The State of West Licentia contains Old Sarai, Abydos, and Constitution Falls

Here's the current state of affairs. There is a great need for law and order in the wild west. I plan to build courthouses in all three cities.

Abydos is currently our most productive city.

This city desperately needs to lower its maintainence costs. The courthouse will reduce maintainence by 50%.
By hiring one scientist the researchon Metal Casing will not be reduced. Abydos can't afford to grow due to pending happiness issues so we will stop and new citizens to the city. Happiness is much more important than health and we can't afford unhappy citizens. Here's how I would assign the citizens.

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/8953/adydos9ec.jpg

Old Sarai is also very productive with its iron mine however as you can see it is also in need of lower its maintainence cost. This will be a long term project since I'd like to get the cottage up use it.

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/919/oldsarai3az.jpg

Constitution Falls is growing very rapidly but also has a high maintence cost to the economy.

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/9910/constfalls2ah.jpg

I'll would like to apply to be a mayor in West Licentia.

You got it George. You are in charge of Abydos.

I have requested the SoW release both archers from Old Sarai be release to Abydos to quell the masses. There's a warrior currently acting as an MP that I think should be disbanded but that's his call. Once the archers arrive we can release that warrior IMO. The city will be running 1 scientist in the meantime.

Take a look and give me your thoughts.

I don't think the warrior should be disbanded, since he can give +1 happiness to some city that needs it. And if both archers are leaving OS, that city might like a warrior there.

Also in six turns I'll switch from working a forrest tile to working the cottage. After that I don't think Abydos needs any more work from the worker unless we find a way to increase happiness some more.

What speciallist should we get, a scientist or artist?

Whomp.. If you are looking for another mayor. I am interestd. I think with enough time I can turn Old Sarai into a heck of a city. Lots of farms and a few good hills with that iron wll give a fairly heavy production city.

You got it Robboo. Done and done. I like our team we're putting together to whip the wild west into shape. :D

I'm inclined to let Old Sarai grow a bit by working the cottage when it's done. I don't think the court is quite as critical as increasing our cottage output.

Your thoughts would be helpful.

Are you going to change your orders for tomorrow? If Abydos is going to get another happy, we can let it grow. Also, order the DP to switch to the cottage once it's built. I think this will gelp our commerce. I'd also make it more clear to switch production in all cities to courthouse on turn 0.

OK will do though it seems the research department may need our science for a little bit.

No civ pc here...can you tell when the new MP's will arrive? Is it 2 turns?

I think Old Sarai needs to grow a bit before it can reach its potentional. I also think we shouldnt cottage too much of the remaining "farming tiles". I would like to start an aggressive jungle hacking program to clear every jungle tile from the borders to help health in the longer term.

I will work on a map to show you what I mean for Old Sarai I think Const Falls can also be a good city if we dont go cottage crazy. We need to balance the food with the cottages.

Rob's rant: A mistake we appear to be making in this game is we are being reactioanry instead of planning long term. We still have not specialized a single city adn its getting really late. We should have had a Gp farm up and making Gp points, we have no major production city and no specialized science city. Yeah I know that I am preaching to the choir.....BUT it might be time this 2 term SoW and 2 term SoS start looking higher to force some changes.

I don't think you're preaching to the choir when you're talking to the two time MoI about are economy in shambles. I think you should come up with some ideas and take it to the Governor's Council or the Minister of Interior.

And yes, it is two turn travel from OS to Abydos.

Agree George...I will look and see if I can get my ideas on paper.

Whomp
I have a plan for OS..with this plan you will get 41 food, 31 hammers and 12 commerce( which grows to up to 20 or more depending on tech/civics). All the tiles are worked. I would start by eliminating the jungles and farming the 3 southern most river bordered tiles

here is how...No more cottages all other Freshwater tiles(6 grassland and 1 plains) become farms, and mine all the hills( 8 hills, 1 iron). We could trade hammers for lower population and more cottages and make this into a small commerce city of population 11 with 9 cottages, 1 farm, 1 lake tile, about 11 hammers and enough food to support 13 population only.

I think the first choice with 20 population is a self sufficent( enough commerce to cover costs) production city is the better choice. Especially since we are near the borders.

Good plan Robboo. I like how you're thinking with reference to specializing the city to production. The limiting factor for these cities is happiness at 9 :) so getting calendar and incense hooked up will be a big benefit.

The only issue is how do we get worker allocation? Don't we need a new MoI?

Also explain the aversion to cutting trees for important builds?

I think a courthouse is mighty important and cutting the tree 2NW for Abydos doesn't impact the cities health at all.

In Constituion Falls, the city can easily afford the health loss at +15 :health:
I see 6 grass forest (9 total=+3.6 :health:, right?) so speeding up the court there would be most useful as well.

They'd both add 6 :commerce: to the economy with courts.

OK will do though it seems the research department may need our science for a little bit.

No civ pc here...can you tell when the new MP's will arrive? Is it 2 turns?

Our research department would be happier if our economy recovers so we can get the sliders up a bit. Do whatever you feel necassary in the short term.

Our research department would be happier if our economy recovers so we can get the sliders up a bit. Do whatever you feel necassary in the short term.
Boaring Wallow plans to turn off research as its queue so what happens in these three cities will have minimal impact on science since Abydos switching from research to a scientist has a similar impact.
A trade for 40g, calendar and knocking out these courthouses will have a greater impact on our science.

I agree, on the forests. I dont have a problem with chopping it. I forgot about the courthouse.

I don't want to chop forrests. I'd like to save them for our future generations.

Well I say chop them if we NEED them. Besides they can go out of the city for forests...:)

What are your thoughts of throwing a lot of farms around Abydos, building the Globe Theater, and turning it into a GP farm?

It doesn't have that much extra food.

What are your thoughts of throwing a lot of farms around Abydos, building the Globe Theater, and turning it into a GP farm?


Not enough food.. I think one of the other cities with just jungle might be better or someplace like the old mongolia capital with the seafood resources. You need at least 2 food sources and every tile must support 2 food. Just to run 2 specialists.

I really need to go stare at the map and do some figuring...

Abydos should be focused on production and commerce IMO. The forest I'm suggesting a chop is outside of the fat cross but will be given to Abydos.

Constitution Falls has forests to chop and the builds I feel need chops are those that contribute the most to the economy.
Libs, courts (when necessary), unis (for Oxford) and sometimes markets.

Will do. I'll focus on commerce and leave forrests for production.

How about this:
Please change the citizens to work these tiles:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5904/abydos3mq.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abydos3mq.jpg)
When finished with the Courthouse, please start on a Market.
Use the worker to chop the jungle. Do not bother with building any roads, or anything else.

Do these orders sound ok? I can build one more pop so I want to work the other cottage to increase commerce and grow.

I wish the worker would not be cutting jungle on a hill but a forest on the lower left where I can add a farm and get a forest chop boost.

So my order will be stop jungle chop adn move to chop forest on plains near river and then farm that location. I can provide a map tomorrow if you want me to.

For Old Sarai? That would probably be the last spot I'd chop. If you want the courthouse quicker you can work the mine for awhile. I think you should continue the chop and mine that hill. But that's imho.

Let me look a the save and gets some numbers and make some projections for hammer yield and growth with and without the chop.

I understand what you are saying George..but you and I see trees differntly:) That would be the only forest I would chop until I couldnt get the place to grow anymore.

I guess its up to Whomp. Since you or I really cant give orders.

@George regarding Abydos...

The forest on the upper left 2NW is outside of the fat cross. This takes priority in my eyes and should be chopped for Abydos court/market builds.

If we lose the scientist now that we have MP's we can grow faster. Growth is still power in civ4 and there's a 2:food: 1:hammers: tile 2 w of the city.

We need to inquire with the SoW again to see if that warrior should be disbanded. It will be centuries before that guy gets upgraded.

If that warrior is disbanded, we lose one happiness in Abydos.

How about this:
Please change the citizens to work these tiles:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5904/abydos3mq.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abydos3mq.jpg)
When finished with the Courthouse, please start on a Market.
When Abydos the worker is done, have him chop the forrest 2NW of Abydos (the one oustide Abydos's fat cross)

Continue all tasks. If Market finishes this TC (because of the chop) build a Forge next. No specific tasks for the Abydos worker, but do not chop any jungle or forest with him. If the Governor wants him for another city, he can go.
These are my orders for the upcomming TC. Any changes you want?

I think we should switch to forge for happiness and production in Abydos.

It will also accelerate the market by finishing it first. The city is healthy at 13-9 so it can affor to go 13-10. Happiness will go from 10-9 to 12-9. I'm not as concerned about health as happiness. Who cares if they eat a little more than they should? What I won't tolerate is people who don't work.

what do you think for Old Sarai..chop the courthouse with the forest by the river and plant a farm or hold off forest chop and cut jungle/farm.

We need a farm to work next to get the population up. After courthouse..forge???

:yup: court to forge or...

Doesn't mine then cross the river E to chop make sense? I'm also inclined to switch Old Sarai to a forge. The city is 6gpt (4 maintainence). Not horrible.

:hmm: Doesn't Old Sarai scream specialized military center? The city has 7 hills within its fat cross. If we can get those mined and the grasslands farmed this city has some potential to be a force militarily. I also like the fact that it's smack in the middle of the empire. I can't see it being a science center anytime soon.

I say go forge first. And chop it....cross river east and farm that then chop cross river West and farm also.

See post 11 ths thread for my ideas for making this a great military center....41 food/31 hammers/12-20 commerce. That is without adding any benefits from Forge OR possible Iron works??( somewheres else could be better) This is working every single square in the fat cross.

IF I woud be allowed to switch the cottages( just one) to farms..we could run a specialist engineer.


//incidentally George and I can post instructions to the TCIT but they arent "legally bindng"

If I finish the Market first, I'm generating +2 gold per turn. (Gold, not commerce) It will take 20 turns (minus the forest chop), which means we will gain 40 gold if we finish the Market first. Or do you want this:
Switch production to the Forge. If/When that finishes, finish the Market. No specific tasks for the Abydos worker, but do not chop any jungle or forest with him. If the Governor wants him for another city, he can go.
One thing that can happen when I build the Forge is that I can switch from a scientist citizen to an engineer. Should I also switch or keep it as scientist?

//The Governor has named us Mayors and I believe we have all the power that he has delegated to us. Therefore, we can post instructions as if we were the governor ourselves, but only for our cities. That is my take about the legality of our position. Of course the Governor can fire us at any time, so we must follow anything he specifically wants or risk losing our jobs.

I think it's better to finish the forge first. I would also switch to engineer. Go idea.
Go ahead and post instructions.

Whomp please post my instructiosn.. I am headinout in 6 hours and need sleep.

/going buy a new lathe..yipppeeee. My other addiction

metalsmithing?

nope...wood turning. Also do carving and other wood work. It my part time business( very part-time).
cedar bowl 5in diameter
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6782/web3vo.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=web3vo.jpg)

wooden pens...
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6743/img06618ac.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img06618ac.jpg)

Sorry I didnt get them posted in time Whomp. I will check the "damage"

What did you have to research to get wood turning - can't find it on my tech tree? :lol:

Seriously though, nice stuff you've got there.

OK whomp...any more dicussion on Old Sarai or continue chopping jungle, building farms along the river.

Why farms? Just build one extra cottage, and you'll have enough tiles to work for the next 20/25 turns. Health is not a problem yet, use the workers somewhere more usefull.

I have no idea whether any of my instructions were followed on the last TC.

I will look at the save tonight and let you know my thoughts.

@Dutchfire-- Old Sarai will never be a commerce city and it's potential is production so extra food will be necessary to work the hills.

Okay, sorry, but as there are some cottages already, I thought it would become some sort of commerce city. I agree, with that amount of hills, production is a good choice.

Whomp..if I dont post instructiosn for Old Saria by the TC can you post something.

I have my parents in town tonight and I am leaving for a vacation tomorrow with my wife and kids. i will try to post somethign but you can over rule it. If it doenst fit in with your overall plan especially since Old Sarai might be a little way form growth and the worker maybe needed elsewhere for a few turns..(Globe theatre..chopping/improving)

Here is the current screen of Abydos:
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5460/abydos1eb.th.jpg (http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abydos1eb.jpg)
In one turn it will finish the forge. Due to the war, it is suggested that I not continue the Market (which will only add +2.5 gpt right now) and build units. If I keep the citizens where they are now, Abydos will grow in 5 turns. Building the forge will icrease the happiness to 10 due to the Gems. Should I allow it to grow to 10 or keep it at 9? If I keep it at 9 I have a little more time before the war weariness affects the city. Or just grow to 10 and deal with weariness later?

Here is my proposed orders:
After finishing the Forge, change the specialists from one scientist to one engenier. Then cancel the Market and build in this order: [edit: I have asked the MoW to supply this order to me. I will just copy whatever he asks.]
Send Abydos the worker to 2 south of the city and chop the jungle along the river. Then cottage that spot.

Anything I should change? It will take 11 turns to finish the Market after the Forge is built and I let the city grow to 10.

I think its time to build some units...any info what our SoW wants yet?

Yep units it is. I'd think speed is of great importance but that's his call.

George I like your plan and maintaining a little slack by staying at size 9.

Whomp...
I think we should drop the forge at Old Sarai and build archer then and ax. IF we reconfigure teh workers for max hammers whiel allowing some starvation for a few turns we can produce an archer in about 5 turns and an ax in 7 or so. Based on what I see of our units distribution...those 2 units will probably end up being our defenders in 20 turns. I also want to move the worker norht one tile and have him chop...that will finish the ax in a lot less turns.

The situation sure isnt rosey...I have seen this before in my own games...We need peace quickly or lots of luck with the RNG

:scared: Dang. Would it be possible for either of you to post of picture of Const. Falls and Old Sarai. I'd like to see the state of affairs and forgot to post last night.

Gov. Whomp-

I just noticed that Const. Falls is not directly connected to the country's road network. Perhaps a worker could take care of this in case we have to reinforce it quickly?

I'm hoping to see where we are at on the worker tasks. There were a few errors on the previous turnset so I'd like to see where we are at. Roads and mines will undoubtedly take priority at this point.

be right back with your pictures..say 15 to 20 minuites. I have to get my kids dressed and settled in front of a DVD.

pictures coming....next post

build time consti falls ( add 1 turn to each for Old sarai)
sword 8
ax 7
spear 7
archer 5
cross 12
char 5
hors archer 10

In Consti falls I suggest whipping 3 citizens to build your forge that will cut your build time but not by much since teh population will need to grow. I think this needs to be done inorder to save Basillica and Const falls. IF they get past Const Falls and Old Sarai..this game is over.

const falls
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8630/civ4screenshot00237dm.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00237dm.jpg)

Old sarai
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9433/civ4screenshot00221uy.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot00221uy.jpg)

I sounds mighty bleak. Will archers be a factor?

personally..I think Bismark has mounted units and maces/crossbows....it wont be fun. IF Basillica can last 10 tursn we have a chance..if we can out produce him even with inferior units( archers). Since they will slow the advance.

Archers I think are fooder adn desperation to stall teh advance. I hope I am wrong but i do not expect Bismark to roll over in 10 turns as some have said. The power numbers indicate otherwise as well as his manufactoring numbers.Russia may well be the key to us lasting. Cant predict what Bismark will do if they attack.

As we talked about in PM last week...economy this bad and now the war..it doesnt look good. The capture of the last Mongolian cities killed our economy adn we have been playing catch up too long.

I just noticed that Const. Falls is not directly connected to the country's road network. Perhaps a worker could take care of this in case we have to reinforce it quickly?
I volunteer Abydos worker to do that. I have nothing but busy work for him. I will post instructions to make a road to Cosnt Falls and then have him make sure there are roads to our other cities.

May i bring it to your attention Whomp, but you have still not posted instructions for the MoI nor your Govenorship of West Licentia. The TC will be about 15 hours from now so I would appretiate it if you gave your intructions as your positions are important and we are at war now :).

Done and done Vind. I'm not sure how specific I can be as MoI since workers are going to need to flee on occassion. I suggested a focus on roads, mines and forest chops if necessary. I think the best course of action is to empower you as the turnplayer what the order should be.

good call on the horse archer whomp...those 5 extra turns will be made up in movement turns.

I alwasy forget to factor in movement time.

/that is the second thing that you have taught me since being mayor..forges to help happines when gems and now this. hope you dont mind me using that when BC and I beat up on you and tubby

/that is the second thing that you have taught me since being mayor..forges to help happines when gems and now this. hope you dont mind me using that when BC and I beat up on you and tubby
Heh....that's what I'm here for padawan. Just call me Bruce Lee when my fists of iron teach you some new tricks.