If there are too many units, imps, worker jobs that all need the same resource (p.e. Oil) and I click on that resource in the civilopedia, the following text appears: "Maximum hypertext links exceeded" and than there are problems with my game.

Is there still a fix known to solve that problem ? I ask, cause I have a work-around for that problem ( no, not to avoid to click on that resource :) ), but may be there are better solutions existing to fix that problem.

And your work-around is? Apart from never opening your civpedia, of course!

There's no workaround. Like in WH2, if you click on iron, there are like 6 million units past the limit. Just keep pressing ok, :).

No, it's hard coded.
However there are a few ways to get around it: ;)
1) Make several Oil (for example) resources with different units/buildings requiring different ones. I wouldn't recommend it, it would be too complicated and maybe game-breaking.
2) Make a smaller mod.
3) Don't use the pedia, as mentioned.
4) Make your own source code.

However there are a few ways to get around it: ;)
1) Make several Oil (for example) resources with different units/buildings requiring different ones. I wouldn't recommend it, it would be too complicated and maybe game-breaking.
2) Make a smaller mod.
3) Don't use the pedia, as mentioned.
4) Make your own source code.
Or dont hypertext link all of them ;)

The work-around:

The entries for the civilopedia are connected with the graphic files "civilopediaA - civilopediaG" in the vanilla Civ 3 Civilopedia folder. Which of these files are used, is determined by the entry "Good_, BLDG_" and so on in the civilopedia and in the editor.

Now, if you use p.e. the start BLDG_ for the strategic resource where the maximum hypertext links are exceeded and make the entries in the civilopedia for that resource with the beginning "BLDG_" the civilopedia uses the new file. The hard coded entry which causes the maximum hypertext links overflow is still made in the old civilopedia file, but as this is not used any longer, this doesn´t matter.

To be sure, that nobody can build an "iron, coal or oil-building" you create an era-none-tech, let´s say we call it "gamemechanism", that is the pereq. for a building, let´s say we call it "gamemechanism" too. Nobody has this tech. This building is the pereq. for the "Iron-building" to which the resource is now connected. The resource now appears as additional information in the tech-tree, too. With this methode not only new resources but also new specialists, agreements and so on can be made visual in the techtree, too. :D :D

The advantages: No more maximum hypertext links overflow and you can see the new resources (or other items) in the techtree when they appear.

The disadvantages: Every entry uses one of your 256 places for buildings, all entries in the civilopedia must be connected with the new pedia-entry and the "Tile Bonus"-information for that resource must be added manually to the new entry (of course when you use the unit-entries of the civilopedia this works too, but you can´t see the entry in the techtree). This methode only works, if the civilopedia is opened by clicking on the icon in the techtree-box (The last sentence was added after the next post of Weasel Op).

These things work great in my mod and are not too problematic to do. When I have more time for that, I will post something about "Enhanced techtrees". :D

:dubious: Er... my head hurts... and I have no idea what I just read. But it sounds like you know what you're talking about.

BadKharma, the hypertext is automatically generated.

:dubious: Er... my head hurts... and I have no idea what I just read. But it sounds like you know what you're talking about.

Sorry Weasel Op for confusing you. I wrote the last reply in a hurry just some minutes bevore I went to work as I thought, when 4 people reply, I shouldn´t let them wait too long.

In my last post I forgot to mention something important: This only works if you open the civilopedia by clicking on the resource icon in the techbox of the techtree (and this is the normal way i gather infos from the civilopedia). It doesn´t work, if you open the civilopedia-entry from outside the techtree (if you set the resource entry from Good_ to BLDG_ for the single resource the game crashes).

I discovered this while working on better direct informations in the techtrees.
I want to see in the techtree when a special resource appears, when I can found embassies and so on...

Soon I will add some screenshots.

May be these screenshots explain it better than my clumsy English :).

The first screene shows an "Ancient techtree". In the info-box there appears an icon for the new resource "iron", discovered with the tech "ironworking". The techtree also shows that you can build the specialist "Scientist" when mathematics are discovered and that you can build "Embassies" with the discovery of "Writing" (and some other things).

When you click on the techbox of the techtree, you get the info of the next screene (here that you get the resource "Iron" when you have discovered "Ironworking").

When you click on the "Iron-icon" in that techbox, you get the civilopedia-info of the next screene. There is no more hyperlink, that can overflow, as now the improvement civilopedia background - and not longer the resource background (that contains the "overflowing" hyperlinks) - is used.

I hope, now the things are clearer. :D :D

Edited: Some of the screenshots are now in the tutorial about "Enhanced Techtrees". You can see them here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4386977#post4386977

Whoa this appears to be the newest editor discovery I have seen although it seems complicated it is very interesting.

Ooohhhh..... I see now. Very interesting. Too bad about the crash though, it would be a real pain (for me anyway) to not be able to navigate through the pedia menus.

Whoa this appears to be the newest editor discovery I have seen although it seems complicated it is very interesting.

Hi BadKharma,

it is not as complicated as it sounds. May be I only explained it complicated :). You must not do great things in the editor. The normal entries in the editor for resources, etc. stay, but you make additional entries for them as improvements and link these entries to your new additional entries for these "improvements" in the civilopedia.txt.

In my eyes the result is a new dimension in doing techtrees but it has no use for mods which need the 256 places for "real" improvements.

May be I post a graphical set with additional icons and reworked text files and biq for the C3C "normal" epic game. Would the right place for such a thread be the graphical forum or the completed mods forum ? It is only a small part of a mod concerning improved gaming concepts for C3C.

Ooohhhh..... I see now. Very interesting. Too bad about the crash though, it would be a real pain (for me anyway) to not be able to navigate through the pedia menus.

Hello Weasel Op,

you can navigate through the pedia menues :) with this methode and don´t get a crash. The only thing is, that when you navigate through the pedia from the infoboxes in the techtree you can avoid the hyperlink overflow. If you navigate through the pedia when starting "outside" the techtree, you have the "resource overflow bug" as you than use the still existing normal navigation through the pedia.

Hi BadKharma,

it is not as complicated as it sounds. May be I only explained it complicated :). You must not do great things in the editor. The normal entries in the editor for resources, etc. stay, but you make additional entries for them as improvements and link these entries to your new additional entries for these "improvements" in the civilopedia.txt.

In my eyes the result is a new dimension in doing techtrees but it has no use for mods which need the 256 places for "real" improvements.

May be I post a graphical set with additional icons and reworked text files and biq for the C3C "normal" epic game. Would the right place for such a thread be the graphical forum or the completed mods forum ? It is only a small part of a mod concerning improved gaming concepts for C3C.
Yes that would be the place for it since it would be a Mod of the original game.

Hello Weasel Op,

you can navigate through the pedia menues with this methode and don´t get a crash. The only thing is, that when you navigate through the pedia from the infoboxes in the techtree you can avoid the hyperlink overflow. If you navigate through the pedia when starting "outside" the techtree, you have the "resource overflow bug" as you than use the still existing normal navigation through the pedia.
Oh. Then what did you mean by this?
It doesn´t work, if you open the civilopedia-entry from outside the techtree (if you set the resource entry from Good_ to BLDG_ for the single resource the game crashes).
I thought you were saying that if you just opened up the pedia (ctrl-C) and looked at the resources it would crash the game.

I thought you were saying that if you just opened up the pedia (ctrl-C) and looked at the resources it would crash the game.

The civilopedia info in the techbox, where the icon is connected to an improvement entry (BLDG_) and the normal civilopedia info when you open the civilopedia with (ctrl-C) or clicking on the civilopedia icons are two different things. The game did crash when I tried to connect these two different things in the editor and renamed in the editor the entry for resources from GOOD_ to BLDG_ . Then the game asked for the special files for improvements (number, single) and said "good bye" and when I deleted these files for the improvement "iron", the game did crash (when I clicked on that improvement icon in the tech box). These crashes only happen if the entry in the editor is set from GOOD_ to BLDG for resources.

There are no crashes if the entry in the editor is not renamed from GOOD_ to BLDG as you than have two different strings of information.

Therefore you can navigate as usual in the civilopedia with (ctrl-C) -and have the problems with the resource overflow as usual or you can navigate from the entry in the techbox on the other information string.

Then you get the new icon for the resource with the new information string.
To eliminate the additional old resource icon connecting to the old info string with the overflow bug, you need 5 (or more) improvements (GW and SW don´t count for that) connected to that tech (where the new resource icon can be one of them) or 5 or more units connected to that tech.

When I have more time I ´ll write more about it.

Better information in the techboxes of the techtrees

Steps to introduce informations about specialists, new forms of agreements, embassies, sea- and ocean-trade, communication-trade, pacts, resources and other stuff directly in the techtree (but first make copies from all files you edit !).

A) Common steps for all additional infos appearing in the techtree:

1. Create an era-none tech
2. Create a special improvement (imp) that only can be built with that era-none tech.
3. Add the new info for the techtree as new improvement in the editor:

a) Do the pediaicon-entry for the new building (like you would do it with a normal imp.)
b) Put the icons (lg and sm) for the new info in the folder civilopedia/icons/buildings
c) Do the civilopedia-entry for this “building” (BLDG_***)

4. Make the “era-none “-improvement (=>step 2) a perequisite for the “info-imp.”
5. Connect the “info-imp” with the proper advance in the editor

B) Additional steps for special civilopedia-graphics still existing but normally not viewing up in the techbox of the techtree (especially resources). In the editor you can´t change the entry for resources from GOOD_ to BLDG_ without a crash of the game. The entry GOOD_ in the editor (not in the civilopedia) seems necessairy, that the game treats the resource as a resource in gameplay.

As you can´t change the entry above for resources in the editor and the computer makes its hardcoded entry on the “GOOD_ level”, you have two strings of information in the civilopedia, if you do the above steps 1 – 5 for creating a “resource-info-imp. Fix:

1. The techbox shows the resource from the “info-imp.
2. When clicking on that techbox, this resource appears twice on the
info-page:
a) In the improvement-column appears the resource icon from
the “info-imp”.
b) In the resource-column appears the hardcoded resource icon

3. Elimination of the hardcoded resource icon:
a) 5 (or more) units given by that advance or 5 (or more) normal
improvements eliminate the hardcoded resource icon from the
advance-info page.
b) Make the info-imp-icon the first if you have more improvements in
the improvement-column of that advance, by typing the space tab
in front of the name of the “info-imp in the editor.

C) The prime advantage with this methode is, that you can see
important additional information in the techboxes of the techtree
when you decide what to research next. The additional advantage
of this methode is, that you avoid the resource-overflow-bug,
when you click in the techbox and than in the (corrected)
resource info as you don´t use the hardcoded resource-page any
longer. Manoeuvring through the civilopedia in the traditional way
(ctrl-C) is still possible, but here the resource-overflow-bug still
exists. Third advantage: The new info-icons are lookin cool. :D


Edited: Step 3d) was deleted after PCHighway posting (#19)

All this seems to be good thinking... :thumbsup: but I´m on holiday so I won´t bother cross reading it.

This is the way I understood it:
1.) You make a dummy "era none" technology.
2.) You make a building that requires the era none technology (Dummy building).
3.) You make a building which is named after the resource you want to add. For instance, you make a building called "Iron."
4.) You then make this building called "Iron" require the Dummy building (which in turn requires the era none tech). This makes sure the building can not be built.
5.) You make the building require whatever technology you want it to appear with.
6.) You then fill out the civilopedia for the "Iron" building as if it was a resource. Because the game engine treats this as a building, the building will show up in the tech tree.

Is that correct?

The advantage, is a more intuitive tech tree. No more wading through various technologies to find out when Tax-men come, or when you can see Wine on the map.

The disadvantages, are that you now have duplicated civilopedia entries, in a way. You have two items called "Iron," which is confusing when looking through the index. Also, you can't simply browse to the resource civpedia page, which most people will do when they want to find out when certain resources arrive. You have to look at the city improvement page if you want to get around the hyperlink error. Finally, as you said, there is a hardcoded limit on the number of buildings you can add. This takes up those slots.

-------

Good work though :goodjob: . I think you did some nice brain-storming here, Civinator, and came up with good way to make the Technology Tree (Science Advisor tab) more visually descriptive :). This technique can be used by modders to help the player take a quick glance at the tech tree, and see when a resource or specialist appears.

However, this doesn't solve the hyperlink problem.
It's hard coded ;).

The "hyperlink limit," which henceforth I will refer to as the "HYP Law," applies to any civilopedia page, be it a City Improvement page, or a resource page. Thus, you can't put links to all the units in the "Dummy Iron Building" without invoking the HYP Law.
d) Connect the civilopedia-links to the new civilopedia-entry (search and paste)
The player still has no way to have links to units that require iron outside of the Civilization Advances civpedia. If you were to add an excessive amount of hyperlinks to a great wonder, you would still invoke the HYP Law.
The issue with the resources, is that it _forces_ the hyperlinks to be placed, as Weasel Op stated above. Thus it's outside of the modder's control, and causes frustration. At least for me, anyway; I want to make any MOD I'm creating have no major errors that could ultimately force less experienced players to restart their computers.

One quick question, did you rename the City Imp column (via the labels/script texts) to "New Options" in this pic? (Blue oval)
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/god_money12/Cityimp_newop.jpg

First: Thank you for the nice words PCHighway,Takhisis, Weasel Op, and BadKharma. :)

And PCHighway, a special thank you for your huge feedback. :) :)

@ PCHighway:

To answer your quick question first: Yes, I renamed the "City Imp column" in the labels text to "New Options" as now a lot of other things than improvements can appear in that column. I didn´t talk about that in the tutorial in my last post, as this renaming is only "cosmetical" and may be there are better names for that "new" column by other posters.

PCHighway, you understood steps 1-6 very well. :)

And now to the most complicated edge, the "HYP Law", as you call it, and as this term is shorter, I will call it so, too:

We all know (including me), that this is a hard coded problem. With the methode I try to explain, you can´t solve that problem, but you can reduce it a little bit. You can create one page that is free from an icon that directly contains the "HYP Law-bug". That´s the side when you click in the techbox, if you did eliminate the hard coded resource icon.

But when you click on one of the unit-icons in the advance-info-page, on the following unit´s info page, you got the old hard coded resource icon again. And if you click on that resource icon you run into the "HYP Law-bug". But if you don´t do it in the way I try to explain, you run into this bug with your second Techbox-click as you than have the "bug-infected" resource icon in your civilopedia advance-page.

PCHighway you are correct with your critic about step 3 d) in my tutorial. So this connection didn´t cause major errors, the connection of the civilopedia-links to the new civilopedia-entry didn´t bring any additional advantage and therefore it is superfluous. I will delete this step in the tutorial. Thanks a lot for pointing this out.:goodjob:

But to create a techtree in the way I described, is not "outside of the modder's control". You still get some additional possibilities and don´t loose anything (but some of the 256 places for improvements). Beside the new possibilities for information in the techtree, you get one - in my eyes important - page that is free from the "HYP Law-bug". If you get the info about the resource on the advance page "bug-free", the chance, that you klick on that resource on the next page (the unit page) that contains the "bug-infected" icon is smaller (but not eliminated). At least I run into that bug most times in new mods or scenarios when I open the techbox, see a new resource and -bounce- I have that bug, as this resource is needed for a lot of units and I can´t quit that game normally in most cases after the bug-message. Now I can click on that resource and know where to find it without that bug.

