The first thing i noticed after starting Civ 4 up is that the ad for 2k games was very choppy.When i got to the main menu i was happy to see the audio working and the frames going at a steady pace.

I then started a game up on standerd map size with 6 AI.As

in the game I found the audio never worked expet for the qutoes after researching a techonolgy. The animations of the the units were slow but bearble. Leaderheads screens were propbably the worst taking a few seconds on the intro animations.

I had all the graphics on low.

this is on a 1.8GHz G5 with 512 MB DDR SDRAM

Does anyone know if there will be a patch to fix the audio??

Little more detail would benefit the info pool. Which G5 (iMac, dual cpu tower?) are we talking and importantly, what video card do you have? Only 512mb of RAM I'm sure is putting the hurt on you though.

Far as patches go, well, we all assume there will be patches for actual bugs but the game's hot off the golden master so we don't really know what's a bug and what's just the computers groaning under the strain.

I ran it flawlessly on a 512 mb RAM PC and similar processor. The difference is the card.

And the OS. 512 MB is barely enough to run OSX at all - for any sort of even vaugely demanding use, 1 GB is the absolute minimum for any sort of decent performance.

Agh, it seems we are awaiting the first person with a good performance with Civ 4.

I guess the people who have good performance are way too busy playing to come here and tell us ... assuming they exist ;).

I have a G4 dual 1.3 with a Radeon 9800 pro 256MB vram and 1.12 GB system ram.

It is slow but playable. Espescially on the smaller maps. I have played on small, tiny and dual. I doubt that it will be playable on larger maps. I also have the sound issues that everyone else has. It has not crashed on me yet.

it's a G5 imac with a radeon 9600

well anyway the audio is mostly working now. There is still no sounds that go with animations(worker digging, battles, great people, missionaries,etc.,etc.)

I think the sound issues are a bug. reminds me of when civ3 came out for mac they had the same problems. I know there are battle sounds etc. cause they exist in the sounds folder. Seems like this is just another hack job by aspyr. They always release buggy games at first and take forever to patch them. i bet the speed will increase too with a patch. Seems like the graphics are implemented poorly. Its not like this game is very graphics intensive. It is turned based for crying out loud.

I think it *is* graphics intensive. Firaxis chose to base the game on a 3D graphics engine that is more at home in a 1st person shooter than in a turn-based strategy game. Aspyr just had to work with what they were given, so that problem, at least, should not be laid at their door.

Firaxis screwed up then. they shoulda started from scratch with their own 3d engine.

Firaxis screwed up then. they shoulda started from scratch with their own 3d engine.
That might have actually made a better product, but it would've taken until 2009 to get it out the door (and 2011 to get it ported).

... by which time all the video hardware in the world could have handled what they've prduced now :p They're just a little ahead of their time, that's all :mischief:

... by which time all the video hardware in the world could have handled what they've prduced now :p They're just a little ahead of their time, that's all :mischief:


I guess what I really need is a new machine. I wish apple would hurry up and get the intel towers ready.:crazyeye:

You and me both :) It's my birthday in August. I'm counting on the WWDC to release a Conroe tower to die for.

I guess what I really need is a new machine. I wish apple would hurry up and get the intel towers ready.:crazyeye:
I'm holding out [at the very least] for a "Core Duo T2700" Yonah in the next rev of 15" MacBook Pros.

And what about two-button track pads? I mean, gee whiz – Apple has finally seen the light enough to start offering two-button mice, why not a two-button track pad? And for that matter, what about an integrated keypad on the 17" model? Not like they're hurting for space. Man, if they offered the integrated keypad on the 17", I'd... I'd... I'm not sure what I'd do, but I'd definitely pick one up!

I'm holding out [at the very least] for a "Core Duo T2700" Yonah in the next rev of 15" MacBook Pros.

And what about two-button track pads? I mean, gee whiz – Apple has finally seen the light enough to start offering two-button mice, why not a two-button track pad? And for that matter, what about an integrated keypad on the 17" model? Not like they're hurting for space. Man, if they offered the integrated keypad on the 17", I'd... I'd... I'm not sure what I'd do, but I'd definitely pick one up!

Yeah, a big keypad on the 17" would be nice. Bit it would definitely add to the weight.

BTW, the Mighty Mouse is still technically a one-button mouse, but it has multi-button functionality. Similarly, with the Macbooks and Macbook Pros, you can set the trackpad to recognize a right-click using two fingers.

