Ploep has asked me to massage the XML data to make the individual leaders more individual. :) What I need from the rest of the WHFB team are ideas about the specific behavior each leader exhibits. This is very different from Traits, those are separate and don't need to be considered here yet. For example, being Militaristic doesn't necessarily mean the leader is a Warmonger. They might go together, but they don't have to.

Points to take into account for each leader (this is not the whole list yet):

Do they build Wonders? Think Louis from vanilla.
Do they build tons of units? Napolean for example
Do they Pile on when another civ is engaged in war?
Do they respect warmongers?
Will they declare war if the opponent is stronger? How much stronger?
Do they declare long distance wars?
Do they Raze cities?
How do they handle rebuking? Peace or War?
How long of a memory for rebukes?
Will they trade techs? How often?
Do borders cause tension?
Religious differences important?
What is their main Flavor? Military, Science, other?
What about UNITAI? Defense, Attack, counter?

That's a small sampling of fields that can be altered to shape each leader's behavior. Small changes here and there can make a huge difference in gaming enjoyment.

Leaders and their progress to be listed in the next 3 posts.

Amazons(not in yet)

Arabya

Jaffar -

Bretonia

Louen -

Gilles -

Cathay

Emporer Wu -

Empire

Karl - Wonders, don't handle rebuke well, no razing

Magnus - Wonders, don't handle rebuke well, no razing

Estalia

Jose'Paul -

Ind

Akabar -

Kislev

Boris - constant warfare

Katarin the Icequeen -

Nippon

Takagura -

Norse

Haargroth - Likes limited wars. Quick to declare, quick to peace.

Tilea

Marco Columbo -

Luccini and Lucan -

Beastmen(not included yet)

Chaos

Archaon - Raze cities, units not Wonders building, opponent strength not important.

Chaos Dwarfs(not in yet)

Darkelves

Witchking Malekith - sneaky, likely to dogpile

Morathi the Hagqueen - sneaky, likely to dogpile

Dwarfs

King Thorgrimm - Long memory of rebukes. Build Wonders, might war against other dwarves.

Baragor - Long memory of rebukes.

Ogre Lords(not in yet)

Greaser Goldtooth -

Orcs

Grimgor Ironhide - respect warmongers

Azhag the Slaughterer - respect warmongers

Gobbos(not in yet)

Grom the Pauch -

Skarsnik -

Highelves

Aenarion - Wonders

Finubar - Wonders

Hobgoblin Hegemony(not in yet)

Tombkings

Settra the Unperishable -

Khalidar -

Lizardmen

Mazdamundi -

Tenehuini(not playable yet) -

Skaven(not in yet)

Morskitter? -

Ikit Claw? -

Sylvanians

Vlad -

Nagash -

Woodelves :D

Ariel - UNITAI_DEFENSE favored

Orion -

Since it' my day today I will give my 2cents to everything. Don't worry I will concentrate more on modeling later again.:D

I think Haargroth will be quick in declaring war and quick to withdraw again if the reponse is to strong. That whould be quite fitting to simulate the constant ambushes by the norse civ.

Archaon won't care how strong any opponent might be and not building much wonders more tending to constant warfare and unitbuilding en masse. Razing cities is what he likes the most.

orcs will respect warmongers only for the challenge of it no matter how strong but may cease fire cause of the lack of moral in their armies if they get beaten.

Highelves will build wonders alot as well as the Empire I suppose.

About rebuking I think you're either with the Empire or against it.

Kislev is accostumed to constant warfare

Woodelves will be defensive Ariel more Orion a little less maybe.

Bretonnia will join the cause of what they think is justice.

Dwarfs have a memory of thousands of years if you rebuke them you'll be written into the book of grudges:D Baragor the Slayer may be a little more eager to go to war with his kin than Thorgrim might do(a guess). He'll probably prefer building wonders.

The empire won't destroy cities it will devour and assimilate them. Improving the cities.

Borders won't cause tensions much between the empire, bretonnia and kislev

Orion might not like it if mortals enter his woods.

Religions difference is depending on religion. That's something we'll still have to talk about a lot.

Darkelves are full of evil but cunning they won't mess with enemies stronger then they are but attack at once if they see advantage.

I hope this'll help a bit.

This helps a lot Ploep. Once I finally edit the above posts with specific leaders people can more easily chime in and build on what you've started.

Ploep - bear in mind when a civ has multiple rulers you need to distinquish what make the leaders different. I'll add in some of what you posted above and then hope some others can start shaping the individual leaders.

Ploep - bear in mind when a civ has multiple rulers you need to distinquish what make the leaders different. I'll add in some of what you posted above and then hope some others can start shaping the individual leaders.
Yes of course ask P.L. to help about that. I also will think further on that subject. Now I'm at work but tonight maybe another add;)

Hey, heres my ideas on this.

Arabya

Jaffar – Is a powerful sorcerer, who was convinced by the scaven to invade estalia, so I guess a warmonger? Or maby easy to persuade?

Bretonnia

Louen – very defensive, and said to have been blesses the the Lady of the lake herself, so maybe spiritual?

Gilles – very charismatic, first united the human clans in bretonnia, so quite organised. Maybe increased unit production, decrease unit cost?

Cathay

Emporer Wu -

Empire

Karl - The Emperor takes personal command of his army whenever possible. Mostly defensive. Likes large standing armies. (Wonders, don't handle rebuke well, no razing)

Magnus - Wonders, don't handle rebuke well, no razing

Estalia

Jose'Paul – pacifistic, religious, don't like warmongers

Ind

Akabar -

Kislev

Boris - constant warfare, hires lots of mercenaries, large army.

Katarin the Icequeen – master of ice magic. The Tzarina, in keeping with her icy powers, is aloof and remote, preferring to work through agents and generals

Nippon

Takagura – favors peace and security above all, haves warmongers. Happiness and culture are specialities. Technological.

Norse

Haargroth - Likes limited wars. Quick to declare, quick to peace.


Tilea

Marco Columbo – merchant prince. Large navy, explorative. Not too fond of wars.

Luccini and Lucan - bizarre sense of humour. Internal warfare more than external. (city states)

Beastmen(not included yet)

Chaos

Archaon - Raze cities, units not Wonders building, opponent strength not important.

Chaos Dwarfs(not in yet)

Darkelves

Witchking Malekith - sneaky, likely to dogpile. Really likes assassins. sarcastic

Morathi the Hagqueen - sneaky, likely to dogpile Really likes assassins. Impossible to deal with.

Dwarfs

King Thorgrimm - Long memory of rebukes. Build Wonders, will war against chaos dwarves. Hates gobbos

Baragor - Long memory of rebukes.

Ogre Lords(not in yet)

Greaseus Goldtooth – consumerism. Rich. Loves gold and money. Will go to war for any sum of money. Does anything for money

Orcs

Grimgor Ironhide - respect warmongers

Azhag the Slaughterer - respect warmongers

Gobbos(not in yet)

Grom the Pauch -

Skarsnik -

Highelves

Aenarion – Wonders. Defensive. Large standing army. Hates warmongers

Finubar – Wonders, mercantile. Huge navy

Hobgoblin Hegemony(not in yet)

Tombkings

Settra the Imperishable – wonders, Long memory of rebukes, hates nagash. Large army

Khalidar – wonders, Long memory of rebukes, hates nagash. Very charismatic

Lizardmen

Mazdamundi -

Tenehuini(not playable yet) -

Skaven(not in yet)

Morskitter? -

Ikit Claw – magical, technological, sneaky

Sylvanians

Vlad -

Nagash – magical, warmongerer

Woodelves :)

Ariel – Defensive, hates warmongers. Wonders, magical.

Orion – Defensive (more than Ariel FYI), Long memory of rebukes

Thanks P_L. Once I add these to the first few posts we'll have an idea who we need to focus on and also if anyone else has differing or similar opinions.

Takagura should definitly be agricultural and maybe organized

Haargroth of course seafaring and aggressive

Chaos and both orcs also aggressive(we might give some leaders three traits to diverse them enough)

Those are Traits! :p

Should we start another thread for those? Also, I really hope you guys are planning on some new traits.

Those are Traits! :p

Should we start another thread for those? Also, I really hope you guys are planning on some new traits.
I thought we discuss this here too but another thread could be useful too indeed. Care to start it?

I shall oh fearless Leader. ;)

Are there some dicisions you need help for here still?

Are there some dicisions you need help for here still?

:lol:

When I start entering in the numbers I'll start pestering you guys about specific leaders. Right now they need some work. ;)

:lol:

When I start entering in the numbers I'll start pestering you guys about specific leaders. Right now they need some work. ;)
Ok concentrate on Woodelves, Highelves, Orcs, Nippon, Cathay, the Empire, Norse and Tilea that are the civs we'll have the funstuff for(units). Do you think that's possible to have on friday? If not no problem that can be still added in the playtestweek but I need a running version of this by friday no matter how generic it is.

That helps Ploep. Thanks. Check you PM please since I need a file or need to find it anyhow.

Could you upload your current Leaderinf now already? I can't enter the worlbuilder and want to know if that's because of missing Leaders in that file makes only sense of course if you already added them all).

Oops. The Civ4LeaderheadInfos file is at work, but I didn't alter that at all yet. The only file I changed today was my own diplo and text file. So long as you don't alter any names we'll be on the same wavelength.

Tomorrow or the next day I'll do behavior.

Oops. The Civ4LeaderheadInfos file is at work, but I didn't alter that at all yet. The only file I changed today was my own diplo and text file. So long as you don't alter any names we'll be on the same wavelength.

Tomorrow or the next day I'll do behavior.
Ah no forget about I meant the diploinf - just were posting in the wrong thread with the wrong thought:mischief:

I'll upload what I have around 6-7am EST tomorrow.

Can I add that we don't have a ton of feedback for how these leaders are going to behave? I can go ahead and muddle through and then after playtesting can make alterations based on feedback. Is that good enough?

Ploep - When the Civ4LeaderheadInfos xml file was created how was it done? Did you guys simply overwrite the Vanilla and then c/p the rest? Did you try to match up Vanilla leaders with similar WH ones? What lines have you edited already? If the answer to any or all of the above is that you don't know and JP did most of it then I'll butcher it apart for my behavior.

Can I add that we don't have a ton of feedback for how these leaders are going to behave? I can go ahead and muddle through and then after playtesting can make alterations based on feedback. Is that good enough?
Yes indeed it is;)

Ploep - When the Civ4LeaderheadInfos xml file was created how was it done? Did you guys simply overwrite the Vanilla and then c/p the rest? Did you try to match up Vanilla leaders with similar WH ones? What lines have you edited already? If the answer to any or all of the above is that you don't know and JP did most of it then I'll butcher it apart for my behavior.
I think JP tried to find similar vannila files and just changed names as I did myself. Get on butchering;)

That's what I needed to know. I'm finding more and more fields I'm going to manipulate so I hope to create some unique leaders.

Ok, here's (http://www.filegone.com/9666) the file Ploep. Filegone again.

Leaders tweaked:

Wu
Ariel
Orion
Takagura
Grimgor
Azhag
Finubar
Aenarion
Lucan
Marco
Karl
Magnus
Haargroth

Behaviors tweaked:



iWonderConstructionRand
iBaseAttitude
iBasePeaceWeightRand
iWarmongerRespect
iTechTradeKnownPercent
iMaxWarRand
iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio
iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio
iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent
iLimitedWarRand
iLimitedWarPowerRatio
iDogPileWarRand
iMakePeaceRand
iRazeCityProb
iBuildUnitProb
iBaseAttackOddsChange
iWorseRankAttitudeChange
iBetterRankAttitudeChange
iCloseBordersAttitudeChange
iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit
iDifferentReligionAttitudeChange
Flavors
UNITAI

Thx a ton Woodelf. Curious how this will feel, heh. The Mod's already surpassed 230 MB and I still have packed files in and the orcs are missing. Next week will be tough finding appropriate unitstats for all those units:crazyeye:
I already needed three hours copying all the units into the folder only, puh. I admit though I took a lot from FFH too. I certainly wil sort out a few again.

No problem. I can't wait to see how differently they play. It's a work in progress during playtesting and once the (occassionally ungrateful) public gets their hands on it. :)

No problem. I can't wait to see how differently they play. It's a work in progress during playtesting and once the (occassionally ungrateful) public gets their hands on it. :)
We'll see I think it would be better at least designing unitstats for five or six civs before we release and not to forget all of those units have to be attached to certain techs. That'll be a lot to do!
And I already shake in terror as I think what xml else I have to merge.

AAAAAAH, damn it damn it! I accidentally deleted the vanilla Leaderinf. God I'm tired can you send me the vanilla file? please.

Why do you need the Vanilla?

I don't have it at work unfortunately.

Shouldn't it still be in your recycling bin?

Shouldn't it still be in your recycling bin?

He overwrote it most likely.

Shouldn't it still be in your recycling bin?
:confused: what's this now?

Its a folder on your desktop where all the files you have deleted go.

Oh not this one. anyway got a new one.;)

@Woodelf

I assume you meant unitai_city_defense not unitai_defense right? I changed that. Otherwise it seems to work so far. Curious how it plays as soon we got the units in:)

Edit: Changed Finubar to flavor gold instead of science (he's a trader) the rest I leave as is for playtesting just setting new traits.

Yeah, good catch. You could also use RESERVE. I don't know what it really does though.

Most of the Flavors I either left as is or did a best guess.

Now that serious playtesting has begun can you guys let me know what you think of the Leaders behavior? I want to see if it's in line with what you guys want in WHFB.