Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170295) for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory. All victory conditions are still enabled though, with exception of Space Race, so you have to avoid getting another type of victory (and of course prevent the AIs from winning).

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12.

Here's the start position.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/SGOTM01_start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Hapshepsut of Egypt
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Mystery
Game Speed - Epic

Permanent Alliances are turned on (can form permanent alliances after either communism or fascism is researched)
Space race is disabled.
Egypt is locked into war with Huayna Capac of the Incas.
Egypt is locked into peace with an unknown civilization.

The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439)

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization4 v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award - the Gold Laurels.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by either domination or diplomacy.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Good luck to your team, and remember rule #1: Enjoy your game :D

Leif signing in for this most excellent SGOTM!! :D

Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door!

And here I am.

Question: when should we decide if we're going diplo or domination?

And here I am.

Question: when should we decide if we're going diplo or domination?

Domination will come sooner if we focus on it, unless there are some things hiding in the map we don't know it, like a civ on the moon (I suspect Gyathaar is capable of putting a nation on the moon should he want to do that).

But if we commit to early domination then we will make getting to the tech for a successful UN vote much harder. Judging from what I can see we have a very strong position for an early domination.

And I don't think the Inca Quecha is too much of a over match for Hattie's War Chariots (unlike Mansa's Skirmishers which eat chariots for breakfast). It means we can't depend on archers for defense, though.

Settler to the hill 1SE and away we go would be my vote. Research Animal Husbandry, then Pottery if we have all the enabling tech (we start with wheels but I forget if AH or AGRI will unlock Pottery ). Then the Mining to Bronze Working Boogie.

Send the warrior south to find the mouth of th Nile.

I'm here also.

I think everyone is aware of who our reserved spot is for, so hopefully he'll return before this kicks off.

@Redbad and romeo - I know romeo has followed our games in the past but this is my first SG with Redbad. I've followed your G/COTM adventures so I jumped at the chance to add you to our group. The Xteam is usually a pretty laid back group, we like to win if possible but we like to have fun. We pride ourselves on learning and suggesting many different strategies. And we do like to discuss things. So I welcome you both to the team and encourage you to post questions, comments and even criticisms freely.

Question: when should we decide if we're going diplo or domination?

I know we need to decide VC early but I'm not sure where a deadline for the decision occurs. Alot will depend on the map and how quickly we can meet all the others in the game. I've not played a diplo game so the relationship of religions and maintaining good relationship is new to me. We are locked in war with 1 civ so that can have a major influence depending on if they found religions.

I know we need to decide VC early but I'm not sure where a deadline for the decision occurs. Alot will depend on the map and how quickly we can meet all the others in the game. I've not played a diplo game so the relationship of religions and maintaining good relationship is new to me. We are locked in war with 1 civ so that can have a major influence depending on if they found religions.
Hi everyone and welcome to the XTeam. :wavey:

I'm not as familiar, nor as successful, as some of you guys. But, it seems to me we should make a decision on VC fairly early as a good tech plan is key to early victory.

@Bede, you're reading my mind! :goodjob: Agriculture unlocks Pottery, and this start is made for cottages, imho. BTW, did you mean the hill that the warrior (SE) is standing on or the hill to the SW? I kind of like the SW hill myself because of the Cow on Plains.

Gack! I meant 1SW (my other left).

Looks like the path is AGRI to POT to ANHU, then the Bronze Working Boogie.

My very first win at Prince was a diplo victory in 2049 and I have no idea how I got there. At any rate my knowledge has advanced somewhat by now. And what I do know is that a diplomatic victory takes you a long way down the tech tree from the techs you need you need to win a domination victory. That is the real difference between the two.

Having said that I have to ask "Where's the pony?" There has to be one here somewhere, why else the interesting set of locks (war and peace)?

I'd like to ask Redbad what date he thinks we might achieve with a diplo victory? And I promise not to hold you to it, exactly... :mischief: :D :p

It seems to me that in going for a domination victory, we have more options. Both from the standpoint of war and peace decisions, based on relative tech achievement, and the greater variety of options heading up the tech tree depending on resources available.

I haven't a lot of diplo experience, so I don't want to rule it out if there is a good reason to give it a try. :crazyeye:

Ok, Checking in.

I have played a bunch of Monarch/prince level games, and know a few tricks.

For starters, have the settler head 1 south, than move to the hill. He still gets there and the possibility of seeing a nice treat is there (Free Scouting is always good.)

For Tech Plan, the best one that I have ever found is beelining to pottery, irrigating a floodplain, and cottaging several others.

First build is without question a worker. Even if the Inca are right next door, they won't attack in our territory for ~60 turns.

AH should be researched ~4th in the tech plan, as bronze is more important to us than ponies. I propose getting pottery, mining, bronze working, AH in that order.

I heard from Brad and he is up for playing but is real swamped for the next few weeks, so he may only make an occassional visit until then. I'm going to send Alan a pm so that he officially adds Brad to the team.

I heard from Brad and he is up for playing but is real swamped for the next few weeks, so he may only make an occassional visit until then. I'm going to send Alan a pm so that he officially adds Brad to the team.
Excellent news, I pray he is doing well.

@Romeo-Why is Bronze more important than ponies? Is it because of forest chops?

Yes, Bronze is more important because it shows us where the Copper is. As Bede's oscillating warfare game shows, chariots are lousy at city capture. Axes are more versatile, enables slavery and enables chops.

These 3 reasons are why I perfer bronze to AH.

Thanks, sounds good to me. :D

How about Victory condition decision, by when do we need to decide? :crazyeye:

If we aim for domination we can ensure the diplomatic win, if it is needed because of map conditions. If we aim for a diplomatic win we won't have the flexibility needed to shift gears to domination.

The diplomatic voting is based on population numbers, straight up. You can get a diplomatic victory by diplomatic means if you build the UN and do your your best to manipulate the opponents from the beginning of the game. Or yopu can get a diplomatic victory by having enough population to control the voting, even if you don't build the UN and don't make any effort to make a lot of friends. (That is why over at RB Civ they have disqualified diplomatic victories if the player controls more than 40% of the world's population.)

I believe, in the distance, I hear a familiar beating of war drums!
:hammer: :salute: :strength:

Now, to build an economy to support and sustain our efforts? :mischief:

I vote for domination.
If for some unknown reason we can't get the land area, i.e. our peace partners are on a "moon" with too much land, we can build enough cities with enough pop to backdoor dominate.

The initial scouting will be absolutely huge here, so make sure you post maps when the turns are completed.

I vote for domination.
I agree with this as well. :D

Do we need to develop a tech plan to keep us focused? I know I get lost in the tech tree at times and lose sight of my objective. :cry:

Well, I think that the first 4 techs are easily outlined. From there, we need to see the terrain. If there is marble near by, we can try a CS slingshot, if not, I would beeline for Kung Fu and the courthouse factor.

After the first 4 techs, we really need to see what we have before we attempt to arbitrarily pick a tech path. If we have no ponies nearby, we need hunting and archery. If we have ponies, we can avoid those techs till they are 1 turn techs. And so on and so forth (Fat Tony Accent)

Domination sounds good to me. At monarch you can still get the CS slingshot if you have enough forest to chop even w/o marble. It helps if you have 2 workers to chop. But we need to concentrate on commerce and research speed.

I noted some dates from our Gator02 game (normal speed) when I was reviewing that game. We established our 2nd city in 2120BC, 3rd city in 1960BC, 4th in 1440BC and finally a 5th in 675BC. With this game being at Epic speed we won't match those dates.

Any thoughts on a roster, I know I do not want to lead us off. I was thinking something along the lines of this.

Romeo (or Redbad)
leif
Bede
Capt
Redbad (or romeo)
Gator

Then slip Brad in the middle of the lineup when he is ready.

Here's a more detailed look at the techpace and when we founded cities. Again this was at normal speed so we need to make adjustments for the dates. We were also isolated at the start and had to wait until around 400AD to meet the neighbors. We semi beelined to Optics to get off our island. I didn't realize until reviewing the game that we only traded for 2 techs, everything else we researched.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Xteam_4SG01_001.jpg

Um, I would have the redbearded fellow go first.

I am really kinda busy a lot, and finding time at the moment is a challenge. Thise week has my wifes B-day, our first anniversery, a friends moving away party, Mothers day and my parents and in-laws anniversery's too.

I have played three test games thus far and have tried to use similar terrain to what we will face, although not exactly, of course. However, the results have been the same. At Epic and Monarch, we have about 100 turns, 1030 BC, to build the Oracle. Turn 101 is 1000 BC, BTW

While chopping will get the Oracle built, the problem lies more with getting Code of Laws researched, which opens up Civil Service. It takes a long time to get enough cottages going and earning more than 2 Gold per turn as we are not financial.

Romeo's idea of building a farm on the first FP and then cottages is a good one, I think, as we can then support some hammers. I would like to see what will be in the rest of the city radius once we build before we figure worker priority.

Also, given our start, with Epic time, it is going to require between 23 and 25 turns to pump out our first worker, so 25 percent of wait goes into making the worker. Development was really slow, so each worker turn must count. We may want to think about an early second worker if the barbs aren't too bad.

My $0.02. :lol:

Here I am again.
Sorry guys for not participating in the discussion up until now. I let myself spent alot of time on the civ3 SGOTM10. But now it's high time to make my contributions here also.

I'd like to ask Redbad what date he thinks we might achieve with a diplo victory? And I promise not to hold you to it, exactly...

Very flattering to read I could say something sensible on that, but I'm afraid I can't. To be honest I don't think my civ4 knowledge comes anywhere near the civ3 one.

On a whole I agree with what has been said sofar. There is however an aspect that worries me.

