GOTM 57 - first spoiler

Reading Requirements:


Must have all contacts (5 total).
Must have reached the middle ages.


Posting restrictions


No maps showing resources from middle-ages (or later).
No discussion of middle-ages (or later).


This map doesn't have a fantastically-good starting location, and the map has been set-up to make you think about your strategies. How did you adapt - and how do you plan on closing-out the game?

I settled to the east with the objective of building a ring of cities at RCP3. The worker went to the river BG, developed it and then went back to wines and took care of that too. I believe that this is the first time I have done this with a low-food capital, but I started building a granary immediately. This was followed by a settler and a barracks. New York was settled to the west and did the same. Granary-settler-barracks.

The scout started off to the west and found a GH which popped a warrior. Between them, they found our neighbours and mapped out our world. Much later, I found a second goody hut, which gave me literature.

My original plan was to get to Republic as fast as possible. In the meantime, I would follow the path of building a force of warriors which would get upgraded to swords to take out the nearest civ. Well, the map clearly put the kibosh on that idea! I had just trained my first vet warrior when I discovered the awful truth that we had neither iron nor horses, coupled with a cramped start and a massive amount of jungle.

So I changed gears. After researching Philo (Yes, I did it backwards. Not that I was imagining a slingshot; I just chose CoL first out of habit), I started a min-sci on Republic, reasoning that my small empire would have to support a massive army of workers and archers. Thus, there would be no reason to get to Republic (or anything else for that matter) anytime soon. Once the jungle was cleared, and the iron secured, we would change governments and re-start research.

I decided that I would tackle Rome first, for several reasons. First, there would not likely be many Legions outside the capital as the AI is not good at dealing with jungle starts and would fail to build roads between its cities. In contrast the Numidians would be everywhere. Secondly, the Romans were seriously cramping my style, both to the north and west. Finally, and best of all, Rome started building the Pyramids when it was at size 1. I established an embassy and discovered that there was only one regular legion and one regular spear in the city. Promising.

By 1200BC, five cities had been built in my inner ring. After Washington and New York, each city started by building a barracks. Once finished, they pumped out a mixture of archers, workers and settlers as appropriate. The jungle clearing operations were well-advanced too. Every tile had either been cleared already or had one or more workers on the job. In this regard, I had done well with worker buys. My seven cities were supported by five native and six slave workers, one from each civ and two from China. Combined with the wet start, that had to hurt!

My military advisor told me that, compared to Rome, my military was weak so naturally it was time to strike! Cumae had been founded four tiles from my capital and was a major pain, causing pressure on both Atlanta and Chicago. I assembled a force of seven archers and took down the city. As expected, there were no legions, just two regular spears. The city was razed at the cost of one archer. I decided that the second ring of cities would be at RCP7, for reasons of city placement. It looked better than 6 in this regard. In any case, Cumae didn’t fit either plan.

I brought Hannibal into the war, expecting to fire off his GA. I didn’t think he would reach Rome and send off theirs. In any case, all that would be likely to do was to get the Pyramids build faster. As I thought of that, I said… why not? So I played a small trick to make this happen. My little warrior, gained from the GH would suicide against Rome’s Legion. The moment the wonder was built, my archers would storm the city. Caesar would probably have time to whip one more Legion but that would be it.

In 1025 BC I snatched a Japanese settler, setting off another war. This one would prove to be phony, except for the initial incident. I offered peace to Toku as soon as he would accept it.

QSC stats:
8 cities, pop 18
362 gold, embassies with everyone
2 granaries and 5 barracks
10 archers, 2 warriors and a scout
1 settler, 5 workers and 8 slaves
all AE techs except Math, Currency, Construction, Polytheism and the governments
twenty turns to Republic

In 1000 BC I got my first elite win and the following turn Caesar got his Golden Age :D In 875 BC, Pompeii was destroyed and replaced by Miami.

In 630BC, Caesar finally got around to building the Pyramids. In an example of huge overkill, I moved in a force of twenty archers to take the city. As expected the dude whipped another defender as soon as the wonder was finished, bringing it down to town size ::rolleyes: Only two archers were lost in taking out two legions and a spear.

At the same time, I finally learned Republic. I was surprised to find from CAII that unit costs in Republic would not be crushing. This being the case I revolted immediately, drawing a 6-turn anarchy. I next planned to impale my army on Hoplites in a bid to obtain horses. As a start to the hostilities I grabbed a Greek settler pair passing by Rome. I gave the Romans peace in exchange for a couple of techs and an alliance against Alex.

In 430BC, the first swords came off the assembly line. The same year, Sparta-of-the-Dye fell to the American archers and the army moved on to Corinth to claim the horses. The following turn Greece became the second country to enter the Middle Ages so I traded my way there, discovering that their free tech was monotheism. I found that I could easily handle a run on feudalism, so I cranked the science rate up.

The Age of the Archer is ending. The Age of the Knight is coming. In between, there will be a short Interlude of the MDI.

Edit to answer the questions:

1. I have never played a game where I trained so many archers before. There must have been at least 30.
2. This is looking like a conquest. The iron is secured and the horses are close.

Predator domination challenge.

Founded Washington in 3950 1 tile east. Set research to warrior code, build to a scout and the worker improves wine hill. My scout goes scouting up north. In 3800 he meets the Romans. Ooh no, their capitol is 7 tiles due north and on a hill. I don’t want to face legionaries there. I calculate I’ll have WC in time for an archer rush on Caesar. The scout built is changed to a barracks and the worker has to construct a highway up to Rome after improving wine hill and the riverbank bg.

The scout continues his journey clockwise and meets a Greek warrior in 3350, the same year we research WC. I feel like war, so next research to the wheel. Next turn we meet Hannibal. As Alex and Caesar already know WC we trade our new knowledge for a measly 10 gold to Hannibal. In 3050 we pop a hut on the peninsula south of Carthage. It gives us a worker. This worker is ordered to construct a highway between Carthage and Washington. Next turn Bede tells us we’re the least happy of all peoples.

