The picture I guess most have of dwarves is of large underground cities in mountains, where lots of metals are mined. But what do dwarves eat? Do they farm in the open sky like humans, or do they get their food some other way? (A mushroom diet perhaps? ;)) Just wondering about this :mischief: as I'm currently playing the Dwarves but of course still need to farm for food.

Well, im most of my RPGs, dwarves or have some colonies on the foot of the mountain or get all food they need by trade from other citys/empires.

Mudpies. :crazyeye:

A more baffling question, where, in thier subterrainian halls, do the dwarves poop? where does it all go?

There are animals in the underground and also on the mountains. I'd rather see dwarves hunting than farming.

They eat dwarf bread or rat, with ketchup.

Bright day
Logicaly? They died of stavation.
Fantasy logic? Undeground fishing. Intesive mushroom farming. Terrace farming on sides of mountains. Pastoralism on slopes that are unusable for agriculture. Dwarven food would be ironically low on minerals and proteins in general.
Fantasy fantasy logic- they trade for it? Nah they make it magically! Yeah magic that is it!

Gygax introduced the Rothe, large longhaired cow sort of creatures that lived in the underground. A subterraen yak that consisted on water and fungus. I always prefered giant underground bugs, they seemed more fitting. Beetle farmers, home cooked larva steaks, Mmm....

Another possible explanation is that the world just doesnt obey the same natural laws as ours. For example, photosynthesis disnt exist in Erebus, I needed to remove it to because the sun was eclipsed for a few years and I didnt want the whole world to wither and die. The advantage of not having photosynthesis around was that underground agriculture became a lot easier. Although Im sure there are a million other reasons it wouldnt work given our natural laws I worried more about consistency (one game couldnt have plants needing light, while another game didnt) than the exact science.

Or you could just assume that dwarves live on beer, lots of beer. :)

But what do they make beer from?

And dwarves are supposed to have developed industry for the time. What do they do with all the waste (and large of it will be toxic fumes)?

But what do they make beer from?

And dwarves are supposed to have developed industry for the time. What do they do with all the waste (and large of it will be toxic fumes)?

I think you have an answer to both of your questions here. It would certainly explain why no one else likes their beer.

If Terry Pratchet has taught us nothing else, it's that they bake incredibly hard bread (possibly consisting in part of rocks) that also double as melee weapons when the need arises


On a side note, Vikings did include a small about of rock in their bread baking

Bad beer and hard bread. That's exactly how I picture dwarves.

Bad beer and hard bread. That's exactly how I picture dwarves.

yeah but they both require farming ;)

And where does the beer come from anyway? Games Workshop?

In the same line of thought, why not change the way that dwarves harvest their environment for food?

In game terms, do not allow dwarves races to build farms but give them another way to harvest food. Some ideas:
- mines also produces 1 food
- allow a new mine type that produces 2 food
- generic buildings that generate 1-2 food, like underground mushroom farms under the city.
- a building that generates food, but requires mountain in the city radius in order to build it. Beetle colony harvested in mountain caves.

This would greatly change the way dwarves races are played. Hills and moutains would become valuable terrain for dwarves races, like forest and ancient forest to elves.

In the same line of thought, why not change the way that dwarves harvest their environment for food?

In game terms, do not allow dwarves races to build farms but give them another way to harvest food. Some ideas:
- mines also produces 1 food
- allow a new mine type that produces 2 food
- generic buildings that generate 1-2 food, like underground mushroom farms under the city.
- a building that generates food, but requires mountain in the city radius in order to build it. Beetle colony harvested in mountain caves.

This would greatly change the way dwarves races are played. Hills and moutains would become valuable terrain for dwarves races, like forest and ancient forest to elves.

I really like that idea. In fact, for the Civ3 Warhammer Fantasy mod, I spent a good amount of time making a couple resources (rocks and dirt), which appear in hills and mountains, provide bonuses (rocks +1 production, dirt +1 food), and are only visible to dwarves and chaos dwarves.

Of course, I didn't worry about balancing issues, because this was only for my own play usage. But it had the effect of turning mountains and hills into very valuable terrains for dwarves, changing the whole way they played. And what's more, since the AI could understand simple things like "food bonus" and "production bonus", the AI adapted to it automatically, and played dwarves similarly.

Some fun replies :goodjob:

Come August the 8th, you'll be able to find out here (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves) :) [/shameless plug for somebody else's work]

In some Fantasy settings, dwarves do not live underground, they just work underground. They have above-ground communities, and the mines are more like outposts. They are often distinguished from a separate race (or races) of dwarves that spend their entire existence underground (Duergar, Dark Dwarves, Deep Dwarves, etc.).

Ed Greenwood took things one step further than Gygax in Forgotten Realms, he created an entire underground ecosystem where the Drow and Duergar had vast kingdoms in the Underdark. The Drow farmed fungi, and raised beasts that fed on the fungi as well, they would also augment their own food supplies with raids on the surface.

When it comes to sanitation, there are just as many rivers underground as there are on the surface, it would not be hard for an underground civilization to work out a viable sewage system.

In some Fantasy settings, dwarves do not live underground, they just work underground. They have above-ground communities, and the mines are more like outposts.

You are not talking about "Snowwhite" here, are you? ;)

But what do they make beer from?

And dwarves are supposed to have developed industry for the time. What do they do with all the waste (and large of it will be toxic fumes)?

They burn the waste in furnaces. The heat and steam make perfect conditions for mushrooms and other humid, mineral depended plants and the pot ash increases the soil value for the purposes of any grain. Light comes from skylights, phlorescent linchen and crystal reflection chambers. Beer is safer than water because of the distilation process. It also is food. Others don't like it because it is layered with different flavors suited to the dwarven tongue. The are rewarded by their god for these practices and they love meat. Dwarven cooks are so beloved they never leave home and the clanniness of the dwarves allows for more honored guests from among the dwarvish peoples......All of this is basic dwarven knowledge and is unknown to nearly all outsiders............the dwarves have blessed you with this knowledge by honor you've earned among them.....We laugh at your jokes......yet know our waste has nothing to do with our beer Kael....that is an orcish tradition. However we appriciate your steadfast representation of us. Water is for blessing and then making ale/beer, craft, farming and tending livestock. Bathing is done in hot mineral springs..........the location of everything I have mentioned is always secret for the privacy of a dwarf is both sacred and a matter of State.

They burn the waste in furnaces. The heat and steam make perfect conditions for mushrooms and other humid, mineral depended plants and the pot ash increases the soil value for the purposes of any grain. Light comes from skylights, phlorescent linchen and crystal reflection chambers. Beer is safer than water because of the distilation process. It also is food. Others don't like it because it is layered with different flavors suited to the dwarven tongue. The are rewarded by their god for these practices and they love meat. Dwarven cooks are so beloved they never leave home and the clanniness of the dwarves allows for more honored guests from among the dwarvish peoples......All of this is basic dwarven knowledge and is unknown to nearly all outsiders............the dwarves have blessed you with this knowledge by honor you've earned among them.....We laugh at your jokes......yet know our waste has nothing to do with our beer Kael....that is an orcish tradition. However we appriciate your steadfast representation of us. Water is for blessing and then making ale/beer, craft, farming and tending livestock. Bathing is done in hot mineral springs..........the location of everything I have mentioned is always secret for the privacy of a dwarf is both sacred and a matter of State.

Bright day
Ahem ahem I highly doubt things like sulphur are good for mushroom growth. Yes organic waste is highly valuale resource. But industrial waste is killer. IMO dwarves are resistant to poisons not because all dwarves were made like that, but because not being resistant was bred out of them.

Oh and dwarven industries are metalurgy and mushroom fiber prouction at the very least. (and what do dwarves burn in their fires, and how is reasonable water distribution cared for in large cities and...)

Beer is safer than water because of the distillation process. Beer isn't distilled, it's fermented. That's a completely different process. In fermentation, yeast converts sugars and starches into alcohol. Distillation doesn't produce alcohol, it just concentrates it.

Bright day
Ahem ahem I highly doubt things like sulphur are good for mushroom growth. Yes organic waste is highly valuale resource. But industrial waste is killer. IMO dwarves are resistant to poisons not because all dwarves were made like that, but because not being resistant was bred out of them.

