Ok, the AI had several battleships and the most powerful ship I had to fight them at the time were destroyers. I built about 10-12 destroyers and they were sank one after another by the russian battleships. I managed to sink 1 battleship the whole time. Now I had a strong ground army sitting on my land with 8 transports docked in my main port city. I could not even think of them leaving the harbor. Needless to say, I was at war with 2 countries and it was close. It was enough to tear apart my science and keep me from advancing so I could eventually get battleships to take them on.

To make this short and sum it up, destroyer vs battleship is a suicide mission. At least 1 on 1, now if I would attack with 4 or more at a time in the same turn, I can probably take down a battleship. I just thought I could get lucky, send a few battleships to the bottom. Get some loaded transports out to land some troops and artillery pieces. It did not work this way. If I would of had carriers, I would have ate them alive, but I didn't.

Anyone know what promotions, if any, could give a destroyer a better chance at taking down a battleship? I do realize that I should have been attacking each battleship at least 3 times in one turn. Problem is, I never had enough time to wait until I can build all of these destroyers and send them out in fleets of 3 or more. I mean, 2 destroyers at one time was never enough so I figure at least 3 might help but I am sure I would lose 2 of them before that battleship goes under.

Any tips or is this mostly just a suicide mission? I normally build a bigger navy but this game I went with a fairly strong ground army. This was an archipelago standard size map. Oh and this game is already over, lost pretty bad, lets just say Dan Quayle :( :lol:

Battleships do rule the seas...

Bomb them with fighters or bombers to reduce their strength, or damage them with subs first, then send in your destroyers. Thats about all you can do without hoards of destroyers or battleships of your own.

It's like trying to use a warrior to fight a marine. Better wait until you have your own battleships.

It it suicide. maybe drill and a lot of luck? nothing else will help, combat won't improve your odds by a whole lot and flanking is only good if you don't get attacked the next turn. go with silver's advice(or attack a weaker opponent)

Bleh it's no different than fending off axes with archers. You just need to let them come to you and attack when you have more numbers, preferably a 3:1 ratio but anything over 2:1 should suffice.

Hmm, I must be the only one who is always loosing battleships to destroyers. And mine have 2 or 3 promotions while the destroyers have none. But if you are facing a big bunch of battleships wait for your own battleships and upgrade the colateral damage promotion. Otherwise use fighters and bombers to take them down and then send in the destroyers.

That's what I do if threatened by battleships I bombard them with bombers until they are heavily damaged and attack them with battleships if lacking destroyers will work. I too have lost battleships to destroyers to my surprise but not too often. The collatoral damage works good too damaging stacks.

i'd say let the battleships drive around anf rebuild your fishing nets afterwards, instead of worring about trying to destroy them. destroyers are nothing but anti-air and anti-submarine ships once someone has battleships. i think battleship hammers should be doubled. after all, their extreme cost is one of the main reasons they fell out of vogue in real life.

What surprises me is that battleships have the same strength as modern tanks which doesn't make sense. Before nukes battleships were like nuclear weapons of their time. Just look how powerful the Bismarck was, too bad they ran like chickens from the English battleship Prince of Wales and Aircraft carriers.

as everyone said, the most efficient way is bombing them

but more often than not, you don't have (enough) planes near the targets, that's why i use a lot of subs, like yarmoss said.
your subs would be safe from the battleships (they don't see them arf), can withdraw half the time (with flanking I and II, you can escape 90% of the time!!! it just takes a dry dock, and one civic either vassalage or theocracy, or just one withdrawal).

I've always got at least 2 subs running around. Usually they go some what ahead of the transports, and the destroyers/battleships/carriers stack with the transport until there is something to destroy.

edit : i prioritize radio (bombers!) very much over industrialism, that's why i have subs way before battleships

Yeh subs are good too and Cabert I too will go for Radio before industrialism but more so for the "Eiffel Tower"/bombers.

I concur... subs are cheap, "invisible" and has a high chance of withdrawing after having damaged it's enemy, whom can then be sunk by a destroyer/more subs... or rather your own battleship.

You don't even need the full 90% flanking... what's the first promo get you to? -70%?... it's high enough for the price, since it only takes one turn to build in a decent production-city... if i get a second promo i usually go with the "+1-move" since they also dubbel up as spy-transports and ice-patrol.

happy to see some submarines fans here :)

Hmmm so THAT's what subs are good for... I've used them mainly to sink wooden ships :)

AI vanilla destroyers beat my battleships with 3 promotions all the time. It's frustrating and lame.

Hmmm so THAT's what subs are good for... I've used them mainly to sink wooden ships :)

AI vanilla destroyers beat my battleships with 3 promotions all the time. It's frustrating and lame.

just bad luck
you'll have your share of good luck

It seems to me that attacking ships tend to have less chances of success than the % indicates. This could be my lack of experience with the navy though. I'm in the middle of an achipelago game right now. I've lost galleys with one or two promotions to ships with none when attacking. Doesn't each tile give 10% defense?
Also, what's a good naval stack for a modern navy? Carrier w/jets and bombers, destroyer (too see subs), battleships, and subs leading the way...?

the only useful unit to stack are battleships with transports (and carrier with jets, bombers don't land on carriers). Can use one destroyer to see subs/intercept air strikes, but the AI use very little subs AFAIK

the subs should be leading the way, but they are slow!
i use the jets to scout everywhere around before moving the ships, then i move the subs and place my ships :
out of reach if necessary,
reading to attack, if i have the firepower
if you see an enemy stack coming, you have 2 solutions then :
- wait till he comes into bombing range of a city (you should anticipate this, by guessing were it's going)
- send jets bombing, then subs, then your best ships d(on't wound an enemy! you must kill them , because promotion can happen fast, and be very powerfull for a battleship : drills are killers)!

Just bad luck, Battleships are better then Destroyers, but not that much.

What surprises me is that battleships have the same strength as modern tanks which doesn't make sense. Before nukes battleships were like nuclear weapons of their time. Just look how powerful the Bismarck was, too bad they ran like chickens from the English battleship Prince of Wales and Aircraft carriers.
Well, it would be really stupid from any battleship commander to stay close to aircraft carrier, won't you agree? Anyway, Bismarck was sunk by torpedo aircrafts, not by other battleships directly.

Subs have a native 50% withdrawl chance. Flanking I adds 10%. Flanking II adds 20% so that's 80% total with both promotions. After that I add Drill promotions to subs in the hopes that they'll get in a couple free hits before the battleship beats them into withdrawl.

After flanking I give subs sentry.

Subs have a native 50% withdrawl chance. Flanking I adds 10%. Flanking II adds 20% so that's 80% total with both promotions. After that I add Drill promotions to subs in the hopes that they'll get in a couple free hits before the battleship beats them into withdrawl.


I agree to the letter.

Subs the best counter.

Problem is, I never had enough time to wait until I can build all of these destroyers and send them out in fleets of 3 or more.

I don't understand how you had enough time to fritter away 12 destroyers one by one, but you didn't have enough time to build up a fleet of 3 or 4 before attacking with them.

Yeah, theres nothing the enemy can do to get your destroyers when they're hidden in your city (unless he captures it)... so you might as well save a few up until you've got enough to do some damage.

All the battleships can do is pillage your fishing boats, which is annoying, but hardly something thats gonna loose you the game.

I did not have radio tech yet so subs were not an option for me. Then on top of this, I was unable to get any other countries to trade it. Other then this, subs would have been a great alternative, they are undetectable and can withdraw for repairs. I was far away fom industrialism so I had to forget battleships of my own. I usually have a decent navy but this game I tried to go with a large ground army, that I did have. I had a very large army of artillery and riflemen but all they could do is sit on my land or board a transport and visit a watery grave. I could not wait and just let the battleships sit out there, I was trying to win this game. They kept my transports from leaving the dock and being able to land. I had to land asap so russia's ground army did not develop bigger and better. So I did not want to wait until I was able to build 3 or 4 destroyers in a fleet.

I thought I could get lucky and take out a battleship or 2 without having to wait. So I learned the hard way needless to say and never will I try a 1 on 1 with a battleship if all I have is a single destroyer. Unless I want to lose it of course. I will go for flight next time and get some fighters since they are much faster to build then battleships and when I get carriers, I will certainly be ok. Anyway, I never did sink russia's battleships, only 1 of them out of like 6 maybe, just what I seen. They most likely had more of them. They also had alot of destroyers of their own too. A reason why I won't neglect my navy anymore on a map like this.

Naval warfare needs work.

We need a cruiser unit to we can spread out the firepower a bit more, make destroyers weaker but specialize them against subs, make cruisers more powerful than destroyers and give them good anti-air defences, and make battleships immensely powerful against other ships. Subs should be good at sneak attacking battleships and carriers.

Subs have a native 50% withdrawl chance. Flanking I adds 10%. Flanking II adds 20% so that's 80% total with both promotions. After that I add Drill promotions to subs in the hopes that they'll get in a couple free hits before the battleship beats them into withdrawl.

true i had flanking 1 wrong, but 80% is quite high, isn't it?
plus you get xps for withdrawal as well

I did not have radio tech yet so subs were not an option for me. Then on top of this, I was unable to get any other countries to trade it. Other then this, subs would have been a great alternative, they are undetectable and can withdraw for repairs. I was far away fom industrialism so I had to forget battleships of my own. I usually have a decent navy but this game I tried to go with a large ground army, that I did have. I had a very large army of artillery and riflemen but all they could do is sit on my land or board a transport and visit a watery grave. I could not wait and just let the battleships sit out there, I was trying to win this game. They kept my transports from leaving the dock and being able to land. I had to land asap so russia's ground army did not develop bigger and better. So I did not want to wait until I was able to build 3 or 4 destroyers in a fleet.

I thought I could get lucky and take out a battleship or 2 without having to wait. So I learned the hard way needless to say and never will I try a 1 on 1 with a battleship if all I have is a single destroyer. Unless I want to lose it of course. I will go for flight next time and get some fighters since they are much faster to build then battleships and when I get carriers, I will certainly be ok. Anyway, I never did sink russia's battleships, only 1 of them out of like 6 maybe, just what I seen. They most likely had more of them. They also had alot of destroyers of their own too. A reason why I won't neglect my navy anymore on a map like this.

well, going for landing troops without navy is a bit risky:rolleyes:

Now, there are three ways in which a sovereign can bring misfortune upon his army:
1. When ignorant that the army should not advance, to order an advance; or when ignorant that it should not retire, to order a retirement. This is described as "hobbling the army."
2. When ignorant of military affairs, to interfere in their administration. This causes the officers to be perplexed.
3. When ignorant of command problems, to interfere with the direction of the fighting. This engenders doubts in the minds of the officers.
...
Thus, there are five points in which victory may be predicted:
1. He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.
2. He who understands how to fight in accordance with the strength of antagonistic forces will be victorious.
3. He whose ranks are united in purpose will be victorious.
4. He who is well prepared and lies in wait for an enemy who is not well prepared will be victorious.
5. He whose generals are able and not interfered with by the sovereign will be victorious.

If you are not going to win a battle, do not fight it!!! That is primarily why your navy was defeated. When you attack, you must attack in overhwelming numbers where your enemy is the most vulnerable. 8 Destroyers may defeat 4 Battleships, though 4 may perish in the process. As long as you attack with superior numbers, you will be able to kill one enemy for every one of yours that falls. You wound the enemy, and they are weakened, and then you kill them.

What surprises me is that battleships have the same strength as modern tanks which doesn't make sense. Before nukes battleships were like nuclear weapons of their time. Just look how powerful the Bismarck was, too bad they ran like chickens from the English battleship Prince of Wales and Aircraft carriers.

What do you mean "too bad" they turned chicken! If we hadn't sunk the Bismark the war in the Atlantic may have turned out with a different result!

Subs would have done the job in sufficient number, and they're rather cheap. Give them flanking promotions, and you'll almost never lose one (80% chance of retreat is huge).


Edit : oops, i see someone else already mentioned them! I should have known, since this is such an obvious solution. :p

I could not wait and just let the battleships sit out there, I was trying to win this game. They kept my transports from leaving the dock and being able to land. I had to land asap so russia's ground army did not develop bigger and better. So I did not want to wait until I was able to build 3 or 4 destroyers in a fleet.

I thought I could get lucky and take out a battleship or 2 without having to wait.

You say you want to win, yet you based your tactics on chance. If you'd saved a few up, you would have almost guaranteed a safe passage for your transports.

It kind of bugs me that Civ4 planes can't sink ships. Much of the naval fighting in WWII was done with planes. The strength of an aircraft carrier is its long range - it can launch its planes from way beyond the reach of any guns. (And Japanese planes should do extra extra damage blowing themselves up :) )

I think a naval model like that of the Axemen-Spearman-Swordsman-Archer-etc. How about:
Destroyer: can see subs, bonus attack against them
Crusier: stronger than destroyer, good antiair
Battleship: rocks other ships like no other
Submarine: bonus attack against everything but destroyer?
Carrier: vulnerable to direct attack, but should beat up on ships with the planes
Transport: Mincemeat to everything metal. It bugs me when they beat full health, promoted Destroyers with their little machine guns.

It kind of bugs me that Civ4 planes can't sink ships. Much of the naval fighting in WWII was done with planes. The strength of an aircraft carrier is its long range - it can launch its planes from way beyond the reach of any guns. (And Japanese planes should do extra extra damage blowing themselves up :) )

good point!
A pity that you cannot sink a battleship with a fully loaded carrier!


Transport: Mincemeat to everything metal. It bugs me when they beat full health, promoted Destroyers with their little machine guns.

true, the transports are a bit too strong. They shouldn't be able to sink a frigate so easily.

Preparation did seem the key to this one. You lost time by sending out destroyers one at a time. If you'd built up your destroyers a bit more then maybe instead of hunting battleships you could just have stacked them with your transports with a good chance you would have got troops landed before Russia was able to concentrate their battleships against your stack.
Giving the destroyers drill promotions may have helped them survive battleship attacks.

Bomb them with fighters or bombers to reduce their strength, or damage them with subs first, then send in your destroyers. Thats about all you can do without hoards of destroyers or battleships of your own.

Simply put, destroyers mash up fighters and bombers whilst battleships are vulnerable to them.

Like most things in the Modern Era, soften up with air power and kill with whatever really.

So that's how you use subs! Thanks guys. :)

I agree that transports are too strong, and battleships too weak... and planes should sink ships... but now I have a better idea how to work with what I've got.

Just look how powerful the Bismarck was, too bad they ran like chickens from the English battleship Prince of Wales and Aircraft carriers.Well, it would be really stupid from any battleship commander to stay close to aircraft carrier, won't you agree? Anyway, Bismarck was sunk by torpedo aircrafts, not by other battleships directly.Bismarck did not run, PoW was the 1 that broke engagement after Hood was lost... Hood lost demostrated why you should NEVER used anything that is unarmored against a battleship! :lol:

2ndly Bismarck was not really sunk by aircraft, it rubber was struck, remained operational but travelling in circles until the ship was surrounded by british and had to be abandoned. the germans most likely sunk their own ship after the bridge was hit...

(ironically, PoW was sunk by planes while defeating singapore at the malayan coast...)

if Bismarck had enough fuel left from the damage, it would not need to turn back to europe and get hit by planes in the process of returning... at the time of the attack, Bismarck did not have any essort. it fair quite well for a 1 ship navy against the ENTIRE british navy... :lol: Bismarck by design was not really the best when compared to those in the pacific, just that it was facing british battleship well known for their machine failures... :lol:

hmm sorry for the british bashing... :mischief: i just write it like so for a dramatic touch, for the record the british fleet do not suck... :D

:goodjob: :sad:

If you add the movement promotion to battle ships they close the gap on the destroyer movemnet advantage assuming the AI dont add this.

Hmm, I must be the only one who is always loosing battleships to destroyers. And mine have 2 or 3 promotions while the destroyers have none. But if you are facing a big bunch of battleships wait for your own battleships and upgrade the colateral damage promotion. Otherwise use fighters and bombers to take them down and then send in the destroyers.

Nope you're not and it happens to me alot more than I care for. Every time it has been a one on one battle, no other ships, and my battleship was on the defensive.

I have yet to attack an AI battleship with a destroyer and win though, hehe.