Utopia: A place in which there is sociopolitical perfection.
Culture: The beliefs, customs, arts and institutions of a society.

Diplomacy Victory!

The Kings of Babylon:

joespaniel ---------
Sirian -------------
donsig ------------
Knight-Dragon -----
Charis -------------

Please check this page for turn order and updates.

Play up to 20 turns, no minimum.
Monarch difficulty level.
All settings random.
v1.17 patch in effect.

"This looks like a good spot to settle. Pitch tents!"

Shldn't we make it a seaport as well since it's only one tile away?

I'm in favor of port cities. :) If we are going for culture and diplomacy, the ancient era is a good place for Culture, and the Colossus is a bargain at only 200 shields. Plus, harbors are usually needed to start trading with distant civs early. We'd still be on the river, too.

I'd also like to see irrigation of that cattle and wheat. :hammer:


- Sirian

Ah, anoither SG where I can just sit back and whatch... ah...

Glad you didn't include me, I don't want to play.

By the way, where did you say you were making this?:confused: Just Curious. I would have postied this there...

Originally posted by Ohwell
By the way, where did you say you were making this?:confused: Just Curious. I would have postied this there...


I don't want another game right now, but I am also curious where the opening came from.

I will take your suggestions and build our capitol on the coast.
I was contemplating the same thing. :D

I have no idea what land masses or # of tribes there are, as I set all factors on random. Barbarians also.
However, judging from the size of the mini-map, I am guessing its a standard size world at best. Thus there are probably 8 civs.
Exploration will be fun!

Could you post the starting map...I at least would like to try and play the same turns and see what differences there are between my humble attempts and the experts.

Our people wish to live on the sea, where property values are higher, thus our capitol, Babylon, is founded at the rivers mouth.
An abundance of fish is discovered! A new tradition, fish on Friday, is begun. :D

Our learned collegues devote their time and effort to the art of making war. Our neighbors are barbaric savages, who must be tromped upon and riddled with arrows.

Yes, a large number of small tribes are encountered nearby, some of which are friendly and teach us an alphabet and to make pottery. Many other tribes turn agressive and attack our emissaries. :eek:

We meet a man called Lincoln in our wanderings. He leads the Americans, who are advanced in science and live to the nearby west. He is scrappy looking, and doesnt wish to trade with us. We offer a razor as a token gift. ;)

Zounds!! Another tribe is discovered to our north! These people are REALLY aggressive, and led by a mean old troll who calls himself BISMARK! He is annoyed with us...

As I said, our world seems to be plagued with raging barbarians. We have lost 4 legions of warriors fighting them off. Many of those survivng are now elite fighters. Our new bowmen have had much better luck squashing these pests.

My efforts have been to expand and form new cities, before America or Germany claim all the good real estate.
Continued exploration has yielded nothing yet.
We are close to perfecting masonry and will leave it up to the next King to decide if we want to build Pyramids, Colossus or Great Library.

Good luck Sirian. :goodjob:

Home sweet home! :D

The dots are only "suggested" city sites.
If you find better ones, by all means, build elsewhere.

So far, all our cities will grow to size12 without aquaducts.:D

I was expanding towards America first, so as to get that Silk near Fishpond before they do. :hammer:

The little buggers expand fast!

Perhaps a good solid five or six cities should be established right away...
Having The Germans as neighbors makes me nervous! :eek:

Barbarians are out of control!!!:crazyeyes
It must be raging, or at least close.
Beware of the workers and settlers, I almost lost some.
Bowmen make mince meat out of them though. :goodjob:

Inherited Turn: vetoed military production. Swapped Babylon and Cattle Crossing to temples, Fishpond to worker.

Early turns: continued exploration around German lands in the north with our elite warrior. Defended fishpond vs the incoming barbarians, one bowman promoted to veteran, then charged out and cleaned up the barb camp while regular guarded the town. Built temples in Babylong and CC, set them to settlers next.

Middle turns, explored behind Berlin. Traded Alphabet to Germans for The Wheel, spotted all kinds of horsies in our lands. Finished Masonry, started us on Writing. Sent our second elite warrior east to attack a barb camp near those silks. Germans founded Hamburg near CC, on a horsie. :( Their lands are really poor and they will be coming our way, I decide priority is to establish borders with Germany, set up cultural pressures to flip Hamburg to us some day. Our settlers go east. Silkton founded. Finished writing, started Literature. Traded something (forget what) to Germany for Horseback Riding. (It was a good deal, don't worry).

Late Turns: Deerdale founded in a spot to put pressure on Hamburg. One more pressure city ought to do the trick, on their back side or around to their west. Another worker trained at Fishpond (we really need land improvements badly!) Uh oh, the Americans have a settler pair beelining for the river in the west, just as Joe predicted. I pull our garrison out of town and start a big shuffle and dance, blocking their path. THANK GOODNESS for that little lake up there, it served as a third blocker and allowed me to keep the Americans at bay!

Traded Contact with Germany and some gold to America for Contact with France, who then immediately offered contact with Iros for Contact with Germany and some gold. Our treasury went byebyes, but I think it was worth it.

Overtime: things were just a bit dicey with the Americans. I can salvage the best result for us with a couple more turns, and since Joe says "Peaceful" and "Cultural/Diplomatic" there's no option to attack the Americans, so it's he-who-grabs-owns, and I intend to grab some more. Temple and barracks (priority projects!) vetoed at Fishpond and Cattle Crossing, in favor of settlers. MUST... HURRY...

Whew! I pulled it off, an almost Baltimorean move (ala RBD3) with the blocking there. Fishpond went undefended (and still is) with barbarians on the loose, and I don't know if I could do it again if you asked me to. :) I literally stalemated the Americans for more than ten turns! Solstice Tree and Peaceful Prairie founded to our west. Let's hope "Peaceful Prairie" doesn't turn out to be an ironic choice of name for our border city. :lol:


Spices and horsies about to come online. Worker can go connect silks at Silkton soon. Babylon is building Colossus but SHOULD BE swapped to Great Library in five turns when we research Literature. (Iros started Pyramids early and it would be very risky to race them for it). Also, I'd like to see that wheat irrigated, we can grow our capital much larger much sooner with that. After the Great Library, we can go back and get the Colossus, which will kick off our Golden Age (might as well, and use the time to build temples and libraries in all our towns for massive ancient culture push without having to do much, if any, whipping). We also need granaries, but I can't do everything even stretching into overtime. :)

Germany keeps sliding back to Annoyed. However, if we establish embassy with him and then maintain Right of Passage, he may cheer up and calm down. I spent all our cash on trades, though, so we currently don't have enough to do this.

We need some barracks soon, and more troops. I built a couple of bows at Babylon, but mostly settlers, workers, and temples.


- Sirian

Here's a shot of our nation after my reign. Oh almost forgot, Deedale needs a worker after its temple is done, need lots of irrigation there.

Can we go for the incense north of Cattle Crossing? Or the one east?

I think if we need to fight, by all means go ahead. Cultural development is all good but sometimes cold steel is needed to defend culture. ;)

Let's build more cities! :)

Those are gold, not incense KD. I know its hard to see on the zoom out, so I wont make any "glasses" jokes. ;)

There is a spice tile at cattle crossing (I wanted to name it after a spicy beef dish, but couldnt think of one).

Good turn, Sirian! Well done. I like all our city names. :D

Blocking the Americans was a masterpiece. Now lets get Hamburg to flip, and as Knight-Dragon said, build more cities.

Building as many near Babylon is, obviously, smart for the least corruption. The spot west of cattle-crossing is still prime. It could be a very important port city in the future, so lets grab it quick.

The AI will keep up with or surpass us in science at this difficulty level, so I agree, lets get the Great Library ASAP. If we get both TGL and the Colossus after, we will be in good shape. :)

There is no set rule against war, but I do like how we have avoided it so far. I myself had to clench my teeth and not slap the Americans into the next continent. As it turns out, it was the right move.

The culture take over of Hamburg would be a great victory for us. Lets go for it. Germany would be seriously weakened.

Donsig is up, you have your work cut out for you. Good luck!:goodjob:

Knight-Dragon is on deck.

I'm up already!:eek: It's also my turn in the German game. Drat I guess I'll have to spend my whole day off tomorrow playing Civ III.:D

Originally posted by donsig
I'm up already!:eek: It's also my turn in the German game. Drat I guess I'll have to spend my whole day off tomorrow playing Civ III.:D Take your time. I won't be around till Sunday to play after you in both the German and Babylonian SGs. ;)

Pssst!!! Hey! Somebody wake Charis up...

... :smoke: ...

Huh? Wha? Oh! Hi everyone! I finally got wind of this
game and joespaniel's invitation, and I would be happy to join
you folks for a friendly game. (Well, not so friendly for the AI, but that's another matter) :D

I've been following the posts and stories and games of most of you for a while now, so good to get a chance to game together.

:hammer:
Charis

Glad you could make it.:D

Charis, I have you after Knight-Dragon, if thats OK.

Basicaly, there are no rules or restrictions, but our main goal is to get a culture victory, so we are working towards that.

I think Germany and/or America will attack us fairly soon, so when they do we will have liscense to take a few (read: all) of their cities. ;)

We'll see what happens. Above all else, everyone have fun with it! :D

Tinirta-nadin-sumi ('Tiny' for short) seizes power in Babylon in 1125 BC (Before Charis). His forty year reign is unremarkable, highlighted only by the completion of the Spice Road and the 'Tiny temple' in Deerdale. The Americans continued to expand towards Babylon by founding Seattle. Despite these inauspicious beginnings Tiny's descendants would rule Babylon for over 400 years.

The American encrouchment continued while Tiny's son, Tiny Too, held power: San Fran was founded near the twin cities. German settlers were also active in the north, heading for the west coast. Tiny Too dispatched troops in an effort to block their settlement. The settlers were temporarily stalled but Hapappan barbarians were also becoming active in the area.

The next three generations of this dynasty were reminescent of Tiny I: not much of importance happened (except for the emergence of Babylonian literature). Bit-Iakin did dispatch a small army of bowmen and spearmen to the north to deal with the Harappans. Babylonian warriors did defeat the Harrapans in a pitched battle only to be ambushed later by Harrapan horsemen.

In 990 BC Bit-Iakin's son, Nabopolassar, took charge of the Babylonian government and army. He led the army north towards the Harrapan camps while directing that roads be built to give Babylon access to iron and silks.

After 15 years of campaigning against the Harrapans disaster loomed: the main Babylonian army was off near the barbarian camps when Harrapan horsemen occupied the mountains north of Cattle Crossing - which was undefended. Two unescorted workers labored at the foot of the mountains. Cattle Crossing had grown and a band of settlers was about to be formed - unless scattered by the barbarians. The workers ran in different directions, Cattle Crossing braced for the worst as Nabopolassar successfully beseiged the Harappan camp. A band of workers was subsequently slaughtered by the infamous horsemen while the other workers and the new band of settlers rendevoused with Babylonian military forces that had rushed to the scene. The Harappan horsemen sacked Cattle Crossing in 925 BC before disappearing from history.

While this was going on, Babylonian warriors continued in their efforts to block the German settlers even further north. The Germans finally stopped running and built a city in the desert. Bismark the Grouch immediately ordered the Babylonian warriors out of German territory and they complied.

A string of lesser known despots continued the dynasty. The temple of Silkton was finished in 900 BC and the Iron road was completed at about the same time. Babylonian settlers headed for the jungle north the the desert German city. More German settlers were active near Hamburg. The Fishpond Temple was constructed in 825 BC.

Nabopolassar's distant descendant, Nebuchadrezzar, came to power in 810 BC. One of his first acts was to order the mapping of his entire empire. Abe of the Americans wanted to sell his map for 20 gold, abylonian maps and Baylonian literature. Nebuchadrezzar countered with an offer to trade the literature for American legal writings but no deal could be agreed upon. The Babylonians would have to come up with their own code of laws...

The biggest problem of Nebuchadrezzar's stint in power is: the Germans. German setters are headed for the prime real estate that Nebuchadrezzar's mapmakers have found. Nabopolassar's old northern army is poised outside the German desert city. Can war be averted?

More to come...

Nebuchadrezzar died in 779 BC and his last words were, "Keep the Germans away from my river!". His son and successor, Nabu-nasir vowed to fulfill this last wish. Nebuchadrezzar died in peace but his dreams went unfulfilled. Twenty years later the German settlers and their archer escort reached the hills at the mouth of the Euphrates. There they founded the city of Munich and Nabu-nasir ordered his troops to leave German territory. Nabu-nasir and his son Ilu Bani would send them back to Hermany time and again over the next fifty years only to order the withdrawl whenever challenged by Bismark.

The city of Jungle Fish was founded in 690 BC. Shortly thereafter a band of settlers heading for the old Harappan campsite were ambushed by Burgundian warriors.:(

Hammurabi succeeded his father (Nabu-naid) in 689 BC. He founded the city of Wheat River near Hamburg. Hammurabi oversaw the completion of internal improvements including the Great Temple at Peaceful Prairie and the road to Deerdale. He is best known for the code of laws he devised for his empire.

The Donsig Dynasty did not invest in any military improvements at all so beware... The Germans were a pain and I was sorely tempted to attack them right before I made the first summary post. I had to walk away for a bit because I was seriously thinking about killing their archer, capturing their settler and then razing Frankfurt. I got past that and then really got ticked when they built Munich. It was too late to attack then.

We have a big culture lead though.:) Three wonders are in progress. We have more than enough shields in Babylon to build the Collosus. It is working on the Oracle... if we plan on going republican soon we may want this one!

The other two cities working on wonders don't have many shields stockpiled yet so switching should not lose anything to overruns.

We still have room to build three cities with out fighting... just watch out for the barbarians NW of Cattle Crossing.

Donsig - did we get the Great Library? I didnt see anything in the summary (which was good by the way).

The city placement is a little dicey, but could be usefull as "German bait".
I fear war is imminent. More bowmen would be in order.
Frankfurt and Munich would make nice additions to our empire. :D
I would raze Hamburg now that it lies in-between 2 of our cities.

Knight-Dragon is away until Sunday, so Charis is free to take his turn today (Saturday).

*Our city that lies closest to Washington, Peacefull Prairie, needs a culture improvement quickly, to grab the territory in between us and them. Unless it already has one, ofcourse.

*One more city could still be founded west of Cattle Crossing.

*Lets get the Great Library in Babylon, then the Colossus.
Iroquois is too far ahead on the Pyramids for us to catch up.

No, no wonders were built yet. I switched to the Oracle but it can certainly be switched to the Great Library. Two more cities started wonders more as reminders that they are available than to actually build them in those cities. They can be switched to something else without losing shields.

I do think the Oracle would help us switch to republic faster and that switch would help flip the German cities.

What happens if a city flips and you refuse it? Does it go away (as if razed) or just remain part of the original country?

I built Wheat River in the hopes of putting max culture pressure on Germany.

BTW, I did not use the whip at all.

670 BC (0) - Charis Hammurabi (aka the HAMMER :hammer: ) came into power when
the people were parlyzed with fear of the Germans. He surveyed both the
royal annals and the sitatuion carefully...

The first thing that gave his heart a lil jump was the iron west of
Solstice that was equidistant between themselves and San Fran.
The people of Solstice then heard a rousing speech about the good of the
nation, and would have been whipped if so many shields weren't already
invested. We switch food squares to forests and should see it done in 5.

Peaceful prarie (great name!) will expand borders to 'lock' the border
with America. If we had a ton of units, there would be a wall of men
at this chokepoint, but that's weedy thinking right now...

Fishpond (another great name) is in desperate need of mining the hills
if it really wants to build a wonder :P In fact, that's just not plausible,
let's put it on Library instead.

Wonders... I wonder. Since this game has a very cultural feel to it,
the Oracle "fits", although its benefit for happiness expires FAR too
soon. No one has started the Great Library.

The 'Hammer' does not fear Germany, he scorns them! Lower in power as well
as culture, their capitol hides in Shame in the darkness!! We trade territory
maps with him to see our foe and expose him as a fraud. Six cities, that's it.

650 BC (1) - That blowhard tells me to get my bowman off his land. The hammer
quietly smiles and says "My mistake", but he starts a military build up..

630 BC (2) - Peaceful Prarie is 'encourage' to hurry its library, and lo! Done!
Looking at the American list of cities, btw, they're the ones to fear, not
Germany.

610 BC (3) - Gentlemen, the hammer would like to present...

.. The Oracle of Babylon! :hammer:

590 BC (4) - Philosophy must have been discoverd, due early. We buy from
Lincoln logs for a penny and start Republic. (BTW, Babylon is off to the
races already, starting the Great library)

570 BC (5) - A census shows not a single barracks thoughout the land!!
We start one immediately at Deerdale.

550 BC (6) - Deerdale must have gotten some kind of fire lit, that Barracks
is already done! At some point, troops from this kind city will raze Hamburg.

530 BC (7) - The Hammer literally busts a gut in laughter! Bismarck of the
foolish Germans, (cough) *demands* (ha!!!!!!!) Literature from our puny civ
to (cough) show respect??!! Our ambassador says "You have chosen unwisely.
People will ask of your ex-nation, OMG whatever happened to the Prussians?!
Do you speak with Charis the Timid, or Charis the Hammer?! Ye shall soon see!"

He's told to take his empty threats and... [CENSORED from the eyes of the
refined populace of Babylon!]

"Hehe, uh... er... you DO have some backbone??? Just kidding, hahahaha!"
Barracks spring up all over, in no time, bowmen start to appear, Spearmen
sharpen their blades. Mothers take their children inside to not see what
will soon happen..."

510 BC (8) - The effort of the people at Solstice has pulled the iron into
our territory!

490 BC (9) - Start a setller to found a city on the coast NW of Cattle crossing.

470 BC (10) - A quiet turn...

430 BC (12) - London completes the pyramids. (Let's see what cascades)

410 BC (13) - Americans and Iro shift to Great Wall, likely in progress.

390 BC (14) - Iroquois FINISH the Great Wall. In progress, indeed!
The Americans do NOT cascade, nor anyone else, yay!! Know what that means...
The ONLY wonders being built right now are, by US! Great Library has
21 turns to go in Babylon and is a shoe-in. The Colossus has 43 turns
in Silktown, but no opposition. I've been going min science almost my whole
turn, simply due to how long it takes even at max rate. With the GL to become
ours, keeping min/zero rate (with one scientist) will be the way to go.

370 BC (15) - Seems a good stopping point, after 15 turns (up to 20 right?)
The Hammer is kicked out of office on charges of incessant whipping.
He pleads "nolo contestare" but vows "You'll call me back to duty someday,
I guarantee it!!!" :hammer:

Thoughts...
- With republic due in about 29 turns, it would be nice if that is when we
were taking the last German city :P We now have 12 mil units (incl 6 bowmen)
and are making three. That's up from 8 making 1, but still WAY low. We're
allowed 36 units free in despotism and only have 16.
- Start the attack on Germany before too long, and **before** they hook up
the Iron outside Heidelburg. (If connected, make cutting it a top priority
in the campaign.)
- It only takes 5 units to form a man-wall to cut off America. Not that we
have 5 to spare now, but keep that in mind.

Good luck!
Charis

Here's a shot of the current situation.:)

Excellent work guys! You can bet this game will be high on my watch list. Keep up the good work.

Garsonga :goodjob:

Another excellent turn! Well done Charis. http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/happy/thumb.gif
You, donsig and Sirian have set the standard high.

Knight-Dragon is up now, and will get his wish:
Its time for war, Germany must go! http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/armed/behead.gif
Then we will have the continent to ourselves.

I think Hamburg should be razed, as it is smack in the middle of 2 good cities, but Munich is deffinately worth keeping, if possible.
I trust Knight-Dragon to determine what stays or goes. :whipped:
Berlin wouldnt be a bad spot for a Forbidden Palace someday...:enlighten
http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/angry/elaugh.gif Mwa-ha-ha!

Good luck KD.:goodjob:

Our situation looks good but we don't have the army to invade Germany yet. :( Our available forces are practically nil....

So I'll concentrate on building up our forces and found three more cities. ;) We also need better def in those cities of us smacked up in Germany; they'll be hit hard when we war.

joe will get to keep his reputation as THE warmonger and we'll all follow in his footsteps. :lol:

Highlights : -

350 BC - France established an embassy with us. They'd be a valuable ally if the Americans ever attked us. ;)

310 BC - America built a new city south of Solstice Tree in the artic area. So generous of them! Some day, that settlement will bear a suitably Babylonish name. :)

Established embassies with America, Germany and Iroquise. Cheap now.

290 BC - Founded Shun-Kharand NW of CC.

210 BC - Americans building Colossus. Hmmm.

170 BC - France building the GL. Too late for them. :)

150 BC - France offered poly to us for 72 gold (as in polytheism; not that other site). We took it.

90 BC - Founded Shun-Taresh NW of Fishpond.

30 BC - Bought currency fr the Iroquise for 124 gold. We're slipping behind in tech....

End

An army of 5 swordsmen poised outside the Hamburg border (HINT! HINT!). The Age of Words is ending and the Age of Deeds shall begin. :D

Note - Figure you'll know what to do, joe. :) Remember we can build one more city NE of Silkton. ;) Also, the GL in 2 turns and the Colossus in 7 (I think).

Our present empire....

The invasion will soon begin. :D

Sounds good Knight-Dragon, I will do my best.

One question:
If TGL is done in 2 turns, why pay 200 gold for tech we will get for free?
:rolleyes: ;) :lol:

OK, even I make mistakes sometimes. :D
I still have to tease you about it, because your such a warmonger!:lol:

I will take my turns later, as work beckons.
Imagine, I get paid (and paid well, I might add) for serving libations.
There is a God. :)

I think Munich could be razed as well and a city built on the other side of the river on the coast.

One question:
If TGL is done in 2 turns, why pay 200 gold for tech we will get for free?
:rolleyes: ;) :lol:It's a secret plan of mine. :) It's buried so deep in the recesses of my diablolical mind that I even keep the actual details fr my conscious self.

Oh yeah, I forgot. It was kind of late at night.....

I think Munich could be razed as well and a city built on the other side of the river on the coast.Munich is OK; and we can squeeze in one more city SE of it, on that forest patch NE of Silkton on the coast. ;)

Hamburg shld be razed though. Eyesore. :mad:

I think Munich is already in the prime location. I vote Capture.

(Hey what happened to "peaceful diplomacy"? I guess that's AKA in these parts for finding at yourself at the business end of a sword? :lol: ).

- Sirian

We can do the peaceful diplomacy stuff after getting rid of Germany. :) They got incense and gems. Too juicy to pass up. Now is a good time to take them out before they become even more powerful.

We need lebensraum! :viking:

I have to go to work (again!) today, but will have time tomorow (finally!) to play.

Im probably going to beat up the Germans something fierce, but in a "cultural" and "enlightening" way ofcourse. :p :lol:

I think our future depends on rolling them back, otherwise I would be against it. Wish me luck, Im going to need it against them.

Originally posted by joespaniel
Wish me luck, Im going to need it against them. Yeah, whatever. As if you need it. :p

Just think 'panzer fumes' joespaniel. That should put you in the proper mood for the work ahead.;)

The completion of the Great Library incited a Golden Age in Babylon!
We aquired Construction and the Republic, which catapulted us into a new era. We then aquired Monotheism!
Research was devoted to Theology, and the sciences were given a hefty boost in revenue.

The city of Hamburg revolted and came over to our side, and averted a war. A settler was :whipped:, and the city disbanded.
Hamburg is no more.

Production in Silkton was switched to Lighthouse, and Babylon to Colossus. America finished the Lighthouse 2 turns ahead, then almost on cue, the Great Library gave up Monarchy and the Hanging Gardens were finished in 1 turn. :D

The despotic government was overthrown, and a Monarchy installed. We are not able to support a Republic yet, but very soon. Marketplaces are underway in many cities, which need to grow a little too. Besides, with only one turn of anarchy, switching is a breeze.

The damn American cities will not flip!!!
However, we have locked the border tight and they cannot expand into us with their "coca-cola" culture. :lol:

The golden age has ended, and research was slowed to keep the treasury filling and to let TGL do its work (thanks for Fuedalism America! :goodjob: ).
Education is being researched, and once discovered, will render TGL obsolete. My hopes are to get at least Engineering for free before that time. Invention and Chivalry would be really nice! :D

Our army is huge now, at least double what I began with. No one can bully us anymore. If Germany is to become part of our empire, we have the force to make it so.

That is for someone else to decide, as I opted against war during my reign and it paid off handsomely.
If Germany will trade us their luxuries for ours, I see no reason to attack. A road is almost finished to link our two empires. Hopefully a trade can be worked out, or else... well... :hammer:

If its going to be war, it should be now, while we are a monarchy.

Also: I forgot to build galleys and go look for the other 3 civs.
Somebody should do that.

Sirian is up, followed by donsig.

Meldor asked for the 4000 BC save, so here it is:

I'm disappointed in you, joe. I was expecting 'Germany' to be a new Babylonian province. :D Oh, well.....

War will come sooner or later, since Germany only borders (bothers?) us. :lol: I say we take them out now, rather than later.

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
I'm disappointed in you, joe.

:p Culture victory, you warmonger! :lol:

Just hang on, Im working on the German SGIII right now. Once its ready, you can romp all over our neighbors. :D

We were not ready for war when my turn started. Too weak against a militaristic enemy. Now we are ready, I think we outnumber them 2 to 1 and have swordsmen and horsemen to their archers and spearmen. Plus lots of extra bowmen for garrison duty.

Its up to Sirian. He can try to get a trade deal going, or conquer them for the gems and incense. Since we are a monarchy at present, this would be the time for it.

I would be happy with either course of action. We need luxuries badly at present, and cash flow. Our cities are still really small and dont generate much trade to cover so many improvements.
Room to build the Forbidden Palace would be nice too...

We shall give Sirian some time to check in, as he has several SGs going.

I'd say we have to absorb Germany even though we are trying for a culture victory. I'm playing a game as India and haven't even been able to amass 50,000 culture points yet (1700 AD). And I have about 30 cities
.

I think a quick campaign will swiftly despatch the Germans on their way to oblivion. Then we can develop all the way to the space age. Just have to fortified our American frontiers. Even if we have to fight then, only minimal action around the Praire city.

How about it, guys? ;)

I like that plan.:)

Charis Hammurabi (aka the HAMMER ) vividly remembers the 'great insult' of 530 BC. He can hardly believe there's even debate on the matter, and virtually assures his own cabinet that if Germany exists at the start of his next reign, it won't by the end.

:hammer:

Er... culture?? Oh ya. The Hammer politely points out that the "1000 year bonus" is disippating as we sit and use "words" at this point where action is needed! :P

Charis

I gave Sirian the tools, now he can use them or not.
I agree with Knight-Dragon, kill them!

I dont want to influence his decision though.
Donsig is right too! Kill, kill, kill!

He will have to make up his own mind.
Kill them now!!! Or Charis will get your glory!!!

I have nothing but confidence he will do the right thing.
Bismark is laughing at you...

I look forward to seeing how it turns out.
You damn well better win!

:D :D :D

:lol:

Originally posted by joespaniel
I gave Sirian the tools, now he can use them or not.
I agree with Knight-Dragon, kill them!

I dont want to influence his decision though.
Donsig is right too! Kill, kill, kill!

He will have to make up his own mind.
Kill them now!!! Or Charis will get your glory!!!

I have nothing but confidence he will do the right thing.
Bismark is laughing at you...

I look forward to seeing how it turns out.
You damn well better win!

:D :D :D Warmonger. :lol: :lol: :lol: :p You might as well hit Sirian on the head about it. :spank:

Now be careful what you ask for, as you just may get it! I signed on for a diplomatic and cultural rennaissance, and I fully intend to hammer :hammer: out the Mission Creep factor during my reign.

Inherited Turn 340AD: the new king, Sirian, orders a survey of the kingdom. Here are the results:

* Goodly number of workers. :goodjob: Poor Deerdale never got the irrigations it needed, though, so that will be a top priority.

* Wheat River got whipped into the next millenium. Somebody was pushing our people a little too hard there. (OK, WAY too hard). :spank:

* Not a single granary. Anywhere. How can we expect to become the flower of world admiration if we don't have it together enough to feed our own people??? :confused: This must be corrected.

* This is the army we have? I can go raze Berlin with this army, but we would have to continue to produce units throughout my entire reign, or until I gave the Germans peace, if we are actually going to conquer a whole nation, even one as weak as Germany.

* Our economy is totally in the drink. TOTALLY. Like... wow it sucks. (OK, some of that is being in Monarchy, but most of it derives from a lack of population. See point about granaries, indexed under subheading "We Have None". :lol: )

* Jungle Fish has too much jungle.

* We've had mapmaking for how long now? And nobody has explored those sea currents directly to our east? This too shall be remedied.

* Not a single irrigated grassland tile in the kingdom? File this weediness next to "Granaries, Nonexistant" under "Reasons why our economy is in the drink".


Now I understand that certain elements of our military are riled up about German insults, but truly now, those uncouth savages can't be expected to live up to Babylonian standards. Sure, we COULD march up there and "teach them a lesson" at the business end of our swords, but if we endeavor to live up to our own ideals and show some patience with this inferior, ignorant people, I'm sure we can teach them how to be polite neighbors, and spare themselves from total annihiliation while we busy ourselves with more important things, like temple art, the latest books, and securing our place as the civilization all others aspire to emulate.

One final point before I recount the Era of Diplomatic Enlightenment. I checked F11 and found a most disturbing set of facts on display. Ranked in the bottom half of the world in population? In production? In Commerce? Can you guess why? (Answer starts with "We Have No" and ends with "Granaries"). :lol:

Alright. Cut the sarcasm; just fix the problems! :p Just do it! :D

joespaniel, donsig and I are not the types into building granaries. In fact, I don't remember building one ever in any of my SGs. :D

The army not big enough for your taste? Too bad. :p Now stop whining and go cut up the Germans. :D Then we can all live happily ever after in Cultural Super-Wonderland Babylonia. :lol:

Well... I was going to write a detailed report, complete with several screenshots I had prepared, and some funny moments, but audience reaction to the first half has been to throw tomatoes and jeer. Heh. So instead I'll just post the highlights:

* Revolted back to Republic on first turn.

* Got the Germans to pay us for 20 turns of peace, then cut a deal, their incense for 7gpt and RoP.

* Rushed a Harbor (we had none of those either), also some buildings at Wheat River, which is the ideal location for the Forbidden Palace (and why I fussed about it being messed up).

* Almost every other city was switched to granary.

* I irrigated a couple of grassland at each of our larger cities with grass, where access to water was available.

* More irrigation allowed our growth rate to more than double, and granaries double it again. Our economy is now much stronger, both in terms of production and trade.

* Built six new cities, including securing most of the colony island. I got there first because I started us in that direction from the moment I took over my turn. First two cities were where I wanted, third was best I could do in a race with three other AI's. You can still see the two losers parked on the island.

* Cathedrals in our two best towns, infrastructure improvements all around, more workers, upgraded units, started the FP, and some new barracks, too.

* Our lone galley was lost at sea on my last turn, but caught a glimpse of a passing Persian galley. Contact with the other continent made, maps brokered.



Joespaniel: Did I misunderstand what you intended by "Babylon, with culture and diplomacy as the main strategy, less emphasis on conquest"? Less than what? If bending our whole civ to a middle age war is less conquest, you must have been playing some pretty aggressive games. :) You yourself don't even seem to me to be still interested in diplomacy and culture. What happened?

I had fun on this turn, turning the economy around and getting us growing faster, and pretty much securing Germany as a permanant vassal neighbor, if we like. That wasn't in line with your urgings for the turn, but fits with what you originally described for the game -- and IMHO set us better on the path to victory, military OR cultural/diplomatic, than the war would have.

You've got some dissention in the ranks now, though, as I'm as unhappy with Knight's remarks as he was with mine, and I know that's not what you wanted. I'm sorry for that. If you really want the war, discard my result and I'll step aside, and donsig can pick it up from your last save and go attack. No hard feelings from me.

You need to choose a mission priority, though. If cultural or diplomatic victory is the goal, then warmongering is not the way to get there. If domination/conquest is the goal, that should be stated. And if you want to have your war and your diplomacy, too, then space race is your only hope, as we'll be too reviled to win by diplomacy, too slowed to win by culture, and too hogtied by mixed objectives to dedicate to military victory.

If not for the theme of the game, I wouldn't have vetoed the war effort -- but I probably also wouldn't be playing this one. In an open game, I'd have gone ahead with the war, not ignored everything my predecessors had done, since a good bit was invested to prepare for it. But this wasn't an open game, it was a private themed game and you asked me to come play. Well, I'm here, playing in good faith, and here's the result of my turn.


- Sirian

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
joespaniel, donsig and I are not the types into building granaries. In fact, I don't remember building one ever in any of my SGs.

:lol:

Build a granary? I don't think I ever had either.
Of course, 90% of my games I get the Pyramids, the ultimate granary.

:lol:

I'm also confused now as to the direction here. I thought the two key factors were: i) culture-diplomacy outmaneuver, outbuild, out-think the AI's and dominate without *having to* flex muscle excessively (still being strong and able to when needed), ii) a gentlemanly game with an emphasis on having fun.

Well... the intensity of the warmongery was just kicked up to a new level. I contributed to it this turn with the thoughts of "the Hammer", but that's the persona he picked up when he saw the need for aggression sometime against Germany and yet no barracks, no mil units, few land improvements, and too few cities.
That tiny little AI 'demanded' tribute from us -- while this is enough to rile us, it should be a HUGE red flag that we're not even close to having the military to take him out -- at least not in a way that doesn't leave us tremendously behind. For all his spouting of war, 'the Hammer' was a builder :P

Dragon, those comments may have been totally appropriate to joespaniel or donsig or someone who knows you well but... if you read that as someone who doesn't know you, you'll see how rude that was. joespaniels 'subliminal' post was hilarious, I was rotfl on that one, but telling someone to can it and 'do what we said cuz we don't do things that way in these parts' is way over the line. OTOH, I'm so used to posts just like Sirian made they don't phase me and I usually end up saying "hmmm, that's spot on." (like this time) Perhaps they come across as something other than instructional to folks not used to seeing reports like that.

I can go either way, mongering or cultural, so I hope that's clarified. But in either case it's going to be 10x harder without infrastructure, and well... granaries are a key part of that, as are temples, harbors and irrigation. (No granaries?? Ever?? Oops, I'm not in Kansas anymore! :cool: )

Charis

Sorry, Sirian, and Charis. I was just joking! (Look at all the similies). Feel free to do whatever you want, pls. :o Guess I was really overboard. :o

Seriously, Sirian, I have no problems with you at all. The fault is all on me. You're doing a great job. :goodjob: I have no objections at how the game is being driven along.

Sorry again. Fr now on, will keep my mouth SHUT in this SG. ;) :o Sorry.

OK then, hatchets buried, all is well. :)

Still need Joespaniel's input on his vision for the game, though. Are we really doing diplomacy? Because if we are, there's no reason to roll over Germany, we can bully them well enough just using the pen, we can flip up to three of their cities with cultural pressure, and we are currently semi-dependant upon our RoP-for-cheaper-luxuries deal.


Here was one of the funniest moments I have ever seen in a Civ3 game. When I realized what happened, the gall of the AI...! I laughed for minutes on end. With the Right of Passage in place, Germany marched a worker right up to our capital, then IRRIGATED OVER AN EXISTING MINE to start the chain of bringing water to that city on the far right. If left alone, he will literally irrigate his way across our lands over the next few centuries!

This was good for us! I was lamenting the fact that I had no way to irrigate Silkton. We can let him do the work for us! We need to mine the hills over there and get some irrigated grasslands so the city grows much more quickly. Then when it gets to size 11 or 12 we can come back and mine over some of the irrigations to improve shields again, when the extra food is no longer useful.

But... just the GALL of the AI! The audacity, the bravery! And the trust, that we wouldn't take offense at them destroying OUR mines so they could lead water to a city hundreds of miles away!

That's One Bold Worker!!! :lol:

Our colonies, complete with The Losers (Iro, German) in the land grab race now just parked and twiddling their thumbs. Hey, I know that's not the prettiest "victory lap" but we won the race! Best I could do under the circumstances. :)

Here's the homeland. Missionary Point was founded to pressure those German cities, try to get them to flip to us. Unfortunately, right after I founded it and rushed the temple, Munich's border expanded! :eek: This means we'll also have to rush the library ASAP on donsig's turn, or else concede that Munich is going to be the stronger city over there, culturally.

The best irony is... by the time that Bold Worker gets irrigation over to Hannover, the city is sure to have come over to our control because they're so much in awe of our civilization. :)

- Sirian

I'm at work now. Will try to play when I get home.:)

(It'll be be tough though. I've had a rough day and I'd rather fight it out with the Germans than build a granery.)

Hey, BTW, what is a granery?:confused:

I'M JUST KIDDING!:lol:

Guys, I had a brutal 12 hour day at work, and Im dog tired.
I'll post more tomorow, I cant even think straight right now.

I will say this for now:

Forget war. Lets flip the German cities.
All those extra units can be disbanded for shields in cities trying to build improvements.

donsig-
The city by Hannover and Munich is CRUCIAL!
Library and temple ASAP!!!

Sirian is right, I wandered from the path a little. Old habits die hard. :D
However, in my defense, I did build over a dozen city improvements, extra wonders and most of those workers during my turn.

I'll be back after work tomorow. See ya then.
Goodnight.

Ibbi-Sin, a distant descendant of Hammurabi the Lawgiver, was chosen as Prime Minister in 560 AD. That same year a grain storage facility was completed in Shun-Kharand. Ibbi-Sin, a very religious man, was dismayed by the current internal improvement program in the republic. He argued before Parliament that courthouses were not needed since Hammurabi's Code had served Babylon well for centuries. Libraries were not needed, either. Was not the purpose of the Great Library to store all the knowledge known to man? With these arguments Ibbi-Sin inaguarated a great program of temple and cathedral building in the republic. This highly successful program would be continued for almost a hundred years:

570: Temple built in Pristine Beach
580: Temple built in Friendly Forest
590: Temple built in Glacier Valley
600: Cathedral built in Fishpond
610: Cathedral built in Shun-Taresh
620: Cathedral built in Peaceful Prairie
630: Temple built in Pheasant Flats
640: Cathedral built in Deerdale

There was occassional civil unrest during this time but it was quickly resolved each time it arose. Babylon first learned about gunpowder in 620 AD and new theories of education were brought to the republic ten years later. This caused a major shift in the focus of the republic's energies. The year 650 AD marked the first time in almost 100 years that a non-religious internal improvement passed Parliament: a colosseum was raised in Silkton that year.

Sennacherib (the Learned) came to lead Parliament soon after this and convinced his colleagues in the legislative body that the time had come for Babylon to make new discoveries on it's own rather than merely gather the knowledge of other countries. He personally authored legislation that led to libraries being built in both Shun Kharand (660) and Shun-Taresh (670). His last act before retiring was to oversee the opening of The Univeristy of Fishpond. The new university caused a crisis almost immediately. A certain obscure history professor popularized a theory that the ancient emperors had erred greatly by allowing Germany to grow as it has. Others at the university picked up on the theory and pointed to the saltpeter deposits owned by the German desert city of Frankfurt. This was all the more troublesome as Babylon does not have saltpeter of it's own...

In an executive session of Parliament, Kara-indash pointed out that the Germans were not using the desert saltpeter - since there were no roads in the area. Perhaps the Germans did not yet know how to manufacture gunpowder. Kara-indash urged that the deposits be seized and Berlin captured. While Parliament debated in secret the French declared war on America. With the American's distracted Kara-indash's ideas slowly took hold and Babylon's offensive forces were moved north. Two contingents of troops camped outside Frankfurt in 720 AD. To Parliament's dismay it was learned that the desert city was indeed defended by musketmen! Yet there was still no road to the desert saltpeter deposits. Could the Germans have another source of the important mineral? Perplexed, the troops sat outside Frankfurt. As the army remained in Germany for an extended period there was rioting in Wheat River. This brought about a mini-religious revival and a cathedral was built in Solstice Tree. Another was constructed in Silkton in 740 AD. In 750 AD the army remained sitting in Germany and Babylonian scientists studied astromony as they looked towards the heavens for answers...

I was happily building cultural improvements until I realized the Germans had saltpeter and we didn't.:( I mobilzed our forces with the intention of seizing Frankfurt and Berlin and then offering Bismark peace. Would have even given him Berlin back in order to keep the saltpeter. But then the army reached Frankfurt and halted. The treasury is built up to over 200 gold and I didn't want to spend the cash to see how Frankfurt was defended. Figured it would be nice to have knights right about now...

Anyway, we still have an RoP with Bismark - I didn't realize that and was surprised when he didn't mind me parking next to his cities.

We are still working on the FP, Leo's place and the Sistine Chapel. If we switch from Leo we can have Copernicus in two turns.:)

Well, I think Knight-Dragon is up now. Is it play time on the other side of the world?

Not yet, for another couple of hours. :(

Well, what do we do now?

My thoughts:

* Do not disband any military! Diplomacy is the art of negotiation through strength. Defeat is what happens when you can't back up your words. If the other civs refuse to be reasonable, sometimes war is the last resort.

* We don't need saltpeter that badly. Might even be better NOT to have it right away, and build up a lot of veteran pikes. If we build Leonardo's, upgrade costs would be reduced, and our strong economy could pay for troop upgrades to give us the kind of force nobody would mess with.

* We can trade for saltpeter later. We would only need a one-time deal to upgrade all our units, and that can wait either for a war to come along (AI aggression -- and god help anybody who Chooses Unwisely to attack us) or for Military Tradition, so that we upgrade all our horses at the same time as the foot soldiers.

* Diplomats keep their word. If you are bent on attacking, pull our troops back, declare war the honorable way, then move. Really, though, there's no urgent need to attack nor any great benefit to doing so, over a unit of saltpeter.

* Find out where other sources of saltpeter may lie, and if any can be obtained with an aggressive settler and superior cultural strength, rather than an invasion.

* Unless the AI's attack us, we're probably safe just sitting around with pikes and knights, and waiting for riflemen. Building more knights might be wise, though.


- Sirian

Yep, it isn't that bad. I once played an SP game w/o iron until the railroad age. :eek: So I spent all my time building all the Wonders. Well, I can play a peaceable game when I have to too. :p :lol:

My turn now; we'll sit tight and see how it goes. And continue to refine our culture.

Highlights : -

770 - Began Copernicus in Fishpond.

850 - Completed Sistine Chapel. The rest switched to Bach's and Copernicus.

860 - Switched Babylon to Bach's. Giving up Leornardo's. English completed AoW. Very unnatural. :lol:

870 - France completed Leornardo's. America completed Copernicus. :mad: Exchanged banking, chem, 75 gold with Egypt for our chivalry. Also econs for silk 20 turns. Remember to remove this deal after 20 turns. ;)

880 - French completed Bach's! :mad: Missed by 1 turn. :mad: Wasted 69 shields in Fishpond.

890 - Adam Smith's built in Babylon.

Notes - Our bowmen are obsolete. Replace with pikes as soon as possible. Also need more mkts and banks, to bring science up.

Those bloody Germans.... :lol:

Told them to piss off of course. Their response....

Our empire, unchanged.

France declared war???!!!

:lol:

They'll be arriving at some point at scenic Peaceful Prairie, our Western border. If you're low on culture there, get something built QUICK and try to expand the border one west. Then we can close the border to our country with just two fortified stacks (it also cuts off Baltimore completely). Not sure if that's possible to expand atm, but worth considering.

To be ready for France, might want some extra troops over at prairie. Half hoping France brings Germany into the war as an ally, then we'll get America as ally.

Germany asked us for tribute again???!

:lol:

He must be smoking the weed that Cathy often smokes. Or is he hiding a military twice the size of ours in his cities? Usually the AI is arrogant, but not stupid. (Well, ok, it's often stupid, but doesn't usually ask tribute from positions of weakness)

Good job on Sistine, that'll be a huge help long term! :hammer:

(BTW, on Babylon, a size 12 city building a wonder should have irrig tiles switched to mines until it's zero growth, if the race is at all close)

Charis

The window of opportunity has closed. We can no longer even dream of conquering Germany with military force, as their cities are defended with musketmen.

If the Germans amass enough knights, they will attack us. Im 99% sure of it.

We had better be prepared for war.

Somehow they built cultural improvements in Munich and Hannover quick enough to blunt our border there. Perhaps a university and cathedral would be in order for Missionary Point?
Maybe it can still flip them.

Charis is up, good luck!

Lets figure out which foriegn cities we have a chance at a flip.

Munich and Hannover seem prime.

The Americans have been quiet, but I would still like to pressure their two towns near Solstice.

Any more?

Baltimore is almost sure to come over to us eventually, also Hannover. Munich might, but it's rather close to their capital, so it may not. Cologne also has a chance, it's under a lot of pressure. The American city west of Soltice is under some pressure, but won't likely flip until after Baltimore, if at all. Toulouse is a good bet for a flip, also, it's under big pressure and WAY closer to our capital than to Paris.

Although... it has been forty turns and none of them flipped yet. Takes some luck and patience. I'm sure we'll get some, but likely won't get them all.

Bismarck is yapping like a Chihuahua. He's in no position to attack us, as that would be a Most Unwise Choice on his part. :lol: We should have units ready to respond, though: some knights and perhaps even a few catapults to help soften them up and reduce our casualties if war does break out.


- Sirian

France declared war???!!!

France declared war on America a while back. They haven't declared war on us have they?

What does Charis need after a few days without the weed???

:spank:

Yes, a good smack upside the head. How on earth did I miss the "on America" phrase??! :pimp:

"Never mind!"
Charis

Charis, are you playing?;)

> Charis, are you playing?

Blank stare... I've had reminder notices before, but seldom with 9 hrs of posting in a thread I'm clearly reading :lol:

I shall do so shortly this eve, but during the day... I work :P

Thanks,
Charis

We can forget about attacking Germany now. In fact, if they attack us now, we'll be hardpressed to contain them, at their several entry points.

We only have 2 knights (upgraded fr horsemen), a couple of swordsmen and bowmen doubling as additional garrison troops. Barely any pikes except at the borders.

If they land troops outside Babylon or any of the inner cities.....

I was tempted to give them that gold at that time.

Note - I don't think the Germans have horsies. Never seen any kind of German horse unit. ;)

Note - I don't think the Germans have horsies. Never seen any kind of German horse unit.

I guess this resource shortage thing can work for us as well as against us.:)

We can forget about attacking Germany now. In fact, if they attack us now, we'll be hardpressed to contain them, at their several entry points.

I think, Knight-Dragon, you will be *very* happy to find out that this statement is wholly inaccurate. You'll love the read this turn...
---

The weed police were tired of continually investigating the line of Charis
and just for kicks they looked into the theft of Bach. Their finding gives
the award of one "weed medal" :smoke: (anonymously, for they seek not to blame
but to root out and eliminate weed sources!). On the 750AD save turn,
there was found to be an... entertainer cutting up jokes in the pub whiles his
friends. Medal number three for working a no-shield water square instead of a

plains square. Each of those accounts for 1 lost turn. With an extra worker or two

in place and some irrig mined, another turn. The investigation shows that with

these improvements the Babylonians finish their *choice* of Leo
or Bach's in 860 AD, two turns early, beating France to both. The weed inspector
got a little too close to the weed though, when it looked like a worker was
chopping down a forest (which not only has wasted shields for a wonder or palace
but reduces from 2-shields to 1), but he was only making a road :P The inspector
is fired and Charis is told to get on with his turn...

Charis 'the Hammer' Hammurabi tells this mathhead to quit his yapping and help
him figure out a way to kill those Germans!!! :hammer:

890 AD (0) - The army general is wondering why Navigation and not democracy with
nowhere left to colonize and no one left to meet, but no one listens. When
he points out it's an optional tech we have really no use for at all,
a few more do wonder as well... Actually kicking back slider a minute shows
we're 38 turns away at min science, so not into it at all. A rare tech veto
occurs, and we'll take Metallury in 4 instead of Nav in 8. Cannons are one
answer to Muskets and Cavalry (which requires Metallurgy then Mil Trad) is
the final answer :hammer: The hammer literally begs Bizzy to wait 8 turns
until we get Mil Tradition then ask again for tribute! Peaceful Prairie and
Jungle Fish are put on Courthouses due to big but recoverable waste problems.
Same thing in Shun-Kharand (instead of aqueduct when food surplus is zero).

Diplomacy. France and England lack the cultural benefit of a RoP with
our glorious nation. France is delighted to pay 65 gold for this benefit.
England can't even consider one?? Ah, no embassy. Same with Persian, the other
ones who "look annoyed." Aha! No longer annoyed, but polite. The new happy
Liz will give us map gold and Metallurgy for our extra silks. Downright
gracious, she is! Xman has nothing to offer us. Hmm, Americans are on our
border and in a war with France. France lacks horses. Joanie would consider
it a 'personal favor' if I could make way to send her some studs :D
And she'll even pay for it! All her gold (60) and 17 gpt. Now we study
Military Tradition. Just 8 turns away. (Bring it on Bizzy!) Better make
some extra knights to prep for upgrade. Zero catapults to upgrade to
cannons?? :P Ok... It now makes sense why seeing muskets in Germany
leads some to think war would be hopeless.

900 AD (1) - Cleopatra offers a hardy belly laugh. Why do folks think that
the Hammer is a patsy?! A "deal" wherein we pay territory map and 23 gold
and she not crush us?? :lol: rotflmao She does not follow through on her
threats when I politely totally ignore her. Soooooo much stuff we need,
aqueducts, courthouses, workers, horses, pikes, it boggles the mind, and Cleo
thinks I have time to deal with this??!

910 AD (2) - Adjust cattle crossing, using a hill to get us an even 20 shields.
HA!! Finally, someone around here who understands the TRUE nature of the
situation with the Hammer in charge of Babylon. Cologne, utterly impressed
by our culture (and scared for their life) yearn to join us!!!!

A defection!! [dance]

Kudos to founders of Shun-Kharand and Jungle Fish! :hammer:
Frankfort is getting even more nervous!

920 AD (3) - Germany cuts off our supply of incense and RoP. Bizzy?? Were
you looking to jack up the price some, because, well, I've been meaning to
talk to you about this, and I was wanting to cancel your RoP anyway. Having
your uncultured slobs trapsing through our land does nothing for us. We
need no ongoing committments with you, thank you very much. (And yet...
his people are in awe of our culture). He's Furious??? What on earth did
we do??? YOU cancel out of the deal and I politely say "I understand." ???
(Our mil advisor whispers... their army is about same size as ours)

Baton down the hatches folks. War is coming, and we won't have to start it.
But by cracky... we're sure going to END it when it comes!! :hammer:
Wow, and no impact from the loss of German pungent weed?! Our people are
strong and happy!

Wheat River finishes the Forbidden Palace! [party]
And it starts a... barracks! :hammer:
Across the land we review effects of corruption, and whether to be building
improvements or military... Almost nothing to change, except Bablyon from
Univ to Knight. If it DOES come to war, Frankfort is our first target,
to secure the Saltpeter. With Frankfort, Munich and Hanover captured,
we could even finish the job later.

930 AD (4) - Pheasant Flats expands it border, but the saltpeter stays under
German control.

950 AD (6) - Tensions still high, but no outbreak... What is Germany, with
tech parity, researching? If Mil Tradition and they get before the
saltpeter war is over, it will cause pain that need not occur.

960 AD (7) - Military Tradition has arrived! We start Printing Press with
an eye towards Democracy (cough, after the war).

Americans land on our Island to battle for Toulousse of France.
Diplo? Hmmm, suddenly EVERYONE has Physics. It jumped from 7 turns to the
min 4 here. We purchase from France for 5 gpt. We're the only one with
Military Tradition, and lest it make it around to our enemy, I keep it
that way for now.

Bizzy?? It's time to talk. We're TRYING, *SO* hard, to live at peace with
you and share our culture... "Share it like you did at Cologne?!" "Can we
help it if the people of cologne choose wisely?! Anyway, you've now got
troops in our territory, I must insist, with an amount of respect commeasurate
with your worthiness for that respect, that you withdraw them at once!
If not it will be treated as a...

GERMANY DECLARES WAR ON THE PEACEFUL BABYLONIANS!!

(to be continued...)

*drooling*

The Hammer says... "You have chosen unwisely!!!!!" :hammer: :hammer:
We cut back science to one beaker and save up for upgrades.

960 AD part 2 (ok, the turn is not over afterall) - Our swordsmen take
the first swings, at a fortified warrior outside of Frankfort and...
we lose. Hmmm... ok, that will help with our maintenance cost, says the
Hammer. Next up our glorious Knight, a veteran leads the assault on
Frankfort, and... loses. Incompetence! The Hammer, too weary from talk
and diplomacy and sitting in his castle, leaps on his fastest personal
horse and storms across Pheasant Flats. Word reaches the troops that the
Hammer will lead the army into battle!!! The hearts of those in Frankfort
absolutely melt at hearing this. "Grab that worker!!" "Sir?? He's a civili..."
"Get him!!! Treat him well and share our culture with him!"

A second knight, this time under the leadership of the Hammer, attacks
Frankfort. (Even 'regulars' are far from regular under the keen guidance
of the Hammer!) The wimpering Musketman didn't stand a chance and was
trampled. A vet knight came right behind and defeated the injured musket.
That was it!!!! Two defenders despite a pack of knights two squares away!
It is good that their declaration of war came on OUR turn :P

Saltpeter? I got ya Saltpeter. And the RAX at Frankfort stands :P
Did I mention Bizzy has no horses?

Our pike on a hill defeats that initial arrogant warrior. Next the
battle shifts to Berlin where a Sword acculturizes a worker. On to
Munich where outside, a sword kills an archer.
At Hannover, two more workers are captured by Swordsmen (now offiical
called the CP, Culture Police!) A warrior and archer in the fields there
are hunted down by two knights. We'll snag Hannover first, then cut
inland towards Munich.

Hmmmmm... Glacier Valley has been empty, no garrison for how long??
Could this be why everything thinks they can threaten us? Let's send
a Pikeman there asap!

970 AD (8) - Here comes the German response, *streaming* out toward the
front lines. One warrior. One spear. One sword. That's it?????

:rotfl:

Egyptians are building Magellan's. (Almost everyone has navigation now)
The Frankfort resistance ends already, so impressed are they with our
fine culture and the fair treatment they receive by our cultural police!

What on earth is a German spear doing on Pristine Island?

20 Gold to upgrade Knight to Cav? What a bargain! Pikeman to Musket
is 60. We'll take all the former we can and if money left, Muskets.
For this turn we're short 1 gold and sell our world map to France for 1.

Hannover only has a spear under that one musket? Smoke and mirrors!!
They scared us off with smoke and mirrors?! lol

980 AD (9) - More Germans come streaming out! Two units. Alas, one is a...
Knight. **WHO** sold them horses?????? They shall pay! vows the Hammer!

Outside Munich, our advant garde cultural police unit is attacked by a
mere swordsman and becomes elite! A galley is seen escaping Munich.

Fishpond is so underwhelmed with the Germans, with his pike finished he
switches back to infrastructure, starting our second of five banks.
Next turn, we'll turn the science back on too.

WOO!!!!!! Baltimore sees how this war is going for the mighty
Babylonians and overthrows their heinous oppressors!!!

:hammer: (San Fran is next, thinks the Hammer)

We see cannon upgrade is 40, reasonable.

Oh... that Knight. He stopped within 3 move pts of our Cav upgraded
last turn with Frankfort salt. Muhahaha, it dies with celerity.

Two Cultural Police take Hannover! A knight attacked first vs the spear,
but withdrew. Then two spears were acculturized! For some very odd reason,
when first they come over to Babylonian control, virtually all the Germans
do not like the food! Virtual starvation occurs for a while until they get
hungry enough and start to enjoy the food.

990 AD (10) - The streaming Germans this turn? Two longbows come out and
both are needed to take out ONE bowmen. That galley... it just dropped
off one longbow outside Hannover. (Where the resistance has ended)

The cultural police escort the spear on Pristine Island into custody :P

At Hanover we lose one CP on the longbow, but a bowman evens the score.
Munich is less fortunate, with two cavs running them right over.

Diplo- France and America are flat broke. All have navigation, but no
other new techs. Darn, darn! All have mil tradition, and they did NOT
last turn. I was going to sell them it, but thought, what's one more
turn, I'll let next leader do that at end of this turn. Bah.
Well that's why everyone is now broke except Persia. America has no
salt and France does. I think the tide of their war is about to turn!!
(England doesn't have it but offers us an insulting trade)

We've captured the three cities and have their capital, Berlin,
surrounded. Let's talk peace. They refuse to hear our envoys??!!
Ok, fine, MAKE us take your capital, sheeeeeesh! :pimp:

We attack, lose one cav, see one retreat, and finally defeat a musket.
The musket showing is hurt, and our 'elite CP' is on hand! He goes at it,
and wins! Underneath however is a Pike. May not be the last one, but...

Next turn Berlin shall fall!!! The Hammer has spoken! :hammer:

Once Germany is gone (and if it doesn't answer our next envoy it WILL be)
we actually ARE in shape with our mainland and colony island to lay back
and culturize as much as we see fit. Hmm, well that colony island isn't
all ours. Hmmmm... (?!) I wonder what Joanie would think? Joanie, would you
mind if we oversee the goverment there in Toulousse, I mean... afterall,
there's been talk, and the citizens there are really impressed by our
culture. Oh???? You don't mind??? You think it's a good idea? Really?
Oh gosh, well, I admire you too! 20 turns of peace now? You have my word!!!
(She offers Navigation for 37 gold and 6gpt if our next leader is
interested.) Joan please, take our territory map and these meager coins
as a freewill gift! :love2:

You'll notice here that despite being on Berlin's doorstep I keep to the
turns, not even bothering to even out the years, to give joespaniel his
chance at glory :D

Note-
i. We have one bank and there are now queued up 4. The 50 gpt from Wall Street
would come in massively handy, and we can start that when fifth bank
finishes in 20 turns.
ii. Prisine island is in bad need of more mil units - 3 old fashioned units
to protect 4 cities. May want to rush a gally or a unit there soon.

Good luck!
Charis

Great job!:goodjob:

Nice work Charis! :D

I especially liked the part where you stopped! ;) :lol:

OK, I get to take Berlin, but you won the war for us. Good job. :goodjob:

At Hannover, two more workers are captured by Swordsmen (now offiically called the CP, Culture Police!)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll have time to play tomorow, after my root canal. :eek:
And no, Im not kidding, Im really having one in the morning.

I'll probably take out Konigsberg too, because thats where the capitol will most likely go after Berlin is "culturally assimilated" at gunpoint. ;)

All that, and THEY declared the war against US. Now that's how to run a diplomatic game. :)

Oh and by the way... the Forbidden Palace is in Wheat River. Now why would I start building it there if I thought Germany could last the whole game without Choosing Unwisely? :lol:

Charis :goodjob:

Joespaniel, make an example of these fools. War to your heart's content! Conquer them, even, if that pleases you. For we are a most diplomatic and enlightened culture, but god help those who think they can push us around when we make a reasonable request of them, such as "get off our land". :D

:hammer: :shotgun:

- Sirian

:lol: There's not much war left to do. ;)
Charis pretty much took care of it, and thats fine with me.

The really hard part will begin after my turn:
Getting 200,000 cultural points!

Great Wonders are really going to make the difference, we better build most, if not all of them.

And lots of grainaries. :D

Hey, I thought a cultural win was 100,000 points? BTW if a city gets 20,000 cultural points, is that a win?

Signed,
A Confused Warmonger:confused: :rocket:

Back from the dentist, and its a good thing I am typing and not talking. Damn novacaine. ;)

I am not sure if its 100,000 points or more, nor about the one-city thing either. Sorry, I guess I should have found out before starting a culture game, eh? :lol:

Does anyone know for sure?

A cultural win is declared, when it is enabled, when either...

a) you have >= 100,000 culture points for your civ, *AND* more than double the next nearest civ

or

b) >= 20,000 culture points in one city

For the latter, you need to start *EARLY* with wonders and get the temple, cathedral etc done asap. Might be rough here, but not impossible. Don't "Spread around" culture generating wonders if you go for this route, get them in your capital
In rbd5 we had a medium-good cultural start and were keeping all win options open. In the late 1800's it started to look like conquest might not make it and it now looks like a one-city culture win is due around 1970.

For the former, if right now we don't have a big cultural advantage over the other civs, don't expect one to magically appear :P If just ONE other civ is close, then for a cultural win you'll likely need to eliminate that one.

We're now entering the second millenium in our game here, and because of the 1000 year bonus, you *really* wanted your basic culture buildings finished by 750 AD. It's 990 AD and we either just started or just finished our university in Babylon 8-\
Add that to missing Bach, and we really have our work cut out for us. Hmmm.... our slow expansion, being kind to the Germans, likewise means that NONE of our 'extra' cities will have their temple/library/anything before 750 (or 1000), making the whole-civ culture win rather tough too.

Given how far we bent over backwards to be kind to Germany, and giving them our full wrath when they declared war, I would think a diplo win might be most appropriate. I mean, sheesh, France just *GAVE* me Toulousse when I asked her for it. By supplying them, and later others, with resources, tech, and gifts in their greatest time of need will help them love us.

Once Germany is gone, we have the whole subcontinent to ourselves, and a nice expansion island all to ourselves. We need not war again after the last German city is taken over. We may yet get some cultural flips from American cities, but that's about it. The rest is a building, trading, making others like you game.
That is... if the warmongers don't have other thoughts :P
(I'm curious -- have you guys pulled out a diplo win in your other SG games?) We'll still need military might and to stay up/ahead in tech, for weak civs are not liked, they are pushed around and attacked. Better to be in the position where heaven help the next civ that threatens us for tribute! :hammer:

Charis

(I'm curious -- have you guys pulled out a diplo win in your other SG games?)

No, because we intentionaly played militaristic civs, like Germany.
I started this game for two reasons:
1- I wanted at least one game without constant warfare, and
2 - I wanted to explore other options and strategies within the game.

However, I am not unaware of the things you and Sirian keep pointing out. I just roll with the punches, so to speak, and let everyone do their thing.

I try to make suggestions, but ultimately it falls to the player at hand to decide the course of events.

My playing style is very aggressive, but not irrational. I have a method to my madness, so to speak. I dont see this game as all that different from a military conquest either, we just use libraries and cathedrals instaed of tanks and guns. The cities just keep falling! :D

I really like the way this game is going so far, and am glad I started it. I appreciate everyones input, Im learning more every turn it seems.

I envision at this rate, a diplomatic victory is quite likely, as long as we continue to keep our word and not threaten anyone (too much).
Culture ofcourse, is the hoped for outcome. We still may be able to do it. We'll see.

Well, we did launch a space ship one time.:D

We can do this culture thing. Just concentrate on getting the 100,000 points. If any country has more than 50,000 points we know what to do.;)

Well if you want 100,000 culture, you need a hugh city base.

LK13 with 100+ chinesse cities was approaching that in the 1900s!

Just concentrate on getting the 100,000 points. If any country has more than 50,000 points we know what to do.

This is just classic!!! :lol:

Now I just HAVE to look up the game, one sec... (my fear is all civs are all right about same culture as us)

Hmmm, not bad!!! We're almost double culture of next civs,
with America, France and England being the ones with decent culture (Persia too, and they're also 'strong'). The rest are well behind. America I would predict to see a late game unexpected death. And no doubt we'll play it so they declare war on us! :P If you want to cripple another AI's culture I would have to say razing their capitol around this time frame would do it! Of course, you can kiss and diplo chance good bye with THAT particular strat!

With our current civ area, we have 11,236 culture and gaining
about an even 200 per turn. Many of those points will double when they reach 1000 year old. If I grab RBD5's save file from 1000 AD (they hit 100K culture around 1950AD), they had only
7930 culture, and were gaining 140 turn. So yes, their big gains came from the next 500 years amassing a lot of little cities. With focused wonder effort you don't need quite as many cities, but in either case, the earlier you own them and start temples etc, the better.

Charis

The war is over, and we control the continent. Peace reigns.

I prosecuted the war without building a single new unit. All cities were switched to improvements in my pre-turn.

In other foreign affairs, traded France incense for navigation, and incense to Iroquois for Magnetism. Apparently we have quite the monopoly on luxuries now. :D

Traded silk and gems to America for wine (after they asked for a RoP and alliance against France, I said :p), to ensure peace for a little while. Our border is weak and needs beefing up.
WLTK day celebrated everywhere!

Upon discovering Gravity, we were catapulted into a new age and Nationalism took hold in Babylon. Traded France this knowledge for Steam Power.
Joan loves us.:love:

Reinforcements arrived on our island colonies, just in case someone tries to take our Pristine Beaches.

Sold gems to Persia for 60 gold, map and 18 gpt.

Old deals with England and Egypt are about up and should be re-negotiated by Sirian.

Re-neged with Joan for horses at 100 gold plus 7 gpt.

Built so many improvements, I cant remember them all. :lol:

Most importantly, Newton's is underway in Cattle Crossing and should be done in 12 turns or so. I think we will beat everyone to it, as I got a small headstart. Lets hope so.

Started on Medicine, as we can probably get Democracy from Joan soon. ;)

Now we need some riflemen to beef up and stay competitive with the Joneses.

Let our culture reign (down on America's head)!

I rushed the temple in Liepzig as I suspect England will try to grab a piece of that corner with the gems.
Watch it.

A *most* fitting end to a glorious campaign!! :hammer:

(Biz, you chose unwisely)

Very good job, and I thought you might be able to mop up
with no new units. They were already spent, pitiful as that
is. As for those gems, plop down a new city in the forest just
NW of the stationed unit, next to gem and ocean. That'll
fill in the gap nicely. If it takes too long to get a settler there,
block all the open spots with units right away to keep her off. It would ruin our diplomatic intentions to have to beat her to a bloody pulp and throw her body into the harbor :P

Charis

In 5 turns the border will expand, but another city to generate culture points cant hurt. Sounds good to me.

To all players - I think theres a chance at 100,000 culture points, but we need more cathedrals and universities, and ofcourse, wonders.

This should become a building game now, with a strong military to keep the vultures away.

There may be some boring turns ahead, thus we can only hope America will grow tired of our superior culture and attack us. :lol:

Its all yours Sirian. Why dont you see what kind of trouble you can stir up. ;) :lol:

Got it. Should be done by Sunday afternoon.

All I can say is - :beer: [dance] [party]

Great job, Charis! :goodjob: I'm beginning to figure out how to play a diplo game. :lol:

Looks like we've won. :D We're now strategically secured.

I'm used to ten turns per go. These twenty turn deals seem to last half an era. :) Not a rail on the ground when I took over, now it's quite different.

IT 1120AD: What? Cities without granaries??? :lol: Well of course that has to be redirected. I think you guys left it that way to give me something to do. :p

Scattered workers does well in the early game, but at this point stacks work much better, preferably stacks of four, so you can lay a rail in one turn (under democracy... what? Nobody has discovered democracy yet?? Hmm, well we're deep into Medicine, hopefully someone will learn it soon).

I bump up the science rate to bring medicine in a turn sooner.

Finally, I see our military is paper thin. We conquered Germany with two cannon and four units of cavalry? Wow they must been pathetic. :) I skim a round of conscripts of our size 12 maxed out cities, then off five other cities, too, and I wake some vet pikes and pay to upgrade them to rifles. BAM, instant army, we go from one rifle to ten, and I haven't hit Next Turn yet.

1130AD: Preparations for doubling our workforce. We need workers to build rails! We need granaries to build more workers so that our population and economy aren't sent into the drink!

1140AD: The world has discovered Democracy! I bought from X-man for about 200 gold. We revolt.

1150AD: We're in democracy! Our workers are faster, and more are being prepared. Our first pathetic rail lines go operational.

1160AD: We discover Medicine, start Industrialization. All our big cities who are done skimming workers are switched to factory placeholder.

1170AD-1210AD: Rails.

1220AD: Nobody has discovered Medicine or anything else yet, and we're now just two turns from Industrialization. I check the diplo screen, and even the poor nations have a wee bit of cash burning a hole in their pockets. I broker Medicine and some of our luxuries, we net about 600 cash, Furs from Liz, and about 175 gpt. We're RICH!!! We're positively wealthy. We're gushing cash. We're in the black, baby, yeah. :)

1240AD: Industrialization! Unfortunately, somebody else also discovered it this turn and has already traded it around, everyone's got it. What's worse, Magellan's has STILL not been built, so there is going to be a cascade to Suffrage, and the AI's will probably get ALL the remaining wonders, and perhaps also threaten Theory of Evolution too. :(

1250-55AD: Factories, rails. We now have over well over 30 workers and the slow creep of railbuilding at the start of my turn has transmuted into rapid, visible progress. The best part is that, with granaries, the extra food from irrigating some of these irrigated grassland and plains tiles is more than making up for the population lost. I cranked FIVE workers out of Silkton alone, and dropped it all the way down to size 4, but I bet you won't be able to tell that by the end of my turn. :)

1260AD: Egypt completes Magellan, everyone cascades to Suffrage. *sigh* No one has discovered Free Artistry yet either, oddly enough.

1265AD: Abe moves a longbow onto our land. Two of his cavalry move purposefully into sight of our border. I dial him up and say, "Abe, old boy, you do NOT want to do this. OK? You understand me? This would be the mother of all Unwise Choices." He stares at me blankly and says, "Oh is that YOUR land? Sorry."

Yeah. Right. I check our military. I haven't been building any, we've been building factories and workers instead. I pull over half of the obsolete units from every corner of our empire and upgrade them at Peaceful Prairie. We end up with a stack of about ten rifles there, most are not veteran though. There goes our treasury, and how. At least we had the dough to pay for it. I also move our cavalry out of the far northeast, and mass them down at Solstice Tree.

I dial up Joanie, Hiawatha, and Cleo, and get them to PAY US for a Mutual Protection Pact. Abe would have to be a complete idiot to attack us now.

1270AD: Abe is a complete idiot. :lol:

One of his cavs charges right up and attacks us at Solstice Tree. Our veteran riflemen were ready and repel the attack with no losses on our side. France, Iroquois, Persia and Egypt declare war against America. Abe then moves nine more cavs onto our land, surrounding us at Peaceful Prairie.

And then it was our turn. :groucho:

I used our two catapults to soften up two of the forwardmost American units, and then...

The evil Americans AGAIN! The suspense is killing me.:slay:

This is a bit different though - our border with America is very short.

We had two vet cav, two elite. One of our vets promotes upon killing the wounded enemy at Solstice Tree, and we now have two unhurt cavs for use again next turn.

There are still six American cav on our land. I pull vet swordsmen from garrisons and train them into Peaceful Prairie, from which they attack more of the enemy cavalry. There's a stack of three right next to the city. Our first sword attacks, loses two hps, and drives away one cav unit in the red. Our second sword attacks, inflicts one damage, then dies. Our third sword attacks, KILLS a cav unit losing no health. There is one cavalry unit left, I attack with a conscript rifleman, he kills the cav and promotes to regular!I then send a regular bowman on suicide mission to chase down that wounded cav in the red that retreated earlier. He loses a hp then kills off that cav. We've killed seven American cavalry, lost one sword, promoted one cav to veteran, promoted one draftee to regular, and then our Explorer unit runs across the border and sabotages the main American road leading into our territory! He then pulls back and safely retreats to Fishpond. (Gotta love those Explorers when you need a road pillaged in a bad way. :) ). Now the American cav unit reinforcements will have to spend an extra movement point on their way into our territory. I send a vet rifle out and fortify, to cover the newly promoted draftee. We can't be losing that unit to enemy counterattack after such a glorious victory for the Good Guys!

I then pull the rest of our obsolete units to Peaceful Prairie and upgrade them, and our two cannon finally arrive. Two thirds of our cities are completely empty now, but I keep building factories. I'm betting that France and Iro's will give Abe a rough time. :lol:

Now what to do with our Great Leader? Why, steal an 800 shield wonder right out from the AI noses, of course! I train our leader over to Missionary Point (only city in our entire empire not in the middle of building something important, like a factory) and our leader rushbuilds Universal Suffrage! Ha, so much for the cascade, bet the AI's are now wishing they had researched Free Artistry. But the didn't, and now every wonder left in the game is going to be ours ours ours.

[dance] [party] :jump:

1275AD: American cav unit slaughters our suicide bowman (knew that was coming) and promotes to elite, then runs across the border. The others attack not our city, but the rifles in the field! First the two remaining cav on our land... one rifle is hurt into the yellow, then wins and promotes to elite! Then he is hurt down to yellow again, and wins again! Then two more cav charge across the border to attack our units here and one of our vet rifles is slain. :( Then the conscript has to fight, and he wins again!!

Our one unhurt elite cav chases the cowardly Americans back across the border and...

And that was about it for the Americans. We're in no shape (yet) to go attack them, but with factories online, we have cities that build new cavalry or riflemen every TWO turns, and others that can do it in three or four. Donsig could build us a new army on the first half of his turn and go conquer America on the second half, if that pleases him. :)

1280-1300AD: Our explorer pillaged most of the American lands near our borders, cutting off all their roads into our territory and also cutting all the roads down to San Fran. If nothing else, San Fran is now easy pickins.

We discovered both Sanitation and Electricity, and started on Replaceable Parts. I had to draft some more units, but no city anywhere in our nation got hit up more than once for conscripts. In a pinch, we could draft some more, but I don't think it will be necessary. We now have some cities building military again, and that ought to cover it.

Joania and Hi are mopping the floors with Abe up north, he has lost seven cities to them since attacking us. After those first two turns, all I saw out of him was longbows and pikes. Our second leader was used to make an army and got into some serious action with those longbows and pikes, barely made it back out of American territory in one piece! The army is recuperating now at Fishpond, and can go back to defensive duty at Peaceful Prairie once it has healed up. Babylon is almost done building the Heroic Epic, and we'll be eligible to build Battlefield Medicine and Wall Street soon, too.

I built a lot of rails with all those workers, and their speed will only double again when rep parts comes in. All our cities should be fully improved well before my turn comes back around again.

I also rushbought courthouses out on colony isle so that those cities would get some shields going and stop wasting ALL their income to corruption.

Oh yeah, and we're building the Iron Works now. :)

Next up, donsig. Good luck with the war.


- Sirian

Man, try for a peacefull game and everyone attacks you.

Well, opportunity has knocked, lets open the door.
Donsig, grab some real-estate while the getting is good.

Good work, Sirian.

We can play 10 turns now, 20 is just the maximum. Play 2 turns if it suits you. :)

"Abe is an idiot." Har!! :lol: An even more brilliant move than what Biz did. Gotta like the MPP signed just before that.

And two leaders, and we went from likely to lose every wonder to all-wonders-are-belong-to-us! :hammer:

This might be the first game I've ever seen where we win by conquest and yet NEVER declare war!

Charis

I'll get to it soon. I'm using a vacation day today. Thinking of spending it in San Fran.;)

1305 AD: Our army rests as our workers and cities continue building up the republic's infrastructure.

1310: Heroic Epic is built. Thus inspired our forces advance on San Fran. Pikemen and spearmen are seen fleeing the city...

1315: Our army moves to block the strategig advance to the rear by the Americans. The bombardment of San Fran commences. We build another bank and the people clamor for Wall St. Our rivals begin working on great theaters. The people cry out that Babylon is the center of the cultural universe and WE should build the greatest theater. But we know not how! A senator rises in chambers and begins, "Friends, Babylonians, countrymen: lend me your ears..."

1320: The Iroquois and Americans make peace. The Cultural Police liberate San Fran. Our cavalry then turn to mop up the trapped Americans who have decided to destroy our roads. This mundane action produces a great leader, Sumuabum! He is promply sent to the senate from his home district and is chosen Prime Minister. Driven by the cultural competition, one of Sumuabum's first acts is to strike a deal with Persia. He arranges for the importation of Persian dyes in exchange for our maps and 170 gold (a mere five years surplus). As part of the deal Babylonian medical personel teach the Persians the basics of sanitation while Babylonian artists travel to Persia to study. Sumuabum breaks ground for a great theater vowing to beat all other countries in the race to complete it.

1325: The Americans advance on Peaceful Prarie. Bow and sword militia are called up to rid our soil of the new threat. Babylonian businessmen standardize production by using replaceable parts. England cuts off our fur imports, our treasury surplus drops and the people demand better medical care for our troops.

1330: The bloody battle of Peaceful Prairie begins. We form a defensive line of riflemen to prevent the American knights from entering our territory. The knights leave and American cavalry show up at the front. Riflemen! Rubber lies within Babylon's borders but there are no roads to the source. Doh! Sumuabum travels to London for a summit meeting with Elizabeth. He must cancel the RoP with England and temporarily cut off the exportation of Babylonian silks and gems to England. The prospect of having only furs to wear brings Liz to her senses and a furs for gems and silk deal is made. Sumuabum gets a little cash for his trouble but Babylon's surplus is shrinking.

1335: The Americans are pushed from the vicinity of Peaceful Prairie. Xerxes wants a RoP and MPP agreement but won't pay for it so the senate refuses to ratify the treaty. Egypt cancels the old RoP/gems deal and Sumuabum travels to Thebes for another summit. He does arrange to continue the export of gems to Egypt but at a greatly reduced price. The surplus is now only 44 gold every five years.

1340: The Cultural Police begins operations to liberate Seattle. The senate authorizes the upgrade of our forces. Babylonian scientists standardize research methods.

(I've managed to build a culture generating improvement each turn so far. More to come.:) )

1345 AD: The Cultural Police liberate Seattle. Sumuabum retires to Solstace Tree. His last act is to push legislation through the senate renaming San Fran (Harran), Seattle (Esagil) and Baltimore (Borsippa).

1350: The miltary academy enrolls its first cadets in Fishpond. Wall St. in Deerdale becomes the financial capital of Babylon. We sell the secrets of scientific method to Hiawatha in an effort to boost our treasury surplus. Sumuabum, atrue renaissance man, publishes a theory of evolution in Solstace Tree. In the flurry of scientific activity that follows, the secrets of the atom are explored and amazing feats are accomplished with electrical components.

1355: The aged Sumuabum attends the play Hammurabi V at the new Shakespearian theatre in Babylon. Expansion of the capital building in Babylon.

1360: Dome placed on the capital building. Military medical facility completed in Wheat River.

1365: Shelling of Washington begins as the Cultural Police move to liberate that city.

Our military has suffered some attrition as I concentrated on culture improvements and wonders. Some of our cities are ungarrisoned and we have only one cavalry left for offense (besides the artillery). Washington has wine and rubber for us!

Hoover Dam has not been started yet.

We're still under 25,000 culture points.

Nice use of that Leader. :goodjob: Good job on the trading front, too!

Got all the wonders, and beat down on the Americans with just a few cavalry? Truly our military is the finest in the world!

- Sirian

You know, for a 'peaceful' game, we do seem to be getting a whole lot of GLs over the last few turns. :)

Yeah, great leaders galore. We never had this many as the Germans!

(Gotta go, playing Romance of the 3 Kingdoms II with my son. I'm Cao Cao!:) )

Originally posted by donsig
(Gotta go, playing Romance of the 3 Kingdoms II with my son. I'm Cao Cao!:) ) Cheater. :rolleyes: For a REAL challenge, try playing Liu Bei in the Battle of Red Wall scenario at the hardest level. :D

For a REAL challenge, try playing Liu Bei in the Battle of Red Wall scenario at the hardest level.

It's been a long time since I played ROTK and my son's only eight. We're not ready for challenges yet! He likes sending letters to people and beheading generals. We did conquer one province so far in a joint attack. (He is Liu Bei.)

Who's up in Babylon?

I'm up. :)

Highlights : -

1370 - Building Hoover's Dam in CC. 20 turns. Took out 1 conscript infantry in Washington.

1375 - MPP with France ended. France made peace with America. Almost lost Peaceful Pairie to one American cavalry (single inf was down to last hp) who slip around the troops at the border. Phew!

1380 - Made peace with the Americans for Boston. We have no cavalry to take out the enemy defenders and they keep conscripting infantry in masses. :( Rename Boston to Forlorn Hope after actually seeing where it was. Washington had lost much of its infrastructure fr bombardment BTW.

1390 - Renegotiated lux deals with the French, Persians and Egyptians for 19, 26 and 25 g/turn respectively.

1395 - One army readied in Fishpond. Next leader to decide what to use it for.

1415 - Renegotiated lux deals with Egyptians and Iroquise for 27 and 23 g/turn respectively. Rushed temple in Forlorn Hope for 92 gold.

1420 - We got oil. :)

End

Note - 27552 points in culture.

Charis is next. :)

Great work you two! Good solid turns.

I am in alot of pain at present, my root canal from Friday has gotten infected. Im doped up on vicadan, and in mood to do anything.

I'll try to check up, but dont expect to see me around for a couple days.

Good luck Charis.

I don't want to rush you or have you skip, joespaniel, so I'm going to take an extra day or so to get to this. Came up at same time in our two monster-military modern-era games, so that'll keep me hopping for at a minimum of one more day.

Hope ya feel better....

And Knight, Donsig... excellent turns!! :goodjob:

Charis

Originally posted by Charis
And Knight, Donsig... excellent turns!! :goodjob:

CharisNot really, during my turn. I was hoping we could get Washington and its wine but somehow the Americans began conscripting infantry. Even conscript inf fare well against cavalry, which we don't have in numbers. Plus the French were pulling out of the war.

So have to make peace and quit while we're ahead. :o

We're so close to taking Washington. ;)

*cough-cough* ...switch...production... *cough*...cavalry needed...

...take... *big-cough* Warshington! <drops dead>

;)

Forget cavalry; we're gonna get tanks in a few more turns! :D Then we must somehow 'arrange' for the Americans to attk us. After we have built many tanks of coz. :D

1420 AD (0) - The previous generals get to the very DOORSTEP of Washington,
yet fall short. The people CLAMOR for action, one last push, and yet the
troops are not there. There is an army nearby?? Cool! Er... a 'Rifleman'
army?! Well, uh, that's different, haven't seen that before :P
Where are we with techs? Tanks in about 13 turns? Sweet. My, my, Cattle
Crossing has grown. A wonder city? Working on the great Dam? Nice!
And Fishpond is our leading producer? wow...

Well, actually it is in Abe's hands. We have an MPP with Egypt, and we
*WILL* defend our friends and our homeland. Far be it from us, the cultural
leaders of the planet to declare wear.

Abe... I urge you... choose wisely.

On the OFF chance he does not... I make preparations. Set Fishpond to Army
to hold some tanks :P Fill the existing army with cav. Babylon to troops.
Gosh, we are thin from a military perspective. (That's a relative term,
I don't mean thin as in paper-thin you can see through, like I'm used to)

Abe... you feelin' lucky? There are now *two* armies one step away from
your capital. Two rabid, doberman like, and yet highly cultured, armies, Abe...
(General Knight, btw, you put our reputation at risk here... making peace in
1380 for 20 turns while in an MPP with a country they're at war with. Eep,
Forlorn Hope is empty? You're baiting them! :P )

1425 AD (1) - No one bites, yet.
1430 AD (2) - No ante up. As cities finish orders, we start factories, banks...

1435 AD (3) - France and Egypt sign alliance vs America. France declares war on 'em
Abe orders a cav unit sent to cover Forlorn hope out of his territory
immediately. Yada yada yada. Several of the newly ordered artillery come
online. They stack in Peaceful Prairie.

1440 AD (4) - Abe still quiet??

1445 AD (5) - Our glorious colony feels the need for greater symmetry and
founds Copasetic Coast near Friendly Forest.

1450 AD (6) - America and Persia come to peace terms. Will Egypt ever do
anything :( Oh wait!! Here comes a single Egyptian Ironclad?! What is it
going to do?! Speaking of ships, we start our first Destroyer.

1455 AD (7) - Fishpond finishes its army and starts... the Pentagon :P
That army waits right there, for four tanks to arrive and fill it!

1460 AD (8) - "DA DAM!" DaDam DaDam DaDam... DaDam is complete! Production Soars.
Cattle Crossing now over 60 shields/turn, Wheat River even 60, Fishpond 80!

1465 AD (9) - Forlorn hope gets a good view of the French invasion :P
We mine a Babylon square for an even 60 shields output.

1470 AD (10) - A cultural marvel, the battleship, rolls out of Babylon
MMOW, land improving, things are looking super.

- Looks like we won't get war before Tanks. Abe chose wisely???!
- Might want to pump up luxury to 10% to get more happy folks and better score
- I don't think we've been the one to 'declare' war yet, so don't start now :P
* Where you see "Coal Plant", it's a Tank placeholder! We'll have half dozen
roll off the line turn 1 it arrives.

Good luck, (joespaniel is up)
Charis

Originally posted by Charis
1420 AD (0) - The previous generals get to the very DOORSTEP of Washington, yet fall short. The people CLAMOR for action, one last push, and yet the troops are not there. There is an army nearby?? Cool! Er... a 'Rifleman' army?! Well, uh, that's different, haven't seen that before :PI made the peace cos they're conscripting infantry in numbers. And only 1-2 cavalry. I fear our inf will be worn down by American cavalry and we're not really into replacements yet.

In fact, one was killed by a cavalry unit (it's one of those days). We didn't even take out 1 hp fr the American cavalry. :rolleyes:

Gosh, we are thin from a military perspective. (That's a relative term, I don't mean thin as in paper-thin you can see through, like I'm used to)It's not so bad; only need to mass troops in the west, along the American marches. ;) My turn; we have whole cities inland that're ungarrisoned.

(General Knight, btw, you put our reputation at risk here... making peace in 1380 for 20 turns while in an MPP with a country they're at war with.Who? I thought only MPP with France and Iroquise? Sorry, overlook it.

The French made peace, so time for us to stop as well. For the time being. Esp since we won't be making progress for awhile until we got tanks against inf.

Eep, Forlorn Hope is empty? You're baiting them! :P )Nope, just can't move troops there w/o crossing American territory. :) Nothing conspiratorial. :lol:

>> Gosh, we are thin from a military perspective. (That's a relative
>> term, I don't mean thin as in paper-thin you can see through,
>> like I'm used to)

> It's not so bad; only need to mass troops in the west, along
> the American marches. My turn; we have whole cities inland
> that're ungarrisoned.

Hehe, ya, that's the "paper thin seethrough" I'm more used to. You're right, it's not bad at all.

Peace is the place to be right now. (After motor xport.... hope they do something "unwise")

Charis

Well Im feeling much better. :yeah:

I will take my turn soon. Probably Friday.

At the start of my turn, the Americans were merely "admirers"...

Egypt is our main competition.

Treaties:

Ended MPP with Egypt, as I believe Persia is going to attack her, and I dont want to become embroiled in a war on the other continent. Also, Egypt is a major competitor in culture, so if they lose a few cities, well... *ahem*:rolleyes: ;)

We do have RoP with everyone except America.

America and France continue to slug it out, with no major changes in the situation. If America attacks us again, they are toast. We are the #1 military power now.

Purchased Espionage from France for 80 gold ( a bargain!).

Renegotiated luxury deals for more $$$.

Domestic Front:

Our military is tremendous. We have 1 tank army and another almost complete.

The Intelligence agency is complete (no spies have been planted yet...), as is the Pentagon (The nexy player can add 1 tank to the existing army now).

A new, powerfull navy is emerging. A carrier, 2 battleships and some destroyers now "discourage" our enemies on the seas. 2 more battlewagons and 2 tin cans on the way. We need transports for any possible future invasion and more destroyers for escorting the capitol ships.

Continued to build improvements in many cities, military production is confined to cities that need no more.

We just might make it to 100,000 points, lets keep building universities and cathedrals.

Sirian is up, good luck.

The barbaric Iroquois have destroyed those poor pooooor Americans! :lol:

IT 1500AD: Changed a few things around. We need more Police Stations if we are going to able to sustain a war without a lot of weariness. (Not that we need, or want, to go to war, but it IS wise to "be prepared" for contingencies.)

I also see that people have not been building any granaries. :spank:

1510AD: Cleopatra offers to pay us 120 gold and world map to "assist with the American Problem." Hey, always happy to lend a hand to our friends! :lol:

Our tanks roll into Washington.

Our tanks roll into New York.

1515AD: Our tanks roll into Atlanta.

1520AD: As our tanks watch as hordes upon hordes of Iroquois cavalry race past them to defeat the last of the Americans.

1525AD: We discover Flight and enter the modern era. That's enough excitement for me on one turn, I'm not going to seek another term in office this go-'round. I set most of our larger cities to building airports.


- Sirian

:lol: Oh sure, launch the last war of the game and quit. :lol:

Good land grab Sirian.

OK, donsig is up. I guess all we can do is continue to build as many cultural improvements as possible, and hope its enough by 2050 AD.

I would continue to trade luxuries for luxuries and $$$ but not technology. We dont want someone else to nuke us when we are about to win by culture...:eek:

It would be nice if we could keep all 8 luxuries in our cities.

In my SP game Im currently paying 50 gold per turn for 1 luxury, but it saves me 110 gold per turn since I dont need to set the luxury rate up any higher. I keep the tax rate up the extra point instead.

Just a helpfull hint. ;)

Were coming down to the wire. I think we can pull it off. :D

Originally posted by Sirian
IT 1500AD: Changed a few things around. We need more Police Stations if we are going to able to sustain a war without a lot of weariness. (Not that we need, or want, to go to war, but it IS wise to "be prepared" for contingencies.)Also helps to cut down on corruption. ;)

1510AD: Cleopatra offers to pay us 120 gold and world map to "assist with the American Problem." Hey, always happy to lend a hand to our friends! :lol:

Our tanks roll into Washington.

Our tanks roll into New York.

1515AD: Our tanks roll into Atlanta.You make it sound so effortless.... :cry::lol: I couldn't even scrap together enough cavalry to take Washington, which was down to its last conscript infantry, during my turn. :cry:

I left him 2 tank ARMIES and enough artillery to blow up the continent. :lol:

All this military hardware and no place to go with it... *sigh*

Originally posted by joespaniel
All this military hardware and no place to go with it... *sigh* Resist the temptation, joe. Be strong. :lol: :p

1530 AD: RR building in 'America'. Persia and iroquois sign MPP.

1535: More RR building and pollution clean up on the side. We sign an MPP with France.

1540: There's and Iroquois settler near Buffalo. We're racing for the oil in that area. We do our best to cut Hiawatha off...

1545: our blocking efforts work as the purple settler turns back and we build Oil Gap between Buffalo and Houston. Smoly Mount is founded between St. Louis and LA.

1550: We're exporting gems to the Iroquois for 23 g/t. We try renegotiating but Hiawatha only offers his map and 370 gold. We dial up Cleo but she has a cash flow problem. We sell some Smoky Mount incense to Liz for 16 g/t and 190 up front. Sell Hiawatha's gems to Joan for 50 gold.:lol:

1555: We can make computers. Now our citizens can play Civ III - our culture should shoot way up now! We begin upgrading our armed forces. Hey, New Orleans is French!

1560: Hiawatha wants to swap territory maps. He's probably tweaked about our new gem deal with France. We're not giving him our maps so he can invade. Hey, St. Louis is French, too! Hippies riot in New York. They're still protesting the draft. War's over, wonder what they're smoking? The upgrading of the Cultural Police is more expensive than anticipated so we begin exporting incense to Persia for 260 down and 14g/t. Obsolete military units disbanded - but we keep our rifleman army. Most cities garrisoned with a mech, inf. - those that aren't have one spooled up.

Report of the commision to upgrade the Cultural Police:

Army Group 1: 3 rifles, 1 mech. inf.
Army Group 2: 4 vet. mech. inf.
Army Group 3: 4 tanks
Army Group 4: waiting to be filled with mech. inf. or something better
Army Group 5: see army group 4

We also have 11 vet and 2 elite tanks, 14 artillery (one on Colony Island), 40 workers and an explorer.

Navy: Carrier Task Force (CTF): battleship, destroyer and 2 carriers en route to the Great Bay. A bettleship, destroyer and transport in the southern part of the Great Bay. A battleship near Buffalo and a transport at Colony Island.

Air Force: 2 jets and a bomber with the CTF.

Recomendations: Invest in technology to upgrade our tanks. Build up air force. Build an airport on Colony Island. Build more destrpyers.

1565: Tanks and arty garrisoned in forts near Peaceful Prairie. Army Group 1 is with the arty. Army Group 2 is between Orleans and New Orleans. Army Group 3 is near Atlanta. Army Groups 4 & 5 near Fishpond.

1570: Seti started in Cattle Crossing (which was cranking out 105 beakers before the research lab was built.) Our newest battleship is dispatched to Colony Island. Luscious Lakes built near LA.

1575: Donsig steps down after 45 years at the helm. (It's been only ten turns?!?)

I built an army not knowing we already had 2 empty ones!:o Well, I was able to use one for mech. inf.!

The toughest choice I had was what to research after computers. Should we head for synthetic fibers so we can make modern armor? Go for space flight to build Apollo? Get fission for the UN? I opted for the latter hoping we'd build the UN and control those elections. Fishpond is building the palace as a placeholder for the UN!

Any cities that could build cultural improvements started them. Others built SAMs and coastal fortresses or police stations. I built (or started) many research labs - they produce culture and beakers!

We have 40,888 culture points but England and Egypt may be past the dreaded 50% mark. Babylon will expand to 5 in 37 turns...

Very nice, donsig.

UN was a good choice by me. We can probably win right now with a UN vote.

Knight-Dragon is up.

Fishpond awaits your technological advancement.

Victory may be at hand!

(Then we can start the American SG.) :D

You know; this will probably be the fastest time we've ever completed an SG. :)

Alright, will play in 8-9 hours' time. ;)

Count me in for the American SG too; having never played an expansionist civ before.

You know; this will probably be the fastest time we've ever completed an SG.

Thats probably because we had 5 responsible, top-notch players. ;)

Everyone took their turn on time, and there was no disappearing acts.
I know donsig, Sirian and Charis have other games going too.
Good effort from everyone.

Now lets win this suckah! :king:

Good luck, KD! :goodjob:

A lot of building and pollution cleaning up.

Highlights : -

1575 - Renegotiate some lux deals for more $$$.

1580 - Persia and Egypt MPPed. Elizabeth had better watched out. :lol:

1585 - Building the Manhattan Project in Babylon (for its culture points). Of course, nuclear weopans are a good insurance too. ;) Fishpond switched to the UN. 10 turns to completion.

1600 - France and Iroquiseland MPPed. We had better watched out. :(

1605 - Renegotiate some deals. Cut down on imports. Our younglings are too accustomed to a luxurious life-style. ;)

1615 - Berlin building the Apollo Project. The stars will be within our grasp soon.

1635 - Built the UN. Diplomatic election followed. We almost lose/win the election (depending on how you look at it). It was a tie betw us and old Xerxes. :( Time to persuade some of our friends how to vote right, I say. :lol:

End

We know who our real friends are now. :)

Well we better start sucking-up to Cleopatra if were going to try that again. :lol:

Damn, I thought that would be the last turn too. A good turn though.

Charis is up, lets see what shakes loose.

That was close! Guess Hiawatha 's still a little upset that I cut off his supply of gems. Oops!

Well how much did you suck up to them?


Before I vote I tend to give away free luxuries, cash, and sometime cash ;)

Haha! Fern is size 12! And I just founded that thing recently.

Did somebody actually (gasp!) build a granary there??? :eek: Or has it been more turns than I realize? :p

Glad we didn't lose the game. I say, forget the vote. Let's build a ship and make sure we win! We can diplomatically win by being the first to (diplomatically and culturally) arrive on Alpha Centauri! :lol:

- Sirian

It was indeed a very close thing. Phew.

Anyways, have started the Apollo Program and the next tech is semicon so we're well on our way to a space cultural and diplomatic victory. :)

Before I vote I tend to give away free luxuries, cash, and sometime cash.Eh, nothing? :p

One is not used to having to suck up to 3rd rate minor powers to win. :lol:

Did somebody actually (gasp!) build a granary there???

Something's happened - I've been building granaries in my other games now. If only I could get as many leaders as we've had in this one...

I've inspired a change? :love: Granaries! :goodjob:

POPULATION == POWER

And hey, even if you're the only one who starts to build them, while Joe and Knight itch at the borders, waiting to be unleashed on the next target, your game results should improve notably. :)


- Sirian

Well, joe built a granary (*gasp*) in our American game now and we're also gunning for Pyramids. :)

Well Sirian, one of the reasons I asked you to join was to share your experience with us. Thank you.

In a militaristic game, Im sure I could return the favor.

As for the UN dilema, I think some generous luxury trading and MPPs may flip someone to vote for us next time.

I would concentrate on Iroquois. I think they are the weak link.

Its worth a shot.

I do not consider spaceship a victory option. We began with the understanding that it would be culture or diplomacy.

Culture means playing many more (boring) turns now. So I cast my vote for another attempt at the UN. I am not sure, but I believe the vote comes around every 20 turns.

Lets try influencing Iroquois and Egypt to our side.

Unfortunately, the Cultural Victory option leaves something to be desired. Having to have more than double the next best rival is just brutal, pretty much makes that a semi-Conquest option by default, since the only way to get double everybody else's culture on a robust difficulty level is to eliminate the strong rivals.

And the one city 20000 cultural deal requires complete dedication to early wonder building, right out of the gate.

If you don't want a space victory, then yes, we'll have to persuade some more civs to vote Babylonian! :) That is probably not as difficult as it sounds, but still could get tricky.


- Sirian

Originally posted by Sirian
Unfortunately, the Cultural Victory option leaves something to be desired. Having to have more than double the next best rival is just brutal, pretty much makes that a semi-Conquest option by default, since the only way to get double everybody else's culture on a robust difficulty level is to eliminate the strong rivals.Well, at least we have the hardware to do it now. :) Our cities are now pumping out battleships, tanks, mechs etc cos well, I don't know what else to do with them. :D

Well lets see what Mr Charis can do to "influence" our neighbors.

Vote Babylon! :D

Originally posted by Sirian
And the one city 20000 cultural deal requires complete dedication to early wonder building, right out of the gate.

If you don't want a space victory, then yes, we'll have to persuade some more civs to vote Babylonian! :) That is probably not as difficult as it sounds, but still could get tricky.
- Sirian

Since Babylon will reach 20000 cp near the year 2000 i'm courious what you'll choose the secure win with a lot of boring turns or to risk the vote for a much sooner victory or loss

Anyway thanks for all those interesting games, stories and discussions .

Good Luck with the UN-Vote
Rowain

The world was in confusion...

... whole nations were riding the fence.
... they were unsure of their future.
... there was fear of climbing into a space ship.
... it was a time to call forth a man of action.

Charis 'The Hammer' Hammurabi comes to power! :hammer:

His plan: "Negotiate" a diplomatic victory.
If you've seen the movie "Fifth Element", you know what happens when Bruce Willis goes into the room to "negotiate".

:hammer:
Charis

1635 AD (0) - The last UN vote had come out Babylon+France+England vs the vile
Persians, the cultureless Iroquois, and the scandalous Egyptians.

They bring in 'The Hammer' (Charis Hammurabi) to 'negotiate' a solution.

Negotiate???? Screw that!! We've pansied around all game lickin' boot instead
of kickin' butt!! Time to open up a big ole Babylonian can o' whooparse
and let loose!!! "But... uh, sir?!" "QUIET! My pet project the Manhatten
Project is underway, done soon. I'll have nukes, and by the stars, I'm a'
gonna use 'em!"

:eek:

1650 AD - The Manhatten Project is completed.
1655 AD - Tactical nukes are rushed throughout Babylon. ICBM's, nuclear subs,
and launch vehicles are prepared.
1660 AD - The Hammer opens up the red button case, and presses it.

Nuclear launch authorization. Code authorization... "HAMMER" :hammer:

1680 AD - Just twenty years later, the Iroquois nation is destroyed. Actually,
that's far too weak a word. It's glowing. Their fields are awash in glow.
They are no more. Egypt is devastated. Their top fives cities gone.
Thebes lights up the night sky, even though all electricity sources have been
destroyed.

1690 AD - The governors plead for him to step down, but the Hammer cannot be
stopped. Even his allies, France and England, are having major doubts. They
try to talk to him, try to get him to calm down.

Nuclear launch authorized vs Paris and London. Code authorization... "HAMMER"

1700 AD - Global warming strikes in 27 spots. The aquatic live in Fishpond
are so badly contaminated, it becomes more like the Dead Sea.

1705 AD - Finally, and rather belatedly, the Hammer steps down.

The "Negotiations" are complete. All five of our enemies are begging to
surrender at any cost, and the spaceship is on its way to completion.

It's time to get off this stinkin' planet...

Charis 'The Hammer' Hammurabi, signing off.

EDIT -- forgot to post the save file, will do so next post.

That's..... somewhat unexpected. :lol:

"Hammer, you had me wetting my pants! I thought those plans were for real!!"

"Well, we DID not only start, but complete, the Manhattan Project. We had
the capability, and the government brought in a leader that others knew
would not cringe from pushing the button."

"But sir, that was... devious. The Iroquois ambassador turned pale, oh so
pale, and Cleopatra, her eyes popped out of her head. They didn't know whether
to believe the 'plans'. That was rather clever to have the Babylonian
Left Wing green party leader give a not-so-anonymous tip that these were your
genuine plans, and leak a copy to the undersecretaries in Egypt. It had just
enough ring of truth, but was done at a low level, easily and plausibly deniable."

"Clarify again, what happened, Mr. Secretary!"

"Oh my, it was dreadfully simple. I completed the Manhattan project, and
let all my governors handle affairs -- I knew they would pick a huge military
buildup, leading further credence to the story. Then in 1680, I talked personally
to Cleopatra and Hiwatha, assured them that such 'leaked' plans were ludicrous,
and that I was a deep and true friend. So much so, that I laid bare our
secrets. I shared with them our computer network, knowledge of the transistors,
and other absolute marvels of technology. And I established a fund, earmarked
for benevolence programs for their very children and education system, and
seeded these programs out of my own pockets. Cleopatra was gracious *instantly*,
while Hiawatha required some extra prodding. He was a much better bargainer,
getting several techs. But with him, I laughed in a very casual way, "Iroquois
lands lighting up the night sky, haha!!! That's hilarious! That would NEVER,
EVER happen. I mean, well, sure it COULD, that we had an arsenal capable of
it, but really, why would I, the gentle Hammer, ever do such a thing." The room
then went silent. Coldly, starkly silent. He understood."

If it were not for the need to 'persuade' the rest of the world of our
tremendous culture, I would never have built the 'Project'. Far too dangerous.
Xerces is a wild man, he would not have had the restraint I did.

We were, in the end, far too cultured for anything but a diplomatic victory.
The elections were held in my final year (they come every 10 turns, or so did
I think), and it was unanimous except for Xerces himself. 5-1, a landslide.
"Our bards will write ballads of your deeds and accomplishments!" entoned Cleo :P
"What a splendid display of tact and strategy!" said Joanie, with a smile.
Indeed, Babylon is now the top city in all the world. Cattle Crossing and...
would you believe it... Silkton, are also in the top five! (London and
Salamanca somehow snuck in) We were by far the dominant culture as well.

"Thank you Mr. Secretary! You will forever be remembered as...
... Hammurabi the Magnificent!!"

"Oh please, I winked... call me Hammer!" :hammer:

Charis

(On this final turn, everyone should download and load, hit enter, then take any default choices and hit "YES" when it asks if you want to have a UN vote)

Good job! :goodjob: And great posts! :goodjob:

I really thought you've gone bonkers there, launching nukes and bringing in a nuclear winter. :) Devious. :crazyeye:

What's our final score?

[dance]Thats the way, uh-huh uh-huh, I like it, uh-huh uh-huh![dance]

Diplomacy Victory!

Good post Charis, you had me going there for a minute. :lol:

Great job everyone! :goodjob:
We tried something new, and aside from the early hesitation (which is understandable) played a solid game. I had alot of fun with it.

Thanks guys!

Had me snowed, too. Good job.:goodjob:

...downloading the save so I can watch the replay, see the score, etc etc.

Good game, guys! :goodjob: GO GRANARIES!!! :lol:

- Sirian

I plan to download all the saves and then upload them the 'new improved' way so they'll be archived. It may take me a week or two to get to this game. In the mean time please don't delete any saves!:)

Too late on my end, I canned all saves from my finished SG's.

Sorry for any inconveniences. :)

- Sirian

Too late on my end, I canned all saves from my finished SG's.

That's ok - there's enough saves left to prove that the WARMONGERS can get a diplomatic victory!;)