Oh and dwarven industries are metalurgy and mushroom fiber prouction at the very least. (and what do dwarves burn in their fires, and how is reasonable water distribution cared for in large cities and...)

First:Sulfur is far to important for other things such as gunpowder. So we remove it. Secondly humans have had catastrophies as well and our disasters may not all be known to you but thats the facts when it comes to volcanoes and other forms of explosions, poisons, disease, reproduction difficulties, mutation, genetic intollerance and such. Not to mention the problems early dwarves had with dehydration.
Second :Metallurgy, mushrooms, fungi, mycophagy, and mycology are vital parts of dwarven life, this I never disputed or claimed otherwise.
But you asked specific questions, if you want a complete biographical and biological workup of all dwarves everywhere you had better stop insulting people and behaving like you are the only expert here or go imagine one up all by yourself and not ask for any input because I don't need to post or ever visit anything to do with this ever again if I am going to be talked to like the kids do online for SoCom 3......Ahem Ahem do I hear an appology or a good riddance. and on the next post so I won't post again.........We are talking about dwarves which beverages are highly condensed alcohol in comparison.....also used(distilation) for removing other things such as dibilitating toxins...Humans have this in their own history....Plumber the term comes from latin, It means basically lead caster because putting wine in lead ceases the fermentation process. This is one of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire and their genetic defects, lead poisoning...but some peoples whom loved Roman wine figured out how to distill it...after it killed large amounts of their population.......The Celts among others.

Beer isn't distilled, it's fermented. That's a completely different process. In fermentation, yeast converts sugars and starches into alcohol. Distillation doesn't produce alcohol, it just concentrates it.

I make beer quarterly

So now I am insulting? If you are so easily angered I suggest anger managment lessons <- now that is an insult :lol:

I never said to be "expert" on dwarves. Heck, how can one be an expert on something that does not exist? (aside from several mutations of humans) But I unfortunately know something of caves (if you spend days locked in them you learn). And for most they are closed enviroments poor in sources of organic matter and energy, whatever it be solar, thermal of by decompassion of nitrates.

So I merely made point that only way dwarves can live underground is "suspension of disbelief".

And please do not show your "expertise" with fake sounding unfounded data. (now I am taking about lead containers for wine, not that plumber is derived from plumbum- it is. But as far as I know it is about pipes, which is something that was going on for many centuries on. Further I never saw any evidence of Roman Empire being destroyed by lead poisoning. Though I saw evidence of it being severaly hurt by social stagnation, unequal economic distribution and political corruption).

Also, I think, that to add to insult, I should introduce you to somebody.
H.GrenadeFrenzy meet . also known as fullstop. Fullstop meet H.GrenadeFrenzy. (this is an insult if you are wondering, btw)

OK, funny thread, folks (I'm playing with the idea of nicking some of it for flavour, maybe something to do with the Luichurp). But please don't unleash the first flame-fight in the new forum, huh?

And please do not show your "expertise" with fake sounding unfounded data. (now I am taking about lead containers for wine, not that plumber is derived from plumbum- it is. But as far as I know it is about pipes, which is something that was going on for many centuries on. Further I never saw any evidence of Roman Empire being destroyed by lead poisoning. Though I saw evidence of it being severaly hurt by social stagnation, unequal economic distribution and political corruption).

Well Roman emporers did have a habit of going crazy...

Lead was also used in some food flavouring, as well as in the wine making process. With the lead piping, the pure volume of water which went through the pipes actually meant that the lead levels in the water weren't actually that high. This is all according to some documentary I watched recently, anyways ;). I'm not a historian or a doctor. But the program seemed well researched

Lead was popular in a ridiculous number of things (including the thick white makeup Lizzie the first wore) until someone discovered that in addition to being highly pliable, tough and handy, it was also highly poisonous.

Lead was popular in a ridiculous number of things (including the thick white makeup Lizzie the first wore) until someone discovered that in addition to being highly pliable, tough and handy, it was also highly poisonous.

Well they also used to colour with arsenic:lol:.

And Kevjm- and how was lead used in wine-making?

It's obvious...they mine for fish. ;)

I'd actually go for terracing mountainsides for farmland. Because of their subterrainian networks, they would not suffer the transportation difficulties that most others would have in reaching high mountain pastures and secluded glens. The dwarves would be the masters of the mountains, both above and below. Dwarves should be able to make good use of land that nobody else would eb able to, they have their own nice little niche in the world.

To improve the diversity of their food, they could harvest subterrainian mushrooms and the like, and maybe make use of some thermophyllic organisms in the depths.

They most likely also trade with the outside world for some more variety in their diet, in exchange for their skillfully forged goods (and documents). The Dwarves could probably also make a niche in the exotic foods market, exporting some of their surplus mineral aquatics; rock cod, orefish, stonefish, steelhead, goldfish...silver fish. They'd probably sell by the tuna!

And Kevjm- and how was lead used in wine-making?

I honestly can't remember :/

My source for the lead comments is a Master Plumber and former Special Forces operative whom has direct access to a storehouse of information on the topic. He often points out information flaws on such topics because the records he uses are more accurate and pertain to his trade.

The distillation comment was intentionally contriversial because like the claims of Egyptologists masquarading under the profession of anthropology many would have you believe distillation did not occur until the middle ages even though documention from other sociaties and civilization claim that others had discovered and taught it earlier.

These sorts of errors in information are common and one source to show how it happens is Economics & Cultures:Foundations of Economic Anthropology by Richard R. Wilk. I list this because while to record of facts rarely distinguishes the opposing discussions in anything but a self righteous club over the head(I am right and you are wrong) tone. This causes not only a loss of data but a misinterpertation of facts to the extend that culture is lost forever. And often the academics lie to cover up their previois shortcummings and deceptons, social positions ie...pristiege(mispelling intentional),property and power over others.

Another example from my own history: In 1998 August I attended a Sundance in South Dakota. After the very Beutiful opening dance a lead dancer spoke",We are Aztec dancers and we have heard that we are extinct. We find this to be very strange.....We have been here the whole time!." His first name is Hector and they still offer live shows to the public in Denver, Colorado

These comments were and are for role-playing flavor add or subtract at will but if all you do is poke holes in peoples statements withou offering more contribution the name of this game according to Transactional Analysis is Inquistion and is often used in court rooms and academics to destroy anothers presentation without merit. Unfortunately if usually works to the debasement of all

....Gladi I forgive you for it is probraly simply in you nature as your posts and signature imply. Plus you get points from me for being a fellow spelunker(deep enough to avoid snakes damn the spiders damn them to hell...........I wish I could eat centipeeds....and whatever those freakish flat silver/gray insects are that the AOutobon Society hasn't helped me with damn manuals.) To quote a misadventure.
But we can still agree to disagree. And rember(please) playfull banter and reeducation can be good but bulldozer aproach is best saved for the game..Thanx and this should apply to everbody in forrums like this lest the creativity in people be dried up and parched beyond quelching.

Dwarves should definitely not be afraid of crustations(from insects on up) and the use of them for food should be normal as well as a bonus of some sort for posion use, identification and antiodotes. Most games ignore this inevitablity. Salamaders? Posion extraction from posionous prey possibly. Little white blind creatures abnormal for surface dwellers maybe?

I honestly can't remember :/

I thought, from memory (damned, where are those crows when you need them!), that the lead was actually in the container/stopper - and that is where the buildup came from. also in the tankards & ewers.....

Also, somehow I think most Dwarfs should have Scottish accents (just feels soooooo right).... in which case, having a wee drop of something more potent than mead or ale woud'na go astray!

Also, somehow I think most Dwarfs should have Scottish accents (just feels soooooo right).... in which case, having a wee drop of something more potent than mead or ale woud'na go astray!

That was actually the concensus of the team (well, a few members that weighed in on it) but I vetoed the idea. I never liked or understood giving a real world regional accent to any fantasy group. Be that vampires with transylvanian accents or dwarves with scottish accents. I blame tolkien.

I tend to prefer writing that focuses on what that creature would emphasize, instead of giving them an accent.

Here is something interesting...

I believe the original implementation of "can cross mountains" code prevented the units from boarding boats, other than at a city.

Make dwarven units only able to board a boat in a real port, because they are heavier than water, and boarding elsewhere isn't safe.

Have dwarven herders that cannot leave hills/mountain terrain, and can build "dwarven deep hunting camps" (+2/3 food mountains, +1 food +0/2 trade hills).

At a later tech, have "dwarven untouchables" who have been expelled from dwarven cities, who can build some non-hill/mountain improvements (the ability to harvest non-hill/mountain resources is required by game balance).

That was actually the concensus of the team (well, a few members that weighed in on it) but I vetoed the idea. I never liked or understood giving a real world regional accent to any fantasy group. Be that vampires with transylvanian accents or dwarves with scottish accents. I blame tolkien.

I tend to prefer writing that focuses on what that creature would emphasize, instead of giving them an accent.

I accept what you say, but isnt giving them an "accepted" accent the same as giving them normally "accepted" attributes? ;)

.... waiting now to see the Dwarfs as a bunch of tree huggers....... :crazyeye:

(no offence woodelf!)

I accept what you say, but isnt giving them an "accepted" accent the same as giving them normally "accepted" attributes? ;)

.... waiting now to see the Dwarfs as a bunch of tree huggers....... :crazyeye:

(no offence woodelf!)

Yeap! But (just my personal opinion here) the scottish accent is a real world thing that seems to break the illusion of the fantasy world. I don't have a problem with the dwarven fondness for beer, which is a part of their accepted flavor. But I would have a problem if they prefered Guiness or some other earth specific brand.

Again, just one guys opinion.

What about birds of prey that prefer mountainous regions... there are several kinds that perfer those areas...let my trained feathered friend prove his worth to the clans....and recieve a place of honor among them.

Bright day
A) I am not spelunker, I just like going into dampy dark places, be they natural or manmade, I think there is special name for that. And your caves sound a lot different from our caves...

B) of course distilation was in Ancient times, it was already used for parfumes amongst other things afaik in roman times.

C) It may be that we both overreacted. But I have to take objection to you "forgivness" of my unfortunate traits. Which in itself could be translated as an insult.

....Gladi I forgive you for it is probraly simply in you nature as your posts and signature imply. Plus you get points from me for being a fellow spelunker(deep enough to avoid snakes damn the spiders damn them to hell...........I wish I could eat centipeeds....and whatever those freakish flat silver/gray insects are that the AOutobon Society hasn't helped me with damn manuals.)

I think you may be referring to Silverfish, this is what they look like (lets see if I can get this link to work):

http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/silverfish.jpg


Dwarves should definitely not be afraid of crustations(from insects on up) and the use of them for food should be normal as well as a bonus of some sort for posion use, identification and antiodotes. Most games ignore this inevitablity. Salamaders? Posion extraction from posionous prey possibly. Little white blind creatures abnormal for surface dwellers maybe?

Not sure what games you are talking about, but the old D&D tradition is that Dwarves have a higher constitution than normal, and are immune to most types of poison.

Bright day
A) I am not spelunker, I just like going into dampy dark places, be they natural or manmade, I think there is special name for that. And your caves sound a lot different from our caves...

B) of course distilation was in Ancient times, it was already used for parfumes amongst other things afaik in roman times.

C) It may be that we both overreacted. But I have to take objection to you "forgivness" of my unfortunate traits. Which in itself could be translated as an insult.


A)It has been awhile since i had oppurtunity to enjoy my favorite rappelling/climbing experience....I have some tales but a different thread would probrably be in order maybe Caverns and the World Below.
B)the roots of Alchemy........oh joy!
C)Great,it took me awhile to acclimate but I like your traits.......and I think I may understand....try this on if you will

Cynism is the product of unfullfilled Idealism. The fulfillment of Idealism through the validation of the possiblities by manifestion by breaching the limitations of the status quo is the method not only enlightenment, it is also nessisary for the paradigm shift required for entrance into a new Age...Thus Cynics should be held close not so much for their sarcasm as for the cause/source of the sarcasm.....because the pain they feel is not just for their own place in the world as it is for the worlds place within the community of which they are apart and the worlds place it the universe........without them and the progression of their insights and a trusting and imimate society to embrace them ......we are all truly lost..............do you hear the drums...........it is your heart........remeber that....and breathe.........I too have been a Cynic for far too long but not anymore..........If I am wrong its ok It will not be the first or last time....but the enlighten mind can cast off any poison cast at it.....laughter is good.......maddening gallows laugh and "This one needs more work, boss"......"I may not agree with you but I'll go to the ramparts with a broken bottle with you>" by Derry Brownfield ...i think

"I abhor what you say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it" - Voltaire, not sure that's close but it sounds like the source of inspiration.

"I abhor what you say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it" - Voltaire, not sure that's close but it sounds like the source of inspiration.

I know that quote too. but Brownfield or Farber offered this other version of the same premise on his regular radio show......I'm not sure which and it has been awhile since out here in the boonies played the particular show in queston..........however both radio show archives are available online.............mostly free

I think you may be referring to Silverfish, this is what they look like (lets see if I can get this link to work):

http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/silverfish.jpg



Not sure what games you are talking about, but the old D&D tradition is that Dwarves have a higher constitution than normal, and are immune to most types of poison.

Silverfish almost but no feelers........and maybe thats why I let myself excuse it to quickly........I mean if,the feelers aren't there maybe there is a reason the little freaks where about an inch long...metallic(copperish) acidic smell eveywhere thousands of them both times different caverns.... slimey gritty soot like substance on them............I donno ten years may have altered my memory no matter how vivid......


Dwarves,yeah resistance but no followup on knowledge or application....except dark dwarves maybe its an evil issue idono but antidotes for poor bastards that are not dwarves...if they know how....as well as what is edible........posion for pest control as well and what not....damn....I'm human far too human....but I do care about dwarves..and honor......feel my wrath Yagsothuos.....never spell this name correctly and if you don't know why don't ask and good you are better off in ignorance...

They introduce their neighbors to Rock Soup regularly......especially the elves...when asked why they say because you have the best spices for our wonderful rocks now go get these things.......no daisies please....they sour the rocks..

I thought, from memory (damned, where are those crows when you need them!), that the lead was actually in the container/stopper - and that is where the buildup came from. also in the tankards & ewers.....

Lead was used by the Romans in wine as a sweetener. The lead reacts with acetic acid in the wine (found in high levels in the cheap, near-vinegar variety that seems to have been a Roman staple) to form lead acetate, commonly called "sugar of lead" for its sweet (edit: but toxic) taste.

There are some claims that the Romans used lead acetate as a sweetener in food, not just wine, but I don't recall seeing anything substantive.

Bringing this back a bit more on topic, in my fantasy worlds, dwarves have a *very* high tolerance for heavy metals, and elves have a correspondingly low tolerance. So, all the elves have to watch their diets, being prone to things like hemochromatosis from too much dietary iron, while the dwarves maintain an ageless appearance through arsenic-eating.

(Seriously, there are really people who have become arsenic-eaters, starting with small amounts and eventually being able to eat amounts of arsenic that would kill a normal person. The arsenic keeps their skin soft, supple, and unwrinkled--but after a certain point, they can't stop eating it or they'll die.)

Apparently there is fairly strong evidence Napoleon was one of them, only he used it as a kind of drug. In any case, the arsenic in his hair was enough to kill a normal man, so either he was poisoned, or...

Apparently there is fairly strong evidence Napoleon was one of them, only he used it as a kind of drug. In any case, the arsenic in his hair was enough to kill a normal man, so either he was poisoned, or...

My understanding is that the latest scholarship is that analysis of hair samples taken throughout his life show multiple large, non-lethal doses of arsenic over time; the official cause of death for L'Empereur was gastric cancer. The problem is that on more than one occasion, arsenic poisoning has been misdiagnosed as gastric cancer. However, a team of Swiss doctors examined the rate at which Napoleon lost weight in the year before his death, and concluded that he died of stomach cancer, which had also been the cause of his father's death.

I think I knew that once, but all I remembered was the arsenic bit. Interesting. Horribly OT, but definitely interesting:D

I think I knew that once, but all I remembered was the arsenic bit. Interesting. Horribly OT, but definitely interesting:D

I am sorry Wilboman.............it is my fault. I was just trying to reinterate a point about how civilizations differ so greatlyl.........and no matter how powerful they are they still have frailties that affect not just them but those other civilizations that interact and/or ostrasize them.....basically if you know them or are in any kind of location that has been infuenced by them there is a mark left.........like the universal laws of gravitation for analogy.....in origin It was simple role-playing for game meat, mead and sauce.....Ultimately that is a very important part of this game we play after all it is named Civilization but my methods could have used a little more candore,and even if I have tried to bring things back on topic.....I take resposiblity for it going off topic.......OK

Caving or spelunking as we call it is fun but remember at least three people go in and two of them have experience and I don't mean once this is to prevent what happens if you don't heed this traditional safety rule.]

There are many things dwarves might eat. It makes sense that dwarves would be very resistant to toxins because not only heavy metals are down there. Many kinds of poisonous creatures and things like bats.........bat guanno is a killer and not just from the toxins but the molds and other micro-organisms that grow on it are dangerous and sometimes fatal. Could it be that dwarves could eat bat too and not tell others because of their superstitions and reactions (Social) to the fact.....just considering the possiblity.......to get ya minds a moving to help our favorite mod makers....

Just because foods are fatal/toxic to humans doesnt mean that a Dwarf wouldnt consider it a great delicasy! Remember, we are talking about a non human species. Different genetic code... its a common enough feature in the real world, so why not in a fantasy world?

That said, the staple diet of most creatures, fantasy or otherwise has a common enough base - whatever the staple foods are, they have to have a high enough calory content to be able to sustain vast numbers of hungry Dwarfs. Just imagine the food needed to feed a population in a large city!

You have to end up ruling out bats/rats and insects as anything but an occasional delicacy (battered rat on a stick anyone?), due to their size and the quantity/time that would be needed to catch enough of them to feed enough Dwarfs..... at the end of the day, you are back to grains (or suitable substitute) for the bulk of their food source, and larger animals for meat supplies... mushrooms are a fine source, but there does exist the problem of generating enough of them to feed a population as the calory count isnt as high as most grains.... so you would need to eat MORE of them....

Oh, I don't mind things slipping off on an interesting tangent, I'm a bit of master of thread-jacking myself:p I certainly didn't know that thing about lead as a sweetener in wine, so now I've learned something new.

But back OT, I figure we've ignored something basic. This is a magical world, with sun magic (among other things). In the real world, creating UV rays isn't too hard, just look at those people who grow pot in their basement under sunlamps. So why can't the Dwarves, and in our case, particularly the Luichurp, just magic up a suitable source of sunlight to power the photosynthesis in a vast network of underground fields? I was thinking I'd maybe use that little idea for a flavour text on the Kazad.

Just because foods are fatal/toxic to humans doesnt mean that a Dwarf wouldnt consider it a great delicasy! Remember, we are talking about a non human species. Different genetic code... its a common enough feature in the real world, so why not in a fantasy world?

That said, the staple diet of most creatures, fantasy or otherwise has a common enough base - whatever the staple foods are, they have to have a high enough calory content to be able to sustain vast numbers of hungry Dwarfs. Just imagine the food needed to feed a population in a large city!

You have to end up ruling out bats/rats and insects as anything but an occasional delicacy (battered rat on a stick anyone?), due to their size and the quantity/time that would be needed to catch enough of them to feed enough Dwarfs..... at the end of the day, you are back to grains (or suitable substitute) for the bulk of their food source, and larger animals for meat supplies... mushrooms are a fine source, but there does exist the problem of generating enough of them to feed a population as the calory count isnt as high as most grains.... so you would need to eat MORE of them....

Have you ever found a bat cave? Those little bastards really pack in there in fact you could farm them if you had sticky plants to attrack insects outside their cave...and back to point bat guanno is flammable thus fuel for furnaces and lighting is plentiful..............secret of the dwarves possibley uncovered? Or a least speculated upon.....Trying to tie things together also added something for you Wilboman on another thread...post entitled Invading the Dream Space............I dreamt it literally

Oh, I don't mind things slipping off on an interesting tangent, I'm a bit of master of thread-jacking myself:p I certainly didn't know that thing about lead as a sweetener in wine, so now I've learned something new.

But back OT, I figure we've ignored something basic. This is a magical world, with sun magic (among other things). In the real world, creating UV rays isn't too hard, just look at those people who grow pot in their basement under sunlamps. So why can't the Dwarves, and in our case, particularly the Luichurp, just magic up a suitable source of sunlight to power the photosynthesis in a vast network of underground fields? I was thinking I'd maybe use that little idea for a flavour text on the Kazad.

Refection Chambers and Mountain Quarts on skyline receptors..........lava flow receptors and also Refection Chambers and Sun Magic..........What kinda plants ya lookin for son?.........if it ain't here,it doesn't grow anywhere cuz here in the Hydroponic Chamber we grow anything even if it requires a particular kinda atmosphere.......What? Your momma said that wasn't safe to eat,well she probrably jus doen't know how to cook it right..son meet Braggon , he is our chef and boy has he gotta dish for you.......What? What's my real name?.Boy they've always called me Farmer, it is my real name..

Refection Chambers and Mountain Quarts on skyline receptors..........lava flow receptors and also Refection Chambers and Sun Magic..........What kinda plants ya lookin for son?.........if it ain't here,it doesn't grow anywhere cuz here in the Hydroponic Chamber we grow anything even if it requires a particular kinda atmosphere.......What? Your momma said that wasn't safe to eat,well she probrably jus doen't know how to cook it right..son meet Braggon , he is our chef and boy has he gotta dish for you.......What? What's my real name?.Boy they've always called me Farmer, it is my real name..

Good flavor text there, now we just need a Dwarven Farmer unit to apply it to.

they eats baby mind flayers or perhap they like their own kinds.

Good flavor text there, now we just need a Dwarven Farmer unit to apply it to.

I live in Nebraska and theorically speaking anyone could be NAMED Farmer,but I do agree a Dwarven Farmer with what Wilboman is suggesting and a little role-play could be very interesting and perfered if they could build farms in mountain tiles or better yet anytile........desert hahaha....we underground dwellers love desert that is what dew collectors are for hahahaha....take that adepts.....Please don't tell my neighbors I said tne Name thing these people....pitch forks,shotguns,rifles,weopons and methods of destruction city people have forgotten I dare not mention....they don't so much frighten me...it is just that......You don't want everyone around to start thinking like you when their miffed....

It came to me in a flash! Of course!

Juistification for the natural hostility.....

It must be the greatest delicacy in the Dwarven kitchens....

Deep Fried Elf.

[QUOTE=Horacio]You are not talking about "Snowwhite" here, are you? ;)[/QUOw

Would anybody go there.......now that we have.

It came to me in a flash! Of course!

Juistification for the natural hostility.....

It must be the greatest delicacy in the Dwarven kitchens....

Deep Fried Elf.

MadBrad just reminded me that anything that eats purple daisies is obviously livestock....plants eat dirt,plant eaters eat plants, carnivours eat anything that they can catch and plant eaters munching on flowers are a taunting target put there by the gods for snacks, breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper. MMMMMmmmm.....delicate meat, fruity flavored........best in late spring and early summer.

Arrows lots and lots of Ljosalfar Arrows not long after they find the Leaves cuz since they are invisible now in forests in my game for some reason anyway they attack the Luchuirp and Bannor and an inveading force is deady by turn 220 even if the other two team up...........meaning dwarves humans,and angels eat arrows lots and lots of arrows especially if you are in the lead........oh I like it but these two civs Bannor and especially Luchuirp had best stay on their best side.......(You can bet the next time i play the Ljosalfar I willkeep this method in mind) For if you don't know where the woodsman are their special ablities are even worse if try to fight a war you don't start out the elves can defend their area mostly outside the cities and invade yours without you seeing them approaching even in your own land provided you have forests....

....its pobrably because the wood golems offend them Hybrid Greenies thats what the elves are it is what happens when greeny daisy eaters reproduce for generations......"Hey dwarf where did you get that and is that what I think.....BReeeedatatatatat.....full auto arrow fire..........Well you look like you've already ate..I mean your full of arrows so I'll just put this fire out ....what's in here?.........oh by the light of the glade they are Mutilating these poor trees and lool this one could be a sleeping treant...............we'll kill them...we'll kill them all!"ELVES take. Dwrves take "" man I'm hungry gotta get this campfire sta..Brelatatattatatl...."(I Wonder if some other dwarf will finish that golem, I really love my craft. It is why I plant three times what I cut down.)