0.11b

Download here: FfH2011b.exe (http://kael.civfanatics.net/files/FfH2011b.exe) (3 Meg) (the fix list (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171661))

Warning: This is not the full mod, only the patch. The full mod can be downloaded from here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398


Fixes:

1. The Great Commander can now build Command Posts (reported by Teg Navanis).
2. The Conjure spells (Air, Earth and Fire) now work correctly (reported by pa12ick).
3. Dwarven Hammerfists don't take infinite turn to improve a tile (reported by Samuelson).
4. Golden Wood, Shadowed Vale and Hallfs of Granite now correctly apply their trade route modifiers (reported by Black Whole).
5. Editor output changed to include the whole path (reported by ma.KaBre).
6. Fixed Ring of Flames.
7. Fixed the CTD crash caused by Infernal Grimoire (reported by thearkane).
8. Battlemaster Train ability fixed so it upgrades to macemen instead of Fire Elementals (reported by Brightlance).
9. Purge the Unfaithful works now (reported by Tsu Chi).
10. Scorch spell doesn't error when cast on an unowned tile (reported by Teg Navanis).
11. Feed Vampire ability rewritten to allow any living unit to be selected.
12. CTD caused by a barbarian unit casting Escape fixed (reported by Sisonpyh).


Additions:

1. Added the Doviello War Elephant unit (skin and model by White Rabbit).


Balance changes:

1. Elven adept reduced from 3 to 2 strength (recommended by Frozen-Vomit).
2. God-King civic changed to +50% commerce and hammers in the capital instead of +50% commerce and culture (recommended by Black Whole).


Cosmetic changes:

None


Before posting issues in this thread please check to make sure they haven't already been checked in and fixed: Changelog for the next version (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171497)

Is patch a and b needed or is patch b sufficent? Yes i have not played this new Version yet.. Was busy with the dragon :D.

Is patch a and b needed or is patch b sufficent? Yes i have not played this new Version yet.. Was busy with the dragon :D.

B is a cumulative patch so A's not needed.

I saw that dragon, he looked amazing, and I have all 3 dragons working in the game with the placeholder art you linked (i removed them from b since they werent the final art).

Forgot to get a screenshot, but I had a floating health bar displayed earlier (I'll upload the autosave, you should be able to find it in the East). I suspect that it might be due to an enemy stealth unit in the tile.

The AI doesn't recognise that summoned units which will disappear after its turn are irrelevant - I had a fireball at sea run out of movement, and an enemy privateer moved from the whaling boats it was defending to attack the fireball, while it had been sensibly ignoring my privateer next to it for some time - this allowed me to easily kill the privateer and would be very exploitable.
Oh, the fireball still plays its explosion graphic in the tile a unit moved from to attack it, too.

Thanks for putting the flags back to normal!

The Agricultural civic (labor, is it?) is not giving me the +1 health. I changed between the basic civic and Agricultural a few times and couldnt get the health bonus.

i'm in the midle of a 201a game so i think i'll finsih that and then install this.

Edit: now that i've looked at the fix list i've changed my mind.

Might have something to do with pangea maps, but this is the second one I created that had no reagents anywhere. This time a huge pangea map.

The "You´re evil" modifiers are supossed to be -6 ? I think thats a little too high o_0

And I dont know if its just me, but Cult of the Dragon seems to ALWAYS be founded in the second city I create...

seem to be having some problems with some of the images, but I haven't heard anyone else mention it, so I don't know if it is just me or what...

127492

And as you can see, the flags don't look right either.

just more of the same

127493
127494

Should adepts that are not created by an arcane leader be getting combat 1 to start? Mine always do regardless of leader, and seem to gain experience at the same speed as arcane leaders.

Probaby not really a bug, per se, but fireballs can collect goody huts. I'm sure it's been around for a while, but now that arcane barges can easily get to unexplore lands, it's a bit more exploitable.

I realize this is purely cosmetic, but the tech description for Calendar has the "Can build a plantation" line twice.

Played as Khazad (Kandros Fir), founded Runes, then Order (switched both times). When I switched to Order, every time I sent an Acolyte to a city to spread the religion, I got a Crusader. Every time. That seemed excessive. Is that intentional?

Couldn't figure out who that Civ's Unique Individual Unit (UIU) is. I thought it should be Maros, but after getting the Tech that lists him (I don't remember which one, the one right after Iron Working) I couldn't build him. I built every other building necessary and researched every tech that has a UIU attached, but could never find one. Could you please list which one goes with which Civ in the Civopedia or something? And I guess it's a bug that the Khazad didn't have a UIU.

I moved my units to every type of terrain I could find, friendly, nuetral, enemy, etc. and couldn't get the "Regenerate" spell to come on. It looks like that one's broken.

I saw the Adventurer unit listed in the Civopedia. Great idea. Never saw one appear in the game though. Is it turned off right now?

Skeletons could have "Loyalty" cast on them, but not "Enchanted Weapons". That seems backwards.

Mages still have access to Body & Life III, yet there's nothing there for them.

Had difficulty getting spells like Wither and Rust to work on enemy units. Sometimes the "Target Screen" wouldn't even come up at all, and sometimes when it did, it did nothing. Didn't even say "you failed..." Also, Ring of Flames did the same thing. Usually nothing. About 25% of the time it injured someone. Is this intentional?

I could build Inquisition Hall while I was building the other, competing "Special Religion Building". Also, Why would I build Inq Hall? It does nothing as far as I can see. It just says +10% maint. Is something missing?


Still, I think you're on the right track. Great job!:goodjob:

Also, it seems like the AI doesn't know what to do with the Mana. I was on turn 330, in a Normal speed game, and just about every Mana I saw when spying on the AI civs had a Farm or Hamlet on it instead of the Node. The AI's Conjurors and Adepts were very weak, had mostly combat promotions, not spellcasting ones.:lol:

. . . because there aren't any Inquisitors.

I was playing Malakim in a 0.11a game, with the Order as my religion, got to the point where I got the techs for Inquistors, and found that I couldn't build any anywhere, even though the Pedia text for the Inquisition Hall says that it gives +4xp to any inquisitors built in its city.

I was able to promote a Confessor to Inquistor, but I couldn't conduct any inquisitions. And, when I built an Inquisition Hall in a city I'd conquered from the Infernals, who were Runes, the Hall destroyed my Order Temple and wiped out the Order from the city. :eek: :mad:

Also, Consecrate only appears as an option for Confessors in 0.11a in cities in revolt, and it doesn't seem to do anything.

Anyway, it doesn't look like those bugs were in the fix-list for 0.11b. I just downloaded 0.11b, and I'll see tomorrow if the same bug shows up.

just more of the same

127493
127494

You are playing the patch. You need to go to the main thread and download the mod. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398

Forgot to get a screenshot, but I had a floating health bar displayed earlier (I'll upload the autosave, you should be able to find it in the East). I suspect that it might be due to an enemy stealth unit in the tile.

The AI doesn't recognise that summoned units which will disappear after its turn are irrelevant - I had a fireball at sea run out of movement, and an enemy privateer moved from the whaling boats it was defending to attack the fireball, while it had been sensibly ignoring my privateer next to it for some time - this allowed me to easily kill the privateer and would be very exploitable.
Oh, the fireball still plays its explosion graphic in the tile a unit moved from to attack it, too.

The true problem here is that fireballs are sticking around past the end of your turn. Which has been a known problem forever because their is no function that runs at the end of players turns to clean them up. I will see if I can work something up. Since fireballs should never exist outside of their turn they should never defend and the explosion is in the right tile.

The Agricultural civic (labor, is it?) is not giving me the +1 health. I changed between the basic civic and Agricultural a few times and couldnt get the health bonus.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Might have something to do with pangea maps, but this is the second one I created that had no reagents anywhere. This time a huge pangea map.

Can you do a worldbuilder save (there is a seperate save function in the wordlbuilder menu) and attach that save file to this thread for me to look at.

The "You´re evil" modifiers are supossed to be -6 ? I think thats a little too high o_0

Yeap, the good guys are going to hate you. Best that you just wipe them out. :D

And I dont know if its just me, but Cult of the Dragon seems to ALWAYS be founded in the second city I create...

New religions go through a few things to decide where they will be founded. One of those qualifiers is that they tend not to be founded in capital cities, which is why they tend to favor the 2nd biggest city of empires.

Should adepts that are not created by an arcane leader be getting combat 1 to start? Mine always do regardless of leader, and seem to gain experience at the same speed as arcane leaders.

Arcane doesnt grant combat 1 anymore. They are getting Combat 1 because you are connected to an Ancient Temple.

Kael - your last post reminded me.

What exactly do these ancient temples do? I know if you search them you get some gold. I couldn't find any additional information...

Thanks!

Probaby not really a bug, per se, but fireballs can collect goody huts. I'm sure it's been around for a while, but now that arcane barges can easily get to unexplore lands, it's a bit more exploitable.

I added a request for a block for this to the low priority list.

Played as Khazad (Kandros Fir), founded Runes, then Order (switched both times). When I switched to Order, every time I sent an Acolyte to a city to spread the religion, I got a Crusader. Every time. That seemed excessive. Is that intentional?

There is a 75% change that crusaders are spawned unless that number has been modified with the editor.

Couldn't figure out who that Civ's Unique Individual Unit (UIU) is. I thought it should be Maros, but after getting the Tech that lists him (I don't remember which one, the one right after Iron Working) I couldn't build him. I built every other building necessary and researched every tech that has a UIU attached, but could never find one. Could you please list which one goes with which Civ in the Civopedia or something? And I guess it's a bug that the Khazad didn't have a UIU.

Yeah, all the heroes are broke in 11b. I'll fix in the next version.

I moved my units to every type of terrain I could find, friendly, neutral, enemy, etc. and couldn't get the "Regenerate" spell to come on. It looks like that one's broken.

You are right, Regeneration is broken. It will be fixed in the next version.

I saw the Adventurer unit listed in the Civopedia. Great idea. Never saw one appear in the game though. Is it turned off right now?

Adventurers only appear (they are Great People) for the Grigori.

Skeletons could have "Loyalty" cast on them, but not "Enchanted Weapons". That seems backwards.

You are right, loyalty has been fixed so it is now blocked for skeletons.

Mages still have access to Body & Life III, yet there's nothing there for them.

Yeah, there are quite a few empty slots yet. we are trying to get them filled.

Had difficulty getting spells like Wither and Rust to work on enemy units. Sometimes the "Target Screen" wouldn't even come up at all, and sometimes when it did, it did nothing. Didn't even say "you failed..." Also, Ring of Flames did the same thing. Usually nothing. About 25% of the time it injured someone. Is this intentional?

Ring of flames damage can be reduced to nothing if the opponent is tough enough (the damage is reduced based on the opponents level and icombat). I suspect that you couldnt get wither or rust to work because the tile didnt meet the requirements (the tile selection turns green on valid targets).

The requirements aren't very well documented right now, we will try to improve them.

I could build Inquisition Hall while I was building the other, competing "Special Religion Building". Also, Why would I build Inq Hall? It does nothing as far as I can see. It just says +10% maint. Is something missing?

From the buidlings thread:


+Inquisitional Hall (concept: strict)
Removes all religions but the Order from the city
Keeps religions from spreading to the city (not in yet)
Inquisitioners given +4 xp
Paladins created in this city gain the Command promotion
+10% Maintenance

Kael - your last post reminded me.

What exactly do these ancient temples do? I know if you search them you get some gold. I couldn't find any additional information...

Thanks!

If you are connected to them your casters start with the Combat I promotion.

Also, it seems like the AI doesn't know what to do with the Mana. I was on turn 330, in a Normal speed game, and just about every Mana I saw when spying on the AI civs had a Farm or Hamlet on it instead of the Node. The AI's Conjurors and Adepts were very weak, had mostly combat promotions, not spellcasting ones.:lol:

Yeah, we are going to try to keep this from happening.

. . . because there aren't any Inquisitors.

I was playing Malakim in a 0.11a game, with the Order as my religion, got to the point where I got the techs for Inquistors, and found that I couldn't build any anywhere, even though the Pedia text for the Inquisition Hall says that it gives +4xp to any inquisitors built in its city.

Inquisitors cant be built by anyone, they have to be upgraded into by a level 6 or higher unit.

I was able to promote a Confessor to Inquistor, but I couldn't conduct any inquisitions. And, when I built an Inquisition Hall in a city I'd conquered from the Infernals, who were Runes, the Hall destroyed my Order Temple and wiped out the Order from the city. :eek: :mad:

Your right, that hall is wiping the order instead of any religion except the order. That will be fixed in the next version.

Also, Consecrate only appears as an option for Confessors in 0.11a in cities in revolt, and it doesn't seem to do anything.

Check this with 0.11b Im made some non-specific fixes in 0.11b and I think the issue you were seeing may have been related to one.

Kael,

Thanks for the info on the Adventurers. If they replace Great People for the Grigori, I noticed that they can be upgraded to Adepts (I'm assuming w/Library), Scouts and Warriors, which gives them access to most of the upgrade tree. What about Prophets? Shouldn't they have the ability to upgrade to those, too?

As for the wither, etc. spell issue, I'll try and figure out if it's a bug the next time thru. I do remember having a few instances where the green square showed up, but I don't remember if that was after I had trouble or if it didn't work. I'll check.

The backstory for the Grigori if I remember correctly is that they don't like the way the gods are using humans to fight their wars and so upgrading along the disiple tree would be rather against their flavour.

The backstory for the Grigori if I remember correctly is that they don't like the way the gods are using humans to fight their wars and so upgrading along the disiple tree would be rather against their flavour.

Your right. The Grigori cant even build religious units so it wouldn't make sense for adventurers to be able to upgrade to them.

I just saw that. Stupid question then. It wouldn't make sense to have access to Religious units, would it?


Also, I've noticed that you keep ignoring my quesiton regarding some sort of way to figure out/know what each Civ's (as opposed to Religion's) Hero unit is. Why is that?:(

I haven't seen this question anywhere, but if it's been asked before I apologize. Why isn't there any Silver? It seems like a race w/access to it would have an advantage vs. Werewolves...:D

I just saw that. Stupid question then. It wouldn't make sense to have access to Religious units, would it?


Also, I've noticed that you keep ignoring my quesiton regarding some sort of way to figure out/know what each Civ's (as opposed to Religion's) Hero unit is. Why is that?:(

title of the thread: "Design: Heroes" http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160519

quite intuitive isn't it ?

title of the thread: "Design: Heroes" http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160519

quite intuitive isn't it ?

Yeah, I didn't see it before. Too damn many threads on the forum! Not enough time to read them all. :mad:

Applied the b patch:

1 Still getting only solid white flags for everbodies units, except barbs (white skull on black).

2 the dawn of whatever screen still doesn't have the name correct, it's got %s3 or something like that.

3 with slavery enabled I got an Orc slave which was just an orange circle on the screen & had no action buttons, could move it around but that was it.

Fader

Can you do a worldbuilder save (there is a seperate save function in the wordlbuilder menu) and attach that save file to this thread for me to look at.

Sorry Kael, I scattered reagents on the map myself shortly after noticing this. I'd create another, but I won't be at my computer again until thursday. The fact that it occured twice in a row should make it recreatable though.

I just noticed that the AI is giving Mana away for free in trades.

I clicked on "what do you want for this?" and the AI thought giving me Earth Mana for free was a good deal.

Something I posted already yesterday in the a thread...The Vamire Governor does not give what it says it will give.

You are playing the patch. You need to go to the main thread and download the mod. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398

I thought I had. :blush:

But I'm sure you're right. I'll clear and reinstall.

Thanks

3 with slavery enabled I got an Orc slave which was just an orange circle on the screen & had no action buttons, could move it around but that was it.

Fader

I got this too (playing .11a). The slave would sometimes display the picture and options of the last selected unit, and was a red blob.

- In my last game i had a barbarian skeleton leave the tundra/ice area and wander around in the more fertile region in the north - don't know if this is intended ( i don't think that hill giants leave the desert?)

- Kuriotates accused me of treating my people badly in the 3rd turn -> (played as hippus) but i'm pretty sure that i did nothing to them "yet"...

- In my last game i had a barbarian skeleton leave the tundra/ice area and wander around in the more fertile region in the north - don't know if this is intended ( i don't think that hill giants leave the desert?)

- Kuriotates accused me of treating my people badly in the 3rd turn -> (played as hippus) but i'm pretty sure that i did nothing to them "yet"...

Skeletons and hill giants only spawn in certain tiles, but they can go where they wish, as long as they don't enter any cultural borders.

And merely by using the default Compassion civic "Fend for Themselves" you are treating your people badly. I think it is going to be changed later on, so that the default civic will be "neutral" compassionwise.

Have the Gypsy wagons (and Loki) been looked at to make certain that they are doing the culture suck thing? In .11 and .11a they either weren't or it did not display in the city according to the Courtesan that was in the city.
~p

I am playing an "a" patch game, but I have not seen any note of fixes for these. I am playing as the Luchuirp, with Runes. Prince, Highlands, Raging Barbs (Insane!).

- I could not charm a Calabim Hunter (1 tile away, forested hill, standing with a blood-pet). No error reported, and it would let me try again and again.
- The Brewery text still says it grants XP for dwarves, but it does not (much to my disapointment on this Barb intense map).
- On a balance issue, I think that Adepts may be too inexpensive. It was much easier to build an Adept than a Dwarven Soldier in the beginning. But the Adepts are very useful. Maybe, the soldier should be lowered, but I think the Adept should cost more.

Excellent game though! I have had no game stopping bugs or CTD. Thanks again!

Also, Consecrate only appears as an option for Confessors in 0.11a in cities in revolt, and it doesn't seem to do anything.
Check this with 0.11b Im made some non-specific fixes in 0.11b and I think the issue you were seeing may have been related to one.

I am having this issue in 0.11b. Consecrate only available while standing in a city in revolt and nothing seems to happen.

Also I had an odd alignment issue. I was playing the Bannor, and at war with the Sheaim. In the middle of the war they switched to the Order (my religion). At which point not only did I get +1 relations from religion, but I got +2 from "you are good." That was a -2 with them before the religion switch. Is that supposed to happen? Maybe converting to Order makes your civ 'good'?

- The city "Car Karond" has negative culture... Sadly i don't know how this happend... (wasn't giving this city enought attention...) As i seem to be too stupid to make a screen-shot i have attached the savegame.

edit: just checked again: the two other cities to the right also have negative culture... could have something to do with consecrate - i think i used it in those

- Are evil leaders sopposed to be negative towards you when you use enthropy mana? Or are the Grigori neutral?

I was out of town all weekend so didn't have a chance to download until last night and then of course didnt go to bed until the sun came up.

A couple of things I noticed mostly cosmetic. I didn't get too far into the techs yet.

I played Malakim last night and produced an adept that eventually summoned an imp. The imp looked like it had a very large nose from the side 45 view. Not sure if thats intentional.

Orthus got caught on a piece of land surrounded by mountians and coastline. He was basicly stuck. It was a fractal map. Not sure if there is anything that can be done about something like that. Or if its just the randomness of the process of generateing him.

The second game I started I played the Ljosalfar and founded fellowship of Leaves, which allowed me to produce Elven archers in most of my cities. I noticed that building the Archery Range ended up being redundent. Maybe there could be a bonus to archery units built in cities with an archery range?

I really liked the improvement graphic over the mana nodes for the Ljosalfar. The Gazebo type building for the Malakim looked a little big however like it was slightly too big for the scale of the map. Really just an imho kinda thing.

Really not anything too significant but I will happily keep playing and see if I can't find something more pressing. Hope it helps.

playing as flauros of the calabim i wasnt able to build elber council because it doesnt show on my list. I dont find it writen anywhere that i shouldnt be able to build it

When you start a custom game on Classical Era, you get Awaken the Ancients no matter what civ you are, so you can found the Dragon Cult even not being Sheiam or the other one (Kuriotate or something, right ?)

Two more things i noticed:

- Brigadiers have no sound for retreating (don't know if there generally is no sound for retreating - but it would be cool to have one)

- No idea if this already came up: Purge remouved all order temples even though it is my state religion...

When you start a custom game on Classical Era, you get Awaken the Ancients no matter what civ you are, so you can found the Dragon Cult even not being Sheiam or the other one (Kuriotate or something, right ?)

It's been changed to a classical era tech for the next version.

If you're getting the orc slave graphical issue on .011b that's still a bug, it was meant to have been fixed.
Purge has also been fixed IIRC.

Well, even it being classical era, if the player chooses to start in the era after the classical one (dont remenber the name) he will still start whit Awaken the Ancients.... isnt there a way to block it ?

Oh, and a balance issue: the vampires are waaaaaaay too strong. Im a terrible player, i can´t win normaly even on noble (yea i suck =P) but i can destroy all other oponents whit just 1 well made vampire when i use the Calabim....

The veil as official religion gives you culture. This should be science.

Palisades are still in the build list when walls are available, even though they should be obsolete.

Rather a suggestion but a bug, but could you remove obsolete units from the build list as well? During the end game, it becomes a tad annoying to scroll through warriors and the like when macemen are available.

I have not yet played with the new update however, when I earlier played as the Malakim, my adepts would upgrade to normal mages and not Malakim mages. Also my treants would gain experience but not be able to promote. I dont know if thats intentional but if animals can gain experience i think a treant would be able to. Thanks! Love the mod!

When a Elohim city (or other Defender-trait leader city) is created and there is a unit on one of the squares that is going to become your cultural borders, the unit doesn´t gain the Homeland promotion, it has to leave borders and then enter it again to receive the promotion

I just saw that. Stupid question then. It wouldn't make sense to have access to Religious units, would it?


Also, I've noticed that you keep ignoring my quesiton regarding some sort of way to figure out/know what each Civ's (as opposed to Religion's) Hero unit is. Why is that?:(

I assure you Im not ignoring you, its been a very busy few days as you can imagine.

You could look in the heroes thread to see which hero belongs to which civ: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160519

Applied the b patch:

1 Still getting only solid white flags for everbodies units, except barbs (white skull on black).

2 the dawn of whatever screen still doesn't have the name correct, it's got %s3 or something like that.

3 with slavery enabled I got an Orc slave which was just an orange circle on the screen & had no action buttons, could move it around but that was it.

Fader

The white flags are broken for some people no matter which way I put them. I will put out a seperate patch for people having the white flag issue now.

The other 2 issues were fixed with the B patch, are you sure it was applied? Is anyone else having these issus with the b patch?

I have not yet played with the new update however, when I earlier played as the Malakim, my adepts would upgrade to normal mages and not Malakim mages. Also my treants would gain experience but not be able to promote. I dont know if thats intentional but if animals can gain experience i think a treant would be able to. Thanks! Love the mod!

Your right about the malakim mage, ill fix it.

Trees dont learn. :)

Palisades are still in the build list when walls are available, even though they should be obsolete.

Rather a suggestion but a bug, but could you remove obsolete units from the build list as well? During the end game, it becomes a tad annoying to scroll through warriors and the like when macemen are available.

Units only obsolete if you can build all their upgrades, its a vanilla civ thing. The warriors stay because you cant build the drown.

- In my last game i had a barbarian skeleton leave the tundra/ice area and wander around in the more fertile region in the north - don't know if this is intended ( i don't think that hill giants leave the desert?)

- Kuriotates accused me of treating my people badly in the 3rd turn -> (played as hippus) but i'm pretty sure that i did nothing to them "yet"...

Animals can go anywhere they want, they just start in those terrains.

And we will be changing around the civics so you dont have that attitiude hit at the begining.

Purge has also been fixed IIRC.

I'm pretty sure that i have patch .011b applied but purge still destroyed all stat religion order temples. Otherwise it was working fine...

I am playing an "a" patch game, but I have not seen any note of fixes for these. I am playing as the Luchuirp, with Runes. Prince, Highlands, Raging Barbs (Insane!).

- I could not charm a Calabim Hunter (1 tile away, forested hill, standing with a blood-pet). No error reported, and it would let me try again and again.
- The Brewery text still says it grants XP for dwarves, but it does not (much to my disapointment on this Barb intense map).
- On a balance issue, I think that Adepts may be too inexpensive. It was much easier to build an Adept than a Dwarven Soldier in the beginning. But the Adepts are very useful. Maybe, the soldier should be lowered, but I think the Adept should cost more.

Excellent game though! I have had no game stopping bugs or CTD. Thanks again!

I will fix the text on the Brewry. I agree about the adepts, Im going to raise their cost.

I'm pretty sure that i have patch .011b applied but purge still destroyed all stat religion order temples. Otherwise it was working fine...

Your right, it was still killign buildings, it will be fixed in the next patch.

I am having this issue in 0.11b. Consecrate only available while standing in a city in revolt and nothing seems to happen.

Also I had an odd alignment issue. I was playing the Bannor, and at war with the Sheaim. In the middle of the war they switched to the Order (my religion). At which point not only did I get +1 relations from religion, but I got +2 from "you are good." That was a -2 with them before the religion switch. Is that supposed to happen? Maybe converting to Order makes your civ 'good'?

Consecrate is broke. Yeah, switching religions can change your alignment.

I am having this issue in 0.11b. Consecrate only available while standing in a city in revolt and nothing seems to happen.

Also I had an odd alignment issue. I was playing the Bannor, and at war with the Sheaim. In the middle of the war they switched to the Order (my religion). At which point not only did I get +1 relations from religion, but I got +2 from "you are good." That was a -2 with them before the religion switch. Is that supposed to happen? Maybe converting to Order makes your civ 'good'?

Consecrate is broke. Yeah, switching religions can change your alignment.

playing as flauros of the calabim i wasnt able to build elber council because it doesnt show on my list. I dont find it writen anywhere that i shouldnt be able to build it

Yeah, for some reason elders dont seem to stick around in Calabim cities.

May i ask why deserts have no value at all. this seems pretty harsh and makes some maps pretty useless. Cant they be worth at least one shield. If not that make them effected with irragation for 2 food a desert may be useless but a irragated desert is a good food producer.

I assure you Im not ignoring you, its been a very busy few days as you can imagine.

You could look in the heroes thread to see which hero belongs to which civ: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160519

I know. Sorry. Someone else pointed it out to me too. I just hadn't noticed it. There's too much to read! :crazyeye:

Kael the agriculture civic is indeed broken as an earlier poster said.

I have the civic adopted with a spiritual civ and i dont get the health bonus when i mouse over the healthiness in the city screen. Heres a pic!

I cant prove i have the civic adopted in that screenshot but i swear i do. Plus the other guy said so anyway.

Hey Kael, first of all fantastic mod. i think this may be the coolest modding doen to any game ive ever seen. anyway, i have a few bugs to report.

first off, when spells are cast on a ship (esp. arcane barge, but not limited to just this) the summoned "thing" has 0 movement points. because it cant move AND it disappears the next turn (summoned promotion) it is useless. so basically, that has to be fixed.

second, what (if anything) does the pirates cove improvement do? i can't build one anyway, but since i cant tell, there seems to be little point to making one.

third, it seems that when a druid (and maybe elf, not sure about it though) creates a forest, it doesnt graphically change, though it does say "new forest" on the plot.

now for some quick suggestions.
1st. make the buccaneer (or whatever he is, the guy with boarding) the default swordsman gfx for now. it would be better than the pikeman i think.
2nd. (to do) maybe make a pedia entry for each kind of mana so we can see what they do. im sure you are planning on this, but just think of this as a friendly reminder.
3rd. make the great commander work the same as the great generals in theLopez's mod so that they can be brought around for a combat bonus too.
4th. more city defence is a must. with the hugely awesome magic element in the game, there is no need for bombardment at all. i say that there should be more defence bonuses (Moat, Catapult towers, Subterranean mines for runes civs, "Helms Deep" type wonder, etc) that boost the defence dramatically. im talking 200+% bonus from cities so that merely throwing fireballs and imps at the enemy wont help you at all. now im not saying every city should/will build all of these (maybe restrict to certain terrain types or something) but some cities should basically be impenetratable without some sort of seige unit.

ALMOST DONE! just answer this... why cant I play as Inferno?! that guy is scary as... well... hell!!

I have either a major bug or this was intended kael. But if this was intended its very unbalanced.

The lachurip or however you spell them, there mud golems the one that replaces workers do not add food to production when making them!

I think this is very unbalanced even if it makes sense, since its a golem.

For the sake of gameplay balance can you either A: make the worker golem cheaper in hammer cost and dont allow to build them with food and hammers or B: let them be build with food and hammers.

Because right now i cant build them with food like regular workers and its unbalanced.

Heres a screenshot. Please fix it, i want to play that civ. :cry:

Mud Golems are meant to be that way. It takes a while to get one built, but they work 50% faster than normal workers. So the luchuirp suffer from a weak start, but later on they can regain the advantage. Perhaps the cost should be slightly decreased, though.
Oh, and just be thankful you didn't play them in one of the earlier editions - then you needed a Golem Workshop before you could even start building the Mud Golem. Now that was unbalanced:)

Mud Golems are meant to be that way. It takes a while to get one built, but they work 50% faster than normal workers. So the luchuirp suffer from a weak start, but later on they can regain the advantage. Perhaps the cost should be slightly decreased, though.
Oh, and just be thankful you didn't play them in one of the earlier editions - then you needed a Golem Workshop before you could even start building the Mud Golem. Now that was unbalanced:)

Well then couldnt you at least make it a little cheaper like say 75 hammers? Its still a bit too much for me to enjoy them this way.

Well, you'll certainly have to adjust to the Mud Golems. You may be used to build a worker first thing in the first city(judging from your screenshot), but that's not really viable with the Luchuirp. In fact, I sometimes build first settler before first worker as Luchuirp, as the golem takes forever if you attempt to build it before you get properly established.
It might still need to be changed to 75, but the Luchuirp are by no means completely unplayable as it is.

This is really low priority, but the description of the Mage Spell Charm Person reads "Keeps the unit form being able to attack." That should be "from."

Hey I found something odd about the Doviello Battlemaster. He had a button that said train maceman on him that said it would update my axeman to a maceman free of charge but when i clicked on it nothing would happen. I dont think he is supposed to have that on him. I was playing with the new patch.

I tried a quick game. The only thing I can say until now is that flags are still plain white, with no simbol (at least with 0.11a they had different colors)

I tried a quick game. The only thing I can say until now is that flags are still plain white, with no simbol (at least with 0.11a they had different colors)

There is a patch for that in the main thread. Either way I set the flag breaks someone. So chekc out the main thread in the Modpacks directory and you will see a patch that switches it to the other way. Let me know if it doesnt fix your problem.

Your right. The Grigori cant even build religious units so it wouldn't make sense for adventurers to be able to upgrade to them.

Yeah. Speaking of which i think the Grigori are getting too many adventurers.
A couple of solutions:
a) Decrease the number of them.
b) add a hero slaying promotion.
c) Make it so that once they are upgraded to a non-adventurer they can not be upgraded further. Hard to implement but would be a fun idea.

:rolleyes:There is a patch for that in the main thread. Either way I set the flag breaks someone. So chekc out the main thread in the Modpacks directory and you will see a patch that switches it to the other way. Let me know if it doesnt fix your problem.
:rolleyes:;):crazyeye: just me being sarcastic sorry i started that.

Hey Kael, first of all fantastic mod. i think this may be the coolest modding doen to any game ive ever seen. anyway, i have a few bugs to report.

first off, when spells are cast on a ship (esp. arcane barge, but not limited to just this) the summoned "thing" has 0 movement points. because it cant move AND it disappears the next turn (summoned promotion) it is useless. so basically, that has to be fixed.

This issue is fixed int he latest patch.

second, what (if anything) does the pirates cove improvement do? i can't build one anyway, but since i cant tell, there seems to be little point to making one.

It can only be built by the Lanun. It can be built in unowned titles. Ships in it heal faster and gain a defensive bonus. They can also pass through the cove so its a nice way to may a channel through thin landmass.

third, it seems that when a druid (and maybe elf, not sure about it though) creates a forest, it doesnt graphically change, though it does say "new forest" on the plot.

There isn't any graphic on the new forest yet. It will turn into a real forest in a few turns.

now for some quick suggestions.
1st. make the buccaneer (or whatever he is, the guy with boarding) the default swordsman gfx for now. it would be better than the pikeman i think.

Yeah its just placeholder art right now, we will get some better art in time.

2nd. (to do) maybe make a pedia entry for each kind of mana so we can see what they do. im sure you are planning on this, but just think of this as a friendly reminder.

Yeap, in time, right now fixing things is the top priority.

3rd. make the great commander work the same as the great generals in theLopez's mod so that they can be brought around for a combat bonus too.

Ill check it out, TheLopez is one of my favorite modmakers.

4th. more city defence is a must. with the hugely awesome magic element in the game, there is no need for bombardment at all. i say that there should be more defence bonuses (Moat, Catapult towers, Subterranean mines for runes civs, "Helms Deep" type wonder, etc) that boost the defence dramatically. im talking 200+% bonus from cities so that merely throwing fireballs and imps at the enemy wont help you at all. now im not saying every city should/will build all of these (maybe restrict to certain terrain types or something) but some cities should basically be impenetratable without some sort of seige unit.

Check out the editor and play with the numbers. Its pretty easy to add city defence to the cities. we have boosted the city defence pretty significatnly in FfH2, im not sure they need to be boosted more yet (not to say they dont need it, i just need to look at it closer).

ALMOST DONE! just answer this... why cant I play as Inferno?! that guy is scary as... well... hell!!

If you like Hyborem check out the new wallpaper in the wallpaper thread. :D

The reason he isnt playable is that he is speced to do some special stuff in "Fire" that probably wont be very player friendly. But we will see.

Well then couldnt you at least make it a little cheaper like say 75 hammers? Its still a bit too much for me to enjoy them this way.

Yeah i'd say that this is the best solution.

A minor thing, but I noticed the Elven Mage unit doesn't have the Elven promotion.

A minor thing, but I noticed the Elven Mage unit doesn't have the Elven promotion.

I think these are all in the process of getting cleaned up. Thanks for the heads up.

I just completed a Conquest Victory (Monarch) on a small pangaea map where I was running around stomping heads with my Veil units (Rosier etc) up to macemen etc. I'd eliminated two opponents (not all that quickly I might add) before any of the three had built a single road. :crazyeye:

They had workers who had built up mana nodes and other improvements, but no roads. I don't know if they didn't like those "Evil Veil round things they call wheels" or what, but the AI not having access to any resources made for an easier expected romp across the world.

This was on patch a, apologies if its been fixed already.

Loving the work you've all done :goodjob:

May i ask why deserts have no value at all. this seems pretty harsh and makes some maps pretty useless. Cant they be worth at least one shield. If not that make them effected with irragation for 2 food a desert may be useless but a irragated desert is a good food producer.

Just upgrade the terrain. There are few different ways to do that as well: Druid, Water sphere, Genesis and probably something else I haven't even seen.

I don't see what the problem is.

Yeah. Speaking of which i think the Grigori are getting too many adventurers.
A couple of solutions:
a) Decrease the number of them.
b) add a hero slaying promotion.
c) Make it so that once they are upgraded to a non-adventurer they can not be upgraded further. Hard to implement but would be a fun idea.

I disagree. I don't think they get too many adventurers. They don't have any UUs and cannot get any of the benefits from Religions (including discipline units, which is a serious disadvantage).

They rarely have more than 2 or 4, and that's the same amount as with a normal civ + 2 religious UUs if you build them all.

Bug - I just played a game with the elohim, and founded every religion except octopus overlords and the cult of the dragon, I had three religions in my capital city. When I tried spreading the Order there as well, the spread religion button wouldn't show up, yet when I moved the acolyte to other cities, the order can still spread. Is there a religion limit in Ffh or something?

I just played as the Grigori. I found that the Worldbuilder option would not appear. I loaded an old game, a FfH 1 game, and a vanilla Civ4 game and they all had that option. But, with the Grigori, no option. Seems like a bug...

Also, seems like the lack of Disciple units available for the Grigori leaves them especially vulnerable to Disease and Plague. There's no way to Heal. Is this intentional?

Is Bloom working as intended? I was able to basicly run around with Priest of Leaves and plant forest in all sorts of tiles. These eventually grew into ancient forests. Had farms, quarrys, pastures, plantations, cottages etc. basicly added a hammer to each that eventually added a food as well. My whole Civ area is one big ancient forest mostly with cottages in them.

The nice thing is I was able to keep science fairly high and still have gold for upgrades to adepts/other units.

It great in the sense that its very very elf like but seems like it might be to powerful.

Heh, posted in the old patch thread.

When constructing the Eternal Flame, production stops, but is not lost, when your Fire Mana supply is interupted. I'm not sure if that is intended or not.

Religions will spread to cities that already have a religion. Also, you cannot spread the Order to cities that have the Ashen Veil and vice versa using Acolyte or Savant units. However, you can convert to one of the religions and use the priest to spread the religion (and build a temple). Again, not sure if this is intended or not since documentation is...lacking ;) .

