Ok I've played a few Monarch games at this point and I'm having one hell of a fun, but hard time and I can't really win. I fall into one of two traps. If I focus on maintaining economic and scientific dominance I get the rest of my neighbors declaring war on me. If I focus just on creating enough troops to defend and attack I ened up dropping to 0-10% science and -40 economy.

Anyone have any ideas? Do I just need to bite the bullet and focus soley on military techs and attacking?

Even with two stacks of 10+ swordmen I'm still not able to attack and maintain a rolling economy through plunder.

The trick so far is early warmongering but with pauzes and getting money from the ones you attack. I have had the same problems and I am back to prince again (to my shame but is just more relaxed playing). Razing cities becomes important now because the maintenance is killing you propably. Keep only the very good ones. Take 2 towns of an advisary and rebuild a bit. 10 turns later attack again. Rinse and repeat. I don't know if it really works but this is some of the advice I have gotten.

Other ways to get extra money:
1. Pillage cottages
2. Sell resources for money
3. Sell technologies for money
4. Extort money from weaker opponents.

hard to answer such a vague question, but some keys :

- at the beginning you have a hard time to build enough cities : time to capture some!
- you are losing money at 20% research : time to sue for peace (or to raze one more city, if you're one turn away from alphabet/currency)
- you need some infrastructure/techs to keep afloat. It's useless to try to keep an economy in the green without currency. And if going 80% gold, you need the market more than the library. Same for courthouses : no need to work a gold mine if the city is costing you 12 gpt maintenance.

So a "classical" (for me at least) game would be :
- building some (capital + 1/2/3 ) cities, improving land
- capturing some (1/2/3) cities
- improving land, building infrastructure
- killing off one /2 neighbours
- rebuilding
- all out war (i'm yet trying for a conquest victory, all those captured cities just don't let me avoid domination ;) )

I just managed to eke out my first Monarch win. Killroyan is right, Prince is a little more "relaxing".

I played as Catherine and used a scaled-down Cathy Cottage Spam strategy. I quickly built six cities and gradually took three more (one from barbs, the Christian holy city from the Americans, and an Incan city close to Moscow flipped to me). I had expanded quickly into the jungle north of me, so I had lots of rivers and grassland for lucrative cottages. I skipped Stonehenge; I managed to chop the Oracle and the Great Library for my only early wonders.

Once I got Cossacks, I went a-conquerin'. I only took out Rome, my northern neighbour, then went for a space race win.

It took me this long to finally see why Catherine is so popular. I tried Monarch with my favourite leaders, Caesar and Elizabeth, and got spanked several times. Cathy's traits are perfect for a land grab followed by cottage spam to claim the tech lead. I basically substituted the land grab for the usual early war.

One thing I noticed is that even if you get a tech lead, you can't relax. Huayna was in last place the whole game. I trapped him into a small portion of the continent, so he only had six cities (five after one flipped to me). He didn't even found a religion like he usually does. Even so, he was breathing down my neck tech-wise the whole game. Good thing he shared my religion and was pleased with me for most of the game.

One thing thats helped my transition is to ease my wonder production in the beginning. If I have marble, I go for Oracle and Parthenon, Stone for Stonehenge and Pyramids. If I have neither (which seems to happen fairly often on Monarch) then Ill build Oracle and Stonehenge in whatever cities I have that I can chop it out in a couple turns. The ai is very efficent at building wonders, while before (prince and less) I could grab almost all of them almost every time.

Im at the point where I think I have to step up to emperor, because monarch is getting too easy. I found out (by accident) that capturing a fully functional holy city early, turns the rest of the game into joke. Last night, I even founded christianity (by accident), I was dominating so bad. I was just trying to get CoL early, and Poof... I founded something!

Im at the point where I think I have to step up to emperor, because monarch is getting too easy. I found out (by accident) that capturing a fully functional holy city early, turns the rest of the game into joke. Last night, I even founded christianity (by accident), I was dominating so bad. I was just trying to get CoL early, and Poof... I founded something!

this may not be how anyone else views civ but I kind of think like this now:

monarch is a normal civ game, I like the restrictions(research, happiness, etc). the opponents aren't incompetent and some can keep pace, sorta. but in the end ur gna win.

emperor is the hard civ game, I dislike the restrictions(especially the emperor barbs), and the AI w/ a good start can be huge early. one time I had to play next to egypt when it had copper/gold/flood plains in its capital. at like 1000 BC it was size 9.

yah no point in this post.

My main problem in the game is expanding.... I just can never seem to do it fast enough no matter what mode I'm in... I play in noble mode, but because I read on this forum that peeps go to higher modes to learn how to best expand and be more aggressive, I figured I'd try it out...

I played Prince... I was ahead in techs near the scientific method point and founded 5 of 7 religions. (o prophets until late, go figure, almost no resources, iron, silk, crab) I was also facing 7 other civs on a huge map.

Here is the problem... I had four cities compared to everyone’s ten+

I know I need to expand quicker otherwise when civs start declaring war on you, you can fend them off, but they put you at a stale mate to the point, you can't grow or fight back in their territory.... Plus it would have got to a point that take over would have happened...

I tried to sell education for 320 gold and Russia wouldn't take it....

I was that much in need of cash, but I managed without it.

I think I am going to downgrade size of maps and keep a high number of civs next time... The fact that I had to travel 25-30 turns to get to another civ for war was both a blessing and a curse.

I'm going to play completly different next time and turn this strange failure into something

I just managed to eke out my first Monarch win. Killroyan is right, Prince is a little more "relaxing".

Hey! Congratulations! I was wondering how much longer you were going to fluff around at Prince! :king:

sisiutil is right, monarch isn't relaxing

obsolete is right too, if you play it right, monarch can get quite easy

SO
- if you don't like warmongering (= capturing the size 9 egyptian city ;) )
- if you play casually cIV

don't go further than prince

but:
- if you like warmongering
- if you play epic (or marathon) speed
- if you stay several hours straight on your game

don't go below monarch


for the casual, non epic, not too good at warmongering players like me, it's a challenge, that you have to play right
;)

Im at the point where I think I have to step up to emperor, because monarch is getting too easy. I found out (by accident) that capturing a fully functional holy city early, turns the rest of the game into joke. Last night, I even founded christianity (by accident), I was dominating so bad. I was just trying to get CoL early, and Poof... I founded something!

Nice job, but why don't you tell us how you did that?

What do you mean capturing a holy city early?

By what year/technology should I capture the enemy's holy city? Does this post mean you had three religions - the captured city + confusionism (CoL) + Christianity?

Build up your army, then when you are notified a shrine has been built, head straight for the city and take it (assuming it is not too far off). My earlier mistakes were attacking holy cities before the shrines were built, this is a big blunder. The religion doesn't have a chance so spread, and you will wait a long time before you can build the wonder, which won't really be worth it.

Build up your army, then when you are notified a shrine has been built, head straight for the city and take it (assuming it is not too far off). My earlier mistakes were attacking holy cities before the shrines were built, this is a big blunder. The religion doesn't have a chance so spread, and you will wait a long time before you can build the wonder, which won't really be worth it.

Wonderful!
I'm on it!

Yes. On Monarch, the AI can build the shrine faster than you unless you focus on it, (I'm focusing on military first so they always build shrines for me pretty early). :)

Play as Rome. The Romans make everything feel 1-2 difficulties easier.

Sisiutil -

You're playing Monarch on normal speed, right? Have you tried a slower speed game?

Ok I've played a few Monarch games at this point and I'm having one hell of a fun, but hard time and I can't really win. I fall into one of two traps. If I focus on maintaining economic and scientific dominance I get the rest of my neighbors declaring war on me. If I focus just on creating enough troops to defend and attack I ened up dropping to 0-10% science and -40 economy.

Anyone have any ideas? Do I just need to bite the bullet and focus soley on military techs and attacking?

Even with two stacks of 10+ swordmen I'm still not able to attack and maintain a rolling economy through plunder.

Winning on Monarch really isn't as daunting as it seems at first.

You need to learn some ways to boost your science and/or production early in the game.

The CS-Slingshot (Oracle/Code of Laws at the same time) is viable on Monarch and is great for boosting early commerce/science.

There is also the Metal Casting-Slingshot with the Oracle that works great for boosting early production.

I've had the most success with Elizabeth, Qin and HC. HC is best vannila civ leader for early conquest/domination. Elizabeth and Qin are both good for cultural/science type of victories. Catherine and Washington are also good but Washington suffers from a having late game UU. Caesar is ok but not financial so you'll need to do some early game conquering with Praets.

Pair a good trait with Financial and a good UU and you'll probably do ok.

When conquering cities, it's good to bring along some catapults in order to maintain momentum.

Winning on Monarch really isn't as daunting as it seems at first.

You need to learn some ways to boost your science and/or production early in the game.

The CS-Slingshot (Oracle/Code of Laws at the same time) is viable on Monarch and is great for boosting early commerce/science.

There is also the Metal Casting-Slingshot with the Oracle that works great for boosting early production.

I've had the most success with Elizabeth, Qin and HC. HC is best vannila civ leader for early conquest/domination. Elizabeth and Qin are both good for cultural/science type of victories. Catherine and Washington are also good but Washington suffers from a having late game UU. Caesar is ok but not financial so you'll need to do some early game conquering with Praets.

Pair a good trait with Financial and a good UU and you'll probably do ok.

When conquering cities, it's good to bring along some catapults in order to maintain momentum.

pair financial w/ a moldy banana and a good swift kick in the ass and u'll do fine:).

Sisiutil -

You're playing Monarch on normal speed, right? Have you tried a slower speed game?
Actually, no, the few games I've played, including my sole win, have been on Epic. After everyone saying the slower speeds were a little easier because of unit movement and longevity, I decided that might ease the adjustment.

That being said, I don't know if I'll ever have the patience for a Marathon game.

I think Monarch/Quick is great for testing out different tech/build orders.

For a serious game where you are trying to get some specific goal done then the slower speeds help. Epic gives you more time to adapt your strategy.

I did win a few games on monarch/normal speed and 2 on monarch/epic speed. I don't think i could manage the long games of a marathon speed (my wife thinks my cIV playing already is a good enough cause of divorce :lol:)

Must say the Epic ones where a lot easier, but since i played them as Rome (after Italy won the soccer world cup) it doesn't mean much (praetorians rule + organized is a life saver).

I think monarch, emperor and deity are levels for the warmongers, to counter the AI's inability to wage war properly.
I won a cultural victory on monarch but i was at war for 2/3 of the game (to get enough land). I don't think it's possible to win in a peaceful way.

I did win a few games on monarch/normal speed and 2 on monarch/epic speed. I don't think i could manage the long games of a marathon speed (my wife thinks my cIV playing already is a good enough cause of divorce :lol:)

Must say the Epic ones where a lot easier, but since i played them as Rome (after Italy won the soccer world cup) it doesn't mean much (praetorians rule + organized is a life saver).

I think monarch, emperor and deity are levels for the warmongers, to counter the AI's inability to wage war properly.
I won a cultural victory on monarch but i was at war for 2/3 of the game (to get enough land). I don't think it's possible to win in a peaceful way.

It's possible to get peaceful win all the way to Deity (see godonut's guide) but it is not easy.

This game does favor warmongering. That is evident in how badly the AI fights wars and how the final score is calculated.

if i remember well (too lazy to search), godonut's guide is about a permanent alliance, isn't it?

Winning on Monarch really isn't as daunting as it seems at first.

You need to learn some ways to boost your science and/or production early in the game.

The CS-Slingshot (Oracle/Code of Laws at the same time) is viable on Monarch and is great for boosting early commerce/science.

There is also the Metal Casting-Slingshot with the Oracle that works great for boosting early production.




You don't need any tricks like that to win on Emporer let alone Monarch. You just need to know how to balance war and economy.

Just pick a financial civ that has good starting techs and war in moderation.

if i remember well (too lazy to search), godonut's guide is about a permanent alliance, isn't it?

I'd have to read it again to be sure but I thought it was just getting a cultural victory before the AI could launch it's spaceship.

I'd have to read it again to be sure but I thought it was just getting a cultural victory before the AI could launch it's spaceship.

Ok, i confused it with something else then.:crazyeye:

You got good advice last time on how to play on monarch - read the answers you received in your original thread.
Especially my advice that you seemed to think was funny - however it answers your problem of building up your military while not affecting your research.
I will however repeat it - maximise your build queues - full of units with 1 turn to go, then change civics and build them all, change back when got enough and declare war.
result is maximum time on "peace" civics, minimum time on "theocracy, vasselage" + minimum time paying upkeep for units.

You got good advice last time on how to play on monarch - read the answers you received in your original thread.
Especially my advice that you seemed to think was funny - however it answers your problem of building up your military while not affecting your research.
I will however repeat it - maximise your build queues - full of units with 1 turn to go, then change civics and build them all, change back when got enough and declare war.
result is maximum time on "peace" civics, minimum time on "theocracy, vasselage" + minimum time paying upkeep for units.
I tried this recently and it worked well, though the hammers seem to "diminish" a bit over time if you play this out for too long. It can also help hide your true power from the AI, possibly leading it to declare war on you, which is always preferable.

Ok I've played a few Monarch games at this point and I'm having one hell of a fun, but hard time and I can't really win. I fall into one of two traps. If I focus on maintaining economic and scientific dominance I get the rest of my neighbors declaring war on me. If I focus just on creating enough troops to defend and attack I ened up dropping to 0-10% science and -40 economy.

Anyone have any ideas? Do I just need to bite the bullet and focus soley on military techs and attacking?

Even with two stacks of 10+ swordmen I'm still not able to attack and maintain a rolling economy through plunder.

Monarch is where the fun begins :nuke:
And playing random Civs is the icing on the cake ;)

Generally I adopt 2 strategies, and i wont assume which specific Civ i get.
Which of the 2 strategies I take depends on a key/marker i set: The Unique Unit...
A) If my UU appears pre-IronWorking (ie: Greek-Phalanx, Roman-Praetorian)
- In this case i do Pyramids + Great Library. Build only 2 starting cities, 2 workers, 2 barracks, 1 Obelisk on 2nd city, then build UU, UU, UU, UU... Then it's time to expand by capturing the best cities of the nearest warmonger, and raze the rest. Why build your own city if your opponents can build them for you :lol:
B) If my UU appears post-IronWorking (ie: Japan-Samurai, etc...)
- In this case i do Oracle (slingshot to my UU Tech) + Great Library. Build only 3 starting cities, 2 workers, 3 barracks, 2 Obelisks on my 2nd & 3rd cities, then build UU, UU, UU... Then it's time to expand by capturing the best cities of the nearest warmonger, and raze the rest.
*BUT IF* my UU is so far-off in the Tech Tree and cannot be reached by Oracle-slingshot (ie: German-Panzer, etc...), then i have no choice but to increase my stacks, harrass the nearest warmonger by capturing cities one at a time, and make sure i maintain my Tech Lead.

Sigh... time to move to Emperor level and get a$$-kicked again :cry:

I won a cultural victory on monarch but i was at war for 2/3 of the game (to get enough land). I don't think it's possible to win in a peaceful way.

That's one of my gripes with this game, the harder levels mean there is only one real course of action. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of having more than one way to win.