GOTM 56 - India!


Civilization: India
Rivals: 7 pre-selected.
Barbarians: Restless
Difficulty: Monarch
Land Form: Continent, 70% ocean, small map.
Geology: 5 billion years old, normal, temperate

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm56large.jpg
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm56mini.jpg

Conquest-Class Bonuses:
Start with a bonus worker & settler.


Predator-Class Equalisers:
AIs each start with an extra settler & worker.

Crowded small map, no bonuses of any kind in sight, possibly aggressive neighours rubbing up against us soon... how to survive 'til Jumbos come on line to kick butt?

Send the worker W to reveal as many tile as possible.

If nothing good turns up, settle in place and build a couple of warriors. Then we'll know if we'll need a granary or a settler next.

Plenty of forests but chops are 10 turns in PtW :(

I think I will move the settler first - to NW. Having a BG (maybe another one on the river?) immediately will be good compensation for this lost turn.

Depending on what we see I might let the worker chop the forrest first. But if there's anything more interesting than grassland / plains on the river, he will go there.

Ah, the PtW elephant; just like a knight only worse. For a comitted disconnect/reconnect player, the ability to build resourceless knights in no way makes up for the inability to build horses after the discovery of Chivalry. So is there some catch here? e.g. no horses on our continent.

Now it becomes clear what I vagely remembered when I thoght, those Predator handicaps were a little - uninspired :mischief:.

A nice discussion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=124200&postcount=4) was ignited by those smart Predator class equalisers back in Cotm15 :D

And how do you turn elephants into cavalry? Put them on a good diet? :lol:

Well I've long since decided that any units that require resources are essentialy useless since I hardly ever have access to the required resources. I have become a great fan of longbows recently for this very reason.

So I'll move NW and settle, work the bg and chop a forest. I might go for something cultural or a science game (I'm not cut out for war).

@Paul#42
Yeah, I remember the discussion, and at the time I didn't quite understand what the fuss was all about: that was the game that I learned to use short-rushing to amass a big military. I didn't learn the power of disconnect/reconnect until a couple of games later, possibly the Arabian GOTM.

@Taxpayer
Ah, the longbow; just like a mace only cooler-looking. Next time we have a green civ, I will have to build loads of them and indulge Robin Hood fantasy :)

From what we see here, I agree with NW; let's get that beegee working 9 turns sooner... but there's so much nearby land that we can't see. Beegees or food bonuses in the fog would change the plan significantly, so I guess my worker still must scout W first.

just like a mace only cooler-looking.

Nothing looks cooler than an Indian Medieval Infantry.

They somehow remind me of this song:
http://www.mp3lyrics.org/m/manowar/battle-hymns/

That start looks awfully benign for a xOTM game. Despite the handicap for the modern era endgames, I'll probably play it in Vanilla, for two reasons:
I really enjoy all the cool stuff in the GOTM modpack that isn't found anywhere else, and really appreciate all that hard work done by others. :D
I went to the trouble of downloading that monster modpack last month on dial-up. :dubious:

A bold move would be settling NW, chopping the forest, researching Pottery immediately and go for a granary gambit. But given the number of opponents there's the risk of an immediate conquest loss. Moreover, Pottery could be widely known and a min run on Writing could be more rewarding. We'll see after the save game is downloaded.

Anyway...

Predator Conquest Challenge

Dare you to compete? :evil:

A bold move would be settling NW, chopping the forest, researching Pottery immediately and go for a granary gambit. But given the number of opponents there's the risk of an immediate conquest loss. Moreover, Pottery could be widely known and a min run on Writing could be more rewarding. We'll see after the save game is downloaded.

Anyway...

Predator Conquest Challenge

Dare you to compete? :evil:


ok, i'm in

Looks good. I want to see some Elephants storming across the continent. Too bad we didn't get to be purple India. Settler NW to settle next to the BG. Chop forest for quick granary.

I don't understand why so many people are eager to chop the forest. This will delay the first mine by about 10 turns and by that cost nearly as much as you gain from the chop.
You don't know, if there is another interesting tile out there by just moving the settler.
And you cannot change your mind to settler before granary then w/o wasting a lot of shields.

only 8 tiles are water tiles and next to a river and 12 pop possible early on...
20k here we go!

I don't understand why so many people are eager to chop the forest. This will delay the first mine by about 10 turns and by that cost nearly as much as you gain from the chop.
You don't know, if there is another interesting tile out there by just moving the settler.
And you cannot change your mind to settler before granary then w/o wasting a lot of shields.

I was thinking about this also. Assuming you do the same worker moves after the chop, that you would do instead of chopping, it delays the first mine by exactly 10 turns, so you gain 10 shields and lose 10 shields. Zero sum? Hardly; it also delays everything else the worker does by 10 turns. The chop should wait until the town is about to run out of grassland to work, or the worker has nothing better to do (i.e. the town is not in danger of working unimproved tiles). Of course there is one possible upside in chopping, the chance to reveal a beegee. There's the gamble... but for sure I won't start with a chop.
After a couple of industrious civs, these workers seem so slow! :cry:

I don't understand why so many people are eager to chop the forest. This will delay the first mine by about 10 turns and by that cost nearly as much as you gain from the chop.
You don't know, if there is another interesting tile out there by just moving the settler.
And you cannot change your mind to settler before granary then w/o wasting a lot of shields.

Well, it is tempting to begin the chop right away because you start on the forest. I like to at least road any tile I have a Worker on before moving off. This can save you time in the long run as you can move on ther road and begin your mine or irrig on the same turn. Of course in this case roading does not help much because there is a river blocking and it is still a two turn move to get to the visible BG.

You might get lucky and uncover a BG once you chop the forest. This would be ideal and you could immediately begin to mine right after the chop. There is another forest so you can work that for two sheilds still. But the clincher is the ability to pop from one forest to the next forest for two quick chops and a superfast granary first build. This will give you a slight edge on the competition.

Yes, I am also tempted to go straight to the BG and start mining. That makes great sense. You can save the forests for well-timed chops that give you quick Settlers. I think I am convinced that the best plan here is to go with one or two quick chops and a granary first. Then a couple of Warriors.

SR

BTW, how are you able to put four units into an Army without having built the Pentagon?

Then settling NW, the most obvious possibility, doesn't reach it. Just thought I'd throw that in there to muddle the Mind.

On the other hand, NW opens up the possibility of having a 3-ring with towns due N and S.

The chop forest/granary gambit strikes me as having several drawbacks. Later warriors to search out our FRIENDS and resources. Later roads to cash in on that river, beat paths for our settlers, and connect us to our FRIENDS (don't know how to make it look bloodthirstier than that) and resources. Plus the zero sum factor klarius pointed out.

Worker W or NW? The first appears to expose two extra G tiles with possible resources. The second gets the worker closer to the sure BG.

Moving the settler NW first risks delaying the settlement if W is better, but you won't know if it's better if you don't send someone W on the first turn.

I guess I like mv Settler NW the best because of the 3-ring spots, just hope they don't have resources on them that make me regret it. I'd rather mine BG on the river, but the mv wkr W only exposes G tiles off the river.

Alas...

According to Murphy's Law, wherever you found the capital, it will always turn out to be RCP3 from a bonus food source.

Here's another little thought about that beegee... without bonus food, the town grows only at the same speed that the worker can do move+road+mine, so why go for the beegee first? If one improves other grasses first, the town will still always be working the beegee plus any other improved tiles, at least until it builds a granary or settler.

don't know how to make it look bloodthirstier than thatHow's this?

Later roads...connect us to our FRIENDS victims and future land holdings.

With the strikethrough left in...

Chop first also saves a (movement) turn of the worker - so it gains one shield over using the BG. Of course this comparison is foul because in the long run a mined and roaded BG is more valuable / we would have to invest this worker effort later...

However even with chop first we can produce a single warrior first (using the BG at 2spt), so we won't completely abstain from exploration.

But as I pointed out earlier: I will only consider chop first, if our settler reveals no other BG on the river which of course is more valuable. With so few BGs I would gamble on finding one under the trees. This would be the real value of the chop.

But I might also hit for a long walk along the river if the area is so uninspiring...

According to Murphy's Law, wherever you found the capital, it will always turn out to be RCP3 from a bonus food source.
Good point. Maybe that will help me sleep tonight.

Here's another little thought about that beegee... without bonus food, the town grows only at the same speed that the worker can do move+road+mine, so why go for the beegee first? If one improves other grasses first, the town will still always be working the beegee plus any other improved tiles, at least until it builds a granary or settler.
True and interesting point. Especially if you're getting an extra doubloon in the process. But after the settler hikes, the town goes to one and the mined BG produces double. Plus, you still have the option of using a forest for a five-shield with pop 2.

Predator Conquest Challenge sounds good to me.

Although I might play it open and use domination vc :p

A sure contender and a probable one. Good. Anyone else to join?

EDIT: oh, yes. Thinking about it better, the chop+granary option seems crappy. The landmass is limited, the map is overcrowded, and the enemies have a bonus settler. It means little space for self expansion. Probably the granary can be skipped entirely.

I'll join the PCC for sure. Need a good fast warfare game after the MMing hell in 55...

I'll start on PCC, now. We'll see if I'll have time to finish it.

The picture reveals nothing, so first Settler and Worker moves and Warrior exploration will influence the early decisions. I'd like to move away from having an over-seas tile within the capital fat cross, since chances are that that tile will belong to some-one else. Coast is good as is BG at close distance for the first ten turns.

Now that I am done with the Persian 20K adventure. I too need a short game. So it is PCC for me too. Not that I am ready to go predator route. But, that is just the evolution of the game.:crazyeye: