Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170295) for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory. All victory conditions are still enabled though, with exception of Space Race, so you have to avoid getting another type of victory (and of course prevent the AIs from winning).

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php) at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12.

Here's the start position.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/SGOTM01_start.jpg

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Hapshepsut of Egypt
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Mystery
Game Speed - Epic

Permanent Alliances are turned on (can form permanent alliances after either communism or fascism is researched)
Space race is disabled.
Egypt is locked into war with Huayna Capac of the Incas.
Egypt is locked into peace with an unknown civilization.

The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439)

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization4 v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award - the Gold Laurels.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by either domination or diplomacy.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Good luck to your team, and remember rule #1: Enjoy your game :D

The blastoid stalker is here reporting to duty. Anybody else around yet?
no real preference on name so anything will work.

some initial thoughts

1) Get AH early to make war chariots which are very cheap expenable and great for knocking oiut a close neihbor early. of coure that means we need horsie's, the only game I have won on emporor was with Hatty and war chariots are probably the reason I won it.
2) I think we should get pottery early for those flood plains
3) maybe move settler SW and settle on plains hill, that will get us the cows and give us six flood plains and some choppable forest.

no real preference on name so anything will work.Personally, I think Alan got the name right. ;) Team #1 or maybe Team One.

This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory.Since our objective is fastest finish, I think we are looking at domination. A diplomatic victory will require us to research all of the way to Mass Media before winning. We might want to refer to Gator02 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158618) for some interesting ideas on early domination strategies.

3) maybe move settler SW and settle on plains hill, that will get us the cows and give us six flood plains and some choppable forest.I agree that we should move the Settler. I would rather not waste a flood plain by settling on it. My thoughts were either 1N to the plains tile to settle in 4000BC, or the SW move that blastoidstalker recommended. The SW move is probably better, but it requires 2 turns.

Hello to my fellow Team #1 members.

Hattie is one of the few civs I have never played so I will need to try her out in a couple of practice games. Initial thoughts for important early techs however are Animal Husbandry for the cow and chariots, pottery for turning those floodplains into vast amounts of gold, and bronze working for slaves, chops, and spears/axes.

Unknown map type really complicates things because if we are going to be warlike and on a landmass too small for domination and can't reach others with galleys we will need astronomy as soon as possible. Early scouting will play a big role in which direction we need to go.

I have never played a game with this permanent alliance and war stuff so I am not sure how it will affect what strategies we need. Does locked into peace just mean we can't declare on them or other things like they will always be friendly with us and vote for us etc?

Greetings Team #1,

I am supposedly your Team Coordinator. Please let me know if there is any other volunteer for the job. I am relatively new to all this but I can do it if you want.

Please think about a name for the team. Or is Team One acceptable to everybody?

Also what are your preferences for the number of turns we play each round and in what order you want to go?

Otherwise I agree with what has been said so far. Exploration will be important as we'll have to find out how close we are from the Inca and our ally. It might decide if we need to build some units early or if we can wait and develop our economy more peacefully. I think the first option is probably going to be true but we'll have to see. AH, Pottery, Mining, BW sound good to me. My first choice to settle is the plain-hill you guys mentioned. An alternative would be just south of the warrior if we want to have a coastal capital.

Also what are your preferences for the number of turns we play each round and in what order you want to go?The first person usually plays 20 turns, after that we all take 10 turns each. Sometimes the first 2 or 3 folks will play 20 turns since there really isn't much to do during these first turns but press enter.

As for the roster order, I suggest we put everybody in order by their timezone. I'm in CST aka GMT-6. There is usually 24 hours allowed to post a "Got It" message, with another 48 hours to actually play and post the results.

Hi folk.

I think we should avoide deciding on strategy befor we know more about situation. I believe in farming floodplans. I believe cottaging them is a waste in many cases.
For intitial moves I would move warrior to East and see if there any sea resources.
This coastal desert hill is probably a good second city location.

Currently 2 posible settlers move look atractive.
SW to settle on plain hill or 2 moves North and posible settle on plains there, depends what is around.
I currently live in Japan, I think it is GMT+9.

Personally I believe a first few turns are critical and biggest mistake SG teams do is choise initial moves and research choises with out discussion. It is because plan can be formed depends on what become known after first few moves and it could be critical to victory.

I believe in farming floodplans. I believe cottaging them is a waste in many cases.I think the tile improvements should be tailored to the intended specialization of the city. In the case of flood plains, sometimes its farms, sometimes cottages, sometime workshops. In the situation we have in this game, we are looking at a large number of flood plains in our capitol. Since the beaucracy civic will give our capitol a 50% commerce boost, I think cottages would be the way to go. So, I guess that I would have to agree with BlastoidStalker and Harok and go with the cottages.

I am in Pacific time zone GMt -8 I guess.
I agree with Mutineer that we should take the first few turns very slowly, maybe we should take a 1 day break after about 5-10 turns and we have more map revealed to flesh out our stratigy when we know surrounding resources etc.
I do not feel comfratable moving the settler north to begin if there is nothing up there we will be either in a sub-optimal spot or we will lose several turns moving back south. I like the 1 square southwest because it is a plains hill (1 extra hammer) and probably can be turned either into a production city or a commerece depending on what our surrounding cities are like. If production, I agree with Mutineer on going with farms on the floodplains, if we want a commerece city though, I would want to put cottages there. If we place a city on the desert hill it would definitely be a commerece city and I would pepper its floodplains with cottages.

research path should start with AH IMO after that we need to see what is around.

I am in CST (GMT -6).

I think we all agree that early exploration will determine which direction we need to go with our research and what we build as we won't need a stack of chariots if we are on an island all by ourself.

I see the advantages of moving North but SW on the plains hill seems to be the best move unless the warrior moving East reveals a powerhouse coastal spot.

If we do move SW, Animal Husbandry to get the cow hooked up and find horses for our early UU seems like a no brainer as initial tech to me. Starting with a worker as initial build also feels like a good move as we will have plenty for them to do with Ag, Wheel, and AH.

As for the floodplains usage, if I am in a food poor spot, really want to specialize as a production center and have lots of hills I will farm floodplains but most of the time I see cottages as a more productive improvement. With so many floodplains around I can see a mixture as being good for us with cottages on 4 or 5 and a farm on 1 or 2. A capital running bureaucracy, with cottages on most of those floodplains, an academy and library would be an early monster research center. And in a game where speed is the only objective getting to techs faster than the AI (and other teams) will be huge IMO.

Hi All,

I am in the UK (GMT +1/-1)

Too early for any real strategy , agree we need to be careful with the first turns and discuss things to set our long-term strategy.

1. SW for settler. The extra hammer is worth the extra move or worse case at least makes up for it.
2. Techs. AH first. If we can get to horses on second city then Pottery before Mining/BW otherwise we better get there quick as I'm not sure how the barbs will work out.
3. Production. Agree with Harok, worker first as there will be plenty to do
4. Worker Strategy. Need to see the surrounding terrain after settler move. It looks like there are enough hills though to make this a production centre . I would not normally farm floods but if we have 4-5 hills then it makes sense and this city alone will produce enough units for our early war(s). Second city using the remaining floods for a commerce centre but this is probably looking a bit far ahead at the moment :)

Personally I believe some quick GP farm is mach more efficient then commerce city. IN addition when city still small slavery provide incredible amount of production.

Again, it is subject to terran and how far/near our neybors are.
Amount of floodplans around making me think about quick civil service/philosofy/Music GP jump. Ofcouse, it is subject to how far/near our neybors are and what other resources/terran is around.

On other note, we need to create rooster and decide who playng critical first/second sets. They are really critical because it is time of formulation long turm strategy.
That make me think about warrior first, not worker, in order to find out more about thinks around faster. We can grow city to size 2 in process, not loosing mach of speed.

Remember, we are looking on hand crufted map, so useal assumption are off.

Who has played succesion game before, if anyody has a good amount of expierence they should be our leader. I have just stated one (STR Scorched lands) but have only played one turn, so I think someone slse could do a better job. I would think Mutineer or Conroe would make sense from their number of posts. Leader goes first then we order by time zones around.
turns 20,15, 10, 10, 10 etc.?
So Conroe or Mutineer, either of you want to do it?

I was thinking warrior-worker as well:) .

I am do not like to make my first city a GP farm because a GP farm's main resource, food is not effected by bureaucracy. I like a costal resource city with 3 food resources for a GP farm. Anyway I think this discussion has to wait until we see our surrounding area

I am in Pacific Time zone too.

I prefer cottages to farms too but we have to see. There are a lot of floodplains and we'll probably have a mixture. I would build a Warrior first for exploration.

I am ok with roster idea proposed by Blastoidstalker. We are still missing 2 players though.

Put the missing people at the end of the list. If they do not show up by then we will just skip them

The important thing is what to do with the capital as it will be improved first and also has to produce the second settler/worker. I normally prefer commerce for the capital but I have had a similiar start before with hills and good food, this enabled me to make captial production centre and with beauracracy early giving 50% hammers I was able to produce my top unit in 2 turns from axeman to the end of the game. I actually had enough tiles left after the food I needed for the hills was sorted for 3 cottages which also kept it the commerce leader for quite some time anyway :)

I assume mutineer, you mean use the second city for GP farm rather than make it commerce ? This would be okay for a couple of quick GP's but then convert to commerce and look for a better GP farm with coastal resource ?

With the mystery map I agree a warrior first might help to work out what to do and benefit over losing a few turns efficiency.

Yes, not permanent gp farm, but initial gp farm. Convert or not convert depends on what other cities we will have.

Initially GP farm needed minimum worker actions (Only farm a 1-2-3 ties), compare to commercial centre. It could be used as secondary production centre from slavery and converted to commerce if nessasary later, after it whipe all infrustructure needed. I found that farmed floodplan provide mach more flexibility from start to finish, as they provided concentrated food and still give +1 food even if city unhealthy.

