I know the systems specs are not set yet for Civ 4 but I am buying either a MacBook or MacBook Pro this week. The MacBook has integrated graphics. How likely is it that it will be able to run Civ 4? Since I'm intending this computer to replace both my iBook and desktop computer (and a PC) I would opt for a MBP if the MacBook can not handle Civ 4.

The MacBook uses the same Intel GMA950 graphics as the Mini. And Brad has said this regarding the Mini:

I honestly don't know. My hunch is that it will push any 3D card pretty hard, and the 3D chip in the new Mini is weak in all the areas that Civ4 needs (hardware TCL, vertex shaders and lots of VRAM). We'll have to wait until one arrives at Aspyr World Headquarters and Civ4 gets closer to release. With that said, I would not buy a Mac mini with the sole expectation of playing Civ4 (or really any modern 3D games) - that way lies sorrow.
So I'd say you will probably be well-advised to get the MBP instead, unless Brad has an update to that statement.

I should add that I have a 2 or 3 year old Dell that I'm also hoping to get rid of after I purchase the MacBook or MBP. That machine has integrated graphics and strained to run Civ 4. Then I upped the RAM to over 1 GB and it now does an adequate job of it. Would the same be true for the Mac version and the MacBook? That is, even with the integrated graphics, if I have enough system memory it would be ok?

Similar, I would imagine, and in the absence of any real data.

But if you're buying a new machine, do you really only want it to do an "adequate job" of running today's version of Civ4? I expect a Mac to give me at least four or five years of useful service, so I have never bought at the low end of the Mac product line. My current five year old G4 tower is around the end of its life now, and it's actually the graphics capability that is letting me down first, as it won't be able to run Civ4 and can't be upgraded to do so.

I would recommend you to get the Pro if you can possibly afford to, as the base level model will probably have to be replaced before its time in order to play Civ5 or whatever.

I'm in the same position as NoMan. In my case, though, I really like smaller laptops, and don't want to lug around a MBP, so it's get a new MacBook or try and eek some more life out of my 12" iBook until the new 13" Mac portables get some better graphics. (Maybe there's an 13" MBP somewhere on the Apple roadmap...)

If I do get a MB now, though, I'm willing to compromise, though, and turn off some of the eye candy in Civ IV if it still results in a playable game.... How likely will that be?

My current five year old G4 tower is around the end of its life now, and it's actually the graphics capability that is letting me down first, as it won't be able to run Civ4 and can't be upgraded to do so.

Can't you just swap out the graphics card?

I understand and agree with the point about not getting the bottom of the line. Howerver, it's not just that the MacBook is cheaper. It also has increased portability (i.e. I can actually open the lid in coach), increased battery life, and only uses 65 W so I can buy a power inverter that will actually work on a plane when I get to fly business class. So I think the MacBook is actually better at being a portable computer than the MBP. But obviously not as good as a desktop replacement.

The argument for extended useful lifetime is a good one. If it wasn't for Civ4 I would still buy a MacBook. But now I lean toward the MBP.

Can't you just swap out the graphics card?
I already did. My G4 Sawtooth is upgraded with a 1 GHz CPU and a Geforce 4MX graphics card. I run two 17" TFT screens off it, and it does everything I ask of it today. But it will be rendered obsolete by a $50 game within the next few months because the 4MX won't handle Civ4 - it only has 32 MBytes of video RAM. The CPU is probably marginal as well.

The Sawtooth has a stunted AGP interface that cannot take a full AGP card. There are people who have fitted them, but it involves taking a hacksaw to a $200 card, and I'm not about to take that kind of risk. I'd rather put the $200 into a fund for a new Mac that'll take me forward into the brave new world of Intellimacs.

[EDIT] But I'll hang on until Apple gets the next chips out of Intel, I think. I don't need a portable, and I'm guessing the desktop game will really get interesting when Conroe emerges.

The Sawtooth has a stunted AGP interface that cannot take a full AGP card. There are people who have fitted them, but it involves taking a hacksaw to a $200 card, and I'm not about to take that kind of risk.

I'm not sure what you mean by "stunted" but if you're talking about the slot being only a 2X AGP slot, there are still a couple of options for you to upgrade to. Mainly ATI's Radeon 9700 Pro and 9800 Pro Mac Editions. Both support 2X AGP and have 128MB of VRAM and would outpace the 4MX you have now. Plus (and MOST importantly) they'd be plenty good enough for CIV.

