GOTM 55 First Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have reached the middle ages.

This spoiler is restricted to your initial expansion and events on your home island/continent. You must have a full map of your home continent, and contact with at least one other civ.

Feel free to post about any experiences in the ancient-age, including any world events that affect your continent - but please do not discuss or show screenshots of anything off-continent (ie. don't show galley paths or other landforms etc).

Was your starting location suitable for you to get a good start in this deity game?

I went to 710 BC, and quit...:scan: continued on!

1.4000 BC
settle on spot. Pottery seems like a good tech to have. worker to cow.

2.3950 BC
worker roads cow.

4.3850 BC
worker finishes road, road ->irrigate cow.

5.3800 BC
warrior finishes, also worker finishes irrigating. warrior heads west, and worker heads toward the bg. Paris warrior -> warrior.

9.3600 BC
worker finishes road ->mine BG. warrior spots nothing but plains...

10.3550 BC
Paris warrior(MP) -> barracks, as prebuild for granary. culture borders expand to rank 2(10-99).

12.3450 BC
worker finishes on BG. heads toward wines. warrior still finds nothing...

13.3400 BC
worker starts roading wines. warrior sees yellow borders. it is the great Cleopatra!:egypt:

15.3350 BC
English scout pops south of Paris during the interturn, I say, "what up Liz?":rockon: , also Pottery done, going for Writing. Trade with Liz and what?!, Liz doesent seem to have anything but a mere 10 gold, and I have masonry.

16.3300 BC
worker finishes roading -> mining wines.ooh, but Cleo(:egypt:) has some nice things, so we trade her bronze and ceremonial burial + 10 gold pieces for my Alphabet. "nice trading with you Cleo", I says.:D

And thats when Joan got tired of writing a turnlog and thought it was silly and stupid to post a turnlog of a GOTM. So she decided to take quick notes. The granary finished in 3000 BC. Also, in 2670 BC, we spotted a English pair headed for our land, so decided to attack, and we succeeded with +2 slaves. 5 turns later, after surviving 3 warriors by building a spearman and delaying our expansion, we managed to make peace at their knowledge of WC + 10 gold for our knowledge of building temples. Soon, we realized we had crippled England and decided in the future, we would get rid of them :hammer:, since by the exploration charts done by our warriors, it seemed we were on a island with Liz. So it should be good bye Liz, and hello to the whole French island.:devil: Magnifique, this is!:smug: And that damn Cleopatra, she probably has a whole continent to herself with the other civilizations.:mad: Oh, and Orleans started a prebuild for our soon to be French Great Library, located in Orleans, France.:D Unfortunately, in 875 BC, the Greek city of Delphi had built the Great Library, and Joan de Arc stumbled to the floor and cried.:cry: Im not ready for Deity level, im sure...;)

I know its silly quitting after the GL was built, but I was way behind in tech. Liz was crippled, though, after the battle, she hasnt built any more cities, so I could probably make lots of troops and take over her 1/2 of the continent.:king:

EDIT: Pictures attached.

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/5874/gotm5515bp.th.jpg (http://img316.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gotm5515bp.jpg) http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/3473/gotm55pic27ql.th.jpg (http://img316.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gotm55pic27ql.jpg)

In 570 BC, I trade wines for HBR + 21 gold. "Yes!" Joan of Arc said when the deal was struck, the invasion of England would soon begin, after France became a monarchy and French troops wreaked havoc on England.:devil: Finally in 530 BC, Monarchy is researched and France revolts on a 4 turn anarchy period. Monarchy is still not sold. In 450 BC, Egypt declared war on Japan.:eek: "AI-AI wars, this is a great moment indeed", Cleopatra thought.:) And on the same year, France became a Monarchy. Finally in 350 BC, France traded Monarchy around and the whole world became different...:scan: ( Middle Ages reached : 350 BC.:king:)

-should I post a updated pic of the world?-

I came. I saw. I died a horrable death. Archers Can NOT beat Knights!!!!

I came. I saw. I died a horrable death. Archers Can NOT beat Knights!!!!

:lol: If my sig wasnt border-line limit, id stick it there.

I am 3-4 techs out of the MA, but everyone else is in them. Met England early, before i learnt Pottery but only 2 turns left. Wasnt worth it. Built a settler in Paris, then a granny for a 4-turner. Am building an army to attack my buddy Liz, mostly horses. I hate not having iron though...:( Mr. Green learnt Lit very early, preventing a monopoly. I doubt i will win, but if i kill a Deity AI ill be happy.

Open class, trying to win.

Entered the Middle Ages in 925 BC with 15 cities. Spoiler follows.

It was 4000BC and the nation of France stood at the dawn of its magnificence. Yet even in its infancy, the glorious path to dominance was clear. After a short journey south-west Paris was established in 3950BC. It was surrounded on all sides by nature's bounty - the vineyards that quenched the thirst of noble men, the cattle that filled the belly of a hungry France, and the surging river that ran with gold.

Paris sent forth its finest men to civilise the wild lands to the north, east, south and west. In these new towns were built the armies that would enforce the enlightened policy of our most exalted leader. But they were not savages, rather men trained in the art of war in the world's finest military schools.

In 3150BC, Orleans was built on the shores of a great lake. Then, in order that the arms of France should spread wider than the sky above, and faster than the howling wind, huge structures were built in Paris to store the nation's food.

In 3600BC we came across a strange people, who came from a barbaric place they named England. We were appalled by their ugly dentures, and confused by their desire to wait in lines and talk of the weather. Our leader swore a silent oath that the scab of England should be removed from the earth. For now, we would attempt to civilise them by teaching them masonry in exchange for pottery and 10 pieces of gold.