When you construct Genesis, it turns Ancient Forest on grassland tiles into regular forests again. I only mention this because my city of 26 suddenly became a city of 22 =/.

The tax and research settings are very buggy. They will randomly decide to auto-correct themselves, which often includes a change in the specialists assigned in your cities. I'm not sure what triggers this, but roughly 50% of the time it happens after a large change in gold production (A new religious capitol building, bazaar of mammon built in a religious capital, etc.).

I am also unable to add or remove Engineer specialists in a city.

I think the Halls of Granite is way overpowered. Reduce the bonus to +25%, at the most, for having stone.

The following buildings are set at +/-1% trade ruote yeild. I assume this is meant to be +/-1 trade routes or +/-10% trade route yeild.

Overseer's Residence
Shadowed Veil
Theater of Dreams
Golden Wood

You might want to make Treants national units.

All of these issues were encountered playing as Perpentach. I was using a large Tetonics map set at 70% water, temperate, noble and epic. I'm gonna try out one of the good civs on the next play through.

EDIT: Oh snap, I almost forgot. Perpentach is not able to construct Obelisks. You always forget the first things you notice v_v.

It great in the sense that its very very elf like but seems like it might be to powerful.

Considering that the Elf civ can build farms and cottages in forests without chopping down the forest, I would assume it is intended. A damn cool for that matter.

Bug - I just played a game with the elohim, and founded every religion except octopus overlords and the cult of the dragon, I had three religions in my capital city. When I tried spreading the Order there as well, the spread religion button wouldn't show up, yet when I moved the acolyte to other cities, the order can still spread. Is there a religion limit in Ffh or something?

Yes, I believe it's 3 religions only (so in your case they were veil, leaves and runes). Cult of the Dragon can only be founded by Sheaim and the civ of the boy-king (can't remember the name :P).

A minor thing, but I noticed the Elven Mage unit doesn't have the Elven promotion.

Thanks, Ill add it.

Bug - I just played a game with the elohim, and founded every religion except octopus overlords and the cult of the dragon, I had three religions in my capital city. When I tried spreading the Order there as well, the spread religion button wouldn't show up, yet when I moved the acolyte to other cities, the order can still spread. Is there a religion limit in Ffh or something?

It's not a bug. There's a limit, but only in the sense that The Order and The Ashen Veil cannot exist in the same city.

It great in the sense that its very very elf like but seems like it might be to powerful.

It is intended, but i sort of agree that it might be a bit too powerful. I played Ljosalfar yesterday, and I don't think I've ever had such large cities which had both a great economy thanks to cottages AND a great production thanks to forests AND good growth thanks to forests. And furthermore there's absolutely no issue with health and happiness with Guardians of Nature.

Bug - I just played a game with the elohim, and founded every religion except octopus overlords and the cult of the dragon, I had three religions in my capital city. When I tried spreading the Order there as well, the spread religion button wouldn't show up, yet when I moved the acolyte to other cities, the order can still spread. Is there a religion limit in Ffh or something?

Yes, the order cant spread to veil cities and the veil cant spread to order cities.

Also, seems like the lack of Disciple units available for the Grigori leaves them especially vulnerable to Disease and Plague. There's no way to Heal. Is this intentional?

Yes, the Grigori are big fans of the Aquea Sucellus.

Is Bloom working as intended? I was able to basicly run around with Priest of Leaves and plant forest in all sorts of tiles. These eventually grew into ancient forests. Had farms, quarrys, pastures, plantations, cottages etc. basicly added a hammer to each that eventually added a food as well. My whole Civ area is one big ancient forest mostly with cottages in them.

The nice thing is I was able to keep science fairly high and still have gold for upgrades to adepts/other units.

It great in the sense that its very very elf like but seems like it might be to powerful.

I want to keep cottages from growing to towns (so they would stop at hamlets) with elves and dwarves. I see them as better than humans at what they do but they just dont grow as big. but I haven't implemented that yet. Hopefully when it is done it will balance this out a bit.

I played as Calabim & couldn't get Vampirism to work at all. Is there some specific type of unit that's succeptible or something?

Also, for Hero units that have some magic starting promotions, is there a way that they can be eligible for the level up of those promotions? (I.e. if they start with Death I, can they be allowed to upgrade to Death II and III?)

Heh, posted in the old patch thread.

Originally Posted by Whitefire
When constructing the Eternal Flame, production stops, but is not lost, when your Fire Mana supply is interupted. I'm not sure if that is intended or not.

Yeap thats intended.

Religions will spread to cities that already have a religion. Also, you cannot spread the Order to cities that have the Ashen Veil and vice versa using Acolyte or Savant units. However, you can convert to one of the religions and use the priest to spread the religion (and build a temple). Again, not sure if this is intended or not since documentation is...lacking .

Yeap, thats intended.

When you construct Genesis, it turns Ancient Forest on grassland tiles into regular forests again. I only mention this because my city of 26 suddenly became a city of 22 =/.

Thats a mistake, going to have to fix that.

The tax and research settings are very buggy. They will randomly decide to auto-correct themselves, which often includes a change in the specialists assigned in your cities. I'm not sure what triggers this, but roughly 50% of the time it happens after a large change in gold production (A new religious capitol building, bazaar of mammon built in a religious capital, etc.).

No idea on this one.

I am also unable to add or remove Engineer specialists in a city.

This is a bug, that darn vampiric governor is getting in everyones way.

I think the Halls of Granite is way overpowered. Reduce the bonus to +25%, at the most, for having stone.

The following buildings are set at +/-1% trade ruote yeild. I assume this is meant to be +/-1 trade routes or +/-10% trade route yeild.

Overseer's Residence
Shadowed Veil
Theater of Dreams
Golden Wood

Thos should have all been fixed in patch b.

You might want to make Treants national units.

I have no idea why those are buildable, they were never suppsoed to be. I must have been testign something.

All of these issues were encountered playing as Perpentach. I was using a large Tetonics map set at 70% water, temperate, noble and epic. I'm gonna try out one of the good civs on the next play through.

EDIT: Oh snap, I almost forgot. Perpentach is not able to construct Obelisks. You always forget the first things you notice v_v.

Yeap, Perpentach cant build obelisks. This is a balance issue because his carnivals can give out massive culture so the obelisk was cut.

This save crashes the game as soon as I end turn. Dunno what's the reason. The game version is 2011b I think.

This save crashes the game as soon as I end turn. Dunno what's the reason. The game version is 2011b I think.

I will check it out, thanks.

Also, for Hero units that have some magic starting promotions, is there a way that they can be eligible for the level up of those promotions? (I.e. if they start with Death I, can they be allowed to upgrade to Death II and III?)

Quoting this since I was wondering the same thing. I was using the Octo Hero Hemah and got him to level 7 and wasn't able to upgrade to Fire III.

They are only aloowed to level spell spheres if they also have the channeling promotion at the right level. Hemah does only start with channeling II so he can not learn level 3 spheres.

I think i read somewhere that the problem with getting nothing from huts is when you are supposed to get a tech but don't have a city

In this game I get nothing when i move the scout in the hut...

*nod*
My guess on what is going on with this is that the hut gives you enough beakers toward a specific tech for you to research it, but until you have your first city you can't earn beakers. So, no city, no tech. But is just a guess.
~p

I always settle a city first, then pop. I hate popping the hut with the city, but sometimes you have to.

Great mod, I had much fun playing it and just love those many new ideas. Keep up the good work :)

Bugs I encountered:
It was reported, that fireballs from arcane barges could not move because the had 0 movement points. They also seem to be spawned inside the 1 cargo slot of the barge, meaning they would have to use their first move to exit the barge.
Arcane Forest graphics seem to be placed wrongly. The terrain boon works fine, but the graphic look like they are almost in the upper left tile. Not sure what's the cause.

Wonder balance:
The Nexus wonder seems way to powerful for its cost. It not only gives a nice economic boost, but also makes military offense/defense much more effektive. For example you only need to conquer 1 city on a foreign continent to constantly teleport all your new troops there. Or you can heavily reinforce any besieged city of yours. Maybe changing it to give a heavy production boon to any Obisidian Gates built by that empire would make it balanced. If the wonder stays the same I would at least suggest to rise the cost to 2500-3000 Hammers. Right now it can be completed by any GE or GC and is only twice the cost of a normal Gate.
The Pyramides (=early Caste System) also are too powerful and almost dominate the early- and midgame. They can be built quite early and quite quickly (with stone). And an early Caste System means you get +2 culture in every city, which often saves the time/cost for obelisks (basically your civ became cultural). It also means free production or research in every city, as well increased GP early on. Another advantate is the ability to heavily overexpand with caste system, either through settlers or conquest. Even a new size 1 city just needs a cheap market place to produce at >6 gold.

Civic suggestions: (how I love those civic icons)
The " :mad: in civs without x" attribute of republic/foreign trade takes away many options in the late game. In normal Civ4 emancipation just replaced the often obsolete serfdom/caste system. And slavery could have been too strong in a final war, so they gave it a flaw. But in FfH there are so many more interesting alternatives to republic/foreign trade.
Aristocracy looks weak right now. Even with sanitation a mix of cottages and farms seems the better alternative (and you have to switch to rebuplic later anyway). AI Leaders with aristocracy as their favorite civic also could starve their cities if they get aristocracy before sanitation.
The liberty civic could be changed to high upkeep, since it combines 2 powerful peacetime boons. During wartime many people will change to nationhood anyway, so the war weariness won't be seen often.
Regarding all labor civics: Maybe it's just me, but I think caste system is too good, even without the Pyramides. Military state may be an alternative for big wars, but I could never imagine using the others. I would suggest some disadvantage for caste system (after all it's an unfair system) as well as high upkeep. Also guilds seems way too weak, even compared to tribalism ("how many merchants do you need to cover the medium upkeep").
I like the medium upkeep for organised religion but can't understand why pacifism has been weakened like this. In normal civ4 the main advantages were the no upkeep and a strong boost to GPs. But now all you get is a weaker boost to GPs and a civic you have to chance as soon as a war starts.
And last but not least the apprenticeship civic: I like the idea of having slightly stronger units for slightly more buildtime. But unless I play a philosophical leader the low upkeep convinces me not to use it.

Spell suggestions:
Maybe converting desert to plains could take longer in the furture. That way the scorch spell could become more useful to cripple enemy cities.
I haven't tested this exactly, but it seems the courage promotion (10% healing) stacks. This means if one adept casts this spell the whole stack will get an incredible high regeneration rate, even in enemy territory.
On a simliar topic I think the medic promotions are to strong. The infirmary/herbalist boons in your own cities seem ok, but having a >60% regeneration in enemy territory for just a single ritualist/etc is incredibly strong.

Other suggestions:
The spiritual trait seems to be much stronger in FfH2. With spiritual leaders I often end up spreading several religions to my cities just to get the benefits of the temples. For example having the Overlord/Kilmorph/Veil Temples in a city adds 20% unit production 3Gold, 2Research, 3culture + 60% culture and 3happy faces with incence for a quite low production value.
Culture producing buildings: At some point I realised that for a long perdiod the only building which produces culture is the obelisk. Most other buildings have just %-culture boons. So unless you are creative, got the Pyramides or
follow the Octopus Overlords you have to rely on the money eating obelisks. Is this intended?
Also I realised the culture rate becomes quite useless to keep your citizens happy. The gambling house will allow your tax rate to do the same unless you build the expansive theater. And even then in most situations it's just better to increase your tax rate by 20% until you solved the cause of the unhappiness (war, lost luxuries, etc).


P.S: Wow that got quite long. Probably should say it again: Despite all suggestions I really enjoy this mod :goodjob:

Great mod, I had much fun playing it and just love those many new ideas. Keep up the good work :)

Bugs I encountered:
It was reported, that fireballs from arcane barges could not move because the had 0 movement points. They also seem to be spawned inside the 1 cargo slot of the barge, meaning they would have to use their first move to exit the barge.

This was fixed in the .11a patch.

Arcane Forest graphics seem to be placed wrongly. The terrain boon works fine, but the graphic look like they are almost in the upper left tile. Not sure what's the cause.

This was fixed in the .11b patch.

Wonder balance:
The Nexus wonder seems way to powerful for its cost. It not only gives a nice economic boost, but also makes military offense/defense much more effektive. For example you only need to conquer 1 city on a foreign continent to constantly teleport all your new troops there. Or you can heavily reinforce any besieged city of yours. Maybe changing it to give a heavy production boon to any Obisidian Gates built by that empire would make it balanced. If the wonder stays the same I would at least suggest to rise the cost to 2500-3000 Hammers. Right now it can be completed by any GE or GC and is only twice the cost of a normal Gate.
The Pyramides (=early Caste System) also are too powerful and almost dominate the early- and midgame. They can be built quite early and quite quickly (with stone). And an early Caste System means you get +2 culture in every city, which often saves the time/cost for obelisks (basically your civ became cultural). It also means free production or research in every city, as well increased GP early on. Another advantate is the ability to heavily overexpand with caste system, either through settlers or conquest. Even a new size 1 city just needs a cheap market place to produce at >6 gold.

Civic suggestions: (how I love those civic icons)
The " :mad: in civs without x" attribute of republic/foreign trade takes away many options in the late game. In normal Civ4 emancipation just replaced the often obsolete serfdom/caste system. And slavery could have been too strong in a final war, so they gave it a flaw. But in FfH there are so many more interesting alternatives to republic/foreign trade.
Aristocracy looks weak right now. Even with sanitation a mix of cottages and farms seems the better alternative (and you have to switch to rebuplic later anyway). AI Leaders with aristocracy as their favorite civic also could starve their cities if they get aristocracy before sanitation.
The liberty civic could be changed to high upkeep, since it combines 2 powerful peacetime boons. During wartime many people will change to nationhood anyway, so the war weariness won't be seen often.
Regarding all labor civics: Maybe it's just me, but I think caste system is too good, even without the Pyramides. Military state may be an alternative for big wars, but I could never imagine using the others. I would suggest some disadvantage for caste system (after all it's an unfair system) as well as high upkeep. Also guilds seems way too weak, even compared to tribalism ("how many merchants do you need to cover the medium upkeep").
I like the medium upkeep for organised religion but can't understand why pacifism has been weakened like this. In normal civ4 the main advantages were the no upkeep and a strong boost to GPs. But now all you get is a weaker boost to GPs and a civic you have to chance as soon as a war starts.
And last but not least the apprenticeship civic: I like the idea of having slightly stronger units for slightly more buildtime. But unless I play a philosophical leader the low upkeep convinces me not to use it.
Spell suggestions:
Maybe converting desert to plains could take longer in the furture. That way the scorch spell could become more useful to cripple enemy cities.
I haven't tested this exactly, but it seems the courage promotion (10% healing) stacks. This means if one adept casts this spell the whole stack will get an incredible high regeneration rate, even in enemy territory.
On a simliar topic I think the medic promotions are to strong. The infirmary/herbalist boons in your own cities seem ok, but having a >60% regeneration in enemy territory for just a single ritualist/etc is incredibly strong.

Other suggestions:
The spiritual trait seems to be much stronger in FfH2. With spiritual leaders I often end up spreading several religions to my cities just to get the benefits of the temples. For example having the Overlord/Kilmorph/Veil Temples in a city adds 20% unit production 3Gold, 2Research, 3culture + 60% culture and 3happy faces with incence for a quite low production value.
Culture producing buildings: At some point I realised that for a long perdiod the only building which produces culture is the obelisk. Most other buildings have just %-culture boons. So unless you are creative, got the Pyramides or
follow the Octopus Overlords you have to rely on the money eating obelisks. Is this intended?
Also I realised the culture rate becomes quite useless to keep your citizens happy. The gambling house will allow your tax rate to do the same unless you build the expansive theater. And even then in most situations it's just better to increase your tax rate by 20% until you solved the cause of the unhappiness (war, lost luxuries, etc).

Please keep this thread for bugs. So far the playtest is just open to make sure the mod works (both from a functional and fun aspect) and we arent ready to start tuning yet. Things will be coming and going from the mod (there are 2 new civics in 11c) and it doesnt make much sense to tune, since tuning is relative to the others options which or may not stay.

We will get to the balance stage once everything is in, then we will love this sort of feedback.

*nod*
My guess on what is going on with this is that the hut gives you enough beakers toward a specific tech for you to research it, but until you have your first city you can't earn beakers. So, no city, no tech. But is just a guess.
~p
the problem is that i already built a city but still got nothing from the hut

The 'Demon Slaying' promotion doesn't give its +40% bonus against demons.

The 'Demon Slaying' promotion doesn't give its +40% bonus against demons.

It does according to my testing. To test I created two units, one with the promotions and one without and checked their combat odds against the same demon. They were different.

the problem is that i already built a city but still got nothing from the hut

Well then I suppose that I should maybe see what is in the savegame rather than just spout off.... whodathunkit

~p

- The gipsy (spelling??) wagon gives no culture when it's in one of your own cities... (sorry if this has been posted before)

-As I was scouting along the Dolviello border(purely for peaceful purposes, I assure you...), I saw something odd:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8940/odd25lu.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=odd25lu.jpg)

Seems the AI might have a bit of trouble handling its great persons properly. The two were gone later, though, when I "aquired" that particular part of Dolviello lands.

- Not really a bug, but the AI never seems to build the Pact of the Nilhorn(I think it has a spelling error, shouldn't Pack=Pact?). It's been available to me for ages, I think I'm in year 300 in a quick game now.

-As I was scouting along the Dolviello border(purely for peaceful purposes, I assure you...), I saw something odd:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8940/odd25lu.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=odd25lu.jpg)

Seems the AI might have a bit of trouble handling its great persons properly. The two were gone later, though, when I "aquired" that particular part of Dolviello lands.

- Not really a bug, but the AI never seems to build the Pact of the Nilhorn(I think it has a spelling error, shouldn't Pack=Pact?). It's been available to me for ages, I think I'm in year 300 in a quick game now.

Maybe he was sending him somewhere to make an academy? And yeah, "Pack" was a typo, i fixed it.

Well, what I found odd is that there were two of them.

Well, what I found odd is that there were two of them.

Probably saving one for a golden age and using one to build an academy. The AI decided to build an academy and is probably doing "send great sage to build academy" instead of, "send one great sage to build academy". SO they'll both end up in the target city with the academy being built by one and the other being saved for a golden age.

Off topic:
The not building of Pact of the Nilhorns is related to the Way the AI evaluates Stuff. there is no advantage (that the AI can see) to Pact of the nilhorn so it is not built. Maybe we should introduce some Flavor Weights for buildings that will tell the Ai a building is good for something special . (We just have to make sure most of the Weights (all that ar not really applicable) are set to exacly 0. there is another problem with the selecting AI i just came over... Adept... the AI builts units as workers that can build improvements, and evaluates their worth depending on the number of improvements a unit can built. So Adepts are really relativeley valuable workers to the AI. Fortunatley normal worksers can built nodes as well or we would see only adepts and no workers in AI states ...)

@Great Artists: Ill take a look at the GP AI when i have time. This certainly seems odd.

I noticed that when I build World Units like Baron, Pack of the Nilhorn, etc. in a city with automatic promotions (Aqua Sec..., or Tower of Eyes) those units don't recieve those promotions. Is that intentional, or a bug? I'm guessing that the game doesn't recognize them as units, yet I can't hurry them with GC or GE either.

There is a patch for that in the main thread. Either way I set the flag breaks someone. So chekc out the main thread in the Modpacks directory and you will see a patch that switches it to the other way. Let me know if it doesnt fix your problem.
Still no symbols, but at least are different colors, thanks. :)

Off topic:
The not building of Pact of the Nilhorns is related to the Way the AI evaluates Stuff. there is no advantage (that the AI can see) to Pact of the nilhorn so it is not built. Maybe we should introduce some Flavor Weights for buildings that will tell the Ai a building is good for something special . (We just have to make sure most of the Weights (all that ar not really applicable) are set to exacly 0. there is another problem with the selecting AI i just came over... Adept... the AI builts units as workers that can build improvements, and evaluates their worth depending on the number of improvements a unit can built. So Adepts are really relativeley valuable workers to the AI. Fortunatley normal worksers can built nodes as well or we would see only adepts and no workers in AI states ...)

@Great Artists: Ill take a look at the GP AI when i have time. This certainly seems odd.

Most of the python effect buildigns have aiweights in place, but I didnt have one on the Pact yet. I'll add one.

Probably saving one for a golden age and using one to build an academy. The AI decided to build an academy and is probably doing "send great sage to build academy" instead of, "send one great sage to build academy". SO they'll both end up in the target city with the academy being built by one and the other being saved for a golden age.

I like to pretend like the Ai is being smart too. :crazyeye:

Look at what perpentach says to me...

Its also a bug because in the last game he actually said hes greeting line.

This is just too funny! :rotfl:
See it for yourself!

Perpentach: Welcome to belseraphs, care for some salad? I made it myself!

Thats too creepy with him saying it. It could be in his character or not.. I dont know. :eek:

I like to pretend like the Ai is being smart too. :crazyeye:

Dude, I'm here because I want to play in a fantasy world. Stop ruining it with your reality. :D

Dude, I'm here because I want to play in a fantasy world. Stop ruining it with your reality. :D

hahahahahahahahah :lol:

Perpentach: Welcome to belseraphs, care for some salad? I made it myself!

Thats too creepy with him saying it. It could be in his character or not.. I dont know. :eek:

That sounds like the Vanilla Caesar greeting, but somehow it's classic for Perpentach. :lol:

I definitly wouldnt eat that salad.

I definitly wouldnt eat that salad.

Me neither. Him being that nice is way too creepy.

But i guess its ok for his character.

He is completely ALOOF!

@Kael-You might want to update the first post with all the known bugs of 201b.

@Kael-You might want to update the first post with all the known bugs of 201b.

They are all here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171497

This save crashes the game as soon as I end turn. Dunno what's the reason. The game version is 2011b I think.

I dont think this is a 2011b game, I cant load it.

Sorry if this has been explained before, but searching the forums didn't turn up anything:
What is needed for "gift vampirism" to work? So far I only was able to gift it once to one of my units, but all my other vampires had their icon greyed out.

The unit which will receive the vampirism must be level 6 or higher, if its a moroi it only need to be lvl 4 or higher.

I used World Builder to give myself a Loki unit early on. I used him to get a city to -10 culture, but it didn't go poof as I read was intended for having negative culture. Is this bugged or did I not take it down far enough?

I used World Builder to give myself a Loki unit early on. I used him to get a city to -10 culture, but it didn't go poof as I read was intended for having negative culture. Is this bugged or did I not take it down far enough?

Yeah, I have to reconsider all of the culture effects, Consecrate, Gypsy Wagons and Loki. They either arent doing enough, or there is some 1.61 change that im not understanding. Its on the wish list.

Yeah, I have to reconsider all of the culture effects, Consecrate, Gypsy Wagons and Loki. They either arent doing enough, or there is some 1.61 change that im not understanding. Its on the wish list.

They did seem to be giving a little gold each turn, but it wasn't being added into the budget. I just figured it out since it said -4 a turn but i was gettting +2. No idea what was happening with culture though...

Hey I found something odd about the Doviello Battlemaster. He had a button that said train maceman on him that said it would update my axeman to a maceman free of charge but when i clicked on it nothing would happen. I dont think he is supposed to have that on him. I was playing with the new patch.

They are supposed to be able to upgrade the axemen (at least the civilopedia says so) I had something similar happen. I upgraded an axeman to....

a fireball. :crazyeye:

Imagine my surprise. I sent it out exploring the ocean, very slowly (it didn't go away at the end of the turn.)

I noticed that when I build World Units like Baron, Pack of the Nilhorn, etc. in a city with automatic promotions (Aqua Sec..., or Tower of Eyes) those units don't recieve those promotions. Is that intentional, or a bug? I'm guessing that the game doesn't recognize them as units, yet I can't hurry them with GC or GE either.

Not a bug - those units aren't BUILT in the city to get the bonus promos, they're drawn from outside as a result of the wonder's effect.

I've done a couple of searches in this thread but I haven't found anyone reporting this (very odd... makes me think I did something wrong):
the engeneer specialist add/remove buttons don't work, I suspect it might have something to do with the vampiric governor. To add an engeneer I had to mess around with the automatic assignement from the AI but at one point I had an engeneer in a city blatantly specialized for sages and there was no way to remove him, even by assigning all citizens to work plots :(

I've done a couple of searches in this thread but I haven't found anyone reporting this (very odd... makes me think I did something wrong):
the engeneer specialist add/remove buttons don't work, I suspect it might have something to do with the vampiric governor. To add an engeneer I had to mess around with the automatic assignement from the AI but at one point I had an engeneer in a city blatantly specialized for sages and there was no way to remove him, even by assigning all citizens to work plots :(

Yeah, its been reported and its fixed in the next version.

- I was able to upgrad a zealot to a cultist at level one - aren't diven upgrades supposed to work the same way as the caster?

- The Balseraph Catapult has no sound when retreating. Semms that no new unit has one - would be cool if you add one :) After 10 of the catapults retreating in one after another i was quite shocked by the noise of the first one that died (should really turn down my speakers)

Hey I found something odd about the Doviello Battlemaster. He had a button that said train maceman on him that said it would update my axeman to a maceman free of charge but when i clicked on it nothing would happen. I dont think he is supposed to have that on him. I was playing with the new patch.

Your right. I will fix it in the next version.

The Halls of Granite gives -40 trade routes. Not very tempting to build this. :D

The Halls of Granite gives -40 trade routes. Not very tempting to build this. :D

Ouch, ill fix it in the next version. Thanks!

Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but I can't seem to get my vampires to consume another unit. I've brought lots of bloodpets along with them for the battle. Clicking on the icon gives me the select target icon, but when I try and click on the bloodpet in the same square, it just switches to that unit. And I can't seem to click on them at all if they are not in the same square as the vampire. Am I doing something wrong?

Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but I can't seem to get my vampires to consume another unit. I've brought lots of bloodpets along with them for the battle. Clicking on the icon gives me the select target icon, but when I try and click on the bloodpet in the same square, it just switches to that unit. And I can't seem to click on them at all if they are not in the same square as the vampire. Am I doing something wrong?

It sounds like you may be clicking on the bloodpet icon instead of the tile. The process should be:

1. Click on the vampires 'Feed' ability.
2. Click on the vampires tile (this is one of the few spells that targets the casts tile, I may see if Talchas can give us a switch to skip this step since it isnt really needed).
3. You should get a popup of all the valid targets in that tile (living, non-vampires with the same owner as the caster).
4. Click on the unit in the popup and select cast (good day to be a vampire, bad day to be a bloodpet).

Let me know if that doesnt work for you.

Yea that doesn't work for me. I get the green border on the tile, but when I click it just switches the active unit to the bloodpet instead of giving me a selection screen.

Yea that doesn't work for me. I get the green border on the tile, but when I click it just switches the active unit to the bloodpet instead of giving me a selection screen.

K, Ill check it out, thanks.

Here'a a low priority one-- playing multiplayer, I get the sound effects of the spells that my opponent casts.

Also, playing as the vampires last night, I noticed some strangeness with the haste spell: Move a vamp and bloodpet onto a hill (using up all their moves) so that moves show as 0/3 (Vamp) and 0/2(BP). Cast haste with the vamp and then the moves show as 0/4, 0/3

Here'a a low priority one-- playing multiplayer, I get the sound effects of the spells that my opponent casts.

Also, playing as the vampires last night, I noticed some strangeness with the haste spell: Move a vamp and bloodpet onto a hill (using up all their moves) so that moves show as 0/3 (Vamp) and 0/2(BP). Cast haste with the vamp and then the moves show as 0/4, 0/3

Simotaneous turns?

I mentioned this already but you never acknowledged me and i dont see it on the list of changes.

The agriculture civic is bugged and doesnt give the +1 health its supposed to. I have a screenshot proving it a couple pages back.


And also i mentioned this before to another developer but i dont know if you heard it. I think the mud golem for the luchiurp should cost 75 hammers instead of 100.

Reason is is because it doesnt use food to build it like normal workers and 100hammers is too big of a initial cost.

And some of the other developers agreed with me. ;)

I mentioned this already but you never acknowledged me and i dont see it on the list of changes.

The agriculture civic is bugged and doesnt give the +1 health its supposed to. I have a screenshot proving it a couple pages back.


And also i mentioned this before to another developer but i dont know if you heard it. I think the mud golem for the luchiurp should cost 75 hammers instead of 100.

Reason is is because it doesnt use food to build it like normal workers and 100hammers is too big of a initial cost.

And some of the other developers agreed with me. ;)

Loki is working on the Luchuirp right now. He was the designer that agreed with you so he will probably recommend your change as part of his redesign. So I think it will be coming.

As or the agriculture I noticed that sometimes civics dont take effect until a city grows beyond a certain size. This may just be because it was taken from a pop 1 city.

Yea that doesn't work for me. I get the green border on the tile, but when I click it just switches the active unit to the bloodpet instead of giving me a selection screen.

I wasnt able to duplicate this. It works fine for me.

No hawk sound when the hawks do recon. Didnt try it out of a city this was off an Elven Ranger.

When playing the Calabim, I found that units Losha turns into Vampires get the Immortal promotion after killing another unit as well, just like she does. Is that supposed to be standard for all the Vampire units, or is it a bug?

It sounds like you may be clicking on the bloodpet icon instead of the tile. The process should be:

1. Click on the vampires 'Feed' ability.
2. Click on the vampires tile (this is one of the few spells that targets the casts tile, I may see if Talchas can give us a switch to skip this step since it isnt really needed).

I can probably do this pretty easily, but I'll hold off until I can fix the multiplayer problem.

I can probably do this pretty easily, but I'll hold off until I can fix the multiplayer problem.

Sounds good thanks Talchas.

First of all, great mod, congratulation, I'm addicted again to Civ4 !

I don't know if it's intended, but here is what happened.
I summoned an Imp, this Imp won a battle, got promoted (I gave him Combat II and III if I remember). After that, i was able to upgrade it to Conjurer or Mage !

Thanks again for the great mod !

Question/Bug

Playing Luchuirp with runes as state religion. I build a savant in a city that has a temple of veil. When I move the savant to any of my cities, I am not able to spread the veil religion to it. Why?

I am however able to build an acolyte (in a city that has a temple of the order) and spread the order religion.

You can't spread the Ashen Veil to cities with The Order and vice versa. Thats intended.

However, you can convert to the religion you want to spread and use it's priest unit to spread religion (and a temple) that way.

Not sure if this is intended or not, but when you move off of a Sentry Tower, the sight bonus is still in effect, meaning you can see an extra radius of 1 if you move in all 8 directions.

And also i mentioned this before to another developer but i dont know if you heard it. I think the mud golem for the luchiurp should cost 75 hammers instead of 100.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. I just played a game as the Luchurip and got around the building cost of workers by sniping several from neighboring Evil civs. It's not that big of a deal really as long as you adapt your playstyle to the dificulties of the Civ. My vote is to leave it as is :goodjob: .

First of all, great mod, congratulation, I'm addicted again to Civ4 !

I don't know if it's intended, but here is what happened.
I summoned an Imp, this Imp won a battle, got promoted (I gave him Combat II and III if I remember). After that, i was able to upgrade it to Conjurer or Mage !

Thanks again for the great mod !

Thats definitly possible, I assume you were playing one of the leaders with the summoning trait. I assume that the upgraded mage still "unsummoned" as normal.

Question/Bug

Playing Luchuirp with runes as state religion. I build a savant in a city that has a temple of veil. When I move the savant to any of my cities, I am not able to spread the veil religion to it. Why?

I am however able to build an acolyte (in a city that has a temple of the order) and spread the order religion.

The veil cant spread to cities with the order in it and the order cant spread to cities with the veil in it. I assume that was what was keeping you from doing it.

edit: Oops, Whitefire beat me to it.

No hawk sound when the hawks do recon. Didnt try it out of a city this was off an Elven Ranger.

I would list this as feature not a bug. In FFH1 it became quite annoying especially if you used 2-3 hawks a turn.

This might not be a bug with your mod, Kael, but I started a game recently and ended up with two rivers running south from my starting town into a largeish desert/plains area. I thought I'd hit a jackpot until I realized - only ONE of the rivers had floodplains along it! The second river went through dozens of desert tiles but not one of them had flood plains. Eventually that river flowed into another one far southeast of my capital, and that river did have flood plains.

The only thing I can think of is that the no-flood river was created by the starting position tweaker function to help the starting capital position and the script didn't add the features along its length.

Again, not sure if it's something specific to your mod, but I've never seen anything like that in vanilla.

Got a CTD running a recent a game.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. I just played a game as the Luchurip and got around the building cost of workers by sniping several from neighboring Evil civs. It's not that big of a deal really as long as you adapt your playstyle to the dificulties of the Civ. My vote is to leave it as is :goodjob: .

Actually I would call that a bug. It makes NO sense whatsoever that a human worker detail mysteriously transforms into a gigantic golem made of mud just because I capture them. Luichirp needs to have their worker costs decreased signifigantly, and IMO they shouldn't be able to capture workers.

On agriculture civic: the +1 from agric cancels the -1 from fend for themselves and therefore it looks like it isnt working but it does.

I noticed the agriculture civic works as well. It takes away a :yuck: and doesn't add a :health: which is confusing at first. The end result is the same though which is good.

Simotaneous turns?

Yes. It was kinda odd casting a spell, and hearing the sound come from my wife's computer across the room. No biggie, but thought you should be aware of it...

BTW, I think you guys rock! (My wife does too) Best... Mod.... Ever....
:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

I think it rocks that your wife plays this with you!

My girlfriend would shoot all of you if she could:)

OK, I hope I'm not just repeating already reported issues. I've thrashed the life at out of FFH2 now on a few of the civs and noticed a couple of things I don't know if they have been reported yet:

The Holy City for the Cult of the Dragon gives not benefit, yet the civpedia states +2 science. It looks like, since you can't adopt COTD as a state religion, you get no stately bouns. - playing the Sheaim

If you unfortunately build a city, on what is later found out to be a mana node, you have no way of building the node and basically "lose" the resource.

If your got open border agreements with the Doviello, you can't attack animals in thier terriorty, and I had been chasing down that bear for ages! :mad:

Is there a way to have 1 less civ than normal in a game without starting a Custom Game. If I set up a custom game I can't select any of the non-human-playable civs even when they are assigned to AI and I always like seeing that cheery Infernal leader pop up and say hello.

Grigori seem highly handicapped with their adventures making up for the loss of religion. First, an adventurer can only upgrade to a buildable unit (They're adventurers, surely they're are better than normal tech level) and as long as there is enough barbarians, you end up with units with the same amount of XP, so there is nothing to differenciant my adventurers to my normal units.

Thats it for now, I'm impressed with the general stability. I've worked on software packages shakier than this, on those have been released on the market!!! Brilliant, !que rico!

Actually I would call that a bug. It makes NO sense whatsoever that a human worker detail mysteriously transforms into a gigantic golem made of mud just because I capture them. Luichirp needs to have their worker costs decreased signifigantly, and IMO they shouldn't be able to capture workers.

Thats a vanilla Civ thing. You can't captur India's Fast Workers and every worker unit captured by India turns into a fast worker.

Thats a vanilla Civ thing. You can't captur India's Fast Workers and every worker unit captured by India turns into a fast worker.

How about making dummy worker for Luchuirp? Though that would not solve "capturing" bit it would solve "transformation" one.

I think it rocks that your wife plays this with you!

My girlfriend would shoot all of you if she could:)

Agreed, but I don't think my wife would shoot anyone. Poison maybe....

Sorry Didnt know this thread was going, linked to 011a thread from main page :-/ Posted in there with file attached....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171661&page=6

Thats a vanilla Civ thing. You can't captur India's Fast Workers and every worker unit captured by India turns into a fast worker.

No, it's fine as is. It's a risk vs. reward thing. Yes you can go to war and gank some workers, but now you have an evil Civ that will declare war on you at random times...that is if you can get a peace treaty signed.

I was trying to test the various spells and I haven't been able to click on the consecrate spell (law II/divine) (the tool tip in the civilopedia says it increases your culture around the caster). It could be that I don't know how it supposed to work though. Has anyone else successfully cast this spell?

The Hawk icon is on my build list when playing as Perpentarch, but I am unable to build the hunting lodge (I think this is correct as I could build acrobats with the carnival), but the poor acrobats can never have their cargo slot filled.

ive seen this mentioned but i dont believe ive seen an acknowledgement
in 2011b

- ive offered civs resource or tech deals (for example 1 mithril for 1 gold) and a few times - theyve counter offered their resource for nothing in return
- i thought it might be a cool way for friendly civs to say "no take it as a gi