JoAT

Interesting, I hadn't found any higher spec products for the Sawtooth when I last searched. I guess it only serves to remind me of the value in buying an extendable Mac. Upping the graphics in that way in any MacBook would be impossible.

However, the 8000 option would cost at least $300 by the time I paid transatlantic shipping and import duty, so I don't see that as a viable investment to put into a five year old machine with an obsolescent CPU. If the only reason to buy it is to run Civ4 that would be a ridiculous price to pay for a game! I'd rather put it towards a shiny new Intel Mac, and reconfigure this one as a server.

However, the 8000 option would cost at least $300 by the time I paid transatlantic shipping and import duty, so I don't see that as a viable investment to put into a five year old machine with an obsolescent CPU. If the only reason to buy it is to run Civ4 that would be a ridiculous price to pay for a game! I'd rather put it towards a shiny new Intel Mac, and reconfigure this one as a server.

True. The value equation of upgrading aging computers is sketchy business. In your case spending $300 on the Sawtooth at this point seems like its not the best use of your dollars (or pounds as it may be.) That said, seeing as neither of the 2 options I pointed out is available brand new anymore, you may want to search eBay UK or other places on that side of the pond for a deal.

Pulling this thread back toward the original post, I would also expect the MacBook to be a poor performer with CIV. While I am not a fan of Apple using the integrated intel graphics, I can understand using them in their low end laptop line. I don't like it, but I understand it. ;) What I still can't fathom is why they did it to the Mini though, other than thinking of their own bottom line...

JoAT

I've solved my problem by finding an insanely good deal on a used 12" PB (1.5 GHz, the latest model before the switch). I'm getting it for quite a bit less than a MacBook. It only has 64 MB VRAM, but it's not shared, and the nVidia GeForce FX Go5200 card in it ought to at least meet the minimum requirements for Civ IV, and ought to do better than a MacBook would have.

Of course, buying a PPC in the midst of the Intel switch probably means that I won't be keeping this one for 3+ years like I kept my current iBook, but I'm willing to tolerate that to get what I want.

Getting the top-of-the line models and keeping them for a number of years is a valid strategy, but I've had success buying lower end equipment and trading up every year or two. I think I end up paying less than soemone who buys the top of the line, and keeping somewhat current in the process. To each his own, I guess....

Maybe now that C3C will play smoother for me, I'll play in a few GOTM's again....

What's happened to Brad? He hasn't been heard of recently on the forums. I'd really like to know about how Civ4 will operate on the new MacBooks because I'm seriously considering purchasing one too, and I'd like to be able to play it.

Obviously I can't comment on how Civ IV for Mac will perform on the MacBook, but I can tell you this much... I picked up a 1.83 MacBook on Saturday, and by Sunday night had XP running under Bootcamp, and Civ IV running on XP. It performs pretty well. I turned everything up to maximum, and found that when I exited my first game it had decided to set things to a more realistic and achievable setting, which in this case was everything on medium.

So you're not gonna get the best of the best for graphics, but on medium, everything runs smoothly and snappily.

I wonder if popping in more than the stock 512 will make any difference in that regard.... hopefully I'll find out soon.

But, at least on that front, there is hope for Civ IV running on the MacBook.

Totalshock,

Please let us know when you up your MacBook RAM. I am very interested in your results.

Thanks

Obviously I can't comment on how Civ IV for Mac will perform on the MacBook, but I can tell you this much... I picked up a 1.83 MacBook on Saturday, and by Sunday night had XP running under Bootcamp, and Civ IV running on XP. It performs pretty well. I turned everything up to maximum, and found that when I exited my first game it had decided to set things to a more realistic and achievable setting, which in this case was everything on medium.

So you're not gonna get the best of the best for graphics, but on medium, everything runs smoothly and snappily.

I wonder if popping in more than the stock 512 will make any difference in that regard.... hopefully I'll find out soon.

But, at least on that front, there is hope for Civ IV running on the MacBook.

I purchased an MBPro partly due to the advice in this thread. Now that the system requirements are out it looks like that advice was very good. Thanks.

According to the Aspyr web site the release should be in 4 to 6 weeks. I'll be travelling with my MBP in June and will try the PC version with Boot Camp. I'll be purchasing the Mac version soon after it comes out.

So when I get Civ IV, which machine will it run worse on - a new MacBook which meets the CPU requirements but not the GPU or a five-year-old dual 800 Quicksilver with a GeForce3 card which pretty much meets the GPU requirements but not the CPU?

As you all probably know, when the MacBook (or Intel Mini) is running OS X, the graphics card is limited to using only 64 MB of memory. But rumor has it that when running XP using BootCamp, this limitation is removed and the chip can make use of more system memory if available. So, Civ IV may perform better under XP than under OS X on a MacBook!

I don't understand why Apple chose to limit the memory that the chip can use, and I hope someone comes out with a hack soon!

I'm not sure that's true imadork regarding the graphics only being limited to 64MB - do you have a reference?

I've a 1.83Ghz MacBook on the way maxed out with 2GB of RAM. I still want to know if Civ 4 can be played at all on this configuration or if it actually REQUIRES a graphics card as listed at the Aspyr site. Surely Aspyr have tested this game on a MacBook by now - I'd love to hear from Brad on this.

You know, I hadn't intended to install BootCamp at all - but if Civ 4 will run in Windows on a MacBook but not in Mac OS X, I'm going to have to...

Gavin

I'm not sure that's true imadork regarding the graphics only being limited to 64MB - do you have a reference?


When the Mac Mini came out, it was quite clear in the Apple documentation that 64MB (+16 MB for setup) was the most that the GMA950 would ever see. When the MacBook came out, there was no mention that anything had changed.

However, in looking up a reference for you, it seems that I'm either remembering something incorrectly, or Apple has changed their mind, so I'll retract that statement for now, until I find out what happened.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303718


I've a 1.83Ghz MacBook on the way maxed out with 2GB of RAM. I still want to know if Civ 4 can be played at all on this configuration or if it actually REQUIRES a graphics card as listed at the Aspyr site. Surely Aspyr have tested this game on a MacBook by now - I'd love to hear from Brad on this.

You know, I hadn't intended to install BootCamp at all - but if Civ 4 will run in Windows on a MacBook but not in Mac OS X, I'm going to have to...

Gavin

Intel seems to think that chips in the 945 family (which the 950 is part of) are bad at Civ IV on the PC, due to low frame rate:

http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/intel945gm/sb/CS-021400.htm

Since they got that far, though, it probably means it's possible to play, right? ;)

Intel seems to think that chips in the 945 family (which the 950 is part of) are bad at Civ IV on the PC, due to low frame rate:

http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/intel945gm/sb/CS-021400.htm

Since they got that far, though, it probably means it's possible to play, right? ;)
The detail screen says it's "Unplayable"!

Gutted! :(

I have a 3 year old Dell with integrated graphics. Sorry, I don't know the details chipwise. Civ4 was unplayable until I updated the system RAM from 512 MB to 1.25 GB. Then it ran ok and I didn't have to use the lowest graphics settings. The only major glitches I noticed were the domination victory movie not playing and the wonder pop-ups are out of sync with the Nimoy voice-overs.

Based partly on advice on this thread, I purchased an MBP with a 256 MB dedicated graphics card. I installed Boot Camp and Civ4. I am amazed by the improved graphics. You can see the details on the individual trees in the jungles the hills have more fine detail, you can see the shadows from the sails on the ships and everything looks more 3D-like. But the gameplay is not markedly different (though I haven't had any battles yet).

My guess is Mac Civ4 will actually be playable on a MacBook with enough RAM. I'm sure Aspyr has tested this, I wish they would comment.

Edit:
The detail screen says it's "Unplayable"! I just saw this comment. It looks like my guess is wrong. No Civ 4 on MacBook

The detail screen says it's "Unplayable"!

Well, they claim there's a "low frame rate". The fact that there's any frame rate at all means it's able to be played, doesn't it? Does that mean it's playable? :crazyeye:

I messaged Aspyr about this, and below is their reply... although it still leaves me with questions

From : Aspyr Media, Inc. <info@aspyr.com>
Reply-To : "Aspyr Media, Inc." <info@aspyr.com>
Sent : Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:01:09 AM
To : oziserb@hotmail.com
Subject : [info #BUX-11990-452]: no subject

The new MacBooks have an unsupported Intel Graphics Processing Chip in them that
will not be supported for use with most of our games. So, the Pro is definitely
a better decision since it has an actual video card in it.

Well, they claim there's a "low frame rate". The fact that there's any frame rate at all means it's able to be played, doesn't it? Does that mean it's playable? :crazyeye:
Not just "low frame rate". They say:

Sid Meier's Civilization IV* game is not playable due to an extremely low frame rate (my emphasis). I guess their "not playable" assessment makes some assumption about people's patience, boredom threshold, or willingness to spend inordinate time waiting for screen updates. Maybe your patience level is beyond this range. How long are you prepared to wait for anything to happen on screen? At what point would you forget what you were tring to do? What's the mean time between crashes for Windows XP, and would it exceed the time to play one turn? :mischief:

Totalshock,

Please let us know when you up your MacBook RAM. I am very interested in your results.

