Turn 5/690 AD

Start with 523g, +157gpt, Theology in 12.

Babylon now knows Engineering Do NOT buy it for GPT. We do not want to feed the AI research machine in this variant.

We might not really want Chivalry in this one if we can help it.... but we can discuss as a team.

28g on a worker to short-rush Ponderosa Pine's Library.
16g on a Pike towards Bald Cypress' Library.

Aspen looks like another good candidate for a court. Rush the Galley for 40g, swap it, hire a scientist.

Somebody put a slave worker to work clearing some marsh that looks like a decent spot for a town. I've been sending more workers up there to help out.

Spend 75g on an Embassy in Chichen Itza. Smoke-Jag has Iron. I count 7 Spears and 4 Javelin Throwers defending the city.

IBT - we get a palace expansion, and I grow the palace tall, like the trees.

Turn 6/700 AD:

Spend 52g on a settler at Blue Palo Verde.
28g on an archer short rush to the library at Ponderosa Pine.
24g on a MDI short rush of the Library at Palmetto.
44g on a Granary short rush of the Library at Joshua Tree.

Drop a settler off on that island to the west.

IBT
Blue Palo Verde Settler>Market
Hittites start Sun Tzu's.

Turn 7/710

Red Mangrove founded on the Island.
Spend 60g on a Temple in Cottonwood, swap to Library.
28g on a settler into Ponderosa Pine's Library.
16g into a pike at Valley Oak for a Library.
8g into a MDI for Aspen's Court.
Spend 40g on a Pike in Tamarac, and swap to Market.

IBT - We get a cultural expansion at...
Lodgepole Pine Library>Court

Turn 8/720

Babylon and Arabia both have Theology and Engineering. We'll get 'em both next turn.

One of the advantages to self-research is that when you do get beaten to a tech you're researching, the beakers you have invested are factored into the trade. If we didn't have the Great Library, I could buy Theology from Abu for 276g. Since we have the GLib, I swap all of the scientists to Tax collectors to take our treasury from +167 to +218gpt.

Water Tupelo founded this turn.

Spend 64g on a settler in Silver Maple, and swap to Market.
16g to a settler for Common Hop Tree's Library
56g to complete Joshua Tree's Library.
108g on a Temple Short-Rush of Ponderosa Pine's Library.
24g on a worker to Blue Palo Verde's Market.

End the turn at 295g, +228gpt.

IBT - Engineering and Theology come in.
Joshua Tree Library>Court
Douglas Fir MDI>MDI
Red Oak MDI>MDI

Staghorn Sumac completes the Heroic Epic, starts a Court

Babylonians start Sistine Chapel.

Turn 9/730 AD

At Cabbage Palm I plant trees on a game tile that was marsh last turn. Chalk one up for Mother Earth.

Spend 20g on a worker for the Library at Pignut Hickory.
12g on a MDI for Shagbark Hickory's Library.
36g on a barracks short rush of Common Hop Tree's Library.
12g on a settler for English Walnut's Library

Fiddle with the specialists, and we're at 444g, +172gpt, Education in 16. Taking the Science Slider to 20% gets us Education in 10 turns at +117gpt.

Fiddling with sumac city gets us to 8spt...a funny number. Spend 8g rushing the Mounted Warrior and swap to MDI.
24g on an Archer short rush of Blue Palo Verde's market.

Scouting galley spots what may be another landmass East of Hittites.

IBT - nada

Turn 10

Something must have grown, Education is now due in 8.

Spend 56g on the Library at Ponderosa Pine.
32g on a Temple short rush of Aspen's Court.
24g on a MDI for Silver Maple's Market
24g on a Settler for Blue Palo Verde's Market.
16g to FINISH Sequoia's market.
28g on a worker for Joshua Tree's Court.

@Next better player: Priority improvements to rush along: A Library in Sequoia, Markets in Silver Maple and Blue Palo Verde. Anywhere you can pick up a "resource" tile is also helpful... for example, Cottonwood could pick up a couple of whales with a border expansion, and Joshua tree will pick up a tobacco with border growth.

Do anything you want on the resource tiles, plant trees on roaded tiles that don't have a resource. We can use the roads to keep track of tiles we need to plant, and then Seattle's Brave Warriors can trot through the woods on their spotted ponies.

The Forbidden Palace is due in Rowen Tree next turn! :banana: Things should get even better then. We do not seem to be suffering badly from corruption at all. I leave you with 346g, +113gpt, and Education due in 8.

I reccomend we go Education>Astronomy>Navigation. Prior to Navigation we may need to sign a RoP with Arabia to use one of Abu's Sea tiles for a Mayan campaign. Maya have the Great Lighthouse... if we can take and hold that we can own the seas early.

The next few sets won't be "exciting", but they'll set the stage for endgame.

Here's >>>The Save<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_scout_740_AD.SAV)

Um ... scout, could you resend the save? It doesn't appear to be there for me.

I will study and procede with some dull turns. :lol:

@SM: Try this one (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_scout_740_AD1.SAV).

*cough, cough* Oh sorry something was stuck in my throat.

We might not really want Chivalry in this one if we can help it.... but we can discuss as a team.


just opening the discussion... do we have a prebuild going anywhere?

I concur that we don't want chivalry. We may get it from the GL. Let's bee-line to Mil Trad and let the AI research the upper tree. Then we take over from there and get caravels. Then we'll be in position to put cavs on our caravels.

@Bugs: If the team want's to bee-line for Military Tradition, then.. I don't mind. I think we may find it tough to strike the balance between gold for research and gold for upgrading units...

But if we want to go that route, let's dump the current upper-tree research now. Any Chivalry we get from the GLib ... we can build knights (slowly) and then it won't cost as much to upgrade some units to Cav.

And if somebody could test the save download I'd appreciate it.

Edit: @AK: I didn't start any pre-builds... though we've got Heroic Epic queue'd up in one of our more productive towns...that could be swapped off if there's something useful to be had.

RL issues. :( I haven't even opened the save yet. Unless I do a middle of the night insomnia set tonight or tomorrow, it doesn't look like I'm going to get to this until next weekend. :cry: Unless I post a turnlog in the next 48 or so, please skip me this go round. Or sooner if folks get impatient.

On Chivalry, I'd say that depends on when we want a beachhead across the big sky waters. If we want something soon just to establish a base, then we need caravels and knights. If we want to wait, we could go up the middle of the tech tree, get Navigation or Magnetism, then trade to MT for an invasion with more punch. Sooner might be better than later, as our shield gap is only going to get bigger. And I might suggest that we may have all done the MT beeline plenty of times before. Might be fun to vary it a little.

@SimpleMonkey: Do you want a skip or a swap? I don't mind waiting a day if you can get to it... but if you can't, there's no shame in taking a skip. (I don't mind waiting a day or two... but I'd rather not wait four...)

I think we already built the H.E. A pre-build for Leo'smight be nice though.

Why, I ask, am I being forced to make sense? :lol: Consider me a skip, darn it, and with luck we'll be killing Mayans when the game comes around to me next time.

Why, I ask, am I being forced to make sense? :lol: Consider me a skip, darn it, and with luck we'll be killing Mayans when the game comes around to me next time.With any luck? We'll be whacking somebody when it comes back to you! :devil:

OK, we have got to get into the habit of posting the roster a whole lot more frequently.

Bugsy - Up
Harriet
Whomper
Admiral
Scout
Monkey-Man

I have it.

Um, if Sir Bugs, amazingly overtasked musician, takes his ten today, I could do a swap and play after he does, tonight or tomorrow. Is this kosher with all concerned?

Um, if Sir Bugs, amazingly overtasked musician, takes his ten today, I could do a swap and play after he does, tonight or tomorrow. Is this kosher with all concerned?
It's fine with me. If I follow you, just be sure to leave a clear trail of bread crumbs for me to follow so I know where you were headed. I get lost easily. :p

@SimpleMonkey: Consider it a swap. Pick it up after Bugs, and have fun with it.

One BPT (beer per turn) to the player who lands us in the Mayan lands with enough troops to take something and keep it.

One BPT (beer per turn) to the player who lands us in the Mayan lands with enough troops to take something and keep it.
well now i'm motivated

It's fine with me. If I follow you, just be sure to leave a clear trail of bread crumbs for me to follow so I know where you were headed. I get lost easily. :p

I shall attempt to do so. Provided I know where I am myself. :rotfl:

Pre-flight – 740 AD – Why are we going for education? Oh, that’s right. It isn’t education it is caravels that we want. Bump science up two notches to get it two turns earlier. Shift a few builds to university pre-builds.

IBT – We complete the FP. Cuts two turns off education.

750=>780 Planting trees.

IBT – Education => Astronomy

790=>800 Found Lilac City

IBT – Arabs build Sun-Tzu. And I wonder what these guys are up to.
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/8666/810sneakattack2dd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I think the Mayans have just painted a bull’s eye on their chest. Astronomy is only four turns away.