Additionally manoeuvring through the civilopedia in the traditional way (ctrl-C) is still possible, but here the "HYP Law-bug" still exists and the only advantage with the enhanced techtree is the additional information in the techtree about the appearance of that resource.

Please note, that in the headline of this thread I asked, if there is a remedy against that bug, as my original intention was to write something about enhanced techtrees and I hoped that I don´t have to cover the "HYP Law"-problem too. So now I say: There is no poison to kill that nasty bug, but a small remedy, to bring that ugly bug outside of one of your rooms :D . But may be, we get some additional ideas in this thread. :)

And PCHighway, a special thank you for your huge feedback. :) :) I hope I didn't sound unappreciative of this tip, because that is certainly not the case. I definitely feel that adding "dummy buildings" as resources, citizens, and governments will add a lot of flavor to the Science Advisor screen. I, and LotM in general, would most likely use this tip for the citizen and government factor. Let me demonstrate how I would find your idea most useful:

In LotM, a MOD based off of LotR, we have various races. We were appalled at the concept that turning your "Orc" citizen into an entertainer would magically transform the Orc into a "jester" type head, obviously modeled after a human (and no green skin!). Thus, for each of the main 5 races, we designed custom entertainers, tax-men, researchers, policemen, and constructors.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/god_money12/citizen_hyplaw2.jpg

In order to make this work, each of the heads needs to appear with a civ-specific technology. Thus, after you researched the "Alphabet," for instance, a new civ-specific technology would become available for you that gave a research oriented specialist. One of the biggest issues the beta-testers had with the civ-specific technologies is that they didn't know which each one gave. "Does Lore Mastery give the first Elven-specific government or a specialist?" -- that kind of thing. In order to find out, they would have to enter the civpedia. With your idea, we could make it so that is a non-issue.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/god_money12/civpedia_hyplaw.jpg

Thus, when I looked at your idea, I saw it for it's usefulness with citizen heads rather than resources. To be honest, I just accept the HYP Law as something that will always exist. In LotM, we have 3 different resources that come throughout the various eras (copper, iron, charcoal [for steel refinement]). One of the reasons we did this, was to try and avoid the HYP Law, the other reason we did this is we didn't want your units for 4 eras to rely on whether you had easy access to iron. To answer your quick question first: Yes, I renamed the "City Imp column" in the labels text to "New Options" as now a lot of other things than improvements can appear in that column. I didn´t talk about that in the tutorial in my last post, as this renaming is only "cosmetical" and may be there are better names for that "new" column by other posters. It makes perfect sense; indeed I'd recommend that anyone who planned on releasing a MOD to public try and think of a descriptive title they could put there, such as your "New Options" label :).
We all know (including me), that this is a hard coded problem. With the methode I try to explain, you can´t solve that problem, but you can reduce it a little bit. You can create one page that is free from an icon that directly contains the "HYP Law-bug". That´s the side when you click in the techbox, if you did eliminate the hard coded resource icon. Oi, I understand. But, it's important to realize that not everyone knows the HYP Law can and will appear on any civilopedia screen that has too many hyperlinks. It isn't necessarily limited to just resources.