Greate people are mach more efficient source of research on start, making production/gp generation a king.

Well I got some practice starts in last night just picking a random map and settings and then altering the start to look similar to the one we have here. War chariots are indeed a solid unit and most effective when they are attacking civs before they can hook up copper or iron. And coming across a civ with metal means priority one for taking that civ down is getting it pillaged.

I still think worker first is best but I seem to be losing the vote (won't be the last time I am sure ;)) and I do see the benefit of going warrior first for more exploration and getting to size 2, I just think it is outweighed by getting tile improvement started sooner. For an early UU to be effective it has to come rolling off the production lines as early as possible.

Another thing to keep in mind with all those floodplains, health can quickly become a problem which may really limit how many specialists you can run.

Personally, I think we still have some time before we must have a final roster. The game does not start until midnight on Friday, so we still have a couple of more days to allow our missing players to check in. What we do need to do is get busy on picking a team name. Alan is going to need this from us BEFORE Friday. If we don't pick one, then he will pick one for us.

Regarding the Worker vs. Warrior discussion, I am inclined to go Warrior. But, not for the early exploration benefit. Normally, I would start a new game building a Worker. This game is different, because we are already at war with the Inca. We have no clue what type of map we are on, whether it be pangea, continents, islands, etc. Capac may be our neighbor for all we know. For this same reason, I like the idea of starting research on Animal Husbandry to locate our horses. And hopefully we have horses or our UU will be nothing but a sad joke.

Do we want to consider the Oracle/CS slingshot? I've never attempted it on Monarch difficulty, so I do not know if it is even doable. Of course, if our neighbor is Capac, then all bets are off and we are in full war mode production. But, if we do have the time, I think it is something to consider because of the early bureaucracy benefits. And, if we do beeline for bureaucracy, I think getting cottages up as quickly as possible is the way to maximize the bureaucracy benefit.

If the map maker put us right next to the Inca who we are locked into war with they are one sadistic person. :lol:

Honestly I had forgotten about being at war with someone from the start so a warrior for protection is probably best, just to be safe.

Conroe,
If we go production in capital I'm sure we could get the Oracle, have to see what out war requirements are though.

I'm normally for capturing wonders :king:

If the map maker put us right next to the Inca who we are locked into war with they are one sadistic person. :lol:
What would be truly sadistic is putting us and Capac alone together on a tiny island with no source of horses for our UU. :lol: The only source of metals will be copper located under the Incan capital. Our only hope would then be to quickly build a ton of Archers, for which Capac's Quecha's get a 100% bonus against, and try an early Archer rush. Now that would be sadistic! :devil: My guess is that is exactly what Gyathaar has designed for us. :sad:



On a side note, I am going to go ahead and PM our two missing players: Doc TK and Woobi. Unless ahm52 or someone has already done that? I'm pretty sure that everyone else has checked in ...
Edit: The PMs have been sent. I noticed that Woobi has not been on since April 29th, so he may be a no-show.

I think we are set for an oracle CS slingslhot if we have horses quick (and use chariots for our primary defense early), this way we can avoid researching stuff like archery and BW until after priesthood.

Wow - thanks for the PM. I miss a day or two and there are 25 posts. :)

Team One seems to be the name.

I'm doing an SG right now with another group and we used 20 for the first person (which was mostly exploration) and 15 for people for the next round and then down to 10, BUT it was normal speed. Of course, the flip side is that there are a lot of us on this team, so we need pretty fast hand offs.

Do we want 24 or 48 hour limits for hand-offs and skip if no "got it" in that period?

I pretty much agree with what's been posted on the moves. 1SW unless the ocean is incredible.

In terms of the roster, maybe the fair way to do it is based on initial posting order into this thread, i.e., I will be last. Alternatively do the order based on current global ranking in the GOTMs (as of GOTM5) with best ranked people going early. Or you can use the order that they are listed in the team list thread. Or you can randomly choose.

I like warrior/worker to get a little more exploration and find the locked enemy.

I personally am not as much of an early victory kind of player (more of a balanced build/dom kind of player). So, I'm all for us getting pottery and plopping some cottages on the floods. I would think that we might go: AH (hook up cows and get UU) , Mining, BW, IW (I want to know those locations to hook things up), Pottery, Writing, Alpha. Of course all of this will change once we look around a little.

I'm not as big a fan of Oracle slingshot because of risk of not getting it and need to use up research on religious techs.

I noticed that Woobi has not been on since April 29th, so he may be a no-show.


Of course, the flip side is that there are a lot of us on this team, so we need pretty fast hand offs

I deliberately loaded up the teams that had several players with no SG experience as I expected a few no shows. I have been known to be wrong, of course!

WE do not have any gold.
On monarch that mean that we can get COL from Oracle.
No chance to get civil service with out gold.
Now, Greate Prophet will offer 1000+ to civil service.
So, Oracle and if we have opportunity stonehedge+a priest will give as Great Prophet or 2 in a hurry.

That what I mean when I say GP civil service slignshot.

Great Prophet offer to research (so long as we do not know Masonry and do know Meditation and Politheism)
Civil service, Philosofy If avalible), Music (if avalible).

So, this plan revolted around getting Col from Oracle, getting most of civil service from Prophet, Getting philosofy from GS (Need to know machematic)
Getting Music from Greate Prophet (need to know Mathematic, Philosofy, Literature and Monarchy).

It's look like long shot, but in reality it is very doable with one gp deducated city and capital wanders. But ofcouse we would need industrial capital = farming a few floodplance.

IN that case research plan would be:

Animal hasbentry, mining, Mysticism, (Meditation or Politheism, we could try to go after one not researched yet. I tend to get early religion in 20% cases on Emperor with this plan), Priesthood, Writing, (col from Oracle), bronse working, Alphavit, (Meditation or Politheism), civil service (with help of Greate Prophet).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165059

Look at this tread for simular plan implementation.

It is posible to get one setler our befor Oracle, if terran let as.

So, this plan revolted around getting Col from Oracle, getting most of civil service from Prophet, Getting philosofy from GS (Need to know machematic)
Getting Music from Greate Prophet (need to know Mathematic, Philosofy, Literature and Monarchy).Well, I must say Mutineer, that your earlier posts regarding turning the capital into a GP farm make a lot more sense now. Its an interesting idea. My initial thoughts are that building 2 early wonders and a temple may be a bit much on Monarch. But, overall, I really do think your plan merits consideration. I have not read your link to JJ01, yet, but I will see about getting that done tonight.

One thing that I don't understand is the emphasis that you place on getting to Philosophy. You also mention that Philosophy and Monarchy are required for Music, but they are not required in order to research Music. Or will the Great Prophet give you those techs instead of Music if you don't already have them? That's probably it.

Also, does your plan take into consideration that we are locked into a war with the Incan? I'm assuming that we won't be building any wonders if we need to wage war with Capac ...

Yes, this plan is subject of how near/far to any opponents we are.
If we next to them war would be paramount.

Yes, Propet will offer philosofy and monarchy ahead of music.
Music is very big push. It is very good trade tech and Artist could be used for
Cristianity-divine right or Nationalism. (dramma needed).

Philosofy is greatly underapriciated tech, especially for big empires and for early on for extra GP generation. I am often spend most of time in Philosofy/Mercantenilism/(Nationalism/free speach)/representations later in game when go for domination. I use philosofy for faster GP generation early.
We are spiritual, we can make a full use of it.

I had to give Alan a name for our team. I picked Team One since no one had any other proposal. I hope you're ok with that.

I don't think he needs the roster but we should kind of finalize it between ourselves. I like the idea of going according to the time zone. Doc TK, in which time zone are you? I guess we could start with Mutineer in Japan since he also seems to be one of the most experienced amongst us. Please let me know if you have any objection. Mutineer will you be available over the weekend to start the game for us?

Yes, no problem with weekends. I am actially tend to have more time on weekends then in work days.

I strongly disagree with building Stonehendge when we are already getting 2 culture from being Creative. We have lots of things to worry about being locked into war, having a very early UU that will be almost useless if we don't focus on using it and get distracted by building early wonders that get us nothing but GP points.

IMO the best early GP to get is a Scientist by building a library and running a scientist specialist or 2 and then make an academy with it in whatever city we view as being our science center. (Please note I don't want to take credit for this technique as I have stolen it from hendrikszoon and his spoilers in GOTMs) Our potential capital is a prime suspect if we cottage most of the floodplains.

But I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves and will be able to come up with a much more defined plan after we have seen some more land.

Early goals IMO should be finding horses and getting them hooked up, getting a feel for what type of landmass we are on, who and where our neighbors are, and getting the best tiles worked. I think the early techs that will help us the most are AH, pottery, BW, Writing.

Doc TK, in which time zone are you? I guess we could start with Mutineer in Japan since he also seems to be one of the most experienced amongst us. Please let me know if you have any objection. Mutineer will you be available over the weekend to start the game for us?

I'm in US-Pacific Time.

FYI - Game is released at midnight (I assume that's either midnight US-Eastern or midnight US-Pacific). Maybe we pick someone who is going to be able to play it fairly soon after?

On strategy - I'm really wondering about the main goal here - early domination vs. a strategy of going for Oracle / CS Slingshot. Is this to get us to early Macemen? Then Calvary?

Going the religion route sounds like that delays any conquesting for a while.

I'm going to be fine with it, but let's make sure that the path we choose is going to get us towards our overall goal of early domination.

FYI - I just looked at JJ01 (mutineer pointed us to it above) and they had marble around for the Oracle.

On strategy - I'm really wondering about the main goal here - early domination vs. a strategy of going for Oracle / CS Slingshot. Is this to get us to early Macemen? Then Calvary?

Going the religion route sounds like that delays any conquesting for a while.

I'm going to be fine with it, but let's make sure that the path we choose is going to get us towards our overall goal of early domination.You raise some good points, Doc. But at this point, our strategizing is all speculation since we don't know enough about the map or the Incan war.

When playing a financial civ, I like to prioritize getting the beaucracy civic. When combined with a fully cottaged capital with an Academy, you can be quite a tech powerhouse. Use that to beeline to Chemistry and take over the world with Grenadiers. You never even have to research rifles or Calvary. Will a similiar strategy work in this game? Don't know. Don't have enough information, yet ...

Conroe, I like getting to chemistry early as well, my last 3 games were domniated with them but you do need a good tech lead, I often go straight to cannon as well if things are looking good and really give the AI a hard time :lol: .

FYI - I just looked at JJ01 (mutineer pointed us to it above) and they had marble around for the Oracle.
We did not use it, as marble needed Masonry and researching Masonry and well takes to mach time and closing civil service from Greate Prophet.
Please, read more befor commenting.

Well, it looks like the game has started. AMH, as team captain, can you please post the roster?

The game has started already? Where is it?

Anyway time to get ready. Going with the time zone idea, here is the roster:
Mutineer-Strobe-Conroe-Harok-Blastoidstalker-Doc TK-amh52

I hope everyone is happy and let's start the fun!

Just to rewrite the roster:

Mutineer - Up
Strobe - On Deck
Conroe
Harok
Blastoidstalker
Doc TK
amh52

Also, I don't remember if I saw a set number of turns for each player. Should we assume 20 turns for the first round? 15 for second round and then 10 after?

FYI - you can get the save file from:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php

The game has started already? Where is it?
Please read up on the ground rules, mechanics and framework for this competition. They are in your first post, or linked from it. All should be come clear. If not, please contact me with your questions.

T0
Move warrior east, revealing one fish. Not enogth information yet, but look like potential GP farm cite.
Move setler on Hill as discussed.
Look like disent cite, decided to setlle there.
Setling reveal stone in city cross.
Research - Animal hasbentry.
Production - warrior.
It take exec amount of turn to warrior to produce and for thiebes to grow to size 2.
Now north is explored.
Meat Catherina, lovelly as allways. :)
So far we have 1 source of happiness - silver, but in a bad location.
Animal hasbetry - mining
We have an industrial capital with all this hills. WE need Mining for worker to be able to mine for as.
Hourses revealed on north.

So, so far (south is not explored yet) we have choise to settle a city with only 2 default food supluss (red dot), but claiming bouth silver and hourses or blue or green dot claiming only hourses. Blue and green will make a good industrial city.

I learn to red dot, as this city provide as with imidiate source of happiness and hourses, can be fixed to size 2 working hourses and silver = more then paying for itself with good production and commerce.
We can use it as short turm military production centre.

There still not enogth information to dicide what to do after Mining.
As you see on general picture there is wall of mountans.
My intuition tell me that this wall look suspicious. It is higly likelly that our war locked opponent is there. I would suggest investigation and to live some defence in coastal cities when we build them.

From information screen you can see that one of AI has gold. (he has 5 more commerce then everybody else).

I would abstain from planing to cut any trees in our capital, as we will soon hit health limit.

Propoused plan for next set of turns:
worker-couple of warriors why letting capital to grow-setler.
I would not build barrack, as it is too expencive.
Not final, but suggest red dot to claim hourses and silver.
Research wize. We would have all workers tech we need.
Cathy is resonable distance from as. If we claim hourses we can go and hit her with our UU.
I would suggest to stop when we finish mining and discuss what to do depends on distance to Cathy.
I think we want religion, in this case research path should be:
Mining-Mysticism-(Meditation or Politheism, depends on what is not discovered yet), priesthood-writing-(col oracle) with intent to go after civil servic with a prophet help. This will garanty as a religion and civil service resonably early.

That would not go good in Cathy very near. If military plan is needed then bronse working-pottery-writing look more attractive with plan to grab Philosofy(taoism) later on.



Turn 1, 3970 BC: Thebes has been founded.

Turn 4, 3880 BC: The borders of Thebes have expanded!

Turn 6, 3820 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs Team One's Warrior (2.90)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 6, 3820 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Team One's Warrior is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Team One's Warrior is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Team One's Warrior is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Team One's Warrior is hit for 12 (52/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 6, 3820 BC: Team One's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Turn 17, 3490 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Team One's Warrior (3.90)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Combat Odds: 1.0%
Turn 17, 3490 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 17, 3490 BC: Team One's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

great start Mutineer

For 2nd city I like the green dot and do not care much for the other 2. the two cows, 1 horse, 1 fish and a couple of cottage sites will make it a great early city for cranking out war chariots, more usefull that having silver (fish and horse will make up the commerace with more food and same production )
I would like to get BW relatively early as I would like to see coppy locations and use slavery.
thoughts?

Also we probably need a city for producing Gallys as I think we need to go round those mountains.

Also, I don't remember if I saw a set number of turns for each player. Should we assume 20 turns for the first round? 15 for second round and then 10 after?Personally, I would rather the turn numbers stay a multiple of 10. It keeps the ending year number in synch with the end of a turnset. How about the second person plays 20 then we go with 10 after that?

I learn to red dot, as this city provide as with imidiate source of happiness and hourses, can be fixed to size 2 working hourses and silver = more then paying for itself with good production and commerce.
We can use it as short turm military production centre.I think red dot would make a fine fishing village some day. With the silver mine, it will pay for itself from the get-go.

But, I agree with blastoidstalker that green dot is a much better site. It has grassland horses, a grassland cow, a plains cow, and fish. Since we have Animal Husbandry, this city would make a much better military production city. I would not look to settle red dot until we see some of the terrain down south.

As you see on general picture there is wall of mountans.
My intuition tell me that this wall look suspicious. It is higly likelly that our war locked opponent is there. I would suggest investigation and to live some defence in coastal cities when we build them.I agree, those mountains do look suspicious! Maybe after green dot is settled we do a little "Work Boat scouting".

I have picked up the save and will be playing through it today (next 8 hours).

My initial thoughts......

I agree on getting settler to the green dot as next priority.
I will finish worker then build another 2 warriors as capitol grows.
Research Mining will be done in 7 turns at which point I will post back for some decisions.

The capitol is a bit dissappointing, I was hoping for another plains hill. Still great for early production centre but long-term will make a much better commerce city.

Plan for worker would be to farm the rice first then pasture the cow.

Warriors will move south to open up terrain.

From a defensive point of view not a bad place to start, should be able to remove FOW and we have to focus in only one direction (south). War should be easy and could possibly wait while we get Oracle.
couple of things interest me, we don't have much happiness and we will need cottages early as we have no gold or sites for camps. We have a lot of food and health should not be too bad, Heriditary rule will probably make sense once we can afford to research monarchy.

Warrior kills lion, despite his skirt he is very tough & brave :)

Mountains are strange and they appear to have coast on the other side, not quite sure what to make of it yet.

Other warrior carried on south to Cathy and finds clams just off the coast, then cathy's borders. She has Gems and sugar nearby. I need to investigate further.......

Next move reveals there it is a defensive bottleneck leading to cathy.

It looks like Cathy is blocked in is on a sort of small peninsula.

Mining and worker are completed... we need to discuss some strategy before I go further.

I'm thinking we get rid of cathy early (don't want to war with her later as well as with capac) although this means no trading with AI, then expand to fill the island which has some good land.

I think I would voite for military solution. That mean a couple warriors-setler-barack and crank chariots from 2 cities.
Cathy has a gem at capital and 2 gems near by and she is near. This gems will pay for city, so, I think we should take her.

We still do not know is there space down below.

There migth be, in that case we migth be able to extort some tech from her befor she die.

In that case I would suggest forget Oracle and go by
Pottery-Writing-Alphavit-Bronse working road.

Our UU should provide all offence we need.
For that plan Green dot seems fine for second city.
We migth consider stealing a worker from her if opportunity provide itself.
Personally I do not speal worker often... So, what even we are comfortable with.

Pottery-Writing-Alpha sounds good to me.

The south does look closed off as you can see the coast, but there is a gap so who knows. I assume Cathy will put a second city in that bottleneck and more than likely on a hill which is a pain.

They always seem to hide their workers from me :), but certainly worth keeping an eye out out for the opportunity.

Might be worth getting a second worker before or after barracks ? First worker follows settler to get horses connected and improve that city so we may not have all the hills up and running by then. I would chop one forest from capitol for it (won't affect health).

As per Conroe's question I need to know whether to go 15 or 20 turns, If I don't hear anything then I will do 15 as agreed.

I assume Cathy will put a second city in that bottleneck and more than likely on a hill which is a pain.Any chance that we can get there first with our 2nd Settler? We could put the city down on one of those hills, ourselves. We'd have horses, 2 gems, and a cow within the city radius. She'd be blocked from further expansion. As long as we keep the city well-defended, we can take our time killing her off. Just a thought ...

As per Conroe's question I need to know whether to go 15 or 20 turns, If I don't hear anything then I will do 15 as agreed.Well, you know my vote. ;)

I thought about a blocking city but it would be very risky, I doubt we can get a settler out or certainly not before Cathy without serious chopping and if we miss the horse then we're screwed. On balance just a bit too risky I think.

Building 3rd warrior
Pottery selected for research
Clams & fish revealed on our east coast
Irrigate of Rice completed and citizen moved to work the tile
3100BC Buddhism founded by AI.

Turn 20, 3400 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Team One's Warrior (3.80)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Combat Odds: 1.1%
Turn 20, 3400 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: (Feature: +20%)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Team One's Warrior is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 20, 3400 BC: Team One's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 26, 3220 BC: You have discovered Mining!

