This thread is where i will post any ideas i have on magic, and any race specific spells etc. Everyone else, please do the same if you have any ideas;) it will be good if we can get all our ideas down.

Ill start us off with a little on the 8 main colleges of magic:

the 8 colleges of magic in Altdorf:

There are eight colleges of magic, one for each of the ‘colours’ of the winds of magic:
Amber (beasts)
Amethyst (death)
Bright (fire)
Celestial (heavens)
Gold (metal)
Grey (shadow)
Jade (life)
Light (light).
The three most spectacular college buildings - the flame-topped towers of the Bright college, the lofty spires of the Celestial college and the mystic pyramid of the Light college – are magically concealed so that few residents of Altdorf are even aware of their presence. The Jade college, a thing formed from living trees, is hidden behind high stone walls. The Grey college is a run-down building located in the city’s poorest slums, and allegedly connects to many secret tunnels. The college of the Amethyst order overlooks the infamous haunted cemetery of Old Altdorf, the resting place of the plague victims, and few dare go near it. The Alchemists of the Gold college maintain a vast, smoke-billowing forge complex, and pollute the river Reik with their arcane chemicals. Only the Amber order has no college within the city, preferring instead the caves of the Amber Hills, away from the civilisation that is the antipathy of their magic.

From the wind of Aqshy comes the Lore of Fire or Pyromancy

Fire magic is practiced in varying degrees of accomplishment by several races of the Warhammer World. In the Empire its secrets are kept by the Wizards of the Bright Flame, or Pyromancers, whose fire toped towers rise above the city of Altdorf.

All of these spells are considered to be Fire attacks (when fire attacks are put into the game) and cause double damage against flammable creatures.

1. FIRE BALL: (ATTACKSPELL) summons a fire ball unit with 3 movement and a random strength between 4 and 10.

2. FLAMING SWORD OF RHUIN: (SELFSPELL) spell is cast on the the caster himself.
A magical flaming blade appears in the casters hand and counts as Magic and fire damage. The Wizard recieves the blitz promotion as long as this spell is in play. The caster also gets +2 strength.
similar to FfH Enchanted Blade- Grants the Enchanted Blade promotion to Melee units in the tile. It also removes the Rusted effect from any unit in the tile.


3. FIERY BLAST: (COLLATERALSPELL) an up graded version of Fireball, being more powerful and harder to cast. Summons a Fiery blast unit with 3 movements and 4 -16 strength.

4. BURNING HEAD: (COLLATERALSPELL) a phantasmic Flaming Head is conjored by the caster shooting out in front of the caster in a striaght line, laughing insanely as it burns a trial of destruction in its path.
Everything in the 2 tiles directly in front of the caster is delt 4 instant damage, all improvements are destroyed, and forest fires are started.

5. CONFLAGRATION OF DOOM: (COLLATERALSPELL) can be cast on any unit in the line of sight of the caster. The target and all of his stack instantly burst into flames and take an instant 4 - 10 damage each. The fire has a 25% chance of going out each turn releasing the unit from the spells effect. Each consecutive turn that a unit is on fire, it recieves an instant 2 damage.
The caster cannot cast again untill the fire is out, because of the strain taken to hold it there.
similar to FfH Pillar of Fire- Does damage to all units in a stack.

6. WALL OF FIRE: (ATTACKSPELL) can be cast on any unit within 3 squares of the caster. The unit is surrounded by searing flames that rise 10 feet into the air, and each unit in the stack recieves an instant 1 damage. This spell remains in play untill it is dispelled or the caster casts another spell. no further damage is delt to the unit unless it attempts to cross through the Wall, i which case, all units recieve a further 4 hits.
The caster cannot cast another spell next turn.

From the wind of Chamon comes the Lore of Metal or Alchemy

In the lands of men, the Lore of Metal is more commonly known as Alchemy. It is practiced by many races, but few are as devoted to it as Men. If there is a truth in common talk than there are many fortunes to be won by mean of Alcemical sorcery.The Alchemists ofthe Golden order at Altdorf have the Emperor's ear in all matters of state and war -or so it is said by ordinary folk of the town.

1. RULE OF BURNING IRON: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster chooses any unit within 2 squares, (only one unit is affected which is chosen by the caster), and that unit suffers 3-6 damage. this counts as a fire attack and therefore does double damage sgainst flamable units.

2. COMMANDMENT OF BRASS: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster chooses one war machine or chariot type unit within his line of sight. the target unit is imobalized until the spell ends.

3. TRANSMUTATION OF LEAD: (ATTACKSPELL.) this spell can be cast on an enemy unit within sight of the caster. all of the targets armour and weapons ar transmuted into lead for one turn. the affected unit loses all first strikes, the blitz promotion, and cannot move untill the spell is ended.

4. DISTILLATION OF MOLTEN SILVER: (COLLATERALSPELL) the mage sends a squall of molten silver to hit any unit within the caster's line of sight. The target gets 4 - 16 damage delt to them instantly. Counts as a fire attack and therefore causes double damage against flamable targets.

5. LAW OF GOLD: (ATTACKSPELL.) there is a 60% chance of the item not working for the next 2 turns, and a 40% chance of the item being 'stolen' and sold by the caster, creating a random ammount of gold for his civ, between 250-1000

6. BANE OF FORGED STEEL: (ATTACKSPELL) can only be cast on units in Line of sight of the caster. the targest weapons begin to crumble and rust away, and the units strength is halved for the remainder of the battle. (can stack)
Similar to FfH Rust- Melee units get a negative promotion that lasts until they return to a barracks, metal based units suffer damage.


From the wind of Ghur comes the Lore of Beasts.
The Lore of Beasts is the Magic of Shamans and animal spirits. It is a sorcery of wild and primitive races, or creatures that shun cities of men, and of men who have turned their backs upon the ways of their own kind.

1. BUCCOS THE OXEN STANDS: (HELPSPELL) The target unit does not flee from panic, fear, or terror, for the next time it tries to flee.

2. ADLOS THE EAGLES CRY: (ATTACKSPELL) Target one enemy cavalry unit or monster (ie swarm or dragon) in sight of the caster. the target creature becomes momentarily wild and uncontrolable.
the affected unit takes a leadership test, if it passes, the unit suffers -1 movement. If it fails the test, the target unit moves 1-3 squares in a random direction.

3. URSOS THE BEAR' ANGER: (SELFSPELL) This spell is cast on the wizard himself. he becomes as wild and powerful as a mighty bear. He gains the blitz promotion, +2 strength, and +1 movement.
This spell lasts until it is dispelled or the caster casts another spell.

4. CORVOS THE CROW' FEAST: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster summons a murder of crows which has 3 movement and has 4 - 16 strength. the crows disapear after they have feasted.

5. KINOS THE BEAST COWERS: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster selects any enemy cavalry unit or monster unit. any cavalry or moster unit in the stack have their strength reduced to one. these units can only defend.

6. LUPENS THE WOLF HUNTS: (HELPSPELL) this spell can be cast on any friendly unit of cavalry, or monsters within sight of the caster. the targeted unit moves 1-3 squares toward the nearest enemy unit, if they meet, combat is initiated, the charged enemy from this spell cannor flee and can only stand their ground due to the speed of the spell.
if no enemy is in sight of the target, they move in the direction they are facing.

From the wind of Hysh comes the Lore of Light
The Lore of ligth is a magic of bright and radiant power, of the solar wind, and of life giving energy. Wizards who practice this art are sometimes called White Wizards or Heirophants. It is the magic of solar rituals, carefully guarded secrets and ancient ceremonies.

1. PHA'S ILLUMINATION: (SELFSPELL) this spell is cast on the wizard himself. The wizard is temporarily (next turn only) able to cast one other random spell from any sphere.

2. SHEM'S BURNING GAZE: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster summons a Burning Gaze, which had 3 movement and deals 4 -10 damage. It dissapears when this turn is over.

3. URRU'S DAZZLING BRIGHTNESS: (ATTACKSPELL)The caster selects one enemy unit within 2 squares of himself. The target has all of his first strikes removed, and has his strength reduced to 1.

4. ULZAH'S HEALING HAND: (HELPSPELL) all friendly unitis in the casters stack has their strength replenished back to full. does not affect deamonic or undead, or other unliving units(ie machines)
similar to FfH Heal- Heals all units in the casters tile.

5. KARU'S Guardian Light: (HELPSPELL) this spell affects all friendly units within 2 squares of the caster. all affected units are now immune to psychology, and also no longer flee. remains in play untill dispelled or the caster casts another spell.

6. AMSHU'S BLINDING LIGHT: (COLLATERALSPELL)all enemis in the caster's line of sight cannot move in their next turn and their first strikes are lost, and their strength is reduced by 1 (cannot go below 1).
The caster cannot cast this spell again next turn.

From the wind of Azyr comes the Lore of The Heavens or Astromancy
In the cities if Men, the Lore of the Heavens is called Astromancy. It is the magic of the sky and stars, of portents, fate and the movement of heavenly bodies

1. SECOND SIGN OF AMUL: (SELFSPELL) The caster can cast one additional Heavens spell in any one of his next turns. when this additional spell is cast, The Second Sign ends. This effect does not stack.
similar to FfH Spellstaff- Grants the Spellstaff promotion to the caster, breaking a spellstaff renews the casters casting ability.

2. PORTENT OF FAR: (HELPSPELL) The caster targets any one ajacent, friendly unit. the target become blessed with the knowledge of its near future, and therefore all subsequent attacks for the next turn are garenteed to damage the enemy. (not each battle, but each hit, if you know what i mean). Lasts one turn only.
similar to FfH Reversal of Fortune- Gives a bonus to target unit relative to strength difference between it and higher strength opponents


3. FORKED LIGHTNING: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster summons a Forked Lightning unit with the blitz promotion, 5 movement and has 2 - 8 strength, causes collateral damage.

4. URANON'S THUNDERBOLT: ( ATTACKSPELL) the caster summons a Thunderbolt unit, which has 3 movement and has 6 - 12 strength.

5. STORM OF CORNOS: (COLLATERALSPELL) all enemy units in line of sight of the caster are delt 2 - 8 damage.

6. THE COMET OF CASANDORA: (COLATERALSPELL) thew caster selects one square in his line of sight. This square becomes the point of impact of an enormous comet. the square is marked by a glowing circle.
each turn, there is a 50% chance of nothing happening, but another circle is added to the target square. the other 50% there is a chance of the commet striking. all units that are within 1 square, times the number of circles on the target, are struck, and delt 5 - 12 damage each.
(for examle if the comet does not strike for 3 turns, there will be 3 circles in place, so the 1 square is multiplied by the number if circles. so 1x3 = 3. so all units within 3 squares of the target location are struck.)
affects ALL units, owned and enemy, but not the caster.
caster cannot cast any spells while the markers are in place.

From the wind of Ulgu comes the Lore of Shadow
In the land of the Empire, Wizards of the Shadow call themselves Grey wizards, as if to distance themselves from the sinister reputation of their sorcery. They are more often called trickster wizards by the common folk, who mistrust and rear them. Shadow lore is the magic of deceit and illusion, of trickery concealment and darkness.

1. STEED OF SHADOWS: (SELF / HELPSPELL) the wizard can target himself or one other friendly unit in his stack. cannot be cat on mounted units or monsters. the target gets a temporary boost to his movement, being increased by 1. (ie if the base mov is 1, then a unit with a Shadow Steed has 2 movement for one turn.)
Similar to FfH Haste- Gives every unit in the casters stack +1 movement for a turn.

2. CREEPING DEATH: (ATTACKSPELL) thecaster summons a Creaping Death unit, with 3 movement, and 3 - 8 strength, and all defencive bonuses are removed.

3. PELT OF MIDNIGHT: (HELPSPELL) the caster select on friendly unit in His line of sight, that unit is shrouded in a cloud of fog of war that extends 2 squares out from him. the target also gains a temproary defensive bonus agains ranged units

4. SHADES OF DEATH: (HELPSPELL) target unit now causes fear, if italready caused fear then it now casues terror. does not stack.

5. UNSEEN LURKER: (ATTACKSPELL?) the caster summons and immobile unit, with 6 strenght. any non-player unit which moves next to it is instantly attacked by the lurker. The lurker does not cause war when it attacks. The lurker is invisible to all except he owner.

6. PIT OF SHADES: (ATTACKSPELL) this spell can be cast on any unit in line of sight of any of the owners casters. the the target unit is engulfed in a pit of shadow, which traps him for 1-3 turns, the length of time is random. each turn that the unit is in the pit, he suffers 1-2 damage. whn the spell ends the unit climbs out of the pit.

From the wind of Ghyran comes the Lore of Life
The Lore of life is the magical Lore of the growing earth and as such is bound to the changing seasons. Few creatures of any race understand the nature of growing things as do these wizards. Is is a form of magic that exists in all water, and vegetation and is strongest when it is close to places wher rivers run and where forests grow most abundantly.

1. AIODH SILVERHYL, MISTRESS OF THE MARSH: (ATTACKSPELL)The caster chooses one enemy unit in his line of sight, that is next to a river, lake or coastal square, or is next to him. the land beneath the targets feet turn muddy and putrid, and becomes swamp. the unit cannot move for the next turn, and can only defend, and cannot flee. the swamp dissapears when the caster casts another spell.
similar to FfH Bloom- Creates a "starter" Forest (only makes a marsh)

2. BHEORTAIN BRIARTANGLE, FATHER OF THE THORN: (ATTACKSPELL)The caster targets one enemy unit in his line of sight. briars and thorns shoot from the ground, entangling the targets limbs and dealing 3-8 damage. the target cannot move for the duration of the spell, can only defend, and cannot flee.
similar to FfH Entangle- Chance to root every unit in the tile for 1 turn, can be resited.

3. THE HOWLER WIND: (SELFSPELL) the wizard casts this spell on himself. all enemy ranged units have a 75% chance of 'missing' when they attack the caster or any friendly units next to the caster. this does not affect the owners ranged units from shooting. Enemies must take a leadership test befor entering the Howler Wind.
Could replace effect with the effects of FfH Tremor- Moves all enemy units within 1 tile of the caster a tile away

4. MASTER OF THE WOOD: (COLLATERALSPELL)The caster target one enemy stack in a forest. the target forest comes alive, the branches and roots battering and bashng the target unit. all units in the stack suffer 4-8 damage. this spell does not affect dryads, treemen, treekin or any other forest spirit.


5. MASTER OF STONE: (COLLATERALSPELL) The caster target one enemy stack on a hill or next to a peak. the target terrain feature comes alive, the rocks and bolders shooting toward, and avalanches falling on the target unit. all units in the stack suffer 4-10 damage. this spell does not affect trolls, giants or golems.
Could replace effect with the effects of FfH Earthquake- Destroys buildings and improvements

6. THE RAIN LORD: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster casts this spell on one enemy ranged or siege weapon unit in his line of sight. the target is enveloped in rain and gets a soaking. the soaked unit has a 50% chance of missing when it shoots because bow strings become damp and useless, and ropes stretch and dont work properly. any gunpowder based unit (or any unit powered by steam, fire, or blackpowder), has a 1/6 chance of being able to shoot again. if the unit fails this, (ie the 5/6 chance) the the affected unit cannot attack for the rest of the game-this is not a magical effect, they are wet! a unit can only be soaked one.
This spell can also be used to 'put out' units that are on fire (ie flamable units) and deals damage to fire basedunits and heals water based units.
Could change effects to FfH effects of Tsunami- Can only be cast against tiles bordering the ocean, damages units and destroys buildings and improvements. Has a small chance to convert that tile to a coast tile.


From the wind of Shyish comes the Lore of Death or Amethyst


Though the Lore of Death, or Amethist Magic, is the most feared of sorceries, not all practicioners are evil or ill-intended. It is the magic of bygone ages and draws its poere deeply from the relm of the dead.

1. DARK HAND OF DEATH: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster summons a 'Dark hand' unit with 2 moves and 4 strength.

2. DEATH DEALER: (HELPSPELL) The caster targets a friendly unit. the target unit now has the ability to deal an extra blow if they die. using their last ounceof strength, they lash out at their enemies.

3. STEAL SOUL: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster targets one enemy modle within his sight. the targets soul is torn and rendered by dark forces and sacrificed to the caster himself.
The enemy looses one strength permanently, and the caster gains one strength permanently.
if used multiple times, there is a chance (15%) that it may backfire, and instead of gaining an extra strength, the stolen soul may release one of previous victims, making the caster loose one of his extra strength.
(does not affect undead or chaos demons)

4. WIND OF DEATH: (COLLATERALSPELL) the caster summons 3 'wind of death' units with 3 movement and 4-10 strength.
similar to FfH Meteor Swarm- Summon 3 Meteors

5. DRAIN LIFE: (COLLATERALSPELL) all enemy units next to the caster instantly loose 3 strength.
(does not affect undead or chaos demons)
similar to FfH Wither- Negative healing promotion.

6. DOOM AND DARKNESS!: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster targets one enemy within 2 squares of himself. the target is shouded in a black cloud of despair.
fro the duration of the turn, the targert will suffer a -3 penalty to any leadership tests (including break tests.) at the start of it's next turn, the targt must pass a leadership test (at -3) otherwise it remains affeted for the duration of that turn also. this continues until the required leadership test is passed. (does not affect undead, chaos demons, or unbreakable unitsm or unit immune to psychology)

Wood Elves Lore of Athel Loren:

Woodelven Shamaness—can select 2 spells from the Lore of Athel Loren

Wood Elven Prophetess-- can select 3 spells from the Lore of Athel Loren and 1 other spell from the Lore of Life or Lore of Beasts

Spellsinger-- can select 4 spells from the Lore of Athel Loren and 2 other spells from Lore of Life or Lore of Beasts

Spellweaver-- can select 5 spells from the Lore of Athel Loren and 3 other spells from Lore of Life or Lore of Beasts


1. TREE SINGING: (ATTACKSPELL)
The mage encourages the spirits of Athel Loren to make the forests shift and begin moving. The spell must be cast on a forest square, and can do 1 of 3 things:
-The forest can move one square in any direction
-The forest can be encouraged to grow, making it spread out onto other squares, and while the mage is casting this spell, the forest has a 20% chance of creation a new forest on a neighboring square.
-If there is an enemy in the forest, the branches and roots whip the enemy dealing 3 damage to the top unit.

2. FURY OF THE FOREST: (COLLATERALSPELL)
Twisted branches and thorns burst into spontaneous growth, attacking the enemies of Athel Loren. This spell may be targeted at one stack of enemy units inside a forest. Each unit in that stack is dealt 4 - 5 damage, with forest defensive bonuses being removed..

3. THE HIDDEN PATH: (SELF / HELPSPELL)
Using this spell, the caster moves as ingle friendly unit out of the corporeal world and beyond the reach of mortals. This spell may be targeted at the caster herself, or another friendly unit in her stack. The target ignores all movement costs on all terrains, can cross-impassable terrain, cannot attack, or be attacked.

4. THE TWILIGHT HOST: (SELF / HELPSPELL)
The mage weaves a powerful illusion, and ghostly gray shapes appear at the side of the wood elves. This spell may be targeted at the caster herself, or another friendly unit in her stack. The target causes fear for 1 turn. If the target already caused fear, then they now cause terror.
Does not stack

5. ARIEL’S BLESSING: (SELF / HELPSPELL)
The caster calls upon the healing powers of Ariel, undoing even the most grievous injuries, and restoring life to those who have fallen. The target gains the regeneration promotion (same as the FfH regeneration spell) permanently.

6. THE CALL OF THE HUNT: (HELPSPELL)
The spirit of Kurnous fills the target of the spell, infusing them with a part of his savagery, anger and power. This spell must target one friendly unit withing one square of the caster. The target gains +20% strength for one turn, and immediately charges 3 squares toward the nearest enemy. Any enemies charged like this, must take a panic test. If no enemies are present, the target only moves forward 3 squares.



High Elves High Magic List:

Highelven Shamaness—can select 3 spells from the High Magic list

High Elven Hedge-Wizard-- can select 4 spells from the High Magic list and 1 other spell from any one of the 8 winds of magic.

High Elven Wizard-- can select 5 spells from the High Magic list and 2 other spells from any one of the 8 winds of magic.

High Elven Sorcerer-- can select 6 spells from the High Magic list and 3 other spells from any one of the 8 winds of magic.


1. WALK BETWEEN WORLDS: (SELFSPELL)
As the mage intones this ancient incantation he beings to fade from view, becoming as insubstantial as a ghost!
This only affects the caster, and only if he is on foot. The caster becomes ethereal. He can only be hit by magical weapons and can move through obstacles and through impassable or difficult terrain as if it was open ground. The caster is affected by spells as normal, and may cast spells himself and fight as normal. Lasts until the start of the caster’s next turn.

2. DRAIN MAGIC: (ATTACKSPELL)
The spell may be cast on a single enemy Wizard within 2 squares of the caster and may be cast into close combat. If successful, the victim’s cannot cast a spell next turn. (the caster cannot cast a spell next turn either)


3. CURSE OF ARROW ATTRACTION: (ATTACKSPELL)
The air around the victims shimmers with magical energy as it warps and twists.
This may be cast on an enemy unit within 2 squares of the caster. Any ranged attacks directed at the unit in the following turn will not miss that turn.


4. VAUL’S UNMAKING: (ATTACKSPELL)
May be cast on an enemy unit within 2 squares of the caster. If successfully cast, the owner of the unit must reveal to the caster all the magic items in the unit.
The caster then chooses one of them to be nullified for the rest of the game. The spell itself does not remain in play, but the effect lasts for the remainder of the game. Vaul’s Unmaking can drain the magic from Dwarf rune items.
Note that all the runes on an individual item will be drained by the spell, not just one. If the unit has no magic items then the spell has no effect.


5. FORTUNE IS FICKLE: (ATTACKSPELL)
This may be cast on an enemy Wizard within 2 squares of the caster. There is a 10% chance that the next spell that the target casts will be a Miscast. In addition, the target looses magic resistance for the duration of the spell. The spell lasts until it is dispelled, the Mage chooses to end it (which he can do at any time), attempts to cast another spell, or is slain.


6. FLAMES OF THE PHOENIX: (ATTACKSPELL)
This may be cast on an enemy stack within 2 squares. Each unit, including characters and unit champions, takes 3 damage immediately. If the spell is still in play at the start of the caster’s next Magic phase, each model in the unit takes 4 damage. If still in play at the start of the caster’s following Magic phase, each model takes 5 damage, and so on, with the damage increasing by 1 each turn it remains in play. The spell lasts until dispelled, the Mage chooses to end it (which he can do at any time), attempts to cast another spell or is slain.


7. FURY OF KHAINE: (ATTCKSPELL)
Calling on the dread might of Khaine, the mage launches a searing bolt of brilliant white energy at his enemies.
The Fury of Khaine is an instant spell with a range of up to 2 squares If successfully cast, it strikes its target reducing the target wounds by 4-10 permanently.
The caster cannot cast a spell next turn.

OTHER MAGIC BASED ABILITIES

WOODELVES

Because the woodelves dont have any bombardment units, i came up with a woodelf only spell that does the same a bombard:

Strangling vines
the spellsinger could engineer a small package of ivy and briar seeds which they trow at the walls and other fortifications. they then cast 'spells' which encorages these seed to sprout and grow rapidly, and as they grow, they weedle into cracks in the mortar and crumble the walls, forcing loose bricks out and eventually bringing the walls down. these vines also act as climbing frames which the other invading wood elves can climb up and attack the defenders.

I'll risk a post now. :)

I see your 8 spheres of magic. Are you guys planning on making them traits for specific leaders? Or an all-encompassing Magic trait? UNITAI_MAGIC? That will make balancing the leaders easier since we can have them focus on magic users and the such. So many choices!

The 8 colleges of magic represent mainly the human magics centered on the Empire. Woodelfs, Orcs, Chaos etc. all have their own kind of magic. Though there are some who can use the 8 as well if I remember correctly like Highelves i.e.
However how to put in the game still has to be talked a lot about(referring to design). Good to see this thread started. I can contribute some undead, chaos and orcstuff in the future for these I got the tabletopgamecards at home.
Also we should discuss magic items. Since they're a part of the design as well.

Here's a link about spells(ignore psychology) that were planned:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4104456&postcount=656

Exactly my point ploe:) im going to put up my opinion on how the 8 colleges could be represented in civ soon (this weekend maybe)

I was thinking that maybe the spellcasters in civ could be modled similarly to the actual wizards in WH tabletop games ie:

the first level spellcaster in civ (here on just 'spellcasters') can have a choice of 1 sphere of magic from the 8, he is then delt one random spell from that list. for example, an empire level one wizard chooses the fire sphere. he is then given a random spell, for example 'fiery blast'

the 2nd level mage is then delt another random spell in adition to his first. so he now has 2 spells from the fire list: the spells 'fiery blast' and, for example, 'conflagration of doom'

the 4th level mage is then delt another random spell in adition to his first and second. so he now has 3 spells from the fire list: the spells 'fiery blast', 'conflagration of doom' and, for example, fire ball.

the 8th level mage can then choose another spell from the same sphere, or one other spell from another list. so he could have the 3 fire spells and one metal spell, or 4 fire spells for example.

not too sure if that would be possible, or even be any good, but thats my 2c for today;)

That's possible in many ways.

1. Each level is a different unit, which would be easy

2. Each level is an actual experience level, which would be difficult

3. Each level is an upgraded book or something which would be moderate.

The thing is that with option 2 then you can have other mages with special ablities. While 1 makes it so that we can't. 3 isn't really hard but not easy.
Also one thing, I think every level they should get a spell and on level 6 they can choose another sphere. Then you can have really strong mages with tons of spells

Yeh, that would be cool, but in the tabletop game the strongest mages only know 4 spells at the most. not sure if ploe wants to stick as close to the actual game or not. if not i propose a magic system like in FfH (if thats ok with Kael)

NOTE: i added more detail on the fire sphere of spells in the second post.

hm, I don´t know anything about the magic system in FfH (actually only tried the first version two times) or about programming, but anyway:

I would like the mages to get better by the time, like other Units also do (that´s one of the main aspects of cIV - the prommotions and experience).
So I think It would be good If we could do something with the promotions, let´s say they can choose one spell as a promotion for every lvl they gain (but if they get one spell for every lvl, they wouldn´t get any combat promotions - maybe thats a good thing, that way they would have to be accompanied by fighting units). Or you can decide to give your mage a battlepromotion instead.

You could also let the mages be able to carry one "spellbook" for every lvl of experience (as a promotion instead of the normal ones?), but I think I didn´t understand this whole concept of spellbooks - where do you get those from? Do you have to produce them like units (same goes for magic items - that would redefine the function of the magic forge)

When I´m at it if you have to produce the Magic Items, then we could have different buildings as prerequesits to build different items (herbalist for potions, magic forge, rune forge, alchemists laboratory, Magic Jewelry etc. etc.)

And if the Spellbooks have to be build we could have the 8 Colleges as wonders and the one who builds a college can produce spellbooks of that wind in his cities?

But before we get into the details we should decide in which direction we will go first (but keep your eyes on the details - maybe they will decide the direction)

We could have buildings generating spellbooks after some rounds. Something like:

Library or temple: every 100 rounds

University or Cathedral: every 50 rounds

Magic colleages and similar wonders: every 25 rounds

For how magic exactly will work we'll have to wait for Olleus to provide us a base to work on. I think it's better to restrict idea posting here to just design not involving much python until we have that.

We could have buildings generating spellbooks after some rounds. Something like:

Library or temple: every 100 rounds

University or Cathedral: every 50 rounds

Magic colleages and similar wonders: every 25 rounds

And when it gets produced you can choose the spell it has written into it?

And when it gets produced you can choose the spell it has written into it?
That could maybe be related to the type of building and the civ. Which promotion they can choose.
Btw:
Warhammer has three levels for spells. Exactly the number we need to relate them to the buildings. The numbers above I'd suggest for spells level 1.
Level two spells would be only generated by at least level 2 buildings but would need 100 turns in level two buildings like level1 spell in level1 building etc.

I think i remmember: you could choose one lvl two or two lvl one, for example. Am I right? (man, that´s about 10-12 years in the past!)

I think i remmember: you could choose one lvl two or two lvl one, for example. Am I right? (man, that´s about 10-12 years in the past!)
exactly I think we can make it according to WH-rules quite easily.

Im lost:( not sure what your trying to say, sorry.

PS im adding the light spells, beast spells and heaven spells to the 2nd post now

Im lost:( not sure what your trying to say, sorry.

PS im adding the light spells, beast spells and heaven spells to the 2nd post now
Don't worry just continue what you're doing. About the implemation Olleus will have to worry about:D

OK:D :crazyeye:

shadow magic added
Adding Life magic now

Please, could someone give feedback on the spells.
Are they too powerfull, not powerful enough, not varied enough?

They are pretty varied and good ideas so far.;) about the strength pm Olleus. Currently he knows these things best. The final stats we can only find out by playtesting and balancing though and for this we need the basic spellsystem first for the least.

ta, i will do that.

startedthinking about race specific spells, see 3rd post.

I don't use magic often, but these look good so far P_L. Anything that makes my Woodelven army better has to be good. :D

Lol, WOODELVES FOREVER! :D

added the Lore of Death to the 2nd post
woking on:
The Lore of Athel Loren
The Prayers of Sigmar
The Big Waaagh
The Little Waaagh

Maybe you should cut back on the number of spells. Remember, with the way that magic is implemented, each spell requires a unique book unit which will hold it. Maybe there should only be 1 copy of each book, to stop magic from over taking everything.

Another good idea would be searching FFH for spells that resemble similar effects of WH spells. We could borrough some coding there.

I think we should have at least three spells for every kind of magic type with WH origin. But for now it would suffice to get it to work at all!

But...But...But...

there HAS to be 6 spells per sphere. there just has to be. I dont want to play a game with a pathetic range of spells. 3 spells, not even 4 spells cut it for me, im sorry.
(pluss there are that many spells in the table top game;)

PS. you havent seen the orcs spell list yet, they gor 12;)

Keep in mind everything will need coding AND graphical representation.
For the second reason I recommend taking out anything that gives weapons like flaming swords and the like. We can design some heros who have this but I definitly don't woant to make this for every possible unit available!
Any spells that conjure other units like elementals or fireballs no problem just nothing that will change the appearance of a unit itself for now please.
Spells that affect psychology will be fine but for this we need the psychology first obviously.

I have changed the spells slightly from the original list to make them more warhammer like. For example, the fireball spell does not summon a fireball, but causes 20% damage to an enemy unit within 3 squares of the caster. Fiery blast does the same thing but with an additional 10% collateral damage to everything in that stack.

The question is, is it possible to have a graphical effect appearing on a certain plot? A bit like the bombardment explosion, but unique to each spell.

I think so but don't know for sure:(
Could you ask Kael or Chalid about that? They will know it for certain and maybe help with that. I'm not really good with sfx yet. I can edit effects to a limited range with the nif viewer but effects have to be called with python and registered in xml and about that I don't know much. I fear some of this could require hexediting also and I certainly can't do that.

Spell effects (images) wont be too hard. just see if you can 'borrow' the images used for casting spells in FfH and perhaps edit them to make more.
that means that about 3/4 of the spells images are sorted, because most are instants.
No spells actually "change the appearance of a unit itself". whaich one did you think did that? i may be wrong, but none change what a unit looks like.

Sure coading will take a long time. but all good things come with time. we cannot rush this mod by taking out any of the things that would enhance it.
the spell system will have to take a long time to implement properly into the game, just keep that in mind;)

I didn't mean images I mean sfx in game. That's more complicated. And a unit gaining a firesword should show it has one or not?(I mean in it's hand) so that's restricted to a hero to whom it fits or maybe I give it to Combat wizards of the bright college but that's it. I won't nifedit myself to death with this. Anyway we MUST reduce the amount of spells for now to get a reasonable shedule or we get nothing done. It may be that almost anything is possible but is it allways worth the effort? Our time is limited after all and we should put it to good use. And imo there's allways something more important to be done than fireswords for everyone.

are you only talking about "firesword"? because i like your idea of giving wizards of the bright college a firesword promotion and a firesword in their hand. it would be uber cool.

and by "sfx" do you mean Sound Effects, or screen effects or what?
perhaps just implement in the first spell of each sphere in one patch, get
them all sorted. than add in the second spell of each sphere, get that one sorted. then do the third... untill they are all done. it will take a long time, sure but we DO have time. look at FfH, how long have they been opperating? AGES! and look where they are. time is not against us here.

i dont want a mod that was rushed and isnt good. i would rather have a mod that has been well thought out and planned for over a big period of time. time = money (but in this case money is actually mod;))

I mean special effects. But really I mean it. a spell that gives a firesword to a unit is crap, really. We need another model for any unit that could be affected by that. It's really not worth the effort. Kael I suppose wouldn't do it believe me and I won't either. And a spell or promotion that would just affect one or two units isn't worth the coding either. That's not rushing the mod that's just pragmatism.

yes, i know i just agreed with you on the firesword thing:lol: i will come up with another spell for it's place that will be simpler to code, (i hope) unless you want me to remove a spell from each sphere (which i will hate doing but will do if you insist)
but first we need to have a vote on what spells to keep, what spells to change and what spells to ditch. this is a democratic system after all.

sigh, Well you could set up a poll for that but that won't realize anything. Unless you do the nifedits the sword of Rhuin wont be in as a spell. I will give the bright wizard a flaming sword maybe(or a wizardlord maybe). Steed of shadows same thing. You can have it as simple haste spell that's already coded in FFH. I'm really in doubt about the Rain Lord but well you never know if someone's going to make raining clouds for civ.
About the rest I'd leave the decisions to our programmers what they think can be translated into gamemechanics AND makes sense in civgameplay.

Maybe you could check all FFH spelleffects and set up a list of those which resemble spells in your list. That would be a step towards realization indeed. Since it would be ineffective trying to create effects which are already there and we have Kaels permission to use whatever we want from FFH. Would that be ok with you?

Im apologise ploe, i dont want to be so difficult:blush:

I understand where you are going with this now, and will take a look at the spell list of FfH.

EDIT Oops, double post (always wondered how that happened)

Edited the 8 Winds of magic to have some spells with comparisons to FfH spells to help with programming.

Thx that will help. Continue to do so if you find more there! The more useful stuff we can get from there the better and the sooner we can start on psychology(not that magic will ever come to an end). Heh and you're lucky Olleus already made the flameswordscript. So I think we'll have to find a way to put it to use;)

Yay:D flameswordscript! thank you Olleus!

Try to make the spells a little more generic, so the AI will be able to use it better. Ultimately I would like all spells to fall in a few categories like ATTACKSPELL, COLLATERALSPELL, SELFSPELL (improves some of the casters stats), HELPSPELL (does the same but to a nearby unit).

Having one spell that removes firsstrikes, and another that reduces combat strenght will not work, as they will both go under the ATTACKSPELL category and will both be treated identicaly by the AI.

im confused, why will they not work?

i will go through the list and alter them, saying if they are an ATTACKSPELL, COLLATERALSPELL, SELFSPELL or HELPSPELL.

edit LIST UPDATED

They will work, but the AI will have trouble using them intelligently. The way I am programming the AI it will treat all ATTACKSPELLs in exactly the same way and will use them in exactly the same way, and the same for COLLATERALDAMMAGESPELLs, SELFSPELLs and HELPSPELLs. If I had to code a new AI for each spell it would take forever, so by grouping them, we can get a half decent AI without a ridiculus amount of work.

i get ya now. good idea. is it possible to have some spells (the more wierd ones like Cassandoras Comet and Rain lord, to have a SPECIALSPELLS group, which will let the AI know those spells are different to the others?
and do you have any major dislikes with the current spell list? are any way too odd? would any be way too difficult to programe? if so let us know and i will try to generalise them.

transmutation of lead: amost of what ti does is useless against a large amount of units

law of gold: lets wait for us to have magic items first ;)

ADLOS THE EAGLES CRY + KINOS THE BEAST COWERS: as they only work against cavalry.

THE RAIN LORD: as it only works against ranged units.

The rest should work if we twist them enough so that they fit civ4 rules and not warhammer rules.

we couldchange transmutation of lead to turning the units clote to lead, and only make them immobile (like FfH Entangle?)

yeh i dont like the law of gold, (we could change ti to the FfH Transmutation spell?)

"ADLOS THE EAGLES CRY + KINOS THE BEAST COWERS: as they only work against cavalry.THE RAIN LORD: as it only works against ranged units."

is there not a way to make spells only work on certain types of units?? there are also spells that work only on spell casters also, should those be changed?

Those spells would work, but telling the AI to use those spells only against cavalry/ranged units would involve a lot of work, so I will miss them out for the moment and do them later.

ok, sounds fair:)
would it be possible to change one of them to a spell which gives the caster the "trap animal" promotion from FfH? that would be cool i think.
and perhaps the summon tiger as a space holder.

Added Lore of Athel Loren in post 3

how about having a new city specialist called wizard?

It could become available with magic related buildings and give +1 gold and +5 gpp.

Hm shouldn't a wizard just replace the scientist?

Edit: o no that'll better be a sage since dwarfs won't work with wizards.
Not sure if we need another specialist in wizardry.

I don't see how science and magic overlap; you could say that magic and religion overlap, but priests of sigmar don't dabble in magic and most of the colleges of magic have no religious influence.
Anyway, this is the chance for us to create a specilist which doesn't follow the '3 commerce 3GPP' system created by firaxis and make something a little unique.

Well colleges in WH-World seem to be magical if they aren't engineersguilds that is. Don't forget that's no modern world where science is a specialized and seperated subsystem in society. We can allways alter the existing GPs effects, no problem with that. But that's offtopic here. You can start a new thread for it if you like.

I agree with Olleu here. i vote scientists become sages and a new specialist cammed Mage/wizard/spellcasteer

I have changed the spells slightly from the original list to make them more warhammer like. For example, the fireball spell does not summon a fireball, but causes 20% damage to an enemy unit within 3 squares of the caster. Fiery blast does the same thing but with an additional 10% collateral damage to everything in that stack.

The question is, is it possible to have a graphical effect appearing on a certain plot? A bit like the bombardment explosion, but unique to each spell.

Yes, I use the following where pPlot is the plot you want the effect to take place in:


point = pPlot.getPoint()
CyEngine().triggerEffect(gc.getInfoTypeForString(' EFFECT_ARTILLERY_SHELL_EXPLODE'),point)
CyAudioGame().Play3DSound("AS3D_UN_GRENADE_EXPLODE",point.x,point.y,point.z)


EFFECT_ARTILLERY_SHELL_EXPLODE can be any effect in the effect file and AS3D_UN_GRENADE_EXPLODE is whatever sound effect you want to go with it.

Once again Kael, you have showed me the way. Thanks, saved me a lot of time rumaging through endless piles of code.

Right, this is what I have done (read 'am still doing')


1. FIRE BALL: summons a fire ball unit with 3 movement and a random strength between 4 and 10.Causes 15-30% damage to a unit within the range of the caster

2. FLAMING SWORD OF RHUIN: (SELFSPELL) spell is cast on the the caster himself.
A magical flaming blade appears in the casters hand and counts as Magic and fire damage. The Wizard recieves the blitz promotion as long as this spell is in play. The caster also gets +2 strength.
similar to FfH Enchanted Blade- Grants the Enchanted Blade promotion to Melee units in the tile. It also removes the Rusted effect from any unit in the tile.The caster gains the promotion 'Flaming Sword', which gives +25% strenght and blitz. Remains until the caster casts another spell.


3. FIERY BLAST: (COLLATERALSPELL) an up graded version of Fireball, being more powerful and harder to cast. Summons a Fiery blast unit with 3 movements and 4 -16 strength.causes 10-40% damage to an enemy unit within range of the caster, and causes 10% damage to all other units in the same stack.

4. BURNING HEAD: (COLLATERALSPELL) a phantasmic Flaming Head is conjored by the caster shooting out in front of the caster in a striaght line, laughing insanely as it burns a trial of destruction in its path.
Everything in the 2 tiles directly in front of the caster is delt 4 instant damage, all improvements are destroyed, and forest fires are started.
A line is drawn between the caster and a tile within range. All units in the line take 10-25% damage.

5. CONFLAGRATION OF DOOM: (COLLATERALSPELL) can be cast on any unit in the line of sight of the caster. The target and all of his stack instantly burst into flames and take an instant 4 - 10 damage each. The fire has a 25% chance of going out each turn releasing the unit from the spells effect. Each consecutive turn that a unit is on fire, it recieves an instant 2 damage.
The caster cannot cast again untill the fire is out, because of the strain taken to hold it there.
similar to FfH Pillar of Fire- Does damage to all units in a stack.
All units in the stack suffer from 10-35% damage. As well as that they are all fire and will take another 0-10% damage while they are still on fire, which has a 50% chance of going out every turn.

6. WALL OF FIRE: (ATTACKSPELL) can be cast on any unit within 3 squares of the caster. The unit is surrounded by searing flames that rise 10 feet into the air, and each unit in the stack recieves an instant 1 damage. This spell remains in play untill it is dispelled or the caster casts another spell. no further damage is delt to the unit unless it attempts to cross through the Wall, i which case, all units recieve a further 4 hits.
The caster cannot cast another spell next turn.
If cast on an empty square, a 'Wall of fire' unit appears. It can not move but has strength 15 and has a 50% chance of dissapearing every turn. If it is cast on a tile occupied by enemy troops, they all suffer 0-20% damage, and the wall of fire unit appears on an empty tile on the casters side of the original tile





1. RULE OF BURNING IRON: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster chooses any unit within 2 squares, (only one unit is affected which is chosen by the caster), and that unit suffers 3-6 damage. this counts as a fire attack and therefore does double damage sgainst flamable units.
Causes 15-30% damage to a unit within the range of the caster

2. COMMANDMENT OF BRASS: (ATTACKSPELL) the caster chooses one war machine or chariot type unit within his line of sight. the target unit is imobalized until the spell ends.
The first SIEGE or MOUNTED unit in the selected stack looses all movement for the next turn

3. TRANSMUTATION OF LEAD: (ATTACKSPELL.) this spell can be cast on an enemy unit within sight of the caster. all of the targets armour and weapons ar transmuted into lead for one turn. the affected unit loses all first strikes, the blitz promotion, and cannot move untill the spell is ended.
The unit looses all first strikes and suffers from -25% strenght for the next turn.

4. DISTILLATION OF MOLTEN SILVER: (COLLATERALSPELL) the mage sends a squall of molten silver to hit any unit within the caster's line of sight. The target gets 4 - 16 damage delt to them instantly. Counts as a fire attack and therefore causes double damage against flamable targets.
Causes 30-60% damage to the targeted unit

5. LAW OF GOLD: (ATTACKSPELL.) there is a 60% chance of the item not working for the next 2 turns, and a 40% chance of the item being 'stolen' and sold by the caster, creating a random ammount of gold for his civ, between 250-1000
Not included as there are no magic items (yet)

6. BANE OF FORGED STEEL: (ATTACKSPELL) can only be cast on units in Line of sight of the caster. the targest weapons begin to crumble and rust away, and the units strength is halved for the remainder of the battle. (can stack)
Similar to FfH Rust- Melee units get a negative promotion that lasts until they return to a barracks, metal based units suffer damage.
All units in the stack have -40% strenght. Has a 50% chance every turn of regaining full strenght.



Note that whenever I say 'a unit' I mean 'The unit on top of the selected stack'.

On a different note, how will we represent dissplelling? You could say that all units that suffer from a 'remain in play' condition are automaticaly cured if they come in contact with a friendly wizard, but I'm sure thers so much more we could do.

[/spoiler]

Great I like it!:thumbsup:

would it be possible to implement the function from the Starcraft mod, where you can choose which unit to attack from a stack for spells that affect one unit in a stack, for example the spell "COMMANDMENT OF BRASS"?

this would be a nice feature for spells, but it´s not necessarily needed and can surely be delayed, if it´s even possible.

Otherwise I like all of the spells very much and there´s nothing to complain about them (even if you´re not willing to implement the target thing) , keep on the good work.

Brilliant work:D thats perfect.

For the Dispelling, on tabletop, wizards produce 'dispell dice' which are rolled, when the person who is going to cast the spell rolls. if the dispell number is bigger than the cast number, then the spell is dispelled. Wizards can also buy Dispell Scrolls which are a one use only item which dispells a spell instantly.
Perhaps we can make spells cast in the line of sight of ememy wizards have a 5% chance of being dispelled to represent this.?

Very cool so far Olleus.

Brilliant work:D thats perfect.

For the Dispelling, on tabletop, wizards produce 'dispell dice' which are rolled, when the person who is going to cast the spell rolls. if the dispell number is bigger than the cast number, then the spell is dispelled. Wizards can also buy Dispell Scrolls which are a one use only item which dispells a spell instantly.
Perhaps we can make spells cast in the line of sight of ememy wizards have a 5% chance of being dispelled to represent this.?
5% would be good for shaman but rise it for higher level wizards.
steps could be
15%
25%
50%
or even better a script that compares wizard levels.
Equal level
25%
higher level
40%
60%
80%

No, those %s are WAY too high, have them all below 25%, because then all we need to do is place a wizard in every city to have 50% immunity to magic. perhaps give wizards a promotion called Dispell Aprenticeship, Dispell Expert and Dispell Mastery (or somthing like that which can increase the % by 5 or something, but only up to 50% at the very most. Maybe a level 7 High elf Archmage with Dispell Aprenticeship, Dispell Expert and Dispell Mastery could have aDispell chance of 50%.

Why shouldn't a Level 4 Scorcerer dispel a Level 1 Shaman with a very high chance?

I like the idea of those extra "Dispell" promotions for Mages.

And Sorcerers should have a higher chance of dispelling shamans regardless of their lvl, but don´t make the base dispell ability to high, that would make Mages in general too weak, because they would get dispelled a most of the time I think a Sorcerer (highest Mage Unit) should have atround 40%-50% chance of dispelling a Shaman (weakest Mage Unit). Shaman vs. Shaman (same lvl Units) should have 20% chance of dispeeling each other IMO.

Exactly Duke. Thats what i was trying to say. ;)

So, any idea on how this could be implemented. Should a wizard only get the chance to dispell something once? Should it try to dispell things cast in sourrounding tiles?

I think Mages should be able to dispel spells cast on the plot where they areand the adjacent plots. Like Supportfire every Mage should have one dispell point for each round (beginning on the start of your turn and ending on the start of your next turn).

Should the dispell chances be increased then, as you can only dispell once per turn? And should the 'dispell point' only be used in a sucsessfull dispell or at every attempt.

I think per attempt. And be increased by what, in general? I wouldn´t like it that way, because I think spells should be cast succesful most of the time, would be frustrating if your spells get dispelled all of the time.

Lemme just ask, 'cuz I think I'm a bit confused. When you say that a wizard dispells a Shaman, do you mean that the Wizard has a chance to negate a spell casted by a Shaman, or the wizard has a chance to kill the shaman (but not kill, "dispell" the shaman)?

He has a chance to negate the spell another Magic-User just casted.

He has a chance to negate the spell another Magic-User just casted.

Ah. Ok. I thought you were talking about 80% chances to kill a Lvl1 Shaman every turn using "Dispel" :lol:

In any case, I agree that the chance to dispel should be pretty low, but maybe one could also increase it's chances to dispel by entering a Defensive Casting mode. Perhaps it could work like Fortify where you can increase 5% per turn you are in the Defensive Casting mode to a max?

Of course, this might promote more turtling than you probably want.

I think extra promotions for Magic Units would be better, something like PL suggested. Dispel (is this written with 1 or 2 L´s?) 1-3 which all give an extra +5% chance to dispel.

And what about implementing this thing from starcraft where you can choose your target on the square? although I don´t like it for normal combat (because it would give an advantade to the attacker and I´d like the advantage to be on the side of the Defender), this would be really good for Spells IMO.

And what about implementing this thing from starcraft where you can choose your target on the square? although I don´t like it for normal combat (because it would give an advantade to the attacker and I´d like the advantage to be on the side of the Defender), this would be really good for Spells IMO.

Yeah, it's one L. My bad.

The PieMenu (http://gerikspells.pbwiki.com/f/SacrificialOathTargetting.JPG) unit-chooser is just a python CvScreen that I've put together. It's also in GerikSpells. The big disadvantage to it is that:

1.) It's a pain to make and debug.
2.) You don't have all the info of the units on the screen.

Probably a less flashy, but more traditional approach would be a popup, as in the sniper mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125579&d=1146658933), or here. (http://gerikspells.pbwiki.com/f/SacrificialOathPopupTargetting.JPG) These are MUCH easier to create, and all the info is readily available. Less flashy, but gets the job done.

Doesn´t really matter to me how it looks (as long as it is not all crappy), but it would be nice if one could choose the exact target of his spell from the stack he is casting it on.

I will include this soon, but for now I am concentrating on doing the lore of fire and the lore of metal, as well as trying to get the AI to work. I will add it, but I don't quite have the time ATM.

Fine with me, do as you please - as long as you´re going to implement this feature im happy.

Ok then, so far we have decided (IIRC) that all magic users can dispel. but units lower in the tech tree have a lower chance to dispel. ie the Shaman has less chance to dispell that a wizard does.
also, magic uses that are from a higher tech level to another magic user have a greater chance of dispelling the weaker mage. ie shaman and a wizard cast a spell at a wizard. the wizard has a greater chance at dispelling the shaman than the wizard.
Magic users get 3 promotions, Dispel I, II and III, which increases the base dispel % y 5% per promotion.
Magic users can enter a magical fortified mode, where thier dispell chance increases like normal defence, but to a lower maximum.

is that all?

Magic users can enter a magical fortified mode, where thier dispell chance increases like normal defence, but to a lower maximum.

I`m against that part, would make the dispel-probability too high, when 2 or three Mages are fortified in a city (I know that they wouldn´t get the city defense bonus for dispel ;) ).

it wouldnt stack though, only up to a maximum of, say 40-50%. and each individual unit would have to do the mgical fortify for it to affect them.

it wouldnt stack though, only up to a maximum of, say 40-50%. and each individual unit would have to do the mgical fortify for it to affect them.

I kinda agree with Duke on this.

But on the other hand, I'm not sure if I would like playing a game where you always have a chance to dispell. It just seems to me that the user casting an attack spell is strategically disadvantaged simply because the other player just has these units, and as a defensive player besides walking your units around you can't really affect the outcome. I think that there should be a little more strategy involved if you want to actually dispell something. How about this:

Perhaps making it so that the only time you have a chance to dispell is while you're in this sort of defensive casting mode. The defensive casting mode doesn't add bonuses to your chances, but just makes it possible. Perhaps something like (and these numbers are tweakable):


Each unit has a base 10% chance to dispell.
You can get promotions where your base chance of dispell gets raised 5%.
You have a bonus 5% chance to dispell for each level higher than the caster you are (no penalties).
If you gain enough dispell promotions, you might be able to gain a promotion that is higher levels where you have chances to dispell without having to enter defensive casting mode, although you might get some penalty for doing it.


So, say a unit who's gained four dispell promotions and has a 30% base chance to dispell while in defensive casting mode. If it is 2 levels higher than an enemy unit, this gives it a 40% chance.

When this unit attains the promotion gaining a perpetual chance to dispel, then they can be walking around without using defensive casting mode and still hold a 20% chance to dispel.

Sound more than a compromise to me. I like it. Exspecially if we can tweak it after playtest the same way as your support fire:)

That´s just perfect Gerikes, I love this idea of yours, really adds some stragtegy.

And the percentages sound fine to me, The "Uber-Dispel" promotion is also very interesting (we need some promotions just for magicusers only)

Love the compromise Gerikes:thumbsup: it sounds awsome.

I'm all for that idea!
Also, we should add buildings to cities that increase the dispell chance like a wizards tower or something like that.

I'm all for that idea!
Also, we should add buildings to cities that increase the dispell chance like a wizards tower or something like that.

That sounds good! That would probably lead to a good wonder that builds a wizard tower in every city. Or even a wonder that gives a chance to dispell % on all of the player's plots.

Now, here's my question. Do these chances stack, or do you just run through each unit? So, if two units are in defensive casting mode and the area that their dispel covers both include a certain plot, would a spell cast on that plot's chance to dispel be the sum of the two, or would it just check each unit individually for whether they successfully dispel?

I say that every unit tries to dispell it one after each other. Its the same system used for intercepting aircraft so I see no reason to invent something new.

I support that. No stack. This could easily get misused by players trying to make cities immune to magic. And reusing working systems for other purposes seems also better to me where it's possible- less to worry about.

i vote no stack. im with Olleus and Ploe;)

yeah, definitely. No stack for me!

How about adding a new unit 'Dispell scrolls'. It can be loaded by wizards just like any other magic book, but gives it the ability to automaticaly dispell the first spell cast on the wizard. The scroll then dies. Also, dispell scrolls should be hidden to all other players (might be hard to do).

Cool idea, this would be the first item for the mod!

i was wnodering how dispel scrolls could be implemented, sound good:thumbsup:

*grumble*

D'oh, I've just given myself more work ;)

How about adding a new unit 'Dispell scrolls'. It can be loaded by wizards just like any other magic book, but gives it the ability to automaticaly dispell the first spell cast on the wizard. The scroll then dies. Also, dispell scrolls should be hidden to all other players (might be hard to do).
Yeah good idea. And we already got the gfx for it in the artfolders;)

@ Olleus: when do you think you will be ready for the next lot of spell lists?

Give me a week to finish changing everything to warlords.

Ok, give us a PM, or just post here, when youre ready:) no rush though.

Ill read this thread later... :p Im interested how we are going to handle this....

one suggestion: random number generated 'Winds of Magic'

a number that is either noted somewhere in the minimap area or as a popup(when a warpstorm is happening, 1% chance)
The random wind# can be called by spell effects for strenghth and other power related effects.

Otherwise a warpstorm is an event-trigger, that causes chaos incursions/ barbarian rampages, makes magic use extremely dangerous/ enables some very powerfull magics/ etc.

edit: read. I Like the dispelling ideas, I was wondering how that would be done...
Just 2cc: Only 1 dispel per turn allowed (upgradable by magic-buildings etc). how about a choice whenever a magical unit has a succesfull 'intercept', 'popup': dispell this spell or save the dispell for later.
This would introduce more strategy: do you cancel that fireball or save your one 'dispell point' for a possible meteorstorm on your capital?
(Minimum would be 1 dispell attempt/turn, racial ability for dwarf high base dispell points, but no magical buildings.)

How are we going to do necromantic spells?
eg pro-undead and anti-undead spells are both necromantic...but there is a limit of 6 spells. :(
(You think the current spells list is long? You should take a look in the 2nd edition rulebook! ;) )

Gonna do a skaven magic list. :P

1:
For translation purposes:
ranges:
touch: only if heros/casters will be able to join a unit, otherwise stack.
<6" -same tile/stack as caster.
6"-17" -Adjacent tile or same tile/stack as caster.
18"-29" -two tiles range.
30"-41" -tree tiles range.
etc

2:
What about SUMMON_SPELL?

unittype/name: summonee
req. tile/resource type: TILETYPE_RESOURCE (eg forest_NONE for any forrested tile or ANY_bones for a boneyard)
range: 0/1/2 etc
Will automatically target neares appropriate tile in range if none is selected by clicking. (for AI)
Creates a unit X there.

(examples of summon spells: Quicken Oni-treeman or Animate dead.)

-further musings on summoning:
Will/can summoned units be disbanded when caster is slain?
Caster needs to concentrate on maintaining the spell, so these spells can be cast only once per spell_level of the wizard.
(I am assuming that a wizard of spelllevel_4 can write 4 summon_spells in his book and thus theoretically in 4 consequtive turns at one spell per turn can cast 4 summon spells. That wizard can then cast no more spells as all are 'active'.)
Or am I wrong here in interpretting the spells-mechanism?
Is the spell just 'read' and is thus only one copy needed in the spellbook to use it four times?

Normally a caster could summon unlimited creatures, magic points and misspells permitting.
However I fear this would unbalance things far too much.
Unless we add a 'magical upkeep' cost to permanent spells.


3:
that reminds me..
How is our magical economy model coming along?
Are there any ideas?


Civ base level (X points/turn)
Leader multiplier (arcane: x3, industrial: x1/2)
casters/unit: +2 points x level
special: some hero-casters and arcane items may add extra points/turn.
city specialists (with appropriate building req):
alchemist-science and some gold
scryer: science and a magic point

buildings/civics: multipliers and boni as described per building.

Spells cost X MP to cast (with perhaps succes factor= casterlevel/(2x spelllevel). spells that remain in play for more than one turn, might cost a calculated value from casting cost OR a variable that needs to be in the spell description.

3b:
Will we be keeping track of which wizard cast a spell?
We might as well pool all spell-upkeep/controll. Spells will be maintained even after its caster is destroyed. But it greatly simplifies the system.

4:
magical foci as resources?
Like the warpstone resource, but relevant to the various difracted colours of magic.

Havinfg such a site in your borders would give you 1 MP/turn. and having researched the appropriate school of magic,
you gain 3MP.

After inventing 'magical construction', you will be able to construct a tower/extractor/shrine or whatever fun thing on top to double it's production.
No matter if you have acces to the magics.
Dwarfs will need these sites to smithe Runes of Power.

Edit: NIppoN magic.

Magic of Nippon (Shukenja)

Magic in Cathay if highly ritualised and generally focussed on alchemical and elemental. That is not to say that the other schools don’t exist, just that they are usually fouind as sub-schools of the two most popular. Magical practices in Cathay generally predate those in the west. The largest magical academy in Cathay was founded in Chungcheng over 1500 years ago.

While officially outlawed, Deamonology and Necromancy are widely practiced in Cathay. Much of this is the result of early contact with the Dark Elves and long standing interactions with Chaos, especially Tzeentch (Tien Tsin).

Lore of the Nine Sages
Nine Sages Fire –fire storm/magic missiles (1D6 S3 hits 24”range) (ATTACK)
Celestial Blow -While in combat, deal magical damage equal to magic expended. , no (SELFHELP) will remain active untill used in combat.
Judgement of Tsen Wo –range 12” leadership test: pass=1 firedamage, fail=D6firedamage. (ATTACK)
Moon sacrifice of Chang-Er (ATTACK) lasts one turn. D6:affected unit is 1-2=mesmerised: immobile/strength0/loses first strikes. 2-3=dazzled: strength0,no first strikes. 4-6:spooked: unit flees in random direction, leadership0.
Psychic duel -2D6+magiclevel vs 1D6+ML opponent winner destroys one spell in opponents spellbook. (ATTACK-magicusers only)
Purge Foul enchantment –Disenchant magic Item. Range 12”. Level I Items(<50pts) destroys item. L:evel II Items (51-100pts) Item destroyed 33% chance. Greater Artefacts (level III, 100<) cannot be disenchanted in this offhand way. (ATTACK-magicalItem only)

Lore of the Oni
Oni spells remain in play untill dissolved by the Wu Jen or untill dispelled by an enemy wizard. Unless stated otherwise.
Oni Possession –(SELF)magical save 5+, cause fear. Gains abilities of an Oni… free promotion?. As long as the spell lasts.
Radiant Armour –(SELF) become immune to melee and missile fire.
Quiken Tree Oni –(SUMMONSPELL-forest_ANY), Treeman is created at the occupied tile, if forested. (Range 6”)(adjacent tile must be forest, unit is created at caster’s location.)
Oni Counsillor –units in 12” range rally imediately and have 10leadership. All Oni units gain 1 first strike. Not cumulative.
Summon Oni – Summon an Oni within 6”range.
Oni Mastery – Gain controll over one unit of beasts for one turn. Duration can be expanded by expending more points.

Thats a VERY nice spell list for Nippon. do you think that would work also for Cathay?
where did you find it? did you make them up?
they're very good and seeing as there is so little on Nippon and Cathay out there, it was a pleasant surprise:)

I took it from an Oriental Warhammer armies list. The religion fluff is also from this source.
I assumed it was official, but when looking for the edition number, I found it was unofficial. (written 2004). The author states that he compiled from all known sfluff-sources, even from my favorite 2nd edition WH Armies (brown) book.
It is 'Oriental' so Nippon and Cathay are bundled together. there is some mention of Indhya as the origin of Vimtaoism. (eg Buddism)

I would have thought up a celestial dragon oriented elementalist type of magics list.
Their religion I'd just classify as spirit worhip / ancestor worship / philosophical/lawfull etc.

CREDITS: 'Warhammer armies - The mysterious Orient' by Damien Kennedy, 2004
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dpken/warhammer/
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dpken/warhammer/orient.htm

edit: Maybe wizards can 'study' in cities containing 'magical-academy type improvement' : pay xx gold and magicpoints to raise experiance of wizard by one level (or add magical-promotion).

From the brainstorming thread:
(using v0.1 Warlords WFB)
I find myself ignoring the magic tree, because it is so damn expensive (non-functionallity not considered).
Maybe we could enhance the magic-advancements by allowing great-magicians to be born.
These would function like other greatpersons in tech advances. (a free tech or 750RP advancement in a arcane-tech).
Generation of great magicians is by a civspecific/racialtrait #(arcane)culturepoints further modified by special magical buildings/ResidentGreatMagicians/leadertraits/etc.

An idea worth considdering in relation to the future magic-economy.

I like that idea.

Are we going to have units have certain basic spells (ATTACKSPELL:firespark) automatically on production and make them 'carry specialunit: spellbook (or magicscroll)' for additional (seperately researched) high complexity spells?

bump.

How about every magic sphere researched also has a special 'magical enchantment'
These will mostly be effective on Items.
Enchantmenst on cities and units will be classified as 'standard' magic spells with a duration or permanent.

hmmm, not a bad idea. would require more work though.

maybe:
WInd of fire = items give fire attack / defence
Wind of beasts = animal and munted units fear the unit.
wind of metal = item gives extra strength / first strike?
Wind of life = item allows regeneration?
wind of death = item can do death blow (x% chance of instant kill) or stals life from foe?
Wind of Heavens = Item give extra first strike (symbolising predictions etc) or lighting attacks???
Wind of shadows = Item gives unit hedden nationality or invisibility?
wind of light = item can allow unit to heal other units?

just thinking out loud :p

something like that, only with poetic names...;)

Vampiric blade
Horn of the Hunter

It might be difficult to think up usefull effects of enchantments for all types of MI.

Example:

Fire enchantments apllicable to:
CLASS_MAGICITEM_WEAPON:
Blade of flames, Bow of inferno (deal additional firedamage)
CLASS_MAGICITEM_MISC:
Wand of Flames, Ring of fireball, Banner from Hell (cast fireball)
CLASS_MAGICITEM_ARMOUR:
Cuirass of Burning (unit causes fear, cannot heal)
CLASS_ARCANEITEM_SCROLL:
scroll of 'anyfirespell' (sacrifice: cast spell once for free, is relatively cheap to produce)
CLASS_ARCANEITEM_BOOK:
Spellbook of Bright magics (Enables a mage carrying this to cast the spells contained inside.) (Learning spells from books? maybe if the book is consumed afterwards.)
CLASS_ARCANEITEM_MISC:
Dunno for fire, but only wizards can carry arcane items. Which include Magic enhancers, MPgerenators, powerfull scryingballs, etc


You should look in the new Items thread.
I proposed a system there of upgradable items, however with all the possibilities...it may be impossible.
It might be easier to limit magic items to 'hardcoded' combinations.
Eg every sphereTECH makes possible some specific items.
(fire is a nice example of an enchantment much used in war)
Flaming Scimitar, Longsword of Fire, Bow of Inferno, [deal extra fire damage]
Warbanner of Inferno, Wand of Immolation, [cast fireball]


Magical-based attack types need to be recognised for firedamage to happen. Right now vs UNITCLASS/COMBATCLASS is possible.
I believe Lord O is at the threshold of something great in this field.

PLease remind me.

I cannot recall exactly how we planned to implement magic.

Were we going to use a points system of aliquots of magic power used by each spell?
With these points generated by:
1-Magic winds (variable)
2-mages (fixed / based on proficiency level)
3-magic buildings (fixed & variable)
4-misc.

@AH... i lost exactly what we were going to do with magic along time ago... :P not that i have much use for magic im more of a siege weapon person... mages exist in Masada's army to dispell and get me re-rolls (Lore of Heavens FTW) :P

But from memory it was pretty much like you listed complex... which might beg a rethink for the sake of simplicity

Yes plus events. It was intended to steal some of the FFH armageddoncounter mechanics and change the triggers to our needs.

Kay. ;) here I go... (I haven't thought for one bit aboiut how the AI would react to all this...)


--- Warp counter and MP generation---
each turn accumulate
[counter]
+ Winds_D8 (+ #activespells/10?)
+ any specifically counter promoting events/buildings/spells/etc (Chaos)
- any specifically counter negating events/buildings/spells/etc (Order)

example calculus for available MP per turn for 'a civ':
(unlike gold, magicpower cannot be stored)
+ Winds (D8) * Leadertrait_ARCANE_bool
+ SUM(mages*level)
+ magicbuilding_factor * winds(D8)
+ fixed magic generator building

- magic upkeep buildings/improvements/summoned, bound units/spells

--- Use of MP currency---

each spell cost 1 MP minimum, unless modified by artefacts giving temporary bonus (eg power orb: ArcaneItem, activate; allows magicuser to use one less MP on a next spell for one turn.)

Scrolls: production cost = spellcostMP*2 + 50GP/level. OPnly carryable by mages, free to use.


--- A more complex mage MP generation: ---

Instead of generating 1MP/level, for each mage:
roll D4
1: gain dispell promotion, lasts this turn.
2: gain unstopable power promotion. spells cannot be dispelled.
3: generate 1MP
4: generate 2MP


--- Magic is dangerous theme, but maybe too complex. ---

spell failure:
IF spell dispelled
AND
IF level mage - level spell <= 0
Do: rollD6
1-3 nothing happens (spell fizzles out quietly)
4- Mage loses controll of spell: damage_caster= (100%/level_caster).
5- mage is overcome by a warpsurge, cataclysm: (level_spell*10) damage to all in tile_caster.
6- Mage is attacked by a warp spirit: 100%/caster_level, unit becomes barbarian. (move to unoccupied square if neccesary)


--- This is most likely waaaay to complex: ---
mental battle:

in range?
do:
ask number of MP (default 1)
Chalengerpower = Level_caster + MP * d3
Victimpower = Level_victim + MP * d3
IF: Chalengerpower > Victimpower
do: challenger wins: victim paralysed next turn
IF: Chalengerpower > 2*Victimpower
do: victim is killed
IF: Victimpower > Chalengerpower
do: victim wins, challenger is paralysed for one turn.
IF: Victimpower > 2*Chalengerpower
do: challenger killed
ELSE: draw, both mages lose next turn.
--- Wind colour? ---
After the wind amplitude is determined, maybe a second D8 roll could determine the most prevalent colour of magic.
1-8 each number corresponding to a colour.

maybe the prevalent colour of magic can have unstoppable force or cannot fail, maybe magics of that colour cost one MP less to cast.
I feel the latter may be the least complex.
+ This could be made into a nice flavourfull wind dial GUI.
- Added complexity, more work.

edit: placed spoilers to hide ramblings of a deranged mind.:crazyeye:

Those were a few ideas i had...

Trying unsuccesfully to turn some basic meachanism into code.

Some questions about how we want the mechanism to feel:

Magic economy.
We will probably need the national 'warppower pool' to maintain lingering spells. As well as for the production of magical items.
(Worked warpstone could give a fixed bonus to MP economy.)

But I think using the MP economy to power individual mages, as I suggested earlier, misses the point.
Each mage needs his own power.
(But I would not like to code a system in which each mage is responcible for maintaining his/her own spells.)

that poses another question: What form does this power take?
A- mages have only one action they can perform, all spells cost the same (1 action).
warpflux then only affects magnitude and successchance of some spells.
This is quite similar to FFH.
B- warpflux*mage level determines number of 'Powercards' that can be drawn.
each powercard gives the mage 1powerpoint (in form of a promotion)
cards can potentially be dispells or Irresistable force.
This is pretty close to the WH rules...

About mages
How to determine what spells a mage can use? (or cast when carrying a book)
-Do all spells become available to mage gets a specialist-magic promotion?
-Or can a mage only cast spells carried in a book? (silly IMHO)

-Do we include a proficiency level promotion by which we determines what level of spells can be cast? (And this could also affect the power drawn by the mage.)

---

I have devised a sceme of promotions (on paper) for Mage proficiencyLevel (MAGIC1-4), specialisation promotions (AMBER/LIFE, FIRE/EMBERS, etc) and power available to individual mage (POWER1-4), as well as 'dispell' a one-use ability.
MAGIC# determines whether a mage can cast, the level of spells allowed and power drawn.
(Not sure whether the lower levels should remain after a higher level is attained.)
POWER 1-4, reset at start of turn, MAGIC# and warpflux determines number given to mage.
A mage with only MAGIC-promotions would be able to use generic spells only, but be good at dispelling.

DISPELL mage can use dispell to interrupt spell of enemy or an active spell in adjacent tile. Succesfull if Caster_level <= dispeller level. active spells are dispelled automatically.

Althoug this may work, I feel it is complex and messy. :(

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK um.
So having re-read this whole thread for once, I realise I am being an ass and reinventing the square wheel. :oops:
I totally forgot about the earlier discussed dispel-promotions concept.

----
Still. I don't like the spellbook-system too much.

I think we need to rethink this carefully...

1: Winds of Magic is a good idea... but is it really applicable?

we know the winds can ebb and flow but considering our turns work in a year by year system does it really justify having a code heavy technical monster?

we know that every thousand years or so the Winds really blow hard; during Chaos incursions but do we know the extent and influence that small changes actually have on spellcasting... in other words do we have a scale to rate it on?

Personally i dont think that the Winds matter all that much as a general rule, except during Chaos incursions...

This is because and dont beat me for this.... quite a few of the Winds are tied to Rivers, rise to the Atmosphere, Sink into the ground etc... all that excess magic would rather quickly dissapate... some congragate in certain areas how do we represent that?

Spells: The spells should be random, when you create a mage of an order the spells it should be able to cast should be generated randomly from that list...

Casting spells...: have a percentage based system for casting spells based on the mages lvl... vs the difficulty of the spell+magic items etc.... as the level of the mage increases i dont see why they shouldnt be able to cast multple spells :O

Yes we need discussion. :D
I just blurted a virtual miasma of conflicting/cumbersome ideas, let's hear everyone elses. :D

@Masada:
Winds:
It is just that on the tabletop (small scale), the winds are fickle too, represented by mages having available 5 power for spells on one turn and only 2 on the next.
In combat situations, the mage does not have time to wait for a good wind.
I understand that in the longterm of a civ-gameturn the mage has ample time to wait for optimal conditions.
(direct combat excluded, and then spells are irrelevant. except for inate mage-fire)

Spell complement of mages.
I don't think fixing this at creation is a good idea. (I personally would scrap worthless mages, in hope of building a good one later)
Also this randomness is based on the idea that mages either prepare before battle the spells they think are going to be usefull. Wizards being notoriously reclusive, they often do not quite grasp the neccesities of war. Furthermore they usually have spells memorised they were using for experimentation in labconditions. ;)
In short spell complement is a snap-shot of what the mage is capable of.
In many rule versions of WH, spells were allocated to mages randomly prior to battle. (although there are always exceptions)

So It may be better to in principle allow all spells to a mage, provided he/she has the appropriate Study-promotions.
Maybe an invisible system that disables/eneables spells from a mages repertoire, based on a randomnumber. I'd rather not have invisible mechanics, but the alternative is maybe just confusing.
...Maybe it is possible even to allow X-number of sphere-A and Y-number of sphere-B...
...Probably better to limit this kind of limitations to the number of Spells/spelllevel according to Skill-level...



Back to old wind ideas:
-Warpstorm counter: cummulative of spells used globally with some halftime dropoff.
Can be used to trigger warpstorms/chaos incursions.

-Wind direction/colour/flavour:
small bonus for magical spheres based on turn-based global random number.
Allocate each magic-group to a prismaticsphere (or several), they get bonus on power or dispel or become irrisistable to dispel.

EDIT:
Remember that magic in warhammer is one of the more random ingredients... except maybe for ork behaviour. ;) I'd love to include some form of randomness into it. Magic is a 'science' yes, but a dangerous one.
Also we need to considder that a civilization would look at magic like it would any technology: a way make things (happen), but with less effort.
(Or gain an edge over the competition, by a quick but dangerous way. Like using plague during a siege...)


Finally: national Magic Economy.
Is it just unneccesary?
I am beginning to feel sorry about mentioning this idea. ;)


Magic pollution: (again)
-magic is not city based
+could be used to mutate lands etc


Warpstone proximity/chaos wastes mutation:
Small chance (2%?) of unit gaining mutation-promotion. (random effect)
mutated units have higher resistance to magic. +dispel chance.
Unless civ is chaotic (civic or leadertrait or defined in a list), units with mutation leave civilization and become barbarian.
Mutations are cumulative. (list of mutation-promotions)
Some chaotic civs can mutate units on purpose with mined warpstone. A real possibility after multiple mutations is the Chaos spawn, which requires that the unit is mutated already.

@AH

I would assume that if you were to attack and/or defend and if you had a compliment of mages it would logical to attack when the winds are strong... and even if there not and your enemy tries to force combat... it would be entirely logical to deny combat by moving (whats the real size of a tile in civ? :P fairly large... and over how long does this continue? a year...)

But never the less the randomness would have an impact... because it is not an exact science... (lets call it a social science not an applied science :P) but to what extent that should have an impact in game terms... thats what needs to be decided...

It should be noted that it cannot be to random, the occasional bout of random chance is fine... but the chances that it could happen on a regular occasion.. is not...

So with that in mind we have a couple of objectives:

1. That the random chance not be to random e.g a more than sporting chance of a lvl 1 mage beating a lvl 4 mage...

2. That spells actually have an offensive effect (at least for lower lvl spells, or why bother building them at lower lvls)

3. That it is possible for the player to have a way to view the strength of the winds of magic at a given time e.g to allow a mage heavy player to invade at a time best suiting him

4. This is an interesting point, should it be easier to defend or attack with magic? or should it be a balance... in traditional civ Defence tends to be the safer beat with most things... attack tends to really on superiority... but with defence a vastly inferior enemy can hold off quite easily... what should be the go with magic? (this is assuming that the mages are equal in strength)

Spell choices...

We shouldnt have a straight linear form of magical progression... after all this isnt an exact science...

I dont think its uncompadiable to have a low lvl Mage with a big spell, the draw back of course would the chance of actually casting said spell...

e.g A lvl 1 Mage should be able to cast the lvl 1 spell X% of time (that would be the bottom rung of the spells in tabletop game) whereas the lvl 5 spell would have X-Y% of casting the spell....

So it would be possible by random chance to get a big spell on a low lvl mage in addition to the lowest lvl spell... but the chance of casting that high lvl spell would be significantly lower...

@AH

The Warpstone Counter is essential... how to make it work for Chaos would be a matter of figuring it out but once used it should collapse back to normal lvls rather quickly...

A though on this... it triggers the ability for mages to summon masses of demons which rely on the Warpstone Counter for strength or fade away when it hits 0...

We could limit the Chaos player to only raiding in between incursion by giving the baseline chaos units negatives for attacking cities allowing them to raid and ravage territory but not take cities... in addition this could be tempered by giving them all Commando (and this could furthermore be tempered by making Chaos made roads, roads in regards to connections... but not in regards to movement meaning they can connect luxeries but not move fast over them :lol: )

The demons summoned during the incursion could have anti city or anti defensible position attributes... to offset the negative for city attacks that normal chaos units have....

Meaning that the only viable time for chaos incursions is during these incursions everything else is for raiding only... :lol:

(This would probably not be applicable during a normal game... it would be more suited towards our Rhye project... actually even the magic mechanic would be better suited for it :crazyeye: )

Winddirection... that would work for the most part... not sure yet how we would impliment it... but a coloured counter would work fine... red 5 for 5 strength Fire school bonus... only about 20 or so colours :lol: what about high magic etc

National Magic Economy... its probably not needed... but something along those lines would be...

Mutation would be awesome :D

[I'm not going to respond to all points right now, just a few, I have an appointment]

I agree on the mages vs each other, but mostly this involves dispell.
(I think besides the chance to dispell a spell nearby, a mage should ALWAYS get a dispell change based on levels if mage is the target)

Low level wizards with high level spells. Yeah, but not very likely, so I ignored it for now. Unless you count the magicpoints system, where lowlevel mages gt less magicpower and thus by default are less likely to attempt a highlevel-highcost spell.
Maybe casting a highlevel spell has progressively higher chance of failure.
And see: spell failure on previous page.


I like the idea of the warpcounter being used for summoning demons.
This is very inline with the canon. each summons draining the counter by an increment. (not summons of other stuff naturally, that increases it.)

wind colour: We would need to fit all the magicpegs into the colour holes, many of the race specific ones will fit multiple, so those may have to be less responsive to this flux. Also terraintype factors could have influence there.

gotta go now.
//well that was a nice bicicleride, nice bbq, nice swim, nice ride back (with bottle of wine)
//if you guys don't hear from me ever again, it was either the raw chicken or the algea in the water. ;)
//confident it won't get that far though... my inate resistance to pathogens is legendary. :D

4- I think on average, attack should be favoured. Especially when the winds are favourable.
Considder: when defending, you don't always know when or where or with what means the enemy will be attacking (unless you are a Slann). When you attack, you usually select a direct attack and know where your target is. (right in front of you or in that city over that hill)

hmmm... maybe the strength of the spell could be relative to the level of the mage?... in the tabletop game regardless of level your mage attempts to cast the same power lvl spell, what is to stop the mage from just casting a slightly weaker wall of fire?

You dont gennerally need it glowing white hot, burning alone should do it for the most part

Warpcounter for summoning demons and perhaps weaving special chaos spells... e.g A Chaos version of a tactical nuke :P to wipe defenders out of a city.... e.g A rather large Nurgle Magical Plague etc

Wind Colour... maybe just have the specialized magics not tied to the winds that might be a benifit and/or drawback of it...

Terrian would be interesting...

You rode a bike while drinking? When we next see PH in forums we should ask him to look up if thats against the law in Western Australia because i bet they have a law, demerit points and a heafty fine for you if you do :lol:

And they probably have a fine for swimming in Algae infested waters

Pretty sure it is illegal here too. ;) if they catch you doing so.

I don't quite get your first point. You want spells to be variable in powersetting? I'm pretty sure that would be quite difficult to code.
In tabletop, mages can often elect how much power they invest in a spell, but I'm not sure if we want that in this mod.

I don't get the sentence about the winds either... I may be hung over. :p

Yes, terrain and feature boni. such as hills for light and forest for amber etc.
might be cool, but not terribly crucial. probably requirements for spell target plot are more important.

Wizard magic-promotion-level would determine:
1-number of spells that will be available for casting.
2- (maybe) number of spells that can be cast/turn. (like: 1/trn <=lv2, 2/trn<=lv3)
3- chance of succes for spells, compared to spell level.
4- power of succesfull spells.
5- chance to dispell.
6- (maybe) mage-mage mind battles.
(or should this be a function of general unit experience? A battlemage focussing on a level1 fireball and combat promotions could eventually have equl strength as a LV4 wizard.)

-We cannot have too many spells available to the mage each turn.
I suggest L1-1 spell, L2 2 spells, L3 3spells (2xcast/turn) L4 4spells (2x)
So each promotion gives a random spell selected from a list of allowed spells, spelllevel distribution like:

chance of spell selection:
LV1: LV2: LV3: LV4:
S1 75 25 5 0
S2 20 50 20 10
S3 5 20 65 50
S4 0 5 10 40
S=spell, LV = magic-promotion

Succes chance would follow a similar inverted pattern:

Succesrate for wizard of level LV for spell of level S.
LV1: LV2: LV3: LV4:
S1 75 95 95 95
S2 25 75 95 95
S3 10 25 75 95
S4 0 10 25 75

eg:
LV1: LV2: LV3: LV4:
S1 +75 +20 - -
S2 +25 +50 +20 -
S3 +10 +15 +50 +20
S4 +0 +10 +15 +50

Something similar again for spell power. Unless we decide that is a function of unit.experience.
Perhaps magic-promotion level can determine things like number of turns a spell lasts...calculated from the initial succes chance and lowering each turn, depending on the spellscript. (basically a spell fail check each turn.)

The only problem I can forsee with this sceme is that when a wizard studies many types of magic, the list of choices may beome too long and the selections of spells available to the highlevel mage extremely unreliable.
suggestions to circumvent this:
-force one spell per magic-type. Drawback: could again give too many spells to choose from.
-Magic books: spells in a carried book are always available. (but can only be cast if mage has studied corresponding magic-type) This is actually a good representation of the mage taking along copies of favorite spells.
(we may have to limit the number of spells that can be inside a book)


Dispel: something similar again for dispell chances.
higher level: 50%, equal level: 25%, lowerlevel: 10%?
(I should revisit two pages back for suggested chances.)

wind: I think a no-fail for favourable winds would work out well.
Or maybe an additional free spell action?
Chance to dispel i think would remain unaffected.
No effect on spell power, lets not make the basic system more complex than required.
(individual spells can add more complexity, if wanted.)

I'm going to use Talchas' actionbuttons and spell-example mods as a startingpoint for abilities and magic.

As a code-rat (as opposed to a monkey), I unfortunately have failed to retro engineer the magic/ability code from ffe2. (BTW, where is the stuff Olleus has done so far to be found?)


Unless someone has a better (read: clearer) example to borrow code from, I'll start trying to implement some working buttons with the former examples.

Objective 1 get deployment and packup actions working for Armytrain.unit (mission) as a training for the big job.
edit:
Without compiling the modcomp just bombs to desktop.
SDK...Uh another complicated thing to learn?
I've tried once now to compile the changes I made (following a post that TGA reposted), and got a BSoD for my trouble. I'll see what happened later tonight, but fear the worst. I think there was a second post on (free) compiling SDK, I'll check into that.
If all else fails, I will dump this line and revert to good ol' Python and XML. (actionbuttons v1.4)
edit:
Ploep veto- armytrain not needed as already is implemented in charlemagne. (see: brainstorm)

BUMP :D:D

check the first post for old spell ideas, and we can either continue using this thread for new spell development or start a new, less clutterd one.

New ideas for spells. i will do corrections to spells listed in the first post in blue

There are eight colleges of magic, one for each of the ‘colours’ of the winds of magic:
Amber (beasts)
Amethyst (death)
Bright (fire)
Celestial (heavens)
Gold (metal)
Grey (shadow)
Jade (life)
Light (light).
The three most spectacular college buildings - the flame-topped towers of the Bright college, the lofty spires of the Celestial college and the mystic pyramid of the Light college – are magically concealed so that few residents of Altdorf are even aware of their presence. The Jade college, a thing formed from living trees, is hidden behind high stone walls. The Grey college is a run-down building located in the city’s poorest slums, and allegedly connects to many secret tunnels. The college of the Amethyst order overlooks the infamous haunted cemetery of Old Altdorf, the resting place of the plague victims, and few dare go near it. The Alchemists of the Gold college maintain a vast, smoke-billowing forge complex, and pollute the river Reik with their arcane chemicals. Only the Amber order has no college within the city, preferring instead the caves of the Amber Hills, away from the civilisation that is the antipathy of their magic.


there should be a few spell types:
TARGET ATTACK SPELL (player chooses target enemy)
AUTO ATTACK SPELL (targets nearest enemy)
TARGET COLLATERAL SPELL (player chooses target enemy stack)
AUTO COLLATERAL SPELL (targets nearest enemy stack)
SELF SPELL (targets the caster)
TARGET HELP SPELL (player Chooses target ally)
AUTO HELP SPELL (targets nearest ally)
SUMMON SPELL (summons a new unit that lasts x turns)

Also, note that spells selected by mages should be random. upon level up a mage may choose his wind of magic and the comp randomly selects spells according to his level. this means that these spells are not necessarily in order.

all spells should have a 5% chance of being cast with "irresistable force" which means that magic resistance is ignored and it cannot be dispelled. there should also be a 5% chance of 'miss