I just managed to get three kernel panics in a row right at the beginning of the game. I have all graphical options set to high and turned antialiasing multisamples (whatever that might be) to both 2 and 4 rather than 0. I started playing the Mongols with Ghengis Khan as my leader. This gives you a scout as your starting unit. Pretty much immediately (although once after 2 turns) it would give me a kernel panic. Turned it back down to 0 for AAMS and no kernel panics so far. But moving those scouts around seemed to be a recipe for disaster.

Anyone else want to test it out? Set AAMS to 2 or 4 and start as the Mongols with Ghengis Khan and watch your computer crash and burn as you move the scouts around.

(Other info on my game setup - Terra, Standard size world, Temperate, Medium water, Chieftan difficulty... graphics on high with high quality textures and full screen. Computer is a MacBook Pro 2.0GHz with 256MB VRAM)

UPDATE: Oh yessiree Bob! Saved my game that had been fine for a number of turns (2500BC or thereabouts). Changed AAMS to 4 and restarted. Move those scouts and quicker than you can say "would you like fries with that?" it gives me a kernel panic.

Sounds like you've simply recreated the problem Beamup was seeing with the bad/"borked" 10.4.7 installation with the faulty OpenGL drivers. His was fixed by running the combo updater from Apple and getting the "a" build. From the sounds of you posts in the other thread, I think you have the "borked" update.

Go grab yourself the combo updater, run it, then try to recreate the kernel panic again...

JoAT

Nope - I used the Combo update which was meant to be unaffected.

I'll give the updated Delta a go just to be sure though.

That is indeed exactly what I was seeing (though I never isolated it between AAMS and graphics quality), and I found two ways to prevent the panics:

#1: Install the correct 10.4.7, using the current Delta (not combo!) updater. The current combo update may also work, but I used the current Delta.

#2: Run in a window.

Nope - I used the Combo update which was meant to be unaffected.

I'll give the updated Delta a go just to be sure though.

PLEASE DO! I'm really hoping this is the solution, and I'm anxious for some good news on this. :)

I just downloaded and installed the 10.4.7 Delta and have the 'a' build number. My OpenGL framework version number is the same as I had with the Combo updater.

It crashes just as regularly as before when I turn on AAMS. (I have a savefile I can send with details on reproducing the crash if you would like it Brad.)

Beamup - have you run full-screen since you patched? I suspect that its the full screen that is the problem, not the OpenGL as such.

Beamup - have you run full-screen since you patched? I suspect that its the full screen that is the problem, not the OpenGL as such.
Yes, I was able to run full-screen with 4 AAMS and High graphics quality without encountering my reproducible panic. I haven't yet had time to test thoroughly to see whether I encounter any others.

Yes, I was able to run full-screen with 4 AAMS and High graphics quality without encountering my reproducible panic. I haven't yet had time to test thoroughly to see whether I encounter any others.

Other things to duplicate my options that might be relevant: Low quality textures off, high quality terrain on, single unit graphics off...

Yep. Everything, and I mean everything, is maxed.

Hmm...

What machine are you using again?

Intel iMac 2.0 GHz, 1 MB RAM, 256 MB Radeon x1600.

MacBook Pro 15", 256MB VRAM, 2.0GHz, 2GB RAM

Shouldn't be that much difference between them. Oh well. No anti-aliasing multisamples for me for a while. What exactly does that do anyway?

It smooths out the edges of things.

According to a post on the IMG forums, the kernel panics are coming from swapping too much data on/off the video card memory. If you drop the textures down to medium, you can probably re-enable antialiasing. Ever since I did the 'fixed' 10.4.7 update and set everything to medium (with 2x AA) it has run very stable. Played for the better part of a day without a crash.

According to a post on the IMG forums, the kernel panics are coming from swapping too much data on/off the video card memory. If you drop the textures down to medium, you can probably re-enable antialiasing. Ever since I did the 'fixed' 10.4.7 update and set everything to medium (with 2x AA) it has run very stable. Played for the better part of a day without a crash.

I'll try a few variations on my setup to explore this. But...

That seems unlikely to be my particular problem. These are crashes related to the movement of a single scout unit right at the beginning of the game - half the screen is unexplored and blank. I have 256MB of VRAM which is as much as you can get in these Intel Macs at the moment - surely minimum specs aren't 512MB VRAM to play Civ IV?

UPDATE: It is the graphics quality being at high that is the killer (in combination with the AAMS and scout). I can have graphic quality on medium but then push render quality to high and turn on all the high quality check boxes in the right hand column of the options screen and it is fine. I don't know what is going on here because I thought that the graphic quality selector was actually just a quick way to get some defaults. But if I manually set all the other selectors to high while leaving the 'graphic quality' box on medium it is fine. I guess it is doing more than the sum of the other options combined.

UPDATE: It is the graphics quality being at high that is the killer (in combination with the AAMS and scout). I can have graphic quality on medium but then push render quality to high and turn on all the high quality check boxes in the right hand column of the options screen and it is fine. I don't know what is going on here because I thought that the graphic quality selector was actually just a quick way to get some defaults. But if I manually set all the other selectors to high while leaving the 'graphic quality' box on medium it is fine. I guess it is doing more than the sum of the other options combined.

Thanks for the info. The VRAM thing is separate from what you're seeing, definitely. An out of VRAM issue would manifest itself in Civ4 as garbage in the globe view, typically.

i had the exact same experience. with graphics completely max'd out - and screen resolution - the scout kills the OS

What system, OS version, and build are you using? (To find your build number, go to About This Mac and click on the version number.) With a couple more data points, we may be able to find a pattern...

Latest-greatest OS version - I keep it up to date - and Intel dual core iMac 20" 1.5 GB RAM

Latest-greatest OS version - I keep it up to date
So 10.4.7, but which build? In particular, do you have an "a" at the end of the build number? It's rather a critical question in this case - getting the fixed update, instead of the botched one, solved my kernel panics but not Skippy's. So it'd likely tell Brad quite a bit to know which version you've got.

In particular, people who are careful about keeping up-to-date are most likely to have the botched update, as it was replaced with the correct one later. And if you rely on Software Update to know when a new version is available, in this case it won't tell you.

Is it just me, or does it seem Apple really screwed things up with 10.4.7? That botched release of theirs appears to be causing headaches left and right.

Gatekeeper

Is it just me, or does it seem Apple really screwed things up with 10.4.7? That botched release of theirs appears to be causing headaches left and right.

Gatekeeper
If it weren't for Civ IV I wouldn't have any problems with 10.4.7. Indeed, it seems to have fixed a few memory usage quirks so the OS seems to be using less memory than it used to.

You can't please everyone all of the time; unfortunately we/Aspyr are the ones who aren't being pleased this time.

Heh. Well, it's a good thing Aspyr/Civ is a fairly major maker of gaming software for the Apple platform. It'll probably get Jobs' crew on it just a wee bit faster if it comes down to something in the OS update.

Gatekeeper

P.S. I wonder if any other recent games are having issues with the update?

Yes, I was able to run full-screen with 4 AAMS and High graphics quality without encountering my reproducible panic. I haven't yet had time to test thoroughly to see whether I encounter any others.
Well, they're back. Not quite as many as before, but I am getting panics in full-screen mode again. Back to a window...

P.S. I wonder if any other recent games are having issues with the update?

I know Rise of Nations will quit to the desktop if you have installled the latest Quicktime update.

Good grief. I hope somebody's head comes off their shoulders at Apple. Heh. Knowing Steve Jobs' volatility, it's probably already happened.

Gatekeeper

Thanks for the info. The VRAM thing is separate from what you're seeing, definitely. An out of VRAM issue would manifest itself in Civ4 as garbage in the globe view, typically.

What confuses me is that I have that very issue, and I have 256MB VRAM, which is considerably above minimums. :dubious: So how much VRAM do I need to not run out in globe view on a Cinema HD Display?

What confuses me is that I have that very issue, and I have 256MB VRAM, which is considerably above minimums. :dubious: So how much VRAM do I need to not run out in globe view on a Cinema HD Display?
I've never had that issue on my MacBook Pro screen running at 1440x900 with 256MB VRAM (when I was running full screen - using windowed mode now until they fix the kernel panics). So, what's the resolution of your screen?

I'm running Civ 4 on a Macbook Pro with 128mb of video memory. I have the same problem with the scout at the start of the game when graphics settings are maxed. The game freezes. I think it must be a problem with the unit itself on high settings. I placed the graphical settings on high during midgame (well after disbanding my scouts), and civ 4 runs with no problems at all.