I would recommend that you consolidate your tutorial (just copy and paste) and post it in the tutorial section. I know when I have a question, that's the first place I look. You could title it as a get-around to the HYP Law, or you could title it as a way to create a more visually descriptive Science Advisor screen that has many bonuses to it, as both apply.
But when you click on one of the unit-icons in the advance-info-page, on the following unit´s info page, you got the old hard coded resource icon again. And if you click on that resource icon you run into the "HYP Law-bug". But if you don´t do it in the way I try to explain, you run into this bug with your second Techbox-click as you than have the "bug-infected" resource icon in your civilopedia advance-page. Right. The tip you give encourages people to navigate mainly through the Civilization Advances tab in the civpedia, which is a fine tip. From there you can see all the units that require iron, with accompanying pics and links to that unit.
PCHighway you are correct with your critic about step 3 d) in my tutorial. So this connection didn´t cause major errors, the connection of the civilopedia-links to the new civilopedia-entry didn´t bring any additional advantage and therefore it is superfluous. I will delete this step in the tutorial. Thanks a lot for pointing this out.:goodjob: I think it's a wise decision. It was what I found the most confusing when following the tutorial :). At least I run into that bug most times in new mods or scenarios when I open the techbox, see a new resource and -bounce- I have that bug, as this resource is needed for a lot of units and I can´t quit that game normally in most cases after the bug-message. Now I can click on that resource and know where to find it without that bug. Indeed, what I do in most mods is position my mouse cursor over the "OK" button, and hold down the enter key until it stops.
Additionally manoeuvring through the civilopedia in the traditional way (ctrl-C) is still possible, but here the "HYP Law-bug" still exists and the only advantage with the enhanced techtree is the additional information in the techtree about the appearance of that resource. Yep, your tutorial adds a route you can take around the bug. It's a nice perk; instead of having to follow a route that would lead to an annoyance, you can take a safer route. It might be worthwhile to add a game concept (GCON_) explaining the addition of these new civpedia entries, that way a new user would know what they are there for, and if they were smart they would then know how to avoid clicking on the entries that cause errors.
Please note, that in the headline of this thread I asked, if there is a remedy against that bug, as my original intention was to write something about enhanced techtrees and I hoped that I don´t have to cover the "HYP Law"-problem too. So now I say: There is no poison to kill that nasty bug, but a small remedy, to bring that ugly bug outside of one of your rooms :D . But may be, we get some additional ideas in this thread. :) Indeed, what I like most about modding, to be honest, is theorizing new concepts and seeing if they can be put into play. I probably enjoy that more than the actual implementation and playing the game, sadly! ;)

Hi PCHighway,

thanks again for your large reply. :)

I hope I didn't sound unappreciative of this tip

No, you never did sound so. That´s why in my last post I said "thank you for your kind words":)

Thus, when I looked at your idea, I saw it for it's usefulness with citizen heads rather than resources.

Yes, I created the "enhanced techtree" mainly for additional infos about citizen (specialists), new possibilities like crossing the sea or the ocean, new agreements like map-trading or communication-trading, short: new options with no still existing special icon in the game.

Secondary was the information about new options that already have a special icon in the game but don´t appear in the techbox (like resources and governements). Here you need the special technics ("more than 4 in a row") to eleminate the hardcoded existing icon.

The new possibilities against the "HYP Law-bug" are only a side-effect of the idea about this new way to do techtrees. But I started the thread about this new idea with that, as it is the most complicated "edge" of the "enhanced techtrees". :)

I would recommend that you consolidate your tutorial (just copy and paste) and post it in the tutorial section.

PCHighway, once again you are right and I will do so. But I make a link to this thread, so that everybody can see who helped here. :)


Indeed, what I like most about modding, to be honest, is theorizing new concepts and seeing if they can be put into play. I probably enjoy that more than the actual implementation and playing the game, sadly! ;)

Yes, I think, I completely understand this. :D :D I´m doing a rework of the epic game in C3C, working-title "Civ 3 Revisited". It focuses on a lot of new game-concepts for C3C (not in adding lots of units). Indeed the idea about the "enhanced techtrees" is one of the medium concepts of that mod. Some small concepts are posted "here and there" in the forums (like passes in the mountains, new way to handle the sacrifice flag) and a lot of them are not posted yet (especially a very big new concept for maps). The first words for this mod are: "The epilog for Civ 4 is the start of Civ 3 Revisited" :D

PCHighway, it is a great honour for me, if parts of the "enhanced techtree" can be a part in such a prominent mod like "LotM". :D You can be sure, from now on I have an eye on this mod :borg: (so I can´t help now, as nearly most of my civ-time at present is consumed by adding thousands of units to the SOE-map).

I get it now, btw ;) That's a great "hack".