View Full Version : Is Christianity beefed up?


Swissempire
Jul 16, 2006, 11:08 PM
In my games, i find that as soon as one nation's city gets Christianity, it converts. In the game i'm currently playing, Jewish Mali, in which EVERY city was Jewish, converted to Christianity when a sinlge city gained christianity. In other games, countries have converted even when their capital and the rest of their cities are Muslim/Jewish.

So is there some beef up to Christianity in this version?

Bolleque
Jul 17, 2006, 01:27 AM
In my game on 093 Islam rules. Christianity is only in England, Russia and Aztec.

Arkaeyn
Jul 17, 2006, 02:22 AM
Yeah, in mine the dominant religion is Judaism.

Head Serf
Jul 17, 2006, 09:24 AM
In my Roman game the western world was pretty much divided between Islam and Christianity. However, after some "interferance" on my part, the world is almost completely christianized.

Blasphemous
Jul 17, 2006, 01:57 PM
I think, Swissempire, it may be the case that those civs simply see that so many top dogs have Christianity that they adopt it as soon as possible. In my last full game (Egypt->England) Christianity dominated and most civs had it. The spread wasn't unrealistic, and there were always a few non-Christians, including eventually the gargantuan Persia.

abman
Jul 17, 2006, 08:59 PM
Yeah all of my games have had christianity as the top religion, but not overwhelming the whole world. This is just because all the tight-packed european civs adopt it. I'm not sure I've had anyone else adopt it, except maybe the aztecs and incas as the europeans are usually the first to reach them. The rest of the world is nicely mixed.

Bolleque
Jul 18, 2006, 08:03 AM
In my game Inca was Muslim ;)
India - Hindu
Mongolia - Buddhist
Japan - Taoist
Russia, England - Christian
Rest - Muslim

Blasphemous
Jul 19, 2006, 03:30 PM
It's somewhat realistic that each game seems to get a leading religion and that religion is adopted by most of the world, but perhaps the AI should be reprogrammed a little to especially like their neighbors' religion (only the majority of neighbors), since in reality religions are spread in big geographical blocs and not global swarms...

dh_epic
Jul 19, 2006, 08:02 PM
Something to keep in mind --

The Crusades and overall tension between Muslims and Christians meant that the path between West and East was basically closed until the last 500-600 years. This created a powerful buffer -- with Islam in the middle, Christianity in the West, and the Dharmic religions in the East.

If we really get that religious tension going, we CAN recreate the buffer, and that will lead to the big geographical blocs rather than total global hegemony.

Tom Veil
Oct 27, 2006, 10:09 AM
In my current game, I'm Japan. China founded Confucianism, and I quickly converted ... and then captured the holy city. :) Later in the game, I began to develop a sizeable lead over every other nation in the world, and I realized that I would unwittingly force-convert everyone to Confucianism. Well, I'm in an unusually warmongering mood, so I had none of that. I went to Free Religion and conquered the Chinese. Within a few turns, the growing Confucian monolith started to break up, and now no religion has more than 2 member states.

Rhye
Oct 30, 2006, 05:57 PM
Something to keep in mind --

The Crusades and overall tension between Muslims and Christians meant that the path between West and East was basically closed until the last 500-600 years. This created a powerful buffer -- with Islam in the middle, Christianity in the West, and the Dharmic religions in the East.

If we really get that religious tension going, we CAN recreate the buffer, and that will lead to the big geographical blocs rather than total global hegemony.


that's interesting, but how would you do that?

SilverKnight
Oct 31, 2006, 11:27 AM
It already happens in my games. As Greece, I captured and held Urshalim from the Arabs (actually Egypt did, I asked for it and they gave it to me! :D), becoming a powerful Jewish state. Rome and Egypt were already Jewish, and Mali switched from Christianity to Judaism (after Europe repeatedly insulted them, I assume). My good buddy Asoka remained the only Hindu nation, Europe became Christian (with France as the founder), and Asia become Confucianist. It ended up with several religious blocs, Christian, Jewish, and Confucianist. History tends to repeat itself, but with minor variations. Sometimes the New World converts to one or the other religions, sometimes the "buffer" states switch religions, etc.

SilverKnight

Surtur
Oct 31, 2006, 01:58 PM
In most of my games I also have these religious blocs. Europe is almost every game complete Christian, Persia and Egypt are Jewish, Arabia Islamic, India has Hinduism and China, Japan Confucianism.

Phallus
Oct 31, 2006, 03:16 PM
I still haven't had a game where Mali adopts Islam.

kairob
Oct 31, 2006, 04:06 PM
I have...

...but I was Mali :) and I was communist and led an african invasion of the USA...

...god that felt good....

hamtastic
Oct 31, 2006, 05:10 PM
I played as Japan and also conquered the confucian holy city. I then spread it to Mali, Incans, and Mongolia. Lots of fun, although Montezuma would never borders no matter how much tech I gave him, so I couldn't spread it to him. I also had a really long war with Saladin since I declared on him just to get through his territory. He eventually showed up on my western borders (I had wiped out China) with a bunch of camel archers. After I killed them all but realized I couldn't do anything much to him I took peace.