Thanks

Got her set up with 2 gigs on board now. So under Boot Camp, running Win XP SP2 and the latest patch of Civ IV, the game is not just playable, it's quite nice. Still have to keep setting at "medium", but the game is snappy and responsive throughout.

Now... if only battery life wasn't so damned short under Boot Camp....

So it's not a matter of the Intel graphics crippling it, because it performs fine under Windows. However, it looks like the OS X version might not run on this machine. That's kinda ironic.

Any other questions, ask away.

Intel must be seriously mistaken then! That's good news :thumbsup:

And to add further to this, I found this on comp.sys.mac.games.strategic...

"I own an Intel Mac mini Core Duo processor and 1,25 GB RAM.
I came from normal PC and played Civ4 there for quite some time.
What I find interesting is this:

If you install Windows XP with bootCamp, install Civ4 with the latest
Patch and then play Civ4 - it works perfect.
Smooth scrolling, quite fast reactions even with great savegames etc.

I was surprised about that.
So, that might be an alternative for users with new Intel-Macs.

Benjamin"

I remain hopeful that Civ4 will play on the MacBook. I don't expect good performance but I still remain hopeful. I've 2GB of RAM waiting to go into my MacBook when it finally arrives - I think the laptop must be walking here from China!

None of which is good news for Aspyr, of course, as they don't show integrated graphics as an option. Even if it later transpires that they've significantly overstated the OS X system requirements, by the time they release Mac Civ4 a lot of people with new integrated graphics Macs will have bought the PC version to run under Boot Camp, and few will then bother to buy the Mac version as well.

Indeed. I really, really don't want to install BootCamp and I really, really don't want to start buying Windows software for my Mac. But I might have to make an exception. Since my Amiga 1200 I've had a system that's capable of playing the latest version of Civ.

Actually, and I don't think I'm the exception to this: I am happy to buy a Macintosh version of Civilization 4 from Aspyr that will function minimally well on a MacBook. But I will NOT purchase a PC version of Civilization 4 to play on my Mac.

Actually, I've decided that Windows isn't getting near my new MacBook (when it finally f***ing arrives!! 2 weeks since ordering and still waiting). So if I can't play Civ 4 under Mac OS X, I'll stick with C3C. Still plenty of challenge left in that.

I've solved my problem by finding an insanely good deal on a used 12" PB (1.5 GHz, the latest model before the switch). I'm getting it for quite a bit less than a MacBook. It only has 64 MB VRAM, but it's not shared, and the nVidia GeForce FX Go5200 card in it ought to at least meet the minimum requirements for Civ IV, and ought to do better than a MacBook would have.

One source of unending trouble for us in Mac Civ4 was the nVidia 5200 cards. To be specific, there are a number of driver bugs in 10.3.9 that when combined with the 5200 cause graphical errors in Civ4. If you have a 5200 card on the Mac and plan to run Civ4, you would be well advised to upgrade to 10.4.

My guess is Mac Civ4 will actually be playable on a MacBook with enough RAM. I'm sure Aspyr has tested this, I wish they would comment.

To be honest, I don't think we've ran Civ4 on a MacBook yet. The integrated video chips don't meet the minimum requirements for the PC (no hardware T&L) so we marked them as unsupported pretty early on. For it to run well, you'd need a beefy CPU to pick up the slack, since the video chips offload pretty much everything to the CPU that Civ4 needs.

Just to add my 2 cents.

I can run Civ4 1.61 uder Windows XP using Boot Camp on my MacBook with high settings and it is great. I have the 2.0GHz Core Duo and 2GB Ram. It is much, much better than on my Celeron 2.7GHz and PCI MX 4000 128MB. It is responsive, and the grahics look great. If I zoom in, the trees actually sway now.

About the 64MB limitation, in XP when I open up the Intel control panel, it says that 128MB is the max. I haven't had a chnace to look tehre during the game to see if it tells me how much is actually being used, but it appears that 128MB can be used in XP.

And sadly, I won't be buying the Mac version when it comes out, b/c I don't want to have to wait anotehr year to get Warlords. So I would rather run it udner XP and get Warlords than get the native version and not have the expansion for anotehr year.

This is encouraging news about the performance of MacBooks using XP and Civ 4. I know that Aspyr has labelled Civ 4 "unplayable" on the new MacBooks and that you don't think Civ 4 has even been tested yet on them (the Mac version, that is) -- but do you think you COULD test it on a MacBook? I know Aspyr is unlikely to lower system requirements for the game, but if the game is playable to a certain extent, I am very much more willing to buy the game for Mac then to resort to the XP / PC Civ 4 option.

-Alec

It was Intel who labeled Civ IV "Unplayable", and that was on Windows Machines with an earlier version of the graphics chipset in the MacBook....

Got her set up with 2 gigs on board now. So under Boot Camp, running Win XP SP2 and the latest patch of Civ IV, the game is not just playable, it's quite nice. Still have to keep setting at "medium", but the game is snappy and responsive throughout.

Now... if only battery life wasn't so damned short under Boot Camp....

So it's not a matter of the Intel graphics crippling it, because it performs fine under Windows. However, it looks like the OS X version might not run on this machine. That's kinda ironic.

Any other questions, ask away.

I'm having the problem that running Mac Civ 4 in OS X ends up heating up the machine so much that it crashes (I have a 2.0 ghz 2gb Macbook btw). Will I have the same problem running the PC version on BootCamp?

I'm having the problem that running Mac Civ 4 in OS X ends up heating up the machine so much that it crashes (I have a 2.0 ghz 2gb Macbook btw). Will I have the same problem running the PC version on BootCamp?

Have you ever used smcFanControl (http://81.169.182.62/~eidac/software/page5/page5.html) before? It has been getting some favorable comments over at Xlr8YourMac.com. Specially formulated for MacBooks and MacBook Pros, it may help with your overheating problem.

Plus it seems like a whole lot simpler aternative to try than buying Windows, the Windows version of CIV, and installing the whole mess... :)

Have you ever used smcFanControl (http://81.169.182.62/~eidac/software/page5/page5.html) before? It has been getting some favorable comments over at Xlr8YourMac.com. Specially formulated for MacBooks and MacBook Pros, it may help with your overheating problem.

Plus it seems like a whole lot simpler aternative to try than buying Windows, the Windows version of CIV, and installing the whole mess... :)

I have been using it. Cranked upto 6200 RPM and it still heats up to 75C and crashes Civ.

Is CIV the only thing that crashes the machine? Hows the heat with other programs?

Is CIV the only thing that crashes the machine? Hows the heat with other programs?

It is the only thing that heats up that high and crashes. Most of them Photoshop will have it into the 60's...but it'll be fine. Civ pulls it into the 70's and crashes it.

It is the only thing that heats up that high and crashes. Most of them Photoshop will have it into the 60's...but it'll be fine. Civ pulls it into the 70's and crashes it.

Which is odd because the chips are rated to 100 (C).

Certainly on my MacBook Pro (when I was watching these things) it would sit around 75 with both fans blasting while playing Civ IV (or with two instances of yes > dev/null running which would get it up to 78) for hours on end. But I have heard that MacBooks have had a few more heat related shutdown problems while the problems with the MacBook Pro were more aesthetic than functional.

Does your MacBook crash if you run two instances of yes in the terminal? If so it's a MacBook problem rather than a Civ IV one per se.

Which is odd because the chips are rated to 100 (C).

Certainly on my MacBook Pro (when I was watching these things) it would sit around 75 with both fans blasting while playing Civ IV (or with two instances of yes > dev/null running which would get it up to 78) for hours on end. But I have heard that MacBooks have had a few more heat related shutdown problems while the problems with the MacBook Pro were more aesthetic than functional.

Does your MacBook crash if you run two instances of yes in the terminal? If so it's a MacBook problem rather than a Civ IV one per se.

Nope. Ran it for half an hour and hit 80's. Must be Civ then?

FWIW, it runs fine on my MB. How much RAM do you have?

FWIW, it runs fine on my MB. How much RAM do you have?

2gigs of RAM on a 2.0 ghz macbook.

i have smcfancontrol running and i can see it creep upto 75C as I play and the status bar turns into the warning yellow colour. then the crashing.

As I have posted in other threads, Civ IV runs with no real problems on my wife's 2.0GHz MacBook with 1GB RAM, although it keeps the fan busy. Of course, it runs better on a supported machine (like my Mac Pro :D ).

Okay. At the advice of a friend, I switched the Energy Saving settings in the SYstem Prefernces to: Better Performances. No crashes at all now.

Okay. At the advice of a friend, I switched the Energy Saving settings in the SYstem Prefernces to: Better Performances. No crashes at all now.

I found out the same thing. Sorry I didn't mention it. How do you find the game works now? I found it to be entirely playable.

Hello all, I guess I just wanted to get some reconfirmation that it is in fact playable on a Macbook. I have 2GHz and 2 gigs of RAM; everyone made it sound like this should be enough, but I downloaded the Civ4 demo and I can see the units and buttons and some terrain overlays, but the terrain itself is all spotted black and fuzzy. I can perhaps get a screenshot later today.

I looked at the graphics settings and the resolution is on the lowest possible and everything else is on low as well. Any ideas? I'm hesitant to buy the game until I'm relatively sure I'll be able to play it.

Yes, it works fine.

@jamesjkirk: The demo display problems you describe have been well aired around here. I see exactly that on my Mac Pro. Admittedly it doesn't have the greatest GPU in the world, but it plays the full version of Civ4 very well. Your decision should be based on the experiece of Macbook users with the real software, and you should ignore the results you see with the demo.

Thanks for the quick replies. I was thinking it'd be all right based on what I read here and suddenly got worried. But I just ordered it from Amazon and with luck should be playing in a couple days with no hitches. Cheers.

I found out the same thing. Sorry I didn't mention it. How do you find the game works now? I found it to be entirely playable.

Fantastic. Although scrolling can lag sometimes -- maybe because I'm playing a game on a HUGE map with 16 civs?

I'm running Civ IV just fine.

My MacBook has 2 GB 667 MHz ram and a 160 GB hard drive. No problems so far. But as I'm on my first real game, all sorts of awful things could happen.

It runs slow, but it runs without problems. I've got it set on Medium graphics, with textures on low. I've turned off most animations and combat zoom. Oddly, even with combat zoom on, it never actually seemed to zoom in.

Macbook 2.0gHz, 1gig ram :)

I'm perfectly satisfied with the performance. After all, this is really a laptop for my girlfriend to use at work. The fact that it runs at all delights me.

Any hacks to allow the game to run at 800x600 on a macbook?
It does indeed run but it is slightly too laggy for multiplayer still.

Instead of opening a new thread...

It seems that the Macbooks are getting mixed performance reviews. Some can run CivIV, while others have troubles. I'm looking to purchase a new Mac soon (my first, but my gf is a long-time Mac user), and definitely want the portability of a notebook. While a MBP would be good, I'm hesitant on spending that kind of money on a computer that, realistically, does more than I need it to do.

Of course, I want to be able to play CivIV and future installments.

Right now I'm running my PC version of Civ on a 1.4GHz AMD 1600 chip, 768 MB RAM, and a 32MB Radeon 7200. I can run duel and tiny maps, and have even been able to do a small map with only two other civs, naturally all graphics settings on lowest, and a GREAT deal of patience. At this point, even a Macbook will be a huge improvement.

Anyone have something to add?

EDIT: Oh, and since I'm still wavering, any thoughts on purchasing a MBP refurb, either direct from Apple or an authorized reseller?

At this point, even a Macbook will be a huge improvement.
Not if it doesn't run at all.

Unless I've missed something, the latest patches don't run on a MacBook .. they crash. So unless Aspyr relent for future versions, you are stuck at version 2.00 of Warlords, and an early version of Civ4 vanilla v.1.61 that has sound issues.

If the MBP price is an issue then getting an Apple refurb is a good way to reduce it. I believe the refurbs are as good as new, and I've not heard any bad reports from people who bought them.

FWIW, in my 20 years of Mac ownership, anyone I knew who bought a minimum-spec Mac regretted it. Mid-range and high-end Macs usually meet your needs for longer, sustain higher resale values, and give better overall cost of ownership as a result. I do realise that doesn't help you if you can't raise enough cash now, of course :hmm:

Instead of opening a new thread...
[snip]
It seems that the Macbooks are getting mixed performance reviews. Some can run CivIV, while others have troubles. EDIT: Oh, and since I'm still wavering, any thoughts on purchasing a MBP refurb, either direct from Apple or an authorized reseller?

As Alan has now said, it seems that the latest versions of Civ IV and Warlords don't run at all on MacBooks. The performance is really excellent in BootCamp with XP and 2GB of RAM.

As for Apple refurbs, my experience has been great. I bought a MacBook as a secondary machine for testing as I'm a software developer but I'm very impressed with it - the machine itself was in brand new condition and it was packaged with new items (new PSU etc). Plus it comes with a full Apple warranty. If you get a good deal on an Apple refurb, I'd say go for it but some deals are better than others.