810 – Nada

IBT – Sure enough the Mayans declare war on us and raze Red Mangrove. Babylon builds the Sistine Chapel.

820 => 840 Preparing a response.

IBT – Astronomy=>Invention (due in 4)

850 – Upgrade our first galley. We have a settler to rebuild Red Mangrove. There are two Mounties that can clear Red Mangrove Island before our settler gets there.

After Action – There hasn’t been a lot of changes, so I’m not sharing any screenshots. We don’t need to attack the Mayans just yet. There is no reason to panic. Let’s build up a nice fleet of caravels so we can land in force. A lot of our science buildings will be completing soon which will boost our research considerably. We’ll keep heading towards mil tradition and kick their butts from here to China.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01,_850_AD.SAV

Thank you, Sir Bugs! :hatsoff: Looks like I'll get a workout at shortrushing, building infra and military, and leaving a very exciting world for gramH. Probably more infra than military at this point, as the increased research and cash is what's going to make this work, I think.

Any thoughts on signing on any of the Maya's neighbors in our environmental crusade? At this point we probably have enough of a handle on ww what we could go all 20 turns of an MA. Might be kind of entertaining to keep him busy at home.

Also, it appears that I'll need Sir Bugsy to repost the save. It's not showing up on my end. :(

Nice, nice Bugs. Do the Mayans not understand the program?

I'm inclined to let the Mayans battle it out with the Arabs before they get their UU but wait a few turns before we land a SOD. This way we let the Arabs act as our "bikini babe trick" (tm Handy) :crazyeye:
by drawing the Mayans to the Arab borders.
Monkey does this work?

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01,_850_AD.SAV)

Since the Arabs will have to get a navy together in order to land a unit or two, we might want to draw the Arabs in now. That way they'll have a landing in 20 turns or so.

Monkey Man I would plan on setting up Harriet with a nice SOD to land over in Mayan lands. Don't worry about Scout's beer challenge. You set up Grandma and I'll supply the beer.

Still waiting for the repost of the save, hopefully as an attachment. (For some reason saves at part of the text sometimes don't come through for me.)

Still waiting for the repost of the save, hopefully as an attachment. (For some reason saves at part of the text sometimes don't come through for me.)
You can't pick up either Bugs' save or Whomp's repost? Wow! I'll give it a try as an attachment. :hmm:

Worked great, gram! Looking at the save now. Shall report back today.

Say no to global warming!

Let's see if I can manage a less wordy turnlong than I usually perpetrate. Heh.

Preturn (850AD) Nothing wrong here. Thanks, Bugs!

Probably not worthwhile pulling the Arabs or Babylon into our fight with Maya Dude. Maya Dude is all by his lonesome on a modest island south of the other landmass. By the time the other guys landed anybody in a boat on Mayan shores, it wouldn't be worthwhile.

I note a few more things about Mayaland and the other side in general. One: it's not gonna be easy to land and hurt these guys right away. I see at least two sources of iron and two horses in his territory. We may be able to establish a beachhead here, on the iron hill outside of Bonampak.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Bonampak.jpg

But that's a few turns away yet. Two: There are no forests left in Mayaland at all that I can see. None. This environmental crime must be corrected and the perpetrators brought to justice.

Also, this looks like one of those games where Babylon has gotten an upper hand. They're up on us tech-wise at least by Invention, though we have Education and they don't. Good thing they like us so much.

One last thought -- there's an awefully big patch of black in the northern seas above our continent. Possible that there's some unclaimed territory up there? I'll see if I can't get our exploring galley to find out.

58g in the bank and 100gpt. Invention in 4. Nice.

Hit Enter.

IBT Absolutely nothing.

Turn 1 (860AD) Land two elite mounties on rockpile island. Little blue swordsman there to say hello. Plant some more trees. Cash rush a library in Sequoia and a marketplace in Silver Maple. Douglas Fir might be a nice place for Cops after it finishes its uni.

IBT Blue sword guy attacks one of our elite mounties. And kills him. :( (0-1)

Turn 2 (870AD) Remove the blue sword with no pain. (1-1) And we get this.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/tree_avenger.jpg

Other than that, it's terraforming. And a bit of short-rushing. Thanks again for enlightening me on this one, scout!

IBT More nuthin.

Turn 3 (880AD) Short-rush. Plant trees. Nothing from Blue Boy yet.

IBT The same.

Turn 4 (890AD) And more of the same. We have a number of caravels headed towards our western launching site. Pike builds are probably going to turn into muskets, provided we see Gunpowder in 4 turn. (Oh yeah, Invention came in and I dialed up Gunpowder at max. Still turning a +55gpt profit.)

IBT Maya Dude would like to have a word. Peace for peace, even up? We send the envoy home. In pieces.

Turn 5 (900AD) Spend money. Plant trees.

IBT A blue galley appears. At last. This is soooo scary.

Turn 6 (910AD) Build Peach Palm on the rockpile we have now reclaimed. Shift the mountie over onto the free tile so that Maya Dude has to look elsewhere for a landing site.

IBT Apparently our people love our solar-powered ways so much that they add another wing to the palace.

Turn 7 (920AD) Build and spend and plant.

IBT Blue Boy is still coasting our shores, looking for a beach house to rent. We get another palace expansion. :) Lose a galley and caravel that I thought were in sea, not ocean. :(

Turn 8 (930AD) Gunpowder comes in. No saltpeter hooked up at the moment, but there's one salty mountain outside of Silver Maple. A worker team is off to lay in a road with a quickness. Chemistry due in 6 at +101gpt. We could pull it in faster, but we need the cash.

We could trade in Astronomy to Babylon for Chivalry, but we're only three techs away from cavalry. I'm not sure it would be worth it.

IBT Two more blue galley sail in out of the fog. Even scarier.

Turn 9 (940AD) I lay off the spending for one turn. Well, not really. Start sending some workers back to our core, since we haven't done much planting and such there for about 2000 years.

IBT Not much. Maya galleys haven't landed anywhere yet.

Turn 10 (950AD) Same as above.

All our forces are heading west for the big party, except for a few folks on guard duty here and there. I suspect that Maya Dude is going to sail around our shores until he thinks he finds a weak spot. No war weariness yet. Most of my military builds have been pikes and mounties. If someone thinks that medinf are a better investment, please feel free to switch the ones that haven't finished. Plenty of infra built up as well, mostly unis and libraries, many of them short rushed. We could switch Douglas Fir to Cops, but I don't know if we're shield-rich enough to pull it off. Our saltpeter road should come in next turn, and we might even be able to afford upgrading some pikes. Our leader is in Sequioa, awaiting orders. If there are any builds going on that look like they're going to take forever (and they seem worthwhile, like the harbor in Peach Palm), it's because I've been short-rushing it turn by turn and switching it back to the intended build each time. Oh yeah, and if someone wants to spit out a settler, there's a dandy spot next to an unused fish and wheat between Bald Cypress and Rowen Tree. Probably off in the former Spanish and English countryside. Gold's a little low, so the next better player may want to make appropriate adjustments. Hope that's enough breadcrumbs for ya, gram! :) Let the games begin!

Here's the >>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH_Monkey_950AD.SAV). Hope that this upload works better for you all than it does for me.

Peace out! Save the planet!

Hope that's enough breadcrumbs for ya, gram! Ok, got it (kinda). ;)

I'm not much of a warmonger, and in solo games I've only done inter-continental invasions when I've been an entire age ahead of the AI...like bombers, transports, airfields and 3 or 4 armies against an AI using maybe longbows...and Scout had to teach me how to do that. I have absolutely no idea if we're prepared to go and what to do when we get there. The times I've done it earlier in SG's are when (Scout usually playing just before me), my turnsets start with being left on a beachhead somewhere and taking it from there. In short, I'm kinda lost here. It's me who's unprepared...not SimpleMonkey's set-up.

I did a bit of pre-turn analysis of our logistics and wrote some thoughts on what I'd do if it were my personal game. Quite frankly, I'd wait at least another 10 turns and take the kitchen sink along, but for what it's worth, here's a spreadsheet showing what I see and my ideas for a few changes. I could defininately use some input.

I won't likely play until tomorrow night. I've been playing a personal game for the past 30 hours straight through, and I'm even foggier than usual. :mischief:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/SHWH_Logistics_950ad.JPG

An additional question... I noticed we're planting trees on the gems. Since they are a resource, couldn't we mine or irrigate them instead? I'm still not clear on what's allowed. :crazyeye:

What did we do with the leader? (Edit I see he is unused) Let's make an army. Make sure we don't put any more than two units into it.

Let's be careful with our navy and kep it in safe waters. Harriet, if we have a force of two armies, a few pikes, four trebs, and three to six MDI or mounties, (that's 5-6 caravels full) we should be able to make a very successful landing.

Edit - Don't build any regular pikes or mounties!!! Build a barracks there first. Regular units are a waste of shields unless you are in extremis.

Edit2 - Leave the cat over on Pignut. It prevents an amphibious landing.