Turn 30, 3100 BC: Buddhism has been founded in a distant land!

FOR NEXT TURNS.....
Plan to go to writing (open borders to cathy to get a look at what she is doing ?)
Left warrior near to cathy on sentry duty looking for a worker grab if possible
Other warrior is on the way to explore the last bit of southern land.
I was not going to road the rice or cow yet as we do not need health, although this is worker inefficient having the cows up and running 7-8 turns earlier is better.

Conroe, I've uploaded the save at 15 turns. I have no problem either with you taking 15 to bring it in line, heres a link to save.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_BC2950_01.Civ4SavedGame

Got It! I doubt that I will be able to play it until tonight ~ about 12 or so hours from now.

Conroe, I've uploaded the save at 15 turns. I have no problem either with you taking 15 to bring it in line, heres a link to save.Unless anyone objects, I probably will go ahead and play 15 ...

I think we should use official down load page. I do not think we can pass save this way.

This is a link to the official uploaded save, it gives you the link to use for this purpose when you upload the save on the official page.

Well I see lots of techs that would be nice to have....writing for open borders and libraries, bronze for slavery as we have quite a bit of food and also to get copper for axes or spears and more importantly to see if Catherine has it, and fishing for sea exploration and to work fish/clam. Remember Alphabet is worthless if we are alone on an island with Catherine as the AI won't trade at all. I would lean towards bronze or fishing first then writing.

The city site to the north seems like a lock for our second city and I suggest we found it ASAP and get horses hooked up or else Catherine will have too much time to get copper or iron.

Good work so far.:goodjob:

Situation Assessment: It looks like Mutineer and Strobe have gotten most of our island explored. There is still some black to uncover down south, and more blackness south of [presumably] Moscow. Strobe has our original Warrior fortified outside of Russian territory. Our other Warrior is heading south to see what is down there. Our capital, Thebes, is undefended.

Strobe suspects that there is nothing beyond the eastern wall of mountains. I may be inclined to agree. Here is a close up for you to judge for yourself:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SGOTM1_2950BC_MtnWall.JPG

We are currently producing our 3rd Warrior, due in 3 turns. Thebes will grow to size 3 next turn. The plan calls for a Settler next.

The city is producing 10bpt with 100% on the research slider. Our research is set to Pottery, which is due in 6 turns. We have no gold in the bank.

Objectives: Explore the south and settle green dot.

Turn 0 - 2950BC: Nothing to do but press Enter ...

IBT: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land.

Turn 1 - 2920BC: Thebes grows to size 3, shaving a turn off of our Warrior build.

Turn 2 - 2890BC: Our 3rd Warrior is trained and we start rounding up a Settler. It will take 19 turns! :confused: I forgot this game was at epic speed ...

Meanwhile, our Warrior heading south uncovers enough fog to locate a Panther! Since our boys are on flat land, their Woodsman I promotion won't be of any use. I forget what the barb animal bonus is on Monarch, but the combat odds won't be much better than 50/50.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SGOTM1_2890BC_Panther.JPG

Turn 3 - 2860BC: Our Warrior survives the Panther encounter, but just barely! He is 0.2/2 and needs 9 turns to heal. I move him into the jungle to open up the coast line and give him some defense while healing. He does find some Sugar down here on the beach, though.

Turn 4 - 2830BC: We get a border expansion in Thebes. Catherine gets one in Moscow, as well. Her expansion threw our fortified Warrior clear across the bay. As a result, we no longer have anyone keeping an eye on Cathy.

Turn 5 - 2800BC: Pottery is learned and we start in on Writing, due in 17 turns.

Turn 7 - 2740BC: Our Worker completes a pasture on the plains cow resource, thus shaving 4 turns off of our Settler. It still won't be done during my turnset, though.

Turn 9 - 2680BC: Apparently, Catherine had a Scout sitting up north. Our recent border expansion has trapped her Scout on our side of the island.

Turn 12 - 2590BC: Our Warrior reports that Cathy has a Settler pair heading north. My guess is it is heading towards the desert tile between the clams and the cows. Not a bad site, really. Personally, I would have taken the horses and gems site first. Maybe she already has another city under that fog. Or, if she doesn't have Animal Husbandry, then she wouldn't know the horses are even there.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SGOTM1_2590BC_SettlerPair.JPG

IBT: It looks like I was wrong. St. Petersburg, Catherine's second city, is founded on the spot! Actually, I should say "on that hill", with a bonus Archer.

Turn 15 - 2500BC: Catherine has discovered Writing! She comes a calling asking for open borders. Sounds like a plan! I send our hilltop Warrior towards St. Petersburg. I will leave it to the next person to discover the wonders of Russia!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SGOTM1_2500BC_OpenBdr.JPG

Notes: Settler is due in 2 turns; Writing is due in 6 turns. We may want to send Thebes' Warrior on ahead to Green dot to scout for barbs. Our Woodsman I Warrior, now healed from the earlier Panther attack, is 3 turns SW of Thebes.

I will leave you with a couple of screen shots. The first is our lands in the east:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SGOTM1_2500BC_East.JPG

You will notice that I transferred Mutineer's dots to this map. I also added the lucky pink dot. This will be one nice city, with 2 food resources and 7 flood plains. Of course, it will also be a cesspool of disease, but being coastal will allow a harbor to help somewhat. I really think pink dot should be city 3, after green dot.

This last map is Catherine's lands to the west:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SGOTM1_2500BC_West.JPG

Roster Check:
Mutineer
Strobe
Conroe - Just Played
Harok - UP
Blastoidstalker - On Deck
Doc TK
amh52

And the save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php).

Good turns everybody.
for future research I am thinking we need BW and fishing next. BW to see where copper is and slavery, sailing
We talked about alphabet before, but if we knock off Cat then there will be nobody left to trade with at the moment. So I do not like going for alphabet until we have some real use of it.

We have stone, do we want to pursue one of the stone wonders if we can knock off Cat quick (pyramids or GL). This would require masonary

Good job conroe.

Harok has an interesting point about alphabet. I never seem to have any luck getting tech from the AI, what do people think the odds of getting something from Cathy are ? If they are low then fishing & sailing would be better researched to get a galley on the move as soon as we finish war.

I like the pink dot for the third city also, our first two cities will be production so GP farm for the third ?

Knew Cathy would put the city there if only to annoy me ! It's on a hill meaning we need more chariots to break her, plus it would not be the position I would like for a city when we take it.

We won't be able to get the pyramids and take out Cathy. With two cities, one on a hill, we will need at least 8 chariots.

We migth demand a tech from Cathy just befior we attack.
If we have bigger military, AI will give up to demand.
Alphavit is a good tech to have even if we are not trade with anyone. It is open Dramma ( we usefull for as because of cheat theaters) and Dramma open Philosify (With Mathematic).

Good job so far.

I also vote to take out Cathy. It would be good if we could get one Civ out early. Plus she has some good land and will be harder to take out later.

I would go BW next for slavery and to see copper. Not sure afterwards but I would skip Alphabet unless we meet someone else. Fishing, Masonry? Do we want to try and go for a religion?

It would be nice to build a second worker before barrack as we have lots to do. What do you think?

I think strobe and amh is right about getting others Fishing, Sailing to find other AIs before we go for Alpha. But once we are going to find other folks, lets definitely jump on Alpha.

Knew Cathy would put the city there if only to annoy me ! It's on a hill meaning we need more chariots to break her, plus it would not be the position I would like for a city when we take it.Oh, I agree. Of all the places she could pick to put a city down, that hill is the last one that I would have picked. :lol: I really don't think she knew about the horses, otherwise she would have put that city 1 tile to the left.

... and take out Cathy. With two cities, one on a hill, we will need at least 8 chariots.I was thinking closer to 10, maybe a dozen, chariots. Since Cathy is creative, those cultural defenses will grow quickly. Combined with those fortified Archers, that get a city bonus plus a hills bonus, those cities may be tough to take down. I would rather take enough troops so that we don't risk promoting those Archers.

for future research I am thinking we need BW and fishing next. BW to see where copper is and slavery, sailingI could agree with Bronze Working and Fishing. I really don't think we need Sailing, at the moment, though. Fishing will give us a Work Boat, which has the same movement as a Galley. I feel that we can use a couple of Work Boats to sail around our island ...

With an early war and this research path, I assume that we are pretty much shelving any plans of an Oracle run?

I was thinking closer to 10, maybe a dozen, chariots. Since Cathy is creative, those cultural defenses will grow quickly. Combined with those fortified Archers, that get a city bonus plus a hills bonus, those cities may be tough to take down. I would rather take enough troops so that we don't risk promoting those Archers.
Im normally fairly cautious so would go with 12 :).

I could agree with Bronze Working and Fishing. I really don't think we need Sailing, at the moment, though. Fishing will give us a Work Boat, which has the same movement as a Galley. I feel that we can use a couple of Work Boats to sail around our island ...
I would rather have alpha if I could extort some tech but it never works for me, so I would go Fishing.
Maybe mutineer could give us some more info on how likely it is we can get some tech out of cathy ?

I've got it and will attempt to play tonight.

I was actually thinking of switching research off of Writing to BW (I wasn't sure what the rules for switching research and build orders are as I am a SG noob). Now that we have open borders with Catherine we don't really need it right away because if we are gearing up for war we won't have time to build a library as we will need to get a barracks and some chariots out there. Creative + both cities on hills is bad but if she has spears from bronze it will be down right ugly, especially if we can't even see where the bronze is to pillage it.

I would love to have at least one more worker but can't decide if it will be worth it before starting a barracks. I will have to check how long the build time is.

I would finish writing for now. We have to build another city, barracks and 12 chariots so we have time to research other techs still.

Explore below Cathy to see what is there which may change our plan, i.e. If she extends south then maybe sue for peace after taking her capitol etc...