Gavin

I usually buy a refurb if possible. The savings are so significant and they come with full warranty as well as the ability to add Applecare.

I own a small publishing company and have been buying 2-5 macs a year for the last 23 years.

For what it's worth, our MacBook (purchased last November) does fine. It's certainly not a great 'immersive gaming experience', but I'm okay with that.

We've got a 2.0 gHz processor, and 1 gig of RAM. Vanilla (revA, I believe) is safe and crash-free. There are indeed sound glitches, but I usually play with sound off, and iTunes on anyway. Warlords, RevB and RevC are not compatible with my system. But I don't really care all that much, because I've got a little 4 pound notebook on which I can play my favorite game wirelessly for 1.5 hours :D

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

I'm not really a gamer (Civ is the pretty much the only franchise I've followed), and don't do any major video or animation work (not at present). I've played with iLife a bit, GarageBand, iMovie, etc., but have never had dedicated access to do seriously work with them. This is why the MB seems appropriate.

At the same time, long-term investment makes better sense. Maybe I'll want to play CivV in the future, or teach myself some video and animation. As a bit of a bonus, I do have access to educational pricing. Saving $200 or so helps a little. And so the MBP seems appropriate.

It's ridiculous that my decision relies so much on the GPU. I've been burned by an integrated processor before, and swore I would never purchase a computer with an integrated chip again. Now that it's time to choose...

Then you should not go with a MacBook!

My ONLY complaint about our laptop is the integrated graphics processor. If you can arrange a 10% discount, then spend as much as you can possibly afford, and buy the high-end machine. You'll be much happier in the long run. :old:

Then you should not go with a MacBook!

My ONLY complaint about our laptop is the integrated graphics processor. If you can arrange a 10% discount, then spend as much as you can possibly afford, and buy the high-end machine. You'll be much happier in the long run. :old:

My partner and I had a talk tonight about what we need, can afford, and future use. In the long run, we figure that I can use it for school and work, and she should be happy using it for her work. Cost is still an issue, so we're thinking that after adding a 2nd GB of RAM, the 2.16 GHz 15" MBP will suit us fine.

That will be a sweet machine.

I have bought about 6 refurbs for home and work in the last three years, they have all worked great, one was actually a MBP. I would check out getting the other 1 GB of RAM somewhere else. You definitely want 2 GBs, and it is really easy to add it yourself.

Yeah, I think that's best. There were some MBPs at the level I want in the Refurb store this morning. By the time I checked on buying additional RAM elsewhere, the ease of installation, and returned to the Apple store to check out, it had been sold. It had a glossy screen. :(

I guess what they say about the early bird is true.

You will see that happen almost daily. When I got my MBP (2.18 with the 100 GB 7200 speed drive vs. the 120GB 5400 speed drive), I had a few days where I didn't pull the trigger in the morning and they weren't available by the afternoon. Don't worry they will probably have a few more by tomorrow (or monday).

Hi all...

I JUST l(ike this early evenin') upgraded to the latest MacBook Pro... it has a 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (3GB), ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM...

and oh my GAWD is it sweet! Civ IV is a dream! will try warlords in a bit... cannot believe i played with an iBook G4 for as long as I did.

and thanks for the technical avice AlanH.

Hi all...

I JUST l(ike this early evenin') upgraded to the latest MacBook Pro... it has a 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (3GB), ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM...

Congratulations!
New of my own: this is what I'm getting, too. I've been watching the refurbished Mac store for a few days now, and I just this morning I got a great deal on the same computer. Mine will only have 2GB of RAM, but I can easily update that later.
Not sure when I'll be getting the Mac version of CivIV, but I do have a birthday in May...

one thing i have found with the Civ IV/Warlords on the mac I just got (see above posting by 2) is that after certain dialogue boxes it flips back to the screen and i get a scorched earth look that doesn't seem to want to leave.

what i mena by scorched earth look is that all cities and improvements (excluding roads) are black and this also includes the blue cheat circle for workers and settlers.

if i reload the game to an autosave it disappears. doesn't seem to be any pattern (three times thus far) but it tends to happen wel into the game.

any thoughts on this?

(P.S. I hope this is the appropriate forum for this query/note.)

Have you applied the latest patches?

re installing the latest patches... yup as per our PMs.

I assume from your description that you are seeing the old "black terrain" effect that plagued early versions. That needs to be reported to Aspyr support, as I'm pretty sure they thought they had nailed it in the patches. Send them screenshots, and assure them that you are not running any mods, otherwise they'll just tell you to remove the mods before they'll talk to you.

The black terrain bug is still there, i have them too.

okay... goofy question... how do you take a screen shot? lol :$

okay... goofy question... how do you take a screen shot? lol :$

Shift-option-3 for a screen shot and shift-option-4 to drag a box around a specific area.

... or control and the above to put the screenshot on the clipboard and save having lots of dumb files called 'Picture xxx.png' or whatever all over your desktop

For those who have Civ IV playing in bootcamp, is there anyway you could take a screen shot of what the graphics look like? I would love to see first hand what it looks like before I make my decision on either the macbook, or the 17 in. iMac with the radeon x1600. I would much prefer a portable however so it would be great if someone could take a quick screen.

Thanks alot!

too bad that now i'm in osx and can't get you the screenshot.. i have a new Macbook 2.1, got installed latest patch and warlords on win xp via bootcamp.. and it work flawlessly.. it might get heavier after late 1900s on large/huge map, but it's still really enjoyable and performance are much better than the demo i tried on mac from aspyr.. (never actually purchase mac version after they claimed it unplayable in macbook)

iMac with ATIRadeon would be much better

ah yes, in my macbook the animation details are excellent, e.g. tree animations, birds flying out from the tree when your scout stepped into the tile, your unit mini-animations, combats, zooming out to world view, and much more impressing details :goodjob:

enjoy

There is an application "Grab" in Applications/Utilities that I use for screenshots. First you use the Capture/Timed Screen. This gives you ten seconds to get to the screen you want (if you're using full screen; if you're using a window, use Capture/Window). Then you can crop the resulting image by using Capture/Selection. This produces a TIFF image. To get a JPG image, you open the TIFF image in Preview and then use Save As to save the TIFF image as a JPG image, which you can post on this site.

It took me a bit of research and experimentation to figure this out!

AlanH has a short cut, which avoids opening Grab, but I still think you end up with a TIFF image and have to go through Preview.

AlanH?

The previous poster was actually asking for a screenshot in Bootcamp, so OS X shortcuts and Grab would not help much.

FWIW, I work hard to avoid cluttering my desktop with surplus files. So my preferred short cut doesn't create a file at all until I want it to.

So, with extreme coordination and dexterity, and only when sober, I use Control-Command-Shift-4. This gives you a selection cursor, and puts your chosen area of the screen on your clipboard. You can then paste it straight into an email or another document without ever creating a TIFF file on your desktop.

Or you can "New from Clipboard" in Photoshop Elements or Preview, or maybe any other graphics application of your choice, to create an editable copy of the captured image. Then you can save it in a file format you prefer - jpeg or whatever, at the quality level you need and in a useful location on you hard drive.

Well, as to whether or not a Macbook will run Civ IV, it will, with great speed. But the Graphics look pretty sh#$ty, I own a macbook, the most recent one I believe. And I've seen the Civ IV graphics on an old dell, and they're even worse. So really if you can deal with this: (click for larger view)
http://www.mypicshare.com/thumbs/20070709/ldkg686o.jpg (http://www.mypicshare.com/ldkg686opic.html)
Instead of this:
http://www.mypicshare.com/thumbs/20070709/xc90s3k9.jpg (http://www.mypicshare.com/xc90s3k9pic.html)
You're in good shape. Most every other game I play runs with great graphics on this laptop though...I mostly play civIV on my iMac...

thanks alot for that comparison, and everyone else who commented...Kinda leaning towards the iMac.

thanks alot for that comparison, and everyone else who commented...Kinda leaning towards the iMac.

Anything for a fellow mac user...:goodjob:

For those who have Civ IV playing in bootcamp, is there anyway you could take a screen shot of what the graphics look like? I would love to see first hand what it looks like before I make my decision on either the macbook, or the 17 in. iMac with the radeon x1600. I would much prefer a portable however so it would be great if someone could take a quick screen.

Thanks alot!

My posts in this succession game (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=229131) are all played using bootcamp on the black macbook with an extra gig of RAM. Runs smoothly.

civ iv is an awesome game, (even though i'm still on the demo version) but its just that it's So good that causes it to slow. aspyr or firaxis should come up with a better version that takes up less space, but keep all the features.

Which features? Personally, I don't need the moving smoke or the moving sheep. But I am sure there are gamers who like the contribution to the atmosphere.

Unless you're saying the game was badly programmed, I can't see how you can ask for a version with all of the features and less space. And what slows the game down is the amount of computation that the game requires, especially late in the game, not the disk space.