It don't take much genius to observe that in the gotms untill now the dominations were faster then the diplos. Still they let us have the choice. And as SGOTMs are played much better than single player GOTMs doing domination on monarch isn't that much of a challenge. So if the choice between dom and diplo is meant seriously, I expect some monkeys and bears on our road to domination.
For instance I hardly expect the starting landmass will be large enough to bring us near domination. I wouldn't be suprised also if we're going to require some more advanced knowledge to bring us victory then knowing how to bang heads with an axe or a mace.
The more I think about this the more I think research could be as important as knocking out things that move and aren't ours. Maybe it's an idea to do hendrickszoons library/academy slingshot. We are after all starting in an commerce rich environment.

I'll pop in later again to spam other things I can think of. I have no probs with doing the first turns. Settling SW and starting on a worker would be my choices too.
And I'm glad to hear Bradley is joining. I wasn't just impressed by his civ3 performances but even more by the speed he rose to the top. For me it felt like cruising the highway in my pickup truck, one moment seeing the porsche in the rear mirror and the next disapearing on the horizon.

Edit:
1 monkey or bear I can think of, is that our eternal friend could be quite large. This would seriously handicap our domination attempt. It would even handicap diplo when competing with him/her for the chair.

Can't help spamming more.

On the idea of a large friend. Maybe we have to betray him in order to get him smaller. Something like: bribe him into a war against our eternal foe and then bribe the civs in a war against our friend. That way he has to fight everyone but us.

Btw this kind of startegies would argue against a quick knocking out of multiple AIs. Maybe I'm a little paranoia, but I'm seeking reasons why this game won't be easy. And of course it's in line with Gyathaar evil genius.

Sorry for not checking in before.
I didn't realize this was up. Thought I read somewhere it would go up on the 10th, but that may be when play starts? :confused:

Anyway, my twobits:
On City placement: SW sounds very good.

On Development: I'm unsure about the irrigating idea. I usually go straight to work on cottages, because the extra food from irrigation is negated by unhealth on growth. EDIT: I see the point better on epic, though.

On CS slingshot: I've done quite a few starts on Monarch lately cause that seems to be my level of incompetance atm :sad: ;) I have usually no probs with getting the CS slingshot on a start like this. My tech path is usually focused on getting Pots and BW and then up the Myst tree the quickest way to Priesthood and Writing. I don't bother to get all worker techs cause I've found I often don't make the slingshot then. If we're getting too close to 1000BC, whipping the Oracle may be necassary.

On Bad health: We have 6 FPs. I have neither the guide nor the game in front of me right now, but I suspect we'll have bad health from ~ size 4 with that many FPs. Getting health resources will be a priority. If we work only FPs with cottages and whip for production, we'll have +5 food at size 4, which means a 2-pop whipping at size 6 will disappear just in time for next whipping.

Me again.

In case we would agree on serious research before headbanging, I would propose next research order:
pottery, writing, mining, bronze working, alphabet
With writing we can build a library in our capital and with the library we can set a scientist on the research. The resulting SGP can found an academy in the capitol. (This is the base of Hendrikszoon's lib/academy slingshot)

With the library and the cottages we'll be able to get alphabet in reasonable time researched. Alpha will get us the techs we passed by. Having a second productive or wooded city will put us in a good position to grab the Oracle.

Me again.

In case we would agree on serious research before headbanging, I would propose next research order:
pottery, writing, mining, bronze working, alphabet
With writing we can build a library in our capital and with the library we can set a scientist on the research. The resulting SGP can found an academy in the capitol. (This is the base of Hendrikszoon's lib/academy slingshot)

With the library and the cottages we'll be able to get alphabet in reasonable time researched. Alpha will get us the techs we passed by. Having a second productive or wooded city will put us in a good position to grab the Oracle.
Do you propose to combine this with the CS slingshot?

Of course I don't discover any thing by myself, so here's some results from the monarch-epic GOTM03:

researched pottery to build cottages, then writing to build a library and generate a leader for the academy, then BW to chop and pop rush the library and a settler to found the second city. I left 2 forests near Kyoto temporarily for +1 health, propably a mistake. The settler went NE and founded my second city near the pigs and lots of forests to chop the Oracle (i didn't find marble by that time yet). Then i researched CoL (i see some people researched alphabet before CoL, but i was afraid that the AI will build the Orcale before me, so i took a faster route and researched to Priesthood myself). I researched CoL and completed the Oracle on the same turn in 1025BC and took CS for free as planned.

After getting Writing from the hut I researched Bronze Working and then Alphabet in 1575BC. Via tech trading I got Priesthood (temporary researched Metal Casting) and began Code of Laws. AI didn't trade Monotheism and then Monarchy for a long time but finally I got it (after 1AD).
I built Library in Kyoto (2120BC) and set 2 citizen as scientists. Kyoto was size 4 that time because I had problems with health. Academy was built in 1450BC. Then I built 2 settlers: Osaka founded in 1625BC on the forest hill between Cow and Ivory on the S, Tokyo founded in 1325BC on the forest hill E between of many forests and with Cow in radius

Kyoto build order:
Warrior
Worker
Warrior
Warrior
Worker (chop rush)
Warrior
Settler (chop rush)
Granary
Worker
Library

Osaka build order:
Obelisk
Worker (chop rush)
Oracle (chop rush)

I completed the CS slingshot in 840BC. Osaka switched to GPP mode to get my first Great Scientist, and Kyoto went for commerce.

Of course we have to keep in mind that the forest chops were better then.

In case we would agree on serious research before headbanging, I would propose next research order:
pottery, writing, mining, bronze working, alphabet
With writing we can build a library in our capital and with the library we can set a scientist on the research. The resulting SGP can found an academy in the capitol. (This is the base of Hendrikszoon's lib/academy slingshot)
Welcome Redbad and Capt! :wavey: Nice to see you both here.

I am a little bit worried about this tech order as it leaves only warriors to defend against Barbs for quite a long time. Once barb axemen start showing up, it could get dicey. :eek:

In one test game I followed the order Pottery, Mining and Writing. In this game it required 41 turns to learn the three techs. My guestimate of your suggested tech path would provide us Bronze Working around turn 55 to 60. Then we will need to find copper, claim it, mine it and connect it. :hmm:

I'm not saying we shouldn't try it, I am saying we have to ensure we can defend our capital against Barbs. :eek: It is a risk, but it may be worth taking.

My brother gave me a Brady Games hint book. They describe Epic games as requiring triple the time for research, production and growth compared to quick games. Their entry on Epic is interesting, it says:
"This means that the Epic players must be more careful and decisive about what they do with each turn. Mistakes are quite pronounced in slower game modes. Players who are methodical with their control of cities and units gain a noticable edge in Epic games because of this."
BTW, I found this book interesting because it has quotes from all the test players, many of whom I know from this site. :thumbsup:

EDIT - Also, this puts off Animal Husbandry and the extra health that comes from the cows that will sommewhat offset the effects of FP. :mischief:

What if we comprimise by going Redbad's tech route, but throw in AH first? That way we'll discover and hook up horses and can defend with chariots.
Chariots may not be the best choice for warring, but they'll fend off barbs easily.

What if we comprimise by going Redbad's tech route, but throw in AH first? That way we'll discover and hook up horses and can defend with chariots.
Chariots may not be the best choice for warring, but they'll fend off barbs easily.
Yes, as long as horses are nearby. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is why I thought we needed to work out a tech plan. To assess the risks we're willing to take and try to find a good, workable solution. There seems an endless variety of ways to start this.

Thanks for the great discussion. :D

Yes, I like CB's suggestion.
Btw. my impression with DaveMcW game is that he build all those warriors to fogbust so he wouldn't have to fight barb-axes. If we can keep the fog near our neighbours, or at least far from our cities, risks of being axed by barbs are limited.

Yes, I like CB's suggestion.
Btw. my impression with DaveMcW game is that he build all those warriors to fogbust so he wouldn't have to fight barb-axes. If we can keep the fog near our neighbours, or at least far from our cities, risks of being axed by barbs are limited.
Actually, I think that is a good strategy. However, I'm not sure how fast we can build that many warriors. Those games were played at normal speed, iirc. The Epic games are different and I recommend you do a trial game for the first 100 turns to get a feel for it, if you've not played one before. I have 3 trial games laid out on an excel spreadsheet. If you think it would help, I'd be happy to post it for you to download and review.

EDIT - In those 3 games, I only got the CS slingshot once, because I popped AH from a hut and did not have to research it. I missed the slingshot by around 10 turns in the other games.

Actually, I think that is a good strategy. However, I'm not sure how fast we can build that many warriors. Those games were played at normal speed, iirc.
No, the beauty of GOTM03 is that it's an monarch epic as well. And you can settle on a plainshill beside a river and have 2 floodplains in range. And I think results of good single players are within our capabilities in a SGOTM.

It's a good idea to test it myself. I'll test Dave's opening if I have time this evening.

Well, there are several options here.
I will propose a variation on the Oracle slingshot. Hows about we try an Abet slingshot. It will be easier, worth more beakers than CoL, allow early tech trading, and get us to Lit and the game breaking GL earlier. With the GL, you can pretty much lock up a nice victory. It will be worth 3-5 Scientists and a boatload of research in the mean time.

Going AH first, or even in the first 3 techs is a ridiculus waste!! Here is why. This is working on the premise that everyone believes population is power.
The first thing our worker will do is build a farm on an FP. Then he will cottage a second floodplain. This takes ~ 15 worker turns as I like to road after I finish, (I like mobility, but this can be easily scrapped). With the 13 turns to build the worker, and the 15 turns improving 2 tiles, we couldn't even utilize AH for 28 turns, then the cows would have to be pastured, plus horses. Even on raging barbs, barb troops don't show up for nearly 50 turns. We would have AH by ~ turn 50 in my tech plan, and could beat back the first warriors fairly easily till we get a chariot up.

On worker actions, unless there is gold or silver or gems we don't see I would Farm 1 FP and cottage 2, then Chop another worker or pasture the cows, depending on the tac situation at that time.

I think going for AH early, cows are only part of the equation.
Other part is finding horses and strategize to hook them up.

Please, leave roading out of the equasion. There's really nothing to road in the starting pic. Only road to connect. And connection can be:
trade routes
resources
highways to the front
None of those are required here in the beginning.

We have wheel and Agri. Together with pots, mining and bronze, that's basicly enough as workertechs in the beginning. AH is interesting because it gives an extra health point in the capitol and because we can search for chariots.

Alphabet is needed as it prevents us from having to research less useful techs like the religious stuff. We need the religious stuff because it's becoming mandatory later on and because we want the Oracle.
But building the Oracle in order to get alphabet would make it necessary to research that religious stuff ourselfs. So that looks kind of counterproductive.
And we don't want CoL for the Oracle but Civil Service (CS).

Good post, Redbad. Summed up my thoughts, too :goodjob:

With the 13 turns to build the worker.
On Epic speed, settling on a plains hill and working a FP, a worker requies 18 turns in my trial? :confused:

I think I pretty much agree with Redbad, except I'm not so sure about Alphabet. To research Alphabet requires 672 beakers. To research Myst requires 111, Meditation = 178 and Priesthood = 133; a total of 422 beakers. To get to Code of Laws requires us to research an extra 250 beakers and we have to count on other civs available and ready to trade with us. :crazyeye:

My bad on the timing. I am trying to remember everything and I normally play the normal speed.

I am not so sure that a CS slingshot is needed, but I will defer to people doing the math and the trials. Of course Gyaanthaar might have given everyone else marble and left us holding nothing.
At least we all agree on pottery right away!!!

Maybe we should play until we research pottery, see what we can see and go from there.

I think I pretty much agree with Redbad, except I'm not so sure about Alphabet. To research Alphabet requires 672 beakers. To research Myst requires 111, Meditation = 178 and Priesthood = 133; a total of 422 beakers. To get to Code of Laws requires us to research an extra 250 beakers and we have to count on other civs available and ready to trade with us. :crazyeye:

There just examples leif. We also can get:
fishing
sailing
hunting
archery
polytheism
masonry.

Indeed not every civ wants to trade anything they know. For instance there mostly quite mean with monotheism. But I'm sure we can trade for most of the mentioned techs. And it can be used to influence AI behaviour and it's attitude towards us.

Indeed not every civ wants to trade anything they know. For instance there mostly quite mean with monotheism. But I'm sure we can trade for most of the mentioned techs. And it can be used to influence AI behaviour and it's attitude towards us.
But we must have Priesthood for the slingshot. Also, I am unsure we can get the CS slingshot by taking the time needed to research that extra 250 beakers so early in the game? The test games I played were pretty consistent in that we have about 100 turns to get Code of Laws and Preisthood researched and build the Oracle.

I too, had probs getting the CS slingshot if I diverted too much from the basic plan. Then again, I finished #179 in the first 4otm I tried so I know I've got a lot to learn yet...

Lurker Willow reporting in! :salute:
Looking forward to following this game! :thumbsup:
I enjoy your strategy discussions!
(now if only I had a computer that could run the game...)

(now if only I had a computer that could run the game...)
No sweat, after you score your first big coroporate trial. :p Just remember, we're with you all the way!! :D
I too, had probs getting the CS slingshot if I diverted too much from the basic plan. Then again, I finished #179 in the first 4otm I tried so I know I've got a lot to learn yet...
I know how you feel. Why do you think I am asking so many questions and not giving many answers!! :blush: ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

At least we all agree on pottery right away!!!
Romeo has a point. All this talk about alphabet and the CS-slingshot is premature. If we have only one neighbour for instance, getting alphabet is useless. There is no need to reach a decision on that now.

We do need a decision if we are going for writing after pots and get us the library/academy rush.

Pottery --> Writing and then on to AH for some defense and fencing in the cows?
Sounds like a plan to me ;)

Edit: just thought: we will need BW for slavery. I don't think we're looking at handbuilding a Lib, do we? So how/when do we fit that into our teching?

Edit: just thought: we will need BW for slavery. I don't think we're looking at handbuilding a Lib, do we? So how/when do we fit that into our teching?
And no chopping w/o BW. So pots, writing, mining, BW, AH. ;)
The extra health and the chariots aren't needed immediately anyways.

Other teams have started, shall we give it a go too? I think we agree on the first 2 techs anyway. For discussing what thereafter we will have more info.

Play order:
Redbad
leif
Bede
Bradleyfeanor
Capt
Romeo
Gator

Twenty turns each?

Can I make a suggestion? As we have done with other SGOTM's, why not have RedBad move the settler to the place we all agree to settle, 1 SW, and post a screenie of what is seen, or even better, found the city and then post the screenie. Then we will have some idea of what we are facing. :D

Certainly, if there is a hill full of gold showing on our radius, mining will be our initial tech to research! :rolleyes: What are the chances??? :p

Good idea,
aye, aye, will do :salute: ;)
move SW, found city and post sreenie. I'll upload too so people can take a peek for themselfs.
Am at work now, so it will take another 2 to 2,5 hours .

The usual SG etiquette is that the first player plays 20 turns and then each player fallows with 10 turn sets. I think this is prolly how we'll play it, but the team should come up and confirm this. :crazyeye:
Can't wait for a screenie. :cool:

just thought as this is epic speed maybe there ain't happening not as much in 10 turns as on normal speed

just thought as this is epic speed maybe there ain't happening not as much in 10 turns as on normal speed
Yes, I had PM'ed Gator and suggeted that through the first turn sets we consider playing an initial 30 turns and then 15 turns each. Then we could see how it is going and consider 10 turns. However, I thought we would be playing with 5, not 7. Once through will cover 120 turns, pretty far along.

So, really, we should prolly discuss and see what folks want to do. We'll have some time as you can't post until you get home, I'm looking forward to it Redbad!

BTW - What part of the Netherlands do you live in, if you don't mind? The other half of our family is from there. My Mother and Sister are leaving Monday to visit our relatives in Zutphen, Amersfoort, Rotterdam and Groningen.

Turnsets:
I have no probs with going 30-15-15 and then 10 from there on.
Or 30-15-15-15 so we take advantage of Brad's expertice before putting a n00b at the helm ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3399053#post3399053

As far as turn sets go I would vote for any sequence that puts us on a multiple of 10 at the end of the first round. Epic speed gets some hinky dates at multiples of five.

Leif asked me where I lived, ...well here of course :D
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_1.JPG
turns to research (present setting)
11 mysticism
08 fishing
14 pottery
08 hunting
11 mining
18 animal husbandry
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_2.JPG
we can grow 4, before bumping into happy boundary and 3 for health.
We don't need to pasture the cow to grow 4 as the health boundary only takes 1 extra food, and we have got a rice we could farm.

And, don't worry I've changed the name to Thebes ;)

Edit: save is also available for examination.

Talk about "pastures of plenty" This is overwhelming riches.

So where are the bears and monkeys? In the forests, maybe.

Leif asked me where I lived, ...well here of course :D
I like your neighborhood!!
And, don't worry I've changed the name to Thebes ;)
Why? Not a bad place, really. :p

I still think Pottery should be first. Whether we think Writing should be next, or Mining, we'll need to discuss some more.
Got to go for the moment. :mischief: Setting up someone else's internet connection and decided to pop in to have a look! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice start, too bad that is stone and not marble. But with 7 nearby forest chopping the Oracle shouldn't be a problem. Researching COL in time will be the key.

How powerful can a science city be with 7 FP's? If we settle the 2nd city on the plain hill we could start making cottages, but it's too early to be thinking about that.

Doing 30/15/15/10 or even 30/20/10 is fine. We can leave the second set flexible and see where we are at when we hit 15 turns. If there are pressing questions/issues pause and post, if we're just hitting the spacebar then go ahead and play 20. (Brad probably won't be around for the first round.)

It looks like there's sea and mountains to the east and sea to the south. A warrior at EEEE and a warrior at SSSE wil complete eliminate the possibility of barbs coming from the east or from the south.

We don't know yet how things look in the west and north. My estimation would be that another 3 maybe 4 warriors will be sufficient to minimise the risks of being axed by barbs.

That would free us from wanting Animal Husbandry for barb-control. We still might want AH for pastures of for attacking another civ with chariots, but there is at this moment no forseeable need to.

I think there's wide consensus on starting research for pottery. As pots will be researched within my turnset, I ask the team if we should research writing next.
For reasons stated in earlier posts I'm in favour of this of course.

I really don't know about the writing, as we really don't want to run speacialists in our capitol too much.

Is there a spreadsheet of the advantage of the early academy vs working a cottaged floodplain?

However, I am open to trying new civ ideas, but we will be sorely lacking the production to build a quick library in Thebes, and would most probably have to whip it, which would cause us to go mining and BWing before we can use it anyway.

I am still tempted to say pottery, mining, writing, BW. That way we could at least work a mined hill to get the library out faster.

We debated some similar issues at the beginning of the Gator02 SG. The push there was to get the cottaged FP up and running. Commerce is power is this game.

Doesn't going writing second, help increase our research speed for the CS slingshot? Getting the Academy with some cottaged FP's will be a huge boost. What would be nice is if the capital can work/develope some FP's and then hand them over to a 2nd (Commerce/science) city and build the Academy in the 2nd city.

I may try a few test starts tonight to see how it goes. We're in no rush so if others want to try some test games also. As I've said many times in other SG's "I'd rather play smart than fast."

Doesn't going writing second, help increase our research speed for the CS slingshot? Getting the Academy with some cottaged FP's will be a huge boost. What would be nice is if the capital can work/develope some FP's and then hand them over to a 2nd (Commerce/science) city and build the Academy in the 2nd city.
The problem, as Romeo was talking about, is what are you going to build the Library with? We would at least need Mining to create some hammer to use to build it. No pop rushing or chopping without Bronzeworking. I think we should research at least Mining before Writing.

Mining before Writing as leif points out "You can't make bricks without straw"

Warning: [offtopic]

Congratulations! With 66 player posts and 1 turn played, we lead the pack by a huge margin with 66 posts per turn! :crazyeye: :p

Unfortunately, we're seriously behind on visitor posts. :sad: (I think mine are the only ones :blush: )

But I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoying the strategy discussions! :)

Just tried a test game using Pottery, Writing, Mining, Bronze Working, Animal Husbandry, Myst, Meditation, Priesthood and Code of Laws. No Marble. The start was very similar, settled on a Plains Hill surrounded by FP's.

Darn if I didn't get the slingshot. It took forever to produce a Library, but it did help research once it was completed. However, I went a ways over 100 turns, about 115, so I was lucky based on other tests I had done. Also, with the Oracle, it is very hard to get a Great Scientist, got a Great Prophet instead. May have to plan on producing a Great Scientist in a second city? :eek:

I'll be interested to hear what others experienced. :mischief:

If we decide to go with the lib --> SGL plan, the earlier we can build the lib, the better.
Could you test Pots --> Mine --> Writing with the same start, leif? See how that works out? If we get the lib earlier, I think we should go for it.
With so many food resources, we'll be banging our heads in the happy barrier in no time anyway, so might as well use a pop for a scientist. And we can switch from FP cottages to mines hills as wanted, so getting a good start on working the cottages should be doable anyway.

If you run a scientist for as long as you have the oracle, your chances of getting a SGL will be 60% iirc. We'll have the SGL for a long time before we get the Oracle, so I suppose we're pretty close to 80% SGL chance, which is a nice gamble imhso.

At best, I can't play it again until tonight. However, the start is quite similar, so I will attach the save. There is a gold hill to the north, but to simulate our start, you can settle either on the eastern or southwestern plains hill.

I have to admit that the gold hill was mighty tempting! :lol: :lol: :lol:

In my game I ran 2 scientist once I built the library which I chop rushed. I rarely use pop rushing, but that may change. Because of the FP's I was able to continue to grow, slowly. I also went Pottery, Mining, BW, Writing in that game, but I popped a few techs from huts.

If I stay in town today I'll try out leif's save but as of now we are planning on going to my Grandparents in Melbourne, if we can make it through all the wildfires.

So what are we doing now? :confused:
I would think everyone states his opinion, we agree on one tactic or another, and play. Now it looks to me some of us are playing other games to test one thing or the other, while the rest waits. :sleep:
I can't say it is really thrilling.

This gotm-game by itself will undoubtedly give enough things to discuss as we play it and probably wil have some surprises in store. Playing and researching more or less comparable situations, aren't fun. Maybe that kind of behaviour will get us a few points higher on the sgotm list. It won't get us higher on the have fun list.

Edit:
If it's about the possibility of getting a library, academy and Oracle done, then what does it matter if you succeed in doing it in a different single-player situation. Even if you tested it with this game it wouldn't be the same, as you don't have 6 collegues advicing you on every situation. That it is practical possible, is what I intended to make believeble with my GOTM03 quotes. I do not really care if I or leif or Capt succeed in doing it single player.
If on the other hand people need this kind of elaborations before they can make up their mind on a certain issue, it could become a very, very, very, very long game.

Hear, hear, Redbad.

What has been proposed is well within the bounds of the feasible with the start position we have. What will happen in this game is the only thing that really matters so play on, Macduff!

To sum Pottery/Mining/Bronze/Writing, build a library in the most likely spot. Then through the Oracle techs to Civil Service. Detour for Animal Husbandry if we feel the need for Chariots (only if the barbs are overwhelming us would be my vote). I trust this is a fair distillation of everybody's thoughts

This gotm-game by itself will undoubtedly give enough things to discuss as we play it and probably wil have some surprises in store. Playing and researching more or less comparable situations, aren't fun. Maybe that kind of behaviour will get us a few points higher on the sgotm list. It won't get us higher on the have fun list.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. :goodjob:

This team, when we have played together in Civ3 SGOTM, plays that he who holds the mouse makes the decisions while the rest of us try to help, when needed. (We do like to help) ;) I would say that we have probably helped you enough. :rolleyes:

It seems that we agree that you should play the first 30 turns. You have read all that we have written in our experiments, so I suggest you may take what we have written for what it is worth :mischief: and play on. :cool:

SGOTM is as much about adjusting and innovating as a group, as we go ahead. So, it is up to you to play the first 30 turns as best as you know how. :salute:

Good luck Redbad!! :D

Now let me be the one to make further delay, as it is midnight in the low countries. As I wan't to try to make sane decisions i'll play tomorrow morning :p

Now let me be the one to make further delay, as it is midnight in the low countries. As I wan't to try to make sane decisions i'll play tomorrow morning :p
What ever do you mean? :rolleyes:

You're supposed to wait until midnight to start, and have a couple of shots of Jack Daniels, or I suppose Jagermeister (sp?) might suffice, and then you'll prolly make the best decisions ever. :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW - I have been to your fair city, about 25 years ago, and had a nice time there. :D

What ever do you mean? :rolleyes:

You're supposed to wait until midnight to start, and have a couple of shots of Jack Daniels, or I suppose Jagermeister (sp?) might suffice, and then you'll prolly make the best decisions ever. :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW - I have been to your fair city, about 25 years ago, and had a nice time there. :D
:nono: Don't drink and play. We've been through this on an earlier sgotm.
Don't know about you, but too much :beer: makes me do :suicide: in Civ.
Perhaps :old: people react differently :p [pimp]

Good luck, redbad :thumbsup:

Friends don't let friends play drunk! :rockon:

Well, I didn't advise him to :beer: to excess, only enough to awaken the senses. :rolleyes: You know, help keep the eyes bugged out for that "One more click and then I'll go to bed". :rolleyes: :lol: :lol:
Isn't that what you tell yourself? :hammer2: :badcomp: :sleep:

:hatsoff: Yay Civfanatics, one and all... :p

EDIT - BTW, we're lackeys in this game. Do I really see that team VQ has over 200 posts already! :eek:

You're supposed to wait until midnight to start, ...

You're right, now there's something going on called mothersday :( . Had to sneak out to get the my turnset done. But I succeeded so here's what happened.

00 4000 zzz
01 3970 founded Leeuwarden (correction Thebes): pottery, worker
02 3940 land of the east sealed off, I wonder if that's a coincidence
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_3.JPG
03 3910 zzz
04 3880 zzz
05 3850 land of the north looks cold, I forgot to bring my coat so will investigate SW
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_4.JPG
06 3820 zzz --- 10 3700 zzz
11 3670 oops, pussycat
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_5.JPG
12 3640 survived, but healing will take 9 turns, consider healing in own culture but reject it
13 3610 zzz
14 3580 zzz
15 3550 pottery --> mining
16 3520 zzz
17 3490 Cathy emerges from the SW
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_6.JPG
Don't know is she's our eternal friend (lucky us with such a good looking friend :drool: ) I couldn't think of anything else then wish her head on a pole, in order to establish this.
18 3460 zzz
19 3430 Thebes: worker --> warrior, worker cottage SE floodplain
20 3400 zzz
21 3370 warrior healed and on his way again
22 3340 zzz
23 3310 zzz
24 3280 oops another pussycat
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_7.JPG
25 3250 survived again, promote to combat1, healing will take 2 turns; mining --> bronze working
26 3220 zzz
27 3190 our first happy resource, worker cottage --> cottage
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_8.JPG
28 3160 zzz
29 3130 zzz
30 3100 Thebes warrior2 --> warrior, take a peek in Cathy's backyard
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_9.JPG
I left the movement of warrior2 for my successor to decide. Here are end pics.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_12.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Redbad_sgotm01_11.JPG

You're right, now there's something going on called mothersday. :( Had to sneak out to get the my turnset done. But I succeeded so here's what happened.
If it isn't civ appreciation day, I usually miss it, but please don't tell my mother! :blush:

Looks good so far. I'll have a longer look and post some thoughts and some screenies. The Stone on plains hill will give us 3 hammers, which I think we'll need. The terrain is tight and we may be able to avoid Barb attacks by setting out 2 or 3 warriors on hills.

There are a couple of pretty nice city sites but I should look south into the fog and see if anything pops up. We have about 14 turns, iirc, before bronze, and a search for copper.

How long do we want to wait before we produce a settler? Given this terrain, we may need to pop an early one to block Cathy baby from getting too close, too soon. :eek:

I'd say have in total 3 floodplains cottaged and then chop ourselfs a settler and a worker. Blocking Cathy is important and so are the gems.

As the place looks now, copper will only be important if we want to knock Cathy over.

I'd say have in total 3 floodplains cottaged and then chop ourselfs a settler and a worker. Blocking Cathy is important and so are the gems.

As the place looks now, copper will only be important if we want to knock Cathy over.
The only thing about chopping is that it looks like we'll need to keep a couple of forests around to provide some health, won't we? Right now we're getting a +2 health from forests, and that will provide a pop of 4 citizens before sickness starts in. As I understand it, each forest tile provides a +0.5 health point, rounded down.

Edit - As blocking Cathy is important, then we will need a city planted near her. I have attached a proposed city location, although it is kind of far from home. That is, if we can beat her to it! :rolleyes:

The second attchement is of a city site north of Thebes, a nice production city, once we have Animal Husbandry.

@1 one south makes the second gems workable. I think the commerce from the gem is worth more then the food from the sea.

@2 one east would be my choice but I have no strong feelings about it

I wouldn't worry much about the chopping. The lost health points only cost 1 food each and we have some 4 different health resources in the neighbourhood.

btw I would like an early seasided city so we can send a workboat to the east

Edit:
Might be an idea to mine stonehill. I don't think we need the stone shortly and it will give 2 hammers more.

I like mining the stone hill early as well.

I concur on ignoring the health effects of forests.

I also want 2 gems in the workable tiles. The give 7 commerce each, which is absolutely awesome!!

Concur with R&R on city locations and we definitely need to get a boat in the water at our earliest convenience. Health effects of forests this early are not critical and they will frequently grow back if you do not otherwise develop the field and that includes roads.

