I was thinking about the civs that are born somewhat late in the game, like the spanish or french. In my last game, Mediolanum had a great culture, spreading into the classical territory of France. I gave Paris to the french, but it culture was so low that they didn´t have enough space in their country and started putting cities in Romania. I was thinking that giving them a great artist (or a toned down version of it) so they could create a bigger area under their control where they can put down their cities, and also allowing them to subvert near culturally weak cities, in addition to the flip system. So if you don´t give them the cities, they will be culturally surrounded and with revolts, due to the high percentage of foreigners. Perhaps this can be done in another way, such as give a instant cultural bonus to the capital of the new civs, but I think this will be historically better as there will be a reason for the cities wanting to flip, because of the high number of citizens of another civilization. I´ll see if I can try this in a game, but I think it is a very good idea, worth of giving it a try.

I definately think the new civ's cities should all start with some culture, especially their capital.
An idea that came to mind, which I don't necessarily think is better than simply giving newborn civs culture to start with, is that each new civ starts with a special Great Person, the Great Founder, which can either discover one tech, or do a special action I don't have a name for, which gives a city +1000:culture:, and Barracks, and one other random improvement, or something like that. Just a thought. :)

It might not be a bad idea to tie this into their unique traits. Just food for thought.

AI usually doesn't settle in plots already culturally owned. It would probably cause the opposite effect

Interesting... Thanks Rhye!

Still, a great leader of some sort would be good, or a "Great Founder".
On the other hand, other starting traits (techs, UPs, civ modifiers) would need to be altered.

This is a cool idea. Late civs could spawn with a great person, that would give them a much needed boost. And this is historically correct too. For instance the Monglos could spawn with a great general representing Genghis Khan.

This is a cool idea. Late civs could spawn with a great person, that would give them a much needed boost. And this is historically correct too. For instance the Monglos could spawn with a great general representing Genghis Khan.

Hi ,

Hmmm , indeed this would be handy , the US could start with good old George , some civs with a scientist , russia with a great spy ?

more brainstorming is needed , the idea is great , Rhye how much would this affect gameplay / stability ??

Have a nice great person day :)

This idea was given in 06 when the mod wasn't that far. Now we have 08 and there are many many improvements made. We don't need more Great Persons just spawning and being given to the civs for nothing. Rhyes has never just added something when a civ was too weak, there were always made tweaks and or changes to the gameplay which is much better.

Now please, could you stop bumping old threads that are directed at a (long) outdated version? (if the thread is "old" but has something to do with the current version - be it vanilla, warlords or bts - it'd be okay, but like this, no thank you).

mfG m

This idea was given in 06 when the mod wasn't that far.

Even if that idea was given for outdated versions, it still applicable to the current version. The tweaks made since 06 have not made the Mongols sufficiently powerful. I am for giving more keshiks to the Mongols, plus a Great General, as suggested by Poppa Candy. I tried that in one of my games (using WB) and it worked out nicely.

I've never had any difficulty with China as the Mongols. While I can understand the aesthetic argument of a civ spawning with a GP, they'll start out with a faster GP generation rate than the older civs (as the number of GP points/GP increases with each) and with infrastructure prebuilt.

If you want to change things in worldbuilder, go for it - but please stop bringing up 2-year old threads.

hello ,

indeed the idea is great , and even it might be old it seems that despite its potential its forgotten , hmmm , yep some civs do warrant a great general , others woukd get a great artist like the french maybe

okay bottom line , who would get what ? or would you get a person after for example certain parameters are done , like lets say the dutch declaring war on the spaninsh and next turn a great general would arrive , ....


maybe a new thread for this debate ?

have a fun day :)

^

No need for a debate, as Rhye won't add this. All civs can dominate the game(well, not Inca-Maya-Aztecs), some just do it more often than others. And new civs have a bigger GP point growth.

Can someone lock this thread?

I've never had any difficulty with China as the Mongols.

That's not the point. In fact, it's the other way around: we (the players) have no difficulty with the Mongols as China. Mongolia's AI is just too weak. So it seems a good idea to give them at least one GG to start with.

No need for a debate, as Rhye won't add this.

What makes you so certain? Do you live inside Rhye's brain? Maybe Rhye could change his mind after reading this thread. Or someone else might decide to make a modcomp. Who are we to say?

All civs can dominate the game(well, not Inca-Maya-Aztecs), some just do it more often than others.

Well, I've never seen the Mongols dominate the game. In my games, they're mediocre at best.

Can someone lock this thread?

Why? :confused:

Why? :confused:

Because it's two. years. old.

And the funny thing is, you're not even suggesting what this thread was originally about -- Great Artists for new civs. Bumping it was completely pointless.

Because it's two. years. old.

So what? Like I said, the topic is still applicable to the current version or RFC.

And the funny thing is, you're not even suggesting what this thread was originally about -- Great Artists for new civs.

I'm suggesting a related idea. So, do you like my idea or not?

A invitation to everyone (not just you, Umarth): If people want to post in this thread, please stay in topic and comment on the pro and cons of giving Great Peoples to newborn civs. Thanks.

So what? Like I said, the topic is still applicable to the current version or RFC.



I'm suggesting a related idea. So, do you like my idea or not?

A invitation to everyone (not just you, Umarth): If people want to post in this thread, please stay in topic and comment on the pro and cons of giving Great Peoples to newborn civs. Thanks.


Good afternoon ,

:D :goodjob:


okay , so any ideas as to whom would start with what ?

what about the idea of letting them pop up due to some event ?

some high ' culture ' civs could start strait with a great artist so that for example a great work can be created at ones , like the french for example


having just tested in giving the AI and yes even the barbs all a great person and watching what they do after ten turns is very intresting , most join the city , but indeed some are used in other ways , give a great merchant and see what happens , the AI will cross the entire map regardless of war :crazyeye:

so what should the maya get ?


have a wonderfull afternoon :)


ps ; yep the thread its still ' usefull ' , why would it not be ? just cause its an old thread ? come on :rolleyes:

So what? Like I said, the topic is still applicable to the current version or RFC.
You've yet to establish that since you're talking about a GG for Mongolia, not GAs for all civs.

I'm suggesting a related idea. So, do you like my idea or not?

A invitation to everyone (not just you, Umarth): If people want to post in this thread, please stay in topic and comment on the pro and cons of giving Great Peoples to newborn civs. Thanks.
If anything you are the one posting off topic.

I'd suggest to download the RFC version in which this should be implied. (Idea for the Wiki, release dates for every version?) It is really different. I don't play RFC that long but I understand from experienced players that it has changed a lot. Rhye posted v090 a few days after this thread. So the congresses didn't exist.
In the current version, everything is fine, every UHV is doable on Monarch, same thing for Space Race Victories etc. No need for changes like this, GP's are rather useless in the beginning IMO.

You've yet to establish that since you're talking about a GG for Mongolia, not GAs for all civs.

Actually, the first to suggest a GG for Mongolia was Poppa Candy, not me. I just said that I agreed with him. I also said why: because in my games Mongolia is always weak or mediocre. If you disagree with the latter argument, please explain why.

If anything you are the one posting off topic.

Am I? How so?

In the current version, everything is fine, every UHV is doable on Monarch.

UHVs are not the point. The point is the AI might be more competitive if some of the newborn Civs like Mongolia were to spawn with a Great Person.

UHVs are not the point. The point is the AI might be more competitive if some of the newborn Civs like Mongolia were to spawn with a Great Person.

I think that Great Persons aren't the solution for that problem. Their programmed strategy is to attack China, so what they need are extra units. Also China should have a chance to survive and in my experience, chances are 50/50 so it is balanced enough IMO.

China (600 AD) is way overpowered right now. Free Great Wall means they they don't need to defend against barbs from the Himalayas and they almost always build Guiyang, which makes Khmer much harder. I've never seen China collapse since the most recent patch except after 1700 (it used to be 50:50 around the 1300-1400). Mongolia actually is collapsing more frequently as early as 1500's which I've not seen before.
I would love a starting great general (Genghis Khan) for Mongolia to even the odds.

China (600 AD) is way overpowered right now. Free Great Wall means they they don't need to defend against barbs from the Himalayas and they almost always build Guiyang, which makes Khmer much harder. I've never seen China collapse since the most recent patch except after 1700 (it used to be 50:50 around the 1300-1400). Mongolia actually is collapsing more frequently as early as 1500's which I've not seen before.
I would love a starting great general (Genghis Khan) for Mongolia to even the odds.

Great Wall or not, pulling off the UHVs for the human player is really hard in the 600 AD start. 8 temples, and 2 cathedrals in 40 turns is rough.

That said, rather than give civs great people to start, I'm inclined to give them more proper balanced starting areas, more troops, or settlers, or workers or whatever. You could go on and on about the seminal people starting an empire. As far as the Great wall, you could easily tweak it so that it only runs west to east, so the Nepalese Swordsmen can still get through. Of course, its not like 2 cho-ko-nu in Xian wouldn't kill all but the mightiest hordes.