This is the status qou with the Empire. It's currently the most complete civ in the mod. That's why I started this thread first. So what to do with it. We need first of all unitstats for it. No public release without that. Suggestions?

The Units:

Ancient

Worker
Ancient Warrior: Unberogen Warrior
Ancient Spearman: Unberogen Spearman
Ancient Archer: Unberogen Archer
Ancient Axeman: Unberogen Axeman
Ancient Swordman: Unberogen Swordsman
Shaman: Unberogen Shaman
Horse-Archer: Ungol Horse-Archer
Catapult
Chariot: NONE
Monster I: Pegasus
Scout: Halfling Scout
Galley:

Age of Magic

Citizen
Militia Spearman: Imperial Spearmen
Militia Archer: Imperial Bowmen
Militia Swordsman: Imperial Swordsmen
Light Knight: Kislev Winged Lancer
Hedge-Wizard
Bolt-Thrower: NONE, get Mortar in Age of Discovery Instead
War Chariot: NONE
Monster II: Griffon
Explorer: Halfling Explorer
Caravel: Empire War Galley
Age of Discovery

Royal Guard: Greatswords
Pikemen: Halberdiers
Longbowmen: Imperial Hunters
Crossbowmen: Imperial Marksmen
Heavy Knight: Reiksguard Knights
Wizard
Cannon: Great Cannon
Galleon: Imperial Greatship
Frigate: Imperial Wolfship

Mechanical Age:

Cavalry: Pistolier
Musketman: Hand-Gunner
Monster III: NONE, Get Hellblaster Volley Gun Instead
Ironclad: Ironfist, Hell-Hammer
Special Unit: Steam Tank

Religious:

Flaggelants
Witchhunter
Acolyte of Sigmar



Unique Wonders:
?

Unique Buildings:
?
Unique Techs:
?

Starting Techs:
?

Traits (currently):
Imperial, Expansive

I listed the current features of the Empire above. For some of the units I haven't good Art yet (mostly the ships and the Mortar and the ancient units). The ships aren't defined as units yet, the rest is complete in the mod and does require stats and prereqs.

Some ideas ..

Special unit characteristics
Ungol Horse-Archer, Kislev Winged Lancer, Pistolier
- fast cavalry, so they can withdraw from combat
Flaggelants
- immune to psychology (panic, fear, terror)
- unbreakable (will never retreat from combat)
Acolyte of Sigmar
- is this a priest of sigmar?
- empire priests can do prayers to affect other units or the enemy
- they hate all enemies of Sigmar (all ‘evil’ races)

Unique Wonders
The Moot
- necessary to build Halflings
- or some other benefit
Reichstag
- wonder that improves of Palace benefits
The Suiddock
- in Empire because Westerland shouldn't be a fraction IMO
- gives extra commerce

Unique Buildings
Witch execution stand
- gives city happiness
The Order of The blazing Sun/the broken sword/the everlasting light etcetera
- allows the specific knight to be built. This is slightly better that a normal knight
- The Order of the Knights of the Inner Circle is the best order

Unique Techs
Detachments*
- is a special empire-only rule in WH that allows units to cooperate
- could be a tech after tactics

Starting Techs
None, the humans are one of the last developing races.

Other, for the future interesting, things
Halfling hotpot
- light catapult that throws hot food
Orders of Magic
- building a specific order will give access to specific spells (8 lores to choose from)


*Detachments: for example, there’s a warrior block in the middle and a separate smaller block of archers at the side. The archers are the detachment of the warrior. In case a raging pack of orcs charges the warriors, the archers may stand and shoot them. Without the detachment rule this would not be possible, because only the warriors can react to the charge.

I’m sorry .. it’s kinda difficult to explain ..

I like all of your suggestions DJ, as always:D just a couple of things:

I think, that because the Empire has access to all of theose knightly orders, they should not have a "light Knight" unit, instead they should have a Free Companies unit, which becoms avaliable at Detatchments, and starts with the Detatchment promotion.

The Detachments could be implemented by making the Detachments tech allow the promotion "Detachment 1 / 2" this promotion could make it possible for the unit with the promotion to do a 'hit and run attack' if it attack the stack it is in. and then the game plays out as normal.
example. two empire units, a regiment of Imperial Archers and another of Free Companies, are attacked by a unit of Orc Big Boyz. both of these units are in thesame stack, and the Free Companies has the Detatchment promotion and the Archers do not. before the Orcs manage to get into combat with the archers, the Free Companies intercepts the orcs, attacking one full round of combat (ie, both figures strike once), the Free Companies then retreats as if it was affected by fear. the now slightly weakened Orcs now attack the archers as normal.
I hope that made sense. because i really like the idea of Detatchments.

I also like the idea of not allowing human races any starting techs (because they are the newest races)

I like all of your suggestions DJ, as always:D just a couple of things:

Thanks you very much!

I think, that because the Empire has access to all of theose knightly orders, they should not have a "light Knight" unit, instead they should have a Free Companies unit, which becoms avaliable at Detatchments, and starts with the Detatchment promotion.

I could´t come up with the name .. thanks :) .. that certailny is a good idea. That would replace the kislev's, which don't belong in the empire army IMO (because we have a Kislev fraction too). The free companies should be regular or with bows

The Detachments could be implemented by making the Detachments tech allow the promotion "Detachment 1 / 2" this promotion could make it possible for the unit with the promotion to do a 'hit and run attack' if it attack the stack it is in. and then the game plays out as normal.
example. two empire units, a regiment of Imperial Archers and another of Free Companies, are attacked by a unit of Orc Big Boyz. both of these units are in thesame stack, and the Free Companies has the Detatchment promotion and the Archers do not. before the Orcs manage to get into combat with the archers, the Free Companies intercepts the orcs, attacking one full round of combat (ie, both figures strike once), the Free Companies then retreats as if it was affected by fear. the now slightly weakened Orcs now attack the archers as normal.
I hope that made sense. because i really like the idea of Detatchments.

Sounds very good! Only i don't like the fear thing. Withdrawel (like light knights) sounds better to me. But i really like this idea .. makes me very enthousiastic. The bow detachment unit will be better cause they have 'stand and shoot' so they have one shot before entering combat (as usual).

I also like the idea of not allowing human races any starting techs (because they are the newest races)

Great! now wait for the other opinions. ;)

Yes, i didnt like the Kislev horsey in the Empire either;) hope Ploe agrees with the free companies, now all i need is a replacement for that Ungol horse archer...

Yes, perhaps the fear thing in Detatchements is not so good, light horsey retreatnig sounds better. and perhaps diferent unit types could have different ways of being detatchments (ie archer type detachments stand and shoot, cavalry hit twice, because they are fast, infantry like normal etc etc.)

Yes, i didnt like the Kislev horsey in the Empire either;) hope Ploe agrees with the free companies, now all i need is a replacement for that Ungol horse archer...

Yes, perhaps the fear thing in Detatchements is not so good, light horsey retreatnig sounds better. and perhaps diferent unit types could have different ways of being detatchments (ie archer type detachments stand and shoot, cavalry hit twice, because they are fast, infantry like normal etc etc.)

the ungol horse archer isn't that bad .. sounds kinda early men IMO .. lik when they still were nomad-like and scattered throughout the lands ..

o man .. i really like the detachments now ..
these kind of things would make this mod very good! (and far better than the regular game .. but don't tell Sid .. )

:goodjob:

:lol:

the ungols are a chaotic tribe of men east of Norsca i think. and i dont particularly see them an the Empire joining sides;)

Rename it to an Unberogen raider or Unberogen horse archer or something. it would also sound like it fits better.

Oh, and where are the Warrior-Priests of Sigmar?

you're right .. Unberogen raider fits far better ..

What are 'Acolytes of Sigmar'? I thought that were the priests.

Acolyte of Sigmar
- is this a priest of sigmar?
- empire priests can do prayers to affect other units or the enemy
- they hate all enemies of Sigmar (all ‘evil’ races)

The Ungol were dominating the territory of whats now Kislev in ancient times until the Gospodar drove them back and founded Kislev that's so far what I read. They were a chaotic lot that often switched sides that's why you'll find them as early horsearchers for Kislev as well as the Empire. I'd like them to be the horsearcher since they seem to have invented that fighting technic and Kislev actually adopted that from them(they will get the Kislev Horse Archer as Militia I suggest).
I see no reason why different civs shouldn't share some units especially since they were allways close allies like the Empire and Kislev. Kislev will also profit from the Empires achievements.(same with chaos and Beastmen imo)
I like the detachment idea.

The original design for Religious Units was
Acolyte
Priest
Highpriest
Incarnation

I'm not sure if we will stick to this but for now I only have a model that fits for an Acolyte that's why it's in. And the reason why ther's no Warriorpriest is I don't have a model for that yet.

Btw: the freecompany is already in. Seems I forgot to mention that. It's not important now to stick to the schema. All civs will get loads of extraunits anyway. The schema is just the skeleton or base to work on.
What I need to know is when in history acertain type of unit should appear and what should it be able to do.

yes, i see your point now ploe, accepted. (just dont share too many units;))

So, Kislev doesn`t get its own faction? :confused:

BTW, why shouldn`t Westerland have its own faction too? They are independant..