The first priority of the nation's greatest thinkers was to bend the powers of numbers to their will. As masters of numbers they would build dread machines to reign terror on their enemy. For the words of that most educated of men, Robespierre, echoed in their ears: "Terror without virtue is disastrous; virtue without terror is powerless". It was not until 2150BC that the secrets of mathematics were prised from their hiding place by the iron will of French intellect. However the supremacy of French thought was never in doubt, since the heathen English knew nothing of primes, and were terrified by the infinite. As an act of charity the French taught them these secrets for which the English gratefully explained bronze working, their warrior code and gave France two of their gold pieces.

In 2310BC the might of France extended further still with the settlement of Lyons. The location of the city (West of Paris) was met with some puzzlement. This puzzlement was met with stern looks and instruments of torture. Never again would the French people question the authority of its leadership.

The empire flourished as Rheims was built in 1950BC, and Tours quickly followed in 1750BC. Rheims was placed on the coast such that French influence might span the oceans, while Tours was built where cattle roamed to feed a burgeoning nation.

In 1725BC contact was established with the Egyptians. They tired the French with their talk, so they gave them maths for ironworking and four gold in the hope that their harsh language should offend French ears no longer.

In 1675BC the French leader's great wisdom was finally confirmed, for the English demanded three gold in tribute. They had eventually been exposed as the evil brutes our leader had long suspected them to be. Many expected that the French would purge the English from existence, but the miltary, although well trained, was small. And the English had bred like the dogs they were, such that their army was numerous. It is oft' said among those schooled in these matters that one Frenchman is worth four-score English. True though this may be, the French elite were wise enough to know that the path to power does not always follow the sword. Tribute was paid, and a solemn vow remembered. ELizabeth was told to spend her gold well, for when the French decide to claim it back much interest would be due (and the French had the log tables to prove it).

Expansion continued for in 1600BC Marseilles was built on the coast, north east of the vineyards. And in 1525BC Chatres was established north of Paris next to the nation's second river.

By 1175BC French minds had devised a whole new system to manage the exchange of goods and services. They called it currency, and it would allow this wealthy nation to reach its full potential. Again the French scholars were far advanced of their pitiful rivals and they spread their new system to all. So awed by this means of exchange were the Scandanavians that they offered all they had to learn its subleties - the wheel, cerimonial burial, writing and twenty three gold pieces. Egypt bestowed upon France myticism, philosophy, horseback riding and four gold because camels do not make a good medium of exchange, for they are sullen creatures that can spoil a good barter with an ill-judged spit in your business partner's eye. Greece had only map-making to offer plus forty seven gold, but France, in her infinite charity, gave them currency. The English would only give code of laws and twelve gold, refusing to teach France construction for fear that they might actually build something more beautiful than they.

1125BC saw the erection of Avignon on the northern coast. And Bescancson was built further north up the coast in 1000BC. Thus ended the great period of expansion of the French empire. Scholars have later called this childhood of France, the Quick Start Challenge.

The only blemish on this fruitful period for the French was the lack of access to iron. Without this precious metal they could not develop the army of swords and knights they so desired. But, although France was not blessed with mineral wealth, it was blessed with a strong, wise and determined leader. The French scholars were tasked with bringing their nation's enemies to their knees with advanced theories, and unparalled technology.

The annals of history have now become clogged with revisionist propoganda on the errors of the French leadership during this period. They claim that the inability of Paris to send forth its settlers more regularly was due to poor planning, and that a nation with just one worker could never flourish. These disrespectful documents make the incredible claim that the French were afraid to fight the English, and would suffer because of it. However these worthless papers were not written by the enligthened French and can therefore be ingnored. For history is written by the winners, and only lies spring forth from the lips of losers.

In a rare find historians have discovered plans, made by the French, for the years following 1000BC. In it the French explain how they plan to settle the lands to the East, to tame the horses south-east of Marseilles and to launch a short term military campaign against the English to capture the settlers invading their territory and the town of Nottingham. These fascinating documents even show the mercy of the French for they planned to sue for peace once these objectives were achieved.

QSC Stats

9 towns, 30 popn
72g @ -5gpt
All AA techs except Literature, Construction, Republic, Monotheism & Polytheism
7 turns till literature
13 archers, 3 warriors, 5 catapults, 1 worker
One tech behind (everyone else has construciton)

Paris 3950BC (come visit the vineyards)
Orleans 3150BC (splish, splash! Come on in the water's lovely)
Lyons 2310Bc (take a hike through the beautiful forests)
Rheims 1950Bc
Tours 1750Bc
Marseilles 1600BC
Chatres 1525BC
Avignon 1125BC
Besancon 1000BC

[Does anyone have a rule of thumb to calculate how much pain you need to do to an enemy civ before you can sue for peace? E.g. if kill x units, raze y towns and wait z turns can sue for peace.]

I am 3-4 techs out of the MA, but everyone else is in them. Met England early, before i learnt Pottery but only 2 turns left. Wasnt worth it. Built a settler in Paris, then a granny for a 4-turner. Am building an army to attack my buddy Liz, mostly horses. I hate not having iron though...:( Mr. Green learnt Lit very early, preventing a monopoly. I doubt i will win, but if i kill a Deity AI ill be happy.

I think what helped me was the crippling of England early game, though once I saw the world map, I was freaked out!:eek: England had way more cities than expected, I should have checked England in the F4 Screen.:scan:

I only had 2-3 warriors when i saw an english warrior-settler, so an attack was definately not on the cards then :lol:

I made some settlers before Granary cause granary would have slowed my down too much. I had about 4-5 warriors and 2 towns when I attacked a warrior-settler pair.:cool:

Do I have to post a updated world map?

