Well as the title says this is my first SG (also my first post:D ), so i guess it would be a bit slow paced and akward for vet players(Considering that the difficulty level is Warlord......which is probably just a joke to all of you, but i have a hard time beating this level:blush: ), thats why im only accepting newbies (like myself:D ), although advice from expert players is greatly appreciated:) .

So lets start with the basics: How about this?

Large
60 percent land coverage
Continents
Climate is Normal
Temperate
4 billion years
Roaming Barbs

9 civs(including us..)......im open to suggestions in choosing the civs
Roster:
Pequenino
goodsmell
choxorn
open
open
open


Allow accelerated production

6 Players (including me)
20 turns each player in AA and MA, and 10 turns in IA and MA
24 hours to confirm
24-72 to play and post


I will post a pic of the starting location and will start playing my turns as soon as the remaining five slots are covered.

PS: This game will be played in the Regular version(Or Vanilla...as i´ve read you call it) of Civ3.......not Conquest or PTW. I live in a small town near Madrid and since Civ isn´t a big game here....i haven´t been able to buy Conquest or PTW in any of the local stores:cry: :cry:

As i said before, advice from expert players is greatly appreciated.....since this SG is basically just scenario to learn from each other (is it just me or does that shound very very cheesy?:rolleyes: :p )

NOTE: Dont download the attachement i posted above......i was just playing around with uploading attachemnts. IT IS NOT PART OF THE SG. its just a saved game. I repeat: ITS NOT PART OF THE SG:D

Well a number of attempts at Warlord SG have not gotten of the ground. You would probably have to go to at least Regent.

There is at least one going now that you may be able to get into in some capacity. If you do try to get this going, I would think you need to go with the full 8 civs. SG's makes the game easier than normal and having only 3 AI's makes it even easier.

Thx for the advice. Ill change the rules then. I´ll keep the difficulty level...justo to try it out. But ill change the 4 civs to 8, as you suggested.


So now its 8 civilizations instead of 4.......still open to suggestions

Ill go watch TV now;) :D .......ill get online tomorrow morning and choose the roster (if there are any players wanting to join:( )

I guess I'll join
but I also think the diffculity level should be at least Regent , and the map got to be changed at least for Large ( I prefer Standart ) . You think it's small , but you'll like it later ;)

we can pick America or just choose random civ . and let's change the Archipelago to Continets or Pengia ( or whatever it is , lol ) , and 60% water ..

as vmxa said , in the SG everything is much easier , you've your team to discuss moves , advices ..everything .

Alright, goodsmell, you´re accepted. I´ll change the difficulty level and settings. How bout this?:


Regent
Large
Continents
60 percent water


I havent decided on the civ we should be using yet....i´ll wait until more people join and vote, although i agree w/ America. Still need 4
players




PS: The time limits for downloading and playing/posting are gonna be a bit akward. Im 6 hours ahead of you guys. Different timezones suck!!! :D
PS2: Dam! its getting late here, and im falling asleep. Ill reconect tomorrow

I'm in. :)

P.S.
You might want to put a roster in post #1 that looks like this:

Roster:
Pequenino
goodsmell
choxorn
open
open
open

P.P.S.
I also recomend that instead of 20 turns per set the whole game, you do 20 in the AA and MiddleA and 10 un the IA and ModernA. Otherwise, the IA and ModernA turns will take too long.

P.P.P.S.
My votes on the civs:

Us: Don't really care, but America is fine.
Ai's: all random

Welcome in choxorn. Thanks for suggestions.

I´ll leave all AI´s random, and will wait for more votes to decide our civ.

A large map should have 12 civs, but if you want it to be easier you could drop it down some. I would not go below 9, that is too much help for the humans.

You will have so much land to fill that is distorts the game. IOW you won't get a true feel for how the game plays.

Considering that the difficulty level is Warlord......which is probably just a joke to all of you, but i have a hard time beating this level
First off:

Welcome to the forum!
:band: [party] :dance: :groucho:

Second:
You've have picked a bold way to improve your skills. And you will. If your first post is to start your very own Training Day SG, you have the wits to figure things out on your own. I must admit, the learning curve is a little bit steeper when you try to learn on your own, but it can be done. This SG will make things much easier.

SG's tend to be flexible on how quickly the turns are played and Training Days even more so. The learning comes from discussion between the players and the teachers. Discussion takes time and for Training Day SG the standard 24/48 is not even an issue, except when the teaching is done and it is time to put into practice what has been taught.

Good luck and have fun.

Yeah , you can surf in the SG forum and see some training games on any difficulity .
and just learn to play better . you need to know basic things , and know where is better to settle , etc..

Civ number changed to 9. Still 3 slots open. :devil:

We can start the SG with 5 players , even with 4 players .

Alright then. I´ll post starts as soon as one more person joins.:goodjob:

I would bring my friend but I won't since his english is worst than mine :D :D
Try to pm someone who looks like a "newbie" too , "newbie" Regent player .

I would bring my friend but I won't since his english is worst than mine :D :D
.


as long as he can type what he did on each turn, i really don't care about his english:D :D :D


(sendin messages to random people in the forum.....inviting to join)

any news , updated roster ? anybody wants to join , oh come on guys it's no Cheiftan it's Regent ;) leave yo message and join us .

Pequenino , why won't you change your signature with a link to this SG , I'll do it now .
and I guess we shall start tommorow no matter what will happen and I hope someone will join us later .
btw , what is your Timezone ? I'm on +2 Gmt [ Israel ]

Is this a training game or a normal game? If this is a training game, you may want to slow it down turnset-wise even more- a lesson I learned the hard way when my training SG (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168455&page=11) dissipated when I wanted to go too fast (and because I might have done something to annoy my team)

I think I'll join. WARNING, I'm terrible and have no clue how to do this. BUT, I will learn...:)

EDIT: NOTE, I still play on Chieftain level half the time.

Timezone: -4:00 Gmt

I'm in, and since I play a bit higher than the level proposed, I can help you guys too. :)

So when does it begin? Cuz I've got a couple days of school left, and then I'll be FREE!!! and I can focus on this some more...

EDIT: delete this post. I didn't write it- I think my brother did.

I guess I'll join since I was asked, but I would recommend we play it on standard with 8 civs. This way there's less peaceful expansion and more war(and other interesting stuff like that)

Hey guys, I am assuming my low post count has allowed you to find me as a "newbie". Although I have not posted much over the past year, I would not say that I am a newbie. That being said, I rarely play above regent and haven't really played for about half a year now. I have been plugging away on mods since I gave up on GOTM and HOF stuff.

I am interested in the succesion games...that is what this is for right? My only question would be, what is the time committment involved, because I am a teacher and will be quite busy in the week 5-6 weeks. Also, at the end of June I will be moving to São Paulo and then travelling for a month. Please keep me posted for the future, but I don't think I will have time until August or September.

hohow cody I'm glad with have a player like you in the team , welcome .
yagtag7 don't worry , just keep practicing on higher levels but leave the Cheiftan level , everything difference on other levels ( especialy after Monarch )
I can recommend for Standart with 8 civ ( include us ) too .

Dear Teacher , I guess we can still hold you in the roster as "Inactive" , but it's all what Penquenino will decide . ( we already have enough players so it won't be a problem )

Penquenino , we've 4 new players when 1 is inactive . so we actually have 3 new active players .
I guess you can update the roster , post a SAVE with your turnset details , and order the roster .

Dear Teacher , I guess we can still hold you in the roster as "Inactive" , but it's all what Penquenino will decide . ( we already have enough players so it won't be a problem )

Penquenino , we've 4 new players when 1 is inactive . so we actually have 3 new active players .
I guess you can update the roster , post a SAVE with your turnset details , and order the roster .

Alright.....so i guess this SG has taken a bit of popularity overnight (i guess random PM´s do work....:D :D :D ). First, lets change the settings a bit, since i see theres been some commnents on the map size and number of civs. How bout this?:

Regent
Standard
Temperate
4 billion years
8 civs (All random, excluding us)
Roaming Barbs
......I still need the input for our civ, so all of you who are listed in the following roster need to vote on our civ in a post, before i post starts......

Roster:
Pequenino
goodsmell
choxorn
yagtag7
cody_the_genius
Little Corporal
WilliamOfOrange(I don´t really know how long this SG might take:( , but im including you in the roster...if you want to be out post so:D )


@goodsmell:To tell you the truth, i don´t know how to post the link in my signature:D :D :D ......................EDIT: I´ve learned :D
@choxorn:It´ll be a normal game, since we can go at a faster rate, and still learn
@yagtag7:I´ll post starts as soon as we agree on world setting, and civs. Don´t worry about ur difficulty level, I barely beat the AI in Warlord.:D :D
@WilliamOfOrange: Sorry for the newbie thing:blush: , i only sent you a PM because i saw that u were playing at a dificulty level of Warlord. Like i said before i dont really know when we´ll start or end

PS: GMT +1:00
PS2:If WilliamOfOrange joins decides to join the roster...then the SG will change from 20 turns each player (In Ancient and Middle), to 15, that way we can speed up the game, and it won´t take so long for other players to get their second shot at it.(The turns for each player in Industrial and Modern will still be 10, regardless)

Hmmm...to Japan it or to Germany it....or Aztec it...hmmm...

Which one?????? Its easier if all of us just pick a single civ. I vote for America in past posts, as did goodsmell and choxorn.

I'm just mulling over my options that's all.

:cool:JAPAN:cool:

Alright, so here are civ votes so far:
Pequenino, America
goodsmell, America
choxorn, America
yagtag7, Japan
cody_the_genius, ?????
Little Corporal, ??????
WilliamOfOrange, ????????


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I guess its pretty much decided what civ will be playing, but ill keep the votes up just in case of a tie.......or in case the remaining players all vote for Japan

Come on people, if u dont post ur votes... I can´t post starts. And u guys usually get online around the time I have school, so we need to fasten this up a bit hahahahahahaha :D:D

I think you just should pick your civ , I mean civ that you want to play as .
no votes no nothing .

If we want it easier , I guess we should pick Industrious and Science civ .
we'll road and mine and chop faster , libraries cheaper , free tech on each new Era etc..
but to start it faster , I'll stay with America . They'll be good enough :D

Yeah, you're probably right. America is nice, but if we want scientific-industrious, which might be helpful...Persians.

I vote for Persians. I think we need a veteran's opinion on this, though. Since this is for newbies, we need to pick a civ that will give us good traits for people who are just starting to play Civ3.

OKAY! Switch: PERSIANS

yeah, i have to agree with you there...I dunno...

We just need to pick something and get started i guess...

Going with americans. Starts:


I don´t know how to paste them in the post, so somebody pleaaaaseeeee teach me:D , meanwhile u´ll just have to download the images. BTW, it wouldn´t let me attach number 2, so there is only three starts.


I´ll log back in tomorrow (its 23:42 PM here), see what start u´ve chosen, and play my 20 turns. Good luck deciding!;)

Start 1 gets my vote, very good production and fresh water.

Start two... FP and river

Start 3-River, Early spice hold, grain

Alright, twist my rubber arm, count me in damnit..this should be fun. I vote for start one, I like the BG...., but I guess it doesn't really matter right?


I am not a fan of America as a civ....but then again, this is Vanilla isn't it...what patch do I need?

@WilliamOfOrange: Welcome to the official roster then!!!!!!:D:D I don´t really know which patch it is, but im pretty sure its 1.29.............cody might know

Alright since WilliamOfOrange is in, i´ll play my fifteen turns. I see that not everybody has posted their pick of starts, but since start 2 has gotten by cody (and he is the most veteran player), i´ll go with it.

I don't really know if start 2 was a good choice..... the capital has jungle in it's radius! Oh well, the floodplain is nice.

@Little Corporal: It gets worst, turns outs there are jungles covering much of the North and East. :cry: :cry:

Turnset:

1) Check out Space Race, oppos are: Aztecs Iroqouois Japan France Germany England. Set down settler, Apazhe tribe gives us Ceremonial B. :D :D Washington is set to warrior, and by working forest it gets done in 2 turns. I see some silks to the NE:D , move worker N, and scout to mts.


2) BW @ 100%, 9 turns. Worker irrigates (wasn´t really sure what else to do with him:( ). Scout keeps on scoutin´

3)Warrior done. Washignto buiding second warrior. Scout sees some coast.

4)Worker starts road.

5)Second warrior done. Washingto set to settler.

6)Done w/ road. Warrior sees a hut.ç

7)More irrgation. Move warrior towards hut. Scout finishes the N side of coast.

8)Bring scout South. Saxons teach us Mysticism

9)Warrior following fresh water

10)WC @ 100%, 8 turns

11)Washington expands borders, Silk within them:D . Bring down research to 80%, 11 turns. Settler done, move towards BG and Coast in NW. Move worker over to Silks

12)Warrior spots some dark green borders in NE

13)I forgot to choose a production for Washingto, so it automatically buil me a third warrior:( :( (Big mistake on my part, hope the next guys can recover lost time), sent to follow settle. Washingto starts barracks, 7 turns. Worker starts Silks road.

14)Move warrior inside dark green borders. Build New York City, set to worker, no need for warrior, since i have an extra one, 3 turns.

15)Monty offers us WC for Mysti. Don´t accept, since we are already researching it. Surprised to find out they still only have one city. First Palace expand:D :D , im sure many more are to come


Pos turn: I really mess up with the third warrior thing, and i dont think i chose a good spot for NY. Oh well, its all in the name of learning:D . Any comments from teammates, and lurking vet. players is extremely welcomed!!!


Now for some pix, and the save

So here´s the official roster:

Pequenino - Just played
goodsmell - UP!!
choxorn - On Deck
yagtag7 - Nervous as Hell:D :D
cody_the_genius - Ready to show this noobs what´s all about ;) :D
Little Corporal - Wishin´ Pequenino would´ve picked a better start:lol: :crazyeye:
WilliamOfOrange: Lookin´for patch 1.29:p

Pequino: You can learn how to paste screenshots to text here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=55122)

my suggesstions about the starts :
1st : We've a goodyhut which means we can get some tech , map expansion , nothing or gold. we've Gold on the hills , which means we'll have money for researching, but to go for naval city we've to move 1tile north and forget about the river and about the goodyhut.
don't forget we've 4BG's on our area . I don't like this start since we're far from river and from the Coast . ( we still can move south to the river ) .

2nd : I like this start , we've river in the spot and we also have Game in our 9tiles. we've a Goodyhut which can be a good advantage ( I said why in the 1st start ) .
Mountains and 2 BG's , we don't have forest to chop :( but we have jungle :(

3rd : We've 2 tiles of river , we can settle and have a river and right near us we've an Wheat on plains =| . just one BG, but we've forest to chop and SPICES !
Okay we will have some extra gold but not so much .

well , 1st start is nice but we'll have to risk to go south . I don't like 3rd start even it has happiness luxury since we're not playing on Emperor and we can deal with happiness withouth that luxury . 2nd start and 1st , I vote for them both .

Oh btw , I got it okay . But I'll play tonight or tommorow @ noon

I guess it was too late to post suggesstions about the starts ;)
btw , we're the good guys ? we can declare war ? or we'll wait the AI declare on us ?:D
and guys please let's try to hold our REPUTATION as good as needed for good deals .

I'm done for today , we'll see you later ;)

I agree w/ on the reputation thing. Our rep. is sacred, so don´t abuse RoP´s or break alliances often.

You can declare war whenever you want, just make sure you know what u r doing :D :lol:


What about research strategies????? What are we aiming at in the Anciet Age????.....I should have asked this question b4 playingmy turnset, but i just remenbered right now:lol:

I´ve really been thinkin about the whole war thing..........and i think that we should go to war with Monty, and it be best if we do it NOW. The Aztecs only have one city, so i don´t think their military is pretty strong, and Washington will be done with barracks soon, as will WC (so we can escort our warriors w/ a couple of archers:D). By the time we get a decent military force to attack them w/, they´ll probably only have 3-4 cities (at the rate they r building currently), so with a bit of good gaming and luck will defeat them easily. They only have one tech that WE don´t, and it turns out to be the one WE are researching, so I don´t think that we could benefit from their science research in the future if we don´t attack them. The only thing we could possibly gain by trading with them is gold, but even that won´t be too much of a necessity for us, since both of cities are near mountains with gold in them, so we can settle another city and mine them.


In short: My opinion is that, goodsmell, if u feel u r up to the task, destroy Monty!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:lol::lol:

Thanx for the link to the posting pix thing...............i´ve tried and i get it alright, but when i post the pic in a link, it doesn´t find the URL. So ill just keep on attaching them the old way:lol:

www.imageshack.us is an execllent site for uploading screenies .
I think we can attack them so early , it'll be good only for our side . about the science don't worry , if we'll let them grow without declaring war on them , they'll Largest than we do and they'll reach much Technologies . but anyway it's a good idea to declare war on them ASAP .

I guess we'll create some dotmap , and I could'nt see where you placed NY because it does'nt included in your uploaded screenies.
and I still don't understand , if we started with the 2nd Start , why did you upload the screenie with the 1st start again ?

I didn´t realize that i hand´t taken a pic of "the world as we know it", i was only taking pix of important events, and forgot to add it. So hopefully u´ll add a pic of the location of NY in ur turnset, for those lurking out there :;):

I agree with the dotmap suggestion, would be really helpful.

I uploaded the "first start" pic as i was "trying" to learn how to post pix, so it was really nothing important

EDIT: So r u going to declare war on ur turnset, or shall we wait until next player?????? (choxorn if im not mistaken:D)

I must add , you should'nt irrigate tiles where it already 2food , in Despotism it won't create 3 food since it drops everything has 3 to 2 . I hope understand my english in this explanation ;)

and road before you're Mining / Irrigating ...it produce 1 extra gold .
I guess I will reMine these tiles .

@ Pequenino - Yes, the newest vanilla patch is 1.29

By the way I think we'll wait untill next player will take the SAVE after me .
and I need to play 15 turns or 20 ? I forgot this .

Is it allowed to call cities as we want ? and our forces etc ..

I must add , you should'nt irrigate tiles where it already 2food , in Despotism it won't create 3 food since it drops everything has 3 to 2 . I hope understand my english in this explanation ;)

and road before you're Mining / Irrigating ...it produce 1 extra gold .
I guess I will reMine these tiles .



Thx, i´ll try to remenber for next time. Sorry for the inconvinience:blush: :D :D

EDIT: 15 turns, since William joined us. Yeha u can call cities and victorious units whatever u want:D:D

Hey it just a game relax , and regular SG game does'nt say you can't learn from him .
Even I'm always trying to beat Emperor , I believe I can still do some mistakes and I hope someone will see them ( cody can ;) ) and will give a "fix" .

Okay , I'll play my turnset today . after 15-30 mins I guess . I want to download Snoopy's GraphicMod for civ3 vanilla . and then to play it .

Alright, so 2 turnsets done in 1 day....and we can probably count on choxorn to download ur save today as well. Fast game pace!!!!!1




PS:Still wanna know what are we aiming for in techs in Acient Age hahahaha :lol:

I'm after that, I see...I should get this done today, as it's still only 4:30 in the afternoon here.

hahahaha:lol::lol:...im already falling asleep...it´s already 23:05 here

*dances* School's out, so now I have lots of time for this and SCHOOL'S OUT so now I can do other STUUUUUF!!!! *flips over* YAY ok random and off topic. *sigh*

We still have school...........until June 21:(

Okay I've played my 15 turnset and detailed it as I could ;) :

Turn 1 - Realize our Warrior near Aztec's Capital so I decide send him out from their borders. Scout keep exploring SE side . NY was producing a Worker in "1 turn" but I changed it to Warrior since our next growth will be in 5 turns so its impossible to finish the worker in 1 turn. I sent the Warrior of NY toward Aztec's borders.

Turn 2 - Aztec asks to send home our troops and it's done as she wanted.
NY: Warrior --> rax the warrior sent to the borders too .
The barracks building in Washington changed to Granary since we already have a low grow and barrack won't do better.
Science drop 10% and it's still 1 turn for WC in +1gpt . I can see river with FloodPlain and gold on hills . I think it's a good spot to settle .
the Scout discover new borders ( I think it's the Iroquies ) .

Turn 3 - worker finishes the road to silks :D ( more happiness ) .
WC researched --> The Wheel in 7turns on 90% science +0gpt
I prefer The Wheel because we are too far from aztecs to send Swordmen , I prefer Horses
I can realize that the southern Coast seperates between us and the "Undiscovered" civ

Turn 4 - Worker mines the Irrigated tile . Granary in 2 turns :D
the Scout finally can see that the mystirial borders belong to Iroquois.
I've a deal with them :
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/5104/america128qu.jpg
I prefer to pay 8 gold instead of giving the 2 techs for Alphabet and 25gold
Who knows maybe they'll have more gold soon and techs that we'll can trade for.
I think we need more workers ASAP so I prefer to leave the rax working in NY later , and build a worker in 3 turns .

Turn 5 - nothing special , Washington Granary in 1turns and grow to 3 in 1turn.

Turn 6 - Worker finishes to mine. Granary completed and Washington is now on size 3 and we already have 6shields. I move him to the BG .
and Washington builds an Archer in 2 turns.

Turn 7 -
NY: Worker --> rax . since NY has no BG's I move worker to work tile @ river .
The warrior that sent home from Aztecs discovers a Goodyhut ( Curious ).
worker roads the BG .
I deal with Aztecs , I give them Mysticism for The Wheel + 10gold ( it does'nt cost much for us since Mysticism is'nt expensive tech ) . And we're researching horseback riding since I see horses near NY ( horseback riding in 9 turns )

Turn 8 - Washington: Archer --> Settler in 3 turns , and city grow in 3turns .
the Goodyhut gave us execllent view ( expansion ) . Archer sent to Aztec's borders.

Turn 9 - Worker finishes the BG road and mine it . our scout meets Iroqious scout , that means the Coast does'nt seperate us from them . I've free Warrior near Aztecs I send him to explore more northen.

Turn 10 - The northen Warrior discovers a Goodyhut . NY's worker finishes road a mining it. nothing intresting .

Turn 11 - Washington: Settler --> rax . Sent settler SE to settle on gold because it's far enough from our capitol, and it'll capture BG tile after expanding .
we've IW from northen Goodyhut by northen warrior :goodjob: .
another warrior discovers more horses and goodyhut :D
and we've Iron in our borders and southern more iron :D

Turn 12 - worker finished to mine the BG and goes to road and chop the forest with the Game. northen warrior see Incense on desert but it's too far from us .
Congratulations! I see the Aztec Jaguar and Settler with him , it'll be their 2nd city .

Turn 13 - NY's worker finishes his job and going to road the horses .
I've a wildguess ^_^ they'll settle near the Wheat , and if we capture it , it'll be a gift ( the defender is a poor Jaguar Warrior ). Oh! another warrior moves approach their borders and see another Jaguar warrior with settler :eek: .
I think it's Settlers day , our scout explored to Iroqious borders and see undefended Settler. Our Warrior steps to the Goodyhut and gets Mathematics !!!

Turn 14 - you won't believe it, northen warrior see another Goodyhut.
Aztec's 2nd city settled along the Coast near Incense .
Science drop to 40% and it's still 1turn with +4gpt
both workers start roading .

Turn 15 - Horseback riding , we're now researching Writing on 70% with +1gpt in 12turns
Washington: rax --> Settler in 3 turns , and city grows in 2 turns.
Our settler is on his positions and he settles our 3rd city "American Gold Factory" .
City already produces 5commerce . and builds a worker in 5 turns ( city grows in 5 too)
northen warrior steps to the Goodyhut and we've Polytheism :goodjob:

Well is now turn 16, but choxorn is next to play it .
summarize screenie :
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3660/america149ds.jpg

Notes * I think we should settle some city along the Coast ( we want Curragh to meet more civs ) . I think we can settle our next city northen or SW , northen is'nt the best because there's too much jungle.
Try to check the Iroqious every turn , they might have something for us .
Another thing , start to preparing to war with the Aztecs , we want their Territory, and they're not that usefull and strong .
***** keep our "northen warrior" to explore more , he would find more goodyhuts with technologies :lol:

Yeah We've school untill 21june too . and the time here is 23:54 now I'm in +2gmt .
from where are you ?

teammates read my turnset and post some suggesstions if it's needed.

Nice turnset!:)


So we r pretty much on a medium-sized continent, with 2 other civs, and both of them don´t look like they have a strong military. Most probable thing is that they´ll be done w/ before Medieval.:D :D I agree with goodsmell on the settling, i don´t like the North much (too many jungle squares, and we have already secured one of the silks within our borders), but i see some Incense that´d i would like to get my hands (so we need to deal with the Aztecs before THEY get to it). Settling South is a better option if we want to play a passive game (for now......;) :p ), and i see a couple of gold mountains, and some iron (really need to get our hands on THAT!!!:D ). I wouldn´t worry about the Iroquois too much though, as soon as we destroy the Aztecs, we can just settle a few cities along the mountain range that divides their land an ours, and isolate them from our half of the continent until we go to war with them.


EDIT: Any chance we can finish Writing before starting the war??? that way we could build an embassy with Iroquois, and try to sing a military alliance with them, against Aztecs
Roster:
Pequenino-Learning the basics..lol
goodsmell-Just played
choxorn-UP
yagtag7-On Deck
cody_the_genius-gettin´anxious:D
Little Corporal-..somewhere:cool:
WilliamOfOrange-Still lookin´for version 1.29f:D :D

Yeah We've school untill 21june too . and the time here is 23:54 now I'm in +2gmt .
from where are you ?
.


Im in GMT + 1...............and i´ve must have read the time wrong b4, ´cuz its 23:10 NOW hahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:


From Madrid, Spain u??????

Dang, our school is out on June 1st.

First of all, the first cities are way too spread apart. CxxC or CxxxC is a good rule of thumb for city placement, C = city, x = tile. American Gold Factory should be one tile to the west.

Also, each city should have a unit or two defending it, in case of attack. The AI usually doesn't give a crap about reputation, and isn't afraid to just march into your territory and take the city.

Good job exploring. Early exploration is important so we can meet as many civs as possible, and see what kind of terrain we're dealing with here.

Maybe we can get gma or Whomp or vmxa or someone to further critique the turnsets, to give you guys as much experience as we can. :)

Got it. My school is also out on June 21st. (come on, just 19 more school-days left... :sad:) I'll try to play and post, but don't expect my log before tommorow morning. I live in -8 GMT timezone, and it's currently about 6:40 here.

PS:
about Pequino's screenie question, did you remember to put "http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/" before the name of your screenie?

Yeah maybe you right , I was confused for a minute where to settle, finally did it on the Gold , one side we won't have anything besides Gold if mining . but I still could settle it on CxxC. yeah and if you'll bring Whompy or anyone gma vmxa , it would be nice . I think for Regent level they've no problems :) :D

Now when I think about the exploration , with the Goodyhuts . I could to not research Writing to get it for free from the Goodyhut , because Goodyhut does'nt give a tech you are researching :\

Dang, our school is out on June 1st.

First of all, the first cities are way too spread apart. CxxC or CxxxC is a good rule of thumb for city placement, C = city, x = tile. American Gold Factory should be one tile to the west.

Also, each city should have a unit or two defending it, in case of attack. The AI usually doesn't give a crap about reputation, and isn't afraid to just march into your territory and take the city.

Good job exploring. Early exploration is important so we can meet as many civs as possible, and see what kind of terrain we're dealing with here.

Maybe we can get gma or Whomp or vmxa or someone to further critique the turnsets, to give you guys as much experience as we can. :)
From my understanding of CxxxC, I think gold factory is in it, since its four tiles from New York(counting the city tile itself.)
The terrain seems pretty nasty to me, lots of jungle and desert!
Another thing, do we really want to take out the Aztecs yet? If we go over to conquer them and neglect our expansion, the Iroqouis could outexpand us, or at least get a bit of an edge. I say we should focus on our own expansion, let the Aztecs build us some cities, and then we take them for ourselves.

Yeah maybe you right , I was confused for a minute where to settle, finally did it on the Gold , one side we won't have anything besides Gold if mining . but I still could settle it on CxxC. yeah and if you'll bring Whompy or anyone gma vmxa , it would be nice . I think for Regent level they've no problems :) :D
I've downloaded your save, though I haven't yet looked at it. I haven't played vanilla for almost 1 1/2 years. Some things are similar, but some are very different. Whomp is out of town until Sunday. I think vmxa has kept up with vanilla from looking at other people's saves.

One thing I've noticed without looking at the save is there's been no discussion of RCP (Ring City Placement). You can greatly reduce corruption in your cities by placing them in rings around your capitol at exactly the same distance. For example, your first ring may have all settlements at 4 tiles away, and the next ring all the towns at 7 away from the capitol.

The Forbidden Palace (FP) acts like a second capitol and corruption is reduced by placing towns in similar rings, so you end up with two productive cores. Generally the FP is built quite a ways away from your capitol so that the 2 sets of rings have little (if any) overlap.

They did away with RCP in Conquests, but it's very powerful in vanilla and PTW. It's a fairly complicated thing to learn, but I believe there's an article about it in the War Academy. I remember just enough about it to give just a bit of guidance if you're interested, but it has to be planned out in advance with dot maps. I'll look at the save to see if it's still possible to do.

I took a look at the save. Are you playing with accelerated production (AP) turned on? The city view shows that it only takes 15 shields to build a settler and 5 shields for a worker...normally it's double that.

RCP isn't possible, because New York is at distance 4 and American Gold is at distance 5, so you'll want to go for Optimal City Placement (OCP).

You have 3 cities and are building your 3rd worker, so I think it's a good thing that you aren't neglecting them.

I can't really make many comments, because I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at with the shield production halved. If it is AP, you should be aware that it was designed for multi-player games...human against human...and I've never tried that. It's said to be unbalancing in games against the AI.

I wish I could give better help. Maybe vmxa can do more. Good luck, guys!!! :)

I saw something wierd with production everything too fast :D
We also have a lot jungle northen our capitol , that's bad .
We don't have much awesome settle spots especialy north . we can settle on pretty nice spots but it's too far from the capitol and the corruption will be much higher .

So pequenino did you ran an AP ? if you did we still can start a new one , but if you wish to procceed this one , I've no problems but I never tried it too .

Acceleraton Production is dumb, we should start a new game with that off.

@choxorn: No, I didn´t :lol: :lol: :lol:......but if lurkers don´t mind, i still find it easier to just attach the pix :D
@goodsmell/gmaharriet: Yeah, AP is on.........I always turn it on when playing against AI, so I don´t find it unbalancing. But if u guys wanna start a new game without it, i have no qualms :D :D (Just tell me ASAP, so that i can post some new starts, and get my turnset as fast as possible, so we don´t slow the SG too much:D)

EDIT: Since goodsmell isn´t too experienced with AP, gma thinks we u should change it too, and Little Corporal basically things its stupid:D..........i´ll post some starts now, and probably play my turnset tonight(it´s 15:15 here). I´ll log back online at 9 pm, and see what start u guys choose, and then play my turnset.

BTW, cody (or gma).....since u r more experienced, would u mind creating a dotmap, after i post my save, so next player knows where to locate cities?????????

Yeah , that will be helpful for me and next players .
I realized only now you choose AP :D I really prefer to play a regular game .
That's good Gma told us something wrong , cuz I would'nt know about it :)

Ok, so here are starts. Ill log in at night, see what start u´ve chosen and do my turnset.

My vote goes to start 1:Fresh water, Wheat, Forests to chop, Two BG´s, and a river that we can follow......

Start 4 isnt that bad either: 3 BG´s (the settler is on top of the thir one), River, Forest to the SE, Coast to the E and N.


Ur call!;) :p






Starts:

I will avoid start 2 , it worst ..
I don't really like start 1 .. but I cannot avoid start 3 ! that's great ! we can make some Settler Factory . we also can move our settler NE to have our Capitol along the Coast .

I agree, 2 is the worst, but I can't pick between 1, 3, and 4. 1 does look the best, however.

I'm posting the pic below to give you an idea of how RCP can be done. I used the utility, CivAssistII, and the most recent played save.

With CivAssistII you can set your capitol center (and later your FP center) and have it show you ALL possible locations for 1st and 2nd ring cities. Then you can use the utility to place proposed city sites as a sort of dot map for team discussion.

In the attached pic it shows all the sites for distance 4 (all numbered "1") and the some possibilities for distance 7 (all numbered "2"). I also placed a couple of proposed cities so you can see what it would look like if you were using CivAssistII to make your decisions.

My map isn't complete, of course, but just to give you an idea of what can be done. Even if you decided not to use RCP, you can still use the feature that shows proposed future city sites. :)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/Pequenino_Dot_Map.JPG

Thx gma.......ill download CivAssitII, and see if i can work it :D.

EDIT: Downloaded and learned!!! :D Will play start 1, in a couple of hours (It´s 6 PM here)

:(( I don't really like the 1st start and I saw you fliped the order 2nd and 3rd Start was.

I don't like the Start where there's a lot of Tundra , but I like the start with the cow along the river .
Gma I would ask you to take a look a say if it's possible to create 4turn settler factory there ?

but 1st is also looks good because we'll have Wheat and 1 or 2 BG"s on our Capitol .
and then we'll be able to settle on the river .

Alright, so here´s my turnset(Same world settings, just changed the AP)(I chose start1, since it got the most votes)

1)Check out Space Race, oppos are: Aztec, Russia, Germany, England, France, Egypt. Build Washington, near coast and BG´S (on top of wheat). See a welcoming goodyhut:D. Send Scout directly South, to follow river course. Washingto set to Warrior.

2)WC @ 90%, 24 turns (:mad: ).Worker starts road to BG. Warrior at 3 turns.

3)Scout follows river to Coast.

4)Scout moves SE.

5)Warrior done. Washingto set to second Warrior. Worker starting a mine in BG. Scout does some more....err......scoutin??? :lol:

6)Warrior pops a goodyhut...all we get is maps of region (why can´t i be as lucky as goodsmell?:cry: ), we see 3 Ivory. Scout finds a couple of Wheat.

7)Some scoutin´........

8)More scoutin´....

9)Keep on scoutin´....

10)Second Warrior done, set to fortify, i always like to leave a unit fortified in each city. Scout sees Silks to the SE.

11)Washington expands borders. Scoutin´.....

12)Scout sees more Silks

13)Scoutin´.....again. Worker finishes second mine, going to chop forest(I thought I should do that:confused: ????)

14)Just some scoutin´.....(How come i STILL haven´t seen any civs?????:cry: )

15)Warrior scouts NW, and Scout finishes exploring the small peninsula SE, so i bring him back N. Settler in 1 Turn. WC in 4.

Post-Turn: This turnset sucked!!:mad: and im not sure if it was my fault:( , or if our civ is just going slow. It looks like we are stuck alone, in a continent, with a center (near where Washington is) and 4 "arms" coming out of it. It turns out that the only 2 "arms" that seem like they might expand to connect with more land, are the ones in the NE and the SW (precisely the two directions in which i didn´t explore:mad: ). So i think we can probably bet on being alone for a while, at leats until the AI civs start building Galleys (that probably means slow tech researching for us:( ). Talking about tech researching, i think that WC was going a bit slow, and i had research at 90 % at all times, does AP affect research as well???, ´cuz i think it was going much faster in previous game:confused: . Oh well, i did what i could, goodsmell. i hope u can give this game a little more interest.


The pix and a dotmap:

The save, and a second dotmap (This dotmap is with a distance of 4 tiles, while the first one was 3, i think that according to gma´s rule of thumb, both should work just fine, so i guess u can choose whiever u want goodsmell:confused: ).


Roster:
Pequenino-Just played......again:D :D
goodsmell-UP
choxorn-ON DECK
yagtag7
cody_the_genius
Little Corporal
WilliamOfOrange-Still looking for version 1.29f??????? haven´t heard form him in a while...:confused:

The 1.29f patch is here (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/patches/)

Sorry I've been gone so long yall...