I would like to hear from Mutineer on how likely it is we can get some tech from Cathy before making a final decision.

If we don't think we can get tech from her then I'm okay with BW or Fishing.

If the AI only knows us they will not trade at all and you can't even demand techs because they will all be red on the trade screen. The only way to get a tech from her would be as a peace treaty.

I was actually thinking of switching research off of Writing to BWPersonally, I think this is a pretty good idea, for the reasons that you have stated. We don't want to ignore Writing too long, since the invested beakers will begin to decay after awhile. Plus there is that Library thing ...

I would like to hear from Mutineer on how likely it is we can get some tech from Cathy before making a final decision.I agree with Harok. I can't see Cathy trading techs with us, let alone allowing us to demand a tech. Now, once we meet another civ, she might ...

WE do not need Bronse working RIGTH NOW.
Researching it rigth now is not nessesary. WE can delayng it's research in order to move ahead of research tree.
There are 3 options open for as, as we dismiss early religion path.

Alphavit-Dramma-Philosofy (GS)
Mathematica-Currency-Col- Philosofy(GS)
Bronse working-mettalocasting-Mashinery-

From this 3 I prefure first one.
Cheap theaters will give as unlimited happiness.
Philosofy will give as Taoism and Pacifism as a civic.

AI does trade even if they do not meat any one.

Unlike Mutineer I think BW is essential right now for several reasons
1) Reveals copper which is a great production bonus and can effect city placement
2) If we can hook it up it gives us a second useful unit (axeman) that can be used with the chariots to speed up the war process.
3) Slavery will be very useful in this game as it is looking now, with lots of food resources and few luxuries will we take out Cat we can use it now.

Sorry about suggesting sailing I got sailing and fishing mixed up, we need fishing but after that we need to see.

I do think once we get past these developmental techs that Mutineers ideas on going the alphabet path to music philosophy etc are interesting. I am not sold on it, as it seems better to me for a builder and not a domination strategy. But we may not have another target for a while after Cat and it may be a way to jump ahead in tech and infrastructure




On the discussion of how many war chariots we need
Though we may eventual need around 10 chariots to take out CAT we do not need them all at once.
I played one emperor game with Hattie and started two wars in the war chariot era (with the Inca and the Americans) what I found was

1) To take a city and be assured you will do it you want to have twice as many chariots as archers/axemen in city. Usually you will lose 1 chariot for every two defenders
2) They are vulnerable to counter attack if your opponent has axes but not archers
3) the most effective promotions are flanking 1-2 (especially if the opponent does not have copper). Flanking one itself is not that impressive, but flanking 2 gives both a 20% increased chance to retreat and immunity to first strikes. The immunity to first strike is important as it makes them more effective against archers. They usually have some where between a 20-35% success rate and about a 65% survival rate (with retreat). The problem is the first time you use them to attack as (if you built barracks) they have only 1 promotion. You have to use them once, hope they survive (even by retreating) then you promote them to flanking two and they become very valuable.
Looking at our current situation I think Cats outer city should be relatively easy to take (even with the hill) we just need to get it before it jumps to 40%. The capital will take some work and we will lose some troops, hopefully by this time we have 1-2 axemen to help out.

All in all I think we should start our attack when we have about 4 chariots ready and more in the making. We take out the first city ASAP, stop any counterattack then march in and overwhelm Moscow or any other cities she foolishly starts.

No one argues that Bronse working is very usefull tech.
But Rigth now we do not need axes, as chariots will cheaper, have the same base STR and get to Cathy mach faster. But right now we will not use slavery to produce chariot army, we will not use higth food ties because Good Food Good shield Cow/hources ties and mines will be base of our production.
No one will claim cooper ahead of as, as we do not have any other competitors exept Cathy. So, in short term we do not have any use for Bronse working what so ever.

No one argues that Bronse working is very usefull tech.
But Rigth now we do not need axes, as chariots will cheaper, have the same base STR and get to Cathy mach faster. But right now we will not use slavery to produce chariot army, we will not use higth food ties because Good Food Good shield Cow/hources ties and mines will be base of our production.
No one will claim cooper ahead of as, as we do not have any other competitors exept Cathy. So, in short term we do not have any use for Bronse working what so ever.

My reasons for
Slavery- allows us to convert extra food into production which is very usefull right now. slavery will probably be for quick libraries or other building when # of people gets to high (2 pop) .

If you do have copper it makes a several hammer difference in production. this will add up over time. revealing the resource is my biggest reason.

Chopping in the non floodplain cities is a valid option to quicken expansion (city 2 to produce settler for city 3 or worker) it allows us to let cities grow while producing these types of units

axemen will also be used for barb protection (though I think this will not be a big issue with the apperent size of our landmass.

Cat often goes for BW early (We will know if she adopts slavery).

WE do not need Bronse working RIGTH NOW.
Researching it rigth now is not nessesary.
...
Cheap theaters will give as unlimited happiness.
Philosofy will give as Taoism and Pacifism as a civic.I think Theatres are going to be an important way for us to leverage our traits. They will certainly be needed to combat war weariness in the future. However, I just don't see that we need Theatres right NOW.

As for religion, I would rather found Confucianism (CoL) rather than Taoism. Code of Laws gives us access to Courthouses, which we will eventually need. True, Philosophy opens up the Pacifism civic. However, I'm not convinced of the usefulness of Pacifism as a war-time civic, given its double unit upkeep costs.

1) To take a city and be assured you will do it you want to have twice as many chariots as archers/axemen in city. Usually you will lose 1 chariot for every two defendersNormally 2-to-1 is a good ratio; but in this situation, I think we should be planning on a 3-to-1 ratio. Keep in mind that both of Catherine's cities are built on hills. Plus she is creative, so that cultural defense will pop up quickly. A healthy, strength 3 Archer, fortified, in a city, on a hill, with a 20% cultural defense bonus, will have an effective strength of 7.35 after a 145% defense bonus. It's effective strength will be 7.95 with a City Garrison I promotion. Our War Chariot UU has a base strength of 5, or 5.5 with a Combat I promotion.

Make no mistake: This is going to be a tough war!

3) the most effective promotions are flanking 1-2 (especially if the opponent does not have copper). Flanking one itself is not that impressive, but flanking 2 gives both a 20% increased chance to retreat and immunity to first strikes. The immunity to first strike is important as it makes them more effective against archers.
The Egyptian War Chariot is already immune to first strikes. It has a 20% chance of withdrawl without any promotions. With Flanking II, that goes up to a 50% chance of withdrawl. If it does withdraw, it is going to have something like 0.2 health remaining ...

I think I would lean towards a Combat I promotion, with maybe Cover if it survives. City Raider promotions would be good if we had some Axe or Swordsmen.

But Rigth now we do not need axes, as chariots will cheaper, have the same base STR and get to Cathy mach faster.War Chariots are my first choice, but I'm not sure that we can rule out Axemen. With only one promotion, a base 5 Axeman with City Raider I has an effective strength of 6, versus 5.5 for a War Chariot with Combat I. Plus, if Cathy has built any Spearman, then our Chariots will pretty much be useless.

Situation Assessment: After a lot of thought I decide to switch from Writing to Bronze Working. If we were not preparing for war or if Catherine hadn't just finished it and given us Open Borders I would have finished Writing. The only thing we are getting out of Writing at the moment is the ability to build libraries which we don't plan to do right now while Bronze allows us to chop which we might want to do, slavery which could be really helpful, to see where the bronze is.


Objectives: Explore the south and settle green dot.

Turn 0 - 2500BC: Change research to Bronze Working and move warrior in Thebes North to fog bust for Settler who will be done in 2 turns.

Turn 1 - 2470BC: Start the march through Russian lands and worker prepares to connect the 2 rivers which will speed up city/horse connecting.

Turn 2 - 2440BC: Settler is finished start work on Barracks currently due in 18.

Turn 4 - 2380BC: Found Memphis and start construction of a Barracks.

Turn 5 - 2350BC: I am walking through Catherine's land when suddenly....
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9549/civ4screenshot00423pp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
...an unprotected worker in a spot where I should be able to make a worker steal without getting attacked on that same turn. And also a jungle covered hill one tile away that I can go to in the turn after to give me the edge in a battle with an archer. I gravely apologize if my play style is too aggressive but this opportunity to cripple Catherine looks too good to pass up so I start moving my warrior out of Russian territory.

Turn 7 - 2290BC Our warriors move into attack and defensive positions.

Turn 8 - 2260BC: Thebes grows to size 4, barracks will now complete in 8 turns.

The warrior is in position as the Russian worker mindlessly goes about his road building and I declare war and attack.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9817/civ4screenshot00446fu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Turn 9 - 2230BC: Our warrior celebrates his worker win by moving to the jungle hill and prepares himself for an assault that may come next turn from Moscow.

Turn 10 - 2200BC: No attack comes and our warrior fortifies

Turn 11 - 2170BC: Catherine apparently had no idea where our warrior was even though it was in her land and moved a scout one square away from him. :crazyeye:

I attack and win, but just barely with .3 life left. Perhaps she was just sacrificing scout to get me wounded.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/4149/civ4screenshot00496lq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Turn 12 - 2140BC: Memphis border expands putting the horse to include the horse in it radius. The worker will also complete the road connecting it to our capital this turn which means he can start the pasture next turn and as soon as it completes we will be able to pump out chariots from the capital which will have completed barracks and be at happiness limit with slavery available to whip one if we want.

Our brave nearly dead warrior doesn't get attacked and moves out onto the jungle hill and promotes to a Woodsman I.

IBT: HC adopts slavery so where ever he is he has now finished BW.

Turn 13 - 2110BC: Worker starts the pasture on the horse and will finish in 6 turns. Barracks will complete in 3 and we can build a warrior in 3 also so if we wanted we could get an extra defender/military happiness police built just in time to start our chariot push.