GoodGame
Dec 16, 2006, 04:14 PM
It seems to me a super-simple and realistic means is to make both Christian and Muslim blocs to desire to control the city that spawned Judaism. Instant conflict.

All the same, if the Middle East went Buddhist, while Europe was Christian, a holy war could be as likely, but perhaps some religions should be flagged as giving a teritorial personality, some a missionary personality, and others isolationist ( to the AI at least).

Perhaps Religions should have HVs also, that are enabled for civs that convert to them? (To give extra motivation for historical, and reasonably reproducible behaviors).

that's interesting, but how would you do that?

Aeon221
Dec 16, 2006, 04:52 PM
Necromancer! Burn him!

Blasphemous
Dec 17, 2006, 12:08 PM
I like those ideas, GoodGame...
Maybe there should be two generic Religious Historical Victory conditions, both extremely hard, which would count towards UHV. You'd still get the Arch at 2 goals and the victory at 3, you'd just have a religious way to do (and the national ones would be easier. And you'd have to get at least one to win.)
The two goals I'm thinking would be:
*Control SR's holy city when SR's spread hits 66%
*15 other civs share your SR, or all civs do (whichever is less)
And I also like the idea of religion setting some AI personality, but we have to do that carefully and politically correctly...

thenooblet22
Dec 17, 2006, 12:19 PM
I thought Rhye actually did beed up Christianity in the earlier builds when everyone was complaining about Hindu Europe. But in my games, Europe is usually split between Judaism and Christianity, with Islam occasionally.

Tekee
Dec 17, 2006, 12:22 PM
In My Ryhe Game all of Europe was islamic and Hindu :D

Except that I had to wuit ebcuase my game can't handle large maps

sdLeo
Dec 17, 2006, 01:02 PM
@ Tekee

Ahem, this forum is not big enough for TWO Orthodox Christians...


And I also like the idea of religion setting some AI personality, but we have to do that carefully and politically correctly...

Yes, I love this idea, but we'd be walking on thin ice.

How do you see this? Give us something to build upon, I'm intrigued.

Mercenary82
Dec 17, 2006, 01:18 PM
It would be niced to see some Civs, Turkey and Arabia mainly, to be forced in to adopting Islam.
In most games, Turkey is Christian, and even Arabia usually adopts Christianity later on due to having the Christian Holy city and shrine.
It gets pretty boring when this happens and they become friendly with all the European civs, causing almost no wars to happen.

Tom Veil
Dec 17, 2006, 09:03 PM
IIRC, Arabia will always found Islam in their capital if it's not already founded when they spawn. They are a Muslim nation in the great majority of games. The occasional game where they're Christian or Jewish isn't that big of a problem as far as I'm concerned.

sdLeo
Dec 17, 2006, 09:43 PM
Yep, in my experience, Arabs are always Muslim (and confined to the peninsula :mischief: ) and it happened once that Turkey went Christian (which is fine for me).

Blasphemous
Dec 19, 2006, 11:57 AM
I'd like to see each religion setting an attitude mainly as far as spreading the religion.
Judaism shouldn't care much about spreading religion, but it should make Jewish civs like the other civs less. Jewish civs should tend to play defensively and only fight for cities that are already Jewish.
Islam should be willing to do anything to spread the religion. Anyone refusing to convert should have a high likelihood of being attacked, Muslim civs should usually have all their possible missionaries en route to cities they can convert all the time, and in wars Muslim AI should focus on conquering non-Muslim cities along with cities that AI used to own.
Christianity should spread the SR aggressively through use of missionaries, first in cities already in Christian countries and then everywhere else. They should be especially unlikely to attack another civ with the same SR, and especially likely to respond with exaggerated force when a non-Christian civ declares war on them. They should be very happy to ally with Christian civs against heathens, and they shouldn't care like Islam and Judaism about the religion in cities they may conquer.
I won't reveal the full extent of my ignorance on the Far Eastern religions, so I'll leave those for others to discuss.

Phallus
Dec 19, 2006, 03:35 PM
Daoism (in whichever way your interpret it) doesn't place much emphasis on missionary work. As a philosophy, it is something which must be studied and grasped rather than spread. As a folk-religion, it isn't very different in nature to any other ancestral religion.

To recreate its rapid spread in the game, it might be an idea to encourage missionary production in Buddhism. Though this isn't immediately faithful to history (various leaders and scholars have eagerly spread Buddhism, but missionary work in its traditional sense isn't a priority), it should ultimately result in a historically accurate 'range' for Buddhism (which even reached Axum by the 4th century). Though Hinduism could also be found throughout southern Asia in the past, it makes sense to give both Dharmic religions in the game a relatively passive role.

For example, Anekantavada (literally 'non-onesidedness') is a common feature among Dharmic religions even though it's known under different names. For brevity's sake, it teaches people never to impose their beliefs on others or even regard their own as superior. Anekantavada however, is only central to Jainism (it is merely encouraged in Hinduism and Buddhism), which may explain why Jainism is far less popular than Buddhism or Hinduism today.

SadoMacho
Dec 20, 2006, 07:14 AM
I noticed that most cities have only 1 religion at the time. It seems the IA doen't want to spread religions to cities that have allready a religion. I have seen a Muslim London and all other English cities christian. Something should be done about that.