Let's see who will bite for a real challenge; this will not be 'won' by weaseling our way through by putting ourself on our own continent with 5 food resources in the start or some other crap like that - no sir.

Here's the deal:

24 hour 'got it', 48 hour playing time (flexible, just say you need more time, but no more than an extra 48 hours)

No variants - I hate them
Players - 5-7

Civ - Ottomans
Difficulty - Sid, max AI aggression level
Rivals - 7
Barbs - Restless

Standard sized continents, temperate, normal climate, 4 billion years old

Decent start -
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/hg1-01.JPG

Roster - IS FULL

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat
4. classical_hero
5. Beorn-eL-Feared
6. homeyg

Any lurking/suggestion making is welcome; and please feel free to lurk without lurker tags, if you wish.

__________

Nice!

I haven't played Sid too much, only tried it two times. However I can win on Deity (I think so, I need about 20 more tiles for Domination). But I'm good at warmongering! I'm not very good as a builder, but as a warmonger I am pretty good. May I join, or am I too unexperienced?

I'm accepting anyone, so you're in.

Okay, thanks.

One suggestion is no barbs, they only help the AI. You can get nothing but grief. You probably won't face many barbs anyway as the AI will sweep them away.

I would not be real fond of any civ with so late of a UU on contients or pangea Sid. I would think a good AA or even Middle Age one more useful. By the time you get to MT, having Sips will not matter much.

One suggestion is no barbs, they only help the AI. You can get nothing but grief. You probably won't face many barbs anyway as the AI will sweep them away.

Then I guess it won't really matter..

It will make a small impact helping the AI and it could hurt you if there are huts close to you and you pop barbs.

I'll be watching this...good luck all. :thumbsup: IMO, Sid itself its a variant.

Alright we need 4 more; the game will not start until roster is full..

never did sid.
can beat up emperor.
looking to finally losemy sid virginity.

i also have limited time (might need skips)

if you'll have me.... :D
if not... :scan: :borg:

Alright, welcome aboard!

Here's the roster so far:

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. Open
4. Open
5. Open
6. homeyg

though this might be a little too challenging, I will give this a try

I am in the same boat as Soul_Warrior. I'll give this a try.

You could throw me at the end of the roster, I'm unsure of the time I'll have in the next few weeks. It will all stabilize when I found my apt. in Mtl and have moved in.

This looks interesting. I'll be watching. Just make sure to build military, or AI SOD's will bury you!!! :evil:

ThERat, classical_hero, Beorn, welcome! The roster is now full.

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat
4. classical_hero
5. Beorn-eL-Feared
6. homeyg

Alright, let's get this show on the road: opening moves?

I'm afraid of not having enough shields with the food we have to get a true 4 turn settler factory going while always maintaining a surplus of 5 food per turn with the granary, but then again I don't think we can expand too fast because then our military will end up being too spread out (since we are not going to be alone and will be seeing pressure from other Civs pretty early with their stacks of warriors), unless we dedicate some cities to produce military only and nothing else. What do you guys think? And what about opening research? Pottery is obviously our first priority, unless we want to research something else and trade for Pottery.

I'm very scared of taking the first turnset. :scared:
Will I play 10 or 20 turns at the beggining?

I am not sure about how settler factories work. I know I managed to get some in my previous games but never fully understood how to create them...
About opening research I can't say anything, since I don't know the starting techs of the Ottomans :blush: I realise that pottery is one of them, but we might want to research something else if we've got a good way to go for a better tech that we can sell for Pottery. And I know the importance of Granaries.

Please post as much as you can about opening moves, since I am scared of being the first.

Factories break down based on how fast you can generate the food and 30 shields. You won't know what is needed, until you see the land. If it has water and food bonus tiles or not.

About opening research I can't say anything, since I don't know the starting techs of the Ottomans :blush:
They are Scientific and Industrious, therefore their starting techs are BW and Masonry.

I'm very scared of taking the first turnset. :scared:
Will I play 10 or 20 turns at the beggining?

I am not sure about how settler factories work. I know I managed to get some in my previous games but never fully understood how to create them...
About opening research I can't say anything, since I don't know the starting techs of the Ottomans :blush: I realise that pottery is one of them, but we might want to research something else if we've got a good way to go for a better tech that we can sell for Pottery. And I know the importance of Granaries.

Please post as much as you can about opening moves, since I am scared of being the first.

It will be alright. There's nothing to be afraid of, just take your time. But if you don't want to do it, I will move myself (or someone else, if they want) to the first roster position. :)

Usually it goes 20 turns for everyone the first time around the roster, then 10 turns after that.

The Ottomans starting techs are Bronzeworking and Masonry. We might want to research Iron Working first, so we can claim iron if there is any (and if there is no iron, we are screwed), and trade it around for mainly Pottery and other techs. Around the time you are researching your first tech, it's usually not possible to get enough beakers per turn to make a huge difference in the amount of turns it will take to research, so I think we should have research on 0% for the first tech and collect some gold.

As for knowing the workings of a settler factory, it's alright that you don't, because unless it's a 4 turn, it can be very hard to micromanage the food and shields to keep it going, so if we can't make one that produces a settler every 4 turns, I would just say don't worry about it; just build settlers as fast as you can.

Since you're looking for advice...

About the factory, we have our 5 food with the FPW, and 6/7 shields at sizes 5/6 with a mined sugar, watered plains (at worse, we can irrigate a FP and mine a plain). That's 6+6+7+7=26, add the 2x2 shields on growth with the forst and we have a realy nice 4 turner. I'd be for settling first, see if there's more chops available.

Depending on the chops, warrior-granary-settler or warrior-worker-granary-settler. By that time it should be nearly or at 5fpt with 30shields/4t. With minimal management every other turn. Irrigate/mine first, road 2nd, move 3rd. Irrigating is faster so I'd go FPW-plain(just S)-sugar, for instance, if that's what you were asking about.

On research, we can't risk min research and we shouldn't hope for IW first if any other civ is SCI (starts with bronze). Check F10, if anyone knows Bronze I'd work on alpha(start and trade)-math-currency; if we're a loner there, full steam on IW and hope we can grab the currency route. SID makes anything writing/republic useless except maybe Lit.

That's all an idiot's opinion though, feel free to disregard and listen to the other ones.

Well, if you guys really want to beat sid, then you should be able to estimate whether building a granary is a good idea or not! A 4-turner IS possible here at size 5-6, but it requires a lot of work and researching pottery (or taking a chance that you can get it by trade).

What you really need to know before making a decision on how to procede is how close the AI are. Usually the AI on sid and expand so fast, that it is better to found about 5 cities or so and then sword-rush them while they are still in expansion mode after a min-run on IW. But it may be wrong if they are too far away, especially if it is a 60% water map.

I would start a min-run on IW and build 1-2 warriors to explore, then 1-2 settlers. If there are no AI close to us, you can discard the beakers invested in IW (20 gold or so is not important), get pottery full-steam and setup a SF (using barracks as prebuild).

EDIT on crosspost: you cannot chop forest, because then you won't get the magic 2 shields from growth. Literature is obviously a tech you should aim for, all other techs you won't get as monopolies, even currency is quite risky. But an IW min-run isw not that bad for that purpose, with some luck you can trade masonry for alpha and then extort writing for peace. Literature can get you many techs, but you'll still end up behind, it just seems inevitable on sid/non-archipelago.

3 Civs that start with BW, 2 that start with Alpha:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/hg1-02.JPG

EDIT on crosspost: you cannot chop forest, because then you won't get the magic 2 shields from growth. Literature is obviously a tech you should aim for, all other techs you won't get as monopolies, even currency is quite risky.
[offtopic] On lower difficulty levels, Lit could get you the GL, and other techs could get you other wonders, but on Sid, you'd have to be very lucky to actually get an AAGW. (Note: I am a low difficulty level player :D) Sorry if this message is :nospam:

I believe the forest chops are meant to speed the granary. If not, then the chop probably solely refers to forest tiles, not actually cutting them down.

Beorn was probably using the if-then method to describe what the build order should be in different situations.

using the if-then methodSince the fog-gazing SW is unclear about the forestation, it's a classical if-then to me, thanks for pointing out I'm not clear yet again. My english should improve over the next while, I'll have an american roomie. But 'til then ... :p

i agree with Obormot.

we need to explore a bit before we commit to the full research.

we can make a 4 turner, but that is for later.

for now how about a warrior > warrior > rax/settler > granary (if were alone)?
science? start on Iron for a few turns, till we can explore a bit (say 10 turns).
see whats around, and decide then if we dump it for pots, or run full on to swords

Lots of information to read...

I have some questions though.
What is "rax/settler"?
What is a "if-then" method?

Anyway, got it. I will play soon.

Lots of information to read....
indeed

I have some questions though.
What is "rax/settler"?
What is a "if-then" method?

edited for clarity!!!

rax = short for BARRACKS. it is meant to be either a prebuild for a granary, ;) or if we are hemmed in > A SETTLER for early land grab

if-then, is a computer programmer dialect.
it meants that "IF" there are forests to chop "THEN" we can chop or use on growth.
it is meant in reference to an unknown factor (such as our unexplored land)
we can GUESS what is out there, but till we get a warrior out there we dot really know, and have to "fog-gaze"

Oh, thanks for the info!

if-then, is a computer programmer dialect.
Yeah, I know programming, just I never thought it has any connection with this. I am pretty good at Pascal but still a complete newbie at C++.

I played a few test games with the same settings (and barbs), and it seems nearly impossible to get to Currency before every other AI gets it (not to mention, impossible to get the techs leading up to Currency before the AI's get them).

Lurker:

I have never gotten currency or const first in any sid game. It is not even a sure thing to get Philo first, when starting with alpha. About 60-40 I would say in some 30 games of sid, played to conclusion.

I will admit I never had it as a goal, so maybe it could be done, but you would need some things to go right.

Lurker:

I have never gotten currency or const first in any sid game. It is not even a sure thing to get Philo first, when starting with alpha. About 60-40 I would say in some 30 games of sid, played to conclusion.

I will admit I never had it as a goal, so maybe it could be done, but you would need some things to go right.

I was thinking another possibility would be to go straight for Literature (just for the trading, not for the GL), but this doesn't seem plausible since we don't start with Alpha.

Then all points to the IW rush, with our starting techs.

I was thinking another possibility would be to go straight for Literature (just for the trading, not for the GL), but this doesn't seem plausible since we don't start with Alpha.

You can get to Lit first much of the time without Alpha, because it is very common for them to not research Lit and go straight to the next age.

You can get to Lit first much of the time without Alpha, because it is very common for them to not research Lit and go straight to the next age.

Alright, I'm beginning to think this is the better plan, and this might sound completely insane/crazy, but we might want to build a city specially designed for prebuilding/building the Great Library.

In our successful sid game last time, we missed the GL by a mere few turns. It is possible to get there, but you need a dedicated city very early on.

The IW min run would be a good choice before going for lit IHMO

There are so many different opinions that I forget the first ones before reading the last ones.

So please tell me, when I start the game, what should I do?

Like I said, the easier the difficultly level, the easier it is to build GW's. Unfortunately, the GL is never much use. On the low difficulty levels, you'll have such a huge tech advantage anyway (but you can still build it to keep the AI from getting it :mischief:), and it's too hard to get it on higher difficulty levels unless you dedicate precious time and resources to it. If you do manage to get the GL on a high difficulty level, be prepared to ride it's elevator to a huge tech lead. However, it's probably easier to build military and take from the AI when you've just entered the middle ages. At that point, the AI's will probably already be near the end of the Industrial ages, and you might get more out of it.

Lurker:

choxorn you cannot get a tech lead from the GLB, it only gives you tech that others already know. The value, when there is one, is that you can stop researching and save up cash.

The reason it is of little use other than deity and sid, is you have to keep researching anyway on all but Demi. That is the one level it is a coin flip.

Dedicating the effort can payoff at the top levels, when you pull it off.

None of what I mentioned is intented to suggest one course or the other, just a response to a question.

What if two AI's are way ahead, and everyone else is backwards? :D And I wasn't suggesting couses either. I was just saying what your options are if you decided to do anything GLB related.

I think we can pull off the GL, but I also think going for IW first is a bit risky if we intend to getting to Literature first.

That is, if ya'll want to go for the GL. :)

Btw, what is the chance a scientific leader might appear if we are the first to Literature? We could finish the GL that way if it happens..

What if two AI's are way ahead, and everyone else is backwards?

Not gonna happen very often on Sid. Maybe on lower difficulty levels, but not this.

It's probably possible. Not very likely, but possible. In any case, you won't be behind If you get the GLB. Also in any case, If you manage to get an SGL with literature, use it to rush the GLB!!!

That's 'cause seafaring AI get curraghs upon settling, right? And MM comes quickly too....

Additionally, the best way to get to currency first is to be the French. Immediate min sci on math, then currency.

Btw, what is the chance a scientific leader might appear if we are the first to Literature? We could finish the GL that way if it happens..

I forget, but it is something like 3% or 5% for non scientific civs. So it is something like 1 in 20 or worse. I have gotten one for Philo, none for Lit, for what it is worth. Just to put it in perspective, I remember as it was the only SGL I ever got at sid before the modern age.

I played some conquest games and got a couple in the modern age. I tend to only steal after the GLB expires, unless I play to the MA.

I forget, but it is something like 3% or 5% for non scientific civs. So it is something like 1 in 20 or worse. I have gotten one for Philo, none for Lit, for what it is worth. Just to put it in perspective, I remember as it was the only SGL I ever got at sid before the modern age.

I played some conquest games and got a couple in the modern age. I tend to only steal after the GLB expires, unless I play to the MA.

Well, we are Scientific, so I assume the chance increases a bit.

And I beleive I have gotten a SGL on Literature before.

I guess the main point here is that you'll need luck. And lots of it.

for a sci leader we have a 5% chance.
not worth the chance imo.
if we get one... hurrah! and we use it. no point i waiting too much.

i also think we can risk running for iron prior to lit.
IRON will make or break us.
we need it.

are we agreed on the first builds?
is it warrior-warrior, see what happens and choose now?

for a sci leader we have a 5% chance.
not worth the chance imo.
if we get one... hurrah! and we use it. no point i waiting too much.

i also think we can risk running for iron prior to lit.
IRON will make or break us.
we need it.

are we agreed on the first builds?
is it warrior-warrior, see what happens and choose now?

That sounds fine to me.

You have Masonry, so you can start a Palace prebuild in your 2nd city. Quite useful for GLB. :)

You have Masonry, so you can start a Palace prebuild in your 2nd city. Quite useful for GLB. :)
you are wise in the ways of the prebuild!
:worship: :salute:

How's it coming Mirc? You doing ok?

Yeah I will play right now.

:D I played. Turn log in the next post. It was allright, but I am still scared I might have done something wrong. :(

For now, here is the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Osman_of_the_Ottomans,_3000_BC.SAV).

Turn log:

4000 BC: We settle the city of Istanbul. We move the worker to the wheat tile. We start researching IW at min (+3 GPT as a result). Production set on warrior.

3950 BC: Start irrigating the wheat.

3900 BC: Nothing... Really nothing! Not even a worker or warrior move, or a change in a city.

3850 BC: :sleep:

3800 BC: Finished irrigation, build road.

3750 BC: Istanbul grows, lux slider set to 10% to prevent disorder, which was coming next turn.

3700 BC: Warrior completed. Start work on another warrior. Set this one to explore. Road completed. Moved worker south.

3650 BC: We meet the Mongols. They want to trade Pottery and some gold (about 35) for Masonry. I do the trade, they were going to get Masonry soon enough anyway. Start irrigating the plains south of the Wheat.

3600 BC: Exploring...

3550 BC: Exploring...

3500 BC: Istanbul grows to size three! Irrigation completed, started road.

3450 BC: Exploring...

3400 BC: The Mongols bring a HUGE SoD near Istanbul!!! I started to be very afraid. It consists of 8 warriors and 3 archers! We also complete our second warrior. Production set to Barracks, but the next player can change to settler since it is going to be completed in the turn after my last turn. I woud go for a settler myself.
Road completed, moved worker to sugar.

3350 BC: Started mining the sugar. The SoD doesn't enter our territory, but it gets closer! It did touch the territory line, but now it is exactly 2 tiles south of us and they might enter that way faster!

3300 BC: We meet the Dutch. They have lots of techs ahead (3 of them). We don't have any tech ahead them. They do not wish to trade any of them with us, since we have "just" 98 gold...
Mongol SoD passes by and dissaperes in the unknown...

3250 BC: Istanbul grows to size 4. Not sure how to manage happiness, lux is 20% and one citizen is scientist.

3200 BC: Mine completed, started road on sugar.

3150 BC: Exploring...

3100 BC: Road completed, moved worker to flood plains to the north of Wheat.

3050 BC: Start roading the Flood Plain tile.

3000 BC: Nothing. The barracks would finish in 2 turns, the settler in 1 turn.


Comments: OMG, this is Sid. Everything is changed. It is so difficult! I am scared! Let's see what we can do. What victory do we prefer (if we plan to win ;))? And please tell me if I did something wrong.

Good luck to the next player!

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5953/zoomedin9uw.jpg

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/3213/zoomedout8zh.jpg

Lurker:

Mirc you basically have to keep the citizens working, so use MP's and slider to do that. You also have a new concept to you (maybe) and that is demanding. Once they slow down expansion, they will be asking for bribes, so it will be hard to keep cash around.

It ends up going in their pockets, so may as well spend it on sliders. If you have 100 they will ask for more than if you had 20.

Thanks, vmxa. I never looked at it this way. I learnt that having more gold = more to invest in techs, upgrades, and cash-rush, but I never thought that a more powerful civ asking for tribute will ask more if you have more!

I just hope it didn't affect the game too much.

Yes, it's all right to use the luxury slider as high as it needs to go, because of what vmxa said and because you will usually still be gaining gold, just not as much (you are never going to have to raise the slider to 100%).

A four turn settler factory can be acheived when all circled tiles are improved with a base size of four (using the tiles circled in red) and working another irrigated plains tile every time it grows (circled in blue and red).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/hg1-031.JPG

1. Mirc - just played
2. soul_warrior - up
3. ThERat - on deck
4. classical_hero
5. Beorn-eL-Feared
6. homeyg

oooh, look at those huts. Try to beat the AI to them! It might get you a tech!
Speaking if tech, I assume your current plan is to research or get in this order: IW->Alpha->Writing->Lit and use Palace Prebuild for the GLB.

oooh, look at those huts. Try to beat the AI to them! It might get you a tech!
Speaking if tech, I assume your current plan is to research or get in this order: IW->Alpha->Writing->Lit and use Palace Prebuild for the GLB.

Nope, theres a 95% chance (or something like that) that the huts are barbs, and we don't want that.

Lurker:

This is SId you want to be very circumspect about popping hut. Barbs will kill your warriors and even horses are not a lock.

PS:

The reason is you have 0 bonus on deity and sid Vs barbs. Compare to Chief at 800, so you can just wade in with anything you have. Here I dislike popping hut with less than archer or horse and they best be vets.

Lurker:

This is SId you want to be very circumspect about popping hut. Barbs will kill you warriors and even horses are not a lock.

I wouldn't pop a hut on Sid, unless it was with a spearmen (if I'm not expansionist, obviously).

3700 BC: Warrior completed. Start work on another warrior. Set this one to explore. Road completed. Moved worker south.

I just noticed this, but I hope you don't mean you pressed auto-explore. You will be able to find other Civs faster (this is really the goal of exploration early on) if you explore manually.

And you asked how we want to win? I would love to see a conquest but that would be very, very difficult. However, it might be the only one we can acheive if we aren't able to keep up in tech very well.

Did anyone notice the time until the barracks completes? 2 turns remain. That's too much for a settler without waste....

Did anyone notice the time until the barracks completes? 2 turns remain. That's too much for a settler without waste....

Yes, I don't understand why we are building a barracks to begin with, a granary would be more useful @ this point.

FYI if we mine a plain it'll do as good as mining the hill, getting us to 6-6-7-7+4 for our factory.

We need to settle the wines ASAP although a hill/sugar/FP town SE should be worth it. But we'll have to go gran first I guess.

ok.

i have it.
cant play tonight though :(

i suggest we change production to a granary.
then a settler to get the wines.

i will fire the beakerhead, going MAX expenditure of lux and research.
i thought we wanted a quick iron site?

continue exploring too.

i suggest we change production to a granary.

Yes, a barracks is useless for us right now, we need a granary.

just noticed this, but I hope you don't mean you pressed auto-explore. You will be able to find other Civs faster (this is really the goal of exploration early on) if you explore manually.
What is auto-explore? You can set a unit to explore automatically? :eek: I didn't know this!

And about the barracks, you could change it to a settler (case when it will be completed next turn) or a granary, which costs more than a settler, so we wouldn't waste any shields.

go for a granary, but I doubt increasing the research will help much, think a min run here is fine then max for alpha and writing/lit while starting a prebuild

pre turn - :eek:
change build to a granary.
fire beakerhead.
granary will arrive in 5. grow on 3. happy juice just fine.
tweedling with the science slider produces absolutely ZERO effect. back to a 10% crawl.

1- rename warrior > homer. he walks up a hill, edging back home.
northern warrior > bart goes on northbound, exploring.

IBT- those SoDs are creepy. even they stay clear of the huts.
i wonder what is behind door number 3?

2- homer keep going on the ridge.
worker > BEENIE MAN finished road, hydrates floodplain.
bart does his usual.

ibt- 4 dutch thugs inch towards beenie-man.

3- homer inches back home.
it wont do much good, but on the offchance he will, i still crawl back.
we grew to size 5. lux up to 40%. still making 5gpt.
MM a bit, to minimize shield waste, getting some more food.
make 6 gpt now :D

ibt- dutch go hut busting.

4- bart and homer do their stuff.
MM for 1 more gp.

ibt- nada

5- granary is IN. start a warrior.
lower science due to tile happiness.
Beenie-man goes along the river bank, so he can start roading the plains (and someday hook up the wines)
bart goes N.

ibt-

6- beenieman roads plains.

ibt-

7- warrior > settler.
MM to max shields as we will grow in the IBT.
warrior stays as MP? no. raise lux back to 40. 4gpt in the black.
rename him Red Neck, and go south, exploring.
Bart reached a barren frozen wasteland.

ibt - nada.

8- we grow to size 6.
MM to try and fit settler on growth.
tweedle stuff. hope it works.
beenie-man irrigates plains.

ibt-

9- MM. i think i missed it by 1 shield. drat.
no AI in the hood.

ibt - :sleep:

10- find a dutch border, right where redneck went :(
MM works and we get a settler in 2, on growth.
Beenie-man finishes watering, moves towards wines to road next turn.

moved an extra turn.
sorry.

save and take pix.

no trades are possible yet.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/homey_sid_sw_19.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/homey_sid_sw_18.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/soul_warrior/homey_sid_sw_17.jpg

got it, I can play now, we should try and get out another settler soon to claim the land south west near the hills, I hope we have iron there

I looked at the save and I think we should dicuss first where to place the next city

I think we should go north since the Dutch come from there. Maybe we can claim the flood plains and then later wine and the hills to the south
what do you guys think?

maybe someone can come up with a dotmap, I would settle north between gold mountain and wheat and southwest between river and those 3 hills...

I looked at the save and I think we should dicuss first where to place the next city

I think we should go north since the Dutch come from there. Maybe we can claim the flood plains and then later wine and the hills to the south
what do you guys think?

maybe someone can come up with a dotmap, I would settle north between gold mountain and wheat and southwest between river and those 3 hills...
agreed.
i would take this upcoming settler to the 3 hills (sw of istanbul), next one to the gold-wheat site, and only the 3rd one to the wines.

made a quick dot map to explain

I'd settle the FPW first just for the sake of food and workers, then the spot SW that SW mentionned, wines and the hills/FP SE. Will try a dotmap.

EDIT: what's up with the worker not working the city?? There's one more mine to put up before we can have an actual 4 turns factory ...

Here's my attempt, would go Blue Red Yellow Green

... looks like we did the same thing SW :p

I suggest putting a worker out the next two turns after the settler so that we get stuff up faster. We'll have an odd settler to put up and then things will go normally, since it'll take 4 turns for the mine to be up.

I know I shouldnt be doing this, but I made a dotmap...if you guys dont mind. :)

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/3526/dotmap8oz.th.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dotmap8oz.jpg)

Blue Red Yellow Green
we did indeed do da same...
there should be a song about this :D

as did the young frog.

explanation:
the worker is walking away from town as i thought, prior to the discussion and better actions, that we would connect the wines.

my bad.

agree with BeF on a worker after the settler.
maybe even alternate between settler and worker builds? in some odd fashion?
settler > warrior > worker > settler sort of?
cant do math now...
how bout it pregnant bear?

If we do workers we couldn't fit warriors in. We'd have to go settler-settler-worker-settler-settler-worker-worker or somesuch. Making warriors would give us a worker at size 6 but then we'd need to get the settler out at size 7 and lose our whole granary bin thing.

FYI we need to push settlers ASAP: we'r down 1 city to 7 against the Dutch. So we could go for some foodloss-micro'ed settler after the next worker, just so that the 4 turn pump is running ASAP. We will only have it running starting on the 5th turn after the worker is out, meaning we need to go
next turn: settler
2 turns: worker
5 turns: settler
4 turns: settler (x 12 ;)) with 2-turn workers amidst, on need.

Town 2 could go for MP warriors then a worker or two up front, working on pumping 2t-workers or 4~6t settlers with a granary, eventually.

As mentionned, we need to claim territory Westwards, once we have a coarse core, if anything remains.

Here's my attempt, would go Blue Red Yellow Green

Might I suggest Blue, Yellow, Green, Red, just so we can get the luxury hooked up a bit faster?

And I would recommend getting one city concentrated on building only spears/other units (the green, yellow, and red circles, perhaps), one on building only workers or settlers if we can't get it into some kind of equilibrium with building workers (the blue circle, perhaps), and our factory on building only settlers (after we get another worker or two out of there).

I know I shouldnt be doing this, but I made a dotmap...if you guys dont mind. :)

Of course we don't mind! :)

And I would recommend getting one city concentrated on building only spears/other units (the green, yellow, and red circles, perhaps), one on building only workers or settlers if we can't get it into some kind of equilibrium with building workers (the blue circle, perhaps), and our factory on building only settlers (after we get another worker or two out of there).
Spearman arent necessary on any level, but if you meant units for military police, then warrior builds is what you would need. I doubt the AI likes to attack this early in the game, even with their SOD's. I think the wine area could become a nice warrior/worker factory by mining the wines and irrigating plains, it could be enough shields + growth for warrior-worker. not sure about it though, since I'm not good at Civ Math.

Lurker:

Do not be too quick to dismiss a spear at this level. It won't do anything to keep you from being seen as weak, but that can't be helped anyway.

Two things it can do are 1- defend some 2- discourage setlter captures. You also have the concern that uprisings come early. That does not matter, if you have no fog to deal with.

Spears are of value in close quarters, that is neighbors are near in several directions, when you are weaker than they are. At emperor, you can deal with them without spears, but their production is too high here.

I would settle the flood plains first for more workers, then the hills for the GL prebuild (yes, start immediately) and then wine for a rax/MP city. After that we can assess the situation again.
By the way, we are accumulating money right now, should we use it to acquire techs? If we do not spend the money, we will lose it soon to demands anyway...

Will play late tonight, so plenty of time for more input

Nope, theres a 95% chance (or something like that) that the huts are barbs, and we don't want that.
Right, barbs. I totally forgot about that. I haven't played a game above Cheiftain where I wasn't expansionist (unless you count that game where I was on a small island... :( ), so I think nothing of these.

My reason for calling the W-SW city 2nd was that the dutch will most likely plant a settler there befoer we can blink. IMHO the wines can wait 4 turns if the reward is an extra city.

About troops, besides the first three(Settlers, MP/workers, GLB) cities, I don't see anything to do for every last shield we have other than military for a while. Hopefully we can get iron, otherwise buying ourselves the wheel as a safeguard could be worthwhile.

My reason for calling the W-SW city 2nd was that the dutch will most likely plant a settler there befoer we can blink. IMHO the wines can wait 4 turns if the reward is an extra city.
You have a point there, I also feel settling west before north would be better...

Who's next?

1. Mirc - started u s up
2. soul_warrior - gran and a settler in
3. ThERat - has GOT IT, according to post 83 - will start land grabbing
4. classical_hero - on deck for more land snatching
5. Beorn-eL-Feared - crunching our 4 turner math
6. homeyg - hosting this momentous event

3. ThERat - has GOT IT, according to post 83 - will start land grabbing

Uh... Post 83 was made by ansar. :crazyeye: Do you mean post 88?

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homeyg01_2110BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
ok, what's our status right now
Mongols and Dutch are up all known techs including IW

employ scientist and reduce lux since we get settler in 1 (thus 8gpt)

1.2470BC
settler moves west, spot a Mogol settler pair in the west, we better grab that spot faster
go for worker in 2

2. 2430BC
settler moving, spot a barb hut in the north

3. 2390BC
worker - settler, settler in position

4. 2350BC
capital gets hit by disease :(
found Edrine in a safe position so that we don't get culture pressure by Mongols
start palace
change capital to warrior for additional growth since hit by disease

lose Bart trying to take out a hut :(

5. 2310BC
Istanbul is down to pop 3, still start a settler there
lux at 10% now with MP and pop 3

6. 2270BC
zzz

7.2230BC
in the east spot those huge stack, scary, but it seems we have a peninsula there for us

8. 2190BC
Istanbul is back to pop 5, settler in 3

9. 2150BC
MM Istanbul to get settler with growth (due to forrest 2 shields)
but wheat spot taken by Dutch

10. 2110BC
Istanbul settler - settler (now at pop 4)
send settler to the wine site. we need that city to produce warriors for exploration and MP's

IW due in 10 turns, we make 9gpt currently and have 262gold

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homey2110.jpg

by the way, with proper MM we can get a settler every 4 turns and we should do so until we have filled more land, go for wine then the south, the south west and then east IMHO

Too bad we lost the NW city, but that's bound to happen - a lot. Barracks -> swordsmen on te menu !

Aw man, that's too bad we weren't able to get that spot..

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat - has GOT IT - just played
4. classical_hero - up!
5. Beorn-eL-Feared - on deck
6. homeyg

I do not know the AI cost factor on Sid level, but can't you get any (cheap) tech with all that gold?

I do not know the AI cost factor on Sid level, but can't you get any (cheap) tech with all that gold?

Nope, we don't have enough gold to give without having to also give gpt.

Lurker:

Cost factor on is 4. That translates to them paying 40%, while you pay
100%. So a 400 shield wonder cost them 160.

after the wine city, I would go for that southern coastal hill and maybe another city on the hill next to the fish (southwest). One of those cities should start a curragh for more contacts. I doubt our warriors would be able to cross the Dutch land without making them really angry.

The wine city should go for rax/mil, while one other city should ge for workers.

I am also sure that we might be able to get alpha from the AI for the money we have in order to go for literature faster. We should stay on course for the palace/GL

agreed with therat.

try to get alpha.
wine to swords, and fish to boats.

I've got it. Will play tomorrow.

@homeyg: how much gpt? if it's small enough, it might be worth it.

Buying anything but Alpha and Writing is a waste, IMO. You'll get them with GL anyway, and I don't think you can get anything useful (Currency) by that time.

@homeyg: how much gpt? if it's small enough, it might be worth it.

When I checked I think it was most of our gpt and we intent to go full research to Literature.

I don't know, now that I think about it, it might be worth it (if we buy Alphabet now) to go without full research 10 turns into Writing (only 10 because we still have 10 turns left for IW) rather than wait 30 or so turns to get Alphabet with full research.

When I checked I think it was most of our gpt and we intent to go full research to Literature.

Then forget it, that's too much. Just buy Alpha/Writing if you can.

Preturn. I get Alpha for 223 gold and 6gpt from the Dutch.

IBT. Nothing.

Turn 1. Just moving that settler towards the spot to found our next city.

IBT. The Dutch have built the Pyramids. The Mayans build the Oracle

Turn 2. I increase the lux to stop rioting.

IBT. Not much.

Turn 3. I build Bursa.
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4295/bursajn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IBT. Not much.

Turn 4. More of the same.

IBT. Not much.

Turn 5. We build a settler. There are barbs close to us.

IBT. More Dutch units are going towards the barbs. We kill a barb and now our warrior is a vet. The Dutch are building the GLight.

Turn 6 or 7. Not much. I must have missed turn, but not much would have occured.

IBT. The Duth get a city from a hut

Turn 8. Not much.

IBT. The Dutch have plenty of units, thus I give them 21 gold as they have demanded, otherwise we would be dead.

Turn 9. I build Inzik. Some one has had 11 turns. :nono:

Here is our lands ATM.
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1128/ourterritoryon0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homeyg01_1750BC.SAV)

I think we need more workers.

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat
4. classical_hero - just played
5. Beorn-eL-Feared - up
6. homeyg - on deck

I think its utterly impossible to flip a city on sid, just my thoughts...

@madviking: You mean a AI city, right?
Speaking of flip, you better hope Edrine doesn't flip, or you're screwed!

Edrine won't flip, but Iznik probably will unless you raze that Dal...gad city

@madviking: You mean a AI city, right?
Speaking of flip, you better hope Edrine doesn't flip, or you're screwed!

Edrine isn't in danger of flipping before finishing the GL, but Iznik is, especially if the AI builds a temple in that city with the strange name.

Lurker:
Did the Zulu drop Dalandzagdad before your Iznik? If so you are going to make them mad. Why not put it on the hill, it still gets the coast, but is not so far away? Any aggressive placement will lead to war, unless you are strong and you won't be for some time.

Some one has had 11 turns. :nono:
my bad.
during my set i played an extra turn(andwritten about it ;))

nice on the alpha deal.

pray Iznik wont flip (meaning Dar...zam... whatever is the FIRST to go)

is Edrine at ANY flip chance?
what if we put some MPs into it?

@Pentium&homeyg: it's probably possible... hope the RNG gods favor you... :mischief:
@vmxa: that's the Mongols, not the Zulu. ;) Even worse!

Lurker:
Did the Zulu drop Dalandzagdad before your Iznik?

You mean the Mongols? :p EDIT: Whoops, looks like choxorn corrected him before me.

And yes it looks as if they did plop Dalandzagdad before us (they AI never usually places cities less than 2 tiles from foreign cities, from my experience).

we should plop the next city down at the hill with fish to completely encroach that Mongol city.
The city needs to burn sooner or later, let's hope we have iron.

We need more workers, let wine city churn out more of them

Looks like we have a first target.

Will need a skip, haven't had time to sit on GR12 yet and that's gonna take the remainder of my free time this week-end.

Looks like we have a first target.

Will need a skip, haven't had time to sit on GR12 yet and that's gonna take the remainder of my free time this week-end.

Alrighty - I got it, will play tomorrow.

You mean the Mongols? :p EDIT: Whoops, looks like choxorn corrected him before me.

And yes it looks as if they did plop Dalandzagdad before us (they AI never usually places cities less than 2 tiles from foreign cities, from my experience).

Actually, they do. If someone sacks all their cities, they will settle ASAP. So if a settler can settle anywhere on the map, it will move until it can, it might do so 2 spaces away from another's city. Of course, by then, the AI would probably be dead.

And good luck. You'll need it for SID.

1750 BC - Everything looks okay, don't like those stacks of Mongols, and also, we don't seem to be running our factory properly.

IBT: Finish Iron Working, start full science on Writing. Both known civs already have it.

Turn 1: 1725 BC - We have iron in a hill next to Edrine, and it's already connected. Move settler to hill next to fish to enclose the Mongol city. Lower luxury to 10% and science to 50%. We are losing 1 gpt. Neither opposing civs have iron yet. Change Iznik's production to worker. Worker/Warrior movements. We get Writing in 41 turns.

IBT: A Dutch settler may beat us to the hill location.

Turn 2: 1700 BC - A few movements, increase luxury to 20%, we now are losing 2 gpt, Writing in 37 turns.

IBT: Setter moves away, so we get the location.

Turn 3: 1675 BC - Nothing, settler moves into it's spot, next turn we found.

IBT: Bursa: worker -> warrior

Turn 4: 1650 BC - Found Uskudar, begin on worker. Writing in 32 turns. Raise luxury to 30%.

IBT: Disease strikes Istanbul - damn.

Turn 5: 1625 BC - Bursa worker begins roading the wines.

IBT: Disease, Mongols establish embassy.

Turn 6: 1600 BC - Nothing. Our settler factory is screwed up from the disease, so I complete a sword instead of a settler. New settler factory cycle to begin.

IBT: A warrior and a settler from a new civ approach us.

Turn 7: 1575 BC - Find out that it is the Babylonians, they have nothing to trade. Sword sent to act as military police in Edrine. Writing in 22 turns. We are losing 4 gpt.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 8: 1550 BC - Adjust luxury to 20%, we are now losing no gpt.

IBT: Bursa: warrior -> worker

Turn 9: 1525 BC - Nothing. Writing in 19.

IBT: Istanbul's borders expand. Iznik: worker -> worker.

Turn 10: 1500 BC - Wines are now connected to capital and Edrine, keep luxury at 20%. Nothing else except some movements.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/hg1-04.JPG

ENDNOTES: Please keep the capital's food surplus at 5 at all times (until we decide to stop expansion), this is the only way to keep the factory working smoothly. It looks like we can keep a 5 turn factory going if we can do this. It's time to expand west now.

_______

yes, expand west and start improving the land around the palace prebuild. We must make sure to get the GL and thus, need to get the city to size faster. We can join workers as well after we improve the land.

Mine the iron, irrigate the plains. Once we have lit, we should jack up lux to be able to run that city with a high pop to really get the GL. I think if we do not get it, this game is almost over.

Once we have that, we should go after Mongols to get rid of some culture pressure

1. Mirc - up
2. soul_warrior - on deck
3. ThERat
4. classical_hero
5. Beorn-eL-Feared
6. homeyg - just played

Homey, we have a 4-t factory on our hands, try reloading your initial save and look at the mechanics of it closely - you'll notice we make it in the end; something to do with the forest ... ;)

Looks like fun anywho :thumbsup:

Don't you mean east? I sincerely hope you can get more land than what lies west....

Don't you mean east? I sincerely hope you can get more land than what lies west....

Yes, sorry.

I've got it. I will play tomorrow.

I kept my promise and played today. (well, at least in my timezone, it is 10:08 PM, and the previous post was made yesterday, at 11:20 AM)

Turn log and screenshot coming in the next post. I have to descifrate what I wrote in a hurry when I was playing.

For now, here is the save:
Click (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homeyg01_Mirc.SAV)

as i am next, ill do a preemptive strike and ask for a skip.
as i live under the shadowy cloak of nasserallah. i have little patience these days.
hopefully the war will end before my next set.

Mirc, could you also post some pix of where we are right now?

Pre-turn: Everything seems all right.

Turn 1: Moved workers...

Turn 2: The Babs try to get to the eastern peninsula. I start a blockade as they are 1 turn away from my troops and I do my best to block them.

Turn 3: We found Izmit.

Turn 4: The Babs are pressing more. No problem, I can block! 2 warriors, a worker and a city are enough to block them.

Turn 5: THE BORDERS OF DALANDZADGAD EXPAND! THIS MEANS THE MONGOLS BUILT A CULTURAL IMPROVEMENT THERE! WE ARE LOST! Probably they think that their city might be under cultural pressure! :lol:

Turn 6: Still just moving workers. Our lands have significantly improved with the building of all those new workers. Congratulations to the player before me! :goodjob:

Turn 7: The Dutch settle a city at our east! Fortunately, I couldn't see any worse position than the one they placed it in! Really! I don't understand how can they be that stupid! They have grasslands, BG's, Tobacco and Fish a little more to the north but they settle in the middle of the plains!

Turn 8: Babs want to go through! Still manage to block them though.

Turn 9: Just moving workers...

Turn 10: A Dutch SoD enters our territory. :scared: But I strongly believe that they are just going home. Also I spot a Dutch galley, but coming from the East. I am sure they didn't bring any settlers to the lands at our east, as I would have spotted them going there with a settler.

Summary: We settle a new city, and we have a settler waiting to settle. A LOT of wonders are completed by the AI, many in the same turn! I couldn't keep track of them all. I remember having 3 in only one turn. Nobody started the GL though. The Dutch have SoD's of warriors and archers running everywhere. The Mongols are not expanding much now. We really are growing, but slowly compared to the AI. We need to recover in techs, the GL would be the best thing we need, as most of the civs seem to be close to each other in tech and power and cities, no runaway civ so far, so we don't need to worry that one civ researches too fast and we won't get their techs as they are the only ones to have them. But, if we build the GL, we might keep it only for a few turns!!! I mean that the AI appear to be so advanced, that I am afraid they will discover education very soon after we finish the GL (or another AI does). The best thing that could happen is that all the civs research Education in the same time, not having any other, more advanced tech, so they can't build the GL any more. So we would have no competition and after we build it we are not behind. However, this would be just luck.

Here is a screenshot from the eastern part of the world, as we know it:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8623/homeyg01eastgf2.jpg

That's quite a few Bab spearmen! Better hope they don't declare, or :ar15:

Of course, if you (the next player) are afraid of Babs, you can move in your pre-turn the warrior from Istanbul to the place where the fortified warrior is, and move that one into Bursa, still blocking them but having a defense. But you will have to adjust the lux slider as Istanbul would riot.

Those spears are only protecting settlers, don't worry about them. And don't keep blocking them for too much longer, because if I recall correctly, the AI will get pissed and declare war if you do that (but I might be wrong).

1. Mirc - just played
2. soul_warrior - skipped
3. ThERat - up
4. classical_hero - on deck
5. Beorn-eL-Feared
6. homeyg

this looks tight, well, we asked for it playing SID. We better get the GL and then take on Mongols.
By then I hope we almost finished the land grab.

got it tonight

Oh dear, Lauwersoog is placed in a location that disrupts your expansion quite badly. Not only will it place cultural pressure on you, but it will connect to future Dutch towns; their seafaring trait will help them settle many more towns on 'your' land. So I eagerly await, what you're going to do.

I don't know about you, but those babs look scary to me! Even if they are just escorting Settlers, a free city wouldn't sound too bad either. :(

Oh dear, Lauwersoog is placed in a location that disrupts your expansion quite badly. Not only will it place cultural pressure on you, but it will connect to future Dutch towns; their seafaring trait will help them settle many more towns on 'your' land. So I eagerly await, what you're going to do.
I understand, but the settlers to make this city were brought there by land, not by sea.

BTW, IMHO, but correct me if I'm wrong, we should bring our settlers first in the grassland from the north of the free territory from our east. Because the AI's will try to bring settlers there ASAP, so I think we should grab the best lands we can. Maybe I'm wrong. Don't forget I haven't won on Sid (well but I also haven't lost on Sid ;)).

did I miss something, where is the save?

never mind found the save at uploads 12

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homeyg01_1000BC.SAV)

Pre-Turn
we're running 30% lux when 20% is enough. hope this wasn't set wrong for too,long as on sid you can't

afford this type of mistakes
MM properly and writing is down to 4 turns now without losing anything
chnage builds as I don't fancy regular mil builds
Bursa goes to rax for our mil builds

we need more workers in our palace city and join some else we lose the GL for sure

1. 1225BC
settler moves east as I want to grab more land there

2. 1200BC
join a worker into Edrine for size 5 now
we get another settler

3. 1175BC
we won't be able to get many cities in the east as the Dutch and soon Babs will grab almost everything

4. 1150BC
we get writing on for literature, then get the shock as Mongols START the GL already
I think we are doomed for that :(

5. 1125BC
found Aydin in the east to at least grab some land

6. 1100BC
we meet Korea and Zulu's in the east, Korea starts the GL as well
found Antalya

7. 1075BC
join another worker into Edrine, now size 6 with 2 MP's so lux still at 20%
palace now in 14
our capital now goes for a rax as there is no more space left to settle

8. 1050BC
zzz

9. 1025BC
Babs start Sun Tzu

10. 1000BC
situation:
literature due in 9, palace in 11, but we need to add 100 more shields to GL
thus, I suggest to merge more workers into city after we get lit since this requires high lux
we have a settler trying the luck to settle in the far east, but I think that would only result in flip

I started raxes and will finish 2 soon, suggest to go for a sword rush to attack Mongols after that

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homey1000.jpg

by the way, I am not very positive that we get the GL and sonce we have so little land, I think this game is over soon

Ouch! Good luck, and judging from your position, you'll really need it.

too bad ugly started on the GL.

means that if he gets it and not us, we need go get it.

so, starting on a few raxs, and planning a sword rush is a good idea.

i dont plan on giving up if we miss the GL.
ill go down fighting cursing with my last breath...
oops, right sentence, wrong thread... ;)

If you have the money, maybe you should buy literature. It might let you get the GL!

If you have the money, maybe you should buy literature. It might let you get the GL!
good idea!
should have thought about it myself.

is it possible?

Yeah, luck is really what you need; now all the AI, basically, 'have' literature since they trade it away without care. So 7 AI 'building' the GL against what you have now. Good luck.

doesn't help us at all as we have to complete the GL first and it's palace prebuild + 100 shields. i can't see how buying lit should help here?

Lurker:

No buying it is not useful as you already are building it. It would only help if you were to finsih the build before your projected learning of Lit.

The problem is that they need 160 shields while you need 400, if the price is 400. So basically you must be making twice the shields they are or get a big enough head start.

As ThERat points out, the best way to do that is to get it timed right and add workers into the city. You then have a chance to do nearly twice the shields they will.

You still have to face the problem that some cascade will occur. I don't know if that is hanging over your head here or not. I like to check on what wonders are being worked on, to see if they will finish before the AI get Lit.

That is not going to be the case as they already have it, or at least the Mongols have it. I forget if you are on contients or pangea, it is pretty much a lost cause to try to beat them to it on pangea with full civs. They just get those contacts so fast and roar throught AA techs.

How much spt is Edrine making? If there's 100 shields left, and there's high enough spt to finish before any AI wonders or the GL complete, you might get a chance.

Doesn't where the AI chose to build the GLib matter most? And if you can't beat them, (check with embassy) then you'll have to seize it and hold it for only 1 turn. :mischief:

It couldn't be too hard after amassing catapults, spears, and archers. (against pikes and meds) :lol:

Doesn't where the AI chose to build the GLib matter most? And if you can't beat them, (check with embassy) then you'll have to seize it and hold it for only 1 turn. :mischief:

It couldn't be too hard after amassing catapults, spears, and archers. (against pikes and meds) :lol:

Lurker:

Yes and No. It sort of matters, but only if they do not switch cities and I have seen that a few times on Sid. I was crusing along and knew they were building a wonder in a very poor town and then all of a sudden it is going up in the capitol.

As to not being too hard, all assaults are hard on Sid. First you need to know where the wonder city is located and then get to it and then defeat it and finally hold it a turn.

Right now you do not even know what civ will have the GLB. It could end up some civ you have yet to met will finsih first, then what? If you survive long enough to take it from a far away place, you probably don't really need it.

doesn't help us at all as we have to complete the GL first and it's palace prebuild + 100 shields. i can't see how buying lit should help here?

It won't...

choxorn, two turns will not make a difference when it comes to 100 shields.

Also note the cities, all of the civs except for the Dutch have reached the MA, so we are pretty far behind. If we get the GL and they have researched Education already, that's as far as that will take us.

As to not being too hard, all assaults are hard on Sid. First you need to know where the wonder city is located and then get to it and then defeat it and finally hold it a turn.

This is just from personal experience, but taking a major city on SID is pretty much the hardest thing you will do in your life, especially if you have out dated units (at least we do have swords, though).

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat - just played
4. classical_hero - up
5. Beorn-eL-Feared - on deck
6. homeyg

Sword rush + MA with Dutch? It could work...

@homeyg: I was talking about would that cause any wasted shields.
@Ansar: It might, but the dutch might take the GL city. Plus, they might build the GL, in which case you would have to ally with the Mongols or Zulu.

@homeyg: I was talking about would that cause any wasted shields.

Wastage isn't really an issue in this situation, once we get Literature, we are changing to the GL whether we get Literature early or not, and we still have quite a bit of shields to go for the GL.

Okay then forget it. But you now need to make a plan for if you don't get the GLB.

Okay then forget it. But you now need to make a plan for if you don't get the GLB.we will get a slightly expensive library there :cool:
but we have no choice but to take on Mongols to get rid of that culture threat and later capture the GL, if we would be lucky and it get's built on our continent.

by the way, the 2nd continent is ridiculously close as we can see from the borders in the south.
maybe that is another reason for the super fast tech speed...

Looking at that last screenie, Edrine and Uskudar are both fliprisks, which could really stuff up your prebuild, Iznik is a huge fliprisk, and also hugely increasing the chance of invasion. Founding a city 2 tiles from a Sid AI city is asking to be attacked. I'm very surprised the mongols haven't declared on you yet, they might be at war with someone else.

Preturn. Not much. I envision a war with the Mongols will be a good thing for us once we get some swords because they lack Iron and if we get going we can do some damage.

Turn 1. Bursa builds barracks.

IBT. We give the Dutch 15 Gold since they demanded it.

Turn 2. Not much just moving some workers around.

IBT. Not much.

Turn 3. Istanbul builds barracks.

IBT. This happens.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4466/glibvl1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I will finish here just to see what everyone else thinks, because we are very much in a deep hole and might not get out it. If we do play on, then I will play the rest of the saves since it is my rest of the set.

we are royally Phooked.

last seen map doesnt show babs anywhere near us,
probaly off the landmass somewhere.

we could try and fight on till were dead in the water.
just to se how long we can last.

IBT. This happens.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4466/glibvl1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


That's bad. Looks like war with Babylon is inevitable.

Well yes, war with Babylon is inevitable, but I would recommend attacking the Mongols first, since the Dutch look much too powerful to take on. a Military Alliance with the Dutch would be good against the Mongols and then against the Baylonians. :hammer: :devil:

:( :( :(

@choxorn: I agree, but how are we going to get to them in time?

Again, :(

And some more: :( :( :( :( :(

As long as you can get the babs before you research education, the GLB will get you some nice techs!

*groans*

Well, it's up to you guys if ya'll want to keep going. :(

I mean, right now we have basically no military (a few warriors, right?) and the AI is only gonna keep advancing. We would have no time to build up 50 swords or something like that.

A defeat on SID is much more rewarding than a victory on Monarch (with these settings, at any rate ;) )
When it's my turn I'll play :p

sword rush and trying to take some Mongol cities, maybe we can extort some techs and get to chivalry somehow, then take on the GL city with knights...

A defeat on SID is much more rewarding than a victory on Monarch (with these settings, at any rate ;) )
When it's my turn I'll play :p

Shouldn't that say much more educational? :p But yeah, I'd agree with ThERat if I was playing, try and dig yourself out of the hole, you will learn plenty. Spoilered for actual advice on the digging: You guys are currently cashed up, yeah? Your first target is clearly mongolia, therefore you need to thin out their troops. Embassy with mongolia, declare on your most distant contact, ally mongolia in, even if you have to pay huge gpt. mongols should trek off to war, 20 turns+ of min research and sword stockpiling, then attack the mongols. Your first opponent might even give you stuff to join in, they will often pay you to join an alliance.

That plan sounds great! If the most distant is the babs, maybe they can help you take Eridu!

Hey sana ! been a while :)
Of course, educationnal, with that kind of plan ;)

Hey sana ! been a while :)
Of course, educationnal, with that kind of plan ;)

Well, yeah. Alternatively you can keep all appendages tightly crossed that the mongols don't decide to obliterate you, and desperately stockpile swords. Much better more educational to be proactive and dead than waiting for the end.

Definite shortage of SGs around, might be time to start a couple more. This time we can actually finish them. And I haven't played RaR since my last SG fizzled I think. Any bright ideas for new SGs?

No RaR. I dont think many people play RaR anymore...so normal SG's.

I'm all in for RaR, almost made my last one RaR, too.

I'm all in for RaR, almost made my last one RaR, too.

Sid RaR? Must win with 4 VCs at once? :groucho:

Sid RaR? Must win with 4 VCs at once? :groucho:

:eek: You are insane.

:eek: You are insane.

:groucho: Well yeah. If you meet me at a collingwood game you can confirm it. But please read http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=114186

jh;kj;klj;hjkhjhkj

I want to continue without you, even if we do lose. Here is the rest of my turnset.

Turn 4. Not much, but I am starting to get swords Mass produced for our coming war.

IBT. Babs and Koreans are building Leos.

Turn 5. Not much.

IBT. More troops are moving through our territory.

Turn 6. Istanbul builds a Sword.

IBT. More of the same.

Turn 7. We get Lit and we lose 277 shields in Edrine to build a library. :sad: I start on the wheel to see if we have any Horses in our sight.

IBT. The Babs lose out to the Dutch and lose two settlers.

Turn 8. Not much.

IBT. I rebutt the Babs for 21 gold and they do not attack.

Turn 9. Istanbul builds anothe sword.

IBT. Zimbabwe builds AoW.

Turn 10. Aydin has built a curragh.

I am suprised that noone has even declared on us yet. Perhaps we can fight our way out of it. We have one more turn of the Wheel before we can go onto something esle. What Government shall we become, or is this thinking to far ahead?

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/homeyg01_750BC.SAV)

IBT. The Babs lose out to the Dutch and lose two settlers.
So the Babylonians are in war against the Dutch?

It seems so.

Alright, I'll stay, sorry about that.

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat -
4. classical_hero -
5. Beorn-eL-Feared - up
6. homeyg

Dutch and babs fight? I rather see Dutch fight Mongols to make the task easier for us..Dutch look big, let's hope they won't gobble up the GL city

1. Mirc
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat -
4. classical_hero -
5. Beorn-eL-Feared - up
6. homeyg

Dutch and babs fight? I rather see Dutch fight Mongols to make the task easier for us..Dutch look big, let's hope they won't gobble up the GL city

More spoilered advice. Agree completely with ThERat. Embassy with mongols, ally with mongols v Dutch or Babs, whoever is least likely to target you. Dutch or Babs will likely give you money or tech to join in their war, then you use that to get the mongols in too. Stockpile swords, while holding off dutch/babs, then smite the mongols, then off you go to conquer the rest of the world. I'll definitely continue to lurk this one.

Here's an idea: send a sword SoD to Eridu, then sign MA with Dutch vs. Babs, then use money you get from that (which you probably will, since Dutch are the ones fighting) dogpile some AI's on to babs. Just make sure you can get Eridu!

P.S.
Later, use that trick on the Dutch and Mongols, except with MPP's... :mischief: :mischief:

So you suggest a sort of RoP rape that does not involve an actual RoP with the opponent? It should work. The only problem, the Babs are dead.

So now you've got bigger civs that research faster. And now, they're way ahead of you. So ahead, your troops don't quite match up. So only if you're lucky will the MPP wars work in your favor.

Here's an idea: send a sword SoD to Eridu, then sign MA with Dutch vs. Babs, then use money you get from that (which you probably will, since Dutch are the ones fighting) dogpile some AI's on to babs. Just make sure you can get Eridu!

P.S.
Later, use that trick on the Dutch and Mongols, except with MPP's... :mischief: :mischief:

I agree with choxorn. If we really want to get the GL we will have to do something like this. Forget the Mongols for now, if we try to start a war with them, we will be destroyed very fast, even if there is another civ involved.

Before I take it:
Tech plans? We have gone for the military techs so far, which is alright since it's what we'll do, but on the turn of my first turn I'll have to decide upon what to go for next. We have horses, so we could do WC-HBR, but catapults also are valuable. I'm for HBR then maths since we have barracks in a lot of places already or almost up.

Also, when do we start feeling alright for a war? The 'spare' dutch moving around, alone, overpower us for now, so I'm not sure if the declaration could be safe in my set. By the end of it we should have a half dozen ready-to-go troops however. This would be enough to withstand an AI rag-tag assault but not a SoD.

Finally, we should get a definitive call on wether or not to do the whole orchestrated deed with a sword stack at the doors of Eridu. This gives a completely different timeframe to everything.

Will resume when I have the team's go.

Um... I kind of meant you keep the SoD outside of Eridu's culture borders. Then, move them in after declaration.

Before I take it:
Tech plans? We have gone for the military techs so far, which is alright since it's what we'll do, but on the turn of my first turn I'll have to decide upon what to go for next. We have horses, so we could do WC-HBR, but catapults also are valuable. I'm for HBR then maths since we have barracks in a lot of places already or almost up.

Why horseback riding? Get catapults for now.

I'm not a SID player but ..
I think homeyg is right, you can build some Archers untill you get HBR. Do you guys have an IW + Iron resource around ? it would be much effective than rushing with horsemen.

i have to be devils advocate here.
i would go for ponies.
they can retreat. and that goes along way out!

math is for sissies!
and if we cantbeat themwith ponies, we will be crushed anyway.
might aswell bet all we have...

I'm not a SID player but ..
I think homeyg is right, you can build some Archers untill you get HBR. Do you guys have an IW + Iron resource around ? it would be much effective than rushing with horsemen.

Yes, we have a connected iron source! I find horseman to be one of the most worthless units in the game, but that's just my opinion.

But you can upgrade the Horseman, to Knights and then Cavalry... :mischief:

Um... I kind of meant you keep the SoD outside of Eridu's culture borders. Then, move them in after declaration.

That's what I said/meant in my interpretation.

And 'pults are compatible with slow units and defensive ones (as well as 5 billion year old earth). So if you want horses, you'll really only be building horses.

I don't know myself, but I'd prefer the slow units for some reason. 'pults just look attractive.

Alright, slow movers.
Now, ETA on the war?

Alright, slow movers.
Now, ETA on the war?

When we feel we have enough units. Obviously not right now.

Alright, slow movers.
Now, ETA on the war?
circa 15-20 turns :confused:

But you can upgrade the Horseman, to Knights and then Cavalry... :mischief:

Well you right, but you should not forget that they're playing on SID not Warlord/Chieftain . you can't spend a lot of money just for upgrading unless you got Leonardo's Workship ( I think it is ) , but still you won't upgrade if you ARE NOT technology advanced and you still buy techs from the AI .


If you've an Iron, and you are againts horsemen building then go producing swords and pults. and also put some defensive units in your armies .
well that's just my opinion . :crazyeye:

You can probably afford to upgrade some of the Horsemen, and it's probably cheaper than building Knights from scratch. And you're going to need Cavs in the Industrial age.

T1.
IT
Good news, kinda:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1874/homey2lb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

T2.
Swords getting pumped

T3.
Should we wish to be eaten alive by the Dutch military, we could MA with the mongols ;):p

T5.
The babs are launching LB attacks on the eastern Dutch peninsula, but in the W we see the dutch are fully Feudalism-equipped with swisses, MDI's and soon to be a GA.

T7.
Whip the Library in Iznik: it grows well and is happy enough, but has low production and more cities demand immediate worker actions.

IT
RNG sides with the mongols: a reg warrior kills a MDI going 3/4 HP, then defends and dies against another MDI this time the MDI gets 2/4. The 2/4 MDI dies to a vet warrior and a vet horse takes out a vet swiss on flat lands. Good Job Temu ! :thumbsup:

T8.
Research on Currency

IT
Overconfident, Temu launches a warrior/archer stack on a 1/4 swiss and the swiss gets out 2/5 :lol:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1083/homey3yu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

End notes:
If we keep everything still, we need not increase lux and we can keep Istanbul size 7 by making workers on growth. I think I left the BO to do just that, sorry for the queue as it's unorthodox to pass it on like this but I keep forgetting to remove these things. Babs and Mongols fight the Dutch and it doesn't seem like the Dutch are going to flinch.
We could side with the dutch and grab the 2 pesky cities (1 bab 1 mongol) inside our borders OR we could side with everyone else and try to prevent the Dutch from becoming a huge, insane monster of a runaway civ.

The pesky cities are probably easier to get overall.

Got it.

1. Mirc - on deck
2. soul_warrior
3. ThERat
4. classical_hero
5. Beorn-eL-Feared
6. homeyg - up

yoo.
pesky town would be easier, and willie isalready a fiery pain in the rear.
might aswell duck and pray he wont like to invite us for dinner.

lets munch on the roadkill, bidding our time

let's get them Mongols. Not only should we be able to get those 2 towns, we might want to grab more westwards before the Dutch do.
I would go for war now!!!

The mongols' best unit seen is the horseman, Bab's LB FYI, so yeah, mongols are going down.

let's get them Mongols. Not only should we be able to get those 2 towns, we might want to grab more westwards before the Dutch do.
I would go for war now!!!

With only 7 swords?

7 swords and a catapult, please ;)

Umm, from my experience at Sid and even lower levels, you don't survive with 7 swords, a few warriors, and a catapult...

I bet the mongols have an MA with the RNG vs. The Dutch or something :lol:

Umm, from my experience at Sid and even lower levels, you don't survive with 7 swords, a few warriors, and a catapult... if we would try and take on the Dutch, yes, but Mongols are losing to the Dutch already, thus their defenses are pretty depleted. This is our chance to be opportunistic and grab some border towns. We are not going after his core. And remember while we have 7 swords only, we do have more by the time our army reaches the cities.
Playing Sid, only the bold survive. if we are too meek, we will lose to a SS very soon (or dimplomacy)

These 7 swords are but the tip of the iceberg. By the time we get out of our borders, we'll have nearly twice as many and a few catapults (slight exageration but hey, the mongols are falling, they will give several towns against this much and we're giving it a go)

If you're feeling realy bold, maybe you could try to ingore their units and head straight for the cities, then make peace before (if at all) their stacks reach your land. Most probably they won't have any units to attack you, but it's still a gamble.

Playing Sid, only the bold survive. if we are too meek, we will lose to a SS very soon (or dimplomacy)Unless you play meek all the way ;)

Playing Sid, only the bold survive. if we are too meek, we will lose to a SS very soon (or dimplomacy)

or 1 of the AI's will get bored and destroy your puny nation.

This is kind of embarassing, but I'm going to have to skip myself.

I have serious computer problems, skip me too.

Nevermind... I'm playing right now.

550 BC - Everything looks fine, I'm planning to pump more swords for about 5 more turns, and then try and take some cities. A few Dutch swords seem to be heading towards Dalandzadgad, they might be able to help us out in taking it for ourselves.

IBT: All Dutch units retreat into their own territory, 3 Mongol spears cross into our border.

Turn 1, 530 BC - Movements.

IBT: HAHA Mongols ask for alliance against the Dutch, yeah right man.

Turn 2, 510 BC - Movements. Change one citizen in Izmit to scientist, I don't want to raise the luxury slider for 1 city.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 3, 490 BC - Nothing.

IBT: ?????????????????????????????

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/hg1-05.JPG

Turn 4, 470 BC - Nothing.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 5, 450 BC - Building up.
IBT: Nothing.

Turn 6, 430 BC - Building up.

IBT: Nothing, crap load of Dutch units are going after that 1 Babylonian city.

Turn 7, 410 BC - Nothing.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 8, 390 BC - Declare on Mongols next turn. There are tons of Dutch troops pouring into our territory.

IBT: Nothing, more Dutch troops.

Turn 9, 370 BC - Declare war, send a stack with 10 swords and 2 cats towards Ulaanbaatar.

IBT: Aydin flipped to the Dutch. We lose 3 swords.

Turn 10, 350 BC - Musketmen appear in Ulaanbaatar. I'm going to stop here. What do we do now? I don't think we have any chance against muskets, and probably soon it will be rifles.

__

I'm still on skip... :(

Edit: 3600th post!!! [party]:dance::rockon:[party]:band:[party]

Flip, painful. We need to somehow get a notch off the Dutch or I won't get a next set to talk about it.

What defensive bonuses does the musketman have? I'll go check the combat calc- your chances of winning might not be that bad.

What defensive bonuses does the musketman have? I'll go check the combat calc- your chances of winning might not be that bad.

It won't matter, I can tell you right now that we don't have enough units to over power them.

Musketmen + 50% (city bonus) + 25% (fortified)

Comes out to equal 7 vs. our 3. We have a 3 out of 10 chance of winning.

I'm afraid it's worse than that, homey.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/CombatCalc.JPG
Good luck, but you're screwed.

Our swords are vet and the musket is reg. With one or two HP hits from catapults it wouldn't be as bad, and we need that town. If it isn't there, it'll be as bad elsewhere anyways.

Our swords are vet and the musket is reg. With one or two HP hits from catapults it wouldn't be as bad, and we need that town. If it isn't there, it'll be as bad elsewhere anyways.

We have 2 catapults - and none did any damage.

Okay then, you have about a 1 in 4 chance of winning. Too bad the Catapults did nothing- a 4hp sword vs. a 2hp musket has a 45% chance of winning, while a 4hp sword vs. a 1hp musket has a 75% chance of winning.
In other words, without any damage from the pults, it will take 2-4 swords to bring down the musket.

with the hope that there is JUST THE ONE MUSKET.
peering into the crystal ball.... watching those 4 muskets wake up from thier afternnon nap....

I guess so. You'll probably need at least 15 swords.
In other words- you're screwed! (Also, time to capture Eridu (for GL elevator) and dogpile on Babylon!)

with the hope that there is JUST THE ONE MUSKET.
peering into the crystal ball.... watching those 4 muskets wake up from thier afternnon nap....

Nope, with the amount of cash the AI keeps around on Sid, I'm sure it's more than one musket :(

Is anyone playing? ;)

Mirc should be up.

Does anyone still want to play this game? It's been a month, so it seems as if interest has been lost.

I'm in a limited handful of civ games as it is and I like it that way, more and I'd get bored. Overplaying does that to you. Tough luck.

Well, it seems as if this is SG has died. Damn it, it was fun to watch!

Well, it seems as if this is SG has died. Damn it, it was fun to watch!
Then why did you bump it? :confused:

If it's dead, you dont need to remind other people that's it's dead. :rolleyes: