Duties of Domestic Minister
*In charge of all workers.
*Assigns citizens to tiles.
*In charge of :science: and :culture: rates.
*First back-up turn player.

Deputy
Sweetacshon

Discussions:
Link to where we should settle our first city (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=178106)

City Azelatrof
building Warrior(no brainer)
In que: Work boat/warrior/worker(after at least size 2) need to decide at the time

Research
Mining
On deck: Animal Husbandry
In the hole: agr/hunt for AH more time needed to decide

Techs already known
Fishing
The Wheel

I will bring up discussion here and in other threads as the need arises.

Need a deputy?

just offered in the other thread..its yours

Great analysis

figure this is as good a place as any to keep the discussion on techs and build que.

As far as techs..AH or mining. AH becasue of the sheep and mining due to the fact that we need it for bronze. Doesnt matter which one first but I am more inclined to AH so that our worker has something to do.

Build que...warrior then WB. We need the clams to give us a settler and worker production boost. Even if we start the worker at size 2 or size 3 it will speed up the completion of them... I will run a simulation if you want.

Animal porn seems fine, as does the work boat.

it doesnt matter so much which one we go for because your build queue says that we wont be building a worker till after a warrior and WB, which will be awhile.

Yep, then maybe mining first, as we have enough food from the clams, the extra prod'n from a mine might be more useful?

Well even then we will have a warrior in 8 then a worker in not sure but during that time we will have had the opportunity to research both of them.

That's why you're in charge! :)

work boat is optional..we can discuss it

Ok well i think we should go for AH first, we need to see whether in the future we can use cossacks :)

when you get close to having the warrior...let us know the build times for workboat. Slow expansion in the begining isnt that horrible if we are relatively far from anyone. We shouldnt be too crowded.

Ok well i think we should go for AH first, we need to see whether in the future we can use cossacks :)
Alas, with or without horses, we can never use cossacks. :sad:

Alas, with or without horses, we can never use cossacks. :sad:


crap well arn't i just getting my team games mixed up!

Ok well then mining first, it'll help for when we produce settlers/workers.

Don't forget that in once case, with 'proper' city placement, the borders of two civs will bump into each other. Keep our eyes peeled.

Ok well i think we should go for AH first, we need to see whether in the future we can use cossacks :)

I missed this too...I wonder why?

So lets all draw attention to it shall we :p ;)

Don't forget that in once case, with 'proper' city placement, the borders of two civs will bump into each other. Keep our eyes peeled.
Actually when releasing the screenshots to the teams, DaveShack posted this in the UN thread:
Starting screenshots and password confirmations have been sent to each team. The starting saves will be distributed shortly, and the "game information" threads will be converted to turn trackers. Information on the admin userids to send copies of saves to will also be included at that time.

These are fresh maps, and that's all we're going to say about them. :D
So we might not have to worry about that.

Might.

updatd...first post. every time something changes I will update it.

Sweet, I would like some feed back on build que and tech list. Everyone else is welcome to reply also. I figure we have a few days but we need to get started talking.

From what i remember from our tech options, we cant research AH, we need to research either agriculture or hunting first.

Also toku starts with the wheel.

crap. yeah I am fixing it.. Hut or agr will depend on what our scout finds.:)

Sorry, boss :)

I'm having wireless network problems, so less time online, as I don't like having to run a 10m cable thru the kitchen all the time. That's what I get for trusting their firmwear upgrades!:mad: Will be on sporadically.

Well.. techs.... techs... if we've decided to head for AH, then I think thru hunting.
1. We simply don't need farms in the capital... ever.
2. Can make a scout
3. Opens archery just in case someone starts getting aggressive (however unlikely)

Builds - well most of the "good start" strats say worker first, but in MP, you can never be too careful, I guess. Probably a work boat will be more useful initially than a worker, but I haven't looked at the numbers yet. I guess this
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154872
is the article I am thinking about. Although in our case, the best value tiles would be the clams (will examine closer soon), ie highest F+H, so we should probably get those hooked up first.