The 1.29f patch is here (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/patches/)


Lets hope he logs on and looks for it here then;)

Sorry I've been gone so long yall...

No problem...........until its ur turnset. Are you up to date on the new game we had to start????:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, pretty much. I've never used AP so I think it would have been a little odd-feeling for me...

One more thing: it would be really nice if we could post some screenshots in the thread...easier to see.

I probably don't need to regurgitate stuff other people have said but I'll try to explain one method here:
To take a screenshot, press Alt+Print Screen
Ctrl+V to paste it into a program where you can save it as a jpeg (MS Paint)
Save the screenshot on your hard drive
Upload the file to an image hosting website (http://www.imageshack.us http://www.villagephotos.com)
The site should provide a URL for the image. Put this URL within brackets:

As a matter of fact I think I'll go ahead and do that with the start we chose so I don't have to keep clicking on those little links to see it (it was the one with the grain on the coast, right?)

Remember, try to save the screenshot as a jpeg; it takes up less space.

A demonstration of the need for jpegs...:) The bitmap starting picture was too big for me to upload with a free account...

EDIT: Does anybody want me to post a screenie of where we are now? (after Pequenino's first 15 turns) I can't post the start...:(

Yeah it was the one with the coast. The first one starting from the left.

EDIT: Does anybody want me to post a screenie of where we are now? (after Pequenino's first 15 turns) I can't post the start...:(


goodsmell can do it as soon as he gets the save, and he can post it with his turnset. U alright with this goodsmell??????

what I have to say about last 5 posts: ????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Sorry, I am pretty sure that I have the patch..but I will check it out. I will be away from Thursday night until Sunday. Will this be a problem? I am starting to wonder if I can do this....but I suppose 15 turns every 5 days isn't too bad

If I may offer a pointer or two...

With a bit of scouting done and a little RCP work underway... now might be a good time for the team to stop play for a little while and do a little "dotmapping".

As a matter of personal preference, I like to take a screenshot of the map with the grid lines on (Ctrl-G) and put that in an image editor of some sort. I then put "Dots" on proposed city sites, and draw bright lines around the 9 tiles that would be enclosed by the new settlement's borders. I find that it is easier to spot opportunities and maximize the use of terrain by visualizing what I want it to look like.

I'll make a deal with you guys if you want. You do the dotmapping exercise, and I'll work on it with you.

Without having looked at the save yet, I did notice something from a screenie. Washington is building a settler, due in 1, BUT it won't grow for another 7 turns and reduces the population by 2, so your settler won't complete for another 7 turns even though it says just 1. You might want to switch it to a granary, and the forest chop (which I don't think has yet completed) will contribute 10 shields to the granary build. The granary, in turn, will help you greatly in faster growth and production of settlers.

BTW, you're very fortunate to have Scoutsout taking an interest in this game. He's one of the best players on the board and has taught me a great deal, so ya really want to listen to him. :)

@gmaharriet: Stupid mistake on my part:mad: :mad: .........No wonder it was going slow:p

@Scoutsout: Thx for the suggestion..........BTW r the maps i made with CivAssit II alright??

@gmaharriet: Stupid mistake on my part:mad: :mad: .........No wonder it was going slow:p

@Scoutsout: Thx for the suggestion..........BTW r the maps i made with CivAssit II alright??

With respect, the biggest mistake you made was building on the Wheat. Even in despotism it would give 4 food once irrigated.

Pequino built on the wheat?? :eek: :eek:

BTW r the maps i made with CivAssit II alright??
CAII is great for locating all the sites possible on a ring, and you did a good job with it.

I think I know what Scout has in mind (I've seen his dot maps) and, once having figured out what sites are possible, his maps are easier to visualize what your empire will look like after choosing specific sites, and probably easier for another player to use when actually sending out a new settler.

It was always a chore to just do all the counting manually to determine which tiles were in which ring, thus the real help CAII gives with that. It's also why they changed the corruption model in Conquests to eliminate the need for RCP.

built on the wheat, huh? Move on and don't worry about it. :goodjob:

Yeah I already know Scoutsout is the expert here , and I will listen to his advices for sure :D
and Pequenino gmaharriet just told you about a mistake you've done with the settler , you can't build a settler if your city has no Citizens to sacrifice for him , when building a settler, the city prudces him drops in 2 . in our situation we don't have more than 2 citizens in our city which means our settler will be ready when the city will grow to 3 ( I guess I've to change the settler -> Granary . and the forest choping will make it faster )

Since I don't know how creating a dotmap I can only talk about it .
I saw in one of your screenies that we've a river but on plains. I think our 2nd city should be settled on the southern Ivory. 3rd city has 2 options for me , it can be settled on the Game that out of our borders , or 1tile WEST the Game that out of our borders .
4th city on the hills along the Coast and if we scout next maybe we can get something interesting .
I think 5th city should be settled on the Wheat NE along the Coast ( we'll still have another Wheat to work , it's good ) .
6th city should be settler SW to the cow in the east , we will have a cattle , river and 2 BG's in our non-expanded borders .

@Scoutsout what do you think ? ( maybe you should translate my bad english to have comments :D )

@ Bucephalus - hmm I hope it won't sound newbiee , but can we irrigate that Wheat ? the nearest river does'nt even located in our Capitol borders :|

and Pequenino gmaharriet just told you about a mistake you've done with the settler



Already acknowledged that.




Hadn´t even noticed the whole Wheat thing:crazyeye: .................guess it shows just how newbie i am, huh?:D :D :D

So i take my screenies with the CivAssit II dotmaps were helpful????....I agree with you on the city settling, all though there might be some changes as new terrain is explored and new resources come up.

BTW, I am really interested in learning how to make better dotmaps, so I´ll take your offer Scoutsout, if you are still offering to teach me

PS: goodsmell, you haven´t posted a "got it" yet, and its past the 24 hour limit. I´ll give you another 24, since were discussing some game strategies with experts. If you want us to skip you this turn just post so, and choxorn wil take it up

@goodsmell: You can irrigate from any freshwater source, although often there isn't one nearby so you have to irrigate a number of tiles in a 'chain'.

Hey guys, I will be away until Sunday evening. HOpefully I won't holdyou up....how long does each person have for their turns?

48 hours i think...or is it 24 as well???

@Pequenino: The maps you made with CA2 looked good for thier intended purpose... which is mainly to show where the ring is at a given distance.

I'll post an example of one of my dotmaps later tonight. I'll probably use a different ring setting so you guys aren't tempted to just use my settlement pattern. ;)

Here's a dotmap for you. I prepared this using sites at distance 4... and when you look at this dotmap, you'll probably conclude that distance 3 is a little better for your first ring on this particular map.

When you start plotting the positions and looking at the tiles, it can help you spot positions that might be crowded, or opportuntities you didn't see at first. It also gives a clear reference for in-team discussion.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Pequenino_Dotmap.jpg

What I like to do is plot the sites I intend to settle, and then draw lines around the nine tiles that a city on that site would be able to work immediately. Others may prefer to sketch in the full 21 tiles you'd get with the first cultural expansion. Neither technique is really "better"; I just prefer to look at the first 9 tiles. Looking at the territory claimed will give you a better idea of what the empire would look like if you settle it that way.

Anyway, if we were having a hypothetical discussion on the dotmap I just posted, we could make the following points about this plan:
"Yellow Dot" claims Ivory
"Green Dot" and "Blue Dot" have a lot of riverside plains to work for commerce.
"White Dot" is on a game tile, but is the only site in that area at distance 4 because of the mountains, and it crowds "Blue Dot".
If we were to try looking at an inner ring at distance 3, we might be able to get a nice riverside/coastal site in our second ring at distance 6 or so, south of "Blue Dot".

I'm not sure if I understand what you meant . but Distance 3 is like CxC ?
and I like your dotmap , it's like neat
Yellow Dot will help us by capturing the Ivories , we will have Coastal city plus luxuries .
green dot has river and forest to chop to have early development .
Blue dot also has a lot of river . White dot is great by capturing the Game , and it's also has BG .

If our next ring will be on CxC . I afraid the cities won't have enough tiles for Citizen workers .
btw , is'nt it a good idea to settle first city on the Wheat with the river and coast ( 2 Wheat ) it may produce a Settler factory ? if so , we can manage the Settler Factory and build the Ring you show'ed .

and Pequenino I guess I will skip . I'm sorry I did'nt say it before .

Hey guys, I will be away until Sunday evening. HOpefully I won't holdyou up....how long does each person have for their turns?


24 to post a got it...............and 48 to actually play. So don´t worry, we still have a few turns to go until yours, i think it´ll hold us up.

I'm not sure if I understand what you meant . but Distance 3 is like CxC ?

and Pequenino I guess I will skip . I'm sorry I did'nt say it before .



CxC??? was that on the rule of thumb gma gave us?..............i though it was either CxxC or CxxxC:confused:


Alright, don´t worry about it. Choxorn, can u take it up? (@choxorn: you have 24 hours to post a "got it", since the time i posted this)

I'm not sure if I understand what you meant . but Distance 3 is like CxC ?
and I like your dotmap , it's like neat
Yellow Dot will help us by capturing the Ivories , we will have Coastal city plus luxuries .
green dot has river and forest to chop to have early development .
Blue dot also has a lot of river . White dot is great by capturing the Game , and it's also has BG .

If our next ring will be on CxC . I afraid the cities won't have enough tiles for Citizen workers .
btw , is'nt it a good idea to settle first city on the Wheat with the river and coast ( 2 Wheat ) it may produce a Settler factory ? if so , we can manage the Settler Factory and build the Ring you show'ed .
and Pequenino I guess I will skip . I'm sorry I did'nt say it before .
No, distance 3 is CxxC, 2 tiles and then the city.

Strange, scoutsout's cities are at CxxC and CxxxC. I think the Yellow dot should be 1 tile NW and the Blue Dot 1 tile SW to make all cities CxxxC. I'll do that on this turn. Got it.

hmm the problem is that he did one city CxxxC to settle on the Game and not on the BG to be able to work it , and if you change the Yellow dot 1NE , it won't capture the Ivory in it . and consider the idea of the blue dot choxorn , that will make a distance between green dot and blue dot of CxC ( I don't think we want it )

but we've to think what to do with the White dot . it does'nt dotted on a CxxC system , and it's CxC from the blue dot , I think it's too much overlaping . I can't think about any options :(

You seem to have misunderstood me, goodsmell. These are the city locations I meant:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Pequino_dotmap.JPG
Now do you understand? All the cities are at CxxxC with the capital, the Yellow dot still gets the ivory, and there is no ICSing.

Now I see what you mean mate , it looks nice ! but I would like to see our Ivory city has it ivory and Coast too . btw what is it ICSing ? I'm very sorry I don't know some meanings from "Civ dictionary"

I also want Scoutsout and Gmaharriet to say their opinion on your dotmap , okay ? I hope you've time to not to play now , try to play after their comment please .

Now I see what you mean mate , it looks nice ! but I would like to see our Ivory city has it ivory and Coast too . btw what is it ICSing ? I'm very sorry I don't know some meanings from "Civ dictionary"

I also want Scoutsout and Gmaharriet to say their opinion on your dotmap , okay ? I hope you've time to not to play now , try to play after their comment please .
I'm at work and cannot see the pix (our IT department blocks them), but I'm going to hazard a guess at what you may be seeing on Scout's map. IIRC, he said he was using distance 4 Ring placement.

When you go in the cardinal directions, east, west, north or south, each tile counts as 1.5. When you go at an angle NE, NW, SE or SW, each tile counts as only 1. So, if you're going directly (let's say) south 2 tiles, it's actually 1.5 + 1.5 = 3...and it gets more complicated if you use a combination of S and SW. Whatever total you get is then rounded down to the closest even number. That's why CAII can save you so much work. Either Scout or I can take a look tonight. Where it appears to be CxxC, I'll bet it's 2 tiles at 1 1/2.

@goodsmell - ICS = Infinite City Sprawl and generally refers to very tightly packed cities. It's often used for specialist farms in corrupt areas. It's also used for AW games where you want a foot soldier to be able to support the next city in a single move on a road. Even when not playing AW, some people like to use it for ease of defense...the higher the level you play, the more likely it will be for the AI to attack earlier because they start with free units.

ICS in corrupt areas with lots of grass for food is usually CxC, but CxxC closer to the core.

In that case, the Yellow dot is on RCP 4, but the Blue dot is on RCP 5. I will keep the Y dot where it is, but the blue dot was better in scoutsout's map.

This great a Newbie SG Game. Been Watching the forum a while now learning lots of stuff from other games. Nice to see a Game explain this whole ring placement that I been trying to figure out. Keep up the great work.

Edit: Thanks

You didn't do the Lurkers Comment thingy right. You can make it appear by wrapping [delurk][ /delurk] around your text, omitting the space.

@Choxorn: You are correct, yellow-dot was misplaced for proper RCP. I saw that after I'd uploaded it, but didn't bother to change it as I was simply trying to show a technique for visually planning city placement.

I rarely bother with RCP, as I prefer to place cities based on terrain considerations. I'm playing the current classic GOTM, and I did not use RCP in that game. I think it has value as a teaching point in this game, and knowing how to use RCP is useful in Vanilla... but I would never advocate RCP as "the way it is done".

Sorry for the double-post, but after reading some earlier comments, I wanted to offer a little more discussion on the dotmaps:

There seems to be a little bit of confusion on city "spacing" versus "Ring City Placement"; and it appears that my dotmap added to that confusion.

Ring city placement treats the orthogonal tiles (N, S, E, W) differently than the ones going NE, SE, SW, NW; gmaharriet notes this difference. RCP offers some advantages in managing corruption, nothing more.

Notes such as CxxC or CxxxC refer to spacing, and treat all tiles equally. There are a number of factors to consider when considering how loose you want your city placement.
As noted by others, a tight city placement offers tactical advantages. One-move units can make it to another town in one turn with a CxxC pattern.
Tighter city placement patterns allow you to put more citizens on tiles earlier in the game. This point can spawn an entire sub-thread on empire management... and that is beyond the scope of this post.
The down side to city management is that you will generally settle beyond the Optimal City Number (OCN) which will contribute to increased corruption.
Tighter city builds can be a weakness in the industrial and modern era, as it can sometimes be tricky to get such cities optimized at size 12.
For this game I recommend that the team do three things

First, ignore my dotmap altogether.
Second, experiment with dotmapping a "tight" settlement pattern
Start with an RCP first ring of 3.
Once you've developed the first ring, see what possibilities exist at different ring distances for the second ring.
Third, experiment with a "loose" settlement pattern, with an RCP first ring of... let's try 6.

If you guys would like to divide the work, perhaps the team leader could split things up a little bit... let a couple of teammates put some ideas together for a "tight" pattern, and a couple of others put together a plan for a "loose" pattern.

Bad news...I just found that I'm going to have to go out of town for my grandma's birthday and Memorial Day Weekend. I hope this won't upset the game too much, but I'm not going to be able to play for at least a week or two, so I doubt I'll get back in time to play the SG. :( Thanks for inviting me, though. :cry:

Roster then:

Pequenino: Just played
goodsmell: skipped
choxorn: Up, will get to playing
Yagtag: ghosting for a week or two
cody: On Deck
Little Corporal
William

If you guys would like to divide the work, perhaps the team leader could split things up a little bit... let a couple of teammates put some ideas together for a "tight" pattern, and a couple of others put together a plan for a "loose" pattern.


Im not really sure, but i think that the loose patern is gonna be a bit more difficult, so how about cody and choxorn take it up. I guess goodsmell, William, and I will take up the tight pattern one?


@yagtag7: No problem. We´ll skip you in your turns, when u get back, just post so in this thread and will bring u back into the roster.:D :D

I prefer to do the the less difficult job since I barely understand you guys especialy Scoutsout's high english . before almost every post of mine , I'm trying to write it the best I can for you guys ;) . and as you can see It's done unsuccessfuly , maybe a bit successful.

so I prefer the job when I should'nt participate too much with detailed posts .
It's okay ? well I hope so ..

I prefer to do the the less difficult job since I barely understand you guys especialy Scoutsout's high english . before almost every post of mine , I'm trying to write it the best I can for you guys ;)
Goodsmell, you do very well at getting your ideas across. :goodjob: I don't know what is your first language, but I probably couldn't write it as well as you do with English.

Yes, Scout speaks very, very good English indeed. Orthagonal? :hmm: ;)

I'm done. Here's the log:

No Pre-turn as the save was on turn 16.

Turn 1 (3250 BC):
-The scout and the Warrior explore. Dang it, I forgot to change the production in Washington.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 2 (3200 BC):
-This time, I remember to switch to Granary.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 3 (3150 BC):
-Warrior discovers hut

IBT:
-Worker finishes cutting down forest

Turn 4 (3100 BC):
-Thanks to chop, Granary will finish before Washington grows, so I switch to Barracks then back to Granary to waste some shields. Strangely, it won't let me build the Pyramids.
-Worker roads, and I tell him to build more later in the set.
-Warrior pops a Settler from the hut. I send him to Yellow dot- He'll get there in 8 turns.

IBT:
-Get WC- start research on Wheel
-Treasury is running dangerously low, so I decrease science by 10% until we get city #2 (but I forgot to change it back :lol: )

Turn 5-Turn 6 IBT:
zzz

Turn 7 (2950 BC):
-Switch Washington back to Settler, as it will grow next turn.

IBT:
-Washington: Settler->Barracks

Turn 8-Turn 10 IBT:
zzz

Turn 11 (2750 BC):
-Settler on White dot settles New York- set it to Warrior
-Scout and Warrior pop huts. Scout gets zip, Warrior gets CB and discovers that NW arm is a penninsula.

IBT:
-Palace Expansion- go with landscaping
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Palace.JPG

Turn 12 (2710 BC):
-Settler on Yellow dot settles Boston- set it to Warrior

And, nothing happened the rest of the set except the worker building roads and the Warrior and scout moving around. I reccomend we get some more workers, build some more cities, and keep exploring until we find another civ.

Here's the save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Pequenino_SG2.SAV)

Okay... I know this isn't a "Training Game", but I saw a couple of things in your log that I feel the need to comment on.
Turn 4 (3100 BC):
-Thanks to chop, Granary will finish before Washington grows, so I switch to Barracks then back to Granary to waste some shields. Strangely, it won't let me build the Pyramids.There are a couple of points I want to make about this one.
The reason you couldn't start the Pyramids is a basic part of the game mechanics. You cannot build a Wonder if there are any shields in the bin from a forest chop, pop rush, cash rush, or short rush.
If the game wouldn't let you queue up the Pyramids, why did you waste the shields from the forest chop? This was needless.
I don't mean to tell you how to play, but I think building wonders should be a decision made by the team. Wonders are very expensive, and it's generally poor form to queue up a wonder without discussing it with your teammates first. An expensive wonder like the Pyramids should almost never be queued up at this stage of a game.
I highly recommend that each of you read Ision's Wonder Addiction (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/wonder_addiction.php) article in the War Academy, if you haven't already.

-Get WC- start research on WheelThis is something that you guys will learn about when you start playing the higher levels; it generally makes more sense to spend your gold researching second-tier techs and buying the first-tier techs from the AI.

Turn 7 (2950 BC):
-Switch Washington back to Settler, as it will grow next turn.

IBT:
-Washington: Settler->BarracksThis is where you're starting to get your game off track. You peeled off a settler before you completed the granary... this has two negative effects. First, this depleted your population, and secondly, it robbed the shields from the build you most need to build population - a granary. Granaries are what allow a city's population to bounce back twice as quickly after losing the 2 citizens needed to make a settler. And it's too early to build a barracks. The time will come for conquest, but right now you guys need to focus on grabbing as much land as you can in this first stage of the game.

-Thanks to chop, Granary will finish before Washington grows, so I switch to Barracks then back to Granary to waste some shields.
This is in addition to Scout's comments. I read and re-read this several times earlier tonight and this morning, trying to figure out what you had in mind. At first I thought you were making a joke about wasting the shields, having switched to a barracks and accidentally missed the warning about the shield loss. I hope you didn't do it on purpose.

Maybe you were joking (I can't be sure), but I hope you're aware that you should WANT the granary to complete BEFORE growth. Once you have a granary, it only takes 10 food to refill and grow again. Without a granary, it takes 20 food to grow, and growth is extremely important in the early game. By not having a granary, it takes twice as long to grow, so it is sometimes worth even slowing down your growth by a turn or two to get the granary first, but never the other way around.

So 2 more cities? and one building the Piramids?.........Well, i don´t usually build the Pyramids early in the game, but i do think that its effect will be very useful, especially since we are playing continents, and not archipelago.

Like gma, i didn´t understand the whole Granary thing at first either, but i guess its pretty much sorted out by now.

@goodsmell: Don´t worry, i think the pattern i chose for us in the RCP, is the easiest, and there´s gonna be 3 of us working on it, so don´t worry about ur English :D

You don't usually build Pyramids early , well I never build the Pyramids in the game because I don't really need Granaries in all my empire , where Granary is needed I will manually build it, without Pyramids ( Pyramids it's just wasting shields ) .

* I realize now you were wrong with building a Settler , choxorn we still see no civs so we don't need to rush . we can build granary to make our capitol grow faster and then go for expansion .
* After building our Settler in Washington ( Already said I don't like this ) you went for Barracks when we still see no enemies ( civs ) so we'll actually pay maintence for nothing.
I was'nt protest if Barracks were done after the neccessary stuff and then build our military.
but now it's not neccessary and I've a wildguess that we're ALONE in the island .

* I'm sorry I'd no comment when Pequenino played his turnset about the researching .
I barely understand why researching WarriorCode , I think we better were going for Wheel if we want militaristic tech ( horses are better since movement and retreat skill ) . and probably we'll meet few civs soon , and I've pretty sure one of them or even more will be militaristic and as I remmember they'll have the WC ( we'll be able to trade this and not research ) .

@Gmaharriet - Thanks for the compliment , and I'm living in Israel so my language is Hebrew , but I born in Ukraine ( USSR ;) ) . so my strong languages are Hebrew , Russian and the weakest English and I was thinking to learn German & Spanish .
I'm really impressed Scout's english , sometimes I've to translate words :D

I barely understand why researching WarriorCode , I think we better were going for Wheel if we want militaristic tech ( horses are better since movement and retreat skill ) . and probably we'll meet few civs soon , and I've pretty sure one of them or even more will be militaristic and as I remmember they'll have the WC ( we'll be able to trade this and not research ) .




Well i think WC is a lesser tech compared to Wheel, and like Scoutsout said, it´s better to research lower techs, and then buy the "bigger" ones from other advanced civs. So i was kind of hoping we weren´t alone in the island, and that we could trade with other civs soon in the game. I saw my own demise (recall post number 88, in the Post Turn paragraph), AFTER i played my turnset, as i realized that we were hopelessly alone in a relatively small continent.

Sorry- thought the plan was to switch to Granary then back to Settler at growth time for some reason- oops. And about Pyramids- none of the cities are currently building it. I only tryed to build it so I could switch back to Settler. After switching to Barracks after Settler built- d'oh! I think next player should switch it to Granary, then start building some Settlers to get some more cities. As for researching WC, I agree with you, Goodsmell. The AI always researches it right after BW. Mil civs (in this game, Aztecs) start with WC (except Japan), and Sci civs (in this game, Russia) research it off the bat. And Germany, who is Sci-Mil, starts with BW and WC. In other words, it's a tech we could have easily gotten form another AI, and these civs already have it (well, russia probably does), and I don't know about the other civs. If all the AI have researched one tech right now, Aztecs, England, France, and Egypt researched BW, Russia got WC, and Germany got Wheel. And some of them have probably met by now, and traded their starting techs. So- we're probably in last place right now.

Well i think WC is a lesser tech compared to Wheel, and like Scoutsout said, it´s better to research lower techs, and then buy the "bigger" ones from other advanced civs.

He said research the bigger ones and buy the smaller ones.

This is something that you guys will learn about when you start playing the higher levels; it generally makes more sense to spend your gold researching second-tier techs and buying the first-tier techs from the AI.




@choxorn: Arent first-tier techs bigger? If not, then i WAS wrong, but i doubt that first-tier techs are smaller.

No, the first-tier techs are cheaper than the later techs. Maybe you could explain it, scoutsout?

Choxorn is correct that 1st tier techs are cheaper. Talking about the "tiers" can be a little confusing, because most types of tiers (like rows of seats at a theater or sports arena) are horizontal. In the Civ tech tree, they are vertical, starting on the left-hand side. Also, the 1st tier techs sometimes seem more expensive, because you earn so little gold in the early turns, and it takes so long to get them.

The AI almost always researches all of the 1st tier techs before going to the 2nd, so if you go for the 2nd tier of a tech your civ starts with, you have a good chance of getting it before the AI's, and it makes good trade bait. Since America starts with Pottery and Masonry, it's impossible to go directly for either of its 2nd tier techs...Mathematics also needs Alphabet first...Map Making needs both Alphabet and Writing.

If you were playing a civ that starts with Ceremonial Burial like Egypt, it would make sense to go for Mysticism first. If you were playing Germany and started with Bronze Working, you could go for Iron Working. Japan has a big advantage in being the only civ to start with the Wheel, which is good for trading, but they can't research Horseback Riding until they learn Warrior Code.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/180352/Tech_Tree.JPG

In the Civ tech tree, they are vertical, starting on the left-hand side.


Alright, now i understand:D

I've been gone for a few days, sorry 'bout that. I think it's my turn. How many turns should I play?

the regular 15, until we reach IA , then it goes down to 10

Alright. Got it. :D

Since America starts with Pottery and Masonry, it's impossible to go directly for either of its 2nd tier techs...Mathematics also needs Alphabet first...Map Making needs both Alphabet and Writing.


True. BW, Alpha, and CB all lead directly to a second-tier tech. However, Masonry needs Alpha to get to its second-tier tech, WC and Wheel need each other, and Pottery needs Alpha and Writing. This disadvantages America (start Pottery and Masonry, as we already know), China (starts with WC and Masonry), and Zululand (starts with Pottery and WC), along with more civs in PTW and C3C.

Gmaharriet about Japan , if they've Wheel they can easly trade it for WarriorCode + gold or more techs , and then go for Horseback riding ..the advantage in early Wheel researching is that you can see where the near Horses located and try to settle there before the AI will , else you won't know about the Horses and then you'll see AI settled on these areas .

since I've horsemen , I don't touch Archers . they're too slow and not that strong . horsemen can retreat and it's helpful .

I don't touch Archers . they're too slow and not that strong .

But they´re usually tougher against spears, which are th units the AI mostly uses to defend cities in AA

look you've more chances to conquer an AI faster with Horsemen than with Archers .
They've 2 movement points , and actually they both have the same stats of defending and attacking .
now , we've WC we can produce Archers untill we've the Wheel of course if we'll meet the AI . if we won't meet the AI and will only produce unit to defend our cities it'll be good .

and oh Pequenino I just now realize you did'nt update the roster in the 1st page ;)

But they´re usually tougher against spears, which are th units the AI mostly uses to defend cities in AA

True, Horse vs. Spear, Spear usually seems to win, but Archers and Horsemen have the same odds of beating a spear. Check the combat calculator. (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/combatcalc.php)

Spear doesn't seem to win usually , you think so because in the most of the cases you're attacking a Foritrified spear , am I right ? when the spear is unforitrified with settler or something , you can easily win him .

Spear doesn't seem to win usually , you think so because in the most of the cases you're attacking a Foritrified spear , am I right ? when the spear is unforitrified with settler or something , you can easily win him .


Right but since horsemen tend to loose against fortified spears, even though they theoretically have the same odds to win, they are better used against enemy civ attackers (such as Warriors and Swordsmen), while Archers, due to their "luck" (if u want to call it so, since they have the same odds), tend to win against fortified spears, so they are better used against defending enemy cities. By researching WC i was planning ahead, an attack against an enemy city, after all: The best defense is a good offense;) :D :D

Hey guys,

My internet was disconnected this weekend and then I will be moving in two weeks. I will likely get it reconnected in the meantime, but I don't really see myself having the ability to contribute either for the next week or for any time after that. Sorry, maybe next time. ;) I will still follow along from time to time, but who knows when I will get email again.

Again, Sorry

after all: The best defense is a good offense;) :D :D
And vice versa. So, William is ghosting, eh? I guess this is a roster:

Pequino
goodsmell
choxorn: Just Played
yagtag: Ghosting
cody: UP
Little Corporal: On Deck
William: Ghosting

@William: Dam it!:lol: :lol: Well drop some advice from time to time, and if u can play again, i´ll be happy to include u in the roster once more.

So cody, when is that log coming up?????

I don't know , I don't really believe what you said is truth . I guess that you decided that Archers are better mabe because the horsemen retreat when he redlined , and Archer does'nt retreat on redline and making miracles :D . but hey , as Infantry can stop a Tank , so warrior can stop a swordman or something , and it can happen more than 5 times in a row .

I don't know how to explain my opinion , I hope you understood .
well cody we are all waiting for your turnset .

I haven't played vanilla in a while, does Philosophy give a free tech in it? If so, I recommend we go for the Republic Slingshot, then we can easily catch up to the AI.

Lurker:

No, only C3C has the free tech.

Lots of good discussion in here... but I wish you guys would work on some dotmaps. ;)

I enjoy the discussion about horses and archers v. spears... but it's a bit early for that yet. Something Choxorn posted on the last page provoked some questions in my mind.
Choxorn said something about being "hopelessly alone on this continent". Is this true?
If true, what are the research implications of this?
How might this affect a Vanilla game compared to a C3C game?

Ergh dang it... someone else take the turnset. I've been really sick lately. Sorry. :(

Choxorn said something about being "hopelessly alone on this continent". Is this true?

Pequino said it, not me. But I do think we might be alone.

Oh, and a Roster that I hope won't change any more:

Pequino: On deck
goodsmell
choxorn: Just played
yagtag: Ghosting
cody: skipped
Little Corporal: UP
William: Ghosting

Okay we'll wait the 24hours untill' we see got it post by Little Corporal , if he won't I guess Pequenino will be the next . I'm pretty sure I won't skip my next turnset .

So let's rock I'm waiting ;)

I sure hope this turnset will get played already. it's been 60+ hours since I posted my set, and everybody keeps getting ghosted or skipped.

Lots of good discussion in here... but I wish you guys would work on some dotmaps. ;)

I enjoy the discussion about horses and archers v. spears... but it's a bit early for that yet. Something Choxorn posted on the last page provoked some questions in my mind.
Choxorn said something about being "hopelessly alone on this continent". Is this true?
If true, what are the research implications of this?
How might this affect a Vanilla game compared to a C3C game?



I think i was the first one to actually post my comments on that thought, so i´ll answer:

1)It most probably is :D I don´t believe we have explored the entire continent yet, but if we haven´t, all that remains are really really small shadowed areas, where i doubt even a civ could hide. Am i right on that choxorn? (i ask you since u were the last to play the game)

2)We´ll probably have to make due with what we have for a while (until enemy civs research Map Making, and THEN get to building some Galleys). So i highly recommend we try to do us much MM´ing as we can in our cities, to get the most gold we can (for research), and focus a lot on our economic activities, not to mentio work all gold mountains.:king: :crazyeye: :lol:

3)Like i said in first post:( , i don´t have Conquest or PTW, so i can´t really compare:cry: :cry:

Ok, why does the file keep opening up under Civ Assist 2? Choxorn, could you just email the file directly to me? Here's my email: ianoberle@gmail.com

Ok, why does the file keep opening up under Civ Assist 2? Choxorn, could you just email the file directly to me? Here's my email: ianoberle@gmail.com
So far as I know, a .sav file opens with CAII if you click on the file without opening the game. If you open the game first, then click on "load game" (or is it "load file"?), navigate to the save and then click on it, it should open properly. Then it's your choice if you also want to run CAII in the background.

So far as I know, a .sav file opens with CAII if you click on the file without opening the game. If you open the game first, then click on "load game" (or is it "load file"?), navigate to the save and then click on it, it should open properly. Then it's your choice if you also want to run CAII in the background.
Its odd though, I can't get the save off my web browser(opera) onto my computer. When I try to put it on my Local Disk it just says that the local disk "can't handle the file" or something like that. I've emailed myself saves before, so I should be able to get this to work.

So basically, when you try to put it in your C:/Program Files/Infogrames Interactive/Civilization III/Saves folder, it won't let you. And what do you mean, "under CAII"?

Its odd though, I can't get the save off my web browser(opera) onto my computer. When I try to put it on my Local Disk it just says that the local disk "can't handle the file" or something like that. I've emailed myself saves before, so I should be able to get this to work.
I don't know about what effect Opera would have on downloading the file, but I use IE, so I'm not certain.

When I click on a save, I get a message asking if I want to "open" or "save" the file. I click "save" and browse to where the rest of my games are saved and save it directly to my hard drive. I don't think it goes through my browser at all. I think maybe if I clicked "open" when the message came up, that might cause CAII to open the file.

It's hard to offer suggestions without being able to see what you're looking at. :hmm:

And what do you mean, "under CAII"?
You can open any save with CAII without having the game running. You can see the map and lots of information about the file, though you can't play the game at all that way.

Alright, when I right click on the save here's what comes up:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/EvenBetterThanTheRealDonkeyman/Tech%20Help/Screenshot1.jpg
Edit: That's really hard to see I know, try copying it into paint and looking at it.

Okay, I guess I will email it to you.

Try LEFT-clicking on this link:

Ok, after discovering the left mouse-button I've finally got it! I'll play it either tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

Ok, here's my turnset:
Pre-turn: Switch Washington from Barracks to Granary. We don't need veteran units yet, so the barracks will just drain our money. Granary will let us build more settlers/workers. Have the worker(renamed Worker 1 for easy reference) mine the BG 1 NW of New York.

Turn 1: Warrior in NY finishes, I fortify him in the city and start work on a scout. I continue exploration.

Turn 2: Warrior in Boston finishes, he's fortified in the city. I start work on a scout. I explore some more.

Turn 3: Worker 1 finishes his mine. I begin building a road towards where I plan to expand next (here)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/EvenBetterThanTheRealDonkeyman/Pequenino%20SG%202/FirstDotmap.jpg
I explore.

Turn 4: Worker 1 starts his road 2 S of Washington. I explore.

Turn 5: My Scout in New York finishes. I send him to the SW. NY starts building a warrior.

Turn 6: We learn the wheel! I go for Bronze Working ( 8 turns)
Boston's scout finishes. I start a warrior.
Worker 1's road finishes. He moves 1 NW.
I, suprisingly, continue exploring. ANd I find the Aztecs!
They offer me this trade:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/EvenBetterThanTheRealDonkeyman/Pequenino%20SG%202/Aztecfirstcontact.jpg
I accept.
They only have 2 cities, and they seem to be in inhospitable awful jungle, so we'll be fine methinks.

Turn 7: Worker 1 starts his road. I explore some more.

Turn 8: Washington finishes its granary. Settler is started. New York finishes its warrior. Settler started. I move the warrior towards the new city location and explore.

Turn 9: Worker 1 finishes his road. He starts irrigating the tile he was on. The warrior moves onto the tile the city will be founded on. I explore more. The southwest seems to mostly be tundra and hills behind the mountains. But there are dyes down there.

Turn 10: The warrior fortifies on the new city site.More exploration.

Turn 11: Boston builds its warrior. It starts a worker(he can be devoted to making this city viable.
I explore.

Turn 12: Worker 1 finishes his irrigation. He move to the new city location. I explore.

Turn 13: Worker 1 moves to the forest 1 NW of him. I explore, and continue
moving the Boston warrior towards Washington

Turn 14: We learn Bronze Working. I research Alphabet(12 turns)
Washington builds the settler. It starts a worker. The Boston warrior reaches Washington.
Worker 1 starts a road on the forest.

Turn 15: The Aztecs have built another city near us. The settler moves into position on the city site. I move the warrior towards New York.

Here's our empire after all this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/EvenBetterThanTheRealDonkeyman/Pequenino%20SG%202/Americaaftermyfirstturn.jpg

Azteca:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/EvenBetterThanTheRealDonkeyman/Pequenino%20SG%202/FirstAztecEmpirescreenshot.jpg

And a dotmap:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/EvenBetterThanTheRealDonkeyman/Pequenino%20SG%202/SecondDotmap.jpg

I would go for red dot first, then teal.

Here's the save:
Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Pequenino_SG21.SAV)

I, suprisingly, continue exploring. ANd I find the Aztecs!



About time! :S :lol:

so my turn next ain´t it?........consider this a got it then, i will probably play tonight.:goodjob:

Ohh that's great we've two horses near our territory !

Red dot is nice , we'll capture horses + river + 2 Wheat on our non-expanded city , then we'll have the fish . I won't avoid the place north to red dot , it has river and 3 BG's !
and it's only CxxxC from NY as reddot does .

now something on your turnset , I think we could research Alphabet or something instead of researching Bronze Working especialy you started to research it when you did'nt meet Aztecs . ( researching 3 militaristic techs in a row , when there are no civs we've met IS MISTAKE ! ) .

we really need this 2nd Scout ? can't we just explore the remain side of continent with our Warrior ?

and btw why did'nt you work the BG and roaded the forest with the Game :(
I hope next player will do so , with the worker that will be built in our Capitol

EDIT : I forgot to say that I'm glad we finally met the Aztecs that are so LOW , they really f****d up with the jungle .

Ohh that's great we've two horses near our territory !

Red dot is nice , we'll capture horses + river + 2 Wheat on our non-expanded city , then we'll have the fish . I won't avoid the place north to red dot , it has river and 3 BG's !
and it's only CxxxC from NY as reddot does .

now something on your turnset , I think we could research Alphabet or something instead of researching Bronze Working especialy you started to research it when you did'nt meet Aztecs . ( researching 3 militaristic techs in a row , when there are no civs we've met IS MISTAKE ! ) .

we really need this 2nd Scout ? can't we just explore the remain side of continent with our Warrior ?

and btw why did'nt you work the BG and roaded the forest with the Game :(
I hope next player will do so , with the worker that will be built in our Capitol

EDIT : I forgot to say that I'm glad we finally met the Aztecs that are so LOW , they really f****d up with the jungle .
The scouts are a lot easier to explore with then warriors, so I figured I'd explore with them, then we can disband them when we find everything on our island. As for Bronze Working, I just generally like to hvae that tech, as it gives us a lot of diffferent stuff we can use.

. As for Bronze Working, I just generally like to hvae that tech, as it gives us a lot of diffferent stuff we can use.
I agree w/ u on that;)

Out of curiousity when do you plan on using BW? How many spears will be built over the next 30 turns? Are you planning on building more spears or horses?

1) As soon as its done researching :lol:
2)Can´t really answer that :(.......but i would guess at least one for every city, and maybe a few more if we plan an invasion against Monty :D
3)Well, if we DO invade, then i think it´d be better to build more horsemen rather than spears......but if we are just looking for a more defensive stance, then i gues spears it is

Why would you be on the defensive and why do you need one in every city? In reality, aren't horses better at defense than spears? You ask how? Think about the benefits a horse offers that a spear does not. Same with offense. What can attack Monty faster?

Why would you be on the defensive and why do you need one in every city? In reality, aren't horses better at defense than spears? You ask how? Think about the benefits a horse offers that a spear does not. Same with offense. What can attack Monty faster?

1) I was just saying IN CASE we ever were in the defensive:p . I´d like to send the warriors that are currently defending to attack Monty, as i find that spears are better for defending.
2)I don´t know:( , i DO know that i find them better at offense:D .
3)Certainly the horse would attack him faster, thats why i said i´d rather have the spears for defending;)

I don´t know:( , i DO know that i find them better at offense

and the best defence is offense.

and the best defence is offense.

That´s exactly what I said a few posts ago;) :D :D :lol: :king:

That´s exactly what I said a few posts ago;) :D :D :lol: :king:

No, I think you are missing my point. You said that you would build spears in case you were on the defensive; even if you are on the defensive, horses are the best units to build as they make more effective defenders.

they make more effective defenders.




Everybody keeps on saying that, but i would swear they die more often than spears while defending..at least in MY games.:confused: :confused: :confused:



BTW, I couldn´t load the saved game. I ran CivIII and it wouldn´t let me load it (there r some pix of the messages i got below), if somebody knows whats wrong plz say so fast (and how to fix it :D). Also, i could load it with CivAssistII just fine:confused:

Pix:

@ Peqeunino --Bucephalus makes a good point.

There is very little need for spears at this and potentially any stage of this game.

Would you agree the focus should be on expansion not military?

From what I can tell you have plenty of warriors running around and may even be at a cost to your economy at this point. Monty won't bother you till he runs out of space. Trust me on this.

I think goodsmell also made a very good point when he asked why BW? AI behavior tells us they will defend first so that's a tech they'll research (for you). Another tech research could've resulted in an eventual trade for BW and later IW.

By the time you're ready to go military you'd rather have horses and swords. Initiate the action rather than absorb the action.
The idea is to always put yourself at an advantage to your enemy. Horses cover more ground on offense and defense and can retreat from a skirmish. A spear will always defend to the death.

An example, Since I know you won't let Monty anywhere remotely close to a city and if he does you probably have a sword there not a spear. ;)
If an enemy archer or warrior is 3 tiles away a horse can move up 1 tile and still be out of range. If the AI moves up another tile the horse can attack that unit. The spear will need to fortify and absorb the onslaught. Now add terrain to the equation and you have a winning proposition. Let the AI walk into your "funnel of death". :D

Everybody keeps on saying that, but i would swear they die more often than spears while defending..at least in MY games.

If I understand you correctly, you are literally defending with horses? A horseman defends by attacking the AI offensive units before they reach your cities, then retreating to the safety of the city until next turn.

Lurker:

It is likey a vanilla or ptw save was loaded and saved in C3C. It could also happen with a down level patch.

As to the horses and defending. what I think they are trying to say is not that a horse will do as well on being attacked as a spear, but in the aggregate you will comeout as well or better with a horse.

This is due to the horse being able to get to an invader from farther away and being able to retreat if it is in the open at times. Add to that the ability to attack, where a spear has very low attack probabilities.

Lurker:

It is likey a vanilla or ptw save was loaded and saved in C3C.


I think that´s it, cuz Little Corporal had some icons in his screenshots, that Vanilla doesn´t have. So how do i fix it?:confused:

Another point to consider is that should hostilities break-out you will be facing JW's which have two movements. If you sit in cities waiting to be attacked they will pillage your infastructure, ruining your economy and damaging your ability to replace lost fighters. Also their first victory will give them a GA, increasing the production of further JW's.

A horseman defends by attacking the AI offensive units before they reach your cities, then retreating to the safety of the city until next turn.How might you apply the same concept with slow movers like Swordsmen or MDI? (Hint: This is as much a question about game mechanics as tactics...)

I think that´s it, cuz Little Corporal had some icons in his screenshots, that Vanilla doesn´t have. So how do i fix it?:confused:
So far as I know, DataIO errors always mean the save is in a newer version of the game than you have. The only cure I know of is for Little Corporal to replay his turns in vanilla from the old save file (unless you want to upgrade your game version ;) ). I have no idea if replaying will change anything that happened, but he could try doing it using his own turnlog to remember what he did and in what order.

I think that´s it, cuz Little Corporal had some icons in his screenshots, that Vanilla doesn´t have. So how do i fix it?:confused:

I doubt it can be done, other than reloading prior that point. If the reserve is on and the same things are done in the same order, it won't change anything.

Actually it is only things that use the RNG need to be the same order.

My standpoint on military: Offense: Swords, Archers, Horses. Defense: Spears, a few swords. On city placement: I like the red dot. However, I think scout or gmh should do the dotmap.

An observation
How might you apply the same concept with slow movers like Swordsmen or MDI? (Hint: This is as much a question about game mechanics as tactics...)
I'm not playing, but I'd like to throw something out, case I'm not too sure either.

If the enemy had sent a giant SOD at you, it could be employed the same way, because even after your swords victory, he would retreat to the safety of the city. This would not work as effectively if the forces we surrounding your city, as the sword would remain in the square, open to counter attack.

lurker tags: [delurk] [ /delurk] ommiting the space.

If the enemy had sent a giant SOD at you, it could be employed the same way, because even after your swords victory, he would retreat to the safety of the city.Exactly. :thumbsup:

@Choxorn: I'm not going to do the dotmapping here... part of the reason I suggested that the team go through that exercise is so that the players would see things they hadn't seen before. I think this is every bit as important as seeing what I might see.

Ok guys, I think I'm gonna have to drop out then, cause I have C3 Complete, and that seems to make everything Conquests.

As for all the people who think me researching BW was a bad thing, I didn't do it for spears. I did it because it leads to several important techs(Iron Working) It was the fastest researching tech available, so I figured that I could just speed through that then do Alphabet.

Sorry about having to drop out!

Little Corporal with C3 complete you have vanilla and PTW as well. You'll be able to load it from here.

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Civilization III Complete

Look for [civ3]

Oh, really? Well that's good. I'll redo my turn tomorrow.

Alright, Little Corporal


Thx Whomp! :D

Another point to consider is that should hostilities break-out you will be facing JW's which have two movements. If you sit in cities waiting to be attacked they will pillage your infastructure, ruining your economy and damaging your ability to replace lost fighters. Also their first victory will give them a GA, increasing the production of further JW's.

Damn good point, it is like a double whammy


BTW, I am around this weekend and next, so put me in the roster and lemme know when my turn is....I am anxious to get in.

@Goodsmell: What language do you play Civ in? Just curious. PM me if you want to explain something in Spanish or German...I'd likely figure it out. ALso, I am learning Russian, so if we can type Cyrillic, it would be cool :)

Well, if u r back, then u go after Little Corporal, and then it´ll be my turn

Okay let's stay tuned and wait untill' my turnset will be played ;)

William I'm playing english version and I've no problems with it .
and hmm personally I prefer to keep typing english because in that way I'll learn it faster.
I don't think there are many people here who know russian . about the German and spanish , actually I know just few words in deutsch and a bit more than few words in Spanish lang . but If you'll start to talk in Spanish I'll be like "what the hell you want from me?" , lol . I can only read and use translator ;)

still no word from Little Corporal?

Well, he has 13 more hrs to post his set, or he's skipped.

According to the rules on the first post, Little Corporal's time is up:


6 Players (including me)
20 turns each player in AA and MA, and 10 turns in IA and MA
24 hours to confirm
24-72 to play and post


As it's been 72 hrs since Corporal said


Oh, really? Well that's good. I'll redo my turn tomorrow.


So he's skipped and it's William's trun.

Sorry guys, life stuff came up and I couldn't do it.

Okay then, Roster:

Pequenino: On deck
goodsmell
choxorn: Just Played
yagtag, cody, Corporal: skipped
William: UP

Man, skips are making this set take forever to play. My set was posted 8 days ago.

I can play after William now that I'm back, if that's okay.

You could probably just play now if William doesn't mind.

I don't mind, if that was the original order. Just because I didn't think I would be in befor I didn't pay attention to where to find the file anyway...:mischief:

OOps, I forgot to ask..where do I find it again?

I can go later this week, no problemo

Okay, then, Roster:

Pequenino
goodsmell
choxorn: Just Played
yagtag: Ghosting
cody: UP
Corporal: might play next
William: On deck if Corporal is still too busy

Alright, got it.

Cody has had more than 5 days, his time is way past up. He is skipped. Corporal, are you still too busy or can you play now?

Roster:

Pequenino
goodsmell
choxorn: just played
yagtag: ghosting, but might be back now.
cody: skipped
Corporal: UP
William: On deck

I'm away from my Civ comp right now, but I can play it Sunday night

I'll interpret that as a "got it".

Sorry guys, but I'm gonna have to drop out of this. I've got lots of coursework to do, and I can already play on regent well(so I don't need a regent training game)
It was fun while it lasted though!

Bye, Corporal! New roster:

Pequenino: On deck
goodsmell
choxorn: Just played- 17 days ago!
yagtag: skipped
cody: skipped
William: UP

With all the skips and now a drop I would hate to see this game die.

So if you would let me I would love to join in on this game.

Just by this tread alone I learn alot about the RCP. It done wonders for my home games.

Personally I think we need this change , Little Corporal is out so let's take a player that wants to play this Regent game .

@Little Corporal - I can deal with Regent too , I'm now beating the Emperor ( someties lose someties win ) , but it's still fun

:agree: with goodsmell. You are welcome to join if the team agrees.

William's 24h are up, so once again, roster:

Pequenino: On deck
goodsmell
choxorn: 18 days ago was his set posted.
yagtag: skipped
cody: skipped
William: skipped
JJJspider?: UP if in this SG

IF I am voted in. I picked up the save and played it. Here it is:
IF NOT Just Void the the Turns:
Sorry Still learning on how to Snap Screenies none of those.

Pre-turn
I Notice Our Empire is short workers:
Switch Wasington to Gran:
Set work to Mine BG

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 1 2550BC:
New York warrior -> Worker:
Explore

IBT:
Barbs approach Scout

Turn 2 2510BC:
Boston: Warrior -> Archer

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 3 2470BC:
Worker Fishes Mine 2nd BG

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 4 2430BC:
ZZZ

IBT: Barbs Still Following Scout

Turn 5 2390BC:
ZZZ

IBT: Barb Aproach Scouting Warrior

Turn 6 2350 BC:
New York: Worker -> Archer
Wheel in 1 Slider Down 5gpt
Worker to Road Boston
Worker to Forest to Chop for Washington:

IBT: Barb Sucides against Warrior:

Turn 7 2310BC:
Wheel comes in set to Alph in 14 @ 100%:

Meet Monty : Trade Wheel for BW and 2gp
Trade Pot, Mas for Myst

Barbs Approach Undefend Boston Switch to Warrior in 1

IBT : Get Move troops from Monty

Turn 8 2270BC:
Fort Warrior in Boston
Take out Barb Camp for 25 GP

IBT: Barb Sucide Against Boston:

Turn 9 2230BC:
Was: Gran -. Barracks with Forst Chop in 3 turns

IBT : Barb Following Scout Kill Jaug and pilliages Techn.

Turn 10 2190BC:
Scouring Warrior Kill Barb

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 11 2150BC:
Warrior Take out Barb Camp but is Redlined

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 12 2110BC:
ZZZ

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 13:
ZZZ

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 14 2030BC:
More Scout After Healed Warrior

IBT: ZZZ

Turn 15 1990BC:
Wash: Barrack - >Setter

Summary: Needs More Workers, Need to get some Growth I MM as best I could to get some Growth Faster in Wash and NY swaping the Mined BG.

The Save

I sure hope you're in so this game won't slow any longer. :)

oops, damn double post!

William? cody? Pequenino? yagtag? Is he in or not? I'll give you 24h to reply back here. But seriously, where are you guys?

I'd the things are'nt going good in these forum so I took a day or more and did'nt check few threads I've posted in . so I think the other guys had same situation , I think it happened because everybody asked to skip their turns .

Well, they've missed their deadline. I wonder why so many people just seem to disappear. JJJ, your in.

Roster:
Pequenino: UP
goodsmell: On deck
choxorn: for the first time in 3 weeks, not just played, Thank God!!!! :D
yagtag
cody
William
JJJ: Just Played

A Quick Screen of the Empire with Proposed Dot map

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6936/pegsgdotmap1ka.th.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pegsgdotmap1ka.jpg)

Blue: is Nice with all the those river and PLains Tiles to work

Red: I like because it is expanding towards Monty

Yellow: Nice Bonus and the Horses. However it is on the 2nd ring

I would GO 1st Red, 2nd Blue, 3rd Yellow

With all that Jungle between us and Monty. Horses aren't going to make much difference.

A Quick Screen of the Empire with Proposed Dot map

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6936/pegsgdotmap1ka.th.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pegsgdotmap1ka.jpg)

Blue: is Nice with all the those river and PLains Tiles to work

Red: I like because it is expanding towards Monty

Yellow: Nice Bonus and the Horses. However it is on the 2nd ring

I would GO 1st Red, 2nd Blue, 3rd Yellow

With all that Jungle between us and Monty. Horses aren't going to make much difference.
Blue dot could be split into two cities, one 3 SW of Washington and 1 3 Sw of New York.

JJJ- you don't need to wrap IMG tags around Urls. Oh, and since Pequenino has still not been heard from:

Roster:
Pequenino: WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU??
goodsmell: UP
choxorn: On deck
yagtag
cody
William
TripleJ: Just Played

Sorry guys,

I was ready two weeks ago, but then I lost internet for a week and I guess I missed my turn. :( I am moving next week and the non vacation for another two. I'ts been fun, maybe next time.

William: I'm guessing your post says that your out?

goodsmell has not posted a got it, so:

Pequenino: Location:???
goodsmell: skipped
choxorn: UP, got it
yagtag: On deck
cody
TripleJ: Just Played

Turnset complete. Unfortunately, the f***ing uploads server is down :mad:, so I'll wait until it comes up again to post it.

Good news, the server is back up! :) Now I can post the set.

Pre-Turn (1990 BC):
-everything looks good.

IBT:
-NY: Archer->rax

Turn 1 (1950 BC):
-Monty didn't ask the scout to leave, so I probe deeper into Aztec land.

IBT:
-Trade Advisor pops up and says worker finished Ivory road.
-Scout is still not asked to leave :D

Turn 2 (1910 BC):
-Guess what the scout does. Yep, probing. And he isn't asked to leave for many turns!

IBT:
zzz

Turn 3 (1870 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-Washington: Settler->Spear

Turn 4 (1830 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-My scout sees a barb warrior kill something- I'm almost certain it was an Aztec Jag.
-We learn Alphabet: Writing in 22

Turn 5 (1790 BC):
-The scout is no longer in Aztec land.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 6 (1750 BC):
-North of the Aztecs, There is a one-tile wide isthmus. The scout runs up it... and finds a barb camp blocking the way :mad:

IBT:
-The scout... survived... [party] :worship: :thanx: :cooool:
-barb warrior approaches settler.

Turn 7 (1725 BC):
-scout runs for life.

IBT:
-barb one tile from settler.
-Washington: Spear->Settler

Turn 8 (1700 BC):
-Settler runs, archer goes to kill barb
-another archer goes to kill barb warrior near boston

IBT:
-the barbs suicide against the archers- the Bostonian archer promotes to vet. (2-0)

Turn 9 (1675 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-a barb warrior in the south appears...

Turn 10 (1650 BC):
-The archer kills the barb. (3-0)

IBT:
-NY: rax->Settler

Turn 11 (1625 BC):
zzz

IBT:
-Boston: rax->Spear

Turn 12 (1600 BC):
-found Philadelphia
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Philadelphia.JPG

IBT:
-Washington: Settler->temple

Turn 13 (1575 BC):
-We may not be completely stranded after all:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Thirdciv.JPG
It's Yellow, meaning either Egypt or Zulu. I checked out Pequenino's post of his set, and I quote:
Check out Space Race, oppos are: Aztec, Russia, Germany, England, France, Egypt. So it's Egypt.

IBT:
:sleep:

Turn 14 (1550 BC):
-a Warrior in the south kills a barb warrior, wiping out a camp. (4-0)

IBT:
zzz

Turn 15 (1525 BC):
-crap, our scout (in Aztec territory atm) moved next to a barb warrior again!
-I decide to play an extra turn because of this, and because it gets us to a turn 60, a number divisible by 15.

IBT:
-The Aztecs finally ask us to get out :lol: Yah, sure, whatever, it doesn't matter if the barb kills the scout. (4-1)

Turn 16 (1500 BC):
zzz

I would post an endturn screenie and save, but the f***ing uploads server is down AGAIN!!! [pissed]

Intresting if we are quick to make contact with Egypt. We may be able to play some trading games before mapmaking.
It nice to see the Monty is still having issues with the Barbs this set to. Must be slowing his expansion down.
Now we just need to get Philly set up to a nice Settler/ worker pump.
Not so worried about Monty right now. He got his hands full with Barbs and that terrible land he has, he will be slow on the growth and really hinder his UU from invading too quick.
On to:
Expansion Expansion Expansion.

Philly should have placed 1 to the SW, then it would have been coastal and you could have fit in another city on the forest 1 E and 1 NE of Phillys current spot.

How did you know where it was? The screenshot is marked by a red x and a bunch of blank space. At least, from my computer...

the Current position of Philadelphia is great and I'll tell you why it worth more than 1SW from it . if it was on Coast it was nice but still it's not a fresh water I guess, and there would'nt be any BG's unless we Cultural Expanding but we don't want to build any building right ? so it's now great we've Wheat, Horses, River, BG's !

Exactly what I was thinking. Oh, and the server is back up again!!!! :) :)

Endturn screenshot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/PequeninoSG.JPG
Info:
-Settlers:
--Locations:
Where the Settler is standing, and the two dots.
---What the dots mean:
----The settler's position is good- Another Horse and BG. However, moving it 1N onto the hill would not be a bad idea.
----red dot:
Three BG's and a cow. SF anyone?
----Yellow dot:
A couple of fish, extends deeper into the south.
-Workers:
--Why is the wheat mined and the workers not on the Horse? My very sloppy worker management. :rolleyes:
-military:
--What they're doing:
---The Warriors in the SW are going to meet Egypt.
---The archer in the NW is barbhunting.
---The archer/warrior in the SE were barbhunting, but now they can come home.
-Other:
--Research MM after Writing! We have many Shallow Water bridges!

The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Pequenino,_1500_BC.SAV

the Current position of Philadelphia is great and I'll tell you why it worth more than 1SW from it . if it was on Coast it was nice but still it's not a fresh water I guess, and there would'nt be any BG's unless we Cultural Expanding but we don't want to build any building right ? so it's now great we've Wheat, Horses, River, BG's !
1 Sw would still be on the river, it would be the tile next to the coastal wheat.
Red dot isn't positioned very well, I would instead put a city 3N of Philly and a city 1E and 2NE of the city i just proposed. They would both have fresh water, and be reasonably productive.

Uh... 2N of Philly is on a BG, and 1E, 2NE of that is in water...

Also, roster:

Pequenino: hasn't been on CFC for a month (ghosting)
goodsmell
choxorn: Just Played
yagtag: hasn't been on CFC for a month (ghosting)
cody: UP
TripleJ: On deck

Before any playing is done, I'd like to take a vote: Should we continue with 15 turns or switch to 20? 20 was Pequenino's original plan, but he switched to 15 because we had 7 players. But now we have 6, and two of them haven't been on CFC for a month. I vote for 20.

I'll keep track of votes here:

15 turns: 1
20 turns: 1

time you have to vote: 1 week.

Why don't you take a break from being so rigid?

Sometimes there are natural breaks in the flow of the game when it makes sense to stop a few turns short or to play a few turns extra. Also, sometimes people just don't have time to play a full set without holding up the game for a day or two or even more...especially when the turns get longer during a war and late in the game. Sometimes players just get too tired to finish.

You might have fewer people dropping out of games if they can make those choices. It seems like a schedule ought to be more relaxed and flexible...but that's just my $0.02. :hmm:

Lurker:

One big reasonn most play with 10 turns per set, till it gets too much is that no one will know what is going on seeing the game in 100-140 turn intervals.

The game will bare so resemblence to the last time a player seen it. Too much can happen in twenty turns, so players will have little input on key events, unless the turn player stop to ask.

One of the things you can expect when you have an SG with a lot of non regulars is that they will not be attentive. You have to either roll with or drop them.

whoops, my directions were bad. I meant 3 N of Philly. Edited the post with he mistake.

@gma&vmxa:
I'm asking the group if they think we can do 20 turns. And remember that this game's pace is very slow- we're only at turn 60 when the game started a month ago, we have 4 cities, not much tech, know only the Aztecs (but we'll know Egypt soon)... I think we can take this game to a faster pace.
@Corporal: That makes sense.