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Rhye
Jul 08, 2006, 03:09 AM
Here you can discuss about strategy.

Your contribution is appreciated here: http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Strategy_guides

Gunner
Aug 06, 2006, 12:37 AM
I figured that the best use of my 1000th post (:dance:) would be to start this thread off :cool:

Here is a mostly completed guide for Russia based on the experiences of my last two games on Emperor level as that country. I figure though that it should only work better for the other levels since they are easier. :p I've also chosen to not give them a strength rating (as was the custom for RoX guides) since I don't feel that I've played enough games yet to accurately assess that value.
Now without further adieu I present:


The Russians
By Gunner

So you want to rule the vast land of Russia – to follow in the footsteps of, and possibly even surpass, the likes of Ivan, Peter, Catherine, and Stalin? It will not be an easy task to guide Russia to greatness, and certainly not one for the weak. The rewards for your diligence and leadership will, however, be considerable. Russia has huge amounts of potential, and it should easy be able to ascend to supremacy if lead correctly.

The first thing you must learn is that the strength of your country lays in its land, the earth it will be built upon and achieve greatness on. It contains abundant resources which will allow your nation to grow, prosper, and eventually turn into an unstoppable war machine. For this reason it is key that you take an aggressive expansion policy early on to insure that the Germans and others do not claim the land that is right fully yours. Send at least two, preferably three, of your starting settlers west to take that land before it is taken by another. You can worry about expanding to the east later, but since you will not have any real competitor for that land it will not need to be with nearly as much urgency.

The only luxury resources available to you will be furs and then later on gems (there are some gems on the coast northwest of Moscow, its a good idea to build a city there just to get them.) To compensate for the relative lack of happiness that your cities will probably be experiencing because of this its a good idea to stay with Hereditary Rule for a while and use large numbers of cheap troops to garrison your big cities and keep them happy. Also don't forget that the market provides +1 happiness with furs and the forge provides +1 happiness with gems.

Another thing to keep in mind in the early game is that you will probably be receiving a visit from a group of barbarian horse archers from the east at some point, so be sure to keep a few troops in that area (preferably spearmen) to defend. You will also throughout the entire game need to be ready to deal with attacks made against you by the AI, especially since the AI in RFC is more aggressive. Obviously the Germans will be a threat due to their inherent aggressivness and their close proximity to your borders. Be vigilant against the threats which are not quite as obvious also, such as the Mongols and the Arabians. In one of my games I had the Arabians attack me with hordes of camel archers, taking 3 cities from me and nearly taking Moscow. Things would have been much easier if I had positioned a few troops on my southern border.

While Russia is blessed with great levels of production and growth, it main weakness lays in its poor capacity for commerce and trade. If you do not adopt the proper measures to counter this then you will find yourself falling behind in the technological race and with empty coffers, regardless of what type of strategy you pursue to victory. To that end, it is essential that you develop your county’s infrastructure with an emphasis on commerce and research. Do this by building cottages frequently and early, as they will be your tool to reach commercial parity with others. You must also focus on building libraries in all of your cities both for the technological benefits as well as the culture they provide. Finally, and most importantly, be very aggressive and active in the game of tech trading.

Tech trading is an important element for any civ in Rhye’s and Fall of Civilization, but for Russia it is absolutely essential. No matter what you do, your country will not be able to compete technologically in the early game if you primarily rely on your own research and engage in only the occasional tech trade. Once you fall out of the technological race it is very difficult to catch up, so it is essential that you make an effort to not fall behind early on. Make it a habit to check your foreign advisor’s technologies screen every turn or two to spot a potential trade. Sell techs for gold to civs that are far behind you, and try to buy, trade, and research techs that some of the top techers do not have. It will be difficult to keep up, but remember that if you have been properly developing your infrastructure (with many cottages and libraries) then things should gradually become easier.

Once your economy is in decent shape then you are presented with 2 main options. The first is to continue peacefully developing your nation. You can also start sending settlers out east to colonize the vast stretches of open land there. Try to build enough courthouses for the Forbidden Palace quickly since you will start paying extravagent maitinence fees once you start expanding. Given time you should come to dominate due to your sheer size.

The other option is to go on the warpath. Russia’s excellent production abilities make it very suited for building and maintaining a large army. You should be able to out produce any opponent you face and win in a war of attrition if necessary. Try and choose a weak country as your first victim, who this will be depends on each game’s situation. The wealth and resources provided by the conquest of another county’s heartland should add to your strength allowing you to take on a tougher opponent next time.

One final thing I would like to mention is Russia’s excellent unique unit, the Cossack. It is substantially more powerful than the default cavalry unit, with 3 extra strength points and a +50% bonus versus other mounted units. If you had already been following a military strategy it should give your efforts a great boost and maybe allow you to take a crack at that other superpower that you had been weary of facing before. If not, then the arrival of the Cossack would mark a great time for you to start some aggressive expansion. It would simply be a shame to waste such a great unit by not conquering someone with it. Additionally, if your game has not turned out as well as you had hoped and you find yourself lagging behind, then the Cossack is the opportunity you need to catch up.

Now go forth and bring Mother Russia to its rightful place of greatness. Its great capacity for production and expansion along with your skillful leadership should allow you to overcome early technological and commercial challenges and carry on to victory.

Gunner
Aug 08, 2006, 04:06 PM
Sooooo, any feedback?

This is what you wanted us to do Rhye, right? Write up nation specific strategy guides like for RoX

Elhoim
Aug 08, 2006, 04:14 PM
It is very good! Perhaps it is a little more poetic than practical, but it is a very interesting read! Mayhaps I´ll post some suggestions I made in the Pax Romana thread here, but I was hoping that people gave some opinions on them before posting here...

Gunner
Aug 08, 2006, 04:44 PM
Thanks Elhoim :)

I've gone back and added more stuff into it drawing from experiences in my most recent game. Hopefully its a bit more practical now :p

Rhye
Aug 08, 2006, 05:32 PM
aye, I want something like the RoX ones.

So, your is good except from being too long and for not mentioning the UP.
If you can fix these things I will start posting ;)

Don't worry about the rating, I'll just post the stars from in-game

Gunner
Aug 08, 2006, 06:55 PM
So, your is good except from being too long and for not mentioning the UP.
If you can fix these things I will start posting ;)
Hmm, too long and not mentioning something, seems like a bit of a contradiction to me :D

I'll see what I can do ;)

Edit: How long do you want it exactly. I saw that most of the guides for RoX were around 4/3 pages. Would it be alright if I got this one down to 3/2 with mentioning the UP?

Aeon221
Aug 24, 2006, 10:59 PM
Suggestions for Russia thingy:

Mention the massive grasslands, which make PERFECT cottage spams.

Mention the UP, which allows you to builder turtle with spear based units.

Russia should be the richest power in the game, bar none. You have tons of acreage of grassland covered with forest meaning you can cottage spam while chop rushing markets, libs, and courthouses. How tight is that? Very tight.

St. Petes, Minsk, and the Crimea make excellent primary city locations, which you can use as your first three cottage spams. They have enough prod to pump out units at a respectable rate, and all three will grow really big.

Keep pushing east, and feel free to gank China and Mongolia, as both countries usu. have an issue with teching. China is a ***** to take down, what with its hordes of infantry, but if you use enough arty (or wait til tanks and planes) you can squish them into the dirt. Remember that cottages are your lifeblood. If you want, call them mirs and feel even more like a Rusky.

Recommendation: Play as Greece to start your game, build up a big army, build a city up in the Crimea, and put the army there. Works as a great jump start for your Russian empire, as it will flip to you, and you can then use it to annex a nearly empty Greece. I discovered this by accident, and found it to be handy.

Not bad after half a bottle of JD, eh?

Tboy
Aug 31, 2006, 03:07 AM
To add to the russian guide:

Mention the importance of the spiral minaret, as the money it brings is often huge, and can save your research capabilities.

Jeppson
Sep 07, 2006, 07:11 AM
I have played about 6 games now as the japanese on emperor and I got to say its VERY hard. Only one game I have managed to be one of the top three through the game, which is the game im currently playing but havent finished yet.

First off you start on an island so no need to worry about for barbarian attacks. The first tech I go for is sailing, then alphabet. Build a galley and make contact with the indians. If a religion have spread to one of your cities do NOT convert. You need to stay freindly with asoka so you can get a open border agreement. Then you do the same thing with cyrus. You then want to make contact with Egypt and begin to trade your techs with them.Then you can travel with your galley through the seuzcanal if the egyptians have planted a city there to make contact with the european civs later.

The reason for this is that you dont want to piss off the chinese by trading with the indians, an early war with china must be avoided . And you dont want to trade with the chinese because remember this, China is your number one enemy and you dont want to share your reaserch with them.

I have found two very specific areas were you should place your first two cities. the first is two squares down from the starting position. The second is two sqaures two the right were eventually the copper resource will be. You only need those two cities on your main land to begin with. Then try early on to build two cities on the continent. One in korea, two sqaures above the rice field which will become a commerce city. Then a city a little to north of korea, left-down from the deer.

I usually try to grab the hanging gardens and great library, then i try to get a great engineer before i build the national epic in the city with the great library and begin to pump out scientists. You wont be able to build this wonders in every game, remember this is on emperor.

Focuse your reaserch on civil service and machinery so you can build samurais. Then simply build a massive army of these and some catapults, you also need a lot of galleys to transport your troops. Its very good to stay friend with the chinese until the mongols appear. Then you have the same religion and so so you ask the chinese to declare war on gengis and asoka. This shouldnt be a problem if you have traded your techs wisely so you have a lot of techs to offer the chinese. Then as the chinese are busy with their wars you simply wait a few turns for their troops to leave their country before you begin the massive invasion.

China is still pretty though to conquer despite they are at war with to others. Since thier cities are very culturally developed you have to conquer all of their cities on the mainland otherwise they will just flip back after or during the war. A good idea is to destroy their vulnarable horse resource since they like building horse archers which will become knights as soon as the reach guilds, and you really dont want to fight against knights. The resource is located west of beijing near the coast. Then they have a copper recource near macao and a iron resource east of beijing and if this to are destroyed they wont have much to set against you.

Once the chinese is conquered you have atleast 5 very good cities and two state religions, taoism and confusianism, and if your lucky they have a shrine also. And from here its up to you what to do but conquering the chinese when you are japan is in my opinion the single best thing you can do and it will keep you among the most powerful civs scorewise througout the game.

Rod
Sep 11, 2006, 05:53 AM
Egypt

The game as Egypt is tough on all levels. The first 50 turns of the game we are completely alone, as the Barbarians trap us in Egypt. After this turn other civilizations like Persia, Rome and Greece will rise very soon and they are advanced to us. Rome and Greece are also hostile towards us and we also have to deal with numerious Barbarians , who will treaten our homelands. The Sea Peoples, who are appearing from 1200 BC till 100 AD will roam the Eastern Mediterranian Sea and try to destroy our Fishing Fleets and our navy. After 200 AD (turn 130) Hordes of Bedouin Camel Archers and Horse Archers will set pace to our lands coming from the west. These attacks continue until 900 AD and its gets only worse when some guys called Arabs will decide to found Makkah as their capital, Islam as their religion and an army of Camel Archers as their basic arguments.
We can not avoid the Arabian Onslaught in 630 AD, as Egypt is an integrative part of the Islamic world and Kairo was THE center of science in the whole umma.

All in all to be frank Egypt in RFC is not meant to survive. But we can change that :)
It is a challenge, but it is possible. The key is to use our Unique Powers and Unique Units to best effect. Our Unique Power is that we start the game as a civilization and so we have Slavery and Hereditary Rule from the first turn enabled. That means we can whip and keep our people quiet with military presence. So we need big cities, which are growing fast .. we will found them.

But in order to do this every single step in the first turns is critical. We have plan exactly every single turn and every single decision. We have to know when to built what and on which place and when to research what. For this purpose I wrote this guide, which will make us survive all this dangers and lays the foundation for the middle game.

So we start our game as Hatchepsut, Pharao of Egypt and on level Emperor.

The start : Our starting technologies are Agriculture and Wheel. Our starting units are one settler and one warrior.
There are only 2 other civilizations : Chinese and Indian. They start with the same units. The Chinese have Mining and Agriculture, the Indians have Agriculture and Mysticism. Our first target is to outperform these competitors and to secure our Homelands.

1st turn : We start the game with one settler and one warrior. At first we do not found our capital instantly. We move to the sea. So go 1-1 (numpad) with the settler. Our warrior will explore the surroundings. So move him to the north east.
2nd turn : We will found our capital, but we do not use the tile which is highlighted. Instead we use the tile left to it. The highlighted tile is better, but we need to think ahead and later we will built Sin, which needs the critical two tiles that we now spare for it. In this case Sin will become very productive instead of being a mere placeholder and border defense.
So we move our settler 1 (numpad) and found the city. The name is Xou – I change the name now normally. We start to build warrior and research Fishing.
Our start unit warrior moves on until he reaches Sinai. There we can already see the borders of Yerushalem and inside are lots of units (7), especially 3 archers .. we are trapped for now.

3rd till 5th turn : we move our settler along the eastern coast to the south.

6th turn : Our cultural borders increase, which is important as now the tile with the wheat can be harvested.

10th turn : Our warrior now reached a lake in the Highlands of Ethiopia. He will have an encounter with an animal. We should survive this. In anyway at this lake, we have to turn west again.
Our warrior needs to roam around the later position of Niwt-Rst to keep the area free of predatory animals.

12th turn : We researched Fishing. Now we instantly change the production in our city to Work Boat. There are two rounds left for warrior, we will finish later. In the research we now go for Pottery. We need the granary and even more important the cottages.

14th turn : Our city grow to size 2, so we can rush the work boat.

15th turn : Our work boat moves to the fish tile and we start production of a worker. Our warrior moves westwards and discovers Elephants, that will be important later.

16th turn : The Nets are in place. Our exploring warrior should soon encounter another animal . Our city is now growing (producing worker) with 5 spare food. That is not bad :)

24th turn : The worker is finished we move him to our to wheat field and start farm next turn. In the city we can continue warrior.

25th turn : Our first warrior is produced, we start another one.

27th turn : We finished Pottery. We research Mysticism.

30th turn : The city grew to 2. We emphasize on growth (food), so make sure the buttons are activated and the wheat field is harvested. Our roaming warrior is cleaning the Nile Region from animals – this important for our later city.

33rd turn : Our Worker finished the farm. Don’t build a road. Our city will grow to 3 soon. So now move the farmer to the flood plains field south of the farm. There you start a cottage.

35th turn : Our city is 3 now, so we switch to settler.

39th turn : We finished Mysticism, so we go for Masonry.

41st turn : In our city we can now rush the settler. There is one warrior in our city. We send him the tile left of the incense, he will protect the settler, when he arrives on this tile. Our roaming warrior keeps on cleaning the area, too.

42rd turn : We finished our settler, so now we send him to the tile left of the incense. In the city we continue our warrior.

43rd turn : The now 3rd Warrior is finished, we start the 4th one. Our worker finished cottage, we move him to the flood plains tile north of our later city Niwt-Rst

44th turn : we found Niwt-Rst, our second city ! We already have one warrior together with the settler, so the city is protected. We start to produce worker in the queue. The worker on the northern tile starts a cottage.

46th turn : The 4th warrior is finished in our capital and the city reaches 3, so we start settler.

51st turn : Only two turns until masonry and the Greeks arrived so we need to check our results so far …

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/51388/egypt51-small.jpg

Rod
Sep 11, 2006, 05:56 AM
Egypt 2 - the next 40 turns

Turn 52 : Only turn until Masonry so at the end of the turn, we give the move order to our worker. He will move to the stone tile.

Turn 53 : Masonry is researched at last. We start to discover Animal Husbandery. Our worker will arrive on the stone tile and starts to build the so important quarry for our later Stonehenge.

Turn 55 : Finally we finished our second settler in our capital. This settler moves to Sinai (the desert hill tile, which connects the Red Sea and the Mediterranian Sea).

Turn 57 : In Niwt-Rst we finished our worker and we instantly move him to the stone tile. In the meanwhile we start Pyramids in Niwt-Rst.
Turn 58 : We can found Sin .. it will be become the gate to conquer Yerushalem later. In the production queue we decide for barracks.

Turn 60 : Our workers finished the quarry and we can move them to the marble tile. We also can move our roaming start warrior to Sin.

Turn 64 : We can rush Stonehenge in our capital and this is not too early. Stonehenge is an important part of our strategy as it saves us the obelisks either in Niwt-Rst as in Sin, which we need to reach the Copper and Horse Resources later.

Turn 65 : What a moment … our first world wonder and suddenly the world gets centered and we feel so small …

Turn 66 : Our workers finished the next quarry, which will make a production hub out of Sin. We let them start a road on the tile right of the marble.

Turn 67 : At least we discovered Animal Husbandery and we can start Mining. Horses pop up just between Niwt-Rst and Sin, but it will take a few turns, before the culture of this cities is strong enough to cover the tile.

Turn 69 : The workers finished the road and they move now to the tile with the horses.

Turn 70 : The workers start another road.

Turn 72 : The next road is finished and a short check tells us that the culture ratio is on 8 of 10 in both cities. That means we have two turns left and we should use them. There is still an unfinished cottage north of Niwt-Rst. (From turn 52, just north of Niwt-Rst). We move there now and order cottage.

Turn 73 : Mining is researched and we start Bronze Working. But there is more .. the next cottage is finished and it looks nice. We move our one worker who is free back on the horse tile as in next turn the culture borders will increase. His colleague will follow him next turn , too.

Turn 78 : There it is, our first pasture. Soon we can start to produce our War Chariots. The target is now to build an army of War Chariots to conquer Yerushalem and therefore to gain our religion : Judaism …
The now free worker will go to the desert hill tile right (east) of the horse pasture. His colleague will follow him next turn and they will build there our first mine. In the meanwhile we make sure that Niwt-Rst is using the Horse Tile, as we still want to let Sin grow a little more.

Turn 80 : Our capital is ready for army building. The barracks are finished and we start our first War Chariot.

Turn 81 : The Persians enter the game. Now the time to conquer our part of the Middle East is running out … but we are prepared and our targets are clear.

In the comparison we would see that we already catched up with the Indians in Infrastructure and City Size, but we are far behind the Chinese as they have simply too fertile areas in their homelands. We can’t help it.

But the odds are changing now in our favor. Thanks to our Unique Unit the War Chariot, we will be able to make some strategically important acquisitions and also to fill our treasury. The whole game long we will depend on deficit spending for research so just get as much gold as possible.

In the Persians we will find a very reliable and strong ally, so please by no means attack them, but just the opposite, make sure that they take Hattusa, as they will defend this town perfectly against the Greeks, who would otherwise treaten us. (Btw a strong (and non-islamic) Persia is also the best guarantee for a weak Arabia … and that is our only chance)
But all this will happen later.


Turn 83 : What a feeling. Our first Chariots rolls on the streets of our Capital. We leave it there for a while, as it keeps the citizen happy. As we maybe can notice our capital is getting quite big already (and as a side notice, the first cottage that we built long ago became a village in the meanwhile )

Our workers finished the mine, so we make sure that Sin is harvesting the mine now. The workers will build a road and btw. Sin finished the barracks, so also there we can start a War Chariot.

Turn 85 : The Romans founded their capital .. they will give us more than one headache later, but for now they are still weak and friendly.

Turn 86 : We researched Bronze Working and .. what a nice surprise .. our already built mine is exactly on a copper resource. (This is certainly a little cheating, but Egypt is really too hard, so I have too use my experience in order to plan ahead), besides the workers also finished the road exactly in this moment, so we can move them one tile north of the horses and to build a cottage there.

In the research we go for Sailing and in Niwt-Rst we shift from the Horse Pasture tile to a flood plains tile as we want to grow to 4 soon.

Turn 90 : We can rush the Pyramids in Niwt-Rst as the city size is big enough and the production is also advanced enough.
In the meanwhile we can already send one Chariot from our Capital to Sin and we can also let one of the Chariots in Sin do some reconnaissance nearby Yerushalem and Susa.

Turn 91 : The next world wonder is finished .. and everything in the first 100 turns
And as cool as it is to have the Pyramids at exactly in the right place and nearly the right time (just 1000 years difference ) we even really need them.

An immediate positive effect like with Stonehenge is unfortunately not there as we do not plan to change our government in near future. But more important is that the culture of Niwt-Rst is now growing with 7 point per turn. So we can be sure that we reach the elephants resource in time. The elephants not only provide happiness, but (after we have researched Construction) the elephant resource will supply us with War Elephants … War Elephants are our most important offensive weapon against the fanatic Arabians so plan ahead. Of all the dangers that we will face during the centuries the Arabians will prove to be the biggest one … sounds a little actual, doesn’t it …

At this point the guide will finish, because now you have everything in your hands.
But I wrote general strategic hints and suggestion in the next chapter.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/51388/egypt91-small.jpg

Rod
Sep 11, 2006, 06:02 AM
Egypt 3 - the next X turns

Actually you can start to conquer the first cities. At first you go for Sur, because your units need experience to overcome the 3 archers in Yerushalem. At the same time, you may assault Iquy.

By turn 102 you are able to have Sur, Yerushalem and Iquy in your hands.
Sur is not meant to grow anymore, but from the start it will only produce settlers, but this it will do perfectly.

After we will have researched Sailing, we will need Hunting, we will need Writing etc.

Sailing enables us to create our navy. We need at least 4 galleys in place, which are protecting our fishing boats next to our capital and later next to Yerushalem. Yerushalem is of course very important for us. As soon as it got conquered Judaism will spread in our lands. Our first Great Person is very likely a Prophet thanks to Stonehenge :) So we also get the Temple of Solomon early. Altogether Yerushalem is meant to be one of my three cities for cultural victory, especially now with the new rule for the resurrection of dead civilizations.

Hunting is necessary to create Spearmen. Spearmen will be the backbone of our army, as they are the only ones, who will (behind the thick city walls) protect us against Camel Archers.
The interesting thing is that we basically just need to fortify Yerushalem and Iquy, because neither Sur, nor Sin or any other city get touched except one or two times.

It also should be possible to agree on Open Borders either with Persia as with India early and we can send one Chariot till China, because the Chinese are really very good trading partners. Just trade everything with them.

In general warfare we need a little luck, because the Greeks and the Romans are now most likely to be busy with themselves, but after some while they both will come for us. So you should hope that Persia is in War with Greece at this time, because it will really boost our relations with Persia and the Greeks are exhausting themselves in fighting the land army of Persia, so that we just have to protect the sea.
(Hattusa needs to be Persian, you remember)

Iquy is strategically quite important for us, because it will be our outpost against the masses of Bedouin Camel Archers who will come later. Normally they would go for our capital, but in this case we can direct them to Iquy. What we need in Iquy is a permament presence of 4 Spearmen and a Wall, as soon as the raids are starting. Do not waste time! Also the Romans will attack exactly at this points … so either maintain the best relationship possible or equip Iquy with at least 2 Axemen.

The benefit of fortifying Iquy is that only very few units will come for our capital, so that most of the time nobody is disturbing (razing) this very important area.
Keep Iquy!

It is quite possible to get the Great Lighthouse until turn 110 – 115. Try it, actually I really like the effect and .. the Lighthouse would stand at the same place where Alexandria is supposed to be.
The Great Library on the other hands is quite impossible , simply because we do not get Literature early enough.

Do not forget to send your units into Mercenary Service as soon as you do not need them. This can often really increase your finances.

Last but not least we have to settle. The Maghreb is not the best place for settling (because it is simply to dangerous). But .. the Eastern African Coast is our natural habit. Settle the whole eastern coast until South Africa, because only there you will find Iron.. and on the way downwards you will stumble over 2 Gems, 1 Silver, 1 Gold, 2 Sugar, 1 Copper Resource next to more Horses, Cows, Incense, Elephants, Crabs, Fishes and more. (not to mention … attention : spoiler … coal :) ) The area is worth every effort.

… I normally develop this starting position into a Cultural Victory or Diplomatic Victory, but maybe you can do even more :)


I wish you much luck and much success ..


Best regards
Rudi

monolith94
Sep 14, 2006, 10:13 PM
Would it be possible to post an image showing where you settled your cities? I sort of have an idea, but it'd be nice to understand how it all fits together visually.

Prestidigitator
Sep 15, 2006, 03:35 PM
Would it be possible to post an image showing where you settled your cities? I sort of have an idea, but it'd be nice to understand how it all fits together visually.
Can you clarify? ;)

monolith94
Sep 15, 2006, 09:42 PM
What I mean is a screenshot showing egypt at some point during your game...

Rod
Sep 16, 2006, 04:12 AM
So the guide is completed so far. If somebody has remarks, comments or needs more clarification then please do not hesitate to ask me anything. I may also give detailed plans, how to to settle Africa etc.

Edit : 31.10.2006

Actually I just downloaded 1.42 and so I had to decide to completely rework my Egypt Guide. The actual guide is definitivly a guide for long term epic play, as it makes maximum use of the Egypt in a long-term way, that means you can get really big and rich cities in Egypt to keep up with the other civs in End Game, but it is not maximizing the first 140 turns.. in version 1.42 everything gets different, as we go now for the Historical Victory.
So expect a completely new guide within 2 weeks and this time no Stonehenge, but Pyramids in the desert nearby Giza, Lighthouse in Alexandria and Great Library hopefully in Alexandria ... that will sooo cool !!!

Tboy
Sep 23, 2006, 11:42 AM
Time to get started on my favorite Rhye civilization: Britain.

Name: Britain

Special power: Royal navy; every naval unit starts with Drill I and Drill II.

Historical victory objectives:

1. Be first to circumnavigate the globe.

2. Colonize American east coast, South Africa,and Australia by 1700 AD (by the way, you only need to colonize a bit of each area, not all).

3.Be first to enter the industrial and modern eras.

Guide:
So, you wish to play Britannia, and create an empire upon which the sun never sets? Then follow these pearls of wisdom in your quest.
Now, when you start off, you have a large pile of settlers, longbowmen and workers, as well as some galleys. You also have a catapult in antartica, for some bizarre reason, disband that. Build London in the start tile, then build according to the following plan (keep in mind that inverness is a barb city that will flip within a few turns):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/49904/Britainrhye.JPG

Leave Ireland until last.

I would advise that after you get a few basic buildings up and running, you turn Inverness into a military base, as it has some good production and food tiles. Manchester should be used for building ships alot.
After improving most of Britain, it's quite good to colonize Scandinavia, as there are good resources there. The Germans might declare war on you for grabbing 'their area', but since you're on an island, they usually can't do any damage.

The best way to play England is the way it was in real life: get a good navy, and colonize the good bits! Why settle for grassland when you could have pigs and sheep as well? You can and should colonize America, and stick some defensive units there to resist the coming of the Americans (it is possible, as long you defend and don't attack). You should also make a run for optics and quickly build 3-4 caravels to cicrumnavigate the globe and to explore the world. This way, if you get into the unfortunate (and extremely unlikely) situation of having little tech or maps, you can trade around for them.

Another great aspect of Britain is its ability for science. It is quite easy to get several great scientists, and you should use them to build academies in London, Inverness and Manchester.

As for foreign policy, it usually good to get friendly with the French, as this will not only ensure the safety of the British Isles, but also gain you a frienship with what will probably be your biggest tech rival in the game.

So basically, if you ever need help, then think what the real British empire would've done, and you'll probably win. (Just don't copy the charge of the light brigade... :p )

McA123
Sep 24, 2006, 10:25 AM
When I build my cities in England, I prefer to build England and Plymouth on England itself, skip Manchester and only build Dublin on Ireland, which can make use of all 3 fish resources. I usually send the leftover settler over to Scandinavia or occasionally to South Africa to get a head start on colonization. The problem with South Africa is that it's a huge drag on your economy at that point. Also, I find caste system to be absolutely crucial.

Stile
Sep 25, 2006, 09:34 AM
Rod: Thanks for the Egypt guide. Here are some questions for you:

Is Sin really necessary? (I like settling 1 north on desert, then Xou, then 2 south of the stone.)

How do you expand down the coast of Africa on Emperor without destroying your economy?

How do you keep Jerusalem from the Arabs? If they try to revolt to the Arabs, do you declare war? (I have had problems generating a prophet in the past, so losing Jerusalem actually improved my research.)

Rod
Sep 27, 2006, 12:26 AM
Hello Stile,

SIN
The question, whether founding Sin is a truly efficient strategy is not easy to answer, but there are a few strong points which are really favoring this decision :

1) Sin is the second best settling point in a diameter of up to 10 squares around our capital as long as we are regarding unsettled territory only.

2) Sin is the Suez-Channel, which will really help us in settling Africa. As all our ships normally protect our Fish Resources in the Mediterranian Sea, only from time to time we need to send one ship down south. In my scenario the majority of settlers comes from Sur - so whenever Sur is nearly finishing a settler I place a ship in Sin, then I load my settler and then we go south. In the beginning the infrastructure in Africa is weak. We simply need our few workers to improve our homelands. So there will not be any roads in Africa and then you can imagine that a ship is saving us lots of time.

3) Sin is the Suez channel which is linking your empire together. The majority of all our cities is located at the coast, so especially at the beginning the connection of our capital and the African towns is happening thanks to Sin.

4) Last but not least when it comes to war especially in the mid game the suez channel is giving you a lots of flexibility in moving your troops.
Your most likely opponents are India, Spain, Arabia and China (next to Greece and Rome). As you see these wars need troop concentrations on very opponent spots of the world, but these spots are connected by .. Sin

5) Sin is a unit production hub in my scenario. I would not know how I would produce my army of Spearmen etc. without Sin. In the midgame (thanks to the Harbour, the Great Lighthouse and its good productivitity) Sin also is likely to become the third best Research Center. After our capital (Xou) and Niwt-Rst.
This is because of the fact that the area around Yerushalem get raized veeery often. At first from the Barbs, then from Arabia etc. But the area west of Sin is save, so that Sin can grow better the most of the time. Only late Yerushalem can catch up and emerge as one of our commercial hubs.

6) Sin is THE border fortress which protects our homelands from any raiders from the east. I assure you, you do not want any roaming Camel Archers marching over your just fully grown villages and town in the Nile Area. It simply took too much time for them to grow.

AFRICA
The African Expansion is of course a matter of timing. But I assure you, you will not be able rush out Settlers very fast, too much other things need our attention.

In general Egypt's economy is based on deficit spending. So we need constant infusion of money by ...

- native villages
- mercenaries
- tech trading
- Great Merchants
- fake building wonders
- Resource trading

The point is that these things are not that difficult and except for a few dark ages, we can keep up our research and economy on a sufficient level.

It turned out that the best strategy for Egypt is the follower strategy. That means, you should not aim for technical leadership but be a mid level player and trade , trade, trade. So do not cripple your economy to gain the newest technology as soon as possible , but keep up with your opponents and research only what they do not have. Leave the newest techs to Persia.

Russia, Mali, India, Persia (for money), Germany and later America are our most important tech trading partners. Keep best relations with them and make sure that they do not get wiped out.
(if necessary 'buy' peace for them from their opponents)

YERUSHALEM
Yerushalem is tricky, of course I say NO, when these Arabs ask me to leave it. I mean I was paying for it with the blood of MY soldiers - i never would give it up.
Then the Arabs attack. Unfortunately the Rhye engine is presenting them units from the disputed areas every turn until around 900 AD, this makes things difficult.

The solution is .. 2 galleys. :)
The disputed area is not including Sin and not including the sea.
So I always keep only 2 units in Yerushalem (except for emergency), because then most likely no unit is changing sides.
The healing of units is happening only in Sin, so we always keep units loaded on galleys outside of Yerushalem to permanently restock our units in Yerushalem with freshly healed units and evacuate the injured units.

Stile
Sep 27, 2006, 07:31 AM
Thanks Rod. You make a convincing argument for Sin. I was mainly curious as to how strategically important the location was (later in the game on Emperor), since I typically locate my cities differently and use all the tiles.

I'm slowly incorporating your guide. Last night I tried Egypt again (v1.24), and used much of your tech path which served me well. A prophet spawned with about a 65% chance, and my money woes were over. Judaism was in over 15 cities and still spreading. In an attempt to please Greece I joined them against India. Persia seemed very happy with me. But then 2-3 turns before Arabia spawned Persia declared war on me from +8 relations. Fortunately I had about a dozen units between Sur and Jerusalem. But Cathage (Roman) had fallen to barbarians and 6 Camel Archers (3 slightly wounded) arrived at Xou simultaneously, plus 4 horse archers and 2 skirmishers in the south. I consolidated my forces in Jerusalem, ceding Sur to Persia militarily, when Arabia spawned. The first turn I lost several units including a C4 Axeman (yeah, I know, I promoted a variety of units, but all my specialty ones got killed) and my sole elephant in the area to Arabia's revolution. I lost my dye and ivory and with a loss of units fighting barbarians I had severe happiness problems. While I'm sure I can survive, let's just say the salad days are over and Jerusalem is sure to fall. Next up for me: Sin, galleys, and more effort to cultivate trading partners.

Barak
Sep 28, 2006, 11:08 AM
Interesting thoughts on Sin. I tried it to see what would happen. I settled sin, built a library to try to expand my borders, yet when Arabia spawned they flipped.

Rod
Sep 29, 2006, 02:33 AM
hello,

a flipping of Sin to Arabia had never happenend to me.

Did you found Sin on exactly that Desert Hill ?
Did you have Yershalem in your hands ?
Did they make this change in version 1.30 ? When I was playtesting it, i used RFC 1.24.

Tboy
Sep 30, 2006, 01:11 AM
Great guide Rod! That makes one of the starting civs a whole lot easier to play.

Just wondering if anyone has any good guides for China or India? Especially China, as I always find myself going bankrupt, technologically backward and getting swarmed by barbs.

McA123
Sep 30, 2006, 04:27 PM
Someone posted a brief overview of a game as China a while back, but that's all I remember aside from that it wasn't in this thread.

NitroJay
Oct 02, 2006, 01:45 PM
Rob, I play Egypt alot myself, and with the newer versions, Sin seems to flip to Arabia... I'm not sure why on some games it does and some it doesn't though, more often than not, Arabia gets my Sin... Never for long though...

bigk89m
Oct 04, 2006, 06:31 PM
i must say, i started a game as germany and they are freakin weak...I started with 3 longbowmans and a few axemen, and I have France and Rome already disliking me. Rome declared war on me on like the 3rd turn, and sent in a huge army of pretorians and horse archers, i was wiped out quick.

Rod
Oct 04, 2006, 11:34 PM
Never give up, never surrender (quote from 'Galaxy Quest')

that means, do not be upset because you got wiped out in the first time.

I was replaying the first 50 turns with Egypt alltogether 8 times, before I had the satisfying results that you can see now in the guide.

If you want an easier game to get used to Rhye then I sincerely suggest you to start with Persia or Mongols. Their unique power is so strong and so much fun, that you get addicted to RFC in one hour :)

Tboy
Oct 05, 2006, 12:18 AM
Germany isn't weak! I just played a game with them and quickly overan eastern France, Eastern Europe, Italy and Carthage. I might've won if I hadn't suddenly been attacked by the Russians and Arabians...

NitroJay
Oct 05, 2006, 08:47 AM
I agree, I've played as Germany a couple times and (BOTH times) when I spawned, Rome had already colapsed... It was a race between France and I to snatch up the reminance of Roman cities (which were PACKED with barbarian praetorians)... Anyway, (@BigK89m), I guess you just got unlucky...

Tboy
Oct 29, 2006, 12:42 PM
This thread needs some more strat guides...

Ideas for countries that really need strat guides:
Arabia
Greece
Persia
Germany
America

These strike me as being particularly difficult to play (especially with Arabia's insanely difficult UHV).

McA123
Oct 29, 2006, 12:50 PM
I could write a bit about Arabia, though I've never attempted the UHV. I guess I will, right now.

kairob
Oct 29, 2006, 12:50 PM
persia is easy!

Its like two countries in one, persia and india, you get 3 holy city's a semi-continant nearly ever resaurce you need, I dont see the problem arabia and greace are hard though, I only played with america once and I had state property for it :)

germany doesnt seem to hard, if you are happy with the russians or wipe them out early on...

McA123
Oct 29, 2006, 01:10 PM
This isn't so mucha strategy guide as a few goals to aim for and a few tips on how to play with Arabia.

First off, playing as Arabia means being hated. All of the European civs will hate you, and the Eastern ones won't be all that firendly either. Your only potential friend is Mali, and that's only if they end up adopting Islam.

So first off, on your first turn don't switch civics, else you won't be able to switch to islam the next turn and thus, your UP won't be applied to the cities that flip to you. While we're on the topic, the Arabian UP is very useful for the warmonger, since it takes care of any cultural problems your captured cities might have.

Your only real good city on the Arabian Peninsula is Makkah. The rest of them are low on food and lower on production, so you'll want to be using those camel archers you started with straight away to get ahold of some better cities. If Persia collapsed, then you probably won't be getting much in the way of cities flipping to you, which is a double edged sword. IF the cities of Mesopotamia have been razed, then you can move in and build some better cities in their place. If this is the case, build Baghdad (on the plains tile on the side of the river, right next to all those flood plains). I find it makes the most use of the nearby resources, and if Parsa's been rased, then build Kirman (one tile below parsa's ruins).

But before you do any of this, your first order of business should be an invasion of Egypt. There are some good cities to be had there. The odds are fairly good that the Egyptians have passed on, and in that case your job will be easier. If you're lucky, then you'll be able to take a few wonders along with the Egyptian cities, like Stonehenge and The Pyramids and maybe a few more if you're even luckier.

Once you've taken Egypt, you might wanna take a break from expansion and give your economy some time to catch its breath. Consider putting some troops up for hire as mercs if you're running especially low. Keep most of your camel archers in Egypt, since you'll almost definitely be getting hit by waves of barb camel archers, and if you're careless you'll most definitely lose a city or even all of them.

Another thing to aim for is to get THE SPIRAL MINARET. This compliments your UP very nicely. Also, if you got lucky with a few wonders in Egypt, try to aim for a great prophet to further increase your profits, or, more likely, to help pull yourself out of the hole. You may start to lose your tech lead, but don't worry. Once you've established yourself, you can catch back up fairly early.

A few more things to consider doing:

Build a city on the choke point that leads to Russia: Preferably on the desert tile to get access to the oil that will be in the water later on. Thic city will help protect you from invasion from Russia so long as you keep it well guarded.

Try to get Turkey: For the same reasons as the former, the choke point can protect you against European invasion.

Expand into North Africa: Only do this once your economy is slightly more stable. There is iron there, a resource which you most likely lack (although there is some near Kirman/Parsa).

Build the Temple of Solomon: Only if you get a second great prophet. If you do happen to, send him to Jerusalem right away and get on that, and then spread Judaism to all of your cities. The extra cash definitely won't hurt.

Invade India: Again, only if your economy is stable. India is a pushover, though, so you won't meet much resistance if you choose to do this.

Also, you won't have any lack of oil, and can put a bit of a monopoly on it if you so choose. Spain and France will have some from South America, and England has some off of the coast, but a lot of the other civs of the game won't have any and oil is a prettttty valuable resource.

That's all i can think of right now, but if anything else comes to mind I might add some more.

Riker
Oct 30, 2006, 11:28 AM
persia is easy!

Its like two countries in one, persia and india, you get 3 holy city's a semi-continant nearly ever resaurce you need, I dont see the problem arabia and greace are hard though, I only played with america once and I had state property for it

Persia is not so fun, since your millennia old indian full developed cities will inevitably claim independence and you'll find immediately without the income of two shrine, without the Gp farm, the wonders and the forbidden palace...

Phallus
Oct 30, 2006, 11:52 AM
Reading this thread really makes you appreciate how Rhye's mod has improved on the original game. I have no input to the strategies, but they make a great read.

Riker
Oct 31, 2006, 10:41 AM
there are some gems on the coast northwest of Moscow, its a good idea to build a city there just to get them.)

Nope, I can't find them...

Lobsterboy
Oct 31, 2006, 02:54 PM
Not much of a strategy guide, but I did managed to play a pretty decent game with the Greeks, albeit on the lowest difficulty setting. The biggest challenge, naturally, was holding on to my Mesopotamian conquests/settlements after Arabia spawned. Obviously the key was having enough Phalanxes ready, and enough production capacity to pump them out quickly, to beat back the initial onslaught of Camel Archers. Arabia's production capacity is poor, so if you can survive the initial onslaught, you can usually overwhelm them with numbers. After that, I had no major problems until the Persians declared their independance on me during the Modern Era. By the end of the game, I had taken over Rome, Germany, Russia, Persia, Arabia, India, and most of Egypt. I was about to take down France before the Persian revolt sidetracked me. None of these empires had collapsed of their own accord during my game.

In addition to the Pesian revolt, both Arabia and Russia revolted on me during the game. The Russian revolt was a little troublesome due to the 10%/turn attrition my forces took while in Russian territory, but fortunately I had stocked my former Russian cities with enough Cannon in anticipation of such an occurence to make subduing the rebels a little easier.

McA123
Oct 31, 2006, 06:48 PM
Nope, I can't find them...

The city built next to them is called Vorkuta, there's also copper nearby and it's on a river. I'ts kind of diagonal (up and right) from Moscow.

Riker
Nov 01, 2006, 08:18 AM
northwest of Moscow

I'ts kind of diagonal (up and right) from Moscow.

Right is east, here it's why I couldn't find them....

kairob
Nov 01, 2006, 11:15 AM
I am well confused, where is right not east?

Elhoim
Nov 01, 2006, 11:50 AM
I am well confused, where is right not east?

When you are looking south... ;)

kairob
Nov 01, 2006, 11:55 AM
but your not on the map, the map is pointing north, right? :S

Elhoim
Nov 01, 2006, 02:22 PM
Of course. I was only joking. ;)

Riker
Nov 01, 2006, 03:23 PM
northwest of Moscow

Quote:
I'ts kind of diagonal (up and right) from Moscow.

Right is east, here it's why I couldn't find them....

I am well confused, where is right not east?

Northwest and up and right are not the same....

kairob
Nov 02, 2006, 09:07 AM
it is in this context as the map north is also true north, and map north is always up on a map meaning east will always be right...

Riker
Nov 02, 2006, 12:49 PM
damn.

North west. Up and right

North west means up and left. I won't quote again...

fearuin
Nov 20, 2006, 07:54 AM
I have played a game with egyptians, and I can assure the Yerushalayim and Sin issue are very important. In my case, I didn't rushed to South Africa for iron, but to Marocco. The result was not bad, but to the end of the game, I started to fade down as long as I had a lot of improductive terrain. I've finished in sixth position in points, though I was the only Civ in Africa, except for Malinese, which I just couldn't beat. How pitiful! But they've got infantries and cavalries, but me not.

Next time I'll try your way.

EDIT: some little more explanations (the other time I was in little rush). I was the first in culture, the first in gold, and the fourth in tech... But I think my problems came because improductive land = little population = little specialists = less technology = less production = less wonders. Anyway it was a weird game because the civ most advanced was England, who were researching Fascism in the end of the game. There was only 200 points of difference between Americans (who won by time) and me.

I think that if I playback since the Middle Age (because I was on the lead until XVIII century), I will be able to make something better.

GoodGame
Nov 21, 2006, 10:34 AM
My 2cents on Egypt:

I agree that the position is relatively weak for starting due to nothing but a few quarrys and lots of sick floodplains, but with the UU, the early culture victory of 500 is attainable.

Two things to consider: A warrior rush can succeed against the fertile crescent to the east due to the fact they don't have defenses, and the barbarian archer defenders aren't built immediately (at least on Viceroy). Use the conquered cities to build more warriors, never using them in stacks of less than three, and only pause the conquest for archers.
Building settlers is expensive and Egypt has an early time-crunch----therefore be happy with the barbarian cities (to that note, I settle the first city right where it starts as there's lots of production bonus in the quarries, and fish can be gotten from the fertile crescent/Arabia anyway.

No need to research Monotheism, even if you aren't the first to Polytheism. Chances are you'll capture the founding city if you don't found the religion yourself.

Go straight for Animal Husbandry, wheel, and then crank out chariots to capture the fertile crescent before worrying about any wonders.

Then when you've built the Pyramids, the free obelisks with about 7 cities captured (I forget the #) is a shoe-in for 500 culture.

Recommended: capture to Hatsusas (its a nice region) and Shusan. Surrender Shusan to Persia---better to be their buddy..
Make nice with Greece and Persia (shun India and anyone else they want---it's better that way), through religion and trade. Through that, you can safely build the wonders and prepare for a coming war with the Arabs (they want the whole fertile crescent for themselves---and they ain't gonna get it!); Spearman in abundance of course to counter the Camel archers (albeit imperfectly, but with level-ups they are effective).

In my trial game, Ur got sacked, and on balance that only made Babel an even better sit to develop. Urshalim was
a nice spot for the Lighthouse (palestine) but it's vulnerable to the Arabs camel rushes.

Overall strategy:
downplay the Nile production weakness by simply not producing settlers when barbarian cities can be captured (warrior rushes work, then build chariots to finish up once archers arrive). Build culture through the conquered cities, using the Pyramids this way, for extra economic culture Be influential friends with the neighbors to avoid costly wars (except the Arabs) ; Use this time to finish the wonders and win the Arch. Don't be extra generous in giving free techs to the upstarts until you seriously outpace them. The rest is easy---try to get the world to stay the same religion as you, and keep friendly with your immediate neighbors at the expense of farther countries---keep a tech lead and settle in the obvious unchallenged direction---South-East Africa (Though expanding towards Russia/Siberia is wide open after the barbarians rushes are done).

Final note (something that didn't dawn on me until late in my trial game, but should have): the flood-plains are now great places to put Towns! (you can't irrigate them and production ecomics there is limited, but they guarantee that you'll work them due to food value and it works out that if you won't produce there then might as well settle towns there)

kairob
Nov 21, 2006, 12:28 PM
Some civs are made for war some arn't, if I was playing as the turks or the mongols then they sound like solid tactics, however as egypt I think the builder option is more viable, it is possible to win the HV with just two cities and without attacking anybody.

McA123
Nov 21, 2006, 02:28 PM
Ahh, but what if someone attacks you?

kairob
Nov 21, 2006, 03:15 PM
you win before most civs spawn, and before greace or persia manage to get past jerusalem, all you have to do it but-lick Rome and Cathage...

fearuin
Nov 22, 2006, 12:38 PM
In the game I played with with Egypt (btw: I have no saves, so it seems I will have to start from the beginning, what it's not bad, with all that feedback in mind) I was in war almost all the time, and only once I was the one which declared it.

At first, battling with barbs. Later on, I saw Yerushalayim very slightly defended (just two archers) so I took the initiative and made a blitzkrieg for it. Succesful, btw. But I didn't had a Great prophet all the game, so I wasn't able to build the Temple of solomon, or the Holy Building from hinduism (I founded it :) ). After that, the persians seemed to be so busy warrying with Indians that there was no counterattack, and peace was signed just about 10 turns later.

Just after that, barbs came along from Maghreb in hordes (about 20 camel archers). They caught me so defenseless that were able to raze two cities, one of them with the Great Lighthouse (a complete disaster, I don't know how I didn't quit in that moment).

So I repelled the invasion, and rebuilt the cities. And the arabs appeared. They wanted Yerushalayim. Obviously, my answer was 'NO'. War with arabs was not tought, but it took me a while to retake Yerushalayim, and a city they surprisingly take in south east Africa. I was really surprised. It was the first time that I've seen the AI to keep something more than a straightforward attack, specially the Arabs. But, finally, the colony and Yerushalayim were liberated. After that, I wanted revenge, so I went after Makkah, succesfully. Finally, the persians entered the war, and smashed the other arab cities, which were quite undeveloped.

But this was not the end. When I was about to settle in the area or Northwest africa that there's an iron resource, I saw a spanish city! I prepared the invasion, but they declared war on me first, and also Germany, and England. It was really hard to defend against the "crusade", but France helped a lot, declaring war on the Spanish (I think that because of some colony affairs in South America). Finally I razed the spanish colony, settle there, and got my Iron!! It was about the start of the XIX century.

Problems came again, when my iron colony revolted, and changed to Spanish. I was thinking in attack again, but English, which at all this time I was still in war, bribed the Malinese to attack me... I barely could contain them. I headed towards Timbuktu directly, and when my attacking army was completely destroyed, I sueded them for peace, which they accepted. Also the English. It was 2030. No time to win...

Conclusion: many times, in RFC, keep a defined strategy can be very very hard. I wanted a peaceful game, and my target was for a culture victory. My first capital (I moved towards south some time later in the game) reached legendary culture, it's true. But it was the only city which wasn't occuppied with military affairs.

Agramon
Nov 27, 2006, 05:41 AM
So far only on Viceroy.

Capital becomes Commerce City. Great Merchant factory so to say.

Athenai: Workboat-Workboat-Settler-Colossos

Research Masonry-writing-Alphabet...

Chariot straight to Niniveh(for Stone+Copper...). Build/Rush obelisk. Makes a good Science city but cottages hard to defend against later raids.

Niniveh: Obelisk-Warrior-Great Lib

Worker builds road via byzantion to hattusas. To connect stone.

1 Warrior patrols the forests in Thracia for Barbarians

1 Warrior for hut popping (Eurasia is quite big)

Phalanges to Hattusas(Production worker). Promote City raider. Raid the fertile crescent. Babel first for 2 Workers or Sur for XP.

Hattusas: Stonehenge(Pop'n Chop),


1st Settler founds Byzantion

Byzantion: Workboat-Warrior-Warrior

2nd Settler goes to North West (Fresh Water, Sea, Copper, Hill) to found Artist factory.

Don't remember the name:confused: : Parthenon(chop/rush)

The Tower (+100% GPP) gets build there too

Build Phalanges+Elephants(if you get them) to the East and Axes to the west.

Research Caravels (don't need open borders) and sail the seas. Try to keep open Borders with Egypt or Arabia, other wise you should better capture the Suez. Since you should have enough troups amassed by that time.

Don't move away too much from research path, I easily got beaten to that. May not work on Monarch. Stonehenge and GLib are very likely not yours.

You can also try the (pyramids+)forge for Great engineer production, Stonehenge might help here too.

P.S.: Stonehenge and Pyramids changed their specials:crazyeye: . Didn't recognize that with Egypt earlier, since I built both :lol: .

thenooblet22
Dec 01, 2006, 08:25 PM
Here's a guide I posted in another thread:
It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy to defeat Rome with Carthage. I choose Carthage for this reason 'cause once you have the Italian penensula, you automatically become a world superpower.

Here's some tipes (not specifically to you Hitti, just here for everyone)

First thing to do is to Unload your spawned Settler and send it west of your capital to later found a city. You can even set it to start build a wonder for future use or for future income if someone else finishes it before.

Next is to position your troops for the future invasion. Unload your two archers on the southern tip of the peninsula near the Roman spawn (yes both of them because your African cities won't have any threat until the Camel Archers spawn). Now before you end your turn, you can set your capital to work on anything you want (possibly another wonder) and change your civics (preferably just 2 for just 1 turn of anarchy).

Now you will recieve the message that the Romans have spawned and even though you might want to attack right then, you have to wait. Putting your Unique Power to use, you will have to buy your first mercenary. By then their should be a couple of good choices such as an axeman, a skirmisher or a war chariot. If you don't want to put too much strain on your economy, adjust your science output to 0%. Load your Numidian Calvary and your mercenary into your galleys and then you play the waiting game. What your waiting for is for Rome to start sending their Praetorians northward to their new city. If you time it right you can grab their worker as well. When there is only archers guarding Rome, send your fleet northward and land on the tile to the north of Rome (so you won't have to cross its river). Your archers are also stationed to the south. Your mercenary should be able to take out one of their archers while it may take both Numidian Calvary to finish the last one.

With Rome in your hands, your job isn't over. Heal your mercenary in the newly capture city. While you hold down the resistance, you should also purchase another mercenary. Again, there should be another good mercenary unit for hire. When purchased, it should arrive in Rome (I don't know if this is random or not). Send off your new army while holding down Rome with your archers. If you're short of men you can send an archer as well. The last city probably will have 1 or 2 archers with at most 1 Praetorian (I don't know where the Romans send the rest of their Praetorians; probably exploring or died battling the Gauls) It might take you two turns at the most, but the city should fall.

After the Romans are destroyed, disband your mercenaries; they will be straining on your economy about now. Finally, establish a city on the southern end of the peninsula before it gets consumed by the Greek culture. At this point, you can take your empire in any direction you want. You can become a peaceful wonder-grabber or a warmonger (conquering Greece, Babylonians and Egyptians should be quite easy with more Numidian Calvary and mercenaries). In the end, its a fun game after you've dealt with those pesky Romans.

Anyway, just wanted to give my tips. I should be able to get an Ottoman stradegy guide once I've had more games with them.

Abegweit
Dec 05, 2006, 10:01 AM
When I build my cities in England, I prefer to build England and Plymouth on England itself, skip Manchester and only build Dublin on Ireland, which can make use of all 3 fish resources. I usually send the leftover settler over to Scandinavia or occasionally to South Africa to get a head start on colonization. The problem with South Africa is that it's a huge drag on your economy at that point.England is one of the easier civs to play. Inverness and Manchester are production powerhouses (so don't skip that site) and all cities generate plenty of commerce. You'll want to build libraries everywhere and hire plenty of scientists. Soon you will be far ahead in tech.

I use my settlers to found Manchester, Plymouth and... Aarhus (west side of Jutland south of the pigs). With your production and research capacity you should be able to take a big chunk of Europe with Maces and Cats. Colonization overseas can come after you've already carved out a massive homeland. Aarhus is a pretty good site in its own, too. Copenhagen looks better because of the cows but the Germans will grab them (make them pay!) and Aarhus is superior in other respects.

Dublin and Oslo come next about the same time. The former is simply a good site. The latter gets the silver - two luxes with forges, which are easy to get. Just kill three or four people. Which speaking of...

Also, I find caste system to be absolutely crucial.Why? :confused: Slavery is far better in any game. And with the huge food surpluses you have everywhere, it is especially true when playing the English in RFC. Whip out libraries, forges. military and everything else. In general, you should follow the same sequence in every city except maybe Plymouth.

1. whip something expensive
2. grow back to the happy limit while building units.
3. hire scientists and engineers. Maybe build a settler or worker.
4. when unhappiness has worn off go back step 1.

Revolt immediately to HR and slavery so that you don't waste time in anarchy after the new cities are built (this is a general principle of RFC - your first action should be to set your civics). Later, after Christianity spreads to your lands, add Vassalage and Theocracy and get ready to kick some German butt. :D

Edit on the :whipped:
Whip out work boats in Manchester and Plymouth the second you can. London and Aarhus get libraries, although it will take them some time to get up to size. Get a granary in Inverness. Then start right in on cats in preparation for the war (it has a barracks). When you get back up to size, get a library.

The general whip order for new cities should be granary-library-barracks (if appropriate) -forge-market. The library may be built first if border expansion is important, as in Aarhus.

Lord Oden
Dec 05, 2006, 02:39 PM
China can be an easy civ to play as long as you know your history (or foresight of planned events).

The main points:

1. Expand carefully - Expanding south of the capital too fast to fill in the mainland can make your research drop to 0% fast. Go after calendar fast to develop your lux resources.

2. BARBS! - Expect swordsmen from Tibet and horse archers from the north. Position your units accordingly. Have backup units ready to go. Once Tibet is conquered the raids will stop. The jungles in the south will block most unit movement, including Indian and Barbs.

3. Chokepoints - Use them. The barbs of Tibet can be stopped (temporally) by using a few axmen with woodsmen promotion in the wooded valley east of Tibet. Keep a medic in the group also. This should buy you some time to build a force strong enough to take Tibet, if you choose.

4. Japan - Keep an eye on him. He will declare war. Be ready for a landing of 4 units in Korea.

5. Resources - The copper in the south can be hard to hook up with in time. It may be faster to get the research for the iron near Beijing. Get Axmen and Spearman fast. Archers and warriors will not cut it for what will soon come.

6. THE KESHIK - The Mongols should be feared. Their mounted units can run through your foot units with impunity. Your best bet is to sweet talk India for one of their elephants. The War Elephant is the best answer to the Mongolian threat, but the Mongols will still be faster than you so you will need to be ready. The Mongols will declare war. Plan to deny them their horse resource.

If you live past the Mongolian war you should be strong enough to finish out the rest of the game.

McA123
Dec 05, 2006, 03:05 PM
Why? :confused: Slavery is far better in any game. And with the huge food surpluses you have everywhere, it is especially true when playing the English in RFC. Whip out libraries, forges. military and everything else. In general, you should follow the same sequence in every city except maybe Plymouth.

With Caste System, you can get scientists in cities that grow fast, but don't have such great production (Dublin is the prime example of this). Dublin always winds up having around 8 scientists early game for me, and usally before it could ever have managed to push out a library, and the problem with using slavery to get the library is that i doesn't provide the ability to hire as many scientists, and also decreases the population and makes the city unhappy for a while, and with how fast dublin grows, that can be a pretty big problem.

Abegweit
Dec 05, 2006, 03:54 PM
With Caste System, you can get scientists in cities that grow fast, but don't have such great production (Dublin is the prime example of this). Dublin always winds up having around 8 scientists early game for me, and usally before it could ever have managed to push out a library, and the problem with using slavery to get the library is that i doesn't provide the ability to hire as many scientists, and also decreases the population and makes the city unhappy for a while, and with how fast dublin grows, that can be a pretty big problem.Part of your problem is that you skip the Manchester site. Not only does that lose production in England, it means that Dublin gets four big food tiles instead of three. I'm playing a game right now.

Dublin was found in 1100AD. As I speak in 1340AD, it has a granary, library, forge, lighthouse and temple. It is starting work on its university. Right now, it is only running one specialists but that will change soon.

Then there's the opportunity cost for what happens in other cities. Aarhus has a barracks, granary, lighthouse, forge, library, university, market and temple. Can you imagine how long it would take to build this stuff in such a poor production site without the whip? The hardest part was getting the initial library to bring in the fish. The work boat came from London. The rest just came by itself.

Inverness has a barracks, granary, library, forge, lighthouse, university, market and The Spiral Minaret (popped a GE :D ). I just whipped its amphitheatre. Even so, it is running three specialists and actually spends most of its time training soldiers to beat up the continentals.

Speaking of which... Germany is dead and France is reduced to one city. Spain and Rome are next in line. The continent should be mine by 1450AD. With a core like that and some whipped courthouses, the national objective is easy to reach.

Gatsby
Dec 05, 2006, 07:03 PM
I too would really like to know how to achieve the UHV's for the following civ's:

Persia
Arabia
America
Mali
Rome

I've played Persia, and that goal of 20% of world territory by 650AD or whatever is impossible. The upkeep costs alone will cripple your economy before you even get to 10%, and the Satrapy power is virtually useless.

I tried America, and foolishly wasted my resources on a war with the Aztecs when I should have targeted European Nations. But when it says "no European Cities in American continent in 1900 AD" does that mean North AND South America and the Carribean Islands? Because that sounds like a tall order to me.

Having just read a previous post about a Greece-to-Russia strategy, I came up with an idea about playing Arabia just now: start as Persia, focus primarily on building a massive state of the art army, conquer India, attack and weaken Greece (MAYBE), conquer Mesopotamia and Jerusalem, and just before the Arabs arrive, put ALL your units in Jerusalem and the Mesopotamian cities and take control of the Arabs. Then as the Arabs you can conquer Persia and Egypt easily, and move on to Europe. Would that work?

I haven't tried Mali yet, but the idea of having to amass 20000 gold in that short period of time seems too difficult for me to even consider trying. I suppose you would need to :

set research at 0%
choose gold optimising civics
set cities on gold maximisation mode?
build/spam cottages, markets, grocers, and banks if availiable
only use merchant specialists
go for great merchants and use them to create trade routes?
hire out heaps of mercenaries?

I played as Rome and thought I had fufilled the first two historical victory conditions but apparently I hadn't. I had all my >= size 5 cities connected to Rome with Barracks, Amphitheatre and Aqueduct in each, the Colissuem wonder in Rome for good measure, and I had cities in Carthaginian, French, English, Spanish, Greek, Jewish, Turkish, and Egyptian lands. So why didn't I satisfy the first two UHV conditions?

Head Serf
Dec 05, 2006, 07:36 PM
I don't think that a strategy that relies on using another civilization first is as much a strategy as an exploit.

Gatsby
Dec 05, 2006, 07:50 PM
I don't think that a strategy that relies on using another civilization first is as much a strategy as an exploit.

So???

At least it's thinking outside the box.

Gatsby
Dec 06, 2006, 04:59 PM
So I tried the Persia-Arabia strategy/exploit (you say tomato....) last night, and I haven't finished yet but so far it looks promising. I still have no idea how you are supposed to control 20% of the world's landmass as Persia by 600AD, but as Persia I built a heap of wonders, 1 holy shrine, was far ahead in tech., and conquered India and Greece with a large and diversified military force. A turn before Arabia is born, I moved most of my units into the soon-to-be Arab cities, pillage most of my own (Persia's) strategic military resources, and when the Arab cities flip they have a massive army at there disposal. When this occurs, I promptly upgrade all horse archers to Camel Archers, attack the near-empty Persian cities and I soon had the entire Persian empire from Greece to India under my (Arab) control.

Then the Romans declared war, I managed to conquer them (they collapsed after I took Rome) with my massive (mostly formerly Persian) army which I had concentrated in Greece, and now the year is about 900CE and I am just starting to invade France. I got a second shrine with a Great Prohpet from Perspepolis (the Persian wonder building spree, remember?) and should be able to get that third shrine before 1300AD with another Great Prophet. So if I keep on my toes, an Arab victory might be possible after all (although my research is really suffering at the moment due to upkeep costs).

This approach might also make an American UHV more obtainable: start as England, colonise and really build up the Eastern US, and build a massive land army as well as plently of transport and combat ships. Then you move as many of these units into the soon-to-be US cities around 1700CE as possible(especially the sea units) and when the cities flip to America, you (as the Americans) now have a massive army in order to drive the Europeans from the New World quickly and possibly attack the Aztecs. I'll have to try this one out.

Abegweit
Dec 07, 2006, 12:10 PM
The Aztecs

The unique power of the Aztecs is slavery. So never think of a training a worker. You will get plenty simply by taking out the barbs, never mind whatever civs you might have to fight. In fact, you won't know what to do with them all. For much of the game, you will find that about the best project is building long roads to future cities.

Basic strategy

The Aztecs start out with a huge continent all to themselves, just waiting to be filled out. The downside, of course, is that they are backwards and vulnerable to the superior knowledge and weaponry of the Europeans. As the Aztec civ awakes, the Europeans are able to cross the ocean to make contact but cannot yet colonise the continent. Your objective is to use that contact to not just come abreast but to leap ahead in technology while simultaneously taking all that glorious empty land.

Played properly, you should be able to deny the entire continent to the Europeans while simultaneously beating them in the Liberalism race. In fact, you should not just get to the Industrial Era in the required time-frame for the UHV but get there first.

The starting location is magnificent. Two Corn, several hills and a Dye. Production power. Commerce power. And food to back it up. If there ever was a location which cried for Bureaucracy, this is it. A couple of your towns, including the capital, will need Sailing to get Lighthouses but you won't go far wrong if you go straight for The Money instead of satisfying these needs. The bottom line is that the research path must be either Sailing-CS or CS straightaway.

There is a second reason to go for CS too. The AI likes the top and bottom research paths. If you go for the middle one, you are likely to garner monopoly techs which you can trade for several on the other paths.

Finally, if there wasn't enough reason already, CS gets you halfway to Maces - and Maces are the great equalizers which give you the capability to defend yourself from European incursions. To the point that the hardest part of your UHV may be to find Europeans to enslave. Well... you can find them in Europe :mischief:

In this regard, continue in the same direction through the tech tree with PP, Paper, Education, etc. More trade-bait. You should be need able to get everything else you need through trade. The only thing you should keep an eye out for is the key military techs: Machinery, Optics, and Astronomy. Machinery gets your maces. Optics gives you contacts. Especially make sure to get to that Great African Tech Whore. You and he will make fine music together. You need Astronomy mainly for protection from barb galleys. It’s not time to invade Europe. Yet … Machinery should be easy to trade for. Optics, and especially Astronomy, will be harder. If you can’t get to Astronomy on time, make sure to have several caravels ready on both coasts.

When you get to Liberalism, you can take any path you choose. I personally like to go for rifling to prepare for the next great challenge… the arrival of the Americans.

OK. ‘Nuff long-range stuff. Let’s get back to opening moves.

Settle to the northeast. Switch civics immediately before secondary cities are impacted. HR and slavery are tough to beat, and only cost one turn, so go for it. However, T... whatever its name, should not be whipped. The location is powerful and, under Bureaucracy, the capital should be big so let it grow. At most take the occasional settler off it. Don’t hesitate with whip elsewhere though. I like to settle the other two cities to the north just above the Spices and to the Northwest, just east of the clams. The northern city should get a whipped library. The Northwestern one gets a work boat and a library, both whipped.

Send all the Jaguars south-east. There are a couple of Mayan cities which are well worth taking. Don’t be afraid of the poor odds. The game has been rigged and you will win! This seems to be a general characteristic of late RFC starts. The first three or four attacks are 100% sure to succeed. Tikal will eventually turn into a nice city. Chichen Itza will always be poor but, with a lighthouse and library, it will certainly pay for itself. Build the workboat out of the capital. It will take too long to build at Chicken.

If you have good success, you can move on to the Incas. Their city of Quito is well worth having. Grab it and they will be trapped on the coast forever. Just raze the next city down the coast (I forget its name) so that you get the corn. Stop there. The others will alway be small and a drain on your economy. If you tackle the Inca, the only thing which can go wrong is that they get mercenaries. War elephants, in particular, are extremely dangerous because they can enter the jungle. So be careful about the Mercenary situation. You might even hire them yourself for denial purposes.

Further expansion

Don’t go much further into South America than Caracas (at least not in the second phase). It's too far away and, in any case, you should be concentrating on claiming the US. Getting iron or copper is especially important to be able to build those maces. There is copper in the desert to the north, but it’s a terrible location. Seattle also has some and it’s a nice spot. Still, you should be building towards the Europeans, not away from them. Chicago is an absolutely magnificent location and there is iron just to the east. Reach for it. So New Orleans should be your next city after the initial five or six. It has some nice food. Then comes Chicago. This location should contain your FP. It is nice and central to your American core, if slightly north, and will be a powerhouse. Charleston, New York and Sydney to the east. St. Louis, Winnipeg and Sudbury to the west and north.

Then sit back and wait for the arrival of the Europeans. Or take the game to them if you prefer. Just remember to be ready for the Americans. Cannons and rifles in New York and Chicago (which can use them for happy issues if you still have them) will make sure that they get a fine welcome.

NitroJay
Dec 07, 2006, 05:10 PM
***India!***

Yes, I know the Unique Historical Victory is very non-historical and I know the Unique Unit is next to useless, but come on, India can be fun! Even though I think the UHV of having to found 5 religions should REALLY be changed, it is possible to win a UHV with India on Monarch on a semi-consistant basis...

When you found Delhi, you should immediatly send your first warrior on a scouting mission. His goals should be: #1, get a visual on the place where the the two rivers meet SW of Delhi; and #2, make his way toward Europe.

Delhi should build another warrior. This will be the extent of your military.

Before you hit the end turn button, don't forget to set your research path. Make a beeline straight for Monotheism. If you don't go for Monotheism, Judaism will be founded in the Middle East, right away wasting a religion toward your goal...

Once your second warrior is finished, start working on Stonehenge. You NEED Stonehenge to win!

Once Delhi's population hits 2, take a break on Stonehenge to rush out a settler... Build a city right above that precious little marble site. Your new city, Thandigarh, or something like that... (It starts with a 'T,' that's all I know...) T city should produce a warrior, JUST IN CASE one of those barbarian warriors from up north come wandering down... T city should also produce a Fast Worker.

Make sure that once Delhi has finished the T-city's settler, it goes back to Stonehenge, btw...

Have your worker throw a quarry on the pile of marble...

T-city should then begin producing The Parthenon.

You now have two cities producing wonders, Stonhenge in Delhi and The Parthenon in T-city... I hope you like the End Turn button...

Oh wait, I forgot about the warrior. If he hasn't been picked off by a bear yet, he should be ready to make contact with the Greeks, and, more importantly, the Romans. This is your first warriors soul purpose in life. Don't waste him on a goody hut ambush...

Right about now, you should be founding Judaism in T-City. Your next tech, should be Priesthood. In some games, I've seen China or Greece get this first if you spend time dicking around with something as unimportant as agriculture or the wheel... If someone else founds Hinduism or Buddism, you should just give up, you suck.

Once you have priesthood, and the Buddism founding in T-city, change T-city from the Parthenon to The Oracle! (We'll come back to the Parthenon later.) Put your research now into Meditation to snatch up Hinduism. Now you need writting.

Is Delhi getting close to finishing Stonehenge yet? Whenever that happens, make sure you switch your religious civic to PASSIVISM. (Oh yeah, I said it.) Passivism sucks for everyone else, but it a requirement for India. It's great not having any anarchy, switch all you want, but keep passivism. While your at it, go into Delhi's city manager and turn on the "Great People" focus. See where I'm going with this? Delhi is yours to do what you want with it... Build monuments or reserve settlers (my personal favorite) but DO NOT build up your military. Passivism on the religious civic will kill you... Also, don't found any new cities, yet, as the strain on your economy will choke your research.

T-city's culture should be looking pretty good now with 3 founding religions in it. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, if China founds Confusism or Taoism, don't sweat it, we're not worried about those...

Sometime soon, if it hasn't already happened, Persia will spawn. You MUST kiss Persia's ass. Get open borders. They want you to declare war on the Greeks? Do it. They want money you don't have? Give it. Persia can rip through your two warrior world in a second... Babylonia is another problem. A couple of my games, they brought over stacks of their UU (the bowmen) and made me wish I was playing a Babylon game... It wouldn't hurt to kiss their ass too, but if Babylon and Persia go to war, back Persia, they are a GREAT buffer.

Do you know what else is a great buffer? JUNGLE. China wants to throw down with you, let'em. They won't be able to come at you with anything except scouts. ONCE, China led a massive one catapult assult around the mountains against my T-City. I'm not kidding you, one catapult... They were taken out by the barbs, no surprise there...

ANYWAY, MAKE SURE that you don't finish the Oracle before you finish researching writting!!! If it's close, switch back to the Parthenon for a little bit. Once you have writting, finish the Oracle. Of look, Theology!

Now you have FOUR religions, Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, and Christianity. And Christianity comes with a missionary! You have two options here: #1, send the missionary to Delhi and make your state religion Christianity or #2, send the missionary to Persia's Parsa and STILL make your religion Christianity, but now you have another thing in common with your master Persia. Here's how I decide: If Persia and I are good (i.e., I've "helped" them out by declaring war on someone they didn't like) I'll give the missionary to Delhi. Christianity can spread fine on it's own. If Persia isn't good with me though, I NEED them to be my friend, so I will send the missionary there and watch them convert. The only flaw here is if Persia ALREADY got Judaism... They won't go for Christianity... Tough call then...

Anyway, once the Oracle has been built, it's time to focus on the LAST religion left... Islam... It's IMPOSSIBLE to research Devine Right before the Arabs spawn, I don't care what you say. I've tried it every way I can think of, so unless your a Viceroy playing wimp, it can't happen. This is where the Stonehenge and the Oracle (with their Great Prophet spawning) and the Passivism (with it's Great People Boost) and the Great People focus in Delhi, AND the Parthenon you are about to build (with IT'S great people boost) REALLY come into play... NOW do you see where I am going?

RESEARCH: You now need Monarchy. Make sure you get it before your first Great Prophet is born. It may seem like a waste of Prophets when you have Four founding religions in one city, but it has to be done for the UHV. You will use TWO prophets to found Devine Right. If you don't have Monarchy when one of the prophets is born, he will want to research CODE OF LAWS. (I figure this is a hold over from when Confussism was founded with code of laws...) If you have Monarchy, he will put his research toward Devine Right. Your goal is to have TWO great prophets spawn before Arabia spawns but AFTER you secure Monarchy.

Remember your (probably) long dead first warrior? It's nice to know Greece and Rome now because they've probably made their way to Alphabet and you can trade some techs to fill out your tech tree... Finally getting to put that Fast Warrior to work. Oh yeah, wake his ass up!

Once the Parthenon is done in T-city, start building Archers (if you can), if not, ANYTHING to boost the defenses there. (Warriors probably won't cut it, which is why you needed to meet Rome and Greece with their rushes to Alphabet...) Horse Archers are on there way for T-City. 4-6 Archers should stem the tide... Walls don't hurt either. Stay on focus though, stop building military units if your Monarchy research is really starting to dwindle... (remember, you're a passivist...) Try to avoid using Slavery (if you were able to trade something for Bronze working) unless you're in a real pinch, since this will hurt your last goal, being first in pop...

Once your people have spawned and you managed to get Devine Right, you can take a breath, you've passed the hardest goal! Say hello to that Triumphal Arch!

Take your cities off the Great People focus, switch to a more military friendly religious civic, and start sending out/building settlers! Colonize every inch of land in India. Put your cities on FULL GROWTH. Is Persia still around? If not, (or if they are REALLY weak) go after them! Take all the barb cities you can! Take the Persian cities if you can... Yeah, you've kissed their ass long enough, and by now, they should be looking pretty weak to you... You don't have a lot of time, 1200AD is coming up quick. Since your probably don't have Calendar, keep an eye on what Civs are spawning, this tells you how close you are getting to the end of your game.

Your biggest rival in Population is typically Japan at this point. They have nice fat untouched cities on an island with nothing better to do but grow. This late in the game, having spent all your time with just two cities, you can't outgrow anyone. You need to think about taking cities by force. I can usually do it with a galley and some swordmen in South East Asia, but I most recently did it by capturing Persia's remaining three cities. If China collapsed, go after their cities! Don't take the lone catapult route around the mountains though, you're smarter than that, you build a galley. This is where you start being happy about having a FAST worker as your UU...

IT'll be close, it's always close... But you can do it. 1200AD rolls around and you get that victory message, it'll be worth it. Add a India Historical Victory on Monarch to your hall of fame. :)

Agramon
Dec 08, 2006, 07:15 AM
Seems you worked out Indian UHV quite well, but I'd still argue to build Multan instead of the "T-City". Just south of the peaks and north of the swamps. It seals the subcontinent to the East against any invasion (most probably barbarian). There is one passage left in the mountains. But you can defend it easilywith a fortified unit in the wood next to it or on the hill outside, if you require cutting it.

NitroJay
Dec 08, 2006, 01:26 PM
Multan works just as well, but I've found that it "provokes" Persia a little too much... If you follow my strategy, most (if not all 5) of the religions are founded in your second city (which seems silly because Delhi is left with nothing...)... The culture from the second city will push against Persia either way you do it, but with my T-city, you still allow Persia a little room and the barbarians will go after it constantly, with no holes in your defense once the culture from the religions spread. Having that T-city tucked into the mountains there, with walls and archers, will keep the barbarians at bay indefinatly... :)

sdLeo
Dec 13, 2006, 08:47 PM
Little question on the Arabian onslaught on the Holy Land cities (the ones you all refuse to give up hehe....

When the Arabs declare on you and you start losing units...

1) What are the best units to fend the camels off?
2) Is there a radius for the deserter effect? Would placing units onto galleys off the coast of Jerusalem prevent those units from deserting?

Phallus
Dec 14, 2006, 03:27 AM
1. Tanks.
2. From my experience it does, but just to be more careful you may want to spend one turn moving the galley away from Jerusalem.

Abegweit
Dec 14, 2006, 07:05 AM
Phalanxes eat 'em for lunch. A couple of decent properly-promoted spears should do quite well too.

NitroJay
Dec 15, 2006, 10:27 AM
1.) Spears do pretty well, Pikemen better. Promote the spears up a few stars and you'll be fine.

2.) I think the new civ spawn diserter effect goes on for like 10 turns...

REDY
Dec 17, 2006, 01:07 AM
May somebody make guide for English? I never was so good to make historical objectives, especcialy second one.

Hitti-Litti
Dec 17, 2006, 04:09 AM
There is a guide for English already, though it's a pretty old one.

Main points in achieving the goals:

1) Build London, Plymouth, Manchester and city in Ireland or South Africa. With luck you get religion in the first few turns, and with more luck it is the same that Spanish have.
2) 2 cities in South Africa, 3 cities in USA, and 2 or 3 cities in Australia. If you transport one of your first settlers to South Africa, the goal is a lot easier. In England build two settlers to be transported to USA and one/two to be transported in Australia. 2 in USA will both build a city, and one of those will build later a settler and found a new city. In Australia the same trick. In South Africa one city, which will later build a settler.
3)Make friends with others. Mali is a good friend, rich and advanced. And have a big navy to repel enemy invasions if you have big enemies.
4)Trade techs for money. That way you gain money to keep your research up in order to research Industrial Age techs.
5)Circumnavigation is easy, just build two caravels and let one to go westwards, one eastwards.

REDY
Dec 17, 2006, 08:25 AM
Hitti-Litti: Thanks, but..I logically put first settlers to Australia and Asia..is Asia as part Euroasia or you forget on it? Maybe is problem there.
However, I also want build cities which will never fall to American hands.
Have your cities garisson? How many?

I often have no war with European countries, they are peacful to me..

And these cities which you mentioned are for all time in British isles (Manchester, London, Plymouth, Dublin), or in future you should build for example Edinburgh?

Thanks for help.

Hitti-Litti
Dec 17, 2006, 08:47 AM
My cities in US have garrison, about 2-4 units. They beat barbs easily.

Asia a part of Eurasia? What are you talking about? Have I missed a goal change of English UHV?

REDY
Dec 17, 2006, 08:57 AM
You hadnt told about settling Asia in previous post...

Hitti-Litti
Dec 17, 2006, 10:19 AM
So the UHV needs settling in Asia too. Hmm... Do you need to found cities there or capture? If capture, then I think cavalry-rush to India would be appropriate. If settle, then maybe India needs to be crushed and re-settled...

REDY
Dec 17, 2006, 01:03 PM
So the UHV needs settling in Asia too. Hmm... Do you need to found cities there or capture? If capture, then I think cavalry-rush to India would be appropriate. If settle, then maybe India needs to be crushed and re-settled...
Hey I dont know, so I ask:D

McA123
Dec 19, 2006, 12:27 PM
There's a thread showing the areas that need to be settled for every continent, and while I can't find it out of hand, Asia is not considered to be part of Europe, to make Eurasia. two different continents. Also, I'd say that you probably have to settle the cities, not just take 'em.

Hitti-Litti
Dec 19, 2006, 12:38 PM
Then beelining to chemistry or my favorite, military tradition, could be useful in resettling China or India.

My ideas about 1)India: Crush border cities, capture Delhi(most cultural and populous) city, work on food tiles, spawn settlers. 2)China: Raze southern cities, but not northern cities, they will flip to Independent Cities. Take Beijing or Hangzhou, work on food and spawn settlers.

McA123
Dec 20, 2006, 12:55 PM
Actually, I'm mid-way through an English UHV (the first time I've ever seriously attempted a UHV!) and I'm going to win, I was first into Industrial, so I'm just waiting for the Modern Era to roll around. Anyways, for goal number 2, I just razed and re-settled Singapore (from the Indians, and I razed it just to be safe) and then founded two un-scripted cities in Russia (one on that peninsual near Japan with the whales nearby, and one near the gems in northern Russia), achieved goal number 2 and then promptly erased them with the world builder.

Abegweit
Dec 21, 2006, 08:06 PM
@ NitroJay. About the Indians. Great analysis, dood!

You are absolutely right about which five religions are required to consistently meet the Indian UHV. Attempting to steal Confucianism or Taoism is far too iffy. You are also spot on the money when you say that the first priority is Judaism and that the only way to grab Islam is to do it with a couple of GPs.

I'd like to suggest a refinement of your methods, one which I think does a better job of meeting the secondary goals - protection from the Persians and growth to becoming the largest civ in 1200AD.

To start with, Stonehenge is NOT necessary. By skipping it, you can grow faster to reach the 1200AD target with ease. Furthermore, you can train defenders to keep the AI off your back. Maybe even whomp a bit of Persian ass.

You are absolutely right that the initial research order has to be Masonry- Polytheism- Monotheism- Meditation. Thereafter, though, it is no longer essential to maniacally pursue religion. You have won the initial race and it is appropriate to mix in other useful techs after this. After refining your method, I continue from here with The Wheel-Priesthood-Bronze Working- Writing- Agriculture- Animal Husbandry- Monarchy. IOW, mix in worker techs. I hope be able to trade for Iron Working, since we have the metal. I will research it myself if I have to. We have iron. With a couple of spears and axes, the game is in the bag.

The build order in the capital should be warrior- warrior- settler- worker- something- something- Oracle. My choice for "something- something" is settler- barracks. A third city doesn't add much to your research effort but it is a source of defenders and, in the long run, of people for your growth target.

T-city (I agree with the location) starts immediately on the Parthenon from day one. Once in wonder-building mode, both cities should emphasize production as much as possible. When you have The Wheel, join the capital to bring the marble over. Not to mention religion. When you get Bronze Working, chop and whip both cities silly. After they have completed their wonders, both cities should build a temple and hire a priest. That will get out two GPs, one from each city, before the Arabs appear.

Advantages:
1) the wonder-building era is over sooner and the growth phase can begin sooner.
2) you can build soldiers without worrying about what will happen to your economy.

Disadvantages:
Not much but the sequence is tight. You need to get the Oracle and Temple built in Delhi ASAP. Otherwise the Arabs will appear before your second GP.

Pittfalls:
1) While it is possible to research Alpha before Divine Right, this is a mistake because your GPs will want to lightbulb Literature.
2) Divine Right is 2 GPs plus a bit. The sequence is tight. You'll want the bit before the second GP.

HannibalBarka
Dec 22, 2006, 03:39 AM
You hadnt told about settling Asia in previous post...

If you don't want to have trouble, send three settlers and half a dozen military with them to Kamshatka, build the three cities there just before 1700, so you delay the cost as far as you can since those cities will cost you a lot du to the distnace from London. But make sure you galleon get there on time ;)
Australia (again you'll need 8 turns for your galley to get there) and S Africa are easier (no other civs or flip problems) and more productive (the area is muccccccccccccccccccccccccch nicer: gems, sugar, etc). Settling the Americas is very easy, you need 1/2 turns to get there and there is enough space in Quebec and around the Hudson bay.

Mercenary82
Dec 22, 2006, 11:27 AM
Or you can found much beter colonies in asia such as Singapore, Hong Kong,
and Calcutta, razing the surounding cities with redcoats before 1700 is not very hard to do, and much more fun.

McA123
Dec 22, 2006, 06:39 PM
That was my original plan, but I was extremely pressed for time. I managed to achieve goal number two with like 5 turns to spare.

NitroJay
Dec 25, 2006, 02:32 PM
@ Abegweit:

You know, your plan sounds like it would work much better... I have a long flight to LA and back tonight, I'm going to give it a shot... The only thing there that I'm a little iffy about is the GP production... Even without having the passifist civic they still come out in time? Hmm... I'll give it a shot...

Abegweit
Dec 25, 2006, 03:47 PM
@ Abegweit:

You know, your plan sounds like it would work much better...It's not my plan; it's yours. :lol: I just took what you suggested and made some little modifications. You did the hard work.

I have a long flight to LA and back tonight, I'm going to give it a shot...Merry Christmas!

The only thing there that I'm a little iffy about is the GP production... Even without having the passifist civic they still come out in time? Hmm... I'll give it a shot...The priest is sufficient to make up for it. I typically get the second one in the early 500s AD. It actually makes little difference which city finishes first. The one that does can concentrate on growing the civ. There is one advantage in finishing T-town first. Delhi is guaranteed to get a GP while T-town may get a GA. The Artist will want to light bulb Lit if you research/trade for Alpha. Priests don't care about such things, so you can get this very useful tech.

The only thing is that you need to get a bit of self-research on DR. IIRC, each GP is worth about 1026 and DR costs 2368 so the diff is roughly 316. I'm sure you knew that though.

REDY
Dec 26, 2006, 04:47 AM
Ok I made it!
Firstly, I settled British isles. Porstmouth, Manchester and London. Inverness was traded from Vikings, so I got large boost and used last settler in Limerick. After it I decided boost economy and grown and link direct scientific development to Galleons. Built 2 caravels to reach first goal. I reached galleons relatively after my workers build all improvements which I could. So I built 3 settlers and 6 longbowmen. Settled South Africa with two and Australia with one and also sent orkers there. After my galleons were back, I built same number and settled Australia with another, one in Falkland Isles and one in Canada. Most developed cities in South Africa, Australia and this one city in Canada built settler by their own. Now I got Redcoats so I send galleons to strenghtened defend and started large building redcoats and settler to large reach - Asia. But it was about 1600 when I found that I will not be able to build 3 settlers in time. So I loaded one settler, 8 redcoats and 3 cavalries and captured One independant city(former Persia), And 3 neutral or barbarian cities in Indochina, only settler settled Singapore and I grabed second goal, ithout founding 2 cities in Asia, only captured another 3! Nice surprise!
In the future I continued in settling. To time when I won (about 1870) I settled more cities in South Africa, Australia and Canada, lost this one city mentioned before to Persian revolution, vassalized peacfully Arabia and Mali, by culture captured American Chicago and by congresses got two In cities from eastern India. In south Africa I captured one native city too. My defensive pacts were randomly by time with Egypt and America, but with large number of redcoats I had only one war thanks bug "nice to meet you, lets go war" with Japan. I was giving also presents when someone asked.

Mercenary82
Dec 27, 2006, 08:55 AM
You need to be the one to found the cities, I ended up razing all of India and dropped 3 setttlers there and it worked.

Spearthrower
Dec 27, 2006, 10:58 AM
You need to be the one to found the cities, I ended up razing all of India and dropped 3 setttlers there and it worked.

I took over the Barbarian and Independent cities and still won - only founded Singapore myself. The other 2 were Pagan and Angkor.

werttrew
Dec 27, 2006, 01:37 PM
I took over the Barbarian and Independent cities and still won - only founded Singapore myself. The other 2 were Pagan and Angkor.

That's right. I took over Pagan, Macau, and Angkor and still achieved the historical victory, despite not "founding" cities in Asia myself.

Tommy1234567890
Dec 27, 2006, 07:44 PM
Im playing with the romans and most of the European Civs spawned already.

They seem to have a couple of advanced techs will they soon lag behind the tech tree or will they have a consistent flow of more technological techs?

Also the Greeks are Pleased with me so are the French somewhat.

My real question is that im planing to attack the Egiyptians.I have 3 Armies each of 3 Pateroians well promoted 1 catapult to reduce any city defences and 2 spearmen to attack any mounted units

I already know I can count on the Greeks to help me out if needed but,every 2 turns I seem to be getting barb horse archers and cammel archers. Should I hunt down the city that they come from in southern africa or just go with my campaign againt Egypt?

Lord Apolon
Dec 27, 2006, 08:16 PM
Chances are the Europeans will do a good job of keeping up the tech pace.. they are the way of the future, meant to supplant you. So keeping up/catching up may take a while, unless you can broker techs around.

North Africa is tough, because those barbarians don't
come from a city--they are just wild nomads and will keep on coming until a certain point. That certain point is approximately the year 900 A.D.. You can't do anything about it besides leaving good defense at home. So go with your campaign if you can, but keep well-fortified and promoted spearmen in Carthago. Best of luck turning the tide!

Mercenary82
Dec 27, 2006, 10:06 PM
You should rush Egypt with the 3 or 4 praets you have left Immediatley after taking Carthage out, sometimes thats all you need to take Egypt out if your lucky, at the very least its enough to take Per-Wadjet before making peace.

Tommy1234567890
Dec 28, 2006, 12:40 PM
Thanks Lord Apalon and Mercenary,

I have started and it is going quite well. The Capitale City is almost mine just a few more trns of cataputs and I can attack. As for the barbs they are not a problem anymore since I can now promote my spears to Pike men and since they were always defending against them they have good Promotions.

That brings me to my other question. I always keep the Capitals or any big city I capture, But for the rest should I raze them or keep them? This has always been a big question for me.

werttrew
Dec 28, 2006, 09:44 PM
Whew! After about five tries, I finally achieved the Roman Historical Victory on Monarch, using today’s Warlords update. Here's my suggestions on how to accomplish it, based on how I did it.

First, the historical victory requirements:
1. By 450 A.D./Turn 143
450-turn 143—every city size 5 or more must be:
connected to the capital
have barracks
have an aqueduct
have an amphitheatre
2. By 450 A.D./Turn 143
Emulate the reaches of Rome's Western Empire: Three cities in France, two on west coast of northern Africa, two in Spain, one in England.
3. Before 1400 AD, no city lost to barbs


First turn:
I took the four Praets and put them all on the two galleys. I sent my archers down southeast to be picked up later. I sent my workers to minethe iron to the northeast. The galleys stop right outside of the borders of Carthage, and depending on their mood, you may be able to trade some techs with them. I set Rome to building a trireme-forge-barracks.

I set tech for agriculture, then monarchy, then mathematics, then construction, but since I was beaten to the Coliseum, this may not be the best tactic. My reasoning: agriculture for fields so you can pump out settlers, monarchy for the wine and happiness of “impressing” armies, math for the catapults, and construction for the Coliseum/Great Wall. Making a beeline for theology and Christianity is risky, but it may work as well (I never tried it myself.)

Second turn: Declare war on Carthage and rush them with the four Praets. You should be able to attack directly from sea and lose only one, if any. (If not, I'd just reload the scenario—too early to lose precious Praets.) You may even be able to pick up another worker from them. If you're lucky, you won't end up razing Carthage, but if you do, no big deal. Better to eliminate the civ now then to let them grow into a problem later.

Around the second/third turn Medio flips. Send one of their archers down to keep Rome happy. I set Medio to archer-settler-archer-settler, ad infinitum, with some workers in the mix as well as needed.

Third-Tenth Turns: Reload all the Praets on the gallies and head to Greece. Trade a few techs with them and then, naturally, attack. Athens has always been pretty weak in my experiences. If you're lucky, they may also have settled Constantinople, so you can take that too (if your Praets survive!). If they have any cities left afterwards, no problem, the Greek civ should crumble within a few turns. Any independent civ of Greek leftovers will not be aggressive, and may even act as a buffer from Babylon or Persia if they're in Turkey, as was the case with my game.

Carthage and Athens I tend to set up as Wonder building towns, guarding them with just an archer apiece for now (the archers I had sent southeast of Italy in turn one, picked up by galleys.) Athens is a great place to build the Great Wall if you can, and that eliminates a great deal of headaches from barbarians later on. But for now build the Great Lighthouse—it will keep you afloat financially when your empire gets huge and unwieldly. I'd set Carthage on the Parthenon.

So, by this stage you have at least three cities: Athens, Medio, and Rome, and maybe Carthage.

10th-142th turn: Some keys at this stage:
1. At least two Brennus cities will spawn in France. Taking them over is fairly easy. In the last scenario no Paris city spawned, so I had to settle that one myself. So, don't send settlers into France right away--better to take over their cities then use up one of your settlers.
2. Speaking of settlers: You need to become a settler factory. In previous games I kept trying to make Rome a military-only town and found that I simply couldn’t settle all my cities in time. You’ll need at least one settler for North Africa (two if Carthage is razed); two for Spain; one for London; and possibly one for France. I didn’t bother with settling a city in the bootheel of Italy until after 450; I did’t have a settler to spare.
3. Forget conquering any other civs or cities until after turn 450. Jerusalem and Egypt are tempting, but they spread you out too thin.
4. Keep a good road network between your cities. Rome should be churning out Praets at least every other turn. Barbarians will pop up in Spain and in Germany by the fours and sixes, and will be very aggressive. I kept a squadron of four Praets in southeast France, since it was midways between where they liked to spawn. Again, keep your worker busy with roads! Use the Roman Unique Power to its best advantage.
5. Your Spanish/French/English cities should take up few resources. I build monuments (for culture) if I don’t have a religion handy, but otherwise spend little time on them. Maximize production with them, churning out military units.
6. The easiest way to deal with the adequct/ampitheatre/barracks requirement for cities size five or larger? Have no cities size five or larger. I set my cities to No Growth once they hit level 4, or make sure to keep them low with slavery rushes, at least by turn 144. I had no city over city 4 when 450 AD hit in my victory.
7. As soon as I can, I set an engineer in Rome, towards building a Great Engineer: very handy for a Great Wall or a Coliseum rush later on.

143th turn-1400 AD
Managing to get both the 450 AD historical victories is the hard part. After that, barbarians shouldn’t be too much of a problem, except perhaps around Carthage, and some spearmen/praets should be enough to keep it safe. I was able to cruise to the third historical victory pretty easily by this point.

Then it’s a matter of seeing your cities get peeled away by Spain, England, and France. From 450 AD to the eighth century those flip-vulnerable cities just build workers or military units for me—I wouldn't bother to invest any buildings, except perhaps walls and monuments. When the change comes, I always “agreed the flip” because the loss of cities actually helped stabilize my badly bleeding economy.

Now, I would settle cities on the Balkan coast and the bootheel of Italy. Depending on the size of my army and the strength of the Eastern civilizations like Egypt, Babylon, and Arabia, you may want to push into the Middle East (beware the eventual Turkey flip, however).


Anyhow, that’s my advice, based on my Roman Historical Victory.

LuKo
Dec 29, 2006, 03:57 AM
Hmmm... I was playing on version 1.09, so I didn't get UHV. I have some questions: conquering Athens & building there The Great Lighthouse is really good for Roman economy? In my game I had built Great Wall in Rome but still I was able to settle all needed places- building this wonder in Athens give more time? If you had build Great Wall defence vs barbarians in Spain & Africa isn't needed any more...

Lord Oden
Dec 29, 2006, 09:23 AM
werttrew,

Could you show on the map where your cities were located? I tried the Roman UHV but I did not have my cities in the right places. See the atlas thread about where I placed mine.

werttrew
Dec 29, 2006, 09:54 AM
Hmmm... I was playing on version 1.09, so I didn't get UHV. I have some questions: conquering Athens & building there The Great Lighthouse is really good for Roman economy? In my game I had built Great Wall in Rome but still I was able to settle all needed places- building this wonder in Athens give more time? If you had build Great Wall defence vs barbarians in Spain & Africa isn't needed any more...

The Great Lighthouse was my tactic, but building the Great Wall before would certainly be a tenable idea. I just didn't get the tech in time.

My problem was in earlier scenarios I had attempted that by the time I was close to founding all my cities that I'd be running 10 or 0 percent science. With the Great Lighthouse early on, I could manage 50-30.

(Another tactic that I didn't try but I think would work is to simply leave a settler and archer in the London spot till turn 142 or so, then settle it right before the year 450. That way you won't have the egregious upkeep costs for London draining you.)

werttrew,

Could you show on the map where your cities were located? I tried the Roman UHV but I did not have my cities in the right places. See the atlas thread about where I placed mine.
Lord Oden: I simply filled in the gaps as listed here: http://zepto-angstrom.co.uk/scrap/rfcmap/index.html

But to answer your question specifically, I founded cities in:
*London
*Paris
*Lisbon (On the west Iberian coast, just north of the southern river)
*Carthage
*In North Africa, southeast of Gibraltar, just north of a horse resource
*In Spain, just east of horse resource, north of a river.
The other two French cities I conquered from Brennus.

LuKo
Dec 29, 2006, 10:02 AM
werttrew,

Could you show on the map where your cities were located? I tried the Roman UHV but I did not have my cities in the right places. See the atlas thread about where I placed mine.

Hmmm... In version 1.09 was bug- now using atlas you'll know, where place them.

Lord Apolon
Jan 07, 2007, 03:26 PM
Background: so I just played a game as Arabia, which went well until the Turks stole... well, Turkey, when they spawned. I collapsed and began taking back my empire (which stretched from Egypt to India) but decided to switch to Mongolia instead. Shortly after the switch the now AI Arabia became extinct.

So my question, really, is how to do well as Mongolia. I had an okay start; I took Beijing on the second turn after the switch and Luoyang shortly after, then China collapsed and UHV #1 was fulfilled. It took a long time, however, to rebuild enough of an army to take the independendent cities, namely Hangzhou, the Tao and Confucian Holy City on the coast. I took Seoul and another city on the coast between Korea and Beijing, founded Macau, and the conquest of China was complete.

That's the obvious first step. From there I began having problems.. namely, what the next step was. I converted to Confucianism b/c of the Holy City, despite a strong Buddhist population in the native Mongolian cities. Civics were Hereditary Rule/Vassalage/Serfdom (the Chinese had horrendous infrastructure and obviously Mongolia had none)/Paganism, which became Theocracy eventually. Skipped OR because I didn't have Monotheism when the revolution came and the Mongols are military anyway.

So I turtled for a while, not really knowing what to do, while I stabilized and built infrastructure on the land and buildings in the towns. Once things started running smoothly I built up a lot of Keshiks and a few 'pults and fought a quick war with Russia to take Samarkand, which they had acquired somehow. Quick and easy. At the same time I finished the Silk Road. This was already after 1500, so UHV #2 was failed, although I had no hopes there anyway.

Samarkand didn't have much breathing room because of worthless Turkish cities east of the Caspian, which ate up almost all of its cultural radius. So after some more keshiks and trebs arrived I blitzed Turkey, probably around 1600. Burned 3 worthless cities the first turn, getting Sam the space it needed. After that, though, things got rough, because the Turks had janissaries, knights, and a lot of cannons. They halted my advance north of the Caspian, but my goal was finished; Samarkand had space, and I could prepare for the next wars: either a full-scale invasion of Japan, for which the navy was already waiting, or an attack on the independent lands. Persia, India, and most of the Middle East were still independent (because the AI still doesn't seem to attack the independents), although Egypt re-emerged in 1600.

But it was not to be. After the offensive failed, I quickly degrated from Stable to Unstable, then to Collapsing. I'm not quite sure why--income was positive, science rate was decent, lots of luxuries, only one unhappy city (Hangzhou grows too quickly for its own good!). Did I overextend myself? My Arabian empire had been larger and fairly stable until the Turks came. Was it because of losing units, most of which were high level? (Vassalage + Theocracy + Barracks + Ger = 11 base XP for Keshiks, 13 in Khanbaliq because of a General).. almost all of my units were level 3 or higher. Did losing five or six of these in a turn send me plummeting? What else could it be?

In 1665, Civil War broke out in Mongolia. I spawned some hostile swordsmen outside Karakoron (which was my one city, not Khanbaliq, where I had moved the palace, interestingly) in the WB, and that was the end of it. Didn't feel like rebuilding an only middling empire.

And, more importantly, what do you recommend to do as Mongolia after the conquest of China? I'd guess I shouldn't have turtled, and perhaps have blitzed Japan early on, even though the land would only be a pain to hold onto. But eventually to create a semi-historical Mongolia you have to move west... what should I have done instead to create a sprawling Old World empire which could have stood the test of time and rocked Russia to its foundations?

Any tips would be welcome.. I don't blame the AI as much for always doing badly with Mongolia when I can't do better myself. At least I bothered to invade China, unlike the AI! :lol: Thanks!

davbenbak
Jan 07, 2007, 05:46 PM
Won a cultural victory as Rome (easy) and Time victories as the Eygptians (took two tries) and Chinese (very easy to take out India and have Mongol cities cultural flip to me). No luck with the Greeks though. Too much rebellion and always at exactly the wrong time. Lost my third founded city to the Romans when they spawned which was a real speed bump in my early game. Later after kicking their ass, I had constant revolts by Turkish, Roman and Russian cities. Never did completly do away with Russia (I already had their oil) as I was too busy in the middle east maintianing control of the holy cities. Any way to reduce the lielyhood of cities revolting back to their previously eliminated owner?

Rhye
Jan 08, 2007, 06:11 AM
Won a cultural victory as Rome (easy) and Time victories as the Eygptians (took two tries) and Chinese (very easy to take out India and have Mongol cities cultural flip to me). No luck with the Greeks though. Too much rebellion and always at exactly the wrong time. Lost my third founded city to the Romans when they spawned which was a real speed bump in my early game. Later after kicking their ass, I had constant revolts by Turkish, Roman and Russian cities. Never did completly do away with Russia (I already had their oil) as I was too busy in the middle east maintianing control of the holy cities. Any way to reduce the lielyhood of cities revolting back to their previously eliminated owner?

which version were you playing?

davbenbak
Jan 08, 2007, 06:25 AM
warord 1.09. I just d/l'ed the latest version and will give the Greeks a try again on the easiest setting

Mercenary82
Jan 08, 2007, 10:13 PM
Just won this on monarch level, RFCW v119. This is one of the harder UHV's in my opinion, and took me several tries to get it, here's how it goes.

First off we should settle 1 tile North to get the horse, stone, marble, and copper all in range of the capital, giving it great production later on. Your early research order should be: Animal husbandry, mining, masonry, mysticism, then beelining to literature. Start building a worker and research animal husbandry right away, we need war chariots ASAP. When the worker is complete, send it directly 1 tile east of the captial where the horses will appear and have it build a road, then a pasture once AH is researched and road is complete. The capital should be building warriors until then, and have the worker build a farm on the wheat, then a quarry on the stone, then the marble.

Immediatley begin working the pasture once the capital is size 2, and begin building 2 war chariots. Once the first is complete, pass through independent territory, and send it straight to Babylon, it will only have a warrior guarding it. Capture Babylon, and use a couple warriors to guard it, and raze Nineveh if they buit it yet. Your second war chariot should be on its way to babylon also, once both are healed, send them towards Delhi, it too will only be guarded by a couple warriors if you attack quick enough. You should be building the Pyramids in Niwt-Rst after building the 2 war chariots, and building Stonehenge in Babylon. After taking Delhi, make peace with India, hook the marble up there, and begin building the Temple of Artemis in Delhi.

Once Niwt-Rst finishes the Pyramids, have it build a 3-4 more war chariots, and begin a settler in Babylon as soon as stonehenge is complete. Now capture Jerusalem, have it work the forrest, and start on the Great Lighthouse. Build the GL in the capital as soon as you get Literature, then you can also squeeze the Oracle and Parthenon in as well.

Anyway, with Delhi, Babylon, and Jerusalem in your hands early enough its quite easy to get the 5000 culture goal, just be ready to hold the Camel Archers and Impis off until 450 AD. Using this strategy, I had 7288 culture by year 450 AD.

fearuin
Jan 09, 2007, 09:04 AM
Interesting conquest strategy to get UHV! I play Vanilla, so instead of Babylon, I'm suppoused to go for Persepolis? Babylon is usually barb. Anyway, my questions are:
1.- Did you founded/conquered more cities?
2.- Didn't you had some manteinance problems? Delhi is a little far away, I guess, Babylon too.

Abegweit
Jan 09, 2007, 10:18 AM
Interesting conquest strategy to get UHV! I play Vanilla, so instead of Babylon, I'm suppoused to go for Persepolis? Babylon is usually barb. Anyway, my questions are:
1.- Did you founded/conquered more cities?
2.- Didn't you had some manteinance problems? Delhi is a little far away, I guess, Babylon too.I think that this strat actually would work better on Vanilla than Warlords. He goes for Babylon and Delhi because the barb cities are better protected and he can't take them immediately. Forget Persepolis. If you attack the Persians, they will shred you into mincemeat. Besides, they arrive too late to make a difference to the UHV.

As I note on my own Strategy Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=200864) (shameless plug :D ), you get five (maybe six, I'm never sure) free shots at the barbs. Now the key difference between RFC and RFCW is that Babylon and Jerusalem are barb in vanilla. This is a tactic I refined as the Greeks but, in playing with around, it seems to work fine for the Egyptians too. Better actually, because the Alex is in a race with the clock to get the job done before Cyrus appears.

Get out two chariots and take them down. Attack the archers first. There should be three in Jerusalem, one in Babylon and one in Sur. That's five shots. Get them first. Then keep working your way through the barb cities. There's no rush. The pillage money is huge. You should get workers too.

There are too many cities here. Shushan and Sur should be razed. In particular, Shushan is a Persian city. Deny it to them! Take out Shushan and Ur, then move up to towards Ninevah and Hattusas. Instant empire!

I tried this to the point where I took my first city, Babylon. I see that Nineveh hadn't appeared by this time. Don't worry, it will.

You'll also find an Egypt strat on that thread too, one which works fine in Vanilla. For reasons I explain there, your next tech after Masonry should be Pottery.

NitroJay
Jan 09, 2007, 11:26 AM
Wow, that Egypt strategy is just amazing! I play Egypt alot, and I've never thought about pursuing the UHV in this way! Great job, Mercenary 82, for thinking outside the box!

I just gave your strategy a shot myself, it didn't quite go as well though, at first... My invasion into Babylonia stalled, I think I didn't get my chariots built quick enough... I restarted and followed your plan EXACTLY (in the beginning) and was able to conquer Babylon (and Jerusalem + other independants) to win the UHV. Didn't need to go to India. The spread of Judaism to all of the formerly barb cities in addition to the Pyramids/Stonehenge/Lighthouse combo got me the culture victories easy. Developing my cities further, forgoing building into Africa, gave me enough research to get to Literature and rush build the Great Library with a held over GE via the pyramids...

EXCELLENT stragtegy! A great un-historical way to win a historical victory... Loved it! Thanks!

Mercenary82
Jan 09, 2007, 12:01 PM
My strategy works a little different in vanilla due to the better defended barb cities. Persia comes too late, and is to strong, so don't fight them. You just need to take the barb cities with your free wins ( first 5 barb fights are guaranteed to win), Try to make sure you capture Babylon at least, then you may have to wait for Greece or Persia to attack the other cities and weaken them before you capture/ raze them with chariots, this means you usually won't be able to take Delhi Early on though.

As for maintenance costs, yes they get a little high, but you can make up for it by using the gold from conquered/ razed cities, you should raze Shushan, Sur, Hattusas, and Gordium, and hire the war chariots, and a couple promoted warriors out as mercs before Rome, Japan, and Carthage spawns.

Even doing this your economy may stagnate, but you just need to hold on till alphabet, then build research to get literature and trade for techs that you missed.

As for cities I conquered/ founded, I ended up only building 2 cities, my capital 1 tile north of starting position, and Per Wadjet using a settler from Babylon ( mainly just to chop the GL since Niwt-Rst had to build a few axes and spears) the other cities I had were Babylon, Jerusalem, and Delhi.

Taking Delhi also has the advantage of giving you more time to get the Oracle, they almost always go for it early on.

As for being historical, to me this is sort of historical as Egypt did try to expand into the middle east, (the battle of Kadesh) I just took it a little further by taking Babylon and Delhi.

Abgeweit, your strategy also looks interesting, I didnt think a peacful UHV was possible, I'll have to try it!

NitroJay
Jan 09, 2007, 04:16 PM
Oh yeah, I've consistantly won a UHV with Egypt peacefully, it's not too difficult... Just get started on wonders early (pyramids especially) and make sure you found Judaism before it auto-founds...

I'm loving this new approach though! I just played another game and, for the first time, I have an Egypt that is a military powerhouse... I've made a vassal of Carthage and Mali, and conquered Babylon, Arabia, Persia, Turkey, and India... This is KILLING me! I love it!!! Kudos again to you, Mercenary 82, for opening up a whole new way of looking at Egypt!!!

Mercenary82
Jan 09, 2007, 06:35 PM
Yeah Egypt is definitely in a strong position to be a military powerhouse if you want to just use my early conquest strategy and avoid going for the UHV.
One other thing I forgot to mention is the only real military threat to the UHV, the Persians. You absolutely must not aggravate Cyrus at all early on, controlling Babylon and Delhi will give you at least -2 for close borders.
To counter this, you must give in to any demand he makes, give him open borders, and try to get the +4 trade relations are forthright bonus. To get this before alphabet, capture Samarkand after Cyrus spawns, and gift it to him. Even doing all this he may still declare war eventually, but usually it will be later on (and when he is no longer a threat due to barb HA's) if relations are good.

werttrew
Jan 09, 2007, 08:04 PM
Mali Strategy Guide

Goal one: 1st in gold by 1300 AD
Goal two: 5000 gold by 1500 AD
Goal three: 20,000 gold by 1700 AD

Benchmarks:
By 1300, I had about 1400 gold, +85 a turn.
By 1400, I had about 2350, +120.
By 1450, I had about 2600, +145.
By 1500, I had about 5300, +185.
By 1550, I had about 8000, +250.
By 1600, I had about 11,500, +285.
By 1650, I had about 15,500, +360.
1700 AD: 20136 gold, +468.


Beginning (Turn 189/980 AD) to 1300 AD

I go slavery/monarch on the first turn. The skirmishers I send with the settlers to guard founded cities (three with Timbuktu).

I found Timbuktu one grid southeast of the starting spot, Accra directly south of Timbuktu on the coast, and Djenne to the west-southwest of Timbuktu, just northeast of the gems spot, not on the coast.

Builds:
Timbuktu goes Aqueduct, Market, Mint, all slave rushed.
Djenne goes scout, settler, settler, market. Djenne uses two floodplains while Timbuktu is growing, but eventually just goes to one. The scout I send northeast to find Egypt, Greece, Rome, Carthage, depending who’s still around, of course
Accra goes fishing boat, trireme, trireme, lighthouse, galley, then caravel, then galley. I slave rush whenever I can.

Science:
Science at 100 percent. Get fishing—sailing—compass--optics, then slide science to zero. Later on I’ll bargain and trade for Calendar, Code of Laws, Civil Service and Paper, but I’ll leave my science at zero percent for the rest of the game. I’ll pick up Feudalism and Engineering pretty easily too from trades.

Tactics:
I have the three workers build five cottages around Timbuktu, then mine the gold, then the ivory north of Accra, then depending on how far culture spreads, the other two floodplains and the gems. Ivory is the most valued resource, so I develop it as soon as I can.

I emphasize growth in Timbuktu and slave rush the aqueduct, market, and mint as soon as I can. I then let Timbuktu grow to a six and start using merchants. With enough trading for health bonuses, I was able to get Timbuktu to a size 8 with two merchants. I’ll plant three of my eventual great merchants in Timbuktu; the last one I used for banking.

Djenne’s first settler goes east to found Zaria, northeast of the last ivory and just within range of the cows to the east. Zaria goes skirmisher-barracks-military unit ad nauseum.

I upgrade my trireme to caravel when I can and go north to gain contacts with Western Europe and through the Mediterranean to pick up any other missing contacts (like Turkey or Arabia). Vikings, French, English, and Carthage seemed to be the most affable traders. I would trade Divine Right and Theology to catch up to most of the civs’ minor techs and gain some gold too.

In most times I’ve played I’ve been able to avoid war by rolling over every time a civ begs/demands something. Losing 110 gold here or there seems more cost effective than a protracted war, which I got caught in one version with Carthage that ended up losing me considerably more (in upgrades and slave rushes). Spain seems particularly bellicose, so I offer them gifts and play nice.

Trading the crab resource for wheat is effective not only for stability but because the granaries in all the cities make wheat more health-effective than crab. I keep one ivory at all times, but trade the rest as soon as I can for health bonuses and gold.

I usually would end up with Islam in my cities, but I never switched to an official religion. Not only is an extra turn of anarchy a pain, but I wanted to make no civ any more upset with me than I absolutely had to—I never went to war once in my winning game.


1300 to 1500 AD
Timbuktu builds walls-castle and eventually Grocer, once I got the tech. Building a barracks is also a worthwhile investment, as trained mercenaries can yield good money.

While one caravel tours Europe, the other goes under South America and establishes contact with Japan/China/India/Persia and complete the circumnavigation. The circumnavigation bonus comes in handing not only for selling maps but for moving galleys quickly down Africa’s coast to found cities or reinforce them with longbowmen. After the circumnavigation the caravels also contact Aztecs, Incas, and Mongolians, then explore Australian and New World coastline (good for selling maps later).

I have a lot of Impis around Zaria, so I keep a couple of longbowmen around there (Feudalism is usually pretty easy to trade for). They build a lot of explorers, too, as explorers are a popular mercenary hire—I could usually have three or four hired out at the same time.

Around 1430 I gamble with 900 gold and a couple of techs to pick up guilds from the Vikings. This paid off in the long run since with a grocer in Timbuktu I was able to make much more, but it was nip and tuck to get to 1500 with 5000 gold.

Because around 1550 AD Kongo pops up in the bottom west of Africa and starts building up an army of Impis, I pre-empt them by planting a settler there. The city never really amounts to much, but it brings in a fish bonus and it can pay off with a harbor as well.

1500-1700
I got lucky and India traded guilds for civil service. I switch to bureaucracy right away—the last anarchy I’ll have. I found a city in the far southeast corner of Africa, right where gold/sugar/copper/gems are accessible. I built a couple of skirmishers and a work boat here before I started with a worker—Impis are a bear. I usually have to slave rush a skirmisher and keep it pretty well fortified.

The golden age from 1505-1545 is really sweet, and I emphasize commerce as much as I can to take advantage of it.

Between 1550-1600 I sent a couple more settlers to found cities in South Africa, but they never really got anywhere by 1700, so they probably weren’t worth the bother except to create a lot of workers. Accra builds markets/Grocers/settlers as needed; I put the Triumphal Arch in Timbuktu to use by building military units—war elephants and explorers, which I promptly put on the mercenary market.

At 1600 I took another risk and spent a bit (170/Drama/World map) to pick up Paper from the Indians. I then was able to barter for Inca maps, which I promptly sold to other civs.

At 1650 I used my last Great Merchant to find banking. I trade banking for gunpowder and philosophy with other civs, then sell what techs I can to other civs. (By this point, selling Guilds to Aztecs for 10 gold is a bargain). I slave Timbuktu down to 5 for a bank, and as it grows I have it take all the floodplains from Djenne and Zaria. I no longer bother with specialists but throw everything into commerce. I traded away every resource I could spare and just made the 20,000 goal.



Some mistakes I made in earlier attempts:
*I went too far along in science before switching to 0 percent science (I only went to Optics in my winning game)
*I switched to Mercantilism (the foreign trade routes are too valuable)
*I sent Skirmishers out exploring, when they should have just been keeping Timbuktu happy.
*I didn’t bother with building Castles (again, the extra trade route in Timbuktu is very nice).
*I sent Great Merchants to foreign countries (better to plug all but maybe the last one in Timbuktu—more gold in the long run)
*I held out on selling maps too late (as soon as a civ picked up paper, I’d sell them my maps)

Mercenary82
Jan 10, 2007, 02:17 AM
Babylon conquest Victory.

This one was pretty cheesy, but I''l share how I got a conquest victory with Babylon.

My plan was to kill Egypt, India, Greece, and China before anyone has a chance to spawn. This also includes taking the Independent cities of Yerushalym, Sur, Shushan, and Afrosiab (Samarkand).

I settled at Ashur ( 1 tile NE of start) this has better early production, health, and will flip Shushan Much sooner. Build warriors until we get archery , research is hunting and archery, and thats it, you won't need anymore techs.
You should have archery, around the same time as shushan flips, do not disband it, we need this city. Ashur should be size 2 around now, have 1 citizen work the forrset hill plain, and have shushan only work the forrest. Now set both cities to build continus Bowmen, send your first 3 at Egypt.

You will have to declare on Independents to pass through, ignore their units and cities for now, attack and raze Egypt's only city, it should have only a warrior or 2 defenders, so you'll only lose an archer or 2. You then should attack India with your next 3 archers, also send the next 3 built, 1 by 1. keep delhi and raze his other city if he built it yet, Produce archers in Delhi as well.
Babylon's Asharittu bowman have the ability to pass through jungle, we will attack china that way. Your first group of three healed archers, and all archers built in Delhi will head east through the India jungles, then North through the hills towards Beijing if done fast enough, they will only have warriors also, same deal here, raze Beijing, and his other city near the coast.

At the same time you should be sending your next 8 archers in a stack from Ashur and Shushan, they need to arrive within a few turns of Greeces spawn. have archers built there continue heading that way 1 by 1 just in case. Try to wait till their phalanxes are outside before declaring war, you usually still have to face 1 fortified in athens, with a couple warriors, but 8 is usually enough to kill them.
Next, taking out the independent cities which is easy enough, just throw stacks of archers in 3 or more at each one till their dead, you only need to take Sur, Yerushalyim, and Samarkand, and you get a conquest victory before Persia spawns!

Abegweit
Jan 12, 2007, 09:27 AM
Babylon conquest Victory.

This one was pretty cheesy, but I''l share how I got a conquest victory with Babylon.

My plan was to kill Egypt, India, Greece, and China before anyone has a chance to spawn. This also includes taking the Independent cities of Yerushalym, Sur, Shushan, and Afrosiab (Samarkand).Quite cool! I have played this a few times.

It is easy enough to take out Egypt, India, China and the city states. Greece is a bit of a harder nut to crack, though, and I find that playing it exactly as suggested is pretty iffy. I've made a slight variant which seems to pretty much guarantee victory.

I send four warriors and two archers to Egypt. That's more than enough to take out Niwt-Rst. Actually six warriors would probably do it, but they'll get attacked by the Jews. They'll leave you alone if you have an archer escort though (perhaps one archer and six warriors would be best). You'll get a worker out of this. Escort it back home, along with the wounded soldiers. This means that one of the archers must stay out of the fighting.

In the meantime, continue to pump out archers back home. When you have about seven, quit that and start training warriors again. Keep researching to Bronze Working. Use your worker to the connect the copper. With the pillage money from Niwt-Rst and Delhi, you can upgrade four warriors. Using your new axemen, you can pillage the independent cities to get you enough to upgrade a couple more and a bankroll which will carry you through until you get to China. Add a couple of newly-trained axes to the crew and you'll have a fine welcoming party for the Greeks, especially as you'll probably have a Great General too. CRII and CRIII axes are such fun.

Mercenary82
Jan 12, 2007, 09:22 PM
Axemen can't cut through the jungle to hit china as fast as bowmen can, I usually reach China with a stack of bowmen around when Greece spawns, before China has any cats built yet.

Psyringe
Jan 16, 2007, 06:05 PM
Hi there,

I just browsed the thread and it seems that the strategy I used for my Egyptian Historical Victory two hours ago is not as obvious as I thought, so I thought I'd write the basics down.

Note: I don't claim that this is a brilliant, or even good, strategy. I simply don't have enough experience with RFC to evaluate it on that level. This was only my second RFC game after all, and it happened to run smoothly. I'm curious how the more experienced Egypt players rate the strategy. I played RFCW 1.19 on Monarch difficulty btw.

Key points:

1. Settle (i.e. found Niwt-rst) where you start.

2. Research Mysticism, then Masonry

3. While you're doing that, build one settler and one worker, and a warrior or two. The warrior's aren't really necessary, but they help making contact with other civs.

4. Send the settler to found Per-Wadjet in the northwest, one tile left of the wheat resource. That way it lies on the coast, has access to the wheat, fishes and three forest squares, and is connected to the capital by the Nile.

5. Use the worker to build a quarry on the stone resource. No need for roads here because the Nile connects most important tiles, instead of building roads move on to improve the marble and wheat tiles.

6. Build Stonehenge in Niwt-rst, followed by the Pyramids. It shouldn't be difficult to get those wonders, the few other AIs that are on the map at this time are still focused on expansion or building up an army.

7. Build the Great Lighthouse in Per-Wadjet. At first it will seem as it will never finish because the AI will only work the food tiles. Fine tune the production and switch to working the forest tiles, taking in account short periods of starvation, as long as it doesn't cost you population.

8. Keep an eye on your total culture. If you haven't dawdled, you should make the 500 culture points to fulfill your first objective.

9. Research Polytheism, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Alphabet and Literature next.

10. Build Libraries in both cities. Build the Parthenon in in Niwt-rst (not essential, but helpful). I also built the the Temple of Artemis in Per-Wadjet, but I'm not sure whether that's the best thing to do.

11. Pasture the horses next to Niwt-rst once they appear, to enhance the production capacity of your capital.

12. Somewhere in between, I also built three war chariots. They werent' actually useful though. Don't try to attack anybody, you're pathetically weak, but fortunately no ither civ can reach you (apart from the Carthaginians, but even these will be far away). Especially, don't invade Yerushalayim. As an independent city, Yerushalayim acts as a nice buffer between you and Babylon or Greece. Yerushalayim is your shield, because it is defended with archers, which we don't bother to build, we don't even have the technology.

13. Having Alphabet, you can go tech shoping with the other civs. It might be worthwile to get Pottery, Archery and especially Mining / Bronze Working. However, don't trade wonder technologies away until you're sure you'll get the wonder anyways (which is easy to estimate since no one can get a Great Engineer at this time except perhaps yourself). Note: You should get contact to Babylon and Greece when your scouting warriors (or your northern city) see one of their units across the city. Contact to Carthage and Rome can be made easily by sending a work boat into the Mediterranean. You want to build a workboat anyways to utilize the fish resource near Per-Wadjet, it doesn't hurt to send it westward first.

14. Build the Great Library in Niwt-rst. This completes the third objective for the HV, so that only the second objective remains. The Triumphal Arch will appear in your capital, starting a Golden Age. If you have successfully traded for Bronze Working, hook up the Copper resource and build two or three axemen and the same amount of spearmen there (using the production bonus from the arch). You'll need some protection later on. You can also try to build the Leaning Tower in Niwt-rst, but it's a bit of a gamble.

15. You now have to get 5000 culture by turn 143. No matter how many wonders you build, you won't make it with only two cities. But we're in an excellent position to get lots of culture with another method. Research Mathematics, then Music.

16. About now, your second Great Person should roll in (we accumulated a lot of GP bonuses in our capital). Chances are that it's either a scientist or an artist (chances for an artist are higher if you built the Leaning Tower). If you get an artist, you've won. Let it create its work, and together with the culture accumulated from your buildings, you're well above the 5000 mark. If you've got a scientist, you can use it to research Mathematics or (if you saved the Great Prophet that was likely your first Great Person) start another Golden Age to boost research.

17. Again, if you don't dawdle, you should get Music before turn 143. As nobody else will have Music that early, you'll get a free Great Artist, i.e. free 4000 culture points, i.e. free 80% of your last remaining objective. Create its work, and you've won.

18. From about turn 120 onwards, Impi will try to attack you. These are the reason why I recommended to build axemen, because they will simply tear through the Impi. They are also the reason why I'd stay away from war chariots, because these are nothing but free experience for any Impi. Also, barbarian horse riders or even camel riders may appear, which is a good reason to have a spearman or two. However, it's also possible to fortify the cities, let the barbarians / natives plunder your country, concentrate on research and still win the game. At that stage, you only need the Great Artist to win.

Voila. You've won a peaceful Historic Victory with just two cities.

Now I'm curious whether you think that that's working strategy, or did I just get lucky? Personally, I was surprised how smooth it was once I decided not to bother with War Chariots, and instead concentrate on getting Music first. What do you think?

Also, what can be improved? I didn't micromanage GPPs - there might a way to improve the chances of getting a great artist spawned from GPPs. I never used fogbusters or any other prevention against barbarians. I used only one worker during the entire game. So certainly there are things that I could have done better. :)

Abegweit
Jan 16, 2007, 07:55 PM
It's pretty good actually. You got the basics right. However, it is possible to have 5000 culture in your capital alone (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4962781&postcount=3) without any artists.

One thing you saw that I didn't: it is possible to fight the unhealthy starting position with a quick settler. Well done!

Mercenary82
Jan 16, 2007, 09:32 PM
Its a pretty good peacful strategy for Egypt, although it doesnt leave much of a margin for error, having only 2 cities means the game is lost if you lose 1.

Rome sometimes attacks from the sea with all 4 praets, if they do you're toast. I had the unfortunate experience of them taking Per-wadjet from me just before it completed the GL.

My warmongering strategy involves taking a few cities that all get high culture, meaning even if I lose one later on, (even losing the capital) its still possible to win the UHV. Another advantage of having a strong military early on is the merc system. This lets you make a lot of money to use for research by hiring out war chariots, spears, and axes.

Abegweit
Jan 16, 2007, 09:39 PM
In all strats, the game is lost if you lose any city. That's life. Just the way it is. Building the Light on the Red Sea instead of the Met helps avoid Roman problems, but that's a detail.

Mercenary82
Jan 16, 2007, 10:48 PM
Losing a city does not always mean the game is lost using my strategy, I usually have well over 7000 culture by the time 450 AD roles around, with 1500-1800 culture in Jerusalem, Babylon, Niwt-Rst, and Delhi, meaning I can lose 1 city as long as the first 2 goals are complete, which has happened to me when Persia took Babylon before, and still get the UHV.

Abegweit
Jan 17, 2007, 09:50 AM
I have little experience with this. I have never even had a war, let alone lost a city. But you're obviously right. As I had three cities, each with over 4000 culture, I could certainly have afforded to lose one of them.

Psyringe
Jan 17, 2007, 02:19 PM
Thanks for your comments. :)

Abegweit: I just read your strategy thread, pity that I hadn't seen it before. It's much more refined than my own attempt. I wouldn't have thought it possible to amass 5000+ culture in a single city by turn 143 without using great artists. I'll have to looak at it, currently my guess is that I vastly understimated the power of switching production to culture (a feature that I never used so far).

Mercenary82: You're right that my strategy can't afford losing a city. I didn't think about praets crossing the Meditarrenean; if they do, I wouldn't have anything to counter them. In my game, Rome was occupied with battling Greece ... also, Rome interestingly was the most friendly civ towards me.

I also think that the success of my pacifist strategy depends on the fact that Hammurabi doesn't know what to do with Yerushalayim. If he took it, he'd have a border with me and easy access to my undefended territory, making neglecting my army much more risky.

One thing that I wonder is whether the AI can be taught to pursue such a peaceful builder strategy with Egypt. It might be possible by giving Ramesses a low aggression value, a very high bias for building wonders, and (if that's possible) a very high value for the 3-4 techs he has to beeline to for such a strategy.

Mercenary82
Jan 17, 2007, 06:25 PM
Even with good relations, I still end up with either Greece, Rome, or Persia declaring war in about half my games. Keeping Jerusalem independent is a good idea if you're peaceful, since Babylon is usually at the top of the power graph until they collapse when Arabia spawns.

Enkidu Warrior
Jan 28, 2007, 08:13 AM
I've played through Russia so many times and came so close to winning but never actually managed it. It's never felt impossible - I always feel that I could have done it if I'd been a bit luckier with the other civs.

In my last game for example, all was going great until the congress started meeting. The Turks wanted one of my core cities and I said no, feeling pretty confident in my military position and my relationships with the other major powers. 5 major neigbouring civs declared war on me and I just barely clung on without losing a city. This ruined my relations with everyone and killed any chance I had of getting the 3rd and most difficult part of the UHV - the Apollo programme by 1950. I could no longer trade techs with the other advanced civs and when a later congress came around the Turks repeated their request and all of my new-found enemies declared war again (for a total of 9 civs at war with me - I had no allies).

In previous attempts the difficulty was always avoiding a simultaneous war in Europe and Siberia. This time that was not an issue because China squashed the Mongols then had the good grace to collapse. But the congress system stepped in to foil me yet again.

Has anyone succeeded as the Russians? Did you feel lucky avoiding the many pitfalls that await them or did you have an unbeatable strategy?

Mercenary82
Jan 28, 2007, 09:42 AM
I got the Russian UHV myself a few days ago, my main ally was the Greeks who I decided to help when the Turks spawned. Together we managed to take both the Turks and Germans out so my west borders were safe.

Greece is a very good ally to have as Russia, they always trade techs, and are very bribable to declare war. My main problem was the Mongols who almost took a city in Siberia, but I got Cossacks in time to deal with them.

NitroJay
Feb 24, 2007, 11:13 PM
I wrote a guide for the Persian UHV... Give it a shot, you'll either love it or you'll go insane...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5140407#post5140407

Talkie_Toaster
Mar 21, 2007, 07:41 AM
EXTREME BUMPAGE!!!

hey.

:lol:

kairob
Mar 21, 2007, 02:51 PM
Hey the last post befopre ya was my birthday, and ya did your post on my girlfriends birthday :) wierd....

MAY THE BUMPAGE CONTINUE

wenamon
Apr 06, 2007, 07:45 PM
just a question about my current game,
as rome I allowed my 2 cities in spain to seceed but I didnt want to give up gaul to the nasty french so I rejected the abandonment of the 3 cities. I then saw there troops build up near paris and I promptly sent a 20 praet strong army north from italy. I defeated the french in a few turns and they were wiped out with a score of 0.
however, 2 turns later, france was back and had half my praet army to boot. they are now sittin at the doors to paris and it looks like i might be in some serious trouble? what gives? is this just to give france a good chance at spawning?

next question, I know germany will be spawning in a few turns now... would it be wise for me to declare war on everyoen as rome and then switch to germany when they come online to take advantage of the fresh world war and mop up some cities?

thanks for the help guys

Whitefire
Apr 06, 2007, 10:42 PM
If you want to keep your Roman Empire, you need to kill the civs on the turn they spawn. If cities are allowed to flip, units will "join the resistance" even after you've taken all of the civ's cities.

Lone Wolf
Apr 07, 2007, 01:31 AM
what gives? is this just to give france a good chance at spawning?

It is. :( Live with it or place your 20 Praetorian army BEFORE French spawn 1 tile from Paris. As previous poster said, kill them on the turn they spawn! Sounds really silly, btw... :crazyeye:

fearuin
Apr 07, 2007, 05:27 AM
However, as it happens on any CIV game, if you take all their cities twice, they're out (if they do not collapse earlier). My suggestion: when the frenchies (or any civ you want to avoid spawning) are about to spawn (say, 5 turns before) start steadily moving your units OUT of France. When the french appear, choose NOT to resist and give'em the cities. Then declare war on them, and rampage across the traitor's homes. With all your garrison units, plus some prepared army, you should be allowed to conquer easily your (previous) land. Since they recently flipped, they will have little culture, so they will have no defense and little resistance will appear on the conquered cities, and your garrison units will be ready to keep your cities safe while your army continues the campaign. And to end with, you will earn a lot of maney, plus some techs if you're quick to arrange a peace treaty before they collapse!

Lone Wolf
Apr 07, 2007, 05:57 AM
When the french appear, choose NOT to resist and give'em the cities. Then declare war on them,

No, no, no. Wait 10-15 turns, and then declare war! If you declare earlier, your units will start flipping again, I think...

wenamon
Apr 07, 2007, 11:23 AM
how bout in my game now? I am planning on switching to the germans when they come available. how should I best set that up? I was thinking about just warring on everyone as rome right now and then coming in as germany to wipe up.

Whitefire
Apr 07, 2007, 02:55 PM
However, as it happens on any CIV game, if you take all their cities twice, they're out (if they do not collapse earlier). My suggestion: when the frenchies (or any civ you want to avoid spawning) are about to spawn (say, 5 turns before) start steadily moving your units OUT of France. When the french appear, choose NOT to resist and give'em the cities. Then declare war on them, and rampage across the traitor's homes. With all your garrison units, plus some prepared army, you should be allowed to conquer easily your (previous) land. Since they recently flipped, they will have little culture, so they will have no defense and little resistance will appear on the conquered cities, and your garrison units will be ready to keep your cities safe while your army continues the campaign. And to end with, you will earn a lot of maney, plus some techs if you're quick to arrange a peace treaty before they collapse!

Rhye fixed that exploit. Every city should spawn with defensive units on the flip and France/Germany/Spain/England all recieve extra units if Rome declares war on them. Just like it does if Babylon declares on Persia. You options really are to kill them on the turn the units spawn or wait 5-6 turns before crushing them.

Stargate
Apr 08, 2007, 05:13 AM
i play as China, level medium. version vanila 195
i try to get 3 special winning that Rhye new included.:)
1. First, i build the tech for religion confucian and taoist, success for reaching the tech and get the religion but cannot build complete 2 Confucian Academy and 2 Taoist Pagoda. Only 1 Confucian Academy because needed 8 city with Confucian and Taoist temple where i only got 6 city. not easy...:(
2. Second, i success defending city from barbarian using Phalanx and the Mongol...destroy all city of Mongol. Mongol got elephant ? i win this one. who want to change to Mongol at this time when playing China? :lol:
3. In the middle game, japan had war many times with me but i success push them out of my land by capture 2 city north of China and pillage many times on japan island. India got the Indonesia. japan got some island. :mischief:
4. Third, after that i try to create 120 units to win 3rd special win condition.
i make many Phalanx which easy as some city 1 or 2 turns can finish create it. Sure...i win this but putting down on science and loss alot of gold.;)
5. Then i make the special wonder, finish...but not end game? :confused:
6. i see my China empire losing many gold each turns, so i found out the problem that each units consume upkeep around 3 gold. Grocer, market and even banks can not offset the problem. :cry:
7. after thinking long time, i thinking of "mass killing" of my 100 units. This like the Emperor Chin Shi Huang idea of that time... ironic :king:
afterthat the gold is on positive side and the science on the right track.:D
8. I read many forum that State Property are better than other economy civics than i try to reach the tech and change the civics from Mercantilism. after i found the State Propety is extra gold of 15 but loss i turn in science compare to Mercantilism. no so special about it...In that time 1900AD, i got 13 city which 4 city are not build up yet. try to look the same effect of real China with State propety.:cool:
Conclusion, is a great game where i control north Siberia to Singapore with prenty resources and land just like a superpower in the east:goodjob: Thanks Rhye

fearuin
Apr 08, 2007, 05:50 AM
Rhye fixed that exploit. Every city should spawn with defensive units on the flip and France/Germany/Spain/England all recieve extra units if Rome declares war on them. Just like it does if Babylon declares on Persia. You options really are to kill them on the turn the units spawn or wait 5-6 turns before crushing them.

I didn't notice about that... Then you're right, it's better to attack at once or wait a little longer. In fact, what I did with other civs (not Rome) is to wait until some other civ declares war, so I join the party a few turns later (to give them time to move into my enemy's territory, as well, to have enemy's back unguarded.

kairob
Apr 08, 2007, 03:43 PM
Yeah, almost all the wars I start are either doing that or waiting for a plague...

Edungeon
Apr 08, 2007, 03:49 PM
This happens with America too, if Britain declares war when you get New York a lot of units will spawn on Washington... like 4 Pikeman, 2 Kights, 6 Musketman...

fearuin
Apr 09, 2007, 04:59 AM
This happens with America too, if Britain declares war when you get New York a lot of units will spawn on Washington... like 4 Pikeman, 2 Kights, 6 Musketman...

Pikeman and Knights??? :eek: Aren't they a little outdated?

Edungeon
Apr 09, 2007, 09:16 AM
Yes... but they appear. =p

I use all of them to defend my cities in the West, because they don't have a chance agaist Redcoats.

McA123
Apr 09, 2007, 01:43 PM
5. Then i make the special wonder, finish...but not end game? :confused:

You need to achieve all 3 goals.

fearuin
Apr 10, 2007, 05:16 AM
Yes... but they appear. =p

I use all of them to defend my cities in the West, because they don't have a chance agaist Redcoats.

I usually turn to Hereditary Rule and Slavery on the first turn, and then draft some fusileers, but this was on earlier versions, were the Americans not even had contact (usually) with English, and most times Independence War was against... Spanish. :crazyeye:

wenamon
Apr 10, 2007, 09:07 PM
anyone won with germany? just wondering how you went about it. I am confused right from the start as I dont knwo if I should build berlin where i sit or if i should move it coastal or inland? what about 2nd and 3rd cities"? should I risk an immediate raid on france?

any help would be appreciated.

fearuin
Apr 11, 2007, 03:19 AM
I have never played with Germany to the end, but as long as your questions are related to the beginning of the game, I can give you some advice:
-Cities:
1st: Berlin
2nd: coastal in Denmark, creating a channel (very useful to garrison your ships from England and pirates)
3rd: Budapest (to your SE) or somewhere near it (to get iron and horses)
The next cities will depend a lot on how Russia, Vikings and Greece deploy their cities.
-Offensives: attack France very soon it's a waste, since you haven't any way to defeat their longbowman unless you make an insane quantity of catapults and axeman. Better to wait until you have Engineering, and then send an army composed of bowmen, trebuchets, axemen and pikemen. You can also build a castle in Berlin just to be safer. Another possibility is an early attack of Russia, since they will attack you as soon as they have some knights handy. However, you must choose between them, or you may get trapped in a two fron war. Finally, take good look on Rome and Greece stability. If they collapse, you may expand to their land.

That's all I can help you, hope it's useful.

Edungeon
Apr 11, 2007, 04:32 AM
I play like this: settle Berlin in place, a roman city in south will flip. Then i ussualy settle very east, in a place that has a lot of food resources. The other settler depends on the game.

Wilhelm II
Apr 11, 2007, 12:59 PM
Germany

I play on Warlords, Monarch difficulty, so some things might be different from Vanilla.

First Steps

Cities to found:
-Frankfurt: a must have, this city will be the heart of your empire, surpassing almost every other city in productivity and commerce
-Memel (for the horses) and a semi-productive naval base
-Budapest (iron and quite productive)
-Berlin can be skipped but is quite useful in the beginning (as a settler/worker breeder), you'll later want to max out Frankfurt, Budapest, Memel at the expense of Berlin

Adopt hereditory rule, organized religion, serfdom and vassalage (mainly to have the same civics as your neighbours to facilitate tech trading). Adopt Christianity for the same purpose.

Your first tech(s): Guilds and nothing else. Knights will enable you to crush Russia, and you can trade a lot of useful rechs for guilds like Engineering, and the necessary techs to research Optics. Head to Optics for circumnavigation. Banking is also a vital tech, but you might want to research Gunpowder or Optics first.

Expansion Route
It is vital that Frankfurt is able to use all the good spots of its "Fat X" ASAP. The culture war against Aix is easy: just chop a monument, forge and library in Frankfurt. Mediolanum is more of a problem. Raze or take it, if you can. If there's no culturally strong Mediolanum just look which of your neighbours is the weakest, Greece, Rome (or barbarians/natives/independents in their place) or France. Then use your troops to do as much damage to this nation as you can. With a little luck you can bring Greece or Rome to collapse, you cannot do more harm to France than razing Aix usually. If Rome or Greece declares war, the extra free starting troops are a large help. Until you discover Guilds build up Frankfurt as your new capital, with forge, barracks, staple, monument, library, an amphitheatre, etc. Bring the resources online and start pumping out knights in Frankfurt ASAP. (A knight every 2-3 turns.:D ). In the other cities build artillery or knights in the more productive ones. Once you have 4-5 knights, it's time to take down Russia. Petersburg falls easily like most other cities without walls. You should have a Great General by now, attach it to a knight. Don't forget to sent some medic infantry unit to speed up the healing of your knights. Swiftness is the best way to beat General Winter, therefore knights are the ideal choice to take down Russia as they can move in and attack the city in one turn, minimizing the Winter effect before the attack. Don't loose your veteran knights, sacrifice some trebuchets to soften up the defenders instead. By the time Russia falls the Great Plague strikes and your caravel should have reached the Magellan Strait. Send your veterans out into the most remote parts of Russia, so that their lifes are spared. Given Germany's excellent health bonus (and resources) the Plague will likely only kill your city garrisons but not really damage your cities. Once the Plague ceases it's time to take out Rome, Greece and France, if you are not at war with Turkey right now. Don't allow Turkey to expand into your Russian territory or take Byzantion. With a little luck Plague will weaken Turkey before they can interfere with your take-over of Europe. With your veteran knights and artillery it's doable to take down France, Rome and Greece. Build the ships (galleys or galleons) for the English campaign and take down Spain in the meantime. England is pretty easy after that if you've managed to keep your veterans alive (especially the Great General ones). Only the Vikings left. Another Plague usually strikes around this time, save your vets if you can and then take down the Vikings. Now it's around 1600-1700 AD and you're free to do whatever you want: be happy with your powerful European empire or expand. I'd vote to expand. Take down Mali (they're just an annoyance because they always want to research the goody techs like Liberalism, Physics, Fascism before you) and raze any indepenendent cities in Carthage or Egypt. Take down China, Japan, Mongolia and India. Spread all seven religions in Frankfurt and build all monastries before Scientific Method. Against an advanced Middle East your knights/cavelry should be outdated by now, so send the guys to America to have some fun in this case. Otherwise if the Middle East isn't advanced, take them down one by one. By now we're in the 19th/20th century, Europe, Africa and Asia's in your hands, maybe South America and/or parts of North America, too. Now go for Elimination, Domination, Diplomatic, Space Race or UHV whatever you want, there's noone left to stop you.:D

City Management
Raze useless cities exspecially before you've build up a large empire. The larger your empire the harsher the stability hit for razing a city. Too many cities just drag down your research rate, so try to go with the minimal number possible. But remember that 2 cities each in Britain, France, Italy, Greece, Russia, Scandinavia are required to get the UHV.
Once you've captured a city (you do not need to burn down;)) build a forge, banks, market and grocer there in that order. Then you can build a granery and the science boosters. Finally the happiness and military buildings. Spam cottages and keep a large worker force that quickly develops newly conquered lands and constructs railways, once this technology comes up.

Tech Path - Civics
After you've researched Optics, send a caravel around the globe in order to be the first one to circumnavigate. The +1 movement cames in handy later. Get Banking, if you have not already, and probably gunpowder ASAP. Adopt Mercantilism ASAP. Research Astronomy and then head to Liberalism. Head to democracy,the free bonus tech should help with that. Adopt occupation ASAP. Get economics first, too, and of course also Physics and Fascism for the free Great People.
Democracy is quite useful for your economy and since your wars won't last long, war weariness isn't that much of a problem. Your civics should be universal suffrage, emancipation, free speech, free religion, mercantilism and occupation by now. I usually switch to Environmentalism finally, because I do not want the greatest empire the world has ever seen to be a victim of it's own greed. Winning the world and then destroying it all by yourself is just too idiotic, isn't it.:p
After that head to assembly line, once you have the seven different monastries, head to medicine to keep safe from the plague. Now head to plastics. Being able to supply most of your empire with a single power plant (the Great Dam) is just too sweet isn't it.:D Hydro plants for the rest and your productivity is second to none. Btw the fact that assembly plants are 50% cheaper with coal is very nice too. Head to computers, build laboratories everywhere and savely drive your third UHV goal home: complete the tech tree.

wenamon
Apr 11, 2007, 01:29 PM
thanks for the comprehensive review there wilhelm. will try tonight!

fearuin
Apr 12, 2007, 05:29 AM
Take down China, Japan, Mongolia and India. (...) Otherwise if the Middle East isn't advanced, take them down one by one. By now we're in the 19th/20th century, Europe, Africa and Asia's in your hands, maybe South America and/or parts of North America, too.

Sounds pretty easy ;) . And how many time do you expect to take entire Asia? In the Japan Imperial Challenge we took from 720 AD to 1700 or so. And you expect to do it in... 500 years? A little optimistic, don't you think?

coko
Apr 12, 2007, 07:54 AM
Well, depends on your fleet size, I find with Asia since most of it is by the coast, a fleet following and carrying my advance units can really help jump gate through enemy locations. Also remember that you really only need to take/raize enough to force the enemy into collapse, then they should likely leave you alone to continue your march, and you can come back later to clean up.

Wilhelm II
Apr 12, 2007, 08:24 AM
@coko: Yeah, that's the main trick.

But since I've already typed all of the stuff below, I'll just post it anyway for those intersted.

How hard it is to take down Asia depends on the situation, of course. ;)

Once you have conquered Japan's main island, Japan collapses, no matter how much land and units they have on the continent or elewhere. Since they did not have a foe to battle on their main island they have no vets there, so it's doable with Cavalry and cannons, even if you have to sacrifice some cannons, but Frankfurt, Budapest, Lulea, Rome, Kiew, Moscow should be able to pump out a cannon every 1-4 turns, so it's possible.

I've never seen a strong India, so it's usually pretty easy to take them down.

Mongolia is usually surprisingly advanced in military techs, so it's best to use them as allies in a war against China until you have Infantry.

WARNING CHEESY STRATEGY AHEAD:
You should be the first to discover Industrialism, and until you do, you can amass a huge force of longbowmen (50+ or even 100+ if you need to). Once you discover Industrialism, go for Rifling, and you can upgrade all your longbowmen to Infantry for free thanks to your UP.:D By that time your opponents have Riflemen at best.:D :p :lol: Remember the advanced European civs (and Mali) are already dead, so no discount for widespread techs or AI trading advanced technologies. And I've never seen a very advanced China (ie a China knowing techs of the Industrial era long before me).

If you could not take China until that moment, with Infantry and cannons you should be able to take them down now. Several Chinese cities are coastal or pretty near to the coast like Beijing, so unload a nice stack of Infantry and cannons near each of them via sea. China should fall quickly then.

Mongolia is more of an issue, but hey with all your productivity and technological edge, just take them down with Infantry, panzers or both. I usually have a city in Siberia close to the Mongols, so I attack them from both sides and their cavalry and riflemen have no chance of stopping all the advanced units you can throw at them by that time.

Edungeon
Apr 12, 2007, 10:02 AM
What to do:

Destroy your Iron Mines, and build just Warriors, then upgrade them to Rifleman or Infantary ;)

Wilhelm II
Apr 12, 2007, 11:01 AM
You don't have to be that cheesy, though. ;)
I'd hate to loose (or reduce) my Ironworks bonus in Frankfurt.
Anyway longbowmen are build in 1-2 turns, grenadiers/riflemen in 1-3, Infantry/panzers in 1-4. So building warriors will just help to build up a tremendous shield overflow in all of your cities.
Even without any UP exploits, once you control Europe and have build up your infrastructure, your productivity alone makes sure you can build up a superior army to every other nation.:)

fearuin
Apr 13, 2007, 05:44 AM
Well, depends on your fleet size, I find with Asia since most of it is by the coast, a fleet following and carrying my advance units can really help jump gate through enemy locations. Also remember that you really only need to take/raize enough to force the enemy into collapse, then they should likely leave you alone to continue your march, and you can come back later to clean up.

I have never gave Asia that view, but's completely correct. In fact, some marine-upgraded infantries can make the job quite well.

Whitefire
Apr 13, 2007, 09:31 AM
I have never gave Asia that view, but's completely correct. In fact, some marine-upgraded infantries can make the job quite well.

Don't you read the tips? Never fight a land war in Asia. Or when Whitefire's playing Japan. ;)

fearuin
Apr 14, 2007, 05:59 AM
Don't you read the tips? Never fight a land war in Asia.

That's what I said to you, remember? ;) But now I see that my alternative to conquer America it's quite more difficult. However, you don't need to conquer Asia, just to make everybody indie.

coko
Apr 16, 2007, 04:13 AM
Yeah, and plus considering that AI's general distaste for a large navy you can save yourself a lot of counter attacks on your units after you've taken locations, by jumping them back into the boats and moving on.

The Q-Meister
Apr 26, 2007, 06:07 PM
This is brilliant! Great job Gunner! Very well written! :goodjob:

I figured that the best use of my 1000th post (:dance:) would be to start this thread off :cool:

Here is a mostly completed guide for Russia based on the experiences of my last two games on Emperor level as that country. I figure though that it should only work better for the other levels since they are easier. :p I've also chosen to not give them a strength rating (as was the custom for RoX guides) since I don't feel that I've played enough games yet to accurately assess that value.
Now without further adieu I present:


The Russians
By Gunner

So you want to rule the vast land of Russia – to follow in the footsteps of, and possibly even surpass, the likes of Ivan, Peter, Catherine, and Stalin? It will not be an easy task to guide Russia to greatness, and certainly not one for the weak. The rewards for your diligence and leadership will, however, be considerable. Russia has huge amounts of potential, and it should easy be able to ascend to supremacy if lead correctly.

The first thing you must learn is that the strength of your country lays in its land, the earth it will be built upon and achieve greatness on. It contains abundant resources which will allow your nation to grow, prosper, and eventually turn into an unstoppable war machine. For this reason it is key that you take an aggressive expansion policy early on to insure that the Germans and others do not claim the land that is right fully yours. Send at least two, preferably three, of your starting settlers west to take that land before it is taken by another. You can worry about expanding to the east later, but since you will not have any real competitor for that land it will not need to be with nearly as much urgency.

The only luxury resources available to you will be furs and then later on gems (there are some gems on the coast northwest of Moscow, its a good idea to build a city there just to get them.) To compensate for the relative lack of happiness that your cities will probably be experiencing because of this its a good idea to stay with Hereditary Rule for a while and use large numbers of cheap troops to garrison your big cities and keep them happy. Also don't forget that the market provides +1 happiness with furs and the forge provides +1 happiness with gems.

Another thing to keep in mind in the early game is that you will probably be receiving a visit from a group of barbarian horse archers from the east at some point, so be sure to keep a few troops in that area (preferably spearmen) to defend. You will also throughout the entire game need to be ready to deal with attacks made against you by the AI, especially since the AI in RFC is more aggressive. Obviously the Germans will be a threat due to their inherent aggressivness and their close proximity to your borders. Be vigilant against the threats which are not quite as obvious also, such as the Mongols and the Arabians. In one of my games I had the Arabians attack me with hordes of camel archers, taking 3 cities from me and nearly taking Moscow. Things would have been much easier if I had positioned a few troops on my southern border.

While Russia is blessed with great levels of production and growth, it main weakness lays in its poor capacity for commerce and trade. If you do not adopt the proper measures to counter this then you will find yourself falling behind in the technological race and with empty coffers, regardless of what type of strategy you pursue to victory. To that end, it is essential that you develop your county’s infrastructure with an emphasis on commerce and research. Do this by building cottages frequently and early, as they will be your tool to reach commercial parity with others. You must also focus on building libraries in all of your cities both for the technological benefits as well as the culture they provide. Finally, and most importantly, be very aggressive and active in the game of tech trading.

Tech trading is an important element for any civ in Rhye’s and Fall of Civilization, but for Russia it is absolutely essential. No matter what you do, your country will not be able to compete technologically in the early game if you primarily rely on your own research and engage in only the occasional tech trade. Once you fall out of the technological race it is very difficult to catch up, so it is essential that you make an effort to not fall behind early on. Make it a habit to check your foreign advisor’s technologies screen every turn or two to spot a potential trade. Sell techs for gold to civs that are far behind you, and try to buy, trade, and research techs that some of the top techers do not have. It will be difficult to keep up, but remember that if you have been properly developing your infrastructure (with many cottages and libraries) then things should gradually become easier.

Once your economy is in decent shape then you are presented with 2 main options. The first is to continue peacefully developing your nation. You can also start sending settlers out east to colonize the vast stretches of open land there. Try to build enough courthouses for the Forbidden Palace quickly since you will start paying extravagent maitinence fees once you start expanding. Given time you should come to dominate due to your sheer size.

The other option is to go on the warpath. Russia’s excellent production abilities make it very suited for building and maintaining a large army. You should be able to out produce any opponent you face and win in a war of attrition if necessary. Try and choose a weak country as your first victim, who this will be depends on each game’s situation. The wealth and resources provided by the conquest of another county’s heartland should add to your strength allowing you to take on a tougher opponent next time.

One final thing I would like to mention is Russia’s excellent unique unit, the Cossack. It is substantially more powerful than the default cavalry unit, with 3 extra strength points and a +50% bonus versus other mounted units. If you had already been following a military strategy it should give your efforts a great boost and maybe allow you to take a crack at that other superpower that you had been weary of facing before. If not, then the arrival of the Cossack would mark a great time for you to start some aggressive expansion. It would simply be a shame to waste such a great unit by not conquering someone with it. Additionally, if your game has not turned out as well as you had hoped and you find yourself lagging behind, then the Cossack is the opportunity you need to catch up.

Now go forth and bring Mother Russia to its rightful place of greatness. Its great capacity for production and expansion along with your skillful leadership should allow you to overcome early technological and commercial challenges and carry on to victory.

Gunner
Apr 26, 2007, 06:42 PM
Thanks The Q-Meister. It was quite while ago that that was written, so it doesn't address many of the new features in the mod. But I think its definitely still useful for how to generally go about playing the game as Russia.

The Q-Meister
Apr 26, 2007, 10:21 PM
Greece

Background

The Cradle of Western Civilization. Playing as Greece you inherit a rich history as its very name conjures up images of both great philosophers (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle) as well as fierce warriors (Alexander, Leonidas). Their unique power allows you to grow this legacy even further if you wish to do so. While, if barbarians (and aren't all non-Greeks barbarians?) should approach and threaten a Greek city and demand you surrender your arms to them, then the words of the Spartans at Thermoplyae might be a suitable response: "Come and take them!"

But for now, let us focus on the legacy of Greece as a center of learning and knowledge. Its historical victory calls on you to make the country once again a beacon of philosophy, culture, and knowledge and to allow the Greek spirit and curiosity to re-emerge once more by scanning the oceans and seas of the unknown world around us. While the barbarians growl and bark over this and that piece of land, let the Greeks show that real men do not always win battles by the sword, but also, by the mind.

Winning the Historical Victory

Playing on Monarch level, I founded Athens on the spot. Immediately started to build my 1st wonder (The Colossus) while the warriors stayed put defending the city and the phalanxes eventually did so after searching a bit. In my games as Greece, the Romans declare war almost immediately and will send an army via the sea shortly.

When the barbs, er, Romans came as expected , my Greek forces, remembering their proud legacy, defended the city bravely and despite some pillaging, the army of Alexander was able to repel what was left of the Roman horde. Our great historidan Herodotus was happily willing to write a new history based on these events entitled "The Roman Wars"

I first beelined for Priesthood to be able to build the Oracle. After discovering PH, I immediately switched from the Colossus to Oracle as I suspected that that may be a wonder many civs would be going after and I was especially concerned about the older civs that came before me. Fortunately, Zeus was with us! The Gods looked favourably on us as we showed the world that Athens, the center of the universe, was able to build 3 magnificient wonders: The Oracle, the Colossus and The Parthenon.

After building the 3 wonders, I then thought it best to expand. I settled into Northern Greece to pick up the bronze and then settled Sparta. (Byzantium I settled later on but this might be a better city to build as your 2nd or 3rd option)

I traded with other civilizations while I focused our technology tree on gaining the 3 technologies our citizens were demanding: Philosophy, Drama and Literature. If the player is focused on these techs and trades with other civs for techs appropriately, this should not be a problem to acquire.

Our citizens thirst and curiosity about the world did not end with Philosophy however. Apparently, the access to new fountains of knowledge opened their eyes and their minds to the possibilities of new worlds around us...yet to be discovered. Once again, I set the appropriate tech course, built 6 caravels (just in case...I was being perhaps overly cautious here, but you do want to build more than 1 just in case a country declares war or a freak barbarian attack occurs) and the Greeks once again led the world in yet another field: that of discovery.

In the meantime, while your ships are sailing, it might be a good time to expand some more and build an army..just in case a jealous barbarian tribe should come and try to steal some of your hard-earned and well-deserved glory.

Foreign Policy

On the foreign policy front, war with Rome is inevitable at the beginning. My strategy was withstanding the early attack and make peace afterwards. Always protect your workers! The barbarians can be a nuisance but after playing as Persia, they hardly seem like a major threat. Try to keep your phalanxes for as long as possible, they do come in handy. The Egyptians may declare war but my experience has been that they rarely are serious about it. The Persians are too busy to get anywhere close to Greece and I would recommend trying to be on good terms with them.

When the Euro civs spawn, it is a good idea to be friendly with as many as you can, adopt their religion (probably Christianity) or if there is more than 1, adopt the majority. I find that keeping Russia and Germany happy is of primary importance. Spain may declare war on you cause....well, it's Spain, just defend your water resources and you should be all right. Remember to keep those phalanxes (or upgrade to Pikemen) in case the Conquistadors should show up.

The most important factor is trading techs; as Greece you will undoubtedly acquire techs many other civs do not have yet, trade your techs wisely and accordingly to your goals.



Conclusion

Fortunately, the Greek historical victory is one of the more easier ones in the game. The Greek people come prepared with a natural thirst for knowledge and the large amount of Great People the nation is capable of producing speaks volumes. This is probably a good civ for peaceful players or those attempting to complete their first historical victory. With a couple tries as Greece, the armies of Alexander will defend your land successfully and the legacy of your people will be the envy of the barbarian world! :king:

subanark
Jul 28, 2007, 01:28 AM
Here is a simple guide for getting a Myan historic victory:

Goals:
1. Research Calender by 600AD
2. Build Temple of Kukulakan by 900AD
3. Never lose a city until 1745AD

Situation Overview:
You start with 2 settlers, 3 warriors, a good chunk of gold, and will receive 3 workers 2 turns later. Your power greatly reduces the tech cost until you leave the Middle ages (don't get techs in the Resonance period until you have all the middle age techs you want). You don't have much room to move around in, this does however make defending from land based attacks easier. You will have a good long period of peace to build up your defenses. Around 700(?)AD Barbarians will attack from the North. They will be initially Dog Soldiers (4 power +100% vs melee) but will also add in Jaguar (5 power +10% city attack, starts with woodsman I, can move though jungle). These will usually come in groups of 3. The Incan will arrive at 1150AD in the western side of South America. They are very weak and (at least in my games) ask to be your vassal when they meet you. A weak independent city will form just north of the cotton in south America; the Incan will be just below them. Aztecs will arrive at 1200AD. All units, culture and cities north of the two mountians and stone resource in Central America will be converted to them (make sure you have nothing in their area when that year hits). They will start with a moderate army of Jaguars and some archers along with 2 settlers (and get some workers later). Upon meeting with the Europeans or Africans your cities will fall under plague for a while. You will also receive up to 2 other plagues in this time frame. In the 1500s many European powers will declare war on you and a group of units (2 knights, 3 spearman?, and a catapult) from one of the european powers will appear somewhere in south or central America (this happens even if they don't have astronomy). World congress may also form; if another civ is close to you they may ask congress for one of your cities. America civ is born in 1733, 4 turns before you win.

Strategy:
Found one city where you start, and another west on the stone. Although the northern area looks better, that will be Aztec territory and you will lose that city to them if you found it north of the 2 mountains there. Build up your defenses with archers to fend off the barbs to the north (position your units just outside the workable tiles and build forts there). Just make sure you get calendar by 600AD, and the wonder by 900AD. Once you got those two done you will start a golden age allowing you to change your civics without anarchy (you should have caste system and Bureaucracy by then, and Monarchy by the end of the golden age) and avoid the stability hit. Get Feudalism to build longbow men. By 1200AD you want a sizable army (9 long bow men should be enough) to destroy the Aztec as soon as they appear. Make sure that at 1200AD none of your units are north of those two mountains. When the Aztec arrive all of your culture will be theirs and if you don't destroy, your second city will lose a good chunk of tiles and will have almost no production. Taking the culture back will take a long time, and they will probably declare war on you anyways. When you have time, build a city in the northern part of south America to the right of the gold. Have a ship ready to transport units between the cities since your archers and longbow men can't go though the jungles. Pay Europe a visit once you get the tech. Once you do you will get the plague, but it is better to get it now than when they invade in the 1500s. Keep a good defense when they do invade and ask for peace asap. Go for Musketeers and hold out until 1733.

Worker orders:
Have the workers improve the small amount of terrain they can. When your workers don't have anything left to do create forts at the 3 choke points just north of your second city's workable tiles. When Calendar is done to build a plantation on the dyes by your main city. Do the same for your second city when you get bronze working. After that build at least 1 fort in the jungle south of your main city to allow ships to sail though (the jungle prevents many of your military units from going though). Also build a road into South American to allow settlers and workers to get there faster.

Build orders:
In your main city, build a barracks then 3 archers. After that use your judgment.
In your second city, build a monument, barracks, then archers. Build the Temple of Kukulakan so finishes by 900AD (might as well delay it as long as possible). After that use your judgment.

Research order:
Sailing (trade with your other city), Archery (archers), Math (pre-req), Calendar (plantation, goal), Code of laws (Wonder goal), Bronze Working (chopping), Civil Service (Bureaucracy), Monarchy (pre-req), Feudalism (Longbow men), ...

LeeT911
Aug 10, 2007, 09:03 AM
I managed to complete the UHV for Egypt on my second try. I found it pretty simple actually. There are some good pointers in this thread already, but if some people are having trouble reaching the culture goals, my trick is to use caste system.

Get the stone hooked up early, and prioritize getting the Stonehenge, which gives access to all labour civics. In my game (on Monarch), I built it before the Pyramids, but it wasn't really necessary that early. If you're missing a few culture points for 500, switch to caste system a few turns in advance and run an artist. On my attempt, I was going to be 3 culture points short of the first goal! Good thing I had the Stonehenge.

Once you pass the first culture goal, let your capital grow and run a couple more artists so that you can pop a Great Artist, thereby guaranteeing you the second goal. Once I got the Great Artist, I went back to slavery so I could whip the remaining wonders and some spears/axes to stem the tide of Camel Archers and Impis coming from the west.

Greeneyedzombie
Aug 15, 2007, 02:44 PM
For those playing with the greeks, how oftend does it happen that the oracle has been build when you start?
I started several times with the greeks, but when I start the indians have already build it. It seems to be impossible to win with the greeks.

fearuin
Aug 16, 2007, 03:52 AM
I haven't played with the greeks on BtS, but in the earlier versions it happened me only twice, and both of the it had been built by egyptians. However, I can imagine that indians have a chance to do it.

On that earlier versions, greek UHV was for long the easiest, but maybe Rhye has tighten things a bit.

As long as I know, with greeks it's very important to time when and where to build wonders. A rush on turkey early on it's really helpful. Have you tried that? Greek UHV leads to a builder strategy, so an early focus on war may seem to be counterintuitive, but at least to me it has been very helpful. Even if you don't win by UHV, you may have a chance with a culture victory (or even religious, in BtS, haven't tried this one). Your only threats are arabian and turks, but for the time these ones spawn, you may be holding an empire that ranges from Yugoslavia to Persia, so even if you give the cities they ask, it won't be a great loss.

LeeT911
Aug 16, 2007, 08:58 AM
I tried a few times for the Greek UHV before I got it, and it never happened that the Oracle was already built. However, I did have to beeline Masonry and Priesthood so I could get the Marble hooked up and start the Oracle early.

Greeneyedzombie
Aug 16, 2007, 04:04 PM
I haven't played with the greeks on BtS, but in the earlier versions it happened me only twice, and both of the it had been built by egyptians. However, I can imagine that indians have a chance to do it.

On that earlier versions, greek UHV was for long the easiest, but maybe Rhye has tighten things a bit.

As long as I know, with greeks it's very important to time when and where to build wonders. A rush on turkey early on it's really helpful. Have you tried that? Greek UHV leads to a builder strategy, so an early focus on war may seem to be counterintuitive, but at least to me it has been very helpful. Even if you don't win by UHV, you may have a chance with a culture victory (or even religious, in BtS, haven't tried this one). Your only threats are arabian and turks, but for the time these ones spawn, you may be holding an empire that ranges from Yugoslavia to Persia, so even if you give the cities they ask, it won't be a great loss.

Currently going for a cultural victory. Conquered rome. Mercanaries rock.:lol: And the celts took the rest.
Idia already build the oracle again.:mad: But with al these GA I'm getting, I think it is to easy.

fearuin
Aug 17, 2007, 05:18 AM
Getting Rome is a hit if you go for culture, specially if Caesar has founded Christianity (what happens from time to time). Another hit is to get Jerusalem, but if you do this, you'll put your feet on war to never give it up (because Egyptians, Babilonian, Persian and Arabian want Jerusalem for them).

Greeneyedzombie
Aug 17, 2007, 04:40 PM
Getting Rome is a hit if you go for culture, specially if Caesar has founded Christianity (what happens from time to time). Another hit is to get Jerusalem, but if you do this, you'll put your feet on war to never give it up (because Egyptians, Babilonian, Persian and Arabian want Jerusalem for them).

What you mean is a hit?
Rome didn't found anything. The romans are dead. They suicided on my phalanxes fortified on hills.. I build a galey and hired some mercenarys and landed in rome. The suicided some more units to try to get it back. And those lovely celts did the rest. I have rome, byzantium and the other city the romans founded between rome and athens. Build the great wall and got allmost all of the ancient wonders. I have jewish religion and founded the christian.

fearuin
Aug 18, 2007, 05:50 AM
What you mean is a hit?


I mean that it's a important achievement. Rome usually builds all her wonders in her capital, so it's a good spot to get for a culture victory.

I have jewish religion and founded the christian.
Probably, if you didn't attack Rome, Caesar would have goaled to found Christianity. Having Rome as christian holy city makes things a lot easier (because it has a HUGE spreading rate).

NickSD
Aug 18, 2007, 08:13 AM
Here is a simple guide for getting a Myan historic victory:

Goals:
1. Research Calender by 600AD
2. Build Temple of Kukulakan by 900AD
3. Never lose a city until 1745AD

Situation Overview:
You start with 2 settlers, 3 warriors, a good chunk of gold, and will receive 3 workers 2 turns later. Your power greatly reduces the tech cost until you leave the Middle ages (don't get techs in the Resonance period until you have all the middle age techs you want). You don't have much room to move around in, this does however make defending from land based attacks easier. You will have a good long period of peace to build up your defenses. Around 700(?)AD Barbarians will attack from the North. They will be initially Dog Soldiers (4 power +100% vs melee) but will also add in Jaguar (5 power +10% city attack, starts with woodsman I, can move though jungle). These will usually come in groups of 3. The Incan will arrive at 1150AD in the western side of South America. They are very weak and (at least in my games) ask to be your vassal when they meet you. A weak independent city will form just north of the cotton in south America; the Incan will be just below them. Aztecs will arrive at 1200AD. All units, culture and cities north of the two mountians and stone resource in Central America will be converted to them (make sure you have nothing in their area when that year hits). They will start with a moderate army of Jaguars and some archers along with 2 settlers (and get some workers later). Upon meeting with the Europeans or Africans your cities will fall under plague for a while. You will also receive up to 2 other plagues in this time frame. In the 1500s many European powers will declare war on you and a group of units (2 knights, 3 spearman?, and a catapult) from one of the european powers will appear somewhere in south or central America (this happens even if they don't have astronomy). World congress may also form; if another civ is close to you they may ask congress for one of your cities. America civ is born in 1733, 4 turns before you win.

Strategy:
Found one city where you start, and another west on the stone. Although the northern area looks better, that will be Aztec territory and you will lose that city to them if you found it north of the 2 mountains there. Build up your defenses with archers to fend off the barbs to the north (position your units just outside the workable tiles and build forts there). Just make sure you get calendar by 600AD, and the wonder by 900AD. Once you got those two done you will start a golden age allowing you to change your civics without anarchy (you should have caste system and Bureaucracy by then, and Monarchy by the end of the golden age) and avoid the stability hit. Get Feudalism to build longbow men. By 1200AD you want a sizable army (9 long bow men should be enough) to destroy the Aztec as soon as they appear. Make sure that at 1200AD none of your units are north of those two mountains. When the Aztec arrive all of your culture will be theirs and if you don't destroy, your second city will lose a good chunk of tiles and will have almost no production. Taking the culture back will take a long time, and they will probably declare war on you anyways. When you have time, build a city in the northern part of south America to the right of the gold. Have a ship ready to transport units between the cities since your archers and longbow men can't go though the jungles. Pay Europe a visit once you get the tech. Once you do you will get the plague, but it is better to get it now than when they invade in the 1500s. Keep a good defense when they do invade and ask for peace asap. Go for Musketeers and hold out until 1733.

Worker orders:
Have the workers improve the small amount of terrain they can. When your workers don't have anything left to do create forts at the 3 choke points just north of your second city's workable tiles. When Calendar is done to build a plantation on the dyes by your main city. Do the same for your second city when you get bronze working. After that build at least 1 fort in the jungle south of your main city to allow ships to sail though (the jungle prevents many of your military units from going though). Also build a road into South American to allow settlers and workers to get there faster.

Build orders:
In your main city, build a barracks then 3 archers. After that use your judgment.
In your second city, build a monument, barracks, then archers. Build the Temple of Kukulakan so finishes by 900AD (might as well delay it as long as possible). After that use your judgment.

Research order:
Sailing (trade with your other city), Archery (archers), Math (pre-req), Calendar (plantation, goal), Code of laws (Wonder goal), Bronze Working (chopping), Civil Service (Bureaucracy), Monarchy (pre-req), Feudalism (Longbow men), ...



Subanark, this was excellent! :goodjob:
thanks to you, I just earned my first-ever BTS historical victory! YAY! :D

can you paste this into the wiki or should I?

Mxzs
Aug 19, 2007, 05:56 AM
I managed to complete the UHV for Egypt on my second try. I found it pretty simple actually. There are some good pointers in this thread already, but if some people are having trouble reaching the culture goals, my trick is to use caste system.

Get the stone hooked up early, and prioritize getting the Stonehenge, which gives access to all labour civics. In my game (on Monarch), I built it before the Pyramids, but it wasn't really necessary that early. If you're missing a few culture points for 500, switch to caste system a few turns in advance and run an artist. On my attempt, I was going to be 3 culture points short of the first goal! Good thing I had the Stonehenge.

Once you pass the first culture goal, let your capital grow and run a couple more artists so that you can pop a Great Artist, thereby guaranteeing you the second goal. Once I got the Great Artist, I went back to slavery so I could whip the remaining wonders and some spears/axes to stem the tide of Camel Archers and Impis coming from the west.

Thanks for the tip about Caste System. It helped me finally win a UHV on Monarch level.

And just in time, too, because just a few turns later (I can't resist hitting the "one ... more ... turn" button at the end) a plague wiped out all my units as dozens of Barbarians and Impis simultaneously swarmed in from the south and west. I've never seen a civilization sink so quickly as my Egyptian empire did under that one-two punch.

Corm
Aug 19, 2007, 07:59 AM
Khmer UHV taken from the Khmer thread. There is another strategy I used in that thread too but its not as successful as this one which gets you a higher finishing score.

Ok 2nd Spoiler. A different path. Tried this one 3 times now and although I never took 2 of those goes to the 30% spread required it was definitely going to be doable. Anyway see below if your interested.

Research Path: Aesthetics, Sailing, Calender, Philosophy, Alphabet, Currency, Exploration, Optics, anything you like after that.

Initial moves: Found Angkor, found Hanoi, Move Ballista Elephants to take Pagan then Patna (Religious capital).

Build order: Forge in Hanoi and Angkor then Baray then Hanoi buidls Shawadaya Paya and Angkor builds library then eventually Wat Prishnouk. Pagan builds Baray then Harbour then granary. Patna builds baray then granary then courthouse. After these build options you have free reign in all cities.

Workers: Improve whatever you can bringing all food and health resources on line as soon as you research calender.

Great People strategy: Make 1 Artist specialist in Angkor when it hits pop 3, 2 when it hits pop 4 and the Bananas are online. Hanoi should have 1 Artists Specialist then 2 when Angkor is close to half way to popping the 2nd Great Artist it should be moved up to 2 specialists. When Angkor has created 2 GA's Hanoi should have finished the Paya and can be used to pop the 3 GA whilst Angkor completes the Wat Prishnouk.

Civics: Hed Rule, Casts System and Organised Religion.

Points to consider: War with indpendants shouldn't be started until you can capture at least two workers building roads above Hanoi (turn 3 or 4) so that you have extra workers that are essential to getting all the Calender based improvements online to hit your pop 10 goals. Patna should max food, Pagan will require mirco management to hit pop 10 by 1430. Mines should always be built in Jungle hills, Windmills on clear hills except the hill to the south east of Angkor which should have a mine and the copper above Hanoi (obviously).

After you have hit goals 1 & 2 you should concentrate on spreading your religion via caravels with missionaries. First target should be Aztecs and Incas. If you get conquerors gift the units or use them in a friendly manner to support your new pals the Aztecs and Incas. Dont take cities from them its not worth it. Spread your religion to them as fast as possible then concentrate on other friendly Civs colonies. Feel free to switch civics to slavery after hitting goals 1 & 2 and be sure to use the whip to get your heavily growing cities tooled up.

Ryry
Aug 22, 2007, 06:16 PM
If you are new to Rhye's (which I am), I think Japan is a good UHV to try first. You don't have to watch your back, as their are no Barbarians to worry about (you start on a small island), and no Civs will threaten the homeland for quite a while (again, island!), and if you can get the first UHV condition met you are pretty much sure to get the next two.

You need to be the most powerful Civ in 1500, if you can swing that you will surely meet #2, no foreign culture on the main island by 1700 with out trying. The last one can be a little tricky cause it takes so long to get to, and you might have over extended back trying to meet the first goal: never lose a city by 1850.

NOTE: I lost cities to instability (they became independent), but no other Civ conquered them, and I still got the UHV. (I lost 2 cities. One I recaptured before 1850, one I did not and it was still independent in 1850). I assume that it does not count as a loss as long as they are not taken by another civ.

OK. So the main thing is to be the most powerful Civ in 1500. How to do that? Well, conquer the other most powerful civ from way back then: China.

Basically you need to follow these strategies:
1) Expand on the Asian mainland by conquering China
2) Build up the home islands (really just one island on this map)
3) Prepare for the Mongols to spawn, and be ready to defend against them

The most urgent is #1. You can do #2 as you have time, it is not a priority beyond the first two cities. Place your first city where the settler spawns and the other as you choose, but I prefer on the east coast just above the rice. Later you can place a city in the north on or around the silver and then another in the far north, which is the island of Hokkaido, but is not a seperate island on this map. You can place a 5th on the gold in the south, or where I prefer is the little island (which I guess is Okinawa) just south of the gold.

But again, the main point is China! You need a city on the Korean peninsula. You can either establish one (which I do) or wait for Seoul to spawn and take it over one way or another. Sooner or later China will get the Plague. Hope they get it worse than you and that it causes some of their cities to go independent. Then you can pick off these cities when the plague ends. Depending on your military situation you will probably only be able to capture one or two cities. But that is fine. You can wait to attack China directly if you are weak, just prepare. Probably China will collapse around 800-950 AD, or you can spur it on around 900 assuming you have enough forces.

Now this whole time you are of course racing your tech to get Samurai (Code of Laws). I usually do not have Samurai by the time I start marching through China, but you need to get them to hold China. After that your goals should be Engineering (pikeman to defend against Mongolia) and Gunpowder.

Be careful! You need to be most powerful by 1500, but you also need to never lose a city. When you start getting down south near the Khmer and Indians you need to ask yourself if you will be able to defend the cities you are taking. Going too far past Hanoi, for example, could be asking for trouble. (Though hopefully India will later collapse, the Khmer will probably hang around as a threat.) If you go south past Hanoi, plan to completely wipe them out, but then you gotta hold all those cities till 1850! NOTE: Catapults cannot go through the Jungles even with roads, be prepared for that.

Another note: I take Bejing but leave the other Chinese city up north alone (north of Bejing, A-something). Let the mongols have it. The mongols will spawn around 1000 and start attacking up north; the less cities you have up there, the better. If you take it, the citizens will keep asking to join Mongolia, and you have to say no, and then mongolia will attack there and Bejing.

Final note: It is a long way from Hanoi to Bejing, and you will need to get units back up there sooner or later to deal with the mongols. So keep that in the back of your head as well.

Once you take over China you'll need a while to stabilize the economy, just keep racing for pikemen and gunpower as best you can. If the Khmer are still around in the south expect them to attack sooner or later, probably in conjunction with with Mongols. The Khmer are pretty weak though, especially if you took a few of their cities.

You may end up in a race between India for most powerful in 1500 (or Arabia), it will probably be tight. Just take as many Chinese cities as you feel safe holding (go into Tibet!), try to get some wonders out, and keep that Tech as high as you can, with extra scientists where you can spare them.

If you can get that first UHV condition met, you are probably set. Keeping culture out of the main islands is pretty much automatic, so you are just waiting for 1700 and a free Golden Age (which you get when you reach 2/3 conditions).

Your two biggest problems after 1500 are:
1) Economy (keeping the tech up around 50%+ can be hard)
2) Mongolian invasion

The Mongols will come for you sooner or later. They have 10HP Keshiks. You have 8HP Samurai. The good news is you just need to DEFEND! Pikemen with upgrades and Samurai with the "Mounted Units" promotion will be adequate if they are fortified in cities, but be careful on the open plains where you can get hit by multiple Keshiks from out of nowhere.

Plus the Mongolians are rushing for Gunpowder as well, and Cannons plus Keshiks are lethal, unless you have cannons and some musketmen. Once you get gunpowder cannons are a good bet because one or two of them can basically shut down a Mongolian advance. And again, you just need to hold on . Sooner or later Mongolia will be at war with one or two other Civs, and if you have enough defenders you may be able to go on the offensive. But you just need to hold what you have, so I suggest trying to make peace with Mongolia as soon as they will accept without cost, rather than taking over more cities which you will then be obligated to hold.

The Europeans will start to over take you, and colonize around South Asia around 1700 or so, but they should not be a threat to you before 1850, especially if you have gunpowder. But making a run for Military techs is still good insurance. But if you can hold off the Mongols, you should be OK.

Final note, you can get a good military city from either the 1st or 2nd city on the main island by completing the Maori Statues wonder, this wonder will help a lot! Combine with a military academy, barracks etc... and you will be able to create units with 2-3 promotions in 1 or 2 turns by the time you are at war with Mongolia. Helpful!

***

Now just a comment: I like this scenario a lot, and it is very fun (which is really the point), but I have only one little complaint: basically there is no threat of Mongolian invasion of the Japanese home islands. I've never seen the Mongols get a city next to the ocean. If I remember my history the Mongols attempted to invade around 1300 but were driven back by strong winds (divine wind = kamikazie), which broke up their fleet. They then got pre-occupied with other things, and finally just gave up on invading Japan, which probably would have easily fallen. I don't think you can accurately portray this on this map, but you could do something similar by letting the Mongols spawn a city north of the Korean peninsula with an army of say 2 galleys and various troops. But then again, maybe that is a dumb idea.

Ryry

LukeUeda-Sarson
Aug 23, 2007, 09:52 AM
My strategy as Japan was very different - why muck around in China when you can colonize Australia and the Philippines? This will make you the highest scoring civ in 1500 without having to fight anybody...

Cheers, Luke

fearuin
Aug 23, 2007, 10:39 AM
The reason is: it will kill your economy... unless you go without SR all the way around, so you can become a trading king! However, that will make harder to achieve the second goal, but a few wonders may fix the problem.

LukeUeda-Sarson
Aug 23, 2007, 05:38 PM
If you fight no wars, obviously you become a trading king, you have nothing else you need to do! Given all those coastal tiles, it's not hard to do. Build the Colossus early on, and reap the rewards - you get copper very early so it should be easy.

Of course peaceful games aren't to everyone's cup of tea, but if not, why are you playing a pre-Industrial Japan?

Cheers, Luke

fearuin
Aug 24, 2007, 05:39 AM
Yes, Colossus is of great help, as well as Artemisa's temple. Another important thing: consider very well where to settle. Japan's strategy is always about huge cities, and with all that resources in Indonesia, it's temting to settle in just every inch of land you find... but beware! you should settle only where land resources are available, and be confident on your culture to catch sea ones.

coko
Aug 24, 2007, 05:50 AM
One of the largest cities possible to make in Japan is Toyko, but that takes up most of the resources in the centre, however it gives you a pretty powerful powerhouse. NE of farm if I remember on the grassland. Maybe settling E of the farm would help as your most northern city could get the silver for production.

I generally only have 3 cities on the japanese mainland, (I settle SW of the start location on the hill for culture attacking). And then I take australia with a few settlers. I tend to keep away from mainland asia because that gets me into a huge war and hits my stability.

Ryry
Aug 24, 2007, 04:23 PM
I am going to try that peaceful approach this weekend. I guess I am prejudiced from playing regular CIV4, in which, if you are Japan, you have to do something about China sooner or later. IMHO

But I can see in RFC how China is not as much of a potential threat. Also I noticed that the Mongols don't seem to settle the area North of Korea that much (compared to CIV4).

Still, I am skeptical. I just don't think it is possible to get the first objective peacefully.... but I'll try

Ryry

fearuin
Aug 25, 2007, 05:20 AM
Good luck, and give us feedback! :) (Somewhere in the future I'll try again my failed attemp of achieving a domination victory with Japan, and all info about Japan will be of great help).

Heav
Aug 25, 2007, 07:17 AM
I am going to try that peaceful approach this weekend. I guess I am prejudiced from playing regular CIV4, in which, if you are Japan, you have to do something about China sooner or later. IMHO

But I can see in RFC how China is not as much of a potential threat. Also I noticed that the Mongols don't seem to settle the area North of Korea that much (compared to CIV4).

Still, I am skeptical. I just don't think it is possible to get the first objective peacefully.... but I'll try

Ryry

I have already done it peacefully(monarch), it is easy, Japan is tech powerhouse, so focus on points from techs, eventually some wonders(I had 2), building Apostolic Palace helps bit with production;) .

Here is my 1505 AD save, to see how I have done it. Then it was just siting to wait until 1850 AD:) .

Hitti-Litti
Aug 25, 2007, 11:21 AM
Does anyone have a good strategy of winning Ottomans as Arabs? In my game I lost a city to them in war because of the damn cannons and trebuchets. Though I burned their capital, that sweetened the deal a bit.

coko
Aug 25, 2007, 11:59 AM
Hitti, the best tactic is to really just ignore them, they are needed as part of your attacking goals.

My advice is to never in settle that part of the middle east, go as far north as Babylon and As-hur (sur) and stop there. Then head into egypt and cathage before finally galley'ing across to spain.

Do not give them as-hur, but move all your defenders out of it, and hold in babylon and the city south of as-hur, moving them north only to defend it from attack. Generally if persia is still alive (if you did 3000bc unlocked! which in my opinion is the better option for playing the UHV) they will also go to war with turkey, and soak up a lot of the damage (very useful to only take babylon and leave rest to them, your culture will hold them back enough to give you good tiles but still have some left for war with turkey.

By doing this you force turkey into a small corridor, and generally they'll waste troops in attack against you and persia (get gunpowder from word go, and musketmen will defend you easily!) and if you are lucky, ask for vassalage then you can spread islam and have a buffer against Europe.

Hitti-Litti
Aug 25, 2007, 12:57 PM
Well, Persia didn't exist, and I didn't settle farther than Najaf. They didn't immediately declare war, they first settled down for couple of turns and then rushed with cannons and trebuchets.

fearuin
Aug 26, 2007, 05:39 AM
I have to add to coko's ideas that if they have cannons already, try to get those cavalries ASAP (+50% :strength: against cannons, remember? And enough strengh to beat some trebuchets). Once you got some cavalries, start to raid their lands, as soon as they declare war. That will distract them until you have enough army to mount a decent attack. One you conquer a city, give it back to them, asking for peace. This is usually enough. Another clue is try to be friend of the Greeks. They're usually willing to kick some turkey ass, specially if Turkeys got Constantinople from them. If you're lucky enough to spread Islam into greece, cooperate with them is usually a win-win situation.

coko
Aug 26, 2007, 11:49 AM
Hitti, try playing the unlocked version and starting in 3000bc, I find otherwise the Arabian UHV is soo difficult!

NickSD
Aug 27, 2007, 03:48 AM
I suck as Mongolia. I can't seem to crank out enough military units.

Please help!

coko
Aug 27, 2007, 06:25 AM
It is a very hard one to crack. I'll look into it later, however I find to tackle the Chinese you'd likely need siege equipment, as the horses while strong, will just die too much! And you need them for over taking locations with ease. So slave whipping lots of siege weapons could be the way.

The raze cities is fine, you can finish that whenever, but is it the world population? Well take good cities raze the rest. I'd not advise going through india because siege doesn't go through jungle...

Turkey/Persia/Russia will have good populations, might be best to worker roads all the way to their borders and rush them that way...Russia will be hard if you let them get to curr's.

Hitti-Litti
Aug 27, 2007, 08:44 AM
coko@ Didn't go for UHV, just wanted tips to survive against Ottomans.


Few tips for surviving as Ethiopia:

1) Arabia: Your friend. Convert to Islam if possible. If it isn't, then don't turn to any religion, because then you would be easy prey for them. Just try to be friends with them by being generous in trades.

2) Egypt: Must be destroyed. Try to strive against Egypt before Arabia pops up. It's pretty easy, even good relations with them aren't a bad thing yet. When Arabia rises, wait when they declare war to Egypt. Soon they will ask you to join them, and agree to do it, even if you don't have yet your stack of death. You can raze other cities(I razed all others), but just don't raze Niwt-rst, even if other Egyptian cities have an overwhelming culture. It shall be your most important city later. I used only horse archers and catapults, they were all I needed as Egypt wasn't advanced.

3) European nations + Ottomans: Try to stay cautious or pleased, they are important tech trade partners. If all Europe is Christian(in my save it was split in Jews, Moslems and Christians), take free religion or no religion. You need 3-4 + Arabia as reliable trade partners to keep up in tech race, it's not always easy. Portugal and Netherlands are useful trade companions, as they give open borders easily.

4) Asian nations: Get all techs they have but you don't if possible, usually Khmer doesn't have any(in my game Japan is really advanced, even ahead Europeans). Khmer and India(in some cases China too) can be used to get you money by selling cheap techs and maps to get much money.

5) Natives: Impis are really annoying when battling against Egypt. Just get enough axemen to fight them off. My biggest problem was their speed and pillaging, but I got rid of it by building more units and placing them on strategic positions. 2 axemen and an archer are enough early on. City of Gondokoro is a great place to have a city, it blocks some of the Impi attacks and forces them either north or west. Moqdisho is a bad place for a city in this case, they can pillage too easily then.

6) Barbarians: Camel archers are your biggest threat until you get some pikemen and war elephants on the battlefield. You just need to overpower them and possibly leave them an another target, like an independent city.

Someone else could do this better than me, my first game as Ethiopia after all, but I've managed it surprisingly well IMO.

coko
Aug 27, 2007, 12:51 PM
Presently I am still unable to even get close to their UHV, I think the only hope is some amazing luck in attacking egypt, pumping out prophets and popping islam before Arabia arrive.

Towards fighting impi's, archers are a better option than axemen sometimes because impi's won't get a bonus fighting them, longbowmen even better! I like to send my second settler two the east coast, 2 places south of the incense, then I can get to the horses and incense and it isn't too low on population.

Eygpt is your main task in destroying as Hitti said, from my experience they use a mix of axemen and chariots, so you'll need good counters. Again good idea letting arabia declare war and helping them. However have you considered an invasion of parts of arabia? I find Ur...is always jewish centre, and sometimes christian holy land, taking it gives a huge pot of gold, and with arabia subdued (take makkah) they will collapse and you can ignore their less productive locations. With Ur owned and independents covering your eastern coast mainly, you can have limited defences there and concentrate on keeping the barbs and natives from destroying your old lands.

To this aim, I prefer two archers and a spearmen/pikemen as this will handle any attacks. Generally they don't destroy most of your improvements, but they love your workers and those are important!

Towards actually dealing with arabia, I try getting them once I'm steady in egypt, with two cities there and two at home I can produce a good sized army, mainly of swordsmen/macemen and spearmen/pikemen and as many catapults as possible(2 to 1 is good really, with that you will find yourself wasting the catapults in attack but can just produce them back home and not worry about replacing other troops!)

Then go back to africa and move south, take those lovely areas in the south from the natives, either by using a few galley's to take siege or rushing men in. With that sorted you'll be high in score, but your tech will be suffering. However I find you can now convert to christainity, you'll see your money rise up with Ur's growth, and you can slowly make egypt a production centre. Turn south africa into money zone as well and you'll be happily catching up!

Hitti-Litti
Aug 27, 2007, 02:17 PM
Well, basically I didn't attack to Arabia because I couldn't afford a big enough army, and couldn't build enough units fast enough to kill those longbowmen in Arabia.

coko
Aug 27, 2007, 02:40 PM
True, it can be a problem, your main city (generally starting point) is good for production once it is up and running but can't be whipped, however egypt generally can be whipped, and once you've got a position in Ur you can slow down and build up slowly. I do find the AI really doesn't handle counter attacks very well, very piecemeal, easy to defeat.

Corm
Aug 29, 2007, 04:36 AM
I havent completed Ethiopias UHV, yet, but I will, probably tonight but maybe I wont have time, I dunno. Eitherway I have managed to found Christianity on two occasions now. The very first time is explained at the start of the Ethiopia UHV thread and the most recent occasion (last night) is on page 6.

I remembered to upload a save of it this time so that people can verify I done it and maybe play on from there. Anyway the link can be found here...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232473&page=6

Third post down.

If I complete the Ethiopian UHV I will try again a few times and post some more hints if they are viable. Having said that I *think* I have already tried just about everything and that just about everything has been discussed already.

As far as I can tell if Jerusalem is Independant on turn 122/123 restart because you wont be founding Christianity (It pops up around 123/124). If it isnt founded before turn 135, restart, because you wont be founding it that way either and founding Islam as Ethiopia is just pants. Big stinky fat mans pants.

By my calculations the fastest you can research Theology to found Christianity is by turn 132. I may be wrong on that by 1 or 2 turns eitherway but as far as I can tell thats the fastest you can get it. I got it on turn 135. As a test I reloaded my save two turns before and on turn 135 switched to another tech. Someone else founded Christianity the turn after.

Total_War
Sep 17, 2007, 04:21 PM
Does anyone have any tips for playing as Germany? I'm struggling really badly. The Roman Empire is often so big that all the good city spots (Frankfurt, Austrian cities etc) are taken. I did try to mass product catapults and maceman to try and defeat Rome, but very quickly realised that it just isn't going to work. I normally found Berlin, Memel and another city beginning with 'L' (forgotten the name, but its used to get Iron). I've normally get quite disheartened very easily as I toil between whether going for Astronomy (to found cities on other continents) or being the first to get something like Rifling first. Add to add, in the last couple of games, the Roman Empire has developed an annoying habit of delcaring war with me on the 3rd turn, which puts me completely off. What civilizations should I aim to conquer first? What technologies should I try and get first? Am I founding the right cities?

Any help would be very greatly apprechiated. I've played plenty of games of RFC, but have not actually won one (mainly because I don't ever try for UHV, and because I'm a really, really terrible civilization player).

fearuin
Sep 18, 2007, 06:05 AM
Well, it's been a while since I play Germany, but my first victory in RFC was with them! I had several good games with them, though I've never been able to get their UHV.

The key to play Germany is to be agressive, but in a selective way. Getting those austrian cities is a high priority (didn't they flip to you?). If Rome declares war early on you probably is because Caesar may be given the choice of let them flip, or fight. The thing you should do is attack, lefting a reasonable amount of macemen and longbowmen at home (say 2-3). Don't worry too much if they carry a huge stack of troops: many of them will flip to you.

To make a good attack you can't just build maceman and catapults. You need a couple of defenders (bows), and you will like to send also some horse archers to Italy, and pillage around. They will probably die, but it will Caesar busy while your army approaches.

Also, keep an eye on your neighbours. If you convert to Christianism early on, you may have the chance to ask Isabella and Alexander (if it's alive!) to help you. Isabella will like to go for Caesar's cities in north Africa, and Alex may help you in Austria, or north Africa, as well. Ask them to attack Carthage, for example, once they declared war by going into the option 'Let's talk about other things..'. By default, Isabella and Alex will send their navy to terrorize the Italian coast, and if they reach to dissembark on Africa, Caesar may even not send you a single soldier. He won't care about some cities in the borders if thier coast is under attack.

Once you conquer a couple of roman cities under your spawning area, and the 10 compulsory turns of uncommunication have passed, ask for peace.

Rome will have trouble with stability at this point, and it may collapse if your friends are able to conquer one or two more cities.

From here, you have many ways to follow. 70% of the time, I attack the frenchies, just because 90% they will do it if you go to war with another neighbour. Don't care too much on expanding overseas. Think what Bismarck said to his Foreign Minister when he asked about sending settlers to Africa: 'Africa? My colonies are Poland, and Denmark. I can't think on wasting my resources on expeditions, while Russia and France are putting a dagger in my back'. After giving a strike, if not a killing blow to France, I usually go after Russia (or Vikings, time to time), to get Poland and the Balkans. If greeks collapse, I'll consider expansion to the mediterraneum before Ottomans take that land. At this point, you'll have a big empire that helds most of central and maybe eastern Europe. Then you can concentrate on research if you go for a tech race or the UHV (in this case you will need further wars, where I usually I lose the control on the situation).
Thinking in overseas expansion is a bad idea, I think: where will you go? Soth America? You'll engage in problems with Spanish and French. Australia or India? Hmm... England's powerful army can give you a great headache. Africa? Not the south, apply the same for India. North Africa may be an option, specially if you were able to take the balkans and get a coastal city in the mediterraneum. Arabia or Egypt (in the strange case that they have survived) isn't a huge enemy after medieval time, as long as they usually fall behind in tech. Beware of their relation with the ottomans!

I guess this most of the advice I can give you. Luck with the Germans, they are one of my favourite civs to play RFC!

Total_War
Sep 18, 2007, 11:04 AM
Thank you very much for the advice. Germany is my favourite civ to play in RFC, and once I finally win a game with them, I'll move on and try to win with other civs.

Normally, it's not that Rome has the city locations in Austria, it's that their borders expand through the city spots, so I can't found cities in Austria. The greeks almost always collapse within about 5 turns of founding, so I'll try and grab that land. When Rome is defeated, my plan would be to destroy France, and then Russia.

Squirrelloid
Oct 03, 2007, 08:09 AM
Having noticed the wiki is without a Carthage strategy guide, here's what worked for me on Monarch.

Carthage
You have 3 relatively easy goals as Carthage, but two of them have to be accomplished by 350AD, which can be pretty tight because you'll probably have to take or raze Babylon.

UHV:
(1) Secure 3 dye by 350AD
(2) Control 5 mediterranean cities by 350AD
(3) Be the first to circumnavigate

Opening Moves
Found on the spot with the settler (your second one is in a galley). Defend with an archer and send the other two archers moving by land across africa towards egypt. Load the 3 nubian cavalry into the galleys, and head east. Have one work boat work the fish, and send the other east behind your galleys (it'll probably make contact with Egypt for you).

When you run into Egypt, you can generally trade some techs, and afterwards sign open borders - do so. Try to trade with Greece for techs, but they probably won't. You can OB to check out Athens, but generally its poorly defended - they defend the marble instead...

Anyway, declare on greece when your galleys can get next to Athenai in 1 turn - in two games i played they defended only with a warrior, something your nubians will eat even when attacking from the galley. If you're lucky, you'll also pick up their two workers. Heal that cavalry, hire a mercenary (it'll appear in athens next turn). Next turn load the mercenary (your nubian is probably still healing), and send both galleys towards Urshalim/Sur.

Check out the situation - if Babylon controls Sur, its going to be annoying - especially if they have many archers there. Take Urshalim first (this may require ferrying more mercenaries from athenai), and then build up for Sur, probably as part of a Babylon campaign. In this case, your settler can be taken back to the dye next to Egypt and founded as Barca (west of the Dye).

If Sur is independent, land your units north of it (including the settler) - what you have should be sufficient to take it next turn. It'll auto-raze, allowing you to found on the forested hill instead (I think its Gebil? I renamed it Antioch). (Babylon culture will prevent you from claiming those two dye immediately, but you're in position to do so now. Founding next to the dye near egypt first is a mistake because if you don't found this city now, you're going to be tight on time to do so later since you'll have to capture or raze Babylon first). Hire more mercenaries, go get the healing cavalry, and push south to take Urshalim. I rename it Tyre to stay true to my Phoenician roots.

A note on mercenaries: don't feel bad about sacrificing them early in an offensive to weaken the opposing units so your units can destroy them. A dead mercenary no longer needs to be paid.

At this point you have 4/5 mediterranean cities, almost have 2 dye (except for Babylon's culture), and have access to a site for a 5th city with a dye next to it - Barca. Athens should build a settler as soon as it hits size 4, whip it when able, and galley it across.

Remember those two archers in N Africa? One should be stopped where Barca is going to be. The other should continue East and help garrison one of your two cities there.

Now all you need to do is push Babylon so you can claim those two dye next to your city.

And what are your cities doing?
Your UP to get cheap mercenaries means your cities should be focusing on things other than unit production. In particular, they need Cothons ASAP for the +1 Trade Route. After the Cothon, i generally set my capitol to the Great Lighthouse.

Similarly, your first tech should be currency, followed by mathematics (for catapults - you'll need them later). After that you should either research essential military technologies (like iron working if you can't get it in trade), or tech towards optics for caravels. Calendar is nice, but you don't need it for your UHV (secure just means in your city radius).

The Siege of Babylon
You actually have almost enough units in the middle east to take Babylon, what you need are some catapults. When Athens has a Cothon/Library and has built a settler for Barca, its time to start massing catapults and ferrying them over to the ME. 3-4 of them should be enough. If you feel you're short on units, hire some mercenaries just before you declare war. They'll have 4-5 bowmen and maybe some warriors - you should walk over them pretty easily. At that point, you can either finish them off or make peace.

Where to go from here?
You now have 3 dye and 5 mediterranean cities, so your first 2 goals are done. You might also have a pile of cash from conquests. At this point i tend to turtle and tech like mad for Optics. I generally grab the Great Library, and try for other wonders that could be useful. (The Colossus is also a great grab).

If you go for the Great Wall, you want it in Africa. Your "Asian" (Middle Eastern) cities are well buffered by Babylon (if you made peace) and Persia from most potential barbarians, and you have a decent army for any camels coming out of the desert - make some spearmen if you need them and you'll be fine. Athenai will get attacked occasionally from the north, but mostly those barbarians will go after Rome. There is a good choke, and you might consider founding Byzantion to dual choke into Turkey and towards Athenai from the northern barbarians.

Once you get Optics, upgrade your starting Trireme if you still have it, and send it south around SAm. If you were lucky, Egypt built a city that let you shortcut into the red sea from the Med and you've got a map out to NZ already. If not, build some more caravels.

At this point, you can either sit back and wait to circumnavigate, or you can go builder or conquest. Expanding into Anatolia or northern Greece is possible, as Turkey shouldn't spawn before you circumnavigate. You can alternately push through Persia and into India if you want to go warmonger, or take out Egypt. Whatever you're doing, you're just killing time while you tech optics and sail your ships.

Things to watch out for
At some point Rome will probably declare on you. They won't do much however. They may try to snipe your fishing boats. If you see an opportunity to sink a galley with your trireme, take it. You can often get them to make peace with you immediately afterwards. Fighting Rome (unless you set out to do so early) in earnest is a bad idea, as the Legionaire is too much for your cavalry to handle. Its also totally unnecessary to defeat rome to meet your UHV - they have no dye and the mediterranean is a big place.

Barbarians in North Africa will be horrendous while you're out circumnavigating the globe if you teched fast enough. This means you can seriously not care about them pillaging your improvements because you're just waiting on that galley. Stock axes and spears in your cities and wait. Taking the fight out of the cities is dangerous, and you'll probably want war elephants to do so - India might trade you Ivory, or you can found in Morocco to grab the elephants there.

wr4th
Oct 03, 2007, 01:41 PM
Chinese UHV, 600AD start
There was a request for a guide to chinese uhv for the 600AD start in another thread. So here is mine, worked for me on monarch.

600AD A lot of work to be done, 16 temples and 4 cathedrals within 40 turns! Sounds impossible, but it can be done...

Found Bejing on the spot, start building worker, 2 workers start pasture the pigs, one settler S to found Guiyang NW of copper (important for academys and pagodas) together with archer, cuz Khmer tend to declare war at some point, the other settler goes E to found Shenyang between wheat and pigs, horsearcher moves SE to Hangzhou (no defender), one Cho-Ko-Nu S to Guangzhou (spearman defender), the other to tibet (2 warrior in Lhasa one swordsman NW of Lhasa), 2 swordsmen E to Seoul. Change Civic to Bureaucracy / Slavery (1 turn anarchy) and start teching for monotheism.
tech path: monotheism - engineering (for pikemen and castles) - guilds - banking (for your suffering economy) - philosophy - nationalism (for drafting your third victory condition)

On the next turn Qufu and Xi'an flip to you they have both temples each already built. The archer can stay in Qufu, one spearman to Bejing the other to Shenyang to defend from barbarians. Switch to confucianism.

All towns start with building a worker. Except Guangzhou and Hangzhou they will build a workboat and whip it when reaching pop 2.

When the pigs are done the first worker moves to build a mine on the iron next to bejing, the other chops the silk. For now only chop, never build the ressources it costs to much time and your towns won't be working more than 2 tiles anyway. And only build roads where its usefull for your missionaries, all ressources can be connected quick after 1000AD with 10 or more workers running around.

Guangzhou is easy for your Cho-Ko-Nu, and so is Lhasa. The one from Guangzhou should go up to Xi'an if a swordman spawns between there and Lhasa (happened once to me, very annoying).
Seoul has a Longbowman vs 2 of your swordsmen. Its about 50% chance to succeed. If you don't...just reload :)

In 660AD China should look like this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/124572/China_660AD.jpg
On the next turn Lhasa will fall, which in fact is pretty useless. Its town number 9 and i just use it for building workers. 2 until 1000AD, after that do what you like. Switch to Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion religion on your next turn.

Babarians from the north are a pain, but with 2 spearmen each in bejing and shenyang and maybe walls you are save. They dont pillage so let them come but be carefull with your workers.

Spearmen can be whipped in one turn, so i wait with that until barbarians appear. In my winning game the first wave actually game before i connected the iron, but i put the spearman on the hill while my worker was working and they just attacked and died.

The worker built in bejing irrigates the wheat N of Qufu, the worker captured in Korea builds a road to shenyang and pastures the pig. The worker which chopped the silk goes to Xi'an and the other stays at bejing. Qufu worker goes to Hangzhou and Guiyang worker starts mining the copper.

Bejing, Qufu and Xi'an will be building missionaries until all towns except Lhasa have confucianism and taoism. Remember there can be no more than 3 of one type so build them evenly and also make sure every city gets one religion first so they can start with the temples right away. When Qufu is done with missionaries build more workers here.

The procedure for building is always chop, then whip. Even whip if its done in one turn to produce more hammers for your next task. Also make sure that you always finish 4 temples of one type so you can start with one cathedral.
They will be built in Bejing, Xi'an, Hancheng and Guiyang. Xi'an should not use more than 2 chops for missionaries, that leaves three for the cathedral, it will stay at 2 pop so DONT whip there!! You also need 2 mines to work at Xi'an or you won't finish in time. This should be the first cathedral to start.

After that you start in Bejing cuz the other towns will still be busy with the temples. Start moving workers south as soon as possible. Guangzhou and Hangzhou are always last when finishing temples.

Always connect one food ressource for each town so it can regrow fast. Hancheng can produce 2 woarkboats in between temples and Guiyang can be your last cathedral, with 5 chops left and all your workers free it can finish in 3 or 4 turns.

Right now it should be 1000AD, take a deep breath and go on for your next challange. 200 Years until the mongols arrive.
All your workers are free to connect every ressource thats lying around, northern towns should build castles, qufu builds grocer and bank when available. Forge in all towns. And after that units, units, units...
Focus on cheap pikemen, and maybe some cho-ko-nu. Dont forget to whip everytime you can. Your military presence will solve the unhappyness.

If Khmer or Japan declare war on you, just dont care. They wont send anything that could harm you. Just be sure to spread your troops evenly.

When in 1200AD the mongols appear they will be no match. They didnt even dare to declare in my game. bejing and shenyang are right outside their boarders so no flipping occurs.

Wait til 1400 to get your golden age. Switch to nationhood when available and draft what is neccessary to hit the 120 troops mark. So after hitting goal number one its fairly easy.

Hope that was not to confusing and it helps :)

Rhye
Oct 05, 2007, 07:31 AM
added to the wiki. Thank you!

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 11, 2007, 12:36 AM
Do somebody has a tip on Mali?

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 11, 2007, 02:54 AM
Oh yeah!

I now have a companion,

On getting the Malian UHV.

Introducing Riker!!!!!

General tip: Use the iron to build units and conquer cities.

Rhye
Oct 11, 2007, 02:57 AM
we've now got only Ethiopia, Netherlands, Portugal, Inca, Mongolia and America lacking a guide
And a paragraph on Plague.

I'd love to collect them to a single document that could be easily downloaded and printed

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 11, 2007, 02:59 AM
Rhye, you have mali already?

Rhye
Oct 11, 2007, 03:21 AM
there's a guide already, could possibly be updated

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 11, 2007, 08:10 AM
Well, portugal is kinda easy. Unlike the netherlands, the time in this CIV drags so slow like a snail. You can plan well because the extra ten colonies have no time limit other than 2050.

Rhye
Oct 11, 2007, 03:24 PM
mmmm i might add a time limit then

Rikard78
Oct 11, 2007, 04:36 PM
Thank you very much for the advice. Germany is my favourite civ to play in RFC, and once I finally win a game with them, I'll move on and try to win with other civs.

Normally, it's not that Rome has the city locations in Austria, it's that their borders expand through the city spots, so I can't found cities in Austria. The greeks almost always collapse within about 5 turns of founding, so I'll try and grab that land. When Rome is defeated, my plan would be to destroy France, and then Russia.

I've just finished a German UHV victory on vanilla but it was really, really painful to get it. And I got a terrible Dan Quail score in 2030.

I was lucky enough that when Germany spawned, Rome had already collapsed. With my initial axe and swordsmen I took rome. Berlin was settled on site. Two great cities are Salzburg and Budapest - the production is simply fantastic. I founded another on the shores of the black sea to get horses and to stop the russian expansion.

One piece of advice: Keep isabella sweet! she's fantastic to help weaken the french and you don't want to have her as an enemy as well as Russia and England.

I dived in with mace and cats when France was weak and took Paris and Aix la chappelle/aachen pretty easily.

Then it was a pretty peaceful strategy to beeline to liberalism and consolidate tech lead.

Spain had taken bordeaux... my strategy was to take that by culture flipping having massive culture in Lyon and Paris via religious upgrades and loads of farms to turn France into a GA production site. I'm sure that would have worked but around 1800, France re-spawned and I didn;t need to declare war on Izzy to get Bordeaux.

The only other thing I did was to get hold of Scandinavia - that was achieved through a couple of international congresses from the barbs.

Greece had also collapsed so taking her was simple. Gaining the 1st uhv is a piece of cake.

Next beeline to Industry building up large numbers of bowmen and attack russia and england in that order but don't leave it too late! I started attacking Russia in 1912 and although they were dead by 1928, I started taking Britain and Ireland in 1922 and only just wiped them all out by 1940. Start against Britain earlier :)

That gives you 2 of the uhv's and then it's just a straight tech run. I decided to give England back all of its cities as I couldn't afford to keep them. However, I think I still had too many cities; I had all of europe except Spain and all of Russia up to Afghanistan. I've never looked into the research multipliers but I was absolutely crippled on tech even though I was running at 80% and had loads of uber cities.

Apart from a scare towards the end where it looked like the americans might get to space race victory at about the same time as me, that was it. Really tedious ending to the game, I'm afraid.

I saw an earlier poster that souded like they'd destroyed the whole world with the germans. I think I'll go back and try again with them and look at trying his strategy. This way was not so much fun in the end.

Rikard78
Oct 11, 2007, 04:37 PM
apologies for rambling btw :)

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 12, 2007, 12:36 AM
Pls. have mercy, Rhye!

Mxzs
Oct 12, 2007, 01:10 AM
I've been playing with Egypt quite a bit recently, and have used a lot of the tips offered in this thread to polish up a strategy that is peaceful, pretty hassle-free, and seems to work much more often than not at getting an easy UHV win on the Monarch level. On the theory that there's nothing wrong with adding another strategy to the already copious number of Egypt strategies in this thread, here is mine.

Summary: You must surmount four tasks in order to win the Egyptian Historical Victory. You can win the first (getting 500 culture by 700BC) by building Wonders early (Stonehenge, Pyramids, Oracle). You can win the second (building the Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, and Great Library by AD 250) by bee-lining the appropriate techs. You can win a decent shot at the third (getting 5000 culture by AD 450) by switching to Caste System and hiring two or three Artist specialists in your capital. The (unofficial) fourth task is to survive an onslaught of barbarians and Impis. You can better your chances here by building the Great Wall.

Details:

1. Move your initial Settler two squares northwest to settle at Siwa, which is relatively healthy and has access to the Stone, Marble, and population-supporting Wheat squares. Your initial build order (once appropriate techs have been researched) will be Worker-Stonehenge-Pyramids-Oracle-Settler. Initial tech path will be Mysticism-Masonry-Meditation-Priesthood-Writing.

2. Send your Warrior to pop the African goodie huts. If you're lucky, you can get all of them and their benefits, and if you're really lucky your Warrior might even make it back to Siwa. It's probably a suicide mission, though, and there's a good chance you won't get the hut down near the Cape of Good Hope because of all the durned wildlife. Well, c'est la vie.

3. Once your Worker is built, have it farm the Wheat square, then move down to quarry the Stone and then up to quarry the Marble. He should also build a road from Siwa to Per-Atum (the hill on the Red Sea that has/will have Bronze in it). It's also a good idea to build a road down to the Stone quarry, so that you can get troops down quickly to fight Impis later on. You will have three forests within your borders, eventually, and after you get Bronzeworking you can chop these to rush some stuff. If you run out of stuff for your Worker to do, no worries. Farming, quarrying, and road-building are the important things.

Side note A: If you're nervous about getting the Oracle (which is one of the key bits in this strategy), you can interrupt Pyramids to build it. But if you do this, be sure that the Oracle isn't built until after you get Writing. That's because you will use the Oracle to get Mathematics as your free tech, and Mathematics isn't available for discovery until after Writing. (You want Mathematics because it will make reaching Construction—and the Great Wall—much easier.)

Side note B: If you get your Warrior back from his expeditions, well, three cheers and a tiger for you—he can keep Siwa from getting an angry citizen or two. Otherwise, you might have to build another Warrior before you build your Settler.

5. After you get your three initial Wonders built—and maybe after you get the Settler built—switch to Caste System. You will not have whipped anything, and Siwa should be size 6. At this point you can throttle growth back. Put the extra population (2 or 3, depending on how big you let Siwa get) to work as Artists.

6. You will probably get a Great Prophet as your first GP. If so, put him to work as a super-specialist—the extra hammers are good, and you can probably get Polytheism (the only religious tech worth getting) from one of your neighbors later on. If you're lucky and get a Great Engineer, save him to rush build one of your later wonders (any that you're nervous about getting). Having Artists at work in Siwa, though, will give you a solid shot at getting a Great Artist as your second GP. You will also probably get a third GP before time runs out, so you will have two shots at getting a Great Artist. If and when you do, have him create his great work. That by itself will get you 80% toward meeting the third UHV.

7. After you build your Settler, move it to the Red Sea coast. I like to build Per-Atum, on the hill with Bronze, so as to save the trouble of building a mine on that hill. Have that city start building the Great Lighthouse as soon as you get Sailing. The hill in Sinai either is or will quickly move within your cultural boundaries, and you can use your Worker to mine it (once you have Mining; see below).

8. After you have built your Settler and gotten Writing and Mathematics, you have a lot of leeway in what you build and what you research. In Siwa, you should build a Library and maybe a Barracks. If you get Bronzeworking quickly (see below) you can also start building Axemen. (Alternately, if you don't get Bronzeworking but do get Archery or Hunting, you can build Archers or Spearmen).

9. For techs: You will have made contact with the Greeks, and will eventually make contact with the Carthaginians and Romans. They will have or will quickly get Alphabet, so you won't have to research that tech in order to trade with them. Use the opportunity to secure from them some of the following: Sailing, Bronzeworking, Polytheism, Mining, Fishing, Hunting, Archery. (The price will be steep, but worth it.) The first four techs in that list are the key ones to get. You need Sailing for the Lighthouse; Mining to build a mine in Sinai; Polytheism to get to Literature; and Bronzeworking to build Axemen. You need Fishing only if you can't get Sailing directly; and you need Hunting and Archery only if you're feeling extra nervous about your neighbors. Whatever you can't trade for, you'll have to research. Except for Bronzeworking, though, most of these techs are pretty cheap.

9. But Construction is what you should be concentrating on after getting Mathematics. It won't be a quick research, but it won't take inordinately long to get, either. As soon as you get it, start building the Great Wall. Before you can win a Historical Victory, there will be about 20 turns during which you will have to defend your cities and the Wonders they contain from barbarian Camel Archers, and the Wall will solve that problem nicely. The Wall won't protect you from Impis, but that's why God created Axemen.

10. After you get Construction, beeline Literature and build the Great Library. If you haven't gotten a Great Artist by this point, you can continue on to Music. You should be able to get that tech and its free Great Artist before time runs out.

From that point on, it's mostly just a question of protecting yourself from Impis and any neighbors (most likely the Romans, but occasionally the Carthaginians or the Ethiopians) who get randy. I rarely have any problems with my neighbors, but even when I do, they don't do much. The barbs usually show up at about the time my competitors would be getting aggressive, and that keeps them busy while I'm snug behind the Great Wall. Anyway, if you've timed it right, you will have built the Great Library about 10 to 20 turns before Turn 143 rolls around, and you can use that time to churn out Axemen. Siwa will probably be able to kick a new Axemen out every 2 turns.

This strategy isn't foolproof. One of your rivals might get the Oracle or the Pyramids before you do; less likely, but still possible, they might snag the Wall or the Lighthouse. You might not get a Great Artist. You might also have the really bad luck to have a unit-killing plague hit just as hordes of Impis come up from the south. (In one of my tests, I had a trifecta of bad luck: hordes of Impis, a plague that killed all my units, and a mediated treaty between the Natives and the Ethiopians, who are usually a bit of a buffer. That game got ugly at the end.) But I've found that I have an excellent shot at fulfilling the Historical goals with this strategy.

Squirrelloid
Oct 12, 2007, 04:59 AM
Mxzs:
Great Artists aren't necessary for Egypt's UHV. You can get it by wonder-whoring basically all the early wonders (which is actually pretty easy to do so long as you keep in mind which ones the computer is likely to go after). In fact, I don't think i got the Oracle when i did it. I did GE the Great Lighthouse, but i don't think i needed to.

I think Egypt is also capable of UHVing even when building on the starting spot, but i haven't given this a true test. I just know i made the first one when playing egypt to screw around before switching to the civ i wanted to play. (Waiting for autoturns is boring). You build your second city at Alexandria (West of the wheat, forget what the egyptian name is). This version probably needs Caste System for GAs, because it probably will have a harder time getting the Colossus before Japan builds it, and production in your capitol will be lower.

(And of course, the third way to do the UHV is to warmonger with the Pyramids, and let Nwt-rst start wonderwhoring after you've got other cities doing your producing for you. Remarkably effective - i made the first UHV totally by accident doing this once).

Mxzs
Oct 12, 2007, 07:47 PM
Yeah, there are a lot of ways to skin the Egyptian cat. I like going for a Great Artist because there are lots of ways of snagging one (either through GP generation or by getting Music). It also means you can direct your building queue toward other stuff than just wonders.

wr4th
Oct 14, 2007, 12:48 PM
So here's my guide to mongolian uhv.

Mongolia, 600AD start, monarch

Since you start out very late (1190AD) and all you do is conquer, it is all based on luck in combats and how china has evolved since the start. The game can not be planned like other uhv, so take this as advice but be flexible in your game.

Goals
Control China by 1300 AD
This is fairly easy, although you only have 10 rounds to acomplish this. Just rush into china with all you've got and see them fall.

Raze at least 7 cities
This goal is closely connected to your UP. If you raze a city all smaller cities of the same civ within a few tiles (4?) flip to you within the next two turns. So you have to sacrifice a big city to get all those small cities for free, but good spots for the use of this UP are rare. In china you dont want to lose any city, because its your base of operations. The only usefull spot seems to be turkey where a lot of cities are close together. Remember there is no time limit for this goal so go for it after the third one...

Control 10% of world territory by 1500 AD
This is the hard one. But since its been lowered to 10% its doable. Of course you want to control all of china and mongolia home lands which is about 5-6% for the rest there is pretty much only one choice. Khmer disquallyfies because of the small area and those annoying elephants, India is hard to access because of the jungle and for japan you need ships. So the horde needs to head west. Thats why the silk road is already built. Take Afghanistan, Persia, Mesopotamia and Turkey to complete the 10%.

Techs
First your economy will be crap, but you only need two vital techs:
- calendar for getting all these resources in china. You need them to compensate for the massive whipping that you are doing.
- engineering for +1 speed on roads to get reinforcements by the silk road to the middle east. This can wait until you have conquered china.

Civics
In my game i used vassalage/slavery. You can also ad hereditary rule but it will give you one more turn of anarchy and since you will never have more than one troop in each city its rather pointless.
You dont have religious civics at the start and you should never use them later since must not have any state religion. Any non-state religion in your towns gives you -1 stability and in the end its most likely that you will have all 7 religions somewhere in your empire, which would kill you and it also means there is only small profit from any religious civic.
There might be one exception, if you conquer the swedagon, free religion (then together with hereditary rule) is an option.

China
After the auto turns save, make it a habit to save when achieving important goals on your conquest. Found Karakorum on spot, switch civics and start teching towars calendar. All your troops head towards bejing. Settle Turfan S of the iron, Ulan Ude N of the horses, Ning Hsia on the river (doesnt matter actually) and Sanchu W of the fur.
On the next turn all chinese towns north of bejing will flip to you. I got two Baotou in the destert (useless) and Jinzhou (really good). Distribute the troops you get from flipping within your towns. I also got a settler in Jinzhou which went north to found Kazan. Usually you have to built this settler which is no problem since the southern chinese towns have massive food.
It is extremely important that china declares war on you uppon flipping, so you get extra keshiks. If its not -> reload.
Crush Bejing and it becomes Khanbaliq and your best production city. Together with Jinzhou (or the town somewhere there), Karakorum, Ulan Ude and Turfan it will built an endless supply of Kheshiks. But first these towns build barracks and ger and after that ONLY Keshiks. Your other towns start of with a settler, then build courthouses and after that one longbowman for happyness reasons. If no religion spreads to them build a library to expand your culture/empire.
Split your troops 2 Keshiks head to Korea, 4 to tibet, the rest goes south. Look what troops are defending. In my game Hangzhou was defended by 2 pikemen, thats the time to bring in your crossbows. Qufu should build market and grocer to maximise output of the shrines. Hangzhou and Gangzhou build workboats and build settlers if needed.
Scout for workers. China has massive amounts of workers running around, gotta catch em all :) You have vast terretories to improve.
In my game i also took Hanoi and razed it to found another town north of it. Taking complete khmer empery costs to much troops and time and is not advised.
If you think you lost to much troops or to much time, just reload and do it better, its just a few turns to conquer china but it determines your whole game.

Consolidation
Get your workers to work. Connect those happyness resources (dont forget the fur and gold at Sanchu). One worker heads to each settled town and builds a road, together with the built one you have two workers per town, which is a good rule of thump. Build 2 or 3 improvements per town, after that focus on chopping. More wont work anyway since you whip them.
Karakorum gets irrigation and mills on all tiles.
Start moving your forces down the silk road to smarkand which will usually be arabian.

Final Conquest
At around 1400AD you should have a nice amount of keshiks on the borders of Smarkand, the earlier the better of course. Take something like six workers with you to build roads and then let the horde rush into the middle east. Take those persian/afghan towns parallel and after that collect your troops to declare on turkey. If you can do it, trade maps with turkey before, to see which town is best to raze.
I razed Bagdad which made Iskenderum and Konya flip on the next turn. In that turn i also took Trabzon and Sögüt, which left Turkey with only 2 towns after 2 turns of invasion. On the next turn the turks had gone to civil war. Most of his troops were in Kudüs/Jerusalem, so i didnt dare to conquer that. I took Tebriz and so controlled all of Turkey, Mesopotamia and Persia, which gave me around 9.5%.
I then conquerd the still independent towns of constantinople and athens to expand my borders.
At around 1450 stop sendind keshiks to the middle east, instead take the single japanese city of kisi with 4 or 5 Keshiks. After that send them west.
With this territory you should have around 11% of the world which is comfortable to hit the goal at 1500AD, which will be only few turns after you take Athens. Enjoy your Golden Age!

Razing towards UHV
Heal and split your troops, which should be plenty at that moment. You still have to raze another 5 towns.
One part goes to the arabian peninsula, the other to India. In India you will have only few resistance, raze everything. In Arabia its the same except for Mekka, so spare that and raze the smaller towns. You should hit the UHV within your golden age.

Conclusion
Your time is pretty short, so if something doesn't work out as intended load and do it better. There is no time for a second try.
You will loose a lot of Keshiks on your conquest, but your massive production compensates for that. Always make sure to have twice the number of Keshiks than defenders ready.
With barracks, ger and vassalage your Keshiks come with a nice 9XP. I always promote combat since you mostly deal with longbows or other cavalry. Put in a medic sometimes.
You will produce two to three great generals, settle them in Khanbaliq, Jinzhou and Karkorum (according to production and availability of food for whipping) to make your keshiks lvl 3 when spawning.
As in every other UHV, the key is good micromanagement especially make constant use of whipping and chopping.

Have fun with the horde!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/124572/Mongolia_Win_2.jpg

Norton II
Oct 14, 2007, 01:47 PM
I think Egypt is also capable of UHVing even when building on the starting spot, but i haven't given this a true test. I just know i made the first one when playing egypt to screw around before switching to the civ i wanted to play. (Waiting for autoturns is boring). You build your second city at Alexandria (West of the wheat, forget what the egyptian name is). This version probably needs Caste System for GAs, because it probably will have a harder time getting the Colossus before Japan builds it, and production in your capitol will be lower.

It is possible--I've done it on monarch. Beelined music instead of switching to caste system, though, and built the second town on the desert hill SSE of the copper hill (I forget what the city was called).

wr4th
Oct 14, 2007, 02:35 PM
and now my guide to ethiopia

Ethiopia UHV, monarch

Goals
Found one religion
I consider this the ONLY goal for ethiopia, the rest is pretty much straight forward.

No European colonies in east and subequatorial Africa in 1500 AD
No European colonies in east and subequatorial Africa in 1910 AD
These go together, just settle all of africa south from your starting position to make sure nobody gets there (check the rfc atlas).

Found one religion
As i said before this is EXTREMELY difficult to achieve. The only possibilities are christianity and islam of which i only did it with christianity.
In order to get this it must be a rather perfect game until you spawn.
Jerusalem must not be independent most likely taken by babylon
No one should tech for theology this is somehow hard to see, in most games it gets discovered by Rome, followed by Greece and China, rarely in Babylon and even one time it was founded in carthage...
From my experience you need a LOT of tries to get such a game. I tried at least 20 times, while reading a book since there are quite some autoturns.
The fastest way to actually get theology is researching it right away. Found Aksum on spot. Do NOT switch to any civics yet (safe 1 turn). Build library. Use both workers to pasture the sheep and then one cow. After that chop the forrest with one worker and pasture the other cow with the second worker. When the library is done build research until you found christianity.
If possible send the missionary to europe via open borders.

Where to build the second town?
The best spot near is for sure moqdisho E of the horses, but it's not so good for the first few turns. Instead found Gondokoro 4 S and 3 W of Aksum on the nile. There are severall reasons:
- you have more commerce for research from the water tiles
- you create a nice choke point for the impis
- when christianity gets founded there it can spread through the nile and mediteranean to all of europe.
Also build a library here and speed it up with the two chops. Build a road to Aksum to get a trade route.

Techs
Those are the vital techs to get
Theology well you know why :)
Feudalism you need Longbows because you have no iron or copper
Gunpowder you REALLY want those sweet Oromo Warriors
Biology This turns your towns into huge cities. Until that time growth will be a big issue.

Civics
As i stated above only switch civics after founding christianity. Use Slavery/Organized Religion first. State religion will give you many enemys but you definately don't want to miss the 25% production bonus, since this is what you are most lacking. I used judaism since christianity will take its time to spread and most other civs in the mediteranean where jews at that point, so i had more friends to trade techs.
When getting feudalism adopt vassalage and hereditary rule.

Defending from the impi hordes
If you really made it to this point, then prepare for an endless number of impis coming from southern africa. To defend it needs a lot of micro. Because of the impis 2 movement they like to pillage or capture your workers, so take care.
Your two archers stay in your towns, the sword- and the axeman are defending your tiles whereever needed. Thats why roads are so important. Archers get guerilla promotions and your melee get combat I and shock, which will give you a nice 90% odd when attacking them even on hills. Also build a wall at least in Gondokoro since there will be most of the action.
DON'T lose your melee troops, since you don't have copper or iron yet ther is no way to reinforce.

Egypt
Egypt is a nice place and you definately want to have it. The problem is you most likely won't get it with your troops yet. So you should wait until it falls to the barbarians and/or goes into civil war, thats the time to attack. Take 3 or 4 Longbow and take over the egypt towns. Afterwards build walls and a second defender in every town, only then buildings and workers to improve the land. Make constant use of the whip.

Settling Africa
The first town to settle (after your initial two) will be moqdisho E of the horse. With the fish it has nice food production and also nice production. Also build a workboat for Aksum.
Aksum is your military base, build barracks and with vassalage or great general produce nice guerilla II longbows and defend at several choke points from the impis.
Next city to found is Zanzibar 2 S of the gems. Maybe i was to quick since a few turns later Mombasa spawned on the gems. I invaded it and it got destroyed.
Quelimane and Zimbabwe are independant and you can take the easily with your two promoted melee units.
Found two more towns in south africa to deny it from the english and dutch. This should be done before 1500AD to be safe. Short after you should build two more towns on the west coast to have no free space to settle within the uhv area. In the centre there is room for at least two more cities, but thats not so urgent.
Important is to get your state religion or one cultural building to the newly founded towns to close the 'gaps'. Also build courthouses everywhere to keep your stability high. Anyway you will be shaky most of the time.
Improve all tiles with irrigation/mills to have growth and be able to whip. Only after biology turn the mills into mines and thus turn zimbabwe into a production powerhouse.

Economy
Your economy will be really weak. To research at all Aksum should switch between building troops and building research. The towns in Egypt might also house some scientists.
Make sure your christian holy city has market, grocer and a bank (if you can trade for the tech). If you are lucky judaism was founded in egypt, another reason to take it. If you have both holy towns they can give you like 50% research, which is a lot :)
Be nice to all other civs, you definately want no war and you want as much open borders as possible for trade routes, since you have many coastal towns you should also build lighthouses for that reason.
When you reach biology you will most likely be the only one to have it. And since you are lacking behind in all other techs you can trade it to at least 10 civs for some nice techs. Try to get constitution to build jails for more stability. Also get nationalism and build the olympics to increase your stability with a second golden age.
If you are not shaky you might consider switching to free market/bureaucracy (makes aksum spawn a drill IV Oromo every 1 or 2 turns).
I always had 10 Oromos ready in Aksum to counter the losses of plague and thus making your undefended towns split when you are shaky.

Conclusion
After reaching the first goal, which is pure luck and needs a lot of tries and surviving the impis until you settled all spawning areas its a pretty peacefull game with a really weak economy to deal with. So the problem is not to reach the last two goals, it is to reach them without becoming unstable.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/124572/Ethiopia_Win_3.jpg

For those who dont want to try so many times, here is my game right after founding christianity in turn 133.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/124572/Ethiopia_founded_christianity_turn_133.CivBeyondSw ordSave

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 15, 2007, 01:00 AM
I can admit that Ethiopia is difficult.

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 15, 2007, 04:09 AM
Whu wantz guides in portugal?????!!!!!!!?????

Squirrelloid
Oct 15, 2007, 11:10 PM
@wr4th:

Stability problems? Ethiopia? Nah...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162399&stc=1&d=1192511146

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162400&stc=1&d=1192511146

Ok, that's after I industrialized and not too long before winning a UHV. My economy was total crap until then, and my stability pretty bad. Also note i had like 5 defensive pacts... But its the first time I've ever been "very solid" in RFC. I also managed to be rather competitive on technology, but i turned Egypt into cottage land. (Egypt having founded Buhen really helped, as it flipped to me and made them DOW me).

Edit: Can't seem to actually get it to display the images... oh well, clicky the linky.

Mxzs
Oct 17, 2007, 12:13 AM
Rhye mentioned that the Netherlands still needs a Strategy Guide. I used my own recent experiences and the many helpful tips in this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=238327) to make a very general discussion of the Dutch Historical Victory.

Unlike many other civs, whose UHV conditions can often be met only with some very narrow and mutually exclusive strategies, the Dutch have conditions that can be met with a wide variety of tactics. Basically, as long as you know what you're trying to do, you stand an excellent chance of getting a Historical victory. So, I didn't prescribe any particular research-build-settle path in the guide. I just laid out the basics and mentioned some of the various tactics the player can use.

Comments, corrections, and suggestions welcome, of course.

* * * * *

The following Strategy Guide is intended for AD 600 starts.

Overview
The Dutch spawn after the Vikings, Spanish, French, Germans, and English, but before the Portuguese. They appear with a few techs that will be new to their neighbors, but they will not have much room to expand on the continent itself. This can put them at a somewhat of a disadvantage later in the game, after the French, English, et al, begin leveraging their larger empires into faster research speeds.

But that's okay. When going for a Historical Victory, the key is to expand overseas, not in Europe, and to do that you only need a few key techs up front.

The Dutch UHV conditions:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1600.
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia.
3. Secure or get by trade 7 Spices resources by 1775.

It is most important to note the manner in which the third condition is calculated. To meet it, you do not need to actually draw Spices from the resources you "secure." This means you do not need to build roads and plantations on those Spice resources. It is enough to put a city on the same landmass as the resource and bring it within your cultural borders.

Because the Dutch goals require you to found several settlements in widely dispersed corners of the globe and to have a large map, you need to prioritize getting Optics (for Caravels) and Astronomy (for East Indiamen). After that, it is little more than a race to explore and settle the world by the time limits indicated. This is not difficult.

There are many tactics to use in going for a Dutch Historical victory. In what follows I will lay out the basics while noting places where different tactics can be employed. Most of the alternatives are drawn from the RFC subforum at civfanatics.com

Amsterdam
Amsterdam is a rich location—with a Fish, a Clam, a Wheat, and a Cattle square within its fat cross, it has the potential to grow very large. Health and happiness, not food, will put a limit on how large you let your capital grow. But it is not necessary to absolutely max it out in population. A size of 13 or 14 can be quite sufficient for winning a Historical victory.

To offset Amsterdam's production weaknesses, you can build Workshops on available land tiles and then run Caste System and Bureaucracy as Civics. (The former is available at the start, but you will have to research Civil Service to get the latter.) Alternately, you can ramp up food production even further with Farms and generate Great People who, as super-specialists, can provide hammers and other benefits.

Your continental base is very small: you will probably be squeezed in closely by Hamburg. There is a chance that Hamburg will flip to you early on; there is also the chance of conquering it early with your starting Crossbowmen. (There's also the chance that it will not have been built.0 If you take Hamburg early, you can use it for extra gold and production; if you take it late, you can raze it so as to give Amsterdam maximal room. You also have an early Settler that you might put in Denmark. That second city will add land to your European base, secure a Pig resource, and put greater cultural pressure on Hamburg.

Against these possibilities, you need to consider the tension with Germany that would result from a war for Hamburg, and the cultural tension with the Vikings that would come from settling in Denmark. While it is certainly possible to survive and even win wars against your neighbors, such wars at the very least can be a major distraction from reaching the Historical goals. Moreover, it is quite easy to get a Historical Victory without ever taking Hamburg or settling in Denmark.

That's because Amsterdam itself is remarkably powerful. It will quickly grow to size 12 or larger, and when you bump up against the health and happiness ceilings, you can turn off growth by hiring specialists. This means that the city is a terrific Great Person farm that you can run in whatever manner suits you. Each player has his or her own preferred GP style, and Amsterdam is a lovely playground to indulge yourself.

Going for Wonders in Amsterdam is a debatable strategy. There is much to be said for getting Notre Dame and maybe one or two other Wonders early on. Against that, though, is the opportunity cost of adding smaller, non-Wonder buildings. Also, if you like to plan your GP production you may not like unwanted Wonder modifiers interfering with the odds of generating the GP you are aiming for. In any case, it is quite easy to win a Historical Victory without building a single Wonder.

Do remember that a Castle can generate an extra trade route.

The Empire
After Amsterdam is up and running (which will hardly take any time at all), you will need to turn your attention to getting your empire going.

Besides Optics (and its prerequisite Compass) and Astronomy, there are a number of techs that will be highly useful: Civil Service will enable the highly efficient Bureaucracy civic; Gunpowder will give your cities more protection and help deter aggressors; Paper will enable map-trading; Chemistry can improve the output of Workshops. Beyond these, it is probably best to tailor your research as circumstances require. You are unlikely to get Steam Power and Dikes, though, long before you win the Historical Victory.

As the Netherlands is small, it is generally a good idea to stay on good terms with your neighbors. This primarily means the French, Germans, English and Vikings. A little judicious tech gifting early on can earn you points. You can also win points by staying on top of tech developments in other countries and trading for what you need and what they want. A strong defense will deter them from treating you badly. If you're willing to pay the price, an early conversion to Theocracy can help keep the ever-aggressive Isabella off your back and keep your defenses strong.

When you spawn you will have two Settlers. One will found Amsterdam. What to do with the other one? If you don't use it for a city in Denmark, you can send it to Australia, build a city in Africa, or do an early settle near a Spice resource.

The last is probably the least good idea, unless you build in India as a staging area for attacking the Khmer later in the game. There will be time to grab Spices later in the game, after you have Astronomy. If you send the Settler to Africa, you have two good locations. On the northeast coast, you will find Iron, Ivory, Wine, Horse, and Sheep (though the latter run some risk of falling under Spanish control later in the game). In the southeast, near Madagascar, you can find Sugar, Gold, Gems, and Iron. This location, however, is close to Native cities. The units these produce can be useful for generating a Great General if you have good protective units properly stationed, but they are a nuisance or a danger otherwise.

If you send the Settler to Australia (which you can reach with your Galley), you again have the choice of settling on the northwest or southeast coasts. In the northwest you can find Gold and Fish, along with two Iron and two Gem resources; in the southeast you can find Silver and some very fertile countryside.

Settling in Australia (especially the northwest) will give you some badly needed resources and meet one of your UHV goals; it will also act as a happy staging ground for settling in the Spice islands of Indonesia. Africa, however, will provide a quicker return of resources. Probably there isn't a wrong answer to the question of which you should settle.

(There are also two Spices and several other resources that can be found in southern Persia. You can try taking these, if you don't mind having Saladin as a neighbor.)

Once you have Optics, you shouldn't miss the chance to visit the Aztecs to try to get the Adventurers spawn. You can use that army to conquer the Aztecs (and thus secure a Spice resource); you can transport it off for use elsewhere (in southern Africa, for instance); or you can gift it to the Aztecs for use against your European rivals when they show up in the Americas.

Once you have Astronomy, don't forget to switch to Resettlement.

UHV Conditions
1. Australia: This might seem the most dodgy condition to try to meet, as you have no way of knowing if or when one of your rivals might blunder onto and settle Australia while you're distracted elsewhere. Often, though, the other civs are slow to find and settle Australia. While you shouldn't let this goal slide too long, you don't have to lunge for it right away. If you don't use one of your starting Settlers to colonize Australia, you should probably wait until after you have secured some of the more important Spice locations before sending a Settler down under.

2. Map Quest: This is probably the easiest goal to meet. After getting Optics, you can build between two and four Caravel-Explorer pairs and send them off to sweep out the various continents and oceans. (Be sure to pop every goodie hut you come across.) Before you start exploring in earnest, you can trade your map for that of your rivals so that you are not exploring redundant space, but after that you should guard your map jealously. Instead, you can add to what you know by buying maps from your rivals for between 5 and 50 gold coins at a pop. It is an especially good idea to make one final round of map purchases on the turn before this condition is to be met. That way, you will have much of what your rivals will have discovered, plus the discoveries you've made and not shared.

3. Spices: Spices are mostly clustered in the East Indies and the West Indies. The first is an arc stretching from Indochina through Sumatra and Java to New Guinea; the second is an arc stretching from northern Mexico through Cuba and down to the northeast coast of South America. In addition, there are Spices in Madagascar, southeastern India, and southern Persia.

The greatest priority should probably be on the Spices in South America. There are two there, and the Portuguese will try to take both almost as soon as they get Optics. If you do go for those Spices it is probably a good idea to plant two cities down there instead of one (though both resources can be grasped in one city's fat cross)—one of your rivals might try snagging one of your Spices by building a city right next to it. Cuba's Spice is also easy to get, provided you get there before Chichen Itza's cultural boundaries expand to take in the island's one buildable spot. (Ignore the one other Caribbean spice; it's impossible to get that one before Biology.)

If you dawdle, the Khmer will slowly expand to take the Spices in the east. The great prize in that region is New Guinea, which has two Spices that can be taken with one city. Java is also fairly easy to get, provided you move more quickly than the Khmer.

The above locations will give you six of the seven Spices you need. For the last one, you can simply take whatever locations are still free. The Spice condition will probably be the last goal you reach, and building the last city next to a Spice will likely trigger the Historical Victory.

In order to meet this third condition, you should probably count on needing at least three East Indiamen. These are cheap to upgrade from Galleys, so you can anticipate the acquisition of Astronomy by saving your two starting Galleys and building a third.

If you have doubts about getting all seven Spices, you can hedge your bets by trading for one of the Spices you need. If you do, be sure to trade for it before you get access to your own Spice by building a plantation on your resource(s). (Again, it is not necessary to build a plantation on your Spices in order to meet the third Victory condition, but you can work them anyway for the benefits they bring.) You can pick up extra Spices from other civs, though, if you vassalize them first.

You also shouldn't overly worry about fighting a war to get a seventh Spice. If the city you conquer is right next to the seventh resource you need, it will fall inside your cultural boundaries as soon as the city exits disorder. Depending on the city size, then, you will win the game only a few turns after going to war, which will likely not be enough time for your enemy to regroup and strike back.

Squirrelloid
Oct 17, 2007, 01:51 AM
@Mxzs: With the 3.13 patch you can also trade for resources you already have when trading with vassals, even if its not a corporate resource. (I just discovered this playing as Germany, when people kept offering me dye which i already had). So an alternate route for trading for spice would be vassalizing Khmer and India if/when it respawns.

And, without further ado, having noticed the strategy guide for Germany is mostly useless... (I'll note, i haven't actually won the German UHV, but only because i won a cultural victory first. As usual, i play on monarch).

Germany UHV
The Germany UHV is actually remarkably easy, as it gives you plenty of time to acquire the necessary land. The hard part is going to be maintaining a decent research rate in the face of a Giga-empire. The other danger is accidentally winning in another way before achieving the UHV. You will finish with something like 20% of the land area, and will likely be pretty close to a domination victory. You will also have to be careful about culture, as its certainly possible to achieve a cultural victory before 1940.

UHV:
(1) Control Rome, Greece, France by 1870.
(2) Control Russia, Scandinavia, and England by 1940.
(3) Be the first to finish the tech tree.

Note that "Russia" is european russia. Basically, everything to the Urals + 1-2 more tiles.

Opening moves:
While settling Berlin on the spot looks decent, I actually prefer going East one tile and founding Posen. The importance of being on a river cannot be overestimated in BTS, especially since you will get a lot of use out of levees. Further, this will give Mainz and your capitol more room, and these will be two of your best cities. Send your two other settlers towards Russia. I founded Reval on the Baltic and Landau on the Black Sea (2 tiles south of the wheat and one tile east of the iron). This will help keep Russia contained, and mean you'll have to deal with General Winter far less. It also will open Moscow to early assault, which will help force them to collapse. Defend Posen with a longbow and send the other two longbows after your settlers.

Mainz is going to flip to you almost immediately, so don't bother attacking them. Instead, take your axemen and swordsmen and send them down towards Mediolanum. When Mainz flips, grab its axeman and send him south too. Whether you want to keep or raze Mediolanum is up to you, but its going to be boxed in by Rome, Marseilles, and Mainz, and in danger of revolt until you can capture Marseilles from the french. Regardless, after Mediolanum falls, heal up and send your troops (all of them) towards Rome, leaving no defense behind. You should have enough to capture Rome, possibly with some reinforcements built back home. Rome is an incredibly important acquisition - you can build the shrine there for income (allowing 90-100% research for the early game), and it has the Colosseum and great production squares.

During this time, peace with your neighbors is the optimal strategy. Try to cultivate Isabella, Ragnar, and Elizabeth, although Elizabeth is usually frigid and unwilling to be helpful. Keeping Peter happy is a good idea, but not usually possible. Be nice to France until you're ready to strike, then be ruthless.

France:
After Rome is yours, get ready to attack Marseilles. You'll notice that with the fall of Mediolanum french culture spills across the top of the Italian peninsula. This is actually useful to you, as it means they'll send workers there to improve the land. Build catapults, axemen, and swordsmen in Posen and Mainz and stage them on the stone near Mainz. Have Rome build a defensive unit after it comes out of revolt so you can take all your remaining units with you. When you're ready, DOW france and march on marseilles. 2-3 catapults with 5-6 total axemen/swordsmen should be more than sufficient. And make sure you grab all those conveniently vulnerable workers on your way to Marseilles. The reason to move the catapults and some melee units from the north is (1) you won't have to cross teh river, (2) you'll get a nice forested hill to sit on while besieging, (3) you'll cut off Marseilles from the rest of france by sitting on their road, preventing reinforcements.

Once you have Marseilles, you'll also have exhausted most of the french forces not dedicated to defense. If they'll give away tech for peace, make peace (for the moment), but keep producing units for a push on Paris. After you take Paris you can make peace temporarily (possibly again).

The Future:
By about this time you should also be starting to garrison 2-3 troops (preferably longbow/crossbow/pikeman if available - upgrading to muskets as appropriate) in Landau and Reval, as Peter will start getting antsy. Build walls/castles and sit tight - you'll want to deal with him after the rest of France and Greece are yours.

The rest of the game basically plays itself at this point. Finish taking france, grab Greece and Constantinople. Always refuse Congress requests, and strong garrisons in Reval and Landau should hold off the Russians and the Vikings. The Turks never DOWed me, so a smaller garrison in Constantinople is probably acceptable.

I'd take Russia out first. They're more annoying than the other two, less likely to like you, and you can develop that land to help with your tech race (see below). Keep most of their cities, though I razed two that were just within the region of european russia. I'd follow up with the vikings, and save England for last. In Scandinavia I'd raze about 1/2 of the cities - they build far too close together. And with how many cities you're going to have at that point, razing a city you've just conquered is actually a net-positive for stability. Between Russia and Scandinavia, I'd take a break from military production to pump out some workers and develop the Russian land (likely poorly done and sparsely done by the Russians) before getting into your next war.

There are three good reasons for saving england till last: (1) they'll have techs you can steal (see below), (2) you'll want bombers to soften up their cities before invading, (3) they tend to settle all their GP in London, so by all means give them time to generate more. You may also want to take out Amsterdam. Especially if Spain looks likely to do so. Keep the Spanish in Spain, you'll be happier that way. And keep Spain happy. Your empire will be big enough without adding the Iberian Peninsula to it.

Technology:
One thing to keep in mind is tech trading. Always extort techs if you can. Making peace with France for a tech is always worth it. Tech trading stops being worthwhile during the early Industrial Age because the computer wants so many techs per tech they give up. Remember you're going to outproduce virtually everyone, so you should be able to win any military conflicts. (You'll also out-tech russia, which will help a lot).

Make sure you cottage a lot of those grasslands. I turned Reval into a cottage farm, leaving only a few forests to lumbermill later. Chopping the forests let me build up my infrastructure, and the cottages were invaluable in staying near the top in the tech race. As you conquer russia, turn most of its grassland cities into cottage farms. Similarly, Scandinavia should be turned into a windmill/cottage land. This will counter the negative effect being a giga-empire will have on your tech rate.

Finally, prioritize espionage buildings after research and cash buildings. You will eventually generate over 1000 espionage points/turn without any commerce investment, and when you're generating about 300-500 per turn you can supplement your research with tech stealing. Focus your espionage on one opponent - i found that England was the most advanced, followed by the Vikings. I stole 4-5 techs from England over the course of the game, including flight, artillery, and democracy. This will cement your tech lead and give you a jumpstart towards finishing the tech race. Most of the advanced civs are also on your kill list, so they won't actually be able to beat you to finishing the tech tree.

As to which techs to go for, I'd let military concerns and important wonders determine the path. Also, levees and factories (assembly plant) are a huge priority. I didn't actually prioritize Industrialism, but I didn't let it sit forever either.

Civics/Religion:
You'll get Christianity early, adopt it as your state religion. I'd also switch to monarchy/vassalage/slavery/organized religion at the beginning. Later, you'll want to switch to Occupation. Any other changes can wait until you have Cristo Redemptor, at which point you'll probably want representation, free speech or nationhood, emancipation, and possibly free religion. Do not adopt Bureaucracy, you have far too many cities.

Supporting your giga-empire:
In addition to lots of cottages, you'll also want to build or acquire both the Spiral Miniaret and the University of Sankore. Build christian buildings everywhere. Add the Sistine Chapel for good border control. In fact, your production is so amazing, you can probably build *every* wonder that becomes available during the game. Remember to be careful about accidentally winning a cultural victory. (For a similar reason, you'll likely have your choice of corporations - while sid's sushi company and creative construction are almost certainly *better* for you than the non-culture producing equivalents in terms of hammer/food production (marginally, and because of resources available), you might want to take the ones that *don't* produce culture. I grabbed the culture producers to maximize hammers/food... and i won a cultural victory instead).

Also note that your land has few happiness resources. You'll get Dye in france, gems and furs in russia, and silver in Scandinavia. Cultivate India (on respawn) and the Khmer as trading partners, and you'll probably desire their health resources eventually too. Eventually Spain and Portugal will also be good providers of these resources.

Endgame:
I had the 1870 condition done by ~1500 and the 1940 condition done by 1890. After that its just an end-run down the tech tree. Pop golden ages as often as you can manage. You'll probably want to swap Occupation for Viceroyalty at some point - i had 3 vassals (Portugal, Turkey, India) by the end of the game, and had had Portugal since sometime around 1300 or 1400.

Mxzs
Oct 17, 2007, 02:58 AM
@Mxzs: With the 3.13 patch you can also trade for resources you already have when trading with vassals, even if its not a corporate resource. (I just discovered this playing as Germany, when people kept offering me dye which i already had). So an alternate route for trading for spice would be vassalizing Khmer and India if/when it respawns.

Thanks! I've edited that insight into the post.

Greeneyedzombie
Oct 17, 2007, 03:33 AM
Nice write up about the dutch Mxzs.

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 17, 2007, 07:30 AM
I was just gonna write german but you beat me to it. Nice job, squirrelloid!

Rikard78
Oct 18, 2007, 08:16 AM
So here's my guide to mongolian uhv.



Nice write up! I just completed a Mongol UHV in Vanilla and I have a few thoughts on what works best...

Start
The start is absolutely crucial to achieve the first UHV of controlling China by 1300. For me, it's a no-brainer to settle on the Horse resource North East of your starting position. This gives you the ability straight away to upgrade the horse archers you've been given to Keshiks and let's you produce more asap! You could build one tile west of the horse, but typically I've found China to be so culturally strong that until you gain control of Beijing you're not going to get the horse. So settle Ulan-Ude there...

Immediately declare war on China (1st turn) and head south with 1-2 Keshiks. You should arrive at the gates of Baotou. It should then flip to you next turn..

Send your other settlers North and West. Not only does this get them out of the way from any stray chinese, it will also allow you to quickly hook up the iron and start building citys along the silk road
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Next, head south of Beijing (it's probably too strong for you to take immediately) with all of your keshiks and go for the weaker chinese cities. Wuhan should be razed immediately, which, when you approach Fuzhou and Chonqing will flip to you. Pick off any stray units and head back North. By this time you should have achieved goal number one!

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Take Beijing and now cocentrate all of your efforts in building the silk road west and more keshiks.

Econonomy and Tech

Your economy will be in the toilet for the whole game. Don't worry about that - you should get enough money from razing/capturing cities. If not, you can always trade away some of the lesser techs to get some more cash.

I agree with wr4th about the importance of engineering and calendar but I have one additional essential tech: drama. Once you've built all of those nice cities along the silk road, what' the quickest way to expand them and get you closer to the magic 12%? (I'm playing it on vanilla - I didn't know it got so much easier - 10%!!! with warlords :( ). Once I got drama, I killed all research and hoofed my culture to 80%..

Expansion strategy to get that 12%

This was a tricky one for me. Arabia was far to strong even for my Keshiks, India was going to take too long and Russia has the general winter...

I decided to build, build, build settlers. Then I built some more settlers (in the end I built 17 cities). My Keshiks were enough to take the Russian border cities who then sued for peace giving me some more cash. I then took a couple of Indian cities in Persia and let the culture slider do the rest.

I got one great artist in Beijing which I used to culture bomb kazan and that was about it.. Probably could have got to the 12% faster by prioritising another GA sooner...

You need to start early though though... There are not many turns for you to achive this after capturing china (only 30!!!)

So in 1500, I get my arch and then all I have to do is raze some more cities in the india sub-continent. By this time I had about 10 Keshiks ready to invade so it was pretty easy. I deliberately did not raze deli to avoid other citties flipping. No goo when you want to raze!!

Game ended very quickly after that in 1520! Here's the final map:
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Lokolus
Oct 23, 2007, 01:15 PM
Could anyone write an Aztec UHV? the one in the wiki is pre-Conquerors event and pre-BTS.

Zhuge_Liang
Oct 24, 2007, 07:22 AM
And also incan, maya and other CIV's that don't have a write up.

Squirrelloid
Oct 24, 2007, 10:41 AM
Well, I really hate playing Civs that make it into the industrial/modern eras because turns take forever, or i'd probably have written some of those. However, I have done the Mayans...

Maya UHV
You've got a pretty tight UHV, but a UP which will help you out enormously. If you play viceroy you can seriously out-tech the europeans to gunpowder. If you're sensible and play monarch you'll find the europeans are ahead in tech when they reach you.

Early Game:
Found Tikal on the spot and send the other settler to found Tenochtitlan above the dye on a hill. Tenochtitlan should immediately build a monument so it will get the stone hooked up for the Temple. Your tech path should grab Sailing/Mathematics/CoL in some order (it doesn't really matter) followed by Calendar, and Tenochtitlan should start building the Temple of Kulkulcan no later than when you start researching Calendar. Once Tenochtitlan starts the Temple, you should chop all forests next to Tenochtitlan (mining as appropriate), and can chop most of the others - i'd leave one north of the mountain to your north and the one on the game to the west. This will be important for when the Aztecs spawn.

When Calendar finishes you'll get to see the year. Chances are you'll be pretty close to 600. I've done the Mayan start about 4 times with this research path, in 3 i made it to Calendar in time, and the last was 610AD. So some focus on commerce in tiles used by your cities is a good idea, because it really is that tight. If you missed, start over - its not that painful. The Temple should finish shortly after Calendar - i'm usually done by 750AD - which is plenty of time. Enjoy your golden age, and finish any other infrastructure you need. You'll also need a military force - archers are the best since there will be tons of dog soldiers from the north. For this reason, after Calendar you should grab archery next, followed by Bronzeworking for Slavery.

Until the Aztecs spawn, you shouldn't found any other cities in north america. Any close (and easily defended) cities will also try to flip to the Aztecs, which is bad. However, settlers and your UU Holkan (req:Bronzeworking) can travel through jungle, so you might decide to colonize venezuela, colombia, and brazil (but i haven't done so). Shortly before the Aztecs spawn the wave of native and barbarians slows down; move all your forces south of the dye near Tenochtitlan. The Aztecs will spawn near a forest, and move into the forest and sit there. Since those forests are next to Tenochtitlan, they won't actually make any move to take the city. Wait ~10 turns to make sure your units won't change sides, then send your army and destroy them.

After the Aztecs its time to expand. You'll want to expand up into the US heartland and to its West Coast - i like to found (approximately - Mayan names will be different) Los Angeles, Seattle, Santa Fe, I think its ~ houston (grabs the corn and spice just outside Tenochtitlan, but also gets the fish near the New Orleans spot), and somewhere near Chicago (make sure you get the iron). In fact, i'd found up near the iron first thing after the Aztecs, because you'll need it for military units. These will ensure you have access to coal, iron, marble, oil, and uranium (not that you'll get *that* far). This is far enough west that America won't flip your cities.

Now you just have to survive the european onslaught. Expect them in the mid 1400s. Quite honestly, trade for engineering as quickly as possible so you can build pikemen (probably from your *second* european contact, but I had the Persians settle in SAm in the game i played to completion, and they aren't a colonial power so we could be friends from the get-go, and they were in SAm centuries before the europeans found me, so i traded for engineering shortly before europeans arrived). Until then, garrison your strongest unit (probably longbows) in Tikal in large numbers. They'll probably get 2 cannon, a musketman, 2 knights, and 2 pikemen near Tikal. Sit tight, weather the attack, and make peace as soon as they get bored. Make friendly with the europeans, adopt their religion when it spreads to you. Shortly before you win your UHV, America will spawn. Make friendly with them too. You're a lover, not a fighter - let the europeans squabble amongst themselves and leave your cities alone.

Rhye
Oct 28, 2007, 03:21 PM
i've added the new ones to the wiki.
Strange how now we've got 4 Mayan guides and no one for Portugal, Inca, Turkey and America

Squirrelloid
Oct 29, 2007, 12:35 PM
i've added the new ones to the wiki.
Strange how now we've got 4 Mayan guides and no one for Portugal, Inca, Turkey and America

Working on the Inca... I want to win on Monarch before i make a strategy guide.

America... hmm... i came really close (1 turn off goal 3). It didn't actually strike me as being hard in the way that a strategy guide would help with. Its mostly a matter of watching your time, and balancing expansion/infrastructure/military. Ie, basic civIV skills on a deadline. I don't even know what i'd write for a guide - nothing I did seemed especially unusual.

Turkey is really easy. The only benefit i can see to a guide is someone can say "here's the spots you need to put cities to control the Balkans". For the most part that game plays itself. (I had 5 civs offer to be my vassals immediately upon respawn or meeting me. 3 vassals is almost too easy).

Haven't played Portugal yet.

And sorry, someone specifically requested a Mayan guide, so I wrote it. (Not exactly a civ that felt like it really needed a guide, outside of the "wait for the Aztecs before expanding too much" bit).

Wessel V1
Nov 03, 2007, 04:15 AM
Greece strategy: Emperor.

The first game I wanted to start with Greece, i started to research priesthood but 10 turns after I build my first city, India completed the Oracle, even before I researched Priesthood. So I started the next game with India.

NOTE: I don't know if this is a real strategy guide, because it had to start with another civ, but I won without cheating.

The first thing you have to do is moving your settler as quick as possible to Europe, and build Byzantium. Then I started to build a worker, while researching Fishing. Then build a mine. After you created your worker, you have to wait 2 turns (build a monument, doesn't matter). Switch production to the work boat. Don't let the city grow before you complete your workboat. Place it on a fish resource and let the city grow to size 2. The city won't be razed then.
The worker: After you build the mine the worker is useless. Move it to the tile west of Athens. A few turns later, Greece will spawn. Declare war. Otherwise you won't get the worker.

Then you switch to Greece. The phalanxes can conquer Kolhapur. It will collapse before you reach it. India is gone. Move 2 phalanxes to the barbarian city. Don't attack before it has grown to size 2. Then you can conquer it. One warrior can attack the worker, the other one has to go to the tribal villages, to get some gold if you are lucky.

Research path: Priesthood -> Masonry -> Animal Husbandry (sheep and horses). Remember: the AI has started researching archery, don't forget to switch.
Athenae has to build a work boat, Kolhapur the Colossus. After you have completed your work boat, build the Temple of Artemis. After you research Priesthood you can switch to the Oracle. Athenae will grow very quick to size 4, and your 3 workers can build mines. I completed the Oracle in 900 BC, the Colossus in 590 BC and the Temple of Artemis in 570 BC.

After you finish the Oracle, you have to choose a tech. There are many tempting options: Machinery, very very very expensive, and needed to research Optics. Aesthetics (?) to research Drama and Literature. Much cheaper then Machinery, but just as important. Final option: Iron working, to discover the Iron source near Athenae, for a even higher production level, to research the compass and to defend against the Romans.

I saved before I had to choose. I think this is one of the most important parts of the UHV, so think about it. I've chosen option 2. Babylonia will go the same way so you have to beat them. And: You can start building the Parthenon. The building goal won't be very hard to achieve.

After you discover Animal Husbandry, switch to Literature, to build the Leaning tower and the Great Library. They are very useful, the leaning tower because of the 100% GP bonus (was already 200% with the Parthenon and the Greek UP), the Great Library gives you 2 scientists, (GP rate and research). The next one could be Iron Working, to defend against the Romans. They will attack your fishing boats, but don't worry. Kolhapur and Athenae can build a trireme every 4 turns. Place them near your fishing boats. The Romans will attack them, but you have the defense bonus, so they will lose. They only have 5, maybe 7 boats. You can stop the landunits with your Phalanxes and Spearman. Use the same strategy to stop the barbarians: Block the entrance with a spearman and a phalanx, that should be enough to stop 80%. Egypt will also declare war, but they don't have ANY troops to attack. Peace Treaty and Meditation will make him happy.

GP: Because you control some worldwonders, many Great Persons will be born, normally Artists and Prophets, sometimes a Merchant. The Merchants should be placed in Athenae to use all mines, the Artists in Hattusas (sometimes it even flips to Babylonia!) or to discover monarchy or music and the prophets to research meditation and caste system or to settle in a city.

We have jumped to 600 AD. The Roman War should be finished, maybe not because you want to conquer some cities when the European Civs spawn. This was the point where my Golden Age started. Use it to research the Compass -> Machinery (if you haven't chosen this tech when you created the Oracle) -> Optics. In my game, Carthage had already almost researched Machinery AND the Compass, so there was a chance I would be too late. I decided to put everything into research: Pacifism, Caste System, cities build Research.
In my game, Egypt built the Apostolic Palace. He liked me, and I decided to vote for him. He was quite pleased with that, so he decided to stop every single war against me. Sorry Saladin, Ramesses is always right.

But you haven't won yet. Remember to have some spearman near Hattusas, because the Arabians will come and attack you. Don't worry about them too much: Pacifism doesn't allow large armies, and Babylonia and Persia will help you to defeat Arabia.

Tech trades: When you want to trade some techs, you will discover it isn't very easy to make a deal. But sometimes you just have to. Archery, Meditation, Agriculture, Monarchy and Iron Working: these are the techs you want to buy. Agriculture and Iron Working against Philosophy and Aesthetics is a good deal, for example.

I was lucky. Hannibal didn't want to research Optics. Upgrade your Triremes to Caravels, build some to destroy Independent Triremes and travel south. This is the quickest way to circumnavigate (if Maya is destroyed).

I hope this guide will help you, good luck everyone:goodjob:

AnotherPacifist
Nov 03, 2007, 03:14 PM
Added Portugal and Turkey pacifist strategies to the wiki. :traderoute: :culture: :deal: :sheep: :clap:

Norton II
Nov 04, 2007, 01:23 AM
By following this strategy, it’s possible to achieve all of England’s UHV conditions before 1700 on Monarch. In my last game, I did so in 1645 and could’ve done it one turn earlier if I hadn’t been careless.

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First, let’s consider the conditions:
1. Be the first to circumnavigate the globe. No challenge here—you can even research Calendar before beelining Optics. The AI puts zero priority on circumnavigation and just stumbles into it eventually if you don’t do it first.
2. Settle at least three cities on every continent. This one’s a little tougher, especially if you want the good city sites. In particular, there aren’t many decent spots in Asia or Africa, so if you don’t want junk cities in the tundra or desert, you need to move relatively quickly.
3. Be the first to enter the Industrial and Modern Ages. This isn’t too difficult, but if you want to do it as quickly as possible, you really have to focus. Also, this goal is in conflict with the second goal since your tech costs increase as your civ gets larger.

Thus, if you want to win as early as possible, you must focus completely on your UHV goals, ignoring anything that doesn’t help your research or your expansion. In particular:
1. No wonders. For UHV purposes, there’s not a single wonder that’s worth the cost in hammers or turns, and you shouldn’t pop any Great Engineers, either—most of your specialists should be scientists and merchants.
2. No vassals. Vassals cost money. Given the huge maintenance and upkeep costs you’ll have to pay anyway, why force your science slider down even farther?
3. No unnecessary buildings. Any building that doesn’t speed up your research, improve your economy, or let you assign or feed more specialists shouldn’t be built.
4. Minimal military, and no conquests. You should have enough units to keep the sheeple from wetting themselves and to defend your African and American colonies from natives armed with dry grass. Anything more than that will slow you down. As for conquests, what’s the point? You need to settle three cities on each continent. Conquered cities just increase your maintenance and upkeep and decrease your stability.

So now that you know what you shouldn’t do, let’s discuss what you should do.

Opening Moves (before Astronomy):

Settle London, Plymouth, Manchester, and Dublin (Dublin should be 1 W of the sheep to claim all the land tiles and both fish). Revolt immediately to HR and slavery. You can also revolt to OR and vassalage—the extra anarchy turn won’t hurt much at this point, and OR may help if Christianity doesn’t spread quickly. Beeline Astronomy. The Vikings usually have Inverness; if they declare when it flips, no big deal—you’ll usually (though not always) get some extra units, and they might sink one of your galleys. In my games, they don’t even pillage my fishing boats!When your workers show up, have them improve all the resource tiles, starting with the ones near London. Your two workboats should go to the fish tiles near Manchester and Inverness.

London, Manchester, and Inverness should whip libraries and markets ASAP, but Manchester should whip a worker first, Inverness should whip a granary first, and both cities should build harbors as well (but not London—no seafood tiles). Have Plymouth whip a workboat, library, and harbor, then whatever you want. Have Dublin whip a worker first, then a library, two workboats, a market, and a harbor (build the workboats before the library if Christianity spreads to Dublin early enough).

As soon as Christianity comes in, convert. Squeeze in missionaries to get it to all five cities if necessary. Every city except Plymouth should assign its first two citizens to food tiles, then its next two as scientists once libraries are built. Plymouth should work the crabs and the stone, then assign two scientists.When Optics comes in, start caravels in the first two cities to finish their current builds. After you’ve got your libs, markets, and caravels, you can start settlers in London, Manchester, and Inverness (also be sure to assign merchants once you’re working enough food tiles). Time the settlers to finish one turn after Astronomy, whipping them if necessary. As long as every city has two scientists whenever it can, you should have Astronomy in 1190.

During this time, you should generate two Great People. The first one will almost certainly be a GS; use him to lightbulb Paper. If the next one is a GS (hopefully it will be), lightbulb Philosophy after trading for Meditation (you might have to research it; if so, it’ll only take one turn). If it’s a GM, you can either lightbulb Guilds or settle him in Dublin. Once you have Philosophy and Astronomy, or a little after if you want to get the settlers out first, revolt to pacifism and resettlement. Upgrade at least one galley to a galleon (trade for the cash if necessary), load your settlers the following turn, and set off for Asia. Upgrade the other two ASAP.

Research and Overseas Expansion

Your galleon should head for Singapore, which will be unclaimed by Khmer at this point (about 1300). Drop off one settler there, then take the other two over to the Philippines and settle two cities there—one in the north, one in the south. Don’t bother with India; any cities you settle there will flip if India respawns. Each of these cities should whip a longbow first, then a library, then a courthouse (courthouses can come first if Christianity spreads fast enough), then markets, etc. Singapore should whip a workboat after its borders pop. Once your workers finish improving Britain, send three of them in a galleon to your Asian settlements.

Back home, London, Manchester, and Inverness should follow this build order, whipping every so often (though you shouldn’t abuse the whip—you need those specialists): observatory, crossbow, settler, university, crossbow, settler, crossbow, settler, settler. You can deviate from this order to get the last settlers out faster if needed, or build something between the last two settlers to let your population grow back. Meanwhile, Dublin should build a grocer and a Royal Exchange once you have Guilds and Banking, followed by the science buildings, a temple, a lighthouse, and a courthouse.

Research order: Civil Service, Education, Nationalism, Constitution, Printing Press, Scientific Method, Physics, Electricity, Radio. Lightbulb any of these techs that you can; also lightbulb Banking with a GM if possible. Once you have Constitution, switch to representation and bureaucracy. I finished Radio in 1635.

There are plenty of places you can settle, but here are the sites I chose and the order in which I settled them:

Africa: Port Nolloth, Cape Town, Durban (send crossbows first, ditto for the Americas)—1430-1435
North America: St. John, New York, Annapolis—1530-1535
South America: Georgetown, 3 W of Georgetown, near the eastern tip of the continent, 2 N of the gems—1590-1595
Australia/Oceania: Wellington, Christchurch, Sydney. I could have founded one more city in New Zealand, but I was careless and had already moved the galleon toward Australia when I realized this. Sydney was settled in 1645.

Your cities should start with workers or workboats, then build libraries, courthouses, and markets (you’ll probably win before your American and Australian cities build all that stuff, though).

As mentioned before, you’ll generate a fair number of Great People, mostly merchants and scientists. You should use them to lightbulb useful techs—i.e., anything along the tech path mentioned above, or anything that helps your economy. If they can’t lightbulb anything useful, either settle them or build academies.

As far as foreign relations go, you don’t need to suck up to everyone a whole lot—just don’t needlessly antagonize anyone, and you should be fine. Sign open borders whenever you can, give in to tribute demands and requests for help as long as they’re remotely within reason (e.g. don’t give away Astronomy the turn you discover it), and just generally keep the other Christian civs pleased or cautious if possible. Most of the time, you won’t run into anything worse than a phony war with a distant civ.

Potential Problems:

1. Plague. England has a pretty high health surplus, especially after you make a few trades and grab a few resources overseas, so the plague might not hit you at all. If it does, it shouldn’t last long. If you didn’t get extra units earlier, you might have to whip a few, but other than that it won’t hurt you very much.
2. War. As I mentioned above, you may have the occasional phony war, but rarely anything else. If you do end up in a serious war before your last settlers are on the way to Australia, you can probably forget winning before 1700. Hasn’t happened to me yet, though, so I can’t say for sure.
3. Christianity spreading late. Sometimes, Christianity takes its time spreading to you. If you don’t have it by 1100 or so, maybe earlier, it’s probably best to restart—you need those extra GPs from pacifism.
4. World Congresses. If a Congress convenes before you win, you might get screwed out of a city or two. If you’re close to victory, just defy the Congress and hope you don’t get dogpiled (I didn’t).

Other Stuff:
-Assign as many specialists as you can. In most cities, assign scientists first, then merchants, then others if you have enough food. Dublin’s a good money city, so after Astronomy, start with merchants there.
-In Africa and the Americas, you might consider whipping an extra crossbow to protect your workers.
-It might be better to go for Constitution before Education, provided you can still get Education before the second batch of settlers is done. I haven’t tested it yet, though.
-If you get the conquerors event, gift the units to the Aztecs or Inca so they don't cost you money.

AnotherPacifist
Nov 04, 2007, 03:47 AM
Thanks norton II for the English write up. I always wondered how to win a little earlier when I replayed the English. 4 comments:
About the free units in the Americas, wouldn't it be better to just move them up closer to your future cities so that you don't have to bring them from home, instead of giving them away free?
And the Philippines, well, half the time Japan has already founded Satsuma at the northern tip, and India doesn't always flip your eastern Indian city (if you found yours AFTER they spawn).
Did you ever give your poorly performing cities to anybody (to save on the science cost)?
Is your score higher if you win in 1700 without vassals or wonders? (I built so many wonders and had 2 vassals)

Norton II
Nov 04, 2007, 12:17 PM
Thanks norton II for the English write up. I always wondered how to win a little earlier when I replayed the English. 4 comments:
About the free units in the Americas, wouldn't it be better to just move them up closer to your future cities so that you don't have to bring them from home, instead of giving them away free?

It could be. I gave them away last time so I wouldn't have to pay for them, but it could definitely help you achieve the 2nd UHV condition earlier. For that matter, the GA might boost your research enough to get you to the MA faster as well. I'll have to test it.

And the Philippines, well, half the time Japan has already founded Satsuma at the northern tip, and India doesn't always flip your eastern Indian city (if you found yours AFTER they spawn).

I've never seen Satsuma founded there in 1310-20 (about the earliest you can get there). As for India, other civs might settle there before they spawn, or they might not spawn at all. I just avoid the issue by going for Singapore and the Philippines early.

Did you ever give your poorly performing cities to anybody (to save on the science cost)?

No. In my last game (the one I posted), I got to the MA one turn before founding any cities in Australia, and in the one before that (pre-patch), I achieved both goals at about the same time.

Is your score higher if you win in 1700 without vassals or wonders? (I built so many wonders and had 2 vassals)

Hard to say for sure, but I don't think so. My earliest win didn't get the highest score.

Rhye
Nov 05, 2007, 08:49 AM
added. cheers

Wessel V1
Nov 05, 2007, 12:43 PM
Thanks for adding:) The main thing in the guide was that I started with India and then I switched to Greece. Sorry I should have said that more clearly (Byzantium -> Byzantium tile) in the guide:lol:
The strategy doesn't work if you start with Greece.

Rikard78
Nov 09, 2007, 03:26 AM
Rhye, you have mali already?

there's a guide already, could possibly be updated

I'm going to have another shot at this later today. The guide could do with updating as the strategy isn't very effective for vanilla - you don't have the extra 10% from mint. I'm convinced that to succeed you need more cities and south africa with all those resources looks a good bet..

LtCowprod
Nov 30, 2007, 08:14 AM
Here's an updated Roman strategy for BtS 1.09 on Monarch.

Opening Moves

Settle Rome on the spot and revolt to slavery immediately. One settler should go south to found Pompeii (1S of Pigs). The other settler, accompanied by an archer, will head north to found Lugdinum in France (1E of Horses). Don't bother attacking Mediolanum since it will flip in a few turns. Instead load the Praetorians on the galleys and wait for the Pompeii canal to reach Greece.

Once your boats are at Greece's borders trade techs and declare war. Make sure you can reach Athens the same turn however, as they quite possibly have naval units. You should be able to attack from the sea losing only one, maybe two Praetorians. That's fine since with any luck you will have captured at least one worker.... ship him over to Pompeii in exchange for an archer.

After Greece has been properly dealt with heal the army and rendezvous on Carthage's borders, but don't attack. Regardless to what you can see Carthage has more than likely founded it's second city now. You can rest assured the cavalry are waiting there so the best bet is to wait for reinforcements first.


Build Orders

Rome: Trireme -> Praetorian -> Spearman -> Praetorian
Pompeii: Galley -> Spearman -> Monument -> Workboat -> Settler
Mediolanum: Scout -> Settler -> Archer -> Settler
Athens: Great Light -> Great Wall
Lugdinum: (anything until size 2) -> Settler


With your inital workers chop and mine the iron, followed by the marble, and then chop the forested hills tiles. After the inital military build up is finished you should move the workers to Mediolanum to chop the forests and farm the Wheat. You want that first settler out quick.

Research Agriculture if you can't trade for it and then beeline Construction through Maths. You will need all three of these techs to meet the first two UHV goals. The first for farms to build settlers, and the latter two for Ampitheatres, Aqueducts, and wonders. Once those are out of the way you can research anything. Theology is a decent option but bear in mind the holy city will probably end up somewhere in France (easily conquered later). Code of Laws or Monarchy are both beneficial as well if you can't trade for them.

Whip everything as soon as you can and stage your troops off Carthages border. When the invasion force is ready declare war, again trading techs first if possible. Once Carthage has been eliminated pick up an archer garrison and then send everyone to Lugdinum to wipe out the Celts and Barbs. You would be wise to leave a spearman behind to deal with the mounted barbs coming soon.

Carthage and Athens are good production centers and should be building wonders almost exclusively. The most crucial of those are the Colossus, Temple of Artemis, Great Light, and the Great Wall. Also Moai Statues if it can be built in Carthage with enough time to finish the other buildings.

When your troops arrive in Lugdinum send them West to capture Bordeaux (I can't remember the Celtic name). You now need to settle 5 more cities. One each in Carthage, France, England and two in Spaine. Only in Carthage are you certain to keep the city so settle it first. The others are a guaranteed loss... either settle them late or whip them heavily for military. With the exception of Lugdinum you probably shouldn't improve any land either. Just chop forests and whip military - nothing else.

You will generally have 4 cities size 5 or more. Those being Athens, Pompeii, Carthago, and Rome. Build the required buildings in those cities and road between Pompeii (everything else is connected by sea). If you can't make the mark you can always just whip the cities to at least size 4 ... however cheesy that may be.

With the two hard goals and the Great Wall you can simply cruise to the finish. The wall won't stop the barbs invading Carthage though. You will need to garrison those cities with at least two spears and an archer. If you didn't get the Great Wall research Engineering for Castles and Pikemen, and Feudalism for Longbows. You should probably build the Temple of Kulkulkan either way since spearmen don't fair so well against camel archers.

Now it's time to enjoy the ride as your empire gets stripped to the boot.... no pun intended - seriously.

redazncommieDXP
Jan 15, 2008, 06:55 AM
I was reading the strategy wiki, and there was something that confused me. Here's the link. http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-chinese-strategy#toc2

The passage I'm referring to tells me to change my workers to scientists (or merchants or artists) as they grow past the happy limit. "This, in short, is how to handle the whip in food-rich cities. Build something until the city reaches its happy limit, then (probably) switch to a worker or settler. Depending on how unhappy the city is, you may either whip that or the next build. Rinse and repeat. On growth, hire specialists."

What I don't understand is how hiring these specialists has anything to do with the happy limit of my cities, or unhappiness in general. It seems they just further lower the hammer-gold-food output of my cities and slow down my production.

LtCowprod
Jan 15, 2008, 07:42 AM
Every time you whip the population you create an extra unhappy face for a given duration. Optimally the city will be growing back to its original size before this anger wears off. So when left unchecked the city will just keep growing beyond the limit and you have an unhappy city.

Instead of letting it grow back so fast you hire specialists to consume most but not all of the excess food used for growth. Then when the pop nears the happy cap you simply switch production to a settler or worker which stops growth and when the anger fully wears off you can fire or whip the specialists.

musicfreak
Jan 15, 2008, 09:59 AM
I was reading the strategy wiki, and there was something that confused me. Here's the link. http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-chinese-strategy#toc2

The passage I'm referring to tells me to change my workers to scientists (or merchants or artists) as they grow past the happy limit. "This, in short, is how to handle the whip in food-rich cities. Build something until the city reaches its happy limit, then (probably) switch to a worker or settler. Depending on how unhappy the city is, you may either whip that or the next build. Rinse and repeat. On growth, hire specialists."

What I don't understand is how hiring these specialists has anything to do with the happy limit of my cities, or unhappiness in general. It seems they just further lower the hammer-gold-food output of my cities and slow down my production.
Basically you want to keep the city from growing if it has reached its happiness limit. It's something I do on almost every game (except where I can afford a little unhappiness in my cities). Better to change a worker to a specialist beforehand than to an unhappy citizen, right?

Ryry
Jan 16, 2008, 08:37 PM
America BTS Monarch

I finally got the American UHV. I started as Mali. I was actually going for the Mali UHV, but realized I was no where close to getting it around 1400 or so, (I lost a city to Impi, other probs), so I rode it out and flipped to America.

It is hard to give an exact America strategy because the starts can be so different, but assuming you do not "cheat", you will probably get a start like mine. England and France were in the USA in their usual places (France in NE Canada and New Orleans, and England on the East Coast... although the French may also have had Savannah... can't remember). But, I got lucky in that there was no super-power (often Germany is a huge super-power), and England AND France were weak. France actually collapsed before I had to declare war for N.O. (Savannah flipped).... and England collapsed pretty quick.

So, here are some generic suggestions:
1) Get a decent start. If you see on start that England is really powerful AND they already have a city on the West Coast, give it up. Or if Germany is way ahead in tech, or whatever. America is hard. With a bad starting position it is just a waste of time.
2) You will get extra units one turn after the start (as most of you know) when the cities flip. Take out England first. So....
3) If it looks safe, send 1 galleon immediately around Africa and to Asia to make contact with all the non-Euro civs, good chances for tech trades there. Move 1 settler and 1 rifle toward Chicago and settle it (between the two cornfields). This will be an awesome city for you. Lots of forest to chop and good cottage spam, and it will grow super quick. Move the missionary to Washington and found Christianity. Turtle the other settlers in Washington for the moment. Move all military units north to take out England. I usually adopt Slavery and Representation and Organized religion and Occupation. I think slavery and occupation are a must.
4) Bee-line for democracy. Take physics if someone offers it or you can buy it. Airships help a lot, both in softening up cities, and they help out your navy. You'll never be able to kill an English frigate or SoL without some air attacks. (The English ships have too many promotions).
5) If the English have "York-Factory" I would raze it, but it is kind of a 50/50 thing. But if you are successful you will have soooooo many cities, and York-Factory sucks.
6) You made need to consider Geo-politics. Depending on the world set up, and how long it is taking you to kick the English out, you might stop your war with them but leave them one city. You'll have to take it out later, but if you leave only one city, and it is a small one (in tundra, either a York-Factory or in Newfoundland), it will not grow much, and they will not really re-inforce it. Otherwise, kick England out and then go for France. Workers should build lots of mines and factorys around Washington and NY for future wonder building. And leave some forest for chopping. Chop them once you start the statue of liberty. Any GP's should focus on Engineers cause they can rush your wonders.
7) Once you are confident that the English or French are not the threat to the middle of the continent, send out the settlers to found cities in the middle. It'll depend on your exact situation, but you'll see the good spots. There is gold in the north if you need it, and settling a Sante Fe or Houston is good for the oil. Try to keep your cities well spaced out. You want to settle as few as possible. Assuming there is no one on the west coast save one settler to found either San Fran or Vancouver as soon as possible. It is a real pain to get units over there if you have to take out someone.
8) If there is someone on the west coast already, consider taking central america (often to can get the independent city Chic Izeta (something) in a World Congress), and building a fort to make a Panama Canal.). Dog Soldiers will be a pain in the middle of the USA and in N.O., but on the west coast they are usually not a problem. Anyway, you do not have to develop the west coast right away, just get a city to block others, so you can hunker down in the city for a while. (no workers or improvements for the Dog Soldiers to plunder, and a rifleman in the city can easily hold off three dog soldiers per turn)
9) Keep slavery for a long time, certianly until you finish the pentagon. Try to get a settler into the Caribean to block the Spanish there. If you need to take out the Spanish in Central America or Carib, don't neglect Galleons.
10) If you bee-line all the techs for the Statue, the Pentagon and The UN you should be OK on those. A good tactic is to keep the Euros at war with each other as much as possible, to stop them from building any of them. So watch where the Euros are in tech, and if one offers to got to war against another one, and asks you along, and it looks like they are not a threat, well take it (example, Russia asks you to fight Germany, and Germany already has Assembly Line.....)
11) The hardest thing is getting the Euros out of N and C America. If you can get that you are probably going to make it, though you can lose out in the wonders race by a few turns, so save a lot, in case you miss the Pentagon by one turn, you can always reload and whip it.
12) Once you have the Pentagon and the Euros are out of the Americas, you can change civs. It will kind of depend on your situation (have a lot of vassals, then Vassalage)....

The final thing is to get the 10 oil resourses. Suggestions:
1) If they offer, take Egypt as a vassal. If they don't, keep asking them! Egypt makes a great jumping off point for an invasion of Arabia for the oil.
2) Start planning to invade Arabia (and Turkey probably), in 1900. You need a good navy, and flight. You can build Galleons in 1900 and upgrade them later.
Once you get flight, build some airports and start flying in units to Egypt. Get a naval force ready to take at least 12 units by sea.
3) There is oil in the ocean in indonesia (Borneo?). Get some workers and chop a space next to the oil for a settler. Settle there and build up the island. Put some navy and strong units there if Japan is strong. If not you may risk it. You don't need to take the oil until the last moment.
4) Run a settler up to North Alaska and get the oil there, you can also get gold.
5) Usually I cannot get Spain to let me open border into the med, so I have to go around Africa to transport troops to Arabia. I like Marines for naval assaults and paratroopers to airlift into Egypt. I never really used paratroopers until I played America. But if you can get 3-5 of them in one city and then air-drop them behind the enemy onto a nice plot of land--say a plantation or an iron mine-- it can be quite useful. If you get radio and bombers you can use less artillery, otherwise you'll need that too. Probably the Arabs, if not already, will capitulate to the Turks once you start taking their cities. So you will need to declare war on Turkey. One idea is to try to get the Arabs to capitulate to you first. You will need to take out the Turks to get all the oil, so having Egypt and Arabia on your side will help a lot. Plus, it is more cities to fly in support to. In my game (and so I assume this is true) I did not have to have the oil in my territory, it counted the oil I had in Arabia which was my vassal. And, as soon as you get enough oil, you win. You do not have to wait until 2000.

Oh, and I gift techs to Egypt and Arabia to build them up so their armies are actually useful. With the oil in America (incl in the gulf of Mexico and Alaska), the oil in Borneo, and all the mid-east oil you should get 10.

Comments?

Ryry

AnotherPacifist
Jan 16, 2008, 09:41 PM
Ryry, I disagree about organized religion in Monarch mode. You need your great engineer quickly, and the best way to get it is Mercantilism and Pacifism (1 free specialist and 100% great person generation). Whipping is good, but I find that both the UN and Pentagon can be done with 1 engineer, while you really need to have the Statue covered by a GE for half its hammers. You should not whip Washington at all since instead of Occupation you should use bureaucracy. (There's actually minimal badness from city occupation since you have time to capture those cities one by one). I usually generate the GE in New York (which is already big) and save 1 for the Pentagon later.

Ryry
Jan 17, 2008, 11:34 AM
Sorry, instead of Occupation use Bureaucracy?

I like slavery because growth is really fast. In fact sometimes you "over grow" becuase of immigrant from the old world, and you need to trim down a city to get out the unhappiness. Good way to convert excess population to useful buildings or units.

I agree the that the Statue of Libertry is the hardest of the three. I usually save some forest around Washington, when I get democracy, Washington builds the statue. Chop the forest. GE from NY to get about 1/2 the hammers as you said. In a pinch you can whip it the last 2 or 3 turns. But I try to avoid that. Whipping is better for normal buildings and units.

Ryry

AnotherPacifist
Jan 17, 2008, 06:02 PM
Sorry, instead of Occupation use Bureaucracy?

I like slavery because growth is really fast. In fact sometimes you "over grow" because of immigrant from the old world, and you need to trim down a city to get out the unhappiness. Good way to convert excess population to useful buildings or units.

I agree the that the Statue of Liberty is the hardest of the three. I usually save some forest around Washington, when I get democracy, Washington builds the statue. Chop the forest. GE from NY to get about 1/2 the hammers as you said. In a pinch you can whip it the last 2 or 3 turns. But I try to avoid that. Whipping is better for normal buildings and units.


Yes, I meant to save a move, switch to bureaucracy, representation, pacifism and mercantilism, commonwealth and serfdom the first move. There's is so much unimproved land that until you get steam power you need the 50% speed that serfdom gives you (even if it's not historically correct). To get to Occupation (high cost) you have to waste a 4th move of anarchy, and you need the money after you've upgraded your musketmen/pikemen to riflemen, hence I use the least expensive option for expansion. Later once I've built the Statue and saved up a great engineer (and when population is an issue), and have more cities to work with, I switch to free trade and free religion and hopefully I will have several monasteries to spread those religions around. I don't think I've once used slavery (since Chicago has so many trees to chop and Phoenix or Grand Forks have so many hills around I don't lack hammers). For happiness I try to get those squirrels up north ASAP even if I don't work those tiles. Mexico also has silver so as they either vassalize to me or if they're nonexistent I conquer my way down south for silver and dye.

I also save those trees around Washington, but only to build lumbermills all around it. When I have the coal I chop that tree and build mine. Helps with health.

I guess you're more a chop and whip person, and I'm a conservator. :lol:

Ryry
Jan 17, 2008, 06:40 PM
You civics idea is very interesting..... I still like Slavery for the USA, but other than that.... the commonwealth instead of occupation is probably the way to go actually. I am not sure about Pacifism though, since you have to declare war on England, France and probably Spain or Aztec (or both).

Ryry

Zdarg
Jan 21, 2008, 03:43 AM
1) If they offer, take Egypt as a vassal. If they don't, keep asking them! Egypt makes a great jumping off point for an invasion of Arabia for the oil.
You don't need a vassal to airlift troops into foreign city, open borders are enough.

Fierabras
Mar 15, 2008, 08:36 AM
Continued from another thread:

We're getting off topic here but I think instead of Pompeii if you build a city in Illyria (near the copper but not too north so Germany can't flip it) it will be much more productive and get more culture up north before Germany spawns.

I only founded Pompeii to get to Greece fast. When you found a city in Illyria (Salonae, 1N of the copper seems like a good spot), how do you move your units? Do you take Carthage first and sail around Sicily to get to Greece? Lately I noticed Carthage is more difficult to take first and in my game I crushed Greece first and waited with my praetorians in the galleys on the west coast of Sicily for the right moment to attack amphibiously. This way I also got my 2 cities in North-Africa (Carthago and Hippo).

AnotherPacifist
Mar 15, 2008, 09:55 AM
I only founded Pompeii to get to Greece fast. When you found a city in Illyria (Salonae, 1N of the copper seems like a good spot), how do you move your units? Do you take Carthage first and sail around Sicily to get to Greece? Lately I noticed Carthage is more difficult to take first and in my game I crushed Greece first and waited with my praetorians in the galleys on the west coast of Sicily for the right moment to attack amphibiously. This way I also got my 2 cities in North-Africa (Carthago and Hippo).

Yes, it seems that those Carthaginian units are staying inside Carthage more. In my game they happened just to have 3 archers in Carthage so I razed it. Then went to Greece. Only later did I found Pompeii and the 2 north African cities.