I've already seen some threads like this. I want to learn with you. Please, help me with tips and your analyses.

Thanks.

It's a Noble, standard continents map.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/672/jorgeamericanssettingsck6.jpg

I´m industrious and organized. I don´t usually build early wonders, so I must adapt my game style. My basic strategy is build a economic and industrious force and then win the game by diplomacy or space race.

Well... you should probably have shown that in post 1, as well as, you know, the starting position?

Good start point.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6115/jorgeamericans4000bcpd0.jpg

I got 41 bucks with tribal villagers, just founding Washington.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/491/jorgeamericanswashingtonuf3.jpg

Washington gonna be a commerce/science city. What do you think?

I got straigth to pottery.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9945/jorgeamericanspotteryyf6.jpg

I thought bronze working very tempting, but I want roads and granaries ASAP.

3800 BC

Just got more 40 bucks with tribal villagers. Washington has expanded its borders.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9610/jorgeamericans3800bcub7.jpg

Not that I'm really disagreeing with you, but I understand the idea behind the BW rush to be that you've got plenty of turns before that first worker comes out (as you build a warrior or two), and having BW first lets you pop rush something just in case somebody shows up on your doorstep sooner than you're ready for.

But, I also find the "always go for BW" to be kind of boring, so let's see what happens here.

Your first city looks pretty solid. Could you turn on resource pointers in your next screenies, please? I"m trying to make out if that is indeed wheat two squares north of your capital's centre square.

Not that I'm really disagreeing with you, but I understand the idea behind the BW rush to be that you've got plenty of turns before that first worker comes out (as you build a warrior or two), and having BW first lets you pop rush something just in case somebody shows up on your doorstep sooner than you're ready for.

But, I also find the "always go for BW" to be kind of boring, so let's see what happens here.

Your first city looks pretty solid. Could you turn on resource pointers in your next screenies, please? I"m trying to make out if that is indeed wheat two squares north of your capital's centre square.

Thanks for the advices. Let's see what happens.

I'll turn resource pointer for next screen shots. And, its wheat! :)

One more piece of advice: if you want input on the game, consider waiting a little for it. For example, after posting the first screenshot, you could have given us a little more details about your next moves and we could have analyzed those. So, more talk, less action. This could take a while, so if you need your Civ fix right away you could consider starting other games in the meantime. :)

As for your present start, yeah, seems ok...ish... Only one resource for your capital?!? For your sake, I hope you'll get copper or iron or horses in the capital's fat cross, otherwise it's not much of a capital. Unfortunately for you I don't see other resources around, but you might discover more as you move north and east. Oh, and the east tiles in your fat cross are just 1Food1Hammer, right? Not really a treat... :( What about the forrested tile 1North2West from your settling spot? Is it a hill? Ditto for 1SE. Anyway, it seems you won't have much production early on. Cottages might be the way to go. At least you're lucky with your flood plains, they'll let you build cottages on the 1F1H tiles and still grow.

And about the research: since your first city is so poor in production, you might want to locate a copper source really fast, so you can found your second city there. That means you'll have to go for Bronze Working as soon as you finish with pottery. Consider moving your first warrior north of the city (to the west it seams that you've come to the end of the world), then to the east, and the warrior you're building now to the SE and then S. Not sure what to make of the strip of earth below you. It might continue, or it might be just a small peninsula.

Also, since you have fishing, consider searching for some seafood along the coast (southern coast?).

Start with Agriculture -> Pottery, farm the Wheat first, then cottage the floodplains. Then BW, switch to Slavery immediately, and whip whatever you need.

A Granary should be high priority. It's debatable whether it should go before the first Settler, or after. When building Settlers/Workers, wait for the city to grow to the size 4-6 (build Warriors/Barracks), then switch to Settler, wait until you can whip for 2-3 pop, and whip.

Make sure you work the farm and cottages all that time. Don't build any mines just yet, since the automatic city Governor will use them, so you'd have to micromanage yourself every time the city grows.

One more piece of advice: if you want input on the game, consider waiting a little for it. For example, after posting the first screenshot, you could have given us a little more details about your next moves and we could have analyzed those. So, more talk, less action. This could take a while, so if you need your Civ fix right away you could consider starting other games in the meantime. :)


Ok, I'll do this. My imediate plan is finish the second warrior, then build two workers, farm the wheat and chop my first settler. I´m searching a good position to a production city.

What do you think?


As for your present start, yeah, seems ok...ish... Only one resource for your capital?!? For your sake, I hope you'll get copper or iron or horses in the capital's fat cross, otherwise it's not much of a capital. Unfortunately for you I don't see other resources around, but you might discover more as you move north and east. Oh, and the east tiles in your fat cross are just 1Food1Hammer, right? Not really a treat... :( What about the forrested tile 1North2West from your settling spot? Is it a hill? Ditto for 1SE. Anyway, it seems you won't have much production early on. Cottages might be the way to go. At least you're lucky with your flood plains, they'll let you build cottages on the 1F1H tiles and still grow.

My capital will be a commerce/science city. I'll irrigate the tiles beside the river and make cottages elsewhere (targeting 40 foods for size 20 city).


And about the research: since your first city is so poor in production, you might want to locate a copper source really fast, so you can found your second city there. That means you'll have to go for Bronze Working as soon as you finish with pottery.

I'm planning this.


Consider moving your first warrior north of the city (to the west it seams that you've come to the end of the world), then to the east, and the warrior you're building now to the SE and then S. Not sure what to make of the strip of earth below you. It might continue, or it might be just a small peninsula.

I like to make a "spiral" exploration, searching for best city positions, instead of a straigth exploration to others civilizations. So, my second warrior will move south.

Thanks for all advices,

Jorge

Seems like a good plan overall. Since you will also have the wheel fast enough, that means that your two workes can get busy building roads when you have nothing important to do with them. (yeah, I know you'll have cottages to build :D , but you won't get to work too many of those very soon. maybe 3 or 4?)

About the exploration. Yeah, moving south seems ok. If you run into a peninsula, you should know soon enough, and if it's a larger piece of land, where, it just means there's stuff to explore. :)

I'm usually playing a much more balanced game - the cities aren't that specialized - but this will probably change since I've seen what city specialization can do. Let's see how you bring this home.

One more thing: when you turn on the resources you'll see their arrows point all in the same direction. You can tell by that about where you are (North, South, center). If you're South, you might want to stop exploring at the first site of tundra, at least in the beginning. On the other hand when you do have a little scouting time to spare it's interesting to see if it's possible to eventually block an entire part of the land towards that coast.

Washington gonna be a commerce/science city. What do you think?

Are you sure? Did you count the food?

I'm usually playing a much more balanced game - the cities aren't that specialized - but this will probably change since I've seen what city specialization can do. Let's see how you bring this home.

I play a balanced game, but using specialized cities. :) I just have to remember to make a Great Person Farm. I usually forget.

I need to focus a bit more in wonders, since my civ is industrious and wonders empower city specialization.

Jorge

VoiceOfUnreason: What exactly are you saying? :D That he has less or more food than he needs? I think his idea is ok, since he'll want to use the whip too at some point. Better to have some farms since they give excess food. I'd just say it's not worth farming every flood plain right away, it seems better to perhaps go farm-cottage-farm-cottage or something like that. At first whipping will take out workers from the cottages but the city will grow back fast with the farms, then when he has enough working farms he might whip from the farms and let the cottages work. What do you think?

Edit: jorge, one of my friends who hasn't had that much time to play Civ lately went for the fun side of it and just played on low difficulties. I think in one game he had one GP farm for each type of GP! :D It was insane, he got tons of GPs, just coming out one after another. Granted, this won't be possible on Noble, but it sure was a fine sight. :)

VoiceOfUnreason: What exactly are you saying? :D That he has less or more food than he needs?

I'm saying neither of those things, but instead suggesting, perhaps too obliquely, that there are Questions To Be Asked [tm] when considering the future of a city, and when trying to improve thinking about the right questions is as important as thinking about the right answers.

My capital will be a commerce/science city. I'll irrigate the tiles beside the river and make cottages elsewhere (targeting 40 foods for size 20 city).
Once you have Civil Service you can irrigate all the plains tiles around the capital (which will also irrigate the wheat tile) by just farming the one forested grassland tile SE of the city. Cottage all the floodplains and other grassland tiles, mine the one hill, and you'll have an +6 food surplus (+13 with Biology), more than enough to grow the city to full size. 3 cottaged floodplains and the farmed wheat tile should be enough to provide growth until you have CS, and then you have all those lovely, mature cottages. $$$!!!

The other option is to farm all tiles but the hill and turn the capital into your GP farm. This would give you a +14 food surplus with CS, +29 with Biology. You may have trouble building any wonders there with the low production (at least until the late game when you can boost it with waterwheels, workshops, railroads, lumbermills, and State Property), but you could make up for that with specialists and some careful whipping.

(If my food counts are off, please correct me. But I think I'm close enough that my points are valid.)

A Granary should be high priority. It's debatable whether it should go before the first Settler, or after. When building Settlers/Workers, wait for the city to grow to the size 4-6 (build Warriors/Barracks), then switch to Settler, wait until you can whip for 2-3 pop, and whip.

Washington has a good food supply and is not that good in production. So I'll first build one or two settlers and then a granary.

I know that early game has a huge impact but I think is to boring to optimize (granary or settler first) that much. Lets trust in my instincts. :)

Thanks for all advices,

Jorge

If you got BW you could also maybe chop a Settler, though tbh with the floodplains around you you will need the extra health until you can find a better source.

Washington has a good food supply and is not that good in production. So I'll first build one or two settlers and then a granary.

I know that early game has a huge impact but I think is to boring to optimize (granary or settler first) that much. Lets trust in my instincts. :)
In addition to your instincts, take a note:
- You can whip the Granary, too. It's only 2 pop. Set to Granary, wait until size 4, and whip.
- With Granary, the city will regrow from whipping twice as fast. It's a huge bonus to your production through whipping, limited only by that 10-turn unhappy penalty.

In addition to your instincts, take a note:
- You can whip the Granary, too. It's only 2 pop. Set to Granary, wait until size 4, and whip.

Its a good option. I don't like whip, but makes sence with granary. You exchange pop for better pop growth.

- With Granary, the city will regrow from whipping twice as fast. It's a huge bonus to your production through whipping, limited only by that 10-turn unhappy penalty.

Granary is the best improvement for a city in most cases. You double your growth. Who wants to double the rate of investments? :rolleyes: I think everybody does.

I don't like whip.

Um, get over it? A game where you make a deliberate effort to abuse the whip beyond all reason can be very enlightening.

Um, get over it? A game where you make a deliberate effort to abuse the whip beyond all reason can be very enlightening.
I agree. Those aren't real people you're sacrificing, so relax! It's part of the game and there to be used, even exploited.

Next game session...

My first warrior explores north territory. Finds corn, spice and pig. He more 50 bucks for tribal villagers.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9008/jorgeamericans3400bcnorthuw9.jpg

During this, hinduism and buddhism have been founded.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9242/jorgeamericanshinduismandbuddhismgj2.jpg

My other warrior went south and got me 20 bucks for tribal villagers.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7562/jorgeamericans3400bcsouthtw9.jpg

I've just discovered Pottery and I'm going to Bronze Working.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1506/jorgeamericanspotteryyw1.jpg

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/377/jorgeamericanspathtobronzeworkinget8.jpg

Its now 3400 BC and here is my save game.

Here is the exploration plan for my two warriors:

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7371/jorgeamericans3400bcexplorationplanhn3.jpg

Hmm, I see some forrest directly south of the peak south of your capital, but I wonder if it's going to be a larger landmass or not.

Do you have any plans for your second city? You already have wheat, so the southern location won't be very useful (for now). Anyway, you'll probably want to scout a little more and also see where and if you get any copper.

Not a lot of advice this time. Play on! :)

doesn't look like a large landmass to your south.
Still useful to check, since you WANT TO FIND COPPER.

I'm afraid you're on a not so crowded continent = no trading :eek:

you may build a work boat for some more scouting (will be used later to connect a seafood source hopefully)

About early wonders, the early ones are on the religious path = not for you (no mysticism yet).
Pyramids are great + you are organized : police state can be very useful, if you find a (target) neighbour. Later on, with lots of cottages, US can be good to have early : $rushing is really powerful.

I think I saw something: is that southern forest on tundra?! If so, that you're in the extreme south.

Thanks for all advices.

I'll have another worker soon, so let me show you my plan for washington.

It'll be a commerce/science city. I'll irrigate wheat and food plains. Build cottages on other tiles. Maybe let a couple of forrests to mantain health.

Targeting a size 20 city, is needed 40 foods. Every tile must produce 2 foods. So, just count how many < 2 food tiles the city has and compares with > 2 food tiles.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4904/jorgeamericans3400bcwashingtonplanwx6.jpg

7 Red tiles = 1 foods (-7 from average)
1 Blue tile = 3 food (+1 from average)
3 Green tiles = 4 foods (+6 from average)

I've just finished another play session.

My exploration has confirmed a peninsula at south.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5987/jorgeamericans3320bcsouthkq3.jpg

At north, I got some some problems...

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2554/jorgeamericans3280bcanimalsse1.jpg

but survived from the panther attack. While resting, a spanish warrior found me. So, they are probably NE.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4585/jorgeamericans3200bcrestingtf5.jpg

And I talked with Isabella. Hmmm... she's not happy.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6588/jorgeamericans3200bcisabellaut7.jpg

Continues...

you should not for the flood plains
you should cottage them

and don't worry about isabella.
Just wait until she builds the hindu shrine, and take it from her ;)

In 3040 BC, I've finished my first worker and a greek scout found me. They're probably at NW.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2180/jorgeamericans3040bcworkeryy1.jpg

And I met Alexander.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3883/jorgeamericans3040bcalexanderpf9.jpg

Washington is building a warrior, just to reach size 3 and change to another worker. What do you think about it?

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6249/jorgeamericans3040bcbuildingwarriorfb1.jpg

Here is an overall view.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2069/jorgeamericans3040bcrv2.jpg

Any comments?

i would finish the warrior then settler, then see what you need

You should farm the floodplains N from your capital (S from the Wheat), since it will chain irrigate the Wheat farm after CS for 1 more food.

Otherwise you'll have a hard time chaining to it from other places.

It is not the high priority, of course. Build the Wheat farm and cottages on the rest of floodplains at first.

The best place for the second city is that Forest/plains 3 tiles S 1 W from the capital. It'll overlap with capital but mostly sea tiles, and it'll include 3 special food resources in the fat cross. Settler/Worker factory at first (needs border expansion), nice GP farm later.

Washington is building a warrior, just to reach size 3 and change to another worker. What do you think about it?
Wait until Warrior is complete, wait until BW is researched (switch to Slavery immediately), wait until size 4 (do not move that Warrior outside to prevent 'we fear our safety'), set to Worker, wait 1 turn, whip for 2 pop, apply overflow to a Settler, but then (a turn after) switch to something else, like Granary/Barracks, until size 4 or 5 again. Then whip Settler. You can also chop one forest (the one SE from the capital) for that Settler before whipping.

Then continue Granary/Barracks.

Hmm, I don't know about not farming the flood plains. That either means that later you won't be able to use all your tiles, or that you'll have to replace your grown cottages with farms, neither of which I like...

And as Andrei_V said, definitely farm the flood plain next to your wheat for +1F from irrigation.

Hmm, I don't know about not farming the flood plains. That either means that later you won't be able to use all your tiles, or that you'll have to replace your grown cottages with farms, neither of which I like...

And as Andrei_V said, definitely farm the flood plain next to your wheat for +1F from irrigation.
that's a long shot
CS isn't applying now, so it's not high priority.
About food, you've got enough for a while, but if you want to grow a little faster (whipping time) a flood plain farm can be useful all right.
But one is enough!

After CS you'll have 2 food surplus from the city tile, 3 from the Wheat farm, 2 from the floodplains farm, 2 from cottaged floodplains. Total 9, so you'll be able to work all 7 1F tiles, and still grow. Just cottage everything in sight.

CS isn't applying now, so it's not high priority.
Straight CS slingshot (with all those cottages it'll be easy), and you'll get it between 1000 and 900 BC.

Cottage plains before grassland, and build the 1F3H mine, that's gonna be enough to build Oracle on time.

that's a long shot
CS isn't applying now, so it's not high priority.
About food, you've got enough for a while, but if you want to grow a little faster (whipping time) a flood plain farm can be useful all right.
But one is enough!

Well, he could be getting Civil Service quite fast. Depends on which path he wants to go. And better to plan now for what is an easy +1F addition than to have to make changes later, no?

And again, coming back to cottages vs farms on the floodplains. My point was to build farms there if he wants to grow faster, and for now build the cottages on grassland. I might change my mind though. :D Spreading irrigation to the 2N1W, 1N2W (still don't know if it's a hill or not), 1W, 1SE, 2S1E, and 2S grasslands would initially only need the 1N farm, right? And then he can chain it from there through grasslands. So if he ever needs some extra food he can go with those tiles. That means he should farm 1N, cottage the rest of the floodplains and the next cottages should go on grasslands that will be farther away from the irrigating start point: 2S, 1N2W. I hope this makes sense and I didn't misstype anything. :crazyeye:

Straight CS slingshot (with all those cottages it'll be easy), and you'll get it between 1000 and 900 BC.

Cottage plains before grassland, and build the 1F3H mine, that's gonna be enough to build Oracle on time.

Does he really want the Oracle here? I don't have enough time on my hands to look for other city spots, but my feeling is that it would me mostly wasting GP points in here. He won't be able to build a lot of wonders, going cottaging means no specialists, so the GP points (granted, only 2, but they do add up :D) aren't likely to be used. Also any religion he might found (Confucianism?) will probably appear in another city, but that's another thing. I don't know if the algorithm will prioritize a city with the Oracle for founding a religion, and he'll likely have more than just two cities by then.

You do have a good point about his having enough food though.:goodjob:

He will certainly get one Prophet from the Oracle, the rest should be GSs, anyways. If you don't build the Oracle in the capital, you'll need another city for this, that is, wait until it grows, border-expands, tile-improved. That's a lot of time.

Better set up the second city ASAP for Workers-Settlers, and focus on the Oracle and research in the capital. Maybe build another Settler for the 3rd city (eg to connect to Copper-Horses), but not more.

Jorge, I don't know why you're so obsessed with feeding that city to size 20, especially given your stated aversion to making full use of slavery. Maybe it's because I play alternately on Prince and Monarch, where having a city grow too big too fast is a bigger problem than not having enough population.

But regardless of that, consider that having a bigger population than the AI is not much of an advantage at this point and can, in the early game, in fact be a burden. What is a big advantage over the AI? Technology. How do you get a tech lead? Not with farms, my friend. With cottages. (Unless you want to try a specialist economy, of course, but I consider that a more advanced strategy, and I'm only just now trying it out myself.)

You've indicated that you want Washington to be a science/commerce city, and to me, that means cottages everywhere possible, especially on floodplains. Remember that floodplains are by definition beside a river and therefore provide one extra commerce; with a cottage and the Financial trait, that gives you a +2 commerce bonus on them immediately as well as +1 food. A cottage on a non-river grassland tile will not give you any sort of bonus.

You can't irrigate the wheat tile until you get Civil Service, so farming the floodplain to its south is pointless until then. I therefore disagree with everyone urging you to do that. Furthermore, once you get CS, you can farm the forested plains tile 1NW of Washington to irrigate the wheat and still have a cottage on the floodplains. Working the wheat tile and a cottaged floodplain will provide you with plenty of surplus food for sufficient city growth.

once you get CS, you can farm the forested plains tile 1NW of Washington to irrigate the wheat and still have a cottage on the floodplains.
That makes sense. Cottage them all, then.

with a cottage and the Financial trait

He's organized, not financial. ;) Other than that, good points. One question though: is a city on a river automatically irrigated and considered able to spread irrigation?

One question though: is a city on a river automatically irrigated and considered able to spread irrigation?
After CS, yes.

Yeah, of course, after CS. Thanks. I guess I always had a farm near the city or never wondered if it did spread irrigation or not.

Thanks everybody for so many tips and advices. It's really interesting to evaluate and compare so many good points. :)

Wait until Warrior is complete, wait until BW is researched (switch to Slavery immediately), wait until size 4 (do not move that Warrior outside to prevent 'we fear our safety'), set to Worker, wait 1 turn, whip for 2 pop, apply overflow to a Settler, but then (a turn after) switch to something else, like Granary/Barracks, until size 4 or 5 again. Then whip Settler. You can also chop one forest (the one SE from the capital) for that Settler before whipping.

Then continue Granary/Barracks.

Andrei, I'll go for another worker first. I prefer to invest now in growth (farms) and mobility (roads) to my expansion. And then I'll mine a hill to help the warrior production.

But your advice is really good! :goodjob: I'm sure I'll do something like this. To whip a settler or a granary makes a lot of sense.

He's organized, not financial. ;) Other than that, good points. One question though: is a city on a river automatically irrigated and considered able to spread irrigation?

Thanks, Carl. You've answered Sisiutil for me. If I were financial I would cottage beside river to get the bonus. So, I prefer to irrigate than and cottage elsewhere.

Jorge, I don't know why you're so obsessed with feeding that city to size 20, especially given your stated aversion to making full use of slavery. Maybe it's because I play alternately on Prince and Monarch, where having a city grow too big too fast is a bigger problem than not having enough population.


Sisiutil, I think quite easy to manage a size 20 city in Noble. And its a costal city. So, I can build a harbor and handle health problems.

And I'm getting used with the whipping idea. :rolleyes:

He's organized, not financial. ;) Other than that, good points. One question though: is a city on a river automatically irrigated and considered able to spread irrigation?
Whoops, I forgot he's playing as Roosevelt and not Washington. Even so, cottages on rivers still provide a +1 commerce bonus right off the bat, so I'm dead opposed to farming them unless you absolutely have to, which you definitely don't. Floodplains are the best tiles for cottages whatever your trait. I only farm them if the city is going to be desperate for food otherwise, which is definitely not the case here.

But it's your game, Jorge, and ultimately your decision. Health and happiness issues probably aren't as problematic on Noble anyway, so you can get away with faster population growth.

If you decide to go the farming route, then I highly recommend that you turn this city into your GP farm. Build/whip a library ASAP, then run a science specialist or two. Chop the Great Library here as well (try to find and hook up marble; with Washington's low production, you'll benefit from its help). Then add the National Epic. Without the benefit of cottages (I think you're going to need workshops on some of those grassland tiles instead), try to run as many science specialists here as you can.

Wow are ya'll really doing this now?
Amazing, I would just say try it out a little. There is really no need to forum every move you make, it takes away from playing and learning.
Sisiutil; I am mastering all aspects and victories on Noble first before moving to higher levels, but Noble is getting a little easy (I have to try and make it interesting by randomly selecting my leader). Do you think I should just try higher levels? Are they very much harder or not?
I use large and huge maps, no special manipulations of the settings.

Wow are ya'll really doing this now?
Amazing, I would just say try it out a little. There is really no need to forum every move you make, it takes away from playing and learning.
Sisiutil; I am mastering all aspects and victories on Noble first before moving to higher levels, but Noble is getting a little easy (I have to try and make it interesting by randomly selecting my leader). Do you think I should just try higher levels? Are they very much harder or not?
I use large and huge maps, no special manipulations of the settings.
I guess since Jorge is playing this thread on Noble, this isn't really off-topic, so I'll answer here rather than in a PM, and try to do so in context of the game.

My extensive experiences on Prince and limited ones (thus far) on Monarch are behind my cautioning Jorge regarding growing his city too fast, though he can probably get away with it on Noble. That is one of the first substantial differences above Noble difficulty: the happiness and health caps per city are noticeably lower. The AI not only researches faster than you, it also seems to expand faster as well, and this means you will have to fight or trade for happiness or health-boosting resources instead of claiming them off the bat.

This is also one of several reasons why an early war of conquest is, generally, a valuable strategy for most players above Noble. More territory means more resources, which means your cities can grow to a larger size and work more tiles for more commerce and production. If Jorge moves fast enough, he can probably manage a more substantial land-grab on Noble than one would be able to do on Prince or higher. An early war may not be necessary for this game. But it wouldn't hurt.

The advanced AI tech research rate on Prince and above is also behind my urging Jorge to focus more on cottages than farms. Again, this probably isn't as vital in the current game, since the AI researches at par with the human player on Noble.

Most players find the jump from Noble to Prince to be jarring at first. I certainly did. Each level is less forgiving of mistakes and sub-optimal strategies. I'm trying to move to Monarch right now and it's a challenge. What I'm trying to do on Prince currently is to refine my gameplay to not just win, but win handily--basically, to try to adopt higher-level tactics to a lower-level game to get used to them.

So in answer to your question, you could make the jump to Prince, or you may want to try to win a couple more games on Noble with strategies recommended for Prince and higher.

Most players find the jump from Noble to Prince to be jarring at first. I certainly did. Each level is less forgiving of mistakes and sub-optimal strategies. I'm trying to move to Monarch right now and it's a challenge. What I'm trying to do on Prince currently is to refine my gameplay to not just win, but win handily--basically, to try to adopt higher-level tactics to a lower-level game to get used to them.



That way might work for you but i find it best to jump straight in, as soon as i can beat the game adequatly well on one level a few times i make the jump to the next level.

Also the Prince-Monarch gap i found was too large to bother practising strategies on Prince i could use for Monarch so just went for it and started playing Monarch and learning as i went along. I made mistakes but now can now regularly bash my way through.

off topic : noble is an even level, so you don't have to adapt to AIs bonuses. In fact you can't learn to adapt to them, since they don' exist :lol: But noble is forgiving, so you can just improve your knowledge of the game mechanics without losing too many games.

About your start, IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO FARM THOSE FLOOD PLAINS NOW!
it's not good on monarch, it's not good on prince, it's not good on noble!
You're not philosophical. You don't want to build a specialist economy. Worse : you don't know the techs that could allow you to have specialists yet. You need cottages to get commerce. And if you farm the FP and cottage the grassland, you won't work the cottages (farm FP will be 4F 1C 0P, GL cottage will be 2F 1C 0 P :eek:), so they won't grow.
If you cottage the FP, you'll have 3F 2C OP and you will work them = they will grow to hamlets soon.

After some turns of explorations, a warrior has found marble. The other one has found trouble! :) But everything will be fine.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/2445/jorgeamericans2960bcin7.jpg

In 2760 BC, Bronze Working has been discovered...

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2315/jorgeamericans2760bcbronzeworkingls2.jpg

and I changed to Slavery.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2549/jorgeamericans2760bcslaverylc5.jpg

I have two sources of copper next to Washington.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/83/jorgeamericans2680bcbg4.jpg

I'm researching Animal Husbandry to build pastures and reveal horses.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2307/jorgeamericansresearchinganimalhusbandrymk3.jpg

Last events:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4168/jorgeamericans2680bceventlogxj8.jpg

I forget how soon you'll be seeing Barbarian warriors on Noble, but just in case you might want to grab one of the copper sources. The only problem is... the closer copper doesn't give you an ideal city position, while the farther copper will mean increased costs due to distance from palace, and also a longer road to connect the two. I still think the benefits of settling next to the farther copper outweigh the drawbacks I listed before. 1SW of the copper should also net you the pig, the marble, fresh water and also give you another coastal city.

What is your worker doing, by the way?

I forget how soon you'll be seeing Barbarian warriors on Noble, but just in case you might want to grab one of the copper sources. The only problem is... the closer copper doesn't give you an ideal city position, while the farther copper will mean increased costs due to distance from palace, and also a longer road to connect the two. I still think the benefits of settling next to the farther copper outweigh the drawbacks I listed before. 1SW of the copper should also net you the pig, the marble, fresh water and also give you another coastal city.

I've just started planning city spots.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/167/jorgeamericans2680bcplanningnortheastpi8.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8949/jorgeamericans2680bcplanningsouthtj7.jpg

What do you think?

i'm pretty sure you can whip the worker now

Edit : about city spots, don't forget that you're not creative!
either build stonehenge in city A, or move it next to the copper (no expansion soon without stonehenge). The rest i didn't look at too long, but it seems OK (with stonehenge)

edit 2 : no need to grab desert tiles/peaks... land grab is about good tiles!

What is your worker doing, by the way?

My worker is farming the wheat. So washington will build the other worker faster. Than, they'll mine the hill and cottage the other tiles.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4485/jorgeamericans2680bcworkeryk4.jpg

Well, it seems more like you're interested in covering the land then in getting the resources. The C city looks ok (it has another sugar - I think?! - resource 2N from it, right?) but why A, B and D? The location right between the copper and the marble seems perfect for a city. You get both those resources with one settler, and that might mean more wonders. And on noble you have a decent shot to get the wonders you want.

F seems like a completely useless site: no resource, not even on the sea, deserts, no irrigation, overlapping some of the capital tiles. I really don't see any reason for it. E looks... okish... You'll have two useless peaks, but get some good food in it. And it's on the coast again! :D It might be another science city. If you DO settle copper-marble city and E, you might want to consider building the Great Lighthouse (though you'll have to do it fast, one of the AIs might beat you to it) and also the Colossus.

Also, if you build marble-copper city think of cottaging the 1NE flood plain first and then directly build a road through it towards the second city: 2NE-3NE (on the copper, for later use)-2N4E-1N5E-1N6E-marble. This way you avoid mountain & desert tiles (I think construction might take longer on desert and you don't want to walk up and down the mountain every time).

Anyway, if you have other reasons for building those cities where you mapped them, please write them and we'll get back to you.

Why do you build Worker at size 3? You should've waited until 4, set it for 1 turn, and whip. By now it seems like you better finish the worker in the normal way, then let it grow to max cap (using Wheat and floodplains), then whip a Settler.

Otherwise, you'll get a significant overlap in two consecutive 10-turn whip penalty periods, which means the second period will be extended by that overlap. Like, you'll get 1 unhappy for 15 turns, not 10.

Cottage the floodplains before building a mine. Don't forget, you can whip Axes, too. Better do it 2 at a time, that is, put two Axes on top of the queue, wait a turn or two (but not more than 4 hammers total in the first Axe), whip for 2 pop, complete the second one in a normal way (in 1 or 2 turns working mine), then regrow and build something normally during the 10-turn penalty, then repeat again.

Spots D and F look awful. I would never build any cities there. B should be moved 2 tiles E to grab Pigs, Copper, and Marble, and get sea access. If you play Continents, you need quite a few coastal cities to build your Galleons.

Consider also moving A 1 tile NE, C - 1 tile E.

Definitely move city E one tile NE, to get the pigs also.

I think you can build city A first, city E - second. Then B. Then C.

yes i agree u should move city b 2 spaces east... and how do u screenshot?... i forget:(

yes i agree u should move city b 2 spaces east... and how do u screenshot?... i forget:(
PrintScreen.

I'd explore a little more to the north before finalizing C. If you can avoid the two eastern peaks by moving 1W or 1NW, it will be a better city long-term. (Frankly, given your obsession with feeding and growing the capital to maximum size, I'm surprised that you've planned out so many cities with desert and peak tiles within their fat crosses.)

The area around E is problematic. Two peaks, tundra, overlap with the capital, difficult to include all three resources in the fat cross. I don't recommend settling on top of a food resource. You'll regret it later. Settling on most Calendar resources I have no problem with, but you never want to waste food. (Didn't your mom teach you that? Think of all the starving children in Africa! ;) ) The "best" spot seems to be the forested grassland 1NE of where you have it, despite the considerable overlap; either that or move it 1E and forgo the fish since you'll have two other full food sources. In any case, I'd leave it as a low priority for now and settle other cities first.

F is a total non-starter. Waste of a settler and 100 hammers. Don't bother. :cringe:

I agree, B needs to be moved east to snag the copper as well and to get rid of some of those desert tiles. 2E of the current position seems slightly better than 3E, since it keeps more grassland and hills rather than plains. Too bad about the desert to the north, though.

And yes, prioiritize Stonehenge soon.