Version: C3C 1.22
Difficulty: Demigod
Variant: Zero research. We are not allowed to use the great library either.
VC: All enabled, all allowed. Unless we want to specify SS? :crazyeye:
Settings: Open to discussion. 'pelago or pangaea? goody huts allowed?
Rules: Reputation good, exploits bad.

Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus
Despair888
HomeyG
Tribute
Beorn-el-Feared?

'pelago'

What is it?

Edit: OK, brain is now in gear - ignore my question.

What is it?

Edit: OK, brain is now in gear - ignore my question.

:D You will certainly fit in around here. Brains in neutral happens a lot.

I would like to join.

This could definitely be pretty interesting. Looking forward to it.

I suppose I can spare the time. Sign me up! Everyone knows I need the experience. Also, I vote for pangaea.

Forgot about that, hmm though... I vote Pangaea, no goody huts.

Demigod is probably too high for me. I'll lurk :)

OK, pangaea, no goody huts works for me, we may as well make it tough. I will randomly pick a civ I haven't played lately, and roll a few starts. I'll post them tonight. In fact, after thinking about it quickly, pangaea, no goody huts is simply screaming out for Portugal. (This is Idiot Academy thinking for those who haven't encountered it before.) Any particularly strenuous objections to Portugal?

Sounds fine to me. We're only playing on Demigod. Portugal, no science, pangaea, and no goody huts should definately be fun. Of course, I'm not too particular on what civ we play as.

would love to join.
if no room is left, i will happily lurk.

Screaming Portugal, huh? Is that for the difficulty?
Let's see. Seafaring=bad for pangaea Expansionist=bad with no huts

Okay, I guess. Though this will be very hard. However, it might be better (for me) with a non-expansionist agricultural type civ.

Screaming Portugal, huh? Is that for the difficulty?
Let's see. Seafaring=bad for pangaea Expansionist=bad with no huts

Less for the difficulty, and more based on the sounds like a good idea at the time theory of civving.

Okay, I guess. Though this will be very hard. However, it might be better (for me) with a non-expansionist agricultural type civ.

Despite the no huts, EXP isn't as bad as it seems. Our only way to get techs is via trade, and one of the biggest things that help early trades is early contacts, especially when it lets you play middleman between AIs that don't know each other. I have no idea how tough this will be, but out-expanding demigod AIs is very doable, with proper trading and proper warring, it shouldn't be that tough. I know I said I'll post starts tonight, but I got sidetracked. They'll be posted tomorrow.

I did forget to ask this before though. Roughly what level are you guys at? I am assuming everyone is comfortable beating at least Emperor?

I've only played above Emperor twice. I won both times on Demi-God and Deity. So I think I should be okay. Most of the time I play on Emperor, sometimes Monarch.

On the Expansionist, we could turn goody huts on if you wanted. Even without goody huts though, Expansionist is not a terrible trait. The early contacts will come in handy since we won't be able to research techs. Entirely up to you if you want them on or off, makes no difference to me.

Emperor. I'm playing (and winning) a Demigod game though.

And of course I didn't forget the early contact part. It's just that the goody huts would be bonus. (unless we have the AI popping huts and getting settlers and techs)

My last two games were DG; they were more nail-biting than comfortable but I won both.

Your roster looks fuller than full and I need the extra time, thus I'll leave my chair for someone else. Only reasons though :(

When was this going to get started?

I believe that the Civ-Fanatics here desire to begin the SG, Sanabas. Would you like to play the first set/roll the start? Or are you going to pass it on to someone else?

Your roster looks fuller than full and I need the extra time, thus I'll leave my chair for someone else. Only reasons though :(

No worries. I expect to see Idiot Academy advice through the game.

]I believe that the Civ-Fanatics here desire to begin the SG, Sanabas. Would you like to play the first set/roll the start? Or are you going to pass it on to someone else?

Start coming soon. I'll play the first set.

Start coming soon. I'll play the first set.


Awesome. This should definitely be a good one.

Idiot Academy advice: Might as well pick a civ with tradeable early techs, AKA no SCI/REL thing where you're stuck with everyone having researched your things before you even meet. Someone like France or Carthage where you can begin on maths at 0% right away and feel like you're headed MUCH faster towards mathematics than when you weren't helping research.

OK, we are away, and currently the tech leaders.

The start:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/sana06start.jpg
4000BC: Lisbon founded in place, starts a scout, worker to irrigate the wheat.

3750BC: Scout finished, start a worker

3650BC: Mett mayans, arabs.
Alphabet + 10 gold gets us Masonry from the Mayans.
Masonry gets us Ceremonial Burial + 10 gold from the Arabs.

3600BC: Spot a 5 cow, multiple factory location to the east, and change lisbon to a settler. I want us to have the cows, I don't want the Arabs to expand into them.

3500BC: Alphabet to Arabia gives us Warrior Code
Warrior Code to Maya gives us 20 gold.

3350BC: Meet the Zulu

3150BC: Lisbon settler -->worker

3000BC: Meet the Ottomans, give them Pottery for Bronze Working and 10 gold.
Oporto founded, starts a settler.

I think we should be setting up 3 or 4 settler/worker factories near all that beef, and then expanding like crazy. Rest of the empire can suply troops. Currently, Hovind of the Luddites is #1 in the tech race, and yet to be busted for tax evasion.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/sana063000bc.jpg

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Sana06_3000_BC.SAV)

Roster:

Sanabas - just played
Bucephalus - up
Despair888 - on deck
HomeyG
Tribute
Beorn-el-Feared - Idiot emeritus and advisor

REMEMBER: We are not to do a single beaker of research ever.

Hovind sure could spew information fast.

EDIT: Can we use Specialists for Scientists?

EDIT: Can we use Specialists for Scientists?

That would be doing research. Sci rate will always be zero, we will never hire a scientist.

That would be doing research. Sci rate will always be zero, we will never hire a scientist.

I figured so, still thought it may be better to ask though.

EDIT: I take it 10 turns, or?

Hamburgers, steaks, anyone?

I figured so, still thought it may be better to ask though.

EDIT: I take it 10 turns, or?

According to the roster, it's me. Can you confirm, Sanabas?

According to the roster, it's me. Can you confirm, Sanabas?

Works for me. And yeah, 10 turns per set. Can be shorter later in the game if turns are ridiculously long.

Pre-turn: Change Lisbon build to Warrior – we have no protection if the Mayan Warrior chooses to attack.

2950 BC - Warrior completed in Lisbon, begin Worker.

2900 BC - Lisbon Worker completes mine, assign to adjacent BG and begin mine.

2850 BC – Ottomans have the Wheel, but will not trade.

2750 BC - Lisbon grows and produces worker; begins settler. Worker2 assigned to riverside BG.

2710 BC - Trade Alphabet + 35g to the Zulu for the Wheel. Worker2 begins mine. Arabs have Mysticism but will not trade. We have horses nearby (yippee!)

2670 BC – Porto grows, lux slider to 50% to prevent disorder. Arabs found Baghdad near Beef :sad:

2630 BC – Worker finishes mine, moves to BG.

2550 BC – Trade 170g with the Arabs for Mysticism.

As you see, things are crowded already.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Luddites.JPG

The Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hovind_of_the_Luddites,_2550_BC.SAV

*edit*Removed, you edited the screeny link already. But in the future, can we please crop screenies so we don't have to scroll sideways.*/edit*


2850 BC – Ottomans have the Wheel, but will not trade.

2710 BC - Trade Alphabet + 35g to the Zulu for the Wheel. Worker2 begins mine. Arabs have Mysticism but will not trade. We have horses nearby (yippee!)

2550 BC – Trade 170g with the Arabs for Mysticism.


Were we able to on-trade this stuff to others? Were all these techs available from everyone? If we buy all our techs at monopoly rates, or close to, we will run out of money quickly. If we don't need specific techs, we don't have an opportunity to trade them on to offset the cost, and if the price will come down as others discover it, there is no need to pay for it. 50% lux seems very high as well, might be better to move Lisbon's MP to Oporto?


Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus
Despair888 - up
HomeyG - on deck
Tribute
Beorn-el-Feared - Idiot emeritus and advisor

REMEMBER: We are not to do a single beaker of research ever.

OK, I just had a quick look at the game. We are playing no research, so two things are really important. Efficient trading, and getting contacts with everyone that will help us trade efficiently. We have paid 170g to the Ottomans for Mysticism. Why? There is no opportunity for us to trade it anywhere else to offset our cost. We don't need mysticism, as it doesn't help us at all. So why buy it? As for exploring, our western scout hasn't met anyone, because unfortunately the mayans are the only ones out there. But the eastern scout hasn't met anyone, and actually appears not to have explored a single black square, it seems to have spent the last 10 turns moving back north through already explored territory. Why?

If anywhere needs MP, it is oporto. It also needs commerce, and cows irrigated too. More commerce or mp will let us drop the lux rate from 50% to 10-20%.

Baghdad isn't a problem yet, we can still drop a city 2 SE of Oporto, on the river, to take all the cows for ourself, and to keep our expansion up. Arabs will probably be our first war though I think. On top of the horse also looks a good city location.

OK, I just had a quick look at the game. We are playing no research, so two things are really important. Efficient trading, and getting contacts with everyone that will help us trade efficiently. We have paid 170g to the Ottomans for Mysticism. Why? There is no opportunity for us to trade it anywhere else to offset our cost. We don't need mysticism, as it doesn't help us at all.

Of course we need it - it is a required tech.




But the eastern scout hasn't met anyone, and actually appears not to have explored a single black square, it seems to have spent the last 10 turns moving back north through already explored territory. Why?

It may seem that way but a comparison of the two saves will show you to be wrong; little progress occured because you left it mired in swamp.

If anywhere needs MP, it is oporto. It also needs commerce, and cows irrigated too. More commerce or mp will let us drop the lux rate from 50% to 10-20%.

The Warrior wasn't built as an MP. It was built to offer protection from the Mayan Warrior on our border. Building a settler in Oporto was your decision, IMHO a worker and Warrior would have been a better choice; lux at 50% is directly because there are no improved tiles, a consequence of your choice.


Perhaps in future it would be an idea if you expanded on your ideas, and generate discussion. Each player has his own style and cannot second-guess what another may do differently.

Of course we need it - it is a required tech.

Not what I meant. Why do we need Mysticism now? What benefit do we get by paying monopoly prices to get Mysticism now, instead of half that price to get Mysticism later?


It may seem that way but a comparison of the two saves will show you to be wrong; little progress occured because you left it mired in swamp.

Well yeah, I saw the orange borders, so I made contact. But why go north into already explored territory, instead of east into the blackness? What are we trying to accomplish by moving the scout? What's the best direction to move to accomplish this?


The Warrior wasn't built as an MP. It was built to offer protection from the Mayan Warrior on our border. Building a settler in Oporto was your decision, IMHO a worker and Warrior would have been a better choice; lux at 50% is directly because there are no improved tiles, a consequence of your choice.

So change it to worker and warrior, it had no shields in the box when you started your set. The tiles need improving, so give the tiles a worker to do it.


Perhaps in future it would be an idea if you expanded on your ideas, and generate discussion. Each player has his own style and cannot second-guess what another may do differently.

Sure, that's one of the joys of SGs. I'm not trying to, nor do I want to be telling everyone how to play. But what I do expect is that people do things for a reason, that they have put thought into their decisions. The more you think about what you do, the more your game will improve. Building the warrior in Lisbon is something you thought about, that was done for a reason, and is a decision you can justify. What I want is for the same thought to be put into exploring/contact searching, and especially into trading.

Perhaps in future it would be an idea if you expanded on your ideas, and generate discussion. Each player has his own style and cannot second-guess what another may do differently.

That's the sucky part of succession games. However, think about the good side of things. We've got a nice wonder city (Oporto) for either the Pyramids or the GLib and a nice settler factory (Lisbon). And if you really want we've got two settler factories already. We've got lots of gpt and many techs already.

But I have to agree with Sanabas in that we have to buy techs for either trading or when everyone else has them, and we need them for either advancing to new techs/ages or for building units/wonders/buildings.

That's the sucky part of succession games. However, think about the good side of things. We've got a nice wonder city (Oporto) for either the Pyramids or the GLib and a nice settler factory (Lisbon). And if you really want we've got two settler factories already. We've got lots of gpt and many techs already.

We're not building the GLib. I think I said that somewhere, but I may have forgotten. No science includes no using GL to generate our science. We don't have settler factories yet, we have no granaries. Why do you want to build the Pyramids?

But I have to agree with Sanabas in that we have to buy techs for either trading or when everyone else has them, and we need them for either advancing to new techs/ages or for building units/wonders/buildings.

You have no argument from me on that - I accept that I cocked-up; in mitigation I will say that I have never played zero science before, the main reason for joining this game. So apologies to all, but I will learn from this.

Oh yeah, and while I'm *****ing about things, I'll get this one out of my system too. Lisbon has 3 fully improved squares already, 1 irr wheat, 2 mined BGs. It is size 3, soon to drop to size 1, so it is at least 15 turns away from needing to work more than 3 tiles. Oporto has no improved tiles, and is desperate for them, as evidenced by our 50% lux rate. And yet both our workers are improving surplus squares by Lisbon, and ignoring important squares by Oporto. Why?

Got this one also.

I'll play both within a few hours. (Provided RaR works for me on the other one this time)

You have no argument from me on that - I accept that I cocked-up; in mitigation I will say that I have never played zero science before, the main reason for joining this game. So apologies to all, but I will learn from this.

Cool. I'm not actually as cranky as my posts are sounding, so apologies if I'm being too harsh about stuff. The importance of trading properly is amplified in a no-science game, but it is still plenty important in other games. Early contacts + good trading make a huge difference, and good trading makes a huge difference at any point in the game. If you get the chance to play middleman, you can turn a tech into 3 or 4, or use cash to leverage yourself back up the tech tree, etc. In some cases, you can outlay cash to buy a tech, sell it off for another tech, sell that tech back to the first civ and get your cash back. You're essentially getting multiple techs for free by using your contacts. You said your last 2 games were nailbiters on DG, I suspect if you play the first 50-80 turns better, DG will be comfortable, and you can start biting your nails on deity. Last time I ranted about trades, someone linked to an article on trading, so I'm sure someone can do that again. Basically, you should only trade for stuff if you need the tech right now, you have the opportunity to sell the tech off to offset the cost, or you're getting value for your own techs before they get spread around. Getting it just because it's there is expensive and wasteful.

IBT - Maya are building Pyramids
Arabs are building The Oracle

2510 BC - Scouts move. Worker building road next to Lisbon heads to Oporto.

IBT - Nothing

2470 BC - Scouts move. Both workers headed to Oporto

IBT - Mayan warrior approaches Lisbon.

2430 BC - Oporto is in disorder. Mayan warrior three tiles away from Lisbon.Settler is built in Lisbon, starts Granary. Worker still on way to Oporto. Don't want to move Warrior from Lisbon with the possibility of a Mayan attack.

IBT - Mayan warrior moves SW.

2390 BC - Settler moves NW. Scouts move. Oporto still in disorder. Decide to send Warrior for MP to Oporto.

IBT - We see Ottoman spearman E of Oporto. Mayan Warrior moves away from Lisbon. Yey! :D

2350 BC - Settler moves W. Warrior heads to Oporto. We meet Byzantines. Worker roads.

IBT - Mayan Warrior moves away from Lisbon again.

2310 BC - Guimaraes founded NW of Lisbon by Horses, starts worker. MP reaches Oporto.

IBT - Zulu are building Pyramids.

2270 BC - Nothing Special. Move scouts.

IBT - Ottoman Spearman two tiles away from Oporto.

2230 BC - Move Scouts.

IBT - Give into to Arabian demand for 20 gold.

2190 BC - Scouts move.

IBT - Ottoman Spearman gets closer to Oporto, looks to just be passing through.

2150 BC - Oporto finishes Settler! Oporto starts warrior (Not sure how to go with it, next person feel free to change it). Settler moves SE, can't reach the best spot. Worker starts road near Guimaraes.

Overall Thoughts - We are now three techs behind the Ottomans. Zululand, Ottomans, and the Arabs all have iron working. No trades could be made for iron working or the other Ottoman techs. Lux slider is at 20%. We are getting 10 GPT per turn. We can get Iron Working, but it costs 6 GPT, Our gold, and
Mysticism to Zululand, however, Mayans are the only ones who don't have it so we couldn't be able to get anything in return for it. Horseback riding and Mathematics can't be bought from the Ottomans. Doesn't look near as good now.

Oporto should make at least 1 if not 2 workers. The answer to sanabas's question about why the workers are not moved there is that it would be a horrendous waste of worker turns. Besides, isn't Lisbon going to become a 4 turn settler factory?

And about the Pyramids, tee hee! I've been rather obsessed with wonders since I started playing. Don't mind that comment. We shouldn't build it.

As for trading, we should wait for a monopolized IW and take it later with other trades. As for HB and maths, those are common techs researched by the AI. We just need to find more. In fact, do we have 2 curraghs out yet? It's too late now though.

Settler factory. Do we need it? Granary in Lisbon would be needed now, if so.
And as for Oporto, what will we build with it? Just extra settlers, right?

Oh, and homeyg is up. (I'm after.)

I set Lisbon to Granary after the original settler there was finished.

I didn't switch Oporto because it was already very far along on the production of its settler. Mysticism did nothing for us. We do need to try to make more contacts.

I moved one of our scouts in good position to keep finding more civs. We did find the Byzatines in my turn also. The other scout had nowhere to go for the most part, so he's just now getting back on track.

We don't have any curraghs, Lisbon was producing a settler and Oporto isn't on the coast. I do think we could definately use the settler factory.

We don't have any curraghs

Do we really need them? We are on Pangea, and have met nearly everyone.

Do we really need them? We are on Pangea, and have met nearly everyone.

Heh. We haven't met everyone. It may have been more useful earlier on, but so were the settlers, so, meh. We are on Pangaea, yes. I don't think we need them, but one would be nice to get us some contacts. Considering we are now falling behind in the tech race since most of our gold was spent on a tech we can't trade. Curraghs are still very useful on Pangaea. I think we may want to get one or two of them, but it'd be best if Lisbon didn't have to make them.

IA Advice: You are portugal, scouts will be more efficient 95% of the time in netting you contacts, and besides they scout land and potential settling sites.

IA Advice: You are portugal, scouts will be more efficient 95% of the time in netting you contacts, and besides they scout land and potential settling sites.

Very true. I still think one may have been nice.

Got it (10).

Ok, I might have missed this somewhere, but where the heck is that settler produced by Oporto supposed to be going?

Well, he is supposed to be settling again near the cattle, either straight one spot South of the Ottoman Spearman or where the Ottoman Spearman is currently standing.

Basically, near the cattle S-SE of Oporto.

Well, he is supposed to be settling again near the cattle, either straight one spot South of the Ottoman Spearman or where the Ottoman Spearman is currently standing.

Basically, near the cattle S-SE of Oporto.

Alright, that's what I assumed.

Alright, I will probably be flamed to no end for this turnset, but here it goes.

2150 BC - Everything looks good, just wondering where the hell that settler is headed to. Lisbon can and needs to be turned into a 4 turn factory.

IBT: Nothing, Guimaraes: warrior -> worker.

Turn 1, 2110 BC - Change tiles worked in Lisbon to have granary produced 1 turn before growth, same amount of sheilds being produced. Move warrior from Guimaraes towards Lisbon for mp. Meet the Iroquois with eastern scout. Move settler to the location 2 southeast of Oporto.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 2, 2070 BC - Found Lagos, 2 southeast of Oporto, begin on worker. Change production in Oporto from warrior to settler.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 3, 2030 BC - Warrior arrives at Lisbon, luxury lowered to 10%. Move worker towards second wheat near Libson, planning to mine.

Do a quick little diplomacy check, everyone except the Zulu has Mathematics. Buy math from the Iroquois for 11 gpt and 51 gold. Get Iron Working from Zulu for Math + 1 gpt.

Now, I know this will put us down for a while, but are we just going to sit on our asses while all the iron is gobbled up?

IBT: Of course, Maya demands Iron Working. I have to give it to them.

Turn 4, 1990 BC - Meet the Byzantines with eastern scout. Btw, we are gaining 2 gpt.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 5, 1950 BC - Eastern scout meats Japan. We have Mathematics over them, but they have no techs.

IBT: Nothing, Guimaraes: worker -> warrior.

Turn 6, 1910 BC - Send worker to put a road over that mine by Lisbon, we are trying to maximize our gold output, so why skip putting roads over worked tiles?

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 7, 1870 BC - I see that the Mayans already have Iron in their borders, we have an accessible Iron location near us, let's hope we can get to it before the Mayans do. Granary in Lisbon in 1 turn. Raise luxury to 20% to keep Oporto from disorder next turn.

IBT: Nothing, Lisbon: granary -> settler.

Turn 8, 1830 BC - Nothing.

IBT: Nothing.

Turn 9, 1790 BC - Change 1 citizen in Lagos to tax collector to prevent disorder next turn.

IBT: Lagos: worker -> worker.

Turn 10, 1750 BC - Nothing. We are getting closed in by the Mayans. Forget the Arabs as our first war, we need to plop a city next to the iron in the southwest, and fight the Mayans.

Dotmap
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/sanabas06-01.JPG

_____

My advice is to bully the Mayans a little out of some techs once you can.

Yes! I hate warfare, but for some reason, I'm quite good at it, given a few troops. (See The Fiery French in my signature).

As for those borders, they're facing the wrong way. (The Mayans will have their culture prioritized over ours. Of course, we should have raised/captured the towns by then.)

And please tell me I can at least look at the save without cringing. I will play tomorrow morning and post by 10 AM (Pacific).

In the meantime, discuss how we're ever going to get our money back.

Yes! I hate warfare, but for some reason, I'm quite good at it, given a few troops. (See The Fiery French in my signature).

As for those borders, they're facing the wrong way. (The Mayans will have their culture prioritized over ours. Of course, we should have raised/captured the towns by then.)

And please tell me I can at least look at the save without cringing. I will play tomorrow morning and post by 10 AM (Pacific).

In the meantime, discuss how we're ever going to get our money back.

It's not that bad.

And I forgot to mention, I beleive we now have a 4 turner in the capital once the worker finishes mining, keep it running.

It is bad at the moment though. Honestly, spending everything on a tech we can't trade hurt us real bad. (No offense Buc) We're still doing okay though. We're just a few techs behind. We may need to go to war pretty soon though.

Darn it! Since you guys traded everything away already, now I have a BORING set. Oh well. It should be interesting.

Oh, and BTW, the new towns will probably begin barracks right away, if that's okay with you all. Then we can start training warriors immediately until the iron is connected. Then swords away (+upgrades). Unless you all want boring old workers.

Darn it! Since you guys traded everything away already, now I have a BORING set. Oh well. It should be interesting.

Well, would you rather us be behind everyone 10 techs for your set? ;)

just a frog's penny's worth: I would have built Guimaraes on another spot, but too late, so I better not complain. :p anyways, my idea was to build a town in this here spot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/horses_sanabasa.JPG
Several reasons I like this location is because...

That town is next to the coast (seafaring trait...:gold:)
Its on horses, so no disconnection and horses, IIRC, provide extra commerce
That town is CxxC from Lisbon and Oporto
That town can use Lisbon's other wheat(the one that the worker is currently mining)
Settling there gets the fish for extra groth. :food:

Well, would you rather us be behind everyone 10 techs for your set? ;)

:lol:


OH WAIT!


We are behind quite a few.:(

@ Ansar

True, Guimaraes has horses too, and it's on a river, so it won't need the aqueduct. The growth from the sea wouldn't have been bad either. However, Guimaraes has several water tiles I believe, and will be able to get some good shield output.

It was a tossup to me, I went with where I picked.

Turn 6, 1910 BC - Send worker to put a road over that mine by Lisbon, we are trying to maximize our gold output, so why skip putting roads over worked tiles?

I did that because I wanted to move that worker. He only had 1 turn left before it was finished. Lisbon was producing a settler and already had all the worked tiles it could use for a long time.

2430 BC - Oporto is in disorder.

Oporto still in disorder.

Please tell me that you meant Oporto is unhappy and you needed to adjust slider and/or tiles to prevent disorder? Please tell me it wasn't actually rioting for 2 turns plus?

And I forgot to mention, I beleive we now have a 4 turner in the capital once the worker finishes mining, keep it running.

Yes please. We do have a despotic 4 turner at size 4, with 1 irrigated and 1 mined wheat.

Oporto should make at least 1 if not 2 workers. The answer to sanabas's question about why the workers are not moved there is that it would be a horrendous waste of worker turns.

not that horrendous. They can drop roads as they march to oporto. And it's a bigger waste of worker turns to mine and road squares we're not using when there are squares that need commerce 4 -5 tiles away.

Agree that the horses between lisbon and oporto will be a good location, but at the moment I think it's more important to expand outwards. The Ai won't steal that spot off us, we can fill it in a little later.

I'll have a proper look at the game later, but I assume we just want to keep expanding ASAP. We have now met everyone, so watch out for trade opportunities.

Tribute is up.

Please tell me that you meant Oporto is unhappy and you needed to adjust slider and/or tiles to prevent disorder? Please tell me it wasn't actually rioting for 2 turns plus?

It was rioting for 2 turns. I tried to adjust the sliders, not even 100% would bring it out of the rioting. Tiles didn't seem to help either oddly enough. I don't think it even gained in size. I didn't have the Warrior in Lisbon there because of a Mayan warrior right outside of Lisbon at the time. As soon as I saw it rioting, I moved the warrior to Oporto. Wasn't much I could do until that warrior got to Oporto. Reloading a save from the turn before and switching production to warrior wouldn't have been good either. Especially since it was very far along with its production of a settler.

CA2 says we are up maths on japan, and down writing and HBr to them. Any chance we can trade for one or the other?

One other thing, can everyone please upload saves as Sana06_whateverdate? It can be hard to figure out what is what and find the right save if I'm looking through my folder and see names like save.sav

It was rioting for 2 turns. I tried to adjust the sliders, not even 100% would bring it out of the rioting. Tiles didn't seem to help either oddly enough. I don't think it even gained in size. I didn't have the Warrior in Lisbon there because of a Mayan warrior right outside of Lisbon at the time. As soon as I saw it rioting, I moved the warrior to Oporto. Wasn't much I could do until that warrior got to Oporto. Reloading a save from the turn before and switching production to warrior wouldn't have been good either. Especially since it was very far along with its production of a settler.

eep. Hire a specialist if you have to. Switch a tile from a cow to a high commerce coast. At size 3, even with no mp, there is no way oporto should riot.

Do you use mapstat, CA2 or similar, btw?

And as for the bit I bolded, yes, I agree. Reloading is bad. Always. It is cheating.

eep. Hire a specialist if you have to. Switch a tile from a cow to a high commerce coast. At size 3, even with no mp, there is no way oporto should riot.

Do you use mapstat, CA2 or similar, btw?

And as for the bit I bolded, yes, I agree. Reloading is bad. Always. It is cheating.

I'll fix the names of the saves also. No, I dont use CivAssist anymore. Although I think I should, I'll DL it again here in a bit. I think I tried all tiles. Trying to remember why I didn't hire a specialist... I think it was at Size 2, and a specialist may have put it into starvation, can't remember. I think I had a reason though. Either that, or my mind completely blanked out. I'm almost positive it wasn't the latter.

However, I was checking the towns almost every turn and diplomacy every turn. I should probably DL CivAssist again so I don't have to do that.

I'll fix the names of the saves also. No, I dont use CivAssist anymore. Although I think I should, I'll DL it again here in a bit. I think I tried all tiles. Trying to remember why I didn't hire a specialist... I think it was at Size 2, and a specialist may have put it into starvation, can't remember. I think I had a reason though. Either that, or my mind completely blanked out. I'm almost positive it wasn't the latter.

I think that it would have just grown to size 3. 1 cow, 1 coast, 1 clown would give 6 food for no starvation, and I guarantee it wouldn't be rioting with that setup. Maybe have another look at the start of your turns and see what you can change to prevent it? I'll try the same later.

However, I was checking the towns almost every turn and diplomacy every turn. I should probably DL CivAssist again so I don't have to do that.

If you're prepared to check all that stuff, then no worries. It gets very tedious later in the game though. I don't use CA2 during the game, it takes too long for alerts to popup on my machine. I use mapstat instead, the only alerts I use are a city about to riot or resisting, and whether new trades are available.

I think that it would have just grown to size 3. 1 cow, 1 coast, 1 clown would give 6 food for no starvation, and I guarantee it wouldn't be rioting with that setup. Maybe have another look at the start of your turns and see what you can change to prevent it? I'll try the same later.



If you're prepared to check all that stuff, then no worries. It gets very tedious later in the game though. I don't use CA2 during the game, it takes too long for alerts to popup on my machine. I use mapstat instead, the only alerts I use are a city about to riot or resisting, and whether new trades are available.

Maybe. For some reason, I couldn't get it to stop rioting. Maybe I over-looked something, after-all, I am human.

Sounds like maybe I should get Mapstat then, or something. The only save I would have now is the one Buc had. All my Autosaves look like they were over-written by the RaR ones.

The only save I would have now is the one Buc had. All my Autosaves look like they were over-written by the RaR ones.

not a problem, just play the 3 or 4 turns to get to the riot again. That's what I'm going to do to.

Don't bother. I have no idea why I didn't just switch it to coast. I know the Lux slider didn't work though. I tried that, and hte tiles, somehow I missed the only logical one, hm...

It is bad at the moment though. Honestly, spending everything on a tech we can't trade hurt us real bad. (No offense Buc)

No offence taken. I am a man, and as such will take valid critisism on the chin. However, I'm really unhappy with myself that my error should have such far-reaching consequences. The game is barely started; perhaps you should consider re-starting without me.

No offence taken. I am a man, and as such will take valid critisism on the chin. However, I'm really unhappy with myself that my error should have such far-reaching consequences. The game is barely started; perhaps you should consider re-starting without me.

I would prefer you to stay, but that's up to you. No reason to restart the game IMO, if we happen to finish up in a big hole a bit later, digging ourselves out of it can be very educational, and make for a fun game. If everything goes belly up, we can restart then, and this time do it on emperor, or DG with islands, and really concentrate on trading skills. We're not doing that badly anyway, and it's amazing what a properly orchestrated sword/horse rush can do.

dont you guys dare stop!
i once attempted a no sci, SS win game (SW8 - stupid spacers, IIRC), but it died away.
i want to see this done properly!
now go back and pick up that shovel, and DIG! dig like there is no tomorrow!

I would prefer you to stay, but that's up to you. No reason to restart the game IMO, if we happen to finish up in a big hole a bit later, digging ourselves out of it can be very educational, and make for a fun game. If everything goes belly up, we can restart then, and this time do it on emperor, or DG with islands, and really concentrate on trading skills. We're not doing that badly anyway, and it's amazing what a properly orchestrated sword/horse rush can do.

I've been playing a bunch of non-research Demigod games up until the Middle Ages, and I find it EXTREMELY easy to keep up in tech, even easier than if I was using research (weird, huh?). We should have no problem with this game.

No offence taken. I am a man, and as such will take valid critisism on the chin. However, I'm really unhappy with myself that my error should have such far-reaching consequences. The game is barely started; perhaps you should consider re-starting without me.

No. You're fine. We're still in the ancient ages. Heck, we're not even half-way through it I don't think. I screwed up too letting Oporto riot for two turns for some dumb reason. It won't have long-term consequences. We're only down a bit now. I bet that in the next few sets, we're right back up with everyone else. Please, stay.

I am starting now.

And now that I'm done; please discuss the builds because I'm not so good at a before warfare build decision.

And for the Middle Ages, does anyone have a set build order they'd like for me to use?

Like temple, marketplace, colluseum, harbor, bank, cathedral, barracks?

I'm not entirely sure what would be best either.

I'd wait for Homeyg or Sanabas to respond, or maybe Buc if he/she knows what we should do.

0. We may actually have a 4 turner on our hands. Now if I could just imagine it working out a bit better.
a. Turn 1: Size 4.5->5 Shields: 6->8 (takes mined grass)
b. Turn 2: Size 5->5.5 Shields: 8
c. Turn 3: Size 5.5->6 Shields: 8->10 (takes forest)
d. Turn 4: Size 6->6.5->4.5 Shields: 9 or 10 (depending if we finish improving Lisbon) for a settler
e. Sure this is wasteful, but if possible, we can do it one turn sooner; 6,8,8,10. Either way, the farm works.
f. I wish Lagos wasn’t CXC from Oporto. Luckily, it steals ALL the cattle from the Arabs, so that’s nice. And we somehow got two workers there?
g. And lastly, we are losing gpt with only 20% lux. Joy.
h. Oh, we’ve met everyone. Oh no.
i. Potential Trades: We have Math over Maya and Japan.
j. Japan has Writing and Horseback’s over us. But we can’t get writing. And Japan has not enough gold to go with HBR.
k. Iro’s have Poly over everyone else. Writing and HBR are common techs to all except Maya who are the most backwards.
l. Trade with Japan: Math for HBR and 1 gold. I do this since Math will be received by all some way (maybe Japan will get Poly?)
m. Japan tells us to leave their territory. It’s not my fault. In fact, this is a good idea.
1. Oporto settler->settler in 15. Guimaraes warrior->worker in 5.
a. Warrior sent to Lisbon as MP. Our lux is too high.
b. Lux to 30% for Lisbon. We’re losing 3gpt.
c. Workers move to build roads on tiles that Lisbon will use.
d. Settler sent to 2, or forest site.
e. Is the general consensus just to mine the cattle near Oporto and Lagos?
f. Start the mining.
g. I don’t really know what to do with our scouts now that we’ve found everyone. And since searching other people’s lands seems like a waste (they’ll settle it before us), I think we should back explore back to Arabia.
h. I hope nobody extorts us this turn….
i. Nobody does.
2. Scouts back explore ‘our’ lands. Warrior enters Lisbon.
a. No new deals.
b. Lux down to 20%; we gain 1 gpt.
c. Settler will complete next turn in Lisbon. Looks like we’re doing the faster 4 settler factory. Good. At least we won’t have to pay lux for 6 citizens.
3. Lisbon settler->settler in 5.
a. Iro’s start ToA
b. Byzantines start Oracle as do the Japanese
c. The site looks so good. The only problem; less cities in the core. Oh well, settler sent to 1, or the hill site near the iron.
d. Lux to 10%; we gain 2 gpt.
e. Yes! The Maya got writing instead of Math’s or HBR. Now we get to trade.
f. In fact, they accept Mathematics for Writing and 17 gold. Looks like they don’t know some people…. (They would not accept an HBR trade).
g. Now we are only down Poly. Start Map Making in infinite turns. Haha.
4. Nothing new.
a. Najran’s cultural influence expands, pressuring Oporto and Lagos.
b. Send both Lisbon’s workers so that they will road to and be able to connect iron in the new town.
c. One settler in place.
d. Ottomans tell us to leave.
5. Lux up to 20% since Lisbon is size 5.
a. Settler Emerita ->rax in 20. (Can be changed at loss of 4 shields to whatever else you want that’s 10 shields big)
b. Odd, Lagartero is only defended by a warrior.
c. 3 gpt per turn with 31 gold
d. No new trades
6. Guimareas Worker->rax in 20.
a. Japan starts ToA
b. Worker in Guimareas gets started on chops.
c. Darn it. I knew Japan would pull something like that! They got Philosophy! Oh, and they took Poly for some reason.
d. Iro’s and Byzantines get MapMaking (Byz probably researched and traded it for Poly).
e. And there it is, Lagartero builds a spear (I had to say something, didn’t I?)
f. Bonampak either made a worker or a settler (hope it’s the former). Reduction in its population size.
g. Witness an Ottoman settler dancing into Istanbul.
7. Lisbon settler->settler in 5. Too bad we have little space left. I see two sites.
a. And ??? Anjar is built inside the Mayan ‘lands’ taking away their iron.
b. I see a good war with the Arabs for sure.
c. Sagres founded. Barracks in 20.
d. For some reason, I still don’t see any Mayan settler pairs. Maybe it’s because they’re building the Pyramids and ToA and the Oracle and they really are. Except for ToA cause they don’t have Poly.
e. Lagos about to riot. Lower lux to 10% and hire a tax collector since no science is allowed.
f. Settler in Lisbon sent to the horsy site that somebody pointed out (that I would normally dislike due to CXXC)
g. Oh, and BTW, maybe we should switch Oporto to a rax. With lack of settling sites, we shouldn’t waste population like that. Also, we need a nice place to build some spearmen defenders….
h. Great, just great. Zululand researched and sold Philosophy (denying Japan’s trading rights) and netting Polytheism with it.
8. Nothing really.
a. Byzantines switch to the Mausoleum of Mausollos as they complete the Colossus.
b. They also start ToA
c. Oporto is about to riot; raise lux to 20%. Lisbon will need it soon anyway.
d. Road to iron in 9 turns.
e. In 5 turns we will get 11 gpt back. Right now we only have 6 gpt surplus.
9. Lagos worker->warrior in 10. The warrior will act as MP and temp defense in our war.
a. Worker moves off to a connector site in our road network.
b. Coimbra founded. This will be troublesome to manage as it conflicts with Lisbon and Oporto. Warrior in 5. Barracks in 20. Remember all builds can be changed.
c. Sagres connected to the empire.
d. As we’re not quite ready yet, I see no need to rush the completion of the iron connection. Other worker starts mining
e. Scout tells us that Bonampak is defended by spearmen just like Lagartero.
f. No deals.
10. Cultural influence expands! (I really don’t need to tell you the town, do I?)
a. Zulu start ToA.
b. Turns out Bonampak did make a worker. And now it has sent out a warrior from its defenses.
c. Now let’s see, Oporto is 1 turn from a settler, and 4 turns from a rax. It’s next players choice (after discussion)
d. All rax builds can come into question.
e. We just want swords built in the core and vet spears in the outlying towns, right?
f. If you desire, switch the barracks from Sagres and Emerita into walls. Maybe Lagos too.
g. We end the set with no gpt spent and 2 techs gained from Mathematics. And 3 more towns.
h. We have tech parity with Ottomans and Arabia.
i. We are ahead of the Mayans by HBR
j. We are behind the Zulu and Japanese by Philo and Poly
k. We are behind the Byz and the Iro’s by Philo, Poly, and Maps.
l. 58 gold +7gpt. And 7 towns. We get 11gpt back in 3 turns for another tech jump.

West Side:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Turnset1Pic1.gif

East Side:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Turnset1Pic2.gif

<<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hovind_of_the_Luddites,_1500_BC.SAV)

And who the heck is Hovind?

And for the Middle Ages, does anyone have a set build order they'd like for me to use?

Like temple, marketplace, colluseum, harbor, bank, cathedral, barracks?

Well, I would say anything that increases our commerce (don't worry about cultural buildings for now, worry about barracks instead since we plan on going to war).

I believe no colosseums are needed. With 0% science, you must have some cash for lux slider. :nono: ;)

Just a suggestion of a build order. At any rate though, we must have some sort of flexible strategy for every town (so that in the Middle Ages when we've no idea why things are being built or what to build next, we could know why.)

But what's more important is the turnset and how we're going to kick off the war.

So you know... Hovind is a creationist who was charged with tax evasion.

Yeah, I think Sanabas is up? It will be important to get the war started correctly.

Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus
Despair888
HomeyG
Tribute

So it is Sanabas who will play the next 10 turns. You know, we actually got through the first round quite quickly. Maybe we can keep up the momentum?

Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus
Despair888
HomeyG
Tribute

So it is Sanabas who will play the next 10 turns. You know, we actually got through the first round quite quickly. Maybe we can keep up the momentum?

Yeah. I believe Sanabas plays the next 10. Yes, we did get through the first set pretty quickly.

I would prefer you to stay, but that's up to you. No reason to restart the game IMO, if we happen to finish up in a big hole a bit later, digging ourselves out of it can be very educational, and make for a fun game. If everything goes belly up, we can restart then, and this time do it on emperor, or DG with islands, and really concentrate on trading skills. We're not doing that badly anyway, and it's amazing what a properly orchestrated sword/horse rush can do.

No. You're fine. We're still in the ancient ages. Heck, we're not even half-way through it I don't think. I screwed up too letting Oporto riot for two turns for some dumb reason. It won't have long-term consequences. We're only down a bit now. I bet that in the next few sets, we're right back up with everyone else. Please, stay.

Thanks guys. It seemed like the honourable thing to do, to give you a way out without any hard feelings. However, your response shows a generosity of spirit that sadly is so often lacking in this world. I am no quitter, of course I shall continue; it would be churlish of me not to. Let's go kick ass!

And for the Middle Ages, does anyone have a set build order they'd like for me to use?

Like temple, marketplace, colluseum, harbor, bank, cathedral, barracks?

There should be no reason to build temples, colloseums, or cathedrals, except if we need a culture expansion.

Got it, I will play tonight.

7. Lisbon settler->settler in 5. Too bad we have little space left. I see two sites.

I see minimum of 6 or so.

f. Settler in Lisbon sent to the horsy site that somebody pointed out (that I would normally dislike due to CXXC)

Would have preferred to see that settler sent outwards, as nobody was stealing that spot from us. What is wrong with CxxC? I'd be amazed if we build hospitals this game, so 12 good tiles per city is plenty. Why leave huge gaps of wasted tiles?

We also look very short of workers, I count 6 workers for 7 cities off the screenie.

Is that 6 if 'invading' what could be Mayan territory, or CXC style? Oh, and settler was not sent south because we're going to need to defend it if there's going to be a war, which there will be. And defense so far away would be difficult/wasteful.

Oh, and as for not CXXC, I actually ALWAYS get to the IA unless its always war.

And the worker count shouldn't be bothered about, after all, I did just build those 3 towns. (If you want, switch the rax directly to workers to appease your appetite for indentured servants to our warmongering empire.)

Is that 6 if 'invading' what could be Mayan territory, or CXC style? Oh, and settler was not sent south because we're going to need to defend it if there's going to be a war, which there will be. And defense so far away would be difficult/wasteful.

NW, W, S of Lisbon, and a couple around Lagartero, for starters.

Oh, and as for not CXXC, I actually ALWAYS get to the IA unless its always war.

So do I. But even in the modern age, 12 tiles per city is fine, with the occasional hospital to make high shield cities. The benefit from 20 tiles per city post sanitation doesn't outweigh the waste pre-sanitation most of the time. Better to be flexible about city placement anyway, as different situations demand different placements. i.e. I very rarely put cities on a square another city can work, but Lagos is a good choice where it is, because it gives us all 5 cows to use, and prevents Baghdad using them.

And the worker count shouldn't be bothered about, after all, I did just build those 3 towns. (If you want, switch the rax directly to workers to appease your appetite for indentured servants to our warmongering empire.)

It's always worth bothering about the worker count. And it is almost imposible to have too many workers.

Okay, so. Sanabas, have you finished?

And looking at the pic from my turnset, I inwardly say, "Please no CXC, no CXC, no CXC...."

Okay, so. Sanabas, have you finished?

Nope, haven't started. Been sidetracked.

And looking at the pic from my turnset, I inwardly say, "Please no CXC, no CXC, no CXC...."

Why not? What's wrong with tight placement if the situation warrants it? Again, going off the screenies, I see at least 2 CxC cities going in, both in the west. Both need to be that close because there isn't enough land out there to spread them further.

It doesn't matter in my mind if the situation requires CXC. I have an innate dislike for the pattern. That's all, really. Feel free to do it.

OK, fairly uneventful turnset from me. Lisbon stayed as a settler factory, everyone else stayed on rax or workers. We founded 3 cities, Leiria, Evora and Braga. The SW city is by incense, which should be connected asap. One settler is in place on the west coast, we have room for 1 more city in the NW, maybe 1 to the south, although thre are AI settlers closing in. Then it will be preparing for war I think. AI didn't do much, the Arabs built the Oracle, the Iroquois established an embassy with us.

The biggest event was in 1350BC, when the tech picture looked like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/sana061350bcpretrade.jpg

14gpt & 133 gold to the Iro got us Map Making
Map Making to Japan got us Code of Laws
Code of Laws and Map Making to the Ottomans got us Construction
Construction and Code of Laws to the Zulu got us Philo, Polytheism, 8 gold.

And now the tech picture looks like this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/sana061350bcposttrade.jpg

We are now tech leaders. :D

2 turns later we gave Map Making to the Arabs for wines, and at the ned of the set the Iroquois discovered monarchy. We are still equal second in tech. The world looks like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/sana061250bc.jpg

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Sana06_1250_BC.SAV

Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus - up
Despair888 - on deck
HomeyG
Tribute

Great settling choices. Of course, I would have (badly) chosen Evora to be 1 SW.

A settling cycle has just ended, so I assume the settler is on its way to the plains between the two mountains site next to the iron?

And that was a most wonderful tech jump.

14gpt & 133 gold to the Iro got us Map Making
Map Making to Japan got us Code of Laws
Code of Laws and Map Making to the Ottomans got us Construction
Construction and Code of Laws to the Zulu got us Philo, Polytheism, 8 gold.

Adds to: 14gpt+125gold for MM,CoL,Construction,Philo, and Poly.

Brilliant.

I suppose Bucephalus may be the one building up troops?

Nice job man (although I coulda done that without utility programs :p ).

I say take/raze Lagartero and Bonanampak!

Great settling choices. Of course, I would have (badly) chosen Evora to be 1 SW.

Couldn't do that, we would lose the incense, and only get it back by out culturing tikal.

A settling cycle has just ended, so I assume the settler is on its way to the plains between the two mountains site next to the iron?

The just built settler is to the west of Lisbon, and can be founded in place. The AI will beat us to the southern site I am fairly sure.

Nice job man (although I coulda done that without utility programs :p ).

:p As could I. But checking every civ every turn for potential trades gets very boring, very quickly. The screenies from mapstat are simply to save typing. All from the lazy school of civ playing. :smoke: :sleep:

Just a reminder. I'll be gone Friday - most of Monday.

Bucephalus? Your turn.

How about you, Despair?

PM sent to Bucephalus, hopefully he grabs it soon.


Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus - up, heading for skip
Despair888 - on deck, away until monday
HomeyG - might be up soon
Tribute

PM sent to Bucephalus, hopefully he grabs it soon.


Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus - up, heading for skip
Despair888 - on deck, away until monday
HomeyG - might be up soon
Tribute

Sorry, I'm asleep when you are posting. You had better skip me, I can't turn it around quick enough to keep up your momentum.

Sorry, I'm asleep when you are posting. You had better skip me, I can't turn it around quick enough to keep up your momentum.

No mad rush, if you can play before monday it's all good. I usually run 24 hours to say got it, 48 or so to play. No worries if you're busy and need an extension.

HomeyG, you want to take it?

No mad rush, if you can play before monday it's all good. I usually run 24 hours to say got it, 48 or so to play. No worries if you're busy and need an extension.

HomeyG, you want to take it?

I could certainly finish it today, but I've been reluctant to rush it just to keep things going - it's why I messed-up before; I can't be both quick and remain error-free. I will post it this evening (GMT).

No worries. Like I said, no rush.

No worries. Like I said, no rush.

Thanks, Mate. BTW, I've had time to study your turnset; I thought that your trading sequence was awesome. It demonstrates - better than words ever could - what it is that we are trying to achieve here, and why my trade was so inept. A lesson learned.

IBT: Zulu demand 21g. Zulu get 21g

1225 BC – Found ‘Faro’, begins worker

1200 BC – Worker turns.

1175 BC – Lisbon builds Settler. Decide to continue building Settlers for adding to other cities population; Guimaraes in particular is shield rich and slow growing.

1150 BC – Mayan worker sits rather irritatingly on our incense; I cannot demand they move, wasted worker turn.

1125 BC – Mayan worker is now roading our incense; and at Industrious speeds too. Sagres finishes barracks, begins Sword. Hire taxman in Lagos, to prevent riot.

1100 BC – Coimbra finishes barracks, begins Sword.

IBT – Maya demand HBR, I reluctantly hand it over. Iroquois demand 25g, Iroquois get 25g

1075 BC – Guimaraes completes Sword, begins Sword (5); Lisbon builds Settler, heads West. Begins Settler. Sagres gets Taxman to prevent riot.

1050 – Found ‘Rio’ next to the Iron SSE of Lisbon. Mayan worker connects our Incense, that was 3 turns to road a hill! Lux to 0%. Taxmen back on the farm.

1025 BC – Found Sao Paulo on West coast.

1000 BC – Worker turns.

In addition to this, our workers have upgraded much of our core land, and are just about keeping pace with growth, ie there are no unimproved tiles being worked.


The Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hovind_of_the_Luddites,_1000_BC.SAV

Why not build workers in Lisbon and send those out? (1 pop per 2 turns instead of 2 pop per 4 turns) It'll also be more selective on how much pop a town gets as we will be able to add as many as we want instead of even numbers only.

Also, the workers will arrive 2 turns earlier than the second worker, which gives 2 extra turns of population work.

Otherwise, without a picture, I assume you did very well.

Despair's turn now.

Otherwise, without a picture, I assume you did very well.

Sorry, my screenshot utility keeps crashing; maybe you could take one for us?

I've fixed my screenshot problems, but unfortunately we cannot upload files ATM; I'll keep trying.

Agree with tribute, building settlers to boost oter populations is inefficient. If we want to boost other populations, workers are better to use, as they are cheaper, and they can do something while waiting to be joined.

But I don't think we need to be adding population anyway. We have no more room to expand, we need to be preparing for war, most likely with the maya. Every turn Lisbon spends on population for somewhere else is a turn it's not spending on horses/swords. I don't think the production boost in other cities is going to equal the production loss in Lisbon. Lisbon will be at 3-turn swords/horses at size 7 or 8, and the extra commerce will also help our cash for buying techs. If we need more workers to improve stuff, we should build them, but otherwise I think our core should be on military builds.

Rest looks good though, and I'm glad you gave in to AI demands, as they're a small price to pay to avoid a war we're not ready for.

OK, well I actually used all my Settlers to build cities, so no harm done.
Still unable to upload screenshots.

Her we go:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Portugal.JPG

Yay! We did get the Iron between the 2 mountains site! (Rio Janeiro).

But we have few swordsmen. I see someone's been building rax's.

I do have it now. I should be able to play it late tonight, or tommorow morning/afternoon. [GMT -6 (CST) is my timezone]

EDIT: Few questions here, of course I'll read more on what you guys did later. Who are we going to war with? Do I need to start the war in my turnset? Are we already at war? Any ideas on what we should build?

We are going to war with the Maya. (war with none yet) Do not declare war on them on your set though. You may desire to build up troops near their towns though.

Also, we'll need certain defenses (in the form of vet spearmen for the border towns and sword stacks. (If you feel its necessary, build catapults in the towns without barracks.)

Attempt to build up towns so that they have 6 spt or 8 spt. These can build swordsmen.

Those with 5 spt can make spears or swords.

Then those with 3 or 4 should make spears. Just don't make too many of these. If you must, go to archers.

And I'm quite sure this is good advice. I'm not sure how anyone else feels though.

I see a Zulu Impi east of Bonampak(Mayan), could it be that the Zulu and the Mayans are at war? :)

Could be Ansar, however, earlier in the game I noticed the Mayans had tons of open space south of their starting position, which is probably why the Zulu have their Impi there (to defend the probable settler underneath).

BT, 1000 BC: Switch production in Lisbon to Swordsman. Going to send one Warrior from Lisbon to Lagos so it doesn't riot. Adjusting Entertainment slider so Lagos and Lisbon do not riot next turn.

IBT: Nothing
975 BC: Lisbon completes Swordsman. Faro completes worker.

IBT: Nothing
950 BC: Byzantines complete Mausolem of Maulossos. Everyone starts building 5000 wonders. Guimaraes completes Swordsman. Reposition a couple swordsman to get closer to the Mayan border. Not yet able to do anytech trading that would benefit us.

IBT: At Least 15-20 wonder initation pop-ups. Apparently they need to read the guides to Great Wonder Addiction.
925 BC: Lagos Completes Barracks, starts Swordsman.

IBT: Nothing
900 BC: Sagres, Coimbra, and Lisbon all complete Swordsmen. Begin production on more swordsmen. Trade Construction to Mayans for Literature. Trade Literature to Iroquois for 25 gold (only civ who doesn't have it, not able to get Monarchy or Republic from them)

IBT: Wonder initiation pop-ups. Arabia declares War on the Iroquois!
875 BC: Braga completes Harbor. Leiria completes worker. Oporto completes Swordsman. All start production on either Spearman or Swordsman.

IBT: Great... Leiria flips to the Arabs. Bunch of damn traitors.
850 BC: Move Several units around.


Stopping here.. and for good reason. We can either get Monarchy and trade for Currency, or trade for Currency and get Monarchy, either way it will be expensive.

However, the main Reason I stopped was because I need to know if you guys want me to reposition our Swordsmen/Spearmen for a war with the Arabs. They are currently also occupied with the Iroquois. We can also get a decent deal on Currency and possibly get Monarchy from Zululand if we sign an MA with the Iroquois. Arabia looks like a better target to me than the Iroquois. I felt like this was a pretty big decision, and to stop it for now until I get some input on the current situation from all of you.

After it's discussed, either I can finish it, or the next person can. I think we may have a real good oppurtunity here.

No! Leiria can't flip. No! No! No!!!

Yeah, so I hate losing cities....

No! NO! NOOOO!!!

Well, of course, the Iro's aren't as great a target. But the Mayans still are. However, I want Leiria back, so I would actually support a skirmish with the Arabs. Then we'll be able to obliterate the Mayans, maybe even better.

So you got the worthless literature. I think that 25g (and the worthless literature) was too little for construction to a civ and lit to another.

They would've just got Construction from any other civ. I'm sure it would be the same with Literature, considering they were the only civ that did not have it. So why not take the practically free Literature and 25 gold? I know we aren't going for any science, but still... The gold or a potential tech would've just gone to another civ, and that would've been worse in my opinion.

Also, the Iroquois aren't being considered a target... don't know where you got that from. The Arabs are though. With the Arabs being occupied with the Iroquois. It may not be too hard to put a dent in them, which is why I stopped my turnset. I believe we could get Monarchy from them, can't remember if they were one of the Civs that had Republic or not.

I was wondering if you wanted to sign an MA with the Iroqouis and get cheap Currency or maybe a discount on Monarchy/Republic. The Arabs look like a good target to me. Maybe we could've even get a potential tech if we are able to demand peace. We need to declare soon in order to fully take advantage of the Iroqouis being at war with them. They'll be at the East fighting along the Iroqouis border. We'll be sweeping in from the West. Of course, we'll need to occupy these cities well to prevent a flip.

I also believe that giving Lit to another Civ isn't that bad, considering they are up there, being about the tech leaders. If that gives us more techs to potentially buy and sell to other civs for other techs, I'm all for it, since we are not allowed to research ourselves.

Arabia looks like a better target to me than the Iroquois.

That's how I got the idea.

And actually, you kind of want the AI to be in staggered levels of knowledge. It's kind of weird, but if you do that then, multiple techs for the cost of buying 1 is a lot easier. (Buy from advanced civ, trade around to less advanced civs until all get the tech you just bought.)

That's how I got the idea.

And actually, you kind of want the AI to be in staggered levels of knowledge. It's kind of weird, but if you do that then, multiple techs for the cost of buying 1 is a lot easier. (Buy from advanced civ, trade around to less advanced civs until all get the tech you just bought.)

Yeah. I figured you meant Arabia. You just said Iroquois in your original post.

Well, I figured It'd be good to advance the most advanced Civ. Which is kind of what you said... It's not like I evened them out too much.

EDIT: Sure would be nice to know what you guys want to do...

Yeah, it would.... Hello?

Sanabas and Bucephalus were on earlier. Neither ended up responding though. Oh well... I can't make this big of a decision without hearing at least from a couple people...

Sanabas and Bucephalus were on earlier. Neither ended up responding though. Oh well... I can't make this big of a decision without hearing at least from a couple people...

Sorry, I sometimes I have a little time time to surf but not to post.
Neither am I sure what it is you are asking....

Stopping here.. and for good reason. We can either get Monarchy and trade for Currency, or trade for Currency and get Monarchy, either way it will be expensive.

However, the main Reason I stopped was because I need to know if you guys want me to reposition our Swordsmen/Spearmen for a war with the Arabs. They are currently also occupied with the Iroquois. We can also get a decent deal on Currency and possibly get Monarchy from Zululand if we sign an MA with the Iroquois. Arabia looks like a better target to me than the Iroquois. I felt like this was a pretty big decision, and to stop it for now until I get some input on the current situation from all of you.

After it's discussed, either I can finish it, or the next person can. I think we may have a real good oppurtunity here.

Bottom of the 6th Page. I talked about it with Tribute on this page too though.

The first thing I need clarified is the current strength of our military. How many swords do we have? Other questions: Do the Arabs have the tech or economic strength to ally the Maya? If so, are we in a position to fight on two fronts?

Edit: Are there any other reasons (other than opportunism) for war with Arabia? Do they have luxuries within reach?
Since we've just lost one of our own cities to culture flip, we would probably need to raze & replace; do we have the facility to produce enough settlers?

Answers: Yes to all. as for number of soldiers, I don't know. (And Arabs shouldn't have the strength after we declare war on them to ally the Mayans against us.)

We will grow bigger, that's quite a bit there. And we get 2 free techs (and a happy Iroquois nation.)

Answers: Yes to all. as for number of soldiers, I don't know. (And Arabs shouldn't have the strength after we declare war on them to ally the Mayans against us.)

We will grow bigger, that's quite a bit there. And we get 2 free techs (and a happy Iroquois nation.)

We are also up techs on the Mayans, and so can ally them in v Arabia. Despair, if you think we can handle a war with Arabia, go for it. If we do trade for Monarchy we probably want to revolt to it reasonably soon too.

One thing I noticed in the turnlog, you switched Lisbon to a sword, but AFAIK, Lisbon doesn't have a barracks. After the first couple of scouting/mp units, we should never build a regular unit, they should all be vets.

Doh. I think you're right, maybe. I assumed our biggest producing city had a barracks.

I think we can handle one. I just remembered, we're religous! So how does this sound...

Sign MA with Iroquois against Arabia and get discounted Monarchy. Sign MA with the Mayans against Arabia. Immediately switch to Monarchy. Then attack Arabia with what we have. However, most of our Swordsmen are positioned to attack the Mayans at the moment. I had a few turns left, so we'd be in position by then. It'd probably be up to the next person. I'll play the next few turns and position them where they need to be.

Save will come within a couple hours.

If there are any objections to moving Swordsmen to Arabia, do say so soon.

Here's the save, I didn't play anymore turns. Supposed to have storms here through tommorow. Not a big deal anyways, I played like 7 turns.

Notes, real fast, before the power flickers again: Change Lisbon from Swordsman to Barracks, reposition Swordsmen by Mayan border, and look at plan I gave.

Good Luck, I'll be back on tommorow.

Doh. I think you're right, maybe. I assumed our biggest producing city had a barracks.

It didn't have one on my set, and the screenie didn't show one. It has been on 4 turn-settler duty ever since the granary completed.

I think we can handle one. I just remembered, we're religous! So how does this sound...

No we're not, we are expansionist and seafaring. But we'll still need to revolt, and since this game will likely feature plenty of war, monarchy will work well.

Sign MA with Iroquois against Arabia and get discounted Monarchy. Sign MA with the Mayans against Arabia. Immediately switch to Monarchy. Then attack Arabia with what we have. However, most of our Swordsmen are positioned to attack the Mayans at the moment. I had a few turns left, so we'd be in position by then. It'd probably be up to the next person. I'll play the next few turns and position them where they need to be.

Sounds good if you can pull it off. Don't forget currency too.

Storm let up here for a few minutes.

Just so we're clear, I'm done. Whoever is next may go. Also, you're right, Lisbon needs to be switched to Rax immediately before it finishes the Swordsman it is on.

And my bad on the Religous. First time playing Portugal, for some reason I thought we were expansionist and religous.:(

For some reason, I couldn't help but laugh when I read that....

Sorry.

Laugh at what? Some storms... through tommorow my... Anyways, I'm still done, 7 turns is good enough.

Good News! I just won a builder game via Diplomatic Win on Demi-God!

Good News! I just won a builder game via Diplomatic Win on Demi-God!

Sweet.

Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus -
Despair888 -
HomeyG - up
Tribute - on deck

HomeyG? We await your set.

Sorry guys, I'm out of town right now with no CivIII, skip. :)

Woops, then it's my turn. I can play as soon as I get home. (Don't know how important office companies feel about me playing games, much less my parents....)

Then again, I AM on CivFanatics now.

Oh, right. Since despair played 7 turns, I think I will have to play 13. That'll be quite a bit as we're going to go to war.

Use the good ol' Napoleonic Europe Prussia strategy for those Arabians. Take/raze Baghdad, Najran, and Leiria FTW. Then, attack the Mayans for Lagartero and Bonanampak.

Sorry, guys. I took quite a while.

Short version:
We managed to capture Lagartero and Bonampak at the cost of two swordsmen. Many of our towns are producing military quite readily. I did not declare war on Arabia. We are in the middle ages and are down the Republic, Feudalism, Monotheism, and Chivalry at the most.

(-4) Change Lisbon to a rax. Our military situation is still sad. But that's because we've only gotten 17 turns into it. It turns out we have 7 swordsmen. and 3 warriors too. We have more workers than military units+scouts. Compared to the Arabians we are still weak. And especially so with only 2 warriors at the border so far. Upgrade all warriors except the one in Lisbon for 120g. Lagos switches to a spear. Border towns: Lagos and Oporto will make spearmen. Troops are sent moving towards Arabia as agreed.

(-4's inter) The units move by SO fast. Someone needs to switch a preference for me to perform better.

(-3) Guimareas Sword->Sword in 5. Iro's start Sun Tzu's. Maya start GLib. (Good for us... not for the techs but for the lack of troops. Too bad that may mean razing a nice city.) Bonampak's cultural influence has expanded. Grr.... Our worker must build a better connecting road to Rio Janiero. Take a nice look at Ngome with a scout. Save new preferences.
Good thing I waited. Guess what? A potential The Republic for Currency and Monarchy deal. But I kind of have to wait. We have vulnerable workers and not quite enough money yet.

(-3's inter) A spear moves further out from that Arabic colony in Mayan lands.

(-2) Lisbon rax->horse in 3. These horses will be quite useful as we'll see after chivalry. Also good against naval landings.
Emerita rax->spear in 7. More defenses for border towns. Rio Janiero Worker->rax in 40. (For our future war.)

Salamanca finishes the ToA. Zulu start the GLib and the Hanging Gardens and the Great Wall because they finish the GLib. Byzantines start the Great Lighthouse and the Great Wall and then restart the Great Lighthouse and the Great Wall. Arabs start the Great Wall and the Great Lighthouse because they finished the Great Wall. Japan starts the Hanging Gardens and finish it. They start the Great Lighthouse, and we lose our wines.

I pause. We had wines. They were coming from Arabia. And NOBODY told me about this?! Thank goodness I didn't declare war.
Oporto gets a taxman. (nothing better. And lux increase seems wasteful (20% already).)
Workers flee into Lagos. Oh dear. It seems like we'll lose Rio Janiero due to that pesky spear if we declare war. So I will reluctantly join a worker there and rush a spear.
Darn it! Well, at least it gets cheaper now that almost everyone has Currency and Monarchy. We can still do the Republic for Currency and Monarchy if we pay a lot.
Iro's still will not accept an alliance with them giving us The Republic and us emptying our treasury.

(-2's inter) Arab spear goes away from Rio Janiero but closer to our troops. How happy.

(-1) Oporto Spear->Spear in 4. And what?! Guimareas riots?! But CA2 didn't say it would. Must have been those wines. Taxman.
Sao Paolo Worker->Harbor in 30. I'd rather it not take too many tiles from Guimareas in the future. A harbor will help.
Ottomans start Sun Tzu's. As do the Iro's, Zulu, and Japanese.
Oh this is so annoying. As JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT TO RIOT, I decide it would be nice to increase lux tax.
You know, I just hate this ridiculous war with the Arabs. And I just noticed. The Arabs got the Great Wall. So we don't want war with them. Shift focus back to the Maya
So Oporto switches to a swordsman. Rio Janiero to a walls. Braga to a 'pult. Lisbon to a spear. Troops move out towards Evora and Rio Janiero. Our centers of assault. Emerita will also receive defenses. (We'll launch our assault towards Bonampak from there. We'll siege Lagartero from Sagres. This will avoid random undefended core complications. A few random units will be left in the core in case a galley runs by.)
No more trading options. We should wait for Arabia or the Maya (yes, they're the enemy, I know) to find something.

(0) Lisbon Spear->Horse in 3. Lagos Spear->Spear in 7. Sagres Sword->Sword in 6.
Great news! Arabia falls into Anarchy! Do you know what that means?! They got a gov tech. Too bad it's the Republic.
We can get Monarchy for 25 gpt and almost all our gold. I say we get it when we want to go into anarchy.

(0's inter) Arabs send out a settler pair.

(1) Guimareas Spearman->Spearman in 3. (it's stuck at 7 spt.) Coimbra Swordsman->Swordsman in 6. Faro Worker->harbor in 15.
How does the AI do it? Arabia now has all the techs.
I am told to take a long break. And so I do. But now I am back.

(1's inter) Nothing really.

(2) Maya falls into anarchy. They got Monarchy. Good.
I check that the Iro's will give Currency for the least (19gpt since Maya require straight cast.). We trade and get back an extra 5g. The Luddites are now medieval!!! We get Monarchy from the Maya for Currency and 260g (because they can't have gpt).
We don't revolt yet; we don't have quite enough 'barrier' money to last anarchy.

(2's inter) Zulu and Iro's ally against Arabia. Like that's gonna matter. Arabia still has those walls.

(3) Lisbon Horsey->Horsey in 3. Oporto Spear->Sword in 6.
Horse remains in Lisbon as landing defense (and MP). Our troops are almost all in position. So war will occur next turn.
The other civs are up Republic, Feudalism, and Monotheism at most.

(3's inter) Zulu Impi successfully defends against an attacker in that Arabic colony town. Maya ally with Iro's against Arabia.

(4) Arabs start Sun Tzu's. Guimareas Spear->Spear in 3. Rio Janiero Walls->rax in 40.
This is interesting Arabia may have something to be happy for. We'll be defending them with our assault. Declare war on Maya.
Capture 2 slaves. Move about 6 swords into Lagartero and Bonampak combined.

(4's inter) Mayan warrior enters Lagartero. That's it.

(5) Emerita Spear->Sword in 10. Coimbra Spear->Spear in 4. Braga 'pult->'pult in 10.
Attack does not occur, extra troops enter.

(5's inter) Sadly, a warrior exits Lagartero. A swordsmen kills one of ours but is redlined and in the open.

(6) Lisbon Horsey->Horsey in 3. Sagres Sword->Sword in 5.
Uskudar finishes SoZ. Copan finishes Great Lighthouse. Japanese start Sun Tzu's (again).

Lagartero's influence expands. Tikal becomes a city.
Sword wins against reg spear 2/5 in Lagertero. Another wins 3/4 against a reg spear. We capture Lagertero. It seems such a waste to raze it and resettle. So I keep it. (There's only 1 foreign citizen a little culture. It will have no borders with the Maya later on. So it'll be alright.) And as I type that, I get a resistor. Lagartero->Catapult in 20.
Reg sword beats that redlined sword and gets promoted 4/4.
Sagres's sword beats the warrior 2/4.
Two swords at Bonampak attack and both win 2/4 and 3/4. Another sword is there, but I'd rather wait.
Diligently press 'enter'

(6's inter) Random troop movements none of which are Maya.

(7) Guimareas Spear->Sword in 5. And Lagos riots?! Why does CA2 not tell me any more? Why? As punishment I switch it to a swordsman. Byzantines start Sun Tzu's as do the Arabs.
Troops begin to march towards Tikal, however useless that may be, and will stop in either Braga or Evora for healing.
I call ridiculosity on this! The one sword at Bonampak attacks. And wins redlined. But there's still another spear in there!!! I'm going to send another swordsman.
Workers get to connecting Lagartero.

(7's inter) Warrior exits Tikal and goes onto our hill at Evora. Dopey me. I forgot to put something on there. Luckily we have swords sitting there.
Sorry guys, I was told to go to bed. My turn will be updated rather late.

(8) Evora finishes the harbor->walls in 20.
Arabs restart Sun Tzu's.
Sword attacks at Lagartero and wins 2/3. And yet another spear is there. I'm thinking they're using the money I gave them quite well....
Horse retreats against 2/3 warrior in Evora.
Vet sword finishes it off 4/4.

(8's inter) Many troops approach Rio Janiero.

(9) Lisbon attains 15 spt. Horses now created in 2. Oporto Sword->Sword in 6. Coimbra Spear->Spear in 4.
Palace expansion.
Lisbon is about to riot at size 10. So I guess we need those Arabic wines again. Which we can't get.
Lux to 40%!!!
Sword moves to the correct side of the river under the spear defended sword stack.

(9's inter) No attacks, but a Lot of troops move in.
Iro's start Knight's Templar. Arabs restart Sun Tzu's. Tikal expands culturally.

(10) Last turn; no builds complete.
2 swords win at Bonampak 2/4 and 2/4. Yet I believe that is the 7th spear in there? A sword loses 2/4 to the spear. And the last sword wins 2/5!
Capture Bonampak and keep it. And of course, I get full resistors (2). Bonampak->Catapult in 20.
Emerita switches to a spear in 2. Its spear defender leaves towards Rio Janiero (now connected because I took Bonampak.)

(10's inter) Now I know I'm not supposed to do this, but I did. I pressed enter on accident and we survive the attack at Rio Janiero, just so you know. I'll upload the file without this part.

As for the whole game, we have the whole thing under control. I've only lost 2 swordsmen. And I've captured 2 stinkin' towns.

By now, marching on Tikal can occur. Tikal seems to be easy to get once we have catapults. Rush them if you must. And the Maya seem to have capped most of their other towns at size 6. I would actually revolt now. And just defend. Once the Maya want peace we should take it (and techs). currently, our debt is -19gpt, so if we do revolt, we won't run out of money (max 8 turns anarchy * 19gpt < 180g.) We should be fine unless someone demands (foolishly).

The AI do have chivalry, and may have Theology (unlikely). But they definitely don't have Engineering yet. Good luck to the next player.

As for pictures, will that do?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Turnset2Pic1.gif

And this is our <<SAVE>> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Hovind'sLudditesTribute550BC.SAV)

Sanabas - up
Bucephalus - on deck
Despair888 - played before Tribute
HomeyG - was skipped. :(
Tribute - just played and declared war on the Maya

Looks good. I'll play tomorrow sometime.

Suggestion: Maybe you should resettle Tikal?

Suggestion: Maybe you should resettle Tikal?
I would raze and re-settle Tikal 2 NE of it's current location. It becomes CxxC with Lagartero, Rio Janeiro, and Evora. :) :scan:

Brilliant!

I'd rather just defend for now. You see though I do know most of those warriors in that stack will die, Monarchy will help us grow faster and destroy the Mayans faster and raze and replace better. It'll also encourage us to actually build aqueducts, rather than stick with what we've got going now. (We can't remain despots forever; we barely have enough money to spend on techs!)

I have a plan.

1. Burn Tikal.

2. Re-settle 2NE.

3. Peace with Maya for stuff.

4. Buildup for Arab war.

5. Declare on Arabia.

6. Take Baghdad, Anjar, and Leiria, raze Najran.

I agree that such a plan would be nice. However, if we did only that we'd be stuck in Despotism and be very technologically behind. We might also be unsuccessful in both ventures, wasting many units and gaining little ground. (Tikal and all Arab settlements receive the 50% defense bonus due to walls or cityhood.)

Scientists will be necessary to starve captured cities.

P.S. Call me George Patton. I am a military strategist.

Sanabas? Did the Mayans get owned? Or did we revolt?

Sanabas? Did the Mayans get owned? Or did we revolt?

Real life got in the way. And will continue to do so until Monday. So I'll need a skip, sorry guys.

Roster:

Sanabas - skipped due to RL
Bucephalus - up
Despair888 - on deck
HomeyG -
Tribute -

I'm stuck until Thursday, too.

Despair then?

It's thursday, so Bucephalus is up.

It's thursday, so Bucephalus is up.

I would think Sanabas has picked it up:

Real life got in the way. And will continue to do so until Monday. So I'll need a skip, sorry guys.

heh, sorry about that. RL is being a pain this week. I will get this played within 24 hours or so.

OK, finally got my set played. Not much to report, got monotheism out of the mayans, got 170 gold out of the iroquois to declare on the arabs, and we're now a monarchy. The mayans are marching through our territory to declare on someone else, the arabs have just 4 cities left and are facing iroquois knights, so they will likely be dead soon. Hopefully the Iroquois make peace first and break our alliance, so we can make peace too and grab more tech.

Preturn: Wake up various units. No point having units fortified in our interior, except as MP. Move various swords and spears towards the front, and kill the sword next to Rio.

IBT: We lose Rio
Japanese & Iro ally against the Arabs

530BC: Recapture Rio
Notice we're still in despotism. Revolt, draw 8 turn anarchy

510BC: Kill a couple of Mayans

490BC: Raze Tikal

470BC: Iro build Sun Tzu's, Zulu build KT, Bonampak resistance ends

450BC: Peace with Maya, they give us Monotheism. Start marching units towards arabia

430BC: Iro give us 170 gold to ally against the Arabs.
Kill an archer, pop an MGL.

410BC: Rush FP in Lagos

390BC: FP built. Auto-raze Anjar, capture Baghdad

370BC: We're a monarchy

350BC: Capture Leiria.

There's a settler built already, it should found a city on the coast & river 1NE of Anjar's ruins.

Mayans have replaced Tikal, we can throw in more cities near there if we want. There's a couple of settlers on the way, they can also be used to fill Arab lands as we expand. We're at ~250 gold, +20gpt. We get another ~20gpt back soon from Iroquois deal ending. We need to spend some of that cash on embassies, so we have more options about keeping the world at war.

We're only 2 techs from knights, getting to Cavalry will take a lot of effort, so I think we probably ned to plan on sweeping most of the continent with knights.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/Sana06_350_BC.SAV

Roster:

Sanabas - finally pulled his finger out and played
Bucephalus - up
Despair888 - on deck
HomeyG -
Tribute -

There's a settler built already, it should found a city on the coast & river 1NE of Anjar's ruins.

I am wondering if it might be more advantageous to use it to found a city on the Arab horses as we advance; the other settlers being built are too far away to do this, in my turnset at least, but are closer to Anjar's ruins.

But I said that if you just ended the turn we'd keep Rio.... I sob. At least we got it back.

We rushed an FP with an MGL! And now we got back Leiria.

I wonder what we're gonna do with Mono. Can we sell it? Or is it just because its a prerequisite for chivalry?

How are we ever going to buy/obtain Feudalism?! Waste of money. I hope the Arabs will get pounded enough then.

Umm... While checking out the save, I noticed that Medina is Zulu. Remember, raze Najran.

@Sanabas: Is there an over-riding reason to build horses in Lisbon (ie preparing mass upgrade to knights)? If not, I'd like to switch it to Swords.

*alarm starts ringing out of nowhere* :gripe: :gripe: :gripe: :gripe:

*EAS message comes up*

EAS Emergency Announcement Test

THIS IS ONLY A TEST! IF THIS WAS A REAL EMERGENCY, THERE WOULD BE SWORDSMEN COMING TO RESCUE YOU!

Rio De Janeiro is currently surrounded by a Mayan Spearman Corps, a Javelin Thrower Corps, and 2 Warrior Corps. There are other Mayan corps behind us. The city is sure to be captured, no matter what. Normally, it would be razed, but the Mayans took it again, so they want it back. Citizens: Stay calm. Do not try to escape. Help is on the way.

*alarm starts ringing out of nowhere* :gripe: :gripe: :gripe: :gripe:

*EAS message comes up*

EAS Emergency Announcement

Rio De Janeiro is currently surrounded by a Mayan Spearman Corps, a Javelin Thrower Corps, and 2 Warrior Corps. There are other Mayan corps behind us. The city is sure to be captured, no matter what. Normally, it would be razed, but the Mayans took it again, so they want it back. Citizens: Stay calm. Do not try to escape. Help is on the way.

Umm... While checking out the save, I noticed that Medina is Zulu. Remember, raze Najran.

Since you're not actually one of the people on the roster, can you please cut back a bit on telling us how to play? Please use the lurker tag at the very least. But to respond to your advice anyway, we're not at war with the Mayans, the Mayans are on the march to fight someone else. And there's no reason to raze Najran, the Arabs will be dead soon anyway, fliprisk won't be a big issue.

I am wondering if it might be more advantageous to use it to found a city on the Arab horses as we advance; the other settlers being built are too far away to do this, in my turnset at least, but are closer to Anjar's ruins.

Up to you. As I said, the arabs aren't a big risk, I'd prefer to capture rather than raze their cities, which means we should get their horses anyway I think.

@Sanabas: Is there an over-riding reason to build horses in Lisbon (ie preparing mass upgrade to knights)? If not, I'd like to switch it to Swords.

I prefer horses to swords anyway, but again, it's up to you. I prefer horses for speed, and for later upgrade. We still need swords for now for the attack strength, I was trying to keep a balance of both, with swords built at the front, horses built further away.

But I said that if you just ended the turn we'd keep Rio.... I sob. At least we got it back.

But that would be spoiler info that I'm not going to use. So I played normally. Having swords fortified in defense, and especially having horses fortified away from the front, is silly. Better to attack with the swords instead, so I did. Was a little unlucky, and then a warrior killed our last defending sword in Rio.

We rushed an FP with an MGL! And now we got back Leiria.

Yeah. On reflection, I maybe should have made our first army. But we needed FP, and had nowhere that could build it quickly. We can win the Arab war without an army, and then I think we'll be at peace for at least a little while.

I wonder what we're gonna do with Mono. Can we sell it? Or is it just because its a prerequisite for chivalry?

We can't sell it, we needed peace with the Mayans, and could start in on the Arabs. Mayans only had Republic and Mono to offer us, Republic is useless, Mono is a prereq for knights.

How are we ever going to buy/obtain Feudalism?! Waste of money. I hope the Arabs will get pounded enough then.

We'll get it. Possibly off the Arabs for peace when they're down to one city, possibly we have to spend a lot of cash.

What is the lurker tag?

those are the lurker tags. :scan: You put your comments in between the 2 tags.

IBT: Mayan forces gather around Rio.

330 BC: Begin to rally our forces at Lagos ready for an assault on Najran. Divert settler to Lagos. Archer kills Arab spear near Lagos, capturing an Arab settler.

IBT: More Mayan forces stream past Rio – very unnerving considering every city near to them is undefended.

310 BC: Forces gather at Lagos, units heal.

IBT: Looks like Smokey is heading for the Arabs. Horse defeats Arab archer.

290 BC: Move SOD toward Najran.

IBT: Arabs will give Republic or Feudalism + 200g. Unfortunately we still have an alliance with Iroquois.

270 BC: All newly built troops are being sent to Rio to cover the Mayan border. They have 15 units inside our territory now.

IBT: Iroquois take Damascus. If they don’t give Arabia peace soon, we can say goodbye to a free tech.

250 BC: We capture Najran, no casualties.

IBT: Arab galley sinks Mayan galley. Everybody building Sistine Chapel.

230 BC: Began moving toward Mecca with everything I can muster. I plan to surround Mecca to prevent Iroquois destroying the Arabs before we can get techs for peace. Found Lagos on horses.

IBT: Someone is attacking Mecca, survives by the skin of it’s last red-lined spearman’s teeth.

210 BC: Upon approaching Mecca we find it besieged by many Iroquois knights; there is no question that it will fall next turn. I reluctantly decide to destroy them ourselves, at least we will get the GW as consolation. We destroy the fledgling Arabs, and capture the GW.

IBT. Mayans begin the journey home.

190 BC – 150 BC: Just worker moves.


I’ve continued with military builds, since we are so far behind in tech, I assume that we’ll being doing some pointy-stick research.
Both the Zulu and the Maya look like soft targets
All techs are for sale to us; the best offer for feudalism is 730g (all we have) + 22gpt to Hiawatha.
Najran should be abandoned and moved one tile West IMHO; it sits on a grassland wheat.
I didn't establish any embassies. Once it was obvious that we wouldn't get Feudalism from the Arabs, I thought it likely we might have to buy it, so I kept the money.
There is one settler in place near to the ruined Arab city. Another settler is on it's way to a spot SE of Lagos.




http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/1156195553.sav

Since you're not actually one of the people on the roster, can you please cut back a bit on telling us how to play? Please use the lurker tag at the very least. But to respond to your advice anyway, we're not at war with the Mayans, the Mayans are on the march to fight someone else. And there's no reason to raze Najran, the Arabs will be dead soon anyway, fliprisk won't be a big issue.

Sanabas, I am just helping you and the others. Now, I didn't know that you made peace with Maya.

I will use coaching-style methods.

Why don't you use my short settler plan:

Settle 2NE of Tikal's ruins in the future Second Mayan War.

Settle 1NE of Anjar ruins.

Abandon Najran and re-settle 1E of Old Najran's ruins.

Sanabas, I am just helping you and the others. Now, I didn't know that you made peace with Maya.

I will use coaching-style methods.

a: This isn't a training game.

b: Shouldn't someone trying to coach actually be reading the turnlogs?

c: I'm pretty comfy with my play, I don't think I need much coaching.

Assuming your profile is accurate, you're a regent level player. What makes you qualified to coach a demigod game anyway?


Looks good, Bucephalus. And on reflection, taking the cash to fight the Arabs was a bad mistake by me. It got us 170 gold, but it cost us Feudalism as the Arabs didn't survive long enough. :blush:

Roster: Sanabas -
Bucephalus - played
Despair888 - up
HomeyG - on deck
Tribute -

I am suggesting. And I am a Regent-Monarch player.

Oh, and we can't move it east. It's coastal there.

why don't we all just get along? artagnan just shut up and stop "coaching"..

this game seems to be going reasonably well, imho i think you guys are doing really well.

succession games are pretty long-winded, eh?

First of all, I am being helpful. I will post helpful lurker's comments. And I am NOT shutting up completely. You said, "Let's just get along."

And now the two of us can't. Because you aren't saying it FRIENDLIER! And that REALLY gets my :gripe: out.

FRIENDLINESS=FRIENDS WITH ME

And Sanabas doesn't need much coaching. I agree. He is a Deity or Sid-level player.

And I will use the lurker tags.

I thought that a food resource was under Najran. You can always rush a settler and re-settle wherever.

Well, so far your "helpful" lurker's coments have NOT been very helpful, to say the least..

But ok, whatever.. I hope i have NOT offended you in any way due to my lack of a "FRIENDLINESS=FRIENDS" mentality..

And I can only pray that you will NOT reply to this post in an aggressive or defensive manner, because such action would begin a flame-war (:ar15: :evil:)between two lurkers in a succession game thread which they couldn't have less association with.

Oh, and to those respectful and competent individuals who are playing this game, you are NOT doing a bad job, so keep up the good work. :crazyeye: :goodjob:

I pray that me and my fellow lurker have not disturbed this game too much, and I beg your forgiveness for the inconveniences I may have caused you.:(

OK. Pax D'Artia Mode On.

Despair, you alive?

Despair's dead, and I can play soon. In fact, maybe I'll play in the afternoon.

Despair's dead, and I can play soon. In fact, maybe I'll play in the afternoon.

Works for me

BTW, what are all those numbers for in the save name?

Turn 7. We are at war with 3 civs and have 1 ally.

I have captured 2 towns and have gotten a leader for a knight army.

I cannot reveal more and cannot finish until tomorrow.

(0)I change a size 1 town to a worker. Mecca needs to do SOMETHING, other than get us 1gpt. So it will produce a settler for us, rushed. (It's okay; the Arabs are dead.) It's nice to be cruel, right? Well, we should declare war on the Iroquois, after a while, and so that they lose extra money, sign the Zulu against them. More alliances will come, (not against us). And we will safely take over the Maya while they are distracted. Or, we could have them, declare war on us.... So I call them up, only a spear archer pair and lone spear in sight, Engineering and Theology for 86 gpt. Ask them to leave, and they declare. Everyone's happy, so we lower lux to 20%. Maya get Engineering and Theology and 300 gold for Feudalism. A lot of people have chivalry, invention, and education. Darn it. Embassy with the Maya; they will finish Sistine's in 24. Bad move for them.... Alliance vs Iro's for Chivalry and 1 gold giving them 50 gpt and our side of the alliance. They are now only cautious.
Military shuffle and rush a settler.

Inter: Things move fast. Bucephalus can handle this, but I cannot.

(1) Finish settler in Najran. Build Alcacer de Sal (Near Salt?).
Upgrade one horseman. Maybe we do need a knight. We are up against a mounted warrior and a spearman.

Inter: We lose nothing. But the Impi losses hurt. They lost an impi, a warrior, and a settler to about 4 medievals (killing one, injuring 2.) We are up against 8 active units. Japan declares war on us AND the Zulu. Which is okay, since they are so far away.

(2) We kill a spear.

Inter: They lose a lot of units, and we lose a scout. Zulu lose Medina. And Intombe. Ottomans ally against us.

(3) Build a knight in Lisbon. Build a medieval in Lagos. The reinforcements have arrived.
Settle Guarda. Knight kills medieval. Move to capture Medina.

Inter: Nothing really. Zulu are lucky butts.

(4)
Lose a horse and a sword, but kill a pike and a longbow.
Kill another Pike at Medina. Kill a knight at Medina. We capture it and some slaves (4 of them).

Inter: Ah, shoot. The Ottomans have ancient cavalry (all regs, of course). Also, we are lucky, the Zulu go before the Iro's, so all their remaining units just about get killed. And the Iro's got gunpowder and upgraded their spearman in Basra.

(5)
Kill a longbow.

Inter: Kill a longbow and lose 2 swords.

(6)
Get a MGL Alfonso. We can now make a knight army (once we have the knights).
Kill 2 muskets and capture Basra. Kill a knight but lose a sword. Kill 4 ancient cavs.

Inter: Ottomans declare on Zulu. That's not good. But at least we have no obligation to help them.

(7) Lisbon Knight->Knight in 4. Guimareas Knight->Knight in 8. Lagos Medieval Infantry->Pike in 3.
Alfonso runs to Lagos (nearest rax). Troops approach faraway Damascus (fighting stupid longbows that reveal themselves 1 turn away from our troops. However, this turn is longbow turn....)
Rop with Zulu, so we can 'save' them.
Found Castelo Branco after killing a horse.

Inter: Longbow turn ends with our victory. And it turns out we chose a good ally. Someone has Knight's Templar....

(8) I have to go home soon, so I can't play until tomorrow.
Now that I am back, we are at the assault of Damascus. Vet horse retreats versus 2/4 spear. (They have a trebuchet.) Medieval wins 1/4 and sword wins 3/4 capturing both the Trebuchet and Damascus. Captured. Move more troops into zululand.

Inter: Nothing much. They land a pike near Damascus.

(9) 2 knights in the army. Iro's want peace. But we have an alliance against them. Move troops near Japanese Intombe. Kill pike. We need to rest our northern troops.

Inter: Portuguese ship near our undefended northwest. That's okay. Lisbon has troops. Ottomans ask for peace. Great! We get world map and 14 gold for 5gpt. (Insurance so that we get something if they declare war on us, but not so much loss if they don't)

(10) Lose medieval to a samurai. But kill a samurai and a medieval back with my knights.
Upgrade horse.

Notes: We can make peace with Japan this turn. But don't. We can almost take Intombe. (They only have a trebuchet and a redlined samurai left. We've got about 2 swords and 2 2/4 knights there. I only built troops, and the sucky towns have started some buildings. There are culture flips, so build temples when you can. Some troops are for garrison, but you can upgrade horsemen now that we have lots more money. Use the knight army as best you can. Hopefully, we can end the war once we have heroic Epic building capabilities.

<<SAVE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/58522/Hovind_sLudditesTribute50AD.SAV)>>

I think that maybe you picked the wrong fight; We should be thinking about the GL in Zimbanwe IMHO.

It's fine, right? Instead of staying with swordsmen and horsemen and catapults and spearmen, we are now to knights and medievals and trebuchets and pikemen. We no longer have the disadvantage against the AI that would have occurred if we would have chosen to fight with the Zulu. Additionally, the Zulu territory is deep, and the amount of roads that they can use to their advantage is so large that bypassing towns wouldn't have been helpful.

Additionally, with no barrier, or underdefended border towns (would have been less than 1 spear per border town) would have been very susceptible to capture.

So if you want a war like that, you can do it later. I actually chose the war because of the free stuff I seemed liable to get from the Iroquois. Which I did. And we're much bigger and better because of it.

Version: C3C 1.22
Difficulty: Demigod
Variant: Zero research. We are not allowed to use the great library either.
VC: All enabled, all allowed. Unless we want to specify SS? :crazyeye:
Settings: Open to discussion. 'pelago or pangaea? goody huts allowed?
Rules: Reputation good, exploits bad.

Roster:

Sanabas
Bucephalus
Despair888
HomeyG
Tribute
Beorn-el-Feared?

[delurk] Rules say no GL.

Oh yeah! Good thing we have you here D'Artagnan. There is value in a lurker after all.

It's fine, right? Instead of staying with swordsmen and horsemen and catapults and spearmen, we are now to knights and medievals and trebuchets and pikemen. We no longer have the disadvantage against the AI that would have occurred if we would have chosen to fight with the Zulu. Additionally, the Zulu territory is deep, and the amount of roads that they can use to their advantage is so large that bypassing towns wouldn't have been helpful.

Additionally, with no barrier, or underdefended border towns (would have been less than 1 spear per border town) would have been very susceptible to capture.

So if you want a war like that, you can do it later. I actually chose the war because of the free stuff I seemed liable to get from the Iroquois. Which I did. And we're much bigger and better because of it.

There is no need to take things so personally, it was just an opinion. And as D'art points out, against the game rules.

Having opened up the save, I have something else for you to get defensive about: Our entire border with the Maya is protected by 1 med. Inf., 1 spear, & 2 trebs, while the rest of our forces are spread out throughout Zululand.
Given that the Maya have knights, and our core cities can be reached in two moves, how can that be considered sound military strategy?

I'm guessing Sanabas is up then?

It's dying out isn't it?

Smeg. I was being slack about prodding whoever was up, I didn't realise I was. I'll play tonight/tomorrow.

Sanabas? RL giving you a hard time?

I hate moving house. If anyone wants to take it and play a set, please do. Otherwise I will play mine sometime soon, really. I'm not going MIA, I'm just getting sidetracked.

:bump: What is happening with this one?

Dying/dead. All depends on Sanabas and the willingness of other people to continue. I played last, so....