[ptw] Predator

Synopsis: great leader luck in a game that didn't need it.

I planted Paris on the spot and naturally made a settler factory. I soon learned that we were badly hemmed in the English so I planned the game around early war. Six cities were built at RCP 3 around the capital with a partial ring at RCP six. They all went on barracks duty, followed by horses.

In 1375 BC I got a monopoly on Currency and traded it around for tech parity and all the money (over 500g in the kitty at that point). I had about 10 horsies at that point. I wuold have liked to wait about one turn more for war but Lizzie had about seven troops in my territory so I demanded she leave and she declared war.

In 1150 BC I got a leader and used it to used rush the Great Library. I was just twelve turns from finishing Republic but stopped research anyway. Two turns later, the GL delivered Monarchy, Construction and Engineering and I entered the ME.

In 1050 BC London fell, and with it the Pyramids. The following year Toko declared war and I got a second leader who was used to rush the FP in London. That was around my 10th elite victory.

QSC stats:
855g 61gpt
19 cities (14 hand-built, 5 captured), pop 55
9 workers, 11 slaves, 1 settler
15 horsemen, 2 warriors, 2 galleys
all AA techs – Republic + Engineering
all contacts, all embassies and a world map
19 Granaries, 6 Barracks
Great Library, Pyramids, Forbidden Palace

COTM 55 Open Domination or Conquest.

4000BC Settled on the spot after worker moved to hill nw to discover 2 more BG and started to research Writing at 20% for 40 turns. Started on warrior
3750BC Worker complete irrigation and road to cow. Build War and Start War. War go south.
3650BC War find incense for settlment. Worker road wine.
3600BC Meet england and trade Masonary for Pot and 10g.
3550BC Worker complete road and start mine. Paril B>War S>Settler
3200BC Paris B>Settler, S>War. England build a city next to the Cow to SW. Settler heading to Claim incense.
3000BC Est. Orleans to claim Incense. S>War. Paris B>War, S>Grainary. War to south find Silk.
2950BC We can see Alexandria but no one to contact.
2900BC Meet Cleo and trade Alpha and Pot for CB, WC, BW and 10g.
2850BC Worker complete mining and Roading BG N of Paris and move to chop a forest.
2590BC Paris B>Grain, S>War. There are 3 silks to south.
2430BC Paris Settler Factory is up and running. B>Settler, S>worker English and Egypt are building Pyramids and England is building Colossus.
2310BC Paris B>Worker, S>Settler. Worker to Road to Orleans.
2270BC Est Lyons to West of Paris.
2190BC England Gave us Marching Orders. IBT we learn Writing and start on Philo in 17 turns. I am quit sure we learned writing before any one else.
2150BC Paris B>Settler, S>War. Est. Embassies with Cleo (20 tuns for Pyramids) and Eliz (26 turns).
1990BC Traded writing around and ended up getting HBR, Myst, IW and contact with Japan. Japan know Greece but wont trade.
1870BC Paris B>Settler, S>Barracks
1750BC Tours is founded on Horse east of Paris.
1700BC Paris Changed to Settler
1675BC Paris B>Set, S> War. All other Cities will Build War and Barracks for Future Army.
1650BC We learn Philo but do not get the Sling. Lerning Math.
1625BC Paris B>War, S>Wor. We trade philo around to get all available techs and contacts. It is almost time to get the military going.
1575BC Establish Marseilles on the coast NW of Paris
1450BC We lost math race and buy from Japan and Start on Currency.
1375BC Est Chatres NE of Paris.
1150BC Egypt lands 2 War next to Tours. We tell Cleo to Leave and she DOW on us.
1125BC Archer and a horse take the two War out. Establish Besancon to NE of Chatres.
1050BC Egypt lands 2 War next to Chatres. Archer took out one. Pull back the Spear heading to Besancon. Est Rouen NE of London.
1000BC Last Egyption Warrior was distroyed by Horseman.

9 Cities
1 grainary
3 Barracks
1 Temple
7 Workers
10 reg War
2 reg and 9 vet Archers
5 reg and 2 vet Spears
1 Vet Horse
Missing CoL, Lit, Const, Poly, Monarchy and Republic. 3 turns to Curr. Hoping to get monopoly.

Hope we can fight on two fronts.

950 BC We learn Curr and trade around to get all but gov techs and Lit. Peace w/Egypt for nothing, so no need for two fronts. Enter Middle age. Start on Engineering. Greece has Feudalism.

We learn Philo but do not get the Sling. Lerning Math.There is no sling in vanilla.

@Abegweit. Thank you. Now I know I am not completely going crazy. Just partially know the game.;)

By the way, your QSC data is absolutely impressive. :thumbsup:
How did you manage to get that many town? Does RCP 3 mean you build cities on the 3rd tile from the capitol? CxxC?

By the way, your QSC data is absolutely impressive.Thank you. I believe it’s the best start I’ve ever had. Part of it is luck, of course. Getting the Pyramids and the two leaders was far from automatic. OTOH, it wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t played the game the way I did. It’s also silly, IMO, that the Pyramids is counted as a granary for each city, but I didn’t make up the rules; Cracker did.

How did you manage to get that many town?There’s no real magic about it. I simply set up a settler factory in the capital and started pumping out cities. It's very important to finish this as fast as possible. I forget when precisely I finished the factory, I believe 2950BC. In any case, Orleans was founded in 2710BC. Then one more city comes out every four turns. Next all new cities do nothing but build workers and military. With an industrious civ, you don’t need many of the former. In general I built military in my ring three cities and workers in ring six. Six inner ring cities = six barracks. Then, when you have enough military, strike! That’s it.


Does RCP 3 mean you build cities on the 3rd tile from the capitol? CxxC?Not quite. This refers to distance three from the capital. The game counts distance as 1.5 along a cardinal axis and 1 along a diagonal. Thus, on a diagonal, it’s CxxC and on a cardinal it is CxC. I’ve attached an image of my game for an illustration. The numbers are rounded down so if Marseilles had been built one to the north, it would also be at distance 3.

The main reason why this is important is because of a quirk in the Vanilla corruption model. All cities built at the same distance have the same corruption. Thus all six of my inner ring cities only have 10% corruption. Even the outer ring is quite decent, about 34% in Republic.

Note that I was lucky that two English cities, Coventry and Nottingham were built in my outer-ring. Hastings was built at distance 7, which is why I have it building a settler; it will have to be moved. The plan is to move it to the north-east and squeeze another city in between it and Nottingham.

One other hint: in vanilla trade for maps every turn. You will be astonished at the amount of money you make this way.

Edit: you can recognise the inner ring cities in the image easily enough. They're the ones training horsies :D


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Abg55.JPG

Open class, trying to win

I moved the Worker west and decided to settle in place. The Worker
roaded and then irrigated the Cattle tile, then moved on to a Bonus
Grassland which it roaded and mined, then to a forest which was cut
towards the Granary in Paris only to reveal another Bonus Grassland
which was also roaded and mined. At this time the Granary was finished
-- a Warrior and one turn of Wealth had preceeded it -- and next a
Worker was produced which irrigated and then roaded one of the Wine
tiles. The first Worker roaded and irrigated a Plains tile with which
the Four-Turn Settler Factory was completed.

4000 BC 00 Found Paris
2800 BC 24 Connect Wines
2750 BC 25 Four-turn Factory Operational
2710 BC 26 Found Orleans
2670 BC 27 Four-turn Factory Complete
2550 BC 30 Found Lyons
2390 BC 34 Found Rheims
2190 BC 39 Found Tours
2030 BC 43 Found Marseilles
1790 BC 49 Found Chartres Equality with England
1675 BC 53 Connect Horses
1575 BC 57 Found Besancon Equality with Egypt
1500 BC 60 Found Rouen
1450 BC 62 Connect Incense
1400 BC 64 Found Grenoble London finishes the Pyramids
1275 BC 69 Found Dijon
1225 BC 71 Found Amiens
1175 BC 73 Capture Nottingham

I decided to go for monopolies and started researching Mathematics at
100%. In retrospect a bit optimistic, I shaved off only three turns
compared to minimum research. On average I managed to keep research at
79.7% during this time. Luckily I could trade for Pottery in time,
meeting England in 3500 BC. After Mathematics I went for Currency on
minimum, which turned out to be 8.75%: I preferred to lose some coins
and win population growth to assigning a Scientist. In 1450 BC I had a
Scientist in Orleans and between 1175 BC and 1050 BC I had one in
Paris.

Judging from the success of Abegweit I started my war on England too
late, but still managed to grab one city before 1000 BC. I was also
slow in learning Horseback Riding. It simply wasn't available. The
disadvantage of the late attack would present itself in 1025 BC when the
Great Wall was completed in London! That's a hard nut to crack without
Iron.

3500 BC 10 Meet England
3500 BC 10 Learn Pottery
3400 BC 12 Meet Egypt
3400 BC 12 Learn Ceremonial Burial
3400 BC 12 Learn Bronze Working
2900 BC 22 Learn Warrior Code
2270 BC 37 Learn The Wheel
2270 BC 37 Learn Mysticism
2270 BC 37 Discover Mathematics
2190 BC 39 Learn Iron Working
1525 BC 59 Learn Writing England has Map Making
1275 BC 69 Learn Map Making
1200 BC 72 Learn Philosophy
1200 BC 72 Embassy England Great Wall in only 7 turns!
1200 BC 72 Embassy Egypt Great Wall in 19 turns
1200 BC 72 War England We declare and attack with 5 Archers, 2 Spearmen and 1 Catapult. Four Slaves captured.
1150 BC 74 Learn Horseback Riding
1100 BC 76 Meet Scandinavia
1100 BC 76 Meet Japan
1100 BC 76 Meet Greece
1100 BC 76 Learn Code of Laws
1075 BC 77 Discover Currency
1075 BC 77 Learn Construction
1050 BC 78 Peace England IBT
1050 BC 78 War England IBT
1025 BC 79 War Egypt Alliance with England
0925 BC 83 Learn Polytheism from the Japanese
0925 BC 83 Enter Middle Ages

The Quick Start Challenge statistics were the following:

14 Cities
47 Citizens
2 Luxuries
1 Resource
5 Contacts
9 Workers
5 Slaves
2 Catapults
14 Warriors
7 Archers
2 Horsemen
3 Spearmen
2 Galleys

Lacking Polytheism and the three optionals in the Ancient Age. Having
pretty much a World Map.

And that completes the voting of the Più Freddoze jury.

Judging from the success of Abegweit I started my war on England too late, but still managed to grab one city before 1000 BC. I was also
slow in learning Horseback Riding. It simply wasn't available. The disadvantage of the late attack would present itself in 1025 when the Great Wall was completed in London! That's a hard nut to crack without Iron.Yeah. The luck of the draw. I got Pyramids. You got the Wall. :sad:

Don't be afraid of tackling London with 2-attack units though. They certainly can do the job. 7 archers and 2 horses should be enough. According to Offa's calc, they will win 98% of the time against 2 defenders and 88% against three. I don't believe that there's more than that in London. The alternative to this is to try something off-island. You certainly can't plod through each city one at a time.

The luck of the draw. I got Pyramids. You got the Wall.

I did get the Pyramids in London, too, and then the Great Wall! But I didn't get to trade for Horseback Riding in time. Had I established the Embassy earlier and seen what was going on I might have had a chance to circumvent Elisabeth's devlish plans. Or simply react faster on the Pyramids. But I wasn't confident enough to attack on Deity at that time. What if she had built troops instead of another Great Wonder?

Don't be afraid of tackling London with 2-attack units though. They certainly can do the job. 7 archers and 2 horses should be enough. According to Offa's calc, they will win 98% of the time against 2 defenders and 88% against three. I don't believe that there's more than that in London.

I'm not so sure. Did you consider that London is built on a Hill? I used the combat calculator Windows application from some thread here and came to rather sad figures.

No. I didn't realise that it was on a hill. Even so, check out Offa's calc. It's still gives good figures.

Open - trying to win
Well first of all - fantastic job Abegweit. That is a fantastic first spoiler and good masterclass in the benefits of taking control of a deity map. My game hasn't gone as well.

Again I didn't take any notes or make any saves as I played through the first part of the game so I can't do much of a spoiler.

Early plays
My start was much the same as Piu's although I actually got my 4 turn settler factory up even earlier with my second town being settled in 2630bc (or so Mapstat viewer informs me). I ran the settler factory throughout the QSC period ending it with 16 towns (15 settled and 1 flip to me! - had to remove the attached screenshot showing this as it included the minimap showing the other continent :( ).

I settled a ring at 4, then semi rings at 6 and 9. I also settled 3 towns at the south of the Island giving me the iron, horses and furs down there. Unfortunately it took me far to long to connect these.

Research goes ok
Research wise I did my usual Deity route of Maths, currency (both as monopolies) then poly to trade for COL and then republic. Forget exactly when I achieved this but think it was pretty quick overall.

Military
Wars were a disaster. First of all I was too slow. When I did start my first war it was with a primary goal of getting great leaders (i.e. to rush FP's, Pyramids e.t.c.) with capturing English cities being only a secondary objective. Unfortunately, as a result of general incompetence the plan completely failed. I didn't get a leader and eventually got bored and decided to kill the English anyway.

Due to further incompetence that didn't go too well either but I am moving into second spoiler territory.

Future plans
Being Deity and having good land I have decided I will go for a cavalry based domination. The land in the core is insanely powerful and my core is nicely developed so i think powering up to MT ahead of the AI ought to be quite easy. Then a combination of the golden age, min research, tech trick and the disconnect/reconnect strat ought to give me easily enough cavs to overrun the alpha continent and power to a moderately early dom. Lets see how it goes.

Every thing was progressing nicely till about 600 bc
I had captured three british city's while only losing two units
however then things went bad a lone warrior managed to kill my spearman and capture one of my city's and london culture flipped back
ok i thought just a stroke of bad luck i recaptured my city and a few turns later i recaptured london but now it has culture flipped again :confused:
I have lost more units from culture flipping than from real combat

do you also have problems with culture flipping?

do you also have problems with culture flipping?In high-risk cities, its often better to leave zero units in them. In the early game, if it flips, the defender will probably be a spearman - so leave a unit or two next to the (empty) city that is capable of taking-out a spearman (vet or elite horseman / swordsman). Once you've completely eliminated a civ, then the flip chance reduces to zero.

You can keep an eye on the culture flip chance using CivAssist (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118540) or the CrpSuite (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902).

@Abegweit
Thank you for the class. I did a practice run and found out all the mistakes I did with the Settler Factory and I see what you are talking about the corruption at RCP3. Too late for this game but will be using this from now on. Also I tried tech trading and learned it is possible to be just behind the Civ's.

@ainwood
I think I am going to need to use your advise to Kwibus to deal with massive Egyption culture in this game. Thanks. :)

Thanks for the tip i'll try next week when i can play again

My AA was pretty similar to Abegweit's, but he executed it better than me :drool: In particular, I wasn't brave enough to attack with only 12 horsies: I waited until I was rated 'strong' with about 20 of them.

As soon as my exploring warrior stumbled upon London, which was so close to our capitol, the strategy was a no-brainer to me. I settled RCP3 and 6, each city building a warrior, then a worker and then barracks while the capitol kept pumping settlers until the local area was filled. I was lucky to meet another civ pretty quickly, which the english took quite a while to meet. As a result, my math and currency monopolies worked out very well.

I had traded masonry for pottery to the english, even though I had only a few turns left on max research. I did not consider it at the time, but this is why the English built the Pyramids for me in the end :D

The war against England went smoothly and the continent was mine, except for a few guests from other parts of the world. I got a GL, which I also used for the FP in London, and another one cleaning up the last english cities off the continent, which I am saving.

I entered the MA 590 BC as a republic with 21 cities, pop 70, controlling the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse. I knew the entire world, and was already ahead in tech.

Since I thought we would be alone on our landmass, I settled Paris 1 SW to get better terrain for the first ring. In hindsight, founding on the spot would have been stronger with the English beeing so close to us.
Paris then built Settler (3350), Worker (3150), Granary (2510) and 4-turn settlers starting in 2510. New towns were placed at RCP 3 and 6 (which seems to be quite popular in this game) and started to train MP-Warriors, then Barracks and units with occasional workers or settlers to control size.
My research-path was apparently a bit different. Like most others I started with Pottery but traded it for Masonry when I met the English to help with attitude and enable them to build the Pyramids. Luckily they did so in 1500, making another civ cascade to the completion of the Oracle and the Colossus on the next turn. After that I went for the Republic straight away, ignoring Maths. I am not sure whether this way was profitable, but it took me to the MA in 730, beeing in Republic since 750 after 6 turns of anarchy, which seems to be okay.
So far I have only had a minor war with the English, starting in 1275. I used Archers to make space for my ring cities and somewhat reduce the cultural pressure. Unfortunately I did not take London yet and made peace in 900, gaining a tech and an island town from it. Right now, London is building the Great Library, so maybe I´ll wait some more before I strike again...

QSC-stats:
13 towns with 34 citizens, 1 Granary and 5 Barracks
2 Settlers, 11 Workers, 5 Slaves, 6 Warriors, 6 Archers, 2 Spearmen, 7 Horsemen and 1 Galley
missing the AA-techs Construction, Maths, Currency, Polytheism, Monarchy and Republic, which is due in 4 turns

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/1000bc1.JPG

Open class, going for conquest (which I’m terrible at, but I have to keep trying).

Opening moves - worker W to road and irrigate the cow, settler SW to found Paris. Research set to Pottery at maximum. Build warrior, settler, granary, then 4 turn settlers.

I had picked out nice town locations at RCP 4, but Nottingham was founded near my proposed second town site, so there was no RCP 4 site that would get me the cow to the W-SW without fighting England culturally (a clearly hopeless battle) so I changed RCP 3 to get the cow. RCP 3 sites generally built barracks; RCP 6 started catapults, but it started looking like they wouldn’t be necessary so those towns changed to barracks (or boats) eventually.

In my game England built the Colossus – maybe not as bad as the Great Wall, but it means they had their Golden Age.:sad:

In 1250 BC, with an English settler pair in my territory, I goad Liz into declaring for some quick war happiness and a couple slaves. During the war I captured their incense town and raze and replace another town (it didn’t fit my RCP) before agreeing to peace in 1025 BC for another town and some loose change. Liz continued to try to send settler pairs through my territory so I could get Liz to break our peace anytime I wanted instead of having to wait the 20 turns.

QSC Stats:

16 towns
40 citizens
1 settler
15 native workers
7 slaves
2 regular warriors
6 veteran archers
2 elite archers
1 veteran spearman
2 veteran horsemen
2 catapults
1 regular galley

The tech pace seemed very slow. I went for monopoly techs (Mathematics, Literature, Currency, Polytheism – and I had to do Horseback Riding myself), then periodically had to turn research off to wait for the AI because I didn’t want to duplicate their research.

In 850 BC, I completed Polytheism and entered the Middle Ages by myself with monopolies on Literature and Polytheism waiting for someone to research Republic for me.

England built the Great Wall in my game..... 10 turns before my planned attack. So i already had a large army of catapults... :mad:

[ptw] predator

I settled sw. Build 2 warriors, then granary (bought pottery from England).
Found England and Egypt with my first warrior.
England researched writing early and my contact was sold to Japan and Greece by 2390 BC. Nice trading opportunities :D.

Settler factory was running nicely and I had 5 cities, when Liz attacked in 2110BC.
Because of a typical tactical AI masterpiece (Liz came with only two reg warriors first and attacked over the river) :D, I didn't lose any cities and had also a nice kill ratio.
But Paris was pillaged quite a bit and pop-rushed spears are also not good for development.

Made peace in 1750BC and even got a village in the treaty.

1550BC Egypt landed some warriors next to this village. I had quite some gpt payments towards them. Boot order and she declared.
I couldn't defend this village so I gifted it to the Vikings (it was anyways not in the location I wanted a city) and allied them. Egypt razed it and I then picked off the warriors in the next few turns.

1350BC we get another phony war with Japan. Who needs luxes, when you have war happiness from two sides :cool:.

All this lead to a lousy (for this power location) QSC with only 10 towns.

But science went fine :).
I only researched math @ min and literature @ max (tried a min run on poly, but that failed).
But I traded like crazy.
1100BC I bought republic and revolted for 5 turns anarchy.
1000BC I bought construction and entered MA with all techs except monarchy.

I'm building horses and wait for a good opportunity to trick Liz into declaring on me.

Bad development, but good science. Smells like a diplomatic victory. ;)

klarius, you have competition. How much serious is yet to be seen. I went out of AA in 925BC, still in despotism, with Republic unknown, but with the GLib in my hands thanks to a leader. Currently i'm still in the BC with a good number of MA techs already known. I'll post the AA spoiler this evening.

Conquest, PTW going for Domination

Since this was my first deity game, I decided to take it easy and go for conquest calls only. Probably didn't need it in this food rich start, but of course it helped a lot to speed up my settler factory.

I got so caught up in the smooth running of the game, that i forgot the turn log completely, so you have to take this from memory.

Met England farily soon, but not gainign any techs. Fortunately I saw a glimpse of an egyptian warrior from a hilltop, while england didn't forquite a while, so I was able to trade myself in to the lead by being tech broker between them. Started the first War with about 6 Hm, probably a bit premature. I took 2 English cities, but afterwards my armies were a bit gassed, so I took a 20 turns leave.
Unfortunately I only learned afterwards, that waiting the full time wasn't required, but when it was over, the english core fell in one sweet strike netting me the pyramids and the Great Lighthouse. After taking another peace, for new techs and 2 cities, I led two mostly phony wars with egypt and the vikings, clearing them from my continent.