In 2850 China meets us and the next turn the wheel is researched and we start on writing. The wheel is traded for pottery, ceremonial burial and 10 gold to Alex. CB, pots and wheel go to Mao for masonry and bronze working. Finally we get 20 coins from Caesar for CB. Unfortunately there are no horses in the vicinity.

Decision is now definitely for war production only in Washington and no frivolities like settlers, RCP, GA, MA or any other smart things. Just good old sweat and toil. In 2590 we have brought ample archers to Rome and we dow Caesar. Rome is captured in 2510. He has 1 other city: Veii. I decide to wait for reinforcements and Veii’s cultural expansion before attacking again. In 2230 we give Caesar peace for iron working. Wow man, Rome is built on iron; glad we captured it before Caesar researched iron. (Later I noticed all AI capitols were built on hills and with either iron (Rome, Carthage & Japan) or horse(Greece & China)) As we have a road between Washington and Rome, Washington switches immediately to building swordsmen. The power is the same as I can build an archer in 2 turns and a swordsman in 3 turns. But the upkeep is lower.

The same year we meet Japan. In 2150 we trade Toku pots for 10 coins. In 2070 writing is discovered and we trade masonry and alphabet to Japan for mysticism. I change my mind from going after Republic. Instead I will pursue Monarchy and set research to polytheism.

The second Roman war starts in 1990 and according to Livy we’re the wealthiest nation on earth. Next turn Veii is captured and Caesar retires. Alex had parked a warrior next to Veii. In the interturn the malicious Greek dow us, the warrior kills our wounded archer in Veii and Veii is Greek. Of course next turn our remaining archers kill the Greek warrior and in 1910 Veii is US again. As I’m building up an army of swords to attack Hannibal, nothing much happens on the Greek front. When in 1650 a hoplite shows up near Veii I make peace with Alex netting us a Greek worker also.

In 1500 I feel strong enough to attack Hannibal with my swords. And next turn Carthage is captured. It’s the same turn in which polytheism is researched. Research now to monarchy. New Carthagian capitol is Utica and like with Veii I decide to wait for reinforcements and cultural expansion. In 1250 a Greek hoplite/settler combo passes 2 US swords. I can’t resist the temptation and the second Greek war is a fact. In 1175 Utica is captured. Next turn Leptis Magna gets destroyed and Hannibal is no more.
The QSC statistics:
5 cities (Washington, Rome, Veii, Carthage & Utica), 19 pop
improvements: 2 barracks & 2 temples
1 settler, 2 workers, 10 slaves, 4 archers & 11 swords
techs: all 1 tier plus iron working, writing, mysticism & polytheism

I decide now to not longer wait for cultural expansions, as both Washington and Rome are building swords on a regular base. In 1050 we destroy Corinth and in 950 Sparta. In 925 we meet a Japanese spear/settler and the first Japanese war starts. The same turn in which we end the second Greek war for literature, map making, world map and 70 gold. In 850 monarchy is researched and we revolt for a 1 turn anarchy. Now research is stopped in order to get us the coins for hurrying temples. Washington can now do a sword in 2. Toku is apparently the only one besides us who has some swords too.

The third Greek war starts in 750. Next turn we’re again the wealthiest nation, this time recorded by Pliny. One more turn and Athens is ours. And another turn our first great leader arises: Washington is his name. The good man builds us a Forbidden Palace in Veii next turn. Now Veii, being located amongst 4 cows, can really start producing settlers. And of course also Rome (now a sword every 3 turns) and other cities benefit from the near FP. In 610 we capture Thermopylae and the Greek are no more.

We temporarily have to make peace with Japan in 570, as Toku threatens to take Athens. The peace doesn’t last long as we’re warring again in 530 and our second and final great leader emerges. His name is Lee and he erects us some pyramids in Athens the next turn. Same turn in which Edo gets destroyed.

During some time now I didn’t supply the Greek/Japanese front with new troops. The new troops were sent towards China. In 470 war on China is declared. Now things really start rolling: 450 Osaka destroyed, 410 Tokyo destroyed, 390 Tsingtao destroyed, 350 Kyoto captured (Japan dead), 330 Canton destroyed, 290 Shanghai captured and in 270 Beijing captured. That leaves only Nanking.

In 230 we’re at the gates of Nanking. I planned to do a domination but at that moment I’m still lacking some territory. Despite having founded quite a few cities and hurried quite a few temples. Should I wait for domination or just continue and take Nanking. I can’t resist the temptation, so I take Nanking.

Conquest victory in 210BC firaxis 9479 Jason 12109

I need another fast game, 80% water pangea should be right for a quick sword rush. Predator Conquest Challenge anybody?

We might see some BC finishes this time...
How very true. Though I had my share of luck in this game, I have little doubt some will beat my date, as I'm not famous for achieving fast conquests.

Great game. :goodjob: In view of your result, I obviously I made a mistake in setting up a core instead of going out and getting cities.

I'm not famous for achieving fast conquests.I think you can safely say that this may change :mischief:

I decided to get the iron from Carthage.
Sent 10 archers there to take the capital and failed.
Wasn't worth another shot at that stage, so I gave up.
Another game down the pan :(

Great game Redbad. As things stand, I think that must be the fastest conquest ever submitted in GOTM.

The AI were incredibly weak in my game too. In fact when I first got everyone's maps in 1475BC I was stunned to find that they had only 10 cities between them which were nearly all at size 1. I actually had a higher pop count than everyone else put together at that bit of the game.

Anyone have any theories on why they were so weak? Japan were again behaving very strangely in my game. I think someone must have fiddled them.

I'll do my spoiler in the next thread.

This is 2 GOTM's in a row where i never saw japan build a single temple or spearman. I did see some Japanese pikemen though.

(I also suspect that the GOTM 55 Japan never built a temple either, but i never really noticed.)

[civ3mac] [ptw] Predator

Probably the domination challenge, though Conquest will remain an option depending on where 67% of the land is.

Settled one tile east of the start.
Archers killed three legionaries to take Rome in 1450 BC.
Also killed several Japanese, Roman and Greek settlers to build up a work force to tame the jungles. These tended to be short wars, ending with peace deals involving money or techs. During the first Greek war I allied Carthage against them (a) to try to get both their Golden Ages out of the way early and (b) to avoid having to fight Greece myself.

At 1000 BC we had built 5 cities and captured Rome. Area was 61 tiles, population 16, with 24 units, researching Republic in hopes of using it for trade.

At 210 BC we reached the Middle Ages. By then we had 14 cities including Rome, Veii and Thermopylae. Area was 135 tiles, 48 citizens, 49 units. Rome, the nation, had declined and fallen, China and Japan were still alive, but we were working on that. There was currently a lull in hostilities with Greece while they provided us with Right of Passage to allow our swords to kill the Japanese. We hadn't been at war with Carthage yet, but their turn would come. Greece and Carthage would probably have to wait for Medieval Infantry to handle their defensive unique units.

[EDIT] Added a screenshot. Yes! I'm building a couple of catapaults! See what making me build slow units does to my principles?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/GOTM57_1st_Spoiler.jpg

The purpose - is unknown
I wanted to take predator, but dl open and conquest - began to play open.
The basic ideas - to not spend courses for moving settler, to not be engaged in a science up to a meeting with neighbours.
City on an initial position, prebuild baracks for construction of a temple.
Scout has found China, Rome and Greece. China has very bad is located, therefore is not dangerous. Rome is very well located and if will have time to receive UU begins very dangerous. Greece already has protective UU and without swordsmen is invincible. China up to UU will not live in general.
Baracks are finished and are under construction archers. The first 3 go to Rome, the others go to Carthago. 2430 - Rome captured. Rome has disappeared.
After exchanges of technologies all means on Iron Working
Rome is taken lost-free with 5 (!!!) workers. 2 archers from Rome and 2 from Washington go to Carthago. Carthago is taken lost-free and 3 archers wait for growth Utica that it has not been destroyed.
Washington builds warriors, which upgrade to Rome. New York fuoded in the middle between Washington and Rome. 1650 - Utica captured - Carthago has disappeared. War with Greece began. 1175 the second front about China is open. 900 - Greece was terminated, war with Japan began. 750 - China has disappeared. 650 - Kyoto captured.
Score = 11008
Sities = 10
Workers 1+14
I think, that it is possible to finish up to 1000ВС. I have made many mistakes. Workers (2-3) it was necessary to attach to Rome and to speed up development of city. It was not necessary to build in general New York, but only an army. It was not necessary to build temples, but only army.
Sorry English....

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif
Predator Domination Challenge

settlement
3950 Washington (E of Start): Scout, barracks, archers.
2510 New York 2E of Washington
1830 Boston

Huts
3350 worker
2550 warrior

foreign affairs
3800 Romans (up WC, Alpha)
3600 Carthaginians (up Mas, Alpha), Chinese (up Mas, Alpha, WC)
3300 Greek, trade BW for Masonry
3250 Japanese (Back BW, Mas, Alp, Pot, WC). trade for CB, TW.

Research
3450 Pottery (monopol), trade for WC, BW, Alpha.
3250 trade for CB, TW.
2430 Writing.
2230 Trade Iron Working from Rome.
1650 Literature.
1475 MM from Greece for Lit, IW.
1200 get HBR, Myst for MM.

warfare
2310 declare on Carthaginians, capture worker, move in warrior, 2 archers.
2270 kill 2 warriors, capture Carthage (Iron). capture settler.
2150 Carthage destroys New York :(
1700 Japanese demand IW. I tell them where they can get it. They dow.
1700 Capture Utica, Carthage is gone.
1650 Ally Greece against Japan for rop :)
1575 Dow on China.
1475 Ally Rome against China.
1200 Sign peace with Japan
1125 sneak attack on Rome! Capture Rome, destroy Pompei
1075 capture Cumae
825 capture Veii, Romans leave the scene
800 dow on Greeks, sign in Japanese.
710 destroy Corinth.
670 destroy Delphi
430 peace with Greeks for town. Capture Athens, Eliminate Greeks.
410 peace with Chinese. ROP with both Japan and China.
270 capture Tokyo.
250 We get our first MGL... kinda late...
destroy Edo, Osaka.
230 capture Bejing - Japan and China down to their last towns - Did any settlers escape on ships? :hmm:
210 MGL rushes FP in Athens... ( :wallbash: army would have been better choice...
EDIT: :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash: Or some wonder to trigger a GA?!?)
Destroy Shanghai - Chinese gone.
130 Destroy Kyoto - Japanese are Dust!!

My army at the end: 18 swords, 1 archer, 7 workers, 10 slaves, 1 scout...
22 towns, pop 53.

Result
Entry class: Predator
Game status: Conquest Victory for America
Game date: 110 BC
Firaxis score: 9019
Jason score: 11800
Time played: 06:46:31

Sorry Predator Domination Challengers - I could not stand the temptation of a BC-victory... :blush:

@EsatP: No doubt, a fatastic result!
Seeing others' results I know I should stick to my building style... :(

Open- and impressed with the three BC victories without building alomst no cities- I've never been that daring but it seems to work. Here's how I have done:

Build Washington 2 NE. Mine and road river BG then wines. Research Wheel figuring it should be tradeable. I build 2 scouts first, then a warrior, then start a granary in 3350. I plan to set up a 10 turn settler + archer cycle in Washington. I meet Rome-3750, Carthage-3550, China-3400, Greece-3150, Japan-2900. By 3050 I have traded for alphabet, WC, BW, CB and researched Wheel. I start a min run on maths. In 3050 I buy a slave from Greece. The granary is then built in 2750.
In 2710 Hannibal builds Utica by the wheat belt East of Washington. I consider taking it and setting up a four turn settler pump there. After building New York in 2430(rcp 3), trading for Mysticism and IW and buying 2 more slaves, I attack Utica in 2070. I destroy it, and build Boston nearby in 1750 where it will get two wheat tiles after culture. I build a temple and a granary there so it takes ages to set this up, and the venture is nowhere near as successful as hoped. I'm wondering if the wheat was used well by anyone? Peace is signed soon for writing and a slave.
Maths comes in 1525. In 1450 I found Philadelphia, my fourth city, on a river mouth and straight away start Colossus. The I'll build the Hanging Gardens for a GA sometime around the start of the MA. Atlanta is founded in 1350, when I also research Philosophy. I then trade maths and get mapping, COL and horse riding. I start republic. Around here Japan declare war on me but it is totally phoney. In 1150 Chicago comes(5th rcp 3 city).
In 1150 Japan and Carthage sign an alliance against me. I pay Japan for peace just as their forces arrive, and throw almost my whole army against Theveste(5arch, 2 warr)- it is destroyed in 1000BC, I lose two archers and peace is signed giving me Hippo.

QSC stats
7 cities= 17 pop
1 barracks, 1 temple (1 of each in production)
don't have construction, polytheism, currency, literature, republic(10 turns to go)
2 warriors (1 in prod), 6 archers (1 in prod), 4 workers(3 foreign), 2 settlers in prod

After this war I expanded a bit, completing my first ring of 7 cities at distance 3, and starting a second ring at distance 6. The republic was discovered, and the new government was founded in 650. Then in 630 I started Pyramids in Washington- a prebuild for the Hanging Gardens. I research polytheism in 530. In 510 I it's war with Carthage for the third time. This time I go for the capital, two archers perish but Carthage falls, and I now have iron. I then destroy Leptis Minor. In 430 the Colossus is built. In 390 I connect dyes south of Greece to my empire and I put a city on the spare horses near Greece. In 330 Japan declares war on me for the third time. This time I fear it will not be a phoney war. Construction comes in 310 and I enter the Middle Ages.
My productive superiority is enormous. With iron now I will research feudalism and go all out for mace men and a military win.

I have little doubt some will beat my date, as I'm not famous for achieving fast conquests.
Great game EsatP, and thanks for confirming the above :mischief:

@Abegweit
I think the real difference is the map/land size/layout. When the world is larger or parts of it are difficult to reach, then having a core that can research or can build more expensive units pays off. This being a small pangea benefits this "Atilla the Hun"-way of doing things.

@Paul#42
Good game Paul and only 5 turns slower. But then again we (the dutch) were a few turns "slower" in the worldcup ;)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif [ptw] going for domination (really :p, not intending to bail out on conquest)

Settled east. Research pottery. Build order scout-granary.

Cities
3950BC settled Washington
2710BC settled New York
1700BC settled Boston (on horses near Athens)
1600BC settled Philadelphia
1550BC got Veii in peace traty
1375BC captured Utica
1350BC settled Atlanta
1325BC settled Chicago
1175BC settled Seattle
1050BC settled San Francisco

QSC:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/klarius_g57_0.jpg
10 towns, 23 pop, 2 granaries, 1 barracks, 1 temple
5 workers, 8 slaves, 1 warrior, 6 archers, 1 galley
all contacts, 3 embassies

875BC got Edo in peace treaty
850BC captured Sparta
775BC captured Thermopylae
670BC settled Miami
590BC settled Houston
570BC got Canton in peace treaty

Science
3400 pottery researched; bought Masonry,Alphabet and WC
3250 bought BW
2800 CB from hut
2710 TW researched
2510 bought IW
2310 bought Mysticism
1870 writing researched
1425 Polytheism researched; bought Mathematics and HBR
1200 bought MM
950 Monarchy researched; bought construction
630 bought currency
590 Literature researched; bought Col
470 Philosophy researched; enter MA

Foreign Relations

3750 meet Rome
3550 meet China and Carthage
2590 meet Greece
2310 meet Japan
1790 Rome declares after rebuffed demand
1525 peace with Rome
1375 War on Carthage to get Utica
1200 peace again
1050 Japan declares (demand)
850 peace with Japan; declare on Greece
750 peace with Greece
710 China declares (boot order)
690 declare on Japan
570 declare on Carthage; peace with Japan and China

Well, domination will still be quite some effort :)

I settle Washington two NE, building a warrior, then a scout and a granary. 1790BC I settle Philadelphia and have the capital + 3 cities at distance 3. I realize our neighbours are Carthago, Rome and Greece. How lovely, they all have a strong UU that will make live difficult (I actually triggered off the GA for all three of them).

I was wondering if research would be a problem but in 1990BC I get Iron Working from Rome and am now the tech leader. In this moment I also realize that somebody made sure that our neighbours had the necessary resources. I decide that I will go for Carthago first, as they have iron, are building towns near me and they have a nice peninsula.

6 archers are sent for Utica and fail. :confused: -> I check Civilopedia for the NM, this thing has a def. value of 3, oops, I thought it was 2. So I send another group, finally destroy Utica and settle for peace. All my settlements are dedicated to produce barracks -> archers. 530BC Carthage falls to 15 archers and I have iron, so all archer builds are changed for swords.

At around 350BC I enter the MA, still in despotism, but I will soon revolt for a republic. My main concern then will be to trigger my Golden Age and I plan to go for domination with knights (although I will have to snatch the horses from the Greek for that).

Settlements
3900 Washington NE NE
2510 NY E SE SE
2070 Boston NE NE N
1790 Philadelphia SW SW SW
1425 Atlanta NW NW N
1000 Chicago E E NE NE
0850 Seattle E SE SE SE SE
0690 San Francisco N N N NE
0570 Miami W W NW NW

Science
self - Pottery
Rome - WC + 10 vs Pottery
Carthago - Masonry vs Pottery + WC + 18
Greece - Alphabet vs Masonry
self - Wheel
Carthago - BW + 21 vs Wheel
Goody Hut - CB
self - HBR
Greece - Writing vs HBR
Japan - Mysticism + 10 vs Masonry + Alphabet
Rome - IW vs Writing + CB
self - Mathematics
Greece - Map Making + 32 + World Map vs Math
self - Construction
Greece - Philo + CoL
self - Currency
Greece (almost self) - Republic vs Currency
self - Literature
China - Poly + 19 + World Map vs Currency
-> MA (ca. 0350)

Contacts
3650 Carthago
3250 Rome
3150 Greece
2950 China
2110 Japan

Huts
Nothing
Ceremonial Burial

@Paul#42
Good game Paul and only 5 turns slower. But then again we (the dutch) were a few turns "slower" in the worldcup ;)

Neither Germany's third nor Holland's ninth place will be remembered too long... :(
As will my five turns delay in this one. However I will keep it in mind as my only BC-finish ever (SID-losses excluded). :king:

At least we finally beat the Portugese as I had promised... :rolleyes:

__________________
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam (Cato the eldar)


Where did you get that one from? :D :p

good game, Redbad!

changing my goal from 20k to spaceshuttle half way through the game, i am trying to maintain a 4 turn research pace. i killed Carthage with 3 archers before they got their second city. and allied Chinese against Roman. Greece will be the only research partner.

First Try:
I want to go for conquest. I burn multiple stacks of archers on Carthagos hillside Numidians, always falling one or two hp shorts of taking it. Meanwhile Rome declares war on me with their legions, whenever they feel like it. Still I was in a living shape, most territory and tech leader. Should probably have played on and gone for a diplo or space race.

Second try:
I give i a second try, with a similar strategy but messing this one up totally.

Now the thread comes online, and I learn what I have done worng (too many settlers, meaning archers come too late).

3rd - 11th try.
For learning expirience I try to replicate the early successes, reaching various points of failures.

12th try
Swordsman Conquest Victory in 400 BC.

What I never managed was taking Rome or carthago with just 3 archers. it was always already defended by a Spear or numidian plus a warrior on a hill, which proofed impossible to take with just three archers.

The other question is, do you guys research after getting IW? I didn't really, using pointy stick instead. On the other hand, all the money earned was just wasted, having nothing to upgrade or rush.

I think I will use thi game some more as a trainign expirience, as the small size makes it possible to play thorugh in just 4 hours.

I waited until I had six archers and then took Rome, defeating Legions to do it. After that I mistakenly waited until the MA to take down Carthage and Athens. Silly, really, as they were no more of a challenge than Roman legions, and with swords it should have been easy. I reasoned that I should get China and Japan out of the way first, as they were further way, and leaving the Greek and Carthaginian cities to grow a bit would save time rebuilding autorazed cities.

What I never managed was taking Rome or carthago with just 3 archers. it was always already defended by a Spear or numidian plus a warrior on a hill, which proofed impossible to take with just three archers.

I switched to barracks immediately with Rome that close. It was still a surprise when they had iron; I take it that they would have had legions had I built cities and whatnot. You have to get on the Monarch AI early to only face warriors.

Crowded House
Washington is built 2SE of our starting location in 3900BC. All our scout can find at first is jungle. Scout finds Rome in 3450BC, but Rome refuses to trade. I also see brown border at this time and realize we'll be crowded. A Greek warrior is spotted in 3250BC. We trade thempottery for BW. We then trade Rome pottery for warcode+10. Next turn we spot Carthage, they refuse a trade. We learn the wheel in 3100BC, trading it to Rome for alpha+10. . A Chinese warrior wanders into view w of Washington in 2900BC. Our scout finds the Japanese in 2750BC and trades mason for CB+26.

Don't Fence Me In
Carthage builds Utica east of us in 2670BC, crowding us. We learn IW in 2390BC and discover that we have no iron. New York is founded at ring 3. Since we're so crowded, I decide to go for culture and have New York start a temple. Washington is cranking out archers meanwhile. Boston is built in 1910BC. Around this time barbarians show up to pester us. We learn writing in 1750BC and next turn trade it to Rome for HB.

Don't Tread On Me
The Greeks decide to pick a fight in 1700BC. Ok, we'll give them one. I get a very bad feeling:scared: when I see a legionaire to the north. Where's their iron? I then realize that Rome is sitting on it! Greece sends 2 archers outside New York, we kill them easily. This gets them to the peace table, where they give us mystic+5. Next turn we found Philadelphia. I open an embassy to Carthage in 1350BC and a century later learn mapping. I trade it to Greece for law+poly+WM+23. Trade it to Rome for WM+3+slave. Trade Carthagephilo for WM+37.

Cowboys and Carthaginians
I decide on Carthage as my first target as I would rather face Numidians who will defend rather than legionaires who would fight back. My opportunity comes in 1225BC when I take a slave. 4 archers move on Utica. The attack fails. We found Charleston in 1150BC between Neapolis and Rome, trying to flip Neapolis. Rome then steps up and demands TM+12. We give in. A few skirmishes with archers take us to the QSC date.

QSC STATS-------------

Score: Firaxis 156. QSC 2433.
Land: 68 squares, 5 towns.
Population: 4 happy, 7 content, 1 sad.
Production: 69 food, 97 shields, 18 gold.
Diplomacy: 5 contacts, 2 embassies.
Buildings: 3 temples, 2 rax, 1 grain.
Units: 2 warriors, 3 archers, 2 spears, 4 workers, 2 slaves.
Experience: 2 regulars, 5 vets.
Tech: all starters+IW, writing, mystic, HB, maps, law, philo.
We have 162 beakers toward Poly, need 104.


Unleashed in the East
Richmond is built in 900BC and we learn poly 2 turns later. We trade it to Japan for math+TM+42. In 730BC as we kill several Carthaginian warriors and archers near New York, we trade Rome math for lit+14. We send 6 archers against 2 numidians at Utica in 670BC and Utica burns. This gets them to the peace table where they cede us Hippo (later renamed Louisville)+40. I use the money to build an embassy to Greece. We are now open for expansion to the east and Atlanta is built on a gold hill in 510BC.

Who Needs a Constitution?
We learn monarchy in 410BC and immediately revolt, getting 5 turn anarchy. The monarchy is established a century later, and Baltimore is built another century later. In 150BC a suicide galley discovers the second continent, but sinks trying to get there. Due to the increased population of Washington and New York, I turn happiness up to 10%. We learn construct in 90BC. From Japan I buy coinage for WM+98+3gpt, putting us into the MA.

Ancient Age Spoiler

Well a very different game to those above, sounds like a fun time with those BC victories :goodjob: .

Mine is a 20k game. Went kind of strange as I went into monarchy in 800BC sacrificing mid and late game research capacity for an early revolt and early shield boost through AA. How much it costs me later is yet to be determined.

Settled 1 east of starting position
researched CB first up building granary as temple pre-build, then settler to nab the wheat my scout found to the east. Settler got there just 1 turn ahead of Carthaginians who settled to my north.

Remained peaceful giving in to multiple demands (primarily from strong Romans who extorted 3 techs) until Chinese came knocking after I had 5 archers, so told them where to go. Unfortunately they didnt declare.

Only found 1 goody hut (deserted) before scout eaten by barbs near Rome
Bought 2 early slaves from Greece and Rome joining them to Washington early, size 12 reached 1375BC. Later in AA bought 3 Carthage, 1 Jap and 1 more Roman slave. With lack of food boni for Washington and long delay to get more than one wheat in New York's working tiles these were a big help and worth every gold piece

Cities
Washington 3950BC
New York 2710BC to east RCP4 -> granary, settlers, workers
Boston 1525BC to NNE RCP4 -> rax, miitary
Phily 925BC to NNW RCP4 -> cats
Atlanta 330BC 4NE of Washington RCP4

Enter MA 330BC up construction from the rest - Rome is looking the strongest, other AI are similar size to me.

Culture builds
3150BC temple
1675BC collossus
1100BC oracle
975BC library
570BC HG -> GA
330BC GLib
310BC colosseum
currently building pyramids, but Rome started it in 1575BC so likely to have to switch to GLH

Research / trades
3500BC CB -> myst
3450BC Alpha from Carth
3150BC BW from Greek
3050BC Wheel from Japan
2750BC Myst -> poly
2070BC IW from Greek and writing from Rome
1675BC Poly -> lit
1375BC Lit -> monarchy
975BC CoL from Rome, MM from Japan, HBR from Carth
900BC Monarchy -> revolt immed (4 turn anarchy)
690BC Maths -> currency
490BC Currency -> construction
330BC Construction -> Medieval Age

How about The Wall? Often deprecated as a low-culture wonder, but it gets the same 2cpt as the Lighthouse, and is 100 shields cheaper. So in terms of cpt per shield, its actually as good as Michelangelo and Bach!

Just for the heck of it I decided to try this one, with a couple of self-imposed handicaps. I can only build barracks & units and can only research until horses & iron are displayed. Going for a conquest win and as usual, Marquis of Queensbury rules, with no dastardly deeds. Also end the game with a pure reputation (and a bloody sword).

Settled Washington SE and built a scout before a barracks and a stream of archers.

After that a barrage of arrows and Carthage is history and iron is obtained. Slice & dice on most of Rome and sign peace to gaining tech parity and Pisae. Head north to say good bye to Mao. My now formidable sword force snagged a couple of Japanese citites before I headed to Greece to acquire a pair of cities before signing peace for another pair. Then back to finish off Rome. As I completed the capture of Rome, the barbarians sprouted and rather than lose my substantial treasury to them, I bought my way to the Middle Ages from Greece (and also purchased Engineering).

On the horizon is the end of Japan and then a finally the removal of Alexander to complete the victory, probably in a pre-500 AD.

Just for the heck of it I decided to try this one, with a couple of self-imposed handicaps. I can only build barracks & units and can only research until horses & iron are displayed. Going for a conquest win

From my tests I would guess thats not a handicap, but exactly how you play it fasted. The reputation thing of course is a real handicap :-)

It turned out not to be as tough as I thought. I got lucky in picking Carthage first (he settled next to Washington) and took a pair of cities pre-NM. My concern was that I would not be able to acquire iron or horses. That would have meant archers against Hoplites, Legionaries & Numidians on hills an if the AI got to pikes & knights it would have been a lot tougher. I also had to deal with the lack of unit support with only Washington for quite a while. Being able to take Carthage with only 6 archers was a major plus.

PtW 1.27f http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif

Did domination, finished in 270BCE with 12764 Jason. Nothing special to say about this game. I did replay this game and got Conquest in 1150 BCE. So this game is easy Conquest, hard Domination. I still think so after 2 games. Doing Conquest, you only have to rush units in the Capital, in Domination, you have to spread out. So if Jason score for Conquest and Domination is more than 1000 years apart, it's really wrong.

:eek: Drazek, you are certainly not only the master of Conquest! :clap: :worship:

Would you perhaps have the time to post a more detailed spoiler than the above? I would love to learn something more from you, your last spoiler was really helpful. :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif
domination challenge

Domination in 270 BC. Firaxis: 9762. Jason: 12413. Same date, but the score is not enough :(

Sorry, too tired for writing a spoiler. I'll post it soon, after a pair of days off.

EDIT: oh, it's ancient age domination. A curiosity: the final minimap:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Game57-final.gif

shows no remaining opponents. The survivor is a japanese settler in a boat. :crazyeye:

Drazek, tR1cKy: :wow: :worship: :worship: Impressive Results. Too bad there is no tie for first.