OT - but a guy I only ever see in CivIII forums is finally here. :) Nice to get some cross-over.

So, Kislev doesn`t get its own faction? :confused:

BTW, why shouldn`t Westerland have its own faction too? They are independant..
I think Westerland isn't diverse enough to justify a seperate civ. If we put them in why not Middenheim and the whole lot of other provinces too? That has no end to it.
Kislev is already in, as is Estalia, Bretonnia, Tilea, Nippon, Araby, Ind and Cathay. I really think that's enough for now regarding humies. If I ever get bored with the Elves Chaos and the lot and I want to design some Dutch medieval units I might rethink that but this is unlikely to happen, I'm afraid.;)

well, if you can come up with a unit list for Westerland, leaders and traits, then we could put them in Stormrage. but at the mo, we have enough on out plates.

If ya ain't Dutch .. ya ain't much :lol:

But I understand the Ungol and Kislev thinking, it's a justified choice.

In the top of my post I mentioned some characteristics that certain units have. Most of the empire army is rather simple, without any specials things (I'll have to check the armybook tonight to be certain).

About the timeline: the units are divided in three areas. I think that is okay.

If we want more different units we always could use my ‘The order of’-idea. Different knight must be easy to make, since the base is the same. For more units I’ll check the armybook and some fluff.

.. and i agree on westerland .. although i'm Dutch ;)

I don`t think Middenheim and the other provinces are independent, thats why they are calleed provinces ;)

Westerlander are the undisputed rulers of the sea, thats their strength, but yeah, they are pretty generic otherwise. I`ll don`t plan to play this mod for a looong time, so I guess its unimportant :)

Psy - you have the list... :crazyeye:

If ya ain't Dutch .. ya ain't much :lol:

‘The order of’-idea. Different knight must be easy to make, since the base is the same. For more units I’ll check the armybook and some fluff.

.. and i agree on westerland .. although i'm Dutch ;)
I will certainly like to create Knightorders so I think we'll have a lot of them.
And about the Netherlands no offense taken I hope, I like your country. Especially your liberal laws concerning certain weeds:D
It's really just whom to choose. I think the Empire contains a lot of county styles and if we put in the Netherlands/Westerland why not Austria, Switzerland and so on. I think dividing all those civs to Reikland, Middenheim, Westerland etc. is really the only thing I don't like in civ3. Normally the empire(or Reikland in civ3) gets beaten up in my gameexperience instead of forming a large empire(like it happened in WH-History). I really want the empire strong in mapscenarios for our mod. But we can allways invent some special units to represent these country styles in the empire army;)

I Do? thats news to me:crazyeye:

Whats all this Middenheim talk? The Westerlanders are independent, K? Not under Emperor`s rule. Not a part of the Empire. Not one province of the Empire that gets its own civ, it is its own civ. I don`t care much if you put it in or not, but the reasons you are stating for not doing so don`t have anything to with common sense :crazyeye: You can just say - Westerland is boring, maybe in the future ;)

Psy - you have the WH mod - it has all the units, leaders, city lists and whatnot

Whats all this Middenheim talk? The Westerlanders are independent, K? Not under Emperor`s rule. Not a part of the Empire. Not one province of the Empire that gets its own civ, it is its own civ. I don`t care much if you put it in or not, but the reasons you are stating for not doing so don`t have anything to with common sense :crazyeye: You can just say - Westerland is boring, maybe in the future ;)

Psy - you have the WH mod - it has all the units, leaders, city lists and whatnot

.. he has spoken .. and i agree
Westerland is boring .. maybe in the future

:lol: Ok Westerland is boring and I admit I never would play it in civ3 and in civ4 also not. So no point making units for them and that's it. Maybe if another crazy Dutch Junkie creates them for the Netherlands mod we'll think about it other wise it's a no go.Although I liked to play the Dutch in vanilla civ3:D

Alright what about the empire now? Can someone summarize?

We only spoke about Detachments, some units and Westerland.

We need:
- more units?
- more techs?
- more buildings?
- more wonders?
- ???

My few ideas are in 3rd post ..

Ahem okay no. right now we don't need more units. We need to design the existing ones! What's their strngth, what their weakness, what prereq tech and building etc.?
Ah well maybe better I upload the mod first;)

Also can you tell us which units have artwork already and which are in already? That would help us a lot.

Also can you tell us which units have artwork already and which are in already? That would help us a lot.
You will see this after I uploaded. If the server works tonight expect it in a few hours when I'm back at home;)

I did some thinking of the Empire, and these are my thoughts. Maybe we can use this as a start to make empire logic and fun to play. Please comment and post your thinking. Maybe this van be in the first post, otherwise i'll update it with your thinking in this post.

thingies
- Empire should start with only hunting. Mining is certainly not realistic. The only fighting unit available will be Unberogen Warrior (or Hunter).
- There’s no tech available for spearmen. Something like defense (from hunting to settling people realise they need to protect the villages) Tech can be from hunting; just like archery. (or simply horseback riding .. spears are effective against riders and can appear almost the same time .. or a tech later)
- A loose Pegasus is not that useful; they’re not that strong. It’s more an überhorse that gives extra movement. It can be included as a monster. But it is nice as a mount for wizards too.
- Imperial units need a tech to make them available. Military Training is a good one. Can be at a time like feudalism.
- Detachments should be added as a Empire-specific tech after feudalism.
- Mortar needs a tech, something after gunpowder .. like Cannonry
- Reiksguard Knights appear with feudalism imo .. other knight (of the .. ) at a later time

Unberogen Warrior/Hunter
- standard warrior stats
- standard warrior strengths
- standard warrior weaknesses
- needs tech: Hunting
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Unberogen Spearman
- standard spearman stats
- standard spearman strength
- standard spearman weaknesses
- needs tech: no tech available; needs something like defense
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Unberogen Archer
- standard archer stats
- standard archer strength
- standard archer weaknesses
- needs tech: Archery
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Unberogen Axeman
- standard axeman stats
- standard axeman strength
- standard axeman weaknesses
- needs tech: Cold forging
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: iron

Unberogen Swordsman
- standard swordsman stats
- standard swordsman strength
- standard swordsman weaknesses
- needs tech: Hot Forging
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: iron

Unberogen Shaman
- stats less than warrior
- no strengths (bad combat unit)
- weak against combat units
- needs tech: Raw Magic
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Ungol Horse-Archer
- standard light cavalry stats
- standard light cavalry strength
- standard light cavalry weaknesses
- needs tech: Archery, Horseback riding
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: Horses

Catapult
- standard catapult stats
- standard catapult strengths
- standard catapult weaknesses
- needs tech: Artillery
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Pegasus
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Monster Taming
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: Pegasus nest

Halfling Scout
- standard scout stats
- standard scout strengths
- standard scout weaknesses
- needs tech: hunting
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Galley
- standard galley stats
- standard galley strengths
- standard galley weaknesses
- needs tech: Sailing
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Imperial Spearmen
- improved spearman stats
- improved spearman strengths
- improved spearman weaknesses
- needs tech: no tech available; Military Training
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Imperial Bowmen
- standard longbowman stats
- standard longbowman strengths
- standard longbowman weaknesses
- needs tech: Archery, no tech available; Military Training
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Imperial Swordsmen
- improved swordsman stats
- improved swordsman strengths
- improved swordsman weaknesses
- needs tech: no tech available; Military Training, Hot Forging
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: Iron

Kislev Winged Lancer
- improved light cavalry stats
- improved light cavalry strengths
- improved light cavalry weaknesses
- needs tech: Horseback Riding, Military Training.
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: Horses

[/B]Hedge-Wizard[/B]
- stats less than imperial men
- no strengths (bad combat unit)
- weak against combat units
- needs tech: Elder Magic (should be later in tech)
- needs no buildings
- needs no resource

Griffons
- stats
- strengths: Terror
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Monster Breeding
- needs no buildings
- needs resource: Griffon

Halfling Explorer
- standard explorer stats
- standard explorer strengths
- standard explorer weaknesses
- standard explorer tech
- standard explorer building
- standard explorer resource

Empire War Galley
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech
- needs building
- needs resource

Free swordsmen companies
- imperial swordsman stats
- strengths: detachment
- weaknesses: same as imperial swordsmen
- needs tech: not yet available; Detachments
- needs building
- needs resource

Free archer companies
- imperial archer stats
- strengths: detachment
- weaknesses: same as imperial archer
- needs tech: not yet available; Detachments
- needs building
- needs resource

Mortar
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses: can’t shoot at close distance
- needs tech: no tech available; Cannonry
- needs building
- needs resource: iron

Greatswords
- stats
- strengths: stubborn; test on unmodified leadership
- weaknesses: great weapon; slow
- needs tech: ?around the time of guilds?
- needs building:
- needs resource: iron

Halberdiers
- further improved spearman stats
- strengths: armoured enemies, very tough creatures
- weaknesses: great weapon; slow
- needs tech: ?around the time of guilds?
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Imperial Huntsmen
- stats
- strengths: skirmishers
- weaknesses:
- needs tech: Guilds
- needs building: Hunting Guild
- needs resource:

Imperial Marksmen
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech:
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Reiksguard Knights
- stats
- strengths: with grand master: immune to psychology
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Feudalism
- needs building:
- needs resource: Horses

Wizard
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Winds of Magic
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Great Cannon
- stats
- strengths: grapeshot; can shoot back if attacked
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Cannonry
- needs building:
- needs resource: iron

Imperial Greatship
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech:
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Imperial Wolfship
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech:
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Pistolier
- stats
- strengths: fusillade; extra pistol attack in first turn, fast cavalry
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Feudalism
- needs building: Something where young royalty goes too;
- needs resource: horses, iron

Hand-Gunner
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Gunpowder/handguns
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Hellblaster Volley Gun
- stats
- strengths: lots of shots
- weaknesses: lots of jams
- needs tech: cannonry and something beyond that
- needs building:
- needs resource: iron

Ironfist
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech:
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Steam Tank
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech: cannonry and something beyond that
- needs building: some engineer’s shop
- needs resource: iron

Flaggelants
- stats
- strengths: crazed; immune to all psychology based thingies, 2 attacks
- weaknesses: expandable
- needs tech: really don’t know
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Witchhunter
- stats
- strengths
- weaknesses
- needs tech: Inquisition
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Warrior Priest of Sigmar
- stats
- strengths: dispel dice, hate all evil, prayers. prayers: re-roll to wound, ward save, healing, mortar hit on undead and daemons
- weaknesses
- needs tech: winds of magic
- needs building: chapel of sigmar (any holy building)
- needs resource:

Master engineer
- stats
- strengths: improves the great cannon and mortar
- weaknesses: against any combat units
- needs tech: Inquisition
- needs building:
- needs resource:

Impressive list DJ:crazyeye:
everything looks OK (but to be honest i only speed read it, so i may have missed stuff;))

One other idea though: I really liked the building mechanism in FfH, so i think, that having to build buildings to get each new unit would be vey good. i ma statr a poll to see what people think of this idea...

Impressive list DJ:crazyeye:
everything looks OK (but to be honest i only speed read it, so i may have missed stuff;))

One other idea though: I really liked the building mechanism in FfH, so i think, that having to build buildings to get each new unit would be vey good. i ma statr a poll to see what people think of this idea...

Not all but certain units really need that imo .. units like a warrior certainly not .. but a hellblaster volley gun could need some engineers guild or something ..

i agree with you on that

HI there, wanted to tell you, that i think we should replace the Kislev Units in the Empire Army List by something like mounted Seargents, badsiclly Empire Soldiers on Horse. Graphically it wont be any work for me. And i would prefer that, now that Kislev has its own civ (i will improve the graphics for the winged lancer soon and do some Corsairs)

:lol: we we just discussing that, and i think we agreed that they would be changed

This is the status qou with the Empire. It's currently the most complete civ in the mod. That's why I started this thread first. So what to do with it. We need first of all unitstats for it. No public release without that. Suggestions?

Age of Magic

Bolt-Thrower: NONE, get Mortar in Age of Discovery Instead


Age of Discovery

Royal Guard: Greatswords
Pikemen: Halberdiers
Longbowmen: Imperial Hunters
Crossbowmen: Imperial Marksmen
Heavy Knight: Reiksguard Knights
Wizard
Cannon: Great Cannon
Galleon: Imperial Greatship
Frigate: Imperial Wolfship

Hm?? No Mortar anywhere in the list, maybe give it to them in the Age of magic or switch with the Great Cannon.

It's meant as additional unit as soon we have a model to represent it. Same with other units a civ gets in other ages. Both mortar and Great cannon would need metalcasting as well as gunpowder but gunpowder isn't fitting for the age of magic.

It's meant as additional unit as soon we have a model to represent it. Same with other units a civ gets in other ages. Both mortar and Great cannon would need metalcasting as well as gunpowder but gunpowder isn't fitting for the age of magic.

OK, you´re right with the point about gunpowder - Now do the Unit :p

I hope we get some new models from AoE conversions but I don't have that game so we simply should wait;)

I thought I´d better move the discussion about the Empire-Unitstats to this thread.

This is what We came up with, for now. Some Units are still missing and others may not be perfect - but I think we better let playtesting decide that.


Ancient

Settler: S0, M2, can found a new city - cost 100
Worker: S0, 0FS, M2, can improve tiles - cost 60
Work Boat: S0, M2, cannot enter ocean, can create fishing boats and whaling boats - cost 30
Unberogen Warrior: S2, 1FS, M1, +25% City Defense - cost 15
Unberogen Spearman: S4, 1FS, M1, +50% vs Cavalry (not ranged) - cost 30
Unberogen Archer: S3, 1FS, 1FSC, M1, +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense - cost 25
Unberogen Axeman: S4, 0FS, M1, +25% vs Melee - cost 30
Unberogen Swordsman: S4, 1FS, M1, +20% City-Attack - cost 30
Unberogen Shaman: S3, 0FS, M1, can cast spells - cost 35
Ungol Horse-Archer: S4, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, +50% vs Artilery, no Defense Bonus, Withdraw 25% - cost 45
Catapult: S4, 1FS, M1, no Defense Bonus, Withdraw 25%, collateral 3 units 10%, City-Bombard 15% - cost 35
Pegasus: ???
Halfling Scout: S1, 1FS, M2, +100% vs Animals, only Defense, better results from Villages - cost 15
Galley: S2, M2, Cargo Space 2, cannot enter ocean - cost 50

Age of Magic

Citizen: ??? (what´s this supposed to be? a better Worker?)
Imperial Spearmen: S6, 1FS, M1, +50% vs Cavalry (not ranged) - cost 60
Imperial Bowmen: S5, 2FS, 1FSC, M1, +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense - cost 50
Imperial Swordsmen: S6, 1FS, M1, +20% City-Attack - cost 50
Kislev Winged Lancer: S7, 1FS, M3, no Defense-Bonus, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 25% - cost 75
Hedge-Wizard: S5, 0FS, M1, can cast Spells - cost 60
Griffon: S10, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 25%, flying - cost 200
Halfling Explorer: S3, 1FS, M2, better Results from Villages - cost 35
Imperial War Galley: S3, M3, Cargo Space 1 (can carry scout, explorer, missionary, spy, or great people), can explore rival territory w/o triggering war - cost 60


Age of Discovery

Greatswords: S8, 1FS, M1, +20% City-Attack, +25% vs Monsters, +25% vs Melee - cost 100
Halberdiers: S8, 1FS, M1, +50% vs Cavalry (not ranged) - cost 90
Imperial Hunters: S6, 3FS, 1FSC, M1 +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense - cost 70
Imperial Crossbowmen (Marksman is the Champion Unit): S7, 2FS, M1, +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills Defense - cost 70
Reiksguard Knights: S9, 1FS, M2, no Defense-Bonus, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 25% - cost 110
Wizard: S6, 0FS, M1, can cast spells - cost 90
Great Cannon S7, 1FS, 1FSC, M1, collateral 4 Units 15%, City Bombard 20%, Withdraw 25% - cost 70
Mortar: ???
Imperial Greatship: S5, M4, Cargo Space 3 - cost 80
Imperial Wolfship: S8, M4, Can bombard city defenses -10% - cost 90


Mechanical Age:

Pistolier: S8, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, no Defense-Bonus, +50% vs Artillery, Withdraw 25% - cost 120
Hand-Gunner: S8, 2FS, M1, +25% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense, +20% City-Attack - cost 90
Hellblaster Volley Gun: S7, 2FS, 2FSC, M1, collateral 5 Units 20%, Withdraw 25% - cost 90
Ironfist: ???
Hell-Hammer: ???
Steam Tank: S9, 2FS, 1FSC, M2, collateral 4 Units 15%, City Bombard 20%, Withdraw 25% - cost 150

The ships are like the vanilla ones (except that the Galley got +1 Str).

Ironfist and Hellhammer: are those two both combat ships? Or is one of them a transport, and if so, which one?

Ungol Horse Archer and the Pistolier are supposed to be "Ranged Cavalry" unit-types.


My comments (positive comments! ):
- Unberogen Warrior: no city defense, they are the old hunter warriors!

So are the vanilla cIV ones and they also have the +25%, I see no reason to change that, so i left the bonus in for now.

- Pegasus is still useless as a unit imo .. it is a strong mount, not a monster!

I don´t think it´s useless, I like the idea of having at least two different monsters for the Empire and not only footsoldiers and knights (I think I can remember in the old days they had a lot of Ogres in the Empire, but that semms to have changed)

- Rename imperial galley to something without imperial

You´re right, shouldn´t be imperial, changed that.

- Halberdiers should get city defense (they are the true city defenders fluffwise)

I don´t know if this would make the Halberdiers to universal, having bonus in defense and against cavalry, I think we need to discuss this. I think it should be one or the other and in that case I´d prefer to stick to the "schema" and make them a anti cavalry unit - I think it´s better gameplay-wise, sometimes we might have to get a little distance from the fluff.

- Steam tank S9, 2FS, 1FSC, M2, collateral 4 Units 15%, City Bombard 20%, Withdraw 50% - cost 150 (an improved driving cannon)
- Griffon Rider S10, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 50%, flying - cost 200 (improved flying reiksguard)

Thanks a lot for those two, put 'em right in, but I changed the withdrawal chance to 25% - 50% is just too much IMO and it decreases the chance of the loss of ones best units even more.

Much more apropiate, and thanks for commenting my comments :) You are right most of the time ..

Still a pegasus is no monster .. I would like a discussion or at least some more opinions about that. Ogres are common in Empire armies, as mercenaries. Give them empire 'clothing' or attributes and you got a nice 'monster'! That would be a better option imo.

I really like my wizard-upgrade-idea better, same would go for Bretonnian enchantress on unicorn.

ps .. the two units aren't really thought about in detail .. just the two main statements "an improved driving cannon" and "improved flying reiksguard" are the base.

I think the stats for the Steamtank and GriffonRIDER (I´ll change that name) are quite ok, but as I said, it all depends on the things we´ll experience during playtesting, these are just a base for the first wave of stats.

I understand that you don´t want to have the Pegasus and Griffon as a monster, because they should be used as a mount (the cIV version for that would be a Rider, just like the Griffon Rider. the thing is, we have no models for such units, as of now, but I think it shouldn´t be a problem to get a unit on the Pegasus, or give a mounted unit the wings.

I don´t know if we can do the "upgrade thing" with mounts for units for the next release - if not I personally would like to have the Pegasus in and it doesn´t have to be a "Monster", just use your imagination and you´ll have a champion, mounted on it ;) It just replaces the Monster Units that other civs would get in that Age.

I really dont mind the pegasus as a monster now that i think about it. perhaps make it a 'herd' ('flock'??) of pegasi and have them all stampeding and swooping on frightened enemies.
Or do what DJ said and replace it with 'ogre mercinaries'...

A Pegasusknight is really no problem. The model is finished in about five minutes nifediting. I just don't have the time right now for skinning.
A Griffonrider is another thing though this will require a new model I fear.

to be honest i think a new griffon would be good, this one is nice, but it's wings are too small in proportion to its body.;)

to be honest i think a new griffon would be good, this one is nice, but it's wings are too small in proportion to its body.;)

I got a game named Heroes of Might and Magic 4. It's a turn-based game in a fantasy world close to Warhammer. Ingame combats got very nice figures we could use (a beautyful griffon and greater daemon for example). Is it possible to use units from that game as a starting point for this mod?

What do i have to check to find out if it's possible?

I have that game too, its awsome hey:D;)
im not sure if we could use models from HoMM4 though. we would have to ask one of our artists if it is posible, but i doubt it.

We could use the griffon from that as a template to work off, but then again we can just use the WH miniature of the Griffon to do that.

well, dont know, you should find out which file formats they are in :P but i doubt that we can use them...

exactly what i was thinking seZ

2cc
I'm not really an Empire entheusiast, but I don't like the way halflings are used by the Empire.

I feel halflings could be a resource.

They count as a town.
And are required for halfling scouts.

(Maybe food/slaves resource (or goodyhut) for orks, etc. IF resources can be variable for different civs.)

Empire can build both normal and halfling scouts.
Halflings don't have animal defence bonus, but are invisible and have forest defence.

How is that?

I don't want them as ressource but using them as invisibles and have normal scouts and hunter as well could be ok. I don't think a few extra halflings will overpower the empire(and I noticed btw currently the empire isn't doing well in AI games so they could use some more extrastuff).

i like the invisible and forest bonus :)

Hmm.
Okay maybe not a resource as such...but the Moot is a singular/insular occurence in fantasy.
Maybe a bonus that is revealed by a goodyhut?

Halflings are not like goblins everywhere where a mushroom can be found.
Perhaps the Moot could be a wonder, that produces a Moot-Improvement somewhere inside the borders of a civ building the wonder.

(This could be mirrored by Gnomes, Centaurs, Beornite villages and similar minor ally races for some other civs.)

I have always loved the little cozy holes in the ground.
Great warrens for my ratties. ;)

LMAO the moot isnt really part of the empire its a seperate political enitity inside the empire they have a vote on the council of electors they are an allly not a vassal of the empire... as to its importance to the empire... about nil they dont do anything they probably represent a burden on the empire, they need to be defended and they dont pay tax, provide soldiers or do anything else useful.. apart from donating food to the emperor... thats all they do...

a wonder would be the best way to go about it..

(and i am an Empire buff)

As you probably know, a new edition of the empire has just emerged. Although I don't know the details I do know a few things about the changes:

All core units are general 1 point cheaper.

The hero/lord join has been improved, making empire characters actualy worth it.

Outriders have been added. They are basicaly pistoliers with (repeater) handguns. Nasty.

I think that a few more 'ulric' themed units now exist, like priest of ulric and foot knights of the white wolf.

because of the new empireness, should we remake some of their modles? (mainly the heroes?) i know that would be a big ask, especiallay at this point.

we might also have to start thinking about the new army list and making the mod work with that...

because of the new empireness, should we remake some of their modles? (mainly the heroes?) i know that would be a big ask, especiallay at this point.

we might also have to start thinking about the new army list and making the mod work with that...

Hey slow down! Just means some extraunits maybe that's all.

maybe. ive got the latest White Dwarf magazine with the new Empire units names:

Empire Lords:
Empire General
Templar grand Master
Arch Lector of Sigmar
Wizard Lord

Empire Heroes:
Empire Captain
Warrior Priests of Sigmar
Master Engineer

Empire Core Units:
Empire Swordsmen
Empire Spearmen
Empire Halberdiers
Empire Handgunners
Empire Crossbowmen

Empire Special Units:
Empire Mortar
Empire Great Cannon
Empire Greatswords
Empire Pistoliers
Empire Outriders
Knightly Orders
Inner Circle Knights

Empire Rare Units:
Flaggelant Warbands
Helblaster
Helstorm Rocket Battery
Steam Tank

Check here (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/catalog/default.htm) for the new modles

the army is almost exactly the same... the only new additions are hte Arch Lector of Sigmar (allready in Religion), Helstorm Rocket Battery (Which sucks majorly...), Empire Outriders (which suck...) thats me...

I dont like the Helstorm Rocket.. well because the hellblaster does it better, i dont like Outriders because there to expensive to bother using in anything but the largest game...

Those are the only new models you need for the army they look pretty much the same...

Oh and Empire Heros still suck... they always really have in terms of combat (but then i dont use them for that, there only good at killing normal soldiers... bugger duels) and because of there points cost (they are still very expensive for what is essentially a crappy hero class anyways.. there are heros better than our lords...

Whats the helstoem Rocket battery? never heard of it before.

the helstoem Rocket battery is brand new. heres and excerpt:
"This beauty delivers incendery death from above, in a similar, (but infinately more destructive) way to a mortar. Sure, getting it on target is hard, but any unit hit by the Rocket Batterybetter have life insurance... because the next thing theyll be seeing is Morr."

@masada: if the empire sucks so much, why do you play it??? ;) (jk this is a rhetorical question.)

Any similarity to an organgun?

nope more similar to the Chaos Dwarf rocket thingy.. just not quite as complex to shoot...

I dont play the Empire for heros.. your silly if you do alot of empire players know our heros are a joke.. but we put up with it..

Who else can get steam cannons, hell blasters, cannons (thats not unique.. but), mortars, pistolers and the good old infantry of the empire...

This problably isn't the right place, but I think I've discovered a new trend in GW tactics. Everytime they release a new army book, they make it slightly better than all the previous army books. The main way of doing this is to make everything very slightly too cheap. That way, people flock to it in order to have the best army. As well as that, it means that over time armies get slightly bigger, and so people have to spend more money to get a 2000 point army.

The final proof of this is how the cost of the normal infantry men dropped by 1 point in the new edition of the Empire.

Also notice how hero's became really powerfull and expensive when they increased the size of models.
I guess it was to disguise the fact there were still relatively few models out and they did not want to lose money. :)
So they made special characters so uber powerfull, one could barely play without them.
They sell the characters in single blisters, for a (relatively speaking) exorbitant price.

yeah its getting more expensive to buy GM minitures... my army has as a standard a steam tank... it was expensive to buy but it represents a saving if i were to convert it to other infantry.. the same could be said of artillery (mortars, cannons and hellblasters) i can get 3 for the cost of a regimental boxed set.. and they quite often cost a fair few points more..

I play empire on the cheap :D

Imagine all goblin armies... there great to play (i know) but very very godammed expensive..

(i wont be buyiny a hellstorm rocket battery because its in a box $55 down the drain.. when i can get 2 cannons for $18 each..)

except that the helstorm rocket is in the same box as the helblaster... but you can only make one from all the bits and not the other... so i guess you WOULD buy it, you just wouldnt assemble it :p

is it? lol i own all the hellblasters i need... 3 :D only ever used them all in a game once and that was a big game :D

do we need new buttons for the new empire units?

the only new unit the silly rocket thingy

the Empire General is just the Elector count.. wouldnt bother changing it...

Arch Lector of Sigmar is allready in the religions part..

Outriders well i guess they need a button...