I hope its ok I'm starting a new thread. I couldn't find any thread which relates to this directly.

Kael - are you accepting suggestions for magic items? These would behave like Orthus' Axe (go to the unit killing the holder) and can be found by your units in various ways (i.e. beating an enemy leader, killing a certain barbarian, completing certain tasks).

Is this something you'd be interested in?

I hope its ok I'm starting a new thread. I couldn't find any thread which relates to this directly.

Kael - are you accepting suggestions for magic items? These would behave like Orthus' Axe (go to the unit killing the holder) and can be found by your units in various ways (i.e. beating an enemy leader, killing a certain barbarian, completing certain tasks).

Is this something you'd be interested in?

Sure, always interested in new ideas. They probably won't be implemented until shadow. Here are a few guidelines (not that they cant be broken):

1. "Magic items" in the mod represent powerful artifacts, not just +1 longswords. Those are covered by automatic promotions and the enchantment spells. So when you think of an item think of a relic that has existed since the Age of Magic and carries with it a history and interesting effect.

2. Im not to interested in items that only have their uberness to offer. A sword that gives +300% combat isnt very interesting. Or its better to say that we have already considered and planned for those sorts of objects, what we can use from the community are more creative ideas.

3. There will probably only ever be a handful of magic items in the game. Im not a fan of overusing a mechanic. Dragons are cool, but i only want 3. Magic items are the same, they impact is minimilized if they are overused. So think about what items you would want to have if you were only limited to 5 of them.

4. Equipment mechanics have to be best suited for equipment. You could have a great idea for an item that is better used as a unit ability, spell or wonder (not that that is a total waste as ill gladly use the mechanic in another form).

5. Along the previous two guidelines the items primary ability should be unique. A wand that lets the wielder cast fireballs isnt unique. A wand that lets the wielder cast blue fireballs, well thats not unique either (dont try to trick me :D )

6. The trick is to come up with a very simple concept that has a practical game effect and good flavor.

Lets look at an example:

Idea- A Vampiric Blade that heals its wielder whenever it kills a living opponent.
[tab]Fun: Players could enjoy it, no one will download the mod to try it out. Kinda a 5 out of 10 for fun.
[tab]Design: No effect most of the time, it only applies when the wielder is attacked multiple times. Therefor it is most effective for defensive units fighting off waves of lower level units. Negates the usefulness of healing spells and medic units for the wielder which is bad but minor considering that it only applies to 1 unit. 3 out of 10 for Design.
[tab]Flavor: Flavor on this item is pretty good. It fits the genre, is appropriate for a weapon, and is easy to match an evocative name to the effect that most players will be able to quickly recognize and remember. 8 out of 10 for Flavor.

So kinda a medicore equipment idea. Anything being recommended should be more interesting than that sword.

Crown of Ishrazephi

Ishrazephi the sorcerer was always a loner. Since his young days, growing up in an orphanage in the small city of Yavne, he had trouble befriending his fellow man. His frail body, along with unique intelligence had always made him an outcast. He was viewed by others as odd. Almost unbearable, he would always say the wrong thing in the wrong time.

As a child, he would always get picked on by his classmates. Until one day, at approximately the age of 14, while being picked on by a bully, Ishrazephi uttered these words: "arth, mikara, soku".

An uncontrollable blaze filled the school yard, after which Ishrazephi stood standing. Where once was his school, lied only ashes and charred bodies of his old classmates and teachers, the weak cries of the survivors' agony left unheard by Ishrazephi.

Ishrazephi himself had burned his clothes entirely, and found himself running almost naked into the woods surrounding Yavne. That was where he hid for several years, knowing the king himself had offered a prize for his head.

He had dreamed of redeaming himself. Returning to Yavne as a king. He hunted during the days, and dedicated the nights for his magnificent project. A magic item which would earn him the respect of the people of Yavne, and allow him to enter back into society. He worked dilligently, but couldn't decipher the exact way to finish his project.

Until one day a loud screech had awaken Ishra. He opened his eyes to see an unbelievable army of barbarian creatures surrounding the city of Yavne. A catapult at its gates. He stood helpless as the first rock was released. Minutes later, the frail wall of Yavne was no more, and army of Orcs storming in, raping the women and killing the helpless children.

At first, Ishrazephi stood in shock, but then he decided - now would be his chance to redeem himself. Though he had no practical experience, he had delved deep into research of magic.

He opened with a meteor shower, killing almost half of the surprised orcs, along with any of Yavne's citizen's who had survived the attack up until then. He followed with a lightning bolt and several additional spells, diminishing the numbers of the shocked orcs.

Suddenly he came to a halt. His powers were exhausted, and while he had killed a majority of the orcs, several remained.

There was a moment of silence, each side uncertain. It then occured to the orcs that his powers were gone. They began inching closer slowly.

Ishrazephi stumbled backwards, falling. He knew this could be the end. He searched through his robes hopelessly, finally deciding to try a desperate ploy. He grabbes the item he had spent the last ten years working on, and placed it on his head.

"I am your king! Thou shall bow before me!". He then began mumbling enchantments, hoping the orcs would mistake them for another powerful spell.

To his amazement the orcs halted, looking at each other. They then turned their backs, dropping any items that weren't attached to their bodies and fled.

Ever since that day, Isrhazephi's item was known as the Crown of Ishrazephi, though it looks like a round metal pole. Bards have told stories about it, claiming that any barbarian who sees a person wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi immediately flees due to its unique magical power. Others claim that it does not really have any magical powers whatsoever. As a matter of fact, those stupid orcs simply ran away spreading a ridiculous rumour which eventually grew to gigantic proportions.

Either way, anyone wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi, if it really exists, and his party, is safe from a barbarian attack.

- - - - - -

Crown of Ishrazephi

effect - barbarian units do not attack its wearer or anyone in the same block. If there is a "fear" effect in the game, it may also be an option.



- - - - -

I hope you like it... spent some time writing it. Of course, its absolutely your option and I won't be insulted if you don't think its right for this great mod.

Magic Carpet - Owner and say one other unit can travel over any terrain.

Everflowing Bottle - A special unit produced by a wonder. If activated all units adjacent to the bottle square are destroyed, and the terrain become coast.

Banners of Light and Dark - Maybe allow free passage through all evil/good territories, can't be attacked by evil/good civ units, small bonus for stack v evil/good.

Intelligent Cursed Weapon - Taking the weapon...good combat bonus, but it is random each turn to see if the AI moves for you, or you control unit actions.

The Eye of Mordor - A wonder that lets you see a certain amount of squares anywhere on the map.

Orc warhorn - A special unit that summons x amount of orcs to fight for you, but can only be activated once before being destroyed.

Wand that allows a special attack that turns target units into different units... Ex: Wand of Chaos...chance to turn target into barbarian demon spawn, or maybe a random animal. Only usable by mage of some kind.

Sword of Banishment - Powerful weapon against demons, and small all around combat bonus. Using this on enemies also has a percentage chance of sending them to the hell map when tech level is right.

I've got a ton of ideas...I'll post more later.

Something that I have been tinkering with is having promotions purchasable with gold. It would probably translate well with all of these promotions.

Crown of Ishrazephi

Ishrazephi the sorcerer was always a loner. Since his young days, growing up in an orphanage in the small city of Yavne, he had trouble befriending his fellow man. His frail body, along with unique intelligence had always made him an outcast. He was viewed by others as odd. Almost unbearable, he would always say the wrong thing in the wrong time.

As a child, he would always get picked on by his classmates. Until one day, at approximately the age of 14, while being picked on by a bully, Ishrazephi uttered these words: "arth, mikara, soku".

An uncontrollable blaze filled the school yard, after which Ishrazephi stood standing. Where once was his school, lied only ashes and charred bodies of his old classmates and teachers, the weak cries of the survivors' agony left unheard by Ishrazephi.

Ishrazephi himself had burned his clothes entirely, and found himself running almost naked into the woods surrounding Yavne. That was where he hid for several years, knowing the king himself had offered a prize for his head.

He had dreamed of redeaming himself. Returning to Yavne as a king. He hunted during the days, and dedicated the nights for his magnificent project. A magic item which would earn him the respect of the people of Yavne, and allow him to enter back into society. He worked dilligently, but couldn't decipher the exact way to finish his project.

Until one day a loud screech had awaken Ishra. He opened his eyes to see an unbelievable army of barbarian creatures surrounding the city of Yavne. A catapult at its gates. He stood helpless as the first rock was released. Minutes later, the frail wall of Yavne was no more, and army of Orcs storming in, raping the women and killing the helpless children.

At first, Ishrazephi stood in shock, but then he decided - now would be his chance to redeem himself. Though he had no practical experience, he had delved deep into research of magic.

He opened with a meteor shower, killing almost half of the surprised orcs, along with any of Yavne's citizen's who had survived the attack up until then. He followed with a lightning bolt and several additional spells, diminishing the numbers of the shocked orcs.

Suddenly he came to a halt. His powers were exhausted, and while he had killed a majority of the orcs, several remained.

There was a moment of silence, each side uncertain. It then occured to the orcs that his powers were gone. They began inching closer slowly.

Ishrazephi stumbled backwards, falling. He knew this could be the end. He searched through his robes hopelessly, finally deciding to try a desperate ploy. He grabbes the item he had spent the last ten years working on, and placed it on his head.

"I am your king! Thou shall bow before me!". He then began mumbling enchantments, hoping the orcs would mistake them for another powerful spell.

To his amazement the orcs halted, looking at each other. They then turned their backs, dropping any items that weren't attached to their bodies and fled.

Ever since that day, Isrhazephi's item was known as the Crown of Ishrazephi, though it looks like a round metal pole. Bards have told stories about it, claiming that any barbarian who sees a person wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi immediately flees due to its unique magical power. Others claim that it does not really have any magical powers whatsoever. As a matter of fact, those stupid orcs simply ran away spreading a ridiculous rumour which eventually grew to gigantic proportions.

Either way, anyone wearing the Crown of Ishrazephi, if it really exists, and his party, is safe from a barbarian attack.

- - - - - -

Crown of Ishrazephi

effect - barbarian units do not attack its wearer or anyone in the same block. If there is a "fear" effect in the game, it may also be an option.



- - - - -

I hope you like it... spent some time writing it. Of course, its absolutely your option and I won't be insulted if you don't think its right for this great mod.

There is a fear ability on the game and I wouldnt want to copy that mechanic for an item. I love your writeup and I hate to waste it so dont worry about providing that level of detail until the mechanic is accepted.

Most of these are similiar to spells that already in the game or design docs.

Magic Carpet - Owner and say one other unit can travel over any terrain.

Better done as the Fly spell.

Everflowing Bottle - A special unit produced by a wonder. If activated all units adjacent to the bottle square are destroyed, and the terrain become coast.

Better done as the Tsunami spell.

Banners of Light and Dark - Maybe allow free passage through all evil/good territories, can't be attacked by evil/good civ units, small bonus for stack v evil/good.

This idea I like. I may include some sort of item that makes you unable to be attacked by creatures of a certain alignment or type. Hmm..

Intelligent Cursed Weapon - Taking the weapon...good combat bonus, but it is random each turn to see if the AI moves for you, or you control unit actions.

This will confuse casual players.

The Eye of Mordor - A wonder that lets you see a certain amount of squares anywhere on the map.

This was the origional idea for the Throne of Omniscience, which eventually got changed to the Omniscience tech.

Orc warhorn - A special unit that summons x amount of orcs to fight for you, but can only be activated once before being destroyed.

This is the recruit spell.

Wand that allows a special attack that turns target units into different units... Ex: Wand of Chaos...chance to turn target into barbarian demon spawn, or maybe a random animal. Only usable by mage of some kind.

This will cause players to reload until they get a good result, not fun.

Sword of Banishment - Powerful weapon against demons, and small all around combat bonus. Using this on enemies also has a percentage chance of sending them to the hell map when tech level is right.

This is the Banish spell.

Thanks. I'll try to think something up, or if anybody has good ideas but doesn't like doing the writeup, I'll be happy to help.

There is a fear ability on the game and I wouldnt want to copy that mechanic for an item.

The crown might yet be "saved" by a slight alteration to the background story. If it was altered so that the orcs did not flee, but instead bowed down to him, aknowledging him as a ruler, it could probably have a somewhat different mechanic.
The crown could then grant the same effect as the Barbarian trait(except the research penalty) to the civ that controls it. They would be at peace with the barbarians as long as one of their units held the crown.

For the Clan and Dolviello leaders which are already at peace with the barbarians, it might have some other effect. Perhaps it could grant them control of a certain % of barbarian units/settlements.

In a game with large landmass and raging barbarians turned on, I imagine the crown would become a very sought-after artifact.

EDIT: Perhaps the Crown also gives a boost in diplomatic relations with the Clan

Feel free to make any changes you like. I really like your idea, and it was similar to what I had at mind in first, but was wondering if this wasn't too strong.

Something that I have been tinkering with is having promotions purchasable with gold. It would probably translate well with all of these promotions.

This would be sort of cool. You could build a weapon shop (national wonder) where you could purchase various weapons and armor. And as different techs and/or resources are discovered, more expensive and diverse promotions/weapons become available.

Hmm that reminds me of.. hmmm ... oh yes. How about equipping that Warrior with an Axe. Oh now he is an Axeman. And hmm lets give him that new cool weapon there how is it called? Exactly Mace. Lets call him an Maceman now.

It seems like buying better weapons for your units is already in :eek:!! Good work Kael! :goodjob: :D

Chalid - I agree but there is a slight difference.

Currently, its either your civ has Macemen or not.

Having a Mace bearing warrior could be similar to a Maceman, only you couldn't produce any others.

I dont think this is necessary for the game, but it could be an interesting take.

And there could be especial equipment like Axeman whit a especial axe, like one whit 2 edges or something

When it is standard equipment why bother? Simply promote an Axeman on combat I and imagine this represents a two sided axe.

I do not have anything against that proposal at all but there has to be a distinct advantage to justify the work it would take.
So what advantage for example would your two sided axe have? +20 % Strenght? (->Combat I promotion) +1 Raw power? (Stronger unit why not use macemen instead) and so forth. And why would you not equip every unit with that two sided axe if it is better? An when you would equip every unit why not include it in the basic unit?

Just a sidenote: We already have an system that deals out promotions to units that are a kind of equipment: The Heavy and Light promotions for the lurchip Golems. We do not want to reuse that mechanism for all civs as it would rob the lurchip partly of their flavour.

Yeah we considered being very granular with equipment early on. If you had access to the Deer resource you could build a leatherworker that produced Leather. With access to Cotton you could build a Tailor that produced Cloth. With access to Cloth and Leather an armorer could build Leather Vests.

Leather vests would be equiped to all of your units (or bought, or allowed upgraded units). Similiar processes were designed for different sorts of weapons and armor.

In the end it is a really fun system to design but not that fun to play as it causes a lot of micromangement for casual players (though I will admit there is a segment of the players that would love it and if someone did a mod like this it would probably attack a decent group of loyal fans).

So for FfH we decided to keep to a small group of unique artifacts. Any more and its overloaded. I wrote a little about it in the 'Why are you here' letter to the design team when we started phase 2 (the more is worse section).

edit: dang, and I was getting so good at beating Chalid to posts lately. :) Oh and good point about the Luchuirp, that is a better place to work in mechanics like this.

Ya i see your point =D

But a mod like Kael said would be cool =P

Hmm that reminds me of.. hmmm ... oh yes. How about equipping that Warrior with an Axe. Oh now he is an Axeman. And hmm lets give him that new cool weapon there how is it called? Exactly Mace. Lets call him an Maceman now.

It seems like buying better weapons for your units is already in :eek:!! Good work Kael! :goodjob: :D

Heh, I was refering specificaly to the magic items idea. Instead of having them come from a wonder or barb you can discover a tech, then spend 2k gold to have the item place on an existing unit of your chosing.

Amulet of Lifesaving

If worn by the attacker, 100% retreat chance.
If worn by the defender, force the attacker to retreat if the defender is about to die. Make the defender invincible until the beginning of the defender's next turn.

The amulet is destroyed after being activated.

Hmmm....Unique.

Ok. How about a special one on the map resource...warpstone, meteorite...etc...

Claiming this resource would be the only way to produce a legendary weapon,
the dragon lance, only usable by a cavalry unit, and the production would destroy the resource.

The weapon itself would give +%, against dragons, but also have a command ability over dragons, There might be a 33% chance a dragon defeated with the lance actually doesn't die, and instead agrees to bow before the slayer, and the unit is upgraded to the one and only in game dragon knight. With the exception of the egg idea idea I put in the quests thread, but that's another mechanic.

One more quick thought before my lunch is up....

A drop funcion, and pick up function might need to be implemented. Say it's a characteristic of the hero promotion...that way you don't have grunts picking up legendary stuff. Or I guess the grunt could pick it up too, and then become legendary? At any rate this would keep relics from being lost again, as with certain circumstances with Orthus's axe, if that's what you wanted...kind of interesting that the relic might be lost again like the one ring too though...Just my .02

Hammer of the Brokenthane: Only usable by runes of kilmorph (dwarvern hammer- more backround if youd like). If one of your cities is captured/razed, can 'build' the hammer to give to a unit. This hammer gives a % strength increase, as well as a 'frenzy' ability- if the unit with the hammer kills another unit, it becomes enraged (for one turn),the ability to attack again that turn, and iff it kills a unit belonging to the civ that conquered/razed the city, it also regains a movement point. I think it could add to the vengeful spirit of dwarves when wronged/angered, and provides a good way for a weaker civ being invaded to repulse its invaders. -edit- i was finalizing the lore behind the hammer, and another part that could be added to it is the 'passing on' of the hammer. If the bearer dies(the only way to pass it on) it goes to the unit of the next highest experience level. It brings with it all the promotions the prior owner earned with the hammer (the lore includes each bearer of the hammer recording how he/she is wronged, and his/her quest for vengence, and the result thereof).-edit-

Covenant of the Crusader: Sword, must regain from demon? (more backround if you like). Gaining sword puts the new owner of the sword at war with ALL 'evil' religions (ie the veil and overlords) as well as the infernal and calabim civ(maybe evil civs in general?). Losing the sword allows the owner to make peace with evil religions again. This sword grants a HUGE strength percentage bonus against demonic, undead, and religion specific units (such as 'priest' units) of the overlords and the veil, and a large NEGATIVE bonus against 'good' religions (runes, order). Also, owning the sword forces you to have the Order ast the state religion (or lose unit of the sword). If the unit wielding the sword conquers a city, there is a percentage chance that the order spreads to the city (if it is not in the city already). If the city does not convert, it is razed. This could add an interestingcrusade mechanic- civilization/unit made holy champion of Junil to remove the corrupted influence, must continue the holy crusade to retain champion. -edit- or, if the civilization bearing the covenant makes peace with an 'evil' civ, the unit with the covenant becomes a barbarian and attacks its former owner for failing to fulfil the covenant with Junil, representing a punishment for failing the contract - edit-

Gift of the Soul-devourer- (again, more lore backround if youd like) Dagger, must be veil/overlords to use. Early in game- prehaps to whomever founds the veil or overlords? Grants the unit with the dagger the ability to cast all 3 levels of the death, fire, and entropy spheres (maybe others). However, the cost of the power is the soul. Every spell cast either requires a STIFF health penalty (like 50 percent damage, or each successive spell costs more health, eventually killing the unit. damage from casting is unhealable), or can sacrifice a unit in order to allow the spell to be cast (maybe kill a tier one unit to allow sphere I spell, tier two for sphere II and I, et). Maybe allow sacrificing pop to allow casting as well? I think this could fit in well with the 'magic is originaly from demons' attitude- this dagger can give great power, but at great cost to oneself or one's civilization. -edit- maybe multiple tier 1 units (say, 3 tier one units) could be sacrificed for a sphere II spell, 6 for a tier 3 spell, three tier two units for a tier two spell, etc...) - edit-

The crown might yet be "saved" by a slight alteration to the background story. If it was altered so that the orcs did not flee, but instead bowed down to him, aknowledging him as a ruler, it could probably have a somewhat different mechanic.
The crown could then grant the same effect as the Barbarian trait(except the research penalty) to the civ that controls it. They would be at peace with the barbarians as long as one of their units held the crown.

For the Clan and Dolviello leaders which are already at peace with the barbarians, it might have some other effect. Perhaps it could grant them control of a certain % of barbarian units/settlements.

In a game with large landmass and raging barbarians turned on, I imagine the crown would become a very sought-after artifact.

EDIT: Perhaps the Crown also gives a boost in diplomatic relations with the Clan

I like these ideas. Except for the Clan and Doviello, maybe they should just get +20% science to make up for the barb trait loss of science.

"The amulet of learning"

(Can only be used by mage units)

What ever unit has this amulet can copy/learn other units spells when they are attacked by them. (aka Final fantasy style!)

Feel free to edit it however you want if you want to use it.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
"Sword of evil destruction"

(Can only be used by evil civs)

When a unit has this item whenever it attacks it causes collateral damage also.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
"Medallion of training"

Whatever unit has this item gains 1 xp/turn plus an extra xp whenever it whens a battle.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
"Tools of the gods"

Up to 5 workers can use these tools and when they use it they work twice as fast.

Saber of the Sands- Transforms the terrain that the unit is attacking to desert. 50% defense bonus on desert tiles.

Jewel of Incomptence- Item is automatically used when attacking an enemy city. Grants -50% tech research for 40 turns for the infected city.

Elfbane Medallion (can only be obtained by evil civs)- All Elven civs declare war on the owner. All Elven production is reduced by 10%. All Elven resarch is slowed by 5%. All Elven commerce(gold prod.) is reduced by 5%.

[can be exchnaged for other races if needed]

Brutestone Hammer-(only attainable by barbarians) Production is increased by 20%. Research is slowed by 5%. Commerce(gold prod.) is reduced by 5%.

Any idea may be modified if needed.

Here's a mechanic for a cursed item, take and give a story or leave it
Armor of Bravado--Small or moderate combat bonus. When ever this unit is in a stack that is attacked, this will be the unit that defends, despite health and relative strength. Automatically earned by whoever defeats this unit.

Here's a mechanic for a cursed item, take and give a story or leave it
Armor of Bravado--Small or moderate combat bonus. When ever this unit is in a stack that is attacked, this will be the unit that defends, despite health and relative strength. Automatically earned by whoever defeats this unit.

I like this idea. I may steal is as a unit ability. Some Shieldbearer that always defends stacks it is in.

One more quick thought before my lunch is up....

A drop funcion, and pick up function might need to be implemented. Say it's a characteristic of the hero promotion...that way you don't have grunts picking up legendary stuff. Or I guess the grunt could pick it up too, and then become legendary? At any rate this would keep relics from being lost again, as with certain circumstances with Orthus's axe, if that's what you wanted...kind of interesting that the relic might be lost again like the one ring too though...Just my .02

Thats scheduled for "Shadow", when equipment will be implemented.

There's so much variety in the game in terms of spells, wonders, etc. It seems like only 5 or so magic items might seem limiting. Assuming you come up with more than five, how about making whether they actually appear in a game random? I'm assuming they'll start on barbarian units or with guardians in general, so it'll be a matter of either determining at time of trigger or at the start of the game if the item and its guardian actually appear.

Hmmm... The more I think about it, maybe Orthus (and his axe) would seem even more special if he didn't appear in every game. And if his appearance wasn't announced to all the world.


Here's my stab at some magic items:

Instant Fortress-- Creates a fort (or something better) in the square and then disappears. Any unit in the square gets a special ability: Deactivate Fortress-- Fort disappears and the unit gains the item. Usable only in open land squares, not cities. Could destroy improvements on the square.

EDIT-- heck, this item could actually start as a terrain feature.... with lots of baddies in it :)


Book of the Damned-- Used by units with sorcery/channeling. Gives unit "read book" ability. If used, gives a 25% chance of instant death, gives a random spell promotion (maybe from a restricted list, like death, entropy, chaos,...) also gives a 10 % chance of unit being "doomed" every turn the item is carried. (Doomed units have a 10% chance of dying each turn) The extra promotion would be cumulative, and available even to units without the corresponding levels in Sorcery/Channeling (so you could have your new adept read it twice and gain death III) He'd be a stud if he made it to archmage (if he lives that long...*snicker*) You could tinker with the whole doomed thing and make it more ominous-- maybe doomed is a 2% chance of death each turn, carrying it gives you a 10% chance of being doomed, and reading it automatically dooms you. I'd keep the insta death thing though, otherwise it'd be too valuable to a player needing a quick boost for a war.

Hmmm....Unique.

Ok. How about a special one on the map resource...warpstone, meteorite...etc...

Claiming this resource would be the only way to produce a legendary weapon,
the dragon lance, only usable by a cavalry unit, and the production would destroy the resource.

The weapon itself would give +%, against dragons, but also have a command ability over dragons, There might be a 33% chance a dragon defeated with the lance actually doesn't die, and instead agrees to bow before the slayer, and the unit is upgraded to the one and only in game dragon knight. With the exception of the egg idea idea I put in the quests thread, but that's another mechanic.

Another way to do it would be to plant a mythical forge - that, as an extra addition, would require one or several components for an item to be created. It could also be necessary to use a unique hammer for the process as seen in Diablo 2 with Hephastos (completely stolen from the Greek god Hephaistus).

Yeah we considered being very granular with equipment early on. If you had access to the Deer resource you could build a leatherworker that produced Leather. With access to Cotton you could build a Tailor that produced Cloth. With access to Cloth and Leather an armorer could build Leather Vests.

Leather vests would be equiped to all of your units (or bought, or allowed upgraded units). Similiar processes were designed for different sorts of weapons and armor.

In the end it is a really fun system to design but not that fun to play as it causes a lot of micromangement for casual players (though I will admit there is a segment of the players that would love it and if someone did a mod like this it would probably attack a decent group of loyal fans).

So for FfH we decided to keep to a small group of unique artifacts. Any more and its overloaded. I wrote a little about it in the 'Why are you here' letter to the design team when we started phase 2 (the more is worse section).

edit: dang, and I was getting so good at beating Chalid to posts lately. :) Oh and good point about the Luchuirp, that is a better place to work in mechanics like this. Could you not make this configurable in the ini, so that hardcore players could turn it on but it would not effect casual players? This would open the door for a "hardcore patch" that could be applied over the game, with features that could be turned on and off, that dowloads seperatly so that casual players don't have to bother with it. You could get as crazy as you want with options, just litterally go nuts!

Could you not make this configurable in the ini, so that hardcore players could turn it on but it would not effect casual players? This would open the door for a "hardcore patch" that could be applied over the game, with features that could be turned on and off, that dowloads seperatly so that casual players don't have to bother with it. You could get as crazy as you want with options, just litterally go nuts!

Yes, but its a lot of coding for a feature that only a portion of the community would use. As compared to going through and making the dwarven civ more interesting, which everyone would appreicate.

Heres an expansion of an idea:
Instead of magic items as promotions that are passed on to the unit that kills the bearer immeadiatly, you could 'capture' the weapon like you capture slaves or animals. The weapon could appear floating with an aura in the center of the tile it is spawned in (kinda like a fireball), be immobile, and have an ability that 'equips' the item to a unit, granting the promotion, as well as granting to ability to 'deequip' spawning the equip again. This could also allow you to build 'artifact weapons' as legendary units. A more developed version of the other guys idea.
This could also be used to grand temporary items, Items that give a promotion or effect for a limmited durration and don't respawn.

Heres an expansion of an idea:
Instead of magic items as promotions that are passed on to the unit that kills the bearer immeadiatly, you could 'capture' the weapon like you capture slaves or animals. The weapon could appear floating with an aura in the center of the tile it is spawned in (kinda like a fireball), be immobile, and have an ability that 'equips' the item to a unit, granting the promotion, as well as granting to ability to 'deequip' spawning the equip again. This could also allow you to build 'artifact weapons' as legendary units. A more developed version of the other guys idea.
This could also be used to grand temporary items, Items that give a promotion or effect for a limmited durration and don't respawn.

Yeah, thats the plan for the equipment class that will be created in "Shadow".

some ideas... yes, some already are in spells....

Staff of mobility.
Allows bearer to transport a single unit (of lesser strength/level?) that is located in the same tile, to any location within <bearers level/strength> number of tiles.

Necklace of the Lich King.
Allows bearer to drain 10% health from each unit in the same tile. Bearer gains +5% attack for each 10% drawn. Only usable when Bearers attack is <= normal max.

Ring of Stone.
All units in the same tile get -2 movement but gain the Stoneskin advantage when used.

Staff of retribution.
When used will destroy 75% of units in targetted tile (no save) by quantity (ie, 4 units in the city, 3 get destroyed - no xp gain though). Will also destroy the same number of bearers units (randomly selected across civilization). (Ouch).

Knurled Nut of Scape
When used will transform bearer into an armoured figure with +150% attack. However, after use, even if bearer survives combats, strength is reduced TO 10% of normal.

Globe of Pain
When used will inflict 25% damage to all units in bearers tile. Each turn effect will spread outwards. Can only be used once while effect is in progress (ie, it will travel around the world effecting EVERY unit).

Sword of equality.
Bearer selects tile to be effected. All units in the tile are averaged to the same strength.

[QUOTE=Xanikk999
"Sword of evil destruction"

(Can only be used by evil civs)

When a unit has this item whenever it attacks it causes collateral damage also.
.[/QUOTE]

I think the name is a little confusing.

Globe of Pain
When used will inflict 25% damage to all units in bearers tile. Each turn effect will spread outwards. Can only be used once while effect is in progress (ie, it will travel around the world effecting EVERY unit).

I really like this idea. It could go around the entire world as a ring like a shockwave effect. Maybe it could get weaker and eventually die out. Or maybe just the opposite, and it could become an armegeddon wonder or equipment that will infinitely keep going around the world and maybe even getting stronger until the game ends, or until another counter wonder or equipment stops it.

Mjolnir

if a unit equipped with the mjolnir defeats a unit in a stack, all the units suffer movement penalty as per entangling spell
also maybe allow for collateral damage upto 10%

Tenebrin's Stave (the eclipse)
Flavah: Tenebrin was a great mage who once cast a spell so mighty it blotted out the sun for miles around. He traded his mortal soul and flesh for the stuff of shadow, it both weakened him and gave him extrordinary rejuvanative powers. The fucus of both of those spells was his staff. It is unique in all the world, coposed of intertwining strands of magically solidified shadows. When grasped it casts the spells of Tenebrin upon the wielder.
Game effect: something like -20% strength, +20% healing rate for equipped unit. this unit, and all friendly cities/improvements/units within one square of it are covered by fog of war, even within enemy cultural borders.

I don't know if this has been suggested or not (I'm assuming it hasn't as everyone seems to like elves so much), but how about a sword that gives +20% combat against elves and immunity to all nature magic? maybe it could spread a certain religion while in leaves land aswell (ofcourse it would be restricted to that religion). You could probably think of a backstory for this sword...

Another idea I have is for an ancient bounty hunter armour set, scattered around the lands (probably barbarians)... Origin: probably Hippus. Every piece could make the user insane with power and eventually become a barbarian (unless maybe you could add a new feature to the game, loyalty). If the user is loyal enough, he will overcome his insanity and will be upgraded to a hero (not one that can be build in a city). If not, well he'll become a barbarian. Maybe every time a piece changes hands it could gain some sort of upgrade (if possible, 1/3 of it by religion 1/3 by race and 1/3 by civ)...

I'll make a more organized list of items when I get back from school...

Hi Kael, the Team, Everybody,

An idea for an item. It could be either defensive or offensive. His name :" XXX of Decay and Power"
The idea is that every time you earn 1 xp you loose definitly 1 HP. The more experienced you become, the weaker you are. The item eats your mind, flesh,....
So, his power should be strong enough to be attractive.
I don't write anything about what this power could be, it depend on what is the item (sword, helmet, ring,...)
OMI, an helmet could be a good item. Close to the brain, ready to burn the soul,....
I hope you understand my idea.

The Frog.

Oh i like this idea, but you could heal up the loss to survive.

Wait, what is teh advantage of this awesome item?

What if it gave you access to mind spells, dimensional spells, and entropy spells?

Oh i like this idea, but you could heal up the loss to survive.

Wait, what is teh advantage of this awesome item?

What if it gave you access to mind spells, dimensional spells, and entropy spells?

Loki1232,

Pleased to read that you like.:D

The MAIN idea is: for each xp you earn you loose DEFINITIVELY/PERMANENTLY one HP.
I don't know if it is possible. Does the game allow a unit to have less that 100 HP definitively ?

About the advantage, as you write it must be awesome. At that time, i have no idea. It depends on what is the item....
e.g: "Helmet of Decay and Power" +25% strenght, gives your unit Dragon,elf,dwarf,orc,giant,demon Slaying. It's just an idea....

The Frog

Well recently we've been working on ways to reduce a unit's base strength, and that would work perfectly here.

Loki1232,

I forget one thing.

As an old RPG gamemaster , i usually saw powerful items that makes players too strong, too reckless/foolhardy. I rather prefer using this kind of item: powerful, awesome but dangerous to use. Each time you use it, you become both stronger and weaker. You have to think about what would happen to your body/mind health before using it.
I hope your understand my poor english and what i mean.

The Frog.

Here's some ideas along the same lines
Phoenix Feather Ring- gives you immortal promtion whenever you use it, but at the same time lowers str by 1.5.
Mask of Allure that gives a unit command but lowers str by 1 with each win, eventually killing the unit.
Boots of Salvation--allow warping to any allied city but remove one point of movement.

I doubt that we'll replicate that mechanic more than once, but these are quite good ideas.

Fists of Corruption - +15% Offence, receives gold from each kill (if possible) and immune to Law spells (see below).
-> The flaw: Massive increase of the chance for that unit to join another civilization, units with the any of the Law nodes won't be able to use the gloves (they will still be able to carry the gloves).

Summoning Staff (or something) - Gives the units the summoning promotion (and maybe a random magic type mastery), increases strength of summoned unit, summoned units last longer.

I actually really like the staff of summoning. What if it could be broken like a spellstaff to allow two summons that turn?

I actually really like the staff of summoning. What if it could be broken like a spellstaff to allow two summons that turn?

Since there would only be one summoning staff, it could just allow multiple summons per turn... Like an Orthus' Axe for summoners.

As for Fists of Corruption, maybe there could be an item to balance it out, like:
Insignia of Loyalty - Doesn't allow unit to change civ, +15% defense in civ territory.

I've got another idea (I suggested this for 0.8ish, don't really remember):
Untitled Item - Unit can open the Portal of (Untitled).
-> Requirements: Unit must have Dimensional I, Sorcery and Channeling III.
The portal will be a resource, only 1 will be spawned around the globe (like a resource wonder). Closed, the portal will give +2 culture/turn when citizens work on it. Each religion will receive a different bonus when the portal is open (other than the spawning allied demons, dragons, ghost warriors, treants, drowns or... well I can't think of one for Runes, even though I usually play them ^^).

I'm not a FfH expert by any means, but I'll just suggest an idea that's been bouncing around in my head. There's a few different aspects of it that you may or may not see as particularly useful, so I'll separate them out.


Part 1-
At game start, a few linked magic items (probably four or five) spawn scattered around the world. These items would be named for the components of a set of combat gear, like Helm of Might, Mail of Might, Greaves of Might, Blade of Might, that sort of thing.

As I imagine it, this equipment would utilize the equip/unequip system mentioned above (I think it's a good system for all magic items, if you can implement it), and would provide quite powerful bonuses to a particular unit, perhaps based on whatever piece of equipment it is (so the Helm might grant +150% XP, or the Greaves might add a couple of movement points, that sort of thing).

Part 2-
This is where it gets interesting. This equipment would be "linked," in such a way as to provide big benefits to a unit that has more than one equipped. Now, I don't know if you would want there to be a big bonus for having two or three of the equipment pieces at once (so having the Helm and Greaves would provide a third bonus quite apart from +150 XP and a couple of extra movement points), but I think that having them all should give an additional bonus.

Perhaps this bonus could be akin to the ability that heroes have to respawn at the capital (with all the equipment), maybe it could add an additional ability (summoning dragons, teleportation, an armageddon ability, etc.), or it could even enhance the abilities that the equipment already gives (+300% XP, +4 movement points, etc.). In any case, one would have to travel all over the world to gather all of these equipments, so they should be rewarded accordingly.

Part 3-
This feature I'm a little bit less sure about, but you might be able to make use of it. It seems silly that such incredible might can change hands with such small fanfare as the outcome of a fight, so maybe more apocalyptic consequences could happen when the wielder of these legendary equipments is defeated.

If destruction of the surrounding landscape was to accompany the defeat of an equipment wielder, it would probably be scaled to the amount of equipments that the unit was wielding. The amount and type of destruction, of course, is up to you, but I just thought this aspect might be worth considering.

Part 4-
It might be a good idea to scale the amount of these equipments to either the size of the map or the number of players on the map. Of course, the criteria for having a "complete set" would be just having all of the pieces on the map, not having an absolute amount of pieces. I'd think that it would be safe to have there be either one piece of equipment for each player, or to have there be as many pieces of equipment as the default number of players for a map size.

You might also want to consider having the equipments located quite close to the capital cities of the players, should the number of players equal the number of equipment pieces. Of course, as this mod is based on exploration and adventures outside the borders of civilization, you might also consider placing them quite far away, or even in inhospitable terrain, with guard creatures perhaps.

Part 5-
Some might consider this last point a minor one, but I think it may have quite an impact on the game. How should this equipment be revealed? Furthermore, how should it be collected? On one hand, you could have the pieces be visible and collectable from the start, which would lead to the first Civ that finds the item generally owning it. However, it might be interesting to make it different.

You would have to decide if one technology would make all of the equipment visible (which might mean that they should all be of roughly equal power), or if different techs revealed different equipments (which would mean that some could be more advanced than others). You would also have to decide whether the equipments could be collected as soon as they were visible, or if they could only be collected after researching a second tech. Also, you might want to make it so that a worker would have to build a specific improvement on top of the equipment to obtain it (which would mean that the Civ might have to expand a bit to obtain it, and would also help ensure that no single Civ gets too many too early).


I know this is a lot of text to read, but please consider these ideas, and please also leave feedback. I look forward to getting replies! :D

This is not so much of a magic item, but, well, could be interesting in play...

Instruments and Clothing of the Bard:

Description: Throughout some societies it is very common for travelers to come across several bards throughout their journey. Bards are quite typically seen as good commonfolk who provide a valuable respite to the days journey. Since the idea of a bard who has any sort of prowess in battle stikes many as borderline absurd, the only fear that Bards strike in the hearts of their customers is that of potentially being overcharged and possibly having a few minor items go missing.

While it is unclear whether this general understanding has been exploited for strategic purposes, one occasionally hears rumors of armies that wake up one morning after a good night of listening to bards playing their instruments only to find that the good musicians have disappeared, leaving only a few lyres to try to learn to play for they can do little to stop the burning of their encampment and the inevitable downfall of their military careers when inquiries are made from their commanders on the matter.

Mechanics:

Can only be used by a unit that could concievably pass for a group of Bards (Adepts, yes. Drown, no. for example)
The unit with the item may use the item at any time. Once used, the unit will be considered as "in bard disguise" until the unit attacks another or the unit is detected in another manner.
The benefits below only work in a "Bard-friendly civilization". (A Bard in Orc lands, for example, is more properly referred to as "Lunch".) If in a Bard-hostile civilization territory, the unit is automatically detected.

Has a 1% chance of being detected every turn in enemy territory.
Has a 25% chance of being detected every turn within the city radius of an enemy city. (More people, more questions)
+10% chances for each for every bard detected within that civilization's territory within the last 20 turns. (More "bards" uncovered, less trust for bards)

Benefits:
May move freely within territory of Bard-friendly civilizations.
Invisible to Bard-friendly civilizations until discovered.
May attack an enemy unit using several bonus first strikes (Losing the bard disguise and afterwards being detected, obviously)

cloack of multiplicity.

generates 2 "copies" of the weilding character. the two copies appear as the same unit that have the full moves used up. if attacked they dissappear with no damage to attaker, but 1 attack move used up. at beginning of next round they dissapear.

useful when either attacking larg stack with only that unit (???) or when trying to escape from almost certain death.

Amulate of Fertility. :)

increases Food production by +1 per worked tile already producing food in units current city. (could be applied to commerse and shields as well in diff items.)(if negative is needed then lower to 1/2 per tile or even have it +1food and -1prod)

on a top class unit it might bring in the dual desire of having it in right city as opposed to attacking an enemy.

Sandals of Sucellus' Stride

Possessing this item grants the holder the following ability: When activated/worn, the Sandals give the wearer a move of 7 and the ability to ignore terrain costs. However, the wearer no longer benefits from roads, and each plot traveled damages the wearer by a small percentage of base health (due to the strain on the wearer's legs/groin from all those giant steps.

Alternatively, ditch the damage per plot traveled with sandals activated, and replace it with a chance of a "misstep" causing massive damage when the sandals are used.

Fleece of Gold (Yes, it is the Golden Fleece)
This impressive magical item, is mainly a status symbol, which the hero who has it made a legendary adventure to acquiure it.
You would have to have access to gold, trade and a Great Bard. The Great Bard get's sacrificed in making the Golden Fleece.
When a character equips the fleece, he is viewed as a charismatic champion and great hero. Any living units that he defeats in battle have a..... let's say 5% chance of joining the army of the fleece-wearer. If this doesn't happen, then part of the unit still join with the hero. After defeating 4 or 5 enemies, a basic unit of any living type is created with one random promotion.

I think it has the chance to be a powerful item, is defiantly a fun one, but it does require the sacrifice of a great bard to create in the first place.

My 2c for how I feel. Not guaranteed to please anyone else. :P

Everflowing Bottle - A special unit produced by a wonder. If activated all units adjacent to the bottle square are destroyed, and the terrain become coast.
This might be a good one (and must be a one off use item!) because it can be used to negate the effect of uber powerful units such as Mishabbur of Dis and the Mithril Golem (by one off insta-kill).

BTW I liked the first response's storyline for the crown of Ishawhatsit. That item seems reasonable too.


This idea I like. I may include some sort of item that makes you unable to be attacked by creatures of a certain alignment or type. Hmm..Good idea (but you probably shouldn't be able to attack them asymmetrically!)!


edit: dang, and I was getting so good at beating Chalid to posts lately. Oh and good point about the Luchuirp, that is a better place to work in mechanics like this.Good point again, it might be good to have one civ that is about these micromanagement things (to cater for that segment of fans who particularly like this style) - but it still has the problem of confusing the casual gamer as you said.

Sword of equality.
Bearer selects tile to be effected. All units in the tile are averaged to the same strength.
Like it - one off use though?


I really like this idea. It could go around the entire world as a ring like a shockwave effect. Maybe it could get weaker and eventually die out. Or maybe just the opposite, and it could become an armegeddon wonder or equipment that will infinitely keep going around the world and maybe even getting stronger until the game ends, or until another counter wonder or equipment stops it.
Interesting possible modifications to the original idea. Sounds promising.

this unit, and all friendly cities/improvements/units within one square of it are covered by fog of war, even within enemy cultural borders.
Also sounds interesting!

Boots of Salvation--allow warping to any allied city but remove one point of movement.Could be useful as a defensive tool if you have a really powerful defender you want to give the ability to instantly move to any other city in your (large) empire when it comes under attack.


Since there would only be one summoning staff, it could just allow multiple summons per turn... Like an Orthus' Axe for summoners.
Could be quite good but would it be too much of an overlap with the summoning staff?


I just posted initially to say I liked the first idea and then I just kept seeing other ones I liked and kept on saying so! :P

Could be useful as a defensive tool if you have a really powerful defender you want to give the ability to instantly move to any other city in your (large) empire when it comes under attack.


Could be quite good but would it be too much of an overlap with the summoning staff?

hmmm...? I think he meant the summoning staff.

hmmm...? I think he meant the summoning staff.

I did... ^^

I hate the fact that evil in the late game is so powerful, yet there are no equally powerful good units (heroes) to counter them. Especially the four horsemen and the avatar of wrath are so wickedly overpowered that you have to sacrifice dozens of smaller units to be a match for them. I think it is just unfair to have such an imbalance favoring evil in the late game and I would love to see some kind of powerful (but hard to get) counter to be implemented. The below items serve this purpose.


1. Bronze Blade of Divine Retribution

- Available after the Blight (AC = 40)
- Requires Good alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +2 Physical Combat
- +20% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear

This weapon can be built by a good civ when the AC goes above the aforementioned value. It will act like a World unit, so only 1 can be built. Also a civilization that has already built one of these weapons loses the ability to build the other two.
* Requires Enchantment Mana, Copper
* 1000 Hammers

---

2. Iron Blade of Divine Retribution

- Available after the first horseman appears (AC = 60)
- Requires Good alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +4 Physical Combat
- +40% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear, Disease

This weapon can be built by a good civ when the AC goes above the aforementioned value. It will act like a World unit, so only 1 can be built. Also a civilization that has already built one of these weapons loses the ability to build the other two.
* Requires Enchantment Mana, Iron
* 5000 Hammers

---

3. Mithril Blade of Divine Retribution

- Available after Hellfire appears (AC = 70)
- Requires Good alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +6 Physical Combat
- +60% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear, Disease, Plague, Wither

This weapon can be built by a good civ when the AC goes above the aforementioned value. It will act like a World unit, so only 1 can be built. Also a civilization that has already built one of these weapons loses the ability to build the other two.
* Requires Enchantment Mana, Mithril
* 10000 Hammers

These items would work well with broader alignment (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=270553).

First of all, the Horsemen and the Avatar aren't evil. They're barbarian, and will just as happily destroy the Sheaim as the Elohim. They go after whoever happens to be nearby.

Second of all, Good civs should be working to LOWER the AC anyway, so if the AC is in the 70s+, they've failed. Also, it's dark fantasy. The world is supposed to end.

Third, the Horsemen and the Avatar are supposed to be powerful. They're embodiments of the fears of the Gods, not just some random guy on a horse. They're supposed to be able to slaughter armies and leave nothing but destruction in their wake. Read the event text, it gives a good idea of the effect they're supposed to accomplish.

Fourth, for 5000 hammers you can build what, 20 champions? 20 champions will easily bring down any of the Horsemen, and with a few promotions and buffs can take down the Avatar. Hell, if you can spare 5000 hammers of production for a fairly weak piece of equipment, you've already won anyway.

Fifth, Sphener, Chalid Astrakein, and the Mithril Golem are all more than capable of taking on the Horsemen with a decent chance of success. Same goes for many of the Civ heroes. The Horsemen are only ~30 strength. Also, you could just use Cavalry with Flanking promotions to weaken them. Flanking III Horse Archers are like 85% withdrawal.

First of all, the Horsemen and the Avatar aren't evil. They're barbarian, and will just as happily destroy the Sheaim as the Elohim. They go after whoever happens to be nearby.

Well lore-wise they are evil demons trying to bring the creation to an end in their own little way, aren't they? But you are right, balance-wise it may not be fair to provide only the Good civs with a chance to fight them off, so here you go:

4. Bronze Reaper of Hellfire

- Available after the Blight (AC = 40)
- Requires Evil alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +2 Physical Combat
- +20% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear

* Requires Enchantment Mana, Copper
* 1000 Hammers

---

5. Iron Reaper of Hellfire

- Available after the first horseman appears (AC = 60)
- Requires Evil alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +4 Physical Combat
- +40% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear, Disease

* Requires Enchantment Mana, Iron
* 3000 Hammers

---

6. Mithril Reaper of Hellfire

- Available after the last horseman appears (AC = 70)
- Requires Evil alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +6 Physical Combat
- +60% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear, Disease, Plague, Wither

* Requires Enchantment Mana, Mithril
* 5000 Hammers

---

7. Bronze Warhammer of Balance

- Available after the Blight (AC = 40)
- Requires Neutral alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +2 Physical Combat
- +20% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear

* Requires Enchantment Mana, Copper
* 1000 Hammers

---

8. Iron Warhammer of Balance

- Available after the first horseman appears (AC = 60)
- Requires Neutral alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +4 Physical Combat
- +40% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear, Disease

* Requires Enchantment Mana, Iron
* 3000 Hammers

---

9. Mithril Warhammer of Balance

- Available after the last horseman appears (AC = 70)
- Requires Neutral alignment to be equipped
- Can only be used by units with the Hero promotion
- +6 Physical Combat
- +60% against Demons, Undead
- Immune to Fear, Disease, Plague, Wither

* Requires Enchantment Mana, Mithril
* 5000 Hammers

Second of all, Good civs should be working to LOWER the AC anyway, so if the AC is in the 70s+, they've failed. Also, it's dark fantasy. The world is supposed to end.

The thing is, why are the evil civs trying to raise the AC if it will bring on their destruction as well? I understand why the Sheaim do it, but the others? If the AC gets sky high, it is not only the good civs that will suffer. Wouldn't it add some flavor if there is some extraordinary way of fighting back when faced with utter destruction at the hands of the apocalypse?

Third, the Horsemen and the Avatar are supposed to be powerful. They're embodiments of the fears of the Gods, not just some random guy on a horse. They're supposed to be able to slaughter armies and leave nothing but destruction in their wake. Read the event text, it gives a good idea of the effect they're supposed to accomplish.

I understand and agree with this completely. They are supposed to do exactly that, but what do the civilizations of life and creation do to oppose this scenario? Wouldn't it be logical if this massive destruction raised some kind of reaction from the living world as well?

Fourth, for 5000 hammers you can build what, 20 champions? 20 champions will easily bring down any of the Horsemen, and with a few promotions and buffs can take down the Avatar. Hell, if you can spare 5000 hammers of production for a fairly weak piece of equipment, you've already won anyway.

The costs are just what I think they should be, they surely need to be tested and modified. Still I changed the costs of bronze, iron and mithril versions to 1000, 3000 and 5000 respectively, agreeing with what you say.

Fifth, Sphener, Chalid Astrakein, and the Mithril Golem are all more than capable of taking on the Horsemen with a decent chance of success. Same goes for many of the Civ heroes. The Horsemen are only ~30 strength. Also, you could just use Cavalry with Flanking promotions to weaken them. Flanking III Horse Archers are like 85% withdrawal.

The horsemen can get promotions, I think (at least the pedia says they can). Imagine a Combat V Avatar of Wrath against our puny, unpromoted Mithril Golem. Yes, of course one could use a lot of strategies to deal with the horsemen. It is not really about that, it is about watching the civs actually do something spectacular against the impending doom. The weapons are just something quick that came to mind for this purpose.

The real problem with these items is that they would require some SDK work to program the AI for utilizing them (wouldn't they?). This is a major problem since I've recently read a post by Kael saying they weren't doing any SDK work anymore.

crusader's blade-
+ 1 first strike chance
gives a chance at the effect of the immortal promotion, while blessed
+10% attack with honour
+10% defense with loyalty

magic bauble: a trinket from another era
immune to charm
+15% magic resistance
can be used as per a spellstaff

also, make the effect of that demon who hurt everyone around him into a crown or something

crusader's blade-
+ 1 first strike chance
gives a chance at the effect of the immortal promotion, while blessed
+10% attack with honour
+10% defense with loyalty

magic bauble: a trinket from another era
immune to charm
+15% magic resistance
can be used as per a spellstaff

also, make the effect of that demon who hurt everyone around him into a crown or something

Kael said that he's not going to do small, common items. You'd have to add these in a modmod

excalibur-
+ 1 first strike
gives a chance at the effect of the immortal promotion, while blessed
+25% attack with honour
+25% defense with loyalty


Leech crystal
steals 2 hp per turn from creatures in the tile
+10% magic resistance
immune to xp drain
sacrifice an artifact to gain a free promotion


also, you could make the effect of that demon who hurt everyone around him into a crown or something


Kael said that he's not going to do small, common items. You'd have to add these in a modmod
i meant them to be unique, i just didn't have any good names (excalibur seems cliche)

A few more ideas:

----------------------------------------

Banner of Hope
“This relic has appeared through the ages always seeming to be found in the places where hope was failing. It’s appearance would inspire the folk to renew their struggle against all odds.”

Grants wielder +2 Strength and +4 First Strikes.
Wielder can cast Hope.
If owning civilization ever has more than twice the score of another civilization, the Banner of Hope vanishes, to appear a few turns later in the capital of a weaker civilization.

----------------------------------------

Mirror of Knowledge
“One has only to gaze into the Mirror of Knowledge to glimpse traces of the thoughts and inspirations of a world of people.”

+50% research towards any technology that has already been discovered by any player.

----------------------------------------

Befouled Raiment
“Some say evil has an aura to it. Some say it can infect all around it. Some even say inanimate objects can be affected if the evil is strong enough. Worn by a dozen of the Age of Magic’s most powerful liches, these robes hold but a shadow of their former enchantment. They hold all of their masters' evil.”

Grants Wielder +1 death strength.
Any space the wearer enters is changed to hell terrain.
The wearer gains a spell that can be cast when standing on any food resource. When cast the resource is permanently destroyed.

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Tome of the Universal Fabric
“This thick tome holds magical secrets never imagined. The entirety of creation, it claims, is simply woven and bound magical energy. With the right knowledge and rituals, this magic can be released.”

An arcane unit using the Tome gains a spell that can be cast when standing on any food resource. It has a five turn delay and when completed the spell permanently changes the resource into a raw mana node. However the caster has a chance of undoing himself and the tome as the magic is released, destroying them both (30% chance for adapt, 20% for mage, 10% for archmage).

Apocryphal Tiara of Kyorlin

Unearthed near the wastes of the Letum Frigius, Fudeltice the Sage not only claimed that this item had been worn by Kyorlin himself, but that it had survived his final battle with Mulcarn and was now infused with Kyorlin's own powerful magical essence. While this idea (along with Fudeltice’s many other wild claims) has long been widely discredited, no one can deny the aura of powerful raw magic swirling around this mysterious item. Many adventurous souls have withered away and gone berserk trying to tame the tiara's powers. The few strong enough to have survived and to have wielded, albeit briefly, the magical energies of the tiara, reported being followed by a strange ominous shadow shortly before disappearing, leaving only the tiara behind. Efforts to remove the tiara, short of removing the head itself, have been unsuccessful in the past.

Trigger, appearance and equipment:
1. Becomes visible and acquirable 2-5 tiles away from the Letum Frigius in a random passable terrain after one non-AI player discovers sorcery (i.e. it does not appear at all without the Letum Frigius improvement on the map).
2. Its appearance is announced to all players (like and event).
3. Can be worn by any unit but can only be "removed" by the death of the unit (recreated on the tile where the unit died).
4. Marked by the “Apocryphal Tiara of Kyorlin” promotion/tag.

Effects when equipped:
1. User gets the Channeling I, II and III promotion. The Unit still has to gain experience to upgrade and gain the spells his civilization has access to (although the effect could also be nerfed to only grant Channeling I and II).
2. User gets the enraged promotion (removed after combat).
3. User gets the weak promotion (permanent).
4. 50% chance that a unique hostile Lich with death I, II, III, Chaos I, II, III and Mind I, II, III promotions appears ready for combat on the closest available tile (to reclaim the tiara). This effect only triggers when first equipped by a unit and if the Lich is not already present in the game. Therefore, there is a risk of the Lich reappearing every time a new unit equips the tiara (if the Lich is not already present in the game).
5. 2% chance that a unique hostile Lich with death I, II, III, Chaos I, II, III and Mind I, II, III promotions may appear on any given turn ready for combat (again, if the Lich is not already present in the game).


Some Strategic Pros
1. Another archmage-level caster with the physical attributes of whichever unit you used to upgrade.
2. Might be specially useful for civilizations which cannot build archmages.
3. The risk of the Lich appearing must be considered by the player wearing the item at all times, therefore adding some flavor.
4. Might allow divine casters to have access to more than their default magic spheres.

Some Strategic/Flavor Cons:
1. Do we really need/want another available spellcaster?
2. Potentially allowing dwarves and barbarian civilizations to have one advanced spell caster goes against their unique design, albeit it is only a “small” exception.
3. Might allow divine casters to have access to more than their default magic spheres. (Although the Govannon “train sphere” spell also does that.)
4. Although it would not be a problem for demons, it also seems a little anathematic to allow animals, boats, catapults, summons, golems wearing the tiara and casting spells. On the other hand, allowing only alive units to wear it would not allow infernals to use it.

Any change/nerf/suggestion is welcomed. If the FFH team is interested, the story of the tiara could also be fleshed out and more details on the “owner” of the tiara added. Oh, and please forgive any English mistakes I might have made.

Bordsen's Flask
[from history 301 at the University of Midgar]
Bordsen was a legendary pirate from the age of magik, who was famous for always fighting after drinking from his seemingly endless flask. While he always won the duels (except for the last one see pg. 538) how he won was never the same, sometimes the booze would make him unhumanly strong, other times his drunken stumbles would set off a chain of events culminating in a freak accident which led to his oppenents demise (see pg. 672 for the infamous wallaby incident). The bottle is known to have been passed around from lanun captain to captain for the past 200 years, but its current location in unknown.

unit gains ability "drink from flask" - can be used then item respaws at random location on map
50% chance that it randomly gives unit any number of the following promotions enraged, weak, strong ect.
25% chance that unit vanishes for 1-5 turns and wakes up in a random location on map with a killer hangover
25% chance that unit gets projectile vomit and does fire damage to all surrounding units

The scrolls..

A series of magic items that are of various power and increase the rate arcane and disciple units gain xp..

Slightly off topic, but I'd like Kael and Co to consider adding 1-handed+shield and two handed weapons promos. Similar to ships, have a unit in the city be allowed to re-outfit itself with different equipment. The idea then is a 1h+shield adds to both defense and offense (+x/+x), while a 2h weapon adds purely to offense (+1.5x/+0). I think having 2x the normal bonus might be a bit too good, hence the 1.5x recommendation. Iron would be +3/+0, mithril would be +6/+0.

Also, weapon damage types (slash/pierce/blunt) and armor type (leather/chain/plate) could allow for more customization of units. Each damage type gives a ~+20% bonus vs one corresponding armor type, and maybe ~-20% vs a different armor type (blunt vs leather/slash vs chain/pierce vs plate). Instead of axemen/swordsmen/macemen, some more generic warrior-esque nomenclature be used. Similar to above, in a city each unit could change its gear out individually (weapons only, armor type is inherent to the unit). I know this can be a micro-management nightmare, but each unit could come with default equipment.

which is the bloodiest cult-like angel, demon, creature...

I'm not a FfH expert by any means, but I'll just suggest an idea that's been bouncing around in my head. There's a few different aspects of it that you may or may not see as particularly useful, so I'll separate them out.


Part 1-
At game start, a few linked magic items (probably four or five) spawn scattered around the world.

Going off on a tangent form this suggestion, what if there was victory based on gathering up items?

In particularly I'm thinking on the lines of their being 21 Tablets/Orbs representing each of the Angels.

These would be scattered across the world but would start the game invisible, and will remain that way unless either being carried as an item or upon completion of a National Wonder (Temple of the Orbs...or some such?!).

This Wonder would initially reveal the Orbs/Tablets that the Nations Palace has an affinity for (So most nations will reveal 3 Orbs, Hippus perhaps 2 +1 random one)

Other Orbs would remain hidden - but by a unit carrying an Orb he/she has a chance to see other Orbs* - that chance growing with each Orb that they carry.

*NB would only be revealed if in normal visual site

So if a unit has a single Orb there would be perhaps a 10% chance that it will reveal the location of a hidden orb. As said before, an orb carried as an item would be visible (or at least you could see that a unit is carrying it as an item)

However, the Orb would have an increasingly detrimental effect on a unit carrying them - perhaps;
1 Orb: -1 strength
3 Orbs: -1 hit point per turn
7 Orbs: the unit location is revealed to all with the Temple of the Orbs
21 Orbs: reveals location to all whether they have a Temple or not.

A minimum of 7 Orbs would be required to see the Orbs for those Angels with no accompanying mana (creation and a couple of others?)

Upon collecting 21 Orbs - and returning to the Temple of Orbs - the carrying unit would be able to Cast a spell. This would take 10-20 turns to complete, during which time the unit would be immobile and all other nations would be informed.

I'm thinking on the lines that if successfull then the castor is perhaps summoning the One

Sounds more like a victory condition.

PK crystal
+30% vs living creatures
after fighting a creature, one of the following may happen:
can gain level 1 magic or combat promotion from the foe
can gain knowledge of a nearby enemy city (as per the spy effect)
can light up nearby enemy territory, and reveal hidden units.(as per hawk/ranger hybrid)
can convert enemy mercenary

I always liked the idea of the "training tomes" in DnD. The ones that your character could study and gain a point of strength, or what have you.

What really makes something like that neat, now, is that the mechanics are already in the game.

If you added an option to "Bring the tomes back to the capital" to the event popup about finding ancient knowledge in the desert/ruins. Then you could spawn a book item.

The player would then pick it up, and cast the spell, which would open up a conversation giving him a list of free promotions. He would choose one, then the book would go away. To simulate the training, you could have the delayed fire and make it take 4-5 turns before he could move again.

Some examples of promotions:

Heroic strength I
Heroic defense I
All the trait promotions (say, an Elohim ranger being able to take the commando promotion)
The racial slaying promotions could be brought back

The idea is that the promotion would be a "top tier" sort of thing for an average character. You could even expand it to creating the Lost scrolls, that give a tier III spell to an arcane character that uses (ie, from a sphere he doesn't already have). It would just a neat little way to have some radical diversity in units.

It does sort of work similar to the mutate spell. The difference being that it the player is in control of what happens as opposed to it being random. Plus, the RP factor is pretty cool. And, because they are one-shot, one-unit deals...you're not really going to overpower anything if you increase the spawn rate.

As an aside...

I also always liked the idea that if my normal unit killed a hero unit, it got the heroic promotion. :)

Here is my idea:

Embrace of the Overlords

Description: An unadorned silver circlet. When worn, the user is filled with the voice of the deep.

Effects:
Adds: Religion (Octopus Overlords)
Adds: Evangelist (Octopus Overlords)
Adds: Water Walking
Use: Transports the bearer from any ocean tile to any other visible ocean tile. (5 turn cooldown)


This could maybe even be a quest reward whenever you implement those.

I always liked the idea of the "training tomes" in DnD. The ones that your character could study and gain a point of strength, or what have you.

To expand on the idea that I presented above:

Tome of Battle

1. Grant 20 XP
2. Extra Attack (when carried)
3. Heroic Strength I (to city_attack unit)
4. Orc Slaying
5. Collateral Damage +10%

Tome of Defense

1. Heroic Defense I
2. Guardsmen Promotion (when carried)
3. Grant 20 XP
4. Teleport between cities
5. Build unique wonder that gives +30% defense to city

The Siege Tome

1. Grant 20 XP
2. City Attack I (to non city_attack unit)
3. Bombard +20%
4. Shadow Walk (when carried)
5. build unique wonder that gives seige weapons +2 XP

Tome of Nature God guy

1. Grant 20 XP
2. Commando
3. Double movement in forests/jungles (when carried)
4. Bloom (recon unit)
5. build unique wonder that gives +1 happy per forest in cross

Tome of Ancient Arcana

1. Grant 20 XP
2. Grant random tier 3 spell
3. Heroic Defense I (when carried)
4. Escape
5. Build unique wonder that adds +30% research



Just a couple of ideas.

Here is my idea:

Embrace of the Overlords

Description: An unadorned silver circlet. When worn, the user is filled with the voice of the deep.

Effects:
Adds: Religion (Octopus Overlords)
Adds: Evangelist (Octopus Overlords)
Adds: Water Walking
Use: Transports the bearer from any ocean tile to any other visible ocean tile. (5 turn cooldown)


This could maybe even be a quest reward whenever you implement those.

Possibly there could be 1 special item per religion (ie 7 items total) and they each have a e.g. 10% chance to spawn on a map (similar to e.g. odio's prison and other map features).

Perhaps some sort of Enchanted Heartstone item. It could be equipt to a unit that would gain the Enchanted Heartstone promotion which would act like immortality but when transported to the capital after combat loss the item would be dropped. Or It could create a non-moving heartstone unit that when killed the holding unit is killed but the holding unit acts as an immortal while it is alive.

Trying to come up with mechanics that aren't reproduced elsewhere.

I'll leave it to others to come up with fancier names :)

My five:

Divining Rod: Allows the "discovery" of user's choice of resource in one tile.

Portable Forcefield: Grants city defense of +75% which cannot be affected by siege weapons.

Singularity: Activate to destroy all units in a "fat cross" radius including holder. Might also destroy terrain improvements and "terraform" the land into desert or ice.

Frenetic Machine: Activate to generate 1 hammer and -3 gold, which doubles each turn until the machine is destroyed. Might not be a workable ratio... the possibilities to make the machine produce research or culture for gold exists also.

The Cards of Fate: Activate to give all military units of your civ an 80% chance of 15xp or one free promotion (whichever is better) and a 20% chance of death.

Luciaqua's Ring:
The idea here is that the ring contains the spirit of Luciaqua, giving the holder powerful and destructive abilities at the cost of Luciaqua slowly dominating its mind, and eventually reincarnating herself in body of the holder. Her spirit is immortal, and (if this works as planned) she should be constantly being reborn in the form of more and more powerful units as the civilizations get more advanced. Naturally, Heroes should not be able to pick up the ring.

The ring would be in a random location at the start of the game, being guarded by a moderately powerful (let's say Strength 8, move 0) animal unit to prevent its use in rushes.

Attributes:
+1 death strength, +2 fire strength. It also adds the promotion "Disturbed", which gives the caster a 4% chance per turn of gaining the promotion "Hears Voices", which has a 20% chance per turn of healing the unit, removing Loyalty and Immortal, turning it barbarian and giving it these promotions:

Luciaqua Incarnate (replaces the Hears Voices promo, +2 death strength) along with Hero, Loyalty, and Magic Resistant. (Removing Loyalty at first is just to stop the unit from dying immediately at conversion.)

"Hears Voices" makes the unit go rogue and gain the Luciaqua promos if the player tries to disband it. At no time after the ring is picked up can it be transferred to another unit without killing the current one. After the previous holder (Or Luciaqua Incarnate) is killed, the ring is dropped, waiting to be picked up by the next hapless unit. The cycle continues!

Strategic Advantages:

--Forces the player to trade off the benefit of getting an immediately powerful unit vs. the certainty of it going rogue at some point and wailing on its previous owner. The unit could be sent to a neighboring empire before insanity to have THEM deal with it instead, but this would allow that empire to send the ring against your own armies, should Luciaqua be killed.
--Scales with how advanced/experienced the armies are (since Luciaqua Incarnate would have the base strength of a player-built unit), and so both upside and downside remain somewhat potent throughout the game, but not overpowering.
--I personally like the idea of a powerful warlock hero unintentionally being incarnated by players throughout the game.
--The disadvantage (going rogue) ensures that over the long term, it won't terribly unbalance things.


Disadvantages:
--May be rather powerful in the early game, so the "guardian unit" would have to be balanced to make sure civilizations aren't getting knocked off by it too early. May be too weak in the late game, when mithril Champions are wandering around (though this would also make the staff's downside be lessened, so it may balance out.)
--Mostly good for recon or melee-based civs. Arcane civs would probably just want to get rid of it by leaving the ring guarded by powerful units in their own territory. Though this is actually also rather flavorful.

Hmm, The Kazad seak the ring, not to use it, but do destroy it, or hide it away for ever, and forever remove Luciaqua's folly from the world. (Change Kazad to who ever, it just sounds so much like the Nemesis Crown that I couldn't resist.)