I have a dual 2.5 G5 with 2 GBs of RAM and a 128 MB 9600 XT graphics card. I also have a 2.16 GHz MacBook Pro with 2 GBs of RAM and a 256 MB XT1600 video card.

My first game is continents on a standard sized world. There ended up being 6 AI civilizations, but something happened to one that was next to me. :D I have made it to about 1400AD switching between the two machines. The MacBook Pro handles the game without any problem. It runs as well as the PC demo did on it in XP. The G5 seems to have enough processor power, it takes about the same time when the AI is moving, but the video card seems to struggle. Things look fine but the refresh rate is low and there are some big laggy moments. The opening sequence in the credits is also very jerky. On the other hand I have not been getting blown away like I would be if it was a multi-player FPS.

I hear Leonard Nimoy read the quotes when a technology is discovered, but that is the only sound that works. I will sometimes hear the first little bit of sound when a religion or something like that is discovered, but you can tell it is not the complete sound. I once heard some battle noise right after I had been adjusting the sound in the System Preferences, but it was broken up. I definitely remember this same thing happening with other ports.

At some point I'll get around to trying it on a G4 powerbook and a dual core Intel Mini.

I forgot that the G5 was running at 1600 x 1200. I backed that off to 1024 x 768 and it really didn't make any difference.

Yeah, a big keypad on the 17" would be nice. Bit it would definitely add to the weight.

BTW, the Mighty Mouse is still technically a one-button mouse, but it has multi-button functionality. Similarly, with the Macbooks and Macbook Pros, you can set the trackpad to recognize a right-click using two fingers.

Huh? You wanna explain that to me? How is it a "one button" mouse with multi-button functionality?

I think that's a slight exaggeration. It obviously has two sensors and is therefore a two button mouse. But you have to have the left finger down for it to accept a right finger click. Same sort of deal with the latest track pads, but they can so it anywhere on their surface.

I'm on a MacBook Pro 17", 2.16Ghz, 7200RPM drive, and 2GB of RAM.

Graphically the game has run well for me so far - large world, 8 AIs, etc - but I'm having the same sound problems as others. I get music, but no battle sounds.

I think it *is* graphics intensive. Firaxis chose to base the game on a 3D graphics engine that is more at home in a 1st person shooter than in a turn-based strategy game. Aspyr just had to work with what they were given, so that problem, at least, should not be laid at their door.

Not to be picky, but isn't Aspyr the publisher and Firaxis the developer? And the developer who did the port 2k?

Hell I'm just confused, someone just tell me who is who.

Aspyr is a publisher, but also has in-house development personell. Firaxis developed the original game. Aspyr developed the Mac port of the game and also is publishing it.

JoAT

And the developer who did the port 2k?
And to close the loop, 2k Games is the PC publisher ;)

If your system is like mine, you can tell who ported it to the mac just by sitting through the opening movies. Aspyr's little blurb is the only one the sound works on.

I don't have Civ 4 yet, (I live in the UK). I do read the reviews posted on imgmagazine.com and read the review there on Civ 4 (done it says on a beta copy) The reviewer makes no remarks whatsoever with regard to sound issues or lockups or crashes.

I have emailed the reviewer asking whether he had any problems which were not reported in his review. I did this for research to determine that if he did not have issues, then the issues have appeared in builds after his beta copy.

There must be some beta testers of this game who read these fora. I am aware of non-disclosure agreements. I don't feel that they cover public interest matters. If there are beta teaters of this game, then fess-up and say whether these problems existed in their copies or not.

Aspyr beta tester agreements are lethal weapons. I wasn't a beta tester, as I live outside the US, but I've seen their agreement and I wouldn't want to be caught giving any related information out unless I was seriously independently wealthy.

And to close the loop, 2k Games is the PC publisher ;)

Picky, picky, picky!!!

:crazyeye:

JoAT

Aspyr beta tester agreements are lethal weapons. I wasn't a beta tester, as I live outside the US, but I've seen their agreement and I wouldn't want to be caught giving any related information out unless I was seriously independently wealthy.

Yeah, well, I'm sure some gamers' lawyers will have a field day, too, if this game was knowingly shipped with all the issues it has.

Hell, maybe that's what gamers need to do: File multiple, class-action lawsuits against publishers who have a habit of selling beta-stage programs as final products to the public. That might put the fear of God into the publishers.

More than anything else, I'm just *stunned* at the issues Civ IV Mac is having. Absolutely, whacked-upside-the-head stunned. My God, even the latest iMacs are having issues handling Civ IV. :crazyeye:

Gatekeeper

Sure, beat Aspyr up if the game is really that bad (I still don't have a copy, so can't comment). Just don't ask the beta testers to put their heads on the block for you.

well, I have a reply from the author of the review on imgmagazine site. mega up to him.

he tested with a pre-release version on a dual 2GHz G5. (no more details of specs). Quite fairly he says that there were a few minor irritations, but otherwise all was well, and NO sound issues.

I have invited him to let Aspyr know that the version he had had no sound issues. So in a collective spirit of harmony, just as Brad would encourage us to behave, I hope that this will assist Aspyr in locating just where the sound problems crept in.

This is just simple detective work aimed exclusively to assist our friends at Aspyr. Just remember how genuinely honourable Brad has been in his dealings with us in the past, and how we have been positively encouraged by Glenda herself to submit any helpful information we have to assist in solving their problems.

I am sure that Aspyr will want to quickly solve issues with one of their top games.

Sure, beat Aspyr up if the game is really that bad (I still don't have a copy, so can't comment). Just don't ask the beta testers to put their heads on the block for you.

Where did I say anything about beta testers putting their heads on the block, hmm? Oh, yes, that's right: nowhere. I'm talking about people who have dropped $50 or $60 for the game — IOW, the game-buying general public.

That said, I wasn't particularly serious about the lawyer bit (although I'm quite sure some folks have entertained the idea more seriously while trying to play the game). From what I understand of Aspyr and its personnel — particularly the programmers — they're a pretty good outfit. Unfortunately, there are less-savory outfits out there who, IMO, do unethical things to their customers all in the name of meeting deadlines and pleasing stockholders.

Gatekeeper

I am aware of non-disclosure agreements. I don't feel that they cover public interest matters.
Then you feel wrong. An NDA is a binding, legally enforceable contract. Period.

Where did I say anything about beta testers putting their heads on the block, hmm? Oh, yes, that's right: nowhere.
Sorry if you thought I was attacking you, but I was responding to There must be some beta testers of this game who read these fora. I am aware of non-disclosure agreements. I don't feel that they cover public interest matters. If there are beta teaters of this game, then fess-up and say whether these problems existed in their copies or not.

and perhaps Beamup should read my supportive additional posts.

Simple polite and rather logical investigation by myself has narrowed down the issue for Aspyr within 15 minutes. I have no idea whether this thread will be read by Aspyr, I will not be emailing Aspyr at this time.

I have run and taken part in beta testing for certain publishers with NDA both in the UK and USA. When an issue has arisen, then the coordinator of the test is online to each tester wanting information. It narrows down the problem. The fess-up remark should have contained "fess up to your beta test coordinator right away" information such as "I definitely had no sound problems" or "i had a wonderful gaming experience" is of vital importance. This allows the good build numbers to be known for certain. And to determine exactly which if any OS changes have fouled matters up.

For all we know, Aspyr may already know the causes. Glenda seems to suggest in her posting that the kernel panics are also to be found in other games at certain screen resolutions. (should be a warning then on their website)

I got fobbed off for ages with screen redraw problems related to drivers issues before they were finally acknowledged by Aspyr (I had to "disclose" my full credentials to them to convince them that I ain't an amateur) and I got a personal solution

No sane person would break a NDA. And I would not encourage anyone to do so. I am British, we must all be patient. I have no intention of parting with £45 till the matter is resolved. ( I am prepared to accept a free copy to assist in testing).

and perhaps Beamup should read my supportive additional posts.
I did. Your statement I replied to is simply highly inaccurate.

And if you want to claim you didn't mean what you said very clearly and explicitly, well, I'm not interested in arguing about it.

So I promised myself I'd take some time away from the forums after the Civ4 release to give myself a break, but Glenda mentioned today that there was a lot of discussion about Civ4, so let me address a few things.

First, the sound issues. We didn't have any major problems with sound in the beta, although apparently the final release is suffering badly. Not sure what happened there, but we're trying to figure out a) what happened and b) how it got by us like it did. (FWIW, there were 3 developers on Mac Civ4 full-time - one dedicated to audio, so resist the urge to throw *all* your stones at me.)

