Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170295) for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory. All victory conditions are still enabled though, with exception of Space Race, so you have to avoid getting another type of victory (and of course prevent the AIs from winning).

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12.

Here's the start position.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/SGOTM01_start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Hapshepsut of Egypt
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Mystery
Game Speed - Epic

Permanent Alliances are turned on (can form permanent alliances after either communism or fascism is researched)
Space race is disabled.
Egypt is locked into war with Huayna Capac of the Incas.
Egypt is locked into peace with an unknown civilization.

The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439)

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization4 v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award - the Gold Laurels.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by either domination or diplomacy.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Good luck to your team, and remember rule #1: Enjoy your game :D

Checking in. I would like to welcome the awesome team of Queen's men, and a special welcome to our queen pholkheroine.

I expect to see 15 posts of spam under this over the next day, the majority of which will be by rex tyranus.

Who wants to be team captain?

[edit]
Also, already getting ahead of myself, seems like an obvious move first turn of this game is to settle 1 south to grab the cows :).

Reporting for duty too ! Seems this will be a great one since I've always liked Hatty (and no, I don't think she's hot !). Actually I've played some SP games with Egypt - Spi/Cre is a nice trait combo.

As for the start:

I think you're right Qwack. The Cows will be handy because of the health bonus - with all those flood plains around health issues will be a pain from turn 1 on. Looks like Thebes will get lots of Cottages and turn into a Commerce Powerhouse. It has some production with those hills too - a nice city site !

·Imhotep·

Checking in (steadfastly refusing to preface with: "Queen P-heroine . . .").

Grabbing the cows is a no-brainer for now. Perhaps a warrior move E to the hill, but that's about it.

An early question, with these flood plains, early religion?? the commerce from the plains will hlep us to at least grab hindu. I guess this question is part and parcel of the victory win we'd like. With Space turned off, we dont' really have to prevent too much in the way of AI victory, though. I'm all for a combo-win ~ using our large pop percentage to secure our victory w/one other ally ~ or just go backdoor. However, I think, for this game, all of our actions should be directed towards this end. I don't need to win the competition, but would like to use this oppurtunity to practice my "focused" approach to the game and try to have all of our tactical moves support our over-arching strat.

As for captain, do we need an official one??

For roster, why not use sign-up order??
Qwack
Imhotep/Timon
Pholk
et cetera

spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam. Lovely Spam...wonderful spam!

can't edit for some reason...

Qwack, since you were already selected as Spokesmen, I nominate you! :D

Wait, Qwack is our spokesduck? Sweet, less effort for me :p

:drool: Reporting for duty. :drool:

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/5946/merzm11ta.jpg

We should discuss our build and tech order then.

My 2 cents:


I would go Warrior first. We are locked into war with HC and don't know yet how far away he is and whether his roaming units could reach us or not. I guess the Incas start with a Warrior (can't confirm it now) so that should be worth a consideration. If the Incas start with a Scout that would give us some spare turns, but in any case Warrior first is safest. I'd then go Worker => Warrior => Settler => Worker.

We could try to grab a religion (Hinduism most likely), but do not forget that HC has Mysticism as starting tech. He will likely grab Buddhism, and there may be other Spirituial Civs on board. Anyway, even on Monarch I've been able to grab Hinduism or at least Judaism with a Spiritual Civ like Egypt. But according to our starting position I see health being a bigger problem than happiness, so I would vote for going Mining => BW => Animal Husbandry => Pottery and abandon an early religion. We need especially to know where those horses are - the strength 5 War Chariot is not only a great explorer and fog buster,what's more, it can easily deal with Barbs and other stuff. The Oracle - CoL - Slingshot maybe worth a shot later on.


·Imhotep·

Talamane just bought my vote for leader. :drool:

@Timon: Agree on building a warrior first. It'd be awefully embarrasing to lose on turn 6 because our warrior was out exploring while we were at war. After that, let's see where we are. With early chopping nerfed, I've not been building early workers unless I had a resource to hook up. We've got cows and lord knows we have flood plains to cottage, but let's take that when we get there.

Not sure about the tech path...thinking...I'll get back on that one.

I thought about the tech path once more. I think that Animal Husbandry is of high priority - not only for locating the horses but for hooking up the cows ASAP. Therefore we'll need a worker sooner or later. As we have the Wheel as starting tech already we should not wait too long to get those cows online. The health bonus will be decisive for growing Thebes beyond size 4 or 5.

·Imhotep·

Hatshepsut of Egypt.

Spiritual: No anarchy; dbl prod: Temple.
Creative: +2 culture per city; dbl prod: Coliseum, Theater.

Coliseum: 120h; req’s Construction; +1 Happy, +1 Happy per 20% culture rate.
Temple: 80h; req’s Priesthood, (religion); +1 culture, +1 Happy, can turn 1 citizen into Priest.
Theatre: 50h; req’s Drama; +3 culture, +1 Happy per 10% culture rate, can turn 2 citizens into artists, +1 Happy from Dye; req’d to build Globe Theatre

War Chariot: Str: 5; Mvt: 2; 25h, req’s The Wheel, Horse, replaces Chariot;
Immune to First Strikes; Doesn't receive defensive bonuses; Can withdraw from combat (20% chance)

Starting techs:
Agriculture
The Wheel

I think AH and warrior first is a good order for now. On the way into work, sitting in traffic, I had an idea for some grand strategy (if you can’t tell, I’m a big-picture, idea man, not so concerned about details ). I’m thinking that we should eliminate a nearby enemy w/our war chariots. At 25h, we could whip for 2 (I hope) on the first turn b/c of the penalty, and thereby nab 60h’s for the city. We could have 3 WC’s in about 4 or 5 turns, depending on the number of hammers we can work at the city. To finish up the game, I’m thinking conquer all of the Incan lands to head for the dom. limit and perhaps finish up the victory w/an alliance declared w/our peace-frog friend. Thoughts from ya’ll?? Of course, this is preliminary strategy, but could serve as a barebones skeleton to work up from ~

AH and Warrior sounds good for me. I don't think we need to plan beyond that yet. Initial exploration will bring new needs to the table. Let's trust each other to make decent decisions.

Moving on, we need a roster. I recommend a roster that is in no way like ROTQM. Not that we have a bad roster, it's just that I don't want to get into a cycle where one or more players is always up in both at the same time.

I'm not one for the importance of balancing one player's attributes with another and trying to fix a roster so that successive players play into each other's traits. So I don't care about order much.

So far we have Qwack, Timon of Athens, Pholk, Talamane, and myself checked-in. (Is Paul still inactive or just not able to be bothered with this post yet?)

Our current ROTQM order is:

Pholk => Omni =>Timon => Quack => Rex =>Talamane

Perhaps we might go

Pholk => Qwack => Talamane => Timmy => Rex => Paul?

I have no idea how that works with our two (ugh!) non-Americans in terms of strategy discussions. (Is Qwack American?) Perhaps some input from them?

Moving on, we need a leader and a scribe. I nominate Queen Pholkenstein as our leader. Anyone care to second? Do we have any other nominations?

And finally, is anyone interested in the scribe duties?

you would actually think that if we kept the roster the same, just started at a different place, we'd avoid someone being up on both at once.

HOwever, we should also keep in mind that we'll hopefully be done w/the other game shortly, esp at 10 turns.

and what are the duties ofhte scribe??

and what are the duties ofhte scribe??

The scribe reports to our progress to the other groups. Very general-type stuff. Nothing intricate, IIRC.

i nominate you for scribe :D

The scribe reports to our progress to the other groups. Very general-type stuff. Nothing intricate, IIRC.

Hey guys back. Really? Is this an official position we need for the SGOTM. Because I thought there should be no spoilers and nobody can read eachothers threads and stuff like that.

Anyways, yes we need an official captain. :cry: . Basically what he/she(pholkherione) does is decide on the roster, skips people, etc etc. Basic stuff.

I think AH first is excellent, for those war horses and hooking up them cows.

Anyways, I dont think hooking up the cows for the health bonus is of utmost importance, since the 3 food flood plains will cancel out the health penalty. But we should build a pasture for the strong tile ASAP.

As far as roster goes, Rex, I was behind pholk for a while in ROTQM until I needed a skip and omni needed a skip. If anyoen has preferences as far as where they want to play, post now. The only place this will matter really is at the start of the game.

As far as victory goes, lets not forget that our goal here is to finish as soon as possible. Lets go for that Laurel or whatever the crap the prize is called :lol: . Backdoor domination/diplo are probably the best for early victories, conquest is also possible if all opponents are on the same island. I think we should start thinking/discussing about victory condition after the first or second turnsets.

Also, it snot necesary for warrior first to save us from Huayana, remember in ROTQM, Mao didnt attack us even though we were at war for a while. I think AI doesnt attack for a little while at the start even if we are at war.

But I would have gone warrior first anyways, to get growth before we build our first worker ;). Ill post a more detailed possible starting strategy once our save file is posted. For now im being too lazy. And yes Pholkero, im just like you, I love making strategies and possible tech path's and all that. :goodjob:


I have no idea how that works with our two (ugh!) non-Americans in terms of strategy discussions. (Is Qwack American?) Perhaps some input from them?

Yes im American :).

Really? Is this an official position we need for the SGOTM. Because I thought there should be no spoilers and nobody can read eachothers threads and stuff like that.

Take a look at the reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439) end of the first post.

Two Spoiler threads are opened at appropriate times during the game. The First spoiler thread is limited to discussion of events occuring in a specific period only, and a nominated scribe from each team is required to post a synopsis of the teams game up to, but not beyond the scope of the spoiler. A further spoiler thread, but with different restrictions on access will be posted at a later date, where the rest of the game can be discussed. The specific conditions for reading and posting in a spoiler will be included in the first post of a spoiler, and also in the Maintenance Thread.

i nominate you for scribe :D

You do realize that opens up the very real possibility for us getting DQ'd for spamming the spoiler thread, right?

The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Hmm, that sounds like no iron near the capital.

Okay, i guess it seems like i've been seconded as capt'n...whatever..it's fine w/me if it's fine w/others, but then I don't want to be the scribe. I really DO nominate you Rex.

Let's just reverse our roster, Talamane, can you go first? and i'll go last.

Twenty turns or ten? We have plenty time to decide this, the start wont be available until May 12, which is Friday.

I would actually like to go second if everyone is OK with that. Start of games is my favourite part. But secretly I just want to be the one who founds the second city :mischief:

30/20/10/10/10/10 In terms of number of turns seems fine according to me.

I'd like to take things a little more flexible. You know that I can't play on weekends most of the time but in most cases can play quick during the week. So I would suggest putting me on 3rd or 4th seed as the SGOTM starts on a Friday. I guess there will be some swaps but maybe we could keep them as low as possible.

As for input I'm mostly able to give my opinion in the earlier hours of the day since evening in Germany is morning in the US. I guess I'll be able to contribute as well as in RotQM. Anyway, if I'm not available feel free to go on your own - I'm not such a great player that my opinion should be necessarily heard all the time.

·Imhotep·

How this:

Talamane >> 30 turns
Quack >> 20t
Rex >> 15t
Imhotep >> 15t
Omni >> 10t
Pholk >> 10t

I upped the middle turns to 15 just so that we can get through the first 100 turns on the first rotation, if that's okay w/everyone.

I think the amt of debate/discussion from Queen is pretty good (esp for Civ4 SGs ;) ) of course, we'll need some more, but a)we're all good players (yes, even YOU, Imho. imho) and b)it'll only be 10 turns so barring any wrongful declarations or something, nothing can be irrevocably dmg'ed gamewise.

However, if you do f- up, the group gets your thumbs, agreed?? (I call middle knuckle joint on the right thumb :lol: )

To be clear. I'm not in this for the Laurel. (Maybe the wooden spoon...?) I'm in this to be entertained and to be entertaining. I'll still play my best, but I really won't get wound up when someone (Pholk) :smoke:s up the game.

Hee hee. In My Humble OpinionTEP. Good one, Pholk.

On that vein, Timmy. I can't say I agree with your screen name swap. Timon of Athens presented character and class. It said: "this guy's from Germany and knows more about Shakespeare that you do. He must be smart."

Imhotep is base. Everyone knows Imhotep, so it brings nothing unique to the table.

But, then again, I misspelled my name, so you're light-years ahead of me. Just my Humble OpinionTEP.

To be clear. I'm not in this for the Laurel. (Maybe the wooden spoon...?) I'm in this to be entertained and to be entertaining. I'll still play my best, but I really won't get wound up when someone (Pholk) :smoke:s up the game.

Me neither. Having fun is the way !

Hee hee. In My Humble OpinionTEP. Good one, Pholk.

At least you found something you like concerning my new screen name ;) :D . Anyway, we have been mocking so much at our Queen Pholkheroine that some revenge is permitted. :)

On that vein, Timmy. I can't say I agree with your screen name swap. Timon of Athens presented character and class. It said: "this guy's from Germany and knows more about Shakespeare that you do. He must be smart."

I'm not so sure about that. Let's rather say that the standard US citizen knows of Timon of Athens that he actually must have come from Athens. But would anyone recognize him as one of the best characters that ever came to the mind of Shakespeare ? I doubt so. Character and class you say ? Hm, you almost make me rethink me decision. It sounds good to be connected to such values.

Imhotep is base. Everyone knows Imhotep, so it brings nothing unique to the table.

You maybe right with the possible exception of all the guys who are not Egyptologists or haven't seen the movies. Anyway, being base is no bad thing. At least the danger of being held for a shmock is not as great as before. I'm unique in every way, but must people know about this at first glance ? :D ;) The change in truth was inspired from the deep admiration I have for the actual Imhotep. He was a great mind and - although being a high caste guy - did much for the people. And of course I hope to have better luck in playing Civ IV too, because changing my name to Imhotep at SP games served wonders for my combat and wonder luck :) .

But, then again, I misspelled my name, so you're light-years ahead of me. Just my Humble OpinionTEP.

Well, at least you got one more word to fumble with now. Congratulations. ;)

Imhotep aka Timon of Athens

Talamane >> 30 turns
Quack >> 20t
Rex >> 15t
Imhotep >> 15t
Omni >> 10t
Pholk >> 10t

This sounds good unless anyone has objections?

So far, seems as if we have pholkhero as captain and Rex as scribe, once again, unless anyone has any objections, this is how we will go. Ill let the SGOTM admins know once we have verified this.

Verified. Someone needs to PM Paul. That's the cap'n's job, right?

Guys, I posted this in the sign-up thread. I hope no one minds my speaking for the group, but I didn't want Alan putting some yahoo in this team that we don't like.

@Alan:

omni_paul of the Queens Men recently had a death in the family and has been sparcely in touch with us. If it's all the same to you, we'd rather wait for his return than have a replacement.

Thanks,
The Queen's Men

sorry, i should've posted here yesterday. I PM'ed paul, but it's good someone spoke up for the group for i didn't know they would assign you folks.

I'm all for giving paul as much time/space as he needs and fold him back in when he's able to play again. I guess if it comes to it later they might HAVE to assign us another player, but we'll cross taht bridge when we come to it, so to speak.

2nd: I want to try to overcome this Civ4 SGs are no good idea that is floating around the board lately and try to come up with a good, cohesive strategy that we all, in our turns, follow, pause for bigger decisions, AND have good write-ups. I might have been the only one to use it alot, but i'm done w/autologger for reports, and I'd like as all to try and write good ones...if we have the time, of course...thoughts??

3rd ~ so, we're agreed on AH and a warrior (i think we're agreed), but what next? Tally ~ any ideas before you grab it...is it tomorrow already??

Hmmm. Rethinking AH. What about religion? Flood plains scream commerce. If we can get Budhims of Hinduism before we found a second city, Thebes can be a monster commercially when we eventually put wall street, a bank, a market, and a grocier in it.

@rex:

Well done fella !

@pholky:

I guess there is a consensus about Warrior first and going straight for AH. I think we should delay any further decisions until we know the lay of the land. If we can grab horses early and have some decent production it might be fun to try a War Chariot rush. Never did that before but some SGs showed good results on that one.

·Imhotep·

On the way into work, sitting in traffic, I had an idea for some grand strategy (if you can’t tell, I’m a big-picture, idea man, not so concerned about details ). I’m thinking that we should eliminate a nearby enemy w/our war chariots. At 25h, we could whip for 2 (I hope) on the first turn b/c of the penalty, and thereby nab 60h’s for the city. We could have 3 WC’s in about 4 or 5 turns, depending on the number of hammers we can work at the city. To finish up the game, I’m thinking conquer all of the Incan lands to head for the dom. limit and perhaps finish up the victory w/an alliance declared w/our peace-frog friend. Thoughts from ya’ll?? Of course, this is preliminary strategy, but could serve as a barebones skeleton to work up from ~I'm all for WarCharRush to eliminate an early neighbor (as you can see from the above ;) )

If we go for a religion, i think we should try and get CoL or something. wasting commerce early on, i think, might not pan out. Figure, we already have 1 friend, no matter what, so early religion might not be that important ~ besides, what if we buds w/gandhi or izzy??

With civ's without mysticism, I generally prefer to go for Confucionism or Daoism. And especially with our start, civil service slingshot is a major possibility. If we want to do CS slingshot, we should plan is carefully before starting ;).

The Chariot Rush worked out good in this SG: SC-03 Oscillating War for Dummies (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165789)

good read. The effect was blunted by the long distances, but if we can do it early enough, 5-6 WC's (not water closets) should be enough to take a nearby enemy. If we pursue military, will our "Peaced" friend always trade with us? can we use him for more normal tech paths??

edit: farm a few FPs, pasture those cows and mine those hills and we'll have a nicely growing, nice prod city where we can make liberal use of the whip i think.

The Save File for the start on SGOTM is up on this site (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) ! Let's get rolling !

Ill post my possible starting strategy and analysis once I get back home this afternoon in around 8 hours. You dont have to wait though Talamene if you dont want to :).

Guys. Just wanted to make certain we all noticed the trash-talking thread. We have our honor to uphold!

Edit: Good job Imhotimo. I think we're holding our own over there. We need Pholk for reinforcements if we're to go on the offensive.

Edit2: I think I just got my wrist slapped over there, so no offensive (yet).

Guys, I'm leaving now over the weekend. I trust in you that you will pull off nothing less than a brilliant start. I'll be back on Sunday.

·Imhotep·

Well, I think CS slingshot is a strong move on this map(starting spot). But it will be entirely dependant on whether we have horses nearby. If we dont have horses, we will have to go Bronze Working soon and so CS slingshot would be almost impossible to pull off. Heres a possible start for CS slingshot.

Animal Husbandry
Mining (This can be switched with pottery)
Pottery (Can be switched to go before Mining)
Writing
Mysticism
Polytheism or Meditation
Preisthood
Code Of laws

If you guys find this a bit too risky, we can leave out pottery, but we need mining.

Obviously will have to time thte code of laws and oracle accordingly. So this is dependant on horses near our capital (our second city will pull in horses), Scout out nearby, and with Animal Husbandry we will find out whether we have horses or not. Then we can decide the tech path to follow, if we dont have them, we probably have to go down the bottom path for BW. If we do have them, this strategy can be very powerful and I would suggest going down it.

Just incase anyone doesnt know, basically we are trying to grab Civil Service with Oracle(and pick up confucionism on the way), this will allow us to run Beaurucracy at an extremely early date. This is useful to make supercities out of strong capital's, which I believe we have right now. I can smell this capital producing upwards of 600 beakers at the end of game with beauracracy.

We can easily settle 3 cities before oracle is done if we manage correctly. I hope we have horses nearby :).

Well, I think CS slingshot is a strong move on this map(starting spot). But it will be entirely dependant on whether we have horses nearby. If we dont have horses, we will have to go Bronze Working soon and so CS slingshot would be almost impossible to pull off. Heres a possible start for CS slingshot.

Animal Husbandry
Mining (This can be switched with pottery)
Pottery (Can be switched to go before Mining)
Writing
Mysticism
Polytheism or Meditation
Preisthood
Code Of laws

If you guys find this a bit too risky, we can leave out pottery, but we need mining.

Obviously will have to time thte code of laws and oracle accordingly. So this is dependant on horses near our capital (our second city will pull in horses), Scout out nearby, and with Animal Husbandry we will find out whether we have horses or not. Then we can decide the tech path to follow, if we dont have them, we probably have to go down the bottom path for BW. If we do have them, this strategy can be very powerful and I would suggest going down it.

Just incase anyone doesnt know, basically we are trying to grab Civil Service with Oracle(and pick up confucionism on the way), this will allow us to run Beaurucracy at an extremely early date. This is useful to make supercities out of strong capital's, which I believe we have right now. I can smell this capital producing upwards of 600 beakers at the end of game with beauracracy.

We can easily settle 3 cities before oracle is done if we manage correctly. I hope we have horses nearby :).
This would also seem to depend on a nearby marble resource, i think, since Egypt is not industrious. Also, i'm wondering if this would interfere, complement or be indifferent to an early WC rush.

We also need Tally to actually play some turns too ~

It would interfere with the WC rush (as Qwack pointed out) as any proper "rush" involves chopping to make units. Chopping requires BW, and BW is an extra 10-12 turns of research.

I'm with Qwack's plan unless AH reveals horses next to capital. If so, we abandon the slingshot, research mining=>BW immediately, and rush war chariots.

Pholk, your point about marble is a big issue. Since we want to time the slingshot to arrive just after COL, and we can't build it until Priesthood (the tech immediately before COL, we either need a production powerhouse or marble.

I was thinking of using the whip since we'll get more hammers that way for the rush (we could gegt 60 if we whip for 2 pop, paying the penalty for rushing on the first turn), but either way, you are right, it is BW dependent.

I agree...let's see what AH brings us, but either way it should be AH>Mining first. Also, we @ least 3 visible hills, we'll have a good bit of production, i think ~ there may be more hiding, too.

This would also seem to depend on a nearby marble resource, i think, since Egypt is not industrious. Also, i'm wondering if this would interfere, complement or be indifferent to an early WC rush.

If you crunch the numbers, and do some calculations, marble's effect on building oracle is pretty minimal. And plus, in this situation it isnt the Production we need, its the research. When we research preisthood and start oracle right away, its very easy to produce it in 15 turns, but code of laws will probably take more than 15 turns, we need CoL before Oracle.

Anywyas as far as marble, especially if it isnt in your capital, the gain is very minimal except for future wonders. First you waste 8 turns researching masonry, than another 5-6 turns hooking up the marble, probably 2-3 more turns building roads. Thats alot of turns, and oracle only gets 75 extra hammers from it :mischief:

Whipping is the second option, but with the capital we have here Beauracracy will be very strong. If we dont have horses nearby, I would suggest going down the BW path immediately, starting some farms in our capital, and making good use of that whip :goodjob:

Btw, I kinda overstated below. We will actually be able to settle only 2 cities + capital for a total of 3 if we manage correctly. Not 3 for a total of 4. :crazyeye:

oh yeah, Pholkhero, we cant whip 2 pop with chariots since they only cost 25 hammers. :(. My personal preferance is farms + whipping axeman if we dont have horses, CS slingshot if we have horses.

Has anyone here early rushed a war since the patch? With chopping nerfed, how will that affect us? Granted, the whip will play a good role, but you can only get so far with a whip.

Check the first few pages of the Acid_01 report in my signature. True power of the whip ;).

@ Qwack:the penalty for first turn whipping is the key; I know it's only 25h, but, w/the penalty, i believe they will cost 2 pop, but i will need to dbl check it.

@ Rex: w/the right population resouces, (e.g., 2 food resources or 3 flood plains), you can get 60 hammers every 10/15 turns (what speed is this?) pretty regularly.

I have the save and have caught up on the thread. Damn internet went on the fritz last nite.

I noticed on the curve that is displayed on the web page that some SGs just played ten turns (one did 30), and was wondering since we are in heavy discussion about this, whether or not we should do the same. I post a 10-turn save, and we talk it to death?

I do feel that the first 30 turns are critical. What i have found on monarch level is that it is very difficult to snag early wonders, particularly 'mids and oracle. Plan B needs to be thought out if we DONT get CS via the oracle.

KK started an SG (Fractal Frenzy) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169507), trying to duplicate the SGOTM game.

Qwack:the penalty for first turn whipping is the key; I know it's only 25h, but, w/the penalty, i believe they will cost 2 pop, but i will need to dbl check it.

Yea but if we whip with the penalty, 2 pop will be worth 30 hammers, if we whip without the penalty, 1 pop = 30 hammers.

Rex: w/the right population resouces, (e.g., 2 food resources or 3 flood plains), you can get 60 hammers every 10/15 turns (what speed is this?) pretty regularly.

Agreed, even more if we have 1 or 2 happiness resources.

OK. Here is the save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC3100_01.Civ4SavedGame)

Here is the log it generated:

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Thebes has been founded.

Turn 16, 3520 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!

Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs Queens Men's Warrior (2.90)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 17, 3490 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Queens Men's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Turn 21, 3370 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Queens Men's Warrior (2.40)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Combat Odds: 27.0%
Turn 21, 3370 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 21, 3370 BC: Barbarian's Lion has defeated Queens Men's Warrior!

Turn 25, 3250 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Here are my notes:

I follow our plan, moved the settler one tile south towards the cows. AH, then mining.

I built a warrior, and started on a worker. Lo and behold, right as i got AH, my scouting warrior found this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/DerBeHorses.jpg
Lose the new warrior to a lion. :( That really hurt. That has put an end to scouting until the worker is done. Mining is done, and we are started on pottery, with 9 turns to go.

The lay of the land:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/QM_3100BC.jpg

Follow up.

As you can see, we have horses in a good spot, there are cows galore, but no happy. We have stone. :)

I thought i had done a so-so start, but with our team's good advice, and even with the loss of a warrior, we are abreast of the best (so far), and ahead in points compared to most of the teams.

I dont think thats a so-so start. You pretty much went out perfectly other than the warrior loss, but that wasnt your fault.

Horses in a perfect spot(That looks like a awesome production city), I just want confirmation from the team here, I am going to put us in position for the CS slingshot if everyone agrees. This is seriously going to be a strong 1-2 punch in terms of our capital and second city. Those are 2 good sites. Just noticed the mountain blockage towards the east, interesting. I have a feeling Huayana is on the other side of that ;).

Would have preferred marble instead of stone (For Great library), but will take it.

Oh crap, just noticed its my turn in the PH's game also. :mischief: Ill have both of these games played by tommorow.

I dont think thats a so-so start. You pretty much went out perfectly other than the warrior loss, but that wasnt your fault.

Horses in a perfect spot(That looks like a awesome production city), I just want confirmation from the team here, I am going to put us in position for the CS slingshot if everyone agrees. This is seriously going to be a strong 1-2 punch in terms of our capital and second city. Those are 2 good sites. Just noticed the mountain blockage towards the east, interesting. I have a feeling Huayana is on the other side of that ;).

Would have preferred marble instead of stone (For Great library), but will take it.

Oh crap, just noticed its my turn in the PH's game also. :mischief: Ill have both of these games played by tommorow.
Yes, certainly not so-so. Good turns Tallymand (that sounds very english)!

That city north reminds me of a plains start :lol: settle on that tundra, yes? I htink we should go w/CS but do agree we need plan b.

Oh, and Qwack, i've been tryin gto get you to play those turns for two days!! :lol:

quick map ~

red and yellow should be cities 2 and 3 i think.

Unforeseen I'm home one day earlier for a short visit and can sneak in my two cents. This spot with the horses and the two cows will make a production powerhouse. Once we mine the hills and get them to be worked this city will be awesome. pholkherina's dotmap looks good on first glance, the spot to settle next is definitely the tundra tile, sparing us the better tiles. Let's try the CS slingshot - a plan B is quite difficult to develop right now. See, there is no trace of another Civ until now. Might very well be that we are sitting on a blocked off peninsula of a greater continent to the East. What good is a Chariot rush if you have no opponent ? I'm glad we have those horses though, they will deal with any incomers that might appear. Good start, Talamane ! Go for Gold (= CS) !

·Imhotep·

Turns Completed, heres the save:
SaveGame (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC2500_01.Civ4SavedGame)

I checked the surroundings, and a bit of a modification to Pholkhero's dotmap ;) . I would personally settle 1 tile South-East of where Pholkhero's reddot is. The reasoning is that if we settle on Tundra, we get the tundra in the north anyways. If we settle 1-SE, we move away from useless coastal tiles for a production city, we also get 3 floodplains and 1 extra plains hill. More stuff for a good production city. Another benefit is we get less distance maintenance if we settle there. Ofcourse theres a bit of a problem also, the 3 overlap with capital, but overlap IMO is not as bad as people think. 3 overlap is nothing really, instead of 20 pop at the end, we will have 17. And usually we wont get up to 20 until the very very end, when it wont even make a difference.

I think Yellow dot should be our third city, and red dot 1 south-east second city for horses.

Anyhow, now to the report :rolleyes: .

Buddhism FIADL 3100 BC, Huayana is the one who founded it.
Hindiusm FIADL right after in 3010 BC. Good thing we didnt go for religion :lol: .

We also meet her in 2980 BC. There is a civ on our right side, but probably really far away.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9457/civ4screenshot00026hk.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00026hk.jpg)

Pottery comes in 2830, I start research on writing, following our plan of CS slingshot. Micromanage our capital to grow it to size 4 and then start a settler.

Aw crap...
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/4518/civ4screenshot00065uo.th.jpg (http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00065uo.jpg)

BUT I WIN at 35% odds. :cool: I suppose my luck is going to change here in this game, good stuff.. good stuff.

So anyways, we now have 3 warriors, capital is size 4, and ive started the first settler in capital which is due in 14 turns. I started building a cottage on the floodplains for 2 reasons, first theres nothing else which is useful ATM, farm would be too late to effect the settler much, and we need as much research as we can get for the CS slingshot right now.

My sugggestions are, found the second city and start hooking up the horses. After the settler is built in capital, start building library in it(whip it), also we should get 1 more cottage up in our capital. And mine one of the plains hills. At size 5 we can work 2 flood plains, the cow, and 2 plains hill while building oracle. That was one of the mistakes I made, by mistake I mined the grassland hill instead of plains hill :sad: .

Also make sure to get code of laws before oracle is completed :p

That's me up, now. I'll play in a couple of hours.

Talamane
Quack >> just played
Rex >> up for 15t
Imhotep >> on deck for 15t
Omni >> In the hole for 10t
Pholk >> On stand-by if OP's still out (10t)

I'll comment on Qwack's set and strategize once I open the save.

After opening the save, here's my dotmap. (I suck at dotmaps.) I absolutely agree with Qwack about overlap. Maybe one of those cities will reach size 21 before 1800AD, but the other won't.

That said, my brown dot (one north of Pholk's green) is really crowded in on Thebes. It's my "yeah, we got fish and maybe a couple of beakers" city.

I'll leave it open for discussion. If we have none, I'll found the horses city at my red in my set, probably.

For now, 1 and 2 looks fine.The others I havent really put any thought into so far ;). 5 Looks like a perfect candidate for a GP farm, so overlap doesnt matter in that city. I actually think 5 should be either 3 or 4, GP farm powerhouse right there. I dont think we neeed the crabs and fish in same city, it has fish and 4 flood plains, which is a crapload of food right there. Overall, I agree 100% with the locations, although the order, maybe 5 should be founded a bit earlier.

good turns qwack ~ too bad you didn't get the second city :p

I think 1 and 2 are the next candidates - 5 looks like the classical gap filler city, but with 2 seafood resources the city is a candidate for the whip and for GP farm. I think it will depend on what is west to us - is there a Civ close by, so that we need to settle aggressively, or do we have miles and miles to expand peacefully and undisturbed ? Looks like a quite interesting setup so far, but I really do think that we are off to a good start. Guys, if we can pull off the CS-slingshot, that will put us lightyears ahead. Hope we can do it !

I dont think we neeed the crabs and fish in same city, it has fish and 4 flood plains, which is a crapload of food right there.

I think 1 and 2 are the next candidates - 5 looks like the classical gap filler city, but with 2 seafood resources the city is a candidate for the whip and for GP farm.!

To be clear, I moved my brown dot (#5) up from Pholk's to avoid the 2 seafood in one city. My brown captures the floodplains and leaves the fish for the southern peninsula.

Fish and 4 floodplains are even better ! It's your Brownie then :D ;) .

My turns blew. Sorry. Opening the save, I see that our settler isn't due for 14 turns with no way to speed that up, practically (can't whip without BW). I researched Writing and Mysticism and began on Meditation, due in 9.

Our slave finished two floodplains cottages and has moved onto a plains hill for mining.

Cathy and HC both adopted Slavery, so let's be on the lookout for Axes.

Cathy opened her borders to us when we discovered writing. And, lastly, I lost another warrior to a barb warrior. 30% odds crossing a river and he still beat me. Timmy, my RNG luck has been horrible since you changed your screen name. :gripe:

Anyhow, pictures...

Kathy opening her...borders...to us.
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2360_cathy.jpg

We're not yet hopeless!
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2470_largest.jpg

Writing in 2380
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2380_writing.jpg

Combat log losing my warrior. [pissed]
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2350_combat.jpg

Mystified in 2110
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2110_myst.jpg

Our empire. Note the Silver I found up north. If there's a seafood resource anywhere up there, that could be nice.
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2050_world.jpg

And finally, The Big Olive.
http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2050_thebes.jpg

Here's the log.

Turn 53, 2410 BC: You have discovered Writing!

Turn 54, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.20) vs Queens Men's Warrior (2.50)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Combat Odds: 30.1%
Turn 54, 2380 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 54, 2380 BC: Barbarian's Warrior has defeated Queens Men's Warrior!

Turn 58, 2260 BC: Huayna Capac adopts Slavery!

Turn 62, 2140 BC: You have discovered Mysticism!

Turn 63, 2110 BC: Catherine adopts Slavery!


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC2050_01.Civ4SavedGame

Edit: BTW, the settler popped on my 14th turn and I began a warrior to make up for our last two. The settler and the northern warrior are now sitting on our Horse city site, waiting to found on someone's turn 1.

http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/bc2360_cathy.jpg

HAHAHHAHA :lol:. Oh man, you better post this picture when your reporting our game to the others.

Talamane
Quack
Rex >> just played
Imhotep >> up for 15t
Omni >> In the hole for 10t
Pholk >> On stand-by if OP's still out (10t)

I'm up. But I can't get to this until Tuesday, so if paul or pholky want to grab it, feel free to go. If not I'll see if I can get this done on Monday...but I'd rather not play quick and sluggish, so Tuesday would be better.

·Imhotep·

@rex: Sorry for your combat luck. Mine increased, yours decreased - we'll see how this turns out...

Let's wait for you. I have other SGs i need to play as well as piece together my epic2 report as it seems as if most of my notes are missing and i'll need to compile something from screenshots! Nice!!

All right, I'll get to this when I come home at 17.00 GMT. Will try hard to get this done proper but quick.

·Imhotep·

Played. Report will be up in some minutes...

Played. Report will be up in some minutes...

How many minutes? It's already been 7?!?

Edit: Yes, I know that 22 - 17 = 5, not 7. But my system clock said 11:24 at the time.

Well, there was nothing to do in most cases for me, so the turns were in most cases pretty uneventful. I try to describe my thoughts in the following brief write-up - but don't expect too much, I'll spare my humble wits and the great storys for a later part of this SG...

Turn 1 (2020 BC):

As rex has pointed out, the Warrior/Settler pair has reached its picked spot. The next player should found Memphis on his first turn, and I do so.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2469/11ny2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

For now I'll set it to work on a Warrior for I want it to grow immediately. Furthermore we don't know how many barbs are abroad already, and some insurance might not hurt. In a bit of a :smoke: moment I order the worker to start a road immediately, not noticing that Memphis and Thebes will be connected through the river anyway.

Turn 2 (1990 BC):

As proposed Memphis and Thebes are connected, and the game gives me a friendly hint on that. So I cancel the road and move the worker to hook up the horses immediately. We need those Wheels of Slaughter, right ?

Turn 3 (1960 BC):

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3936/26pd1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

On the next turn the first Wonder of the World falls. Stonehenge is BIDL, and I think about what this means for our Oracle plans. 1960 BC is relatively early for Stonehenge - maybe we have some Industrious Civ aboard. Might well be that Oracle proves to be a tough one. Hopefully the AI will pursue Pyramids instead. Be that as it may, the Warrior finishes in Thebes, and I set it to train another Settler. Thebes could grow to size 5, but then it reaches its happiness limit. I see no gain in immediate growth - better to get another city on the way !

Turn 4 (1930 BC):

:sleep: :coffee:

Turn 5 (1900 BC):

The Worker finally arrives at Memphis and starts on the pasture. It is said that the Egyptians love those beasts for their slender beauty and their grace - but maybe they're just too lazy to walk on their own feet, huh ?

Turn 6 (1870 BC):

Another little stone in our Oracle puzzle: Meditation is in !

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9206/31pd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I set research to Priesthood for unlocking the Oracle...

Turn 7 (1840 BC AD):

I use the Warrior out of Thebes to do a little more scouting, at least I try to do so: I spot a Barb Warrior prowling at our borders. Maybe we'll just invite him for some olives and some wine. Doesn't that sound tempting buddy ?

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/1506/45xy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 8 (1810 BC):

I decide to return with my warrior to give this fellow a nice and warm, brotherly welcome. We ain't the Hippies, but we sure know how to chill ! Well, frankly I don't want to be the one that blew the game in 1810 BC by letting through a ravaging Barb. We will see the land beyond in the West early enough.

Turn 9 (1780 BC):

The most noteworthy event of this turn: The borders of Memphis expand. :worship: the Creative Trait !

Turn 10 (1750 BC):

Seems that our fellow in black doesn't like Egyptian olives and wine. He simply withdrew into the dark shades of the woods, not to be seen for a mortal eye. The pasture is finished: :worship: our friends, the Horse-Gods !

Turn 11 (1720 BC):

The people of Memphis and of Thebes want to :worship: the Horse-Gods but don't know a way to get to their holy temple. Therefore the legendary builder Imhotep orders to dig a road to the holy temple ! Our brave Warrior lands directly next to our dark friend – and he has brought his brother to the party too ! Two are always better than one, the more, the merrier !

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/879/73jx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

To be continued...

Turn 12 (1690 BC):

The next piece of the Oracle puzzle has finished: Priesthood comes in, I set research to CoL (31 turns). And look at this:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5665/81oc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

See the messages behind the tech splash ? Our Warrior has sent the dark friend and his brother back home, telling them stories about the wrath of the Horse Gods. That frightened them so much they turned home immediately. Our good Warrior gets a Promotion (Storyteller I) for his brave campaign and takes some well-earned rest in the woods...

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6817/95iu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 13 (1660 BC):

Our Scientists are on strike because they hadn't got a chance to visit the Temple of the Horse Gods yet. So they research 10% less than before. Lazy jerks !

Turn 14 (1630 BC):

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/775/107oi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:worship: the Horse Gods ! Hearing that Cows are somewhat similar to Horses, Imhotep the Legendary Builder orders that they should get a Temple next to the Horse God's one too. He also orders a War Chariot in Thebes (6 turns).

Turn 15 (1600 BC):

Memphis finally finishes a Warrior and begins training a War Chariot...

Summary:

Pretty calm turns compared to our Always War Game :D . Seems that I got some revenge for rex' bad combat luck. Note that there is a Settler queued up in Thebes with only 4 turns left. CoL is coming in 33 turns.

And here is...the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC1600_01.Civ4SavedGame

Sounds good. If we want that slingshot, we'd better plan. I say set the worker to building cottages around Thebes. 33 turns is a long time away!

Then we should start the Oracle now, but set it in queue when it's one turn away.

We've gotten screwed out of a deficit spending research by those early RNG mishaps. Otherwise, we'd have probably popped a hut for some extra gold. Either way, it looks like we're only -1/turn, so don't leave it at 90% for too long. We should build a surpluss pretty quickly.

I'll spare my humble wits and the great storys for a later part of this SG...Yes, please spare us :mischief:

Good turns. i'll play tonight when i get in. Any thoughts on the next city??

Good turns. i'll play tonight when i get in. Any thoughts on the next city??

Yes. Put it where I have my #2 or I'll have your bladder for a change purse.

We've had 30/20/15/15 so far, which is 80 turns. 33 is cutting it pretty close, it would be aproximately 75 turns in a normal speed game, which is 1000 AD.

If Thebes and Memphis isnt connected yet, someone should build a road between those 2 rivers. The +2 beakers from trade routes will help ;p. Next player should try to maximize commerce(but dont neglect growth too much) and somehow reduce CoL by around 5-10 turns to make it more guaranteed. Have we built a library in Thebes yet? If we havent, do that now!

[edit] Ill check the save in a hour or so.

Thebes and Memphis are connected, according to Timmy's write-up, but I don't know if the trade route happens immediately. 33 turns is only at each city's present size. Honestly, Thebes probably shouldn't be building a settler right now if we really want to hit this slingshot, but it's done it a few, so we'll just use our city 3 to boost commerce.

Library will take a while unless we sacrifice research to put it out quicker. Any thoughts on that?

@Qwack:

No, there isn't a library in Thebes yet. I put that back in regard to the settler and then to the War Chariot. The next player can switch to it easily though. It takes around 6 turns or so. Memphis and Thebes are connected - which you could see on my last screenie... If we jump back to 100% research this cuts immediately 2 or 3 turns off CoL. We should be able to do that soon, for we make +2 gpt at 90% due to the river - as Qwack said earlier.

Edit @rex: It isn't building a Settler right now, I've queued up a War Chariot. This can be easily replaced by the Lib. Thebes then will grow to size 5 in a couple of turns, and it can then work one more floodplain, yielding 1 more commerce off the bat...

·Imhotep·

Actually, correction to Pholk. Put the city on whichever of the flags has the highest immediate commerce gain.

I think for now, if we have a war chariot to defend our third city already, we should switch the war chariot in thebes to library. I really dont want to end up missing oracle by like 2 or 3 turns, that has happened to me a whole crapload of times already.. :p

If it grows size 5, we can quickly build another cottage on a floodplains for 1 more bpt. We are going to build cottages on all those anyways.

Another thing to do would obviously be: Stop that worker from pasturing the cows and instead clutter Thebes with cottages...should have thought on that, but after hooking up the Horses it seemed logical to do the same with those cows, giving Memphis a strong start out of the gate...

Edit @Qwack: Nay, no Chariots built yet. Memphis and Thebes are building both one, taking 6 turns for each. But we could do it with two out of Memphis probably and switch Thebes to a Lib...

but after hooking up the Horses it seemed logical to do the same with those cows, giving Memphis a strong start out of the gate... I agree with pasturing the cows first, we cant neglect our outside cities that much for 1 extra beaker per turn. After its done though ynext player should build a cottage on anotehr floodplains in thebes.

Rex, city 5 seems to have the highest initial commerce gain, man I would really love another worker right now to pump out those cottages quickly :P. Pholkhero, if you do found City 5 first, you should build 1 temporary cottage in it also, we will eventually take that out though since we decided 5 is our GP farm.

[edit] I would probably settle 5 here, since it also will give us 0 distance maintenance, city 3 would give us 1 distance maintenenance, which means we would have to keep our research at 90%, 5 would pay for itself automatically.

The thing which bothers me is that Huayana founded buddhism, but some other civ founded hinduism. This means we probably have 2 other civ's chasing us for oracle, I think we should try to cut down on the time of col one way or another. Right now the most obvious way is to build a library in thebes. So yeah, I basically agree, we should designate memphis for army and build a library/then settler in thebes.

I acutally think #4 or #5 is good for now. Both have direct access to that river there, and we can cottage all those flood plains. Yes, I think 5 right away, and another worker quickly, too. In my 10 turns, I will build the settler, go to lib (so it should be done by the end of my turns), build another worker after WC is done at Memphis, and start cottage-spamming ASAP.

edit: saw Qwack's edit ~ i will go library>settler to appease the great and powerful Qwack :worship:

I dotn think 4 is a good choice, since it gives distance maintenance and is overall a weaker city than 5. 5 or 3 for now, your choice pholkhero! MAKE IT COUNT :lol:

I'd suggest to use the second warrior I trained in Memphis for the City Garrison of City 3. Since it will most likely be spot 5 - which is in the mountain-range sheltered East - it doesn't need a stronger Garrison for now. I'd rather say we use the Chariots for Homeland Defense against Barbs coming from the West and for Scouting there...

"The Save File you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed."

Got htis msg.

I finally cut the cord and deleted the autolog (renamed: "stupid" for even purposes) folder totally off my hard drive.

It works fine now! I'm playing...be back in 10t.

05/16/06
1600bc/turn00:
Wow, never played so late in the rotation. Need to familiarize myself w/everything here. Ok, I checked the thread. Immy said that we could have a library in six turns or soThebes: 20 turns, Memphis: 34t. I put Thebes onto a settler to finish up, and leave Memphis on barracks. With the 3rd city up and running as a commerce center, we can afford to have Memphis cranks some units w/those 2 cows, hills and fresh water. Include that guy in the next Imhotep Gazette :mischief: Move the warrior west for a better view while resting. The worker is done w/the cows in 3t. Enter.

1570/turn01:
Judaism drops. I set the warrior to heal in more panoramic spot.
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5185/1570warriorview3zk.jpg

1540/turn02:
Nothing.

1510/turn03:
Warrior is done. He’s on the march a bit.

1480/turn04:
Settler done in Thebes. Go for library. Done in 19. Our intrepid warrior encounters a barb. He runs away. I also found Cathy’s borders. Mmm…I smell a victim. :hammer:

1450/turn05:
Huayna goes Org Rel. Our worker is done at Memphis. I send him south to cottage another flood plain for when Thebes grows in 8. Our settler ascends his hill. I also hit 100% sci @ -1gpt, 16 in the bank; CoL in 25 :dance: well, I reduced the amt of turns as ordered Sir Quack. I fortify our warrior on the hills just outside Cathy’s lands.
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/3435/1450barbwarrior0xp.jpg

edit: turnlog indicates that Pyramids BIDL :eek:

1420/turn06:
Heliopolis is founded.
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1010/1420heliopolis7zh.jpg
I have it start on a warrior. It will be done in 22, but the city will grow in 11, so we can work that hill until the warrior is done, and work 2 flood plains to get a worker out quick. Cottage is started @ Thebes. It will be done a turn or so after it grows.

1390/turn07:
The barb warrior is gone! I wonder if went for Cathy’s borders. If that works, perhaps we can lead all local barbs that way :devil: I PUT OUR WARRIOR ON SENTRY
He’ll fog bust for us out west.

1360/turn08:
Nothing much. A new barb appears out of the southern fog . . . again.

1330/turn09:
Barb disappears back into the fog. I notice Memphis is at pop3 now, but I’m not sure when exactly that happened.

1300/turn10:
Nothing much else.

Status: Thebes: pop5: 3t, library: 13t, cottage: 4t; Memphis: pop4: 11; Barracks: 5t; Heliopolis: pop2: 7t; warrior: 18t. Remember to work that hill at pop2! CoL in 17t.
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/3120/1300egypt4km.jpg
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3189/1300greateregypt4le.jpg

And the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC1300_01.Civ4SavedGame

Talemane: UP NOW
Quack: on deck
Rex:
Imhotep:
Pholk:

Omni:

Pyramids BIDL this early? Looks like an industrius civ with stone. Wait, what year is it? 1300. Is that early for Pyramids on monarch? I guess not really. We're just way behind the AI, it seems.

I'm not used to going for wonders on monarch. Qwack, you have more experience here. Are we boned in our slingshot?

I'm not used to going for wonders on monarch. Qwack, you have more experience here. Are we boned in our slingshot?

To be honest, I cant really tell until we either get oracle, or miss it :P.

On Monarch, AI builds oracle around 1000 AD(75 turns on normal, 112 turns on Epic) on average, if there is a industrial civ with mysticism(Gandhi), or many of the AI's in the game start with mysticism, it will get built earlier. I think the same civ that got stonehenge probably got pyramids, and thats because of stone. The people that are probably chasing us for oracle ATM are the 2 civs which found hinduism and buddhism... I dont think if we get beat to oracle, it will be the civ which built the pyramids and stonehenge, but we'll see.

What might happen though is the civ which got stonehenge beats us to Confucionism and code of laws, with tthe great prophet he generates from the stonehenge :(. I think next player should speed up that library a bit(whip it maybe), the problem right now isnt production, its research of code of laws..

I agree that Stonhenge and Pyramids came from the same civ, a product of industrial and stone, and that, probably, that civ founded one of the first two religions.

So that civ will be gunning for the Oracle. Are you sure about that 1000AD figure? That sounds late to me.

Thats about the average, you can give or take 10 turns either way. I saw sullla doing the CS slingshot on emperor in one of his solo games in 775 AD :p . So its all on a game-to-game basis.

Right now we are 90 turns into the game, I would say to be safe, we have around 15 more to build it, after that theres a decent possibility we will lose it. We should try to cut it down as much as possible while trying to make sure CoL comes in before it. If we do lose it here, we can still win the game, but we probably wont have any chance at the laurel :(

If gandhi is in the game and he built both stonehenge and pyramids, we might as well lose oracle, but I dont think it was him, probably napoleon or someone else. Because I have noticed if a civ founds a religion, that civ will go for oracle before pyramids.

think next player should speed up that library a bit(whip it maybe), the problem right now isnt production, its research of code of laws..We don't have BW :(

Ah right, stupid me.

Well in that case, I believe next player should start the oracle so that it finishes right when CoL comes in. Even if the library isnt finished by then.

Well, as I mostly play Gandhi in my SP games I may add some of my experience. I'm certainly a builder. I do chase for all three early wonders even on Monarch, even if it costs me the game. I just love those wonders so much. I usually find that the Pyramids has the top priority on the AI build list - if any can't get them and Oracle is still open they chase that one. In most of my games Oracle fell pretty quick, but that was because I was rushing towards it. The AI might be slower on this one, but Priesthood doesn't take much time, and most of the AI don't aim for a CS slingshot. And still I found sometimes that Oracle was still open after I had already finished Pyramids and Stonehenge.

Sulla in fact is no benchmark for he is such an outstanding player that he romps the AI on Emperor with ease. I'd say that we still have a chance on the slingshot - but it's gonna be a tight decision, and it would be tough to lose it by a couple of turns.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say: Let's just play, try our best - and give a damn s***t about those laurels ! I just want to enjoy another good time with you guys and play an interesting game !

·Imhotep·

I agree w/Immy. let's just do it and let the cards fall where they may. I agree w/qwack though, too...we should swap to the library (which perhaps i should've not even started due to the length and went right to oracle...sorry about the :smoke: guys)

I agree w/Immy. let's just do it and let the cards fall where they may. I agree w/qwack though, too...we should swap to the library (which perhaps i should've not even started due to the length and went right to oracle...sorry about the :smoke: guys)

I don't think it will make any difference. If the Oracle gets built we lose some cash that we would have got if it had been down to 1 turn already, right. But that won't make a game decisive difference...Thebes needs a Lib anyway, so I wouldn't dare to call this move a :smoke:y one...

I don't think it will make any difference. If the Oracle gets built we lose some cash that we would have got if it had been down to 1 turn already, right.

Uh...er...right? I'm dumb, please stop making my brain hurt. How 'bout this... Have fun. Build whatever. Laurels are for resting on anyway.

I'm dumb, please stop making my brain hurt.

I didn't know you and pholky were actually relatives... ;) :D :) Still, I agree with your second sentence.

Since we have found so nicely together I'd ask one question that has been burning on my mind quite long: Where is Nantucket ? And why is it something special to be a man from there ?

Where is Nantucket ? And why is it something special to be a man from there ?

Let me PM you. It's a little tasteless to post any proper answer.


Edit: Okay, you've been PMed. Anyone else want a copy?

:P. It doesnt matter, we will win either way, we have a chance at the laurel thing if we can pull off the slingshot though. Blame my competitive personality, I have more fun when I do good. But thats just me :).

Once oracle takes the same amount of time to build as Code of Law's takes to research, I would switch to it from the library, we can always come back to library later. I still think we will get oracle, we arent that far, just that in this game wonders are being built suprisingly early :P.

[edit]
Well actually, I would switch to oracle now, since CoL is in 17 turns according to pholkhero's report, thats about how long oracle will take to build. 17 from now is 107, earlier than my pregame prediction of 112 turns, where I thought we should be when we build oracle. So im still pretty confident about it.

[Edit#2]
I opened up the save, I think we can get it. Talamene, if you cancel the cottage and mine the plains hill, it will cut down oracle to around 21 turns, then with some micromanagement we can probably cut that even further to around 19 turns. I think we can get oracle here, I highly doubt hte civ which got pyramids and stonehenge will beat us to it. He probably delayed his growth by building those 2 wonders so early, and so now is probably concentrating more on settlers.

The above is why qwack is better than me :D

in other news, i'm the 100th post and 1000th view

http://www.dmcconkey.com/rexpholk/dumbest_screenshot_ever.jpg

yes, okay, everyone is very clever...pick on porky..pholky...i'm gonig to shoot you w/me "'Elba's of Fire"

:cry: it said 99/999 when i clicked on it :cry:

b-dee, b-dee, b-dee that's all pholks

"Go, go Gadget Elbows"

Whats up with all the blue in your browser Rex?

:vomit: :vomit:

Whats up with all the blue in your browser Rex?

:vomit: :vomit:

It's the "Dark Blue Forum Skin" in your user control panel. Not to be confused with the dark blue foreskin in your...:eek: ...never mind.

OK, got it. Will play/post tomorrow.

Let me PM you. It's a little tasteless to post any proper answer.


Edit: Okay, you've been PMed. Anyone else want a copy?

Okay, I understand now. That also explains your "complain" about being 6 foot 2, 280 lb and "hung like a baby" :D ;) . Well, at least your wife has one thing she can be content with in your marriage ;) :D ...

Okay, I understand now. That also explains your "complain" about being 6 foot 2, 280 lb and "hung like a baby" :D ;) . Well, at least your wife has one thing she can be content with in your marriage ;) :D ...

That's 6 foot 4, Mr. LT. You gotta give me those last two inches. I earned them by banging my head on a lot of stuff in my life.

WARNING*** Dry as a popcorn f**t post ***WARNING

I could not get to play tonite. I will play/post tomorrow nite. Sorry for the delay.

WARNING*** Dry as a popcorn f**t post ***WARNING

I could not get to play tonite. I will play/post tomorrow nite. Sorry for the delay.

Houston, we got a problem !

;) :D

I will be gone this weekend. I'm "Pulling a Timon!" :lol:

less yammer, and more :hammer:

Not much happened. Catherine founded another city. The Oracle was built in 1150 BC, and a few turns later, Confucianism is founded. :( :( :( We never had a chance unless we would have settled for a CoL slingshot. Even then, i think our chances were slim.

Oh, well, started on some chariots and a worker. The only suggestion i have is that we secure the rice, so we can have some health.

I suppose we should start on the metal techs, maybe grab fishing first. Thoughts?

Turn 93, 1210 BC: The borders of Heliopolis have expanded!
Turn 94, 1180 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!
Turn 98, 1060 BC: Confucianism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 100, 1000 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Thebes!

The Big Bummer (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC1000_01.Civ4SavedGame)

Looking at the score curve, it's obvious that Rat etal have taken out Catherine. We might want to do the same.

Bleh, this was very early wonders builds. The real bummer is the person with oracle didnt take confucionism, so we had a better chance at that. Meh...

Now we should take out catherine :P.

So, what's the roster? Last posted was:

Talamane
Qwack
Rex
Imho
Pholk

Tally just played, but did we do some skipping in there? Anyone wanna be up?

Well, sad thing that we didn't get the CS slingshot, but with those build dates it was pretty impossible. I guess we have an industrial wonder whore on board. Well, that just means more plunder for later :D . I agree on taking out Cathy - let's crush some russian heads :ar15: :sniper: :hammer: !

As for tech order I'd suggest BW => Iron Working => Fishing, then Metal Casting or Mathematics => Construction.

·Imhotep·

Edit: Guys, this really was bad luck. I've started an SP game with Hatty as leader on Monarch and was able to snag the CS slingshot at 725 BC. Unfortunately I've an isolated start on a smaller continent, so there is no opponent to steel-hammer on... :sad: :sad: :cry:

Rex, if you want to take this be my guest, Im really loaded at the moment with exams and work :(. If you play this one, ill play the PH's and couple other SG's I have tommorow, then ill play this on wednesday..

Rex, if you want to take this be my guest, Im really loaded at the moment with exams and work :(. If you play this one, ill play the PH's and couple other SG's I have tommorow, then ill play this on wednesday..

I wish you'd told me that last night when I had the time. I'll definitely be able to play before Wednesday, though, so I guess I got it.

Here ye, here ye! Presenting, the Queen Mother!!
[portly transvestite enters]
*elbow, elbow, wrist, wrist*
*elbow, elbow, wrist, wrist*
[cue ridiculous, high-pitched, python-esque old woman's voice]
"OHHHHHHHHHHH! What do we have here, hmmmm?? No oracle? OHHHH!How tragic?!?"

well, that sucks :( but, no use crying over it. stiff upper lip and all that. Pip, pip, cheerio! (Sorry, my British-stereotypist is taking this down in dictation)

I wonder we're we would've been if we hadn't gone w/the Oracle/CS sling? Dead, i says!! :mad: Give me more soldiers, noble teammates, that we may sheathe their swords in the hearts of our enemies! I order us to attack Cathy!! Cry Havoc!!

Very frustrating turnset thanks to a ***** of a barb I inherited on turn 1. Certainly not upset at you, Talamane; you didn't make the &#@*er appear. Anyhow, here's the culprit:

http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/barb1.jpg

Had this been an SP (or probably even a normal SG), I would have moved Thebes' lone warrior onto the hill. We'd have had 25% defense bonus and probably a 75% chance of winning if attacked. However, our luck at 75% barb battles has been suspect so I stay put, knowing full well that everything in Thebes will be pillaged back to the stone age. (Yes, I know. We are in the stone age. Shut up, Pholk.)

First, he takes out the cattle.

http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/barb2.jpg

Then our village becomes a hamlet.

http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/barb3.jpg

Then our hamlet becomes a cottage (screenie lost).

But at least CoL finally comes in and we can throw courthouses at the &@!#$ (Begin researching BW so we can whip a defense in case this happens again.)

http://www.dmcconkey.com/images/cff/sgotm1/col.jpg

Finally, after all that, the barb suicides against Thebes...

That was the bad part. Okay, not the complete bad part. Parthenon BIFL in 970BC and Imhotep (not of Athens) BIFL in 895BC. Okay, really. No more bad part.

Good stuff:

970BC Memphis: Worker => War Chariot
970BC Thebes: Library => War Chariot
895BC Memphis: War Chariot => War Chariot
880BC Heliopolis: Warrior => Granary.

:smoke: stuff:

In a moment of opacity, I let Thebes grow to size 6 with only 5 happy (he have no happy juice anywhere on the map). We hates red-shirts, precious, so we lets 'em starves, we do. Thebes is now size 5 and stagnant, but working a &$@#-load of hammers.


Here's the log.

Turn 102, 970 BC: You have constructed a Library in Thebes. Work has now begun on a War Chariot.
Turn 102, 970 BC: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!

Turn 106, 910 BC: You have discovered Code of Laws!

Turn 107, 895 BC: Imhotep has been born in a far away land!
Turn 107, 895 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Queens Men's Warrior (4.30)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Combat Odds: 0.6%
Turn 107, 895 BC: (Plot Defense: +40%)
Turn 107, 895 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 107, 895 BC: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 107, 895 BC: (City Barbarian Defense: +25%)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Queens Men's Warrior is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 107, 895 BC: Queens Men's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!


Here's the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC0850_01.Civ4SavedGame

good turns, rexxie! I'm thinking that once we get to BW we should whip out a few axes with our high pop cities (they might all be around 6 by then) ~ also, i think we should send out those war chariots off to Russia to start the war w/some torched earth tactics. thoughts??

If we got Bronze anywhere, that is. Remember the map is hand-built, so there might be no metal of any kind near our original starting spot. Never mind, Flanking II War Chariots are great against anything. If we do not have metals, let's crush Cathy under some mighty wheels !

·Imhotep·

P.S.: We might ask Cathy for open borders first - a little scouting before might do good, it is always better to know where your targets are and what you will face...

P.S.: We might ask Cathy for open borders first - a little scouting before might do good, it is always better to know where your targets are and what you will face...

Don't think we ever got writing, did we?

Don't think we ever got writing, did we?

Hm, didn't think about that. Writing is prereq for CoL, but I guess we did take the alternate route via Priesthood. Merde !

Rooster:

Talamane => Popcorn farting as you read this
Qwack => Skipped to his lou
Rex => Just played, but I faked it at the end
Imho => Up (hopefully not losing in style)
Pholk => Still Pholk, despite our best efforts otherwise

:nuke: phhhhttttttttt. :nuke:

Alright, let's keep this train wreck moving. LT, have you got it? Anybody? Anybody? Beuler? Beuler?

Hey guys I am officially back. Imhotep is correct, flank 2 war chariots are great, 50% withdraw possibily means that they will die VERY VERY little. Add 1 medic into a stack, and we can go through everything with superior numbers and heal along the way.

Edit: We should have writing, its a prerequisite of CoL, you need writing and preisthood for Col.

I can play this tomorrow at the earliest. If anyone wants to have it before me - just step in. I spend some time now with a friend of mine who just came over, so I can't get to this for some time anyway.

·Imhotep·

I can play this tomorrow at the earliest. If anyone wants to have it before me - just step in. I spend some time now with a friend of mine who just came over, so I can't get to this for some time anyway.

·Imhotep·

Bad, bad, naughty little Deutschlander! We're all the friends you need now! The warmth of human embrace is NOTHING compared to the hallogen glow of your computer monitor, reflected from stark, white walls.

Your computer never laughs at your social incapacities, and nor does Civ ever shame you into spending "quality time" on loathesome shopping trips and awkward meals with relatives you barely know. Now get your priorities straight play this game, damned it!

[Pholk, start humming the patriotic music, please]

Our backs are to the wall, gentlemen. Team "who gives a &#!@ what their name is" is pulling away with this competition. While it was never my intention to win this misanthropic maladventure, I do have my dignity to maintain.

If there's one team we must not lose to, it's them. Now who's with me? Say it with me: "The Queen's Men shall not lose to pansies!".

"The Queen's Men shall not lose to pansies!"

"THE QUEEN'S MEN SHALL NOT LOSE TO PANSIES"!!!!!!

[Okay, Pholk, you can stop humming now.]

All this whining persuaded me. Playing 10 turns now.

„The one who searches will find.“


Inherited turn:

Well, rex signed Open Borders with Cathy and has left me a War Chariot to scout with. That I will do gladly since this will probably be the only eventful happening during my turnset. Let's see.

Turn 1 (835 BC):

Thebes and Memphis finish their War Chariots, I order up 2 more. We want to crush Cathy, right ? So we need 'em badly. My first scouting efforts reveal the city of Rostov. Hello !

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/2389/23pm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Two Archers on a hill, eh ? Might get difficult, but I trust in our Flanking War Chariots !

Turn 2 (820 BC):

Moving some units, nothing really important or scary happens...

Turn 3 ( 805 BC):

zzzzzzzz

Turn 4 (790 BC):

BW comes in, and as we've guessed there is no bronze near our starting location. Okay, I guess the integral part of this SG lies in the value of Egypt's UU and its proper use. I set research to Fishing, we want to net in those fishes at Heliopolis ASAP. Not only for city growth but for health issues also. In my scouting efforts I finally meet lovely St. Petersburg. Most interesting: Cathy has Bronze !

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4747/37xs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Again two Archers on a hill, this reminds me strangely of our very beginnings with RotQM !

Turn 5 (775 BC):

Thebes finishes its War Chariot, I order a Granary there. In a second thought I queue up the Granary behind a Settler - settling the spot #2 near the stone with those cows and clams rather sooner than later is an option. Memphis remains our unit factory, after finishing a War Chariot another one is trained there.

Turn 6 (760 BC):

More scouting...

Turn 7 (745 BC):

Fishing is in, and I set research to Iron Working (11 turns). We don't know if there is any, and Swords might help in any case. If we don't habe Iron Iron Working might come in handy nonetheless - there is lots of djungle down in Russia. In another move I change Heliopolis to train a Work Boat and MM it (working the mine), and I order up cottages at Thebes and Memphis. And I find this one: Moscow !

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6519/40ph3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another city on a hill and relatively well fortified: 3 Archers and one Chatriot in there.

Turn 8 (730 BC):

Memphis trains a War Chariot and... yes, you guessed it: another one is ordered. The citizens there are kinda unhappy, but there is nothing we can do about it. The scouting up north reveals no sea resource near the silver, the Warrior will remain there on fog busting duty.

Turn 9 (715 BC):

More scouting...

Turn 10 (700 BC):

More scouting...

Here is the land at the end of my 10:

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3919/50ew1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cathy's land

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/19/69mh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our land

Summary and outlook:

Cathy sure ain't easy pickings, but with lots of War Chaiots it seems quite doable. But we must be quick before she gets the Bronze online and has some Axes abroad... I didn't switch to Slavery yet, next player should do this...

·Imhotep·

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>THE SAVE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC0700_01.Civ4SavedGame)

nice turns. it seems as if, once we revolt, a quick round or two of whips will be good for getting out a bunch of WC's quick enough. Then, we should overrun Russia, perhaps focusing on pillaging at first.

Excellent...</Mr. Burns>

LT, how'd you get the resources all orange? Did you do that manually, or is there a setting?

Regarding the game, let's not fall into a trap of the next three guys all afraid to declare because they're not certain of the timing. I say declare now, on Pholk's first turn, and rush into a pillage spree. Draw some of Cathy's defenders, if possible. Also on turn one, as Timmy wisely pointed out, revolt to slavery and rush about three more chariots on turn two--again, if possible.

The point? We don't have to wait until we have overwhelming forces to declare.

LT, how'd you get the resources all orange? Did you do that manually, or is there a setting?that is the normal zoomed-out view i believe, you've just never noticed it, methinks. Okay, i was thinking just declare as soon as those outlying WCs in Egypt gets a little closer to Russia. It'd be nice tif they have nothing stronger than archers.

Well, Cathy has some Chariots, but I've seen only Archers - unpromoted all of them ! - apart from that.

IMPORTANT NOTE FOR THE PLAYER DECLARING WAR:

Cathy has a 2 (or 3 ?) Archers/1 Chariot Stack that is currently scouting our lands. On declaration the stack will be set back to the nearest neutral land strip - please make sure it cannot do any damage by getting into our homeland (worst case: the stack gets set to the little strip north of Memphis up by the silver and all troops have gone to the front). Keep some defenders at hand !

·Imhotep·

P.S.: @rex: I hate to admit it ;) , but pholky is right. This is the normal zoomed out view and Cathy's orange cultural borders gives these signs that optic.

that is the normal zoomed-out view i believe, you've just never noticed it, methinks. Okay, i was thinking just declare as soon as those outlying WCs in Egypt gets a little closer to Russia. It'd be nice tif they have nothing stronger than archers.

Nah. Take a look at one of your screenies of Egypt:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3189/1300greateregypt4le.jpg

The pointers are yellow, but the cows, stone, etc are normally colored.

Now, Imhotep's:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/19/69mh.jpg

See the yellow cows and yellow stone?

IMPORTANT NOTE FOR THE PLAYER DECLARING WAR:

Cathy has a 2 (or 3 ? )Archers/1 Chariot Stack that is currently scouting our lands. On declararation the stack will be set back to the nearest neutral land strip - please make sure it cannot do any damage by getting into our homeland (worst case: the stack gets set to the little strip north of Memphis up by the silver and all troops have gone to the front). Keep some defenders at hand !

Maybe cancel open borders first to make sure our hottie of a foe get's sent to a friendlier land?

Well, I just zoomed out and hit Ctrl-I - I didn't toggle off all other things like you probably did...

Maybe cancel open borders first to make sure our hottie of a foe get's sent to a friendlier land?#

Sounds like a great idea ! :D

if anything, then, it's teh "resource" overlay of the globe view

Funny, I opened the save and played with the options. I couldn't make it display like LT's, but I did realize--about five minutes into it--that I don't *want* it to display like that anyway. I'm just too damn curious for my own good. On the plus side, I did find some interesting options I'll play with later.

On the plus side, I did find some interesting options I'll play with later.Your wife is that mad at ya, huh?? ;)

Between Civ and wife, it's no contest. My wife has no options (just the one toggle between ***** and sort-of-*****), no SDK, degrading graphics, and way more expensive than the $40 I paid Best Buy for the game.

Ding ding ding! Winner!

Oh &$#!, my wife just pulled up. I gotta go.

I've got it. I'm playing 10 and will declare war ASAF (as soon as feasible) ~ let's remember, we've got to go dom so let's not forget to throw in a settler every now and again with the builds.

T00/700: OB cancelled; the Russian archer/chariot goes west of Egypt, while our WC is in the south of Russia, which is fine with me.

T01/685: Ahh f- it! Audaces fortuna iuvat.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4074/set013jz.jpg
I capture a worker, discover this city,
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9523/set026rn.jpg
and kill the civilian!
Also, up north, our War Chariots move out.

T02/670:
One WC survives an attack from a Russian chariot west of Egypt. Our WCs retaliate, but we must wait for reinforcements to finish off this mini-stack. Also, our forces approach Rostov-on-the-hill.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8696/set032yz.jpg
I pillage down south.

T03/655:
My last WC finishes off the Russian chariot and I’m free to move to Rostov w/them. The assault can begin when they’re all healthy and assembled there. To that end, give one WC Med I. I pillage the copper west of Rostov, too, for good measure! More pillaging down south.

T04/640:
Oh! An axe appears in Rostov and kills a Chariot of ours. No good.

T05/625:
I consolidate in our territory a bit for now as I await the troops. We’ll be ready to move out next turn.

T06/610:
Inter-turn fortune, good and bad ~ bad: we lost our warrior to a chariot outside Rostov; good: Cathy’s axe moves onto the open plains. Chariots: forward! We need a Shock WC desperately. I send in a Flank II WC; it w/draws. Okay, Flank I WC takes him out; good for us! They need to rest, though, pretty badly. That will slow the advance. I whip a WC @ Thebes.

T07/595:
Aiee! Our southern WC takes on 3: a chariot and an archer before finally succumbing to a second archer. A True Egyptian Hero! Our WC’s come in at Thebes and Heliopolis; I put them on more WCs and the whip is coming to them next turn, too!!

T08/580:
Whip WC at Helio; whip one at Thebes. One is done naturally @ Memphis and another is begun. I figure, I can build the army, the next person can use it and recover the homeland at the same time.

T09/565:
IW comes in and I go for Math after much deliberation. I reason that an aim toward Construction will be good for finishing off Cathy; we'll also need CoL soon. Whip WC @ Memphis.

T10/550:
WC at Memphis, one more coming in 2. Workboat done @ Helio and its going onto a granary. We could probably whip it soon, esp. after the wb is set. A WC loses to a chariot near Rostov. The rest attack the city. Flank II goes in and loses! Flank I goes in an loses! Unpromoted WC wins, and Flank I wins and Rostov is ours!
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3884/set045hc.jpg
Our Medic WC takes out that Russian chariot, and they'll all need to wait to heal. Our army of WCs is either in, next to or just east of Rostov. They can be moved west into Greater Russia and wreak havoc. A worker that we captured has been put out to start a road east and prepare to mine that iron. Swords will be nice, esp. with Cathy’s nice road system. Math is due in 13 turns at 100% (-10gpt, 115 bank).

A map.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7974/set058gs.jpg

Sigh, I wish I could play more, but more screens and the save to come.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2364/set064rg.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7098/set075gu.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7017/set080yf.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/417/set099gq.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1944/set101ga.jpg

Roster, in order:
Talamane => Come along and follow me (UP NOW)
Qwack => to the bottom of the sea (on deck)
Rex => we'll join in the jamboree
Imho => at the codfish ball!
Pholk => Cod-Fish Ball! (just played)

This is Save, my only friend, the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Queens_Men_SG001_BC0550_01.Civ4SavedGame)

@pholk:

Great job of taking Rostov ! I'm glad I set research to Iron Working so we can use the Iron near Rostov soon (oh I love the Creative Trait :) , just think of having to build an Obelisk there first - would delay the Iron for 35 turns or so...). City Raider Swords will be a big help against those Hill Archers. This was a rather tempting start on the war effort. Guys, if Victory Questionable could romp over Cathy, we should be able to do the same easily enough :D ;) ...

·Imhotep·

OK, this makes 3 SGs pending for me this weekend. :D I will play/post the easy one (not this one) tonite, and play this one tomorrow. Could a Civ freak ask for more on MD weekend?

In 505 BC, Cathy sends an escorted settler out. :smoke: At the loss of a plain chariot, kill the archer and chariot escort and get another worker.

Things did not go as well at St Pete. Lost most of our stack killing off the defenders. Of particular pain was the loss of the medic chariot in an 80% chance encounter. Nonetheless, we have four chariots at its doorstep with only chariots as defenders. Three are badly hurt, and chariots have no defense, so a stategic withdrawl may make sense. If Cathy moves a decent defender into St Pete, a widthdrawl would be mandatory. Rostov just made it first border expansion and the workers building a rice farm should head to the iron pronto. The settler is heading towards site #2.

We now have a road between Rostov and Thebes. Let's try and build one between Memphis and Thebes. I built a mine as an alternate tile for Memphis to stagnate its growth and get hammers in return. Helio needs a cottage to up our income.

Our cities have happiness problems with all the whipping, so i have stagnated their growth. Helio is unhappy at size 3! Science is at 80%, - 5GPT. We have no religion, so working a high dollar/food tile will simply create another unhappy person. We should consider peace once St Pete is taken, regroup the economy, make an ax/sword stack and re-declare.


Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.00) vs Catherine's Chariot (4.00)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Combat Odds: 74.9%
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Chariot is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Chariot is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Chariot is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Chariot is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Chariot has defeated Queens Men's War Chariot!
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.00) vs Catherine's Archer (7.35)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Combat Odds: 10.4%
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Plot Defense: +45%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer has defeated Queens Men's War Chariot!
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.00) vs Catherine's Archer (7.35)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Combat Odds: 10.4%
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Plot Defense: +45%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer has defeated Queens Men's War Chariot!
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.00) vs Catherine's Archer (1.47)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Plot Defense: +45%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot has defeated Catherine's Archer!
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.00) vs Catherine's Archer (0.29)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Plot Defense: +45%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot has defeated Catherine's Archer!
Turn 130, 550 BC: You have captured Rostov!!!
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.50) vs Catherine's Chariot (0.48)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 130, 550 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Catherine's Chariot is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 130, 550 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot has defeated Catherine's Chariot!
Turn 130, 550 BC: You have trained a War Chariot in Thebes. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 131, 535 BC: Archimedes has been born in a far away land!
Turn 131, 535 BC: Moses has been born in a far away land!

Turn 134, 490 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot (5.00) vs Catherine's Archer (4.50)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Combat Odds: 68.5%
Turn 134, 490 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 490 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Queens Men's War Chariot is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Queens Men's War