Turn 14 - 2080BC: zzzzzz

Turn 15 - 2050BC: Memphis grows to size 2. Catherine will now accept peace with us but doing so would trap our warrior and worker.

Final Thoughts: Barracks in Thebes will finish next turn as will Bronze Working. I suggest either fishing or go back and finish Writing next. I would probably do fishing and get at least one workboat out there looking for other people first then complete writing but that is just my opinion. I worked the stone tile to slow the growth of Thebes and to get the Barracks done quicker, we might want to switch that tile once we have an MP and can use the whip. Memphis also will need to switch tile usage around once the pasture is done.

I really had no intention of declaring on Catherine and I didn't get any of the exploration done I wanted to, but really felt the early worker steal/crippling effect was too good to let it go. We need a chariot down there as soon as possible to escort our worker home and get him developing our land as I didn't want to try to walk him home with just a single warrior.

The fact that no one came from the south (assuming Catherine would have signed Open Borders with them also) leads me to believe we are on an island alone with her but this could easily be wrong. It could be Tokugawa down there and he just didn't want Open Borders or it could be anyone and they just didn't make it through her land to where we were yet.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/6762/civ4screenshot00501je.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1887/civ4screenshot00517eg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

great set of turns Harok.
I will play my set tommorow, I agree with your suggestions and will try to follow them

My main question ios am I doing 15 turns or 10?

plan
tech BW- Fishing - finish writting
Production focused on chariots- first one will go down to escort the worker back and find out how many of the enemy is in St pPetersburg, the warrior will then move to destroy roads and mines near moscow to disrupt production

The assault will probably be in the lap of the player after me

If anybody has anything else to add, do so

Blastoid, your plan sounds right.

We are going to need to be careful to make sure we don't tank our economy after conquering. Let's make sure we get a couple of good commerce cities up and going and let's definitely head towards CoL as soon as we can. What's the best path from here?

Soon as we have enough chariots I suggest a work boat to circle the island, then a third city at pink dot which the work boat can be used at.

COL then head to optics ?

Settle those gems for 4th city giving us a bit of a boost ?

@Team: Posting of screenshots is always good. :goodjob: It helps teammates and lurkers alike. However, all screenshots should be cropped/resized before posting to aid those of us with less than 20" monitors. A good rule of thumb is the width of any screenshot should not exceed 800 pixels.

I gravely apologize if my play style is too aggressive but this opportunity to cripple Catherine looks too good to pass up so I start moving my warrior out of Russian territory.You had a tough call to make. Normally, declaring war is one of those big decisions that we all need to make as a team. As a team, we had pretty much already decided that war with Cathy was inevitable. You only accellerated our timetable. :D

Settle those gems for 4th city giving us a bit of a boost ?I'm not sure where you are referring. Or did you mean the silver at red dot that Mutineer identified?

Although, hopefully our 3rd and 4th cities are called Moscow and St. Petersburg! :groucho:

For most of my turns (I didn't check right at the end) there were 2 unpromoted archers in St. Petes. They should be relatively easy to take out as long as we hit them before the 40% culture defense kicks in and they don't get promoted reinforcements. I think 4 or 5, at most 6 chariots would do it but they will probably have at least one more archer by then. I have no idea what is in Moscow as I didn't make it that far and was too scared of getting the warrior killed to scout more after declaring.

Production in Memphis should skyrocket once we get the horse and 2 cows developed.

EDIT >> I normally resize all my screenshots for the GOTMs but simply forgot last night. I will blame it on a long mothers day and I was tired and trying to finish up my writeup before falling asleep at the computer. ;)

I would never have declared war if there hadn't already been so much talk about doing it. I am pretty aggressive and a definite warmonger but I have at least a little restraint. :)

I meant near St.Petersburg which I would probably raze due to bad location and to save a garrison unit. 4th city won't be for some while yet anyway.

With the island to ourselves I think planning the exact city locations we want makes sense.

I am going to start playing soon. I will Raze St Petes if I get that far (depends on how many archers show up) and if copper does not change our plans.

Well this was a game of build up and waiting
My initial goals were to build up military and to get the worker back to our lands. To take out any wandering units of Cat and to take St Pete’s if she made a mistake and holds it too loosely.


I played 15 as it would even out the dates

T1 2020 talk to Cat, find that she has slavery (and therefore BW) her city placement then makes much more sense next turn. Barracks finish in Thebes start warrior

T2 1990 BW discovered revolt to slavery. Start fishing, Judaism FIDL. Look for copper and find it only NE of St. Pete’s.



T3 1960 Set research to 0%

T4 1930 set research to 100%, horse pasture finished, finish warrior in Thebes and garrison it there (for 1 happy) start war chariot. Thebes grows to five. Move worker to pasture two cows near Memphis

T5 1900 now 3 archers in St Petes

T7 1840 First chariot finished sent to join warrior NE of St. Pete’s, 4th archer appears in ST Pete’s. This keeps me from trying to move worker back across to our land as two archers could kill our chariot, take the worker and gain experience for a city garrison promo

T 8 1810 Fishing done, finish writing

T11 1720 War chariot 2 finished sent NE of St Pete’s

T12 1690 Move chariot onto copper to halt use of square and to try to lure out archers

T 14 1630 Writing finished, set to research Masonry next (for quarry on stone) we have not decided what to research at this point and masonry seems the most immediately useful to me, even if we do not want masonry next I set research back to 0% as we need funds anyway Only 13 beakers spent on masonry from overflow.

T 15 1600 our 3rd chariot finished, 5th archer appears in ST Pete's. I choose do not move units on last turn, next player can move them if he sees fit. Barbarian warrior approaches our troops NE of St. Pete's from the east see screenshot)

Barracks in Memphis finish in 1 turn, 2nd pasture for Memphis in 1-2 turns (I forget).
Thebes will jump in size in 3-4 turns causing an unhappy (may be time for the whip)
2 chariots are just north of St Pete’s, another ready to set out on his way. We have 4 warriors, and 3 chariots. Production should accelerate now as Memphis is ready to roll.
With two chariots we should be able to get that worker back to our lands now, I left the chariots with there mps so the next player can plan this how he chooses.

I have been waiting for Cat to do something, so we can give her some damage in the field and gain our chariots there second promotion but she does not seem to want to come out. Often the computer will come out when you are 2-3 squares away. It will be much easy to take her out if we can lure a couple of those archers into the field. How to do this?

When we get the worker out of there we should use the warrior to cut any roads between St. Pete’s and Moscow and try to take out some mines. I was itching to do this all turn but I could not afford to leave that worker alone.

Here is the world as we know it now
http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/1544/team110qm.th.jpg (http://img324.imageshack.us/my.php?image=team110qm.jpg)
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1069/team127tv.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=team127tv.jpg)
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7285/team137vo.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=team137vo.jpg)


and the link to the save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_BC1600_01.Civ4SavedGame

Good job blast.

I can't beleive Cathy has 5 archers in Moscow as well so maybe a minor detour when fetching the worker to check ? It may even draw something out of st.Peters.

I'm at work, so I haven't been able to check the file yet, but can play early tomorrow assuming we are good with basic plan.

It seems like Cathy is going pretty defensive, how many Chariots will it take to take down archers in St. Pete's on a hill and then Moscow on a hill? 2x of defenders right? That's a bunch of Chariot building needed. Maybe we go for peace in between to try to extract a tech. I'll try to get upgrades off of barbs, but this war is going to drag on a long time. Also, someone mentioned doing a lap with a workboat which is a good idea, but would slow down Chariot production.

After current research, suggestions on next research? I assume we are going to try to aim for CoL and then Optics. Looks like we'll need to get sea transport.

Also, someone mentioned raising St. Pete's? Or did I read that wrong. I would think we would keep that for the gems.

Wow, it seems like a bit of a tough situation. I like Strobe's idea of peeking at Moscow and see what happens. Looks like we are going to build chariots for a while...

Before going too much further I think we should agree on a research path. Coming back to Mutineer's suggestion:
a) Alpha - Drama - Meditation - Philosophy
b) Mathematics - Currency - CoL
c) Metal Casting - Machinery

Personally I am still debating between a and b, but I might prefer a since we need happy faces. What do you guys think?

Cathy build 5 archers because we attacked her, she had a lot of time to do that.
That is a problem with attacking with out good reason. Good reason is when you can steal worker and use it.
In our case we were not able to use worker, we only tell Cathy to build more defence.

I am undecided on tech choices. I would lean towards B but could easily be convinced otherwise, using the mathmatics as it increases chop effectiveness.


I think we should the three chariots and 1 warrior south of St petes and start pillaging Moscow, take out her mines and force some of her ints out or atleast seriously hinder her capabilites to create more. then these forces can come back and hit from the south of St Petes when the next wave hits from the north. If Moscow is lightly defended you could get really agressive and try to take it out but I bet she has 3 archers there.

T5 1900 now 3 archers in St Petes
T7 1840 4th archer appears in ST Pete's.
T 15 1600 5th archer appears in ST Pete's.Three Archers in 10 turns?!?!? That is some production that she has going on there. I'm assuming that she cracked the :whipped: in St. Petersburg. Blastoidstalker, did you notice a population drop, or was she sending reinforcements from Moscow?

I have been waiting for Cat to do something, so we can give her some damage in the field and gain our chariots there second promotion but she does not seem to want to come out. Often the computer will come out when you are 2-3 squares away. It will be much easy to take her out if we can lure a couple of those archers into the field. How to do this?Try moving the War Chariots closer. Put all 3 Chariots into a single stack and move them onto that cow tile outside of the city. She should keep 2 Archers fortified in the city for defense. I'd bet she will suicide the other 3 Archers onto the stack. Of course, the RNG may throw her a bit of luck and we lose a Chariot.