Second, performance. I don't suppose this is a real shocker to anyone who has been following the Civ4 discussion from before the release. From what I gather, those running Civ4 in Boot Camp and those again running it on the same Intel Mac under OSX are seeing roughly identical performance (unless I'm missing a thread). This tells me we're in the ballpark with the PC version, so I'm OK with that. If someone is seeing a radical departure from the PC performance, I'm interested in hearing more - brad@aspyr.com.

That being said, Civ4 is a bit of a VRAM hog. If you increase the game resolution and the globe detail, you're going to really stress the VRAM on some cards. When that happens, you'll see a) bad performance and b) a corrupted globe view. We fought with this throughout development, and we'll continue to fight with it as we go forward. Civ4 should default to reasonable (read: low) settings to try and mitigate this.

Third, I've heard that under 10.4.7, some people are seeing kernel panics on Intel Macs with the ATI cards (the iMacs, mainly). We didn't have time to QA Civ4 against 10.4.7 but this is a real issue. For one, the initial 10.4.7 release (the first day) shipped with busted OpenGL drivers, and this was subsequently corrected in a later 10.4.7 re-release. We don't have any reliable feedback from end users on if the problems with 10.4.7 are happening in the "broken" 10.4.7 release or the "fixed" release, so our support guys are trying to nail this one down. We haven't been able to reproduce any of the kernel panics here in the QA lab yet.

One final, important thing: if you are having problems, please mention two things: what version of OSX you are using (remember above that 10.4.7 post-dates our testing so this is important) and what Mac you have (try to be as specific as you can : Intel vs. PPC, iMac vs. MacBook for example).

If your system is like mine, you can tell who ported it to the mac just by sitting through the opening movies. Aspyr's little blurb is the only one the sound works on.

Now that is interesting. The key difference here is that the Aspyr movie is played directly by QuickTime in a different manner than the other movies (which go through the game engine). Even so, the other movies should have sound, they're not doing anything fancy.

What version of OSX are you using?

The big problem for me (besides the sound) is how slow and choppy the gameplay is with all the settings at their lowest and on a tiny globe... even though I have duo 1.8ghz 1gb ram geforce 5200... it seems that this particular video card just isn't enough to run it.

Brad,

I have posted tickets at Aspyr support but haven't been asked about which system I'm using yet. (Although I have been given some advice to fix audio problems on Quake 4 and asked whether I am sure I'm using a MacBook Pro! Sheesh!)

But, FYI, I have had complete lockups of my computer while playing (so no crash reporter logs or anything were generated). Not a kernel panic, not a crash, complete lockup requiring power-off to escape. I am running the 'fixed' 10.4.7. I initially downloaded the Intel delta update through Software Update but after reading about the OpenGL issues I downloaded the Combo updater and reinstalled. This has been happening with full screen mode - the lack of scrolling in windowed mode is a real pain - but will try windowed mode again to see if I get any lockups while doing that.

Other than that, the game plays smoothly with no obvious graphical issues on maximum settings (some minor tearing is obvious in the opening movie battle scenes when it is panning fast though).

FYI: I am using a 15" MacBook Pro, 2.0GHz, 2GB RAM, 256MB VRAM

The big problem for me (besides the sound) is how slow and choppy the gameplay is with all the settings at their lowest and on a tiny globe... even though I have duo 1.8ghz 1gb ram geforce 5200... it seems that this particular video card just isn't enough to run it.

Yeah, the GeForce 5200 is - to be blunt - a pretty bad video card for gaming. I'd heard that nVidia's motto for the 5200 was "DX9 for $79". In other words, it's a low-end card that can claim some of the latest specs on paper, but can't really pull it off in practice.

Brad,

some people have been reporting that running the game in a window yields a significant increase in performance. Do you have any idea why this might be the case? Just curious.

some people have been reporting that running the game in a window yields a significant increase in performance. Do you have any idea why this might be the case? Just curious.

I've only read that it prevents the kernel panics. I haven't seen posts about windowed mode being faster. That would shock me if true; I can't begin to imagine why that would be faster.

I think it "feels" faster... and it might be a resolution thing. I ran the game in a window and ran it full screen. I'm not sure what people mean by "faster"... I didn't notice any significant increase, and both processors were pegged either way.

I've played up to the 1800's on one game, and other than slow movements and a bit of graphic lag, the game runs okay.

I just wish it had sounds.

Third, I've heard that under 10.4.7, some people are seeing kernel panics on Intel Macs with the ATI cards (the iMacs, mainly). We didn't have time to QA Civ4 against 10.4.7 but this is a real issue. For one, the initial 10.4.7 release (the first day) shipped with busted OpenGL drivers, and this was subsequently corrected in a later 10.4.7 re-release. We don't have any reliable feedback from end users on if the problems with 10.4.7 are happening in the "broken" 10.4.7 release or the "fixed" release, so our support guys are trying to nail this one down. We haven't been able to reproduce any of the kernel panics here in the QA lab yet.
I was able to come up with a series of steps that would 100% guarantee a kernel panic on my system: Intel iMac 2.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 256 MB Radeon x1600 video card, running 10.4.7 (and Software Update says there are no updates available, so I think the "fixed" release - System Profiler says 10.4.7 8J2135).

- Run in full screen mode at max (1680x1050) resolution.
- Turn the graphics level to High, set AA multisamples to 4.
- Start a new game as a civ without Hunting, and research it.
- Build a Scout.
- Attempt to move said Scout.

For me, this was a guaranteed, completely reproducible, kernel panic. I've put a sample crash report in the spoiler block.

Hope this might be useful...

panic(cpu 1 caller 0x0019CADF): Unresolved kernel trap (CPU 1, Type 14=page fault), registers:
CR0: 0x80010033, CR2: 0x29731130, CR3: 0x00d1d000, CR4: 0x000006a0
EAX: 0x000002f0, EBX: 0x2973112c, ECX: 0x00000000, EDX: 0x0000070a
ESP: 0x29731130, EBP: 0x13e73c88, ESI: 0x000006fc, EDI: 0x1ebb112c
EFL: 0x00010206, EIP: 0x0058c17a, CS: 0x00000008, DS: 0x13e70010

Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x13e73668 : 0x128b5e (0x3bc46c 0x13e7368c 0x131bbc 0x0)
0x13e736a8 : 0x19cadf (0x3c18e4 0x1 0xe 0x3c169c)
0x13e73758 : 0x197c7d (0x13e7376c 0x13e73c88 0x58c17a 0x48)
0x13e73764 : 0x58c17a (0x48 0x10 0x25e0010 0x13e70010)
0x13e73c88 : 0x56d8ab (0x2a94000 0x13e73cf0 0x3012ca4 0x3012ca8)
0x13e73d18 : 0x3a1e39 (0x2a94000 0x1 0x13e73d4c 0x13e73d48)
0x13e73d58 : 0x3a5343 (0x2a94000 0x1 0x2540620 0x1)
0x13e73d88 : 0x189fe5 (0x2a94000 0x1 0x2540620 0x3012cc0)
0x13e73dd8 : 0x12b389 (0x3012c8c 0x3009ba0 0x13e73e18 0x11dd90)
0x13e73e18 : 0x124902 (0x3012c00 0x2518550 0x2ce7064 0x0)
0x13e73f28 : 0x193034 (0x13e73f54 0x0 0x0 0x0)
0x13e73fd8 : 0x19814b (0x269a318 0x269a318 0x2973112c 0x29731130) No mapping exists for frame pointer
Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0xbfffef08
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.ATIRadeonX1000(4.3.2)@0x565000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.0)@0x52c000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.4.3)@0x53b000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.4.3)@0x556000

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.7.1: Wed Jun 7 16:19:56 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.9.72.obj~2/RELEASE_I386

Model: iMac4,1, BootROM IM41.0039.B00, 2 processors, Intel Core Duo, 2 GHz, 1 GB
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1600, ATY,RadeonX1600, PCIe, 256 MB
Memory Module: DIMM1/BANK 1, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, 667 MHz
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x14E4, 0x89), 103.2 (3.120.28.3)
Bluetooth: Version 1.7.5f10, 2 service, 1 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
Network Service: AirPort, AirPort, en1
Serial ATA Device: Maxtor 6L250M0, 233.76 GB
Parallel ATA Device: MATSHITADVD-R UJ-846, 2.08 GB
USB Device: Built-in iSight, Micron, Up to 480 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: Bluetooth HCI, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: IR Receiver, Apple Computer, Inc., Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA

Hope this might be useful...

Oh yes, thank you VERY much!

I'm really, really curious to see if people running 10.4.6 on Intel are seeing these panics on the ATI cards (i.e. the iMacs). I'd be willing to bet we were shanghaied by 10.4.7 on this one, since I know I ran it a lot on my iMac under 10.4.5 and 10.4.6 with no problems, and I did build scouts. ;-)

Edit: I've let the ATI guys know about this, and will report back here the exact moment we have some news on this. Please bear with us - hopefully we'll be able to work around this once we know what's going wrong.

Intel iMac 2.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 256 MB Radeon x1600 video card, runninI was able to come up with a series of steps that would 100% guarantee a kernel panic on my system: g 10.4.7 (and Software Update says there are no updates available, so I think the "fixed" release - System Profiler says 10.4.7 8J2135).


Hey Beamup,

Just a heads up. It looks like you don't have the fixed release. If it is fixed, your system profiler should read 8J2135a. For some reason, it appears that Software Update doesn't register the "fixed" release as an update. You have to physically go to apple.com and download it.

I should be getting my Civ IV copy in the mail tomorrow. Like I said, I have the same system as Beamup, except I have 2 GB of RAM. Once I get it installed I'll report back on how it is working.

Just a heads up. It looks like you don't have the fixed release. If it is fixed, your system profiler should read 8J2135a. For some reason, it appears that Software Update doesn't register the "fixed" release as an update. You have to physically go to apple.com and download it.

Interesting. I managed to get the borked version on my Intel iMac as well.

FWIW, the correct version is here:

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosxupdate1047intel.html

Also, looks like it only applies to Intel Macs. PPC Macs didn't have a re-release of 10.4.7.

If those of you with kernel panics can confirm one way or the other which version of 10.4.7 you are using, that would be great.

Just a heads up. It looks like you don't have the fixed release. If it is fixed, your system profiler should read 8J2135a. For some reason, it appears that Software Update doesn't register the "fixed" release as an update. You have to physically go to apple.com and download it.
Thanks for the note - kind of ridiculous on Apple's part, really.

I have now installed 8J2135a. And, now that I have, the procedure outlined above no longer results in a kernel panic. I haven't tested in enough detail to see whether it solved them all, or just that one particular case, but it looks promising. More extensive testing to come tomorrow.

I have now installed 8J2135a. And, now that I have, the procedure outlined above no longer results in a kernel panic. I haven't tested in enough detail to see whether it solved them all, or just that one particular case, but it looks promising. More extensive testing to come tomorrow.

If it turns out that the bulk of these Intel problems with Civ4 are caused by the original 10.4.7, I'll be both happy and angry at the same time. :)

As I understand the situation only the Delta installer of 10.4.7 had problems because of the OpenGL omission. (This includes the Delta light version that many people would seen through Software Update if they were already fully patched.) Those who used the Combo updater were not affected.

My freezes/panics have not been linked to anything obvious or repeatable and I have been able to continue the game to completion after loading the most recent autosave. For example, one time it froze in the middle of flashing <Press RETURN to end turn> so it is unlikely that I was doing anything specific to trigger it. (Using 10.4.7 Combo updater and, presumably, the unborked 10.4.7 - don't know what the System Profiler will tell me once I get home.)

As I understand the situation only the Delta installer of 10.4.7 had problems because of the OpenGL omission. (This includes the Delta light version that many people would seen through Software Update if they were already fully patched.) Those who used the Combo updater were not affected.

If that is true, then that makes it extremely difficult for our support guys to deal with the problem, as a good 10.4.7 could have the same build # as a bad one.

If you feel up to it, could you install the "fixed" build of 10.4.7 and see if that actually makes a difference for you? I'd sleep easier knowing one way or the other.

If you feel up to it, could you install the "fixed" build of 10.4.7 and see if that actually makes a difference for you? I'd sleep easier knowing one way or the other.

Sure - but it'll probably be the weekend before I can give any further feedback.

But in the meantime I'll poke around on the Apple discussion boards to find out if there is a better way to identify the problem (like looking at the version of the OpenGL files installed rather than the system build number).

Hmm. My new Intel iMac — 2GHZ, 2G RAM, 256MB VRAM (i.e. the latest model) — will be arriving within the next week or so. When I go to update the OS, because I'm sure it won't ship with 10.4.7, will it give me the corrupted version, or will have Apple fixed it so it downloads the unbroken version?

Gatekeeper

Hmm. My new Intel iMac — 2GHZ, 2G RAM, 256MB VRAM (i.e. the latest model) — will be arriving within the next week or so. When I go to update the OS, because I'm sure it won't ship with 10.4.7, will it give me the corrupted version, or will have Apple fixed it so it downloads the unbroken version?

Gatekeeper

You'll get the unborked version.

But in the meantime I'll poke around on the Apple discussion boards to find out if there is a better way to identify the problem (like looking at the version of the OpenGL files installed rather than the system build number).

Yeah, wish I'd saved off my iMac profile before updating again.

My 10.4.7 "a" build reports the OpenGL framework as version 1.4.10.5.0 (click on OpenGL in the Frameworks section of the profiler to get the longer Get Info version string), dated 7/5/06 10:12 pm. If yours is earlier or has a different version, I'd certainly start thinking about opening a bottle of champagne. ;)

I've been playing non-stop for three days on a 1.83GH Intel iMac with 1 meg of RAM, and on a 2.0GH Intel MacBook with 2 Megs of RAM, both purchased new about six weeks ago, with updated OS's.

First, thanks Brad for enlightening us about the story-behind-the-troubles. Second -- and I know I'll be in the minority here -- thanks for releasing the game early, even though it obviously isn't done. I've had more fun playing it than I would have had continuing to wait for it, which was getting excruciating.

My problems are these. First, the sound is messed up, which is already well-documented by others, but is not limited to an absence of battle sounds. Second, the battle animations are seriously impaired -- sometimes the opponents simply stare at each other until one disappears. Third, the panning is choppy, which is well-documented by others. Fourth, the animations between moves are seriously impaired -- for example, instead of walking between squares, my units occasionally slide, like chess pieces. Finally, I have experienced something like a memory leak, where the ice bergs and units turn into black silhouettes, requiring a save-and-restart. This occurs on both the iMac and MacBook, but is worst on the MacBook in HotSeat mode.

If this stuff gets fixed in a patch, then I'm fine. But if the battle and travel animations are gone in the Mac version, that will be really disappointing, and one of the truly sublime aspects of Civ4 will have been lost.
-- M.U.L.E. Master

I've been playing non-stop for three days on a 1.83GH Intel iMac with 1 meg of RAM, and on a 2.0GH Intel MacBook with 2 Megs of RAM, both purchased new about six weeks ago, with updated OS's.


The MacBook is not supported - the graphics card is below what Civ4 really needs - so I'm mainly interested in what you're seeing on the Intel iMac. From a performance standpoint, you really shouldn't be having any sluggishness on that iMac, presuming you haven't jacked up all the settings to their maximum first. Are all these issues happening on the iMac? I'm seeing unit animations here on mine, and it's the 1.83 GHz model.

Yeah, wish I'd saved off my iMac profile before updating again.

My 10.4.7 "a" build reports the OpenGL framework as version 1.4.10.5.0 (click on OpenGL in the Frameworks section of the profiler to get the longer Get Info version string), dated 7/5/06 10:12 pm. If yours is earlier or has a different version, I'd certainly start thinking about opening a bottle of champagne. ;)
My version is 1.4.10.5.0 although the last modified date is earlier (1/7/06 8:29AM - Australian date convention ;) ) - but I doubt that it is really different because I think that's just when I installed it because many of my other frameworks and applications also have that time. (No 'a' in by system build info.)

Now to find out what the version in the borked install is.

I have a 2.3 dual ghz g5 most recent mac os. Only problems i have had at the moment is movement, combat, and sound.

Sound is well documented so i trust this will get fixed.

For movement though is i move my units one space, i get the full movement animation and can see them. If drag out a long path then i get instant choppy movement without quick moves active.

For combat some of the units just disappear so i dont know if they are dead or not. Anyway its a great game and i will have fun with it.:goodjob:

From a performance standpoint, you really shouldn't be having any sluggishness on that iMac, presuming you haven't jacked up all the settings to their maximum first. Are all these issues happening on the iMac? I'm seeing unit animations here on mine, and it's the 1.83 GHz model.
Well, I can certainly report that I have no sluggishness of any kind on mine - even with everything maxed out. Performance is absolutely beautiful for me, other than sound and the hopefully-completely-fixed-now kernel panics.

playing Civ4 on a iMac G5 1.8 with a bit over 1GB of memory . . .
no sound. seems to be a general complaint. i also think the game is a bit slow. so far it's playable, but i can't say is runs 'smooth'. it doesn't. i have a first generation iMac G5, so it's loaded with a not so good videocard . . .

on the bright side: it's a new game! i feel like i played my first Civ-game. so many things to learn . . . .

Now that is interesting. The key difference here is that the Aspyr movie is played directly by QuickTime in a different manner than the other movies (which go through the game engine). Even so, the other movies should have sound, they're not doing anything fancy.

What version of OSX are you using?

I was running 10.4.7. I see that on all of the machines I've tried it on. The one machine that still had 10.4.6 the sound worked fine on, and then it behaved like the rest after updating.

I always hear the quotes about the techs. When something happens in the game, like another civilization discovering a religion, I hear the start of the
sound but then it chokes. I never hear anything during battle. When an airport is made I here more of that sound than most things, I'm not sure if I hear the full thing. I never hear any music, but that doesn't surprise me as the first thing I do with any game is turn that off.

I tried it on my work G5, the sound for the opening movies played the first time through, but it didn't after that. I tried rebooting but that had no effect.

I was running 10.4.7. I see that on all of the machines I've tried it on. The one machine that still had 10.4.6 the sound worked fine on, and then it behaved like the rest after updating.

So you are saying that the sound worked normally for you in 10.4.6? It's definitely looking like we got the royal screwing with 10.4.7 and Civ4 if that's true.

So you are saying that the sound worked normally for you in 10.4.6? It's definitely looking like we got the royal screwing with 10.4.7 and Civ4 if that's true.

Yeah, thats what I figured. The rig that still had 10.4.6 on it was a 12" G4 powerbook that hadn't been updated as it has been replaced with a MBP, so I don't use it that much. I tried it because I figured that the timing of the update would have meant that it could have messed up the sound and you guys would have missed it. Since I would rather play on the machines that I have where the rest of the games works I went ahead and updated the G4 and the sound went away.

Hi,
I just installed Civ4 on my MacBook Pro 2.16 2 GB Ram Mac OS 10.4.7. I don't have sound issues, but my fans are running on full speed. Have you experienced the same? Even on Quake 4 the fans are not hearable...

Hi,
I just installed Civ4 on my MacBook Pro 2.16 2 GB Ram Mac OS 10.4.7. I don't have sound issues, but my fans are running on full speed. Have you experienced the same? Even on Quake 4 the fans are not hearable...

That seems to be common experience. It is pegging both cores (even on the main menu!). My MacBook Pro goes to 180%+ processor usage and 78C with the fans going flat out. I never knew that a menu could be that hard to program ;)

Good performance on 20" intel dual core imac 1.5 GB RAM

I have two copies of Civ IV, one for PC and one for Mac.

My PC is not that hot a 2.4Ghz Pentium, 512Mb Ram and 64Mb GeForce graphics card.

My Mac is a Powerbook G4 1.5Ghz, 1.25Gb Ram and 64Mb GeForce card.

Both systems play Civ IV, very choppy, only small maps. But the Mac is significantly worse. Considering the Powerbook and the PC are almost exactly the same processor and graphics cards, and the Mac has twice as much RAM I can only assume that Aspyr were unable to bring down the spec requirements in the transfer, shame really as I'm sure if they had more time a lot of us would be able to play a smooth version.

I do find it stupid how a year and a bit old, top of the line at the time powerbook cannot play a six month old game that a three year old pc can play.

I have two copies of Civ IV, one for PC and one for Mac.

My PC is not that hot a 2.4Ghz Pentium, 512Mb Ram and 64Mb GeForce graphics card.

My Mac is a Powerbook G4 1.5Ghz, 1.25Gb Ram and 64Mb GeForce card.

...Considering the Powerbook and the PC are almost exactly the same processor and graphics cards...

Graphics, yes. Processor, :eek: no!

The fact that Apple was forced to still sell a Mac with a G4 as their top-of-the-line portable just six months ago is the shame. There is a reason Apple switched to Intel...

Alexandr,

What settings/options are you running under?

I have your system but 2 gigs of RAM and the performance is wretched by the medieval era on a huge map. It's so jerky it's unreal and nothing seems to improve that.