Let us have some spoilers! Did one of you attack Cartaghe with two reg warriors? :eek:

Drazek, tR1cKy: :wow: :worship: :worship: Impressive Results. Too bad there is no tie for first.
Let us have some spoilers! Did one of you attack Cartaghe with two reg warriors? :eek:

I never attack with Warriors. I seem never be able to win those encounters. Instead, I traded workers and pumped out 2 turn Archers to take down Rome. Not sure If I had enough Archers to kill Carthage too. Need to check the game later. After that it was just upgrading Swordsmen and later rushing Swordsmen to take over the world.

Nor did i. Both Rome and Carthage were fairly strong by the time i captured them - they had legions and numidian mercs. I took down Rome with archers and Carthage with swords, then used shortrush extensively to have swords quicker, and with them i took over all the rest.

Anyway, i'll post a very detailed spoiler this evening or tomorrow. There's some resume work to be done first.

Drazek, tR1cKy: :wow: :worship: :worship: Impressive Results. Too bad there is no tie for first.
Who says there isn't? For the Jason results, no, nor for the awards. But for the Predator Challenge the end date is everything. So surely Drazek and tR1cKy are tied for that honor! :)

Again, very impressive! :clap:

Niklas & Paul#42: thanx! Well, the challenge itself is a tie, since the finish date is the only thing we mentioned. For the scoreboard, we all know :(

Anyway, it's been a great challenge. At the cost of being repetitive, this is truly the best game i ever played. Being in those competitions does help a lot. Those winning dates were completely out or reach for me until a few months ago.

Your result too, Niklas, is quite good - and actually you got more jasons than mine. Would you have imagined that a 270 BC domination victory was not enough for an award and was worth only a bronze medal as its best?

-----------

Spoiler part 1 (4000BC-1000BC)

Washington is settled NE-NE of the start location; scout explores east and north, while the worker improves immediately the bonus grass SW of the capital. The build order is scout -> granary -> settler -> warrior -> barracks, followed by a mix of units and settlers;

The planned research path is: Pottery (max) -> Writing (min) -> Polytheism (max) for a quick transition to Monarchy. The other basic techs are expected to be learnt from the AS, with trade and pointy-stick. Same story for Iron Working, Mathematics and Map Making. Nothing else is necessary. It's going to be an ancient age domination.

Carthage, Rome and China are met very early. Soon after Greece shows up, followed by Japan. In 2900 BC, we know everyone in the world and have already acquired the 1st tier techs.

City 2 (New York) is founded E-E of Washington, in 2710BC. Build order is warrior -> temple -> barracks. The idea is to seize the wheat tiles before Carthage beat us. With current knowledge, it would have been less cumbersome to simply take over Carthage, but keeping it untouched has its avantages, as it will be seen later.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Game58-shot1.jpg
(the shot is actually late, but i didn't have an earlier save)

Since now the plan has gone perfectly, but things get complicated with an early war between Greece and Rome. Greece destroys a city, then greek units are seen moving for Rome. Do the Romans have iron? A few turns later we buy Iron Working from Rome. The answer was 'yes', and they got a golden age too. City 3 (Boston) is founded on the coast SW. It builds barracks, then start tossing warriors and archers. Writing is mastered, embassies are established and Rome is investigated. Three legionaries. :mad:

Meanwhile Carthage is building the Colossus. If we let it complete the wonder, then take over the city we'll need only 1 leader to trigger a golden age with wonders. So our target must be Rome anyway. All cities switch to archer production, we'll need lots of them to take over Rome. City 4 (Philadelphia) is founded 3 tiles N of Washington, at equal distance between Rome and the American capital. The RCP pattern is broken, but the odd position should easen up the capture of Rome, that is going to grow rank 3.

Good news come later, as a successive espionage shows only 1 legionary in Rome! It's now or never, and our scarce archer force will need all the advantage it can have. A RoP is signed with Rome, a worker team is sent to road the jungle to connect the it. 7 archers + 1 spear move there, then move NW to avoid the river crossing penalty.

In 1325, Map Making and Mathematics are learnt. Next turn, a RoP is signed with Carthage and Rome is raped. The city falls, but the return of the 2 legionaries costs us the majority of our archer force. The expected advance to Antium is cancelled, and peace is signed without extorting any city. But we have iron now, and Rome has not. Swords for us and no more legions for them. The 2nd luxury (furs) is also seized.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Game58-shot2.jpg

Two more cities are built at RCP 3 from Washington. The army is growing again, this time with swords, waiting for Carthage to finish the Colossus. The wonder is complete in 1075 BC. Next turn, we rape Carthage and capture it. Golden age for them too, but their main productive city is lost. There are also spare troops to continue the offensive and take over at least another Carthaginian city.

We hit the 1000BC mark with 8 cities, 2 of which are captured. Here are the logs so far.

Techs:

3400BC: Pottery (self research); Alphabet, Warrior Code (trade, China); Bronze Working (trade, Carthage); Masonry (trade, Rome);
3000BC: Ceremonial Burial (barbarian hut);
2900BC: Wheel (trade, Japan);
2270BC: Mysticism (trade, Japan); Iron Working (trade, Rome);
1950BC: Horse Riding (hut); Writing (research + trade, Carthage);
1475BC: Polytheism (research);
1325BC: Map Making, Mathematics (trade, Japan); Code of Laws (trade, Carthage);
1200BC: Philosophy (trade, Greece);

Meetings:

3600BC: Carthage;
3500BC: Rome;
3450BC: China;
3200BC: Greece;
2900BC: Japan;

Cities:

3900BC: Washington;
2710BC: New York;
2030BC: Boston;
1550BC: Philadelphia;
1350BC: Rome (captured);
1200BC: Atlanta;
1150BC: Chicago;
1050BC: Carthage (captured);

---------------
stay tuned for part 2!

Wow good luck on your part. In my game greece attacked Carthago, and then ran about a million horseman in single file against the Numidians on the hill. I tried to join in on the war, and profit, from them weakening the defense, but all they managed was promoting 2 of the mercs to Elite, and prompting Carthago to build only more defensive forces. That way I lost first 10 and then 15 Archer to that hill always leaving one redlined defender standing.

Guess I should use spying techniques more.

Spoiler part 2

The 1st part of the spoiler ends with the conquest of Carthage and the capture of the Colossus. At this point it's difficult to believe in a victory in 270 BC, but the situation is actually better than the map suggests.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37263/1156158408.gif

In the 975BC interturn Monarchy is researched. We revolt immediately, draw 4 turns of anarchy and decide not to reroll. America falls under an anarchic government.

Far from being a disorganized mob, the anarchs gather the surviving troops into Carthage to heal and be ready to attack the next target. The remaining Carthaginian cities are all size 1 and rank 1, so the wise anarchs decide to wait for some town to grow. Soon after Utica becomes size 2. Two archer units stay to guard Carthage, the rest are moved outside the target. At the cost of some casualties, Utica is captured in 900BC and an important great leader emerges. The clever anarchs send it immediately into Carthage where it rushes the Pyramids. They also sign peace with Carthage, is a situation where it would be unconvenient to prosecute the war.

In 875BC, the American Kingdom is established, in coincidence with the beginning of a prosperous Golden Age. From here, the American History is essentially a sequence of war reports.

850BC: End of a phony war with Japan, that was declares eons ago only to capture a settler.

750BC: First Greek war. The near greek city of Corinth grows size 2. Monarchy is sold to Greece, then war is declared. Two stacks are sent outside the cities of Corinth and Sparta.

730BC: Corinth and Sparta captured, with little resistance from the natives. 3rd luxury secured (dyes);

670BC: Founded the 1st city on the western island, still deserted.

670BC: Second Roman war. We gift Monarchy to Rome, then declare war. Troops from Corinth move outside Antium, the new capital.

650BC: Antium is captured. Signed peace with Greece, extorting 2 undeveloped cities that would have been autorazed if taken with the military. They will be important space fillers.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37263/1156158600.jpg

610BC: Second Punic war. Troops move outside Theveste, the new Carthaginian capital, that is still size 1 but has grown to rank 2.

590BC: Theveste captured. Heavy casualties reported, that city was on a hill and had 3 damned mercs defending.

570BC: Second Japanese war. Japanese troops are wandering from a while into American lends. It is time to lure them into a war. They are asked to leave or declare and they declare. The intruders, archers and warriors, are easily dispatched.

530BC: Captured the Japanese city of Edo.

510BC: Peace with Carthage. Extorted the city of Hippo, another important space filler. Carthage plays OCC in Leptis Magna.

490BC: Third Punic war. Razed a Roman city, land resettled immediately. Rome playing OCC in Cumae. In the same turn we infamously redeclare on Carthage and move outside their last city.

470BC: Carthage is destroyed. Leptis Magna is captured and Carthage is out of the game. 2nd leader generated. After some consideration, it is sent into Rome to rush the FP there. A rush in Carthage would have earned more money (Colossus), but this other option will speed up the training of new units.

In retrospective, i can't tell what of the 2 choices was the better one :rolleyes:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37263/1156158789.gif

Things looks much better now. The ex Carthaginian space (SE peninsula) is going to be filled with 2 settlers. Carthage will grow rank 3 and the city of Hippo will rush a temple. Those 2 cultural growths will fill further useful tiles. Cumae (Rome) is going to grow rank 2 and will be assimilated, claiming more extra space. In the NW area, troops are amassing to strike at China. A combat settler will found a city inside the Chinese borders and troops will be sent quickly to the capital.

The offensive on Japan continues, and Greece won't be difficult to assimilate once a settler has placed a city between Antium and Athens.

430BC: The Romans are history. Completed the Forbidden Palace in the city of Rome. In the same turn, Cumae is captured and Rome is no more. In the northern front, the Japanese city of Osaka is captured.

Peace is signed with Japan. We extort the city of Satsuma on the western island. Important acquisition for space filling purposes.

In the core area, we're rushing settlers to colonize the western island before the AS reach it. China manages to snatch a city, but it won't be a problem.

390BC: RoP with Japan.

370BC: Chinese war. The stack of troops splits in 2: one goes for the city of Shangai, the other with the settler goes for Beijing;

350BC: Shangai captured. Combat fort founded. Troops outside Beijing.

330BC: Beijing captured. Troops outside Nanking, that will be spared until growth. Stack moving for the new capital. A quick and dirty job:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37263/1156159011.jpg

The turning point is here. The image shows two escorted settlers moving to their locations. The 2 cities founded there will be essential space fillers.

In the western island, the city of Tsingtao has been captured. It had only 1 warrior garrisoned. A sword + settler pair was landed from a boat. The sword killed the warrior and captured the city, while the settler moved west to found another important space filler city.

330BC: Second Greek war. A combat fort is founded between Athens and Antium, and troops from 2 directions are outside Athens.

310BC: Greece is destroyed. Athens is captured. Thermopylae is autorazed and Greece is no more. Settlers are already moving to reclaim the open space. Failed attack at Nanking, but reinforcement will be ready to strike next turn.

290BC: China is destroyed. Captured Nanking and Canton. Japan is raped and the 2 remaining cities are both captured. The Japanese are still in the game, they must have some boat people around. A chinese settler wandering in the mountains is captured and China is gone.

Three space-filler cities are also founded this turn. In the interturn, a cultural growth brings the amount of controlled land 5 tiles beyond the domination limit.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/37263/1156159214.jpg

Domination is finally achieved in 270 BC.

@tR1cKy: Great game and even greater write-up! :goodjob: :worship: