I just want to say thanks to Brad Oliver for coming here and checking out what people are saying about the game. We all appreciate the hard work you do.


Powermac G4 Digital Audio (powerlogix dual 1.3 Ghz)
Radeon 9800 pro 256 VRAM

I know I am no where near the minimum specs on this game but it runs pretty well on small maps. :)

I'll second that! Many thanks, Brad.

Wow.

You pay $55 for a terribly ported game and you feel indebted to the idiot who made it.

Lest we forget, he was so clueless that his boss (herself a real winner) had to tell him to get over here and pander to you people.

Wiglaff, why are you being so cynical?

I don't think anyone in the forum appreciates your attitude.

This "idiot" ported Age of Empires II, Alpha Centauri (along with the OS X port which I believe he did in his free time) Jedi Knight II, and macMAME. He not only peruses this forum constantly but Inside Mac Games as well. He's extraordinarily accessable. I remember I had an issue with AC a while back, and he shot me back an email really fast.

I don't think you realize what an outrageously complex game Civ IV is. It's bound to have issues––the game was a mess when it was first released on the PC. The code never was very good to begin with.

Folks don't realize how small the Mac game industry is. When a preteen "wit" says something about someone they don't know just to be hurtful, it may seem cool but I'll bet they end up regretting it one day.

Brad is one of the truly good guys. And Glenda is one of great gals.

I suspected that 10.4.7 might be the problem when I started a thread here and I am so glad that Brad is on the case.

By the way...except for the sound thing, the game plays pretty great on my MacBook Pro. And it is a wonderful game.

Lance

This "idiot" ported Age of Empires II, Alpha Centauri (along with the OS X port which I believe he did in his free time) Jedi Knight II, and macMAME. He not only peruses this forum constantly but Inside Mac Games as well. He's extraordinarily accessable. I remember I had an issue with AC a while back, and he shot me back an email really fast.

I don't think you realize what an outrageously complex game Civ IV is. It's bound to have issues––the game was a mess when it was first released on the PC. The code never was very good to begin with.

It's great that Aspyr has a buddy-buddy type guy who hangs out with you guys on the forums. Otherwise you might actually hold them accountable for being so incompetent ;)

Folks don't realize how small the Mac game industry is. When a preteen "wit" says something about someone they don't know just to be hurtful, it may seem cool but I'll bet they end up regretting it one day.

Brad is one of the truly good guys. And Glenda is one of great gals.

I suspected that 10.4.7 might be the problem when I started a thread here and I am so glad that Brad is on the case.

By the way...except for the sound thing, the game plays pretty great on my MacBook Pro. And it is a wonderful game.

Lance

Preteen wit? What are you on about now? I'd get personal with you, too, but I'm not quite presumptuous enough to guess your age.

I'd hate to hurt the feelings of one of the only people who works on Mac games these days. But then again, he's the one asking for your money...

You know you've got good public relations when people actually thank you after posting dozens of complaint threads about your product...

The code was never very good to begin with

??

What the hell?

It didn't work on some ATI cards. What else are you referring to? You're even making excuses for Brad now.

Have some balls. They took your money, you deserve the product.

And btw, Brad is mostly here to try to actually deliver the product (albeit quite late) ...and he needs you to do it!

Embarrassing.

Wiglaff - you are allowed to express your opinions, as long as they are constructive. However insulting people will not be tolerated.

Consider this your first and final warning.

Listen, half of this is discussion can be characterized as flamebait, but most of you, frankly, just purchased a shitty game for 50 dollars. I'm not blaming Brad, but you can't just eat up the 'it's all Apple's fault' line and go on with your life. You paid for a working product and you didn't get one. They didn't seem to test Civ4 successfully on an array of systems or set ups, or else the positive feedback rate wouldn't be so low. Yes, the Mac game market is very slim, and yes, Aspyr typically does a very good job with games. But just because we are in this situation does not mean we should have to eat chicken **** instead of chicken salad.

Listen, half of this is discussion can be characterized as flamebait, but most of you, frankly, just purchased a shitty game for 50 dollars. I'm not blaming Brad, but you can't just eat up the 'it's all Apple's fault' line and go on with your life. You paid for a working product and you didn't get one.... But just because we are in this situation does not mean we should have to eat chicken **** instead of chicken salad.Complaining about it is one option. Gets it off your chest, maybe makes you feel right. Or you can try to make the situation better, submit your saved games and system information and maybe get a better salad. Either way is a way of being and anyone has the ability to choose what they want to do.

Listen, half of this is discussion can be characterized as flamebait, but most of you, frankly, just purchased a shitty game for 50 dollars. I'm not blaming Brad, but you can't just eat up the 'it's all Apple's fault' line and go on with your life. You paid for a working product and you didn't get one. They didn't seem to test Civ4 successfully on an array of systems or set ups, or else the positive feedback rate wouldn't be so low. Yes, the Mac game market is very slim, and yes, Aspyr typically does a very good job with games. But just because we are in this situation does not mean we should have to eat chicken **** instead of chicken salad.

I am giving Aspyr and Apple the benefit of the doubt for the timebeing. Lest you interpret that as saying, "I'm rolling over and playing dead," think again. After all, I was the first on this forum to suggest that, in order for certain software companies to get over their penchant of using the paying public as their beta testers, they need to be subjected to expensive class-action lawsuits.

This applies to repeat offenders more than anything else and, as far as I know, Aspyr isn't such a firm. Which is exactly why I think they deserve a fair shot at fixing the problems before folks go off the deep end.

Gatekeeper

I recently played a whole game through. It wasn;t bad. Its not the best it can be but at least if you lower all the requirements it works and you can get some enjoyment out of it. That and its 10000 times better than CIV 3 in terms of AI and setup.

You know you've got good public relations when people actually thank you after posting dozens of complaint threads about your product...

that is a bit strange, i admit.

Give the guy a break for crying out loud. He didn't have to come here and post anything. You should thank him for trying to help.

Give the guy a break for crying out loud. He didn't have to come here and post anything. You should thank him for trying to help.

Haha. So in your universe, if a company releases a thoroughly shitty product, they are entitled to just ignore all customer complaints?

Don't go into business ;). If Brad didn't pander to you people, your confidence in him and, by extension, Aspyr would be non-existant by this point. He isn't doing you any favors. I'd imagine he needs all the loyal customers he can get.

It's icing on the cake that he has the balls to ask you people for help to fix the game, though. So what are you thanking him for, really? Making you all beta-testers? Nice.

Haha. So in your universe, if a company releases a thoroughly shitty product, they are entitled to just ignore all customer complaints?
So here you are suggesting that aspyr are ignoring customer complaints...... and then you are mocking people who come here to thank Brad for......... listening to their problems & complaints?

The reason this thread exists is because the developers are here trying to solve problems and help people.

Let me use an analogy since you are probably still confused.

If I sell you a brand new TV, but you don't know how to operate it, you might call me and say, "How do I use my TV"?

I have two options:

A) Ignore you, because I have your money

B) Explain to you how to use the TV properly.


Why would I do B? Pretty clearly, so that you would gain confidence in me and my products, and perhaps buy from me again.

What Brad is doing is actually different. He has sold you a TV that gets shitty reception. He has chosen a different option:

C) Call you back, and ask you for your help in fixing your TV.

You do not owe him ****.


So here you are suggesting that aspyr are ignoring customer complaints.....

Erm, no. I didn't say that. I said that if they did ignore complaints they'd lose business.

Come on, people. This is embarrassing...

It's obvious there are those here who have no history w/ Brad Oliver, or Aspyr for that matter. And, I don't mean just buying their games, but actually familiar with the extra efforts they do for nothing but in support of the mac gaming community.

If my mechanic whose been doing great work on my cars for years made a snafu, I certanily wouldn't blow up at him.

Now, I realize wiglaff's perception appears to lean more toward the business model applied here. I think. It's a little skewed because of his choice of vernacular.


C) Call you back, and ask you for your help in fixing your TV.

I doubt a tv repairman would just fix a tv w/ out first getting feedback from you on what the pronblem is. Also, any good doctor is going to enlist the help of the patient in dtermining the best course of treatment. Aspyr is doing what applies to their industry.

Options A & B really aren't worded well for this discussion, because everyone here knows how to install and start-up a computer game. I think. :mischief:

I thought you guys would all be so overjoyed that you're playing on a mac that noone would really care that the game doesn't actually work? Death to windows! Mac FTW!!

I don't think it has to do with the OS X 10.4.7 update as the sound issue, for example, can be replicated under 10.3.9 with QT 7.1.2. I will admit I have no history with Brad, however this could've been avoided if the game had been tested on a wider variety of systems (he could've even had some of the people on this forum test the game) not to mention that any company *should* be a member of ADC Select or higher which pre-releases 10.4.x builds (and soon 10.5 builds) to members to test for compatibility.

So I truly understand both sides of the... coin... shall we say, unfortunately I do think that Brad and his team need a better testing methodology at the same time the personal touch to, no-offense, avoidable problems we all are experiencing is a way to go.

I wouldn't normally pipe in to a thread such as this but, as a developer myself, I feel compelled.

while Brad probably had some say in the release date, I seriously doubt he could simply call up the CEO and say "sorry, we're not releasing this week because 10.4.7 came out and I need some more testing time."

the machinations of a large company revolve around more than just one guy so he's doing what he can to make the situation right. if anyone tells me that they have NEVER gotten a piece of buggy software, for which they payed money, I'm calling you a liar. and if you're a windows user you are DEFINITELY a liar (or you never pay for software, which means I could call you something else).

developers REGULARLY get the **** end of the stick by executives, marketing, advertising... they pick a ship date, which they hope is reasonable, and then they try to stick to it. so it didn't work out so well this time. when's the last time windows crashed on you and the guy who ACTUALLY WROTE THE CODE gave you a personal message and tried to make it right? that's what I thought.

I seriously doubt anyone is trying to imply that we don't expect our money's worth but to have THIS much contact and help on a game that has been in wild for less than a week is nothing short of phenomenal in the effort department from brad. many would think "whew, it shipped. time to crack open the champagne and go on vacation" but brad is doing what he can to make our enjoyment of the game everything it can be, even in the face of what must be a total shitstorm of bad PR and broken software updates.

good for him and shame on you.

I wouldn't normally pipe in to a thread such as this but, as a developer myself, I feel compelled.

while Brad probably had some say in the release date, I seriously doubt he could simply call up the CEO and say "sorry, we're not releasing this week because 10.4.7 came out and I need some more testing time."

Very true, however 10.4.7 builds have been available for 3-4 months now via ADC, with the proper test beds in a large company you speak of, they could've been atleast aware of the issue and produced some sort of patch or workaround by now. Yes deadlines are a pain (I deal with them as well), however in a proper testing environment some of these problems (such as the sound problem) could've been detected and on their way to becoming fixed.


the machinations of a large company revolve around more than just one guy so he's doing what he can to make the situation right. if anyone tells me that they have NEVER gotten a piece of buggy software, for which they payed money, I'm calling you a liar. and if you're a windows user you are DEFINITELY a liar (or you never pay for software, which means I could call you something else).

I am sure we all have received buggy software (hell 10.4.7 non a was buggy :-)) however at the same time its almost embarrasing to get problems fixed by not being aware of them and having the community beta test and some reinstall Mac OS X on multiple times on their machine to see if its working or not. In a proper dev environment you could have multiple netboot images hosted on a Xserve with various 10.4 builds and boot into each one with a single machine and rule out if the problem is there or not, instead the community has to do this.


developers REGULARLY get the **** end of the stick by executives, marketing, advertising... they pick a ship date, which they hope is reasonable, and then they try to stick to it. so it didn't work out so well this time. when's the last time windows crashed on you and the guy who ACTUALLY WROTE THE CODE gave you a personal message and tried to make it right? that's what I thought.

I seriously doubt anyone is trying to imply that we don't expect our money's worth but to have THIS much contact and help on a game that has been in wild for less than a week is nothing short of phenomenal in the effort department from brad. many would think "whew, it shipped. time to crack open the champagne and go on vacation" but brad is doing what he can to make our enjoyment of the game everything it can be, even in the face of what must be a total shitstorm of bad PR and broken software updates.
good for him and shame on you.

Yes I praise Brad for what he is doing and getting involved with the community, however I stand by the fact that half these problems could've been detected or avoided. Brad hopefully has some sort of multiple machine test bed where he should be able to test out builds of his machine. It truly isn't that difficult with a Mac to have the ability to boot into multiple OS X versions and see if the game acts differently in that environment. Apple makes this pretty easy with NetBoot.

So yes you are right its great that developer is communicating with the users using the software, but really using the 10.4.7 release is almost a BS excuse only because Apple releases these builds on the their ADC website and I am pretty sure that any development company is willing to fork over $500 per year for the ADC Select membership which includes Software seeding (aka access to the latest Apple pre-release software).

I agree with Lateralis ... look, this product was released the last week in June. That should be a big red flag to everyone that Aspyr DESPERATELY wanted the product out by the end of the quarter, which yes, ends June 30th. The development team had a drop dead date and they hit it ... by taking some major short cuts, such as not testing it on later Tiger releases. Don't blame the developers, blame the beancounters.

Aspyr is not alone. Anyone else try NFL Head Coach from EA? Total piece of crap obviously rushed to market without testing to hit a June deadline. I don't blame the developers in either case, I blame the execs who cared more about meeting release dates than getting a gold master product that deserved the designation.

But at least in the case of Civ IV, it's possible to get things right. EA won't do a damn thing to compensate the Xbox and PS2 users who bought their crappy game and returned it the next day. That's a case where a class action suit needs to happen.

For the record, I have an iMac G5 2.1 Ghz and yeah I have the sound issue but don't really care about that ... what bothers me is that I like to play big games with lots of civs on a huge map and I'm at about 1650 ad and the game takes more than 2 minutes to advance to the next turn. Is this issue ever going to get addressed or do I need to boost the ram and overclock the X600? I need some guidance.

One final question -- is there any way to get Civ IV mods to work on the Mac version? Could I do something tricky like make the Civ IV directory shareable within Virtual PC so that the .exe files will work?

let me just clarify fully my position -

am I upset that aspyr released a buggy game? -- YES
do I wish it didn't happen? -- YES
do I think that EVERYONE at aspyr could have worked together to avoid it? -- YES

was I making a comment about wiglaff acting like Brad is completely responsible and belittling him and his work? -- YES YES YES

One final question -- is there any way to get Civ IV mods to work on the Mac version? Could I do something tricky like make the Civ IV directory shareable within Virtual PC so that the .exe files will work?
If the mod uses a .exe it's most likely an installer for a bunch of graphics and/or Python and/or XML files.

If it's an installer then you need some way to persuade it to give up its contents so that you can drop them into your Civ4/CustomAssets/ folder. That may be possible using Virtual PC to run the installer into a shared folder on your system.

If the mod itself uses a .DLL - a Windows executable file - then there's no way it will run with the Mac version, as the Mac version will have no software interface that can communicate with it.

The way I see it, it's like this...

It's pretty obvious there's been a foulup on Civ4. I don't pretend to know exactly what or why, but my guess is that it was rushed out the door too fast without proper QA work and beta testing. If that's so, that would perhaps be more of a corporate decision than a programming one.

Aspyr has in the past had a good record, so I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is a black mark on them, but they have plenty of time to fix it. If this becomes usual for their new releases I won't be pleased, but since it isn't typical of them I doubt it would be.

I don't see a whole lot of reason to thank Brad for the code, since the game is riddled with bugs and he's paid for his work, which in this case I can't say I'm thrilled with.

I DO see a reason to thank him from coming onto the forums and spending time filling people in, asking questions, and basically providing more of a helpful and human presence than Aspyrs Customer Service people have mustered. He doesn't have to do it and he isn't paid to, I'm sure. Thank you, Brad, that's made this a lot more tolerable for me personally, and I appriciate the time you've put in.

My expectation is that in a month or two, after a patch flurry, Civ4 will be running just fine, and this will all be a memory. I can wait a few months; like I said, Aspyr has generally done well by me in the past, and I'm trusting they'll take care of me this time.

Would you rather buy a fixed game in September, or buy a mostly working game in july, and have it patched in September? I really don't see the functional difference between those. just being practical here.

Unless you have no confidence that Aspyr can eventually patch it (I doubt many of us here worry for the long term), or the game somehow damaged your computer, I really don't see what there is to be so irate about, certainly not to the point of personally insulting either the developer or members of the community here. I'm glad the game is officially out for macs, and I look forward to getting it even though I know it won't work perfectly on my powerbook (PC version wouldn't work at all on my windows laptop).

Given how common it is to have problems in the first version of anything, and if you know you are the kind of person to get really pissed off, maybe its better to wait and check out what people are saying before you rush and buy something on the first day it comes out. Hey, I just saved you an ulcer!

I seriously doubt anyone is trying to imply that we don't expect our money's worth but to have THIS much contact and help on a game that has been in wild for less than a week is nothing short of phenomenal in the effort department from brad.

Someone from Aspyr told him to check these forums because it was evident that his product was not working properly.

Out of curiosity...if your brand new televison exploded on you, would you feel indebted to the cable guy who comes to fix it?

How about if he handed you a wrench and said "let's fix this together."

If my mechanic whose been doing great work on my cars for years made a snafu, I certanily wouldn't blow up at him.

Mechanics fix problems they didn't cause ;)

I can understand not blowing up at Brad. But you people should get your head out of his ass and realize that you pay him. Realize he has a lot of reasons to make sure his product works. You are entitled to the product, and if you don't get it, you are especially entitled to people working to fix it.

Never argue with a fool, people might not be able to tell the difference.

The fools are the ones out $50 who are masochistically thanking the person who took their money. ;)

He doesn't have to do it and he isn't paid to, I'm sure. Thank you, Brad, that's made this a lot more tolerable for me personally, and I appriciate the time you've put in.

He is paid to program functioning games, not crappy ones. Aspyr and Brad have a vested interest in making Civ4 work. Why thank him for coming here and asking you to help fix the mess he created?

Well I have experienced bugs in first versions of programs that I have purchased... the whole sound thing is just whack. I mean, that's such an obvious bug... one that everyone would notice (including MacWorld!). Random crashed on various systems are hard to replicate... but no sound... on pretty much any system? That's just wrong.

Would you rather buy a fixed game in September, or buy a mostly working game in july, and have it patched in September? I really don't see the functional difference between those. just being practical here.


Well it's advertised as a functional game. So you pay $50 with the assumption that it works, not the assumption (which could very well be untrue) that it might work in the future on your computer.

wiglaff, I assume you are new here from you join date which would mean that you are unaware that brad has been coming here for YEARS. he may have been given a heads up that things were amiss this week but he has ALWAYS been a vocal member of this community and truly has made a HUGE difference. this is why he's getting thanked as much as the effort he's putting in right now.

Brad Oliver
Civ3/4 Mac programmer

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 610

Heh. Well, I'll just read the game manual and go online for gaming strategies, maps and whatnot until Civ IV Mac is properly patched. At that point, I should be able to start on the highest level and kick some AI butt.

Gatekeeper ;)

wiglaff, I assume you are new here from you join date which would mean that you are unaware that brad has been coming here for YEARS. he may have been given a heads up that things were amiss this week but he has ALWAYS been a vocal member of this community and truly has made a HUGE difference. this is why he's getting thanked as much as the effort he's putting in right now.

Brad Oliver
Civ3/4 Mac programmer

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 610


A lot of times, on forums like this, I see people complaining, badmouthing companies such as Firaxis, Apple, or Aspyr ; but then, when a rep from that company responds on the forum, everyone suddenly bites their tongue. "Oh, sorry, didn't mean to be so testy," etc. Everyone starts kissing ass.

This is an effective means of PR but I'm sure Brad isn't just some PR plant (at least, not all the time). He seems genuinely interested in your platform and your game and might be nice enough that he is your friend. I don't know, maybe.

Point is, right now, he is really screwing up. Not only has he been a key developer in a crap project, he has also enlisted you all to help him fix his screwup.

He has done nothing that warrants any thanks with regards to Civ IV, which is what the original poster claimed.

Brad is one of three programmers on the Civ IV Mac project.

All I'm saying is that :mad: :cry: isn't likely to get us an optimally working Civ4 any faster. Having the developers as active members here can only strengthen the mac civ community. If a person is unsatisfied, return the game, but don't burn our bridges for us.

I Has A Troll Mom Can I Keep Him????


:3

Thank you .... for changing to using civilized tones to discuss this topic. I realise that forums rules dictate that you should always behave in a civilized manner, and therefore you are only doing what you are required to do, so maybe there's no reason to say "Thank you". But I will anyway :p

We are where we are. Some may just want their money back, and to tell Aspyr never to ask for it again. Others may prefer that the game they bought is fixed as soon as possible. Aspyr know they have a problem, and regardless of what we think of the way it arose they are the only people who can fix it going forward. "Thank you" is just a civilized way to respond to and encourage someone trying to fix a problem, whoever created it in the first place.

If Aspyr can take advantage of historical good will that Brad has built up over the years to fix it sooner then that's their call. We can choose to tell them to go away and use their own resources to fix it, maybe taking longer, or we can help to provide diagnostic information, and maybe speed the process. And we can do either of these things politely or rudely. In my experience politeness gets better results, but YMMV.

However, it's clear that none of this debate is going to change anyone's mind :rolleyes:

Thank you .... for changing to using civilized tones to...

Wait, that word "civilized" that you use, it reminds me of something...
I remember this place on the net called "Civilization Fanatics' center" or somerhing... uhm, or are the two unrelated? :)
Both words start with "civiliz."

I think it would be useful for everyone who comes to CivFanatics to take a look at Brad Oliver's blog. This post in particular is very informative about the economics of Mac ports today in wake of Boot Camp and other (rapidly improving) technologies to run Windows on a Mac. Net-net, the guy makes his living porting games to Mac and that business could evaporate soon.

http://www.brad-oliver.com:8081/~boliver/blog/archives/000833.html

Also, take a look at this post regarding the difficulty of porting Civ IV to Mac. Hard not to sympathize with the guy given these facts.

http://www.brad-oliver.com:8081/~boliver/blog/archives/000810.html

Like many (err probably all) of you, Civ 4 is not working well on my Macs.

I agree with Wiglaff that if Aspyr "aspires" to sell a game that it should be playable.

In my opinion, civ 4 is not playable on my iMac g5 but it is playable on my Intel Macbook pro. In this regard the system requirements are probably misleading.

On the other side of the coin, I think it is critically important to support efforts to port games to the mac.

I, for one, am grateful for the efforts of Brad and Aspyr to port games to the mac.

I have a strong suspicion that the codebase for Civ is difficult to port. The fact that they developed with Direct X instead of OpenGL, or used proprietary Microsoft XML librariesis indicates a total disregard of portability. It is very unfortunate that Firaxis failed to utilize developers with some notion of platform portability. If you design for portability from the start, it is not nearly as expensive as if you ignore it completely.

Realizing that there is no way Brad could ever publicly comment on the code quality, we must give him the benefit of the doubt.

It may well be that the choice is either have a buggy, non-performing port or nothing at all.

In that case, I still prefer a slow, buggy $50 port rather than nothing.

Now I will return to playing Civ 4.....on the PC ;-)

Realizing that there is no way Brad could ever publicly comment on the code quality, we must give him the benefit of the doubt.



Brad talks about the enormous complexity of the code here (http://www.brad-oliver.com:8081/~boliver/blog/archives/2006_02.html).

It didn't work on some ATI cards. What else are you referring to? You're even making excuses for Brad now.

I don't mind the personal insults, but if you want to really stick it to me, feel free to do it in private. I have two dogs, two cats, a wife, and of course, a mother if you wish to include them in any personal attacks as well. ;)

I can be reached at "brad AT aspyr DOT com" or "bradman AT pobox DOT com". The former is more direct as it doesn't have layers of spam filters on it. For best effect, use all caps to really get my attention. :)

In my opinion, civ 4 is not playable on my iMac g5 but it is playable on my Intel Macbook pro. In this regard the system requirements are probably misleading.

I just posted another thread about this, but we did identify a serious performance problem that affects some (but not all - I'm sadly not afflicted) PowerPC-based Macs. I suspect yours is probably in that category, and we should have this fixed in the upcoming patch.

Just throwing in a thanks-brad myself. i remain convinced that having people from the organization that makes the software available directlly in the communities of most dedicated consumers should pay off for the development organization.

I have serious performance problems on my 1.8 GHz iMac G5, but I'm on Brad's side here. I appreciate that he is taking our complaints seriously.

Not really sorry to say, but wiglaff seriously needs to chill. In my experience, people with his kind of attitude think they're all that and hot ****, but most certainly, most everyone here is laughing behind his back.

The mere thought that most members of this forum are laughing at me behind my back simply makes me crap myself in embarrassment.

We want it fixed - we might as well help them as it will more quickly bring that about.

It takes very little time and just involves contacting support and posting here.

Aspyr shouldn't have released - they clearly released early for commercial reasons. Is that Brad's fault? Probably not.

You're such a time-waster; one of those sad people who bowls around message-boards, on a wind-up, trying to post as negatively as possible. You've got a lot of unvented anger (you're not ****ed up - just not quite happy with life) and this is a good outlet for you. Try and be useful and helpful, instead of being a turd and wasting people's time. It's so lame and so pointless. I doubt you'd have the confidence or presence to sit in a room with actual people and say these things to their face but you love the veil of anonymity and distance that a forum provides and abuse it with gay abandon, wasting your time and the time of those on this forum. Please - for your own sake and that of your family, get a life.

@Vitaboy and girtholomew:
Please stop making user-specific attacks.

This thread had moved on past the name-calling stage into a reasoned discussion, only to be dragged back down. Cease and desist.

Apologies....ceasing and desisting:goodjob:

I would like to join in this chant:

Thanx to Brad and his team for all the work in giving us Civ 4.

It was a rough launch due to the surprising OS 10.4.7. Update, but we can see you handle this issue with high engagement.

So thank you and keep up doing your great work :)