I think I entered MA first, although the scientific Civs were not far behind.

Next steps will be the removal of the last English enclaves, together with the landing on the Alpha continent. Then some sweet ROP rapes, and easy Cav Victory by 1500 AD.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif
predator ptw - goal is diplo (hope to not mess up things with AS attitude, i have bad precedents)

Worker moves on the moo and spots a possible central location. Settler moves NW-W and founds Paris in 3900BC. Research is set to Writing at minimum. The initial build order is warrior x 3 -> settler -> warrior -> granary. The English are met very early and they start immediately to be troublesome. We beat them for 1 turn in founding city 2 on the coastal + river hill SE of Paris, and this victory turns out to be very important: borders are too near for the AS to found a city, so we're able to snatch a town right on the incense a bit later. An English pair shows up around 2000BC. Our military is simply too scarce to boot them out so we let them pass undisturbed. They build a city in the north-east tundra, in a place that prevents further expansion in that direction.

Cities are built at a mixed 4-4.5 ring, with the perfect ring placement being sacrificed in favour of better city locations. Techs are traded advantageously despite the English completed Writing in the same turns as us :mad: Egypt don't have it so we are able to complete the 1st tier and get also Iron Working.

The next pick is Mathematics, that we complete undisturbed, but before trading it we buy Map Making for gpt, poprush a galley then go discovering the Japanese that were already visible with their border, but failed to show up since then. A trade fest follows, and we end up with Mysticism, Wheel, Horse Riding, Philosophy, all contacts and a fairly comprehensive world map.

A few turns later another english pair shows up. In 1200BC the option to leave or declare is available and we lure them into declaring war. A bit of war happiness is welcome, and there are enough archers and catapults to dispose of the intruders. A pair of elite promotions are achieved - this turned out to be very important later.

Next research is Currency, with Code of Laws being bought in the meantime, but once again the monopoly tech project fails, with Egypt and Greece discovering it in the same turn as us :mad: :mad: and with the lone Japanese to have gone for Construction. No one has researched Republic so far and we decide to try for it at max spending.

Polytheism and Literature are bought from the Vikings, but Construction is still untradeable despite we can offer Japan 4 techs and 25 gpt. Meanwhile troops are amassed for an attack to the south-western english cities, where 3 more ring town could be built. A small stack is maintained in the southern incense city to control a wave of intruders, and an elite victory scored there in 975BC earns the 1st leader of the game. Research on Republic is scrapped and we rush immediately the Great Library in a border city. In 925BC Construction is learned that way and we're finally into the Middle Ages, with 9 cities, a settler ready to found the 10th, and an attack in English lands to be finally delivered next turn.

London has the Pyramids, and England is in control of 2 important luxuries i don't have, so the obvious goal is to claim the english territory, but i don't know if i'll build my 2nd core there, Japan could be a better option. We'll see in the future.

Tech log:

3900BC: Alphabet, Masonry (prerequisites);
3400BC: Pottery, Bronze (trade, England);
2030BC: Writing (self research); Iron Working, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial (trade, Egypt);
1500BC: Math (self), Map Making (trade, Egypt);
1450BC: Mysticism (trade, Japan); Wheel (trade, Greece); Horse Riding (trade, Egypt); Philosophy (trade, England);
1300BC: Code of Laws (trade, Greece);
1050BC: Currency (self);
1000BC: Polytheism, Literature (trade, Scandinavia);
-925BC: Construction (GLib);

Meetings:

3550BC: England;
2070BC: Egypt;
1450BC: Japan, Greece, Scandinavia;

Cities:

3900BC: Paris;
3050BC: Orleans;
2230BC: Lyons;
2030BC: Rheims;
1950BC: Tours;
1675BC: Marseilles;
1250BC: Chartres;
1050BC: Avignon;
1000BC: Besancon;

Our empire in 925BC:

..and we hope it will have 20K

Conquest class

After taking forever to win the GOTM with 100K, I finally got to play this one. I took the conquest bonus and am trying to go for 20K (!).

I settled on site and founded Orleans 3 NE (hill across river). I went for CB early and built Temple early and then Oracle (just barely, I think).

In 650 BC, I have Temple, Library, Coll., Oracle, and the GL. I'm doing a Palace pre-build for what I hope to be the Hanging Gardens.

Going for 20K hurt the RBX and Liz is crowding me, but I have horses and she doesn't so I might go for a bit of Jabbowock-chasing.

Because I can't win a fastest time award--no complaint, without the bonus settler I would not even have thought of trying this stunt-- I may start building units in Orleans as well. There's no doubt that 20K requires a strong cultural AA--Liz is treating me decently, I mean I'm bribing her properly, but I'm still going need to finish 20K before someone goes to space. Of course, that's a ways away.

Like What klarius Said
klarius said we should settle SW, so that's what I do. First build is an axe to have a look around, then it is on to the granary; although I start research on Pots, the axe meets the English almost immediately, and I trade Masonry for Pots and their cash. With the worker watering the moo, then the wines, then mining beegees, the granary completes in 3050bc, and my 4-turn factory is running. It operates between sizes 4 and 6, and is expected to produce 15 settlers during the QSC.

Ring Planning
I start settling my first ring at RCP3. The second ring will be RCP6. Furthermore, my FP is going to go into the powerful NW town, Orleans, built among the beegees of the northern river. So the towns around Orleans are also arranged at RCP3, to leave it with good rings once I jump the palace out of Paris. With their predator-fast start, the English have taken the capital-RCP6 site by the incense, and are obstructing a good FP-RCP3 site west of Orleans, but these places will come back to me in time.

A Trader's Research Path
I am trying to get to the medieval quickly, so after ditching my research on Pots, I head for Maths. This comes through in 2270bc, and is traded for War Code and Bronze. England also has Ironwork, so I expect they are working on something like Writing. I go straight on up the tree to Currency. It may be expensive, but my empire is growing rapidly, so I think I'll get it in good time. By 1870bc, Liz has Writing, and I can see that she knows another nation, although I have nothing to buy the contact with.

Some Bad Tech Choices
Of course, this being a high level game, the AI will trade my contact around anyway; Liz sells out in 1550bc, which is handy for 1525bc, when my research on Currency finishes. I trade for Writing, Ironwork and Mysticism, while managing to hold Currency back from the off-continent civ. Next turn they get Polytheism, but sell it to the English for Currency. If only they had taken Mapping from the English, I could have had that too. Never mind. I set research to Laws, which was a strangely weak choice. I can't think why I didn't go straight for Literature; England gets Laws one turn before me.

Some Good Tech Luck
I finish my own work on Laws in 1325bc, trade it for Polytheism, and start Literature. I still don't have Mapping, so cannot get out and meet anyone else, even though I can see new borders over the sea. Liz is not so unfortunate; she has two more contacts by 1275bc. Assisted by my completion of Literature in 1125bc, the AI have a big trading round which leaves some of them in the medieval, and sees my contact details go further around the world. A couple of turns of tech dealing later, I find myself in the medieval also. The date is 1050bc. This is the first time I was ever medieval during the QSC :bounce:.

QSC Stats
14 towns with 43 citizens and 133 tiles.
87 food in the bin, 166 shields in the box, 116g in the treasury.
1 granary, 1 FP, 3 temples, 4 barracks.
2 settlers, 9 workers, 5 axes (reg), 7 archers (vet), 6 horses (vet).
All ancient techs except Republic and Monarchy, 2 beakers towards Engineering.
5 contacts, no embassies, up-to-date w map.

@PaperBeetle: Why do you focus on rings round the FP? The rank corruption for a town that is nearer to the FP than it is to the Palace is only related to how many towns are nearer to the Palace than it is to the FP. So rings are not relevant round the FP - you need 'disks'.

Well, mainly becasue I just like rings :).
It's true that in general these towns don't need to be so neatly arranged, although in this case the FP site is so great that it doesn't deserve to be crowded by RCP2s... I could have allowed towns at RCP4 I suppose, but I don't tend to build that loosely early in the game.

Actually, RCP does have a purpose around the FP. Let's say you have your palace set up RCP 4 and 7. Then it makes a lot of sense to build RCP3 around your FP because all cities will be closer to it than any is to the Palace. The second ring around the FP should in a band at distance 4-6.

Actually, RCP does have a purpose around the FP. Let's say you have your palace set up RCP 4 and 7. Then it makes a lot of sense to build RCP3 around your FP because all cities will be closer to it than any is to the Palace. The second ring around the FP should in a band at distance 4-6.
The most frequent situation is a palace jump to an AI capital. The AI tends to build its first ring at radius 5.x, and it's often worth while to develop a ring at that radius. Then all towns at radius 5.x, 4.x or 3.x from your FP get the same rank as the new Palace's first ring. Their rank is driven by the number of towns *closer* to the Palace. The second band would be at 5.x and greater.

In the situation you describe, with a palace first ring at radius 4.x, the FP's rank 1 towns can be at radius 3.x or 4.x, so a fixed radius first ring is still not necessary. The second band would be at 5.x and greater, not 4.x.

In the situation you describe, with a palace first ring at radius 4.x, the FP's rank 1 towns can be at radius 3.x or 4.x, so a fixed radius first ring is still not necessary. The second band would be at 5.x and greater, not 4.x.I thought that the rule was that a city had to be "closer" to the FP than another city is to the Palace. This is good info. Thanks

Your thoughts are as valid as mine ... if not more so :)

PS My reasoning is that rank corruption is determined by the number of cities *closer* to the palace, as demonstrated by RCP. The rank corruption bug is that the city's distance is its distance to the closer of Palace and FP, but the count of *closer* cities uses only the distance from the Palace.

Apparently i'm the only one who sought a central placement for Paris and built the core cities at rcp 4-4.5 instead of 3. Such a strategy would be a sure loser in a war game, but in a game set to be scientific from the very start it's not said. I paid my choice with less cities at the QSC mark and with an imperfect ring until war, but the core cities are less corrupted from the start and have room to grow until size 12. We'll see soon if this different strategy will earn something or not.

Conquest, trying for 20K

As might have been predicted...Orleans was a wonderful city. We had resources coming in from our cities in other continents. BUt we didn't have either the nerve to smack England when had a slim chance nor did we have enogh strength to fight the inevitable attacks.

Retirement at 1000 AD

to conclude the musical theme...

Oh Civvers, tell your children not to do as I have done
An' spend 11 hours of misery
In pursuit of 20K

...built the core cities at rcp 4-4.5 instead of 3....in a game set to be scientific from the very start...@tR1cKy: Are you going for one of the Modern Era endgames? I'm interested to learn what this experience shows...

@tR1cKy: Are you going for one of the Modern Era endgames? I'm interested to learn what this experience shows...
Yes :D
I'm going for a diplo victory. I'm in the late industrials now. Projected victory time is 1020-1030AD.