About techs: we're Toku, our UU is Samurai, and it needs Iron, not Iron or copper. So I suggest going for bronze working + iron working before we finish our first settler. We need metals and seeing that Sirian made this map, I wouldn't be surprised if the metals were placed in a way that there will be fighting about them.

I second dutchfire's comments; with this game being MP, we'd better focus on getting the warfare branches of this tech tree...

A couple of screenies for info purposes:

133584133585

I had a bit of a look at the save, and it seems to me that
warrior > workboat > worker is best, although I looked too hard and am feeling quite confused now. :confused:

We have so many "bonus" tiles to work, I think getting pop up asap. If we decide to go straight for IW, I'd even prefer warrior > workboat > workboat (even tho I cut off the calc :))


Dammit, the 1st one cut off, I cant be bothered rewriting for warrior>w/b>w/b. It was about 2 turns better than w/b, w/b, warrior.

workboat > workboat > worker
11 turns = 22H w/b, 22F pop
Turn 12: Using 2 silk tiles + city = 6F, 3H
4 turns, w/b, 8F
Turn 16: Using 1 silk, 1 improved clam + city = 8F, 2H
4 turns, 8H on w/b, 24F pop
Turn 20: Using 2 silk, 1 clam + city = 10F, 3H
7 turns, 29H on w/b, 26F pop
Turn 29: Using 3 silk, 1 clam + city = 12F, 4H
1 turns, w/b, 4F
4 turns warrior, 20F
Turn 33: 4 pop, 2 w/b, warrior.

warrior > workboat > worker
Turn 1: Using silk tile + city = 4F, 2H
8 turns, 1 warrior,
3 turns = 6H w/b, 22F pop
Turn 12: Using 2 silk tiles + city = 6F, 3H
8 turns, w/b, 16F
Turn 20: Using 1 silk, 1 improved clam + city = 8F, 2H
10 turns, worker
Turn 30: 2 pop (2 turns to pop), warrior, w/b, worker. If tech mining>hunting>A
H, should be able to pasture our most prod've sheep tile now.

Workboat > worker > warrior
Turn 1: Using silk tile + city = 4F, 2H
11 turns = 22H w/b, 22F pop
Turn 12: Using 2 silk tiles + city = 6F, 3H
4 turns, w/b, 8F
Turn 16: Using 1 silk, 1 improved clam + city = 8F, 2H
10 turns, worker
4 turns, 8H warrior, 24F pop
Turn 30: Using 2 silk, 1 clam + city = 10F, 3H

warrior > workboat > worker (swapping)
Turn 1: Using silk tile + city = 4F, 2H
8 turns, 1 warrior,
3 turns = 6H w/b, 22F pop
Turn 12: Using 1 silk tiles, sheep hill + city = 5F, 4H
6 turns, w/b, 5F
Turn 18: Using 1 silk, 1 improved clam + city = 8F, 2H
10 turns, worker
Turn 28: Using 1 clam, sheep + city = 7F, 3H
Turn 30: 2 pop (5 turns to pop), warrior, w/b,worker,4H on w/b. If tech mining>hunting>A
H, should be able to pasture our most prod've sheep tile now.

dang sweet...you must have about as much of a life as me( ie NONE)

OK we are mining right now..I think we go hunting next and then look at the situation.

I think after this warrior we go workboat. We can switch out if we need to. And change the third build to suit our needs

I second dutchfire's comments; with this game being MP, we'd better focus on getting the warfare branches of this tech tree...
Aye, and remember, the last three teams move on to the finals. That means four must perish in the pursuit of this goal. So when we meet our first neighbor, they'll either want to be our ally, or want us dead. I'd support an alliance with every site, except for GCA. They have proven so unstable in the past that unless we watch them like parents to be sure they're remaining peaceful, we are at risk.

I support the mining -> hunting tech queue.

I'd support an alliance with every site, except for GCA. They have proven so unstable in the past that unless we watch them like parents to be sure they're remaining peaceful, we are at risk.

I support the mining -> hunting tech queue.

Come on, you know you want to beat up CBR... :p

Mining -> Bronze -> Iron -> Hunting -> Animal Husbandry is my preferred tech queue, but the order doesn't matter so much as we get those techs. Hopefully we can claim some quick resources.

Mining -> Bronze -> Iron -> Hunting -> Animal Husbandry is my preferred tech queue

Same with me, I think Mining -> Bronze -> Hunting -> Animal Husbandry -> Iron working is ok if we've got copper near us, otherwise Ironworking earlier.

I think if we dont have any copper around us we should grab archery after hunting.

I think we should go for Iron then, because I think it's pretty likely Sirian hid the metals or placed them in hard spots. If we can see them earlier, we have a better chance at getting them.

But hunting/archery will be cheaper-also no need to connect the metals.

Simply because there are barbs in this game and by that point we are going to need more than warriors to put up a defence to them.

OK question...can we get mining and hunting then BW before we pop off a settler.... I think we can.

The second city doesnt HAVE to be by the metal...you settle it in a good solid spot. Even if the metal is a good distance away you may pass on settling the city there.

You then can go archery to cover our butts from barbs i fwe dont see any copper..

One point..lets relax a bit and get the first tech done.

I'm not that worried about barbs, I'm more worried about aggresive neighbours.

As am i, therefore we are going to need protection and the archers will do just that if we dont have copper nearby.

BC/Dutch OK so what do you want next....( i feel like we are talking in circles)

BW then hunt then archer/AH
(arch if no metal/AH if there is)
---OR---
Hunt then BW then Arch/AH(arch if no metal AH if there is).


In my mind...IW is the almost a certain 5th tech..unless we need another quicky worker tech for the cities.

Bronze working next

Then if we can't see anything hunting/archery.

I'd say bronze working next, and then decide again basing our decision on what we know of the map (enemies near etc)

...you must have about as much of a life as me( ie NONE)

You're telling me?! :) A standard, half-arsed time wasting exercise when there was something more important to do in RL.

I agree with BW, we have the luxury of not needing worker techs right away due to the clams.

I found out a way to solve this little disagreement between the pair of you

here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=179287)

There ya go now fight it out between yourselves there-good job im in charge to resolve these matters.

I agree with BW ONLY if we build a WB. We need the growth and have a 4+ food/hammer tile before the settler in order to make the build quicker.

/I commented in your poll

Ahhh... I thought you'd alreday decided on the w/b, and yes, that makes sense.

Its always open for discussion...

IF the W/B would have taken us to size 4 then I would have built a little then worker then w/b then settler. Now I feel he HAVE to go w/b in order to get the workers and settler out quicker since we wont have the sheep or anythign that makes more than 3 food.

Well the warrior shall be finishing in 4 turns if i remember rightly, domestic got anything to tell me to do?

tSeems find right now. about 1 turn before warrior could you tell us how long for workboat and warrior.

3 turns = 6H w/b, 22F pop
Turn 12: Using 2 silk tiles + city = 6F, 3H
8 turns = 24H, 16F

Ahh... was hoping it wasn't all a waste of time :) Workboat should take 11 turns, assuming the pop works the silk tile.

just trying to make BC feel like he was needed ;)

But somebody has to do whatever we decide! :p

What tech are we going for next?

What tech are we going for next?

According to the chat with BAT we're going for IW next. I'm not sure if its going to be immediately or what.

IW if that swhat we told BAT. IF Copper is around I woudl be tempted to grab something else then IW..

SAILING...we are going to need it

OK here is my orders..if you disagree let me know.

IF copper is in our borders OR we can grab it with a close by city..ie fat crosses touch..tehn we go for sailing. IF it is further away or we dont see it go for IW.

We have time to grab both before BAT finishes their end of the deal

OR

We go iron working then Metal working and run at the colosous...a great water map wonder

Discuss and tell me what you think

I think that sailing will be a big help in exploring this map and delivering a few spearmen to GCA before they can get any keshiks to us.

Aye, galleys will be a big aid in exploring.

Sounds good it me. As long as we have IW for BAT to keep our end of the deal. Sailing will probably be vital for this map as the seas will provide shortcut for our units to travirse. I very much want to get the locations of all the people we know.

While I'm a fan of the Collosus in a situation like this, I definately think we could slip sailing in next.

OK its decided.
No copper in our captial or within5 tiles of our border...we go for iron. IF copper is that close..we get sailing. Tehn IW then MW.

besides Collosus...the great lighthouse is a winner on this type map...extra trade routes are cash without changing what you tiles you work.

Well both seem a nice idea but we need to make sure we are very adequatly defended during the build of both.

i agree with sailing then we may as well start grabbing the religion techs towards theocracy.

Personally i would go for the Collosus only as you get the bonus no matter what. The GL is good given most cities will be on the coast for this map but the extra trade route might end up wasted if we don't have OB agreements in place with enough teams to make it worth the effort. If there is a wonder i would recommend getting later on if someone hasn't built it is hanging gardens. In the pitboss game i'm playing by the time i built it i had seven cities and it only took 4 turns. That gave me 7 extra tiles for working instantly and it doesn't empty the saved up food either, plus it gives you the health for the extra pop too.

In the pitboss game i'm playing by the time i built it i had seven cities and it only took 4 turns. That gave me 7 extra tiles for working instantly and it doesn't empty the saved up food either, plus it gives you the health for the extra pop too.
What are the odds it'll still be around when everyone has seven cities? :sad:

well you dont have to have 7 cities to build it.... I think he's just saying its a nice optional extra-it was still around in our 18 player game where there are a lot of good players.

Right HG is a good one. G. Lighthouse is lessened in multiplayer especially small numbered MP games.

Collosous is a good water wonder.

Since we have friends...we can direct them away from techs that have the wonders we want..again..losing a few beakers in trade value to research a wonder tech..is worth it. We need to think ahead adn manipulate our friends to go for the "right" techs while we get "stuck" doing the tecsh that only give wonders :)

Never mention a wonder in diplo...you lose your advantage.(Robi told me he was getting the hanging gardens..in 2 or 3 turns....so I put my city on it...to get the gold.) Thanks Robi.

Well that could be a good diplomatic thing to tell an ally for some extra gold.

Also i dont like to plan a game around getting a wonder-if you fail your up poo creek so while we should aim to get one we shouldnt let it make or break the game.

Right never let going to for a wonder break your game. But with Wonders that neeed a prebuild forge for collosous..you need to plan ahead.

What are the odds it'll still be around when everyone has seven cities? :sad:

In all human games pretty good, since the focus is more on military a lot of wonders fall through the cracks. Look at the pitboss game, you were able to build the collosus in something like 1300AD:).

The point is not waiting for 7 cities, but i wouldn't build HG until we had at least 4 or 5 otherwise it effect is wasted a little. The thing with HG is you need to have an aquaduct so i've noticed in in games with the AI it doesn't get built right away.


Never mention a wonder in diplo...you lose your advantage.(Robi told me he was getting the hanging gardens..in 2 or 3 turns....so I put my city on it...to get the gold.) Thanks Robi.

I was being nice to you, and from what i remember it was one turn away

hey it was still some gold :) and I ran full production and had people starving to get the extra hammers.

You being nice or not...I bet you didnt think I was going to switch just for a little gold.

In all human games pretty good, since the focus is more on military a lot of wonders fall through the cracks. Look at the pitboss game, you were able to build the collosus in something like 1300AD:).

The point is not waiting for 7 cities, but i wouldn't build HG until we had at least 4 or 5 otherwise it effect is wasted a little. The thing with HG is you need to have an aquaduct so i've noticed in in games with the AI it doesn't get built right away.
All true. :thumbsup: :king: