The Offical Thread for Term 2 for the Defence Office

For the discussion of the moves and other options available to our 2 Epsilonian Warriors and any other (military) units that may fall under my domain.

It seems to be agreed in the Discussion thread that we want to give Dark Puma Woodsman 1 & 2 so that he will gain the ability to move twice in forest and Jungle, right? At this point in the game waiting so that the bonuses can be used better against barbarian warriors (and for healing, 2 promotions give a unit half his health back each promotion, so two promotions would yeild a 75% increase in health, which can come in handy with dealing with units of equal strength) would give less benefit than the extra move available on Forest and Jungle, right?

(picture from State of the Empire thread)
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6291/civ4screenshot00814hg.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00814hg.jpg)

Well technically that question is for term one but Azzman3333 seems to have gona MIA (as per his absence notice) so soem discussion is better than none.

Ultimately the most important part of the early game is exploration,espcially in multiplayer, hence the second warrior before our first worker

By giving our warrior those promotions he can move faster, and mayeb we can catch up on exploration (other teams who started with scouts could theoretically have twice as much map explored as us right now :eek: )

So although we are leading in tech, and empire size, what we lack is map intelligence, are we alone?

2 neighbours, 3? where are the choke points?

All of this comes faster with woodsman1 and woodsman2

Also a Woodsmans2 warrior on a forest/hills,

2 + 75% +50% = 4.5 Stength

If actually fortified = 5 Strength.

Yeah - I'd also like to speakup in favor of the Woodsman promotions.

Exploration is key in multiplayer. Even making contact with another team just a couple turns before someone else can be a huge advantage in terms of trade and relationship.

Remember that the fortified bonus takes time to build up, 5% every turn. But yes, I agree. Just making the case for both sides.

Turn 21 - 3160BC
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/288/civ4screenshot00983ph.th.jpg (http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00983ph.jpg)

Should Shadow Tiger go east, or circle west around the capital? There seems to be an unnatural wall of mountains directly south...

Well there will be one spot which lets us get Past that wall, the goal is to be the first to get the city there :crazyeye:

There is no such thing as an 'unnatural' wall of mountains. The same slow, natural, processes of upheaval and erosion that we see around us today are the very ones that resulted in fertile floodplains and resource-rich hills and mountains. Given enough time, whole mountain chains may be levelled, and river valleys filled in.

Though the mountains may be impassable for the moment, I think we should try very hard to find a way south. Maybe double back across the river to the East? It appears that the forest continues south along the river.

I'm confused, and this will probably reveal my gross inexperience with Civ4 (I don't have the game, so it's a little hard to practice...you know...), but can we not traverse mountains yet?

If that is the case, I would expect to find either bountiful resouces or another team on the other side of those unexpectedly in-line mountains.

@Peter - I see you have made your 2000th post. Congratulations on this milestone achievement!

@gbno1fan – Civ4 made Mountains totally impassable. You can't work them or move through them. Only fly over them, or go around.
This is a GREAT change imho. Makes the Mountains much more strategic.

@ Peter – 2,000 posts! Way to go! [party]

Yep its one of the best changes from 3 to 4. You can really use mountains defensively now. I would agree that the lure of what is over the mountain is strong and should be heeded. Most likely it will just be an empty flat plain but it is still worth the look.

Wow, that is a great change. I actually was thinking about how that would make it much more realistic just yesterday!

I really think that we need to send the warrior southeast to go through the valley next to the river. If I were Sirian and put that line of mountains there, I would have also put the iron over there - thus creating conflict among the teams. Or I would have put a team on the other side. Either way, we need to get around the mountain and find out what there is.

2840 BC

Dark Puma is at 1.5/2 strength, with a promotion available (Combat I or City Raider I). Can he rest or use the promotion to get back some health? There be panthers lurking in the jungle.

Looking at the save (Finally I can look at the save! I had to re-install it), it will take 3 turns with out promotion to heal (which I think we should), and 2 turns when promoted. Because of this there seems to be not enough gain to use the promotion at this point.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6756/darkpumaheal7ni.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkpumaheal7ni.jpg)

The Western Warrior (Shadow Tiger):
http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/1512/nextmive9ky.th.jpg (http://img429.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nextmive9ky.jpg)

The tile with the Gems is the end of that spur, so he will go south East and then south.

The Western Warrior:

While Dark Puma heals we need to debate on whether we want to send him. Do we want to explore the Mountain Range (Which Shadow Tiger doesn't look able to get to for quite awhile), or do we want to continue northeast?


http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4120/nextmive8sx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

West:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/958/nextmive4eg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Mountain range:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6751/nextmive1wb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Personally I think we should use the promotion (Combat 1) and then not stop moving. My reason being this:

1. We are Currently on Grassland which offers no defensive Bonus
2. If we move to a forest / jungle we get + 50% right away due to terrain + another 50% due to our promotions in defense. That is + %100. Now if we take Combat 1 (and really he is never going to attack a city ;) ) we get +
%110 Bonus to our current Strenth

As is if a puma shows up next turn and we stay there it will be:
~1.5 vs. 2.00 less than 50% odds

if we use the promotion and move in a Western Direction (making sure to end our turn on a forest or jungle) we get 1.5 * %110 = 3.3 :eek:

I tend to avoid resting my units as exploring is very valuable. With a rating of 3.3 vs. a 2 (Puma) odds are still very much in our favor :goodjob:

Even if you insist using the promotion is not the way to go we should move into the forest/jungle for the extra %100 defensive bonus, before resting to heal :)

Ok, I can see that. I didn't realize we already had the two forest promotions I guess.

So the plan I think (Thanks to Memphus' all seeing eye :goodjob:), should be to use the combat I promotion, go west (forest), and then south east for jungle (or nearest jungle if that isn't jungle), and then set to heal before end of turn (though does that make a difference?).

I agree- use the promotion, then get a move on. Every turn counts! There are people to meet, huts to investigate, resources to locate, and choke points to identify.

I'd like to see us find our way generally south to south/east... see if that mountain chain goes all the way across and if there's another choke point or not. Just my 2 cents!

:goodjob:

if we use the promotion and move in a Western Direction (making sure to end our turn on a forest or jungle) we get 1.5 * %110 = 3.3 Actually, wouldn't the base strength be 1.75, since the health and full strength are rounded with 1.61? (Not that it makes all that much difference, but this teams really seems to be the one for micromanagement :p )

How much difference will the unhealed .5/.25 make in defending against a barbarian warrior? They will come out, and won't be as easy as a simple Panther.

As for direction I'm leaning more toward a south west so we can find any resources/huts, and then bouce back lower down on the way back east. If we start to go east now, then we will have to wait awhile before finding out what is in the eastern side if our warrior explores deep into the Jungle. But hey, both of us are just throwing around ideas here. :)

How much difference will the unhealed .5/.25 make in defending against a barbarian warrior? They will come out, and won't be as easy as a simple Panther.


To my Knowledge as far as the game goes Barb Warrior = Panther = 2 strength. If anythign the pather is more dangerous because it can move 2 ;)

But ocne Barb axemen show up then we have issues (By then we will be running Beauracracy and in good shape though :goodjob:

As far as I can tell when I look in a game warriors are worse than Panthers. The Game says that there is a 78% chance of winning against a Panther, and a 65% chance of winning against a Barbarian Warrior. This is on a Prince Game though so I don't know if there is any difference.


Against a Panther:
http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/4796/panther9nt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Against a Warrior:
http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/284/panther2ea.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah you're right it is be because of the different modifiers vs Barbarians and animals..that was apoor mistake on my part :(