We have about 14 turns, iirc, before bronze, and a search for copper.
Oh yeah, it should go down as Thebes grows and the cottage finishes.

@1 one south makes the second gems workable. I think the commerce from the gem is worth more then the food from the sea.

@2 one east would be my choice but I have no strong feelings about it

I wouldn't worry much about the chopping. The lost health points only cost 1 food each and we have some 4 different health resources in the neighbourhood.

btw I would like an early seasided city so we can send a workboat to the east

Edit:
Might be an idea to mine stonehill. I don't think we need the stone shortly and it will give 2 hammers more.
I won't get all this done in my turn set. If we want the 2 gems in the city borders and don't think the food is important enough, shouldn't we settle 2 south of site #1. That border is prolly Cathy's capital and will surely move us off the second gem, unless we take her capital! :evil:

Once we have a third cottage, mine the stone, then chop, or chop a settler and then mine the stone? :crazyeye:

Actually looking some more I think 1SE is better then 1S.
@your remark:
it's a civ3 solution: the tiles next to your city are yours, unless ...
In civ4 it's different. The tile belongs to the civ with the most culture present at the tile. And she will only get culture there if she expans again. As she is creative I expect that to happen in about 6 turns. (btw best to have our warrior save from being trapped) From then she'll push 6 cpt to the southern gem (2 for creative, 2 for palace + 2 1000 year bonus). We will get that tile if we push more culture on it. As the tiles are jungled we're in no particular hurry. So it's enough to push more culture in the medium run. We're creative too, that make 2 cpt. if we add say a monastry and a theatre we'll be pushing 2 + 2 + 3 = 7. (Or obelix, temple, library: 2 + 1 + 1 + 3) Or maybe confusianism is established there. Anyway it doesn't matter much if you settle next to it or not.

We have to make a stop in the woods on our way to stonehill. So maybe chop, mine, chop, ... ;)
btw. do chop only the forest within the culture, as forest outside it won't give much hammers

OK, thanks. I've got it and will give it a shot. ;) :D :rolleyes:

Ok, we have a little problem. I have played 13 turns and Cathy has an Archer and a Settler heading for our chosen spot, which also happens to have Copper there as well! :eek:

I don't think she has anywhere else to go, but I am unsure of it as I couldn't get south of her.

We have 2 Warriors in the area and a Settler cooking, but it still has 20 turns to go, although we are also ready to chop a forest.

I think we have 2 options.
1. Declare war on her and prevent that settler from settling, if we can. We have nearly the same power rating but I am unsure what future problems this will create.

2. Let her build her city and use the settler we're building to cut her off and take it from her later, once we have Horses, hopefully.

I'll attach a screenie and the save for comment.

You really have no choice but to concede that spot for now. Let her spend the worker turns clearing the jungles and mining the gems, and as you say take it from her later.

This little development makes it even more important to see what is on the other side of those mountains in the east.

You really have no choice but to concede that spot for now. Let her spend the worker turns clearing the jungles and mining the gems, and as you say take it from her later.

This little development makes it even more important to see what is on the other side of those mountains in the east.
While I only have a couple of turn remaining to complete my set, is it more important to cut off Cathy (I think so) or to get a coastal town to get a boat in the water? Alhtough, I imagine we could do both?

I am sure hoping there will be some horses around? :crazyeye:

Looking at this next options can be considered:

1 declare war
The settler and the archer will most probably retreat. Even though the archer is stronger it will most likely hold on to his primairy task of escorting the settler. The settler will fear our warriors. However I don't like this as it is counter productive. We will both go into war mode without any chance victory any time soon. And we may ever fear Cathy as Moscow is suprisingly developped.

2 let her settle
I estimate her to settle near the gems. That would still leave the copper within reach. If we're unlucky we might cultural battle for it. Anyway as Bede states Cathy can make a headstart in developping the lands. So this would be my choice.

I am however becoming in favour of taking out Cathy real soon. There just isn't enough space for both to develop. Maybe it's a good idea to switch research towards iron working. Swordsmen are better in capturing cities and we need it to develop the gems anyway. And we have a new shot at a strategic resource.

Putting us in a confined space with a developped neighbour and having only 1 (correction: 2) happy resource (as it looks now) are the first monkey and bear on our road to domination ;)

While I only have a couple of turn remaining to complete my set, is it more important to cut off Cathy (I think so) or to get a coastal town to get a boat in the water? Alhtough, I imagine we could do both?

I am sure hoping there will be some horses around? :crazyeye:
Make that three:
1 cutt off Cathy
2 be coastal
3 at productive location
Maybe 1N of the copper.

horses or iron :)

I agree that Cathy needs to go. If this is the case, the question is how long do we have and how valuable is the CS slingshot. Switching to Iron Working will, most likely, end our chances at the slingshot.

I have fought Swords versus Axes and it is a tough fight. Axes have an advantage versus melee units, don't they?

So, we need to cut Cathy off, try to contain her until we can take her on.

EDIT - Do we allow Writing to complete?

I'm just stating ideas, in honour of our creative trait. ;)

I was as you might expect in favour of getting writing and a library asap. However there is not much point in getting writing if we want to build axes and no library. And the other way around: if we want to take out Cathy asap it's not smart to start building a library.

The slingshot doesn't need to be CS it can also be for example machinery.

We have reached a crossroads, I think. Now we need to decide on the strategy for the next period in time. I only tried to throw in some ideas. It doesn't mean I'm in favour of them all. In fact I'm not sure at all at the moment and like to hear what our teammates have to say.

The odds are that the Russians will not train up axes as city defenders, but rather archers, and send any axemen they may have as attacking regiments. Sowrds against archers are a better fight attacking a city and properly promoted archers can hold off axes in a city attack.

Even if switching to Iron Working kills the CS slingshot we can still try for Metal Casting as an Oracle technology. I would go ahead and finsih Writing though as that will open up the Alphabet ot Literature path as well.

I don't know. I've met axes in city defenses enough times to not rely on swords alone when I'm on the war path. That said, we can always throw a few axes into the mix if we have iron nearby.

The beauty of getting AH next is that we can still (imhso) accomplish our other objectives of CS slingshot and writing --> lib --> SGL gambit. I think we're comprimising if we're going IW now, which is ok if you want to ensure a victory, but not good if you want to win sgotms.
There's also the unit cost to be considered. Iirc, War chariots are extremely cheap at 20 shields a piece. Much better than 35 for an axe or 40 for a sword. Two war chariots should be able to do the same job as one sword.

Disclaimer: I'm probably the least experienced player on the team and have yet to win a military victory on monarch. I feel like I have to post to keep the spam count up :p

OK, save is uploaded HERE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Xteam_SG001_BC2650_01.Civ4SavedGame).

Tunr log:
Pre-flight Turn 30 – 3100 BC
Warrior2 SW.
Press the red button.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 31 – 3070 BC
Warrior2 SE. Warrior1 E.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 32 – 3040 BC
Warrior2 SE, finds not much useful down there, to the south of Thebes.
Warrior1 SE, can see Moscow, it has 2 Archers in it, no promotions.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 33 – 3010 BC
Warrior1 NW. Warrior2 NW.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 34 – 2980 BC
Warrior1 W. Warrior2 SW.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 35 – 2950 BC
Warrior1 W. Warrior2 SW, breaks fog and finds more jungle. :rolleyes:
Worker1 NW and starts another Cottage.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 36 – 2920 BC
Warrior2 W. Warrior1 SW, finds that Catherine already has some gems. Greedy! :p

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 37 – 2890 BC
Warrior1 SW, finds the ocean. Warrior2 NW.

IBT
Catherine must have expanded as Redbad predicted.:goodjob: Warrior1 got thrown back next to Warrior2!

Turn 38 – 2860 BC
Warrior1 NW. Warrior2 NW.

IBT
Our borders expand.

Turn 39 – 2830 BC
Warrior1 NW. Warrior2 W.
We see a wounded Bear 5 tiles NNE of Thebes.
MM Thebes by placing a citizen on the Stone/plains hill.

IBT
Thebes Warrior => Settler.

Turn 40 – 2800 BC
Warrior3 fortifies in Thebes.
MM Thebes so a citizen is working the cow, it gives us 1 extra GPT. Settler in 22 turns.
Warrior2 N. Warrior1 W.

IBT - ZZZzzz, at least I got lots of :sleep:

Turn 41 – 2770 BC
Warrior2 SW. Warrior1 SW.

IBT - ZZZzzz

Turn 42 – 2740 BC
Warrior1 S onto hill we want to settle on. Warrior2 E.
Worker finishes Cottage, MM Thebes so citizens are working the 3 FP Cottaged tiles.

IBT
We discover Bronze Working, start Writing at 100%, due in 13 turns.
We revolt to Slavery, no turn loss.
Hinduism is founded in Moscow. Cathy got religion!! :cringe:

Turn 43 – 2710 BC
Worker1 NW into forest.
Copper is located near our selected city site.
Warrior2 N. Warrior1 SW, sees a Russian Settler headed for our site with an Archer.

Decide to save game and consult with team.

OK, restart game. Decide to leave Writing as researched. I think Capt made a good point. That is why allow Cathy to throw us off course. Perhaps we can get the copper, depending upon where she settles. So, let’s see what happens before we knee-jerk.

IBT
Catherine’s Settler and Archer move in with our Warrior1, sitting on a hill next to the Gem Tiles.

Turn 44 – 2680 BC
Retreat Warrior1 away from Russia, 1 tile NE.
Warrior2 stays put.
Worker1 starts a chop, completes in 5 turns.

IBT
Buddhism is founded in a distant land.
Cathy settles in a most advantageous spot, The Copper will be left open for us to claim, if we can get there before she launches another settler.

Turn 45 – 2650 BC
Warrior1 north to proposed city site. Warrior2 stays put, but can be moved if next player desires.

After Action Report:
Well, you all know about some excitement. Cathy has settled a second city.

We are working on a settler, 17 turns to go. Our worker is chopping a forest to support the settler build. We are currently producing 16 beakers per turn at 100% research. We have zero gold in the treasury.

Our research remains Writing, with 11 turns remaining. Our Cottaging is starting to come alive. One is producing 3 GPT as a Hamlet (26 turns to Village), the second one is producing 2 GPT, 4 turns to a hamlet, and the last one is also producing 2 GPT, 12 turns to hamlet.

Oh, and beware a roaming bear NE of Thebes. ;)

Good luck Bede! :thumbsup:

Got it for 15

For discussion:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/XTeam_2560BC_Cathy_Settles0000.jpg

I like red for the choke but yellow has more workable ground.

Red Dot. It has 2 food bonus's to work all the hills. Yellow dot couldn't work all its land anyway.

Red Dot. It has 2 food bonus's to work all the hills. Yellow dot couldn't work all its land anyway.
Yep, I agree with that. :goodjob:

I like 1N of the copper :D

I like 1N of the copper :D

I think I see why(the defense bonus), but please explain. It gives up the access to the eastern waters and is off the chike point. What am I missing?

I think I see why(the defense bonus), but please explain. It gives up the access to the eastern waters and is off the chike point. What am I missing?
Looking at Redbad's proposal, I can see the wisdom in 1N of the copper. It includes both food resources and allows a city site with more tiles free of from the effect of cultural borders, thus allowing greater production. The defensive bonus is a benefit as well. And settling on the plains hill give an extra hammer production. Once we take the Russian city, the two cities should have enough room to use most of their tiles without sharing, save 2 tiles.

I'm not, necessarily, advocating Redbad's suggestion, but I can see the merits of the idea. Having a city that allows us to move between the oceans, a Panama Canal, has merits as well.

Hope that helps.

Yes, leif summed it pretty much all up. :goodjob:
Oh yeah, and like in the times of the VOC, I'm hoping there is a north passage to the east.

FWIW - my Civ intuition says go for a canal city (red dot). But that's based on years of playing Civ I, Civ II, and Civ III; I have no Civ IV experience. :crazyeye:

I think I like the red dot. The canal feature is nice plus it starts with more food. The plain hill N of copper will have limited food until it expands but will have a higher defense.

But if we plan on eliminating the English we shouldn't be worried about the defense of our city but of the first English city we capture. That is where the counterattack will be focused at.

After counting the hammers the 1N of the the copper is our better choice.

For your viewing and discussing pleasure:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/DotMap.jpg

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Xteam_SG001_BC2200_01.Civ4SavedGame)

New flash!
Turn 45, 2650 BC: Huayna Capac converts to Buddhism! And Catherine is already chanting Hare Krishna.

Bad dudes in the west

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/2500_0000.jpg

but he disappears into the fog, then reappears between Thebes and the new town site


Another news flash

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/2470_0000.jpg


Here comes the bad boy again
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/2440_0000.jpg

Note where Catherine's borders lie.

Our two brave warriors move onto the hill and into the forest because I want the sum'gun to commit himself.

He dies in 2440 BC

Writing right on time
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/2320_0000.jpg

And I start on Animal Husbandry for horses and pastures as Iron Working would take way too long and if we can keep Cathy away from the copper we should be able to nail her with properly promoted chariots or horse archers.

Cathy would like to prowl around our territory
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/2260_0000.jpg
but I turn her down for now.

Turn 59, 2230 BC: Memphis has been founded and starts on a library for the cultural battle with Catherine. She has already swallowed up the cows.

I would have started a fishing boat but we don't know how yet and I want to get Animal Husbandry for the cows and the horses, if any.

Thebes is equipping a worker so the first worker can boogey on over to Memphis and start some development there.

The satellite view

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a371/doconor/C4SGOTM1/2200_0000.jpg

Good going, Bede. And right of course not open the borders, Cathy already can't enter "our" parish. :goodjob:

For the next session I would suggest some idea's
Health in Memphis is horrible as it's not on a river. It also has no food surplus, so getting some health in there would be handy. If we press fishing in our research schedule first we could build a workboat or 2, to develop the seafood and to visit the east.
I don't know if we want to cultural battle Cathy for a cow. Maybe better to switch the library to a barracks. We then later could ask her to leave and just take the town and the cow (and the gems ;) ).
Thebes worker could move to Memphis to mine/road the copper and after that mine/road the plainshill NE of Memphis.
The new worker could start mine/road stonehill, road 1W of Thebes and then pasture Thebes cow.
(We need these roading to connect a traderoute between Thebes and Memphis).
Thebes could start building a library after the worker.

Nice work Bede! :goodjob:

As a junoir member in knowledge and experience, I would like to ask some questions.
On research, I think we should discuss the merits of the CS slingshot in fast domination? The reason I say this is that in getting CS, as an expensive tech, we are that much closer to Maces. In this case, it looks like it may be more important to get a sea going vessel so we can get off this rock, after defeating Cathy, of course. If we begin researching other topics off the line of the techs necessary for The Oracle and Code of Laws, then what does that do to us and am I focusing too much on the slingshot? :hmm: I ask because 60 turns are gone and we prolly have 40 to 50 left before someone is going to build The Oracle.

Second, once AH is done, we can increase our health by 1 point by getting the cows patured. Can't the clam wait until we claim Cathy's house?

If we want to attack Cathy any time soon, don't we need a road to from Thebes to Memphis, get the copper mined and roaded and have Thebes start building Axes?

The hardest part of playing C IV thus far for me is balancing the strategic needs, the focus on victory condition if you will, against the immediate needs of techs for health or happiness or military.

The other requirement I think we have to balance is getting Galleys in case we have to attack at some point on the other side of those mountains. We seem to be getting too many requirements, and I think that is by design. What are the most important things we need to do?

Oh, and I played with Bede's map a little bit. The cities Bede placed are good, I added a couple more.

In civ4 we can't just keep building cities, as the upkeep will bring your economy down. So each city we found will have to add something. And as citynumbers will be low, specialising them pays off.

If we look at the cities we now have, we can make the next observations:

Thebes:
food rich, hammer rich, commerce rich, on the river, adding rice, cow and stone

Memphis:
food adequate, hammer rich, commerce adequate, adding copper and clam (it doesn't really matter if Memphis gets the cow as we already have one near Thebes)

If we want to make most of this situation:

Thebes:
Cottage the floodplains, mine the hills, make Thebes large. With the cottages Thebes will be a good commercecity. With the hillmines we can temporairly switch to quick building something. Only problem is that growth is restricted by happy border. More happy will require either:
gems (Cathy has them)
sugar (needs calendar)
temple (needs religion)
Cathy can provide the first and the last, so it is sensible to take her out.

Memphis:
Mine the copper and the plainhills. If we don't anything about it Memphis can grow to size 2 working the copper and a plainshill making 10 hammers. Adding improved clam (1 health, 4 food) and a trade route with Thebes (cow = 1 health) we can let Memphis work the copper, clam and 2 plainshills making 14 hammers.

For the short term goal it will be best to take Cathy out. So Memphis size 4 building axes and Thebes size 5 building axes.
Consequence are:
improve the clam
improve the cow
grow cities to sizes 5 and 4
establish traderoute between the cities

As Thebes is still size 3 and we don't have a copper connection we can either build a barracks or a library until we can switch to military.
As Memphis is size 1 and a slow grower we need improved clam asap. In the meantime we could build a barracks.

Building a second workboat is strategicly important as we could meet some civs in the east, which vastly improves our trading position.

Indeed for a fast domination we're hopelessly sidetracking. But I don't think we can get anywhere near domination without researching. And research will be hindered by Cathy as she has the gems. And Cathy won't be a research partner until she meets other people. As long as she only knows us she'll think her techs are monopolies and will nearly trade none with us.

We'll have to make choices as we can't have it all. But some things are strategicly important and some are tactical important.
Taking out Cathy and having Thebes for a research center are strategic (for the longterm important) decisions. Building the Oracle will only give us shortterm benefit. So I'd say getting the Oracle whilst having to neglect the other 2 is a bad trade off. Taking out Cathy early and having good research in Thebes will make up for a lost Oracle.

The game we now have is very unlike GOTM03 as long as we have only 1 neighbour. Knowing one is knowing none: we have to do our own research.

The hardest part of playing C IV thus far for me is balancing the strategic needs, the focus on victory condition if you will, against the immediate needs of techs for health or happiness or military.
Very true, and because of that it's the most fun part. :king:

:clap:

what oft 'twere said, but ne'er so well expressed.

Thanks for limning the choices we face. You have stated the solution I was groping for. If marble were handy the choice might be different but it isn't.

Taking out Cathy and having Thebes for a research center are strategic (for the longterm important) decisions. Building the Oracle will only give us shortterm benefit. So I'd say getting the Oracle whilst having to neglect the other 2 is a bad trade off. Taking out Cathy early and having good research in Thebes will make up for a lost Oracle.
Just a little food for thought, the CS slingshot also brings us Bureaucracy, which increases the hammers and commerce by 50% in the capital. That will boost strategic research and help build plenty of military units, if we can wait that long before we take out Cathy. :D

Just a little food for thought, the CS slingshot also brings us Bureaucracy, which increases the hammers and commerce by 50% in the capital. That will boost strategic research and help build plenty of military units, if we can wait that long before we take out Cathy. :D
Yes, it's an excellent strategy, I think. Thebes will profit enormously from bureaucracy and we can upgrade our axes to maces who will have no problems taking out Cathy.
So, let's do some math (all approximations of course)
Thebes on max production is at size 5 working the cow, stonehill, rice, plainshill and grasshill, resulting in 17 hammers per turn. Along with 2 forestchops will build the Oracle in 11 turns.
Getting the techs:
6 turns animal husbandry
7 turns mysticism
11 turns meditation
8 turns priesthood
So shortest way to the Oracle looks like 32 turns research + 11 turns building = 43 turns in all.
But can the other things also be done within that timeframe:
Improving terrain: 3 hillmines is 3 times (1 + 6) = 21 turns, 1 ricefarm 8 turns and 1 cowpasture 6 turns, in all 35 turns. So with a little help from the next worker the improvements can be on time.
Can we research Code of Law before the Oracle is finished. We're spending min 11 turns building the Oracle. We can't research CoL in that timeframe. That means research has to be stepped up.

My conclusion would be: if we want to go for the CS slingshot, which in itself is an excellent idea, we have to step up research first and then production. First build another 2 foodplain cottages and chop us an library. After the cottages and chopping we can do the above mentioned other improvements.
Memphis can concentrate on barracks and axes.

I, obviously, agree with you. :D

I am going to attach a screen shot of Thebes. I think we need to imporove the tiles outlined in yellow, build the roads in white and work the tiles, at size 5, marked with red X's.

The Rice and Cow will give us plus 1 health each, so we won't need as much food. The Cottaged flood plain tiles will need to be used as much as possible to maintain research rate for Code of Laws. The Hammers will be needed to build The Oracle. We're going to be pushing the limits on building it, but I do think it is worth the effort.

Thanks for the picture as it is helpful in the discussion.
Some comments:
The cow is on the river (can be seen by the 1 riverbank commerce it has) As it is the same river that Thebes is build on this means that the cow is connected as soon as it is pastured. It is in general better first to improve and then, if necessary, to road. Not only can the improvement be worked on earlier, but one can also check if it's connected or not. In this situation there is no doubt, but in other situations it can be suprising.
Consequence of this is that it doesn't need roading. Not roading the cow means the connecting road to the rice can run over the SW plainshill, which will make connection with Memphis easier.
A weakness in your plan is that it does allow neither max research nor max production. Max research would be working 5 cottages, max production as described in my previous post, means working no cottages at all. Advantage of your plan is that it needs less improvements. As our worker capacity is sufficient we don't need to be mean on that aspect.

As I think my role in this community is to complicate things ;) I want to bring another possibilty to your attention.

We are short on happy-resources but we have stone. Building the Pyramids will allow us to switch to the represenation-civic. Representation gives us 2 happies in our 5 largest cities. So Thebes can grow to 7 and Memphis to 6.

The math:
Pyramids: 675 hammers. Maxing production but having a quarry on stonehill will give 16 hammers. As we're building Pyramids it's doubled to 32. That gives 21 turns to build. As the hammers from chopped forests also double (and we have some 5 forests in our culture) we can throw that in as well. I expect each forest to give on average enough hammers save one turn on the build. That would mean 16 turns to build the Pyramids. However as masonry requires 9 turns to research we will not have al the improvements in place nor the population in Thebes to run max. So it will require some extra turns.

It could even be combinated with building the Oracle as buiding the pyramids will be parallell to researching the necessary techs for the Oracle. We can run both the represenation and the bureaucracy civic. And finally Pyramids give great engineer points. A great engineer can build us a third wonder.

How is that for an extra complication :D

In SP games, I often work only FPs to the happy limit and only then switch one FP to a 4-5 shileld hill.
This usually means I will whip the last shields of the Oracle to make sure I get it, as I'm running close to the others finishing it...

Often I have one unhappy citizen on the last turns of the Oracle. That way I can whip one more citizen (if unhappy limit is not an even number).

Actually Redbad, I use another system for the building of your core city.

Step 1, get a religion. We will get CoL (Presumably at first)
Step 2, Revolt to it. We are spiritual, a real no brainer here.
Step 3, Build a temple. Happy limit is now 7 instead of 5.
Step 4, Run a priest and or some scientists to get either a shrine or academy up ASAP.

The Pyramids requires an additional tech we don't have time for, so I would skip it. We can make the research grow faster by growing up Thebes to size 5 and using the library and or scientists. I like to overgrow my capitol into unhappiness and then whip the rest of the oracle myself.

I say press on full speed ahead at improving thebes with both workers. Memphis can wait. Our strategy is predicated on a really strong early capitol, and there is no reason to ever dilute this. I would use both workers to cottage 1 more FP, chop a library and hook up resources as needed, and only then start moving both to memphis.
I hopefully won't need to use my math skills to prove that having both workers upgrade thebes is far more important and beneficial than working on memphis.

All that being said, The pyramids could be very handy to build right after the Oracle.

Good discussion. However, imho, the problem with getting the slingshot to Civil Service will be learning Code of Laws in time. I think a Library is a must and we may have to chop one with what we have. Then, if production lags behind on the Oracle because we'll need to work the FP cottages to keep the gold up, and thus the research moving along, we can always whip it in the end.

EDIT - @Redbad - Yes, what I propose is a compromise. But I think it will be needed in order to both research to CoL and production of the Oracle.

I think the only way we'll get it is to maximize research. Would it be wise to switch Memphis from Library to worker? Then while the Library is being built, we can improve the tiles over there, then build a road from both ends?

The Pyramids would be nice, perhaps after the CS slingshot, if we manage to pull it off. Priorities, Redbad, priorities! :lol: :lol: :lol:

EDIT - BTW, who's up? :mischief:

Step 3, Build a temple. Happy limit is now 7 instead of 5.
A temple makes 1 happiness in 1 city, representation makes 2 happiness in 5 cities. The Pyramids, when having stone, cost 3 temples and provide the happiness of 10 temples.

@Redbad - Yes, what I propose is a compromise. But I think it will be needed in order to both research to CoL and production of the Oracle.
I can think of 3 reasons why this isn't a good idea :p

1
What will we do when we are in a hurry to research something, take the hammers along? Or when we're in a hurry to build something, take the commerce along? O.t.o.h. wanting to build the Oracle the moment we've researched CoL is only a matter of timing the switch from commerce to hammers.

2.
When we are researching the needed techs for the Oracle we have, apart from a library, precious little to build thats urgent. So working 4 or 5 floodplain cottages during that time will get us the Oracle sooner.

3.
We want to build a library. The library is a research amplifier. Having more commerce tiles means a better return on the library.

I think the only way we'll get it is to maximize research. Would it be wise to switch Memphis from Library to worker? Then while the Library is being built, we can improve the tiles over there, then build a road from both ends?
As I stated above: the library is a research amplifier. As long as we don't work cottages in Memphis a library is of no use. At the moment Thebes is pushing 16 beakers and Memphis 0. Having a library in Thebes adds 4 beakers, a library in Memphis will add ....
I don't think we should get Memphis get in the commerce business, as it will never become good at it. It can however become a good production city. So I think it's better having Memphis build a barracks and military then building a library. With the military we can attack Cathy, and capture some cities. And these captured cities provide commerce, etcetera .

Setting Memphis to produce a worker now, will cost 18 turns as Memphis can only produce 3 hammers and 2 food. Consequence will be no growth for 18 turns. Having Memphis build an worker when it is size 2 working 2 improved tiles wil get us a worker in 9 turns.
Thebes is size 3 and will be for some time to come. It already can work 3 improved tiles. So it is at the moment more economical to assist Memphis with a worker as Memphis is working an unimproved tile.

Roster:
Capt - Up
Romeo - On Deck
Gator
Redbad
leif
Bede - just played
Bradleyfeanor - waiting for his return

Sorry, I've been behind in my roster duties.

Good discussion. I think Redbad makes a good point on no library in Memphis, working the cottaged FP will help us along the Oracle path quicker than a library in Memphis. Oracle can be started once we learn Priesthood so timing is not a problem.

Are we running a scientist of 2 in Thebes to help get the GP for the Academy?

I can think of 3 reasons why this isn't a good idea :p
I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately, getting the slingshot is not a proposition of getting research done or getting the Oracle done. It is a problem that requires, as you said, timing. And so we should look at how to best make the timing work. If, for example, it will require 25 turns to research CoL's and 15 turns to build The Oracle, then I think we need to sacrifice some hammers to get gain commerce. Or, we can do as you say and make all commerce and a few hammers and switch at whatever tipping point in time there is to make it come out at the same moment. I have done this a few times through chops or pop rushes. However, the critical variable will be the research side, I think.

In many ways, I think we are saying much the same thing, just wrestling around a bit as we go. :D
As I stated above: the library is a research amplifier. As long as we don't work cottages in Memphis a library is of no use. At the moment Thebes is pushing 16 beakers and Memphis 0. Having a library in Thebes adds 4 beakers, a library in Memphis will add ....
I don't think we should get Memphis get in the commerce business, as it will never become good at it. It can however become a good production city. So I think it's better having Memphis build a barracks and military then building a library. With the military we can attack Cathy, and capture some cities. And these captured cities provide commerce, etcetera .
When I spoke of focusing on commerce and research, my only consideration was Thebes. I understand your point about the worker as well, and it is a good point. Perhaps a Rax in Memphis then? So when a worker finally gets over there, we can start on Axes?

Thebes is size 3 and will be for some time to come. It already can work 3 improved tiles. So it is at the moment more economical to assist Memphis with a worker as Memphis is working an unimproved tile.

Thebes is 2 turns away from completing another worker. We need to have another improved tile ready for it when it grows. I'd chop 1 or 2 of the outer forests to help rush the library in Thebes. Increasing the science output should be our focus right now. At the current science output we're 77 turns from researching COL, which won't get the job done.

I think I'd keep both workers in the Thebes area until Memphis expands. There is not much food or commerce to be gained in Memphis until it expands. I agree that Memphis should be turned into a production center ASAP. Definately switch it's build to a barrack. We need to be prepared for the onslaught of barbs axes as we near the completion of the Oracle.

Ooops, sorry. I thought I was on deck, not up. Anyway, couldn't play today cause 17th of May is Norway's national holiday and it's been parades and junk food for me all day [party]

If someone else wants to pick it up, please do so. I'll be online catching up on the thread and maybe throw in the brief posting tomorrow, but have a busy day of meetings so I'll be home late and won't be able to play until Friday night at the earliest (~48 hours from now).

Ooops, sorry. I thought I was on deck, not up. Anyway, couldn't play today cause 17th of May is Norway's national holiday and it's been parades and junk food for me all day [party]
Hope you feel better this morning!! :rolleyes: ;) :p

Constitution Day sounds lke fun. Sort of like America's Fourth of July. Did you have a barbacue and eat lots of hot dogs and ice cream?? :cool: I'll be over next year!! :mischief:

Good luck getting a Library chopped and a keeping an eye on Cathy, not a bad job, eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hope you feel better this morning!! :rolleyes: ;) :p

Constitution Day sounds lke fun. Sort of like America's Fourth of July. Did you have a barbacue and eat lots of hot dogs and ice cream?? :cool: I'll be over next year!! :mischief:

Good luck getting a Library chopped and a keeping an eye on Cathy, not a bad job, eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually the weather was so bad that we bbq'ed in the garage :lol:
I always have too much to eat on 17th of May and this year was no exception. We're all married with kids, though, so no excessive :beer:
My wife and I had 7 couples over for the bbq, 16 adults and 14 kids ranging from 4 weeks to 6 years. We had planned on making use of the garden, but because of the weather we stayed indoors all evening. Still, went remarkably well considering :thumbsup:

I'm looking forward to playing my turns and I'll try not to let you down. How many shall I play?

Well Red, here is why the temple gives 2 happies instead of 1. To build a temple, you have to have a religion. The religion gives the happy, then plus 1 to the temple.

Plus I believe that we have half-priced temples, which give nice culture and open up a priest specialist allowing us to get our shrine that much faster.

Any deviation from the CS plan right now would really hurt us, and I would advise against it with all my being. (Well at least all of my being I can push through a computer screen :lol: )

I am not opposed to the Pyramids, I just don't think an attempt at them before the CS slingshot is even worthy of consideration at this point.

Plus I believe that we have half-priced temples
Good thinking, Romeo. I quite overlooked that one :blush: . So my comparison isn't correct.

I just proposed the Pyramids as it's a worthwhile goal also. I'm not stating we should get it but I'm stating we could get it. And it's hard to beat the science produced by a science specialist under representation :)

I think the important thing is "Stay the course". We are nicely committed down the Oracle path so let's stick to it. Detouring back to do the Pyramids after is always an option.

Big day today Capt, time to play a turn set!! :D

:nono: [party] :beer:

Good luck!! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

Turn 60 - 2200 BC Switch Memphis to Rax.

Turn 61 - 2170 BC Worker1 NW to forest. Warrior3 towards Thebes for happiness. Warrior2 S, fogbusting.

IBT: Thebes Worker --> Library.
Cath has slavery.

Turn 62 - 2140 BC I had forgotten that FP is a dessert tile so cottages takes longer, Worker2 (which I haven’t renamed cause I don’t know how :confused: ) goes NE and starts a cottage build, due in 8 to coincide with growth, but I had plans on doing the pasture with this worker. Worker1 will build pasture after chop. Worker2 will move to forests to chop.
Worker1 chops, due in 5.
Warrior3 to Thebes. Warrior2 fortify.

Turn 63 - 2110 BC :sleep:

IBT:
Barb movement to the N.

Turn 64 - 2080 BC :sleep:

Turn 65 - 2050 BC :sleep:

IBT: AH --> Myst.

Turn 66 - 2020 BC Chop finishes.

IBT: Memphis expands, cows are 94% Russian.

Turn 67 - 1990 BC Worker1 moves towards cows.

Turn 68 - 1960 BC :sleep:

Turn 69 - 1930 BC Worker1 starts a pasture. Worker 2 finishes cottage just in time for growth. Russian cows are only 84% Russian now :)

I thought my turn set was over due to a fault in my turn log. Start up again and reload for the final turn.

Turn 70 – 1900 BC Worker2 N NW.

End of turn set notes: :sleep: Worker2 should chop.
Someone tell me how to rename units? :rolleyes:
Memphis is unhealty, but that will improve in 5 turns when we have cows.

Oh, and the Session turn log provided by the automated save system said Huyana got Slavery in 2050 BC.

Looks good Capt! :goodjob:

To change a unit name you need to have the units selected. The name and characteristcis of the unit will be displayed in a box at the lower right of the screen. Click on the name and a window pops up allowing you to type in the name you wish to use.

Cathy seems content enough, for now. The only thing that worries me a bit is that we're falling behind in power. Cathy is also growing fairly quickly in culture. Well, it won't matter too much if we can take her out with Axes... :mischief:

Roster:
Romeo - up
Gator - on deck
Redbad -
leif -
Bede -
Bradleyfeanor - waiting for his return
Capt - just played

Ill try and play this on Sat or Sunday. If Monday rolls around and I haven't finished it, plz skip me as life is still really weird for me for a while.

Ill try and play this on Sat or Sunday. If Monday rolls around and I haven't finished it, plz skip me as life is still really weird for me for a while.
In SGOTM, whatever turns you play, you must post. If you only have time for 6 or 8 turns, please post the save to the file upload page and your turn log here. The next player will pick up from where you left off.

Good going, captain. Some remarks/questions:
IBT: Dutch move towards Coventry.
Are there dutch and english too :confused: (or perhaps a joke and I'm missing the point :blush: )
Memphis is unhealty, but that will improve in 5 turns when we have cows.
I'm afraid it wont. Memphis has no traderoute with Thebes. So only Thebes will benefit from the cow. Now we're on the subject: until Memphis gets connected to the trade route there's little point in having a warrior garisoning Memphis. In the Memphis situation having an MP is first beneficial at size 4 (which won't happen any time soon given its health), there's no risk of nearby barbs and Cathy will evaluate us on total strenght. It is however important to get a warrior up north to scout and fortify on a wooded hill, in order to catch barbs while defending. And it's best to use Memphis' warrior as he's the strongest (already has promotion).

Are there dutch and english too :confused: (or perhaps a joke and I'm missing the point :blush: )
Ooops... Other sg... :blush:

I'm afraid it wont. Memphis has no traderoute with Thebes. So only Thebes will benefit from the cow. Now we're on the subject: until Memphis gets connected to the trade route there's little point in having a warrior garisoning Memphis. In the Memphis situation having an MP is first beneficial at size 4 (which won't happen any time soon given its health), there's no risk of nearby barbs and Cathy will evaluate us on total strenght. It is however important to get a warrior up north to scout and fortify on a wooded hill, in order to catch barbs while defending. And it's best to use Memphis' warrior as he's the strongest (already has promotion).
Eh, I meant Thebes will benefit from the cow. Only Thebes is unhealthy anyway ;)
I kept the warrior in Memphis in case of a declaration from Cathy (I guess my foremost thought was to upgrade it after we have copper, though, and that will still be some time). After lib is chopped, maybe road to Memphis and hook up the copper?

Any progress Romeo? :mischief:

Ill try and play this on Sat or Sunday. If Monday rolls around and I haven't finished it, plz skip me as life is still really weird for me for a while.
Switch, Gator?

Switch would be good. I was working all weekend, and I don't really see a let up soon.
At least this weekend's work involved chainsaws and demolition and then coaching softball which is a huge step up from filling out paperwork and trying to look busy at a research position.
Really sorry guys.

I'll be away on a mini-break Wed-Sat. I won't have internet access, and if I did, my wife would kill me if I used it :p

The switch is on.

I may not play tonight but can definately play tomorrow night.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Xteam_SG001_BC1600_01.Civ4SavedGame)

Not alot happened during my set, heres the log.


Turn 1 1870BC – worker2 chops
Turn 2 – 1840 – MYST is in, select POLY
Turn 3 – 1810
Turn 4 – 1780
Turn 5 – 1750 Cows are hooked up / worker1 west / worker2’s chop is in
there’s a Barb warrior 2 east of the horses up north

Turn 6 – 1720 worker1 to rice, start farm / worker2 sw s away from the barb, plus with only 3 forest left I want to save them for the Oracle / wake warrior1 in Memphis head ne towards Thebes in case the barb approaches

Turn 7 – 1690 warrior1 ne / worker2 s s to plain hill / barb warrior not entering our lands yet

Turn 8 – 1660 Thebes size 5 working the cows plus the FP’s / warrior1 ne / worker2 mines the hill (so we can have some shields for the Oracle build / barb warrior no longer in sight

Turn 9 – 1630 a new forest grows by Thebes (gives us 4 forest now) / warrior1 ne

Turn 10 - 1600 warrior1 ne to stone hill / barb warrior still out of sight

Notes
1) Thebes library due in 8
2) Not sure if mining the plain hill was right, we might have been better off roading that tile to allow the rice to hook up to Thebes
3) POLY due in 1, PRIEST is next on the path towards the CS slingshot
4) Theses turns are pretty fast, but they will pickup in excitement later. Is everyone still Ok with doing just 10 for now?

Here's a look at Thebes
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Xteam_SG4_001.jpg

EDIT: Didn't feel like a triple post was needed just for the roster.

Roster:

Romeo - Up (or would you like to swap again?)
Redbad - On deck or walking to the plate depending on Romeo
leif - playing with himself in the dugout
Bede - coaching third
Bradleyfeanor - waiting for the call to the Bigs
Capt - could care less about baseball when there is soccer butts to be kicked
Gator - just played

I will see what tomorrow evening brings but I should be able to play this one.

Will make sure we don't outgrow ourselves just yet, but will try to maximize commerce. If that means we are unhappy, well, so be it.

Good job, Gator. :goodjob: For the next turns this would be my suggestions:

Thebes switch working the 2 latest floodplain cottages to working stonehill and plainshill. It will deliver the library in 4 turns. After the library set working the 2 hills to scientists. Switch working the cow to the floodplain with 3 coins. Set build to barracks.

Rice worker. After finishing improving to rice: go to Memphis to mine/road the copper.
plainshill worker: after mining the hill, road the hill, road the rice, go to stonehill to mine/road.

Memp