Ignore the barb Warrior. Let it come to you instead of chasing it.

T 14 1630 Writing finished, set to research Masonry next (for quarry on stone) we have not decided what to research at this point and masonry seems the most immediately useful to me, even if we do not want masonry next I set research back to 0% as we need funds anyway Only 13 beakers spent on masonry from overflow.I'd rather hold off on Masonry, per Mutineer's plan. On the off chance that we do manage to get a Great Prophet, he could get us half-way to Civil Service or some other useful tech. Mutineer, what are your thoughts?

Before going too much further I think we should agree on a research path. Coming back to Mutineer's suggestion:
a) Alpha - Drama - Meditation - Philosophy
b) Mathematics - Currency - CoL
c) Metal Casting - Machinery

Personally I am still debating between a and b, but I might prefer a since we need happy faces. What do you guys think?I like plan B for two reasons. First, I think Courthouses (CoL) will be needed before Pacifism, as Pacifism has double unit costs. Secondly, it gets us Mathematics, which is the one of the prerequisites to Construction. Now, I'm not saying we research Construction right now. But if it comes up that we need Catapults against Cathy then we are that much closer to getting them.

If we do go with plan A and research Alphabet, I would suggest that we prioritize a Work Boat and see what (and who) might be beyond this little island of ours.

Please, do not be afraid of Pacifism double usint cost. It is useally more then compensate for that by beeing no upkeep civic.

I think our first priority should be happiness. Right now it is the most limiting factor. So, Even we wasted time of Bronse working I still believe that Alphavit-Dramma-Mathematic-Philosofy is the best plan for as.

We can switch Mathematic around, but again, I do not see mach forest that we could chop around. Forest at capital needed for health.

Taoism will help with happiness to. We have no chance to get Confusionism right now.

I am not sure how we wasted time getting Bronze Working. Did we not want to know she had bronze NE of St. Petes. What we need to do is start using the advantages BW gave us and crack the whip and maybe get a chop or 2 to hurry some more chariots and get that worker home. If we move a single chariot next to the city and another a tile away she should attack with an archer, and we should win easily. At that point she may or may not attack with another. If she does attack again she will have the advantage and we may lose but the 2nd chariot can kill the archer easily and go pick up the worker. That would be a 2 archer for 1 chariot trade. Worst case is 1 for 1. The AI normally won't come out of its shell with less than 4 units.

And if we hadn't attacked when we did that bronze would have been hooked up and we would be facing spears instead of archers.

I don't understand the big pacifism push. Do we really need 100% GP birth rate or is it for the religion?

IMO we need to get the worker home get serious about putting some pain on Catherine even if it just means pillaging Moscow and taking 1 city, get a boat out there looking for others and then start a serious tech push. Alphabet seems like a solid tech for now as we can try to get a tech from Catherine and hopefully by then we will have a boat out there who might have found another civ or 2.

As for suggested tech paths I like B but might go Alphabet first then start down that path.

Please, do not be afraid of Pacifism double usint cost. It is useally more then compensate for that by beeing no upkeep civic.

I think our first priority should be happiness. Right now it is the most limiting factor. So, Even we wasted time of Bronse working I still believe that Alphavit-Dramma-Mathematic-Philosofy is the best plan for as.As I read your posts, I really get the sense that you have an idea for a plan that extends beyond Theatres and the Pacifism civic. I imagine that it has something to do with your earlier post about using Great Prophets for research. Would it be possible, Mutineer, for you to elaborate on your plan? Say we get to Philosophy, then what?

...and maybe get a chop or 2 to hurry some more chariots...With all of those flood plains around Thebes, I would be wary of any chopping. And, I don't know that I would do very much chopping up around Memphis, either. My vote would be to have the Worker build some roads heading east to speed the Chariots to the front ...

We currently have a happiness problem. Even if we take Cathy fast (Look much less likly now) we will have potentially only 2 happiness sources.
That is not enogth. By rejecting early religion/Oracle route we deprive ourself from Col.
Col try Mathematic-Currency takes to mach time.

The only resonable route to get happiness is to go Alphavit-Dramma.

Dramma + cheap theaters will give as +2 happy for every 10% of slider.

It is profitable up to 30% slider, giving as potentially +6 happy.

Dramma open philosofy (So long as we know Mathematic) to be get by GS instantly. Philosofy will give as religion - instant + 1 happy.

IN short, that will solve our happiness problem. In addition philosofy give as Taoism.
IN process we can research/Trade Masonry and build piramid.

Combination of representation/pacifism will give as reseach machine to carry as in a future with a speed of ligth, no matter what pach we take.

Problem is, by delaying Absolutly critical alphavit and researchng finishng/Bronseworking ourself we remove posibility to obtain this tech from Cathy and wasted time.
Attacking Cathy cause her to build a lot of defence, making military blits dificult and practically stail as in halt. Rigth now I am not sure with out looking on save what options are still avalible to as. I am at work at the moment. But as I see it Piramid/pacifism is our best option. However, I am not sure is it avalible right now, as we stend time on baracks/military. we did not develop to build piramids now and by attack Cathy prematurelly we cause her to build a lot of defence, making our military plan mach less effective.

I feel the best bet is to continue with military plan why researching Alphavit then Masonry, if we will not be able to get anything from Cathy and no one build piramid befor as. But seens we wasted time reseaching finsihg/bronse working I am not sure it will work.

I feel the best bet is to continue with military plan why researching Alphavit then Masonry, if we will not be able to get anything from Cathy and no one build piramid befor as. But seens we wasted time reseaching finsihg/bronse working I am not sure it will work.Well, since we are already researching Masonry, wouldn't it make sense to finish that before Aphabet? It seems to me we could start on the Pyramids that much sooner ...

Idea was to concentrate on military, to finish Cathy early by using out UU. If we go piramid first, then this is going away.
You finish researching all worker tech, that is allways inefficient.

let us focus on what we need to do in the current situation and not complain about decisions other have made in the past.

We will need to adress the happiness problem at some point but I think removing Cat is a bigger priority. Our cities have good resource tiles and the ability to use them all currently.

ways to gain some happy

1) Get gems from Cat. The one near moscow is not covered by jungle if i rember correctly. So by conquering moscow we can gain one happy, and and extra with forges later.

2) Pyramids = representation = 2 happy

3) Theatres - Happy with culture slider (we do not have Dyes though)

4) religion- Confucianism or Taoism 1 happy (an additional with temple)


number one fits with our current strategy of military take over and we are planning to win by domination anyway
numbers 2-4 we can not control and I think Mutineer is right that we will not get confucianism. But COL still will be usefull, but not yet.
number 3 we need to do at some point, i just do not know if we need it now.
number 2 really seems atrtractive to me but I am not sure if we can pull it off and the war at the same time

I am wondering that if Cat doesn't attack us when we try to move the worker back (which I assume will happen early next turn as we finaly have 2 war chariots down there) that we forgo St Pete's for now and go after Moscow. It will at least get her moving.
I also strongly suggest whipping in Thebes soon.

I'm assuming that she cracked the :whipped: in St. Petersburg. Blastoidstalker, did you notice a population drop, or was she sending reinforcements from Moscow?


I forgot to look for that, I never though to look for that before. Great point and this is why i like these games, you learn new things every time!

I have been itching to move that southern warrior back east to check for roads to cut, but i have been to chicken to lose that worker

I don't see that we have a happiness issue right now. And if we get unhappy people that is what the whip is for as we could use some sped up chariots or a library. We will get a religion from somewhere before we have serious issues with happiness and can get to theaters also but I don't see it as a pressing issue right now.

As for Alphabet I have played many games on a land mass with just one civ and they have never once traded me any tech until they meet someone else. This is because they think they have a monopoly on the tech and AIs don't trade techs when they think they are the only one with it. Maybe I was just unlucky in all these cases. I would really like to be wrong on this one as it wouldn't handicap me in future games. I will try to create a map tomorrow night with only me and one civ with no contact from anyone else and see if they will trade any of them until they finally meet someone.

Any thoughts on prioritizing Lit and going for the Great Library? We don't have marble so it will be quite a build and the GS points would be great. I would probably not try it in a single player game but thought I would bring it up anyway.

EDIT >> I knew there was somewhere I heard a lot of the AI not trading if you are alone with it and it was GOTM1 where we were alone on a continent with one civ. Tons of people complained about getting to Alphabet early and getting no trades. Example post - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3390299&postcount=51

Lots of posts about it on this thread -
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144187&page=2&highlight=GOTM+1

But it is possible this was changed at some point....I admit I started ignoring Alphabet if land locked with one AI so it has been awhile since I tried.

I think there is a good chance that cathy moved archers from moscow and it will be lighter defended, certainly worth a look when we fetch our worker.

If we do get the worker then use it to build a road up to our capital to speed deployment of the troops.

I don't think we should sue for peace (or certainly not plan for it), I think we just need to end this war as quick as possible and have a good think about how we move forward from here.

With such an easy start and good land, I'm betting we won't meet anyone until optics.

We have a lot of food so happiness will be an issue and restrict us. Finishing this war is absolute priority though, whip, beg and pray to the RNG gods as much as possible. I really don't want to have to think/worry about Cathy while trying to get tech moving in an isolated start. More discussion needed I think.

I wouldn't have thought pyramids was possible with this war ?

Harok, Im interested in the tech trade problem. I was actually thinking before we started war to finish alphabet research and attempt to trade it with Cathy 1 turn before war. Wouldn't normally do this but as she is about to die and has no contact with other civs it would not have been a problem and would probably have given us all her tech.

Sorry - I have to run so my write up is going to be a bit weak...

Played my turns -

Turn 80, 1600 BC: Catherine's Archer (3.00) vs Team One's War Chariot (5.50)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Combat Odds: 1.3%
Turn 80, 1600 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Team One's War Chariot has defeated Catherine's Archer!
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Team One's War Chariot (5.00)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 80, 1600 BC: Team One's War Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Barb warrior and one archer from St. Pete's suicide on Chariots

1560 - Escorting worker back

1520 - zzzz

1480 - chariot finishes in Thebes, whip another, economy in trouble

1450 - chariot in Thebes

1420 - zzzzz

1390 - down to 70% research, thebes has another chariot, moscow has 3 archers, petes has 4

1360 - war char memphis, moscow finishes settler
Turn 88, 1360 BC: You have discovered Masonry!

1330 - started math, found novgard, looking like an island

1300 - dang 4th archer in moscow
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!

1270 - settler and archer leave moscow (???), capture them
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Team One's War Chariot (5.50) vs Catherine's Archer (3.00)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Combat Odds: 98.7%
Turn 91, 1270 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Team One's War Chariot has defeated Catherine's Archer!

1240 - war char done in Thebes

1210 - starting workboat in Memphis

1180 - another archer appears in Moscow (ugh)

1150 - Archer leaves moscow, battle is on... and we have moscow

There are a couple of people left to move this turn and we need to move into Moscow - I didn't have time to finish.

I'll try to write up thoughts later (at work).

Link to save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_BC1150_01.Civ4SavedGame

Great Job Doc. So we have taken Moscow I assume Novguard is to the South. This should be the start of the end for Cat. We should get St. Petes next and get those gems hooked back to our lands ASAP. How many chariots did you have outside of moscow and how many did you lose?

1150 - Archer leaves moscow, battle is on... and we have moscowYou captured Moscow? :goodjob:

How many chariots did you have outside of moscow and how many did you lose?And, how many Archers did Catherine have defending?

1270 - settler and archer leave moscow (???), capture themI take it this means that Cathy is down to just the one city, St. Petersburg?

1480 - ... economy in trouble ...
1390 - down to 70% researchI think this may settle the debate on what to research next ...

If our economy was in trouble before capturing Moscow, then we definitely need to beeline to Courthouses. However, I would not consider 70% to be "in trouble" at this stage of the game. Especially considering that once the war is over, all of our troops will be back inside of our borders. We are probably paying a fortune for troop supply costs.

Roster Check:
Mutineer - On Deck
Strobe
Conroe
Harok
Blastoidstalker
Doc TK - Just Played
amh52 - UP

GOTM Results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)

If I read that score graph correctly, we are in 2nd place!

And, how many Archers did Catherine have defending?
I think from his report it was 3

I take it this means that Cathy is down to just the one city, St. Petersburg?

Doc mentioned finding Novguard, which is to the south?

I think this may settle the debate on what to research next ...

If our economy was in trouble before capturing Moscow, then we definitely need to beeline to Courthouses. However, I would not consider 70% to be "in trouble" at this stage of the game. Especially considering that once the war is over, all of our troops will be back inside of our borders. We are probably paying a fortune for troop supply costs.

I think most of the cost now if troop, but this will change when moscow moves our of rebellion. I am thinking the mathmatics-currency-COL route.

We may want to shoot for pyramids once we have enough troops for the war. We need to make sure to get the stone quarry on line before chopping for the wonder. I would put it Memphis.

Thanks, blastoidstalker. Evidently, I missed a lot reading his report, I should probably go back and re-read it. :blush:

I should be able to play tonight. We'll see what I find as the situation on the battle field is not very clear to me right now. I certainly hope we have Moscow, that would be cool. What do we want to build there once it comes out of revolt?

I'll make sure to hook up the stone and we'll see if I can do the gems too. And I guess I'll research Currency next.

Once finished the workboat will go up north and explore what's on the other side of the mountains.

I can't say about the Pyramids as I don't know how many more chariots we'll need. On the other hand we are building a workboat in Memphis already so we could build the Pyramids afterwards.

We do have Moscow now. Great job Doc TK.

One thing to think about is getting a library built in Thebes and maybe a cottage or 2 more if we haven't built any lately (we only had 1 when I played my turns). And one thing I love to do is put a citizen or 2 as Scientist specialists after building the library to get an academy which would really boost our science rate.

It would also be great if we could check out the southern city as it appears to have copper and see if they have tried to mine it. Not much to do. ;)

Sorry for the poor write-up. Yes we took Moscow.

There were 3 archers defending when I attacked (with six Chariots). Worst odds were 10 or 12% or something. We actually got pretty lucky on the attack winning one battle at 21% and getting one withdrawl. I think we have 7 Chariots left (five near Moscow) with most upgraded. I could be off by one.

Novgord is south east of Moscow. 2 Archers, easy to take, but it is small (size one or two) and not much around it except copper which is not hooked up.

Most of the cost is troops, but with Moscow and possibly St. Pete's we'll have city cost. I like the Math-Currency-CoL route. One deviation - we need to get Sailing. We will have happiness problems with 2 happy resources, so we need to explore the land south west of us for happiness. Maybe we'll meet some new folks as well.

Stone is on its way. We have 4 workers but two are by Moscow so they either need escorts or have to stay and work Moscow, i.e., no chopping for Thebes to get Pyramids.

Pyramids would be GREAT to get, are we too late? Even if we miss, we still would get lots of dollars. Of course, I'd also like to see a library in Thebes.

We can easily kill Novogord. If we can get an archer to leave St. Pete's we can kill it with current number of Chariots. I'm not sure that we should be building many more Chariots.

So, I'm currently thinking that we go for St. Petes escort workers on the way (need 7-8 Chariots). Switch to Sailing. Go for library then Pyramids. Get a Galley when Sailing is done.

GOTM Results page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php)

If I read that score graph correctly, we are in 2nd place!

Check out the power graph....we are massively spiked over everyone.

I think we are off to a very solid start and just need to continue taking out Catherine and get a work boat or galley if we go sailing (I'm not positive we need it right now as work boats are cheaper and explore just as well) exploring and really get cranking on our science output. We might be too late on the Pyramids I'm not positive as I rarely try for it. I am not too big on wonder building but don't mind going for either Pyramids or Great Library as I think they are 2 of the best wonders.

I think the idea behind sailing is to be able to transport troops to wherever we may discover. The war chariot will not be usefull forever. It will win us this war but probably not another unless we can transport across very soon.
Going for it woukd sugeest to me a very agressive miliatary path, but if we want fastest domination we need to be very agresive.
I am not saying it is the right move, I honestly do not know in this one, but is an intersting option to consider.

WE do not need sayling for scouting, work boat will do that.
There are absolutly no need for sailing right now.

I agree with Mutineer, I would suggest holding off on Sailing until we get that work boat out and exploring. If it finds someone we want to go after then we could either try to trade Sailing with them (if we get Alphabet or they do) or research it then. It all depends on what the work boat finds, but I would hate to do a tech now that ends up not helping at all.

I played my bit. The file is uploaded. It went pretty well but somehow our progress on the power chart went the wrong way.

I'll post more details tomorrow. Here is a quick summary:
- I captured and razed StPetes in 880BC losing 3 chariots (from about 9) to her 3 (she had just sacrificed 3 others by attacking out)
- I started the Pyramids in Memphis but didn't have much time to work on it. Somebody finished it in 940BC. I am not sure it was a good idea but at least we got some cash for it.
- The same year the Oracle was finished and Confucianism was founded. HC converts the following turn.
- The workboat didn't find anything beyond the mountains, just water.
- We are now building 3 Libraries in Thebes, Memphis and Moscow. The one in Memphis could be finished next turn by using the whip.
- It should be easy to finish Cathy now as she still had only 2 archers in Novgrod last time I checked.
- The extra cash from the capture of Moscow, StPetes and from the Pyramids allowed me to keep research at 100%. We are 4 turns away from Mathematics.
- Main problem is still happiness.

The link is here:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Team_One_SG001_BC0850_01.Civ4SavedGame

Pre turn.

I really do not undestand building Libraries in any city exept our capital.
All this cottages made it commercial centre, when others are not. We desperatly need to expand, we definatly overproduce army, we really did not need that many chariots.
Changed libraries to Granaries.

After looking on save I had to reconsider sailing. Not for perpouse of trade or exploation, but for purpouse of our interciv trade NW.
WE desperatly need happiness and when I count Number of turns needed to connect Moscow with it's gems to our capital....
T2 took and Keep Novgorod.

I really do not undestand why we raised Petersburg. We own only 4 cities Now, and even Nowgorod is not far away. It is on correct spot and will give as access to cooper.

T4 Mathematic-Sailing

Whiped 2 granaries.
T9 sailing-Currency
I dislike this way, but we are commited to currency-col research path.

Gems connected to our mainland. WE desperatly need to expand. There new recomended Dot map.

Thiebes clearly destignated as reseath centre, Memphis as industrial.

I would sugges to use Memphis to produce couple of setlers in a hurry.
We migth want to settle silver(red) dot first in order to increase happiness by one as fast as posible.

Here is propouse dot map.
I would suggest to settle Red dot first. I will be a bad city, but we desperatly need happiness. Next I would suggest to settle any food ritch spot for GP production.

There choise between 2 a bit cramped spots and yellow dot.
Yellow dot look like very promising GP farm, but th eonly think I am afraid of is health issue. No health bonuses and 7 floodplan in a fat cross.

Turn 112, 820 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Memphis. Work has now begun on a Library.

Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot (5.50) vs Catherine's Archer (5.85)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Combat Odds: 33.8%
Turn 113, 805 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer has defeated Team One's War Chariot!
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot (5.50) vs Catherine's Archer (5.85)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Combat Odds: 33.8%
Turn 113, 805 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Team One's War Chariot is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 113, 805 BC: Catherine's Archer is hit for 19 (5/100HP)